Padilla, Dodgers Shut Out Cubs 7-0; More Blown Calls. Replay Now!
One day after looking pretty good in defeating the Dodgers 7-3, the Cubs returned to the ways of most of the first half of 2010. They got shut out for the seventh time this season, 7-0 by the Dodgers, and finished the first half a terrible 39-50, their worst record at the All-Star break since 2006, when they went into the break at 34-54 on their way to a 96-loss season.
Will this year wind up that bad? Does this team have a run in it? We don't know the answers yet (they probably lie somewhere in between). First, a brief recap of a game in which the Cubs had no hits until the sixth inning and which was basically over when James Loney hit the 12th pitch of the game into the right-field seats for a three-run homer.
There were a few items of note in this otherwise one-sided game:
- Ryan Theriot had two doubles. That amounts to 18% (2 of 11) of all his extra-base hits for the entire season. The last time Theriot had more than one XBH in a game was almost exactly a year ago, July 12, 2009, the first game of a doubleheader vs. the Cardinals, also the day before the All-Star break, when he also had two doubles.
- Marlon Byrd was hit by a Vicente Padilla pitch in the seventh inning. The look on Byrd's face was priceless -- there's history between these two. They've been teammates with both the Phillies and Rangers, including last year in Texas, and when Padilla was outright-released by Texas in August last year, Byrd publicly applauded the move:
"About time," Byrd said. "It's absolutely a positive for this team. We have to get rid of the negatives to make a positive, and I believe this is a huge positive for this team."
- And thus, props to Andrew Cashner, who came into the game in the eighth and promptly nailed Blake DeWitt, causing the umpires to warn both benches.
- Finally, there were three more close calls at first base last night after the badly blown one on Saturday. The first one was correct -- Xavier Nady never tagged Padilla on his bunt attempt. But four batters later, when James Loney hit a ground ball to Nady and Carlos Silva was slow getting off the mound, 1B umpire Brian Runge called Loney safe. Replays showed he was out. Silva got himself tossed -- the way he was pitching, his worst outing of the year, that was probably a good thing. In the top of the eighth, on a similar play, Starlin Castro was called out, but replays showed he was safe. According to this tweet from Carrie, we almost had a real scene:
1st base ump Brian Runge nearly had to eject entire #Cubs dugout after another bad call. James Loney was off the bag
So, after the jump, I'm going to get back on my soapbox about replay review.
After some of the awful calls in last year's postseason, I made this simple proposal for replay review:
Each manager gets two "red flag" challenges to rulings on the field, which would be limited to: home runs, fair/foul calls, safe/out rulings, and trapped/caught fly balls or line drives. The red flag must be thrown before the next pitch; managers would have to make sure they pay close attention to questionable calls so they could throw the flag quickly. A fifth umpire would be stationed in the press box for review; this umpire would be part of the regular rotation of the crew, giving every umpire an every-5th-game break from field duty, and would also serve as official scorer. After the 7th inning of every game, the red flag system is eliminated and all close plays of this type are subject to mandatory review (similar to the NFL's mandatory review in the last two minutes). Just as in NFL review, replays would have to show conclusive evidence to overturn the ruling on the field.
This is simple and to the point and would not delay games any longer than they already are with managers trudging slowly out of the dugout to argue calls. Managers would know that they have an alternative -- and unlike last night, player ejections would also be reduced to near zero, because a player involved in such an obviously wrong call as the one Silva was ejected on would simply stand aside and let the play be reviewed. (As noted, the ejection of Silva last night was probably a good thing, the way he was pitching. Cubs relievers threw 6.2 innings last night and gave up two hits and one run.)
Again, I don't see how anyone could be against such a system. With a fifth umpire in the press box, in contact with the crew chief on the field by radio, you wouldn't even have the delays you have now for home run review where the umpires have to leave the field. On the two occasions where home runs have been reviewed at Wrigley Field since the HR review system was implemented, the delays have been no more than three minutes.
In most games you'd never use this at all. In the last two games, you'd have used it several times. It still wouldn't have delayed games longer than they already were by having Lou trudge on and off the field, or Silva have his little tantrum.
Somebody wake up Bud Selig and make him do this.
Finally, I didn't want to let this recap go without some comments about the remarks Tom Ricketts made to beat writers yesterday in Los Angeles, as reported by Bruce Miles:
Carrie Muskat of mlb.com says Ricketts was "still having fun in his first season as owner." Not sure the fans feel the same way. Ricketts so far refuses to play the blame game, specifically when it comes to GM Jim Hendry. Ricketts told Carrie and the other writers that he "had the highest level of confidence" in Hendry.
"I'm not going to assign blame to anyone or anything," Ricketts told the writers. "The fact is we came into the season, we had what appeared to be a pretty strong lineup. It hasn't worked out for whatever reason and it seems like the guys are putting it together now and let's just keep winning."
"The fact is right now, Jim is our general manager, I support him, I think he does a great job, and after that we'll just take it one day at a time," Ricketts told reporters, possibly leaving himself some wiggle room for a change after the season if he wants to make one.
Right now, it doesn't appear so and I believe any speculation by writers is just that, speculation. I know a lot of you won't click on Paul Sullivan links (and really, this is yet another ridiculous feud that ought to end), but a clue to some background on Ricketts' comments is in Sullivan's article on the topic:
Ricketts was in town with a couple of his children to watch Tuesday's All-Star Game in Anaheim. He stopped by Dodger Stadium on Sunday to watch the Cubs' first-half finale and reluctantly agreed to answer some questions.
