Colvin's Big Day Leads Cubs Past White Sox 8-6
You don't know whether to laugh or cry after one like this.
Tyler Colvin should have, once and for all, put to rest the idea that he can't hit major league lefthanders. He hit a three-run homer off one of the better ones in the AL (John Danks), then spanked an RBI single off lefty reliever Randy Williams in the eighth after Alfonso Soriano took the team lead in homers back from Colvin with his 11th in that inning.
Turns out the Cubs needed all those runs, too, because Carlos Marmol put us through absolute agony in a brutal 34-pitch ninth inning. The Cubs beat the White Sox 8-6, ending their winning streak at 11, but when Marmol ran the count to 2-0 on Alex Rios after issuing three walks and allowing three runs in the ninth inning, I had visions of him walking Rios and seeing Paul Konerko hit a walkoff slam.
It didn't happen, of course, and I do understand why Marmol was in the game in a non-save situation, since he hadn't pitched since Thursday (although a five-run lead in the ninth would have been a perfect situation for Brian Schlitter to make his major league debut). Now, though, after 34 pitches on a hot, sticky day that turned to sunshine after dire forecasts of storms, he probably isn't available tomorrow.
Should we take pride in the fact that the White Sox have won 15 of their last 17 games and the only wins anyone has been able to put up against them in that time were by the Cubs? Or that the eight runs the Cubs scored today are the most the Sox have given up in one game since June 4?
I guess, but it doesn't really make this season any easier to take.
That said, the Cubs looked very, very good today (Marmol excepted). In addition to Colvin and Soriano homering, Geovany Soto smacked out three hits, Derrek Lee had a pair and Starlin Castro had two hits in what seems like the first time since forever. Only Jeff Baker failed to get a hit as the Cubs pounded out 14 in all.
Ryan Dempster put up a fairly high pitch count and frankly, after the first two innings, when Danks set down the Cubs in order and Dempster had slogged through five hits and a walk, I thought the day's result would be depressingly familiar. But the Cubs came through against Danks and the substantial minority (I'd say about one-third) of the crowd that were Cubs fans had something, at last, to cheer about.
The crowd and Sox security were much better today. Sunday afternoons tend to be more sedate on the South Side in general, although there were quite a number of loud Cubs and Sox fans yelling at each other in my section (today, bleacher 163), they were good-natured about it, not nasty (though I can't figure out how anyone can yell that loud and that long and still have a voice left afterwards). There appeared to be a pretty big fight in the upper deck in the left field corner late in the game, but a large number of security people descended quickly (or ascended, as the case may be) and quashed it.
I'm very, very happy to have baseball to write about instead of various sideshows. We still do not know what the final upshot of the Carlos Zambrano situation will be and may not until tomorrow, or later. Meanwhile, enjoy the win, and hope the Cubs can turn the tables on the Pirates the next three days.
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Colvin second on the team in homers
In only 150 at-bats. Three starts a week my butt.
"That pitch wasn’t down and in, that pitch was down and up." Tim McCarver
by wrigleyrocker12 on Jun 27, 2010 5:44 PM CDT reply actions
Colvin is a stud.
third time I’ve said it today :-)
they’ll make you laugh (at them), they’ll make you cry (tears of desperation)
Colvin is a new cornerstone
He has played his way on as a starter. Castro is doing the same and so is Soto.
Zambrano has played himself off the team. Good trade him to Boston (who now need a 2B and starter)…package for bad contracts….
And then begin bringing up other players who will earn their stripes/
Piniella: "This is a tougher job than I thought it would be, I'm going to be honest with you."
Hmmmmm...
Z, Theriot, and a boatload of cash for a minor league roster filler?
by Dcr18 on Jun 27, 2010 6:26 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
Boston won't take him.
I suspect his only destination is the Mets.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
Think we could get Jacobs?
"That pitch wasn’t down and in, that pitch was down and up." Tim McCarver
by wrigleyrocker12 on Jun 27, 2010 6:34 PM CDT up reply actions
Sure, but why would you want him?
And in any case, you could get him for nothing. The Mets DFA’d him two months ago.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
Nevermind
I could have sworn he played some third. In that case, it wouldn’t hurt to give him a try, as he has lots of pop.
"That pitch wasn’t down and in, that pitch was down and up." Tim McCarver
by wrigleyrocker12 on Jun 27, 2010 6:55 PM CDT up reply actions
Ugh.
Jacobs will be 30 in October and his numbers declined year after year. He’s a slightly better Micah Hoffpauir.
If you want to take a shot at an actual young player, see if the Cubs can pry Kila Ka’aihue away from the Royals.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
Al Are you sure
You want to be typing Kila Ka’aihue on a regular basis. Lets get him & Austin Biebens-Dirkx in the team together :)
Ugh. If you are suggesting another platoon, I think I've seen
more than enough of those here. Getting good prospects always is a good thing…but I’d like to get an everyday player up myself as a result.
"The ones who want to achieve and win championships motivate themselves." - Da Coach
by Sandberg's evil twin on Jun 28, 2010 2:36 AM CDT up reply actions
Bibens-Dirkx is a pitcher.
So no, that would not be a platoon. Ka’aihue is a genuine prospect, though a bit old.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
Any chance...
we can get Brandon Manumaleuna to catch and Pisa Tinoisamoa at third on that team?
The Chicago Unpronounceables!
by Steven Schweickert on Jun 28, 2010 7:16 AM CDT up reply actions
You don't create a cornerstone with half of a season and unproven defense.
I love the guy and am excited about what he can do for this team in the future, but let’s not get ahead of ourselves. Trade Z because we need him out of the clubhouse, because he hasn’t pitched consistently in years, not because now Tyler makes offense unnecessary. Colvin has earned more playing time yes.
"The ones who want to achieve and win championships motivate themselves." - Da Coach
by Sandberg's evil twin on Jun 27, 2010 11:33 PM CDT up reply actions
I say we should platoon him
He’s too good to be on our team.
I wonder what Neifi Perez is doing...
by Champaign Cubbies on Jun 27, 2010 5:46 PM CDT reply actions
Or trade him
"Baseball is almost the only orderly thing in a very unorderly world. If you get three strikes, even the best lawyer in the world can't get you off." ~ Bill Veeck
for a broken down catcher
Unofficial Self Appointed President of the Player Formerly Known as Castro Blocker Fan Club
Bleed Castro Blue
Listening to Tigers game today on the radio...
and they were commenting how impressed they were with the young kid Colvin!
Of course they have two highly-touted young players of their own in Austin Jackson and Brandon Boesch (who already has 40-some RBI as a rookie).
Does any Cub have 40 RBI?
If you think you've seen it all...just wait!
by CubFanSince1970 on Jun 27, 2010 5:49 PM CDT reply actions
have to find a taker for DLee, wonder if the Yanks think their pin stripes still are magical
Piniella: "This is a tougher job than I thought it would be, I'm going to be honest with you."
What would they need him for?
They have a 1B and plenty of DH types.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
Maybe they'd trade us...
Teixiera, since he’s struggling. :-p It’d be only fair…
by CubsWin!Oregon on Jun 27, 2010 7:20 PM CDT up reply actions
And plenty like anyone that are outperforming him this year.
Which sadly, will be the problem the Cubs will face in trading him to anyone.
"The ones who want to achieve and win championships motivate themselves." - Da Coach
by Sandberg's evil twin on Jun 27, 2010 11:36 PM CDT up reply actions
Man, I heard someone say the other day they thought Lee was being showcased when he played.
To me that is so absurd right now it’s funny. I mean he’s hitting about .225, homers aren’t much better, and made a few of his low amount of errors lately…why would the Cubs want to showcase him right now? You just have him keep his head down, start producing and quietly turn things around like you’d want from Rami. Hope he sneaks under the radar, he gives good monthly numbers and a team believes the rest was a bad first half.
"The ones who want to achieve and win championships motivate themselves." - Da Coach
by Sandberg's evil twin on Jun 27, 2010 11:40 PM CDT up reply actions
In twice the number of PAs
If a quality pitching start is 3 runs and 6 innings, then a quality hitting day is 1 for 4.
Happy to see the win
My ongoing statement of I don’t hate the Sox, I just hate Sox fans stands.
Good to see the team getting some hitting
Good to see Dempster get a much deserved win
"Baseball is almost the only orderly thing in a very unorderly world. If you get three strikes, even the best lawyer in the world can't get you off." ~ Bill Veeck
That's nice to hear. I hate them to my core and realize that sometimes there's a great person
inside that screams to get out of the madness. I can’t say I like anything about the Sox whether its the fans or the team. Other than a winning streak lately or that they won the WS. Looking at that field for 3 days made me want to gag the whole time. I didn’t hate that team quite as much until Ozzie started as manager and repeatedly trashed the Cubs and Wrigley Field so much. You have fans that are complete idiots and you think you have a right to trash us? nah.
"The ones who want to achieve and win championships motivate themselves." - Da Coach
by Sandberg's evil twin on Jun 27, 2010 11:45 PM CDT up reply actions
Hate?
I didn’t hate that team quite as much until Ozzie started as manager and repeatedly trashed the Cubs and Wrigley Field so much.
I know Ozzie has stated that he doesn’t like Wrigley and made jokes about that. But when has he “trashed the Cubs?” Examples?
You have fans that are complete idiots and you think you have a right to trash us?
I’m so glad the Cubs and Wrigley are idiot-free zones.
"In time you can turn these obsessions into careers...Hurry Down Doomsday the bugs are taking over." - Elvis Costello
As I noted in my Saturday recap...
… both Cubs and Sox fans were causing trouble. It was the reaction of Sox security that bothered me.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
Oh please crawdad. I don't hate any person, I was talking about a rivalry
Take it for what I was trying to say…I’m a rival of the Sox and they have certainly trashed us over the years. I see you want to pick this apart, no thanks. Tell me I am wrong and all about whatever you want, I’m not going to get into a dissection of this.
"The ones who want to achieve and win championships motivate themselves." - Da Coach
by Sandberg's evil twin on Jun 28, 2010 7:27 AM CDT up reply actions
Honestly...
You made a clear, direct statement:
I didn’t hate that team quite as much until Ozzie started as manager and repeatedly trashed the Cubs and Wrigley Field so much.
It’s not a “dissection” it’s called a discussion. You made the statement, all I’m asking for is proof, some supporting facts to back up that statement.
"In time you can turn these obsessions into careers...Hurry Down Doomsday the bugs are taking over." - Elvis Costello
Ask all you want. I knew you'd do this. I'm not searching for a quote so you can
tell me it means nothing and pick that apart. Go ahead and keep posting about how I’m chicken and can’t back anything up. You obviously have an agenda and want to call out the Cubs. I’m not fueling your need.
"The ones who want to achieve and win championships motivate themselves." - Da Coach
by Sandberg's evil twin on Jun 28, 2010 8:46 AM CDT up reply actions
His agenda isn't calling out the Cubs
It’s calling out Cubs fans who trash or want to feel superior to Sox fans. It’s very easy to not push this button and have a pleasant conversation with the guy, but many around here don’t seem to understand how.
"Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have?" -Frank Chance
"If [Ruth] had [called his shot], I would have knocked him down with the next pitch." -Charlie Root
Righhht..."It's called a discussion" This little person understands words.
He picks out sentences he doesn’t like, analyzes them for errors,That’s dissection.He’s just wanting to have a good natured discussion. Right. No thanks.
"The ones who want to achieve and win championships motivate themselves." - Da Coach
by Sandberg's evil twin on Jun 28, 2010 8:59 AM CDT up reply actions
I think you're looking for that, and so you see what you want to see.
I’ve never had a problem having a civil discussion with Dr Crawdad.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
Thanks...
And all I’ve asked for is substance. Hey I’ve made mistakes here and apologized for them. Perhaps the poster went too far and just doesn’t want to admit it.
Ozzie has rightfully deserved to be ripped on many occasions. If he’s trashed the Cubs, he gets what he deserves. I don’t remember him doing that though. If the poster has some examples, I’d like to hear them.
"In time you can turn these obsessions into careers...Hurry Down Doomsday the bugs are taking over." - Elvis Costello
He was being condescending, that's very obvious.
It was obvious from the start no matter what I typed he was gonna highlight sections and tell me how wrong I am with every reply. That he won’t stop posting them after I told him I wasn’t interested just shows me I was right. I don’t know the man, have not had a problem with what little I’ve seen before, and have no interest in picking apart his sentences either.
"The ones who want to achieve and win championships motivate themselves." - Da Coach
by Sandberg's evil twin on Jun 28, 2010 9:09 AM CDT up reply actions
Please...
… if my tone is wrong, I apologize. Again, I merely want to know on what basis you said that Ozzie’s repeatedly trashed the Cubs.
I don’t know how to ask you in the appropriate manner other than to say I’m open to it. I don’t think I’m an Ozzie Guillen apologist, if he’s trashed the Cubs, heck I’ll trash him for it.
"In time you can turn these obsessions into careers...Hurry Down Doomsday the bugs are taking over." - Elvis Costello
I'll apologize here for demeaning Ozzie about calling out the Cubs
If it makes you happy. I’m not interested in doing research for this. I have no interest in it. Since Clutch who I respect and Al who I also respect tell me you have no agenda, I will believe that. I think Ozzie’s legacy of comments speaks for itself, and if I’m wrong that he has not slammed the Cubs, so be it. I should have worded my sentences better about not being interested in discussing this. I do apologize for saying you have an agenda. It seemed like it from your comments, but I think you’ve shown that was a wrongful assumption.
"The ones who want to achieve and win championships motivate themselves." - Da Coach
by Sandberg's evil twin on Jun 28, 2010 9:22 AM CDT up reply actions
I did not see him as condescending at all.
If you do, maybe you should just ignore him.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
I tried to ignore him, although I chose my words wrong in doing so.
I apologized to him for assuming he had an agenda, and I’m moving on. I haven’t had a problem or discussed anything with him before. Hopefully won’t have that happen again.
"The ones who want to achieve and win championships motivate themselves." - Da Coach
by Sandberg's evil twin on Jun 28, 2010 9:33 AM CDT up reply actions
BS, Al.
You had to send him warnings when he went off site and started sending me homophobic crap via email.
Not a big deal in the grand scheme of things, sure. But don’t act like he doesn’t push buttons.
٩(͡๏̯͡๏)۶ Dum spiro spero... | Twitter: @andrewjstone.
by AndrewJStone on Jun 28, 2010 10:32 AM CDT up reply actions
Get over it already...
You’ve been crying about that (and most important, making that something that it wasn’t) for what over a year now. I should call you a name – a drama queen – but that would only give you something else to bitch about endlessly. BTW are you still against political correctness?
"In time you can turn these obsessions into careers...Hurry Down Doomsday the bugs are taking over." - Elvis Costello
Get over you being a homophobe...
… or you sending me homophobic emails?
Look, if you want to be an ignorant jerk in private (which, undoubtedly, is why you sent that shit in an email instead of responding to me on here) that is fine. I’m over it. Lots of people out there just like you, and as long as they aren’t waving their tiny-minded stuff in my face (or the faces of my gay friends and family), it’s fine. But the second you brought that ignorant crap in to my inbox, you lost the right to tell me when to get over it.
Call me a drama queen all you’d like, but i’m quite capable of having undramatic conversations with people who can hold them without calling me a fag or belittling the residents of Boystown, a neighborhood i happen to have many friends in.
I was responding to Al characterization of you as a “civil” person, anyways. It’s quite obvious you don’t appreciate what i have to say and reading my words makes you “uncivil”… why not just ignore it?
٩(͡๏̯͡๏)۶ Dum spiro spero... | Twitter: @andrewjstone.
by AndrewJStone on Jun 28, 2010 11:09 AM CDT up reply actions
Oh, brother.
Are we starting this up again?
Both of you, ignore each other. OK? Enough.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
Hope that's the last time...
… AJS brings up that baseless slander.
I’ll gladly ignore AJS, however as long as I’m posting here I’ll not ignore it when he posts that smear of me being a homophobe and all that.
Regarding the “incident” he’s referring to, I’ve tried to explain. I’ve tried to apologize. That’s not enough for him. So what does AJS want from me?
I think the reason AJS keeps posting that inflated smear here, to try to run me off this discussion group.
I stand by my assertion, one I’ve made here for about 5 years:
Why are…
* racist tinged jokes, acceptable
* gay tinged jokes, unacceptableBoth are wrong.
"In time you can turn these obsessions into careers...Hurry Down Doomsday the bugs are taking over." - Elvis Costello
Heh...
Baseless? Anybody that buys that need only see the emails. Don’t be daft. You are defending the indefensible. And i’m sure there is a reason Al is telling us BOTH to knock it off, instead of continuing to defend your “civil discussion” while telling only ME to knock off the “smears”. Maybe because he’s seen the emails, so he knows what i’m talking about?
You play the good guy Sox fan, you are obviously a smart enough dude, and it’s certainly not within my power or wishes to run you out of here (paranoia much?). I didn’t set out to have this discussion with you again, but i certainly don’t give two craps if your feelings are hurt over it. Somebody pointed out that you are condescending, that you come here to push buttons (a fair assessment of a Sox fan on a Cubs board, even IF you were always cordial and polite), and others (Al specifically) tried to defend you from being a ‘button-pusher". He must have forgotten those emails, and i simply chimed in to state that i know, from experience, you aren’t as civil as he claims.
Now, if i give you the benefit of the doubt, assume you didn’t mean any of the shit you said when you emailed me (uninvited, it should be noted), that you were just having bad day, you are a friend to the gay people, blah, blah, blah… what do i have? An email with no purpose other than to push my buttons. Which, guess what? YOU DID! IT’S STILL GOT ME! I WAS PISSED, AND IT STILL MIFFS ME. YOU WIN! So now deal with it.
If you don’t want to be “smeared” as a homophobe, there is a simple option that for some reason didn’t occur to you – don’t send people homophobic emails. Don’t call people homophobic names. Don’t belittle entire fanbases or neighborhoods on the North Side simply because they are within proximity to some people who don’t operate the same way you do. I have friends and family who have endured a lot at the hands of people who were saying things that sounded an awful lot like what you were spewing at me that day. But you didn’t know that. You might have gotten a like-minded jerk who was down to spend his afternoon trading off-color insults. You didn’t get that lucky, but at least you weren’t sending that shit to one of my gay friends or co-workers (one of which no frequents this site at my behest, but mainly lurks – i wonder why?).
That’s all i have to say to you about it. I’ll drop it – you won’t hear from me on the issue again. And hopefully, since it seems you are so sensitive to the issue of being exposed for whatever it was you were doing that day, homophobic, button pushing, uncivl or otherwise, it’ll be the last time somebody here has to deal with your shenanigans.
٩(͡๏̯͡๏)۶ Dum spiro spero... | Twitter: @andrewjstone.
by AndrewJStone on Jun 29, 2010 9:25 AM CDT up reply actions
Some words of yours I agree with.
… knock off the "smears"…
Don’t call people…names.
Don’t belittle entire fanbases or neighborhoods…simply because they are within proximity to some people who don’t operate (or look) the same way you do.
I have friends and family who have endured a lot at the hands of people who were saying things that sounded an awful lot like (what gets often spewed here)…
(STOP) off-color insults.
Funny thing is this is how it started, folks here were posting nasty insults of the people who live around Sox Park, that IMHO had a racist tinge to them. You sided with those posting the ugly smears. I tried to draw an analogy, to show how that insult was wrong to the nasty things said about some of the folks who live nearby Wrigley. Both insults are insulting and wrong. And in the end that’s really what my point was to you in that email.
I’ve explained it clearly several times. I’ve apologized several times. You’ve glossed right over those explanations and apologies then exaggerated what I said. Saying repeatedly how I “filled your inbox with homophobic emails” and stating that I sent you multiple homophobic emails was either a deliberate exaggeration or a curious choice of language, when there was clearly ONE email that was “homophobic” as you say.
That said though without any regret I’ll apologize yet again… I apologize for sending you TWO emails – one with the analogy and the other calling you an AH. If, as you say, they offended you, I’m sorry. I regret sending those two emails.
As you feel for those insulted by “homophobic” jokes, so do I about racist jokes (outright and the tinged ones) and the degrading, insulting comments about other Southsiders here. I wish you’d step up and speak out against the hate that’s spewed here all too often against Southsiders.
"In time you can turn these obsessions into careers...Hurry Down Doomsday the bugs are taking over." - Elvis Costello
IF only you'd take your own advice
… And then maybe you won’t feel the need to carry out your "condemnations", which seem to vary between equally insulting bits and feigned outrage over jokes you’d be better off ignoring than fighting. - by AndrewJStone on Jan 25, 2010
"In time you can turn these obsessions into careers...Hurry Down Doomsday the bugs are taking over." - Elvis Costello
Homophobic jokes aren't the kind i have to feign outrage over...
… and are rarely better off ignored. Maybe if you’d just called me “gay” in a comment or something, that’d be how i handled it. You didn’t do that, and i’m quite certain you understand the difference.
٩(͡๏̯͡๏)۶ Dum spiro spero... | Twitter: @andrewjstone.
by AndrewJStone on Jun 29, 2010 9:26 AM CDT up reply actions
Agenda?
Yes, and I’ll state it here again. It’s not name-calling or attributing a motive to you. I am merely asking on what basis you made this clear, declarative statement, that Ozzie has “repeatedly trashed the Cubs.”
I’m not asking for Scripture, just trying to see on what basis you stated that. I don’t remember Ozzie trashing the Cubs. I do remember Ozzie making clear his feelings on Wrigley.
If as seems clear, you made that statement w/o basis in what Guillen has actually said, I won’t call you a “chicken” but you should be candidly honest and admit that you have no substance, no actual support for that statement. Ah, but rather than be candid and honest you want to trash me, no?
"In time you can turn these obsessions into careers...Hurry Down Doomsday the bugs are taking over." - Elvis Costello
So Colvin is playing well.
I guess that’s why he’s not getting more playing time.
I went on the mountain hike, and while my legs are completely worn out, I made it to the summit of Mount Mansfield, which is at 4,393 feet (1,339 meters) the tallest peak in Vermont.
