Has Hendry issued an ultimatum
by tharr on Jun 1, 2010 6:30 AM CDT
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While I don't claim to have any insider information, I'd like to present some reasons why I believe Lou has been told it's time to fish or cut bait. Henry's presence on the road trip, while not significant would be exactly what would occur if he were thinking of making a managerial change. Of particular interest were his comments about the team's record. Basically he said we need to get to .500 soon, hopefully by the end of this road trip. He also said we'd be expected to play better over the next two weeks.
Now Jim seldom sets deadlines. As a courtesy to Lou, he seems to be saying he has 1-2 weeks to get this club headed in the right direction. That is the model of a GM issuing a deadline. Add to that Lou's semi-coherent post game conference. He appeared to be more than usually flustered by the play of the team and have no answers to what he can do to improve the performance.
Now look at the Castro scenario. On 4/29, Hendry indicated Starlin wasn't ready for Wrigley. One week later Castro was called up in what seemed to be a desperate attempt to turn things around. Yesterday we saw Cashner brought to Chicago. Despite his seasoning as a starter, he was suddenly moved to late inning relief from the right side. Wednesday Zambrano wii again start after an ineffective stint as set up man. By the way, is it any coincidence that Z was suddenly lights out in relief after his poor performances before he was assured he was headed back to the rotation?
Those events by themselves are insignificant. Cumulatively they seem to me to point towards a do or die option for Lou. Certainly the players also seem to believe Piniella is on deathwatch. Neither Lee or Ramirez or Dempster have stood up in strong support of Lou and taking their share of blame. So, has Jim Hendry hung the sword of Damocles over Lou's head or am I merely wishing the signs portray what I seek.
This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of SB Nation or Al Yellon, managing editor (unless it's a FanPost posted by Al). FanPost opinions are valued expressions of opinion by passionate and knowledgeable baseball fans.
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You're right about that postgame press conference.
That was … bizarre. The manager is supposed to have answers, or at least pretend he does, not keep saying over and over, “I don’t know”. He’s being paid to know.
It’s not too late for a change.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
And if it is
it’s not too early to get a head start on 2011.
If a quality pitching start is 3 runs and 6 innings, then a quality hitting day is 1 for 4.
Mr. Hendry: Tear Down This Wall!
http://chicago.comcastsportsnet.com/pages/cubs
The most compassionate thing Hendry can do right now is reach agreement with Lou to step down…
The video (link above) was painful to watch and as a human being, I truly feel sorry for the position the team has put him in. You can rail all you want and say Lou should have done this or done that, but he’s doing what he knows how to do. "What he knows" is what the Cubs hired in 2007- but it no longer works. This situation isn’t unique to baseball. Managers run out of answers and when they do, then they are replaced.
So Mr. Hendry- if you (as you say) really like Lou Piniella and respect him, stop putting him (and us) through this.
We have met the enemy and they are us! ~ Walt Kelly, Pogo, 1971
by Zeke on Jun 1, 2010 8:37 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
That video is really sad.
Lou looks defeated. He really should just go home.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
very very sad
It was painful to watch
they’ll make you laugh (at them), they’ll make you cry (tears of desperation)
Lou's not a quitter. This one's up to Jim Hendry. HE needs to make the move.
We have met the enemy and they are us! ~ Walt Kelly, Pogo, 1971
Agreed, but...
… in that video, Lou sure looks like he’s given up.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
I think he's just bewildered, flabbergasted, bum-fuzzled,...you name it.
He’s tried what he know how to do and can’t figure out why what he’s done in the past won’t work now…
We have met the enemy and they are us! ~ Walt Kelly, Pogo, 1971
Right.
When you’re a manager and that happen to you… time to go.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
Agreed. It really would be the best for all concerned at this point.
We have met the enemy and they are us! ~ Walt Kelly, Pogo, 1971
I think we need to separate
Lou’s decisions on the field – many of which look increasingly suspect – and his comments and demeanor in post-game news conferences. Defeated? Maybe. But c’mon, let’s not pretend there are easy answers to his predicament. Your top two hitters are not hitting, and even other hitters who are hitting aren’t doing it with men on base. What exactly is the recipe for getting players to record hits with RISP? Yes, he could move Ramirez down in the lineup and I’m not opposed to that, play Colvin more for sure, but frankly the offense has just been absolutely nuts in terms of what is going on. The Cubs BA in innings 7+ is basically identical to their BA innings 1-6. They are just not hitting with men on base, not sure what magical answer people are looking for with regards to that real and overwhelmingly dominant problem the team is facing.
by BeltwayCubsFan on Jun 1, 2010 2:37 PM CDT up reply actions
IIRC wasn't there a vote of confidence a few weeks back
When that was offered I posted that Lou had until next week to have the ship in place, over .500 and contending.
He had a good direction after a good road trip and on target of getting the club at the .500 mark until the offense against StL fell off again, now Pitts,
Monday, maybe Tuesday things might happen….and with it is DLee being shipped, fire sale to Angels….Cubs get consideration and either Colvin or Soriano plays 1B.
Ramirez is another story altogether but he might not be playing.
Piniella: "This is a tougher job than I thought it would be, I'm going to be honest with you."
Lou has not tried everything...
Castro in the 2 hole was working for awhile, try that again..Try Byrd leading off against lefties..i agree its time for Lou to go, it seems like his “I dont know what to do” act is getting pretty old, Fire Lou bring up Ryno see what he can do with this team for the rest of the year and figure out where to go in the future this offseason.
