Gibby New D'Backs Manager
Kirk Gibson has been named the new manager of the Arizona Diamondbacks (only three games behind the Cubs).
The D'Backs can at least recognize when a change is needed. Why can't the Cubs?
I'll say this. The Diamondbacks will play HARD and the right way. If they lose a game, it won't be because of 'lack of effort'...
almost 2 years ago
Zeke
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I'll guarantee you ....
… he won’t say “Look, what do you want me to do?” during postgame news conferences.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
Of course, a 25-year-old today...
was three when Gibson hit his homer and wasn’t born when he played on the 84 Tigers.
Let’s see if he actually knows one end of the dugout from the other before we start sucking on each other’s popsicles.
There is no such thing as an ugly female breast
Gibson's been a respected coach for several years...
… and is in the Ryne Sandberg “play-the-game-right” camp. I think he’ll be a good manager.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
If that is true...
It will be interesting to see if todays players “buy into” that philosophy. It might be a test to see if the “play the game right” ways of Gibson and Ryno will work in todays Major League.
See the Cubs 2010 schedule (now with game times & TV Schedule) at http://cubsbythenumbers.com/sched2010.html
Also see what old Cubs Scorecards looked like at http://cubsbythenumbers.com/scorecards.html
problem is, that team is so bad, it's going to be hard to tell
whether they aren’t “buying into it” or just can’t overcome their crappiness
There's a lot of talent in Arizona.
Chris Young, Stephen Drew, and of course Justin Upton, among others.
They should be better than they are at the moment.
I've watched Gibby from his earliest days as a flanker playing Big Ten football for MSU. He's always had the talent.
It’s not about his players knowing any of his history. Most wouldn’t care anyway.
Some guys get it and some don’t. It took playing for Sparky Anderson for Gibby to ‘get it’, and it payed off on a good playing and coaching career.
He’ll make the D’Backs better… simple as that. Or they’ll be HELL to pay!
We have met the enemy and they are us! ~ Walt Kelly, Pogo, 1971
Yeah...that always works.
Just ask Larry Bowa.
See the Cubs 2010 schedule (now with game times & TV Schedule) at http://cubsbythenumbers.com/sched2010.html
Also see what old Cubs Scorecards looked like at http://cubsbythenumbers.com/scorecards.html
by kaseyi on Jul 2, 2010 7:49 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
Well, through 3 innings tonight
the D’Backs are doing things they haven’t done in 2 1/2 years…moving runners, stealing bases, putting pressure on the opponent, quality ABs. Don’t know if this will last, but for tonight at least, they look like a real ball club.
Of course, the bullpen hasn’t been used as yet…
It'll be interesting to see if that's the "dead cat bounce"
FWIW, I prefer the style of a player like Gibson and for players to have that attitude.
by Shanghai Badger on Jul 3, 2010 9:53 AM CDT up reply actions
I DON'T BELIEVE WHAT I JUST READ!!!
Contributing Editor, SB Nation Chicago. Please follow us on Twitter!
I wish we had a new manager.
"Pounding sand since 1982...."
by cubswynn on Jul 2, 2010 9:36 AM CDT reply actions 1 recs
Gibson - Tigers home run
I have a full clip of Gibson’s 1984 World Series homer, in which the players are miked.
As Gibson came up to bat, the Padres gathered around Gossage on the mound, trying to decide what to do. An intentional walk was obviously in order, but you hear Gossage making the argument to pitch to Gibson, telling Dick Williams, “I’ve had good success.”. Williams asks Gossage if he wants the infield in, and Gossage shakes his head.
Meanwhile, you hear Sparky Anderson yelling from the dugout to Gibson, who’s in the on-deck circle, “They ain’t going to walk you!” Then Anderson makes a swinging motion to Gibson, almost like he’s giving Gibson advice on how to hit.
The advice worked, because Gibson sent a Gossage pitch high and far into the night. (I think the ball made it into the second deck in right field of old Tiger Stadium.)