Sounds like it was an impromptu, off-the-cuff meeting rather than any sort of formal interview, and Ricketts wanted to be civil and cordial as well as noncommittal. I don't think you can read anything more into it than that.
The All-Star break ought to be a real break for the team and for every one of us, too. The only Cub involved at all is Byrd. Hope he gets a chance to contribute and doesn't get hurt.
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The only thing which is really irritating, IMHO, was the failure to score at least a few runs.
"A waist is a terrible thing to mind." - Terry 'Fat Tub of Goo' Forster
But you've seen that over and over again
I have gotten used to that, to be honest. It’s a nice surprise to see this team score more than 2 runs every now and then.
www.facebook.com/craighudak
by Craig in South Bend on Jul 12, 2010 9:44 AM CDT up reply actions
Yes we've seen it over and over again this year.
But it still bugs the hell out of me, especially with quality of the starting pitching.
"A waist is a terrible thing to mind." - Terry 'Fat Tub of Goo' Forster
This is such a sad commentary on the season
when scoring 2+ runs is a “nice surprise”. During the All-Star break I think I will watch the “Sandberg Game” to remind myself that “Yes, the Cubs have scored more than 2 runs in a game and, yes, there was a time when they fought for a victory the whole game.”
Every player should be accorded the privilege of at least one season with the Chicago Cubs. That's baseball as it should be played - in God's own sunshine. And that's really living. ~Alvin Dark
The other sports are just sports. Baseball is a love. ~Bryant Gumbel, 1981
Or you could just watch a game from, oh, 2008.
Nobody cares about your fantasy baseball team
by carmen_fanzone on Jul 12, 2010 4:24 PM CDT up reply actions
I wondered why Silva pitched at all. Give him that many more days to get well.
One of Lee Elia's 15%
In hindsight, that's true.
He said he was “good to go” before the game. Based on his performance, yes, Atkins probably should have started.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
Lou's comments were confusing to me,
that he was going to give Silva a lot of days off after the break. In yesterday’s Cub Bits in the Trib, Paul Sullivan lists the post-break rotation, with Silva scheduled last. Then Lou’s quoted:
We’re giving Silva as much time as possible after the break.
Why not shut him down now instead of risking aggravating the sore right calf? Didn’t make sense to me.
One of Lee Elia's 15%
by waiting4cubs on Jul 12, 2010 8:22 AM CDT up reply actions
Yeah, I agree with you based on last night's game and those comments.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
Lou continues to confound me
with his decisions on lineups. There seems no pattern to what he comes up with. and yesterday, for the first time all year, I fell asleep during the game and didn’t bother rewinding.
If a quality pitching start is 3 runs and 6 innings, then a quality hitting day is 1 for 4.
Silva wanted to play...
Read somewhere, can’t recall, where Silva was actually quoted saying something to the effect that he was fine and wanted to pitch.
by HotDogDude on Jul 12, 2010 9:30 AM CDT via mobile up reply actions
Can we institute replay of this whole season?
by ASpecialGuestAppearance on Jul 12, 2010 8:42 AM CDT reply actions
Sorry
but I am sure not much would change and we would be subjected to this all over again.
Go Cubs!
Well, first of all
I would know to only watch Carlos Silva pitch.
by ASpecialGuestAppearance on Jul 12, 2010 5:35 PM CDT up reply actions
Not from me.
Ask those who are carrying it on.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
That's okay. Just curious. Not interested enough to pursue.
One of Lee Elia's 15%
by waiting4cubs on Jul 12, 2010 9:14 AM CDT up reply actions
I don't know of any "feud"...
(that implies it’s two-way btw…), but at least speaking for myself, I just think he, like most sports reporters is terrible at his job, and is guided by his emotions and perceived slights as opposed to any sort of facts…
As such, I choose to not waste my time reading him. I don’t see why I should have to “end” that…
by CubsWin!Oregon on Jul 12, 2010 12:45 PM CDT up reply actions
In my opinion
Sullivan is particularly bad at his job. He isn’t good at it and doesn’t seem to enjoy it.
DEJESUS!!!
How could you give props to Cashner for hitting DeWitt???
I do not believe in “retaliation”. Getting hit on purpose by a 100 mph fastball could cause serious injury. Cashner and Piniella should have been immediately ejected. This is not Little League ball.
"Hey-Hey! Home Run! Attaboy Ronnie!" ~ Jack Brickhouse
You think Padilla should have been able to get away with what he did?
I’m not usually one for retaliation. In this case I think it was justified.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
Uh-huh
Last year, you did everything but call me a serial killer when I applauded Ted Lilly’s actions.
Welcome to the club, Al. I’m glad you’re with the real world now.
There is no such thing as an ugly female breast
In certain cases.
Not every case. This time, Padilla’s actions were so obvious that it did call for a response.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
And there's a difference plunking someone below the waist protecting your teammate
and headhunting, which should NEVER be tolerated on any level.
We have met the enemy and they are us! ~ Walt Kelly, Pogo, 1971
No Al
In every case. Professional baseball isn’t Saturday afternoon bridge club. By the same token, it isn’t barbaric so balls at the head aren’t tolerated but retaliation or even instigation is absolutely appropriate. The game isn’t for the soft.
"When the day comes with that last winning run and I'm crying and covered in beer. I'll look to the sky and know I was right to think someday we'll go all the way." - Vedder
Respectfully disagree.
Depends on the situation. You’re saying every HBP requires a response? No.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
No
Guys that have played above a certain level understand when a pitch has intent and when one doesn’t. Obviously there are exceptions, usually held for the guys that are irrational in the first place.
