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Cubs Find New And Creative Way To Lose; Pirates Snap 17-Game Road Loss Streak At Wrigley

The Cubs honored Ron Santo last night for the 50th anniversary of his first game, June 26, 1960, at their first home game since the anniversary of that date.

Santo walked out to the mound, stood unaided by his cane, and threw a one-bounce first pitch to Ryan Dempster -- nicely done, and applauded warmly.

As you know, I don't often care for Ron's broadcasting style (although I was a big fan of his as a player, and know he lives and dies with the team like the rest of us do). But last night, he did more than just sum up what it feels like to be a fan of this mystifying 2010 Cubs team. Listening to the "highlights" of the Cubs' 2-1 loss to the Pirates driving home, I heard WGN play the call of a key moment: Ryan Theriot's at-bat with runners on first and third with one out and the score tied in the bottom of the seventh.

When Theriot hit into a first-pitch, inning-ending double play, Santo cried out, "Aw, gee WHIZ!" And you knew he wanted to say something stronger, and you could have forgiven him if he'd have uttered a profane expletive on the air.

First thought: this team is going to be the end of poor Ron. No wonder he's had to take time off this season. Second thought: I'm very, very happy that this is likely to be the last season in a Cubs uniform for Ryan Theriot.

Consider the situation again. Tie game, one out, lead run on third base, rookie third baseman for the opposition who's playing in his 12th major league game and who has already made a throwing error in this one. The situation absolutely, positively screamed out for a squeeze bunt, or at the very least, taking a couple of pitches. But no, Theriot had to be "aggressive".

Thus ended the Pirates' 17-game road losing streak. They came into Wrigley 5-24 in their last 29 games. "Embarrassing" doesn't even begin to describe this one.

Star-divide

Randy Wells threw pretty well, although he ran up a high pitch count early with four walks and had to depart after six innings. Meanwhile, Paul Maholm of the Pirates looked like he could have thrown 18 innings last night, mowing down Cubs hitters quickly after the Cubs had taken a 1-0 lead in the second inning. Maholm threw only 101 pitches in eight innings and likely might have stayed in the game if the Bucs hadn't scored the lead run in the top of the ninth.

One more thing I heard during the postgame wrap showed how out of touch Lou is. I tweeted this about halfway through last night's game:

Wind shift @ Wrigley. Wind now blowing off lake, temp dropped about 10 degrees. #brrrr #Cubs

It had started as a very pleasant, though mostly cloudy, evening with the game time temperature at 76 degrees. The wind was blowing lightly from the west-northwest. When the wind shifted, it was so strong that the team flags on the scoreboard were all blowing straight out, to the point where you could read all the team names on the flags, something fairly unusual.

No one was going to hit the ball out of the park after that. Yet, when Lou was asked during the postgame news conference why he pinch-hit Xavier Nady for Starlin Castro, Lou said, "I wanted to get a veteran up there who might be able to hit the ball out of the park."

Lou, c'mon. You didn't feel that wind? You didn't feel cooler? This is your fourth year managing here. I think I would have batted for Castro, too, but not with Nady -- instead, with Mike Fontenot, who might have been able to hit a line drive into the gap. Lou appears to have almost forgotten that Fontenot is on the team; LBR has started only six games this month. Granted, he's not hitting (3-for-25 in June), but how can anyone hit well with almost no playing time?

John Grabow hurt his knee again while pitching in the seventh; at least this time, the Cubs are going to send him straight to the DL and, according to Lou, replace him with another LHP. There are three LHP on the Iowa roster: J.R. Mathes, Scott Maine and John Gaub. Of those three, only Gaub is on the 40-man roster, which is currently full -- thus, I'd guess it'll be him.

Finally, let's talk a bit about the move of Carlos Zambrano to the restricted list, effective today, in the wake of Friday's dugout tirade.

Kevin Millar, who was with the Cubs in spring training and knows the players, now works as an analyst for MLB Network. Last night, during the network's "MLB Tonight" show, he made these comments on the situation:

I spoke with him the other day, after the games on Saturday and the main thing he wanted to get across was that at times guys like Carlos, they don’t know how to handle or how to fire up a team. …There wasn’t one play that made him mad, it was just the whole team and the way they’ve been playing made him mad and then he was frustrated, he said, after his inning and came in and was basically trying to pump all the guys up.

...He told me a week before that he wanted to get Carlos Silva to do something to the team because he’s doing well and Carlos Zambrano said that he knew [Silva] wasn’t the right guy to do this at this time because of his struggles. … I told him straight up, I said... 'You can’t say the team’s playing like girls … You can’t say that this whole team that’s not clicking for some reason' or 'We’re not playing hard' because he’s a big part of that problem. He understood that ... and that’s what he was trying to get across. It wasn’t a personal thing with Derrek Lee - obviously Derrek Lee took it personal, and [Zambrano] felt terrible and we obviously see what happened in the dugout. We see the way he’s reacted and this is the second time. [In 2007], he went out and fought Michael Barrett and beat up Michael Barrett, well then they end up trading Michael Barrett thinking that, ‘Ok, we’ll get rid of him but something has to be done.’ Now him [Zambrano] going to anger management counseling…I think this is the new fad that we’re trying to show that at least there’s an effort there.

That was basically his view, that he shouldn’t have done it, he wasn’t the right guy to do it, he wanted Carlos Silva to do it last week. It wasn’t one play, it wasn’t the Derrek Lee play that caused this whole scene. He ran in the dugout and was yelling at the whole group.

I hope Zambrano does get the help he is now mandated to receive before he returns to the team. If all this is true, this is even more bizarre. He wanted Silva to do that? I do understand the idea of firing up a team -- but not the way Z did it, not in the dugout in front of everyone and TV cameras. I suspect "firing-up" talks happen all the time with teams, and there's nothing wrong with doing that, even emotionally, but these are done while they are in the clubhouse and out of public view. Especially in the case of Zambrano, who has had public meltdowns like this on a number of occasions, it's neither the right individual nor the right place for it.

I also wonder why he's talking to someone from the MLB Network and not his teammates nor his manager nor his GM.

It's July 1 on Thursday, beginning the time the "players for sale" signs begin hanging on a lot of franchise doors. The Cubs may do this -- but really, with a couple of exceptions, who do they have to sell off this team that couldn't beat a club that has been outscored by almost 200 runs already?

Don't worry, that's in many ways a rhetorical question. July 1 also begins the NBA free-agent signing period. I heard someone in the bleachers say, on walking out last night, "Maybe the Bulls will sign LeBron this week, that'd take my mind off this."

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They still stink

RIP Ronnie James Dio (July 10, 1942 - May 16, 2010).

by Ace Venom on Jun 29, 2010 7:34 AM CDT reply actions  

I must be the only person in the country who liked Part 2

Amy Adams was a big reason why!

I'll go to my grave believing Armando Galarraga tossed the 21st perfect game in MLB history.

by EalyEagle on Jun 29, 2010 8:27 AM CDT up reply actions  

I enjoyed it

But I also saw it at a drive in, where the atmosphere is half the time and if the movie sucks it’s still manageable. Hey, that sounds like Wrigley and the Cubs!

by Danwood on Jun 29, 2010 8:34 AM CDT up reply actions  

The "don't cross this line" scene

between Ben Stiller and Hank Azaria had me in stitches, as did a similar scene between Stiller and Jonah Hill. Thomas Lennon and Robert Ben Garant wrote the script, and those two scenes played a lot like something they’d do on “Reno 911”

I'll go to my grave believing Armando Galarraga tossed the 21st perfect game in MLB history.

by EalyEagle on Jun 29, 2010 8:40 AM CDT up reply actions  

you're not, I liked it too

"Well-behaved women seldom make History"---Laurel Thatcher Ulrich

by cooliogirl47 on Jun 29, 2010 8:45 AM CDT up reply actions  

Thanks Coolio

The self-styled purveyors of taste that is IMdB summarily trashed it.

I'll go to my grave believing Armando Galarraga tossed the 21st perfect game in MLB history.

by EalyEagle on Jun 29, 2010 8:46 AM CDT up reply actions  

Got that right. that was very fun to hear her enthusiasm and spunk as Amelia.

"The ones who want to achieve and win championships motivate themselves." - Da Coach

by Sandberg's evil twin on Jun 29, 2010 8:49 AM CDT up reply actions  

Crimey, we're jimmy-jacked!

"They say that money doesn't buy happiness...but it DOES by Cub tickets. You ever see a sad person with Cub tickets?"

by redivycubs on Jun 29, 2010 8:32 AM CDT up reply actions  

Amy Ryan...

drool….

www.facebook.com/craighudak

by Craig in South Bend on Jun 29, 2010 9:16 AM CDT up reply actions  

Why not?

She’s been drool worthy.

www.facebook.com/craighudak

by Craig in South Bend on Jun 29, 2010 9:23 AM CDT up reply actions  

meg ryan?

when has meg ryan EVER been droolworthy? dont make me revoke your mancard…

by andyross1219 on Jun 29, 2010 10:11 AM CDT up reply actions  

OT: Used to Love Meg Ryan (Past Tense)


The hairstyle gives away the time period of the picture. It’s been a lot of years since she looked liked that. I was a fan of the big hair way back before the Internet got big.

Back in the late 1980’s and early 1990’s, I loved looking at her, but she simply looks awful now after bad Botox and plastic surgery.

"The big possums walk late." - Harry Caray

by memphiscub on Jun 29, 2010 11:26 AM CDT up reply actions  

Given the fact no one can hit with RISP

You would think with speed on the base paths Lou would have thought to have Theriot lay down a bunt, especially knowing this team’s lack of quality hits with runners on. Even if Theriot been called on for a squeeze he probably would have completely missed the bunt and Castro would have been tagged out at home. Ho hum

"I don't know what the big deal about Crackerjack is"

by theGraceyslumpbuster on Jun 29, 2010 7:47 AM CDT reply actions  

Even if that had happened...

… two out, Colvin up next. Instead, inning over.

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al Yellon on Jun 29, 2010 7:49 AM CDT up reply actions  

Umm Maholm had Colvin's number last night

Al. He flew out weakly and hit little dinker groundouts.

"I don't know what the big deal about Crackerjack is"

by theGraceyslumpbuster on Jun 29, 2010 7:50 AM CDT up reply actions  

True.

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al Yellon on Jun 29, 2010 8:03 AM CDT up reply actions  

Right at the Centerfielder?

with the wind howling in? He also struckout in the 8th against Maholm.

"I don't know what the big deal about Crackerjack is"

by theGraceyslumpbuster on Jun 29, 2010 8:58 AM CDT up reply actions  

Actually,

let’s try this again..

he hit it to the gap RCF gap. The wind knocked it down, and the RF made the play. Normal conditions it MIGHT have been a hit….

by VFTB Matt on Jun 29, 2010 9:14 AM CDT up reply actions  

Exactamundo.

Len and Bob commented that Jaramillo was probably very happy about an out like that.

Certified Twitterfiend.

by daver on Jun 29, 2010 9:15 AM CDT up reply actions  

I stand corrected!

At least he didn’t look absolutely lost at the plate then, eh?

"I don't know what the big deal about Crackerjack is"

by theGraceyslumpbuster on Jun 29, 2010 9:16 AM CDT up reply actions  

I think he hangs in there pretty well against lefties.

He may never hit them really well, but he’s shown he can hit them hard.

Certified Twitterfiend.

by daver on Jun 29, 2010 9:20 AM CDT up reply actions  

I think he did great the game before

and I think he can hit them. I was just trying to point out to Al that it wasn’t like the next hitter Colvin was tearing the cover off the ball.

"I don't know what the big deal about Crackerjack is"

by theGraceyslumpbuster on Jun 29, 2010 9:21 AM CDT up reply actions  

A lot of contact that is made could become hits depending on certain situations

This is why it’s so hard to actually get a hit.

RIP Ronnie James Dio (July 10, 1942 - May 16, 2010).

by Ace Venom on Jun 29, 2010 9:16 AM CDT up reply actions  

Okay I apologize. He weakly groundout twice, lined out, and K'd against

Malholm. I was just trying to state as to why if the squeeze failed it wouldn’t be guaranteed that he would have gotten a hit with the runner on second. Especially since Theriot would have still been at the plate.

"I don't know what the big deal about Crackerjack is"

by theGraceyslumpbuster on Jun 29, 2010 9:22 AM CDT up reply actions  

No, it was a line drive into the gap in the fifth inning...

…that was caught by right fielder Lasting Milledge.

Certified Twitterfiend.

by daver on Jun 29, 2010 9:15 AM CDT up reply actions  

True again.

I still think it would have been a better idea for him to bunt than to be “aggressive”.

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al Yellon on Jun 29, 2010 8:04 AM CDT up reply actions  

It would have been better

for him to just stand with the bat on his shoulder and watch three strikes go by…

by JimAnchower on Jun 29, 2010 8:06 AM CDT up reply actions  

I completely agree.

It just seems that Lou found it to be illogical. Which is illogical.

"I don't know what the big deal about Crackerjack is"

by theGraceyslumpbuster on Jun 29, 2010 8:12 AM CDT up reply actions  

Why focus on Theriot?

The hatred for Ryan Theriot on this site is reaching obnoxious levels. He isn’t a very good ballplayer, but he also plays a position where you don’t expect a ton of offense. Theriot is probably playing to about 85% of his potential. If the rest of the team (Lee, Ramirez, Zambrano) were playing to 85% of their potential nobody would focus on Theriot because this team would be winning. Hell, Theriot is about the only Cub that has hit with RISP all season (.323 w/ a .383 OBP).

by JSB on Jun 29, 2010 7:50 AM CDT via mobile reply actions   1 recs

I am going to agree here.

"I don't know what the big deal about Crackerjack is"

by theGraceyslumpbuster on Jun 29, 2010 7:53 AM CDT up reply actions  

He plays a position where you don’t expect a ton of offense

so that excuses his poor decision making when he’s batting? That excuses his decision to swing at the first pitch after the previous hitter has been walked on 4 pitches, for example? Or telling the press that he doesn’t look to walk, even though he’s frequently the lead off batter?
No. I can’t accept that.

It never gets to be easy

by chitownhawkeye on Jun 29, 2010 8:01 AM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

He isn't that good

We all know that. In fact I probably knew that before most here as I said be wasn’t an everyday big league shortstop at the beginning of 2007. But of all the players on our team he receives about 70% of the ire. If another player GIDP in the same situation the entire focus of the recap wouldn’t have been on the mistake. I get it, he is the whipping boy right now. But, look around the NL and you aren’t going to find a ton of 2B that are raking. Theriot isn’t killing this team, he is merely a role player. What’s killing this team is the complete ineptitude of it’s “star” players. This season’s failures can be placed on the shoulders of Lee, Ramirez and Zambrano.

by JSB on Jun 29, 2010 8:20 AM CDT via mobile up reply actions   1 recs

I've been bringing this up

It’s no use.

RIP Ronnie James Dio (July 10, 1942 - May 16, 2010).

by Ace Venom on Jun 29, 2010 8:23 AM CDT up reply actions  

The hatred

runs rampant for Theriot.

No one wants to mention that our new golden boy Colvin gave up a run with his defense and was not looking good at the plate. Or that Lee K’d with Colvin on second. Or the fact that Theriot got himself into scoring position with a steal. They bitch if he doesn’t get on as a lead off hitter, he had two hits.

"I don't know what the big deal about Crackerjack is"

by theGraceyslumpbuster on Jun 29, 2010 8:29 AM CDT up reply actions  

That's what irritates me

The double standard where the players that are currently “favored” can do no wrong and those that are in the doghouse blow every game. I love Tyler Colvin, but if Soriano had allowed either run-scoring hits to drop the way Colvin did that would have been the focus of the game recap. Just as if Castro had made the same mistake Theriot did, it probably wouldn’t have been mentioned. But, I guess this fits in with the all-or-nothing approach on this site. No room for shades of gray here.

by JSB on Jun 29, 2010 8:33 AM CDT via mobile up reply actions   1 recs

Colvin should not have been in CF to end the game.

But at least he’s producing and has been all season when he’s gotten the chances. Theriot has been making terrible decisions since May at the plate. His approach to hitting is getting worse with time.

"You've got to get your damn shirts rolled up and go out and kick somebody's ass. That's what you've got to do. Period." -- Lou Piniella

by tripdenten on Jun 29, 2010 8:37 AM CDT up reply actions  

True

but at least Theriot isn’t making as much as D.Lee and looking like complete trash.

"I don't know what the big deal about Crackerjack is"

by theGraceyslumpbuster on Jun 29, 2010 8:39 AM CDT up reply actions  

I don't even want to get started on Lee,

there are so many things about him that upset me, my head will explode.

"You've got to get your damn shirts rolled up and go out and kick somebody's ass. That's what you've got to do. Period." -- Lou Piniella

by tripdenten on Jun 29, 2010 8:41 AM CDT up reply actions  

Not a huge Lee fan to begin with

That’s not exactly a popular point of view around here.

RIP Ronnie James Dio (July 10, 1942 - May 16, 2010).

by Ace Venom on Jun 29, 2010 9:20 AM CDT up reply actions  

I don't really care if its popular or not,

I’m honestly not a huge fan of his. He’s certainly not the biggest problem with this team right now, just one of many. I’ll be happy if he improves his defense and finishes around .265 with 22 HR and 80RBI, all are do-able, and for some reason I feel as if he plays his best when the Cubs are out of contention.

"You've got to get your damn shirts rolled up and go out and kick somebody's ass. That's what you've got to do. Period." -- Lou Piniella

by tripdenten on Jun 29, 2010 9:58 AM CDT up reply actions  

He does

2006 was an exception because he broke his wrist. 2007 was a respectable season, but his best years in a Cubs uniform were 2005 and 2009. He just looks to be at the end of his career now.

RIP Ronnie James Dio (July 10, 1942 - May 16, 2010).

by Ace Venom on Jun 29, 2010 10:18 AM CDT up reply actions  

Theriot had two hits last night

Nobody else on the Cubs had more than one hit. Earlier this season Theriot went 5 for 6 and wasn’t mentioned in Al’s game summary. There is a definite anti-Theriot bias here.

by AlSpangler on Jun 29, 2010 10:08 AM CDT up reply actions  

Rookies are given more leeway

That said, Castro has been called out multiple times for his lack of defense on stolen bases. If he’s still doing this in 2-3 years there will be much more negativity.

by Danwood on Jun 29, 2010 8:37 AM CDT up reply actions  

I think he is trying to point out

that when Theriot does something bad, it gets blown out of proportion as to where if Fontenot does something bad it gets bitched about for a little then goes by the wayside.

"I don't know what the big deal about Crackerjack is"

by theGraceyslumpbuster on Jun 29, 2010 8:40 AM CDT up reply actions  

Called up too early

They’ve probably ruined his development already.

RIP Ronnie James Dio (July 10, 1942 - May 16, 2010).

by Ace Venom on Jun 29, 2010 9:20 AM CDT up reply actions  

it will only ruin his development

if they thrust him into the leadoff position, stop playing him every day, or send him back and forth between Chicago, Des Moines and Tenn

Sipping the Kool-Aid since 1982 - Kinda
Currently 34,839 on the Season Ticket Wait List - Expected age of being #0: 119

by hansman1982 on Jun 29, 2010 2:12 PM CDT up reply actions  

You have a point

but also take into account you are comparing a rookie to two established players. I give Colvin and Castro much more leeway with mistakes, physical and mental, than the veterans.

by TC Cubby on Jun 29, 2010 8:38 AM CDT up reply actions  

Then Lee's head should be rolling.

"I don't know what the big deal about Crackerjack is"

by theGraceyslumpbuster on Jun 29, 2010 8:39 AM CDT up reply actions  

Don't worry, he'll be gone after this season

I agree with TC. Since Colvin and Castro have more upside than Theriot, I’ll cut them more slack. What I hope happens is that the new regime is one that will continue to teach and refine young players after they arrive from the minors.

I'll go to my grave believing Armando Galarraga tossed the 21st perfect game in MLB history.

by EalyEagle on Jun 29, 2010 8:43 AM CDT up reply actions  

I agree with him too

But why not call Lee out when he had a man sitting on 2nd and he promptly Ks. I don’t care if it was the 1st inning, this team is so stingy at scoring runs that AB WAS HUGE for aleader like Lee is supposed to be.

"I don't know what the big deal about Crackerjack is"

by theGraceyslumpbuster on Jun 29, 2010 8:45 AM CDT up reply actions  

Lee-dership

I’m apt to believe all the stuff people have said about Derrek Lee being a solid clubhouse presence and pretty much a stand-up guy. And I believe he cares about his performance. So I got to wondering if at some point he’d ever go up to Lou and say, “Skip, you know I’m no quitter but I’m sucking out there, so get Nady in there and see what he can do full time.”

I'll go to my grave believing Armando Galarraga tossed the 21st perfect game in MLB history.

by EalyEagle on Jun 29, 2010 8:51 AM CDT up reply actions  

So what you are saying is

Well he sucks and is a solid presence but since we have no options I don’t give a damn that he looks like crap and I will continue to nag on a player like Theriot? Great basis.

"I don't know what the big deal about Crackerjack is"

by theGraceyslumpbuster on Jun 29, 2010 8:53 AM CDT up reply actions  

Actually

I was speculating if there may come a point where the “be a warrior, quitting is for losers” part of Lee’s game – and really any baseball player’s game – will be trumped by his own realization that he’s killing the team batting in the middle of the order.

My quarrel with Theriot is that he’s a dumb player that gets by a lot of the time on instinct. But I agree that the Cubs are filled with players like Theriot whose holes in their game keep them from getting as much as they can out of their raw talent. Definitely the problems are more than just one guy, and on that we are in complete agreement.

I'll go to my grave believing Armando Galarraga tossed the 21st perfect game in MLB history.

by EalyEagle on Jun 29, 2010 9:01 AM CDT up reply actions  

I just got a little sick earlier when you said give Nday playing time

It is sad that they are this pathetic. It isn’t even like Hoffpauir is worth being called up for a go at it at first. They are just not looking good at that position now and for the future. I don’t think we have one solid prospect at first.

I agree with you on this, they are fulle of holes. TWHS

"I don't know what the big deal about Crackerjack is"

by theGraceyslumpbuster on Jun 29, 2010 9:05 AM CDT up reply actions  

Sorry if I pushed a button

mentioning Nady. I coulda-woulda-shoulda said someone else to make the same point.

I’d almost like for there to be a “deprogramming” once players get to the major leagues, where they dump the whole “be a hero, never quit” macho stuff and develop a professional attitude of acknowledging when they’re sucking and taking themselves out of the lineup for someone less sucky.

I'll go to my grave believing Armando Galarraga tossed the 21st perfect game in MLB history.

by EalyEagle on Jun 29, 2010 9:21 AM CDT up reply actions  

I agree.

Do your job, if not we will get someone else who can. Unfortunately we can’t as of now.

"I don't know what the big deal about Crackerjack is"

by theGraceyslumpbuster on Jun 29, 2010 9:24 AM CDT up reply actions  

that would be nice

but these guys dont get to the major leagues by taking a break when they are down…quite the opposite, when they are going through a slump they want to play more to play out of it…I would be worried if Lee did ask to be taken out as, to me at least, that would show that Lee no longer has the competative fire.

Sipping the Kool-Aid since 1982 - Kinda
Currently 34,839 on the Season Ticket Wait List - Expected age of being #0: 119

by hansman1982 on Jun 29, 2010 2:15 PM CDT up reply actions  

True enough

You’ve probably figured out I never played competitive athletics in school, much less a pro league. I’m approaching this from a pure business perspective, whereby someone who is underperforming and hurting the company should go to his/her supervisor and tell the boss to get someone in there who can do better.

I'll go to my grave believing Armando Galarraga tossed the 21st perfect game in MLB history.

by EalyEagle on Jun 29, 2010 2:26 PM CDT up reply actions  

I see

I have never played above high school ball but am highly competative and I dont give up easily – especially when the chips are down and so I cant imagine how these guys can manage their competativeness

Sipping the Kool-Aid since 1982 - Kinda
Currently 34,839 on the Season Ticket Wait List - Expected age of being #0: 119

by hansman1982 on Jun 29, 2010 3:00 PM CDT up reply actions  

I agree

And I don’t want to see Theriot on the team next year. But Al has it in his head that Theriot is killing the team, so whenever he makes a mistake it figures prominently in the recap as why the Cubs lost along with another call to get rid of him. Sort of like how last year was laid at the feet of a certain right-fielder.

by JSB on Jun 29, 2010 8:43 AM CDT via mobile up reply actions  

Thsi wasn't a Theriot loss this was

a Team loss. Including the manager. There seems to always be a scapegoat.

"I don't know what the big deal about Crackerjack is"

by theGraceyslumpbuster on Jun 29, 2010 8:48 AM CDT up reply actions  

Though I totally believe games are lost as a team

I also believe there are key points where the wind completely leaves the sails. Lee’s K, Theriot’s GIDP, Sori’s and Soto’s awful at-bats in the 9th are examples. So sometimes a loss can revolve around one play in particular. The beauty of this team is that you generally get 4-5 different choices for Goat of the Game!

I'll go to my grave believing Armando Galarraga tossed the 21st perfect game in MLB history.

by EalyEagle on Jun 29, 2010 8:53 AM CDT up reply actions  

They just aren't playing the game of baseball right

It is utterly atrocious right now. Shades of 1997.

"I don't know what the big deal about Crackerjack is"

by theGraceyslumpbuster on Jun 29, 2010 8:54 AM CDT up reply actions  

Seems that way

If Theriot has to go, I hope he ends up somewhere good.

RIP Ronnie James Dio (July 10, 1942 - May 16, 2010).

by Ace Venom on Jun 29, 2010 9:13 AM CDT up reply actions  

It borders on Groupthink

It’s not that Ryan Theriot’s play doesn’t deserve criticism. You could say every player in baseball deserves criticism. Cubs fans are so hungry for a championship that it seems like no player is safe from scapegoating. I know I wouldn’t want to play for the Cubs if I were a player.

