Silva Lining Tarnished: Cubs Starter Done After One In 11-5 Loss To Astros
by Al Yellon on Jul 20, 2010 7:30 AM CDT
in Chicago Cubs Recaps
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PrintI do not understand this team.
They look very good in winning a series -- and coming close to a sweep -- against the defending league champion Phillies.
Then the Astros come to town with the third-worst record in the National League and the Cubs completely forget how to get outs, even when the Astros start three players with a combined total of 215 major league at-bats and a BA of .233.
Two of those players hit home runs last night in the Astros' 11-5 rout of the Cubs, and the combined total of major league home runs for Chris Johnson and Jason Castro before Monday was one (by Castro).
Rain threatened the area last night, but all that fell at Wrigley Field were some sprinkles during batting practice. It might as well have rained; it definitely rained base hits on Carlos Silva, who threw 41 pitches in a monstrosity of a first inning in which he didn't retire a hitter until Johnson -- who was batting seventh -- hit into a double play. Silva said in his postgame remarks that he was ready to come out for the second inning, but even Lou woke up and realized that would be a bad idea.
Silva should have been offered in trade several starts ago (and maybe he was); right now, his trade value is pretty close to zero. It was only the third start of his career where he lasted one inning or less.
We learned a few more things last night. First, Justin Berg and Mitch Atkins are not major league pitchers. Had they done a better job of holding the Astros down, the Cubs might have gotten back into the game. Thanks to a pair of homers by Tyler Colvin and Aramis Ramirez (A-Ram's 200th as a Cub), the Cubs managed to creep to within three runs at 8-5 after six.
Bye-bye chance in the following inning, when Berg gave up Johnson's first major league homer. Johnson had a single, triple and home run; as far as I can tell, the only player to hit his first ML homer as part of a cycle (Johnson needed a double) was Luke Scott in 2006.
Bob Howry put the game further out of reach by allowing a run in two innings; that performance actually made his ERA go down from 6.97 to 6.82.
As I said, I don't understand this team; they are now 5-14 against the two worst teams in their division, the Astros and Pirates. That accounts for almost all of the Cubs' deficit to .500 -- they are 37-38 against everyone else, and that includes winning series against the Dodgers and Rockies, contenders in the NL West, and the AL West-leading Rangers on the road, where the Cubs are 19-27.
They'll try it again tonight, weather permitting. The chances of a miracle are probably done; it would be nice, though, to finally win a series against the Astros, if only just to say they did it.
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What is this...
SBNation roundtable thing that’s on the right? Is there a setting to make it go away?
I had first in the topic bar and was about to press enter.
You beat me fair and square.
"A dream you dream alone is only a dream. A dream you dream together is reality." John Lennon
grr I had wondered about that also
"Actually, Major League Baseball is more like Neverland
And the Lost Boys don’t have to ever grow up. Some do, anyway, but that is not a universal characteristic"
by Madison Cub Fan on Jul 20, 2010 8:18 AM CDT up reply actions
We settled in to watch the game, but then it was over before the first out was recorded!
But it was good to see Ramirez keep hitting, and Colvin’s homer. Hope it doesn’t rain. We plan on going.
One of Lee Elia's 15%
Yep, I barely got comfortable to watch
before realizing my time would be better spent reading a good book. Had the TV on mute so I could glance up at it occasionally, but it kept getting worse so we finally shut it off. Had my husband not caught me listening to the last inning upstairs, he may have actually believed me when I told him I think I’m becoming a fair weather fan.
We are going tonight too. Maybe I’ll see you.
I’m going to try to sneak that blue Devo energy dome in tonight- without my husband seeing. He says he won’t go with me if I wear it. Yes, I did get one and put a C on it like I said I would when they swept the Diamondbacks.
"Fasten those seatbelts!"-Pat Hughes
OK-OK-but if I do end up wearing it there,
I’ll wave to you and that should be proof enough. If my husband won’t let me, I’ll have my son take a pic of me from home and I’ll post it. That should technically honor the bet. I only said I’d wear it to a game if enough people dared me. So far you and my kids are the only ones that really dared me. Not enough IMO.
"Fasten those seatbelts!"-Pat Hughes
I must've missed where
“all of BCB” dared me. Truly, I never did define “enough” which I see as an easy out. My husband puts up with A LOT. I need his help hauling cows around this weekend. Don’t want to push my luck with him at the game today. We’ll see.
