Z blames Lee
Haven't seen this posted anywhere yet. Sounds like someone is in denial.
almost 2 years ago
LT
49 comments
0 recs |
Email
PrintComments
Good for Soriano, he seems to have his head on right about it.
Boggles my mind that anyone supports Z’s idiocy. So much for his “apology”…I heard several people commenting there should have been a closed doors meeting and an apology from Z to Lee and the other players. If you watched that blowup at least twice, or have watched him in the past, you should have known he wasn’t going to apologize for anything. He’s been coddled so long he thinks anything he does is ok …he’s never had anyone show him with actions that he has any limits. It’s all ok as long as you throw the ball. Have a fight, trade the other guy. Why should he have expected anything different this time? I sure thought we would hear this from him. Won’t be long before his official lawyer statement comes out, but I think these statements are his real feelings.
"The ones who want to achieve and win championships motivate themselves." - Da Coach
by Sandberg's evil twin on Jun 27, 2010 10:43 AM CDT reply actions
Interesting...
All he wanted to do was pump the team up. It was completely misunderstood,‘’ a source close to Zambrano said, adding that Lee ’’took it personal’’ and told Zambrano to ‘’shut the f—- up.’’
Yet team sources say Zambrano’s rant , much of which was in Spanish, included yelling, ‘’This team is horse s——!’
Nobody cares about your fantasy baseball team
by carmen_fanzone on Jun 27, 2010 10:56 AM CDT reply actions
He's right
This team is horse s@#$. Z’s outburst was wrong and he shouldn’t have done it. It went much too far and that’s not the way a professional should behave. I’ve heard someone else say that if it were 25% less intense, it would have been OK, but he went to far.
In addition to that, it also bothers me how deferential everyone is being towards Lee in this. I think part of the reason why this team is so horrible is because no one is held accountable for their play on the field. In this case, I don’t know what people should do in regards to Lee, but Lee’s failure is consistent. I guess that I wouldn’t mind some sort of acknowledgement that these players and this play is at least partially responsible for Z’s outburst.
by jerry morales rules on Jun 27, 2010 11:05 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
What Z really should of said.
I’m pitching like horses*** — ugh, what an jackass.
Maybe next year is finally our year.
He should have
He should take responsibility for his play too.
I just think Lee is getting a free pass here. I’m not sure why.
by jerry morales rules on Jun 27, 2010 11:12 AM CDT up reply actions
Lee is getting a pass because he didn't do anything!
Why is this such a difficult concept?
I posted about this in the game preview thread, you can continue it there.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
I thought about replying to this
but thought anyone who didn’t understand was never going to. Add to that you’d have to not visited the site in 2 days not to know the reason. He knows. He just doesn’t agree. You have someone charging near you and accusing everyone of screwing up while you just made several mistakes…and someone sticks up for himself and he’s the one in the wrong? that’s crazy.
"The ones who want to achieve and win championships motivate themselves." - Da Coach
by Sandberg's evil twin on Jun 27, 2010 11:23 AM CDT up reply actions
I see it as,
the people who have always had angst for Derrek are the ones thinking he deserves criticism.
Maybe next year is finally our year.
good call
Unofficial Self Appointed President of the Player Formerly Known as Castro Blocker Fan Club
Bleed Castro Blue
For the record
I was thinking that Lee should be extended at the beginning of this season. Based on his play last year, his body style, and his athleticism, I thought that two more years would have been a decent risk to take, especially since there were no good alternatives in the minors.
Lee’s been a great Cub, but he’s been a failure this year. My only objection is that incompetence is tolerated way too much in this clubhouse.
by jerry morales rules on Jun 27, 2010 12:00 PM CDT up reply actions
That's a fair statement of Lee this season.
If other people accusing Lee of being responsible had been that honest, I doubt there would be as much argument about it.
"The ones who want to achieve and win championships motivate themselves." - Da Coach
by Sandberg's evil twin on Jun 28, 2010 2:51 AM CDT up reply actions
Poor wording on my part
I don’t think that Lee did anything wrong on the play in question or even in the aftermath of that inning.
What Lee is getting a free pass on is his play. It’s atrocious, he may very well be the worst #3 hitter in baseball right now, and his play is part of the mixture that caused Z’s outburst.
