Marmol Melts Down, Cubs Play Eight Great Innings But Lose 4-1
by Al Yellon on Jul 17, 2010 4:04 PM CDT
in Chicago Cubs Recaps
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PrintAfter the end of the eighth inning, someone must have called Wrigley Field and let them know that the rental of the good Cubs from the last couple of days was up and they needed to return the Cubs from the first half.
What other explanation could there be? Eight innings of solid pitching from Randy Wells (who allowed six singles and a double, exactly one hit in each of his seven innings) and Sean Marshall, and a perfect suicide squeeze bunt from Ryan Theriot to score Starlin Castro, who had doubled. Carlos Marmol was on tap to close it out. What could go wrong?
The answer to that question is, "everything". Marmol wound up issuing five walks while throwing 2/3 of an inning. Via tweet from Carrie, we learn that hasn't happened to a Cubs reliever in 60 years:
The last time a #Cubs pitcher walked at least 5 batters in relief outing of 1 inning or less was Johnny Vander Meer, July 27, 1950.
But that isn't all. There was also a perfect throw from Tyler Colvin to Geovany Soto after Placido Polanco singled following the first two of those walks. It arrived in plenty of time to nail Brian Schneider and that would have ended the game in a 1-0 Cubs win... but Soto dropped the ball. Schneider was out by at least 10 feet.
After three more walks -- one intentional to Ryan Howard after Jimmy Rollins stole second, something they really had to do rather than let Howard smash a ball onto Sheffield -- James Russell came into the game and failed to cover first on a routine grounder to Derrek Lee that would have ended the inning with the Cubs trailing "only" 3-1.
It was brutal. The Cubs lost a winnable game, 4-1 to the Phillies.
The shame of it isn't just losing the way they did, but the fact that for the first seven innings, Randy Wells matched up very well with Cole Hamels. Wells scattered seven hits, walked a pair and got out of innings with good defense. So did Hamels; he allowed just the one run when Theriot's excellent bunt scored Castro -- and the Cubs had a shot at more runs because Theriot wound up safe at first.
Unfortunately, he then performed his first TOOTBLAN of the second half, getting thrown out stealing with only one out. The Cubs got the leadoff man -- Derrek Lee -- on base in the eighth, and then he too was thrown out; I suppose there must have been a missed sign somewhere, because D-Lee doesn't go on straight steals any more (this was only his fifth SB attempt in the last two years).
To give up completely after just one bad game is foolish. As noted on the postgame WGN radio show, the Cubs have little margin for error. However, that doesn't mean that suddenly everyone is tradeable again. Let's see what happens tomorrow and in the series vs. the Astros over the next few days. The Cubs have shown that they can hang in there vs. a pretty good pitcher (Hamels). Hopefully, they'll do the same against Roy Halladay tomorrow.
Schedule note: tomorrow's game shows on original schedules as a 5:05 pm CDT start -- it has been moved back to ESPN's usual Sunday night time of 7:05 pm CDT.
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Like you said, they lost a winnable game. Right after Marmol's first pitch to Schneider was called a ball
instead of what was supposed to be strike one, EVERYTHING just fell apart. I think that Cashner should have been brought in instead of Russell. Oh well, beat Halladay, and there is still hope
by braziliancubsfan on Jul 17, 2010 4:10 PM CDT reply actions
He was squeezed several times....
….incredibly aggravating finish.
by JB 23 on Jul 17, 2010 4:13 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
Tough game, there's no denying that
However, they still have a chance to win the series tomorrow. 3 out of 4 versus Philly isn’t bad
"Brant Brown...DROPS THE BALL!!!!"
not at all, but if they do win, you'll look back at today and say "man, we could have sweeped"
by braziliancubsfan on Jul 17, 2010 4:12 PM CDT up reply actions
definitelyI was just trying to find the silver lining
"Brant Brown...DROPS THE BALL!!!!"
by cubswgnrocks on Jul 17, 2010 4:13 PM CDT up reply actions
definitely**
"Brant Brown...DROPS THE BALL!!!!"
by cubswgnrocks on Jul 17, 2010 4:13 PM CDT up reply actions
I'm not going to give up yet.
But man this was a tough loss. We are clearly a better team than the Phillies right now, but we can’t say that if we continue to hand teams wins.
Marmol deserves all the blame for this loss. We need to win tomorrow and sweep the Astros. That would put us 6 games under.
Maybe next year is finally our year.
EPIC
"You win because of the quarterback. We have to get that position stabilized. We're fixated on that." -- Jerry Angelo (12.30.2008)
Jerry Angelo trades for Jay Cutler! (4.2.2009)
00000
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by BrewCrew'sPrinceofDarkness on Jul 17, 2010 4:24 PM CDT up reply actions
This was not epic.
We’ve seen epic fails…committing errors constantly, lack of hitting to win, etc. We had the game won. Had our closer on the mound. We had him fail. He was squeezed, Soto couldn’t catch a ball…it was heartbreaking sure, but stuff like this will happen during the season to the best of teams. Yes, even Mariano Rivera fails sometimes. We need Soto in there hitting…I suppose you can sub Hill in the last inning of a game and hope he won’t make the same mistake, but really a loss like this you hope is a fluke and move on. There wasn’t a lot more to do than the manager or the team did.
"The ones who want to achieve and win championships motivate themselves." - Da Coach
by Sandberg's evil twin on Jul 18, 2010 2:02 PM CDT up reply actions
Hey Al
To give up completely after just one bad game is foolish.
You are right one bad game isn’t a reason to give up.
But giving up completely on a weak ass, poorly constructed team with No Bullpen, No Manager, No Clutch Hitting, and No heart that is 10 games under .500 isn’t foolish is it?
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by BrewCrew'sPrinceofDarkness on Jul 17, 2010 4:19 PM CDT reply actions
They sure looked like they had all of those things the last two days.
Well, except the weak ass part. Looked like a real team, in fact, did so until the 9th inning today.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
1 run on 9 hits does not a real team make.
In all honesty it was more of the same crap we have seen all year.
Great starting pitching only to be wasted by no run support, bad fielding, and guys in the bullpen who cant get the job done.
Sorry but to have faith in this team because of 2 wins is, well, foolish.
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by BrewCrew'sPrinceofDarkness on Jul 17, 2010 4:29 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
BS
They scraped out that run pretty well on a good pitcher. Both Hamel and Wells escaped a lot of jams today. There was nothing wrong with their execution until the ninth inning.
"Wait, are you saying I'm a sunshine-pumping, koolaid-drinking, Soriano-loving, rainbow-rising, unicorn-riding, double-clutching, Sweet Lou-backing, Hendry-supporting, hey hey whaddya saying, Cubs are going all the waying, glass is overflowing, Rothschild is all-knowing, Cubs fan? - ballhawk
You would be 100% right
if the team weren’t 10 games under .500 and had been doing the same thing all season long.
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by BrewCrew'sPrinceofDarkness on Jul 17, 2010 6:23 PM CDT up reply actions
as a forty-year Cubs fan
I guess that I have developed selective amnesia. What first half of the season?
Until the ninth, I thought that it was more characteristic of the last couple of games. But the ninth actually put it in a class all by itself.
"Wait, are you saying I'm a sunshine-pumping, koolaid-drinking, Soriano-loving, rainbow-rising, unicorn-riding, double-clutching, Sweet Lou-backing, Hendry-supporting, hey hey whaddya saying, Cubs are going all the waying, glass is overflowing, Rothschild is all-knowing, Cubs fan? - ballhawk
I don't.
The pitching was great for 8 innings.
What else did the Cubs do well?
They don’t field and they can’t hit.
It was a great melt down but the bats on this team would score more than a run a game the Bullpen wouldn’t be under pressure all the time.
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by BrewCrew'sPrinceofDarkness on Jul 17, 2010 6:46 PM CDT up reply actions
I'm gonna take the narrow view here
And say that our guys didn’t hit Cole Hamels. A lot of other teams don’t either.
"Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have?" -Frank Chance
"If [Ruth] had [called his shot], I would have knocked him down with the next pitch." -Charlie Root
and if this game was played in a vacuum, or April, that would be a valid point
but what the Cubs offense did today was something they have done early and often. I get that what Marmol did was especially bad, but claiming that we lost a game where we only scored 1 run is some new fangled outcome we just couldn’t see coming is weird
by HuskerCorner on Jul 17, 2010 10:52 PM CDT up reply actions
Narrow view! Narrow view!
Allow me my blinders, please.
"Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have?" -Frank Chance
"If [Ruth] had [called his shot], I would have knocked him down with the next pitch." -Charlie Root
He's still right when you're talking about one game.
We played great for 8 innings and had one error and a very good closer fail. This team has sucked this year, but this game was not indictive of that. Hamels and Holliday make most of the league hit little during the whole season. If the Cubs score only one run against Halladay will you say again it’s because the team sucks this year? Did you think Halladay had a perfect game this year because the other team was horrible?
"The ones who want to achieve and win championships motivate themselves." - Da Coach
by Sandberg's evil twin on Jul 18, 2010 2:06 PM CDT up reply actions
Marmol was definitely
horrible today, and Geo’s drop at the plate ended up costing them the game. However, the story was much like it has been all year long. They only scored one run on nine hits. Not going to win many games that way.
I also thought it was painfully evident that Marmol feel apart mentally after the tying run scored. As far as giving up on the season, I watch no matter how they are doing and I will be there in person for a game against the Brewers next month. But no, I don’t think they have a chance in hell of finishing the season over .500, let alone making the playoffs. I also don’t hold out much hope of beating Halladay tomorrow, which is why the win today would have been so sweet.
They beat Halladay twice when he was with Toronto
Once when Sergio Mitre pitched the game of his life and beat them 2-1 or some such score, then again in 2008 in Toronto when Reed Johnson hit a grand slam off him in the first inning. I was there to see it.
So I’m not chalking up Sunday as an automatic L just yet, although winning today would have been great. And losing sucked.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jul 17, 2010 4:23 PM CDT up reply actions
The Phillies are only 11-8 in the 19 games Halladay has started this year.
Sending him out there is not an automatic win for them.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
Since returning to the rotation...
… Gorz is 2-0 in three starts with a 2.25 ERA in 16 innings. He’s struck out 16. The only thing to watch out for is the walks — he’s walked 10 in those three outings, although six of the ten were in the first of the three starts vs. the Diamondbacks.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
That's true to a point.
His ERA is around 2. They’ve lost because of a lack of run support…something our pitchers are very familiar with. The key is definitely Gorzy today and him limiting the Phillies to 2 runs or less.
"The ones who want to achieve and win championships motivate themselves." - Da Coach
by Sandberg's evil twin on Jul 18, 2010 2:09 PM CDT up reply actions
I'll give you credit for optimism
The season has been over since early July. Not just because of “one bad game” as you state but three and a half bad months.
by rlpete on Jul 17, 2010 4:25 PM CDT reply actions 1 recs
Yes, there have been several bad months.
One solid one could overcome that. It remains to be seen whether that can happen.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
The numbers don't add up
With 70 games left, the Cubs would need to go 44-26 just to get to 85 wins. That is a .628 winning percentage. The only team playing that well so far this year are the Yankees. So to win 85 games, the Cubs basically have to play as well as the Yankees for 2+ months.
Not saying it's likely.
Only that it’s possible.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
"Solid" wouldn't do it - they need more like "stunning"
Going 16-10 is a solid month – The Cubs need 20-6 or 21-5 to climb back in. Not impossible, but tough.
One request for Lou.
Please stop having Theriot leadoff please. Castro-Soto-Byrd-Ramirez-Lee-Soriano-Colvin-Theriot would be just fine.
Maybe next year is finally our year.
Fine - yes they should fine Theriot $100 every time he swings at a first pitch and $500 for every TOOTBLAN
He could pay off the Rickett’s loan…
Just one request?