RIP Ronnie James Dio (July 10, 1942 - May 16, 2010).

by Ace Venom on Jun 29, 2010 8:54 AM CDT up reply actions  

But how do guys in New York, Boston, and Philly do it?

Talk about demanding fans – they demand your head on a platter if you’re not doing the job.

Ultimately talent will win the day. And that’s more than just physical talent – it’s having a head for the game and making smart plays. Cubs need to start developing and acquiring more complete players in that vein. Then I think you’ll see the scapegoating dissipate.

I'll go to my grave believing Armando Galarraga tossed the 21st perfect game in MLB history.

by EalyEagle on Jun 29, 2010 9:07 AM CDT up reply actions  

Boston broke its "curse"

And Philly managed to win two World Series titles in the last thirty years after nearly a century of being unable to do it. The Mets aren’t quite thirty years removed from their last title and the Yankees are the Yankees. They can throw money at the best players out there to try to fix their problems.

Let’s face it. The Cubs are a complete joke of a franchise. They haven’t had a shot at a title since 1945 and they haven’t won it all since 1908. That is the longest drought in not just North American professional sports, but all professional sports. The Red Sox won it all in 2004 and the White Sox won it all in 2005. Meanwhile, the Cubs have shown complete ineptitude at every turn to make it to the big stage. It’s possible to build a winner in the North Side, but you can’t do it with the culture they have now. But I don’t think the Cubs will ever get back because the pressure is simply too great and they’ve cracked every time.

RIP Ronnie James Dio (July 10, 1942 - May 16, 2010).

by Ace Venom on Jun 29, 2010 9:11 AM CDT up reply actions  

I totally get your despair

But for me, before I believe the Cubs will never evr win a championship, I want to see them try one last thing. And that’s screwing the formula of trying to win now with lightning in a bottle and going back to what Dallas Green was doing in the 80s (and what the Twins have been doing the past ten years) – building from within and creating a minor league development system known for producing star impact players.

It’ll take a couple years. It’ll piss of the foot stampers who don’t understand how you build strong, consistent winners. It’ll taste bad for a year or two initially. But history has shown this to be as near a foolproof a way as any.

Build as topflight an organization as possible, and the winning will come as sure as eggs is eggs.

I'll go to my grave believing Armando Galarraga tossed the 21st perfect game in MLB history.

by EalyEagle on Jun 29, 2010 9:30 AM CDT up reply actions  

That's the way to do it...

…and it is now up to Ricketts to put the right baseball leader in place.

The question is this; does he have the knowledge to pick the right guy? I would imagine he will be consulting with some outside the organization (I only hope) to make the right choice.

"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel

by MPH73 on Jun 29, 2010 10:03 AM CDT up reply actions  

A small nitpick

I hesitate to say anything because we need another Dallas Green desperately. Best thing that has happened to this team in 75 years. However he also had a lot of veterans that played savvy baseball. Moreland, Dernier, Mathews, Cey, and of course Sutcliffe. Jay Johnstone was even on the 84 Cubs. We definitely need to emphasize the farm system but getting some veterans that provide leadership by playing a team game instead of a stats game would be great for this team.

"All of us are in the gutter...some of us are looking at the stars." Oscar Wilde

by Tingham on Jun 29, 2010 11:01 AM CDT up reply actions  

Totally agree Tingham

I don’t mean to slight Dernier, Moreland, Davis, etc.. And in a way, maybe that’s been Hendry’s plan – get veterans in here to win until the farm kicks in. Unfortunately many of those veterans have either petered out (Lee, ARam, Theriot) or really weren’t worth the money/years they got (Fukudome, Zambrano).

I'll go to my grave believing Armando Galarraga tossed the 21st perfect game in MLB history.

by EalyEagle on Jun 29, 2010 11:24 AM CDT up reply actions  

Those veterans...

…was part of the beauty of what Dallas Green did so quickly, and the only way to quickly make a crap team a contender, is to be a master of how to put a roster together.

He did that, and he also started to build a strong infrastructure that I really believe would have yielded positive results if he would have stayed another 5-8 years.

"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel

by MPH73 on Jun 29, 2010 1:35 PM CDT up reply actions  

I'm beginning to think

you’re right, Ace. Too much pressure, unlike any other in sports (yes, even the Yankees and Red Sox).

by Not Bruce Froemming on Jun 29, 2010 8:10 PM CDT up reply actions  

Fair Enough

To me this is like blaming the Bears bad season on Craig Stultz. Sure, he isn’t a very good safety and he gets burned alot. But he isn’t supposed to be a star. Either management needs to find someone better to replace him or the stars of the team need to play well enough that Stultz isn’t relied upon.

by JSB on Jun 29, 2010 8:29 AM CDT via mobile up reply actions  

+1

RIP Ronnie James Dio (July 10, 1942 - May 16, 2010).

by Ace Venom on Jun 29, 2010 9:12 AM CDT up reply actions  

Ding!

"I don't know what the big deal about Crackerjack is"

by theGraceyslumpbuster on Jun 29, 2010 9:13 AM CDT up reply actions  

You're right, but...

Lou keeps using him like he is the all star of this team. When he bats lead off for a majority of the games and continues to perform as poorly as he does (and makes no outward appearances of trying to improve his play), he will receive the brunt of the criticism, deserved or not.

by Danwood on Jun 29, 2010 8:26 AM CDT up reply actions  

Look at Lou's team

How many bonafide lead off hitters does he TRULY have?

"I don't know what the big deal about Crackerjack is"

by theGraceyslumpbuster on Jun 29, 2010 8:30 AM CDT up reply actions  

None

I’m not huge on Theriot as a lead-off hitter, but what does Lou have to work with? Castro is an 8 right now, Colvin is a 5-6 type, Byrd is a 5-6 type, Fukudome is well-suited for the top of the lineup, but he shouldn’t be in the lineup at all given how much better Colvin is hitting. Fontenot is probably best as a 7-8 type, Baker the same. We haven’t had a legit leadoff hitter since Lofton. That’s on Hendry.

by JSB on Jun 29, 2010 8:36 AM CDT via mobile up reply actions  

I agree.

He has to work with what he has. Sadly his decisions this year have been VERY sub-par and Hendry’s moves have been terrible.

This team is poorly constructed.

"I don't know what the big deal about Crackerjack is"

by theGraceyslumpbuster on Jun 29, 2010 8:41 AM CDT up reply actions  

Fontenot hasn't even played.

Why not try him at leadoff? How much worse could he be?

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al Yellon on Jun 29, 2010 8:42 AM CDT up reply actions  

At this point they need to do anything.

It has become sickening.

"I don't know what the big deal about Crackerjack is"

by theGraceyslumpbuster on Jun 29, 2010 8:43 AM CDT up reply actions  

We saw Fontenot get exposed last year

He is at best a platoon player. Simply put he isn’t an everyday player. Lately we have seen an inordinate amount of lefties, thus the absence of Fontenot. I prefer Fontenot to Theriot(and always have) but he isn’t that great. Still in the bottom half of 2B in the league, just like Theriot.

by JSB on Jun 29, 2010 9:42 AM CDT via mobile up reply actions  

Since 2003...

…the Cubs have had nothing resembling a legit leadoff hitter.

"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel

by MPH73 on Jun 29, 2010 8:51 AM CDT up reply actions  

is joey gathright still in chicago?……

by andyross1219 on Jun 29, 2010 10:22 AM CDT up reply actions  

Please.

I would gladly take Aramis at leadoff over Gathwrong.

I didn't believe it last August, but it turns out that love survives.

Preparing to hike to the summit of Mount Washington in New Hampshire on Saturday, July 10....

State high point count: 2/50

by Vermont Cubs Fan on Jun 29, 2010 12:38 PM CDT up reply actions  

That's Lou's problem

RIP Ronnie James Dio (July 10, 1942 - May 16, 2010).

by Ace Venom on Jun 29, 2010 8:52 AM CDT up reply actions  

And we've blamed Lou plenty of times

But Theriot is a MLB player. He needs to play like one too.

by Danwood on Jun 29, 2010 8:54 AM CDT up reply actions  

Last I checked, he was

Not every MLB player is Ted \Williams out there.

RIP Ronnie James Dio (July 10, 1942 - May 16, 2010).

by Ace Venom on Jun 29, 2010 8:59 AM CDT up reply actions  

Nobody is asking for that

All I ask is for him to look at the friggen first pitch, every at bat. Not the first 5 at bats after Lou says he needs to do it, every at bat. If he goes through a 9 pitch sequence and still GIDP, you can say he at least gave it an effort.

by Danwood on Jun 29, 2010 9:02 AM CDT up reply actions  

A punch and judy...

…hitter like Theriot, should rarely swing at the first pitch, period.

If he was a run producer, different story, but the guy just doesn’t get it.

"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel

by MPH73 on Jun 29, 2010 9:04 AM CDT up reply actions  

Agree

I am not going to say Theriot is the sole reason for this teams failures, goodness there is plenty of blame to go around. But in spots like last night Theriot I would have to guess swings at the first pitch 90% of the time. It comes with runners on, so it is magnified 5×.

by Grockcubs on Jun 29, 2010 9:48 AM CDT up reply actions  

There is also a perception of what can be easily changed (right or wrong)

Some baseball skills seem innate (run faster, hit the ball harder), while others seem more learned (run smarter, choose pitches better). Thus, it seems more valid to criticize Theriot for choosing to swing on the first pitch than, say, to criticize Derek Lee for not being able to catch up to that fastball. Not all valid, of course, and fan likes/dislikes/loyalty play a part in it.

by TC Cubby on Jun 29, 2010 9:56 AM CDT up reply actions  

it's unfortuanate...

…that a player ignores the situation so much, because it is a real fundemental part of the game.

You don’t want to have to do it, but a guy like Theriot should be treated like a high school player, and should probaby get the take sign more often. Even with that, he may swing anyway.

"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel

by MPH73 on Jun 29, 2010 10:01 AM CDT up reply actions  

Because that WAS the key play

Not as much of the GIDP but the fact it was on the 1st pitch.

This is a situation where the ENTIRE team gets a FAILING grade.

Just win the next game...!

by blackhawk24 on Jun 29, 2010 8:03 AM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

Yes I agree

But I wish I knew what his first pitch swing BA is before I condemn him. I know it SEEMS like it is a sure out especially when the situation is magnified like it was in the 7th inning but is it really? Show me numbers to prove it one way or another. You would think Rudy would be coaching him patience if his first pitch swing results were poor like it was last night in that situation.

Not a Theriot apologist but he did get 2 hits so in foresight he was the right man at the plate, he just didn’t execute.

by JFCubFan on Jun 29, 2010 9:04 AM CDT up reply actions  

And then there's the though of a squeeze

like Al pointed out in his post. That’s a bench FAIL. Really gotta wonder what the hell is going on in that 3rd base dugout.

Just win the next game...!

by blackhawk24 on Jun 29, 2010 9:10 AM CDT up reply actions  

well looking at his splits on his espn player profile page...

linky here (scroll down to the “by count” section) I see that with a 0-0 count, he’s had 20 hits in 54 ABs for a .370 avg.

Not what the Theriot-haters would have expected, I’m sure…

Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."

by ballhawk on Jun 29, 2010 9:44 AM CDT up reply actions  

in fact, scroll down a little more to the "by situation" section...

…and you’ll see the worse situations for him by far, are leading off an inning (.243) and batting with nobody on (.261). All other situations, he’s well over .300.

Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."

by ballhawk on Jun 29, 2010 9:48 AM CDT up reply actions  

Good points Ballhawk

It is remarkable that his numbers are worse when the count is in his favor.
 Frustrations abound with this team, Theriot is the whipping boy for last nights game, fair or unfair, that is way it is going with this year.

by Grockcubs on Jun 29, 2010 9:52 AM CDT up reply actions  

regardless of his ba

in that situation you make the pitcher prove to you he can throw a strike – who knows maybe he had lost his control for the game and you could get on base by walking…patience is all we are asking for…take a pitch

Sipping the Kool-Aid since 1982 - Kinda
Currently 34,839 on the Season Ticket Wait List - Expected age of being #0: 119

by hansman1982 on Jun 29, 2010 2:17 PM CDT up reply actions  

He's always been a controversial player here.

But I can’t disagree with Al that Theriot failed in a key situation last night. He’s having an awful season, though, I must admit, I wasn’t aware he’d been so successful reaching base with RISP.

Certified Twitterfiend.

by daver on Jun 29, 2010 9:08 AM CDT up reply actions  

I'm not a Theriot apologist either

I have never thought he was an everyday SS. He is a little better at 2B, and the Cubs could win with him playing second (look no further than the Cardinals with Theriot clone Schumacher manning 2B) but he isn’t a foundational piece on a winning team. However, Theriot’s underachievement pales in comparison to others on the team. That was my only point. If your season is going to live and die based on Theriot, you are not a winning ballclub. It’s simpl as that. Also, the first pitch thing might be a little overblown. It looks awful when it fails, but Theriot is hitting .375 on the first pitch.

by JSB on Jun 29, 2010 9:51 AM CDT via mobile up reply actions   1 recs

I was never a fan of Theriot, but I rec'd this comment cuz of this.....
Theriot’s underachievement pales in comparison to others on the team. That was my only point. If your season is going to live and die based on Theriot, you are not a winning ballclub

"Well-behaved women seldom make History"---Laurel Thatcher Ulrich

by cooliogirl47 on Jun 29, 2010 9:54 AM CDT up reply actions  

heheh

"Shut the f*** up" – Derrek Lee. Well said my man, well said.

by jesus christos on Jun 29, 2010 3:50 PM CDT up reply actions  

I totally agree.

I’m really fed up with all the Theriot bashing here. Some of us still like the guy (like me) and are sick of him being singled out for all the abuse when things go wrong. Sometimes I’m not sure I even want to come to this site because of it.

by owllover711 on Jun 30, 2010 3:03 AM CDT up reply actions  

Mist


"A waist is a terrible thing to mind." - Terry 'Fat Tub of Goo' Forster

by eths on Jun 29, 2010 7:50 AM CDT reply actions  

Merde

I'll go to my grave believing Armando Galarraga tossed the 21st perfect game in MLB history.

by EalyEagle on Jun 29, 2010 8:29 AM CDT up reply actions  

Last night with Lou, er hat ein Vogel in der kopf.

"The ones who want to achieve and win championships motivate themselves." - Da Coach

by Sandberg's evil twin on Jun 29, 2010 8:54 AM CDT up reply actions  

Lou soll einen Vogel im Kopf gehabt haben? More like bats in his belfry, I would think.

The last couple innings were really painful on the “radio” this morning at work.


"A waist is a terrible thing to mind." - Terry 'Fat Tub of Goo' Forster

by eths on Jun 29, 2010 9:33 AM CDT up reply actions  

I was told in HS that it meant as a phrase you were crazy.

That and Geht zum Teufel…my German instructor was pretty anal but occasionally we’d pry a few things out of her.

"The ones who want to achieve and win championships motivate themselves." - Da Coach

by Sandberg's evil twin on Jun 29, 2010 9:35 AM CDT up reply actions  

I do realize it means you have a bird in your head lol

"The ones who want to achieve and win championships motivate themselves." - Da Coach

by Sandberg's evil twin on Jun 29, 2010 9:36 AM CDT up reply actions  

Actually a the phrase is:

Er hat einen Vogel (he has a bird)
Du hast einen Vogel (you have a bird)

No head involved.

A more colourful phrase is: Er/Sie hat nicht alle Tassen im Schrank (He/She doesn’t have all his/her cups in his/her cupboard). This is equivalent to the phrase: He has bats in his belfry.

Lou Piniella hat nicht alle Tassen im Schrank!


"A waist is a terrible thing to mind." - Terry 'Fat Tub of Goo' Forster

by eths on Jun 29, 2010 9:49 AM CDT up reply actions  

Ist Schweinhund then the insult she told us it was?

"The ones who want to achieve and win championships motivate themselves." - Da Coach

by Sandberg's evil twin on Jun 29, 2010 9:51 AM CDT up reply actions  

rather mild

A baddie would be Zipfelklatscher


"A waist is a terrible thing to mind." - Terry 'Fat Tub of Goo' Forster

by eths on Jun 29, 2010 9:55 AM CDT up reply actions  

Is that even close to wiener smacker?

lol…this reminds me so much of having a hearing impaired girl teaching us swear signs for bullshi*t in physical therapy class.

"The ones who want to achieve and win championships motivate themselves." - Da Coach

by Sandberg's evil twin on Jun 29, 2010 10:00 AM CDT up reply actions  

LOL - Wiener smacker is spot on - Never heard that one before

If you really wanna be really nasty in the local dialect for Munich: Du Brunzkache Du ogsoachte


"A waist is a terrible thing to mind." - Terry 'Fat Tub of Goo' Forster

by eths on Jun 29, 2010 10:05 AM CDT up reply actions  

Oh, and if you want to tell somebody that they have a Vogel, then tap your temple with your index finger

This is known as “showing a bird” (eine Vogel zeigen) and is about as bad as the famous finger.


"A waist is a terrible thing to mind." - Terry 'Fat Tub of Goo' Forster

by eths on Jun 29, 2010 9:53 AM CDT up reply actions  

Hmm...I'll remember that. I did notice they recognized biting your thumb

which wouldn’t mean anything here.

"The ones who want to achieve and win championships motivate themselves." - Da Coach

by Sandberg's evil twin on Jun 29, 2010 9:56 AM CDT up reply actions  

I used to look forward to the Cubs playing the Pirates...

Not anymore. Why don’t they just forfeit the next two games and go directly to the Cincinnati series?

Get 'em on, Get 'em over, Get 'em in!

by DKT on Jun 29, 2010 7:51 AM CDT reply actions  

Know how everyone else in the Central would get excited for a 3 game stand with the Pirates?

The Cubs have become that team this year. Nobody may want to admit it, but we are that team.

by Danwood on Jun 29, 2010 7:56 AM CDT up reply actions  

Oh yeah...

I think this makes TEN series in a row where the Cubs have lost the first game of the series. Way to set the tone, boys…

Get 'em on, Get 'em over, Get 'em in!

by DKT on Jun 29, 2010 8:15 AM CDT up reply actions  

you forgot the trade a few years back

Ramirez
Lofton
WTBNL….well they are naming them this year….

by cozmotaylor123 on Jun 29, 2010 8:53 AM CDT up reply actions  

You know when your team is bad when Dotel

Ks the side. Good Grief!

"I don't know what the big deal about Crackerjack is"

by theGraceyslumpbuster on Jun 29, 2010 7:52 AM CDT reply actions  

Squeeze bunts ...

are not done at the discretion of the batter. They are signaled in the from the 3b coach who probably gets it from the dugout. If you want to criticize Therriot for pitch selection and lack of patience – fine, but not executing a squeeze is all on Lou.

"The Cubs are due in sixty-two." - #14

by BatCubFan on Jun 29, 2010 7:52 AM CDT reply actions  

Agreed.

Nevertheless, it should have been done.

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al Yellon on Jun 29, 2010 8:05 AM CDT up reply actions  

Exactly.

At least a safety squeeze…if Riot lays down a fantastic bunt, Castro can take off for the plate. If it’s not that great, Castro holds, it turns into a sacrifice, Riot thrown out at first, 2nd and 3rd, 2-out.

"What the hell, let's review it." - Dale Tallon
"They are!" - Pat Foley
"What a farce." - Dale Tallon

by HawkVision on Jun 29, 2010 8:13 AM CDT up reply actions  

Ron Santo

Is tougher than this bunch of players. He has withstood some really bad baseball over his lifetime, and always bounces back. He DOES epitomize what a Cub fan is and has endured.

"It's a funny old world. Man's lucky if he gets out of it alive." W.C. Fields

by KedzieKid on Jun 29, 2010 7:56 AM CDT reply actions  

James Russell is at AAA

Also, if he was gonna use Nady to hit, why not have Fontenot run for Aramis? Not that it mattered anyway, but wouldn’t Mike be more likely to score on a ball in the gap than Aramis?

by Dcr18 on Jun 29, 2010 8:01 AM CDT via mobile reply actions  

I forgot about Russell.

Maybe he’ll be back.

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al Yellon on Jun 29, 2010 8:05 AM CDT up reply actions  

Russell and Stevens have already been recalled according to Levine.

Stevens replaces Z and Russell replaces Grabow.

"A dream you dream alone is only a dream. A dream you dream together is reality." John Lennon

by Cubbiegoon on Jun 29, 2010 8:07 AM CDT up reply actions  

Thanks.

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al Yellon on Jun 29, 2010 8:42 AM CDT up reply actions  

np

"A dream you dream alone is only a dream. A dream you dream together is reality." John Lennon

by Cubbiegoon on Jun 29, 2010 8:45 AM CDT up reply actions  

Is Grabow hurt again?

I’m seeing he hasn’t given up a run in his last 5 appearances, since May 30th.

by madcow256 on Jun 29, 2010 10:17 AM CDT up reply actions  

He blew out his knee again last night.

He could be headed for Chad Fox territory.

Certified Twitterfiend.

by daver on Jun 29, 2010 10:40 AM CDT up reply actions  

my take on him talking to Kevin

Z had to find someone, anyone “understand him.” ie let him off the hook for his actions. He obviously couldn’t do that in the Cubs organization. So he reached out to someone who could “understand him” win-win for both of them Millar gets his name in the news & Z has a former ballplayer tried to justify his behavior.

Z of course doesn’t realize he already has someone on a Cub message board that also does that.

"Actually, Major League Baseball is more like Neverland

And the Lost Boys don’t have to ever grow up. Some do, anyway, but that is not a universal characteristic"

by Madison Cub Fan on Jun 29, 2010 8:05 AM CDT reply actions  

The sad part about this loss is the fact that Colvin looked bad against a lefty

so now Lou won’t play him at all unless it is a RHP.

"I don't know what the big deal about Crackerjack is"

by theGraceyslumpbuster on Jun 29, 2010 8:09 AM CDT reply actions  

Huh?

What exactly is a “firing-up talk”? You talk about out of touch, Al, you would be amazed to learn that a modern day clubhouse is much more like a regular office setting than you’d possibly believe. Hell, those types of talks are just as rare at the major college level…they are essentially mythical.

Oh, I’m sure they happen in a place here or there but they are far, far, far less frequent or widespread…in the dugout or clubhouse, than you believe…and for obvious reasons…they are a complete waste of time and serve no useful purpose.

What does serve a useful purpose is a lineup with hitters that are actually talented. This lineup can’t hit, won’t hit and obviously won’t return in 2011. In fact, there are only a handful of offensive players on this roster that will even have starting roles in 2011…anywhere.

"When the day comes with that last winning run and I'm crying and covered in beer. I'll look to the sky and know I was right to think someday we'll go all the way." - Vedder

by krummy12 on Jun 29, 2010 8:11 AM CDT reply actions  

I'll take your word for that.

My point was that IF such talks happen, they belong in the clubhouse, not in the dugout, and for Z to ask Silva to do it… beyond bizarre.

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al Yellon on Jun 29, 2010 8:43 AM CDT up reply actions  

I don't get that at all

If I read that quote right, Z asked Silva to do the talk because Z knew it wouldn’t work coming from himself, given his performance this year. But when Silva refuses, Z decides the time to stir things up is after he pitches a very bad inning? That explanation doesn’t work, and the only conclusion that I can see is that Z is truly out of control (of course), and any attempt to explain his thinking is either denial or image control.

by TC Cubby on Jun 29, 2010 9:06 AM CDT up reply actions  

Well the first part makes sense

Z realizes that at this point in the season, any sort of “pep” talk coming from him isn’t going to work because he realizes he sucks. Who’s gonna listen to the guy that sucks? So yeah, trying to get someone else to jack up the team makes perfect sense.

I don’t get why he went to Silva though. Lee, Sori or Byrd might have made more sense (probably in reverse order).

Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."

by ballhawk on Jun 29, 2010 9:56 AM CDT up reply actions  

yeah, it makes sense

it’s just totally incompatible with his timing for his outburst. I think the conclusion is a man who may intend to do the right things, but loses control. Hopefully that’s right and the anger management is spot on (if overdue).

by TC Cubby on Jun 29, 2010 9:58 AM CDT up reply actions  

Lee, Sori or Byrd might have made more sense...

… but Lee and Sori haven’t shown a lot of propensity for doing such things during their time as Cubs, at least in what we as fans have seen.

Byrd, maybe.

٩(͡๏̯͡๏)۶ Dum spiro spero... | Twitter: @andrewjstone.

by AndrewJStone on Jun 29, 2010 10:38 AM CDT up reply actions  

Apparently, he and Silva are pretty close

Silva may be the only guy Z felt he could trust with such a request, without it getting thrown back in his face.

"Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have?" -Frank Chance
"If [Ruth] had [called his shot], I would have knocked him down with the next pitch." -Charlie Root

by Clutch16 on Jun 29, 2010 2:29 PM CDT up reply actions  

Absolutely...

…and nothing wrong with a player occasionaly speaking up in the clubhouse in regards to how shitty the team is playing. I don’t know, but I doubt this club has had much of that in the last couple of years.

You can’t always rely on the manager to get the players attention (especially with today’s athletes). Many times you need one of your established players to wake their collective asses up in private.

"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel

by MPH73 on Jun 29, 2010 9:09 AM CDT up reply actions  

Just fishing here....

could Z be jealous of the Love and Success that Silva is having…wanted him to be the fall guy and get people ticked at him…again,,just fishing for a possible reason the Silva thing came out

by cozmotaylor123 on Jun 29, 2010 11:20 AM CDT up reply actions  

Calos vs Carlos - CAGE MATCH.

I’d pay $10 to sit in the bleachers and watch that.

٩(͡๏̯͡๏)۶ Dum spiro spero... | Twitter: @andrewjstone.

by AndrewJStone on Jun 29, 2010 11:23 AM CDT up reply actions  

Special guest referee - Ozzie Guillen!

Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."

by ballhawk on Jun 29, 2010 11:30 AM CDT up reply actions  

Solid idea, although there is the question of bias...

Now, we need under card ideas! What’s Barrett up to these days?

٩(͡๏̯͡๏)۶ Dum spiro spero... | Twitter: @andrewjstone.

by AndrewJStone on Jun 29, 2010 11:36 AM CDT up reply actions  

That is a thing of beauty, Hawk!