"God watches over drunks and third baseman."- Leo Durocher
by BelieveinBlue2314 on Jun 1, 2010 3:24 PM CDT up reply actions
If he's tried everything he knows how to do, then he absolutely needs to go
I love the fact that when asked what he’s going to do with Lee and Ramirez, his response is “I’m going to give Derek a day off tomorrow.” not, I’m going to move them both down, or anything along those lines. He’ll give Derek a day off, and ARAM will still be sitting there in the middle of the order.
MORON
I guess I'm just a worrier, that's why my friends call me whiskers
That is just strange
First he says he doesn’t know what to do, then when someone asks about moving DLee and/or ARam out of the middle of the lineup he says that’s an option, there are plenty of options.
WTF Lou – try out some options. It doesn’t take an effin genius to get your best hitters into spots where they can drive some runners in.
His attitude is worse than the end of last year. Defeated. As a manager of people, baseball or not, you have to LEAD. These bewildered, confused, defeatist rambles in front of the press are not going to inspire anyone to do anything.
"There are no curses here...Games are won and lost on the baseball field" - Lou Piniella
by El Borto on Jun 1, 2010 9:05 AM CDT up reply actions 2 recs
As a manager of people, baseball or not, you have to LEAD. These bewildered, confused, defeatist rambles in front of the press are not going to inspire anyone to do anything.
Exactly.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al Yellon on Jun 1, 2010 9:24 AM CDT up reply actions 2 recs
100% correct
You have to stand on top of the trench and yell, “follow me!”
Not sit in the bunker going, “Well I don’t know why our guys are getting killed.”
"Manny Trillo is coming in to pinch run. You know, for a lot of teams, you would pinch run for Manny Trillo." - Harry Caray
Lou should start watching Friday Night Lights
Coach Taylor can teach him a thing or two
they’ll make you laugh (at them), they’ll make you cry (tears of desperation)
The charge to the Cubs manager has changed
Hriing Lou was a “win now” move (whether or not you agree with his moves as manager). Lou has never been a player development manager, as emphasized by his struggles in Tampa. The present roster looks like they can’t win now, and Lou just is not well suited for the restructuring that has to come.
by ClarkFan on Jun 1, 2010 11:19 AM CDT up reply actions 6 recs
this to me says it all....really it's a simple and logical reason and should be green because of that IMHO
"Well-behaved women seldom make History"---Laurel Thatcher Ulrich
by cooliogirl47 on Jun 1, 2010 11:31 AM CDT up reply actions
to play off your title
General Manager Hendry, if you seek wins, if you seek attendance for the the Chicago Cubs and Wrigley Field, if you seek Cubbie World Series Rings, come here to this contract. Mr. Hendry, open this position. Mr. Hendry, tear up this contract!
Sipping the Kool-Aid since 1982 - Kinda
Currently 34,839 on the Season Ticket Wait List - Expected age of being #0: 119
No, it was worse than that.
As I posted, he kept saying “I don’t know” over and over. It was truly bizarre.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
I don't know either!
I watch as many games as I can, read as much about the Cubs as I can and I don’t have a clue either why they go into these hitting funks and why one of the top hitters in the NL (Aram) can’t hit his hat. It doesn’t make any sense.
It’s June 1 and if you’re not hitting by now you deserve to sit until you do. This has gone on long enough. Colvin needs to play and maybe 15 days on the DL would help Aram. Recall Tracy, he’s still hitting over .460 at Iowa. Let Fontenot get more starts at 2nd. Rest DLee a few days. Skip a start for Dempster or give him a couple extra days. I’ve waited long enough and so has Lou. I don’t have any answers but it’s time to play those who are hitting and hungry.
No, I don’t believe there is an ultimatum from Hendry to Lou either.
This is only the beginning....Lou Pinella end of '07 season and Chicago Transit Authority (the band when they were really good).
see, you have a plan, why cant Lou think like that, why does he seem clueless,
is he not allowed to take drastic measures? are his hands tied by Hendry or Ricketts?
"Well-behaved women seldom make History"---Laurel Thatcher Ulrich
by cooliogirl47 on Jun 1, 2010 12:01 PM CDT up reply actions
It seems to me
that Lou functions well as a maintenance engineer. However, now he is expected to be proactive and solve problems. Thinking outside the box is not his strong suit. Effectively the job skills needed for this Cub team are noth what they were when he was hired.
If a quality pitching start is 3 runs and 6 innings, then a quality hitting day is 1 for 4.
by tharr on Jun 1, 2010 12:25 PM CDT up reply actions 4 recs
Isn't this standard Lou protocol buy now?
I mean seriously – the dude has been doing it since year one. If they win, he tries to remember who hit what in which inning. If they lose he just mumbles and either says he will shift stuff up, or doesn’t know what to do, depending on how much of the season is gone by.
I think Lou is frustrated and tired. Frustrated with himself and the team and just plain tired of the grind. I think he’s found himself in a situation he wasn’t expecting and doesn’t really know how to get out of it with his pride being to strong to step away without the job being finished.
They gone have to stop sleeping on me one day.. I gotta be one of the best
About 3 hours ago by Eric Wright Cleveland Browns – Cornerback
I understand, as a big daddy come and take my spot type of demeanor?
by mooncamping on May 14, 2010 7:24 AM EDT
You could be right...