I am now doing a very good penguin impression.
I didn't believe it last August, but it turns out that love survives.
Preparing to hike to the summit of Mount Washington in New Hampshire on Saturday, July 10. Preparation hike up Mount Mansfield in Vermont planned for June 26....
State high point count: 2/50
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Jun 27, 2010 5:56 PM CDT reply actions
On the one hand...
I want to tease Vermont (and the whole east coast) for having such a piddling highest point (4,300 would be a hill in Oregon. My house, for example, is at over 2,500ft). But I don’t want to take away from what sounds like a good hike nonetheless. :)
Hope it was fun!
by CubsWin!Oregon on Jun 27, 2010 7:26 PM CDT up reply actions
It was.
Check my sig line, though. I’m going for Mount Washington in New Hampshire. 6,288 feet. That’s better, right?
To be honest, 4,393 feet is high, but many states in the east (Illinois, Wisconsin, Pennsylvania, and Kentucky to name a few) have smaller summits than that.
I didn't believe it last August, but it turns out that love survives.
Preparing to hike to the summit of Mount Washington in New Hampshire on Saturday, July 10....
State high point count: 2/50
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Jun 27, 2010 7:31 PM CDT up reply actions
Illinois, Wisconsin, Kentucky east?
ummm not too sure about that IMHO
Unofficial Self Appointed President of the Player Formerly Known as Castro Blocker Fan Club
Bleed Castro Blue
I meant east of the Mississippi River.
Should have clarified better. Mea culpa.
I didn't believe it last August, but it turns out that love survives.
Preparing to hike to the summit of Mount Washington in New Hampshire on Saturday, July 10....
State high point count: 2/50
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Jun 27, 2010 7:37 PM CDT up reply actions
o'tay
Unofficial Self Appointed President of the Player Formerly Known as Castro Blocker Fan Club
Bleed Castro Blue
I'm just teasing...
and a west coast snob to boot. :)
6,288 isn’t too shabby (especially when you walk the whole thing!)
You have to remember that we’re a bit spoiled out here. From my deck, I look on a place called Grizzly Peak, which at about 6,000 feet isn’t considered anything special. Behind my house are two 7,500 foot mountains that are only noteworthy (in a tall mountain sense) for having a ski resort.
Basically, the Cascade peaks overshadow (literally and figuratively) everything out here. Mt. Shasta is over 14,000 and only about 45 mins from me. Mt. McLoughlin is at about 10k and equally as close. We have the spine of dozens of 10,000-14,000ft Cascade volcanos running up California/Oregon/Washington/BC like a spine. (I always loved that in Portland, you have Mt. Hood (11,900), Mt. St. Helens (8,400), Mt. Adams (12,300), and Mt. Jefferson (10,500) all in view, with Hood and St. Helens basically sitting on top of the city.
Of course, Colorado and the Sierras in California/Nevada are all 14,000ft+, so I’m sure we Oregonians are weenies to them .:) So weenie-dom is all relative :)
That’s a cool goal that you have though to climb all the tallest points. Clearly something that not even a snob like me can scoff at! :)
by CubsWin!Oregon on Jun 27, 2010 7:47 PM CDT up reply actions
You want to know something?
I actually didn’t need that geography lesson. I’ve been to Oregon, I stayed just south of Bend.
I’ve seen the Three Sisters, Mount Hood, Mount Rainier, and seen Mount Adams and Mount St. Helens up close. Unfortunately, I’ve lost track of my pictures from this trip, so I can’t show you what I saw.
It was a ranch I stayed at which was near Mount Adams. The guys at the ranch were actually up on the mountain when St. Helens blew in 1980.
I’ll let you know when I’m going up Hood in Oregon and Rainier in Washington! :) And yes I know you were teasing, so we’re all good. :)
I didn't believe it last August, but it turns out that love survives.
Preparing to hike to the summit of Mount Washington in New Hampshire on Saturday, July 10....
State high point count: 2/50
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Jun 27, 2010 8:25 PM CDT up reply actions
Ah sorry!
I get talking about Oregon, and I can’t shut up. :) Didn’t mean to be condescending! And I wasn’t thinking you didn’t know all that. I just like talking about it. Whoops!
by CubsWin!Oregon on Jun 27, 2010 8:37 PM CDT up reply actions
Didn't view it as condescending.
The reason being that I had never mentioned going to Oregon on BCB before, so there was no way for you to know.
So it’s all good. :)
I didn't believe it last August, but it turns out that love survives.
Preparing to hike to the summit of Mount Washington in New Hampshire on Saturday, July 10....
State high point count: 2/50
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Jun 28, 2010 6:00 AM CDT up reply actions
Ok, you goaded me into it.
I live in the Denver suburbs, where we are always a mile high. ;-) Driving to work every day, I get to look at two, sometimes three (on a clear day), fourteener’s (14 thousand foot mountains).
My wife and I have a second home in the mountains that is at 8,400 feet.
I love Chicago (grew up in the area), and all the Chicago sports teams (except for one located on the south side of Chicago, who were involved in a scandal to throw the World Series a long time ago). But I’ve never regretted my decision to move to Colorado.
Now, if only the Cubs can sweep the Rockies when they come to town.
IF IT TAKES FOREVER!!
by Cubfansince1957 on Jun 28, 2010 12:13 AM CDT up reply actions
I live....
in Houston the highest point is 0 ft
"Did you ever wake up with an erection...and find yourself in a massage chair at Brookstone? And you yell to the sales clerk "I'll take it!"' Zach Galifinakis
My brother lives in the Houston area.
You have my condolences.
No offense meant. I’m sure there are nice places around there, but growing up in rural Illinois, the flatness and the humidity in the Houston area just kill me.
IF IT TAKES FOREVER!!
by Cubfansince1957 on Jun 29, 2010 11:22 PM CDT up reply actions
Thats actually impressive
Iowa’s high point is 1,670 ft…
Sipping the Kool-Aid since 1982 - Kinda
Currently 34,839 on the Season Ticket Wait List - Expected age of being #0: 119
Even Bob said today that
Colvin should be starting every day. Just hope Lou sees it that way. We shall see.
A lovely story:
One day, long, long ago, there lived a woman who didn't whine, nag or bitch. That would be me....
But that was a long time ago and it was just that one day.
The end
Colvin won't be starting every day
But that’s Lou’s logic.
RIP Ronnie James Dio (July 10, 1942 - May 16, 2010).
I think Lou is not making that decision
Piniella: "This is a tougher job than I thought it would be, I'm going to be honest with you."
What? Who do you think is then?
A lovely story:
One day, long, long ago, there lived a woman who didn't whine, nag or bitch. That would be me....
But that was a long time ago and it was just that one day.
The end
Perhaps the lineup fairy
is making that decision
If a quality pitching start is 3 runs and 6 innings, then a quality hitting day is 1 for 4.
LOL @ "lineup fairy" :-D
I'll go to my grave believing Armando Galarraga tossed the 21st perfect game in MLB history.
That was good.
Funny thing was in the article on cubs.com it stated that during the closed door session Lou had with his players about what they wanted to do to improve the team going forward, the only suggestion he noted coming from it was having the lineup posted before the next day…which he said he’d work on I think. Strange that’s the only thing Lou wanted to share. I sure hope there was a lot more said he wouldn’t repeat.
"The ones who want to achieve and win championships motivate themselves." - Da Coach
by Sandberg's evil twin on Jun 28, 2010 8:54 AM CDT up reply actions
+1
I didn't believe it last August, but it turns out that love survives.
Preparing to hike to the summit of Mount Washington in New Hampshire on Saturday, July 10....
State high point count: 2/50
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Jun 27, 2010 6:35 PM CDT up reply actions
Yes, he HAS to start everyday now.
And I don’t mean that in a Piniella sort of way. Colvin has to start at least 5 days a week for the foreseeable future. He’s earned it at this point.
Also, this was the first game of the series he started correct? Even though righties went Friday and Saturday.
However, I should note that lefties do tend to do better against Danks than righties do,
by jerry morales rules on Jun 27, 2010 6:43 PM CDT up reply actions
No, Colvin started on Friday, also.
Went 0-for-4, but then again the whole team looked awful on Friday.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
Man I wish I could say I believed that. Yes his performance screams for it.
You just never know with Lou this year. He’s got a mancrush on Nady that has defied salary or logic…guess its very fair to say I hope you are right.
"The ones who want to achieve and win championships motivate themselves." - Da Coach
by Sandberg's evil twin on Jun 27, 2010 11:49 PM CDT up reply actions
Ho hum
I’m not impressed. So Colvin has a big day. Big deal. He’ll be riding the pine for the next few days until Lou remembers he has a guy named Tyler Colvin on his team.
RIP Ronnie James Dio (July 10, 1942 - May 16, 2010).
Can't blame you. Sure am not excited to see the Cubs have a breakout day
Like they do every week or so. As long as we play most series with 3 games instead of one, this has just been the routine.lose one badly, come close and still lose the next, then win the final one.Frustrating.
"The ones who want to achieve and win championships motivate themselves." - Da Coach
by Sandberg's evil twin on Jun 27, 2010 11:51 PM CDT up reply actions
so youre not impressed
by Colvin’s good day because he will be riding the pine for a few days?
Sipping the Kool-Aid since 1982 - Kinda
Currently 34,839 on the Season Ticket Wait List - Expected age of being #0: 119
I think he meant he wasn't impressed because Colvin won't be used soon yes.
I sure can get that feeling when the Cubs can’t seem to win more than the last game of a series once in awhile. It does seem strange logic when you type it out lol.
"The ones who want to achieve and win championships motivate themselves." - Da Coach
by Sandberg's evil twin on Jun 28, 2010 8:40 AM CDT up reply actions
These recaps would be great if it werent for the constant second-guessing
or twisting of the knife. Sure Lou hasnt had the best of years, and sure this is your site and i dont have to read it, but we WON. Yes Marmol struggled, everyone does, yet there are always little additions to some of these recaps; ex: (wouldve been a perfect time for Schlitter).
Sorry, they just rub me the wrong way. It’s been hard enough to find positives in a year like this.
P.S. Flame away.
Rip me a new one. I can take it.
I’m not the manager, none of us are.
by kodypuckett23 on Jun 27, 2010 6:16 PM CDT up reply actions
In my opinion, it would have been a perfect time for Schlitter.
You can disagree. If you want a generic recap, go read the AP recap somewhere. I inject my opinions here. Many like them.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
Twiting of the knife?
Gimme a break.
Good recap, Al.
i second that
Unofficial Self Appointed President of the Player Formerly Known as Castro Blocker Fan Club
Bleed Castro Blue
I third that notion.
I didn't believe it last August, but it turns out that love survives.
Preparing to hike to the summit of Mount Washington in New Hampshire on Saturday, July 10....
State high point count: 2/50
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Jun 27, 2010 7:32 PM CDT up reply actions
I demand we poll the members
If a quality pitching start is 3 runs and 6 innings, then a quality hitting day is 1 for 4.
Overruled!
"The ones who want to achieve and win championships motivate themselves." - Da Coach
by Sandberg's evil twin on Jun 27, 2010 11:52 PM CDT up reply actions
I predict a great future for you
in politics.