"Fasten those seatbelts!"-Pat Hughes
Just kiddin' around.
Hope they win tonight for you.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
Afraid I'll embarrass you too
by waving at you with that crazy hat on?
"Fasten those seatbelts!"-Pat Hughes
I was wearing a crazy hat Sunday night.
Oh, wait….
It’s still got that stain from when I put it in a puddle of … something … at a concessions stand early in the game.
I didn't believe it last August, but it turns out that love survives.
Mount Washington conquered July 5, 2010
State high point count: 3/50
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Jul 20, 2010 9:43 AM CDT up reply actions
Like I told you.
Consider that a badge of honor. (And don’t ask what the “something” was. You probably don’t want to know.)
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
Of course, now we are all wondering.
My imagination might be worse.
"Fasten those seatbelts!"-Pat Hughes
by katie casey on Jul 20, 2010 10:18 AM CDT up reply actions
We are going and I'll have my camera!
Where are your seats??
One of Lee Elia's 15%
by waiting4cubs on Jul 20, 2010 10:48 AM CDT up reply actions
517 row 3
But seriously, whatever % chance the Cubs have of making the playoffs this year is about the % chance Mr. Casey lets me wear that hat.
"Fasten those seatbelts!"-Pat Hughes
by katie casey on Jul 20, 2010 11:05 AM CDT up reply actions
I'll bring my copy of your book
if you wouldn’t mind signing it for me. I apologize ahead of time for the broken spine. Please take that as a compliment-means I enjoyed it.
"Fasten those seatbelts!"-Pat Hughes
by katie casey on Jul 20, 2010 11:11 AM CDT up reply actions
Be happy to sign it. I'll see you there!
We’ll probably be in the 500’s somewhere, too.
One of Lee Elia's 15%
by waiting4cubs on Jul 20, 2010 12:22 PM CDT up reply actions
I hope you see a win tonight.
I’m going Wednesday, so I won’t be able to meet your family … unless you’re in the Wrigleyville area on Friday.
I didn't believe it last August, but it turns out that love survives.
Mount Washington conquered July 5, 2010
State high point count: 3/50
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Jul 20, 2010 9:41 AM CDT up reply actions
Thanks.
As for tomorrow, I’d really like to, but kinda doubt it. We live a couple hours away so it is exhausting to go to two games in a row, let alone a night game followed by a day game. It would be almost like turning around to go back as soon as I get home.
Can’t make it Fri. I’ll be getting ready for an art show. As a matter of fact I was really excited to hear ads for it during the game on WGN! Maybe we’ll get a good turnout.
"Fasten those seatbelts!"-Pat Hughes
Is Lilly going to be traded today?
He has a start tomorrow. I hear/read that some NL GMs think he will be traded before his next start.
"A dream you dream alone is only a dream. A dream you dream together is reality." John Lennon
Are you at liberty to explain why that is, Al?
I got the impression from Bruce Levine the other day that nothing will happen until Wednesday with a lot of players, notably Lilly. What I can’t figure is why. What’s the significance of that day?
I have no idea.
I don’t think there IS any particular significance. I just don’t think Jim Hendry is going to make any moves in the next day.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
It wouldn't surprise me ...
if Hendry looked at the 11 days left before the deadline and figured he’d give Lilly one more start as a Cub at Wrigley.
Really?
It wouldn’t bother me if that is the case. Short of a possible injury to Lilly, what’s the harm?
Because teams don't operate that way.
Yes, the Cubs did that with Greg Maddux — a favor to a future Hall of Famer. That’s a unique situation that won’t be repeated.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
????
I don’t think Hendry “gave” Maddux an extra start or are you referring to the trade itself as the “favor” which it was.
"Lou Piniella's been a great manager for a long time and I stand by him completely"
by Doggie Stalker on Jul 20, 2010 10:08 AM CDT up reply actions
That's what Hendry does best...nothing.
"Don't shed any tears. You think about this: Here I am, the grandson of a slave. And here the whole world was excited about whether I was going into the Hall of Fame or not. We've come a long ways." BUCK O'NEIL
by HotDogDude on Jul 20, 2010 9:12 AM CDT via mobile up reply actions
The trade has to be worth more than the draft pick
and two more months of Lilly which is part of the package. Silva may well be injured so dragging up two new starters ASAP would be complicated. Z probably is not ready for at least 10 days to two weeks.