…and I think he is also frustrated with Jim Hendry.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
Back in time
If you see Hendry’s comments you’d realize that this organization has gone back in time: we are talking about reaching .500 again. That’s almost all I ever heard when I watched the Cubs in the 90’s.
Hendry knows he has to produce. If the Cubs don’t win, he will fire Lou, and probably it will be soon. I don’t care either way. This team is not built to win, and I am just tired of the loser mentality: this group will always find new ways to lose a game. In the end, Hendry will go too. Like I said earlier in the year, better to lose now, trade some players at the deadline, and start a new project. The only problem is that some of tradeable guys, like Lee, are not producing anything…
Anyway, the writing is on the wall for a lot of people in this organization. Only a very unlikely miracle can prevent the inevitable.
by Luis on Jun 1, 2010 7:12 AM CDT reply actions 1 recs
I recall those days too
The mission for those teams was to “be competitive”. Of course. that equates with a 3rd place finish and a .500 club. Not acceptable. The best teams have a sense of urgency each game. The Hawks are a perfect example of an organization and players that never will accept mediocrity.
If a quality pitching start is 3 runs and 6 innings, then a quality hitting day is 1 for 4.
+1 for that sword thingy reference...
We need more of that around here. Feels like we’ve been pushing this big boulder up a hill all season long and just when we almost get to the top, it just rolls back down to the bottom. I sure wish Lou had a few golden apples that he could toss out onto the field every now and then to distract certain players (PujolsJonesMcCutchen). Anything would be better than cleaning out the mess we’ve got in these stables, errr, I mean dugout.
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
Classically brilliant.
Particularly the third reference about the Cubs dugout being currently as full of crap as the Stables of Augeas.
I think Hendry is also feeling the heat. If Lou does not get it together, I can see JH getting the boot as well by the end of the season.
How long will the Ricketts honeymoon go on?
Well by now Ricketts
has to be wondering how much he can expect to lose . The tourist season may help fill some seats at Wrigley . But the fan base is going to think twice about it . Either way Ricketts knows something has to be done .
If Lou gets let go
Expect interview after interview from players stating “This wasn’t Lou’s fault”, “You can’t blame the manager for our lack of hits”, etc. Yet I almost guarantee the team will play better baseball and score more runs.
I would not be so sure about that
I am sure the players may say something a bit like that but Lou is not exactly a beloved manager and I suspect most of them will be happy to see him go when he goes.
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either Jim
by Doggie Stalker on Jun 1, 2010 10:25 AM CDT up reply actions
I am talking about after Lou is gone.....The moves Sandberg will make should be pretty obvious...
Platoon theriot and move ARam…….and so forth.
Lou is managing like he wants to get fired.
What can Lou do
to get Lee or Ramirez to make contact when it counts? I agree that Lou’s post game blathering is annoying and worthless, but I don’t see how firing him, or Hendry makes a bit of difference if the core of the line up continues to suck. Line up changes may help, but the root of the offensive meltdown this year falls directly on Lee and Ramirez.
"Chicago Cubs fans are ninety percent scar tissue." - George F. Will
by Slakkr on Jun 1, 2010 8:31 AM CDT reply actions 1 recs
This.
Lou frustrates the hell out of me at times, but what can he do? Does anyone really think that Chad Tracy and Fontenot are going to carry this team up and over .500 and into the playoffs? The failure of our “superstar” players in Lee and Ramirez are the reason for our disappointing season. Any team that gets minimal production out of their 3-4 hitters is usually destined to fail.
Someday we'll go all the way...
by CubsBullsBears on Jun 1, 2010 9:31 AM CDT up reply actions
Right, but...
… continuing to send them out there when they are failing and doing NOTHING is just as bad.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
I don't mind him starting Lee every game
His defense brings more to the table than a lot of other people’s hitting. Not to mention, his average is slowly crawling up. Ramirez, however, is ridiculous. He’s hitting like 140.
"That pitch wasn’t down and in, that pitch was down and up." Tim McCarver
by wrigleyrocker12 on Jun 1, 2010 10:36 AM CDT up reply actions
Exactly...
Lee should be 5th or 6th and Ramirez 7th; I don’t care if feelings get hurt.
Someday we'll go all the way...
by CubsBullsBears on Jun 1, 2010 10:51 AM CDT up reply actions
Either Ramirez needs glasses or...
he’s done. I hate to say it, but plenty of players have just broken down for no good reason in their early thirties. Whether he just doesn’t have the bat speed anymore or his sight has taken a big hit doesn’t really matter. Neither answer is particularly pleasing, but at least sight can be corrected. Given the fact that he can still field his position and it’s June, I’m not inclined to believe it’s a sight issue. Ladies and gentlemen, I think it’s time to start considering we’re seeing the end of a career here.
Derrek Lee is hitting .233 now. He was a slow starter last season too, but at least he’s picking it up a bit. It’s the final year of his contract and I’m left wondering if he’s not far off from being done either. I’m not inclined to believe that just yet, but Lee’s time as a Cub is coming to a close. Whether they have to get him to waive his NTC before the season is up or they just cut ties with him after the 2010 season, we’re seeing the last of Derrek Lee in a Cubs uniform.
RIP Ronnie James Dio (July 10, 1942 - May 16, 2010).
