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MLB Trade Deadline Approaches; What Will The Cubs Do?

Derrek Lee: will he stay or will he go?

There is, of course, a difference between what they will do, what they should do, and what they can do at the MLB trading deadline, which this year will fall on a weekend, Saturday, July 31, only 16 days from now.

There have been posts here suggesting trading virtually every veteran player on this team; obviously, that's not realistic. Most teams who are sellers at the deadline are able to make one significant deal (and maybe a minor one as well); the same is usually true for teams who are buyers.

So while you (and Jim Hendry, if he's looking to cut payroll) would love to deal Derrek Lee, Xavier Nady, Ryan Theriot, Ted Lilly, Kosuke Fukudome and possibly Carlos Zambrano -- virtually all the team's large-money deals -- that's not realistic. Most likely, only one or two of those players won't be Cubs after July 31. This year, that window might even be stretched to August 31. It seems clear to me that when the Cubs, like all teams, put virtually their entire rosters on waivers after the non-waiver deadline passes, that essentially everyone who is waived will clear waivers and be available for trade through the month of August. Who's going to claim Fukudome's contract without giving something in return? Or Z's?

After the jump, a few thoughts on the players mentioned above, as well as a review of a new publication about the trade deadline.

Star-divide

Derrek Lee. Perhaps the most popular of current Cubs, he has been with the club longer than anyone except Carlos Zambrano and Aramis Ramirez. It seems clear that the Cubs are going to move on and find a new first baseman for 2011 and beyond; but who's going to trade for a soon-to-be 35-year-old first baseman having a bad year? D-Lee is hitting .233/.329/.366 and has 82 strikeouts (he's averaged about 110 per full season since he's been a Cub). The only team I could see possibly interested might be the Angels -- something Ken Rosenthal wrote about yesterday -- but I don't see this; the Angels seem to be getting along OK without Kendry Morales, and Rosenthal's reasoning: "First, he would probably be comfortable in Anaheim; he lives in California during the off-season" is specious -- Lee lives in Sacramento, not southern California. I think D-Lee finishes the year as a Cub.

Ted Lilly. Perhaps the most dealable of any of the current Cubs, given his free-agent status, his good first half (despite the pounding he took in his last start) and his lefthanded throwing arm. There are plenty of contending teams looking for starting pitching like this, including the Mets, Dodgers, White Sox and Twins, among others. I have gone on record as saying I'd like the Cubs to re-sign Ted and I'm sticking with that. They might be able to get some decent prospects, but I'd rather see them offer arbitration and take the draft pick if he declines; a two-year deal with a mutual option wouldn't be a bad idea. I'll rate it about 50/50 that Ted finishes the year as a Cub.

Kosuke Fukudome. Fukudome's $14 million payment for 2011 (and the approximately $6 million left for this year) likely makes him undealable. The Cubs have reportedly already had talks with the Red Sox about Dome, but could not reach a deal. The only way Fukudome gets dealt right now is if some team suffers an outfielder injury in the next couple of weeks and gets desperate. A more likely way for the Cubs to get out of the 2011 deal is to quietly find a way to get him back to Japan and make the same kind of money. The Mariners' Kenji Johjima did this a couple of years ago -- don't know if he did it on his own or had help from the Mariners -- and walked away from 16 million Seattle dollars to take a $21 million contract in Japan. If that doesn't happen, Fukudome's likely a Cub again next year.

Xavier Nady. Nady has reportedly attracted attention from the Texas Rangers. If such a deal can be made, do it now, Jim Hendry. Nady's value to the Cubs is little and he surely won't be back in 2011. A minor prospect would get this deal done for me. Nady could be the right-handed half of a first-base platoon in Texas; they don't need him to DH, where Vladimir Guerrero has done a very good job.

Ryan Theriot. The Cubs were reportedly upset that not only did Theriot file for an amount much higher than they were willing to give in arbitration, but that he wouldn't settle before a hearing, the first for a Cub since Mark Grace in 1993. Theriot should have settled, because he got the lower amount. He's popular among a certain segment of Cubs fans due to what we all term "scrappiness" and I don't have to tell you his flaws. Unfortunately, other teams know those flaws, too. If there's any way to deal him and the rest of his contract, the Cubs should do so. Mike Fontenot and Jeff Baker could platoon at 2B the rest of the year and the Cubs have several choices at Iowa (Darwin Barney likely the best) for backup. While I think the Cubs should deal Theriot, the chances of this happening are probably pretty small. More likely, he'll simply be non-tendered after the season is over.

Carlos Zambrano. The proverbial elephant in the room, we don't even know if Z has finished his anger management course (it appears the answer is "not yet"). When he does, he'll have to get back into playing shape, which means he likely won't be playing when the deadline rolls around 16 days from now. It's very possible Z has made his last pitch for the Cubs, although it will take quite a bit of work from Hendry to make the (approximately) $45 million remaining on his contract disappear. I've suggested sending him to the Mets (whose GM, Omar Minaya, would probably love to have Z) for Oliver Perez, a swap of bad contracts. Even then, there's about $25 million worth of difference between the two deals. Or maybe Ozzie Guillen can talk Kenny Williams into taking the contract -- the Sox, with Jake Peavy out for the year, are looking for a starter. I don't think Z can return to the Cubs after what happened, no matter how many players have said they'd accept his apology. But it will take some serious work to get him traded, too.

Maybe Hendry will surprise us by trading someone else -- the Red Sox inquired about Mike Fontenot, for example -- but these six seem the likeliest to be dealt.

For more analysis of these and other teams' wants and needs, you can check out the View From The Bleachers 2010 Trade Deadline Primer. Joe Aiello from VFTB sent me a copy for review -- at first I expected something just about the Cubs (and it has that, with detailed analysis and grades for all Cubs players), but this 160-page book is a complete review of every team as we approach the deadline. It's well-researched and organized and has contributions from bloggers from every major league team (including SB Nation's Kyle Lobner from Brew Crew Ball and David Coleman from Crawfish Boxes). There's some trade deadline history as well. It costs $9.95 and is available for download from the link above.

The trading began earlier this month with the shipment of Cliff Lee to the Rangers and continued yesterday with the Braves/Blue Jays shortstop swap. This is shaping up to be a busy year, with many clubs like the Cubs wanting to shed contracts.

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I think at most Nady and Lilly go

I feel that we could gain a great prospect for Lilly, especially if we ship him off to the Mets. Nady will just be a salary dump.

In honestly don’t see us ever trading Fukudome. He is due more money than I feel any team would want to take him on for.

Viva la Cubs Révolution!!!

by Chanman25 on Jul 15, 2010 8:36 AM CDT reply actions  

It'll be interesting, that's for sure

But you’re right, Al, I think no one knows what they will do. The guys you laid out are all prime candidates.

What does the free agent class look like for next year? Not that I think the Cubs are going to dive head first into that pool over the fall/winter, but if they’re able to shed some salary now, maybe they can grab a couple younger free agents next year – and avoid albatross-like deals and more sensible ones…i.e. Byrd’s 3-year, $15mil.

"What the hell, let's review it." - Dale Tallon
"They are!" - Pat Foley
"What a farce." - Dale Tallon

by HawkVision on Jul 15, 2010 8:39 AM CDT reply actions  

You're right.

Forgot about him. But those are the only two.

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al Yellon on Jul 15, 2010 8:52 AM CDT up reply actions  

You don't seem to be too attached to D-Lee, Al.

I’m curious — why the love for Lilly but not for Derrek?

by elgato on Jul 15, 2010 8:54 AM CDT up reply actions  

Because...

… although they are nearly the same age, the likelihood of a 35-year-old lefthanded pitcher having two more good years is much higher than the same chance for a 35-year-old first baseman who appears to be in decline.

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al Yellon on Jul 15, 2010 8:55 AM CDT up reply actions  

OK.

But from an organizational standpoint, the Cubs have better options already under contract to sign Lilly, whereas the best option at first next year (at the moment) is Tyler Colvin.

Understand that I’m not arguing to keep Lee. I just don’t think keeping Lilly should be a priority.

by elgato on Jul 15, 2010 9:00 AM CDT up reply actions  

Bad grammar.

My point was that the Cubs have five options for the rotation next year that make more sense than re-signing Lilly.

by elgato on Jul 15, 2010 9:08 AM CDT up reply actions  

someday I'm going to understand why so many people think Colvin is an option at first

He’s young, he’s a pretty good outfielder, and he’s player first like 3 times in his career.

by HuskerCorner on Jul 15, 2010 9:09 AM CDT up reply actions  

He did play 1B in college.

But I agree with you. He’s a good defensive OF and young. Why waste that at 1B?

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al Yellon on Jul 15, 2010 9:09 AM CDT up reply actions  

Because the idea is to get your best players on the field

If you have a surplus of OFs, moving one to 1B who has played 1B in his college days, would be a smart way to get them all in the lineup at the same time.

I always turn to the sports section first. The sports page records people's accomplishments; the front page has nothing but man's failures.
~Earl Warren

by lookingdeadred on Jul 15, 2010 10:41 AM CDT up reply actions  

especially ...

when you have an opening at first. The cries to put Colvin at first NOW are kinda dumb. But it’s an option worth considering — especially if the Cubs are stuck with Kosuke for another season.

by elgato on Jul 15, 2010 10:43 AM CDT up reply actions  

The Cubs will likely have to look outside the organization for a 1B.