Fans don’t understand this for the most part, and never will, unless they have played above a certain level. So no, I’m not saying that every HBP deserves a response…but I am saying that HBP’s both intentional and retaliatory are a necessary and appropriate part of the game.
"When the day comes with that last winning run and I'm crying and covered in beer. I'll look to the sky and know I was right to think someday we'll go all the way." - Vedder
Your right...
….over 80% of the time, you know when a guy is being thrown at. I also understand the inkind response to protect your teamates.
What I don’t like (and this is mostly a thing of the past) is when a team throws at a guy because he has hit a couple homers. Do you see hitters letting their bat slip out of their hand toward the pitcher after he strikes out the side?
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
You two are saying the same thing
Sometimes guys are just hit by a pitch. And sometimes the pitcher hits them with a pitch.
There was absolutely nothing necessary nor appropriate about Padilla’s HBP on Byrd yesterday. Nothing within the confines of yesterday’s game warranted that HBP.
But spare us the “played above a certain level” spiel. That’s crap. It’s not hard to tell the difference between a bean ball and curve that missed it’s break. The funny thing is that umpire now are not allowed to determine if it was intentional or not. After yesterday’s warning to both benches, any HBP would have resulted in an ejection.
"They come to see me strike out, hit a home run, or run into a fence. I try to accommodate them at least one way every game." - Gorman Thomas
by RiskyBusiness on Jul 12, 2010 2:37 PM CDT up reply actions
There was absolutely nothing necessary nor appropriate about Padilla’s HBP on Byrd yesterday. Nothing within the confines of yesterday’s game warranted that HBP.
One inning earlier, Dodgers starter Vicente Padilla had hit former Texas teammate Marlon Byrd, who had applauded Padilla’s release from the Rangers last year, saying it was “about time” and calling it “absolutely a positive” move.
http://www.chicagobreakingsports.com/2010/07/-by-paul-sullivan-los.html
by jesus christos on Jul 12, 2010 3:36 PM CDT up reply actions
Saw that on the train this morning
I’m sure Blake DeWitt feels much better knowing that.
"They come to see me strike out, hit a home run, or run into a fence. I try to accommodate them at least one way every game." - Gorman Thomas
by RiskyBusiness on Jul 12, 2010 3:43 PM CDT up reply actions
So every curve ball that loses control deserves a plunk to the ass-cushion?
And every splitter that clips a shin deserves a fastball in the middle of the spine?
Nah…
by Steven Schweickert on Jul 12, 2010 11:52 AM CDT up reply actions
Shame the Cubs couldn't drill Padilla
This was too much like the AL beanball-by-proxy wars that go for several series.
Uh, try telling that to somebody like Tony La Russa.
If you’re gonna peg my player, purposefully, I’m surely going to be peg your player, too. What’s fair is fair.
"The riches of the game are in the thrills, not the money." --Ernie Banks
They don't teach that in little league
The concept of "retaliation’ is lost on young guys; it’s not until they get to high school or Pony/Colt-ball age that it’s even discussed. And even then, it’d never be wholly or readily acknowledged.
"I'll take one in the mouth over the eyes any day". - AJ Pierzynski
by lostinthevines on Jul 12, 2010 9:20 AM CDT up reply actions
Wow
So let me get this straight, you don’t believe Cashner should have drilled someone because this isn’t “Little League” ball where the implication you’re making is that doing so is OK at that level? Has the world turned upside down and I didn’t notice it? My goodness man, if that is really your line of thinking, congratulations, you’ve just made the single-most uneducated post on this entire site…which takes some signficant effort.
Here a hint….not only was Cashner entirely correct in his actions, he would have been painted as soft in the Cubs clubhouse, and around baseball, had he not done what he did. He did it the correct way and in the correct manner and it now should be over. What he did isn’t condoned at any other level of non-professional baseball, although that same practice is indeed done at every level that isn’t Little League.
And as a side note, I firmly believe that this Cubs staff, decent enough as it is, does not hit enough guys quite frankly, whether intentional or otherwise. And lastly, Cashner’s remarks about the pitch slipping and all of that is as much a part of the dance as the HBP was….and always will be.
"When the day comes with that last winning run and I'm crying and covered in beer. I'll look to the sky and know I was right to think someday we'll go all the way." - Vedder
by krummy12 on Jul 12, 2010 11:07 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
shut up and go watch bowling then.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Jul 12, 2010 11:08 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
I'm not usually for retaliation.
Last night, it may have been warranted.
I didn't believe it last August, but it turns out that love survives.
Mount Washington conquered July 5, 2010
State high point count: 3/50
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Jul 12, 2010 12:24 PM CDT up reply actions
There are definitely situations where it is called for
but it must be done correctly to “sting” but not injure a player. Maddux pretty much became a legend for hitting Benito Santiago after Eric Show hit Dawson in the head and that was when Maddux was a bad pitcher. It is of course one of those many "unwritten " rules.
On the flip side and as I have mentioned before I think the single worse thing Ozzie has ever done was send in a kid just called up from the minors to "hit ’ someone ( because he did not want to “waste” a regular pitcher) and then scream at him in public on national TV until the kid cried when the kid failed to hit the batter and was ejected.
The vast majority of the time pitchers and hitters know the difference between lack of control and intentionally hitting batter and things are handled accordingly.
"Lou Piniella's been a great manager for a long time and I stand by him completely"
by Doggie Stalker on Jul 12, 2010 3:02 PM CDT up reply actions
The problem is Padilla ideally would have been the target for the retaliation
Hopefully the next time the Cubs face Padilla, the first time he comes up he catches one. That would go a long way to regulating the problem.