"Lou Piniella's been a great manager for a long time and I stand by him completely"
by Doggie Stalker on Jul 20, 2010 10:10 AM CDT up reply actions
If Silva is not injured
He is definitely past his freshness date. They had better be working on plan B there.
"Wait, are you saying I'm a sunshine-pumping, koolaid-drinking, Soriano-loving, rainbow-rising, unicorn-riding, double-clutching, Sweet Lou-backing, Hendry-supporting, hey hey whaddya saying, Cubs are going all the waying, glass is overflowing, Rothschild is all-knowing, Cubs fan? - ballhawk
You mention a possible trade a few starts ago. Selling high on Silva.....
I agree compleletly agree…
The front office (JH and Tom Ricketts) have been very slow on the trigger on all things this season. This is just a continuation of that. Who knows maybe he was offered and there where no takers. But I think if the cubs were to eat much of his salary he would have been able to be moved. Remember there was talk of releasing him outright in spring trainning if he he was as terrible as he was in seattle.
Jim Hendry, Tom Ricketts, and Carlos Silva are all amazing!
The point of making trades right now is salary relief.
The Cubs aren’t going to make a deal where they have to eat salary.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
?? depends
eat some salary to get a better prospect….not totally do salary dumps to get back a guy in A ball that will never make it……
by cozmotaylor123 on Jul 20, 2010 8:02 AM CDT up reply actions
I guess.
But what I hear is that the #1 thing the Cubs are looking for is salary relief.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
over acquiring young talent?
Awesome. Year One just gets crappier and crappier
by HuskerCorner on Jul 20, 2010 8:34 AM CDT up reply actions
Not worth young talent
The Cubs would rather have some salary relief than a kid for A-AA ball that’s never going to progress from there. And that’s about what he’s worth with his contract and recent regression.
But that is all the Cubs would get
Major league GM’s aren’t stupid (at least most of the time). No one was going to look at the Carlos Silva from the past several years and all of a sudden think this guy has turned it around at age 31 based on a half season.
The best the Cubs would have gotten for Silva and some money was a marginal prospect or two. Would that be worth it? Possibly but then the Cubs would be looking at the likes of Atkins or Shark in the rotation. That would do wonders for attendance and interest at Wrigley.
To think the Cubs are going to find takers for all their veterans and blow up the team is unrealistic.
all we needed to get
was the salary cleared and roster spot cleared for next season
that would have been enough given the financial constraints and the excess potential SPs. We didn’t need a big time prospect in return to make it a worthwhile deal to move Silva
follow me on twitter for fantasy sports analysis @http://twitter.com/DrewDinkmeyer or get the full analysis at www.fantistics.com
by DartmouthCubsFan on Jul 20, 2010 8:22 AM CDT up reply actions
Correct.
Now, maybe they could still figure out some kind of deal with a team desperate for pitching. But… it might be too late.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
it probably is too late
which is why you can’t always wait for things to go bad before shipping players off. Sometimes you have to trade players when they’re performing at their best (selling high) if you have a reasonable assumption that the team isn’t “likely” to compete
which was my argument a few weeks back for considering this
follow me on twitter for fantasy sports analysis @http://twitter.com/DrewDinkmeyer or get the full analysis at www.fantistics.com
by DartmouthCubsFan on Jul 20, 2010 8:32 AM CDT up reply actions
this is also why looking ahead is critical to a successful front office
I'll go to my grave believing Armando Galarraga tossed the 21st perfect game in MLB history.
Yours is the best point made
Regarding this profound mess Henrdy has engineered for himself; why can’t this team be run by a saavy baseball mind that can see 3 steps ahead, crunch numbers, lure other GM’s into reasonible deals and work with agents? This is a major market town, even Cinnci and San Diego withway less resources have accomplished this!
"Don't shed any tears. You think about this: Here I am, the grandson of a slave. And here the whole world was excited about whether I was going into the Hall of Fame or not. We've come a long ways." BUCK O'NEIL
by HotDogDude on Jul 20, 2010 9:21 AM CDT via mobile up reply actions
Hendry is caught between a rock in a hard place
You have a $140 million payroll. At the very least, if you are outspending the rest of your division, you should be around second place. This is not encouraging at all when you come to the conclusion that you’re not going to be able to compete in your division. You have to try to salvage something for the future, so you are left with either dumping players that won’t give you much in return (i.e. Derrek Lee or Carlos Zambrano) or biting the bullet with your better players to try to get better prospects (i.e. Byrd).