I hate to say it, but plenty of players have just broken down for no good reason in their early thirties.
Go look at Dale Murphy’s career for an example of someone who did exactly this when he was almost precisely the age Ramirez is now.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
Exactly my point
It’s unfortunate, but it happens. Not everyone can retain their skills into their 30’s. Look at Ralph Kiner, who was out of the league before his 33rd birthday. Al Rosen is another guy who had the same problem. He won an MVP at age 29 with a remarkable season and then went into decline after age 30.
RIP Ronnie James Dio (July 10, 1942 - May 16, 2010).
Kiner had serious injury (back) problems.
Don’t know about Rosen. Ramirez doesn’t seem to have those issues.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
I still don't think that Ramirez has "broken down"
But it seems likely he is hurt. Thumb, shoulder, something seems to be wrong. And the Cubs owe him at least $16M for playing in 2011. Getting Ramirez some treatment or medical help now (or a decent set of spectacles) is at least as much about next year as this year.
I agree, but
it is Piniella’s responsibility to move them down the order or sit them, which he’s seldom done.
I am one of the few who thinks Piniella will last the year and that he shouldn’t be fired, but he is massively responsible for the downright bizarre lineups and substitutions this year.
No,
I’m still with you on Piniella, Chilango. But this is some crazy behavior, to be sure.
by Damen Jackson on Jun 1, 2010 10:01 AM CDT up reply actions
Move them down the lineup
I think that Lee and Ramirez are the best options that the Cubs have for 1b and 3b for this season. That does not mean that they should be hitting in the heart of the lineup every day when the team is struggling.
They have to move down. That is the central issue here. Not Zambrano to the bull pen and not Theriot to the bench.
Oh, and maybe it’s time to get Colvin a few starts.
by jerry morales rules on Jun 1, 2010 9:37 AM CDT up reply actions
Ramirez more than Lee
Lee’s stats are a bit better, for one. He’s also a far superior defender who is necessary at first with the likes of Theriot and Fontenot in the infield.
Moreover, we’ve seen Lee start slow before and do OK. We’re seeing things out of Aramis that we’ve never seen and I hope to God never see again.
There is no such thing as an ugly female breast
What can he do?
Maybe not have Ramirez continue to bat cleanup, which was an inexcusable decision from yesterday’s game.
During the game the
look on Lou’s face was very differant . ( Almost like why am I here ) . I never remember seeing that before . I did not see the post game but heard it was brutal again . The club keeps making mistake after mistake . If Lou is really out of ideas it is time to move on .
This is so sad,
and yet so hysterical at the same time.
It just seems like yet another manager managing to his preferences, and not the skillset of the constructed team. What really bites is that he’s playing the all-or-nothing angle, feeling that he needs to have performance from these guys in these specific situations in order to be able to contend. It’s Ramirez in the middle of the lineup banging out RBIs, or bust, for example. Yet, in my opinion at least, he needs to be thinking about how to go out and win the ballgame today. And then the one tomorrow. And then after that.
Need to move a guy down in the lineup? Do it. Take the bat of a guy’s hands in a close ballgame? Done. Put the team in motion? Let’s go.
Shame on Hendry for dropping this turd of a team on him to manage, but to say that there’s nothing that he can do, or that he doesn’t know is simply unacceptable. The team was never going to be good, but this level of play is just nuts.
by Damen Jackson on Jun 1, 2010 9:59 AM CDT reply actions 7 recs
I always respect your opinion Damen
I do disagree with a turd of a team. This team is not a team that should be 1-6 against the Pirates this year, go 2-5 against the Mets/Nats, and lose two out of three to the freaking Astro’s/ This team has talent to at least contend for the wildcard. I can’t believe that this team is that far behind the Reds, I don’t accept that.
The Nats are a fairly decent team this year.
Losing two of three to them is no shame.
And the Astros? Tell that to the Cardinals, who got swept by Houston — in St. Louis.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
I like the Nationals
a great deal, and I think you and I talked about that prior to the start of the season. But no, if you’re hanging yourself out there as a contender, the Nationals should not roll into your town, and take two out of three.
by Damen Jackson on Jun 1, 2010 10:30 AM CDT up reply actions
Really?
First, the three games were all low-scoring games, two one-run, and one in extra innings. Hardly a dominant series, and one that could have easily been won by the Cubs.
Second, the Nats have already won series this year from the Dodgers, Marlins and Braves, all “hanging themselves out there as contenders”. Granted, all three of those were in Washington.
Third, I could change your quote around to read:
But no, if you’re hanging yourself out there as a contender, the Astros should not roll into your town and sweep you.
So I guess the Cardinals shouldn’t be hanging themselves out there as contenders.
Bottom line: the Nats are pretty good this year and MIGHT even be contenders. Losing two of three to them isn’t nearly the bad news it was a year ago.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
You could have stopped
right after the comment about winning those other series in Washington. ’Nuff said.
And you needn’t debate me on the merits of the Nationals. I’ve believed since the beginning of the Spring Training that they would at least be over .500 this season. At least. Yes, I know they’re a very good team. But if you’re a serious contender, they’re not beating you two of three at home.
by Damen Jackson on Jun 1, 2010 10:48 AM CDT up reply actions
You didn't respond to my other point, which is....
… if the Cardinals are so good, why did the Astros — who are an awful team, much worse than the Nats — sweep them in St. Louis?