I always turn to the sports section first. The sports page records people's accomplishments; the front page has nothing but man's failures.
~Earl Warren
by lookingdeadred on Jul 13, 2010 8:29 AM CDT up reply actions
Cubs don't play the Dodgers again this year.
To carry it over to another year would be ridiculous.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
Not necessarily
Padilla carried it over from another time. Next year if Padilla faces the Cubs, whoever is starting for the Cubs should hit Padilla to let him know he cannot throw at Cub players with impunity.
I always turn to the sports section first. The sports page records people's accomplishments; the front page has nothing but man's failures.
~Earl Warren
by lookingdeadred on Jul 14, 2010 8:10 AM CDT up reply actions
I can’t believe we were no-hit until the sixth. This team, even when it “appears” like it has life (i.e. Lou and Carlos getting fired up), seems dead. No hit by Vincente Padilla for six innings?! Com’on!
"The riches of the game are in the thrills, not the money." --Ernie Banks
Please don't equate the "fired up" with life.
Yelling and screaming isn’t what a baseball team needs to be competitive. I thought we put this to rest after the Z tirade.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
Call it what you want to call it.
No-hit by Vincente Padilla isn’t life, fire, or any other name.
And the Zambrano incident is different; that’s him being an idiot and/or mental health issues.
"The riches of the game are in the thrills, not the money." --Ernie Banks
Agreed that the team looked pretty dead last night.
It’s not the first time. And “fire” isn’t going to help them win. Better players would.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
This team needs fire!
Fire Immolate Lou!
I'll go to my grave believing Armando Galarraga tossed the 21st perfect game in MLB history.
Agreed
This club needs much better players than the twilight version of Derrek Lee.
"When the day comes with that last winning run and I'm crying and covered in beer. I'll look to the sky and know I was right to think someday we'll go all the way." - Vedder
I wish Derrek Lee would sparkle....
that would at lest be mildly entertaining to watch.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Jul 12, 2010 11:11 AM CDT up reply actions
With due respect...
you argued they were ipso facto not the same thing. Some of us disagree (though no need to rehash the argument). Nothing was “put to rest” just because you (or me) decided on an opinion.
And excuse my replying to you again. Not trying to target your posts, I promise! :)
by CubsWin!Oregon on Jul 12, 2010 12:51 PM CDT up reply actions
To Padilla's credit, he's a major league pitcher
Even the worst MLB pitchers are capable of no-hitting teams through six innings.
RIP Ronnie James Dio (July 10, 1942 - May 16, 2010).
The Rays are doing more
I always turn to the sports section first. The sports page records people's accomplishments; the front page has nothing but man's failures.
~Earl Warren
by lookingdeadred on Jul 13, 2010 8:30 AM CDT up reply actions
...
Even the worst MLB pitchers are capable of no-hitting teams the Cubs through six innings.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Jul 12, 2010 11:07 AM CDT up reply actions
Being no-hit until the mid to late innings has happened multiple times now, right?
Does anyone know how many games this has happened?
www.facebook.com/craighudak
by Craig in South Bend on Jul 12, 2010 9:46 AM CDT up reply actions
Ask The Rays
Two perfect games & one no hitter against in about a year …
I reject your reality and substitute my own.
by WayneCampbell08 on Jul 12, 2010 5:22 PM CDT up reply actions
Red's have easiest second half schedule
sigh.
"Get up or GET OUT THE WAY!"
~Stacy King
by wrigleyrocker12 on Jul 12, 2010 9:10 AM CDT reply actions
Baseball karma says they'll have the most difficult time winning then...
We have met the enemy and they are us! ~ Walt Kelly, Pogo, 1971
Baseball karma only applies to the Cubs
RIP Ronnie James Dio (July 10, 1942 - May 16, 2010).
by Ace Venom on Jul 12, 2010 9:27 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
That ought to be a published Law of Physics
Objects fall at 32fps per second.
Baseball karma only applies to the Cubs.
Who is the Red's manager again????
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
That whole game made me want to puke
You new it was over after the first inning HR, two close calls that BOTH went against the Cubs, no-hits until the 6th, more stranded runners with less than two outs, etc.
I was actually looking forward to watching them on primetime after Saturday’s win. I won’t do that again soon.
And how can Pinella not get tossed after his pitcher gets tossed? Why would any of these guys want to play for him at this point?
Oh, and one more whining point for me this morning: There is absolutely NO REASON to continue to play Nady. He is pathetic. Put anybody else at first if Lee needs a rest.
How do the Cubs rate 3 ESPN Sunday night games in a row?
Yesterday vs. the dodgers, 7/18 vs. the phillies, and 7/25 vs. the cardinals. 4th place in the NL Central, 9.5 games out of first place, and 11 under .500 must equal primetime.
"They come to see me strike out, hit a home run, or run into a fence. I try to accommodate them at least one way every game." - Gorman Thomas
Another way to look at it is ESPN wanted
the Dogers, Phillies and Cardinals…and the Cubs just happened to be the cannon fodder…

We have met the enemy and they are us! ~ Walt Kelly, Pogo, 1971
Wouldn't the guy who invented cannons be its fodder?
I'll go to my grave believing Armando Galarraga tossed the 21st perfect game in MLB history.
No, it would the cannon's muddler.