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by BrewCrew'sPrinceofDarkness on Jul 17, 2010 4:29 PM CDT up reply actions
Second Request
Should Marmol ever walk 2 or more in the 9th inning again, please yank him out before he can do more damage thank you very much.
I see why Lou didn't do it.
Because Marmol seems to be very sensitive to things like that. But I do agree with you though.
Maybe next year is finally our year.
And feeling are always more important than wins.
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by BrewCrew'sPrinceofDarkness on Jul 17, 2010 4:47 PM CDT up reply actions
I disagree
Marmol has pitched himself into and out of jams quite a few times. At the point where he had walked two, I still think that Carlos Marmol was our best best for getting out of that jam.
"Wait, are you saying I'm a sunshine-pumping, koolaid-drinking, Soriano-loving, rainbow-rising, unicorn-riding, double-clutching, Sweet Lou-backing, Hendry-supporting, hey hey whaddya saying, Cubs are going all the waying, glass is overflowing, Rothschild is all-knowing, Cubs fan? - ballhawk
best best == best bet
"Wait, are you saying I'm a sunshine-pumping, koolaid-drinking, Soriano-loving, rainbow-rising, unicorn-riding, double-clutching, Sweet Lou-backing, Hendry-supporting, hey hey whaddya saying, Cubs are going all the waying, glass is overflowing, Rothschild is all-knowing, Cubs fan? - ballhawk
Agreed.
He’s often walked batters before focusing and getting the team out finally….yet still been effective as a closer. If you yank him after walking a batter or two, really you can’t use him at all. I think he should have perhaps been pulled a batter earlier, but he was getting squeezed, he would have saved the game if Soto hadn’t fumbled the throw, and yanking him after 1-2 walks would mean losing him for most of the games.
"The ones who want to achieve and win championships motivate themselves." - Da Coach
by Sandberg's evil twin on Jul 18, 2010 2:13 PM CDT up reply actions
How about not having Theriot play at all?
….He is painful to watch
by JB 23 on Jul 17, 2010 4:49 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
On Russell...
As Hollandsworth noted, that one wasn’t really on him. His pitching motion takes him off the mound to the 3B side (a less than ideal fielding position).
But the ball was hit by a LH out on his front foot, rolling over a breaking ball. He had essentially a running start.
Russell did pause for a part of a second, but he wouldn’t have gotten there even if he reacted immediately.
But...
… the runner was a 38-year-old outfielder. Surely a 24-year-old pitcher can get over there faster than Old Man Ibanez.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
Nonsense.
They showed the replay twice on tv. Russell got a poor jump, but it wouldn’t have mattered.
When Ibanez made contact, he was 90 feet from 1B with all his momentum going that direction. While Russell was ~ 70 feet from 1B going the wrong direction (falling off to the 3B side).
My first reaction to the play was “where is Russell?!?!” But the replay showed it was just a bad collection of circumstances.
AKA:
a bad collection of circumstances
A Cubbie Occurrence
We have met the enemy and they are us! ~ Walt Kelly, Pogo, 1971
no
Ban this term from BCB! Please!
"Wait, are you saying I'm a sunshine-pumping, koolaid-drinking, Soriano-loving, rainbow-rising, unicorn-riding, double-clutching, Sweet Lou-backing, Hendry-supporting, hey hey whaddya saying, Cubs are going all the waying, glass is overflowing, Rothschild is all-knowing, Cubs fan? - ballhawk
A pitcher whose motion carries him off the mound in a way that makes it
hard for him to beat the runner to the bag? Hardly unique to the Cubs.
"The ones who want to achieve and win championships motivate themselves." - Da Coach
by Sandberg's evil twin on Jul 18, 2010 2:15 PM CDT up reply actions
Early July??
HAHAHA!
They have not been .500 since May 2nd!
Some here are just so delusional -
This is the earlier thread from Al:
“There’s still time to turn this around, but they need a run right now.”
How bad does it have to get for one to realize “THIS IS NOT THE YEAR”?
40 games out??
50?
Geez….
Yup, Sell the parts of the team you can and build for 2012.
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by BrewCrew'sPrinceofDarkness on Jul 17, 2010 4:31 PM CDT up reply actions
Do you see the parts to build a great team right now?
Hendry (which this was more the Tribune not really him) built the team to Win-Now in 2007.
The window to Win-Now is closed.
It will take at least a year and a half to get the team put back together to make another run.
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by BrewCrew'sPrinceofDarkness on Jul 17, 2010 4:35 PM CDT up reply actions
Yes.
We need a first baseman and a high OBP second basemen. In a ideal world we need another starter by next year – because I really don’t trust Carlos Silva. And a solid middle reliever and I do think you have a nucleus of talent to have a great team.
Maybe next year is finally our year.
No reason
this franchise cannot contend in 2011. None whatsoever.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jul 17, 2010 4:40 PM CDT up reply actions
K Bruce. Prove it.
Build a team out of this team that could contend.
But you can’t Spend over 145 million next year in payroll. Lets see what you come up with.
Is it that you have real idea of how this team can contend or is this just magical thinking?
I’m not being an ass I’m really wondering. I’m giving you the benefit of the doubt. Please show us you are not just talking to talk.
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by BrewCrew'sPrinceofDarkness on Jul 17, 2010 4:44 PM CDT up reply actions
If the Cubs trade for a first baseman
such as Prince Fielder or Adrian Gonzalez during the offseason, I bet you change your mind.
Maybe next year is finally our year.
You realize that
Gonzalez’ agent is looking for a “Texiera” 8-year-type deal, right?
We have Z, A-Ram and Sori still on the books.
You know this too, right?
No I wouldn't
You bring in either of those guys to replace Lee and it is not a huge upgrade.
Also we have all been spoiled rotten with Dlee’s Defense. Neither of those guys are Gold Glovers.
Also how does that fix the offense. One batter? Really? That’s it?
What about the the Pen? You have to let Lilly walk to pay for Fielder ro Gonzales. Who is going to relpace him? Who is going to be your Ace? What about the defense. What do you do about the log jam in the Outfield.
One player is going to fix those problems? Please explain more.
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by BrewCrew'sPrinceofDarkness on Jul 17, 2010 4:52 PM CDT up reply actions
Gonzalez is a pretty good defender.
He’s no Derrek Lee but he’s good. And Gonzalez is no upgrade to Lee? I think he really is. Especially an aging Derrek Lee.
I would let Lilly walk. I think Gorz can fill his void.
The defense? Well Castro would have his feet wet at short and the outfield defense would be fine with the exception of Soriano. Really the infield defense would be fine as long as you get a average defender at second.
Maybe next year is finally our year.
It's not as hopeless a task
as BCPD would like to portray.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jul 17, 2010 5:00 PM CDT up reply actions
Prove it!
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by BrewCrew'sPrinceofDarkness on Jul 17, 2010 5:14 PM CDT up reply actions
Judging by this tread I think he asked me
to suck the “not as hopeless a task” of making coming up with roster moves that would make the cubs competitive in 2011 for a world series.
But I could be wrong.
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by BrewCrew'sPrinceofDarkness on Jul 17, 2010 5:48 PM CDT up reply actions
Proving it among people on a blog on the internet is irrevalant
The point behind everything is that it is possible for this team to contend. We have a good farm system and contracts coming off the books soon.
Maybe next year is finally our year.
You have a lot more tolerance
for being baited than I do, U, but you are quite correct.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jul 17, 2010 5:18 PM CDT up reply actions
And my point is the farm does not have MLB ready talent
and the money coming off the books isn’t enough to fix the systemic problems with this team.
Anything can happen. Look at the 1989 Cubs but odds are they will suck as much in 2011 as in 2010
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by BrewCrew'sPrinceofDarkness on Jul 17, 2010 5:24 PM CDT up reply actions
How are you measuring
if farm systems by proving if they are MLB ready? Many thought Justin Smoak was Major League ready and while he isn’t having a horrible season, he looks like he is overmatched at times.
Jay Jackson, Thomas Diamond, Darwin Barney are major league ready. None of them are blue chip prospects but we have those prospects coming up soon (Brett Jackson, Chris Archer, Chris Carpenter, Ryan Flaherty).
We have contracts coming off that should allow us to offer a contract to one of the big three first basemen due to hit the market in 2011 if we trade for them. And we have talent to trade in the farm system to get some talent to fill our holes (second base, another starter).
Maybe next year is finally our year.
The Cubs lack a foundation to build around
to create a Would Series Team.
It is what happens when you play 37 million a year to your 6th hitter and a Bullpen guy.
The Cubs don’t have an Ace. In all honesty most World Series teams have 2.
The Cubs don’t have a feared line up. Most World Series Teams have 2 guys that no one wants to face.
The Cubs don’t have a complete Bullpen. Most World Series Teams have 2 lock down pen guys.
Play off teams need two of these three.
The Cubs have none. In all honesty if the cubs are smart they will try to build one of these two in 2011 and then get the other in 2012 this is the year they can complete.
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by BrewCrew'sPrinceofDarkness on Jul 17, 2010 5:38 PM CDT up reply actions
Man you are a broken record.
I don’t understand your compulsion to prove a hypothetical.
"The ones who want to achieve and win championships motivate themselves." - Da Coach
by Sandberg's evil twin on Jul 18, 2010 2:20 PM CDT up reply actions
Lilly walking is a more that should net two high draft picks.
I’m OK with that.
Talking the Lilly money and Lee money to get let say fielder is an upgrade at first and gets you a left handed power bat they need.
But then lets look at the the strongest part of this team this year, starting pitching:
Dempster
Wells
Gorz
Silva
and TBA
Wells has regressed from 2009 and in my opinion Silva has played way above his abilities. Let just figure one of the two of those guys are going to have issues as the season moves along.
That leaves two spots in the rotation to fix.
Who is the new second baseman? Will he lead off?
What about the Pen? What about the other parts of the Cubs line up?
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by BrewCrew'sPrinceofDarkness on Jul 17, 2010 5:22 PM CDT up reply actions
Wells has regressed from 2009
wells has been more inconsistent than regressive (dont know if thats the right word, but whatever)
by jesus christos on Jul 17, 2010 5:28 PM CDT up reply actions
I think they are one in the same.
But I also think MLB hitters are starting to figure him out.
I’m not saying he’s done. Baseball is a game of adjustments and I’m hoping Wells can make a new adjustment to get back into the grove he was in in 2009.
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by BrewCrew'sPrinceofDarkness on Jul 17, 2010 5:31 PM CDT up reply actions
you do know wells has been really good in his last 4 starts, right?
by jesus christos on Jul 17, 2010 5:37 PM CDT up reply actions
I know he has.
I think he will have a long career as a 3rd or 4th starter.
I think judging by his rookie year we were all hoping he might be a solid number 2.
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by BrewCrew'sPrinceofDarkness on Jul 17, 2010 5:40 PM CDT up reply actions
The Phillies have a tough batting order
And they didn’t have Wells figured out today. He does keep coming back. I wouldn’t write him off just yet.
"Wait, are you saying I'm a sunshine-pumping, koolaid-drinking, Soriano-loving, rainbow-rising, unicorn-riding, double-clutching, Sweet Lou-backing, Hendry-supporting, hey hey whaddya saying, Cubs are going all the waying, glass is overflowing, Rothschild is all-knowing, Cubs fan? - ballhawk
I'm not.
I think he will finish the season at .500 while the team will finish 17 games under.
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by BrewCrew'sPrinceofDarkness on Jul 17, 2010 5:41 PM CDT up reply actions
I think you are wrong on Wells
His results were better than they should have been last year and are worse than they should be this year. He is more than capable as a number 4 starter.
Actually Gonzalez is probably a better fielder than Lee
Lee’s defense has become way overrated. He is a good first-basemen, but he isn’t Brooks Robinson out there.
...
Are you saying that he’s lost a step or that he can’t pick? If the former, I might agree with you a bit. If the latter, we’re going to have to chat a bit more, I think.
"Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have?" -Frank Chance
"If [Ruth] had [called his shot], I would have knocked him down with the next pitch." -Charlie Root
Oh Bruce?