There are decent options beyond free agency — I have suggested trading for Kila Ka’aihue, for example.

I’d rather see Colvin in the OF than 1B — that would likely require moving Fukudome, which may be difficult.

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al Yellon on Jul 15, 2010 9:09 AM CDT up reply actions  

I agree with both of you.

I was making a point about what the Cubs have in the organization.

by elgato on Jul 15, 2010 9:10 AM CDT up reply actions  

2011 1B Free Agents

Left handed pitching is a lot tougher to find than 1B.

from mlbtraderumor.com

First basemen
Garrett Atkins (31) – $8.5MM club option with a $500K buyout
Lance Berkman (35) – $15MM club option with a $2MM buyout
Wilson Betemit (29)
Hank Blalock (30)
Russell Branyan (35) – $5MM mutual option
Jorge Cantu (29)
Frank Catalanotto (37)
Adam Dunn (31)
Troy Glaus (34)
Wes Helms (35)
Eric Hinske (33)
Aubrey Huff (34)
Mike Jacobs (30)
Nick Johnson (32) – $5.5MM mutual option with a $250K buyout
Paul Konerko (35)
Adam LaRoche (31) – $7.5MM mutual option with a $1.5MM buyout
Derrek Lee (35)
Doug Mientkiewicz (37)
Kevin Millar (39)
Lyle Overbay (34)
Carlos Pena (33)
Albert Pujols (31) – $16MM club option with a $5MM buyout
Fernando Tatis (36)
Chad Tracy (31)
Ty Wigginton (33)

"They come to see me strike out, hit a home run, or run into a fence. I try to accommodate them at least one way every game." - Gorman Thomas

by RiskyBusiness on Jul 15, 2010 9:19 AM CDT up reply actions  

Lots of options...

but who on that list would you really want to sign (except Pujols of course, and we know that won’t happen)? Just about everybody on that list is past his prime and/or not that good. I suppose Cantu might be the only option I’d consider signing to a multi-year deal to play 1B.

Harry Caray: Marshall is going back to LA to get cocaine for his injured foot.
Steve Stone: Harry, that’s Novocaine.

by Julio Zuleta's Voodoo on Jul 15, 2010 9:23 AM CDT up reply actions  

What about Adam Dunn?

I wouldn’t give him a five-year deal, but I’d consider two or three.

by elgato on Jul 15, 2010 9:28 AM CDT up reply actions  

Yeah I guess maybe Dunn

Was thinking of him as more of an outfielder but I guess he is at 1B with Washington now, isn’t he?

Harry Caray: Marshall is going back to LA to get cocaine for his injured foot.
Steve Stone: Harry, that’s Novocaine.

by Julio Zuleta's Voodoo on Jul 15, 2010 9:30 AM CDT up reply actions  

He's certainly not Derrek Lee with the glove.

But Dunn would be an interesting guy to put around Aramis, Colvin, Byrd and Soriano next year.

by elgato on Jul 15, 2010 9:31 AM CDT up reply actions  

Or would the Cubs think about Ramirez at 1B?

I could see shifting Ramirez to 1B to lower the risk to his shoulder that he has twice dislocated.

"They come to see me strike out, hit a home run, or run into a fence. I try to accommodate them at least one way every game." - Gorman Thomas

by RiskyBusiness on Jul 15, 2010 9:37 AM CDT up reply actions  

Possible, I guess.

Is there a good option at third within the system for next year? Is Vitters close to ready?

by elgato on Jul 15, 2010 9:37 AM CDT up reply actions  

He doesn't look close

2010 age 20 Daytona FLOR .291 /.350/.445/
2010 age 20 Tennessee SOUL .203/.266/.328/

"They come to see me strike out, hit a home run, or run into a fence. I try to accommodate them at least one way every game." - Gorman Thomas

by RiskyBusiness on Jul 15, 2010 9:46 AM CDT up reply actions  

It' spossible

but I think the Cubs should be looking to get rid of this group of players. Ramirez has his problems with injury and that will most likely only get worse. 1b might be a bit better for that, but I don’t think the Cubs should take that risk. Cut bait. Move to targets that don’t have such a risk.

by jerry morales rules on Jul 15, 2010 9:58 AM CDT up reply actions  

Easier said than done

Ramirez has a player option for 2011. His stats this year and current economy would suggest that he takes that option vs. testing the free agent market.

"They come to see me strike out, hit a home run, or run into a fence. I try to accommodate them at least one way every game." - Gorman Thomas

by RiskyBusiness on Jul 15, 2010 10:05 AM CDT up reply actions  

Oh I think he's a Cub for 2011

I was referring to after that.

I’m not sure that I’d be so hot to change a players position for only one year. I doubt that Ramirez would be all that happy about it too considering the 1bmen that might be availible in 2012.

by jerry morales rules on Jul 15, 2010 10:10 AM CDT up reply actions  

And DLee is not Adam Dunn with the bat

I always turn to the sports section first. The sports page records people's accomplishments; the front page has nothing but man's failures.
~Earl Warren

by lookingdeadred on Jul 15, 2010 10:43 AM CDT up reply actions  

He's also not DLee with the age.

Dunn is four years younger. I would love to see Dunn at first for the Cubs next year.

by elgato on Jul 15, 2010 10:44 AM CDT up reply actions  

Just don't expect stellar defense.

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al Yellon on Jul 15, 2010 12:37 PM CDT up reply actions  

what about year 3-5 of that contact?

"Actually, Major League Baseball is more like Neverland

And the Lost Boys don’t have to ever grow up. Some do, anyway, but that is not a universal characteristic"

by Madison Cub Fan on Jul 15, 2010 12:39 PM CDT up reply actions  

what about Nady at 1B?

As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.

by santoswoodenlegs on Jul 15, 2010 12:42 PM CDT up reply actions  

Ugh.

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al Yellon on Jul 15, 2010 12:44 PM CDT up reply actions  

that's what I thought

As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.

by santoswoodenlegs on Jul 15, 2010 12:46 PM CDT up reply actions  

And baseballs flying into the first base dugout.

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al Yellon on Jul 15, 2010 12:41 PM CDT up reply actions  

What the HELL, Al.

You wanted Dunn to play right at Wrigley to seasons ago. Now you’re worried about his defense at first?

by elgato on Jul 15, 2010 1:26 PM CDT up reply actions  

No kidding

His defense at first base isn’t that bad. The only thing more overrated than Ted Lilly right now might be DLee’s first base defense.

by JSB on Jul 15, 2010 1:32 PM CDT up reply actions  

Hey, gimme a minute, OK?

Yes, Dunn could have been a better choice in RF for one year.

Now I wonder about his defense at 1B, yes. It wouldn’t be as bad as having Soriano there. I suppose we could live with it for the bat.

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al Yellon on Jul 15, 2010 2:38 PM CDT up reply actions  

for one year?

What would the Cubs have done with him after 2009? Lee was still at first, Soriano was in left … ?

by elgato on Jul 15, 2010 2:46 PM CDT up reply actions  

or to take a different view of it

Theriot not @ 2nd base, & Castro having 3/4 of a season under his belt @ SS. Cubs may not need some
one 6 ft5 digging out balls as much as they do now.

"Actually, Major League Baseball is more like Neverland

And the Lost Boys don’t have to ever grow up. Some do, anyway, but that is not a universal characteristic"

by Madison Cub Fan on Jul 15, 2010 2:22 PM CDT up reply actions  

That's an understatement

Al, I am a Nats season ticket holder. Dunn is a butcher at first. Aweful footwork and terrible hands. He has cost them at least three games I can think of. Streaky hitter but man, can he turn on a fasball. Nats park is a pretty neutral park. He hits very high balls, not a line drive hitter. He is also not the kind of guy you want to give more than a couple of years too. Not a hard worker, physically.

You can get more with a kind word and a gun than you can with a kind word alone. - Al Capone

by RTGrules on Jul 15, 2010 2:51 PM CDT up reply actions  

I agree

Steep drop off after Pujols and Dunn. I started looking up Cantu as you posted.

Speaking sarcastically, is there a way that Millar can play 1B part time and work the TV or radio booth too?

"They come to see me strike out, hit a home run, or run into a fence. I try to accommodate them at least one way every game." - Gorman Thomas

by RiskyBusiness on Jul 15, 2010 9:31 AM CDT up reply actions  

Sarcasm continued.

That would be funny — he works the first seven innings in the booth, then comes into the clubhouse, gets dressed and gets a game-winning hit as a PH.

Does he interview himself after?

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al Yellon on Jul 15, 2010 10:18 AM CDT up reply actions  

He could pull that off

I think he could actually interview himself. It might be better than some interviews you see today.

"They come to see me strike out, hit a home run, or run into a fence. I try to accommodate them at least one way every game." - Gorman Thomas

by RiskyBusiness on Jul 15, 2010 11:26 AM CDT up reply actions  

I realize this is just fantasy

But as crappy as this season is going, I can dream unrealistic things.

2012 Ricketts make a splash with offering mega bucks to Pujols.

"Actually, Major League Baseball is more like Neverland

And the Lost Boys don’t have to ever grow up. Some do, anyway, but that is not a universal characteristic"

by Madison Cub Fan on Jul 15, 2010 12:17 PM CDT up reply actions  

Won't happen.