"A waist is a terrible thing to mind." - Terry 'Fat Tub of Goo' Forster
"Hello Muddah, Hello Faddah" ... - Alan Sherman
We have met the enemy and they are us! ~ Walt Kelly, Pogo, 1971
"Would a mudder eat its fodder?" - Lou Costello
I'll go to my grave believing Armando Galarraga tossed the 21st perfect game in MLB history.
Bud the Dud doing something?!?
Bud’s specialty is doing nothing, and he does that very well. Note his long-running excellence at doing nothing about PEDs until forced by Congress.
Bud's only job is to make owners money
They make money from the All-Star Game being worth something and that little thing known as regular season interleague play. Replay really doesn’t make anyone money and I’m surprised MLB adopted it for home run calls.
RIP Ronnie James Dio (July 10, 1942 - May 16, 2010).
Not too much of a stretch.
Call Sony. They’ll likely provide a good portion of the equipment needed for video replay anyways.
٩(͡๏̯͡๏)۶ Dum spiro spero... | Twitter: @andrewjstone.
by AndrewJStone on Jul 12, 2010 12:43 PM CDT up reply actions
So, while we await the replay call...
why not pop open another Duff cool one? You’ll be happy you did!
They already do in football.
Everything is sponsored, it’s sadly not needed to suggest it. Like the “Freshtake hotline” in radio, or the “Powered by” in other sports, nothing is missed. Commercials will immediately be played when the review starts, and a sponsored by will appear as soon as they are over.
"The ones who want to achieve and win championships motivate themselves." - Da Coach
by Sandberg's evil twin on Jul 12, 2010 7:37 PM CDT up reply actions
Selig likes to believe that it's still 1958
Wouldn’t surprise me one bit if he thought the Senators were still in Washington, and he believed the St. Louis Browns would make a playoff run “any day now.”
If it's 1958, the Braves should still be in Milwaukee...
… so Bud shouldn’t have had to bring the Brewers there, and should have stayed a car dealer.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
Get the Braves to move back to Milwaukee...
… then the Brewers can move back to Seattle and become the Pilots again.
Then we have to figure out what to do with the Mariners. Hmmm….
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
Establish
a “retro” league. Pilots, Browns, Expos, Senators, Milwaukee Braves, etc. I’d pay to see that.
Doesn’t really solve the Selig issue, and kinda off-topic, but a league like that would be fun to watch.
Make it a B League
If you finish in the bottom of the standings in MLB, you get relegated, and the top team in the B league gets promoted for next season.
"Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have?" -Frank Chance
"If [Ruth] had [called his shot], I would have knocked him down with the next pitch." -Charlie Root
Mariners
would have to move to Atlanta, no?
by Josh Timmers on Jul 12, 2010 12:33 PM CDT up reply actions
and they are the defending WS champs
I always turn to the sports section first. The sports page records people's accomplishments; the front page has nothing but man's failures.
~Earl Warren
by lookingdeadred on Jul 13, 2010 8:31 AM CDT up reply actions
Al's red flag concept for reviewing calls is intriguing
Question: what happens if the game goes extra innings? Do they continue with mandatory reviews, even if the game goes 19 innings?
I'll go to my grave believing Armando Galarraga tossed the 21st perfect game in MLB history.
I'm guessing the review would be conditional upon the umpires
Players can simply stall and hope replay comes. They do it in the NFL. One of the reasons you see offenses try to hurry in situations like that is that replay becomes invalid after the next play is run.
RIP Ronnie James Dio (July 10, 1942 - May 16, 2010).
So in the NFL
if a game goes overtime, are all of the calls (or at least the questionable ones) reviewed upstairs?
I'll go to my grave believing Armando Galarraga tossed the 21st perfect game in MLB history.
I don't see any problem with mandatory review in extra innings.
Again, how many of these would you really see?
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
i'm all for replay
I agree with having one umpire sit in a booth with the ability to communicate to the crew chief or somebody. i don’t see the need for a red flag or something because there is no way to punish someone for a wrong challenge (like a lost timeout). You can’t take away a ball or add a strike or add/subtract an out or something like that. Just leave the reviewing up to the umpire in the booth. Fair/foul, out/safe, trap/catch, and home run/not home run would all that need to be reviewed. Why is tradition or “pace of the game” or any of that other crap worth incorrect outcomes of games?
^ this
Hawk’s solution is the only one that might be better than Al’s. Just have the fifth guy in the booth review the calls and overturn the on-field ruling if necessary.
I'll go to my grave believing Armando Galarraga tossed the 21st perfect game in MLB history.
You could do that.
The “penalty”, if you want to call it that, is that you get two red flags per game. If you use ’em both up in the first two innings, you cannot challenge a play later.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
another thought about replay
maybe this has been hashed out here before, but what is the difference between replay and an appeal to 1st or 3rd on a check swing? granted an appeal takes 1-2 seconds and a booth review would probably minimally take 10-15 seconds, but in principle are they not the very similar?
Similar, yes.
And there are times when umpires have a conference and make sure they get a call right. This would just make that an official duty.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
With check swings, they already to confer so to speak
It is quite common for the plate ump to ask for help.
I always turn to the sports section first. The sports page records people's accomplishments; the front page has nothing but man's failures.
~Earl Warren
by lookingdeadred on Jul 13, 2010 8:35 AM CDT up reply actions
I support replay
but I think replay on balls and strikes is a big no way.
I always turn to the sports section first. The sports page records people's accomplishments; the front page has nothing but man's failures.
~Earl Warren
by lookingdeadred on Jul 13, 2010 8:34 AM CDT up reply actions
Agree 100%.