I spent 90% of my money on women and drink. The rest I wasted - George Best

by Blue W on Jun 29, 2010 12:32 PM CDT up reply actions  

You, sir, JUST BLEW MY MIND.

٩(͡๏̯͡๏)۶ Dum spiro spero... | Twitter: @andrewjstone.

by AndrewJStone on Jun 29, 2010 12:32 PM CDT up reply actions  

wow...that was cool

"Well-behaved women seldom make History"---Laurel Thatcher Ulrich

by cooliogirl47 on Jun 29, 2010 12:36 PM CDT up reply actions  

O_O

I didn't believe it last August, but it turns out that love survives.

Preparing to hike to the summit of Mount Washington in New Hampshire on Saturday, July 10....

State high point count: 2/50

by Vermont Cubs Fan on Jun 29, 2010 12:40 PM CDT up reply actions  

This is what the crosstown classic is like when you're on LSD

Anyway, that post made me lol.

"Nothing can happen till you swing the bat."
-Haruko Haruhara

by windycitywarrior on Jun 29, 2010 12:58 PM CDT up reply actions  

Have you ever seen the Crosstown Classic?

Have you ever seen the Crosstown Classic – ON LSD?

٩(͡๏̯͡๏)۶ Dum spiro spero... | Twitter: @andrewjstone.

by AndrewJStone on Jun 29, 2010 1:01 PM CDT up reply actions  

With LSD, crosstown classic not necessary


"A waist is a terrible thing to mind." - Terry 'Fat Tub of Goo' Forster

by eths on Jun 29, 2010 2:21 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions  

Maybe, maybe not.

But the team could’ve had a closed-door meeting and Z could’ve screamed holy hell and maybe some good would’ve come out of it. Doing what he did in the dugout was just a monumental misstep in a season full of them.

Certified Twitterfiend.

by daver on Jun 29, 2010 9:01 AM CDT up reply actions  

Lou does a great job with the lineup!

I wonder crafty way he will shake up things today!

I can only hope he does not remove Theriot from the leadoff spot!

Colvin needs to return to the bench where he belongs! Everybody was hitting last night except him. Theriot got his hits when it mattered not in the non clutch situations he made outs in!

Great job not lettinng Marmol start the 9th! Lou knows Marmol pitches better with a bunch of guys on base first!

The Pirates are an awesome team with an awesome lineup and a great closer! We should be happy with the games that we have won vs them!

I know Tom Ricketts seems to be happy with this group and that’s all that matters!

by TJ11 on Jun 29, 2010 8:17 AM CDT reply actions  

Sarcasm?

nah, I am a fan.

"I don't know what the big deal about Crackerjack is"

by theGraceyslumpbuster on Jun 29, 2010 8:22 AM CDT up reply actions  

if the season wasn't so dismal....

I might be, but he provides a chuckle to me b/c most of the points he uses satire for are actually true.

I sadly agree with each point he makes.

"Actually, Major League Baseball is more like Neverland

And the Lost Boys don’t have to ever grow up. Some do, anyway, but that is not a universal characteristic"

by Madison Cub Fan on Jun 29, 2010 8:23 AM CDT up reply actions  

If you mean...

How the Cubs play baseball? Then YES.

"They say that money doesn't buy happiness...but it DOES by Cub tickets. You ever see a sad person with Cub tickets?"

by redivycubs on Jun 29, 2010 8:29 AM CDT up reply actions  

Only TJ can decide what he wants to post

but I will say I prefer the non-performance art stuff.

I'll go to my grave believing Armando Galarraga tossed the 21st perfect game in MLB history.

by EalyEagle on Jun 29, 2010 8:30 AM CDT up reply actions  

Not really.

I want to see him try to keep it up the whole season.

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al Yellon on Jun 29, 2010 8:43 AM CDT up reply actions  

The straw poll results are against me, so I'll shut up.

I do my best to skip over every post by TJ at this point. His tired act is just another reminder of how awful this season is.

But I’ll refrain from commenting further on the matter.

by elgato on Jun 29, 2010 8:45 AM CDT up reply actions  

I always love to hear from you elgato!

The Cubs are doing great!

Can’t wait for today’s game! Lou always has something up his sleave to lead us to victory!

Tom Ricketts has to be thrilled with his purchase!

by TJ11 on Jun 29, 2010 10:46 AM CDT up reply actions  

I like it...TJ gets across exactly what he wants to say, but in a way that is blog friendly

keep it up TJ…you’re one of a kind!

"Well-behaved women seldom make History"---Laurel Thatcher Ulrich

by cooliogirl47 on Jun 29, 2010 8:49 AM CDT up reply actions  

A woman with nerves of steel...

;-)


"A waist is a terrible thing to mind." - Terry 'Fat Tub of Goo' Forster

by eths on Jun 29, 2010 9:35 AM CDT up reply actions  

I still love that Z is talking to everyone else

but the damn team (i.e. Lou, Lee, Hendry, anyone) I’m still pissed he was feeling good enough to saunter out on the town with Ozzie freakin’ Guillen that same night.

He’s going to see doctors? Fine. Get him “healed” and get him moved…somehow. I’ve been patient with his blow-ups in the past, saying, “That’s just Z, he’s just an emotional guy.” But now, that’s changed to, “Jeeez, what a nut job. Get him the hell outta there.”

"What the hell, let's review it." - Dale Tallon
"They are!" - Pat Foley
"What a farce." - Dale Tallon

by HawkVision on Jun 29, 2010 8:20 AM CDT reply actions  

Funny how winning and losing changes

everyone’s outlook.

"I don't know what the big deal about Crackerjack is"

by theGraceyslumpbuster on Jun 29, 2010 8:22 AM CDT up reply actions  

I am in total agreement with you here

When he was the “ace” he got a free pass. Now he isn’t so he gets suspended.

It seems to me the Z wanted to fire up the team, but he chose a very bad time to do it. Z is an emotional guy and getting fired up seems best for him so he probably thought it’d be good for the team to get fired up too. Some people truly respond to being told they are playing like crap.

I’m not saying it’s the right move, but I can see where Z’s personality came across in the wrong way there.

by gizmo6d9 on Jun 29, 2010 10:40 AM CDT up reply actions  

JH was on Mike & Mike this morning

Unfortunately I caught only the last minute of it…“obviously we want Carlos to get help, we still consider him an integral part of the team, etc”.

I'll go to my grave believing Armando Galarraga tossed the 21st perfect game in MLB history.

by EalyEagle on Jun 29, 2010 8:32 AM CDT up reply actions  

If it was Mike & Mike

The interview will be repeated at some point…

by JimAnchower on Jun 29, 2010 8:34 AM CDT up reply actions  

true

I guess Greeny & Golic are gonna be at Wrigley tonight, throwing out the 1st pitch.

I'll go to my grave believing Armando Galarraga tossed the 21st perfect game in MLB history.

by EalyEagle on Jun 29, 2010 8:36 AM CDT up reply actions  

you can always down load their podcast too

they put up the “best of” every day.

Things work out best for those that make the best out of the way things work out - Coach Wooden

by Allie on Jun 29, 2010 1:35 PM CDT up reply actions  

That's carny for

“We owe him too damn much money to just get rid of him.”

www.facebook.com/craighudak

by Craig in South Bend on Jun 29, 2010 9:29 AM CDT up reply actions  

And further....

it can be translated to:

“I received a rather stern talking-to after Friday’s presser disaster, and I’m trying like hell to make it seem like keeping Z is a plausible course of action.”

MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown

by D98 on Jun 29, 2010 9:42 AM CDT up reply actions  

God i hope he figured that out for himself...

… and didn’t need some “stern talking-to” to be reminded.

HE IS OUR FREAKING GM.

٩(͡๏̯͡๏)۶ Dum spiro spero... | Twitter: @andrewjstone.

by AndrewJStone on Jun 29, 2010 10:40 AM CDT up reply actions  

There is a sizeable contingent on this site...

…who still believe that “Blast Z as much as possible” was the best course of action – even after Hendry has abandoned it.

MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown

by D98 on Jun 29, 2010 11:27 AM CDT up reply actions  

There is a sizeable contingent on this site...

…who still believe that what is said here on the internet matters — and we laugh at them for it.

As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.

by santoswoodenlegs on Jun 29, 2010 11:29 AM CDT up reply actions  

LOL

Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."

by ballhawk on Jun 29, 2010 11:30 AM CDT up reply actions  

That works two ways.

Obviously, no one believes that the Cubs are monitoring the message boards for hints and tips about how to run the franchise.

(Although with our current braintrust, I’d probably recommend it.)

That said, we’re all participating, so the discussion and the forum clearly matters to the participants at some level.

MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown

by D98 on Jun 29, 2010 11:40 AM CDT up reply actions  

Also

http://www.csnchicago.com/06/28/10/Cubs-place-Zambrano-on-restricted-list/landing_cubs.html?blockID=262371&feedID=619

2:52 – Did you speak to him, Jim?
“Yes I did. I spoke to him today.”

"Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have?" -Frank Chance
"If [Ruth] had [called his shot], I would have knocked him down with the next pitch." -Charlie Root

by Clutch16 on Jun 29, 2010 2:40 PM CDT up reply actions  

My god can we please drop the whole dinner with Ozzie thing?

They are good friends who had the dinner plans before the incident. Anyone who complains about that sounds really childish.

"Pounding sand since 1982...."

by cubswynn on Jun 29, 2010 8:51 AM CDT via mobile up reply actions  

I understand...

….but I’ll say this; if Lou went to dinner with one of the Sox players that did something like Zambrano, both Ozzie and Kenny would have been livid.

"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel

by MPH73 on Jun 29, 2010 8:56 AM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

And Hawk Harrelson.

I didn't believe it last August, but it turns out that love survives.

Preparing to hike to the summit of Mount Washington in New Hampshire on Saturday, July 10....

State high point count: 2/50

by Vermont Cubs Fan on Jun 29, 2010 2:42 PM CDT up reply actions  

This dinner will be eaten under protest!

I spent 90% of my money on women and drink. The rest I wasted - George Best

by Blue W on Jun 29, 2010 2:56 PM CDT up reply actions  

Again, it's the perception that's the key thing.

Once you have a blowup like that, maybe both individuals involved should have said, “Maybe we should do this another night.”

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al Yellon on Jun 29, 2010 8:56 AM CDT up reply actions  

He's a grown man

Just because he didn’t act like it doesn’t mean he isn’t one. Just because he’s in the public eye doesn’t mean he can’t have a private life and have dinner with a friend. Complaining about this seems too much like TMZ for my tastes.

RIP Ronnie James Dio (July 10, 1942 - May 16, 2010).

by Ace Venom on Jun 29, 2010 8:58 AM CDT up reply actions  

It's not just "dinner with a friend".

Not sure why you can’t see that.

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al Yellon on Jun 29, 2010 8:59 AM CDT up reply actions  

Agreed. You just don't do it.

What if, for example, Z let it slip that someone on the Cubs had a tough time with certain pitches or was nursing a leg injury? I know that’s extreme, but don’t even leave anything open for scrutiny

by Mapmaker on Jun 29, 2010 9:01 AM CDT up reply actions  

What if a frog had wings?

You guys are stretching out of hatred for Zambrano here. They’re both professionals and honestly, Zambrano’s outburst shares he care too much about winning to do something like you described.

RIP Ronnie James Dio (July 10, 1942 - May 16, 2010).

by Ace Venom on Jun 29, 2010 9:02 AM CDT up reply actions  

Bingo

The guy lacks the maturity to cancel dinner plans like that, let alone the maturity to keep it together in the dugout. Sure hope he gets the professional help he needs for his own health and well-being.

I'll go to my grave believing Armando Galarraga tossed the 21st perfect game in MLB history.

by EalyEagle on Jun 29, 2010 9:10 AM CDT up reply actions  

So not bailing on his friends shows immaturity on his part?

Right. I’m glad I someone explained this to me.

RIP Ronnie James Dio (July 10, 1942 - May 16, 2010).

by Ace Venom on Jun 29, 2010 9:18 AM CDT up reply actions  

It's not the same thing

Trbl example. Just trbl.

RIP Ronnie James Dio (July 10, 1942 - May 16, 2010).

by Ace Venom on Jun 29, 2010 9:21 AM CDT up reply actions  

please explain

or, if you prefer, pls xpln

by TC Cubby on Jun 29, 2010 9:25 AM CDT up reply actions  

What you just described is a really dumb thing to do

If you’re in a relationship with another woman, you shouldn’t be making a date with an old flame. This isn’t the same thing as keeping dinner plans with a friend from another franchise.

RIP Ronnie James Dio (July 10, 1942 - May 16, 2010).

by Ace Venom on Jun 29, 2010 9:28 AM CDT up reply actions  

I agree

I guess it would be more like keeping your dinner date with your friends where you know the perception will be that they will take your side and you will complain about your spouse. While it may or may not happen, it certainly isn’t going to help the situation that you have brought on yourself.

by TC Cubby on Jun 29, 2010 9:31 AM CDT up reply actions  

Sorry to jump in...

…but in your situation, feelings get hurt. In Z’s situation, who’s feelings get hurt? The fan who feels betrayed? Does having dinner change what happened in the dugout?

"Pounding sand since 1982...."

by cubswynn on Jun 29, 2010 9:35 AM CDT up reply actions  

Nope

Somehow, I don’t think this bothered Hendry so much.

RIP Ronnie James Dio (July 10, 1942 - May 16, 2010).

by Ace Venom on Jun 29, 2010 9:36 AM CDT up reply actions  

This is like the scene in Fever Pitch

After the team goes down 3 – 0 the fans are absolutely depressed. Then they see the team just out eating dinner like nothing is wrong and the fans can’t believe it.

Players take it to the field and leave it off the field. If they couldn’t do that then they would live in torture for their whole career.

by gizmo6d9 on Jun 29, 2010 10:43 AM CDT up reply actions  

i see where your going but..

If Z would have acted cool and not yelled and stumped around on national tv then I could see keeping the dinner date with Ozzie, but once he crossed the threshold of acting a fool in the dugout, and taking his rant outside to the media, he and Ozzie should have acted like adults and canceled the dinner.

"Did you ever wake up with an erection...and find yourself in a massage chair at Brookstone? And you yell to the sales clerk "I'll take it!"' Zach Galifinakis

by R*8 on Jun 30, 2010 3:36 AM CDT up reply actions  

I don't know about feelings on the team

I imagine that there are some hurt feelings.

But the real issue is that keeping the dinner with Guillen shows either a lack of awareness or a lack of concern over the perception the dinner would create. What has always been the problem with Z? Lack of focus/control. After the altercation his sole priority should have been restoring his place with the team. The dinner did not further that goal, or, even if you believe Ozzie Guillen to be a source of trusted counsel for this matter, the dinner does not hold the perception of furthering the goal. The conclusion is that Z’s dinner with Ozzie is a glaring symptom of the root problem that boiled to a head once again.

by TC Cubby on Jun 29, 2010 9:41 AM CDT up reply actions  

What did more damage?

Zambrano’s tirade or his dinner date? I’d put money on the tirade.

RIP Ronnie James Dio (July 10, 1942 - May 16, 2010).

by Ace Venom on Jun 29, 2010 9:42 AM CDT up reply actions  

absolutely

To clarify, I don’t have (much of) a problem with Zambrano meeting Guillen on a normal night during the season. Just not after the tirade.

by TC Cubby on Jun 29, 2010 9:59 AM CDT up reply actions  

Not on the night your team is playing his team the next day.

Everybody is making a big deal about scheduling, scheduling. Whatever. Both teams are home for a full week half way through July. It could have happened then.

Both of them had to be aware this would irk fans, teammates, the media… in Ozzies case, i’m sure that was an incentive. In Z’s case, it was a bad perception to be putting out in the midst of being suspended from his team.

٩(͡๏̯͡๏)۶ Dum spiro spero... | Twitter: @andrewjstone.

by AndrewJStone on Jun 29, 2010 10:44 AM CDT up reply actions  

Needs to be green.

٩(͡๏̯͡๏)۶ Dum spiro spero... | Twitter: @andrewjstone.

by AndrewJStone on Jun 29, 2010 10:41 AM CDT up reply actions  

He gets paid, doesn't he?

That makes him a professional. Now his maturity may be called into question at times, which I will grant you.

RIP Ronnie James Dio (July 10, 1942 - May 16, 2010).

by Ace Venom on Jun 29, 2010 9:22 AM CDT up reply actions  

Ace, understand my comments about Z

are coming from a place of “it it was me…”. That said, I like to think I have the presence of mind to step back and realize how I would’ve handled the dinner thing – by canceling due to an unexpected situation pertaining to my job – would never occur to Carlos because he and I would be coming from two different places.

What I define as an “immaturity” may be defined as “loyalty to a friend” by you and Z. So be it. As always, my posts are never intended to change anyone’s mind or win the Internet – just sharing my own perspective for what they’re worth.

I'll go to my grave believing Armando Galarraga tossed the 21st perfect game in MLB history.

by EalyEagle on Jun 29, 2010 9:44 AM CDT up reply actions  

I can understand that

My point is that people deal with their problems differently. According to what’s come out in the press, Zambrano’s only friend in the clubhouse was Carlos Silva and he alienated him. So I can’t blame Z for wanting to spend time with a friend, any friend, after he had a really bad day.

RIP Ronnie James Dio (July 10, 1942 - May 16, 2010).

by Ace Venom on Jun 29, 2010 9:45 AM CDT up reply actions  

Hard for me to argue

with trying to seek out any friend after a bad day. Good point.

I'll go to my grave believing Armando Galarraga tossed the 21st perfect game in MLB history.

by EalyEagle on Jun 29, 2010 9:53 AM CDT up reply actions  

Just because it happened when they were playing the Sox

Am I right? Zambrano and Guillen were friends before this and I’d rather a guy spend some time with a friend rather than stew by himself after something like that. What’s really wrong with that?

RIP Ronnie James Dio (July 10, 1942 - May 16, 2010).

by Ace Venom on Jun 29, 2010 9:01 AM CDT up reply actions  

Meh

Maybe you’re right. Ozzie does have the “snake oil salesman” aura about him…maybe he threw out to Z, “You need to leave that team…they and their fans don’t like you anymore.”

"What the hell, let's review it." - Dale Tallon
"They are!" - Pat Foley
"What a farce." - Dale Tallon

by HawkVision on Jun 29, 2010 9:05 AM CDT up reply actions  

I'll never forgive Oz for aiding and abetting

Miggy Cabrera getting stewed during the last weekend of the season last year, as the Tigers were battling to win the division outright.

I'll go to my grave believing Armando Galarraga tossed the 21st perfect game in MLB history.

by EalyEagle on Jun 29, 2010 9:11 AM CDT up reply actions  

Of all the things that happened Friday ...

Z breaking bread with Ozzie doesn’t bug me that much. I understand the counter-argument, but I don’t care that Z didn’t spend the night in quiet contemplation.

by elgato on Jun 29, 2010 9:01 AM CDT up reply actions  

Some people don't like to contemplate quietly

People are different in how they deal with their problems. What’s the big deal?

RIP Ronnie James Dio (July 10, 1942 - May 16, 2010).

by Ace Venom on Jun 29, 2010 9:04 AM CDT up reply actions  

I'm not the biggest proponent of regular season interleague play as it is

But that’s another discussion.

RIP Ronnie James Dio (July 10, 1942 - May 16, 2010).

by Ace Venom on Jun 29, 2010 9:28 AM CDT up reply actions  

You and I don't often agree

But on this we do.

I'll go to my grave believing Armando Galarraga tossed the 21st perfect game in MLB history.

by EalyEagle on Jun 29, 2010 9:44 AM CDT up reply actions  

Undoubtedly.

Obviously, the crosstown classic is a CHICAGO rivalry. Sure, Fox will put the game on, but in the minds of most people outside of this area, it’s just another couple of games – and i’m sure the same is felt by the players, who didn’t grow up in Chicago learning to hate one team or the other like many of us fans did.

I’m from Iowa, and every time i visit with out of stater Cubs fans, they have little beef with the White Sox.

٩(͡๏̯͡๏)۶ Dum spiro spero... | Twitter: @andrewjstone.

by AndrewJStone on Jun 29, 2010 10:47 AM CDT up reply actions  

True...I live in Cardinals country and they could care less about the White Sox...

As a matter of fact they are barely mentioned anywhere I go. They are very much the 2nd team of Chicago outside the Chicagoland area.

Of course this would just piss Ozzie and Kenny off, but I do believe it to be true.

by TJ11 on Jun 29, 2010 10:50 AM CDT up reply actions  

Practically true

I don’t run into a lot of White Sox fans. I’ll occasionally see someone wearing a White Sox cap, but that’s not always the best indicator that someone is a fan.

RIP Ronnie James Dio (July 10, 1942 - May 16, 2010).

by Ace Venom on Jun 29, 2010 11:02 AM CDT up reply actions  

In my experience...

… the freelance fans of the midwest gravitate to the Cubs or Cards by a large majority, and occasionally the Twins.

When its NFL time, its the Packers or the Vikings, and occasionally the Bears or Chiefs.

٩(͡๏̯͡๏)۶ Dum spiro spero... | Twitter: @andrewjstone.

by AndrewJStone on Jun 29, 2010 11:09 AM CDT up reply actions  

Crawdad Attack!!!!!!!!!!

As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.

by santoswoodenlegs on Jun 29, 2010 11:09 AM CDT up reply actions  

They're the 2nd team INSIDE Chicagoland

God help them if the Kane County Cougars or Schaumburg Flyers ever got hot, they’d fall to #3 or #4.

Just win the next game...!

by blackhawk24 on Jun 29, 2010 12:10 PM CDT up reply actions  

Sorry I simply disagree.

I don’t think two grown men should have to live their lives based on what fans or the media think. The TMZ’s of the world care, I don’t.

"Pounding sand since 1982...."

by cubswynn on Jun 29, 2010 9:29 AM CDT up reply actions  

Ok. I'll give you perception...

…but dinner was last Friday – and in the grand timeline of things, that’s ancient history by now. How many times are you going to beat a dead Z on that particular issue.

Besides, shouldn’t mature, reasonably intelligent people (like all of us of course) be able to see through “perception”? I mean, isn’t perception used in situations where folks don’t fully comprehend reality so they fall back on a vague sensation?

Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."

by ballhawk on Jun 29, 2010 10:07 AM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

Very well said.

Turn it green.

"Pounding sand since 1982...."

by cubswynn on Jun 29, 2010 10:11 AM CDT up reply actions  

But a consisten failure to recognize the perception which you are creating

is a sign of immaturity and lack of the focus needed to succeed. I think the history is sufficient to establish that this is not the sort of situation where a man understands the perception that his actions will create, but chooses to do the action anyway because it needs to be done. Instead, this is a person who cannot focus upon the tasks in front of him and is utterly self-unaware.

To “drop it” is to turn a blind eye to the long string of evidence which is necessary to evaluate Zambrano’s future to the team.

by TC Cubby on Jun 29, 2010 10:15 AM CDT up reply actions  

Look wynn, I see where you are coming from, but wouldn't it be easier to say you disagree with it?

I mean obviously some adults here disagree with you…no reason to term it as childish. I see your point like I see the opposing one. I don’t think people’s feelings here are so divergent it merits long debate.

"The ones who want to achieve and win championships motivate themselves." - Da Coach

by Sandberg's evil twin on Jun 29, 2010 9:06 AM CDT up reply actions  

I don't mean it as name calling.

I literally mean it sounds like something a 14 year old would say. If that’s mean, I’m sorry. But Cubs fans have to know that complaining about who a grown man has dinner with is just plain silly.

"Pounding sand since 1982...."

by cubswynn on Jun 29, 2010 9:23 AM CDT up reply actions  

Oh I don't have a problem with you. I disagree it's unimportant...but only mildly.

I surely see your side of it.

"The ones who want to achieve and win championships motivate themselves." - Da Coach

by Sandberg's evil twin on Jun 29, 2010 9:27 AM CDT up reply actions  

WHY ?!?!

OK so plans were made beforehand. BUT that was before this SELFISH ASS completely made an ASS of not only himself but the ENTIRE organization. He should have not gone through with the plans especially since he couldn’t give the time of day to his TEAM for some 48hrs afterwards.

He’s a SELFISH PRICK and personifies EXACTLY the OPPOSITE definition of TEAMMATE.

Just win the next game...!

by blackhawk24 on Jun 29, 2010 10:06 AM CDT up reply actions  

I give up

RIP Ronnie James Dio (July 10, 1942 - May 16, 2010).

by Ace Venom on Jun 29, 2010 10:16 AM CDT up reply actions  

Dude, after a bad day

you don’t want to just go out with your friends after work and have a few beers and vent? This guy is a human. An emotionally fragile human who can’t control his behavior.

Ozzie is a former player who Z is close to and can relate to (since Ozzie is a hot head too). He seems like the perfect guy to go talk to about it. They are off the field so try and see them as humans and not as jerseys.

Maybe you are being a bit selfish on this one.

by gizmo6d9 on Jun 29, 2010 10:47 AM CDT up reply actions  

Yes, after being suspended by your team for a hot-head incident...

… the perfect coarse of action is to go out to dinner with the opponents own resident hot-head!

/TJ11

٩(͡๏̯͡๏)۶ Dum spiro spero... | Twitter: @andrewjstone.

by AndrewJStone on Jun 29, 2010 10:50 AM CDT up reply actions  

Ok, so let's say you are reprimanded from your job

Should you not go out with friends afterwards? You should just lock yourself up in your room to think about what you’ve done?

You guys act as if these players belong to you. They are humans!

by gizmo6d9 on Jun 29, 2010 10:52 AM CDT up reply actions  

And Z sees things as it's him vs. the world

I’m sure he felt like once he was told to go home that he didn’t have a friend in that clubhouse. He’s irrational and emotional.

So it makes sense that in that moment the one thing he needed was someone to talk to that wouldn’t judge him.

by gizmo6d9 on Jun 29, 2010 10:54 AM CDT up reply actions  

Just a ridiculous comparison.