If a quality pitching start is 3 runs and 6 innings, then a quality hitting day is 1 for 4.
As an evil maniacal overlord perhaps. Wait ...Illinois...hmm.
"The ones who want to achieve and win championships motivate themselves." - Da Coach
by Sandberg's evil twin on Jun 28, 2010 7:43 AM CDT up reply actions
I'll
giver you $50 for the senate seat!
Sipping the Kool-Aid since 1982 - Kinda
Currently 34,839 on the Season Ticket Wait List - Expected age of being #0: 119
I'm gonna get the right hair then....
seems like the Trump/Blago combover is the way to go….
"The ones who want to achieve and win championships motivate themselves." - Da Coach
by Sandberg's evil twin on Jun 28, 2010 8:35 AM CDT up reply actions
It would be wise
to ask Santo for advice.
If a quality pitching start is 3 runs and 6 innings, then a quality hitting day is 1 for 4.
lol
Sounds good…just don’t let him shave me, please!
"The ones who want to achieve and win championships motivate themselves." - Da Coach
by Sandberg's evil twin on Jun 28, 2010 3:30 PM CDT up reply actions
Al, did you happen to see
the incident between Upton and Longoria durng the Rays game this afternoon? I guess that type of stuff does happen on good teams. I’m not sayin, I’m just sayin.
BTW, damn the money owed to Dome and forget about Nady, Colvin needs to start everyday.
I didn't see it because I was hiking.
What happened?
I didn't believe it last August, but it turns out that love survives.
Preparing to hike to the summit of Mount Washington in New Hampshire on Saturday, July 10....
State high point count: 2/50
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Jun 27, 2010 6:24 PM CDT up reply actions
Interesting.
Note, they appear to have handled it like adults, as opposed to the Cubs’ problem here, where the player involved still has not spoken to his manager or GM or anyone on the club.
But he had dinner with the manager of the weekend’s opponent.
The circus goes on.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
Wow.
hadn’t heard he hasn’t spoken with anyone yet. Our new [redacted].
''This team is horse s----!'' - CZ
I can't get over the going to dinner with Ozzie thing.
I know it shouldn’t be a big deal… just seems like sort of a middle finger to the fans of BOTH teams from those guys… they can be friends all season, there are six nights a year they should NOT be eating together.
٩(͡๏̯͡๏)۶ Dum spiro spero... | Twitter: @andrewjstone.
by AndrewJStone on Jun 27, 2010 6:40 PM CDT up reply actions
Ozzie has claimed he could handle Zambrano
the Cubs should wrap Z in a blue blanket, put him in a baby basket and abandon him on Ozzie’s doorstep.
...

I didn't believe it last August, but it turns out that love survives.
Preparing to hike to the summit of Mount Washington in New Hampshire on Saturday, July 10....
State high point count: 2/50
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Jun 27, 2010 7:00 PM CDT up reply actions
Very nice!
"The ones who want to achieve and win championships motivate themselves." - Da Coach
by Sandberg's evil twin on Jun 27, 2010 11:56 PM CDT up reply actions
meh... it's just dinner - and one that was previously planned to boot.
Now if Z was calling Ozzie from the parking lot post-tantrum and saying “Hey, let’s do dinner and swap Lou and Kenny stories”… ok, that’d be a little different.
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
I personally think its hilarious.
And those 6 nights are some of the only nights all season where they’re guaranteed to be in the same city at the same time.
Also, I don’t care about the “crosstown rivilary”.
Things work out best for those that make the best out of the way things work out - Coach Wooden
I don't care about the crosstown rivalry, either.
Maybe it’s because we’re not from Chicago.
However, during the series against any opponent, it seems inappropriate.
by Shanghai Badger on Jun 27, 2010 9:44 PM CDT up reply actions
I would have felt the same way if he had planned this dinner ...
… during a time when the Cubs were NOT playing the Sox and Ozzie happened to be in town on an off day, then had the meltdown that afternoon.
Still inappropriate.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
Also true
I guess I was referring more to the fraternization thing. But yeah, he should probably kept a low profile for a few days.
by Shanghai Badger on Jun 27, 2010 9:51 PM CDT up reply actions
How about when Dome and Kawakami go out for dinner together during the season?
Is that inappropriate?
"Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have?" -Frank Chance
"If [Ruth] had [called his shot], I would have knocked him down with the next pitch." -Charlie Root
Only because they talk about me and I have no idea what they are saying.
"The ones who want to achieve and win championships motivate themselves." - Da Coach
by Sandberg's evil twin on Jun 28, 2010 8:42 AM CDT up reply actions
It would be if Dome had gone off on his teammates in a dugout tirade the same day as the dinner was planned.
I trust you can see the difference between the situations.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
Y'know what?
Other folks around here have stated my position on this (“It was dinner with a friend – you’re overreacting.”) perfectly clearly. I’m gonna let them argue it, as I don’t think someone else chiming in is going to change any minds.
That and I’m tired and NED-SVK just kicked off.
"Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have?" -Frank Chance
"If [Ruth] had [called his shot], I would have knocked him down with the next pitch." -Charlie Root
Who are you rooting for?
"The ones who want to achieve and win championships motivate themselves." - Da Coach
by Sandberg's evil twin on Jun 28, 2010 9:03 AM CDT up reply actions
I always root against the Dutch
For no good reason – I loved watching Van Basten and Gullit play, but the (unearned) attitude of superiority the Dutch bring to every international match rubs me the wrong way.
"Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have?" -Frank Chance
"If [Ruth] had [called his shot], I would have knocked him down with the next pitch." -Charlie Root
Well that's cool.
So I take it you’re rooting for Slovakia by default? Those are my ancestors. Along with part German.
"The ones who want to achieve and win championships motivate themselves." - Da Coach
by Sandberg's evil twin on Jun 28, 2010 9:27 AM CDT up reply actions
And a good chunk of my ancestors hail from Bohemia
Which is now in the Czech Republic. Got some German back there, as well, as if the last name wasn’t a dead giveaway.
"Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have?" -Frank Chance
"If [Ruth] had [called his shot], I would have knocked him down with the next pitch." -Charlie Root
I should say I am Bohemian.
My grandma tried to show me where exactly on a map in the old Czech map but I was never sure if she was certain. She did assure me I wasn’t a Serb or Croatian of which I’m grateful.
"The ones who want to achieve and win championships motivate themselves." - Da Coach
by Sandberg's evil twin on Jun 28, 2010 9:38 AM CDT up reply actions
My wife's family is Bohemian
on her dad’s side, Polish on her mother’s.
I'll go to my grave believing Armando Galarraga tossed the 21st perfect game in MLB history.
Prolly lotsa roast pork and dumplings in there
for dinner. Man growing up those Bohemian dinners are scary looking back…the anti Adkins diet for sure. Carbs galore. Hoska…coffee cake,man.
"The ones who want to achieve and win championships motivate themselves." - Da Coach
by Sandberg's evil twin on Jun 28, 2010 3:39 PM CDT up reply actions
It does taste better than Hunts brand.
That FYC by Heinz is what they server here in St. Louis. You end up getting used to just ignoring the waiters here when they want to put it on your burger after they see your son in a Soriano shirt.
by ASpecialGuestAppearance on Jun 28, 2010 12:32 PM CDT up reply actions
This is how i feel as well.
I’m not a Chicago native, so i’m not as big in to hating on the sox.
In general, you don’t eat dinner with the guy that beat you that afternoon – or the guy you’ve gotta go head to head with again tomorrow.
It’s like an unwritten rule, in my book.
٩(͡๏̯͡๏)۶ Dum spiro spero... | Twitter: @andrewjstone.
by AndrewJStone on Jun 27, 2010 10:51 PM CDT up reply actions
I understand
Well, no. I don’t really because I’m just not wired that way, so long as a player isn’t out killing people or doing things that would take him OFF the field… I don’t care at all what they’re doing while not on the field.
If the most troublesome thing a guy does off the field is go out to dinner with someone from the other team… yeah. I don’t care. At all. But I do know several fans who get VERY irritated by it.
Everyone has their “thing”. My standards are just pretty low.
Things work out best for those that make the best out of the way things work out - Coach Wooden
It is a competitive thing.
Much like some fans got on Barkeley for hanging with MJ during the championship where the Bulls beat the Suns. You want your players to hate the other team and want to beat them in every facet of the game, which in theory at least is harder to do when you are friends with them off the field. I don’t know that dinner was a big deal at all, it may have helped Z when he was completely irrational, but I do understand the reason people have a problem with it here, given Z insulting the team in the first place.
"The ones who want to achieve and win championships motivate themselves." - Da Coach
by Sandberg's evil twin on Jun 28, 2010 2:16 AM CDT up reply actions
Part of it is the perception that he is talking to Ozzie...
… and not his OWN manager. If it was “you are suspended, we are trading you, don’t show your face around here again”, its one thing.
He might be back, and it’d be in his best interest if his teammates thought he was as interested in what was going on with THEM instead of their crosstown rival.
٩(͡๏̯͡๏)۶ Dum spiro spero... | Twitter: @andrewjstone.
by AndrewJStone on Jun 28, 2010 10:35 AM CDT up reply actions
I couldn't care less with whom Zambrano
spends his “private” time. What amazes me, is that he would go out after being suspended as if nothing had occurred. If something like a workplace suspension would happen to me, there is no way I could just shrug it off.
Really makes me wonder where his head’s at.
"A waist is a terrible thing to mind." - Terry 'Fat Tub of Goo' Forster
by eths on Jun 28, 2010 1:55 AM CDT via mobile up reply actions
It's focused on himself like it has always been. Brooding about why everyone
is mean to him, not understanding people making a big deal of his meltdown when they always have tolerated it with a wink and a smile before.
"The ones who want to achieve and win championships motivate themselves." - Da Coach
by Sandberg's evil twin on Jun 28, 2010 2:19 AM CDT up reply actions
It is easier to deal with egos and attitudes
when the team is being somewhat sucessfull
Nothing sucks more than that moment during an argument when you realize you're wrong.
That's an understatement
Victory is the best deodorant, no?
"The ones who want to achieve and win championships motivate themselves." - Da Coach
by Sandberg's evil twin on Jun 28, 2010 1:33 PM CDT up reply actions
I guess someone needed help at how to channel their anger.
Wonder how Ozzie is going to act now if a call goes against the White Sox.
I didn't believe it last August, but it turns out that love survives.
Preparing to hike to the summit of Mount Washington in New Hampshire on Saturday, July 10....
State high point count: 2/50
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Jun 27, 2010 6:39 PM CDT up reply actions
you do know the dinner was planned in advance, don't you?
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
So?
It’s disrespectful. Find another night.