Any Response Bruce?
Are you thinking Bruce?
Are you just making crap up Bruce?
Many here would love to know.
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by BrewCrew'sPrinceofDarkness on Jul 17, 2010 4:55 PM CDT up reply actions
There is no reason
a franchise like the Cubs cannot compete every season.
Hey, nobody thought they’d ever get rid of Milton Bradley.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jul 17, 2010 4:58 PM CDT up reply actions
Yeah and getting rid of Milton turn this team into a winner.
You love to make statements yet most have no basis in fact.
If you disagree with me, prove I’m wrong.
Show us what changes you would make so this team can “Compete every season.”
Personally think you are nothing more than an internet tough guy coward, but I’m willing to let you prove me wrong.
So me. show us all wise one.
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by BrewCrew'sPrinceofDarkness on Jul 17, 2010 5:12 PM CDT up reply actions
Look who's talking
Go soak your head, moron.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jul 17, 2010 5:14 PM CDT up reply actions
Knock off the namecalling!
If you feel you’re being baited and want to do this, step away from the computer.
That goes for both of you.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
Man. some of you guys must be real fun at parties
"When they signed Fukudome, I knew they were trying to get me fired". - Ron Santo, January, 2008
LOL
Yeah, no feel-good session after THAT game.
"Wait, are you saying I'm a sunshine-pumping, koolaid-drinking, Soriano-loving, rainbow-rising, unicorn-riding, double-clutching, Sweet Lou-backing, Hendry-supporting, hey hey whaddya saying, Cubs are going all the waying, glass is overflowing, Rothschild is all-knowing, Cubs fan? - ballhawk
While unrealistic, I was holding out some small amount of hope but
the Reds series convinced there wasn’t a shred of hope in this team.
Yesterday Marmol had like a 12 pitch, all strikeout save.
And today he blows up. Sigh. I love Marmol but sometimes I wish we had a little less of a heart attack closer.
All closers are "heart-attack closers"
Can’t be perfect every day.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jul 17, 2010 4:33 PM CDT up reply actions
That's not even close to being factual
For years Wagner and Hoffman and Rivera were close to perfect. The difference between them and Marmol is clearly their control.
If a quality pitching start is 3 runs and 6 innings, then a quality hitting day is 1 for 4.
Really?
Hoffman has blown 13% of his saves in his career and even in some of his best years blew between 3-7 saves a year. Marmol is a fine closer.
Sorry, I guess I should have made an allowance
for the couple of HOF-caliber closers still out there. 90-plus percent of them are “heart-attack closers.”
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jul 17, 2010 8:02 PM CDT up reply actions
According to MLB
Hoffman has 596 saves in 644 chances which is a 92.5% success. Marmol is 40/51 or 78%. No question that Marmol is almost unhittable when he is throwing strikes, but too often he’s not. As a result, like NBF says, he’s one pitch away from a heart attack. Sorry, but a championship team needs a closer that is more consistent.
Imagine what he’d bring in a trade. I doubt Hendry would do it, but if the return is great, I wouldn’t mind seeing him go.
If a quality pitching start is 3 runs and 6 innings, then a quality hitting day is 1 for 4.
if a contending team needs a consistent closer
why would they give up nice prospects?
by jesus christos on Jul 17, 2010 10:29 PM CDT up reply actions
Perception is reality
Marmol would be irrationally desirable for some teams with his K rate. I’d wager we could peel away some quality prospects for his services,
If a quality pitching start is 3 runs and 6 innings, then a quality hitting day is 1 for 4.
Marmol...
… didn’t have his slider working, but he insisted on using it. He should have stuck with fastballs.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
I have a crazy Idea.
How about the Cubs pay a guy on the team to keep on eye on players while they are playing and pitching. If they aren’t playing or pitching well then that guy could come out and remove the bad playing player or pitcher and put in someone else that is more effective.
That would be great. I’m going to e-mail my Idea to the Cubs Management right now.
(This story was produced by BCPDnewservice. Our motto: If you don’t like this story then suck it!)
by BrewCrew'sPrinceofDarkness on Jul 17, 2010 4:39 PM CDT up reply actions
It's really surprising that they don't have someone like this right now.
Oh, wait.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
UGGH, I just saw the play where the Phillies tied the game and al I can say is.......
WHAT THE HELL WAS THAT???? Hill would have made that play
by braziliancubsfan on Jul 17, 2010 4:30 PM CDT reply actions
And then people were bitching here nonstop
about why Hill was playing more than Soto.
Can’t win.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jul 17, 2010 4:33 PM CDT up reply actions
Thanks for pointing that out.
In the words of TJ:
Not Bruce Froemming is AMAZING!!!
(This story was produced by BCPDnewservice. Our motto: If you don’t like this story then suck it!)
by BrewCrew'sPrinceofDarkness on Jul 17, 2010 4:36 PM CDT up reply actions
For those of you who have life-comprehension problems,
glad to oblige, BCPD.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jul 17, 2010 4:39 PM CDT up reply actions
Yup. The wise people I listen too:
The dalai lama
Dr. Oz
Not Bruce Froemming
and Bob Vila
(This story was produced by BCPDnewservice. Our motto: If you don’t like this story then suck it!)
by BrewCrew'sPrinceofDarkness on Jul 17, 2010 4:46 PM CDT up reply actions
Or your starting catcher could make an easy play
You don’t have to be a defensive ace to make that play. Soto blew it plain and simple.
You know who blows it plain and simple every single day?
Lou Piniella… every day he bats Soto 7th or 8th while he’s the best hitter on the team and stiffs like Theriot first. This was just one play… a crucial play, but the Cubs would need far fewer histrionics to win games if they’d just use their resources more efficiently.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Just North of Wrigley Field
by jameslcrockett on Jul 18, 2010 10:04 AM CDT up reply actions
Consistent Losing and bad play
will do that to fans sometimes, Bruce.
In going over the teams w/winning
records in the NL, I have not seen a “quality” catcher flub like that when the runner is beat by 10 feet. You HAVE to make that play. Regardless if there was one run on one hit. That play wins the game.
Correct, and...
… if that play is made and the game is won, what would you then be saying about the Cubs’ chances?
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
I'd be saying that
hopefully it would increase some players values for a necessary “trade-high” scenario!
So you're advocating a trade of Soto?
You know, E, I used to have a lot of respect for you.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jul 17, 2010 4:42 PM CDT up reply actions
Bruce - I did not say that.
Where did you get that from?
I wish Hendry do salary dumps with players, those in the last year of their contracts – can get moved while on performance upswings. That’s all.
Still, though...
SOTO MUST make that play at the plate.
Don't take the bait.
(This story was produced by BCPDnewservice. Our motto: If you don’t like this story then suck it!)
by BrewCrew'sPrinceofDarkness on Jul 17, 2010 4:48 PM CDT up reply actions
No bait needs to be taken
That’s how I interpreted what he wrote.
And yes, Soto needed to make that play.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jul 17, 2010 4:57 PM CDT up reply actions
I feel like I did
when I found out there was no Santa Claus. :-(
A lovely story:
One day, long, long ago, there lived a woman who didn't whine, nag or bitch. That would be me....
But that was a long time ago and it was just that one day.
The end
WHAT!?!?!?!?!?!?!
(This story was produced by BCPDnewservice. Our motto: If you don’t like this story then suck it!)
by BrewCrew'sPrinceofDarkness on Jul 17, 2010 4:40 PM CDT up reply actions
Now you've done it, Sue
Princes of Darkness have feelings, too.
"Wait, are you saying I'm a sunshine-pumping, koolaid-drinking, Soriano-loving, rainbow-rising, unicorn-riding, double-clutching, Sweet Lou-backing, Hendry-supporting, hey hey whaddya saying, Cubs are going all the waying, glass is overflowing, Rothschild is all-knowing, Cubs fan? - ballhawk
The IBB was a horrible, horrible, horrible call
Marmol was struggling with his control and loading the bases was just begging for trouble. An IBB wasn’t going to magically cure Marmol of those control problems and turn him back into a dominating reliever. Quite the contrary, that sort of call tends to backfire more often than not.
Howard’s a good hitter, but he’s not even close to good enough to justify that kind of call, especially considering he had Jayson Werth batting behind him.
That was the saddest I've been in attendence at a Cubs game since
I was at the 07 NLDS game…that just made me upset. It would’ve been an AWESOME way to end the game had Soto made the play. I know Marmol didn’t pitch well but c’mon Geo — you’re a professional athlete getting paid millions of dollars. MAKE THE PLAY.
Sigh :(
A-well-a Byrd, Byrd, Byrd, well the Byrd is the word.
the worst thing about the Geo muff in the 9th
was that he had lots of time to handle the throw and then apply the tag. Soto just panicked—very un- clutch.
Carlos Silva lemonade: made from freshly squeezed Milton Bradley lemons. -- the Jim Hendry kook book.
Exactly. Just make the fundamental play.
Catch it with two hands and tag the guy out. Colvin had him by a mile.
A-well-a Byrd, Byrd, Byrd, well the Byrd is the word.
I trying to remember
when he’s made a play on a throw to home plate. He seriously drops way too many of those.
Jeff from Cleveland wrote- I've figured out the moral of the story: Stay in school. Wade: 3 years at Marquette, Bosh: 1 year at Georgia Tech, the kid from Akron: no college. The most educated guy convinced his dumber friends to come play on his team for less money.
he learned from Michael Barrett
I seem to recall Barrett muffing many good throws to the plate
Carlos Silva lemonade: made from freshly squeezed Milton Bradley lemons. -- the Jim Hendry kook book.
Barrett's offense was supposed to outweigh his defensive deficiencies
It didn’t work out that way, but Barrett’s human deficiencies also apparently didn’t help him.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jul 17, 2010 5:17 PM CDT up reply actions
Barrett did have that low "baseball IQ."
similar to what we have all accused Cedeno of possessing. Some guys, no matter how much talent they have, aren’t good at making split second decisions in the heat of the game.
Carlos Silva lemonade: made from freshly squeezed Milton Bradley lemons. -- the Jim Hendry kook book.
Cedeno might have baseball IQ.
But he’s still a moron
A-well-a Byrd, Byrd, Byrd, well the Byrd is the word.
I said, like Barrett, Cedeno had a LOW baseball IQ.
maybe I wasn’t clear (maybe I have low BCB IQ).
Carlos Silva lemonade: made from freshly squeezed Milton Bradley lemons. -- the Jim Hendry kook book.
No you're fine I misread that.
Skipped right over that “low” word. My bad.
Nevertheless. They are not smart players.
A-well-a Byrd, Byrd, Byrd, well the Byrd is the word.
I think Cedeno has a low IQ, period
Still the single dumbest player in baseball, IMHO.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jul 17, 2010 5:26 PM CDT up reply actions
Aaron Miles doesn't count anymore?
I didn't believe it last August, but it turns out that love survives.
Mount Washington conquered July 5, 2010
State high point count: 3/50
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Jul 17, 2010 9:09 PM CDT up reply actions
Not dumb, just not good.
And for MIs lacking in baseball smarts, I will always maintain the Blauser Standard.
"Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have?" -Frank Chance
"If [Ruth] had [called his shot], I would have knocked him down with the next pitch." -Charlie Root
Have a slight disagreement with you here.
And I know I’ll regret saying this, but Miles would not have our contempt as much as he does (from me as well) if he had not chosen our team to have his career worst year for his highest career salary. I don’t know that he will ever have a decent season as an everyday player again, but his performance this year shows he has limited range as a 2B, but still has an ability to hit more than what he showed with us for sure.
"The ones who want to achieve and win championships motivate themselves." - Da Coach
by Sandberg's evil twin on Jul 18, 2010 2:26 PM CDT up reply actions
Apparently, he was having marital troubles last season
Which detracted from his ability to concentrate. Now, we’ve had players who have gone through family issues lately (Dempster and Lee, specifically), and it did affect their on-field performance. However, Dempster and Lee played through it and managed to finish off those seasons (2009 and 2007, respectively) with respectable numbers. Miles just sank further and further into the quagmire and showed no ability and little desire to turn it around.