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
It's called an anamoly, Al.
You lose a series like that at home once, you get a pass. You lose a string of series to .500 teams or worse, you’ve got real problems.
by Damen Jackson on Jun 1, 2010 10:51 AM CDT up reply actions
See below.
Yes, they have lost a string of series to .500 teams or worse — and WON series against good teams.
How do you explain that?
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
Because it doesn't fit into his hypothesis
that the Cubs are awful and always will be awful and are simply destined to be awful. I think that’s it.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jun 1, 2010 11:04 AM CDT up reply actions
Then you would be wrong
in addition to snide and sarcastic.
by Damen Jackson on Jun 1, 2010 11:05 AM CDT up reply actions
I don't think so, Damen
Your hypocrisy is pretty obvious to anybody with a pair of eyes.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jun 1, 2010 11:06 AM CDT up reply actions
Well,
call me Cyclops then. Please do elaborate.
by Damen Jackson on Jun 1, 2010 11:07 AM CDT up reply actions
Well,
I think NBF is a real smart guy, to be sure. And I mean that in all seriousness. But hypocrisy suggests contradiction, and I think I’ve been anything but contradictory on the 2010 Cubs, to date.
by Damen Jackson on Jun 1, 2010 11:34 AM CDT up reply actions
Wrong.
I don’t completely disagree with him. I wouldn’t use the Nats as an example because any team can win any given day. The Nats happened to catch us while we were struggling and they took the series.
But the Pirates??!! CMON MAN! 1-7 is no fluke. You cannot expect to win a division by losing 6-7 to the Pirates. I don’t care if they slightly improved from aweful last year.
United we stand and united we'll fall......down on our knees the day we win it all!
by Bricks and Ivy on Jun 1, 2010 11:57 AM CDT up reply actions
and just because people disagree with
you doesn’t make them hypocrits.
United we stand and united we'll fall......down on our knees the day we win it all!
by Bricks and Ivy on Jun 1, 2010 11:59 AM CDT up reply actions
You're going to win some series here and there
In many sports, you see teams beating teams they shouldn’t beat and losing to teams they should beat. The latter is not a good sign if this is a more consistent occurrence than taking series against good teams. A good team may drop a series to another good team, but they will usually bounce back against a weaker team.
What I’ve seen through the first two months of the season is hardly encouraging about this team’s ability to score runs as it’s currently constructed. I’ve been extremely critical of Lou Piniella of years and his refusal to move Aramis Ramirez and Derrek Lee down in the batting order is yet another in a long line of criticism.
It still does not change the fact that we were hoping Aramis Ramirez could continue to be this team’s MVP like he has been for years. Instead, Ramirez is hitting .162 and he’s only hit four home runs so far this season. He’s a player that should be platooning right now. He’s been given two months to figure it out and he’s shown he can’t do it.
Derrek Lee is a slow starter and while his defense at first base is valuable, he isn’t hitting like a number three hitter should be expected to hit. Lee is working his way through it and figuring it out, but he should still be moved down further in the order.
What can Lou do? None of the answers have been good. He will try something for one day and goes back to his previous way of thinking the next. I can’t explain it any other way. Yes. Lou has to go. Will it solve this team’s problems? There’s no way to know. What we do know is that this current path is not working. So what do we do?
Do we throw up our hands and call it a rebuilding year? I hate to admit this to myself, but I’m leaning towards this line of thought now. Our big problem may be managerial, but what if it isn’t? Aramis Ramirez looks completely lost at the plate and this isn’t something a new manager could change. Jaramillo and Piniella know a lot about hitting. If he still can’t get it in two months from either of them, is he going to get it from the new guy? Maybe NBF is right about this whole managerial thing.
RIP Ronnie James Dio (July 10, 1942 - May 16, 2010).
Great pitching
from the rotation.
If a quality pitching start is 3 runs and 6 innings, then a quality hitting day is 1 for 4.
It's BASEBALL
You never know what will happen, everyone goes through good and bad stretches. Why do the Rays play better on the road? Nobody knows. But because they don’t play as good at home, does that mean they’re bad? Not at all.
"That pitch wasn’t down and in, that pitch was down and up." Tim McCarver
by wrigleyrocker12 on Jun 1, 2010 11:43 AM CDT up reply actions
Because...
…thats baseball.
Let’s see what happens after 162, and then you will know who played best over the course of the entire season.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
I think the Yankees last year got beaten by the Orioles
It happens. I’m not going to argue that the loss to the Nats shouldn’t have happened. Nats are a decent team.
And from time to time, certain bottom-feeding teams have the Kryptonite and consistently match up well.
But the Pirates AND Astros? And some of the losses we’ve had?
You’re going to win a third and lose a third and you have to settle the other third.
Those losses to the Pirates and Astros strike me as some we should have settled in a better way.
There is no such thing as an ugly female breast
The Cubs have played one series against the Astros
and went 1-2. As Al pointed out above, the Cardinals went 0-3 against them.
The record against the Pirates, however, is baffling.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jun 1, 2010 11:24 AM CDT up reply actions
I throw Cards/Astros into the
Yankees/Orioles; Red Sox/Rays (when the Rays sucked) and even Cubs/Marlins (no matter how bad it gets in Miami, they always seem to do well)
I’ll even throw the Cubs/Pirates FIRST series there.
But now it’s just idiotic.