Let’s just get the calls right. Let’s not copy the NFL method.
by Fraggin Judge on Jul 12, 2010 10:05 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
An extra ump in the booth?
The umps union might go for it for that reason.
I always turn to the sports section first. The sports page records people's accomplishments; the front page has nothing but man's failures.
~Earl Warren
by lookingdeadred on Jul 13, 2010 8:33 AM CDT up reply actions
Cleveland Browns fans would like to have a word with you.
The NFL once reviewed a questionable completion in a Browns-Jaguars game after the Browns ran up and spiked the ball.
The completion was overturned, and Browns fans threw beer bottles onto the field for 15 minutes.
I didn't believe it last August, but it turns out that love survives.
Mount Washington conquered July 5, 2010
State high point count: 3/50
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Jul 12, 2010 12:27 PM CDT up reply actions
Overturning a completed pass with replay shaves almost 6 minutes off Clevland Fooball Fans Tantrums!
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Jul 12, 2010 12:30 PM CDT up reply actions
I'm sure the bottles were empty
www.facebook.com/craighudak
by Craig in South Bend on Jul 12, 2010 1:18 PM CDT up reply actions
Some of the bottles actually were not.
I didn't believe it last August, but it turns out that love survives.
Mount Washington conquered July 5, 2010
State high point count: 3/50
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Jul 12, 2010 6:19 PM CDT up reply actions
Luckily
LeBron was watching a Cowboys game in his NY hat and unhurt during the incident.
"The ones who want to achieve and win championships motivate themselves." - Da Coach
by Sandberg's evil twin on Jul 12, 2010 7:41 PM CDT up reply actions
I think a better concept would be to allow a theoretically limitless number of reviews,
however if a team requests a review and the decision goes against the requesting team, they are assigned a “request strike”. After two or three “request strikes” the team loses the right to request reviews for the rest of the game.
"A waist is a terrible thing to mind." - Terry 'Fat Tub of Goo' Forster
Reversed call should count against two challenge limit
Unlike the NFL, I’d suggest not counting a reversed call as using of of the manager’s two challenges. There were at least three plays in the last series which would have been reversed with instant replay. If they had all happened in the the first seven innings of the same game, the Cubs would only have been able to challenge the first two.
I hate Al's "Flag" proposal
He’s saying if two bad calls go against you, we’ll overturn it but if there’s a third, you’re stuck. Its the stupid NFL system.
If you’re going to get the call right, get the call right. Do it like college football does—just stick an umpire in the booth and have him watch the game. If he sees something he wants to look at, he can buzz the field umps and viceversa.
by Josh Timmers on Jul 12, 2010 12:36 PM CDT up reply actions
Why is the NFL's replay system stupid?
The system works incredible well. Please separate your own opinion from facts.
www.facebook.com/craighudak
by Craig in South Bend on Jul 12, 2010 1:19 PM CDT up reply actions
A lot of people don't like the NFL system...
and would probably take issue with claiming that “it works incredibly well.”
by CubsWin!Oregon on Jul 12, 2010 1:31 PM CDT up reply actions
What are the complaints about the NFL system?
It’s not perfect, but I think it does work pretty well.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
Flow of the game for one...
Football already suffers from dramatic disparity between the game being played vs. non-action. The replay system doesn’t help that at all. I’ve also heard more practical complaints about the system’s weaknesses (obviously no system can be perfect).
What I find more interesting are the broader philosophical views on the incongruity of the events you’re watching on the field versus what counts etc. Joe Posnanski had a pretty good column about not too long ago.
More or less, the argument comes down to where you fall on the spectrum of the games being played freely and flowing versus the perfect application of all rules at all times. in football, where every play has numerous infractions that aren’t called (replay or no), the application is more or less arbitrary. So there is more ground available for disagreement on how well a replay system promotes the integrity of the game.
by CubsWin!Oregon on Jul 12, 2010 2:00 PM CDT up reply actions
Absolutely agree
Let’s not lose sight of the real problem here…these games need better officials, plain and simple. I don’t buy the argument that the players have gotten too big and fast for them, perhaps that argument can be taken up concerning the NFL but I’m not doing it here.
The real problem is that there are too many bad umpires, period. The process as it stands has been fine for years and years. Some of the stooges who operate within the system just aren’t very good.
Using an old line and massaging it a bit, what do you call the bottom 10% of all MLB umpires? Umpire. Until and unless MLB is ready to actually hold some of these oafs accountable for their performance and jettison the bottom 10% every season, the problem won’t be solved. Replay doesn’t solve that no matter what shape or form it would take.
The solution is simple…find better umpires….or at least hold the bad ones accountable.
"When the day comes with that last winning run and I'm crying and covered in beer. I'll look to the sky and know I was right to think someday we'll go all the way." - Vedder
The solution is simple…find better umpires….or at least hold the bad ones accountable.
And yet, a lot of the blown calls were from some of the most respected umpires in the game. Tim McClellan, one of the best in the business, blew one in the playoffs last year. Jim Joyce, at fault in the Galarraga game, was widely praised as being a very good umpire.
Point: even good umpires can blow calls. GET THEM RIGHT. Technology exists to help them and umpires are beginning to come around and support the use of replay.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
Of course
Everyone will miss one. The bad ones just miss way more than the good ones.
If you’re going to “get them right”, you may as well implement some sort of tennis-style, laser strike zone and calls balls and strikes from the booth.
For my money, the home plate umpire is equally likely, and in some cases more likely, to influence a game by butchering balls and strikes than a missed call on the bases, which not coincidentally occur more often than not because an umpire fails to get in the proper position…or even isn’t paying attention altogether. And no, I don’t buy into the Questec results even in the least.
