City Of Mesa Has New Plan To Keep Cubs In Arizona
The City of Mesa, Arizona today announced a new plan to keep the Cubs in Arizona that does not involve any taxes on local residents.
Before I ask you to go past the jump for details, I am going to ask everyone to keep their feelings about the recently passed Arizona immigration law to themselves in regards to this issue. While many here may have strong opinions on that law, they do not belong here and are not relevant to this announcement. Thank you.
Now, follow me for the details.
Mesa Mayor Scott Smith and other local leaders today held a news conference to announce that they will sell land that Mesa owns in Pinal County, originally purchased for its water rights, to help finance a new stadium for the Cubs:
Smith also said Mesa will not ask voters in November to approve bonds to pay for the city's share of the project, relying on the land sales instead. He said Mesa no longer needs the Pinal County land to assure its water supply.
Voters will, however, be asked to approve an increase in the bed tax to 5 percent from 3 percent, bringing it in line with recent hikes in Scottsdale and Tempe. The $1 million increase in revenues from the bed tax would be applied to the $5-6 million estimated debt service on the new stadium.
Mesa has an assured supply of water to handle its maximum population and no longer considers it practical or politically feasible to use water allocated to another county, they said.
"The odds of the City of Mesa receiving one drop of that water from that land are slim to none," Smith said.
Smith said Pinal County farmland would be sold off gradually as needed during a 5 to 15 year period to maximum market conditions. He said Mesa doesn't need to sell any land yet because construction on the new stadium wouldn't start until 2012, with the first pitch thrown in 2013.
All funds used on the Cubs training facilities would come out of the city's enterprise fund, which includes revenues from utilities, the convention center and golf courses, and not the general fund, which finances basic government services.
This all makes sense to me. I hope to update this story later this afternoon. The article says that the Cubs are not officially commenting at this time.
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Ha!
The article says that the Cubs are not officially commenting at this time.
What are they going to say? “They blinked!”
:)
"Manny Trillo is coming in to pinch run. You know, for a lot of teams, you would pinch run for Manny Trillo." - Harry Caray
With due respect
the recently passed legislation by the state has immense influence on the attitudes of many people. And while I won’t suggest this is the area to discuss opinions, the Cubs and their decisions will be based upon a certain amount of those feelings.
That being said, isn’t it amazing that Mesa blinked when public opinion forced them to recognize that sports teams can no longer expect a free bailout from taxpayers in today’s world economy.
If a quality pitching start is 3 runs and 6 innings, then a quality hitting day is 1 for 4.
by tharr on Jun 3, 2010 1:36 PM CDT reply actions 6 recs
Just shifting the revenue
sports teams can no longer expect a free bailout from taxpayers in today’s world economy.
No, they can continue to expect it from traveling business men and tourist paying hotel bed taxes and rental car taxes.
"They come to see me strike out, hit a home run, or run into a fence. I try to accommodate them at least one way every game." - Gorman Thomas
by RiskyBusiness on Jun 3, 2010 2:24 PM CDT up reply actions
Agree and Rec'd.
Of course the AZ law affects the Cubs going there. Seems counterproductive to say don’t talk about that when it will affect fans wanting to attend Cubs games.
"Everything has an end, except a sausage, which has two."
by Sandberg's evil twin on Jun 4, 2010 11:13 AM CDT up reply actions
All I have asked is for you to keep your PERSONAL feelings out of it.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
How relevant and timed so well to my recent thoughts
Knowing the NHL season will be over one way or another in just over 8 days, I came to realize how bad the Cubs have got over the last 2-ish years thinking ST for 2009 and 2010 has been my Cubs season highlights.
Now with Mesa trying to make progress w/o screwing the taxpayers (Sorry Al, I feel big time baseball teams should fund their own construction), I’ve come to realize that perhaps the best part of the 2011 season may too be ST and the thought of going to AZ when it’s freezing here to see the progress made on the new facility.
By ST next season, a lot of progress should have been made.
Just win the next game...!
I will keep my feelings about the Arizona Immigration Law to myself
and I respect your desire to avoid political discussion.