There is no such thing as an ugly female breast
It will all work out....
So the Cubs have issues with the Pirates, Astros, Nats, Reds, Mets, Braves, Cardinals, and the Marlins……
So what! We can beat the Brewers, Dodgers, and the Rockies and Texas.
At the end when we are hoisting the championship banner, what will it matter who we beat?
With the team JH has built and the skillful way Lou is managing everything will work out OK!
Nobody can stand up to our fearsome 3-4-5 hitters! Big Z is coming back tomorrow with a well earned return trip to the rotation!
Our team is going on a massive winning streak starting today!
Did you leave?
(This story was produced by BCPDnewservice. Our motto: If you don’t like this story then suck it!)
by BrewCrew'sPrinceofDarkness on Jun 1, 2010 1:33 PM CDT up reply actions
I said "not as much"
which, to this point, is accurate.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jun 1, 2010 3:02 PM CDT up reply actions
I disagree only because anything can happen in one series.
So the Nat’s series as an isolated item doesn’t mean much.
But I completely agree that the PATTERN suggests the Cubs are not a contender.
Losing 2/3 to the Nats doesn’t mean much… until…
You lose 2/3 to the Astros, 3/4 to the Mets, 6/7 to the Pirates, & 2/3 to the Marlins.
Let's take all of those together.
So against the Nats, Pirates, Mets, Astros and Marlins, the Cubs are 5-15.
That makes them 19-13 against the rest of the teams they have faced, which include: Rangers, Phillies, Rockies, Dodgers, Cardinals.
Does that make any sense to you?
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
Nope
and I don’t think at this point that it has to. Those records usually tend to even out a bit over the course of a season.
by Damen Jackson on Jun 1, 2010 10:58 AM CDT up reply actions
And 5-1 of those are against the Brewers
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Jun 1, 2010 11:26 AM CDT up reply actions
Forgive me if I'm wrong here, SB,
but it seems like you’re implying the 5-1 record the Cubs have against the Brewers is irrelevant. If that’s he case, then their 1-6 record against the Pirates is irrelevant, too.
This is what I mean when I say Damen is being hypocritical here (and perhaps “hypocrisy” isn’t the best word, but it’s the first one that came into my head). Selective use of statistics is a bad thing, although everybody does it.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jun 1, 2010 12:06 PM CDT up reply actions
I remember about 1 month ago
People got into a fight in a game thread because someone was discrediting the Cubs with their wins against the Brewers, and saying that they’re REALLY bad because half of one third of their wins were against them. So, the Rays are only an above average team, because we don’t count road games. It’s silly. Don’t do it.
"That pitch wasn’t down and in, that pitch was down and up." Tim McCarver
by wrigleyrocker12 on Jun 1, 2010 12:26 PM CDT up reply actions
Not what I'm saying at all
19-13 against the “rest” of the teams implies that the rest of the clubs comprise a subset of clubs more talented than the group that the Cubs are 5-15 against.
I’d say the Brewers belong in the first group – making the Cubs 10-16 against them and 14-12 against the rest. In other words, after 52 games, they look mediocre.
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Jun 1, 2010 1:21 PM CDT up reply actions
That still doesn't make sense.
Bad against bad teams, good against good teams?
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
It doesn't make a lot of sense, I agree
But one thing that it implies is that they play to the level of their competition.
I’m not ready to ignore the team and not watch any baseball this summer. There’s simply too much of the season left. However, on Opening Day, I expected mediocrity, and with the little run in late May, that’s where they are at right now.
What I was getting at in the opposition discussion was that at some point, after playing a mix of teams, the record starts to become a reaslistic indicator of what the team is.
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Jun 1, 2010 2:19 PM CDT up reply actions
And if that pattern continues...
(i.e., good against the good teams and bad against the bad) then the Cubs will be well out of the race after June.
I agree
as I mentioned about this level of play being disappointing, regardless of the level of talent that I think Piniella got to (mis)manage. And I was as high as any reasonable person could be prior to the start of the season, projecting the Cubs out to 85 wins, and a third-place finish behind the Cardinals and Reds.
That said, this team had entirely too many talent deficits to be considered a contender by virtually any measure or metric. Even 85 wins wouldn’t be enough to seriously contend for a wildcard. And as far as how far they are behind the Reds, I’d say far enough. It’s a very good level of young talent down there, and I don’t think that their start is a fluke.
But in the end, we agree. This team should be lurking around .500, and not getting rolled by the likes of the Pirates and Astros.
by Damen Jackson on Jun 1, 2010 10:27 AM CDT up reply actions
Disappointment
without question. I still don’t believe the Reds talent is better than the Cubs. I like Votto, Bruce, Phillips and Gomes is a good solid role player. Cubs match there talent, however our talent is not getting it done. How much blame Lou gets is up for argument, but without question this team is underperforming and it is maddning.
I don’t expect 94 wins, but to lose to the teams that they have lost to is unaceptable. I know the Nats are decent Al, but goodness this team needs to win series from a team like that.
What can he do?
Seriously how hard is it to get Colvin & Fonenot more at bats and A-Ram out of the starting line up? How hard would it have been to use Russell & Stevens more and Grabow less? How hard would it have been not to put in a guy with a craptastic OBP at leadoff or #2 spot?