It is understandable (and forgivable) if a player has extraordinary off-the-field issues that drag down his performance on the field, but Miles just seemed to quit on the team. That’s a totally different problem, and one that should have led to his release much sooner than it actually happened.
"Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have?" -Frank Chance
"If [Ruth] had [called his shot], I would have knocked him down with the next pitch." -Charlie Root
Well sure he should have been released earlier.
His salary though made it so that wasn’t gonna happen. I sure wish he would have been…seems similar in many ways to Grablow.
"The ones who want to achieve and win championships motivate themselves." - Da Coach
by Sandberg's evil twin on Jul 18, 2010 3:14 PM CDT up reply actions
I don't even know.
All I know is today’s drop was one of the things that cost them the ballgame
A-well-a Byrd, Byrd, Byrd, well the Byrd is the word.
Another fundamental
play that cost ’em a win.
Jeff from Cleveland wrote- I've figured out the moral of the story: Stay in school. Wade: 3 years at Marquette, Bosh: 1 year at Georgia Tech, the kid from Akron: no college. The most educated guy convinced his dumber friends to come play on his team for less money.
Soto's millions...
notsomuch considering he only made $575k last year. Yes, he should have made the play, but let’s not pile on him by lumping him in with the rest of the overpaid, overrated and overused bunglers on this team. Soto’s play isn’t any worse than Lee or Theriot’s baserunning blunders and they happen far more than defensive-miscues from our catcher, who’s hitting better than any catcher in the league while languishing in the 7th or 8th place in our lineup.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Just North of Wrigley Field
by jameslcrockett on Jul 18, 2010 10:13 AM CDT up reply actions
What you say makes sense.
But I don’t think he’s shown an ability to play catcher well defensively in clutch situations. Lou might do better to play him as often as most 1st string catchers and sub Hill in defensively at the end of a game. That may or may not work, but it seems a better strategy than losing Soto’s bat or counting on Soto late in the game for awhile.
"The ones who want to achieve and win championships motivate themselves." - Da Coach
by Sandberg's evil twin on Jul 18, 2010 2:30 PM CDT up reply actions
I have no problem with...
Koyie Hill getting some innings late in games, but Soto is still a “young” catcher. I’d rather have him working out any “shortcomings” in a lost season. I agree that I’d rather have improved defense if they will continue to bat Soto in 7th or 8th… but if they were using him correctly higher in the lineup, his defense (which isn’t horrible to begin with) would be a non-factor.
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Just North of Wrigley Field
by jameslcrockett on Jul 18, 2010 10:50 PM CDT up reply actions
I just finished watching the game (via the DVR).
There should be a shout out to Castro, not just for his double (that led to the run) but for that unbelievable play up the middle for the third out in the 9th. This miserable loss could have been a 6-1 defeat.
As for me, I will still watch the Cubs whenever I can, but it just seems to me that our mediocre fielding (except for Byrd, Colvin & Castro) coupled with a lack of clutch hitting and a manager who makes lots of bad decisions means that we will set epic records for losses in quality starts and losses in one run games.
The trend is not our friend. Even in the wins on Thurs & Fri these same trends were surfacing.
I love the Cubs, but sell whatever contracts and weak links we can and prepare for 2011 with a deeper and younger team.
Carlos Silva lemonade: made from freshly squeezed Milton Bradley lemons. -- the Jim Hendry kook book.
Well said. It is the right course of action.
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by BrewCrew'sPrinceofDarkness on Jul 17, 2010 5:13 PM CDT up reply actions
I was just hoping for
A small high in the way of a Cubs win in what is most likely a lost season. It’s very hot here (Ithaca, NY), and I just wanted to listen to the end of the game with Pat and Ron while gently falling asleep on my couch. Instead, I got kicked in the groin and walloped on the head. There are losses and there are LOSSES. This was a deflating LOSS big-time.
"All I'm asking for is what I want." -- Ricky Henderson
I'm surprised Ron didn't have a heart attack with that one.
The poor man. This team is killing him.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
I know. I said a while back that this might be the team to actually kill him.
Sigh
A-well-a Byrd, Byrd, Byrd, well the Byrd is the word.
I now agree with "blowing this up"...
In order for this team to get back in it, they need to put together a winning streak of 7 or 8 games…not ONCE, but, multiple times. It can’t be done with this team. Let’s be realistic here…the only run they got was on a TOOTBLAN play that never happened. Castro should have NEVER went to third, thus NO suicide squeeze…if he’d have gotten thrown out at 3rd we’d still be ripping on him.
Also, why does Soto and Rothchild keep going out to talk with Marmol? It looks like it upsets him more than helps. If he’s gonna blow it, let him blow it on his terms.
We could have won the 1st 3 games of this series against the defending NL champs, but, now we have to face arguably one of the best pitchers in the game…on national TV …on an ESPN Sunday night game. Not good.
Ron Santo - 8,143 ABs, .277 BA; 342 HR; 1331 RBI = NO Hall of Fame?
Brooks Robinson - 10,654 ABs, .267 BA; 268 HR; 1357 RBI = Hall of Fame.
Any more questions ?
I disagree with the running decision by Castro.
As a SS, he knew that when Rollins moved to his left, that he would have a difficult angle for getting a good throw to third base without it hitting Casstro in the back or head. I think Castro made the decision to run once he knew Rollins was moving to his left
Carlos Silva lemonade: made from freshly squeezed Milton Bradley lemons. -- the Jim Hendry kook book.
OT: Can anyone help me with this?
Cubs athentic jerseys are wayy too expensive for me right now. I’m looking to get a Ryno jersey… do Cubs jerseys go on sale/have a discount at all in the offseason??
A-well-a Byrd, Byrd, Byrd, well the Byrd is the word.
Depends on where you're looking
Wrigleyville Sports or Cubs World will have replica jerseys that would do just fine right now. Since Sandberg is a HOF/currenttly in the organization his jersey won’t ever be on clearance, even in the off season. Stay away from anything on ebay due to the knock off danger unless it’s a known, verifiable vendor.
"When they signed Fukudome, I knew they were trying to get me fired". - Ron Santo, January, 2008
Yea I gotcha. I don't buy jerseys off of eBay. Majority of those are scams
That’s where I was looking too—-CubWorld and Wrigleyville. I’m not big on the new replica style, but we’ll see. Thanks for the heads up.
A-well-a Byrd, Byrd, Byrd, well the Byrd is the word.
Clearance jerseys...
…… are like Wood, Spellcheck, Harden, Bradley, etc. You get the idea.
"When they signed Fukudome, I knew they were trying to get me fired". - Ron Santo, January, 2008
Yea I know. I was thinking about grabbing a Kerry Wood jersey
since the guy is forever a Cub.
A-well-a Byrd, Byrd, Byrd, well the Byrd is the word.
Yeah, the mishandle was bad and the loss is tough, but
I saw a team with some energy and a “je ne sais que” I hadn’t seen earlier this season.
It was going to be my favorite game of the year
Now my least favorite. I came straight from the airport for that.
"Lou Piniella's been a great manager for a long time and I stand by him completely"
Look at it this way
You could have taken your time and gotten there in the sixth inning and not missed anything.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jul 17, 2010 5:36 PM CDT up reply actions
Ugh-My poor husband was at yet another really bad game.
This is about the 4th really horrid one he’s attended this year. He’s not home yet. When he called saying he was on his way, he sounded pretty upset. Said there were a lot of Phillie fans which evidently made it worse. I hope he’s taking this OK.
"Fasten those seatbelts!"-Pat Hughes
Two words: Road Rage.
Take the keys away when he gets home…
We have met the enemy and they are us! ~ Walt Kelly, Pogo, 1971
I can vouch for there being lots of Phillies fans.
By the end of the game, it sounded like a Cubs road game. Never heard that much noise from visiting fans at Wrigley Field, not even from Cardinals or White Sox fans.
I’m trying again tomorrow night, to bring back the Cubs karma.
And yes, there were so many fans from Philadelphia … I nearly got into it with one of them. Long story, should not be repeated here. It involves some stupidity on my part. I’m not proud of it.
I didn't believe it last August, but it turns out that love survives.
Mount Washington conquered July 5, 2010
State high point count: 3/50
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Jul 17, 2010 5:43 PM CDT up reply actions
Philly fans
Can be intense, but hey sounds like you made it to home base without injury or arrest. Sounds like you did ok.
"Ask Dad. He'll know. And on the off chance he doesn't, he'll make something up"
Most of them were nice to talk to.
I would guess as many as 12,000 Phillies fans were there. The only time I’ve seen more visiting fans at Wrigley is games against the Cardinals and White Sox.
I didn't believe it last August, but it turns out that love survives.
Mount Washington conquered July 5, 2010
State high point count: 3/50
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Jul 17, 2010 5:48 PM CDT up reply actions
Wow
Lota fans, sounds like alot may have been in your section too. Hard too keep your cool when surrounded by that. May not be proud of what happend but man, I probably would have been in the same boat.
"Ask Dad. He'll know. And on the off chance he doesn't, he'll make something up"
He's home now.
Says the fans in front of him were really obnoxious and taking pictures with their backs to the field and giving Cub fans the finger. Ugh. Glad I wasn’t there. I’m sure I would have ended up saying something I wasn’t proud of either.
"Fasten those seatbelts!"-Pat Hughes
Wow, where was he sitting?
I didn’t see that. In fact, I didn’t have Phillies fans anywhere near me doing that.
I didn't believe it last August, but it turns out that love survives.
Mount Washington conquered July 5, 2010
State high point count: 3/50
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Jul 17, 2010 6:11 PM CDT up reply actions
Ah I see.
I was in section 233, so I was more along the RF side.
I also saw something very scary-looking today.
That hard-hit foul ball off Rollins’ bat in the eighth inning hit some poor fan just above the Phillies dugout. The ball ended up getting caught by fans in the lower rows of the terrace reserved section there.
The fans down below began waving for people to come, and I thought the fan had been knocked out cold. Everyone around me thought that. It turns out they wanted the fans in the TR section to give the fan who got nailed the ball.
In that circumstance, you use your hands not so much to catch the ball. Instead, you use your hands for self-defense.
I didn't believe it last August, but it turns out that love survives.
Mount Washington conquered July 5, 2010
State high point count: 3/50
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Jul 17, 2010 6:22 PM CDT up reply actions
Didn't make it to any of those games.
I didn't believe it last August, but it turns out that love survives.
Mount Washington conquered July 5, 2010
State high point count: 3/50
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Jul 17, 2010 7:42 PM CDT up reply actions
Be a great wife
Have a scotch on the rocks ready when he gets home.
"Ask Dad. He'll know. And on the off chance he doesn't, he'll make something up"
In a skimpy nurse's uniform
"When they signed Fukudome, I knew they were trying to get me fired". - Ron Santo, January, 2008
Oh man
Now thats an awesome wife!
"Ask Dad. He'll know. And on the off chance he doesn't, he'll make something up"
Poor guy walked into a firestorm instead
with me yelling at my bum 18 yr. old kids to get a job. They’ve asked me to shell out cash for their fun and games one too many times this summer. Guess this game got to me even more than him.
We are sharing a couple beers now.
"Fasten those seatbelts!"-Pat Hughes
Your children play for the Cubs?
I didn't believe it last August, but it turns out that love survives.
Mount Washington conquered July 5, 2010
State high point count: 3/50
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Jul 17, 2010 6:25 PM CDT up reply actions
i always wanted my wife to come to bed just wearing one of these
closest she got was an all pink one and she never wore it to bed .. guess the marriage really is over now, huh …
Blue mountains high .. Blue valleys low
I don't know which way we shall go ..