But the MLBPA thinks differently:
The impact of the bill signed into law is not limited to the players on one team. The international players on the Diamondbacks work and, with their families, reside in Arizona from April through September or October. In addition, during the season, hundreds of international players on opposing Major League teams travel to Arizona to play the Diamondbacks. And, the spring training homes of half of the 30 Major League teams are now in Arizona. All of these players, as well as their families, could be adversely affected, even though their presence in the United States is legal. Each of them must be ready to prove, at any time, his identity and the legality of his being in Arizona to any state or local official with suspicion of his immigration status. This law also may affect players who are U.S. citizens but are suspected by law enforcement of being of foreign descent.
"The Major League Baseball Players Association opposes this law as written. We hope that the law is repealed or modified promptly. If the current law goes into effect, the MLBPA will consider additional steps necessary to protect the rights and interests of our members.
This Law, currently, is real. And it is real for the players from all teams that have to abide by it. It’s not going away because you don’t want political commentary.
I think we are of common understanding that personal opinion ABOUT the law itself is unwelcome, yet it would be indulgent of a foolish blind spot to eliminate the discussion of the EFFECT of this law on the players and the teams who choose to play games in the state.
WWOZ.org - New Orleans Jazz and Heritage Station
by Gibbon Jockey on Jun 3, 2010 1:54 PM CDT reply actions 5 recs
I failed to italicize the second paragraph of the MLBPA statement
the final two paragraphs not italicized are my commentary.
WWOZ.org - New Orleans Jazz and Heritage Station
by Gibbon Jockey on Jun 3, 2010 1:56 PM CDT up reply actions
I assume the MLBPA also opposes the current federal law which basically says the exact same thing.
Funny how context makes everyone freak the hell out.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Jun 3, 2010 2:31 PM CDT up reply actions 2 recs
Very True
I believe the objection is more with Arizona’s enforcement of the law.
"The big possums walk late." - Harry Caray
Isn't it funny that people are running to the microphones and television cameras
to protest the possibility of issues with the enforcement of a law that has not even gone into effect?
Hey, it's a new century!
by cowsarecool220 on Jun 3, 2010 2:41 PM CDT up reply actions
Well...it's not in effect NOW
but it would be when Spring Training opens.
And I think that’s what’s the consideration here.
WWOZ.org - New Orleans Jazz and Heritage Station
by Gibbon Jockey on Jun 3, 2010 2:45 PM CDT up reply actions
The amount of hand-wringing and rage over this is laughable.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Jun 3, 2010 2:47 PM CDT up reply actions
To bring it back to the issue of the Cubs ST facility,
I find it interesting that this is a great example of problem solving by public officials. I wish elected representatives at all levels could show some imagination and actually get to work at solving problems instead of grand standing for the TV cameras.
It’s really easy to be against someone else’s solution to a problem, it takes much more imagination to create your own solution and actually get it implemented.
Hey, it's a new century!
by cowsarecool220 on Jun 3, 2010 2:56 PM CDT up reply actions
I don't see any hand-wringing or rage in this conversation
but if you’re making a comment about general reactions beyond anything to do with this conversation then you’re right.
WWOZ.org - New Orleans Jazz and Heritage Station
by Gibbon Jockey on Jun 3, 2010 2:59 PM CDT up reply actions
Yes, I'm referring to the MLBPA and other's reactions to the Arizona Immigration Bill.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Jun 3, 2010 3:03 PM CDT up reply actions
Just my opinion...but it's common political fearmongering
As you noted..the law as written isn’t all that different from current Federal statutes….It becomes “WHAT IF YOU ARE PULLED OVER FOR BEING BROWN!!!”
But to bring this full circle for my position – it’s real. And the current political climate is unsettled. I think that it will influence the Cubs Spring Training decision.
WWOZ.org - New Orleans Jazz and Heritage Station
by Gibbon Jockey on Jun 3, 2010 3:07 PM CDT up reply actions
OK... let's slow down here.
Clearly, there may be some fallout to MLB from this new law. We do not know yet what the impact will be. All I’m asking is that people leave their personal feelings out of it, and talking about political fearmongering — whether true or not — is likely going to lead to that.
Let’s leave it here, and discuss the NON immigration ramifications of this instead.
Deal?
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
You're right.
FIrst paragraph in that comment withdrawn.
WWOZ.org - New Orleans Jazz and Heritage Station
by Gibbon Jockey on Jun 3, 2010 3:13 PM CDT up reply actions
OK, I'm going to ignore it and hope it goes away.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Jun 3, 2010 3:15 PM CDT up reply actions
True dat.