٩(͡๏̯͡๏)۶ Dum spiro spero... | Twitter: @andrewjstone.
by AndrewJStone on Jun 27, 2010 7:11 PM CDT up reply actions
personally i dont care if he had dinner with Ozzie after the game
in fact I think it was good for him, IMHO Ozzie is one of the few who might be able to help him
Unofficial Self Appointed President of the Player Formerly Known as Castro Blocker Fan Club
Bleed Castro Blue
Yes! this is what is funny about it. Ozzie will just listen to him and cluck
at how terribly misunderstood Z is…how a “real” team would handle his “enthusiasm”. There is not one thing that Ozzie could say that wouldn’t be incredibly biased, and that Ozzie would know better how to handle frustration is the ultimately laughable statement for anyone. “I’d like you showing your frustration and remind everyone you just want to win” Yeah Ozzie, you would Cause you’re a loaded gun yourself and an idiot with the media.
"The ones who want to achieve and win championships motivate themselves." - Da Coach
by Sandberg's evil twin on Jun 28, 2010 12:02 AM CDT up reply actions
I highly doubt they spoke of the incident at all
"Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have?" -Frank Chance
"If [Ruth] had [called his shot], I would have knocked him down with the next pitch." -Charlie Root
When you get indefinitely suspended for a game they both are in,
I’d think it would come up. But who knows anything lol.
"The ones who want to achieve and win championships motivate themselves." - Da Coach
by Sandberg's evil twin on Jun 28, 2010 8:44 AM CDT up reply actions
Considering Ozzie said right
after the game he thought Z’s rant was funny I doubt Ozzie had any words of wisdom for Z.
A lovely story:
One day, long, long ago, there lived a woman who didn't whine, nag or bitch. That would be me....
But that was a long time ago and it was just that one day.
The end
i believe that was more Ozzie playing the media than his actual feelings
he likes to joke and have fun with the media, since at times he can be a real jerk towards them
Unofficial Self Appointed President of the Player Formerly Known as Castro Blocker Fan Club
Bleed Castro Blue
Didn't seem to be
joking to me but I can’t stand him so maybe I am biased.
A lovely story:
One day, long, long ago, there lived a woman who didn't whine, nag or bitch. That would be me....
But that was a long time ago and it was just that one day.
The end
Of course you are...but anyone who has listened to his idiotic schtick
to the media would be. Yeah he can have perspective with this because it’s not his team. But Ozzie has no judgement…I don’t really have a problem with Z being able to vent with someone after being a pathetic child, but Ozzie is not the guy that’s going to lead him in a positive direction.
"The ones who want to achieve and win championships motivate themselves." - Da Coach
by Sandberg's evil twin on Jun 28, 2010 12:07 AM CDT up reply actions
ozzie is about as crazy as z
"Shut the f*** up" – Derrek Lee. Well said my man, well said.
by jesus christos on Jun 27, 2010 9:04 PM CDT up reply actions
To the team and organization as a whole.
The Cubs if not for a last chance opportunity were probably hoping that he would show some humility and not tramp around in his home city where he just embarrassed himself and his teammates.
by troutfishin on Jun 27, 2010 9:38 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
I had friends in high school who played for different teams than i did...
… and i think it was well understood among my teammates and i that those weren’t the guys i went out with the night before we played.
It isn’t a huge deal, especially considering the other things going on with Z, but it’s just… in bad taste.
٩(͡๏̯͡๏)۶ Dum spiro spero... | Twitter: @andrewjstone.
by AndrewJStone on Jun 27, 2010 10:53 PM CDT up reply actions
Yeah.
To me especially with the meltdown being so fresh, it is bad taste.
"The ones who want to achieve and win championships motivate themselves." - Da Coach
by Sandberg's evil twin on Jun 28, 2010 12:09 AM CDT up reply actions
ok so lets say
Lee and Ramirez are best buds…after this season Lee leaves Chicago and signs with the Marlins – so during each series are Lee and Ramirez – despite beings besties in Chicago – they are no longer allowed to hang out when that may be their only time during the season to see each other?
What we are talking about here is a little different than HS ball…when teenagers are involved everything hurts everyone’s feelings …in teh big leaguues two men from rival teams can go out and have dinner without hurting anyone. Who knows, Ozzie may have told Z that if he plays well for the rest of the season he can get him on the Sox and there is two birds dead with one stone.
Sipping the Kool-Aid since 1982 - Kinda
Currently 34,839 on the Season Ticket Wait List - Expected age of being #0: 119
The issue isn't having dinner with a rival.
I am sure this happens all the time. The issue is the timing of the dinner, having come after the dugout tirade and Z not contacting ANY of his teammates nor his manager or GM, but going and having a lovely time with Ozzie.
Under those unique circumstances Z should have cancelled. Had the tirade not occurred, I would not have a problem with doing this.
Look at Lou’s comments on this:
‘’Look, let me tell you this,’’ Piniella said. ‘’I haven’t seen my daughter since I left for spring training. That was mid-February. She got in Friday night from Tampa, and I got home to my apartment, and my wife and daughter wanted me to go and eat dinner with them.
‘’I was sick from what happened. And I was very tired, and I was embarrassed. They both went out and ate by themselves. I stayed home. That’s all I’ve got to say about that situation.’’
Lou isn’t always the most articulate guy, but he nails it here. Z should have been sick and embarrassed from what happened, but apparently, he wasn’t, and isn’t.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al Yellon on Jun 28, 2010 8:51 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Yup.
Thanks Al.
I wasn’t doing a good job of making my point – dinner with the other team the night before you play them is one thing, and not something i think a lot of competitive guys want their teammates doing.
In this case, as Z should have been groveling to his own team, making it clear how sorry he was, it was even worse.
٩(͡๏̯͡๏)۶ Dum spiro spero... | Twitter: @andrewjstone.
by AndrewJStone on Jun 28, 2010 10:37 AM CDT up reply actions
ok that I can respect
and agree with – Z should have either:
1. Held a press conference apologizing for his childish behaviour or
2. Stayed at home and sucked his thumb…
to imply that he should never have dinner with Ozzie when they can both plan around a common game I dont agree with.
Sipping the Kool-Aid since 1982 - Kinda
Currently 34,839 on the Season Ticket Wait List - Expected age of being #0: 119
Lou was spot on
That also might be what has passed Lou by, the players. I think what’s troubling him and some of us, is not the mouthing off but the utter disregard for fellow teammates.
It's like you get a little chubby every time i post!
٩(͡๏̯͡๏)۶ Dum spiro spero... | Twitter: @andrewjstone.
by AndrewJStone on Jun 27, 2010 10:53 PM CDT up reply actions
Don't get too cocky, there, Stone.
Az is sure to put me and ballhawk in our places, too.
by Shanghai Badger on Jun 27, 2010 11:05 PM CDT up reply actions
I'm just perplexed as to why he's perpetually trolling me.
If you don’t agree, don’t agree. Its fine. Let me know why. I can have a debate.
But if you don’t have anything to add other than “thats stupid”… well… why not just STFU?
٩(͡๏̯͡๏)۶ Dum spiro spero... | Twitter: @andrewjstone.
by AndrewJStone on Jun 28, 2010 10:39 AM CDT up reply actions
Good question
In the same vein, I suppose that I should stop responding to him . . . but I don’t see why he needs to be condescending and/or outright rude to everything that he disagrees with.
by Shanghai Badger on Jun 28, 2010 12:57 PM CDT up reply actions
wow that's childish.
"The ones who want to achieve and win championships motivate themselves." - Da Coach
by Sandberg's evil twin on Jun 28, 2010 12:11 AM CDT up reply actions
why do we care
who Zambrano has dinner with?
Jesus. Every time I come back to this site, I find another reason to stay away for another week. Dinner? Really? We care about this???
Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.
by drewishdrewid on Jun 27, 2010 7:34 PM CDT up reply actions 6 recs
Wrong.
Under the circumstances, a man who was truly apologetic would have called Ozzie and said, “You know what, maybe tonight isn’t such a great time. Let me have a raincheck.”
Or, Ozzie, being the grownup here, maybe should have said to Z, “You know, Carlos, it’s going to get out in the media that you’re out with me and since you haven’t talked to your own manager or GM, they might be pissed. Maybe let’s do it another time.”
It wasn’t the dumbest thing he’s ever done, but it was not smart.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
i understand your point but i disagree
when you have a bad day at work, you turn to family and friends. Ozzie is a friend of his, they had a meal, so be it. Just my opinion.
without that type of thing, many happy hours would be empty bars
Unofficial Self Appointed President of the Player Formerly Known as Castro Blocker Fan Club
Bleed Castro Blue
Most of us don't have jobs in the public eye
by Shanghai Badger on Jun 27, 2010 9:53 PM CDT up reply actions
agreed
and its our opinions about if it was right or wrong, none of us are wrong for that and each of us view it different, nothing wrong wtih that
Unofficial Self Appointed President of the Player Formerly Known as Castro Blocker Fan Club
Bleed Castro Blue
Maybe, maybe not - but again - it LOOKS bad.
For that reason alone, he would have been smarter to avoid it. I’m not saying that’s fair, but unfortunately, that’s life.
by Shanghai Badger on Jun 27, 2010 9:58 PM CDT up reply actions
So does a man walking around San Antonio in a dress
But what came next only added another layer to Ozzy’s legend.
RIP Ronnie James Dio (July 10, 1942 - May 16, 2010).
Cubs are using this dinner with Ozzie...
… as a means to further turn the tide of public opinion against Zambrano. Many Cubs fans hate the Sox and hate Guillen. Dinner with the enemy? A perfect way to grease the skids on Zambrano.
Just curious, how often do players go out “after hours” with the teams they are playing against?
"In time you can turn these obsessions into careers...Hurry Down Doomsday the bugs are taking over." - Elvis Costello
I think it occurs more than you think it does.
MLB players have many friends on other teams, due to the movement around baseball. Look at any field before a game starts; you’ll often see players from the other teams yakking it up with each other. This is supposed to be against the rules, but they do it anyway.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
That's certainly interesting.
Dinner with the enemy being a good way to “grease the skids” and overcome hate. you seem to be working here to stir things up. Z whining and complaining about how unfair everything is to the master of idiocy may help Z, but not because he is the enemy. How exactly does schmoozing with the enemy in particular help?
"The ones who want to achieve and win championships motivate themselves." - Da Coach
by Sandberg's evil twin on Jun 28, 2010 7:50 AM CDT up reply actions
Ozzie is a grownup? HAHAAHA
When did THAT happen?
"The ones who want to achieve and win championships motivate themselves." - Da Coach
by Sandberg's evil twin on Jun 28, 2010 12:12 AM CDT up reply actions
ty
Unofficial Self Appointed President of the Player Formerly Known as Castro Blocker Fan Club
Bleed Castro Blue
This gets a rec.
I didn't believe it last August, but it turns out that love survives.
Preparing to hike to the summit of Mount Washington in New Hampshire on Saturday, July 10....
State high point count: 2/50
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Jun 27, 2010 7:37 PM CDT up reply actions
No, when the arguably indefensible players that he defended turned out to be irrefutably indefensible.
by Shanghai Badger on Jun 27, 2010 9:21 PM CDT up reply actions
the sanctimoniousness
is truly touching.
It was dinner. It means precisely nothing. Y’all should get over yourselves.
Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.
by drewishdrewid on Jun 27, 2010 9:49 PM CDT up reply actions
as should you
Formerly known as BleedsbluinMi.
"You ain't a beauty, but hey you're alright. And that's alright with me" - The Boss
See you next week!