Was i reprimanded from my job for shrieking at my co-workers, and am i going out to dinner with the manager of a competing company my co-workers have to make an important bid against tomorrow morning?

If that is the case, then no, i should NOT go out to dinner with that guy. I should to to dinner with my family, or some friends who don’t work for the opponent.

In fact, that sounds like the sort of thing that would turn a reprimanding in to a firing at many offices.

٩(͡๏̯͡๏)۶ Dum spiro spero... | Twitter: @andrewjstone.

by AndrewJStone on Jun 29, 2010 11:11 AM CDT up reply actions  

Not that office life has anything to do with working as a professional baseball palyer...

… but like i said, the comparison is redic.

٩(͡๏̯͡๏)۶ Dum spiro spero... | Twitter: @andrewjstone.

by AndrewJStone on Jun 29, 2010 11:12 AM CDT up reply actions  

How is it not a comparison

I’m trying to get you guys to think of him not as a jersey, but a person.

Just because you sign and play for a team doesn’t mean that the team owns you. He didn’t do anything illegal. It wasn’t a huge scene. He just went to dinner. You people act like these guys have no emotions or anything.

For all you know he could be having trouble at home and wanted to talk to Ozzie about it. You have NO idea why they went to dinner. Maybe there was a serious personal issue that he was dealing with (maybe it led to this blow up). YOU HAVE NO IDEA WHAT IS GOING ON IN HIS LIFE. He has a home life, personal life.

It is ridiculous for you to think that you can judge these people from your seats. You only see them for 3 hours a day.

It’s not like this happened and he ran and cried to Ozzie. It was already planned. You have no idea why it was planned. Grow up and stop acting like these people you don’t even know have such an effect on your life.

Sure get pissed about him yelling at the team. I don’t agree with his actions. But as long as he is off the field not doing anything illegal then he can do what he wants.

by gizmo6d9 on Jun 29, 2010 11:18 AM CDT up reply actions  

Have you ever played team sports?

I just can’t fathom his teammates appreciating it… and at this point in time, he should be doing everything in his power to improve his teammates perception of him.

Unless he already knows he’s not going to be playing for the Cubs again, in which case i’m totally wrong for being upset about this.

٩(͡๏̯͡๏)۶ Dum spiro spero... | Twitter: @andrewjstone.

by AndrewJStone on Jun 29, 2010 11:22 AM CDT up reply actions  

Yes, I have played for a sports team

and being in traveling baseball leagues you have friends on the other teams. And I would understand that people have relationships with other people. You leave the jerseys on the field.

Have you ever looked at pre-game activities. In all sports, opposing players talk to each other all the time.

You play hard on the field and shake hands off the field. That is a true gamer. Someone who can leave it on the field.

What he did in the dugout was inexcusable but I see no problem in him going to a “safe zone” and talking it out with a friend.

by gizmo6d9 on Jun 29, 2010 11:25 AM CDT up reply actions  

are you talking about the fraternizing with the other team part of it?

If you are, I don’t see how any teammate these days would have a problem with it – they all seem to do it. The days of Bob Gibson and Don Drysdale are long gone…

Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."

by ballhawk on Jun 29, 2010 11:26 AM CDT up reply actions  

I think it really comes from free agency

A few of these guys grew up together. Or they may know each other from the minors or from previous teams they played for. As long as you show passion to win I don’t care who you hang out with.

I remember a story about Fukudome going to dinner with a former player from Japan who pitched for the Braves. As I recall they even faced each other that night and then went out to dinner afterwards. Where was the firestorm then?

I understand being mad at Zambrano. His actions were ridiculous, but to get mad at him going out to dinner is just irrational.

by gizmo6d9 on Jun 29, 2010 11:28 AM CDT up reply actions  

I asked the same thing

Here.

"Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have?" -Frank Chance
"If [Ruth] had [called his shot], I would have knocked him down with the next pitch." -Charlie Root

by Clutch16 on Jun 29, 2010 2:56 PM CDT up reply actions  

I don't have a problem with it any other night of the year.

That particular night, even if it was planned in advance, was not the night you go out with the opposing team’s manager.

I’d hesitate to be OK with it in the midst of a series anyways, but that was especially egregious.

٩(͡๏̯͡๏)۶ Dum spiro spero... | Twitter: @andrewjstone.

by AndrewJStone on Jun 29, 2010 11:38 AM CDT up reply actions  

...

I didn't believe it last August, but it turns out that love survives.

Preparing to hike to the summit of Mount Washington in New Hampshire on Saturday, July 10....

State high point count: 2/50

by Vermont Cubs Fan on Jun 29, 2010 12:43 PM CDT up reply actions  

Cool picture, bro.

٩(͡๏̯͡๏)۶ Dum spiro spero... | Twitter: @andrewjstone.

by AndrewJStone on Jun 29, 2010 12:51 PM CDT up reply actions  

Reprimanded from your job

in front of 40,000 people and hundreds of thousands more on TV? Lemme know what that happens to you and it’s on You-Tube.

Just win the next game...!

by blackhawk24 on Jun 29, 2010 12:14 PM CDT up reply actions  

Just because he can throw a ball 90mph

doesn’t make him a perfect person to be held at a higher standard. He has issues to deal with just like the rest of us. I don’t see why he needs to lock himself up just because his job just so happens to be on TV.

Our society is too wound up about celebrities being idiots because of the TMZ’s of the world being all up in their business. I only know the embarrassments I would suffer if my life were followed 24/7. Cut the guy some slack for eating with a friend.

by gizmo6d9 on Jun 29, 2010 12:51 PM CDT up reply actions  

After I made a complete ASS

of myself, my team, my city and everything Cubs, yes I would hope some sense would have settled in but guess what it didn’t with Z.

Again, it’s ALL ABOUT Z, fuck everything (and everyone) else.

Just win the next game...!

by blackhawk24 on Jun 29, 2010 11:02 AM CDT up reply actions  

OMG I think you are taking this a LITTLE too seriously

It’s just dinner. THE WHOLE CITY?! You think the WHOLE CITY is embarrassed that Zambrano yelled at his team?! The WHOLE CITY is embarrassed that Zambrano goes to dinner with Ozzie?!!! Wow, that’s kinda sad.

I would be more concerned with losing to everyone who takes the field against us than my struggling pitcher yelling at people. That’s more of an embarrassment to the uniform than some ill-advised attempt to pump up the team.

You’re telling me if the Cubs were well on their way to winning 100 games that anyone would truly be embarrassed by this?

Get a grip man! It’s just a game!

by gizmo6d9 on Jun 29, 2010 11:07 AM CDT up reply actions  

You don't get what the definition of TEAM MATE is

because I can tell by your comments.

OK, so it’s not the whole city, but Cubs fans in majority, significant majority. Having had to comment to friends, family members and colleagues from out of town how the resident whack-job went at it AGAIN was EMBARRASING as a life-long CUBS fan.

Just win the next game...!

by blackhawk24 on Jun 29, 2010 12:13 PM CDT up reply actions  

Oh please, if you are truly embarrassed then you need to get a grip

It has no reflection on you as a person. And I’m not defending his actions on the field. Just his actions off the field.

And I know what a TEAM MATE is. I have been a captain on numerous teams. I know what it is to lead. You don’t know me. I can see how you judge people like Zambrano by the way you judge ME in a matter of a few paragraphs. I am not judging you as a person as you seem to be judging me. I am strictly just asking you to think of him as a person and not as a member of “your” team worrying about your own damn embarrassment.

A TEAMMATE plays hard together on the field. Off the field matters are their own issue. MAYBE in Z’s irrational head he doesn’t think people yelling STFU and kicking him out of the stadium is a good example of being a TEAMMATE.

by gizmo6d9 on Jun 29, 2010 12:54 PM CDT up reply actions  

Bullshit

You DO NOT call out your teammates in public. If you do, you’re an ASS.

I played too, OK. A good team mate does NOT do that.

And now I’m coaching and if any of my kids embarrass one of their team mates they’re gonna hear it from me and the other coaches.

Just win the next game...!

by blackhawk24 on Jun 29, 2010 1:54 PM CDT up reply actions  

Woah...I did not say that he should call people out

I said that he has a right to go to dinner with whoever he pleases. You are the one calling ME and bad teammate simply because I believe that you can be friends with people in the opposite uniform.

And I believe that just because he had an incident AT WORK doesn’t mean he can’t go talk with his friend.

You may need to go join Z with his anger management. Your language is getting rather out of line.

by gizmo6d9 on Jun 29, 2010 2:11 PM CDT up reply actions  

Doesn't it seem like he thinks there's not much an issue

and hence he went out anyway.

No anger management needed. I can decouple this stuff at the drop of a hat.

Let’s say that Z has to go, eh? Agree?

Just win the next game...!

by blackhawk24 on Jun 29, 2010 2:47 PM CDT up reply actions  

Absolutely correct!!!

"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel

by MPH73 on Jun 29, 2010 3:37 PM CDT up reply actions  

If a guy you don't know goes to dinner with someone you don't know

and it truly effects your life…then I would argue that you do not have one.

Otherwise, you need to get a grip and relax. This season was over either way and the team did fine during his OTHER “incidents”. Some even credit the Lou tantrum and Z’s fight in the dugout to turning the team around in 07.

And I for one find it hilarious that Lou thinks yelling at people in the dugout is inappropriate. It wreaks of hypocrisy.

by gizmo6d9 on Jun 29, 2010 1:27 PM CDT up reply actions  

Go bark up another tree

Don’t tell me I don’t have a life when you don’t know a fucking thing about me, OK?

You go get a grip and STFU. Z was out of line and the actions by the team reflect that. So go put that in your pipe and smoke it.

Just win the next game...!

by blackhawk24 on Jun 29, 2010 1:56 PM CDT up reply actions  

The profanity is uncalled for.

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al Yellon on Jun 29, 2010 1:57 PM CDT up reply actions  

I wasn't saying you didn't have a life

I was saying that maybe you should check your priorities if Zambrano truly embarrasses you.

Again, not defending what he did in the dugout. It may have been well intentioned, but it was out of line. This all started talking about his friendly dinner. I was saying it’s not a big deal.

by gizmo6d9 on Jun 29, 2010 2:09 PM CDT up reply actions  

Fine....

Just win the next game...!

by blackhawk24 on Jun 29, 2010 2:45 PM CDT up reply actions  

I feel as if I am reading quotes from a jerry spinger show

"Did you ever wake up with an erection...and find yourself in a massage chair at Brookstone? And you yell to the sales clerk "I'll take it!"' Zach Galifinakis

by R*8 on Jun 30, 2010 4:05 AM CDT up reply actions  

I would guess none of Z's teammates cared he was having dinner with Ozzie.

Of course I don’t know that, but if it were true, would you still be upset about it?

"Pounding sand since 1982...."

by cubswynn on Jun 29, 2010 1:32 PM CDT up reply actions  

If they were they hopefully would have the

class to not mention it. It’s what makes a guy like D-Lee a class act and a guy like Z an asshole.

Just win the next game...!

by blackhawk24 on Jun 29, 2010 1:56 PM CDT up reply actions  

But you didn't answer my question.

If Z’s teammates are okay with him having dinner with Ozzie (which again, is an assumption), then why should it bother you as a fan?

"Pounding sand since 1982...."

by cubswynn on Jun 29, 2010 3:07 PM CDT up reply actions  

I truly don't believe they like it

but they’re gonna act with more class IMO, lay low with it and try not to stir the pot further.

Just win the next game...!

by blackhawk24 on Jul 5, 2010 4:38 PM CDT up reply actions  

The tirade embarassed you?

The way they’ve played for the last 2 months embarasses me WAY more.

Things work out best for those that make the best out of the way things work out - Coach Wooden

by Allie on Jun 29, 2010 1:40 PM CDT up reply actions  

Playing poorly and making mistakes are one thing

if the players own up to it.

Acting like a complete ASSHOLE and totally respecting everything there is about a TEAM is completely unacceptable.

It’s not having a tirade it’s the way it played out. THAT SHIT should be in the clubhouse AWAY from the PRESS & PUBLIC.

Just win the next game...!

by blackhawk24 on Jun 29, 2010 1:52 PM CDT up reply actions  

Yeah

no one’s taking this personally at all.

Good lord. We get it Coach. It was poorly done.

Things work out best for those that make the best out of the way things work out - Coach Wooden

by Allie on Jun 29, 2010 2:06 PM CDT up reply actions  

Fine...

Now you get it. He should have done it in the clubhouse.

Just win the next game...!

by blackhawk24 on Jun 29, 2010 2:48 PM CDT up reply actions  

Can I remind you that this is a public forum

And you are calling people out with lots of profanity…

I would say you are being a bad BCB teammate.

You do not get to go out with your friends tonight!

by gizmo6d9 on Jun 29, 2010 2:12 PM CDT up reply actions  

I'm going to ask you to keep your definition to "teammate"

For one, this is a family site, and for two, my stomach is weakened by this season and I may not survive any defining of a “Team Mate.”

may addition by subtraction be real

by N Oakley on Jun 29, 2010 2:42 PM CDT up reply actions  

IF your stomach is weakened by this season

How’d you survive 2006, or 2002, or 1999, or 1997… … …

I wasn’t defining the term, I was re-iterating it.

Just win the next game...!

by blackhawk24 on Jun 29, 2010 2:50 PM CDT up reply actions  

I was funnin' on it being two words.

As for the other seasons, ’97 & ’02 were not surprises. ’99 and ’06 still hurt.

I’m surprised each new day with this season.

may addition by subtraction be real

by N Oakley on Jun 29, 2010 2:58 PM CDT up reply actions  

Is it two words or one???

You’re still getting surprised this year eh? That’s starting to fall far, far away for me. Now its a matter of can they even do enough to get to .500…..

Just win the next game...!

by blackhawk24 on Jun 29, 2010 3:04 PM CDT up reply actions  

one word. A teammate is much different than a team mate.

Sadly, the surprises (Colvin & Castro excepted) are new lows.

may addition by subtraction be real

by N Oakley on Jun 29, 2010 3:08 PM CDT up reply actions  

Al, I really can't believe this one

I mean, even with all of the bad baseball we’ve seen, this one is ridiculous. Other than the young kids brought up this year, there are very few players I ever want to see in a Cub uniform again. Unfortunately, with the contracts it will be unavoidable.

by Mapmaker on Jun 29, 2010 8:24 AM CDT reply actions  

Oh that Piniella!
Yet, when Lou was asked during the postgame news conference why he pinch-hit Xavier Nady for Starlin Castro, Lou said, “I wanted to get a veteran up there who might be able to hit the ball out of the park.”

Lou has turned into a Cubbie Occurrence.

I'll go to my grave believing Armando Galarraga tossed the 21st perfect game in MLB history.

by EalyEagle on Jun 29, 2010 8:33 AM CDT reply actions  

In addition to using Nady

Brenly’s point in the 9th was equally as consequential regarding having no choice but to leave the slowfooted Aramis at 1B and basically requiring the Cubs to string at least 2 hits together just to TIE the score. For 2 years I’ve been saying that this offense will be incomplete without a legit leadoff hitter or someone who can at least swipe a base. I’m not saying these types of players are standing at the side of the road with their thumbs up just waiting to be picked up, but c’mon. If you can spend all this cash on Dome, Bradley, Byrd, etc. over the past couple of years surely the budget was there to pry a guy like this loose from somewhere.

If Hendry doesn’t make this priority #1 this offseason, I think he should leave on the horse he rode in on. Stop building an offense for the 38% of the time the wind blows out at Wrigley.

by BeltwayCubsFan on Jun 29, 2010 8:41 AM CDT reply actions  

It seems very much so LBR has found his way into the doghouse for some reason

I don’t know why but he needs to be let out and play 2nd base with Theriot as well as pinch hit. It did look last night like they were swinging for the fences when the wind was so strong they had no hope of getting there. If the Pirates, in last place, 0-17 on the road can figure out we need line drives, why can’t Lou?

Play LBR Lou, It’s long past time. Theriot is going to wilt whenever it’s an important situation…it won’t be any worse and at least you’ve tried to change things.

"The ones who want to achieve and win championships motivate themselves." - Da Coach

by Sandberg's evil twin on Jun 29, 2010 8:52 AM CDT reply actions  

I can't wait for Lou to leave and

take his stupid dog house with him.

A lovely story:

One day, long, long ago, there lived a woman who didn't whine, nag or bitch. That would be me....

But that was a long time ago and it was just that one day.

The end

by sue369 on Jun 29, 2010 2:12 PM CDT up reply actions   2 recs

Just as long...

…as Hendry is in that dog house when he leaves.

"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel

by MPH73 on Jun 29, 2010 3:39 PM CDT up reply actions  

The stuff from Millar sounds like damage control for Z.

He probably wants out of Chicago pretty badly and has to make some sort of showing. Typical gutless form from him (letting someone else explain).

The article almost sounds comical, “undergo evaluation for anger issues by doctors picked by MLB and the Players Association”. The guy needs consequences for his B.S. antics. Now he’s going to hide behind doctors and his “condition”. I don’t believe Millar’s description, he’s being played by a guy who is desperate.

by DudeVf11 on Jun 29, 2010 8:53 AM CDT reply actions  

I agree Z probably wanted to fire up the team

timing was bad….he just gave up 4 runs

what fires me up is a 1 2 3 inning…rinse,,repeat.

by cozmotaylor123 on Jun 29, 2010 8:54 AM CDT up reply actions  

I got lambasted on the game thread last night for saying the same thing.

And I don’t believe for one minute Z gives a crap about it or wants to “change”. He’s been coddled all his life and is letting the spin control handle it. I do hope he gets some help, but the way he’s allowed people to handle the situation, I don’t believe he cares about it at all.

"The ones who want to achieve and win championships motivate themselves." - Da Coach

by Sandberg's evil twin on Jun 29, 2010 8:59 AM CDT up reply actions  

Yes, in a previous post I suggested that the team and players handle another typical episode

from this team’s biggest tool, but after reading more of the responses from players’ and mgmt, that clearly is not possible now. Zambrano is gone and he’s got to do some sort of showing to help get his butt traded. Z’s worst nightmare now is sitting in the bullpen at Wrigley, he’ll be a drunk magnet.

The Cubs should have suspended him the first time he did crap like this and for each subsequent B.S. antic. But when you are pitching great they put up with a lot more. In that sense I love now how Z is enduring the reality that his mediocre performance will no longer cash the checks for his chumpness.

by DudeVf11 on Jun 29, 2010 9:04 AM CDT up reply actions  

Z has gotten a pass on irresponsible behavior ever since he got here, and being a star

athlete, probably has at home in Venezuela as well. You reap what you sow. Surely, he’s to blame for his actions, but mgmt is just as much to blame for knowing what he will do and not ever setting limits with real actions to do so.

"The ones who want to achieve and win championships motivate themselves." - Da Coach

by Sandberg's evil twin on Jun 29, 2010 9:10 AM CDT up reply actions  

Interesting point, Dude

Maybe Hendry and Z had an honest enough meeting that they both agreed to a parting of the ways. Hendry wants to get rid of a clubhouse cancer, Zambrano wants to go to a team of winners who care. Both are right. So Carlos agrees to go through the union-approved counseling, knowing that’s the only way clubs like the Mets or Rangers or White Sox can be convinced he’s a new man that’s worth trading for.

I'll go to my grave believing Armando Galarraga tossed the 21st perfect game in MLB history.

by EalyEagle on Jun 29, 2010 9:16 AM CDT up reply actions  

Good points Eagle. I think many people would agree a change of scenery would help.

And hopefully, FINALLY we will learn better how to handle athletes who act like this in the future.

"The ones who want to achieve and win championships motivate themselves." - Da Coach

by Sandberg's evil twin on Jun 29, 2010 9:20 AM CDT up reply actions  

The problem is

those others teams are going to want to see Carlos pitch a few times before agreeing to a deal. He’s going to be out a few weeks, at least.

by JimAnchower on Jun 29, 2010 9:28 AM CDT up reply actions  

Couldn't some sucker...er, other team

simply refer to his body of work and know what they’d be getting from that? Sure, he’s lost a couple MPH off the ol’ heater since the good old days, but as recently as 2008 he’s tossed a no-hitter. Besides, he leads the Cubs in RBI, doesn’t he? ;-)

I'll go to my grave believing Armando Galarraga tossed the 21st perfect game in MLB history.

by EalyEagle on Jun 29, 2010 9:48 AM CDT up reply actions  

Let's look at his recent body of work

It doesn’t look good, does it. He’s been poor for a while. The only way a team takes Carlos without any additional appearances is if the Cubs eat all his contract short of the veteran’s minimum.

by JimAnchower on Jun 29, 2010 9:59 AM CDT up reply actions  

We'll see

It simply wouldn’t surprise me if Z was dealt before he took the field again.

I'll go to my grave believing Armando Galarraga tossed the 21st perfect game in MLB history.

by EalyEagle on Jun 29, 2010 11:30 AM CDT up reply actions  

Yes

Z won’t diligently concern himself with improving his pitching or his attitude until his contract is about ready to expire. I use to love the guy, the emotion, the 200+ innings every year, and 14-16 wins. He has failed his team and has failed himself.

by Grockcubs on Jun 29, 2010 10:01 AM CDT up reply actions  

Damage control for Z *and* for the Cubs.

Every step that we take toward rehabilitating Z’s image, even slightly, makes it that much easier to find a trade partner.

This is not that difficult. For Hendry, while it probably felt totally sweet to rip on Z on Friday, it was a counterproductive strategy, and it has (fortunately, albeit belatedly) been abandoned.

MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown

by D98 on Jun 29, 2010 8:59 AM CDT up reply actions  

Assuming that the rest of the professional abseball world has their collective heads in the sand.

You have to find a a bad contract for a bad contract and a manager who is willing to baby the jackass. The window dressing at the margin is just that.

by DudeVf11 on Jun 29, 2010 9:07 AM CDT up reply actions  

The only positive thing in there is the athletic world is so full of them, it is possible someone will want him.

But we will have to eat most of the money darn it. I had so much hope when he was signed. It’s sad how he’s been as a pitcher and a teammate since. He seems to have a good heart inside.

"The ones who want to achieve and win championships motivate themselves." - Da Coach

by Sandberg's evil twin on Jun 29, 2010 9:14 AM CDT up reply actions  

Good organizations...

…don’t have years like this and also so many problems with their players (Bradley, Zambrano).

This is an organizational failure on many levels that was slowly building to this point for the last several years. The house of cards has fallen, and it’s time for Ricketts to make a good decision on who will be picking up the pieces.

"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel

by MPH73 on Jun 29, 2010 8:54 AM CDT reply actions  

Considering that this is the third time in six years ...

that Hendry likely will have to dump a former All-Star — one of whom was the franchise’s biggest star — I agree with you.

by elgato on Jun 29, 2010 8:57 AM CDT up reply actions  

The Cubs do have a penchant for turning productive guys...

… in to “clubhouse cancers” as i believe i saw Z referred to earlier.

٩(͡๏̯͡๏)۶ Dum spiro spero... | Twitter: @andrewjstone.

by AndrewJStone on Jun 29, 2010 10:54 AM CDT up reply actions  

I was too young to grasp the Sosa situation fully...

… but i was pretty peeved with how the Cubs handled Bradley last year, and i was placing equal blame on Bradley and the team. People were not amused, you included i believe. I understand how it’s hard to blame the organization for the actions of its petulant players, but if these guys really are nothing but “spoiled children” as we keep accusing, the team needs to get on board with the dozens of other organizations who can play a better parent to them.

I’m not condoning Z’s actions in any way, but i’m glad a few more people are coming around to the “this team needs to better protect it’s investments, the GM needs to stop trashing his players in the media, and we hire specialists for diet, swing, body, and everything else, why shouldn’t we get them for these guys’s minds?” point of view.

٩(͡๏̯͡๏)۶ Dum spiro spero... | Twitter: @andrewjstone.

by AndrewJStone on Jun 29, 2010 11:16 AM CDT up reply actions  

Wow, TJ, you got a rec from me.

Well stated.

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al Yellon on Jun 29, 2010 11:52 AM CDT up reply actions  

I agree with everything you are saying, and obviously each situaion has it's own unique factors...

… but we are seeing a pattern of either bringing guys who can’t handle it here, or of allowing guys to do counterproductive things (sometimes repeatedly) until they are deemed “clubhouse cancers”.

The fact that they are getting Z help (even though forcing it on somebody is far less likely to work than them deciding to do it for themselves) encourages me, as i was quite loudly complaining they needed to do so for MB last year. We got lucky – nothing more – that we ended up with a decent Silva, so it takes the sting off somewhat, but none the less, when you make an investment of a million dollars, or twenty million dollars, or in Z’s case, more… and you KNOW this indivdual is prone to getting in his own way mentally, it makes little sense to not try to treat that, just like you’d treat dehydration, or poor mechanics in a swing, or a pulled muscle.

Sure, Bradley hadn’t built up the good will that Z has, so maybe we shouldn’t have been as tolerant as we are of Z’s antics, but as a pure business decision, getting guys help for their issues should ALWAYS be an option before sending them off for pennies on the dollar.

٩(͡๏̯͡๏)۶ Dum spiro spero... | Twitter: @andrewjstone.

by AndrewJStone on Jun 29, 2010 11:59 AM CDT up reply actions  

In terms of Bradley...

… we don’t know if the Cubs tried to get him to do what Z is doing and he refused. Remember, he did do this with the Mariners.

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al Yellon on Jun 29, 2010 12:38 PM CDT up reply actions  

Oh absolutly.

In Bradley’s case (and keeping in mind that i have no understanding of baseball contracts) maybe something should have been mandated – weekly check-ins with somebody who can unleash the woosah.

٩(͡๏̯͡๏)۶ Dum spiro spero... | Twitter: @andrewjstone.

by AndrewJStone on Jun 29, 2010 12:53 PM CDT up reply actions  

As much as I blame Hendry for many mistakes, this:

Either way JH was screwed on this unless Z behaved himself and won 15-20 games a year.

by Mapmaker on Jun 29, 2010 12:42 PM CDT up reply actions  

Rec'd!