I think I’m going to start a sign Adam Dunn (to a reasonable deal) bandwagon. Who’s with me?

by elgato on Jul 15, 2010 12:18 PM CDT up reply actions  

I did say it was a fantasy :)

b/c seriously I don’t anyone right now I’d want locked up after the season in a multi-season deal.

"Actually, Major League Baseball is more like Neverland

And the Lost Boys don’t have to ever grow up. Some do, anyway, but that is not a universal characteristic"

by Madison Cub Fan on Jul 15, 2010 12:25 PM CDT up reply actions  

if they do that...

they won’t be able to afford any $10 bleacher seat promotions next year, and they’ll need moar signs behind the bleachers.

As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.

by santoswoodenlegs on Jul 15, 2010 12:27 PM CDT up reply actions  

Bloated pay roll either way

It’s just sick to look @ what is next years pay roll already.

Where does it end?

"Actually, Major League Baseball is more like Neverland

And the Lost Boys don’t have to ever grow up. Some do, anyway, but that is not a universal characteristic"

by Madison Cub Fan on Jul 15, 2010 12:34 PM CDT up reply actions  

2013

As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.

by santoswoodenlegs on Jul 15, 2010 12:37 PM CDT up reply actions  

Gets a lot better in 2012

But takes until 2015 for the last albatross to be shed.

by ClarkFan on Jul 15, 2010 4:45 PM CDT up reply actions  

I'm in...I thought he should already have been here.

Ron Santo - 8,143 ABs, .277 BA; 342 HR; 1331 RBI = NO Hall of Fame?

Brooks Robinson - 10,654 ABs, .267 BA; 268 HR; 1357 RBI = Hall of Fame.

Any more questions ?

by Easy Ed on Jul 15, 2010 2:42 PM CDT up reply actions  

Wouldn't want to be fishing in that pond....

Makes pursuing a propect or having Colvin fill the position for the year seem much more attractive. The 2011 offseason options are much more attractive.

by ClarkFan on Jul 15, 2010 7:49 PM CDT up reply actions  

I dont like to interrupt you guys mid discussion but

Colvin is no Soriano(bad) in the OF, but IMHO he’s not as good as Byrd has been this year yet either. I know there was a post earlier on Colvin at 1B, but I still think it may be a good idea…we have plenty of OFers and 1B seems to be a huge problem.

"Well-behaved women seldom make History"---Laurel Thatcher Ulrich

by cooliogirl47 on Jul 15, 2010 10:43 AM CDT up reply actions  

I nominate myself as President of the KeepTed Lilly Rooters Club.

If only because he’s Ted Lilly.

"Fasten those seatbelts!"-Pat Hughes

by katie casey on Jul 15, 2010 8:46 AM CDT reply actions  

Sign me on.

It’s a drag that one of the best guys on the team, in many ways, probably has the highest trade value and would be easiest to move and because of impending free-agent status in some eyes needs to be moved. So what? I say. Don’t you want good players and good teammates on your team? Don’t you try to build teams with guys like that?

One of Lee Elia's 15%

by waiting4cubs on Jul 15, 2010 8:50 AM CDT up reply actions  

hehehe

"Fasten those seatbelts!"-Pat Hughes

by katie casey on Jul 15, 2010 9:25 AM CDT up reply actions  

Totally OT

Katie

We found an interesting piece of art yesterday on main floor of one of the buildings where the boyfriend works. He’s been past it many many times. Just thought you’d be interested in knowing that :)

"Actually, Major League Baseball is more like Neverland

And the Lost Boys don’t have to ever grow up. Some do, anyway, but that is not a universal characteristic"

by Madison Cub Fan on Jul 15, 2010 11:47 AM CDT up reply actions  

Yes. :) Small world, isn't it?

The husband said you stopped by earlier while I was at lunch. I appreciate you taking the time to come back and visit me. It was nice meeting you both! After you left I was like dang-I should have showed you “Righty” and “Lefty.” Bet you can guess where I got the inspiration for those titles.

"Fasten those seatbelts!"-Pat Hughes

by katie casey on Jul 15, 2010 12:15 PM CDT up reply actions  

Watch your back for the DeRomantics

I always turn to the sports section first. The sports page records people's accomplishments; the front page has nothing but man's failures.
~Earl Warren

by lookingdeadred on Jul 15, 2010 10:44 AM CDT up reply actions  

I love DeRo.

But whining about not having him after two years? Good lord.

by elgato on Jul 15, 2010 10:45 AM CDT up reply actions  

I'm a DeRomantic (have a Cubs T-shirt to prove it)

but now its only cuz I think he’s one of the cutest Cubs players. I’m tired of keeping players for sentimental reasons…other than the Hawk, would any of them stay with the Cubs with a contract that was not to their liking? Out with the old in with the new and improved!

"Well-behaved women seldom make History"---Laurel Thatcher Ulrich

by cooliogirl47 on Jul 15, 2010 10:54 AM CDT up reply actions  

Which is why re-siging Ted Lilly is a mistake.

I could live with a 1-year deal through arbitration, but anything more than that will be another contract we end up regretting.

by elgato on Jul 15, 2010 10:57 AM CDT up reply actions  

One year and a team option, maybe?

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al Yellon on Jul 15, 2010 12:37 PM CDT up reply actions  

Maybe.

Depends on the money.

by elgato on Jul 15, 2010 1:22 PM CDT up reply actions  

NO

Waste of money. The Cubs aren’t likely to be good next year and they need to find out if Cashner/Jackson/Wells/Gorzelanny are keepers (maybe even add in Thomas Diamond to that mix).

by JSB on Jul 15, 2010 1:24 PM CDT up reply actions  

If re-signing Lilly prevents signing someone like Adam Dunn ...

or any big bat at first, then I might stop watching for a year.

by elgato on Jul 15, 2010 1:25 PM CDT up reply actions  

Adam Dunn

I wouldn’t be in love w/ signing Dunn, but I certainly support that over a Ted Lilly signing. My concern with Dunn is that I think someone will give him 4-5 years and I am concerned that by the time our young players (Cashner, Colvin, Jackson, Castro, Jackson) are reaching their prime, we will once again have an aging first basemen. My preference would be to get a place-holder for a couple years, but at the right price/number of years I would like a Dunn signing.

by JSB on Jul 15, 2010 1:27 PM CDT up reply actions  

I wouldn't give him anything more than three.

So I kinda agree with you. But remember, Dunn’s on a 2-year deal now, so I don’t think 3 years is impossible.

by elgato on Jul 15, 2010 1:35 PM CDT up reply actions  

We shall see

The market in 2009 was like nothing we have ever seen (unless you were Jim Hendry). I bet he gets at least 4 years.

by JSB on Jul 15, 2010 1:41 PM CDT up reply actions  

That's the difficulty in discussing moves

Without knowing the terms of the trade/contract offer it is difficult to say this player should be signed/traded. Hell, there are even terms under which Castro should be dealt. There are terms under which Dunn is a good signing and terms under which he is a bad signing.

by JSB on Jul 15, 2010 1:59 PM CDT up reply actions  

thats my point

Given Jim’s track record, I don’t see Dunn signing for a 2 years. I see at least a 3 maybe 4/5 year deal. He does like to bid against himself

"Actually, Major League Baseball is more like Neverland

And the Lost Boys don’t have to ever grow up. Some do, anyway, but that is not a universal characteristic"

by Madison Cub Fan on Jul 15, 2010 2:04 PM CDT up reply actions  

I'd be OK with three.

And Hendry no longer has unlimited Trib resources.

by elgato on Jul 15, 2010 2:06 PM CDT up reply actions  

I'd hope

but does anyone have an idea of what Ricketts plans to do?

"Actually, Major League Baseball is more like Neverland

And the Lost Boys don’t have to ever grow up. Some do, anyway, but that is not a universal characteristic"

by Madison Cub Fan on Jul 15, 2010 2:13 PM CDT up reply actions  

Pay back loans

That will put a brake on Hendry…

by ClarkFan on Jul 15, 2010 4:48 PM CDT up reply actions  

The Nats may still sign him

They have nothing at first base without him. They have been careful not to give many long-term contracts but if he does 3 years I bet the resign him. They need someone to protect Zimmerman and it ain’t Wilingham.

You can get more with a kind word and a gun than you can with a kind word alone. - Al Capone

by RTGrules on Jul 15, 2010 2:57 PM CDT up reply actions  

One year and a team option, maybe?

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al Yellon on Jul 15, 2010 12:37 PM CDT up reply actions  

I don't think your club will be around for very long, unless it's willing to change cities.

My guess is Lilly and Nady are both dealt in the next couple weeks, and maybe someone who surprises us.

by elgato on Jul 15, 2010 8:51 AM CDT up reply actions  

You may be right, and as much as I ♥ him I'm not changing cities.

So sadly it may have to go the way of my Keep Reed Johnson Club,

"Fasten those seatbelts!"-Pat Hughes

by katie casey on Jul 15, 2010 9:01 AM CDT up reply actions  

I back you on Reed Johnson

A very athletic OF with decent pop in the bat, and a great attitude in the clubhouse. Defending him last Sunday, I took some heavy shelling from Cub fans during the live game posts.

by HotDogDude on Jul 15, 2010 9:29 AM CDT via mobile up reply actions  

You took shelling because you said the Cubs traded him.