You can’t complain that A-Ram is not hitting and then put him in nearly every day. Lou claims he has tried to change but other than a very occasional start for Colvin & Fonty and moving Ramirez down in the order for a game or two , he has actually done little more than trot out the same lineup and expect it to get better when it is actually getting worse.
We will never know if actually playing Colvin 2 to 3 days a week or putting A-Ram on the DL instead of sending Tracy to Iowa would have made any difference, but it is hard to imagine it would have been worse.
I actually disagree with the concept that the team was doomed to be bad from the start. There is significant talent on this team and too much of it has not been use properly while crappy players continue to be overused.
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either Jim
Jessica,
If I might make a clarifying point, my comment about turd of a team was not commentary on the level of talent on the ballclub, but with the composition of the team as a whole, and how that talent was intended to be utilized.
For example, I actually like John Grabow. I really do. But when you pay Grabow to be anything more than a middle reliever at best, you’re just making foolish decisions. If the Cubs had re-signed him, and slotted him in as a LOOGY, I wouldn’t have said a word.
by Damen Jackson on Jun 1, 2010 10:44 AM CDT up reply actions
Sigh...
Do you not remember the last time this team tried to give Fontenot more at bats? He was embarrassing as an every day second basemen last year. Aside from his inability to hit on a consistent basis, he even manages to be a worse defensive middle infielder than Ryan Theriot.
Maybe getting Colvin a few more at bats helps this team, but unless he learns to play 3rd base, re-teaches D-Lee how to hit, becomes a front-line starter, and an 8th inning reliever, there’s no saving this team as its currently constructed.
by SportinTheRegion on Jun 1, 2010 2:00 PM CDT up reply actions
yeah, but you play the hot hand
And that’s Fontenot right now.
On the other hand
you hear everyone talk about putting a guy in a position where he can succeed. Fontenot has proven he cannot succeed as an every day starter. Also, his defense is a liability, so why put him in that position?
My point is, considering he has not been a consistently good starter so far in his career, by trying to force him into that position again, you not only have a weak starting position player, but you’ve also weakened your bench.
by SportinTheRegion on Jun 1, 2010 2:14 PM CDT up reply actions
Then platoon him.
That might be a good use of both him and Theriot.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
The problem with "playing the hot hand," eg,
is that you never know when that hand’s going to cool off. It might be tonight, for all we know, Then what?
STR’s point about people being put in positions to succeed is spot on.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jun 1, 2010 3:06 PM CDT up reply actions
Go ahead...
…and fire Lou, but it will only be another “deck chair on the Titanic” if the braintrust does not change going forward.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
True enough.
However, in this muddled-up year it might be enough to give this team — which does have talent — a bounce, maybe enough of a bounce to get into contention.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al Yellon on Jun 1, 2010 10:41 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Who's out there...
That could help offensively? You can’t trade for an OF, as crowded as it is. They aren’t going to replace Lee and Ramirez, we have three 2nd basemen, Castro is going to play, pitching isn’t really the problem. What the hell do you do?
Someday we'll go all the way...
by CubsBullsBears on Jun 1, 2010 10:54 AM CDT up reply actions
Rebuild.
Any trades the Cubs will make will be geared toward amassing young talent. That’s because, as you pointed out, they’re locked in at so many positions because of NTCs and big contracts. Truth is, the Cubs have better options on the bench, in some cases, than what we get to see on the field — so trading Theriot for prospects would be OK because Fontenot would take his job and be (probably) just as good or better.
The window of this core group is pretty much closed. We should trade whoever we can and really shore up the farm system while opening up spots in Chicago for the likes of Colvin and Cashner.
Prospect
You get ONE prospect for Theriot. We’re not exactly talking prime beef here
There is no such thing as an ugly female breast
Fair enough.
I was speaking generally — “prospects” = “young talent” = but you’re probably right.
I respectfully disagree a little,
I think that a SS or 2B starved team would love to have Theriot, and would probably trade at least one good prospect, maybe two for him.
I’ll admit he isn’t the perfect model for a SS, and should be @ second for good, but the fact still remains that he CAN play SS, and that’s usually a sought after position.
I think, if he were to be put out on the market, there would be a team desperate enough to trade away someone who could really help the Cubs in a short amount of time. Key word being desperate, but as the trade deadline grows closer, it could happen.
Better to get one
If you get two, you’re basically getting guys who will be working in their uncles’ construction companies by 2012.
Theriot is not Ozzie Smith or Cal Ripken folks.
There is no such thing as an ugly female breast
by Worf on Jun 1, 2010 1:56 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
While I do agree
that Theriot isn’t Ozzie or Cal, he still could provide very useful to a team that is desperate for a 2bagger, or SS. For instance, San Diego. Do they have the prospects that would help us immediately? Probably not, but there are other teams out there that could, and would be very happy to have a guy like Theriot on their team.
As the pennant races start to spread out and the real contention teams start to pull away, you’ll see some GM try to fill a hole by possibly offering too much for a player like that, I just hope Jim is smart enough to realize he might have lost this year, and start looking to the future.
I seem to recall some guy name Pie being a sticking point to getting that little guy from Baltimore, that worked out well didn’t it?
At least if we shift the deck chairs around we'll have a better view of the iceberg...
We have met the enemy and they are us! ~ Walt Kelly, Pogo, 1971
Well, if we want to avoid hitting it...
…better put Captain ARam at the wheel.