"The ones who want to achieve and win championships motivate themselves." - Da Coach
by Sandberg's evil twin on Jun 28, 2010 12:14 AM CDT up reply actions
oh, please.
Z has been an asset to this team for years. But hell, let’s release him because of who he ate dinner with.
Unbelievable.
Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.
by drewishdrewid on Jun 27, 2010 9:49 PM CDT up reply actions
You really think this is all about the dinner?
by Shanghai Badger on Jun 27, 2010 9:50 PM CDT up reply actions
I think that
all the stupid complaints about the dinner are just that — stupid.
You wanna pile on Z for being frustrated with the situation and reacting poorly? Whatever. At least it involves the darn game.
Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.
by drewishdrewid on Jun 27, 2010 9:51 PM CDT up reply actions
See, I'm not piling on him. If you read what I wrote about it, I think it's a minor infraction at worst
But it exhibited poor judgement.
And, I’ve gotta tell you – you do indeed sound angry.
by Shanghai Badger on Jun 27, 2010 9:52 PM CDT up reply actions
And this is where I tell you
that it’s not all about you.
Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.
by drewishdrewid on Jun 27, 2010 9:52 PM CDT up reply actions
Fair enough
And I’m sorry for jumping in to the fray. But the dinner really isn’t why people are calling for Zambrano to be jettisoned.
by Shanghai Badger on Jun 27, 2010 9:54 PM CDT up reply actions
It definitely has been all about you here though.
"The ones who want to achieve and win championships motivate themselves." - Da Coach
by Sandberg's evil twin on Jun 28, 2010 12:15 AM CDT up reply actions
this had nothing to do
with who he had dinner with…..it had the appearance that he gives 2 shits about anything. It’s all about Z and always has been. I’m sure he still doesn’t think he did anything wrong.
This was the straw that broke the camel’s back. He’s been having blow-ups for years. No player should say what he did to his team mates. Z took absolutely NO responsibility for his crappy pitching on Friday and shifted the blame to others.
He’s been stinking up the joint for last couple of years. He needs to get his act together and grow the hell up.
For all I care, he can take his pitching and stink up another team’s joint. Maybe Ozzie wants him, but I doubt Kenny is that stupid to take on a PITA!
by Swoosie on Jun 28, 2010 12:45 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
who is angry?
I just find it to be ridiculous that when the team is playing this poorly, and the players are this unhappy, we give a flying crap about who they’re eating DINNER with.
Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.
by drewishdrewid on Jun 27, 2010 9:48 PM CDT up reply actions
Thats right! Z does not need to bother calling the Cubs, he can go out with the other teams manager for dinner all he wants!
Why would he feel like he needs reach out to the Cubs or act in a mature way? He makes a lot of money! He does not need to act normal!
very good point.
Added to his meltdown, added to Z’s inability to admit he was a petulant child, its a minor insult. That dinner is an unimportant thing just makes me wonder with the little time we have given to it overall in the STFU-gate why drew felt the need to yell at everyone over it. I think he does have some anger that needs to be released.
"The ones who want to achieve and win championships motivate themselves." - Da Coach
by Sandberg's evil twin on Jun 28, 2010 12:19 AM CDT up reply actions
if its so insignificant
why are you making such a big deal about people caring about it?
"Shut the f*** up" – Derrek Lee. Well said my man, well said.
by jesus christos on Jun 27, 2010 10:11 PM CDT up reply actions
Exactly my thought.
Probably just needed a fix of telling everyone they are wrong. See him next week.
"The ones who want to achieve and win championships motivate themselves." - Da Coach
by Sandberg's evil twin on Jun 28, 2010 12:20 AM CDT up reply actions
You are, seemingly.
Maybe I’ve forgotten about you, but my memory of you is the one who is always, almost to the point of annoying, overly positive about everything Cubs.
Drew is back!
I loved seeing Bradley play this week, didn’t you?
Did you get those Kool Aid packets I sent you?
Go Cubbies!!!!!!
The Lord of Zambrano Apologists...........
………..chimes in. Instead of dinner perhaps he should have been in the batting cages swinging as hard as possible. Or maybe he should have been running sprints down the base paths.
When this guy’s an ass you still lack the credibility to call him out. Unfortunate, but not surprising.
"I feel sorry for people who don't drink. When they wake up in the morning, that's as good as they're going to feel all day." ~ Frank Sinatra
It sounds very much like drew's defense of [name redacted].
Let’s hope the Cubs can get the same value in return for the latest malcontent that they got for the last one.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
Oh please Drew.
Overreact much? I’m usually on your side here, and have gone to bat several times for your defense of Cubs players, so i’m not sure the level of indignation is warranted.
As i’ve said, it isn’t a huge deal, but it does put a perception out there that Z shouldn’t be putting out right now. These are heated rivals, and Z is ostracized enough from this team without having dinner with the guy the rest of them have to compete against the next day.
I can’t imagine his teammates appreciate it – would you contend that teammate perception is something Z shouldn’t be worried about at this point?
٩(͡๏̯͡๏)۶ Dum spiro spero... | Twitter: @andrewjstone.
by AndrewJStone on Jun 28, 2010 10:56 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
It's a symptom more than the disease
But he really didn’t do himself any favors by not rescheduling. I realize that times have changed and players fraternize a lot more; I don’t have a problem with that.
While I don’t see anything sinister about Zambrano dining with Guillen, frankly, it looks stupid.
by Shanghai Badger on Jun 27, 2010 8:40 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
I think it's the whole concept of perception becoming reality
If it looks like their might be impropriety, even if there isn’t, probably best not to do it.
by Shanghai Badger on Jun 27, 2010 9:47 PM CDT up reply actions
Well stated
And given some of your professional work, IIRC, you would be an expert.
by Shanghai Badger on Jun 27, 2010 9:48 PM CDT up reply actions
Do I remember correctly? You have some psychology in your background, right, Em?
by Shanghai Badger on Jun 27, 2010 10:00 PM CDT up reply actions
Hmm...What were you working on last summer, then?
Or was it in 2008?
I’m so confused…could be the beer.
by Shanghai Badger on Jun 27, 2010 10:29 PM CDT up reply actions
In all fairness
The two situations are different. From what I gather, this is the first incident involving either Upton or Longoria. I don’t blame Cub Mgmt for not contacting Z They may want hands off for a while.
Perhaps Z could have reached out to them though.
by jerry morales rules on Jun 27, 2010 7:42 PM CDT up reply actions
The two situations
ARE different. Zambrano has been suspended. Upton has not. An apology to the team is a condition of Z’s reinstatement, so essentially the ball is in his court.
However, this is not the first incident involving Upton. Madden wanted to ship him to AAA when he failed to run out a ground ball last year. His lack of hustle has been a chronic issue.
Also, Zambrano has a history of losing control of his temper from time to time.
Upton does not have this history, and even when he loses control, it’s not at the level of control loss that Zambrano displays.
I didn't believe it last August, but it turns out that love survives.
Preparing to hike to the summit of Mount Washington in New Hampshire on Saturday, July 10....
State high point count: 2/50
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Jun 27, 2010 8:27 PM CDT up reply actions
That's up to the union
Making reinstatement conditional upon apology probably won’t fly with the union.
RIP Ronnie James Dio (July 10, 1942 - May 16, 2010).
Not if it's a paid suspension, it isn't.
by Shanghai Badger on Jun 27, 2010 11:06 PM CDT up reply actions
Right.
I think what the Cubs are doing now is seeing how they can keep Z off the field while not playing with only 24 players.
I’m not sure why they don’t do what Seattle did with MB — put him on the restricted list and pay him. I believe you can replace players on the restricted list.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
I would prefer they just put him on the fired list
Nothing sucks more than that moment during an argument when you realize you're wrong.
They are different, and I think mgmt was smart for leaving him alone a few days.
He’s a child and needed a little time to calm down and get himself together like any immature person. That he hasn’t yet and instead blamed everyone else a la Bradley isn’t surprising, is predictable, and just shows there’s a lot in there for any team to fix.
"The ones who want to achieve and win championships motivate themselves." - Da Coach
by Sandberg's evil twin on Jun 28, 2010 12:24 AM CDT up reply actions
We have no way of knowing
if he spoke to Lou who forgot the call. However, why should anyone care that Z and Guillen kept a preplanned dinner? The damage is already done and perhaps an uninvolved adult might offer Carlos some reasonable advice.
If a quality pitching start is 3 runs and 6 innings, then a quality hitting day is 1 for 4.
Oh, please.
You’re accusing Lou of forgetting a call from his supposed “ace” pitcher that he’s probably been waiting for? Nonsense.
Also, it’s the perception of the dinner. If Z wanted advice from Ozzie, a phone call could have sufficed. But as we have seen, it appears Z isn’t good with phone calls.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
Did you really think I was serious
about Lou forgetting a call from Z? Shame.
But I am serious about the childishness that suggests he shouldn’t go to dinner with Guillen. Regardless of Z’s behavior, it serves no purpose suggesting the dinner was off limits and more than Ricketts trip to Africa. Z isn’t a child who can be grounded because he was a bad boy. And, if communication was so vital, why didn’t someone from the organization contact him. Instead all hands were to busy trying to paint Carlos as public enemy #1.
If a quality pitching start is 3 runs and 6 innings, then a quality hitting day is 1 for 4.
It's the perception.
… that he cared more about having dinner with a friend who happens to be the manager of another team (never mind that it was that day’s opponent) than to call his OWN manager and GM and discuss the issue.
That doesn’t look good to me. And no, it’s not up to the organization to call him. Z caused this situation. It’s up to him.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
Who is the grown up here?
If Lou is the manager, then he should be managing. Instead, as usual, he throws up his hands and says “What can I do”.
Everyone around the situation knows Z is a flake. So why do we expect him to act the way we want him to act? That’s plain foolish. Lou even said he didn’t know if communication was helpful at this time. Then he trotted out the poor old me story about skipping dinner with his daughter.
This whole situation was brought about by the endless pandering to a #1 pitcher who isn’t #1 any more. The Cubs need to stop being the alpha male in this confrontation and get this done.
If a quality pitching start is 3 runs and 6 innings, then a quality hitting day is 1 for 4.
hmm...The Cubs sure did pander to him and allow his behavior to go unchecked.
And yes, of course they shouldn’t be surprised he did something that was very close to something he did before…the Barrett fight.
Are you saying here that Lou was immature…or being foolish by pointing out Z’s temper tantrum and dinner with Ozzie?
"The ones who want to achieve and win championships motivate themselves." - Da Coach
by Sandberg's evil twin on Jun 28, 2010 3:02 PM CDT up reply actions
As I see it
Lou is following a pattern. He’s playing the helpless victim. He can’t fix the team’s losing ways. He can’t fix Z. He can’t go to dinner with his daughter. None of it is his fault but he’s taking the heat.
Attention Lou. That’s the job description.
If a quality pitching start is 3 runs and 6 innings, then a quality hitting day is 1 for 4.
Meh.
I can see why you think that. He hasn’t taken control of the clubhouse this season well at all. I do think he handled this situation about as well as he could, but it doesn’t help the rest of the season before this happened. Taking the team meeting afterwards for suggestions was something he needed to do long before as sit players with an attitude or performance problem. Strikes me as too little, too late…but still worth doing.