And do you really think the Cubs need more outfielders right now?

by elgato on Jul 15, 2010 9:30 AM CDT up reply actions  

they can still trade Lilly now, and then resign him over the winter if they so choose

they should trade Lilly now if they can receive something more valuable than a draft pick, which I think that they can. Personally, I don’t see the Ricketts’s spending much money this winter, and I envision cheap replacements for Lilly and Lee.

by holy mackeral on Jul 15, 2010 8:52 AM CDT up reply actions  

And the cheap replacements probably make sense.

Lilly is 35, he’s coming off shoulder surgery and his velocity is down. I would be OK with a 1-year deal through arbitration if the return at the trade deadline isn’t good. But signing Ted to a 2-year deal (he’ll be 37 in 2012) is a bad move.

by elgato on Jul 15, 2010 8:53 AM CDT up reply actions  

Velocity is down?

Really? It’s not like Lilly ever threw really hard.

Also, Lilly will be 35 in January. I still wouldn’t be opposed to a two-year deal.

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al Yellon on Jul 15, 2010 8:54 AM CDT up reply actions  

It is down. I read that somewhere the other day ...

I would be OK with a 2-year deal in a vacuum, but I’m totally against it given the fact that a) the Cubs have five decent options for the rotation next year b) they will have limited payroll to find a replacement for Lee and c) the team’s chance at contending in 2011 aren’t great.

I think this team could sneak into next year’s playoff mix with about 85 wins. But, to do that, the Cubs need to use their limited funds to find a new first baseman more than they need to spend money to re-sign Ted.

by elgato on Jul 15, 2010 8:59 AM CDT up reply actions  

I recall

hearing this at the beginning of the season. But his FB actually has improved:

By Month:

April: 85.1 MPH
May: 85.2 MPH
June: 86.5 MPH

From Fangraphs : Link

"Ask Dad. He'll know. And on the off chance he doesn't, he'll make something up"

by StevenABQ on Jul 15, 2010 9:06 AM CDT up reply actions  

Oh, interesting.

Thanks for this.

My point still stands, but it’s good to see that Lilly’s velocity is OK IF he’s back on a 1-year deal.

by elgato on Jul 15, 2010 9:09 AM CDT up reply actions  

How does that velocity compare to previous years?

It’s not like he was ever a power pitcher.

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al Yellon on Jul 15, 2010 9:10 AM CDT up reply actions  

Lilly has two major flaws this year.

He’s terrible with men on base. His sOPS+ is 160 versus 63 with no one on. He’s also turned into a 90 max pitcher. From the 7th inning on, opposing batters are hitting .347 against him and his sOPS+ is 200. He’s a clear risk in the future and, as much as everyone loves him, we’d be better to move on without him.

If a quality pitching start is 3 runs and 6 innings, then a quality hitting day is 1 for 4.

by tharr on Jul 15, 2010 1:53 PM CDT up reply actions  

they can still trade Lilly now, and then resign him over the winter if they so choose

Risky. He might go to a contender, like it there, they like him and sign him to an extension.

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al Yellon on Jul 15, 2010 8:53 AM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

I think

that Lily possibly sticking with another team is a risk well worth taking. Lily is a solid pitcher, but he’s barely throwing hard enough to be effective. At some point his velocity is going to drop below a threshold where he can be effective. I’d rather someone else was paying him 10 mil plus a season when that happens.

DEJESUS!!!

by tomas21 on Jul 15, 2010 10:40 AM CDT up reply actions  

remember

Steinbrenner sucked it up for many many years as an owner of the Yankees…Ricketts isnt a miracle worker people.

Sipping the Kool-Aid since 1982 - Kinda
Currently 34,839 on the Season Ticket Wait List - Expected age of being #0: 119

by hansman1982 on Jul 15, 2010 5:05 PM CDT up reply actions  

I heart Ted Lilly a lot

If he does get traded, it better be for someone useful. B/c I’d rather have Ted Lilly than someone who is another teams cast off that the Cubs think “may” help someday.

"Actually, Major League Baseball is more like Neverland

And the Lost Boys don’t have to ever grow up. Some do, anyway, but that is not a universal characteristic"

by Madison Cub Fan on Jul 15, 2010 12:12 PM CDT up reply actions  

just as long as they're "left handed" and "fast"....

cuz thass wut we be needin’

As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.

by santoswoodenlegs on Jul 15, 2010 12:13 PM CDT up reply actions  

exactly what I'm afraid of

"Actually, Major League Baseball is more like Neverland

And the Lost Boys don’t have to ever grow up. Some do, anyway, but that is not a universal characteristic"

by Madison Cub Fan on Jul 15, 2010 12:28 PM CDT up reply actions  

I'd say that it's possible someone could claim Dome on waivers.

He only has one year left… and a contending AL team with a big wallet, like the BoSox, may need OF help and way the risk..

Nady or DLee could end up an Angel…. who need 1B help, but just for the remainder of the year, until Morales returns from injury. So hat would be a good fit for the Angels.

Lilly will likely have a few bidders… solid lefties are a commodity.

Would love to deal Theriot, but not sure there’s enough interest out there. There was speculation of interest from the Giants. The Phillies got banged up in the infield…. I thought they might have interest.

"You win because of the quarterback. We have to get that position stabilized. We're fixated on that." -- Jerry Angelo (12.30.2008)

Jerry Angelo trades for Jay Cutler! (4.2.2009)

by SackMan on Jul 15, 2010 8:54 AM CDT reply actions  

There would be cheaper options available than Dome

The Red Sox have apparently already rejected the Cubs because of his salary. I have heard rumors of DeJesus to Boston. That seems more like a Red Sox deal than Dome.

by rlpete on Jul 15, 2010 9:29 AM CDT up reply actions  

If a team claims Fukudome, it would be pahr-tay time!

At this point, it looks like Fuld would be an upgrade and the 2011 budget frees up a little.

by ClarkFan on Jul 15, 2010 7:57 PM CDT up reply actions  

I'm not convinced Lee, Lilly, and Fukudome...

…would accept a trade. Remember, they all have NTC’s, which will make moving them that much harder.

"Pounding sand since 1982...."

by cubswynn on Jul 15, 2010 8:55 AM CDT reply actions  

Lee is a 10-and-5 player and can reject any trade.

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al Yellon on Jul 15, 2010 9:10 AM CDT up reply actions  

why would D-Lee reject a trade?

he knows he is leaving after the season anyway, so why not move it up a month or two, and play on a contender? If he actually gets hot and helps a team win, his stock would go up considerably going into free agency. That beats winding down the schedule with his Cub teammates, and then saying farewell in October.

by holy mackeral on Jul 15, 2010 11:39 AM CDT up reply actions  

He might not want to move his family twice in six months.

And that could happen if he’s traded to, say, the Angels and then ends up signing with another team for 2011.

Your logic about his value is dead on, of course. But he might not want to uproot his family.

by elgato on Jul 15, 2010 11:41 AM CDT up reply actions  

if Lee is traded in late August, the family doesnt have to move

he just spends all of September in a hotel, as opposed to spending half of September in a hotel. that is a small price to pay to get out of this mess.

by holy mackeral on Jul 15, 2010 11:55 AM CDT up reply actions  

I see your point.

But late August IS six weeks away.

by elgato on Jul 15, 2010 11:57 AM CDT up reply actions  

I dunno...

…Lilly and Lee’s no-trades are probably justified. Fukudome’s, not so much. Hindsight is 20/20.

"Pounding sand since 1982...."

by cubswynn on Jul 15, 2010 10:43 AM CDT up reply actions  

I also think they should consider trading Byrd while he's at peak value.

Dealing Byrd now, could net a very nice prospect who turns out to be one of those “deadline deal” steals that people talk about years down the road.

"You win because of the quarterback. We have to get that position stabilized. We're fixated on that." -- Jerry Angelo (12.30.2008)

Jerry Angelo trades for Jay Cutler! (4.2.2009)

by SackMan on Jul 15, 2010 8:57 AM CDT reply actions  

The "peak value" thing doesn't necessarily apply in Byrd's case...

… because he is also considered to be a good clubhouse guy, which DOES have value and which the Cubs need.

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al Yellon on Jul 15, 2010 9:10 AM CDT up reply actions  

Exactly.

"Pounding sand since 1982...."

by cubswynn on Jul 15, 2010 9:12 AM CDT up reply actions  

no-win situation

byrd had a solid first half and would be tough to move, but he could also quickly become a roadblock to brett jackson. it’s a tough call.

by circuitclout on Jul 15, 2010 9:28 AM CDT up reply actions  

trade him in the offseason or next year then.

The way his contract is structured, he’ll be less of a bargain after this year.

by elgato on Jul 15, 2010 9:29 AM CDT up reply actions  

Byrd's contract is back loaded, in true Hendry fashion

$3.0 M in 2010, 5.5M in 2011, and 6.5M in 2012. I’m not saying trade him, but they should listen to offers, and hope somebody overpays for him. Then put Colvin in center, and spend that $11 million on one of the many other needs.

by holy mackeral on Jul 15, 2010 11:43 AM CDT up reply actions  

I know it's backloaded.

Hence the statement “he’ll be less of a bargain after this year.”

What team do you think is in a position to trade (and overpay) for Byrd? I’m OK with listening to offers, but I don’t see a contender that’s desperate for someone like Byrd.

by elgato on Jul 15, 2010 11:46 AM CDT up reply actions  

contenders aren't usually desperate for anything....

that’s why they’re contenders.