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
by ballhawk on Jun 1, 2010 11:48 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Aye Aye - full spead ahead
"There are no curses here...Games are won and lost on the baseball field" - Lou Piniella
The Real Reason to Can Lou
Yes, he has been maddening in his stubborness with Lee and Ramirez, but I would argue that the reason he needs to be gone now is the way he deals with our young, rising stars.
Lou has so far blown it with Colvin, who has done nothing but hit, despite an embarrassing lack AB’s. It’s time for youth to be served, starting immediately. I don’t care how much a guy is getting payed, or how long he’s been there, we need to see what these kids can do.
Both Starlin and Colvin should essentially play ever day the rest of the way, so we can see how they deal with the rigors of major league baseball. Colvin should start taking ground balls at first. To me, there is still a lot to be learned from the 2010 season, even if it’s deemed a failure.
Scott Bora$ is satan.
by Canadian Cubs Fan on Jun 1, 2010 4:23 PM CDT reply actions
No.
He has only hired two managers. Hendry came in at the same time as Don Baylor was fired in mid-2002.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
It will take...
…an incredible amount of desperation for Hendry to can a guy with the long term reputation like Lou.
Either that, or it was Ricketts is telling Hendry to do it.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
Where is Richard Nixon when you need him?
This calls for a Saturday Night Massacre – keep firing GMs until you get one who will fire Piniella!
I understand Brownie
is available. He does a heckuva job.
If a quality pitching start is 3 runs and 6 innings, then a quality hitting day is 1 for 4.
If Hendry doesn't do it, this is one of those instances where the owner should step in and pull weight
“If you don’t fire him, you can both clean out your desks.”
That would get Hendry to move in a hurry. I have to admit that I’m not really sure a managerial change will help at this point. The time to do it if they were going to do it was last month when it was blatantly obvious that he wasn’t the man for the job. He still isn’t, but I think we’re stuck with him. I’m not sure how it will help Lee and Ramirez be the forces they were again, but it can’t hurt to have a new perspective either. I’m just trying to find a sane, rational approach to this situation.
RIP Ronnie James Dio (July 10, 1942 - May 16, 2010).
I'm sure the only way Hendry would fire Lou...
… would if Ricketts is telling him.
But, would Ricketts want to come in and make a wave like that? Especially during his first season as owner?
I’ve always loved Lou as a manager… but I admit, something has to change. I would rather Hendry trade off some of these players… but I doubt that will happen.
But, would Ricketts want to come in and make a wave like that? Especially during his first season as owner?
I would say yes — because I suspect Ricketts doesn’t want “Year 1” to go in the books as a disaster.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
You're funny, Al.
They made that decision as far back as the organizational meetings. Everything after that is just damage control.
by Damen Jackson on Jun 2, 2010 10:46 PM CDT up reply actions
They made that decision as far back as the organizational meetings.
And you know this how? Were you there?
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
I need only witness
the fallout. And follow the money, of course.
by Damen Jackson on Jun 3, 2010 7:39 AM CDT up reply actions
Huh?
Your post reads like one of those secret code words that spies would give to each other.
Other than that, it makes no sense.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
I think Damen is talking about this
doesn’t want "Year 1" to go in the books as a disaster.
not the firing
They gone have to stop sleeping on me one day.. I gotta be one of the best
About 3 hours ago by Eric Wright Cleveland Browns – Cornerback
I understand, as a big daddy come and take my spot type of demeanor?
by mooncamping on May 14, 2010 7:24 AM EDT
Good question...
…but everybody has their limits, and we don’t know what point it will be when Ricketts becomes desperate.
Attendance is already down (which I’m sure he isn’t crazy about), and he certainly can’t be happy with how things look at this point.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
If Lou has two weeks
to turn things around, he’s headed in the wrong direction. If it continues, I’d expect Lou to finally reach the point where he knows his time is over here. We’ll see him suddenly be happy Lou that everyone loves and in the interest of the team, he’ll step down with Hendry and Ricketts applauding the good old days when we went to the playoffs back to back.
If a quality pitching start is 3 runs and 6 innings, then a quality hitting day is 1 for 4.
Make a wave?!?!?!!?!
Because Lou is the most revered manager to ever manage? Oh wait, he isn’t. Oh, because Lou won a WS ring in 1990? Are you kidding me?
When do decisions start to get made becasue of logic, NOT EMOTION?
How pathetic is it to sit around and wring your hands over this? “Well, we don’t want to hurt Lou’s feelers.” WHO CARES?
PERFORM OR GET THE HELL OUT OF HERE. And if Hendry doesn’t pull his head outta his azz, he’s next.
MAKE THE ADJUSTMENT ALREADY. THIS GAME IS ABOUT ADJUSTMENTS.
im sorry
but now is the time for change. everybody is waiting for a 2007 type miracle from this team but it wont happen.lou is very different now than in 07. the players dont fear him anymore and this what can i do attitude just does not fly anymore.time to reward sandberg and give him a chance.and hendry paying a hitting coach 500 grand for a team that cant score runs surely does not look too good right now.
I believe...
…the hitting coach is being paid 800K, and I’m sure he is the highest paid in MLB. All that for a job 30 different guys could do with little difference between any of them.
Here’s my take on Lou; if Rickett’s opinion is that they are going in a different direction next year, then go ahead and fire him and keep your fingers crossed for the rest of 2010.
What I am much more concerned about is what Rickett’s plan is for 2011 and beyond.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
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