Just win the next game...!

by blackhawk24 on Jun 29, 2010 2:45 PM CDT up reply actions  

TJ11

That’s a really good summation.

But, I really don’t think Z’s antics compare to MB’s or Sosa’s. It least they are ‘heat of the battle’ incidents. Anger management? Sure. A bad character / teammate? I don’t think so.

by azjazzman on Jun 29, 2010 4:07 PM CDT up reply actions  

While I definitely agree

I’m sure someone here will post a bunch of examples to contradict your statement instead of aknowleding the Cubs are a bad organization

by Mapmaker on Jun 29, 2010 8:58 AM CDT up reply actions  

I think that's a really good point

The good organizations in any sport (particularly ones that have large payrolls) find ways to compete even during so-called ‘rebuilding’ years. I think of the Patriots as the perfect example of a franchise that still competes even during down years. The lows for a franchise with this payroll should never be this low barring a series of injuries (which is why I have a little more sympathy for last year’s awfulness). They’ve had few injuries this year, and the division is soft. No excuses.

by BeltwayCubsFan on Jun 29, 2010 9:05 AM CDT up reply actions  

Ricketts
the house of cards has fallen

Yes, and Ricketts has to have known about the horrible contracts the GM has made, the aging players, the aging manager, the problems with the bullpen, etc., before he bought the Cubs. He didn’t just discover all this stuff, this season. He has to be figuring out a way in his business-y mind how to make his “product” a money-making- WS-winning-team. If he isn’t, well he just isn’t as smart as we all thought he was. He’s just another fan, yes but also just another owner making just enough money on a mediocre team he’s content with.

"Well-behaved women seldom make History"---Laurel Thatcher Ulrich

by cooliogirl47 on Jun 29, 2010 9:08 AM CDT up reply actions  

I feel bad for Joel Zumaya.

His career started out so promising.

"That's life, that's what all the people say.
You're riding high in April,
Shot down in May
But I know I'm gonna change that tune,
When I'm back on top, back on top in June."
- Big boy Frankie

by lexmarklover on Jun 29, 2010 9:09 AM CDT reply actions  

I think the Ricketts should declare

2013, when they’re finally free of Hendry’s horrid contracts and Hendry for that matter, as year one and forever refer to the 2010-2012 seasons as “The Lost Years” or “The Seasons of Tribulation” or “the 1950s.”

by the nth on Jun 29, 2010 9:13 AM CDT reply actions  

So 2013 is really 1 AH (After Hendry)? ;-)

Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."

by ballhawk on Jun 29, 2010 10:18 AM CDT up reply actions  

yeah

that wasn’t depressing at all.

Things work out best for those that make the best out of the way things work out - Coach Wooden

by Allie on Jun 29, 2010 1:42 PM CDT up reply actions  

If this season has taught me anything

it’s that if the score is 1-1 against the Pirates, the Pirates will surely win. I stopped watching after it looked like the Cubs wouldn’t score a second run, figuring I’d read the recap this morning and see they lost. Sure enough…

www.facebook.com/craighudak

by Craig in South Bend on Jun 29, 2010 9:21 AM CDT reply actions  

Also, OT re LBJ

Woah, check out those abbreviations…Anyway, if Screaming A. Smith is right, and LBJ and Bosh both go to Miami to play with Wade, how sad or disappointed would that make you?

www.facebook.com/craighudak

by Craig in South Bend on Jun 29, 2010 9:23 AM CDT reply actions  

Very disappointed. The Bulls have been a champion of mediocrity and those two would

bring you a good chance to make it to at least a higher level.

"The ones who want to achieve and win championships motivate themselves." - Da Coach

by Sandberg's evil twin on Jun 29, 2010 9:25 AM CDT up reply actions  

True dat

It would also make el Heat almost unstoppable, which would anger me to almost no end. I hate the Knicks and Heat so much…Always have, always will.

www.facebook.com/craighudak

by Craig in South Bend on Jun 29, 2010 9:27 AM CDT up reply actions  

As a long time Jordan fan, I will never like the Knicks.

Right now all I have are my VHS tapes of dominating them in the playoffs like others. They have stunk so bad it’s been awhile since they mattered, but we have only been mildly better. Sure is fun to watch John Starks or Charlie Ward lose.

"The ones who want to achieve and win championships motivate themselves." - Da Coach

by Sandberg's evil twin on Jun 29, 2010 9:30 AM CDT up reply actions  

The Isiah Thomas era Knicks were the most fun basketball team ever

On this one forum I go to, there was a thread titled lolknicks, and it was just a daily log of all of the ridiculous things that went on with that team.

But yeah, I HATE Patrick Ewing, John Starks, etc. I was watching the ESPN 30 for 30 doc Winning Time, the one where Reggie Miller eats the Knicks alive in those playoffs, and I was giggling uncontrollably for the whole doc almost. My wife was like, “Why are you laughing so much” and I was laughing because someone made a doc about the Knicks getting owned and it was hilarious to see all that again. I could watch that doc a thousand times and like each time.

www.facebook.com/craighudak

by Craig in South Bend on Jun 29, 2010 9:34 AM CDT up reply actions  

I have too! cracks me up cause most people here in stl (w/o bball) just look strangely at me.

Beating them in MSG was particularly fun since I kept hearing what a mecca of a place it was supposed to be to watch basketball. Take that Ewing! beat ya in your own palace…

"The ones who want to achieve and win championships motivate themselves." - Da Coach

by Sandberg's evil twin on Jun 29, 2010 9:40 AM CDT up reply actions  

Two days ago he was "sure" to come to chicago.

Yesterday he was “sure” to go to Miami.

He’s still gonna listen to Dallas, New Jersey and the Clippers, right? And that says nothing of his supposed struggle over leaving Ohio.

I’m not going to ponder how sad / disappointing it is until it’s something greater than rumor from Stephen A Smith of all people.

٩(͡๏̯͡๏)۶ Dum spiro spero... | Twitter: @andrewjstone.

by AndrewJStone on Jun 29, 2010 10:57 AM CDT up reply actions  

I would say that one positive was Wells but the Pirates suck so bad

I don’t know if he was that good or they just suck that much offensively.

"I don't know what the big deal about Crackerjack is"

by theGraceyslumpbuster on Jun 29, 2010 9:27 AM CDT reply actions  

I love Zambrano

trying to portray himself as a misunderstood genius.

Dude, you lost your head… again. Just own it.

There is no such thing as an ugly female breast

by Worf on Jun 29, 2010 9:28 AM CDT reply actions  

Agreed.

I wonder if Ozzie is gonna be buying a shingle in the offseason for behavior counseling?

"The ones who want to achieve and win championships motivate themselves." - Da Coach

by Sandberg's evil twin on Jun 29, 2010 9:32 AM CDT up reply actions  

Zambrano is a lyrical genius

He’s the genius of our generation. He understands what a play on words is.

RIP Ronnie James Dio (July 10, 1942 - May 16, 2010).

by Ace Venom on Jun 29, 2010 9:39 AM CDT up reply actions  

Nice crowd last night

The Bleachers were full from my vantage point. But they appeared to be well behaved, even with the $10 Santo Specials. The chill in the air might have helped keep things in order. And a tight, low scoring game.

"They come to see me strike out, hit a home run, or run into a fence. I try to accommodate them at least one way every game." - Gorman Thomas

by RiskyBusiness on Jun 29, 2010 9:29 AM CDT reply actions  

What's up with your avatar Coolio? didja change it? Perhaps my comp is acting up...

"The ones who want to achieve and win championships motivate themselves." - Da Coach

by Sandberg's evil twin on Jun 29, 2010 9:33 AM CDT up reply actions  

No, evil twin, what does it look like?

it should be the anime of the girl pitcher

"Well-behaved women seldom make History"---Laurel Thatcher Ulrich

by cooliogirl47 on Jun 29, 2010 9:43 AM CDT up reply actions  

Yeah ive seen that everyday until now. Just see a red x currently.

"The ones who want to achieve and win championships motivate themselves." - Da Coach

by Sandberg's evil twin on Jun 29, 2010 9:43 AM CDT up reply actions  

Hit F5

RIP Ronnie James Dio (July 10, 1942 - May 16, 2010).

by Ace Venom on Jun 29, 2010 9:51 AM CDT up reply actions  

That worked. Must be my comp. Prolly shoulda just refreshed before saying anything.

"The ones who want to achieve and win championships motivate themselves." - Da Coach

by Sandberg's evil twin on Jun 29, 2010 9:54 AM CDT up reply actions  

ha! you may see the real thing tonight if you're ballhawking

I’ll look for ya if its alright with you

"Well-behaved women seldom make History"---Laurel Thatcher Ulrich

by cooliogirl47 on Jun 29, 2010 10:25 AM CDT up reply actions  

sure thing - look for the red-shirted lefty

though I might be sitting down in the lawn chair an awful lot tonight. Wind is supposed to be blowing in pretty strong from the North. Maybe I’ll bring a good book…

Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."

by ballhawk on Jun 29, 2010 10:36 AM CDT up reply actions  

looks good by me

"They come to see me strike out, hit a home run, or run into a fence. I try to accommodate them at least one way every game." - Gorman Thomas

by RiskyBusiness on Jun 29, 2010 9:49 AM CDT up reply actions  

Well...

…the LF corner did try to start the wave. So I wouldn’t say they were well behaved haha. Al, what say you?

"Pounding sand since 1982...."

by cubswynn on Jun 29, 2010 9:33 AM CDT up reply actions  

rot row...this doesn't sound promising for Al lol

"The ones who want to achieve and win championships motivate themselves." - Da Coach

by Sandberg's evil twin on Jun 29, 2010 9:41 AM CDT up reply actions  

It wasn't bad last night.

It wasn’t in my section, it was the next one over, a couple of feeble attempts which failed.

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al Yellon on Jun 29, 2010 9:44 AM CDT up reply actions  

Sounds like our late inning offense.

"The ones who want to achieve and win championships motivate themselves." - Da Coach

by Sandberg's evil twin on Jun 29, 2010 9:46 AM CDT up reply actions  

"a couple feeble attempts which failed"

a subtitle for the season!

Things work out best for those that make the best out of the way things work out - Coach Wooden

by Allie on Jun 29, 2010 1:44 PM CDT up reply actions  

Thankfully I did not see that

My buddy did observer that the 1-2-3 Strikes You’re Out at the end of the 7th inning stretch was sort of a wave. He said he watched as it started in the LF bleachers and worked it’s way around to my section on the RF corner of the grandstand. Does that count?

"They come to see me strike out, hit a home run, or run into a fence. I try to accommodate them at least one way every game." - Gorman Thomas

by RiskyBusiness on Jun 29, 2010 9:46 AM CDT up reply actions  

I'm a fan of the new wristbands...

… but they need some work on the policies surrounding them. Two of my friends from Iowa still have their vertical “Under 21” IDs that the state issues, and even though they don’t expire when you turn 21 (so it was still a valid form of identification proving these individuals were of legal age to drink), they wouldn’t give them wristbands.

Now, there has to be somebody working on this wristband thing with enough of a presence of mind to say “hey, Iowa has a weird ID policy, but these are people who have the legal right to drink”, right?

I mean, the bars served them after the game, no questions asked…

٩(͡๏̯͡๏)۶ Dum spiro spero... | Twitter: @andrewjstone.

by AndrewJStone on Jun 29, 2010 11:01 AM CDT up reply actions  

So you show me an Under 21 ID you expect to be served beer at Wrigley?

That’s asking a lot from their staff to know the ID policy for each state. If I’m the Cubs, I err on the side of caution there. They have enough people drinking. If your friends want to drink, they should get new IDs so there is no question of their age.

"They come to see me strike out, hit a home run, or run into a fence. I try to accommodate them at least one way every game." - Gorman Thomas

by RiskyBusiness on Jun 29, 2010 11:10 AM CDT up reply actions  

The ID says "UNDER 21" in big red letters...

… right above the person’s birthday, which in the case of both of my friends, had passed.

They serve these ID’s at Soldier Field. One of my friends in question is actually a die-hard Sox fan, and spent the weekend drinking at the Cell without issue. I’ve had friends with these ID’s get served BEFORE the new wristband policy (which i support), and they had no problem anywhere else in Chicago.

٩(͡๏̯͡๏)۶ Dum spiro spero... | Twitter: @andrewjstone.

by AndrewJStone on Jun 29, 2010 11:19 AM CDT up reply actions  

Understand all that

The Cubs staff sees that “UNDER 21” in big red letters and they stop right there.

Better safe than sorry – get new IDs.

"They come to see me strike out, hit a home run, or run into a fence. I try to accommodate them at least one way every game." - Gorman Thomas

by RiskyBusiness on Jun 29, 2010 11:33 AM CDT up reply actions  

Their ID's aren't expired...

… and other businesses seem to have no issues realizing its an UNDER 21 ID belonging to somebody who is no longer UNDER 21. The intention of the licenses being like that isn’t to prevent people of legal age from drinking, it is to bring extra attention to the IDs of people who are in and around the age that they might not be legal.

When Wrigley staff sees them, they should pay an extra second of attention – make sure the photo matches the person so the old “my big brother gave me his old ID trick” doesn’t pass… and then award them the wristband they are entitled to.

٩(͡๏̯͡๏)۶ Dum spiro spero... | Twitter: @andrewjstone.

by AndrewJStone on Jun 29, 2010 11:46 AM CDT up reply actions  

Iowa is bass-ackwards here

And I can say that because I live there. Thankfully they did the entire vertical ids after I would’ve needed one.

by Danwood on Jun 29, 2010 11:44 AM CDT up reply actions  

I barely missed them.

And i’m not convinced they work anyways, having spent 4 years in Iowa City.

٩(͡๏̯͡๏)۶ Dum spiro spero... | Twitter: @andrewjstone.

by AndrewJStone on Jun 29, 2010 11:46 AM CDT up reply actions  

Even if it doesn't expire, you should get a new ID after you turn 21

It’s a no brainer.

RIP Ronnie James Dio (July 10, 1942 - May 16, 2010).

by Ace Venom on Jun 29, 2010 12:04 PM CDT up reply actions  

It doesn't make sense to replace your ID before it's expired, plain and simple.

And in one of my friends cases, she’s in Chicago for an internship and hasn’t been back to Iowa to even have the chance to get a new ID since she turned 21 anyways. She was pretty disappointed to not be able to drink during her first Cubs game as a legal adult.

٩(͡๏̯͡๏)۶ Dum spiro spero... | Twitter: @andrewjstone.

by AndrewJStone on Jun 29, 2010 12:10 PM CDT up reply actions  

Because that would be easy!

I actually understand the rational. Its common for a kid to turn 21 and immediately turn around and sell / give their ID to somebody who isn’t 21 yet, like a little brother or sister.

If they are giving them the vertical “UNDER 21” IDs, it’s worth considerably less, beacuse everywhere that kid goes, he’s got an ID that brings him some more attention, and the bouncer / wristband guy will hopefully double check it to make sure it actually belongs to the person presenting it.

٩(͡๏̯͡๏)۶ Dum spiro spero... | Twitter: @andrewjstone.

by AndrewJStone on Jun 29, 2010 12:38 PM CDT up reply actions  

When they turn 21, why don't they just get new IDs?

Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."

by ballhawk on Jun 29, 2010 11:27 AM CDT up reply actions  

I believe they want to...

keep their residency in Iowa for tuition purposes while living in Chicago for the summer doing internships.

And their ID’s aren’t expired – they can drive on them till they are 25. Nobody else is rejecting these ID’s, or refusing to serve them. When you get your drivers license and you are under the age of 21 in iowa, you get a vertically aligned card with “UNDER 21” on it, even though it’ll be valid well past when you become of age. It’s on you to go replace it sure, but if nobody is refusing to serve you, and you are legally allowed to drive on it, WHY?

٩(͡๏̯͡๏)۶ Dum spiro spero... | Twitter: @andrewjstone.

by AndrewJStone on Jun 29, 2010 11:42 AM CDT up reply actions  

What I don't understand is...

… why you wouldn’t be able to get a different license on your 21st birthday.

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al Yellon on Jun 29, 2010 11:52 AM CDT up reply actions  

I'm sure it's allowed, but....

What i don’t understand is why ONE venue, Wrigley Field, has a different set of rules surrounding these sort of licenses than about anywhere else in the world?

I think its reasonable to suspect that this new wristband policy simply isn’t fully flushed out yet, which was the basis for my complaint. I shouldn’t have to warn all my friends from Iowa aged 21 – 25 to go spend an afternoon at the DMV if they want a beer at Wrigley… Wrigley should adjust it’s rules so that it isn’t an inconvenience for a bunch of legal fans to give the team $7 for a beer they have every right to drink. Everybody else seems to have it figured out, including bars and rooftops only yards from the field.

٩(͡๏̯͡๏)۶ Dum spiro spero... | Twitter: @andrewjstone.

by AndrewJStone on Jun 29, 2010 12:03 PM CDT up reply actions  

Yep, good policy, not-so-great execution

The crowd control personnel may not be fully trained in the various forms of ID cards. Definitely not as well as a a season bartender in Wrigleyville.

"They come to see me strike out, hit a home run, or run into a fence. I try to accommodate them at least one way every game." - Gorman Thomas

by RiskyBusiness on Jun 29, 2010 12:17 PM CDT up reply actions  

Cubs have always had this policy

Yes, it’s annoying, but it is nothing new. For next time they know they need new licenses.

by JSB on Jun 29, 2010 12:05 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions  

No, they haven't.

It’s new to the wristbands. Before it was up to the discretion of the person serving the beverage, and trust me – it wasn’t a problem.

Apparently the beer guys can determine what the wristband guys aren’t grasping.

٩(͡๏̯͡๏)۶ Dum spiro spero... | Twitter: @andrewjstone.

by AndrewJStone on Jun 29, 2010 12:08 PM CDT up reply actions  

I couldn't tell what Z was screaming or to whom,

but what was most distressing to me was the ugly, crazed contortions of his face. He looked psychotic.

One of Lee Elia's 15%

by waiting4cubs on Jun 29, 2010 9:33 AM CDT reply actions  

I've been careful not to excuse Zambrano's actions

and I still won’t. Chances are good this therapy will not have the desired effect, because Z will not give it his all. Also, I don’t know much about anger therapy, per se.

But please, let’s recognize that many men have anger issues. Some of them are related to clinical depression, others to habits built up over the years. I hope if anyone here knows someone who needs anger counseling, they would still recommend it, no matter what happens with a highly visible individual.

Somebody take Aramis' bat off the restricted list, please.

by cubzfan on Jun 29, 2010 9:34 AM CDT reply actions  

He obviously

has had the resources ever since he became a professional. It appears also the only anger he has is with his team, not his family or his home. I guess you could say a “selected anger”

by Grockcubs on Jun 29, 2010 10:05 AM CDT up reply actions  

Meant to say

the resources to get the problem corrected.

by Grockcubs on Jun 29, 2010 10:06 AM CDT up reply actions  

Biggest issue...

…is Hendry let his behavior go without doing anything about it years ago. Being the player friendly GM he is, he helped to create the situation he has to deal with today.

"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel

by MPH73 on Jun 29, 2010 10:07 AM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

Unfortunately, we don't know that this is all work-related

However, even if it is, anger among well-to-do men comes out more at work, because they cushion themselves from stress at home, preferring escapism to interaction. They can’t avoid interaction at work, especially if they answer to someone.

Again, I was trying to take the spotlight off Z for a moment to highlight that therapy to deal with anger can be beneficial for many people, regardless of what happens with Zambrano.

Somebody take Aramis' bat off the restricted list, please.

by cubzfan on Jun 29, 2010 10:11 AM CDT up reply actions  

Anger management is definitely a problem. So is alcohol, probably the most addictive drug there is.

I’ve only made fun of Z with it because celebrities and athletes seem to use these and treatment for it as scapegoats for irresponsible behavior without every genuinely trying to address an addiction or anger problem. Anger management is something a lot of men and some women have problems with, I hope anyone who does deal with it does get help because it can ruin their lives and many loved ones around them.

"The ones who want to achieve and win championships motivate themselves." - Da Coach

by Sandberg's evil twin on Jun 29, 2010 10:23 AM CDT up reply actions  

My biggest issue is that it was mandated

You can’t force someone into therapy. It doesn’t work that way. Especially with someone who is as stubborn as Zambrano is. Plus true therapy takes at least a year to see any obvious improvements.

He will come back in a few months and they can trade him and say “look he’s better”. Or keep him and say he’s changed.

Therapy is a very useful tool, but not in the way that they are using it.

by gizmo6d9 on Jun 29, 2010 11:02 AM CDT up reply actions  

Photo caption

“Ramirez at bat sure has been citi this year.”

Somebody take Aramis' bat off the restricted list, please.

by cubzfan on Jun 29, 2010 10:12 AM CDT reply actions   1 recs

This team's a joke.

And I’m just hanging on for the ride of comedy.

"The riches of the game are in the thrills, not the money." --Ernie Banks

by dtpollitt on Jun 29, 2010 10:15 AM CDT reply actions  

The Pirates? Say It Ain't So.

 I have not heard a thing about Rudy the Great Hitting Coach. He was the Cubs’ great off-season aquistion. But when Dotel the Great, he of 4.85 ERA and much wildness, gets 3 swinging strikeouts in the 9th of hitters who wouldn’t know a strike zone if they were standing on home plate, you have to ask, “Where is Rudy?” Did he put on the Kryptonite uniform and suddenly become the worst hitting coach in baseball, or are the players he inherited just uncoachable?

Iwastherein69

by Iwastherein69 on Jun 29, 2010 10:18 AM CDT reply actions  

Rudy worked in Texas

They have a pretty hitter friendly ballpark there, so I would have taken any praise of Rudy with a grain of salt. And now that you see the results in a ballpark like Wrigley, which is notoriously bipolar, you see just how overrated Rudy truly is.

RIP Ronnie James Dio (July 10, 1942 - May 16, 2010).

by Ace Venom on Jun 29, 2010 10:21 AM CDT up reply actions  

I've repeatedly blamed the players

But Jim Hendry in his desire to throw an insane amount of money at every problem, overpaid for a Texas Rangers hitting coach. That really worked.

RIP Ronnie James Dio (July 10, 1942 - May 16, 2010).

by Ace Venom on Jun 29, 2010 10:42 AM CDT up reply actions  

The club couldn't afford to make a real change

So they made it seem as though signing “the best!” hitting coach in the game would improve last year’s disappointing showing.

by shoemile on Jun 29, 2010 2:12 PM CDT up reply actions  

By the way, those $10 Ron Santo Special bleacher tickets?

My wife bought two of them the other day for a grand total of almost $36. That’s right – that’s almost 80% of taxes, fees, and extra charges added on. It seems the only appropriate response would be to say…

Aw GEEZ! Gosh darn it! Boy, oh boy…

[heavy sigh]

Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."

by ballhawk on Jun 29, 2010 10:33 AM CDT reply actions  

Having enjoyed a game for $10 last night, there are SO MANY REASONS these are a bad idea.

I had a group of a half dozen non-Cubs fans going with me to the game last night on this $10 offer, but my REAL Cubs fan friends are LIVID that they paid $60+ for the same tickets back in April. Think those fans will make that mistake again next season?

So now you’ve got the people who WERE willing to shell out $60 for your product repeatedly over the span of a season vowing to not buy again, just so you could lure six lesser fans in for $10 a pop.

We are seeing this in the concert industry BIG TIME right now… the 10,000 pound promoting gorilla Live Nation (does the Wrigley Field shows, owns House of Blues, Northerly Island, First Midwest Bank, Alpine… and thousands more venues around the world) spent all of last summer desperate to push tickets out to poorly selling tours, so they kept discounting and discounting and discounting, eliminating fees, doing BOGO offers, “Family 4-Packs”… and it worked, they had a decent summer attendance wise, and those fans tend to be less reluctant to buy the $12 beers (no, i’m not exagerating – anybody who has been to a LN ampitheatre show this summer knows) and $35 dollar t-shirts when they got in for next to nothing. Solid strategy, right?

Well, no. The unintended consequence was they drove down the perceived value of their product. Now, fans aren’t buying in advance, because doing so left them feeling burned, when two days before the show they realized they paid 500% what lesser fans who waited till last minute were having to invest for the same thing.

At the very least, they shouldn’t be doing this for the GA section of their park. Blow out $10 tickets, but make those people sit in the crappy seats, so there remains an incentive to buy the more expensive tickets in advance next time.

٩(͡๏̯͡๏)۶ Dum spiro spero... | Twitter: @andrewjstone.

by AndrewJStone on Jun 29, 2010 11:34 AM CDT up reply actions  

I have said little about this up to now.

You mentioned “livid”. That might begin to describe how I feel about the 80% discount.

I won’t say anything more right now, because it might blow all your monitors to pieces.

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al Yellon on Jun 29, 2010 11:54 AM CDT up reply actions  

LOL...CAPITALISM!!!!!!

As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.

by santoswoodenlegs on Jun 29, 2010 11:56 AM CDT up reply actions  

Yeah, right.

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al Yellon on Jun 29, 2010 12:38 PM CDT up reply actions  

If they keep these sort of discounts going through the summer...

… i’m betting we’ll see the loosest ticket market in years next season. Especially if the team shows little promise.

٩(͡๏̯͡๏)۶ Dum spiro spero... | Twitter: @andrewjstone.

by AndrewJStone on Jun 29, 2010 12:06 PM CDT up reply actions  

I'm thrilled!!! ;)

"Well-behaved women seldom make History"---Laurel Thatcher Ulrich

by cooliogirl47 on Jun 29, 2010 12:15 PM CDT up reply actions  

No.

Not here.

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al Yellon on Jun 29, 2010 12:38 PM CDT up reply actions  

Not here in this thread, or not here ever?

I’d love to hear any and all opinions on this, as i find it very interesting in light of what’s going on in my industry.

I do believe that the Cubs have an ace-in-the-hole defense against this that Live Nation doesn’t possess in their concert promoting business – the ability to start putting out a desirable product.