As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.

by santoswoodenlegs on Jul 15, 2010 11:47 AM CDT up reply actions  

(rolls eyes)

OK, how about “extremely eager” for someone like Byrd? I can’t think of a team that is in contention that is even in that position.

by elgato on Jul 15, 2010 11:51 AM CDT up reply actions  

The only thing we have that any team is going to even my mildly interested in...

is starting pitching or Bob Howry.

As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.

by santoswoodenlegs on Jul 15, 2010 11:52 AM CDT up reply actions  

Howry?

I think teams would be more than mildly interested in Derrek Lee at the right price. And the Rangers are more than mildly interested in Nady, if Bruce Levine is to be believed.

by elgato on Jul 15, 2010 11:54 AM CDT up reply actions  

The Rangers are idiots then.

IDIOTS.

As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.

by santoswoodenlegs on Jul 15, 2010 11:55 AM CDT up reply actions  

OK, so what are we going to get in return for Nady? I'll tell you...

dangerously close to nothing, which is fine by me because he’s not worth anything anyway. It’ll free up a roster spot…for who knows, but that’s really all trading him will do.

I’m more concerned with getting things of value back than simply offloading the cheap useless parts on the roster.

As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.

by santoswoodenlegs on Jul 15, 2010 12:00 PM CDT up reply actions  

Seems to me ...

we should be concerned with getting things of value AND freeing up money and roster space.

Trading Nady will at minimum do the latter. I agree that dealing him probably won’t do much for the former.

by elgato on Jul 15, 2010 12:02 PM CDT up reply actions  

The bottom line is...

the only things we have that can bring value are starting pitching and possibly Lee and Howry. Yes Bob Howry.

As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.

by santoswoodenlegs on Jul 15, 2010 12:05 PM CDT up reply actions  

I don't think that's the bottom line.

But I agree with your assessment otherwise.

by elgato on Jul 15, 2010 12:07 PM CDT up reply actions  

who else do you see bringing back something via trade?

Theriot? Fontenot? Baker? Fukudome?

As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.

by santoswoodenlegs on Jul 15, 2010 12:09 PM CDT up reply actions  

No, no, no ...

I’m saying that bringing back something of value isn’t the only thing the Cubs should be concerned about. I don’t think it’s the bottom line.

by elgato on Jul 15, 2010 12:12 PM CDT up reply actions  

what is? payroll relief?

As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.

by santoswoodenlegs on Jul 15, 2010 12:16 PM CDT up reply actions  

Payroll relief, getting talent, clearing spots so the kids can play ...

they’re all part of the bottom line. But I think we’re arguing semantics at this point.

by elgato on Jul 15, 2010 12:17 PM CDT up reply actions  

and you know me...

I’m always up for semantics.

As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.

by santoswoodenlegs on Jul 15, 2010 12:18 PM CDT up reply actions  

But nothing = Nady's net value to the Cubs right now

So if the Cubs get a water cooler and the other team takes his salary, the Cubs are way ahead. Nady is done at the end of 2010 and the Cubs won’t get draft picks for him. Fuld can fill in at least as well in the outfield and there are a couple of options to back up at 1B. So, if any reasonable offer comes in, it should be ta-ta Mr. X.

by ClarkFan on Jul 15, 2010 8:05 PM CDT up reply actions  

I know of one team with a bad habit of overpaying for players

just because they happen to be contending. But I wont name names. By the way Cat, I was agreeing with your backloaded comment, not arguing.

by holy mackeral on Jul 15, 2010 11:53 AM CDT up reply actions  

lol...Cat, that's cool, better than eg :)

"Well-behaved women seldom make History"---Laurel Thatcher Ulrich

by cooliogirl47 on Jul 15, 2010 11:59 AM CDT up reply actions  

yeah, I liked it, too

And it’s on target. My handle is from Felix Pie’s old nickname — Felix “El Gato” Pie.

El Gato, of course, means “the cat.”

by elgato on Jul 15, 2010 12:03 PM CDT up reply actions  

The Braves, Giants, Red Sox, and Padres

are all looking for outfield help. Both the Giants and Braves are known to be interested in Corey Hart (I’ve mentioned the Mike Minor for Hart rumor before). Although Hart is younger, I would argue Byrd is a better player, and his contract is actually cheaper this year than Hart’s (Hart will probably get a big enough raise in arbitration this year that the difference going forward will be minimal).

I’d like to see Byrd stick around because he’s a good guy and a bright spot on the team. I also don’t think he’ll be traded. But he might never be as valuable as he is now. Whatever the Brewers are trying to get for Hart (or the Royals for DeJesus), I’d at least like to know if we could get as good or better for Byrd.

by Bradsbeard on Jul 15, 2010 12:51 PM CDT up reply actions  

And he can, um, PLAY

The Cubs don’t have a lot of that going right now….

by ClarkFan on Jul 15, 2010 8:00 PM CDT up reply actions  

Where's he going to play when Brett Jackson, Tyler Colvin, and

The Albatross know as Alfonso Soriano’s contract man the outfield next year?

"You win because of the quarterback. We have to get that position stabilized. We're fixated on that." -- Jerry Angelo (12.30.2008)

Jerry Angelo trades for Jay Cutler! (4.2.2009)

by SackMan on Jul 15, 2010 9:36 AM CDT up reply actions  

I would hope

that Jackson doesn’t start the season with the Cubs next year. I have my doubts that Colvin is an everyday player long term. While I’m in favor of the Cubs taking offers for Byrd, I don’t think his presence on the roster is a problem next year at all. If we are able to move Fukudome, than Byrd could play RF, and Colvin gets his shot in center until Jackson is ready. If Jackson comes up mid season, you might have to play musical chairs in the outfield for a while, but I think ultimately Jackson gets the full time gig, and Colvin shares time with Soriano and Byrd. Or, Colvin proves better than Soriano and gets the majority of time in left and Soriano becomes an old, expensive 4th outfielder/pinch hitter.

by Bradsbeard on Jul 15, 2010 12:57 PM CDT up reply actions  

Obviously, being a good clubhouse guy isn't the only reason to keep guys around.

They have to have talent, too. But being a good clubhouse guy DOES have value to any team.

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al Yellon on Jul 15, 2010 10:19 AM CDT up reply actions  

Until someone can

translate good clubhouse guy into team wins, I fail to believe it has real value.

If a quality pitching start is 3 runs and 6 innings, then a quality hitting day is 1 for 4.

by tharr on Jul 15, 2010 2:35 PM CDT up reply actions  

You can assert that

all you want. Now try proving it. Why wasn’t it effective in the playoffs. Why didn’t it carryover to 2009. No, my friend, that clubhouse thing ain’t worth spit in terms of wins. Just because winning teams are happy doesn’t make happiness the reason.

If a quality pitching start is 3 runs and 6 innings, then a quality hitting day is 1 for 4.

by tharr on Jul 15, 2010 3:12 PM CDT up reply actions  

like your tag line

A quality day for many Cubs hitters would be 1 for 4.

"Actually, Major League Baseball is more like Neverland

And the Lost Boys don’t have to ever grow up. Some do, anyway, but that is not a universal characteristic"

by Madison Cub Fan on Jul 15, 2010 3:13 PM CDT up reply actions  

Why wasn’t it effective in the playoffs.

Because the manager didn’t prepare his team properly. Also, any team can lose three in a row if their opponent gets hot at the right time.

Why didn’t it carryover to 2009.

You’re really seriously asking this? Completely different team, with many of those good guys gone.

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al Yellon on Jul 15, 2010 3:26 PM CDT up reply actions  

Improper preparation for the 2008 playoffs

You have consistently beat this drum, Al, and I am glad to see that you are consistent. I feel the need to take the other viewpoint though.

The Cubs squeaked their way into the 2007 playoffs by playing hard up through the last few games of the season. They were swept in the playoffs. The Cubs had an awesome 2008 season, and had options about how to play the last couple of weeks of the season. Given the experience of the 2007 playoffs, I think that Lou was right to try something different – resting the regulars a lot during the end of the regular season. I think that the decision looks far worse in hindsight, but was completely understandable at the time.

"Wait, are you saying I'm a sunshine-pumping, koolaid-drinking, Soriano-loving, rainbow-rising, unicorn-riding, double-clutching, Sweet Lou-backing, Hendry-supporting, hey hey whaddya saying, Cubs are going all the waying, glass is overflowing, Rothschild is all-knowing, Cubs fan? - ballhawk

by vonde6 on Jul 15, 2010 3:38 PM CDT up reply actions  

I hated it when

the Cubs clinched early…especially in baseball…look at the Rockies in 2007 – got super hot and swept their way into the World Series because they had to play every day with the fear that losing would kick them out. Clinching early allows players, managers, staff to relax…if I had time I would research playoff series after teams had clinched early vs. team that had to play their way in and playoff series where one team played the minimum or close to the series before vs a team that had to play all 5 or 7 the series before.

Sipping the Kool-Aid since 1982 - Kinda
Currently 34,839 on the Season Ticket Wait List - Expected age of being #0: 119

by hansman1982 on Jul 15, 2010 5:17 PM CDT up reply actions  

Are you suggesting

the guys gone were worth 14 games? That’s a stretch. Can you provide any evidence that clubhouse chemistry actually wins games. Supposedly the chemistry of the team this year is excellent. How’s that worked out for them?