RIP Ronnie James Dio (July 10, 1942 - May 16, 2010).
I agree with that but have one question
Does Hendry even have the available money to add along with Silva to move that deal? I don’t think Silva was ever movable with adding additional money.
sure he was
As a solid mid-rotation starter with a 1.5 yr commitment and 11 million left on contract (assuming we threw in the money sent over to us by SEA)
I think he had some value.
But now…. i think that dream may be gone as something clearly isnt right (whether its his knee/leg issues) or just a massive regression to the mean. Contenders aren’t going to want to take on a struggling asset like this
The time to sell has likely passed on SIlva
follow me on twitter for fantasy sports analysis @http://twitter.com/DrewDinkmeyer or get the full analysis at www.fantistics.com
by DartmouthCubsFan on Jul 20, 2010 8:31 AM CDT up reply actions
But you are assuming the money from Seattle was available
That was really my question, is there that money truly available budget-wise? Obviously if the Cubs threw enough money they could move Silva but I’m not sure how much is available.
I agree though now, it is a moot point. Silva isn’t going anywhere.
on silva..yes
on others..they might throw in $$ for the prospect to be better.
by cozmotaylor123 on Jul 20, 2010 9:00 AM CDT up reply actions
"a couple starts ago"
when a few kept reiterating the sell high ideas on Silva/Byrd, many here were content with just riding things out
People here only want to sell after an asset has gone bad.
follow me on twitter for fantasy sports analysis @http://twitter.com/DrewDinkmeyer or get the full analysis at www.fantistics.com
by DartmouthCubsFan on Jul 20, 2010 8:21 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
And when they sold high on DeRosa
everybody complained. Can’t please anybody.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jul 20, 2010 10:22 AM CDT up reply actions
I wouldn't call it selling high because we have yet to get any real return on him.
JH botched that deal…….A move he had to make because he signed Bradley for no reason.
by TJ11 on Jul 20, 2010 10:25 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Don't forget Joey Gathright and Chad Gaudin.
Both of whom were important pieces of the 2009 team.
Gah.
It was bad enough living through that at the time. Let’s not relive it again. I think I have to wash my monitor to get rid of some of those names.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
he's 21
are we really going to fault him for being in an age-appropriate league if not slightly ahead of schedule?
by circuitclout on Jul 20, 2010 11:53 AM CDT up reply actions
That's all fine, yes.
But there are no guarantees he’ll ever see a major league mound.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
the return
was not having a guy on the dl…
Sipping the Kool-Aid since 1982 - Kinda
Currently 34,839 on the Season Ticket Wait List - Expected age of being #0: 119
by hansman1982 on Jul 20, 2010 11:36 AM CDT up reply actions
Because Derosa going to the DL would have happened no matter where he was?
I’m not a Deromantic by any stretch, but that’s a pretty silly argument. Hendry didn’t trade him because he knew he was due to get hurt
by HuskerCorner on Jul 20, 2010 11:37 AM CDT up reply actions
true
I thought the trade sucked at the time but looking back DeRo hasnt been the same since…worked out decently for us, same with the Silva trade….both of them (just like any decision) could have gone either way
Sipping the Kool-Aid since 1982 - Kinda
Currently 34,839 on the Season Ticket Wait List - Expected age of being #0: 119
by hansman1982 on Jul 20, 2010 11:42 AM CDT up reply actions
Silva has 9 wins. No return? You think that was a BAD deal?
If he doesn’t win another game the rest of the year, the Cubs STILL came out on top. Did anyone here expect 9 wins from this guy? I know I didn’t.
Ron Santo - 8,143 ABs, .277 BA; 342 HR; 1331 RBI = NO Hall of Fame?
Brooks Robinson - 10,654 ABs, .267 BA; 268 HR; 1357 RBI = Hall of Fame.
Any more questions ?
Ah...my bad...you were talkin' about the DeRo trade...thought you were talkin' about the Silva for Bradley. Apologies.
Ron Santo - 8,143 ABs, .277 BA; 342 HR; 1331 RBI = NO Hall of Fame?
Brooks Robinson - 10,654 ABs, .267 BA; 268 HR; 1357 RBI = Hall of Fame.
Any more questions ?
How can you say we sold high?
because we got three guys who have yet to amount to one real major league player? The jury is still very much out on that deal.
by HuskerCorner on Jul 20, 2010 10:32 AM CDT up reply actions
Thank you!