One summer dream .. one summer dream ..
coda
ELO, 1975
The problem is she would have to hop before she got into bed
(This story was produced by BCPDnewservice. Our motto: If you don’t like this story then suck it!)
by BrewCrew'sPrinceofDarkness on Jul 17, 2010 6:41 PM CDT up reply actions
dude .. you don't know what just put in my mind ..
and you owe me a new LCD screen for spitting up all over this thing
i hope my next wife is that frisky
Blue mountains high .. Blue valleys low
I don't know which way we shall go ..
One summer dream .. one summer dream ..
coda
ELO, 1975
This is my next wife
(This story was produced by BCPDnewservice. Our motto: If you don’t like this story then suck it!)
by BrewCrew'sPrinceofDarkness on Jul 17, 2010 7:10 PM CDT up reply actions
she looks like she needs discipline
"Wait, are you saying I'm a sunshine-pumping, koolaid-drinking, Soriano-loving, rainbow-rising, unicorn-riding, double-clutching, Sweet Lou-backing, Hendry-supporting, hey hey whaddya saying, Cubs are going all the waying, glass is overflowing, Rothschild is all-knowing, Cubs fan? - ballhawk
I feel truly sorry for you if that's the truth.
I didn't believe it last August, but it turns out that love survives.
Mount Washington conquered July 5, 2010
State high point count: 3/50
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Jul 17, 2010 7:46 PM CDT up reply actions
Because he'll never measure up to Han?
"Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have?" -Frank Chance
"If [Ruth] had [called his shot], I would have knocked him down with the next pitch." -Charlie Root
That's just all kinds of awesome.
"The ones who want to achieve and win championships motivate themselves." - Da Coach
by Sandberg's evil twin on Jul 18, 2010 3:11 PM CDT up reply actions
Boy, I can't WAIT for my new 58" HDTV and Direct TV with MLB Extra Innings to be installed Tuesday.
Then I can watch ALL this GREAT PLAY by the Cubs and their upcoming run into the 2010 playoffs in HD!
Sigh.
We have met the enemy and they are us! ~ Walt Kelly, Pogo, 1971
Think Bears.............
"When they signed Fukudome, I knew they were trying to get me fired". - Ron Santo, January, 2008
Well no....
But, um, once this is all over, you’ll have a really great TV for football?
"When they signed Fukudome, I knew they were trying to get me fired". - Ron Santo, January, 2008
OTOH...
…. given the way the season is going, it isn’t too late to change your mind about EI and wait for football…….
"When they signed Fukudome, I knew they were trying to get me fired". - Ron Santo, January, 2008
Well, we're going to try it for the balance of the season to see how we like it.
Maybe our watching the games in HD will be that ‘catalyst’ for the playoff push.
We have met the enemy and they are us! ~ Walt Kelly, Pogo, 1971
You can watch the 2010 playoffs on your new HDTV.
Of that, I am certain.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
lol. True.
Maybe the Tigers will be there!
We have met the enemy and they are us! ~ Walt Kelly, Pogo, 1971
Let's hope so.
The silence after the vuvus stopped has been awesome.
"The ones who want to achieve and win championships motivate themselves." - Da Coach
by Sandberg's evil twin on Jul 18, 2010 2:35 PM CDT up reply actions
....da bears, da bears, da bears....
bullsss bullsss bullssss
maybe hawks again?
A-well-a Byrd, Byrd, Byrd, well the Byrd is the word.
The first eight innings were nice to watch.
That ninth inning was painful. The guy next to me could see it happening. He said something about Marmol’s mechanics being wrong. Apparently, he saw Marmol coming out of his windup with the ball still behind his arse.
By the time the game ended, I felt as if I was in Philadelphia. There were that many Phillies fans there. A loud chant of “Let’s go Phillies” started near my section during the rally.
Just disheartening.
I didn't believe it last August, but it turns out that love survives.
Mount Washington conquered July 5, 2010
State high point count: 3/50
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Jul 17, 2010 5:38 PM CDT reply actions
It sounded pretty loud
Reminded me of when Tigers fans invaded Wrigley in 2006.
Wish you could have had a better result, VCF, but hope you had a good time.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jul 17, 2010 5:48 PM CDT up reply actions
I'm going to try again tomorrow night.
At least I’ll be spared the “insight” of Joe Morgan.
I didn't believe it last August, but it turns out that love survives.
Mount Washington conquered July 5, 2010
State high point count: 3/50
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Jul 17, 2010 5:49 PM CDT up reply actions
I almost wrote that.
But you own the trademark on it.
I didn't believe it last August, but it turns out that love survives.
Mount Washington conquered July 5, 2010
State high point count: 3/50
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Jul 17, 2010 6:00 PM CDT up reply actions
I would charge you no royalties
should you decide to use it.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jul 17, 2010 6:05 PM CDT up reply actions
Nope.
Wednesday day.
I didn't believe it last August, but it turns out that love survives.
Mount Washington conquered July 5, 2010
State high point count: 3/50
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Jul 17, 2010 6:54 PM CDT up reply actions
Can you make it on Wednesday?
I didn't believe it last August, but it turns out that love survives.
Mount Washington conquered July 5, 2010
State high point count: 3/50
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Jul 17, 2010 7:47 PM CDT up reply actions
I might be going back tomorrow if you can make it.
However, I know how things will go.
The Cubs will lose if I go, and win if I don’t go.
I didn't believe it last August, but it turns out that love survives.
Mount Washington conquered July 5, 2010
State high point count: 3/50
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Jul 17, 2010 9:14 PM CDT up reply actions
None taken.
n/t
I didn't believe it last August, but it turns out that love survives.
Mount Washington conquered July 5, 2010
State high point count: 3/50
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Jul 17, 2010 9:34 PM CDT up reply actions
I was talking to a Phillies fan afterwards.
And other Cubs fans.
They all said this was the most Phillies fans they’d ever seen in Chicago.
I didn't believe it last August, but it turns out that love survives.
Mount Washington conquered July 5, 2010
State high point count: 3/50
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Jul 17, 2010 6:03 PM CDT up reply actions
Yea VCF I was there today too and was very surprised at the Philly turnout
A-well-a Byrd, Byrd, Byrd, well the Byrd is the word.
all things being equal
I think the Philly fans thought higher of the Cubs’ futures then we did as they chose to follow their team.
Had the Cubs played to their potential this year, this series would be far more important to their attempt to take the NL again then it actually is. No one counted on the NL being as screwy as it is this year. It’s still up for grabs.
Blue mountains high .. Blue valleys low
I don't know which way we shall go ..
One summer dream .. one summer dream ..
coda
ELO, 1975
slightly confused by your first sentence. maybe i'm just not reading it right.
as for your second paragraph. true. very true. but they still have lost the first two to a less than average baseball team and can potentially lose 3/4
A-well-a Byrd, Byrd, Byrd, well the Byrd is the word.
I've seen Phillies fans talk online about how they're traveling more.
Apparently once they even half-took over New Yankee Stadium for a series.
Yeah, that was last year in Interleague play.
I talked to some Phillies fans who were at that game about it. There were so many Phillies fans there that the Yankees fans couldn’t drown them out.
I didn't believe it last August, but it turns out that love survives.
Mount Washington conquered July 5, 2010
State high point count: 3/50
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Jul 17, 2010 9:34 PM CDT up reply actions
I didn't see the game, but I did listen to it. Here's my take:
Lou is managing like he’s in the minor leagues and not fighting for a spot in the playoffs.
Minor league managers stick with players who obviously don’t ‘have it’ on a particular day so that the coaching staff (and ultimately the parent club) can see if the player has what it takes to work through problems. I understand the approach. They want to know BEFORE they invest multi-million dollar long term contracts if a player can’t cut it in the clutch.
I can even understand this approach (to a point) at the MLB level EARLY in the season.
But now? It’s mid July. Your team is in 4th place and 9-10 games out with no sustained pulse. There is NO ROOM FOR ERROR. They cannot give anymore games away and that’s exactly what they did. There was no good reason to leave Marmol in there today (despite yesterday’s excellence) when he clearly didn’t ‘have it’.
Two steps forward, one step back and then two steps back and one forward for this team. It’s like trying to run in quicksand.
Lou’s back to the LWDYWMTD mode.
“What do I want you to do”, Lou?
Lead. Act like you really give a damn.
We have met the enemy and they are us! ~ Walt Kelly, Pogo, 1971
bullshit
This was on Marmol. With Carlos, it is never as simple as him “having it” or not. He sometimes walks a couple of guys before striking out the side. You are over-simplifying it, with the advantage of hindsight.
"Wait, are you saying I'm a sunshine-pumping, koolaid-drinking, Soriano-loving, rainbow-rising, unicorn-riding, double-clutching, Sweet Lou-backing, Hendry-supporting, hey hey whaddya saying, Cubs are going all the waying, glass is overflowing, Rothschild is all-knowing, Cubs fan? - ballhawk
by vonde6 on Jul 17, 2010 5:53 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Very true
Marmol simply blew up today, the way virtually every single closer in baseball does from time to time.
That’s really about it.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jul 17, 2010 5:55 PM CDT up reply actions
And even with that,
he could have gotten out of it and the Cubs could have won if Soto makes a makeable play.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jul 17, 2010 5:57 PM CDT up reply actions
But here's the problem with that: the Cubs often can't play through and overcome bad breaks.
Today was a prime example. They let them consume the team, then throw up their hands and say “What can you do?”.
We have met the enemy and they are us! ~ Walt Kelly, Pogo, 1971
Or the fact they are not that good.
OH NO THAT’S NOT IT AT ALL.
(This story was produced by BCPDnewservice. Our motto: If you don’t like this story then suck it!)
by BrewCrew'sPrinceofDarkness on Jul 17, 2010 6:33 PM CDT up reply actions
Marmol and Soto are not good?
I disagree.
I’m just throwing it out there, not necessarily saying it’s so.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jul 17, 2010 6:46 PM CDT up reply actions
....
(This story was produced by BCPDnewservice. Our motto: If you don’t like this story then suck it!)
by BrewCrew'sPrinceofDarkness on Jul 17, 2010 7:01 PM CDT up reply actions
Good point NBF.
Brew Crew is obsessed today. I know the season has sucked, the team frequently has sucked as you say…but this game was not an indication of that. Marmol has been solid this year. And Soto is good. Shit happens sometimes, this is a loss that happens to the best of teams. You would have played Marmol in the 9th, anyone would. And given Marmol’s history this year, most managers would have kept him in there after two walks as well. Come on.
"The ones who want to achieve and win championships motivate themselves." - Da Coach
by Sandberg's evil twin on Jul 18, 2010 2:41 PM CDT up reply actions
so you're saying they are giant choke artists?
AWESOME!
by HuskerCorner on Jul 17, 2010 10:55 PM CDT up reply actions
I think the Cubs in general, for a long time,
might be giant choke artists, unfortunately.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jul 18, 2010 1:45 AM CDT up reply actions
You're letting your frustration for the season spill into judgment about 1 game.
"The ones who want to achieve and win championships motivate themselves." - Da Coach
by Sandberg's evil twin on Jul 18, 2010 2:37 PM CDT up reply actions
I wish I could have phrased this
as succiently and as elegantly as you just did, SET. Nicely done.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jul 18, 2010 11:55 PM CDT up reply actions
Well, that's the great thing about hindsight.
And as I said, I didn’t SEE the game, but listening to it, there appeared to be several opportunities for Lou to take out a struggling reliever. There’s no law against it.
We have met the enemy and they are us! ~ Walt Kelly, Pogo, 1971
but Zeke
The only guy in our bullpen that I would bring in after Marmol put two men on base would be Marshall, and he was already out of the picture. Cashner put his first two men on base the last time he pitched. I seriously have to ask you, at that point, what you would do. I think the best bet was still for Marmol to pitch out of it.