"The ones who want to achieve and win championships motivate themselves." - Da Coach
by Sandberg's evil twin on Jun 28, 2010 3:28 PM CDT up reply actions
In my opinion
he held the meeting for the sole purpose of appearing to be the good guy. Don’t tell me that 10 minutes was anything more than an overall PR campaign being spun by the team to cut their losses.
Anyone with any experience knows that a good meeting is planned so people can formulate their ideas and present their suggestions. This had all the appearance of holding a meeting in the elevator on the way to the strip bar.
If a quality pitching start is 3 runs and 6 innings, then a quality hitting day is 1 for 4.
Univolved yes, venting to someone is good too.
Calling Ozzie an adult…that just makes me laugh.
"The ones who want to achieve and win championships motivate themselves." - Da Coach
by Sandberg's evil twin on Jun 28, 2010 12:26 AM CDT up reply actions
While his stlyle is unique
he has had success and his players enjoy playing for him. Personally I’d rather have him managing us than the adult who currently leading our merry band of underachievers.
If a quality pitching start is 3 runs and 6 innings, then a quality hitting day is 1 for 4.
No thanks. I'll take a pass on both, thanks.
I don’t want to deal with Lou’s lack of enthusiasm or Ozzie’s idiocy. Unique is far too generous a term. Their one WS win has led Williams to give a free reign to do or say anything Ozzie wants in the name of getting to another. I don’t want either one. Lou seemed a great choice when hired, managed our team to two division championships, then lost direction when his players did. This year has definitely shown he isn’t the right man for the job anymore and I eager to see what the short list is to replace him.
"The ones who want to achieve and win championships motivate themselves." - Da Coach
by Sandberg's evil twin on Jun 28, 2010 7:36 AM CDT up reply actions
Call me. Call me.
If a quality pitching start is 3 runs and 6 innings, then a quality hitting day is 1 for 4.
As manager?
Sounds good right now. I’d have gone with a beer vendor somedays so you’d at least be an improvement over that lol
"The ones who want to achieve and win championships motivate themselves." - Da Coach
by Sandberg's evil twin on Jun 28, 2010 3:04 PM CDT up reply actions
I've got a couple of bars
so I could handle that also. Just call me. I promise better results. And I come with a money back guarantee.
If a quality pitching start is 3 runs and 6 innings, then a quality hitting day is 1 for 4.
Hmm....you sound reasonable. Perhaps you'd be better
suited to GM and have Worf as manager. I bet even Z would have a hard time taking on a dinosaur…and you can decide how to discipline him.
"The ones who want to achieve and win championships motivate themselves." - Da Coach
by Sandberg's evil twin on Jun 28, 2010 3:24 PM CDT up reply actions
Let's be honest
It’s the money back guarantee that sold you.
If a quality pitching start is 3 runs and 6 innings, then a quality hitting day is 1 for 4.
It's a joke is what it is
embarrassing and insulting to all of us fans, the team, everyone involved. Nobody has ever been able to get through to z and nobody ever will. And now he’s what? Untouchable? I hope he enjoyed his dinner Saturday.
Ship him to Omar Minaya and see if he can work with him (if possible).
Sweeter words have rarely been spoken: "...and the cardinals are down to their final out."
by scottsdalecubs on Jun 27, 2010 8:17 PM CDT up reply actions
well the actual dugout exchange appeared to be no better / no worse than the Z Lee
but the post-incident matters seem to be moving along much smoother than what’s going on here with the Cubs.
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
Wrong
the Tampa Bay incident is a team leader calling out a player who has a history of not hustling.
The Cubs situation is the exact reverse, a player with a history of implosions who is not performing to expectations getting in the face of a team leader who is one of the most respected players in the game.
If you can’t see the very real and significant difference, you are missing the obvious.
Well lucky for us little people, we always have you around, Captain Obvious,
to point out when we’re wrong and how utterly and totally blind we are. Thank you, kind sir.
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
oh I would, but he amuses me so...
He’s kinda like Worf without all the fur. ;-)
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
While I certainly don't agree with the tone that he used on you
The differences that he pointed out are valid.
by Shanghai Badger on Jun 27, 2010 8:41 PM CDT up reply actions
How so? The only real difference I see, based on limited video and recap...
…is Upton did not come into the dugout foaming at the mouth like Z. After that point though, events seem to be in parallel. Team leaders calling out team troublemakers, followed by team troublemakers getting in face of team leaders, followed by rest of team intervening.
Longoria called out Upton for his actions on the field. Lee called out Z for his actions in the dugout. Are they really that different?
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
Fair enough
I guess it depends on what you look at as the starting point – if you look at Lee trying to settle down Zambrano as the starting point, you’re 100% correct. If you look at it as Zambrano bitching at Lee, that’s different.
Actually, now that I think about it, you’re more correct than incorrect. Zambrano’s initial fit is analogous to a player not hustling.
Ok, I retract that part. As for his condescending tone, well, that’s his SOP.
by Shanghai Badger on Jun 27, 2010 9:19 PM CDT up reply actions
So a player who has a history of not hustling
was called out by a team leader for not hustling, which is the “exact reverse” of a guy who has a history of freaking out being told to knock it off by a team leader for freaking out? Guess I’m missing something.
The only difference I can see is Z went after everyone including Z on his own
And Upton went after the guy for not hustling first. Other than that there isn’t any difference.
"The ones who want to achieve and win championships motivate themselves." - Da Coach
by Sandberg's evil twin on Jun 28, 2010 12:36 AM CDT up reply actions
Oops Longoria went after him first my bad lol.
"The ones who want to achieve and win championships motivate themselves." - Da Coach
by Sandberg's evil twin on Jun 28, 2010 12:37 AM CDT up reply actions
I still can't see why everything thinks
Z was going after anyone specifically until the end.
Looked to me like he was just yelling. Emotional yelling guys… yell. Usually they let him beat stuff and then go down the tunnel and then yell and leave him alone.
Meh. I just can’t work up ANY kind of upset feeling over this. Off all the stupid things I’ve watched Z do… this was probably the least “suspension worthy”.
But, I’m obviously in the minority here.
SIgh. And I thought this place would be fun and light after the Sox & Bradley series were done.
Things work out best for those that make the best out of the way things work out - Coach Wooden
Why is this a response to me?
did you just want a place to put that higher than the bottom or anything close to your topic? I said in that post he was going after everyone. Guess you just needed a place to sigh in.
"The ones who want to achieve and win championships motivate themselves." - Da Coach
by Sandberg's evil twin on Jun 28, 2010 2:25 AM CDT up reply actions
Mostly it just hit me when I read your comment
To me: it looked like a guy who is known as a yeller who came into the dugout… yelling. Whether it was at anyone or not, it didn’t seem any different than SOP with Z.
The guy yells at himself on the mound, mutters to himself in the batters box, grumbles on the bases, and occassionally beats the shit out of catchers, gatorade coolers and dispensers or walls.
Other than Lee’s reaction, it felt positively “normal” to me. And I still not sure why everyone else is so angsty about it. So yes, I did just need a place to “sigh”.
Things work out best for those that make the best out of the way things work out - Coach Wooden
Thing is, he ISN'T yelling at himself
He’s yelling at his team mates. Showing them up. And has done so for years. Bruce Miles, along with other writers, has acknowledged this and the fact that the players are tired of it.
by Shanghai Badger on Jun 28, 2010 3:05 PM CDT up reply actions
A 300 pound man comes stalking close to you yelling and screaming
spitting mad how everyone screwed up but himself and….it’s normal? Something the team should just ignore as he elbows his way by? I don’t think you would be thinking the same thing if you were in that dugout, He was yelling at the guys a few inches away, not beating up inanimate objects. It’s sure a lot less volatile watching it from your TV then if you’re standing next to him, knowing he’s just waiting to explode while he calls out everyone but himself.
"The ones who want to achieve and win championships motivate themselves." - Da Coach
by Sandberg's evil twin on Jun 28, 2010 3:13 PM CDT up reply actions
You have a very valid point here that the Cubs tolerated him
him screaming and yelling, even beating up Barrett by trading Barrett. They certainly share the blame here. But that doesn’t make it acceptable at all…it isn’t normal and after Bradley mgmt definitely needs a crash course on how to deal with a selfish, immature and volitile player such as Z.
"The ones who want to achieve and win championships motivate themselves." - Da Coach
by Sandberg's evil twin on Jun 28, 2010 3:19 PM CDT up reply actions
How do you know he was calling out
“everyone but himself”?
For Z, its very much standard operating procedure. Nothing new there. He does things like that ALL THE TIME. And has for years. But THIS is the time to get all up in his face about it?
Whatever. Everyone’s at fault here. Z for being volatile (like normal) Lou for being disinterested (like normal) and Lee for being confrontational (abnormal). Oh and mgmt for not RECONGIZING this and making an effort to do something.
Lou apparently likes fiery players, but has no interest in giving them lines. Lee is the quiet leader-by-example type… until thats something you’d actually WANT. and Z is a yeller. Who came in YELLING and upset. Who needs to find a better channel for it, sure… but he’s nearly 30. I doubt thats gonna happen magically.
Things work out best for those that make the best out of the way things work out - Coach Wooden
How do you know he was calling out "everyone but himself"?
Well, the eyewitness accounts are all that we have to go by. And they all corroborate this.
For Z, its very much standard operating procedure. Nothing new there. He does things like that ALL THE TIME. And has for years.
And they should have stopped it a long time ago.
But THIS is the time to get all up in his face about it?
See above. But the players’ reactions imply that he stepped over a line this time.
Lee for being confrontational
We don’t know that. Seems like he was standing up for himself; I think he’s entitled to do so.
by Shanghai Badger on Jun 28, 2010 3:38 PM CDT up reply actions
Lee objected by saying what Z was yelling going by was bs.
Z kept ranting and turned around and walked right into Lee’s face, confronting Lee. I don’t understand why people blame the person receiving an attack from a bully as anything but standing up for yourself. I do blame mgmt for continually letting Z’s behavior go for sure.
"The ones who want to achieve and win championships motivate themselves." - Da Coach
by Sandberg's evil twin on Jun 28, 2010 4:08 PM CDT up reply actions
But if you ask me, I'd say 100% of the blame here goes to those hideous Rays uniforms...
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
Upton's apology was pretty pathetic but
a gapper was hit Upton basically did a slow jog to the ball and created a triple out what could have been a single if he had simply hustled and cut the ball off. Longoria waited until they got back in the dugout and as a leader does he confronted Upton for his lazy effort. Upton had to be restrained by several teammates.
Correction
The ball in the gap was clearly a double that Upton’s lack of hustle turned into a triple. No way would Upton have held Ryal to a single no matter how hard he ran.
Yeah he does need to start everyday.
You can get Dome in there by spot starting him in CF and right and switching Colvin to LF for Sori.
"The ones who want to achieve and win championships motivate themselves." - Da Coach
by Sandberg's evil twin on Jun 27, 2010 11:55 PM CDT up reply actions
Nice win today...