"When the day comes with that last winning run and I'm crying and covered in beer. I'll look to the sky and know I was right to think someday we'll go all the way." - Vedder
Agreed that balls & strikes can be missed.
However, those do come under more of “umpire’s judgment” (although there is supposed to be a standard strike zone) than the plays I would like to see replayed.
An umpire can see a ball right on the edge of the plate and call it a ball; another umpire might see a pitch in the same place and call it a strike.
However, as in the plays over the weekend, you are either out or not. A ball either is inside or outside the foul line. A HR either goes over the yellow line or it doesn’t. There is no judgment involved. GET THE CALLS RIGHT.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
And use the replays...
as a way to grade the umpires. The umps with the least amount of overturned calls throughout the year, move onto the playoffs.
Ron Santo - 8,143 ABs, .277 BA; 342 HR; 1331 RBI = NO Hall of Fame?
Brooks Robinson - 10,654 ABs, .267 BA; 268 HR; 1357 RBI = Hall of Fame.
Any more questions ?
I dont think that
the increase in blown calls has anything more to do with the fact that there are infinately more cameras in stadiums and slow mo replays on TV…you cannot tell me that in the 1930’s the umps were that much better than today, just no tv to replay a blown call, over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and…
Sipping the Kool-Aid since 1982 - Kinda
Currently 34,839 on the Season Ticket Wait List - Expected age of being #0: 119
That's definitely part of it.
HD cameras and extreme slo-mo replays definitely show more mistakes, and there are more angles to show them from, too.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
Try it yourself
That the NFL has a replay system is a fact. That it works incredibly well is an opinion.
Kind of fifth grade stuff. You should know that.
by Josh Timmers on Jul 12, 2010 3:21 PM CDT up reply actions
Whatever system they decide on...
… pick SOMETHING. Doing nothing is costing teams games, as I noted in the Saturday recap (a blown call cost the Twins a game vs. the Mariners, only a couple days after the missed call in the Galarraga game).
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
An interesting thought
I wonder who has been the recipient of the most blown calls this year? It really seems like more than usual have gone against us.
Living in Michigan, I’m sure a lot of Tiger fans would just say “we lost a damn perfect game, I don’t care how many he-missed-the-tag calls you didn’t get,” but I do wonder if blown calls is the one category the Cubs lead in this year.
Whoa
Missing a 1-1 strike call in the 3rd inning can be just as damaging as a missed play in the bottom of the ninth in a tie game. Sounding the alarm only when a bad call affects the last play of the game, or results in something similar, isn’t proper. Sounding the alarm on all bad calls is.
"When the day comes with that last winning run and I'm crying and covered in beer. I'll look to the sky and know I was right to think someday we'll go all the way." - Vedder
I implore you
all to boycott the stupid All-Star game. It’s beyond backward, and the fans must speak by showing their displeasure. If fans can vote for players not deserving, maybe we can also send a signal to the walking corpse called Bud Selig.
Jeff from Cleveland wrote- I've figured out the moral of the story: Stay in school. Wade: 3 years at Marquette, Bosh: 1 year at Georgia Tech, the kid from Akron: no college. The most educated guy convinced his dumber friends to come play on his team for less money.
I know a lot of you won’t click on Paul Sullivan links (and really, this is yet another ridiculous feud that ought to end)
Anytime Sullivan wants to stop being a total douchebag, and start actually doing his frakkin’ job, he’s welcome to.
Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.
He's writes words and his editors read them and let them get published and he get's paid for it....
he’s always done his job. Get over yourself.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Jul 12, 2010 11:11 AM CDT up reply actions
derp derp
Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.
by drewishdrewid on Jul 12, 2010 12:33 PM CDT up reply actions
interesting counter argument....full of insight as usual
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Jul 12, 2010 12:35 PM CDT up reply actions
I said my piece.
there’s no margin in arguing with you.
Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.
by drewishdrewid on Jul 12, 2010 12:53 PM CDT up reply actions
What a close-minded thing to say.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Jul 12, 2010 12:56 PM CDT up reply actions
I think you're confusing...
“doing you job” with going through the motions/receiving a paycheck. I think we can all agree that those aren’t the same thing.
Sullivan is simply not good at meeting the responsibilities that his job entails. And he’s petty and vindictive to boot. The only saving grace (if that’s the right term), is that loads of sports writers are the same way. They seem to be the least competent subgroup in a broader profession (media) that has a dearth of competence to begin with.
by CubsWin!Oregon on Jul 12, 2010 1:08 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Meh, it's simply a matter of subjective opinion and semantics...
his employer obviously doesn’t have enough of a problem with the job he’s doing. Some people hate him, others may enjoy him, and still others may not give a crap.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Jul 12, 2010 1:13 PM CDT up reply actions
How are we supposed to make fun of Paul Sullivan in our next FanPost if you keep defending him?
"The riches of the game are in the thrills, not the money." --Ernie Banks
I'm not defending him dillweed, I'm pointing out that Drew's opinion is subjectively false.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Jul 12, 2010 1:17 PM CDT up reply actions
I'm not suggesting that people aren't allowed to like him.
But I think his record suggests that Sullivan objectively fails to meet standards. I don’t believe it’s a mere matter of opinion or semantics.
It’s pretty evident that Sullivan’s reportage in the past has been influenced by his own personal opinions and agenda (based on how people treat him). I really don’t feel like scouring his archive to give examples, but they’re there if you look.