This clubhouse is much too comfortable with incompetence. As long as Lee is a good guy he get s a pass.
by jerry morales rules on Jun 27, 2010 11:53 AM CDT up reply actions
When his teammate went off the deep end
Lee responded by yelling “SHUT THE F UP!” a few times, then “THIS IS BULLS*” a few more times. Others in the dugout seemed to be ready to address the tirade in a calmer way. If this were a traffic accident with shared responsibility, Z would be 95% responsible, but Lee would be 4% responsible. The extra 1% is because we need to blame Lou, too.
Fontenot (fon-te-no): Cajun for "scrappy"
Don't we need to blame Rothschild for something?
Everyone else seems to.
by Shanghai Badger on Jun 27, 2010 1:50 PM CDT up reply actions
The ballboy should have blocked Z's path so he had to walk another direction.
DFA!
"The ones who want to achieve and win championships motivate themselves." - Da Coach
by Sandberg's evil twin on Jun 28, 2010 2:54 AM CDT up reply actions
what?
When is Rothschild ever even mentioned here?
by HuskerCorner on Jun 29, 2010 12:34 AM CDT up reply actions
Do you have the Dugout Bugged?
I agree with you., though I think this too much of a declarative statement. It’s your opinion that Lee didn’t do anything. It does take two to tango, as the old saying goes.
"Didn't do anything" is a bit much.
Lee could have done better. Telling the crazy guy “SHUT THE F*** UP” over and over again is not really the best kind of leadership.
MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown
What exactly do you say to a 300 pound man screaming at you for problems
He was directly responsible for…at least one of them? What magic words should Lee have said that would have helped? Lee may be responsible for having a horrible season and not leading the team in that respect, but when you have a guy screaming and charging right next to you, saying hey…calm down…its not that bad…we really want to do better…is not going to happen. And if by some miracle someone was soooo long sighted to say that, Z would ignore him and continue his attack. I guess he could have ignored him, but I don’t believe any leader would do that.
"The ones who want to achieve and win championships motivate themselves." - Da Coach
by Sandberg's evil twin on Jun 28, 2010 2:58 AM CDT up reply actions
Why shouldn't Lee get a pass?
I realize he’s struggled this year but he’s still been a ROCK for us since he put on a Cub uniform. He’s been a ROCK for us since 2007. Something we can’t say the same for Zambrano. So if all these people who say Lee shouldn’t of been the one who said anything, who better to say anything? He’s been our best hitter for quite some time, so I wouldn’t rather anyone to put Zambrano in his place than Derrek Lee. No one. If we are going off performance, should Tyler Colvin tell Z to shut up?
I just don’t understand why Derrek is being even ALITTLE criticized for this. He is our leader, and he’s been it on and off for this team for quite some time, and it’s damn near time for us, as Cubs fan to appreciate a guy like him.
Maybe next year is finally our year.
by Unique on Jun 27, 2010 11:24 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Least you didn't say Cub's fan. Al would have flagged you for that lol
"The ones who want to achieve and win championships motivate themselves." - Da Coach
by Sandberg's evil twin on Jun 28, 2010 3:01 AM CDT up reply actions
He has been a great Cub
I do applaud him for that.
But I don’t see any accountability for what he’s doing on the field. Maybe he should go to Piniella and ask to bat 7th for a while.
As I wrote above, this team is much too complacent with incompetence.
by jerry morales rules on Jun 27, 2010 11:57 AM CDT up reply actions
WHAT does that have to do with anything?
Zambrano was calling this team horsesh— and Lee stood up to his crap, like a leader should do, REGARDLESS of his performance, you know why? BECAUSE THAT’S WHAT LEADERS DO! I don’t understand arguing the opposite. Take current performance out of this. Derrek Lee WAS NEVER in the wrong for this.
And the debate on Lee batting 7th, THIS WHOLE TEAM has trouble hitting besides one or two guys at a time, if that. So really in this lineup, there is no decent replacement to bat ahead of D-Lee for the exception of Colvin and Byrd.
Maybe next year is finally our year.
It's the larger picture
I never said that Lee was in the wrong for what happened on Friday. I don’t think he was.
Lee and others should recognize that they are failing and their failure is part of the mixture that made the Z outburst possible. That’s not to say that Z doesn’t deserve his blame. Z is primarily responsible for this, but Lee, other players, and Hendry are all at least slightly to blame here.