Look, I’m all in favor of having a happy clubhouse, but no one has ever proven it makes the slightest difference in wins and losses. It’s an urban legend.

If a quality pitching start is 3 runs and 6 innings, then a quality hitting day is 1 for 4.

by tharr on Jul 15, 2010 5:19 PM CDT up reply actions  

I have heard

the opposite, that chemistry on the Cubs is terrible.

I think most of the time chemistry is a result of the team’s record, rather than a cause of it. But asking for evidence or proof that chemistry has any effect on the team? I don’t know if that’s a more inane or pompous thing to do. Get over yourself. Why don’t you provide proof that chemistry has no effect on the team’s performance? That’s just as stupid a request.

DEJESUS!!!

by tomas21 on Jul 15, 2010 5:29 PM CDT up reply actions  

If there's anyone

who knows what is stupid, you’re the expert. Now you need to work on what is smart.

If a quality pitching start is 3 runs and 6 innings, then a quality hitting day is 1 for 4.

by tharr on Jul 16, 2010 8:55 AM CDT up reply actions  

Desperately!!!!

If there’s one reason to keep Soriano around it’s that he’s a good clubhouse guy too. Byrd, though, is irreplaceable on this team.

by jerry morales rules on Jul 15, 2010 9:56 AM CDT up reply actions  

Just re-hashing a deal from several off-seasons ago...

In December 2003, the Cardinals traded JD Drew and Eli Marrero to the Braves for….. wait for it….

Jason Marquis, Ray King, and some prospect named Adam Wainwright.

All 3 pitchers helped the Cardinals win a World Series 3 years later.

"You win because of the quarterback. We have to get that position stabilized. We're fixated on that." -- Jerry Angelo (12.30.2008)

Jerry Angelo trades for Jay Cutler! (4.2.2009)

by SackMan on Jul 15, 2010 9:01 AM CDT reply actions  

Wainwright was already really famous at the time of the trade.

He was BA’s #18 prospect for 2003.

MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown

by D98 on Jul 15, 2010 2:02 PM CDT up reply actions  

I really wouldn't rule out Aramis Ramirez just yet

as a trade candidate. Now, it’s more likely that, if he is dealt, that he is an August waiver deal, but if he gets hot, and teams check out his medical reports and are okay with it, I could see some teams inquiring. It’s a fairly weak market, unless some guys are put on the market that aren’t expected or if teams throw mega-deals for guys that no one is anticipating at the moment (like Fielder).

by toonsterwu on Jul 15, 2010 9:16 AM CDT reply actions  

No one's going to take that contract, especially because....

… if Ramirez is traded, a $16 million club option for 2012 becomes guaranteed. No team will do that.

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al Yellon on Jul 15, 2010 9:17 AM CDT up reply actions  

I think you're right, Al.

And it might be in the Cubs’ best interest to keep him if they want to compete next year. If Aramis can be a decent No. 5 hitter and play 120 games — which I think is likely, considering he’ll be in a contract year — he might be a real asset. Especially considering a decent replacement might want a multiyear deal.

by elgato on Jul 15, 2010 9:19 AM CDT up reply actions  

Ramirez will have a good 2011

Exactly for what you describe – it’s a contract year for him. Additionally, you’d like to hope that he isn’t injured. This season may have been marred by injury. You can already see that he’s starting to heat it up.

by jerry morales rules on Jul 15, 2010 9:35 AM CDT up reply actions  

Then keeping him makes sense.

Heck, if he has a good first half and the Cubs struggle in 2011, another team might be willing to trade for him for a season and a half of decent play.

by elgato on Jul 15, 2010 9:38 AM CDT up reply actions  

Still probably not at the extra $16M added

Perhaps if he’s hitting .280 with 20 HR’s at this point next season perhaps. We can only hope.

by jerry morales rules on Jul 15, 2010 9:40 AM CDT up reply actions  

20 HRs?

That’s virtually impossible. Maybe 15 …

by elgato on Jul 15, 2010 9:56 AM CDT up reply actions  

I'm dreaming, I know

but I don’t think that 15 hr’s at the break next year is going to cut it for another team to want to pick up 2012 at $16M.

by jerry morales rules on Jul 15, 2010 10:12 AM CDT up reply actions  

I really think that back-loading contracts is a terrible idea.

I’d almost rather front-load deals. That way, trading the guy in year four of a contract isn’t impossible.

by elgato on Jul 15, 2010 10:59 AM CDT up reply actions  

Quite true. But if you are looking to dump all of those contracts onto the next guy

that owns the team, they are a beautiful thing!

"Enough foreplay- let's get crackin'"- Fred Garvin

by davidalanu on Jul 15, 2010 11:47 AM CDT up reply actions  

I would agree

Obviously, the Tribune company was in a bit of a different mindset when they made these deals, but it certainly has hamstrung the team.

by jerry morales rules on Jul 15, 2010 12:47 PM CDT up reply actions  

el gato

besides players and agents….

do you think anyone thinks back loading contracts is a good idea?

"Actually, Major League Baseball is more like Neverland

And the Lost Boys don’t have to ever grow up. Some do, anyway, but that is not a universal characteristic"

by Madison Cub Fan on Jul 15, 2010 3:15 PM CDT up reply actions  

Of course not!

But Hendry took it to a new level in recent years.

by elgato on Jul 15, 2010 3:20 PM CDT up reply actions  

hence why I am worried about this off season

Not sure what you do for a living. But won’t it neat to know that even if you start doing bad at your job

A) you won’t lose it
B) you get paid more regardless

"Actually, Major League Baseball is more like Neverland

And the Lost Boys don’t have to ever grow up. Some do, anyway, but that is not a universal characteristic"

by Madison Cub Fan on Jul 15, 2010 3:40 PM CDT up reply actions  

I think it was a good idea

in the right situation. In the 90s and 2000s player salaries and team payrolls were rising quickly every off-season. A market value contract signed one year, even when backloaded, became a bargain in a few years.

Also, when you sign players to backloaded contracts when the player is in their prime, it isn’t a problem. It can help you fit players into difficult budget situations, and generally as they move into their prime they grow into their backloaded contract.

The problem with Hendry is he gave out a ton of backloaded contracts to players moving past their prime, and did it just before the economy went into a tailspin. The player’s Hendry backloaded started declining as their salary started climbing, which is a combo that makes the contract immovable. Making that mistake once or twice is something the team can work around. Hendry’s problem is he did it all at once on nearly every contract he signed. As I mentioned in another thread, Hendry has around $250 million in bad money on the books right now.

Backloaded contracts are not always a problem, in the right context. Hendry seems to have no clue what the right context is.

DEJESUS!!!

by tomas21 on Jul 15, 2010 4:07 PM CDT up reply actions  

backloading is ok - maybe not good but ok

if it is the same dollar amount you would have paid anyway, it is a 3 year deal for a relatively young player and if you need to add that person and one more this year to go from playoff hopefuly to playoff favorite…similiar to an A.R.M. – it is ok in certain circumstances

Sipping the Kool-Aid since 1982 - Kinda
Currently 34,839 on the Season Ticket Wait List - Expected age of being #0: 119

by hansman1982 on Jul 15, 2010 5:21 PM CDT up reply actions  

If he's traded AFTER this season, then 2012 isn't guaranteed.

That only applies for this season, if Cot’s is correct.

MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown

by D98 on Jul 15, 2010 2:02 PM CDT up reply actions  

Tell us when he got hurt

because he was terrible all the way back to spring training.

If a quality pitching start is 3 runs and 6 innings, then a quality hitting day is 1 for 4.

by tharr on Jul 15, 2010 2:36 PM CDT up reply actions  

No way of telling

unless you know what the medical reports say. but it seems unlikely to me that he’s healthy and suddenly can’t even sniff the mendoza line. ramirez has proven that, when healthy he’s a 4-5 WAR player which makes him easily worth his contract and several teams have said they don’t want to trade for a rental player. two more years of ramirez at $30 million is a very manageable contract, if he’s healthy. if he picks up where he left off after the break he’s going to garner some interest. oh, and the club option in 2012 is only guaranteed if he’s traded AND exercises his player option for 2011. i doubt that any team would trade for him unless they had a commitment, one way or the other, on his plans for next season.

by circuitclout on Jul 15, 2010 9:46 AM CDT up reply actions  

Ramirez is hitting .209, which is over the Mendoza line.

Since he returned from the DL he’s hitting .328/.381/.672 with 5 HR and 10 RBI in 63 plate appearances.

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al Yellon on Jul 15, 2010 10:20 AM CDT up reply actions  

How do these stats tell you that?

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al Yellon on Jul 15, 2010 10:34 AM CDT up reply actions  

Oh ...

Aramis started out badly in 2006 and had a monster second half — when the Cubs were pretty much out of it. Seems like the same thing is happening (or could happen) this year.

I know that a lot of the particulars are different (Lee was hurt in 2006, not ineffective, etc.). But the Aramis parallels are similar.

by elgato on Jul 15, 2010 10:38 AM CDT up reply actions  

Aramis didn't start THIS badly in 2006.

Plus, he wasn’t injured.

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al Yellon on Jul 15, 2010 12:39 PM CDT up reply actions  

I'm still trying to find

out what his injury was in April and May when he hit when his BA was .162. He had a tricep problem in ST and then suddenly he had a thumb injury. Are our trainers unaware of what the problem or cure is. Is our manager refusing to sit him long enough to heal. I wish someone would inform the fans rather than handling it as an X-File.