"Wait, are you saying I'm a sunshine-pumping, koolaid-drinking, Soriano-loving, rainbow-rising, unicorn-riding, double-clutching, Sweet Lou-backing, Hendry-supporting, hey hey whaddya saying, Cubs are going all the waying, glass is overflowing, Rothschild is all-knowing, Cubs fan? - ballhawk
It hardly would have been the first time
Marmol walked a guy or two and got out of it. And even this time, he almost did, anyway.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jul 17, 2010 6:47 PM CDT up reply actions
That's exactly right, JSB...
that’s why Marmol is NOT a good closer. It seems like every time he seems unhittable, he has a game like today..It’s like he starts believing everything written and said about him.
Too many walks. Hell, after all the walks and the wild pitch I was expecting a hit batter…he’s slippin’. Yeah, Soto blew it, but, it shoulda never gotten to that point.
Ron Santo - 8,143 ABs, .277 BA; 342 HR; 1331 RBI = NO Hall of Fame?
Brooks Robinson - 10,654 ABs, .267 BA; 268 HR; 1357 RBI = Hall of Fame.
Any more questions ?
you can still be a good closer
While reducing your fans to nervous wrecks
"Wait, are you saying I'm a sunshine-pumping, koolaid-drinking, Soriano-loving, rainbow-rising, unicorn-riding, double-clutching, Sweet Lou-backing, Hendry-supporting, hey hey whaddya saying, Cubs are going all the waying, glass is overflowing, Rothschild is all-knowing, Cubs fan? - ballhawk
I respect your opinions and yes, Marmol has looked terrible in the past and wiggled off the hook and still gotten the save.
And next time, he could pitch “lights out.”
My bottom line is that it’s easy to sit on your hands in the dugout and say: “That’s my closer. Period. This loss will be on Marmol.”
But when the closer clearly doesn’t have it that day (and it’s the manager’s job to recognize that), don’t just HOPE he’ll get lucky and get out of it. This isn’t “A” ball anymore. It’s the MAJORS.
You’re the manager. You can affect change. You don’t have to be a bystander (or bysitter in Lou’s case).
Lou did have other options. Now not only did the Cubs lose the game, but leaving Marmol in to struggle for as LONG as he did rendered CM unavailable for tonight’s game and shook his confidence even further.
I guess I hold the manager to a little higher standard given that they cannot pitch, catch, run, field or hit for the team. They’re there to manage.
I could have sat in the dugout and watched along with the other 40,000 people there and millions of others watching and listening to the game – and do nothing…
for a lot less than Lou’s making, I might add.
We have met the enemy and they are us! ~ Walt Kelly, Pogo, 1971
He looked like he didn't have it that day other times when he
wriggled off the hook as you said. It’s the MAJORS? well yes it’s the majors…and in the majors, he has walked batters then regained focus. He’s had a good year even so, definitely been maddening at times, and he is your best closer like it or not. Sure, I agree that perhaps he should have been pulled an batter earlier, but to say he should have been pulled after walking two batters in the MAJORS is just hindsight speaking and not Lou’s fault at ll.
"The ones who want to achieve and win championships motivate themselves." - Da Coach
by Sandberg's evil twin on Jul 18, 2010 2:46 PM CDT up reply actions
Respectfully, I didn't say that.
I never said he should be pulled after two walks. Others said that.
I thought he should have been pulled after the Polanco single.
Just my opinion.
We have met the enemy and they are us! ~ Walt Kelly, Pogo, 1971
Happens all the time
That’s why guys like Rivera are HOF shoo-ins. Very, very few of them exist.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jul 17, 2010 8:24 PM CDT up reply actions
Yea just blame the manager for Marmol and Soto and lack of hitting.
100% NOT on Lou today IMO. Sorry.
A-well-a Byrd, Byrd, Byrd, well the Byrd is the word.
by mikegncb34 on Jul 17, 2010 7:01 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Rec'd
Even Al spared us that refrain today, and I think that it’s already part of his game recap template.
"Wait, are you saying I'm a sunshine-pumping, koolaid-drinking, Soriano-loving, rainbow-rising, unicorn-riding, double-clutching, Sweet Lou-backing, Hendry-supporting, hey hey whaddya saying, Cubs are going all the waying, glass is overflowing, Rothschild is all-knowing, Cubs fan? - ballhawk
Haha I know it. Al is definitely not a Lou fan.
But today….not on Lou
A-well-a Byrd, Byrd, Byrd, well the Byrd is the word.
Can Lou be blamed for leaving a struggling closer out there that long?
We all know that when Marmol does not have it, it gets ugly real quick….
Well, yeah
It’s not like the Phils did anything base-clearing in that inning. It was chip, chip, chip, and put up 4. I’d have wanted Marmol out at 2-1, but it’s a 2-out situation. You don’t yank your closer when he’s one out away from getting out of it until it’s hopeless. Eventually, it became hopeless.
"Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have?" -Frank Chance
"If [Ruth] had [called his shot], I would have knocked him down with the next pitch." -Charlie Root
yeah, it's on Lou...
He’s the guy who puts together a lineup with Theriot on top and Soto and Castro on the bottom and expects his team to score more than 1 run. Soto is by far not the only reason they lost this game… same for Marmol.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Just North of Wrigley Field
by jameslcrockett on Jul 18, 2010 10:19 AM CDT up reply actions
Better luck tomorrow, VCF
"Wait, are you saying I'm a sunshine-pumping, koolaid-drinking, Soriano-loving, rainbow-rising, unicorn-riding, double-clutching, Sweet Lou-backing, Hendry-supporting, hey hey whaddya saying, Cubs are going all the waying, glass is overflowing, Rothschild is all-knowing, Cubs fan? - ballhawk
Why wasn't the tying run unearned?
Didn’t Soto drop the ball and therefore be charged with an error?
Not that it mattered.
"Hey-Hey! Home Run! Attaboy Ronnie!" ~ Jack Brickhouse
Soto wasn't charged with an error
That’s fairly typical on a play at the plate — unless the throw is between the catcher’s shoulders, not handling it is considered to be an “ordinary effort” play and no error is charged.
Also, if he (or Colvin) would have been charged with an error for letting the ball get to the backstop and giving the other runners extra bases, the run (and all the runs) would still be earned.
"I've never complained about it. I'm thankful to have a jersey." Mark DeRosa, 22 Aug 2007
Soto quote...
Plain & simple I missed it. Nobody’s responsible for this game other than me.
Somebody give that man a hug.
"A dream you dream alone is only a dream. A dream you dream together is reality." John Lennon
Soto should not take all the blame on himself.
Not his fault he had to make that play.
I didn't believe it last August, but it turns out that love survives.
Mount Washington conquered July 5, 2010
State high point count: 3/50
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Jul 17, 2010 6:10 PM CDT up reply actions
There were in the line up today NINE men who had this game in their hands
Several of them had several opportunities to do more than eke out a run by a suicide squeeze and rely upon that to carry them. Base runners were sloppy and should have not become casualties to the Phillies.
So we can cuss and scream, and rightly so, when Marmol and Soto royally melted down in the roles they were to fulfill. You walk 5 men in a one run game with your closer holding that lead, the inevitable will happen. But so did everyone else who was supposed to do their thing. This was a game the whole lineup should have freaking won.
Another game flushed. But there’s more baseball tommorrow. If we win tommorrow, we’ll have taken 3 games out of 4 from the National League champs. That will be good news that no amount of guffawing by the ledgejumpers and the snarks who make their cynical visits on the threads will dismiss.
GO CUBS.
Blue mountains high .. Blue valleys low
I don't know which way we shall go ..
One summer dream .. one summer dream ..
coda
ELO, 1975
Let Soto and Marmol take the blame
As long as they shake it off and come back to win tomorrow. I don’t think that it hurts to let somebody take responsibility.
"Wait, are you saying I'm a sunshine-pumping, koolaid-drinking, Soriano-loving, rainbow-rising, unicorn-riding, double-clutching, Sweet Lou-backing, Hendry-supporting, hey hey whaddya saying, Cubs are going all the waying, glass is overflowing, Rothschild is all-knowing, Cubs fan? - ballhawk
....
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by BrewCrew'sPrinceofDarkness on Jul 17, 2010 6:38 PM CDT up reply actions
Calling Jenny Craig
Your experiment fell off the table
Blue mountains high .. Blue valleys low
I don't know which way we shall go ..
One summer dream .. one summer dream ..
coda
ELO, 1975
That's true.
I’m still glad like goon he said it. Better to hear that and hope he will learn from it.
"The ones who want to achieve and win championships motivate themselves." - Da Coach
by Sandberg's evil twin on Jul 18, 2010 2:48 PM CDT up reply actions
...
(This story was produced by BCPDnewservice. Our motto: If you don’t like this story then suck it!)
by BrewCrew'sPrinceofDarkness on Jul 17, 2010 6:28 PM CDT up reply actions
are those real men or vintage Masters Of The Universe dolls from the 1980's?
Blue mountains high .. Blue valleys low
I don't know which way we shall go ..
One summer dream .. one summer dream ..
coda
ELO, 1975
icky
"Wait, are you saying I'm a sunshine-pumping, koolaid-drinking, Soriano-loving, rainbow-rising, unicorn-riding, double-clutching, Sweet Lou-backing, Hendry-supporting, hey hey whaddya saying, Cubs are going all the waying, glass is overflowing, Rothschild is all-knowing, Cubs fan? - ballhawk
My eyes!!!!!
I didn't believe it last August, but it turns out that love survives.
Mount Washington conquered July 5, 2010
State high point count: 3/50
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Jul 17, 2010 6:34 PM CDT up reply actions
Don't you guys get into group hugs with muscle men?
"A dream you dream alone is only a dream. A dream you dream together is reality." John Lennon
I'm the guy in the middle.
(This story was produced by BCPDnewservice. Our motto: If you don’t like this story then suck it!)
by BrewCrew'sPrinceofDarkness on Jul 17, 2010 6:44 PM CDT up reply actions
lol
only prob is those roid guys probably are impotent.
"The ones who want to achieve and win championships motivate themselves." - Da Coach
by Sandberg's evil twin on Jul 18, 2010 2:49 PM CDT up reply actions
I didn't mean to imply that there was anything wrong with that
It does look a little oily, though.
"Wait, are you saying I'm a sunshine-pumping, koolaid-drinking, Soriano-loving, rainbow-rising, unicorn-riding, double-clutching, Sweet Lou-backing, Hendry-supporting, hey hey whaddya saying, Cubs are going all the waying, glass is overflowing, Rothschild is all-knowing, Cubs fan? - ballhawk
Don't rock the boat.
"A dream you dream alone is only a dream. A dream you dream together is reality." John Lennon
A great throw from Colvin, but it was still hi
Blue mountains high .. Blue valleys low
I don't know which way we shall go ..
One summer dream .. one summer dream ..
coda
ELO, 1975
are you referring to Soto as being high?
the throw was fine. though the bounce did end up bouncing 12-18" too high, Soto had plenty of time to grab it and tag the runner out.
Carlos Silva lemonade: made from freshly squeezed Milton Bradley lemons. -- the Jim Hendry kook book.
A great throw from Colvin, but it was still Soto's to get
and the video is clear .. Schneider was dead meat. Sad. I don’t blame him as much as Marmol’s fail and the lineup ..
Blue mountains high .. Blue valleys low
I don't know which way we shall go ..
One summer dream .. one summer dream ..
coda
ELO, 1975
by cubnational on Jul 17, 2010 6:33 PM CDT reply actions 3 recs
Rec'd
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by BrewCrew'sPrinceofDarkness on Jul 17, 2010 6:39 PM CDT up reply actions
And now people know why I call him Meltdown Marmol
He remembered who he was.
RIP Ronnie James Dio (July 10, 1942 - May 16, 2010).
I like Cardiac Carlos better
Since he has far more outings where he threatens to blow it than outings where he actually does.