Lee probably should have agreed that this team is horsecrap. Zambrano shouldn’t have said it, but he isn’t wrong. It’s more than just Friday.
by jerry morales rules on Jun 27, 2010 12:30 PM CDT up reply actions
Have you seen the play in question?
I saw it and DLee definitely made a good effort to get to the ball.
He didn’t just stand there and watch it go by.
If you think you've seen it all...just wait!
by CubFanSince1970 on Jun 27, 2010 11:26 AM CDT up reply actions
Nice. Also love the Red Stripe reference. Great beer if a tad expensive.
"The ones who want to achieve and win championships motivate themselves." - Da Coach
by Sandberg's evil twin on Jun 28, 2010 3:05 AM CDT up reply actions
I have been a "Z"
fan for along while. This one, he is wrong, totally wrong. His performance the last two years has been brutal. He truly needs to look in the mirror.
The Cubs have had some terrible performance this year from there so called All Star players Lee, Ramy and Z. Ramy and Lee reconize this, Z doesn’t, here lies the problem.
Good on Soriano. All the bashing he gets, the guy is spot on about this situation.
by Grockcubs on Jun 27, 2010 2:28 PM CDT reply actions 4 recs
Soriano gets way too much criticism...
…for taking the money that Hendry offered him. There’s never been the SLIGHTEST indication that he’s not anything but a professional, stand up guy in the clubhouse, etc.
Z, on the other hand, reminds me of trying to reason with my 4 yr. old nephew when he’s having a temper tantrum. Somebody else is always to blame, etc.
I’m at the point where the sight of Zambrano makes me sick to my stomach (and there was once a time when I was one of his staunchest defenders-but those were the bygone days when he was, you know, good).
by bluekoolaide on Jun 27, 2010 5:54 PM CDT up reply actions
Well said. It surely is the hallmark of immaturity to blame your problems on others when frustrated.
"The ones who want to achieve and win championships motivate themselves." - Da Coach
by Sandberg's evil twin on Jun 28, 2010 3:07 AM CDT up reply actions
Winners and champions see the problem on a team,
Then go out and do something about it themselves. There was a chance Z would have been ignored if he hadn’t been screwing up this season himself or in one of the plays he was bitching about.
"The ones who want to achieve and win championships motivate themselves." - Da Coach
by Sandberg's evil twin on Jun 28, 2010 3:10 AM CDT up reply actions
"Ramy and Lee reconize this"
Do they? I believe one of the other controversies were Ramy and Lee’s ego getting in the way of their devotion to Jaramillo. With Ramy declaring “I’m my own hitting coach” and Lee questioning the importance of a major league hitting coach. These are two players that have allowed their ego’s to prevent a possible successful intervention. No one on this current roster can get out of this season without the proverbial “blood on their hands”
Agreed.
Plenty of blame to go around here. Z, however, makes a convenient lightning rod based on his uncanny ability to turn into a complete assclown when the cameras are on him.
by bluekoolaide on Jun 27, 2010 5:48 PM CDT up reply actions
Yep, I don't agree with Trout often but here what he says seems very accurate.
Lee made quotes of this and it seems a fair statement to make…along with him saying he knows his swing better than anyone. If that’s true, it’s scary cause he sure hasn’t been able to hit. I understand that he may very well be working with Rudy, but when you make the statements he did to the media, it leaves the impression his heart isn’t in it.
And this team is a failure from top to bottom. Having your two biggest RBI men failing so horribly is a big part of that.
"The ones who want to achieve and win championships motivate themselves." - Da Coach
by Sandberg's evil twin on Jun 28, 2010 3:16 AM CDT up reply actions
You don't know
That they have allowed their “ego’s to prevent a possible successful intervention”. Aside from the quote from Ramirez, which may be taken out of context, please provide proof that they are blowing off assitance from Jaramillo. I’m sick of you making this claim.
"Ask Dad. He'll know. And on the off chance he doesn't, he'll make something up"
I can only base my conclusions on things said,
even Jaramillo pretty much said what we all gleaned from what was going on.
"But you know what, this guy has hit by himself his whole career, and all of a sudden I come in, and why is he supposed to listen?
“I’m sick of you making this claim”.
You shouldn’t take this so personally, I can only draw conclusions based on what’s reported.
How about you please provide proof that Ramirez and Lee are now Jaramillo disciples.