If a quality pitching start is 3 runs and 6 innings, then a quality hitting day is 1 for 4.

by tharr on Jul 15, 2010 3:01 PM CDT up reply actions  

Could have been the tricep problem.

In any case, do you really expect teams to hand out detailed medical reports?

That said, this management group has been reluctant to DL its veterans unless there’s an obvious injury seen on TV (Lee’s wrist in 2006, Soriano’s pulled hamstring in 2007). That’s why Soriano played four months on a bad knee last year when he should have been scoped in May.

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al Yellon on Jul 15, 2010 3:28 PM CDT up reply actions  

meant to say

“sniff the mendoza line for two months” so sorry for that. but, ramirez is a very good hitter who has seemingly recovered from a horrendous start. If he continues to hit after the break he’d be among the best (if not the best) hitter available at the deadline. i’d also suspect that a trade would be contingent on ramirez agreeing to exercise his 2011 option putting him under team control thru 2012. his recent injury history and poor start this year makes it more unlikely that he will opt out after this season but it is still not impossible. if you can get a nice return in the way of prospects and clear the money for the next two years, i think you have to take a long hard look at moving him.

by circuitclout on Jul 15, 2010 10:36 AM CDT up reply actions  

This

is why I think it is possible the Angels or Twins would give a decent return for Ramirez if we ate a little money. I don’t think it would have to be too much. If he tears it up over the next two weeks, someone may be unable to resist. Yeah he’d be expensive, but you’d get him for two years at a slight discount if we added cash to the deal.

I don’t think Hendry wants a complete rebuild, so I don’t think Ramirez moves. But aside from Byrd and Lilly he is probably our most valuable commodity.

by Bradsbeard on Jul 15, 2010 1:02 PM CDT up reply actions  

not sure why

 the cubs would have to eat any money to move ramirez. if he’s healthy he’s likely to be worth at least the $30 mil over 2 years and there is next to nothing of value at 3B on the FA market next year. the twins, angels, rays, white sox, and maybe even padres would figure to be in the mix if he was available. granted you don’t have a viable replacement in the organization and there’s nothing on the market but unless you can make a deal (privately) to assure he won’t opt you, i’d put him on the market.

by circuitclout on Jul 15, 2010 2:14 PM CDT up reply actions  

I wouldn't be so sure about that

Certainly, the Cubs would have to eat some of the 2012 money, but there’s been some rumblings out there that it’s something some teams would ponder. Now, it would require Aramis’ medicals being clean (something none of us know) and it would require Aramis getting hot. Furthermore, it would require a team needing a bat. The market, though, is pretty bad. The chances are slim that many, if any, Cubs get dealt, but there’s definitely been some rumblings out there about Aramis. Also, don’t be stunned if Aramis surprises folks and opts out of his 2011 player option, even if he’s still on the club. It’s definitely a bigger possibility than some think.

Again, not the betting money options, but there’s enough talk out there for me to think that teams will ponder Aramis, however briefly.

Tbh, right now, I’m not even sure Ted Lilly gets dealt.

by toonsterwu on Jul 15, 2010 12:06 PM CDT up reply actions  

the Twins or Angels

could receive a big boost of they could acquire a healthy, productive Ramirez.

by Bradsbeard on Jul 15, 2010 1:04 PM CDT up reply actions  

And have to pay his $16 million option for 2012?

They’ll never do it.

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al Yellon on Jul 15, 2010 2:40 PM CDT up reply actions  

you have to explain

how a $16 million dollar option for ramirez in his age 34 season is inherently a bad idea if he’s healthy? i’m not saying there isn’t risk involved but he’s a good hitter and he has almost no competition in free agency the next two years. if you figure to contend in 2011 or 2012 and don’t have viable option at 3B where else are you going to find one?

by circuitclout on Jul 15, 2010 2:48 PM CDT up reply actions  

There's no way the Twins or Angels pay that option.

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al Yellon on Jul 15, 2010 3:28 PM CDT up reply actions  

Which is why

we give them some cash in the deal if it will net a good package of prospects.

by Bradsbeard on Jul 15, 2010 4:02 PM CDT up reply actions  

Concur

There is an article in the Orange County Register today that says the Angels seem to have little appetite to do ANYTHING prior to the trade deadline. No way they take on a contract of this size. The twins never trade in this fashion at all.

"All of us are in the gutter...some of us are looking at the stars." Oscar Wilde

by Tingham on Jul 15, 2010 4:31 PM CDT up reply actions  

yeah, except

that’s not really what the orange county register says. in fact, the entire story is the writer’s opinion on what the Angels should do, with no insight to what the Angels are thinking of doing.

by circuitclout on Jul 15, 2010 8:31 PM CDT up reply actions  

is $16 million

high for a healthy Ramirez as a DH/1B?

Sipping the Kool-Aid since 1982 - Kinda
Currently 34,839 on the Season Ticket Wait List - Expected age of being #0: 119

by hansman1982 on Jul 15, 2010 5:23 PM CDT up reply actions  

No doubt the Cubs have to make trading Zambrano priority #1.

This relationship is already ugly and about to boil over. Forcing him to go to anger management only pisses him off more. These classes don’t work and they are ONLY used as punishment akin to putting a child in detention. If they actually bring him back as a bullpen piece I GUARANTEE he will tank every game left as a Cub.

Priority #2 I think is Lee, unless you can get more for Ramirez. After that you shop Lilly and I think you’re done.

by Jerry Mumphrey on Jul 15, 2010 9:24 AM CDT reply actions  

Question about all the NTCs

Were those part of the price it took to sign Soriano and Fukudome and re-sign Zambrano and Lee? Or was it Hendry’s idea to add them into the deals?

I'll go to my grave believing Armando Galarraga tossed the 21st perfect game in MLB history.

by EalyEagle on Jul 15, 2010 9:25 AM CDT reply actions  

Lee gets it because of his 5 and 10 status

I don’t think Soriano has no-trade but his contract length means “no trade”.

by rlpete on Jul 15, 2010 9:27 AM CDT up reply actions  

Friggin Samardzija has a NTC.

Anyone heard his name lately? Hell – hndry gave ’em away like business cards. Anyone here could be GM with the deep pockets he had to work with. Why did he feel the need to givs away the NTCs?

"I'll take one in the mouth over the eyes any day". - AJ Pierzynski

by lostinthevines on Jul 15, 2010 1:35 PM CDT up reply actions  

b/c Cubs HAD to make sure he didn't play football

I wonder if Jeff regrets his decision.

"Actually, Major League Baseball is more like Neverland

And the Lost Boys don’t have to ever grow up. Some do, anyway, but that is not a universal characteristic"

by Madison Cub Fan on Jul 15, 2010 2:06 PM CDT up reply actions  

He might.

I’m sure Joe Borchard regrets not playing football.

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al Yellon on Jul 15, 2010 2:40 PM CDT up reply actions  

1st move

while waiting to see what trades materialize there is no reason for the Cubs not to release Howry and promote samardzija, let spellcheck pitch in the bigs the rest of the year no matter what and finally figure out if he can help you.

by circuitclout on Jul 15, 2010 2:57 PM CDT up reply actions  

it's possible the Cubs could trade Howry

He’s actually been pretty good since coming over.

by elgato on Jul 15, 2010 3:59 PM CDT up reply actions  

Need to decide Mgmt first

I doubt Lee is going anywhere He makes $2.5m a year and who’s goign to pay that? There’s no guarantee he’d even waive his no-trade clause.

Lilly is interesting in that the Cubs get something if he leaes and get something if he stays, perhaps 2 or 3 more years if he’s not dealt. My guess is that the Cubs are in a mindset to limit payroll rather than increase it, so I don’t think Lilly returning is likely. At best, it would be a decision made after other personnel decisions (like Fukudome, Z, and Soriano). I think the Cubs should try to deal him and get a prospect or two plus whatever draft picks would be had. I think that is the most likely scenario.

If anybody wants Nady or Theriot, feel free. I don’t care what the Cubs get in return as long as it’s salary relief

The only way that I could see Fukudome go is if some team makes the financial calculation that adding a Japanese player will increase attendance in order to pay for his contract. He is probably decent enough to be an outfielder in the mold of So Taguchi, but $12M is a lot for that. This is probably much too complicated to be done as a trade deadline deal though.

Zambrano may have pitched his last with the Cubs, but he won’t be off the payroll this year, again because it’s too complicated to be done mid-season.

However, this is all dependent on what Ricketts is thinking from a GM perspective, at least in regards to Fukudome and Zambrano. Is he going to let Hendry make that decision? Only time will tell.

by jerry morales rules on Jul 15, 2010 9:30 AM CDT reply actions  

Lilly...

But this implies to me that the influence comes from Ricketts and I don’t see him stepping right now in that way. (I don’t see Hendry admitting that he must be a seller at this point.) But Lilly makes the most sense.

Other teams might be interested in a producing Lee, and a producing Fukudome, but then we might not be trying to trade them.