"Wait, are you saying I'm a sunshine-pumping, koolaid-drinking, Soriano-loving, rainbow-rising, unicorn-riding, double-clutching, Sweet Lou-backing, Hendry-supporting, hey hey whaddya saying, Cubs are going all the waying, glass is overflowing, Rothschild is all-knowing, Cubs fan? - ballhawk
Indeed.
As I told people, you catch the ball and then apply the tag.
It looked to me like Soto was trying to tag and took his eyes off the ball.
I didn't believe it last August, but it turns out that love survives.
Mount Washington conquered July 5, 2010
State high point count: 3/50
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Jul 17, 2010 6:42 PM CDT up reply actions
I blame LaTroy Hawkins.
A-well-a Byrd, Byrd, Byrd, well the Byrd is the word.
by mikegncb34 on Jul 17, 2010 7:03 PM CDT up reply actions 3 recs
Well said.
"Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have?" -Frank Chance
"If [Ruth] had [called his shot], I would have knocked him down with the next pitch." -Charlie Root
Horrid play from Soto, but 5 walks in 2/3 of an inning sure didn't help!
Nice job by Lou leaving Marmol out there until it was to late!
I wonder if he was in the clubhouse thinking the game was already over?
Marmol is no closer.
There…I said it.
And no…it’s not based on today. I’ve thought this for a couple years now. Today once again affirms it for me.
When he’s lights out, he’s still scary wild. And when he’s not, well he’s like he was today.
A real momentum killer.
Marmol is a fine closer.
It the Offense only scoring a run a game that is causing the heartburn.
(This story was produced by BCPDnewservice. Our motto: If you don’t like this story then suck it!)
by BrewCrew'sPrinceofDarkness on Jul 17, 2010 6:43 PM CDT up reply actions
Sorry...
Agree about the offense.
But beg to differ about Marmol. He just doesn’t have “it.”
If I were on the opposing team, I’d actually think “hey, Marmol’s in…anything can happen!”
So that makes him like
virtually ever closer in baseball not named “Mariano Rivera.”
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jul 17, 2010 6:48 PM CDT up reply actions
Or Eric Gange from 2002 -2004
(This story was produced by BCPDnewservice. Our motto: If you don’t like this story then suck it!)
by BrewCrew'sPrinceofDarkness on Jul 17, 2010 7:04 PM CDT up reply actions
Yesterday Marmol was the greats closer ever
Today he’s a goat. It’s just part of the jobs.
Did he suck today yes. It happens.
If the line up would score more than 1 run a game and/or our Manager had been awake to take him out before he poured the whole gas can on the fire the cubs would not have lost.
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by BrewCrew'sPrinceofDarkness on Jul 17, 2010 6:49 PM CDT up reply actions
nah, marmol is a closer.
"That's life, that's what all the people say.
You're riding high in April,
Shot down in May
But I know I'm gonna change that tune,
When I'm back on top, back on top in June."
- Big boy Frankie
by lexmarklover on Jul 17, 2010 7:00 PM CDT up reply actions
rolls eyes.
not exactly a bold statement today. Congratulations for stating that after Marmol had 5 walks in a game.
"The ones who want to achieve and win championships motivate themselves." - Da Coach
by Sandberg's evil twin on Jul 18, 2010 2:51 PM CDT up reply actions
Completely OT: New Sharktopus Trail
Enjoy. It will melt your mind.
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by BrewCrew'sPrinceofDarkness on Jul 17, 2010 7:18 PM CDT reply actions
Eric freakin' Roberts, man!
"Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have?" -Frank Chance
"If [Ruth] had [called his shot], I would have knocked him down with the next pitch." -Charlie Root
my IQ dropped about 50 points after watching that
Another one of the profoundly stupid shlockfests that SyFy trots out, trying to be edgy, funny, sexed up and “SF” all at once. I can’t even go there are how disgusting that channel is to me when it started out with such promise
But I will say this, Eric “Freakin” Roberts knew how to embody dark characters when he first started out. He was a well convincing sleaze in “Star 80” and was at his best in “Runaway Train.”
His bloodly confrontation of Jon Voight’s Manny is right up there with Brando’s “I could have been a contender” speech. Worth the look ..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g6OI_Ia5Qdg&feature=related
Simply put one of the greatest flicks of the past 30 years.
Blue mountains high .. Blue valleys low
I don't know which way we shall go ..
One summer dream .. one summer dream ..
coda
ELO, 1975
how sweet
would a 1-0 win have been.back to 10 games under.the sox dug themselves out but i cant see the cubs doing the same. the big hitters dont hit,the cubs dont win.simple. look for the cards or reds this oct.
I am in shock
I completely believed that if the Cubs were this bad for this long people would realize that the Cubs need to trade whoever they can to lower the payroll and build for the future, but I guess this bad is not bad enough for some folk! This is getting into crazy land, really… is there a probability the Cubs can make the playoffs? Of course. How big is this probability? Microscopic. What would any sensible person do? Make the future the priority and do all possible to build for it. Specially if you can understand that the Cubs have had the same systemic problems going back for a long time.
by Luis on Jul 17, 2010 7:49 PM CDT reply actions 1 recs
.9% isnt microscopic
its just really really really tiny
by jesus christos on Jul 17, 2010 7:53 PM CDT up reply actions
agree but based on
When MLB paychecks are handed out does it make a difference $$$ wise if they trade someone now or July 31st?
If there is no savings might as well just wait.
by cozmotaylor123 on Jul 17, 2010 7:54 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
Well
Teams pay more talent if they get a player for more time. That is a fact. So a team will probably pay more for Ted Lilly on July 1st than July 31st. If this team is really waiting until the deadline to make a decision to trade or not to trade we are really without hope.
Not to hard on the missed catch at the plate, but...
Is it normal for the catcher to leave his mask on there? Soto seems to do that a lot, but you would think it would be easier to handle throws from the outfield with the mask off.
Great point
I guess it comes down to personal preference. If it were me, I’d want that thing off my face ASAP. If Soto is confortable wearing it, he probably didn’t even think to take it off. But you would think that having the mask off would improve the overall field vision. 99 times out of 100, an MLB catcher makes that play easily. It’s just too bad Soto picked today to muff it…
Get 'em on, Get 'em over, Get 'em in!
Way to throw Soto under the bus, Lou...
I like the part where he calls Theriot “What’s his name”.
http://chicago.comcastsportsnet.com/pages/cubsvideo
Ron Santo - 8,143 ABs, .277 BA; 342 HR; 1331 RBI = NO Hall of Fame?
Brooks Robinson - 10,654 ABs, .267 BA; 268 HR; 1357 RBI = Hall of Fame.
Any more questions ?
That explains a lot.
I’d still rather see Fontenot out there at 2B.
I didn't believe it last August, but it turns out that love survives.
Mount Washington conquered July 5, 2010
State high point count: 3/50
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Jul 17, 2010 8:37 PM CDT up reply actions
I agree VCF. Fontenot has much more pop in his bat than Theriot. Why Piniella doesn't see that...
is beyond me. Gee, I wonder if Hill will be playing tomorrow night. It’ll be hard enough against Halladay, so, let’s see Lou put an automatic out in the line-up like Hill. That’ll help.
Ron Santo - 8,143 ABs, .277 BA; 342 HR; 1331 RBI = NO Hall of Fame?
Brooks Robinson - 10,654 ABs, .267 BA; 268 HR; 1357 RBI = Hall of Fame.
Any more questions ?
I've disagreed with a lot of your opinions.
But here I think you are spot on. Fonty deserves to platoon and taking out Soto with his bat will not help anything. Take him out late in the game with it tied or ahead if you must…I’d go along with that. But sitting him will just lose more games than it wins.
"The ones who want to achieve and win championships motivate themselves." - Da Coach
by Sandberg's evil twin on Jul 18, 2010 2:56 PM CDT up reply actions
It's a lot harder to make that defensive substitution decision with a catcher, though
Since we only carry two on the roster. You’re always going to be nervous about Hill getting hurt.
"Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have?" -Frank Chance
"If [Ruth] had [called his shot], I would have knocked him down with the next pitch." -Charlie Root
Soto still has room to improve
Hopefully he finds this motivating. He crawled under the bus himself.
"Wait, are you saying I'm a sunshine-pumping, koolaid-drinking, Soriano-loving, rainbow-rising, unicorn-riding, double-clutching, Sweet Lou-backing, Hendry-supporting, hey hey whaddya saying, Cubs are going all the waying, glass is overflowing, Rothschild is all-knowing, Cubs fan? - ballhawk
Yeah...Soto manned up. Gotta like that.
Ron Santo - 8,143 ABs, .277 BA; 342 HR; 1331 RBI = NO Hall of Fame?
Brooks Robinson - 10,654 ABs, .267 BA; 268 HR; 1357 RBI = Hall of Fame.
Any more questions ?
I agree on the "what's his name" part
You can just imagine Theriot tearing up as he watches this…“What’s happened between us, Lou?”
"Wait, are you saying I'm a sunshine-pumping, koolaid-drinking, Soriano-loving, rainbow-rising, unicorn-riding, double-clutching, Sweet Lou-backing, Hendry-supporting, hey hey whaddya saying, Cubs are going all the waying, glass is overflowing, Rothschild is all-knowing, Cubs fan? - ballhawk
"I got a new man Ryan. His name.. is Koyie."
by jesus christos on Jul 17, 2010 8:44 PM CDT up reply actions
"No, Lou. NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO"
"Wait, are you saying I'm a sunshine-pumping, koolaid-drinking, Soriano-loving, rainbow-rising, unicorn-riding, double-clutching, Sweet Lou-backing, Hendry-supporting, hey hey whaddya saying, Cubs are going all the waying, glass is overflowing, Rothschild is all-knowing, Cubs fan? - ballhawk
Thank God for Carlos Marmol...
His complete inability to find the strike zone has immediately cured me of the delusion that this team can make a run in the second half.
Props to Soto too for choking when it counted the most.
Now I can relax and enjoy the rest of the season from a comfortable distance.
I woulda loved to have heard...
Bob Brenly’s take on the Soto play. I think he woulda lost his mind. Just the other day he was saying how catchers would rather have the long hop than the short one. How they’re easier to handle. It’s just too bad, because, it woulda been a helluva way to end a ballgame and have a winning streak in tact…even if a small one.
Ron Santo - 8,143 ABs, .277 BA; 342 HR; 1331 RBI = NO Hall of Fame?
Brooks Robinson - 10,654 ABs, .267 BA; 268 HR; 1357 RBI = Hall of Fame.
Any more questions ?
You know what he would have said?
“PLAY THE GAME, come on!”
Blue mountains high .. Blue valleys low
I don't know which way we shall go ..
One summer dream .. one summer dream ..
coda
ELO, 1975
As opposed to Santo, who nearly dropped dead right there.
I thought I heard a Brant Brownish “Oh, NOOOOOOOOOOO!” out of him on the replay on WGN’s postgame show.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
I got that video somewhere .. can't get my hands on it
that was after the legendary Neifi short bullet pass 4 feet above Michael Barrett’s head in that UGLY Atlanta series .. have to look for that
M
Blue mountains high .. Blue valleys low
I don't know which way we shall go ..
One summer dream .. one summer dream ..
coda
ELO, 1975
by cubnational on Jul 18, 2010 10:03 AM CDT up reply actions
I feel for Ron.
But I would say after watching this season if it would affect him that much he shouldn’t be broadcasting and, by now of course one game shouldn’t. I also don’t really like talking about a guy having a heart attack with him being a diabetic and having so many health problems. Doesn’t seem great karma.
"The ones who want to achieve and win championships motivate themselves." - Da Coach
by Sandberg's evil twin on Jul 18, 2010 3:00 PM CDT up reply actions
Lil' dose of reality:
No team in the wild-card era has ever made the playoffs after reaching the All-Star break with a record as bad as the Royals (39-49, 10 games under .500, 10.5 games out).
From the latest Sports Illustrated, page 75. The Cubs aren’t any different: at the break the Cubs were 39-49, 9.5 games out.