Also, the Chicago media isn’t exactly making a killing profit-wise, so I don’t think citing their satisfaction with his work is indicative of much.
by CubsWin!Oregon on Jul 12, 2010 1:29 PM CDT up reply actions
wha? Every single reporter is influenced by his own personal opinons...every single one.
Some are better at hiding it than others. Sullivan has been dumb enough to actually tip his had about it more than once and I find him to be pretty useless myself.
What does the media’s profit margin have to do with anything? Again, if Sullivan’s employer was really dissatisfied with his job performance….they would instruct him to improve to meet the “standards”. Sullivan getting to write bullshit on a regular basis is more of an indictment of the editorial staff @ the Trib than anything else. For example…
You can get mad at Ryan Theriot for his terrible OBP, but it’s Lou’s fault that he gets to show it off at the top of the lineup.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Jul 12, 2010 1:37 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
With regard to your first point...
I agree (and the argument gets to the heart of the debates on whether ‘objective’ media is even possible). But whether or not it is, not all instances of that are created equal. Robin Wright for example can’t be written off as the same as Mara Liasson (or whoever). I’m suggesting that Sullivan is more aggregious that others, is all.
I mentioned the profit margin to suggest that the newspapers aren’t good at evaluating what is desirable journalism anyway. So their retaining Sullivan isn’t indicative of him being a good journalist.
Fair enough with the Theriot comparison. Though that doesn’t mean I need to “get over” my dislike of Sullivan, as Al was suggesting just because the editors are morons too.
by CubsWin!Oregon on Jul 12, 2010 2:09 PM CDT up reply actions
I’m not calling for anyone to “get over” their dislike or opinion of Sullivan… ;)
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Jul 12, 2010 2:30 PM CDT up reply actions
This might be hard to get past the umpire union but if instant replay is implemented
Fire the ump with the most reversed calls at the end of the season.
lol....firing a union member...LOL
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Jul 12, 2010 11:26 AM CDT up reply actions
the actual process would be
the ump with the most blown calls gets promoted…
Sipping the Kool-Aid since 1982 - Kinda
Currently 34,839 on the Season Ticket Wait List - Expected age of being #0: 119
One piece Cubs need most
Trying to think and look ahead beyond this underachieving team. What one piece do the Cubs need most to get back to respectability in 2011?
I think there are 2. One is a gap-type hitter who can help them create runs in big ballparks and when the wind is blowing in. I’m tired of seeing us go down meekly when the wind blows in, negating the long ball. Ideally, this person would be a 2B or 1B, our most glaring openings. Not easy to identify who might be traded for or signed to fill this hole.
Secondly, a "stopper’’ type No. 1 pitcher, since Zambrano hasn’t been for 2+ year and is unlikely to return. I know they’re very hard to find and expensive, but we’ve gotta take a shot at Cliff Lee along with a dzoen or so other teams.
I think those are good ideas...
But the Cubs first need to re-evaluate their franchise-wide philosophy on evaluating needs. For example, it would be great if they would stop tilting at windmills with this fixation on finding hitters who “hit with men in scoring position.”
Once we figure out how to rationally evaluate needs/assets, then we can think about how to meet our needs. I’m hoping that that new hire in the stats-department with improve the baseball intelligence of the organization. Unfortunately, such a process will likely take some time to implement.
by CubsWin!Oregon on Jul 12, 2010 1:17 PM CDT up reply actions
In my opinion...
…I think the Cubs need a GM that isn’t so tilted towards pleasing individual players. You have to have balance, and a GM’s job is to put what is best for the ballclub above all else.
Also, Hendry has made a habit of making excuses for his players, which is not the road you want to go down. I don’t believe you ever mention injuries as a reason a season has not gone well, and in the past, both he and Piniella have used injuries as an excuse – bad message to send to your club.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
They need a legit leadoff hitter most of all
It all starts at the beginning. Ideally a 1B or 2B as those are the most obviously available spots.
Of course what they need even more than that is a new manager, but you all knew I would say that
"Lou Piniella's been a great manager for a long time and I stand by him completely"
by Doggie Stalker on Jul 12, 2010 3:38 PM CDT up reply actions
preferably 2B for a leadoff...
I don’t think we can afford to not find a power-threat/middle of the order for our 1B. Unless it’s a place-holder until we steal Pujols from StL. :)
by CubsWin!Oregon on Jul 12, 2010 5:07 PM CDT up reply actions
It's like the Monty Python Spanish Inquisition sketch
When anyone trys to look at this team and name one thing it need, they end up with 4. And that’s how a team gets to 39-50, lots of holes.
Right now, they need:
- A power hitting 1B
- A #1 quality starter
- A leadoff hitter
- A LF who doesn’t hop like a bunny
And the list goes on……..
I'm no Soriano apologist
But LF is not the issue this year.
by Shanghai Badger on Jul 12, 2010 5:57 PM CDT up reply actions
These additions would not make the Cubs a championship contender
at best it makes them a somewhat more respectable also ran.
I always turn to the sports section first. The sports page records people's accomplishments; the front page has nothing but man's failures.
~Earl Warren
by lookingdeadred on Jul 13, 2010 8:38 AM CDT up reply actions
My favorite
part of last night’s game was when the foul ball was hit down the line to right field, and Morgan said he knew it was foul because no chalk came up, and Miller said “they don’t use chalk anymore. classic.”
DEJESUS!!!
Also, I think that ball touched the line
But par for the course, the Cubs were never going to get that call.
If they'd do one of two things...
a) stop blowing calls
b) institute replay
or both, I’d stop.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

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