I think you are wrong about your previous comment but I know I’m supposed to toe the line so I never said that :)
"Everything has an end, except a sausage, which has two."
by Sandberg's evil twin on Jun 4, 2010 11:19 AM CDT up reply actions
Al, I will say it's pretty interesting that the Ricketts
don’t appear to shy away from doing business with a controversial partner.
I believe they announced the partnerships with both Toyota and BP after the recall and spill had happened. They’ve also continued to pursue a partnership with AZ after this law was passed.
Hey, it's a new century!
by cowsarecool220 on Jun 3, 2010 3:16 PM CDT up reply actions
According to the info I have...
… the Cubs signed the BP deal before the spill; it was announced afterward.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
It's certainly not laughable
to people who are concerned for their personal freedoms.
If a quality pitching start is 3 runs and 6 innings, then a quality hitting day is 1 for 4.
Like I said...
… please keep your personal beliefs out of this.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
My comment was merely
a response to SWL comment. I neither suggested favor or opposition to the law. And while I prefer maintaining political neutrality on a baseball site such as this, your support for the initial tax scheme to build a new facility in Mesa most certainly was interwoven with political implications.
If a quality pitching start is 3 runs and 6 innings, then a quality hitting day is 1 for 4.
So what? Your reactionary posting is stupid, GJ. Al asked that this type
of garbage not be posted.
I think that's the thing...
THere are any number of laws on the books that at glance sound ridiculous…but the fact that it’s an issue being brought to light for enforcement is the issue.
It’s an old ordinance whose enforcement has been made current by Arizona’s actions.
Sure, it’s against the law in Mesa to smoke within 15 ft. of a public place without a Class 12 liquor license, but that’s not enforced. Now that the law is in the headlines, well, what does that mean for enforcement?
Not sure anyone knows.
WWOZ.org - New Orleans Jazz and Heritage Station
by Gibbon Jockey on Jun 3, 2010 2:42 PM CDT up reply actions
GJ, you obviously can't read Al's request. Your politics don't represent
the majority of the country and especially that of the people of Arizona who have to live in the situation.
Are you suggesting
that your comments aren’t politicized and offensive to many?
If a quality pitching start is 3 runs and 6 innings, then a quality hitting day is 1 for 4.
I think GJ's comments have all been very fair and following Al's instructions
I didn’t draw any conclusions about his politics from his postings here. As someone who used to live in Arizona, and is interested in the outcome, I appreciate the overall tone of this discussion.
Fontenot (fon-te-no): Cajun for "scrappy"
I reject your rebuke as I have followed the request and I've never once injected my personal politics
Whether anybody likes or agrees or has an opinion about the law is irrelevant. The facts are that entertainers of all kinds are boycotting arizona, and Cook County itself recently passed a resolution boycotting Arizona businesses.
Arizona is a politically charged environment right now, and for the Cubs to begin negotiations in that area one HAS to recognize that politics are in the discussion.
That’s the current reality.
WWOZ.org - New Orleans Jazz and Heritage Station
by Gibbon Jockey on Jun 3, 2010 9:45 PM CDT up reply actions
The MLBPA objects to law enforcement? Great.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Jun 3, 2010 2:48 PM CDT up reply actions
In truth, they object to the law itself.
If a quality pitching start is 3 runs and 6 innings, then a quality hitting day is 1 for 4.
This is good news
and seems like an easy way to raise funds without voter approval. There is a reader on this board who is familiar with water rights issues, maybe he’ll respond with some insider knowledge of how this works.
This is only the beginning....Lou Pinella end of '07 season and Chicago Transit Authority (the band when they were really good).
Not an issue
The City quit relying on the land for water rights years ago as water law changed and as the politics of it proved to be impossible. While they are called the water fields, they really have nothing to do with that now.
by westerncubbie on Jun 3, 2010 4:30 PM CDT up reply actions
I'm a little shocked that politicians
actually came up with a solution by thinking outside the box.
Hey, it's a new century!
This council
This Mayor along with the support of the city council have shown over the past two years they can think large outside of the box.
by westerncubbie on Jun 3, 2010 4:31 PM CDT up reply actions
They have and it's a cool thing.
I would say that AZ has over its history overused water to its own detriment…which doesn’t seem important until you have to ration it or ask Big Jim Thompson to extend a pipeline from Lake Michigan (which I have to say was a good decision on his part to nix). I hope they don’t ever need the water from the land…and in these economic times I’m sure they need money a lot more.