You and I haven’t often agreed, but I’m with you on this one.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
different circumstances
that team was a contending team trying to win now
they shouldn’t be evaluated in the same manner
follow me on twitter for fantasy sports analysis @http://twitter.com/DrewDinkmeyer or get the full analysis at www.fantistics.com
by DartmouthCubsFan on Jul 20, 2010 10:54 AM CDT up reply actions
its just that
fewer people wanted bradley…Silva has worked well…we got some value out of him
Sipping the Kool-Aid since 1982 - Kinda
Currently 34,839 on the Season Ticket Wait List - Expected age of being #0: 119
by hansman1982 on Jul 20, 2010 11:42 AM CDT up reply actions
Reading between the lines
of Hendry’s quote in Al’s SB Nation piece on Lilly and trades,it doesn’t sound like there’s going to be much action.
Hendry was asked whether he feels he needs to make a trade at this time. "We don’t feel the need for people to be dumped since we’re ten games back. A lot of time what the public thinks fits for a club, may not be. And so you can’t force trades. At the same time, even if you want to [make trades], that doesn’t mean you get what you wish [for]."
Hendry went on to talk about what his team needs to do over the next 70 ballgames. "It’s a balancing act of [doing] what’s best for the organization, playing enough people to be ready for next year, and then at the same time you have a lot of major league baseball games that you must try to win every day."
Could be a smokescreen, but there just doesn’t sound like there’s much enthusiasm for dealing.
One of Lee Elia's 15%
Unfair. He's human like everyone else and can make mistakes like we ALL can.
Overall, I think he’s did a pretty good job of trying to set the Cubs up to win in 2007/08. They just didn’t get the job done and the window on those teams and players is expiring.
That being said, I think it’s likely he’ll be replaced at the end of the year. With whom, I do not know.
We have met the enemy and they are us! ~ Walt Kelly, Pogo, 1971
Human, yes. MLB GM,no.
"Don't shed any tears. You think about this: Here I am, the grandson of a slave. And here the whole world was excited about whether I was going into the Hall of Fame or not. We've come a long ways." BUCK O'NEIL
by HotDogDude on Jul 20, 2010 9:26 AM CDT via mobile up reply actions
I don't believe it's unfair at all
yes we all make mistakes, being “human” but at some point, when the mistakes pile up, you can be called incompetent without it being “mean”.
I’ve never been impressed with Hendry. When he was given almost unlimited resources he spent them, and not wisely. What GM couldn’t throw an insane amount of money around and get a few good players? His incompetence lies in the fact that since Kenny Lofton left, (after 2003) the man has failed to get a legitimate leadoff man, and since Sammy Sosa has left he has failed to have anything other than a collection of spare parts playing right field.
We’ve gone through a steady stream of closers, including a couple who were absolute surprises to the franchise itself in Wood and Dempster and have handed out some of the most ludicrous contracts on the face of the planet.
He has made some decent trades, mostly with teams desperate to shed payroll. He’s also made some trades that were clearly “holy crap, I’ve held onto this player until his market value was nil, now I’ll dump him for anything”
by HuskerCorner on Jul 20, 2010 9:38 AM CDT up reply actions
This
and any GM that gives Jason Marquis a 3-year deal and Aaron Fu(^*^% Miles a 2-year deal should be fired immediately.
by salparadise23 on Jul 20, 2010 9:39 AM CDT up reply actions
Throw in any GM that gives an unproven rookie a NTC
along with his huge signing bonus as reason for firing
by HuskerCorner on Jul 20, 2010 9:49 AM CDT up reply actions
I hated the Marquis deal at the time
But we ended up getting reasonable value out of it.
"Wait, are you saying I'm a sunshine-pumping, koolaid-drinking, Soriano-loving, rainbow-rising, unicorn-riding, double-clutching, Sweet Lou-backing, Hendry-supporting, hey hey whaddya saying, Cubs are going all the waying, glass is overflowing, Rothschild is all-knowing, Cubs fan? - ballhawk
Well, except when we traded away the last year of it for, essentially, nothing.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
which was the real problem for me
Jason Marquis was NOT a god awful pitcher. He wasn’t really “good” but he wasn’t seeping pustules bad. However, there was no need to give him a 3 year deal. And then there was no need to trade him for a reliever we had no interest in keeping.
by HuskerCorner on Jul 20, 2010 11:32 AM CDT up reply actions
Pokemon do
"A dream you dream alone is only a dream. A dream you dream together is reality." John Lennon
Not much was really said there...