"The riches of the game are in the thrills, not the money." --Ernie Banks
you hear that?
thats the sound of TJ jumping off a cliff
by jesus christos on Jul 17, 2010 9:29 PM CDT up reply actions
Its still our year!
Tom Ricketts knows there does not need to be any changes!
If anything JH and Lou need extentions for their fine work!
All 3 are completely amazing!
Of course they are not going to make the playoffs
But they should still show some pride and go out there to win every day. And sell off players if they can get good value in return.
"Wait, are you saying I'm a sunshine-pumping, koolaid-drinking, Soriano-loving, rainbow-rising, unicorn-riding, double-clutching, Sweet Lou-backing, Hendry-supporting, hey hey whaddya saying, Cubs are going all the waying, glass is overflowing, Rothschild is all-knowing, Cubs fan? - ballhawk
I know Marmol is the closer...but
as left handed as the Phils are I would have like to have seen Marshall stay in for the 9th
Revisionist history
and second-guessing has reached its height (or nadir, depending on how you look at it).
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jul 17, 2010 10:26 PM CDT up reply actions
In point of fact
Charlie Manuel did pinch-hit with a series of lefties in the top of the 9th. We briefly discussed it in the Game Thread.
"Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have?" -Frank Chance
"If [Ruth] had [called his shot], I would have knocked him down with the next pitch." -Charlie Root
So I guess if Lou had guessed Manuel would have used
three consecutive left-handed pinch-hitters in the ninth, staying with Marshall would have been smart.
Except Pat and Ron were saying Marshall has been more effective against righties than lefties.
Nice try, though.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jul 18, 2010 1:46 AM CDT up reply actions
No
If Lou had known that Manuel had 4 lefties left on his bench (which he should have), that Marmol had pitched the day before (which he did), and that Marmol does not do well on short rest (which he does – he gets very defensive about it), then he possibly could have foreseen a situation where another sly manager would attempt to create lefty-lefty matchups to gain an advantage (that’s the tune that Lou dances to, right?)
I’m not saying that Lou shouldn’t have used Marmol. I’m not saying that Lou should have kept Binky in there. I’m saying that asking “What if?” and “Why not?” is perfectly valid in this particular scenario. I’m also saying that watching 2 middling lefties come up in the pinch and do well against your stud closer should have been a warning sign. Lou missed that. Soto missed a ball, but Lou missed the entire point of Manuel’s moves. FFS, man – we’re on a blog (and I wasn’t even watching the game, just following along on Gameday), and we figured it out in real time. Lou didn’t.
When Brian “Who, me?” Schneider draws a walk against your best one-inning battery combo, you should probably replace at least half of that [stuff] right [expletive deleted] now.
How’s that try? Does that work?
"Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have?" -Frank Chance
"If [Ruth] had [called his shot], I would have knocked him down with the next pitch." -Charlie Root
Second-guessing in the extreme
Sorry, Clutch.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jul 18, 2010 1:50 PM CDT up reply actions
I don't agree with you much and my dislike of Lou is well known
but Marmol IS THE CLOSER. He struck out the side the day before and even Lou’s righty lefty obsession is not going to have him leave Marshall in to close.
(For the record Lou should never have left Marshall in Thursday AFTER the Cubs blew the game open). You might make a case for putting in Cashner over Russell in the end but that maybe saves a run. Marmol is the closer, he pitches the 9th unless he has say pitched 3 days in a row. He should not be used tonight not because he blew the game yesterday, but because he has thrown too many pitches.
"Lou Piniella's been a great manager for a long time and I stand by him completely"
by Doggie Stalker on Jul 18, 2010 2:55 PM CDT up reply actions
I agree with you, Jess
Miracles do happen occasionally. :-)
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jul 18, 2010 4:50 PM CDT up reply actions
Nice try, yourself.
Do you ever bother to look up a stat yourself, or do you just believe everything Pat and Ron say?
Marshall against LHBs this year has a .207 BAA, which is pretty good by itself… and then you look at him putting that number up against a higher BABIP (wouldn’t be surprised if you didn’t know what that meant). He’s been BETTER against LHBs this year than RHBs. He allows less walks per nine innings to LHBs and strikes out more LHBs per nine innings.
Marshall is having a fantastic year no matter who is up there. You can make a strong case that Marshall has been the best reliever in baseball this year. In situations like this where you’ve used Marmol in back-to-back days and you’re not going to have Marshall available for the next game anyway, having him go another inning would be a strong decision.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Just North of Wrigley Field
by jameslcrockett on Jul 18, 2010 10:36 AM CDT up reply actions
Judging from your posts,
you might look up a lot of things but you don’t know what they mean. “Nice” work.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jul 18, 2010 1:51 PM CDT up reply actions
Once again...
You provide absolutely nothing of value when your drivel is refuted by actual facts.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Just North of Wrigley Field
by jameslcrockett on Jul 18, 2010 10:51 PM CDT up reply actions
You can't debate a doorknob
so I’m no longer going to debate you.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jul 18, 2010 11:50 PM CDT up reply actions
Right.
Your closer is having a good year though maddenlingly wild at times. And you want to put your set up man suddenly into the Closer role. Completely different pressue, different situation…come on. Definitely hindsight. Say that after he saves a game for us and I’ll start to believe you mean it.
"The ones who want to achieve and win championships motivate themselves." - Da Coach
by Sandberg's evil twin on Jul 18, 2010 3:03 PM CDT up reply actions
Two things about the Marmol meltdown
I doubt this would have made any difference and it was probably discussed in the game thread, but why was Marmol throwing so many warm up pitches on such a hot day. He was up in the pen from top of the 7th inning. I sit behind the bullpen and it seemed like he threw dozens of pitches from then until he went in ,in the 9th. The Cubs 8th took a while. I commented twice at the time to my friends that he was throwing an awful lot out there.
Another thing I should probably know, but it was Hill who was catching for Marmol in the pen. Does he usually do that as opposed to one of the bullpen catchers? I have never noticed.
"Lou Piniella's been a great manager for a long time and I stand by him completely"
by Doggie Stalker on Jul 18, 2010 12:41 AM CDT reply actions
Actually, you are incorrect.
Marmol didn’t get up until the 8th inning. Warming up earlier were Marshall and Cashner.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
No I saw him warming up in the 8th
I don’t think he threw a lot then but he was up.
"Lou Piniella's been a great manager for a long time and I stand by him completely"
by Doggie Stalker on Jul 18, 2010 10:03 AM CDT up reply actions
If he was warming up in the 8th...
… that was the bottom of the 8th, when a closer is supposed to be up. You are mistaken.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
First you said in the 7th. You are contradicting yourself or you meant to say 7th the second time.
"The ones who want to achieve and win championships motivate themselves." - Da Coach
by Sandberg's evil twin on Jul 18, 2010 3:06 PM CDT up reply actions
Sorry I meant the the 7th after Marshall went in
I am getting a bit confused today but I am coffee now.
Of course he was warming up in the 8th
"Lou Piniella's been a great manager for a long time and I stand by him completely"
by Doggie Stalker on Jul 18, 2010 3:49 PM CDT up reply actions
Yikes I keep messing this up
Marmol was throwing in the TOP of the 8th. I get the Cubs had a one run lead, my problem is he threw virtually non stop until the top of the 9th in the heat. He threw dozens of pitches. Seriously I don’t know how you handle things like this but when it goes on for that long in that heat there should be a way to say either sit for 5 minutes or stand and watch but don’t throw as much.
"Lou Piniella's been a great manager for a long time and I stand by him completely"
by Doggie Stalker on Jul 18, 2010 4:06 PM CDT up reply actions
Like a great but unknown philosopher once remarked: Shit happens
I see no reason to stop drinking the KoolAid. The team did not play that bad a game.
Soto made an error and Marmol, for the first time in a long time, had a poor outing. Poor timing for the two, but not season ending.
Gotta continue hoping as long as anything is possible.
DRINK MORE KOOLAID !!!!
by eths on Jul 18, 2010 4:41 AM CDT via mobile reply actions
Oh and before anyone says that I am a delusional ignoramus
I know this year’s Cubs are not the best and that their chances are slim, but I refuse to give up on them. It was obvious to me, that the Cubs should have started rebuilding immediately after the 2008 season, which to limited extent they have started doing. I also understand that Hendry is in a real finacial, contractual bind, making rebuilding difficult. I, like anyone, can see players, coaches and Lou underperforming.
I see all of this.
But if they still have a chance, no matter how small, it’s still Go Cubs, damm the math and pass the KoolAid.
DRINK MORE KOOLAID !!!!
by eths on Jul 18, 2010 5:30 AM CDT via mobile up reply actions
Here
Wait! I may have grabbed the wrong bottle.
KoolAid-Coolant…hmmm…sometimes I get those two confused.
"Fasten those seatbelts!"-Pat Hughes
One more thing about yesterday:
I was getting concessions (a bottle of water) during the 7th inning stretch, and missed it. Noticed a lot of comments about it in the game thread.
I didn't believe it last August, but it turns out that love survives.
Mount Washington conquered July 5, 2010
State high point count: 3/50
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Jul 18, 2010 8:32 AM CDT reply actions
Why the heck does Theriot have the green light to try to steal bases?
He seems to have bad instincts on the basepaths!
by Blue Heron on Jul 18, 2010 10:33 AM CDT reply actions
That's a question I think all would like answered.
Add to that why he starts every game.
"The ones who want to achieve and win championships motivate themselves." - Da Coach
by Sandberg's evil twin on Jul 18, 2010 3:07 PM CDT up reply actions
Despite Marmol's obnoxious stats, I just do not trust him.
We all know there’s no such thing as a perfect closer, and there are very few really, really good ones in the league. But Carlos just doesn’t instill the confidence that others might. I think it all comes down to the fact that “his pitch” is a slider; a very difficult pitch to consistently throw for strikes (and Carlos usually does indeed throw balls, but the batters have so far been fooled and are biting). If you’re a little off on a slider, you’re a lot off.
"I'll take one in the mouth over the eyes any day". - AJ Pierzynski
by lostinthevines on Jul 18, 2010 11:12 AM CDT reply actions
The Karma Kops blame the Marmol melt down on Todd Hollandsworth
as he proclaimed (1) it was a mistake for the Phillies Manager to leave Marmol off the all star squad and (2) that Marmol was the best closer in the NL.
Why do announcers put these superlatives out there before the guy does his job? Will they ever learn?
Carlos Silva lemonade: made from freshly squeezed Milton Bradley lemons. -- the Jim Hendry kook book.
He doesn't instill confidence in you
because you’re a Cubs fan and you’re always waiting for the other shoe to drop.
Then again, I don’t think too many fans have much faith in their closers.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jul 18, 2010 1:53 PM CDT up reply actions
anyone else
hear santo scream and i mean scream oh godddddddddddddddddddd. when geo dropped the ball. this man bleeds cubbie blue for sure.
at this point point Santo is the President of HCB.
Hemorrhaging
Cubbie
Blue
Carlos Silva lemonade: made from freshly squeezed Milton Bradley lemons. -- the Jim Hendry kook book.
It made me laugh
sounded like he was shot, almost as bad as the Brant Brown drop in Milwaukee in 1998.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jul 18, 2010 1:53 PM CDT up reply actions
also
teams live and die with their closer.once he comes in its his to win or lose. geo blew this game not lou or marmol.
If Marmol hadn't struggled with his command,
Geo would not have had to worry about making the catch with the game on the line.
I didn't believe it last August, but it turns out that love survives.
Mount Washington conquered July 5, 2010
State high point count: 3/50
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Jul 18, 2010 2:05 PM CDT up reply actions
Marmol gets 40% of the blame for the walks. Soto gets 30% of the blame for
his (in)ability to catch the bounce and Lou gets 30% of the blame for continuing to bat theRiot in lead-off and all of his other boneheaded decisions.
Carlos Silva lemonade: made from freshly squeezed Milton Bradley lemons. -- the Jim Hendry kook book.
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