"They found a delivery in my flaw." - Dan Quisenberry
It's worth keeping in mind
that Gibson is carrying the ‘interim’ label. It is by no means certain that he will be the D’Backs manager after 2010, although I am sure that if the team shows improvement (hard to imagine how they could be worse), Gibson will get strong consideration for the permanent position.
maybe SD will ask the Dbacks to wear 1984 throwbacks to honor Gibby
oh, wait nevermind
Unofficial Self Appointed President of the Player Formerly Known as Castro Blocker Fan Club
Bleed Castro Blue
Dead cat bounce
See the Cubs 2010 schedule (now with game times & TV Schedule) at http://cubsbythenumbers.com/sched2010.html
Also see what old Cubs Scorecards looked like at http://cubsbythenumbers.com/scorecards.html
by kaseyi on Jul 3, 2010 7:41 AM CDT via mobile up reply actions
I'm not really a believer in
the “play it right” or “give them hell” type of manager. I just don’t think that style will work with todays players. I believe the players will hear the ranting and raving and then tune out the manager. Thats also why I don’t believe Sandberg will be a good manager in the majors. THe typical major league player who is making big bucks will say “the hell with this raving lunitic” (and in Sandbergs case, you can say he has raved during his minor league managerial career with all his ejections), and will just do things their own way.
BTW, I see this same dynamic in the workplace today. The manager who says “do this my way or else” gets very little results. Yelling gets you nowhere. A manager who relates to a person and works with them gets a lot more results. From the comments above, it seems that GIbson is a “Give them Hell” type of person. I just don’t see that working. From things I have heard about Sandbergs tenure in Tennessee (my sister in law lives in suburban Knoxville and has told me a lot of what people down there have said about Rynos style) he is a give them hell type of manager. This stuff might work in the minors where it is truly a play it my way or the highway situation, but when you get to the major leagues, this is not the case.
In the long run, I just don’t think this change in managers will work.
See the Cubs 2010 schedule (now with game times & TV Schedule) at http://cubsbythenumbers.com/sched2010.html
Also see what old Cubs Scorecards looked like at http://cubsbythenumbers.com/scorecards.html
the "play it right" or "give them hell" type of manager.
Mike Keenan is the first who comes to mind wheneverI think of a manager like that. he won a lot, but never stuck around too long due to his tirades and “intense” style of coaching. I dont know if that style is better or worse, but i know that it doesnt seem to allow for long tenured coaching anymore.
That style of coach also seems to be more often than not in hockey up and down the ranks. Another who won championships (IHL/AHL) was John Anderson with the Wolves.
Unofficial Self Appointed President of the Player Formerly Known as Castro Blocker Fan Club
Bleed Castro Blue
Don't confuse fire with fundamentals.
Gibson will instill attention to fundamentals. He can’t instill his fire into others. He can only show them the way it SHOULD be done at the major league level.
We have met the enemy and they are us! ~ Walt Kelly, Pogo, 1971
Give them hell
Smart aggressive baseball doesn’t require a “give them hell” manager. I’m still not sold on Sandberg as the next manager.
I love watching the Angels play and a Mike Scioscia type manager is my first choice.
I found it interesting
that when asked what he said to the players before the game, Gibby said, "Not much. I just told them what we expected of them, what kind of team I thought they should be, and what our personality is, given our roster. And that winning takes hard work, but it is worth it, because there is no better feeling in the world’.
It was interesting to me, because evidently Gibson felt that they needed to hear what the expectations were, even though it is nearly halfway through the season. Makes you wonder what A.J. was saying to the team.
Most folks perform better when they know what is expected of them.
Apparently the players didn’t…
We have met the enemy and they are us! ~ Walt Kelly, Pogo, 1971
It seems obvious
but you know, one of the hallmarks of both A.J. Hinch and Bob Melvin before him (and Lou Piniella, to an extent) is that they seldom stayed with the same lineup.