The music industry isn’t doing themselves any favors by pretty much having two kinds of tour: the classic act playing their hits for hundreds of dollars that the common fan can’t afford, or the one hit wonder record label invention hiding behind backup dancers, pyro, and an entire concert pre-dubbed to a hard drive.

If the cubs somehow magically didn’t suck going in to next year, there would be no expectation that $10 tickets would exist again, and everything would be OK. But now that the team has set the president of deep discounts, people WILL be inclined to wait if they feel the on-field product isn’t worth face value.

Having the most expensive tickets in baseball doesn’t help much either, i suppose.

٩(͡๏̯͡๏)۶ Dum spiro spero... | Twitter: @andrewjstone.

by AndrewJStone on Jun 29, 2010 12:43 PM CDT up reply actions  

Here's about as much as I will say here.

… I figured the Cubs would discount tickets later this year, as sales were down at least in part due to high prices.

But 80% off? And ONLY for bleacher tickets? A real slap in the face to bleacher season ticket holders.

That’s all I am going to say at this time.

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al Yellon on Jun 29, 2010 12:46 PM CDT up reply actions  

Snark not called for here.

Seriously.

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al Yellon on Jun 29, 2010 1:16 PM CDT up reply actions  

Doing it in the GA section is astounding.

Probably less work for the box office, sure – but if the goal is to get butts in seats (ideally so they’ll buy beer and merch) without destroying the perceived value of the ticket, the $10 investment should get you a nice cozy spot in the 500’s.

٩(͡๏̯͡๏)۶ Dum spiro spero... | Twitter: @andrewjstone.

by AndrewJStone on Jun 29, 2010 12:55 PM CDT up reply actions  

DINGDINGDING!

Winner.

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al Yellon on Jun 29, 2010 1:16 PM CDT up reply actions  

Those 500's were empty last night too.

Not “we’ve gotta sell 10,000 tickets” empty (i believe the Santo promo was capped at 10,000), but still.

٩(͡๏̯͡๏)۶ Dum spiro spero... | Twitter: @andrewjstone.

by AndrewJStone on Jun 29, 2010 1:18 PM CDT up reply actions  

The Santo promo was not "capped at 10,000".

It was bleacher tickets only. I suspect they might have had 1,000 tops.

The far corners of the upper deck and corners of the lower deck were empty. 38,512 is about 2500 below capacity, not too bad.

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al Yellon on Jun 29, 2010 1:38 PM CDT up reply actions  

Aren't 500-level tkts a lot closer to $10 than bleachers?

If so, that may not be enough discount to get butts in the seats, plus….IMO (and only my opinion) a bleacher ticket holder is likely to buy more concessions than those in the 500-level.

Just win the next game...!

by blackhawk24 on Jun 29, 2010 1:20 PM CDT up reply actions  

Yes, but that is sort of my point.

Maybe less people would have bought if it was 500’s instead of bleachers, but the long term effect of giving 80% discounts to those who AREN’T big enough fans to buy early (and thusly, alienating guys like Al) probably won’t be worth the extra cash they took in last night anyways, especially if the team continues to flounder.

They might have sold less seats for the 500’s (maybe make them $5 instead up there? i’d have gone for that as well, as would have my friends), but no season ticket holder would be upset at the arrangement – and the season ticket holders and regular buyers who go all in on their credit card in march are who the team should be worried about, not my Sox fan friends in from Iowa for the weekend series on the South Side who just wanted to see Wrigley once and likely won’t ever spend another dollar on the Cubs again.

٩(͡๏̯͡๏)۶ Dum spiro spero... | Twitter: @andrewjstone.

by AndrewJStone on Jun 29, 2010 1:29 PM CDT up reply actions  

It was for one game....

As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.

by santoswoodenlegs on Jun 29, 2010 1:30 PM CDT up reply actions  

It isn't for one game.

Its the entire home stand, June 28 – July 4.

And just because this is the first time doesn’t mean it’ll be the last. I see no indication that attendance will pick up after the 4th of July weekend.

Hey, i’m all for it as a fan who didn’t buy my normal 20 or so games before the season started (i saw this coming, having watched it in concerts). But from the team’s perspective, it could be a huge misstep.

٩(͡๏̯͡๏)۶ Dum spiro spero... | Twitter: @andrewjstone.

by AndrewJStone on Jun 29, 2010 1:33 PM CDT up reply actions  

nice!!!

Just win the next game...!

by blackhawk24 on Jun 29, 2010 1:33 PM CDT up reply actions  

I know you're pissed and I can sympathize

really…. but the Cubs can fix all this by simply being a better team.

Then again, if everyone here really wants cheap tickets all the time, then hope they such swamp water for several years in a row and ticket prices will decline.

Just win the next game...!

by blackhawk24 on Jun 29, 2010 1:35 PM CDT up reply actions  

A risk you take as a ST holder

in somewhat the same fashion as not even being able to get face value for the same tkts if you had to sell and could not go. It’s a [money-losing] risk all ST’s could face.

Just win the next game...!

by blackhawk24 on Jun 29, 2010 1:23 PM CDT up reply actions  

Yes, but getting screwed by the secondary market is one thing.

Getting screwed by the primary ticket seller is another.

٩(͡๏̯͡๏)۶ Dum spiro spero... | Twitter: @andrewjstone.

by AndrewJStone on Jun 29, 2010 1:30 PM CDT up reply actions  

You're right, I know, I get it

I’m getting screwed too. Though my hit on ST’s is less than Al’s, me and my 5 tkt partners for IF club box seats (which req’d a check for ~$32k back in February from the guy that I buy from) are also taking a hit. It’s a risk, I get it. I simply try to just deal with it.

Just win the next game...!

by blackhawk24 on Jun 29, 2010 1:32 PM CDT up reply actions  

It's a risk you take as a ST holder

When the product sucks and the demand goes down, prices will inevitably go down. I know it sucks but so do the Cubs.

I took advantage of the $10 tkts to bring my daughter to Thursdays’ game. I actually feel sorry for my club-box ST-holder partner as he’s stuck with $90 tkts. But then again, the 6 of us are STUCK with those tkts for many games. So we either eat half the cost by selling way low, eat the total cost and don’t even go or suck it up, go and try to have a good time anyway.

It has now got to the point this season that my expectations are so low, what I really look forward to is looking at the ivy, scoreboard and telling my kid some Wrigley history.

Just win the next game...!

by blackhawk24 on Jun 29, 2010 1:30 PM CDT up reply actions  

I cant wait to see the Toyota sign!

"Well-behaved women seldom make History"---Laurel Thatcher Ulrich

by cooliogirl47 on Jun 29, 2010 1:31 PM CDT up reply actions  

It's not as obnoxious as I would have thought

I sat in sect 208 during the Oak series and it really didn’t bother me too much at all.

Just win the next game...!

by blackhawk24 on Jun 29, 2010 1:33 PM CDT up reply actions  

Agreed. As somebody who hated the idea, it wasn't quite the eyesore i imagined.

Still annoyed it’s not even pulling enough to pay for what we are giving Aaron Miles this season though.

٩(͡๏̯͡๏)۶ Dum spiro spero... | Twitter: @andrewjstone.

by AndrewJStone on Jun 29, 2010 1:35 PM CDT up reply actions  

it gets worse, Al.

Talked to some people last night whose company (which they wouldn’t tell me the name of) was called by the Cubs and asked if they’d like some tickets to the Pirates series. They said yes and they received 15 FREE terrace reserve tickets for each of the three games. So it was my pleasure to sit in my season ticket seats which I’ve paid for for over 20 seasons next to people who had been given free seats by the very crappy team I paid to watch last night.

Sure happy season ticket holder appreciation day is coming up soon. I guess it’s too much to hope that they give all of us our money back, huh?

by the nth on Jun 29, 2010 1:33 PM CDT up reply actions  

Wow.

That’s so backwards I can’t even begin to tell you.

Most teams give season ticket holders a break. We get screwed.

I. Am. Not. Happy. With. This. At. All.

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al Yellon on Jun 29, 2010 1:39 PM CDT up reply actions  

You're dealing with a private owner now Al

No corporate conglomerate who can move numbers all over the place on the PnL’s. Also a corporation that saw the value of the franchise go up over 100x while they were owners.

When the place was filled come hell or high water the last several seasons, it really put into place the ability for them to charge what they want.

NOW, with a “single family” owner and someone who is well aware of the PnL’s, AND the chance we have finally found the breaking point of ticket sales versus ticket prices, this is a likely outcome.

Looking at Andrew’s comments, it sure makes sense for them to do this rather than having loads of empty seats or giving away tkts on the street.

It’s like on the airplane. Do you really think EVERYONE paid the same price for the same tkt on the same plane to the same city that you did?

Just win the next game...!

by blackhawk24 on Jun 29, 2010 1:45 PM CDT up reply actions  

No, the airplane analogy doesn't wash.

I have never seen a sports team treat its season ticket holders worse than someone who comes up at the last minute and buys a ticket for 80% off full price.

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al Yellon on Jun 29, 2010 1:52 PM CDT up reply actions  

So you know no team does this?

Hate to disappoint but it happens everywhere.

BTW, what do you think is the business model is for Priceline & Hot Wire?

Just win the next game...!

by blackhawk24 on Jun 29, 2010 1:58 PM CDT up reply actions  

Name one other baseball team that has done this...

… screw over its season ticket holders by discounting tickets by 80%.

Comparisons to priceline and hotwire are irrelevant. Sports tickets aren’t sold by those methods.

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al Yellon on Jun 29, 2010 1:59 PM CDT up reply actions  

I don't know teams that do this now

but the Blackhawks discounted tickets when they were bad a few years ago. Tickets were even given away in public fashion. OK, so you’ll now argue that’s not the same.

But the fact of the matter is they’re trying to generate revenue. They either take a total loss on the ticket or get something for it and the possibility of some concessions.

Like I said before, it’s a risk to ST-holders.

And how is Priceline not relevant. They help put bodies in the seats or in the rooms that would not otherwise be there.

Come on, I expect this anti-Capitalism crap from Jessica, but from you?

If it makes you feel better, I’m not too happy about the $32k paid for (4) IF club-boxes. Granted the personal payout for me is likely less than your bleacher ST’s but it is what it is: $8k for one IF club-box. Yeah, they’re not giving those away publicly and I don’t know if it’s done behind closed doors but guess what I can simply choose to not buy tickets next season.

Just win the next game...!

by blackhawk24 on Jun 29, 2010 2:10 PM CDT up reply actions  

There's part of the difference.

ONLY bleacher tickets are being discounted. Why not sell ALL unsold tickets at 80% off?

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al Yellon on Jun 29, 2010 2:28 PM CDT up reply actions  

It would make much more sense to sell the discounted tickets

from the cheapest sections first.

And especially not to the general admission section, where you’re going to have the people getting the cheap tickets battling for seats with the people that paid 5x the price.

I understand the rationale behind selling discounted tickets, I just don’t think they did it in the right manner.

by madcow256 on Jun 29, 2010 2:32 PM CDT up reply actions  

As I said somewhere in here...

… I figured they’d start discounting at some point.

But not by 80%.

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al Yellon on Jun 29, 2010 2:35 PM CDT up reply actions  

Isn't it just a cutesy

giveaway to honor Ron?

Things work out best for those that make the best out of the way things work out - Coach Wooden

by Allie on Jun 29, 2010 5:42 PM CDT up reply actions  

I suspect Ron's 50th...

… is a cutesy excuse to discount tickets, not the other way around.

٩(͡๏̯͡๏)۶ Dum spiro spero... | Twitter: @andrewjstone.

by AndrewJStone on Jun 29, 2010 7:37 PM CDT up reply actions  

Maybe those were corporate giveaways

like one of the others mentioned, think it was Andrew…..

Just win the next game...!

by blackhawk24 on Jun 29, 2010 2:44 PM CDT up reply actions  

The Pirates, D'Backs and other teams

have done this. Right now you can get two free tickets when you buy for one for D’Backs games.

Frequently it is tied to some unrelated event so that it somewhat disguises the fact it is an across the board discount. Last year, I think the Pirates did like, $8 tickets if the team won on a particular Sunday when they were on the road. The discounted tickets were for the following home stand.

by azjazzman on Jun 29, 2010 3:40 PM CDT up reply actions  

The Padres are

knocking 5-bucks off any seat purchased on-line. Not the 80% discount, but…

by San Diego Smooth Jazz Man on Jun 29, 2010 3:53 PM CDT up reply actions  

No, not 80%

but if there was a team in baseball right now that deserves to have patrons paying full price for tickets, it’s gotta be the Pads.

Just shows that this is a combination of the economy as well as performance on the field.

by azjazzman on Jun 29, 2010 4:09 PM CDT up reply actions  

It's called "papering the house" in the concert world...

… and it is an ultimate last sign of desperation. You do this when you don’t want paying customers to feel like they are at an event that is “uncool”. It’s generally kept to shows where perception is a big thing (think a 13 year old girl seeing empty seats at a Fall Out Boy show and realizing it wasn’t the hip thing to do anymore).

I got screwed on a Brooks and Dunn concert i was promoting once (don’t ask…) and had instructions from the agent to blow out about 7000 tickets in the week leading up to the show. This was the exact strategy we took – no giving them away to people on the street, as that ruins the perception that the tickets are worth something.

Instead, you “partner” with businesses, charities, radio stations, and more so that it is framed as though THOSE entities are giving the tickets away to their best employees, fans, donors…

Saves face, i guess.

٩(͡๏̯͡๏)۶ Dum spiro spero... | Twitter: @andrewjstone.

by AndrewJStone on Jun 29, 2010 1:39 PM CDT up reply actions  

I don't think you can really compare concert sales like this with baseball sales.

First, concerts don’t have season ticket holders. Second, there are many, many more baseball events than events on any concert tour.

Third, you don’t screw over your season ticket holders who have literally spent tens of thousands of dollars over the years on this team, in order to put a few hundred more butts in the seats so you can sell overpriced beer.

I’m beyond livid now.

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al Yellon on Jun 29, 2010 1:41 PM CDT up reply actions  

Probably not.

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al Yellon on Jun 29, 2010 1:43 PM CDT up reply actions  

Why would you think he wouldn't?

As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.

by santoswoodenlegs on Jun 29, 2010 1:44 PM CDT up reply actions  

Because he's in Africa.

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al Yellon on Jun 29, 2010 1:52 PM CDT up reply actions  

How long has he been there?

This was announced, i believe, on the 22nd… had to have been at least some lead time.

And i still don’t buy in to the idea that a guy in Africa is incapable of knowing what is going on in Chicago. Like i said the other day, i skype with my dad in Morocco, and i’m not even a billionaire, just a dude with a laptop.

٩(͡๏̯͡๏)۶ Dum spiro spero... | Twitter: @andrewjstone.

by AndrewJStone on Jun 29, 2010 1:55 PM CDT up reply actions  

I'm sort of inclined to assume...

… that Ricketts not only knew, but probably had some part in making this happen. After all, we didn’t see promos like this under the Trib, and there were certainly points towards the end of last season that it may have been justified.

٩(͡๏̯͡๏)۶ Dum spiro spero... | Twitter: @andrewjstone.

by AndrewJStone on Jun 29, 2010 1:56 PM CDT up reply actions  

Wow

You think the Cubs decided to have a $10 Ron Santo ticket special for several games without running at least the concept by Ricketts? And I don’t care where he is – I’m sure he’s still reachable.

Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."

by ballhawk on Jun 29, 2010 1:55 PM CDT up reply actions  

Reachable or not, being halfway around the world puts you out of touch.

Like, with the fans who are getting REAL restless.

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al Yellon on Jun 29, 2010 1:57 PM CDT up reply actions  

I received news from my family when I was in Africa

And I’m not a multi-millionaire. It would amaze me if Ricketts didn’t have a 10 minute daily call to hear about that goings on of the organization.

by madcow256 on Jun 29, 2010 1:58 PM CDT up reply actions  

You bet he did

He didn’t become a multi-billionaire by accident.

Just win the next game...!

by blackhawk24 on Jun 29, 2010 1:47 PM CDT up reply actions  

Its' still all about fannies in the seats

Where Ricketts could lose his ass near term is if the team doesn’t make some serious changes on and off the field this fall AND sucks next season on the field.

Just win the next game...!

by blackhawk24 on Jun 29, 2010 1:46 PM CDT up reply actions  

You betcha...

…and the luster of Wrigley will wear thin sooner than most think if the team continues down the current path.

"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel

by MPH73 on Jun 29, 2010 3:44 PM CDT up reply actions  

The markets for concert and sport tickets are a bit different...

… but replace “season ticket holders” with “die-hards who buy in to artist fan clubs or purchase via presale” and you are basically doing the same thing – screwing your most dedicated fans.

And the fact that there are a lot more baseball games than Jonas Brothers concerts in Chicago this summer doesn’t mean much other than this is even a BIGGER screwing of Cubs fans, because instead of getting hosed on one lone event, they are getting hosed on multiple.

٩(͡๏̯͡๏)۶ Dum spiro spero... | Twitter: @andrewjstone.

by AndrewJStone on Jun 29, 2010 1:49 PM CDT up reply actions  

I think you & I are in general agreement on the concept...

… which is, as a business you should not be pissing off your best customers.

Which they are in the process of doing.

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al Yellon on Jun 29, 2010 1:53 PM CDT up reply actions  

Oh yeah, we absolutly agree.

And the fact that both a season ticket holder and somebody without season tickets this year, but with something of an understanding of the dynamics of the ticketing market, see eye to eye on this, leaves me even more confused as to why they did it.

Where was their marketing guy? Where were their season ticket holder liaisons?

Glad i didn’t stop by and go waving my $10 ticket in your face last night. :-)

٩(͡๏̯͡๏)۶ Dum spiro spero... | Twitter: @andrewjstone.

by AndrewJStone on Jun 29, 2010 1:59 PM CDT up reply actions  

Sigh.

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al Yellon on Jun 29, 2010 2:00 PM CDT up reply actions  

I promise to keep mine in my pocket :D

"Well-behaved women seldom make History"---Laurel Thatcher Ulrich

by cooliogirl47 on Jun 29, 2010 2:03 PM CDT up reply actions  

It's all good Al.

Eventually, there will be another 2007 / 2008 sort of run, and i’ll be the poor bastard outside giving some scalper 150% of face to get in.

You can count on it.

٩(͡๏̯͡๏)۶ Dum spiro spero... | Twitter: @andrewjstone.

by AndrewJStone on Jun 29, 2010 2:03 PM CDT up reply actions  

For sure.

I hope this is more of a “hey, we are new to running a business with ticket holders” mistake than a sign of how things will be from now on.

٩(͡๏̯͡๏)۶ Dum spiro spero... | Twitter: @andrewjstone.

by AndrewJStone on Jun 29, 2010 2:12 PM CDT up reply actions  

I'll be really interested to see what the next move is.

Because this one wasn’t real well thought out.

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al Yellon on Jun 29, 2010 2:28 PM CDT up reply actions  

I think the marketing guy was out putting up a sign by the noodle that says
For Your Safety,
Do Not Climb on
the Noodle.

Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."

by ballhawk on Jun 29, 2010 2:01 PM CDT up reply actions  

You know, for kids!

I spent 90% of my money on women and drink. The rest I wasted - George Best

by Blue W on Jun 29, 2010 2:04 PM CDT up reply actions  

Awesome movie - my Coen Brothers favorite

I'll go to my grave believing Armando Galarraga tossed the 21st perfect game in MLB history.

by EalyEagle on Jun 29, 2010 3:17 PM CDT up reply actions  

Mine's "Miller's Crossing"

With “Raising Arizona” a sentimental close second.

"Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have?" -Frank Chance
"If [Ruth] had [called his shot], I would have knocked him down with the next pitch." -Charlie Root

by Clutch16 on Jun 29, 2010 3:29 PM CDT up reply actions  

My wife is pretty pissed about this as well...

…when I told her. She suggested that they refund the price of each $10 ticket split among the season ticket holders, they can keep the concession revenue.

It really is a sharp stick in the eye as a 10 year ticket holder, I can’t imagine how you must feel.

Jack
derv

by derv on Jun 29, 2010 7:14 PM CDT up reply actions  

Which of these is the Cubs?
the classic act playing their hits for hundreds of dollars that the common fan can’t afford, or the one hit wonder record label invention hiding behind backup dancers, pyro, and an entire concert pre-dubbed to a hard drive.

Ans is it just me or does Gordon Beckham = Justin Bieber?

"They come to see me strike out, hit a home run, or run into a fence. I try to accommodate them at least one way every game." - Gorman Thomas

by RiskyBusiness on Jun 29, 2010 12:52 PM CDT up reply actions  

If you whisper in may ear, I won't tell anyone...


"A waist is a terrible thing to mind." - Terry 'Fat Tub of Goo' Forster

by eths on Jun 29, 2010 12:22 PM CDT up reply actions  

That Ticket Math does see bad

Per $10 ticket listed on Cubs.com it works out to:

Amusement tax of 12% = $1.20
Sales tax of 9% = $0.90
Remaining Convenience Fee =$4.01
Order Processing Fee = $3.75 (same price for 1 ticket or more)

A total Convenience Fee of $6.11 per $10 ticket is nuts.

"They come to see me strike out, hit a home run, or run into a fence. I try to accommodate them at least one way every game." - Gorman Thomas

by RiskyBusiness on Jun 29, 2010 12:51 PM CDT up reply actions  

It's sort of like that for ST berm tkts

My bud who gets our tkts long before we ever head out to AZ each spring makes it a point to stop by HoHoKam (or other ST park) to avoid the fees. This past spring it would have been like $5 worth of fees for each $8 berm tkt.

Just win the next game...!

by blackhawk24 on Jun 29, 2010 1:21 PM CDT up reply actions  

Doggie Stalker

does this, too. I believe she told me that she calls the Hohokam ticket office to purchase tickets and doesn’t have to pay the ticket fees.

She will no doubt correct this if I am misremembering.

by azjazzman on Jun 29, 2010 3:27 PM CDT up reply actions  

You're a trend setter!

"Nothing can happen till you swing the bat."
-Haruko Haruhara

by windycitywarrior on Jun 29, 2010 11:13 AM CDT up reply actions  

And I'm still a Ryan Theriot supporter

RIP Ronnie James Dio (July 10, 1942 - May 16, 2010).

by Ace Venom on Jun 29, 2010 11:14 AM CDT up reply actions  

Years of giving his best to the franchise

And I’ll never forget him scoring the winning run of the College World Series ten years ago. He’s not a superstar, but he’s a sentimental favorite.

RIP Ronnie James Dio (July 10, 1942 - May 16, 2010).

by Ace Venom on Jun 29, 2010 12:02 PM CDT up reply actions  

His effort and desire to give it his all went down a lot to me when he

gave that aggressive quote to the media. If he said it without thinking, didn’t mean it later, or hadn’t realized how stupid it was, I sure haven’t seen him say anything different since.

"The ones who want to achieve and win championships motivate themselves." - Da Coach

by Sandberg's evil twin on Jun 29, 2010 12:12 PM CDT up reply actions  

Discounting a player's on-field performance

because of an off hand remark to the media, is well, bizarre.

Then again, maybe not. I briefly forgot this is a Cubs blog.

by azjazzman on Jun 29, 2010 12:16 PM CDT up reply actions  

I was a bit annoyed by it at the time

But I think he’s just trying to get hits at this point and when you have a team that’s not employing the long ball so much, hits have the potential to serve you better than a walk could. The missed part about taking a walk is that if you have a runner on first, you can only get him to second with the walk. You might get him to third with the hit or fielder’s choice. You also run the risk of a double play, but the batter following you might also hit into a double play.

I’m not arguing against taking walks because this team as a whole could take more of them. But it seems as if the team has been coached to take a more aggressive approach at the plate. Either way, taking more walks isn’t going to solve the team’s problems at the plate.

RIP Ronnie James Dio (July 10, 1942 - May 16, 2010).

by Ace Venom on Jun 29, 2010 12:22 PM CDT up reply actions  

But you'd swear with the way people talked around here that Ryan Theriot is the only problem with this team

Just like Milton Bradley was the only problem with the Cubs in 2009. Just like Carlos Zambrano absolutely has to go because readers at BCB think he should go. The Cubs aren’t in the dumpster because Ryan Theriot has a 66 OPS+

RIP Ronnie James Dio (July 10, 1942 - May 16, 2010).

by Ace Venom on Jun 29, 2010 12:27 PM CDT up reply actions  

They're not far off

Derrek Lee and Aramis Ramirez consistently escape criticism despite not pulling their own weight this season. For the life of me, I don’t get why they’re not being crucified this much. I don’t consider Ryan Theriot to be more than he is: a singles hitter.

RIP Ronnie James Dio (July 10, 1942 - May 16, 2010).

by Ace Venom on Jun 29, 2010 12:32 PM CDT up reply actions  

Maybe I should reword it

Or not. I don’t really care to. What I’m saying is that it seems they’re struggles keep being swept under the rug. Lee gets coddled around here for being a team leader and Ramirez is just doing really bad. I don’t see miles and miles of posts describing how horrible of a season that Aramis Ramirez is, but the minute Ryan Theriot makes a mistake, there are miles and miles of discussion about it.

RIP Ronnie James Dio (July 10, 1942 - May 16, 2010).

by Ace Venom on Jun 29, 2010 12:35 PM CDT up reply actions  

God forbid Theriot has any defenders

RIP Ronnie James Dio (July 10, 1942 - May 16, 2010).

by Ace Venom on Jun 29, 2010 12:39 PM CDT up reply actions  

I've never had a problem with you defending him Ace.

I just reserve the right to criticize him. And I surely do criticize other players’ performances on here often I believe.

"The ones who want to achieve and win championships motivate themselves." - Da Coach

by Sandberg's evil twin on Jun 29, 2010 12:52 PM CDT up reply actions  

I criticize the guy too

But at the same time, the Theriot hate is pretty mind boggling.

RIP Ronnie James Dio (July 10, 1942 - May 16, 2010).

by Ace Venom on Jun 29, 2010 12:53 PM CDT up reply actions  

I surely don't hate him.

I think he’s a good guy and wants to do well, seems to hustle. It does seem contrary to me that he wants to win yet ignores very sensible advice about walks when performing badly (at the time he made the remarks)….implying if not stating he knows better.