The other choice is Zambrano. Some GM/Manager combo with allot of ego has to step up with that “I can change him/I can work with him” mentality. The White Sox seem like a good fit in that sense. But the bigger issue may be a concern about the velocity or lack thereof, which then leads you back to a bad contract swap. Lilly is the only player likely to bring any longer term value in return. So, I am betting that the Cubs do little other than swap an angry Z for another bad contract.

by DudeVf11 on Jul 15, 2010 9:32 AM CDT reply actions  

feel nauseous

So many ‘nobody is going to take that contract on’ and ‘he has a NTC’ deals.

ugh.

The Zambrano thing has been bungled by the Cubs all the way around. Diminished-skills head-case with a horrible contract who’s not playing now and the Cubs have basically poured sugar in the gas tank of a crappy car they’re trying to sell that nobody wants anyway.

by rgonzale on Jul 15, 2010 9:49 AM CDT reply actions  

Just get rid of an outfielder

I want to see Fuld again and though he is not having the best year offensively at AAA, I figure he will still be next on the list if Nady or Dome go. I would like to have a a LITTLE fun this season.

FYI try to do something FAST Jim. I am coming in Saturday for a week of games. I was actually having the delusion their might be another manager by then, but I am not getting that.

"Lou Piniella's been a great manager for a long time and I stand by him completely"

by Doggie Stalker on Jul 15, 2010 10:02 AM CDT reply actions  

I knew that would appear somewhere here

How could she not want this.

"Actually, Major League Baseball is more like Neverland

And the Lost Boys don’t have to ever grow up. Some do, anyway, but that is not a universal characteristic"

by Madison Cub Fan on Jul 15, 2010 11:53 AM CDT up reply actions  

He is gone after this year

I would just like to see him get some playing time . You want to tell me watching Fuld in the OF is not more fun than watching Nady?

"Lou Piniella's been a great manager for a long time and I stand by him completely"

by Doggie Stalker on Jul 15, 2010 1:28 PM CDT up reply actions  

Shoot, based on this year Fuld is even worth more on offense

Even if he is struggling. Add a potential pinch runner whose speed is not described as “glacial” would be a boon.

Nady didn’t work out – anything the team can get is a plus.

by ClarkFan on Jul 15, 2010 8:24 PM CDT up reply actions  

Fuld again?

Don’t you think you’ve talked about him enough?

I didn't believe it last August, but it turns out that love survives.

Mount Washington conquered July 5, 2010

State high point count: 3/50

by Vermont Cubs Fan on Jul 15, 2010 12:27 PM CDT up reply actions  

c'mon

Why won’t we want Fuld, he is not having the best year offensively at AAA, but bet he could do great coming off the bench!

best TJ impersonation

"Actually, Major League Baseball is more like Neverland

And the Lost Boys don’t have to ever grow up. Some do, anyway, but that is not a universal characteristic"

by Madison Cub Fan on Jul 15, 2010 12:31 PM CDT up reply actions  

Because, the obsession she has with Fuld...

I didn't believe it last August, but it turns out that love survives.

Mount Washington conquered July 5, 2010

State high point count: 3/50

by Vermont Cubs Fan on Jul 15, 2010 12:32 PM CDT up reply actions  

Well, I have a crush on Brooklyn Decker

Doesn’t mean she should be patrolling left field for the games that I am going to in August. Fuld shouldn’t be getting playing time on this team.

by JSB on Jul 15, 2010 1:08 PM CDT up reply actions  

Brooklyn Decker?

GET IT DONE, JIM!!!!

"Wait, are you saying I'm a sunshine-pumping, koolaid-drinking, Soriano-loving, rainbow-rising, unicorn-riding, double-clutching, Sweet Lou-backing, Hendry-supporting, hey hey whaddya saying, Cubs are going all the waying, glass is overflowing, Rothschild is all-knowing, Cubs fan? - ballhawk

by vonde6 on Jul 15, 2010 1:27 PM CDT up reply actions  

The team is 39-50!

If they could sign Decker to play left, I would be totally for it. Need to design a new uni for her though.

by jerry morales rules on Jul 15, 2010 1:49 PM CDT up reply actions  

booo

to making her wear clothes.

DEJESUS!!!

by tomas21 on Jul 15, 2010 2:24 PM CDT up reply actions  

Well, she has to wear SOME clothes.

But just enough to distract opponents. I tell you, that enough would be worth a couple runs a game.

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al Yellon on Jul 15, 2010 2:41 PM CDT up reply actions  

Resigning Lilly would be a huge mistake

Cubs need a bonafide #1 Ace for this staff. The Cubs should trade Lilly or offer him arbitration and go full in for Cliff Lee. He’s a lefty and he’s the type of Ace this staff hasn’t had since Prior in 2003.

I’m sick and tired of the Cubs paying $13+ million for fringy #2-4 starters (BigZ, Silva, Lilly, Dempster) . Spend $17-18milliion on a true ace for once!

by magicblue on Jul 15, 2010 10:12 AM CDT reply actions   1 recs

I agree, we need an Ace!

Only re-sign Lilly if it’s for less $$ than he’s getting now and that ain’t gonna happen.

"Any player who gets the opportunity to play at Wrigley should welcome it"

by Itchy on Jul 15, 2010 10:16 AM CDT up reply actions  

The problem is that the Cubs may not be able to do more with Lee than the Mariners did and he will cost $20M or so a year

The 2011 Cubs won’t be a terrific team and 2012 may be a “getting better but not there” season, either. So then they have paid Lee $40M and used up about half of his remaining peak performance for nada….

by ClarkFan on Jul 15, 2010 8:27 PM CDT up reply actions  

Going to the games Fri & Sat.

When do they open the gates for the bleachers for Saturday’s noon start?

"Any player who gets the opportunity to play at Wrigley should welcome it"

by Itchy on Jul 15, 2010 10:18 AM CDT reply actions  

10 am.

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al Yellon on Jul 15, 2010 10:21 AM CDT up reply actions  

Thanks Al!

"Any player who gets the opportunity to play at Wrigley should welcome it"

by Itchy on Jul 15, 2010 10:27 AM CDT up reply actions  

Stop by and say hi.

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al Yellon on Jul 15, 2010 10:34 AM CDT up reply actions  

I will if I get a chance

"Any player who gets the opportunity to play at Wrigley should welcome it"

by Itchy on Jul 15, 2010 11:11 AM CDT up reply actions  

Stop by where I'm sitting, too!

I didn't believe it last August, but it turns out that love survives.

Mount Washington conquered July 5, 2010

State high point count: 3/50

by Vermont Cubs Fan on Jul 15, 2010 12:28 PM CDT up reply actions  

Well, count me in the "dreamer" category.....

….but I am actually hoping for quite the fire sale, unlikely though it may be.

I intend to celebrate with a cold beverage for each contract the Cubs are able to unload (endless beverages when Hendry becomes an unloaded contract himself).

Let’s see how much the Cubs’ payroll can be lowered for 2011………I’m still dreaming for oodles.

;-)

Official MCM Pessimist.

Oh, I'm sorry; did I poke a hole in the echo chamber?

by The Jade Scorpion on Jul 15, 2010 10:34 AM CDT reply actions  

OT Matt Murton update

Hitting .352. Is only two points behind for Central League batting title in Japan. Hey not every former MLB player does that well in Japan. Orange Guy found his niche. Not sure he likes Sushi but I am sure he is adjusting.

"Lou Piniella's been a great manager for a long time and I stand by him completely"

by Doggie Stalker on Jul 15, 2010 10:47 AM CDT reply actions  

Sushi--Yummy!

"Well-behaved women seldom make History"---Laurel Thatcher Ulrich

by cooliogirl47 on Jul 15, 2010 11:01 AM CDT up reply actions  

Hell yeah

"I'll take one in the mouth over the eyes any day". - AJ Pierzynski

by lostinthevines on Jul 15, 2010 1:37 PM CDT up reply actions  

I don't.

Bleecch.

"Fasten those seatbelts!"-Pat Hughes

by katie casey on Jul 15, 2010 11:03 AM CDT up reply actions  

Me either

No thanks to raw fish.

"Lou Piniella's been a great manager for a long time and I stand by him completely"

by Doggie Stalker on Jul 15, 2010 11:14 AM CDT up reply actions  

....or tapas

"Well-behaved women seldom make History"---Laurel Thatcher Ulrich

by cooliogirl47 on Jul 15, 2010 11:32 AM CDT up reply actions  

Sorry.

No sushi (or sashimi) for me, either. I like my food cooked.

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al Yellon on Jul 15, 2010 12:40 PM CDT up reply actions  

Some things are excellent raw

RIP Ronnie James Dio (July 10, 1942 - May 16, 2010).

by Ace Venom on Jul 15, 2010 12:40 PM CDT up reply actions  

Perhaps so.

But not fish.

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al Yellon on Jul 15, 2010 12:41 PM CDT up reply actions  

I'll give you that

I’m not a big fan of raw oysters either, but I’m generally not a fan of oysters as it is.

RIP Ronnie James Dio (July 10, 1942 - May 16, 2010).

by Ace Venom on Jul 15, 2010 12:44 PM CDT up reply actions  

Fish is best

Uncooked. Once you acquire the taste it is hard to eat your fish cooked.

"All of us are in the gutter...some of us are looking at the stars." Oscar Wilde

by Tingham on Jul 15, 2010 12:46 PM CDT up reply actions  

Give me some good fried catfish please

RIP Ronnie James Dio (July 10, 1942 - May 16, 2010).

by Ace Venom on Jul 15, 2010 12:49 PM CDT up reply actions