Ramirez had some good at bats, Sori looks like he’s locked in at the plate again, and Colvin continues to far exceed my expectations of him. Hopefully we can win a few in a row and hope at least one of the teams ahead of us loses a few in a row.
Personally, I'd much rather have a nice long win streak
That happens, things will take care of themselves.
Though I would not be against what you want.
I didn't believe it last August, but it turns out that love survives.
Preparing to hike to the summit of Mount Washington in New Hampshire on Saturday, July 10....
State high point count: 2/50
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Jun 27, 2010 6:29 PM CDT up reply actions
I too thought Aram looked much better today and yesterday,
and I think DLee is having better approaches at the plate. I would just like to see us go for a month with Colvin, Lee, Aram, Byrd, Soriano all consistently hot. I think that’s what we all thought would happen this year.
This is only the beginning....Lou Pinella end of '07 season and Chicago Transit Authority (the band when they were really good).
With this team all I'm hoping for right now is to win the first game of a series for once.
It’s very hard for me to even think of a winning streak until they can accomplish that.
"The ones who want to achieve and win championships motivate themselves." - Da Coach
by Sandberg's evil twin on Jun 28, 2010 12:39 AM CDT up reply actions
Which makes one wonder.....
what might have been if the DL stint was a few weeks ago as many BCB’ers recommended…
The best defense is a good offense.....Lou Pinella...still hasn't managed the Cubs to a post season win. D. Lee still doesn't have a post seasson RBI for Cubs...ditto for Soriano
"It's so simple, it's unbelievable," manager Lou Piniella said. "When you score runs, you win."
Dusty Baker is the only manager in the last 100+ years to lead the Cubs to a post season series win....
"Take the hands off the clock, we're gong to be here a while"
Got that right.
I’ve been impressed by his eye at the plate and contact Rami made the last few days. I can hope it means he his healthier now…though his last two ABs were not impressive. I still think a few more days off on the DL could have helped him, seeing that protective wrist support on when he ran the bases kind of scared me even though it could just be a precaution. I think they at least need to spell him more often than before.
"The ones who want to achieve and win championships motivate themselves." - Da Coach
by Sandberg's evil twin on Jun 28, 2010 12:42 AM CDT up reply actions
Things almost seemed to like, go our way today...
"That pitch wasn’t down and in, that pitch was down and up." Tim McCarver
by wrigleyrocker12 on Jun 27, 2010 6:33 PM CDT reply actions
Gotta win a series opener
After dropping 9 straight the odds should favor us Monday vs. Pitt. If they could win like 7 of 10 and get within 5 of .500 they could be within 5 or 6 of division lead as Cards, once 10+ over .500, are just treading water with Cincy.
As much as
I have dogged Lou for the last two years, Colvin is getting more AB’s, 63 AB’s in June compared to 27 in May. Lou needed a GPS to find him in May.
A good win, still hoping for a win streak because I am still not convinced that the Reds and Cards are that good.
You and I travel to the beat of a different drum.
I'll go to my grave believing Armando Galarraga tossed the 21st perfect game in MLB history.
Yeah, but can Colvin get a hit off of
a combination of Randy Johnson, Sandy Koufax, Steve Carlton, Warren Spahn, and Whitey Ford? Then, we’ll really, really, know if he can hit left-handed pitching. Until then, at-bats against any other left-handed pitcher are pure speculation.
"They come to see me strike out, hit a home run, or run into a fence. I try to accommodate them at least one way every game." - Gorman Thomas
Colvin
after today is 11 for 34 against Lefties, not so bad. Small sample, but it warrants more playing time against them.
I agree
I have been amazed at the number of people who have stated that Colvin can’t hit lefties when he only had 18 ABs vs. Lefties this year. I’ve read that Covin is “regressing already” and “never faced any good lefties in AA”. And I remember a Paul Sullivan column in spring training that got people’s ire here because he said Colvin was “Blocked”. All hogwash.
Colvin needs to play so the Cubs know what they have in him. He is not exactly the same player he was in the minors.
"They come to see me strike out, hit a home run, or run into a fence. I try to accommodate them at least one way every game." - Gorman Thomas
by RiskyBusiness on Jun 28, 2010 12:20 AM CDT up reply actions
Don't forget Dempster,
he gutted out a nice performance today with what? 122 pitches? I didn’t think he would last to the 5th early on.
This is only the beginning....Lou Pinella end of '07 season and Chicago Transit Authority (the band when they were really good).
Tyler, Tyler, Tyler!
He should start everyday after today’s performance. I don’t give a crap if Dome and Nady see the field much. Great effort from Demp; the team obviously needed the lift.
"Is there any truth to the rumor that the Bears gave up their first-round pick in 2011 for the decals?" - Someone registered as the DailyNorseman at PFT suggesting the Bears gave up picks in order to get Gaines Adams tribute decals. Stay classy Minnesota fans!
great game TC
So if Wells looks bad a few more games does this mean Cashner can get a shot soon at starting?
"I don't know what the big deal about Crackerjack is"
by theGraceyslumpbuster on Jun 27, 2010 8:17 PM CDT via mobile reply actions
Loved how BB kept sticking it to Lou
going on and on about how good Colvin is and how he has show he CAN hit lefties. Good job Colvin and BB.
Ha! The Pirates!
/Here comes the sweep…
"The riches of the game are in the thrills, not the money." --Ernie Banks
by dtpollitt on Jun 27, 2010 8:50 PM CDT via mobile reply actions
Good recap, Al
Didn’t see the game, glad Colvin had a great game.
As much as I was for Fukudome coming to the Cubs, it looks like his time is over. I don’t know if it is simply the pitchers in MLB are that much better than the ones in Japan or some other reason he just hasn’t excelled here. Maybe he never adjusted to the USA.
It also shows that good hitters hit lefty and righty pitchers. Surely, there will be the handful of pitchers that Colvin will never be able to hit, just like any hitter, there are some guys you have no success on. But I hope this proves to Lou that TC should play every day.
As much as I still feel the Cubs will not sniff the postseason this year, it’s not out of reach if they can get on a hot streak and parlay that into some series wins the remainder of the season. A lot of us thought that this team would win more than last year and if they can, it may be enough in this crap hole of a division.
"WGN, Channel 9 Cubs Baseball, Excitingly, Importantly, Dramatically Yours." - Jack Brickhouse
Agree. Fukudome's time has passed.
I want to see Colvin play every day if only to find out if he’s the real deal or just a flash in the pan. The Cubs have nothing to lose at this point.
I’m not a violent man but I swear if Lou starts sitting Colvin again then I’M going to start attacking Gatorade coolers.
by bluekoolaide on Jun 27, 2010 9:52 PM CDT up reply actions
AFAIC....
You hit the nail on the head….
Put good hitters in there and quit worrying so much about “what side” they hit from…….
The best defense is a good offense.....Lou Pinella...still hasn't managed the Cubs to a post season win. D. Lee still doesn't have a post seasson RBI for Cubs...ditto for Soriano
"It's so simple, it's unbelievable," manager Lou Piniella said. "When you score runs, you win."
Dusty Baker is the only manager in the last 100+ years to lead the Cubs to a post season series win....
"Take the hands off the clock, we're gong to be here a while"
misquote
The best defense is a good offense.....Lou Pinella...still hasn't managed the Cubs to a post season win. D. Lee still doesn't have a post seasson RBI for Cubs...ditto for Soriano
"It's so simple, it's unbelievable," manager Lou Piniella said. "When you score runs, you win."
Dusty Baker is the only manager in the last 100+ years to lead the Cubs to a post season series win....
"Take the hands off the clock, we're gong to be here a while"
Didn't get to watch most of the game.
I was watching the bottom of the first when a sudden feeling of extreme sleepiness came over me. Last thing I remember is the white sox having runners on 2nd and 3rd. Atta boy Colvin, Lee, Soto, Soriano, and everyone else.
"A dream you dream alone is only a dream. A dream you dream together is reality." John Lennon
When is someone going to make the FanPost calling for the team to trade Colvin now that his value is high?
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Jun 27, 2010 10:35 PM CDT reply actions
Seems perfect timing after the one for Marmol needing to be traded for the same thing.
Let’s get rid of everyone that performs well! Byrd, Colvin, Marmol, you’re all gone! That’s the way to get a good team next year…keep all the underperformers and trade the few players on the team even if their salaries make them a great value! prospects always pan out! man….
"The ones who want to achieve and win championships motivate themselves." - Da Coach
by Sandberg's evil twin on Jun 28, 2010 12:48 AM CDT up reply actions
OT:
48 hrs ago: sportsbook.com had LeBron at +125 to sign w/ Bulls. Bosh was +300. Now? They’re both -500.
by AzCubfan24 on Jun 27, 2010 10:58 PM CDT via mobile reply actions
Apparently conventional wisdom says LeBron doesn't want to play with Wade, so...
…if the Bulls really can clear enough cap space to sign 2 max FAs, is Bosh really the 3rd best out there (behind LBJ and Wade)? Or is he just the best fit for the Bulls team?
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
NYT says
that an “unnamed executive” says that Bosh/James to the Bulls is a near “done deal”.
Things work out best for those that make the best out of the way things work out - Coach Wooden
happy dance time

"Shut the f*** up" – Derrek Lee. Well said my man, well said.
by jesus christos on Jun 28, 2010 1:28 AM CDT up reply actions
Thanks for the post, Allie.
Though I’m wanting it so much I won’t do any happy dance or get hugely excited about it until it’s more real than an anonymous executive speculating it’s close or a done deal. I don’t wanna get let down again by a proposed trade the Bulls make. I sure do hope it does get done though.
"The ones who want to achieve and win championships motivate themselves." - Da Coach
by Sandberg's evil twin on Jun 28, 2010 2:31 AM CDT up reply actions
great win
why cant we see this kind of play every day.this team has the talent just not the fire.now we play the last place pirates and then the 1st place reds.
All we need is a 9 game winning streak and we're back at .500 and right in this thing!
Man I had a hard time typing that whole sentence without laughing uncontrollably. I’d take a win in the first game for once as a start.
"The ones who want to achieve and win championships motivate themselves." - Da Coach
by Sandberg's evil twin on Jun 28, 2010 8:37 AM CDT up reply actions
I'm guessing a large number of Sox fans were saying exactly the same thing two weeks ago.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
That's certainly true.
I didn’t mean it was impossible, I just have had my hopes dashed all season. I’m always hopeful the Cubs will.
"The ones who want to achieve and win championships motivate themselves." - Da Coach
by Sandberg's evil twin on Jun 28, 2010 9:05 AM CDT up reply actions
I have been
a big fan of Dome’s. But at this point I gotta admit until he shows different Colvin should be starting every day. That being said to name him a “cornerstone” already is jumping the gun a litttle. This team is soooo frustrating you get days like yesterday when you see what “should” be. Then you get the rest of the season so far..uuunngh! Maybe they can ride a little momentum into the Pirates series.
I think I will write a script
based on the Louis Malle film: “My Dinner With Ozzie”
“Two countrymen from Venezuela discuss baseball, anger, anger, women, and money. And, anger.”
Seeing a guy like Colvin
helps makes me forget the myriad of Cubs issues.
Just win the next game...!

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