Of course, neither the Cubs nor the D’Backs have a ‘true’ leadoff hitter, which makes it challenging. But, last night, Gibson stuck Chris Young in at lead-off, something Young had not really done much since 2007, and he responded with a big night.
There is definitely something to be said for setting expectations, defining roles and sticking to it. Through slumps, losing streaks, etc. It sends a message that you believe in what you are doing, believe in the players, and they don’t have the added pressure of knowing that if they have a couple of bad games they will get moved around or benched.
i know the two do not go hand in hand
no matter how much fire a manager has, he is only as good as the talent provided to him
Unofficial Self Appointed President of the Player Formerly Known as Castro Blocker Fan Club
Bleed Castro Blue
See 1988 LA Dodgers
Dubbed the worst WS championship team ever, and the biggest underdog since the 1927 Pittsburg Pirates. Or the 1954 NY Giants.
worst WS team or not the players won it and not because of the manager
but because they played to win. its not that hard to understand. a manager cannot win the game on the field, the players have to.
Unofficial Self Appointed President of the Player Formerly Known as Castro Blocker Fan Club
Bleed Castro Blue
History
shows us that managers can have a huge impact on a team’s success. For many varied and complex reasons.
That isn’t opinion, that is incontrovertible fact.
it is also fact that if a manager has no talent he cannot win
no matter what he does. or will you deny that?
Unofficial Self Appointed President of the Player Formerly Known as Castro Blocker Fan Club
Bleed Castro Blue
It's not a very interesting question
The fact of the matter is, ALL major league teams have talent. Going back after after a team has had a losing season and saying, well, they didn’t have any good players is just not particularly persuasive.
Good teams fail, mediocre teams over achieve…if you are looking at past performance and assuming that will repeat. But, young players improve, some players have break out years and veteran players can find renewed energy.
I keep telling you guys, it’s a team game. It is not just a group of random individual players. Sometimes a team jells, and almost always, a manager is primarily responsible. You can take the same player who is performing well on a team that is overachieving, and put him on another team with similar expectations and his production dips significantly. How is that?
Several people here were mocking the Padres before the season for their lack of good players and calling them a sure 100 loss team. Go back and check the preseason picks thread.
Now, they are having a great season. So, what is it, do they have talent or not? Based on ‘conventional wisdom’ one would say no. One of their surprise key contributors this year is David Eckstein. He was almost out of baseball after some down years. The Padres were the only team that wanted him.
Does their manager have anything to do with them far exceeding the expectations for the team? Darn right he does,.
So, that is my answer.
and when have i or others here said it is not a team game?
not once have I said that, and you state that as if we all say it is not daily.
the manager does have some input and so on, i have not said he doesnt, but he also has to have talent. you talk as if the Dodgers had no one at all that was a good player compared to others. I guess you should look at the roster once and maybe you will see a few studs as well as leaders on the team who were not that bad. And yes I know that Oakland was the team that was favored, but do you forget that the Dodgers won 94 that season, they were not a “Wild Card” team so to speak.
You still side step what i have said nicely, i give you credit. The manager CANNOT win the game on the field, he cannot hit the ball, catch the ball, pitch the ball, he can only place the players in what he believes is the best situation for them to win, they still have to make the plays.
Why does a player not produce the same from one team to another is called human element, its not because of the manger alone. There are so many variables that i see no way anyone can nail it down to any one thing, but nice try there.
what does those who mocked the Padres have to do with this at all? You are now mixing varous ideas into one point which only clutters your thoughts.
based on your wisdom, Tommy Lasorda could take the 2010 Cubs to the WS and win it because its not talent, its the manager (so to speak), right?
Unofficial Self Appointed President of the Player Formerly Known as Castro Blocker Fan Club
Bleed Castro Blue
The things that you and others post
on a regular basis make it clear that you do not understand that it is a team game, or at the very least, don’t understand the implications of that.