"Everything has an end, except a sausage, which has two."
by Sandberg's evil twin on Jun 4, 2010 11:23 AM CDT up reply actions
that is great. please advise when the revised pitching rotation is established
and keep Gorzo out of it, please
This is still a city raising money
by selling an asset that in a broke state and bad economy could be used in a million different ways that would help a far wider range of people than spring baseball fans. If I was a resident, I’d still be pissed.
One asset for another
They are using one asset that isn’t producing a cent of revenue and leveraging that asset for something that has proven to bring millions of dollars a year.
by westerncubbie on Jun 3, 2010 4:32 PM CDT up reply actions
I think the nth understands this and is just against the ends not the means.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Jun 3, 2010 4:37 PM CDT up reply actions
And it's coming from their enterprise fund
not the general fund which does affect the citizens of Mesa.
"WGN, Channel 9 Cubs Baseball, Excitingly, Importantly, Dramatically Yours." - Jack Brickhouse
It would be interesting to have a resident's view of this, even with living a few hours away.
Do you live there BigJohn?
Because while the land could be used for millions of people to benefit the community and those that live there year round…I think you have to go with an idea you can be sure will work to generate millions rather than something that’s a huge gamble, especially in current times.
"Everything has an end, except a sausage, which has two."
by Sandberg's evil twin on Jun 4, 2010 11:27 AM CDT up reply actions
That's the problem.
it doesn’t bring in what they say it does. It’s all b.s. The models are b.s and put together by what amount to lobbyists who throw absurd numbers around. Here’s a link from the Cato Institute that explains some of the faulty methodology in selling sports facilities to the public.
I have asked to keep politics out of this.
In any case, whether it brings in that money remains to be seen.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
How do we keep politics out of a discussion that revolves around a government entities decision to use/increase tax $ to fund something?
Seriously Al, how do you expect any of us to do that?
Next you’ll want us to discuss cooking and not mention heat.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Jun 3, 2010 4:50 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
I think people have done a pretty good job of that so far.
What I’m trying to avoid having is a political DEBATE based on your personal party affiliation or other political leanings.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
That's a much more focused request than just saying "keep politics out of this".
I understand what you mean now.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Jun 3, 2010 5:10 PM CDT up reply actions
That article posted by the nth has no political affiliations in it.
I don’t see why you felt the need to post that warning here. Surely keeping the Cubs in Mesa is a governmental decision and laws, taxes, and bonds, etc will all play a part.
"Everything has an end, except a sausage, which has two."
by Sandberg's evil twin on Jun 4, 2010 11:32 AM CDT up reply actions
Sashimi for everyone!
"WGN, Channel 9 Cubs Baseball, Excitingly, Importantly, Dramatically Yours." - Jack Brickhouse
Exactly.
"Everything has an end, except a sausage, which has two."
by Sandberg's evil twin on Jun 4, 2010 11:29 AM CDT up reply actions
I don't understand what was political about
what I posted. Was it the inclusion of the words Cato Institute? Someone has to finance these studies. I don’t even agree with most of what the Cato Institute espouses but the study is on topic and apolitical.
I just hope whatever the Cubs and Mesa do
will piss off Reinsdork, Kenny Williams, Chicken Hawk Harrelson, etc…
Carlos Silva lemonade: made from freshly squeezed Milton Bradley lemons. -- the Jim Hendry kook book.
by LAcarl519 on Jun 3, 2010 11:07 PM CDT reply actions 1 recs
When they stop playing God Bless America...
…in some ballparks (other than Wrigley, to the Cubs’ credit) during the seventh-inning stretch instead of Take Me Out To The Ball Game, and insisting that people stand in reverence for it, and apprehending and ejecting people for going to the men’s room during it (I’m looking at you, New York Yankees), I’ll feel bound by appeals to leave politics out of baseball.
Yankees suck.
by Steaming Pile on Jun 4, 2010 7:02 AM CDT reply actions 1 recs
That's all well and good.
But I haven’t asked you to leave politics out of baseball. I have asked you to leave politics off this site. I am sure you can see the difference.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
Bravo to Mayor Smith
I just returned from a week in AZ. Folks familiar with the East Valley will tell you that depleting underground acquifers has resulted in numerous fizzures which have claimed residential homes & property. Selling this idle land to help finance the stadium seems like a great idea. As a Cub fan who owns a home in Pinal County, it’s downright brilliant!!!
Kurt speaks for me...http://www.kurtwarner.org/

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