The burden is on you
I prefer to take the stance that while Lee and Ramirez are not “disciples” of Jaramillo – they are probably not shunning his guidance as you seem to be suggesting. Your claim is based on your own judgement – which IMO happens to be at the extreme side of the spectrum. And I am not taking it personally, the only thing that offends me is Steve Trouts hair in your avatar.
"Ask Dad. He'll know. And on the off chance he doesn't, he'll make something up"
Have you ever been so good at something
or were so confident in your abilities to get the job done that when someone offered you their opinion on how to do it, you just stared through them as if they didn’t exist while at the same time giving the appearance that you’re listening?
I’m sorry but the burden isn’t on me, again I’m using actual words from player and coaches mouths to provide a basis for my opinion. You’re just hoping that’s not the case.
BTW, layoff The Trouts hairstyle. That was the thing back then. :)
by troutfishin on Jun 27, 2010 10:42 PM CDT up reply actions
I think the hitting coach angle has been a bit overstated on this site
Advice from hitting coaches isn’t gospel truth. Based on hirings and firings the position seems to be among the most disposable on a big league roster. I’m not saying it’s a worthless position or that Jaramillo is terrible, but I think the idea that Rami and Lee are having bad years because they’re somehow tuning out Rudy is ridiculous.
At this point in their careers, they’re not going to adopt entirely new swings based on anyone’s advice. And I find it hard to believe that any player who is struggling would not tweak things. They’re always tweaking things. They’re just having bad years…. and they’re getting older. Simple as that.
It’s not as though Rudy has a guaranteed cure and they’re stubbornly refusing it because they know better. Chances are Rudy doesn’t have too many ideas for them either.
I'll give you this
You did use Rami’s quote regarding him being his own hitting coach. But I think you are stretching that to try and suggest that he is avoiding help altogether. I don’t buy that. As for Trout – you know I have to give you crap about that. But I will say I like those aviator sunglasses he is rocking in that pic – makes up for the feathered locks.
"Ask Dad. He'll know. And on the off chance he doesn't, he'll make something up"
Has this been proven
that he “claimed to be his own hitting coach” My point is when has “Z” ever stated his performance has been poor the last two years. It has always been something or someone else that is the problem, never “Z”. Ramy and Lee might have had some difficulty this year, and I emphazise this year, “Z” has been royal pain in the year almost every year, and he bitches about it.
They reconize there poor performance, have they bought into Rudy? probably not, thats on them. However there professionalism is far greater than “Z”
I agree with you, but Z isn't the only problem.
Last year was Bradley, this year it’s Z, once all the boogeymen are gone they are going to have to start looking at themselves in the mirror and realize that one man can’t can’t bring a team to it’s knees and one man can’t bring them to the promised land.
And further that you're going to get more selfish lightning rods because the athletic world is full of them.
The Cubs better figure out a way to handle them and quick. This will happen again sometime next year or soon if they don’t. They have to figure out a way to handle it when it’s a smaller problem so it doesn’t become huge like MB and Z.
"The ones who want to achieve and win championships motivate themselves." - Da Coach
by Sandberg's evil twin on Jun 28, 2010 3:19 AM CDT up reply actions
Agree
“Z” just has that wonderful way to grab the headlines in the most colorful way. This team needs to evaluate its self from within.
Comments For This Post Are Closed
Secondary Sidebar
User Tools
FanPosts
Community blog posts and discussion.
Recommended FanPosts
Recent FanPosts
FanShots
Quick hits of video, photos, quotes, chats, links and lists that you find around the web.
Recommended FanShots
Recent FanShots
Cubs By The Numbers
Cubs By The Numbers is a history of the ballclub by uniform number, but the biographies help trace the history of our beloved team in a new way. For everyone who's a Cubs fan, anyone who ever wore the uniform is like family. Cubs By The Numbers reintroduces readers to some of their long-lost ancestors, even ones they think they already know.
Click here to order your copy, available now!
Recent Stories in Chicago Cubs Game Threads
Recent Stories in Ticket Exchanges
Baseball Nation Recent Stories
In Association With
Big League Stew - MLB - Yahoo! Sports
- College player makes impossible over the fence catch to save tournament game (Video)
- Security!: Camden Yards guard collides with Royals’ Mike Moustakas
- The Juice: Nelson Cruz matches career high eight RBIs, Pujols stays hot in Seattle
- Benches clear at Fenway as Red Sox-Rays rivalry heats up
- Keeping good company: Albert Pujols becomes fourth-youngest player to hit 450 home runs