The fact that you cannot see the relevance of the various examples I gave makes that abundantly clear.
I never said, and never implied that the manager is the only reason why some teams with allegedly lesser talent can jell into a winning ballclub. But, more often that not, the manager is a significant factor.
That’s the thing that so many on here just can’t see. When Lou Piniella says, “Look, what do you want me to do?”, the geniuses on here mock him, but in reality he is saying, “I’ve tried all the tricks and techniques I have learned in all my years in baseball, and this team just hasn’t jelled yet.” You can have all the talent in the world, but getting a baseball team to play like a team, to have that synergy where an individual players success rubs off on other players and a team momentum and synergy is created is not a science…it is an art.
One need to look no further than Anaheim, CA to get a read on this. Look at the key players the Angels lost from their team last year, and then probably their best player is lost for the year. How did the team respond? With a winning run, almost entirely on the road, that got them right back into the race.
Think Scoscia and his staff had anything to do with that? Think Buddy Black, who learned under Scoscia, has anything to do with the Padres surprising success?
show me once where i said it is not a team game
please, i really wish you would since i have never done so.
show me where i have mocked Lou for what he has said such as “look what do you want me to do” since again i have never done so.
you seem to be taking your opinion of all things BCB and wanting to apply them to a single poster at the moment, which makes it abundantly clear you are trying to stereotype instead of discuss my post in itself.
Again I have said that the manager has a hand in things, in fact i admitted it in the prior post you just now replied to, yet for whatever reason you seem to continue to skip over that part.
have you noticed that when you post here you start one argument after another, tell people they know nothing (in more words) and skip over what they actually say, adn you do so in a real arrogant manner? you are far from dumb, and you know baseball, there is no doubt in my mind, but you are one nasty insult away from entering BLou land.
Unofficial Self Appointed President of the Player Formerly Known as Castro Blocker Fan Club
Bleed Castro Blue
No
what I did was just the opposite of what you claim I did.
I took what you posted, which I thought, and still think is uninformed, and made into a general BCB point. I think this is legitimate thing to do on a public blog. Otherwise it is just one on one and not of general interest.
Nowhere did I specifically call you out for mocking Lou, so it is silly for you to get your panties in a twist over it.
However, the content of your posts on this specific subject make it very clear that you really don’t have any sort of a grasp on the dynamics of a baseball team, and I’ll just let it go at that.
sure about that
let me quite you
See 1988 LA Dodgers Dubbed the worst WS championship team ever, and the biggest underdog since the 1927 Pittsburg Pirates. Or the 1954 NY Giants.
by azjazzman on Jul 3, 2010 2:22 PM CDT up
that implies that their talent level was subpar and they should not have won, right?
Unofficial Self Appointed President of the Player Formerly Known as Castro Blocker Fan Club
Bleed Castro Blue
It's quite clear
when I say “dubbed….” that I am referring to "conventional wisdom’ and not injecting my own opinion. Why is that so difficult for you to comprehend?
but to use it as your evidence
means you are saying that it is true, since it is your example that you are entering as evidence of your point. I have only presented facts about that team that does not agree with the dubbing"
Unofficial Self Appointed President of the Player Formerly Known as Castro Blocker Fan Club
Bleed Castro Blue
and I guess you saying
The things that you and others post on a regular basis make it clear that you do not understand that it is a team game, or at the very least, don’t understand the implications of that
Didnt you just say
No what I did was just the opposite of what you claim I did.