I don’t see that as a smokescreen, but more typical Hendry keeping quiet about things. Whether he is about to make a deal or isn’t even in conversations with other GMs, he never really tells much to the media.
This quote simply dodges any sort of concrete answer regarding upcoming moves. Pretty standard Hendry IMO.
Sounds like
he’s as stubborn as ever. Old habits/attitudes die hard.
"In order to have a winner, the team must have a feeling of unity; every player must put the team first- ahead of personal glory" - motivational sign at Halas Hall.
I don't know why people here seem to assume Hendry is holding onto Lilly and others
for deals other than us essentially dumping their salary…Hendry states he isn’t getting them and with the team doing so horribly, the economy sucking, I can see that they wouldn’t be there. It has been stated that we shouldn’t have waited two starts for Lilly, about the same for others…we do need a new GM in my opinion yes but I don’t see he’s keeping these guys when there’s a trade with salary relief or a lot of valuable prospects out there because trades haven’t been made.
Shut Up Joe Morgan
by Sandberg's evil twin on Jul 20, 2010 12:25 PM CDT up reply actions
At least they scored 5 runs....
Offense seems to be coming around a bit more since the break….
And more importantly
Ramirez contributed to that run total
Lilly
I think it would behoove Hendry to move TRL before tomorrow’s start, lest he risk a shelling and the resulting effect on his value. While he is at it, let’s send Howry home early and take a look at some more young guys(diamond?).
by Mmurton on Jul 20, 2010 8:02 AM CDT via mobile reply actions
On the other hand he could throw a 1-hitter
and his trade value goes up again. Who knows with this bipolar team?
Too long
It shouldn’t have taken that long to figure out that Berg and Atkins are what they are….middling cannon fodder. Same as a whole host of others….Jeff Stevens, Jeff Samardzija, James Russell and on and on.
Guys wil marginal fastball command, marginal breaking ball command and average velocity are roster placeholders. The Cubs would be better off with Samardzija getting pasted outing after outing for no other reason than to trot out their large investment in him.
"When the day comes with that last winning run and I'm crying and covered in beer. I'll look to the sky and know I was right to think someday we'll go all the way." - Vedder
The Cubs would be better off with Samardzija getting pasted outing after outing for no other reason than to trot out their large investment in him.
Agreed. At least see what he can do.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
Samardzjia Iowa stats:
6-1, 2.86 ERA, 53 2/3 innings, 35 BB and 52 K’s.
For the future compare to Thomas Diamond (AAA all-star game starter):
5-3 (got hit hard last night, these stats are before giving up 8 ER in 4 innings)
2.86 ERA, 94.3 innings, 36 BB and 92 K’s. K per inning is impressive.
This is only the beginning....Lou Pinella end of '07 season and Chicago Transit Authority (the band when they were really good).
A lot more K's for Diamond.
Nevertheless, Diamond could be called up in September. Let him keep starting at Iowa. Give Shark a spot — he can’t be worse than Atkins or Berg.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
Has he developed a better pitching repertoire at Iowa.
He was pretty much a one trick pony before…
We have met the enemy and they are us! ~ Walt Kelly, Pogo, 1971
similar K/I
but I’d like to actually see the reverse. Call up Diamond for the pen (unless we need a spot start Silva-DL or something like that).
It’s unlikely they’ll let him compete for a rotation spot next season given all the options we have (Wells, Gorz, Jackson, Cashner) and start to get a look at Diamond as a ML pitcher in the pen. I’d rather have Diamond able to fill Cashner’s role in the pen and give Cashner a chance at starting again next season (try to maximize his value) than give Diamond starts
I’ve seen the Shark at the ML level routine enough that I’m not going to be swayed by 50 IP at AAA. I want to see much better command before I’d promote him again. So for now I’d prefer to keep rolling him out as a starter every 5th day in AAA
follow me on twitter for fantasy sports analysis @http://twitter.com/DrewDinkmeyer or get the full analysis at www.fantistics.com
by DartmouthCubsFan on Jul 20, 2010 9:07 AM CDT up reply actions
The bigger difference is in the BB rate...
both are about 1 K/IP (Diamond just has a lot more IP. But where they differ is that Diamond’s BB rate is about half that of Samardzija.