"The ones who want to achieve and win championships motivate themselves." - Da Coach

by Sandberg's evil twin on Jun 29, 2010 12:58 PM CDT up reply actions  

Ah, but they are

I tease Doggie Stalker all the time about the ‘scapegoat’ mentality of BCB. There always has to be a whipping boy. And it all starts with Al.

It has already been pointed out that Al’s focus on Theriot not laying down a squeeze bunt in yesterday’s game is a little odd when you can point to many much more damaging failings, such as Colvin misplaying a fly ball.

But, Theriot is this year’s BCB whipping boy, so he gets the blame, fair or not. He even, apparently, gets the blame for not laying down a squeeze bunt even when one was not called by the manager.

by azjazzman on Jun 29, 2010 12:35 PM CDT up reply actions  

Fine, blame the manager then.

But people yell at me when I do that, too.

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al Yellon on Jun 29, 2010 12:39 PM CDT up reply actions  

Squeeze play = high risk

If Lou calls a squeeze there, given what you said about the situation screaming for it, and then the Pirates pitch out and the runner is tagged out…then you’d blame Lou for that.

Bottom line = team loses, BCB has to find whipping boy,

Reality = the team is failing as a team, no individual is primarily responsible. Not player, manager, GM or owner.

by azjazzman on Jun 29, 2010 12:43 PM CDT up reply actions  

This is true....

but on an individual game basis…you can point to one or two players for the losses.

As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.

by santoswoodenlegs on Jun 29, 2010 12:44 PM CDT up reply actions  

I think Brenly even mentioned a potential for a squeeze then, IIRC.

Ron Santo - .277 BA; 342 HR; 1331 RBI = NO Hall of Fame?

Brooks Robinson - .267 BA; 268 HR; 1357 RBI = Hall of Fame.

Enough said ! Any more questions ?

by Easy Ed on Jun 29, 2010 1:53 PM CDT up reply actions  

Yet another reason

why the element of surprise would have been missing.

I cannot recall Brenly ever using the squeeze when he was a manager. But, then, he had a team that didn’t lend itself to that brand of baseball.

by azjazzman on Jun 29, 2010 2:56 PM CDT up reply actions  

I'm glad I didn't respond before. With your requirements

for what is bizarre and acceptable to post it wouldn’t be worth the effort.

"The ones who want to achieve and win championships motivate themselves." - Da Coach

by Sandberg's evil twin on Jun 29, 2010 12:46 PM CDT up reply actions  

If you really mean that

then explain to me…Theriot had a .387 OBP in 2008. Less than two years ago. Do you think that was an aberration, or do you think he is capable of doing that again?

I view Theriot as primarily a first pitch fastball / mistake hitter. His success is going to mirror the team’s overall success offensively. If you are looking to Theriot to drive in runs, you are going to be disappointed. Even in 2008, he only had 2008. He is a classic table setter / disruptive force. Expecting him to be a run producer is kind of silly.

by azjazzman on Jun 29, 2010 12:31 PM CDT up reply actions  

oh boy.

As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.

by santoswoodenlegs on Jun 29, 2010 12:32 PM CDT up reply actions  

Exactly

Ryan Theriot is certainly capable of driving in runs, but I’d never put him at the heart of the order and I’d hesitate to bat him leadoff. He did great in the number two hole behind Soriano in 2008 and we’d see Derrek Lee waste efforts with predictable double plays.

RIP Ronnie James Dio (July 10, 1942 - May 16, 2010).

by Ace Venom on Jun 29, 2010 12:34 PM CDT up reply actions  

There was production up and down the lineup in 2008

Ryan Theriot was mostly batting number two after Soriano, a player we know is streaky at best. They were also getting production at the bottom of the order with guys like Soto and Zambrano having big years offensively. Theriot wasn’t driving in a lot of runs because he could sit back and hit singles, essentially being what he is. I remember many times Derrek Lee would come spoil things with an ill-timed double play.

RIP Ronnie James Dio (July 10, 1942 - May 16, 2010).

by Ace Venom on Jun 29, 2010 12:42 PM CDT up reply actions  

Ding!

You win the cigar. Your headline is the correct answer, and those that don’t get that…well, they don’t get it.

by azjazzman on Jun 29, 2010 12:45 PM CDT up reply actions  

And the 2010 Cubs are the polar opposite of the 2008 Cubs

Production has severely declined across the board with a handful of bright spots like Byrd and Colvin’s occasional heroics. Soriano is also having a good season (he’s OPS+’ing 127). It’s the rest of the components that are stinking up the joint and driving the team down. Ryan Theriot certainly isn’t a highlight, but he isn’t the worst cog in the machine.

RIP Ronnie James Dio (July 10, 1942 - May 16, 2010).

by Ace Venom on Jun 29, 2010 12:50 PM CDT up reply actions  

"The situation absolutely, positively screamed out for a squeeze bunt."

GIVE THIS MAN A JOB AS A MANAGER HE KNOWS SOO MUCH MORE

Ramlee Zamfukusoridero

by hiphopgamer26 on Jun 29, 2010 11:23 AM CDT reply actions  

...or at the very least, taking a couple of pitches.

YOU CHERRY PICKED HIS ORIGINAL QUOTE…GIVE THIS MAN A PRESS BADGE!

As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.

by santoswoodenlegs on Jun 29, 2010 11:25 AM CDT up reply actions  

First of all

the recap reads like Al is blaming Theriot for not laying down a squeeze bunt. That, of course, is preposterous.

Secondly, the execution of a squeeze bunt, unless it is a safety squeeze, is highly dependent on the element of surprise, and if the situation truly screamed out for a squeeze (I assume Al means suicide squeeze) then, oops, there goes any chance of surprise.

by azjazzman on Jun 29, 2010 11:56 AM CDT up reply actions  

But batting normally

does not require an element of surprise. Hitting away every at bat worked pretty well for Ted Williams, even though the opponent knew that is what he would do.

by azjazzman on Jun 29, 2010 12:04 PM CDT up reply actions  

Wait, are you comparing Ryan Theriot to Ted Williams?

I spent 90% of my money on women and drink. The rest I wasted - George Best

by Blue W on Jun 29, 2010 12:15 PM CDT up reply actions  

Uh, no

I keep forgetting reading comprehension is in short supply here. I merely used Ted Williams as an extreme example of why the element of surprise does not come into play when hitting away. That is because that is what batters are doing 97% of the time.

BTW, I realize SWL was trying to be funny.

by azjazzman on Jun 29, 2010 12:18 PM CDT up reply actions  

Bah.
I keep forgetting reading comprehension is in short supply here.
Then again, maybe not. I briefly forgot this is a Cubs blog.

You are right. It’s a Cubs blog, and you are trolling. If we are all so short of reading comprehension, so ignorant on this Cubs blog, maybe you should find somebody more worthy of your opinions?

٩(͡๏̯͡๏)۶ Dum spiro spero... | Twitter: @andrewjstone.

by AndrewJStone on Jun 29, 2010 12:21 PM CDT up reply actions   2 recs

Thanks for the reading comprehension lesson.

Do you teach one on handling abrasive personality types as well?

I spent 90% of my money on women and drink. The rest I wasted - George Best

by Blue W on Jun 29, 2010 12:22 PM CDT up reply actions  

This superior act was already very tired.

"The ones who want to achieve and win championships motivate themselves." - Da Coach

by Sandberg's evil twin on Jun 29, 2010 1:12 PM CDT up reply actions  

Pretty tough to imagine

how somebody could read what I wrote and conclude that I was comparing Theriot to Ted WIlliams…but that is BCB for you.

Alternate universe.

by azjazzman on Jun 29, 2010 1:18 PM CDT up reply actions  

Pretty tough to imagine...

how somebody could read a majority of what you wrote and conclude that you are not an incredibly condescending individual…. but that is the Jazzman for you.

Alternate universe.

٩(͡๏̯͡๏)۶ Dum spiro spero... | Twitter: @andrewjstone.

by AndrewJStone on Jun 29, 2010 1:20 PM CDT up reply actions  

Coming from you

I find that hysterically funny.

Pot meet kettle.

by azjazzman on Jun 29, 2010 1:24 PM CDT up reply actions  

And yet everybody seems to be on YOUR case.

Oh what injustice this world has brought on you!

٩(͡๏̯͡๏)۶ Dum spiro spero... | Twitter: @andrewjstone.

by AndrewJStone on Jun 29, 2010 1:41 PM CDT up reply actions  

Only you

and a couple of others who get their panties in a twist when they are shown up.

The vast majority of the posters on here, the ones who are actually capable of original thought, I have no problem with.

by azjazzman on Jun 29, 2010 2:30 PM CDT up reply actions  

Ah yes...

… the old “anybody who disagrees with me is incapable of original thought!” argument. Combined with my obvious lack of reading comprehension (and along whatever other insults you’ve lobbed at me from your all knowing throne of baseball knowledge) it’s amazing i can even manage to operate this weird TV machine in front of me!

Here, i got you this.

٩(͡๏̯͡๏)۶ Dum spiro spero... | Twitter: @andrewjstone.

by AndrewJStone on Jun 29, 2010 2:38 PM CDT up reply actions  

Nah

if you knew anything about me at all, the first thing you would learn is that I enjoy a good debate and am open to opposing viewpoints.

When they are logical, intelligently stated and thought provoking, that is.

Don’t see much of that from you, however. Just a lot of personal attacks, lame insults, etc.

Really, if you have anything of value to contribute, here’s your chance. My guess is you will resort to more insults because it is about all you can manage.

by azjazzman on Jun 29, 2010 2:43 PM CDT up reply actions  

I have something of value...

… stop insulting the reading comprehension of BCB as a whole if you want to come here and have productive conversations.

You act like a martyr whenever anybody gets on your case, yet you belittle everybody here as delusional. The Cubs aren’t even your team. It’s classic troll behavior, and you’ll find i don’t engage in serious conversations with trolls. SWL was pretty patient earlier – i don’t have that sort of stamina.

٩(͡๏̯͡๏)۶ Dum spiro spero... | Twitter: @andrewjstone.

by AndrewJStone on Jun 29, 2010 2:46 PM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

And I have a suggestion for you

set aside the generalizations and assumptions that are based on nothing other than your desire to hurl insults at me.

I have contributed a great deal more in terms of baseball related posts this morning than you have. Pretty much all you have contributed is attacks on me.

Got anything to say about baseball?

by azjazzman on Jun 29, 2010 2:52 PM CDT up reply actions  

I had a whole conversation about ticketing, one on Z, and another on the nature of the Cubs Sox rivalry...

… and somehow managed to do so without saying anything like this:


I keep forgetting reading comprehension is in short supply here.

or this:

Then again, maybe not. I briefly forgot this is a Cubs blog.

It’s odd to me that you think you can spew stuff like that and not get some blowback, especially as a non-cubs fan on a cubs blog.

٩(͡๏̯͡๏)۶ Dum spiro spero... | Twitter: @andrewjstone.

by AndrewJStone on Jun 29, 2010 3:02 PM CDT up reply actions  

AZ is on here on a regular basis.

"The riches of the game are in the thrills, not the money." --Ernie Banks

by dtpollitt on Jun 29, 2010 3:04 PM CDT up reply actions  

And always petulant.

٩(͡๏̯͡๏)۶ Dum spiro spero... | Twitter: @andrewjstone.

by AndrewJStone on Jun 29, 2010 3:05 PM CDT up reply actions   2 recs

I think petulant

fits you much better than it does me.

by azjazzman on Jun 29, 2010 3:11 PM CDT up reply actions  

This has become awesome.

::Grabs popcorn::

"The riches of the game are in the thrills, not the money." --Ernie Banks

by dtpollitt on Jun 29, 2010 3:12 PM CDT up reply actions  

LOL

I can step it up a notch if you’d like :-)

by azjazzman on Jun 29, 2010 3:14 PM CDT up reply actions  

Sits next and joins dtpollitt with the popcorn.

I didn't believe it last August, but it turns out that love survives.

Preparing to hike to the summit of Mount Washington in New Hampshire on Saturday, July 10....

State high point count: 2/50

by Vermont Cubs Fan on Jun 29, 2010 4:14 PM CDT up reply actions  

Sits on otherside of dtpollitt sitting next to Vermont Cubs Fan


"A waist is a terrible thing to mind." - Terry 'Fat Tub of Goo' Forster

by eths on Jun 29, 2010 4:32 PM CDT up reply actions  

Dudes... why are you eating popcorn?

I brought deer jerky… come ON!

٩(͡๏̯͡๏)۶ Dum spiro spero... | Twitter: @andrewjstone.

by AndrewJStone on Jun 29, 2010 4:57 PM CDT up reply actions  

Did you also happen to bring bacon?

I didn't believe it last August, but it turns out that love survives.

Preparing to hike to the summit of Mount Washington in New Hampshire on Saturday, July 10....

State high point count: 2/50

by Vermont Cubs Fan on Jun 29, 2010 5:17 PM CDT up reply actions  

I wantssss it


"A waist is a terrible thing to mind." - Terry 'Fat Tub of Goo' Forster

by eths on Jun 30, 2010 5:21 AM CDT up reply actions  

Pot meet kettle.

How many times do you say that in a day? Do you just walk around saying that at home?

Never mind. I’ve come to the conclusion that you aren’t a real person. I think you, Doggie Stalker, and BLou are various multiple personalities of Al. Like the Bleacher Bums play crossed with Sybil, the 1976 TV movie.

Now it all make sense to me.

"They come to see me strike out, hit a home run, or run into a fence. I try to accommodate them at least one way every game." - Gorman Thomas

by RiskyBusiness on Jun 29, 2010 1:49 PM CDT up reply actions  

Hmmm.

I have never met BLou, but I assume he is (was?) a real person.

Jessica is a personal friend of mine. azjazzman happens to be a personal friend of Jessica’s, and someone I know also. They are real people.

Satisfied now?

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al Yellon on Jun 29, 2010 1:54 PM CDT up reply actions  

Define "Satisfied".

I spent 90% of my money on women and drink. The rest I wasted - George Best

by Blue W on Jun 29, 2010 1:57 PM CDT up reply actions  

Define "now".

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al Yellon on Jun 29, 2010 1:57 PM CDT up reply actions  

Disagree.

BLou was clearly a cyborg, sent from the future, to warn us cubs fans of the futility of our cause.

٩(͡๏̯͡๏)۶ Dum spiro spero... | Twitter: @andrewjstone.

by AndrewJStone on Jun 29, 2010 2:00 PM CDT up reply actions  

Like it or not

he was dead on about this years team 75 Wins

by Grockcubs on Jun 29, 2010 2:05 PM CDT up reply actions  

I mean, obvously.

HE WAS FROM THE FUTURE.

٩(͡๏̯͡๏)۶ Dum spiro spero... | Twitter: @andrewjstone.

by AndrewJStone on Jun 29, 2010 2:06 PM CDT up reply actions  

You look up "blind squirel finds nut" or

“broken clock correct 2x daily” and I’m sure you will find links to blou and all his iterations and an arrow pointing to his house on a map.

may addition by subtraction be real

by N Oakley on Jun 29, 2010 2:09 PM CDT up reply actions  

It had no choice.

 Skynet had to wipe out BLou’s entire existence!

I spent 90% of my money on women and drink. The rest I wasted - George Best

by Blue W on Jun 29, 2010 2:11 PM CDT up reply actions  

And pretty much

dead on about last year’s team, too.

It’s not just his negativity that got everybody on here upset, it’s also that he was right.

by azjazzman on Jun 29, 2010 2:32 PM CDT up reply actions  

Hey, the pessimists are always

right when the team sucks.

As I recall, he was pretty excited about signing that “professional hitter” Bradley.

may addition by subtraction be real

by N Oakley on Jun 29, 2010 2:45 PM CDT up reply actions  

And the optimists

are equally right when the team doesn’t suck.

But, the optimists don’t get abused in quite the same way when they are proven right.

by azjazzman on Jun 29, 2010 2:49 PM CDT up reply actions  

as has been stated many, many times,

it’s not his opinions, it’s the delivery.

may addition by subtraction be real

by N Oakley on Jun 29, 2010 3:04 PM CDT up reply actions  

But that is always the rationalization

when one doesn’t like the message.

I was somewhat surprised when I heard Mark Grace recently remark on how, in his 13 years as a Cub, the team finished above .500 only twice. At least the pessimists have some historical basis for their gloomy outlook.

by azjazzman on Jun 29, 2010 3:10 PM CDT up reply actions  

No, actually it wasn't

For me anyway. It was the WAY he talked to everyone that got under my skin. You can be right without being a sexist jagoff.

Things work out best for those that make the best out of the way things work out - Coach Wooden

by Allie on Jun 29, 2010 5:43 PM CDT up reply actions  

It must be me

Stripes, John Winger: Oh, it’s not the speed really so much, I just wish I hadn’t drunk all that cough syrup this morning.

"They come to see me strike out, hit a home run, or run into a fence. I try to accommodate them at least one way every game." - Gorman Thomas

by RiskyBusiness on Jun 29, 2010 2:05 PM CDT up reply actions  

Pretty tough to imagine

how somebody could read BCB on a regular basis and conclude that we all think Ryan Theriot is the reason why the team is bad…but that is azjazzman for you.

As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.

by santoswoodenlegs on Jun 29, 2010 1:20 PM CDT up reply actions  

And humorless too?!

Boy, you are the complete package.

I spent 90% of my money on women and drink. The rest I wasted - George Best

by Blue W on Jun 29, 2010 1:21 PM CDT up reply actions  

Oh, and

it is almost unheard of to call for a suicide squeeze on the first pitch of an at bat, for the same reason you don’t call for a hit and run on the first pitch of an at bat.

by azjazzman on Jun 29, 2010 12:02 PM CDT up reply actions  

Can Theriot bunt?

I thinked he would have popped it up trying

by doofusguy on Jun 29, 2010 12:07 PM CDT up reply actions  

Theriot was 8th

in the N.L. in sacrifice hits last year, so I would say so.

Count me amongst those that don’t get the hate for Theriot. He is 2nd on the team in hits and doesn’t strike out much.

by azjazzman on Jun 29, 2010 12:13 PM CDT up reply actions  

Um, then how

did he manage a .387 OBP in 661 PAs in 2008?

by azjazzman on Jun 29, 2010 12:39 PM CDT up reply actions  

Luck?

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al Yellon on Jun 29, 2010 12:39 PM CDT up reply actions  

He's not having a good year

Then again, outside of Soriano, Byrd and Colvin, who is having a good year on this team?

RIP Ronnie James Dio (July 10, 1942 - May 16, 2010).

by Ace Venom on Jun 29, 2010 12:52 PM CDT up reply actions  

"Not having a good year"

and having the 4th worst OPS of qualified NL hitters are two very different things.

by madcow256 on Jun 29, 2010 2:14 PM CDT up reply actions  

OPS

is not really a good stat to use to evaluate a player like Theriot.

by azjazzman on Jun 29, 2010 2:28 PM CDT up reply actions  

You're right

TOOTBLANs are much more fitting.

by madcow256 on Jun 29, 2010 2:32 PM CDT up reply actions  

More seriously, what stats would you like me to use to evaluate him?

3rd to last in slugging.
18th to last in OBP.
8th to last in BBs.
4th to last in RBI.
Tied for last in HR.
Last in extra base hits.
Tied for 20th in GIDPs.
13th to last in taken bases.
14th to last for pitches per plate appearance.

AVG, Ks, Runs, and SB are the ONLY stats that make him look even mediocre.

by madcow256 on Jun 29, 2010 2:42 PM CDT up reply actions  

Are these stats for the NL or the whole of MLB?

Either way, they’re terrible.

I didn't believe it last August, but it turns out that love survives.

Preparing to hike to the summit of Mount Washington in New Hampshire on Saturday, July 10....

State high point count: 2/50

by Vermont Cubs Fan on Jun 29, 2010 2:44 PM CDT up reply actions  

OBP, Avg, Runs and SB

tell me more than HRs, RBI, OPS and slugging. That’s for sure.

by azjazzman on Jun 29, 2010 2:45 PM CDT up reply actions  

SB????

As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.

by santoswoodenlegs on Jun 29, 2010 2:49 PM CDT up reply actions  

He's still pretty mediocre in those categories though

Couple that with some of the worst numbers in the league for the rest of the categories, and you have a guy who is not just “having a bad year” – he’s having an “Aramis Ramirez circa 2010” kinda year. And that’s about as awful a comparison as you can make.

by madcow256 on Jun 29, 2010 4:01 PM CDT up reply actions  

Hence the Cubs being 10 games

below .500. Really, the offense has been dreadful. The record likely would be much worse if it weren’t for starting pitching.

But, that’s how it goes when a team is struggling. You put out one fire and another flares up somewhere.

by azjazzman on Jun 29, 2010 4:14 PM CDT up reply actions  

OK, he had a decent year 2 freaking years ago....

holy hell, are you going to let him live off that the way Wood lived off the 20K game?

At some point you have to put aside the outliers and look at the average production a player gives you.

Ryan Theriot Sucks.

As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.

by santoswoodenlegs on Jun 29, 2010 12:42 PM CDT up reply actions  

It's not that he sucks

It’s that he’s decidedly average/mediocre. There are probably several players scattered around AAA that could produce the numbers Theriot does.

by JimAnchower on Jun 29, 2010 12:44 PM CDT up reply actions  

His career OBP is .352

.387 is not that much of an outlier, especially when you factor in how much more successful the entire team was in 2008.

by azjazzman on Jun 29, 2010 12:48 PM CDT up reply actions  

No

It’s because his OBP has been declining since 2008. If you count 2005-2008, his career OBP was .362. That declined to .356 after 2009 and to the .352 you currently see.

RIP Ronnie James Dio (July 10, 1942 - May 16, 2010).

by Ace Venom on Jun 29, 2010 12:57 PM CDT up reply actions  

Wrong again, hot shot

Theriot is in his 6th year. His career OBP is .352 because that is what he has done over 6 years.

by azjazzman on Jun 29, 2010 12:58 PM CDT up reply actions  

25% of it

75% of it is non 2008, so it is completely mistaken to say that his career OBP is due to 2008.

2008 was his best year, yes. Not coincidentally, it was also the Cubs best year in recent memory.

by azjazzman on Jun 29, 2010 1:11 PM CDT up reply actions  

Not mistaken at all

Other than 2008, he’s had one season of a OBP of .350 or greater. That is when he played 1/3 of a season in 2006. The reason he has a career OBP of over .350 is largely because of 2008.

by JimAnchower on Jun 29, 2010 1:16 PM CDT up reply actions  

That's correct, SWL

no way you can convince me that a stat is driven by a component that is only 25% of the entire number.

Sorry, but that is not what I learned in statistics class.

by azjazzman on Jun 29, 2010 1:23 PM CDT up reply actions  

If you had a bucket of ice water....

and added 2 cups of boiling water to it, some of the ice would melt and the temp. of the water would increase slightly. Without the boiling water the bucket stays the same cold temp.

You are not this obtuse.

As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.

by santoswoodenlegs on Jun 29, 2010 1:26 PM CDT up reply actions  

Wow,

I love the fact that you have introduced the concept of thermal dynamics in water to this discussion! Good for you!

HOWEVER

I didn’t say that Theriot’s .387 OPB did not impact his .352 career OBP. Od course it does.

But, you said his .352 was DUE to his .387, which is NOT true.

The key to your (flawed) analogy is when you said the temp of the water increased SLIGHTLY.

That is what Theriot’s 2008 season did to his career OBP. It increased it slightly.

by azjazzman on Jun 29, 2010 1:33 PM CDT up reply actions  

Again...

the reason his career OBP is .352 AND NOT LOWER…is because of 2008.

As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.

by santoswoodenlegs on Jun 29, 2010 1:36 PM CDT up reply actions  

Without 2008

His career OBP drops pretty significantly to around .330.

by JimAnchower on Jun 29, 2010 1:28 PM CDT up reply actions  

.338 actually

only .14 less than his career OBP.

So, 2008 raised his career OBP by .14.

Case closed.

by azjazzman on Jun 29, 2010 1:42 PM CDT up reply actions  

See Above

Baseball 101 – "Baseball is a team game".

Also, since you clearly could also benefit from some help with numbers, .14 is NOT 14% of .352 (or .387).

Just sayin’

by azjazzman on Jun 29, 2010 1:54 PM CDT up reply actions  

35 points is not that much of an outlier? I'd say it is

and I don’t get how the team’s success affects one’s OBP. RBI and runs, sure – since those stats are partially dependent on teammates being on base or driving you in. But your own OBP is pretty much up to you, isn’t it? Ok, aside from the occasional fielder’s choice.

Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."

by ballhawk on Jun 29, 2010 1:01 PM CDT up reply actions  

Whatever, HOT SHOT.

٩(͡๏̯͡๏)۶ Dum spiro spero... | Twitter: @andrewjstone.

by AndrewJStone on Jun 29, 2010 1:05 PM CDT up reply actions  

Finally - SWL revealed...

Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."

by ballhawk on Jun 29, 2010 1:13 PM CDT up reply actions  

Chicks dig the uniform

"The ones who want to achieve and win championships motivate themselves." - Da Coach

by Sandberg's evil twin on Jun 29, 2010 1:26 PM CDT up reply actions  

the baseball variety is much better IMHO ;)

"Well-behaved women seldom make History"---Laurel Thatcher Ulrich

by cooliogirl47 on Jun 29, 2010 1:27 PM CDT up reply actions  

Well I certainly will defer to you for this lol

"The ones who want to achieve and win championships motivate themselves." - Da Coach

by Sandberg's evil twin on Jun 29, 2010 1:28 PM CDT up reply actions  

ok

"Well-behaved women seldom make History"---Laurel Thatcher Ulrich

by cooliogirl47 on Jun 29, 2010 1:29 PM CDT up reply actions  

um...that wasn't sarcastic i hope you know.