I took what you posted, which I thought, and still think is uninformed, and made into a general BCB point. I think this is legitimate thing to do on a public blog. Otherwise it is just one on one and not of general interest.
when my claim was that you are trying to group all of BCB on your thoughts about them, and I asked you to show me where i have done so?
these two posts by you argue themselves, one says YOU meaning CUBBIE-TIM then you say NO CUBBIE-TIM I DIDNT SAY THAT
Unofficial Self Appointed President of the Player Formerly Known as Castro Blocker Fan Club
Bleed Castro Blue
and FWIW
here is what i said, admitting that yes the manager does have some influence, but that he does have to have players who can get the job done still
the manager does have some input and so on, i have not said he doesnt, but he also has to have talent. you talk as if the Dodgers had no one at all that was a good player compared to others. I guess you should look at the roster once and maybe you will see a few studs as well as leaders on the team who were not that bad. And yes I know that Oakland was the team that was favored, but do you forget that the Dodgers won 94 that season, they were not a "Wild Card" team so to speak.
and again FWIW the 1988 Dodgers team that you are talking about how bad they were, well they had a 23 game winner, another with 17 and won 94 as a team, not too shabby
Unofficial Self Appointed President of the Player Formerly Known as Castro Blocker Fan Club
Bleed Castro Blue
Again
you twist my words to try to make a point that just doesn’t exist.
I never said anything at all about what I think the talent level of the ‘88 Dodgers was. All I did was point out what the ’experts’ said at the time.
However, a brief check of their roster would confirm why people were saying that.
But, as you seem incapable of understanding, this has nothing to do with the point I was making.
You say that a team without talent cannot win, no matter who the manager is. And I responded by saying, there is no such thing as a major league baseball time without talent.
there is talent sure
but there is a difference in the talent level, which you cannot grasp, it is obvious.
If the talent (to help you understand) level on all teams were the same, then the advanced stats, and scouting reports would not matter, since everyone would know each other as the same talent. Since players are not the same 9Theriot is not Jeter at SS for example) it does change what a manager can do and what his managerial ability with the team allows. Riggleman did win with a lesser team in 1998 for example, I understand how that works, but he also had better talent than say the 1998 Pirates who didnt make it and that was talent more than managerial skills that stopped the Pirates from winning games
Unofficial Self Appointed President of the Player Formerly Known as Castro Blocker Fan Club
Bleed Castro Blue
And you accuse me
of arguing both sides at once.
So, what is your point? That a manager can impact a team’s ability to play winning baseball or not?
By the way, the shortstops on that 1988 Dodgers team were Alfredo Griffin and Dave Anderson. They aren’t Derek Jeter, either.
depends on the manager and the team
you have made false statements, twisted words, and accused me then tried to say you didnt do any of them. Until you can show me where I have said what you have accused me of, you are only digging your hole deeper.
Unofficial Self Appointed President of the Player Formerly Known as Castro Blocker Fan Club
Bleed Castro Blue
Mocking Lou
my turn
Lou "whats with the kid in CF"
Ozzie "he is the bosses son, what do you want me to do?"
Unofficial Self Appointed President of the Castro Blocker Fan Club
by Cubbie-Tim on Mar 20, 2010 2:57 PM PDT
Jabbing Lou
for not playing Colvin more:
mayeb he can het a lefty
but he cannot catch a lefty
wait, what?
Unofficial Self Appointed President of the Player Formerly Known as Castro Blocker Fan Club
Bleed Castro Blue
by Cubbie-Tim on Jun 28, 2010 5:57 PM PDT up reply actions
i guess sarcasm is lost on you?
maybe you should have been there when i made such statements
Lou “whats with the kid in CF”
Ozzie “he is the bosses son, what do you want me to do?”
was a sarcastic statement about Kenny Williams Jr being in CF for the White Sox
mayeb he can het a lefty
but he cannot catch a lefty
wait, what?
was a jab at DS if anyone, based on her obsession with the hitting ability of Colvin, who made an error on the play I was making the joke about.
care to keep digging, and I will be happy to explain each time you try
Unofficial Self Appointed President of the Player Formerly Known as Castro Blocker Fan Club
Bleed Castro Blue
Gibson is only the 2nd
manager in D’Backs history to start his tenure with a win.
The only other, not surprisingly, was Bob Brenly.
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