"The ones who want to achieve and win championships motivate themselves." - Da Coach

by Sandberg's evil twin on Jun 29, 2010 1:35 PM CDT up reply actions  

yes, I did oh evil one :)

"Well-behaved women seldom make History"---Laurel Thatcher Ulrich

by cooliogirl47 on Jun 29, 2010 1:59 PM CDT up reply actions  

Three full seasons (2007-2009)

1,935 PA
.286 AVG
.353 OBP
82 OPS+

Throw in what he’s done so far in 2010 and it looks like this:
2,245 PA
.286 AVG
.349 OBP
80 OPS+

Those aren’t great numbers, but they’re not exactly godawful either for someone who is best suited to hitting second or eighth in the lineup. Batting him leadoff hasn’t worked out that well this season and his numbers for the season show it.

RIP Ronnie James Dio (July 10, 1942 - May 16, 2010).

by Ace Venom on Jun 29, 2010 1:07 PM CDT up reply actions  

"someone who is best suited to hitting second or eighth in the lineup"

Take out the “hitting second” part, because other than 2008, he hasn’t been good at that either, and you’re left with “someone who is best suited to hitting eighth in the lineup”.

aka

“godawful”.

by madcow256 on Jun 29, 2010 2:18 PM CDT up reply actions  

Look, Baseball is a team game

no matter what people on here like to think.

Game situations dictate what pitches are thrown, how likely you are to see a fastball, how likely you are to see a strike.

Game situations include: what the score is, whether there are men on base or not, what the opposing pitchers pitch count is, whether or not you are batting against the starting pitcher or a relief pitcher, etc, etc etc.

Every one of these things falls in your favor when the team is winning. Typically, the are playing with the lead, have lots of men on base, are making the opposing pitcher work, getting in to the bullpen sooner.

Every one of those things will impact any specific player’s success, especially the OBP of a player like Theriot.

Come on, this is Baseball 101 stuff.

by azjazzman on Jun 29, 2010 1:08 PM CDT up reply actions  

This is a fact that is often missed

If you use the 2008-2009 Phillies as an example, those teams were offensive juggernauts. The 2010 Phillies aren’t so much even though there hasn’t been a massive turnover in personnel. This is much of the same situation the Cubs find themselves in this season. 2009 was a wild season due to injuries derailing what should have been another contender.

RIP Ronnie James Dio (July 10, 1942 - May 16, 2010).

by Ace Venom on Jun 29, 2010 1:09 PM CDT up reply actions  

He's had two seasons

of a OBP of .350 or greater in the six he’s played for the Cubs. 2008 was .387 and 2006 of .412 (when he played roughly 1/3 of the season).

by JimAnchower on Jun 29, 2010 1:09 PM CDT up reply actions  

Let's be realistic here.

Theriot doesn’t suck, he just isn’t a player you put in the leadoff spot. There would be a lot less bitching if he was consistently hitting 8th, in fact I’d go as far to say there would be some PRAISE if he was hitting 8th.

"Nothing can happen till you swing the bat."
-Haruko Haruhara

by windycitywarrior on Jun 29, 2010 12:42 PM CDT reply actions  

Likely so

Ryan is going to hit where his manager puts him in the batting order.

RIP Ronnie James Dio (July 10, 1942 - May 16, 2010).

by Ace Venom on Jun 29, 2010 12:43 PM CDT up reply actions  

Can a manager assume the middle of his lineup won't produce?

Yesterday’s game was another example of how not scoring more runs can keep the opposing starting pitcher in the game longer. This Maholm lasted 8 innings and left after throwing 101 pitches. This pitcher is not that good.

Ignoring the fact that they should get rid of this cast, it looks like Lou wanted Byrd in the middle of yesterday’s lineup. When the 3-4 hitters aren’t hitting, then Theriot absolutely cannot lead-off. As obvious as this season has made it, no reason to think Lou should have to assume that Colvin, Byrd and Lee would end the game with 1 single. This is what I would do with this cast; the middle of the lineup has to hit, otherwise nothing works, the lefties other than Colvin are on-occasion replacements and no such luxury of having speed at the top of the lineup.

Soriano armed with his new found no-hack ability to bunt approach at the plate
Baker or Fontenot or maybe Castro
Byrd
Colvin
Lee
Soto or Castro when Hill catches
Ramirez
Theriot or Hill
Pitcher

by AboutTheCubs on Jun 29, 2010 1:01 PM CDT reply actions  

ok, just for kicks, I did that

I put the following names in a hat – Sori, Byrd, Colvin, ARam, Castro, Riot/Fonty, DLee, Soto and Pitcher. Shook it up, held it above my head and came up with this lineup.

Soto
Sori
ARam
Pitcher
Colvin
Castro
Riot
DLee
Byrd

Seeing as how Lilly is pitching today, this could work, but I probably should go under the assumption that the pitcher will bat 9th so let me try it again…

Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."

by ballhawk on Jun 29, 2010 1:31 PM CDT up reply actions  

move the pitcher to the 9 spot.....I like it

"Well-behaved women seldom make History"---Laurel Thatcher Ulrich

by cooliogirl47 on Jun 29, 2010 1:32 PM CDT up reply actions  

Here is what I pulled out with assumption pitcher is batting 9th

Soto
Sori
ARam
Riot/Fonty
DLee
Sori
Colvin
Castro
Pitcher

Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."

by ballhawk on Jun 29, 2010 1:36 PM CDT up reply actions  

Fonzi gets 2nd & 6th?

Will they allow that?

I spent 90% of my money on women and drink. The rest I wasted - George Best

by Blue W on Jun 29, 2010 1:38 PM CDT up reply actions  

Hmm - I blame the public accounting firm that's supposed to supervise all these drawings

Here’s the corrected version:

Byrd
Soto
ARam
Riot/Fonty
DLee
Sori
Colvin
Castro
Pitcher

Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."

by ballhawk on Jun 29, 2010 1:44 PM CDT up reply actions  

Oh, okay.

For a second there I thought you were comparing Ryan Theriot to Ted Williams.

I spent 90% of my money on women and drink. The rest I wasted - George Best

by Blue W on Jun 29, 2010 1:48 PM CDT up reply actions  

ISWYDT

as I roll my eyes and sigh mightily… ;-)

Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."

by ballhawk on Jun 29, 2010 1:52 PM CDT up reply actions  

Serious question Al, when does Lou's act

also grow stale enough he’s allowed to walk away?\

I’m hoping the Committee of Rickett’s has seen enough and is ready for a change.

may addition by subtraction be real

by N Oakley on Jun 29, 2010 1:37 PM CDT up reply actions  

It should have been a month ago.

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al Yellon on Jun 29, 2010 1:42 PM CDT up reply actions  

Agreed.

I’d be happiest if they’d reassign Hendry to director of the minor leagues and hire a new GM to do the dismantling, fire Lou and plug Trammell or Rhyno in to let players who might be here next year play.

Given my lack of time here, it’s pretty clear I’m struggling to watch or read about this team.

may addition by subtraction be real

by N Oakley on Jun 29, 2010 2:06 PM CDT up reply actions  

I still don't think major changes

will happen until the end of the year.

Things work out best for those that make the best out of the way things work out - Coach Wooden

by Allie on Jun 29, 2010 2:10 PM CDT up reply actions  

True, but it wouldn't be any better either.

I think they will make some player changes between now and the end of the season, but cutting the 1-run losses, especially those to bad teams, can release some of the drudgery of following this team. They need alot more to be a good team.

by AboutTheCubs on Jun 29, 2010 2:25 PM CDT up reply actions  

Hey all

Greetings from beautiful Sister Bay WI where I briefly have some internet access.
I can’t go through all 20,000 posts in the last 5 days but I will of course be contrary.

I think Z behaved badly and deserved to be pulled right out of the game, that said I still think he is a committed player and NOT selfish. I remember this is the guy who skipped going home to Central America like every other Cub from the region and spent the winter in Chicago working on his game. He is the guy the remarkable AZ Phil over at TCR saw regularly bicycling in AZ to the minor league park to cook food and help out with the low level Latin players. I think the Cubs throwing in the BP after 4 starts was the beginning of the end and the most ill thought out move I can remember. I will take Z’s very bad outbursts over the non emotion of most of his teammates. Going after your teammates in public is very bad and he deserves to be discplined but what is being done is an extreme overeaction that is hurts the team is so many ways. I know this an extreme minority opinion and I only followed a fraction of the debate , but that is how I feel.

FYI if the Cubs did have Sam Fuld OR a Fuld like player they would actually have options in the 9th inning last night for both pinch runner, defensive replacement or player who could execute a bunt but the Cubs don’t value those “small ball” skills.

Back to vacation.

"Lou Piniella's been a great manager for a long time and I stand by him completely"

by Doggie Stalker on Jun 29, 2010 1:38 PM CDT reply actions   1 recs

Ah, yes, the "committed, unselfish player who skipped going home" argument.

I got text messages from Jessica about this over the weekend. It’s patent nonsense.

This player got out of shape over the last couple of years. For $18 million, getting in shape was the LEAST he could do.

Once again, my friend, you are 100% wrong.

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al Yellon on Jun 29, 2010 1:43 PM CDT up reply actions  

And this evaluation

is based on what? When I saw Z in ST this year, I immediately commented on how much slimmer he looked.

Jessica will attest to this.

I happen to agree with Jessica on this. I think this dugout incident is blown all out of proportion. I think the suspension is okay, The mandatory therapy…well, I agree with the poster that said this is a sham.

I wonder how this would be handled (and what your reaction would be) if Z had a 2.50 ERA and was 8-2 at this point.

I’m almost certain you would not be calling for him to get traded.

by azjazzman on Jun 29, 2010 1:47 PM CDT up reply actions  

I'm almost certain he wouldn't be such a dick to his team if he was 8-2 and had a 2.50 ERA...

of course I doubt that he has EVER been 8-2 with a 2.50 ERA at any point in his major league career.

As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.

by santoswoodenlegs on Jun 29, 2010 1:50 PM CDT up reply actions  

Just for SWL.

On June 20, 2004, Z beat the A’s at Wrigley Field. He was 8-2. With a BETTER than 2.50 ERA (2.25).

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al Yellon on Jun 29, 2010 1:56 PM CDT up reply actions  

holy crap.

As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.

by santoswoodenlegs on Jun 29, 2010 1:57 PM CDT up reply actions  

Well, I just picked 2.50 out of the air

has no significance.

What I should have said, and would’ve conveyed the thought more clearly, is would people be calling for Hendry to get rid of Z if Z was performing like the staff ace.

Basically, I am agreeing with Jessica.

by azjazzman on Jun 29, 2010 2:16 PM CDT up reply actions  

And to go along with that year

July 19, 2004: Zambrano Throws at Jim Edmonds after screaming at Edmonds as he rounded the bases on a home run, earning a five-game suspension.

"They come to see me strike out, hit a home run, or run into a fence. I try to accommodate them at least one way every game." - Gorman Thomas

by RiskyBusiness on Jun 29, 2010 3:28 PM CDT up reply actions  

The fact that Al

is responding to Jessica’s reasonable post with comments about Z’s conditioning (which I think he is wrong about) makes it clear where he is coming from.

This really is only peripherally about the dugout incidents for Al. It is much more about Z’s performance (or lack of same) on the field, and the desire to shed that contract.

by azjazzman on Jun 29, 2010 1:57 PM CDT up reply actions  

What am I wrong about?

Yes, he got in shape. So what? That allows him to rant and rave and call out his team in front of 40,000 people and TV cameras?

That’s whacked-out thinking.

Further, you’re putting words in my mouth. Careful about that.

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al Yellon on Jun 29, 2010 1:58 PM CDT up reply actions  

That's a good point.

Brat behavior rarely comes out when you are doing well yourself.

"The ones who want to achieve and win championships motivate themselves." - Da Coach

by Sandberg's evil twin on Jun 29, 2010 1:59 PM CDT up reply actions  

If he'd had that kind of record right now...

… the Cubs wouldn’t be wallowing in fourth place, and the tirade likely would never have happened.

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al Yellon on Jun 29, 2010 1:55 PM CDT up reply actions  

That is true

and is a valid point.

All that tells me is that Z has competitive fire and wants to win. I WANT guys like that on my ball club, although Z needs to find a different way to channel that.

Will he? Probably not. Could the Cubs live with it if he was pitching the way he was early in his career? Probably.

Was interested to hear that the Rays management is THRILLED that Longoria confronted Upton. They see it as a real positive.

by azjazzman on Jun 29, 2010 2:00 PM CDT up reply actions  

The difference is...

Longoria simply got in Upton’s face and told him to stop being a dumbass after Upton Cadillac’d it in the outfield…he didn’t storm into the dugout and have a hissy fit.

Leadership….

As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.

by santoswoodenlegs on Jun 29, 2010 2:03 PM CDT up reply actions  

Agreed

I think I mentioned this in a previous post.

Now, I read that Z thought Silva should be the one to do it, but he doesn’t have that sort of personality.

It’s not that I don’t think Z was wrong, or that some sort of reprimand wasn’t called for, but some of the reaction is way over the top.

And the dinner with Ozzie thing is just plain silly. If there ever was a ‘so what’ in all this, that is it.

by azjazzman on Jun 29, 2010 2:07 PM CDT up reply actions  

Competitive fire?

I think all these guys want to win. Ranting and raving that way, and showing off the childish behavior Z has in the past, are certainly NOT the right ways to show that.

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al Yellon on Jun 29, 2010 2:04 PM CDT up reply actions  

Having emotional players is one thing

Doing what Z did on Friday is completely unacceptable.

I don’t know the Rays situation. Did Longoria do what Z did? If so, has he done it before? I’m going out on a limb right now that if the Rays are thrilled with it, the situation was totally different than Z blowing a headgasket between innings in the dugout.

Just win the next game...!

by blackhawk24 on Jun 29, 2010 2:04 PM CDT up reply actions  

I've been disappointed league rules won't allow the long version of Z out there anymore.

Youtubers were right, 2 days and it was pulled from everywhere. I know its copyright infringement.

"The ones who want to achieve and win championships motivate themselves." - Da Coach

by Sandberg's evil twin on Jun 29, 2010 2:11 PM CDT up reply actions  

No, see above with SWL. Longoria just called out Upton for

being lazy chasing a ball , turning a double into a triple. He went straight to him and admittedly yelled in his face, telling him he didn’t appreciate the way he dogged it. Then backed off after teammates moved him and it looked over.

"The ones who want to achieve and win championships motivate themselves." - Da Coach

by Sandberg's evil twin on Jun 29, 2010 2:09 PM CDT up reply actions  

Just watched it

The situations were not even close.

Upton got upset, which is good. Hopefully that will light a fire under his lazy ass next time.

Just win the next game...!

by blackhawk24 on Jun 29, 2010 2:16 PM CDT up reply actions  

But it won't

if you heard any of B.J.’s comments after the incident, it was abundantly clear that he was taking NO responsibility for what happened. All he offered was excuses and deflections. Until he recognizes that he has a problem in this area, nothing will change.

Same for Z, by the way. I understand Z is contrite and apologetic. That is great, but all wasted unless he is willing to concede he has a problem. Being forced to go to therapy does not do that.

by azjazzman on Jun 29, 2010 2:20 PM CDT up reply actions  

That I didn't hear yet

Sounds like he’s another pompous ass.

Tell you what; that shit won’t fly in hockey. At least the team NOW on Chicago’s West side. They had those players, they’re ALL gone.

Just win the next game...!

by blackhawk24 on Jun 29, 2010 2:21 PM CDT up reply actions  

Not really pompous

just a typical 2010 style pampered athlete who has been told the world revolves around him and that he is wonderful his whole life, whether he played hard or not.

In one sense, I feel sorry for these guys. Their parents, coaches, agents, etc create these monsters. Why should we be surprised when they act like this?

BTW, I agree 100% with you about hockey players. Totally different dynamic.

by azjazzman on Jun 29, 2010 2:24 PM CDT up reply actions  

I agree that it is totally different

and mentioned it the day the Rays thing happened.

But, I do think it is useful to point up in the context of understanding that some of this stuff can be subject to interpretation and trying to attribute motives/causes can be tricky.

I tend to believe Lou and JH when they publicly state what they did about the incident. I feel no real need to interpret or read between the lines.

I also think JH is on the right track with his statement that he wants Z to return to the ball club and still considers him a part of the team. I think that is important to say…even while he may be exploring trade possibilities.

by azjazzman on Jun 29, 2010 2:12 PM CDT up reply actions  

Hendry has to say what you refer to in your last paragraph

I think the Cubs learned their lesson from the end of the 2004 season….

Just win the next game...!

by blackhawk24 on Jun 29, 2010 2:17 PM CDT up reply actions  

True enough

but, I also believe he is being truthful and sincere.

If for no other reason than the fact that he may not be able to find a deal to move Z.

by azjazzman on Jun 29, 2010 2:21 PM CDT up reply actions  

The "extreme overreaction" of what is being done hurts the team in so many ways hmm.

Z’s selfish and immature behavior is what hurt the team. Now it’s damage control in the wake from it. Mgmt messed up in tolerating it before, not now that it exploded.

"The ones who want to achieve and win championships motivate themselves." - Da Coach

by Sandberg's evil twin on Jun 29, 2010 1:55 PM CDT up reply actions  

Maybe it helps the team...

Now Gorzo gets to start instead of Z. Russell and Stevens get to come back too!

"A dream you dream alone is only a dream. A dream you dream together is reality." John Lennon

by Cubbiegoon on Jun 29, 2010 2:08 PM CDT up reply actions  

I hope so.

The jury is still out on Wells. Before his last start I was frustrated he hadn’t been pulled.
Now I still think he should be in the pen, but with Z out its less likely.

"The ones who want to achieve and win championships motivate themselves." - Da Coach

by Sandberg's evil twin on Jun 29, 2010 2:13 PM CDT up reply actions  

Z has not

worked at his game like he should have for the last two years. It is more than apparent by looking at the results. Players approaching there 30’s need to work even that harder to continue to be successful. Z obviously would rather take the approach he took when he was 22. Sure he dropped 15 pounds. Like I tell my wife when I dropped 17 pounds, " It is easy when you have the weight to lose"
 Z needs some serious growing to do. Unfortunately he will have to do it in another city.

by Grockcubs on Jun 29, 2010 2:12 PM CDT up reply actions  

I really am curious

how you can speak with such presumed authority about Z’s work habits. I really would like to know.

Just for instance, your comparison of your dropping 17 pounds to Z’s is lame. He is a professional athlete. I’m sure if you compared BMI’s or fat %, you would find there is no comparison at all. 15 pound to an athlete is totally different from 15 pounds to a couch potato. Not that I am calling you a coach potato, but unless you make money from being an athlete, I don’t see the point.

by azjazzman on Jun 29, 2010 2:38 PM CDT up reply actions  

This has been widely

reported for years about “Z’s” work ethic and even by himself he needed to be in shape. It is obvious he has digressed both mentally and physically by his performance.
 I pitched in college for 3 years, unfortunately 3 decades ago, however we still got in shape and understood the importance to do so.
 It appears from the outside looking in, Z has not taken his career the last two years seriously, that is my opinion.
 I guess that is my lame responce from a retired military couch potato.

by Grockcubs on Jun 30, 2010 6:36 AM CDT up reply actions  

Ah Door County...

Have fun. I’ll be there in August

by Mapmaker on Jun 29, 2010 3:04 PM CDT up reply actions  

Peninsula State Park.

Absolutely beautiful.

I spent 90% of my money on women and drink. The rest I wasted - George Best

by Blue W on Jun 29, 2010 3:09 PM CDT up reply actions  

Going to Fish Boil tonight

Mom’s birthday. Our house in the bay side between Sister Bay & Ellison Bay.

"Lou Piniella's been a great manager for a long time and I stand by him completely"

by Doggie Stalker on Jun 29, 2010 3:20 PM CDT up reply actions  

Birthday regards to your mom.

Have fun.

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al Yellon on Jun 29, 2010 3:21 PM CDT up reply actions  

A Fish Boil?

For someone who grew up in the desert, I am unfamiliar with this concept.

Hope you are having a great time and birthday greetings to your mom!

by azjazzman on Jun 29, 2010 3:30 PM CDT up reply actions  

Hitting at least one Fish Boil is a staple of our yearly trip.

Enjoy yourself, and Happy Birthday to your mom.

I spent 90% of my money on women and drink. The rest I wasted - George Best

by Blue W on Jun 29, 2010 3:30 PM CDT up reply actions  

A short description for AZJazz

The Wisconsin fish boil is really fun. There’s a near mass-like ceremony outdoors around the cauldron of boiling fish. Everyone grabs a beer and watches until there’s a huge burst of flame, (the absolute highlight) things boil over and the fish is ready.

The whitefish itself, which isn’t very high on the flavor scale, especially when boiled, is put on your plate and you are then presented with gravy scooners of melted butter to pour over it. Only in Wisconsin could this be considered a delicacy.

Too little for the taste buds, too much for the heart. But it sure is fun.

Happy birthday to your Mom, DoggieStalker.

by the nth on Jun 29, 2010 3:59 PM CDT up reply actions  

Thanks!

Sounds like fun. Trying to think of something equivalent I have been to, and the only thing I can come up with is a Buffalo meat BBQ with a large group.

by azjazzman on Jun 29, 2010 4:11 PM CDT up reply actions  

I think I saw Mark DeCarlo attend a fish boll

a long time ago on “Taste of America”. The guys who were cooking amped up the fire with gasoline! LOL

I'll go to my grave believing Armando Galarraga tossed the 21st perfect game in MLB history.

by EalyEagle on Jun 29, 2010 3:34 PM CDT up reply actions  

Does anyone else find it funny

that Lou seemed so disgusted with the idea of yelling at people in the dugout?

Isn’t that what made him so famous as a manager anyways?

by gizmo6d9 on Jun 29, 2010 2:46 PM CDT reply actions  

Exactly.

Things work out best for those that make the best out of the way things work out - Coach Wooden

by Allie on Jun 29, 2010 5:45 PM CDT up reply actions  

This thread is funny.

Complaining about tickets, complaining about Theriot.

"The riches of the game are in the thrills, not the money." --Ernie Banks

by dtpollitt on Jun 29, 2010 2:54 PM CDT reply actions  

complaining about complaining?

"A dream you dream alone is only a dream. A dream you dream together is reality." John Lennon

by Cubbiegoon on Jun 29, 2010 2:56 PM CDT up reply actions  

Each are overpriced.

As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.

by santoswoodenlegs on Jun 29, 2010 2:56 PM CDT up reply actions  

Solution!

Instead of selling tickets for $10, sell Theriot for $10. Some team will take him at that price.

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al Yellon on Jun 29, 2010 2:58 PM CDT up reply actions  

It's almot the all-star break.

Somebody’s gotta get the ball rolling and start buying and selling. Are we all waiting for LeBron or what? Let’s jump into the game first—start selling pieces and/or announcing that we are selling.

"The riches of the game are in the thrills, not the money." --Ernie Banks

by dtpollitt on Jun 29, 2010 3:00 PM CDT up reply actions  

Can LeBron play 1B?

‘Cuz I’ll bet DLee can ball. Has anyone investigated this yet?

"Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have?" -Frank Chance
"If [Ruth] had [called his shot], I would have knocked him down with the next pitch." -Charlie Root

by Clutch16 on Jun 29, 2010 3:27 PM CDT up reply actions  

Well Al, if the Cubs don't kill off Ronnie, it may be me instead. Geez indeed.

See you tonight.

We have met the enemy and they are us! ~ Walt Kelly, Pogo, 1971

by Zeke on Jun 29, 2010 3:05 PM CDT reply actions  

So...

… who is going to see THE TWILIGHT SAGA: ECLIPSE this weekend?

٩(͡๏̯͡๏)۶ Dum spiro spero... | Twitter: @andrewjstone.

by AndrewJStone on Jun 29, 2010 3:06 PM CDT reply actions  

I'd rather watch the Cubs then that poop.

I don’t understand this crazy vampire fad. I only know the emos started it.

"A dream you dream alone is only a dream. A dream you dream together is reality." John Lennon

by Cubbiegoon on Jun 29, 2010 3:12 PM CDT up reply actions  

How Twilight Works:

Linky

٩(͡๏̯͡๏)۶ Dum spiro spero... | Twitter: @andrewjstone.

by AndrewJStone on Jun 29, 2010 4:02 PM CDT up reply actions  

A word about Theriot

I think the frustration level with Theriot is so high because he doesn’t seem to know his role. He talks about being aggressive at the plate when he should be talking about trying to get on base any way possible. Certainly as a lead off man.

He’s also a good example of the low baseball IQ on this team as a whole. He makes a lot of poor decisions in the field and on the bases. And last night, if he just thought it through, a first pitch change up was very possible to get him to pull the ball. Why go up hacking? Why not look for a pitch he could take the other way.

Theriot is not all that’s wrong with this team, not even mostly, but when a player with such limited skills doesn’t do absolutely everything in his power to make himself an asset but instead ignores his limitations ( and his role) it does tend to set your teeth on edge.

by alexinSac on Jun 29, 2010 3:27 PM CDT reply actions  

True

When someone sucks eventually you just begin shrugging your shoulders. When someone continues to do stupid things it never becomes less bothersome.

by shoemile on Jun 29, 2010 3:37 PM CDT up reply actions  

Can today's game start already

If for no other reason than to give everyone something new to bitch about

Nothing sucks more than that moment during an argument when you realize you're wrong.

by andyp111 on Jun 29, 2010 3:33 PM CDT reply actions  

Why do strange incidents always happen at US Cellular Field?

Barrett, Lou v. Bradley, Z v. the world.

That’s all I got.

Back to watching the Stanley Cup Playoffs over and over.

by San Diego Smooth Jazz Man on Jun 29, 2010 4:09 PM CDT reply actions  

That occurred to me also

makes me wonder if there is pressure attached to these games than we realize. I also noted A. J.’s breaking his bat when he struck out on Sunday.

by azjazzman on Jun 29, 2010 4:18 PM CDT up reply actions  

True that.

Perhaps only India’s Union Carbide Trophy and Russia’s prestigious Ministry of Nuclear Energy Chernobyl Prize approach the glamor of Chicago’s new Cup.

by the nth on Jun 29, 2010 4:28 PM CDT up reply actions  

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