I agree with DartmouthCubFan. Samardzija still doesn’t seem to have the command for MLB pitching (based on that high walk rate). I think the bouncing him around the past two years did him a developmental disservice. It doesn’t appear that he’s progressed a lot.
On an aside, I hope we aren’t doing the same thing to Cashner. Maybe the Cubs just envision him as a reliever long-term. But if they have any hopes of developing him as a starter, this switch back to the pen this season probably came at a bad time in his development.
by SouthernCub on Jul 20, 2010 10:22 AM CDT up reply actions
I'd been wondering about the absence of Shark up until yesterday
then I checked his I-Cubs stats. Blech.
"I'll take one in the mouth over the eyes any day". - AJ Pierzynski
by lostinthevines on Jul 20, 2010 9:38 AM CDT up reply actions
If there will be a legacy for the Jim Hendry regime
it will be extremely poor scouting on all levels
by HuskerCorner on Jul 20, 2010 8:36 AM CDT up reply actions
And handing out NTCs like sticks of gum
"I'll take one in the mouth over the eyes any day". - AJ Pierzynski
by lostinthevines on Jul 20, 2010 9:39 AM CDT up reply actions
Incorrect.
His legacy will be that he gave out some terrible FA contracts in order to win in 2007 and 2008 for a team who’s window was closing.
Scouting has not been the Cubs’ organation’s biggest problem, not even close.
"You've got to get your damn shirts rolled up and go out and kick somebody's ass. That's what you've got to do. Period." -- Lou Piniella
The contracts and poor performance of the players that
were given those contracts: Bradley, Fukudome, Zambrano.
Scouting has hardly been a problem for the organization, especially since Tim Wilken came on.
Hendry has made some foolish decisions, but I hardly believe he will be remembered for poor scouting.
"You've got to get your damn shirts rolled up and go out and kick somebody's ass. That's what you've got to do. Period." -- Lou Piniella
oh and I forgot Soriano.
"You've got to get your damn shirts rolled up and go out and kick somebody's ass. That's what you've got to do. Period." -- Lou Piniella
Grabow, Aaron Miles.
Shut Up Joe Morgan
by Sandberg's evil twin on Jul 20, 2010 12:34 PM CDT up reply actions
Yes, but those contracts, were small
in comparison to the others I listed. Regardless the players who got them have not lived up to expectations.
Other than Byrd, DeRosa, and Lilly how many good free agent signings has JH made in recent years?
"You've got to get your damn shirts rolled up and go out and kick somebody's ass. That's what you've got to do. Period." -- Lou Piniella
So I'm at the game last night and an Astros fan is near me
This guy is wearing an Astros jersey and sitting 2 rows in front of me and 8 seats over. As the Astros start the game by batting around, he’ standing and holding up fingers to let everyone know the score – 5 on one hand, zero on the other. And he’s turning around to make sure everyone sees him, and that he knows everyone see him.
By the 6th inning, he’s decided to try to make nice to some Cubs fans. I had none of it and ignored him as he walked near me – I had my wife and kid with me, enough drama.
But some people would have none of it. Best line I have heard this year – “You put the Ass in Astros!”
"They come to see me strike out, hit a home run, or run into a fence. I try to accommodate them at least one way every game." - Gorman Thomas
Scoreboard
"I'll take one in the mouth over the eyes any day". - AJ Pierzynski
by lostinthevines on Jul 20, 2010 9:40 AM CDT up reply actions
Just one quick comment this morning.
This team is a below .500 team, teams that are below .500 @ this point sometimes tend this point in the season play a few good games then lose a streak. IMHO this is what I see the Cubs doing.
BTW I’m NOT SAYING I want them to lose, have a fire sale or that they AREN’T capable of winning.
"Actually, Major League Baseball is more like Neverland
And the Lost Boys don’t have to ever grow up. Some do, anyway, but that is not a universal characteristic"
by Madison Cub Fan on Jul 20, 2010 8:24 AM CDT reply actions
Excellent Legal Disclaimer
"They come to see me strike out, hit a home run, or run into a fence. I try to accommodate them at least one way every game." - Gorman Thomas
by RiskyBusiness on Jul 20, 2010 8:32 AM CDT up reply actions
Interest accrues from date of purchase.
Actor portrayal.
We have met the enemy and they are us! ~ Walt Kelly, Pogo, 1971
ok 2nd quick comment
Glad my disclaimer, was able to provide amusement in a thread that doesn’t have much to be amused about.
"Actually, Major League Baseball is more like Neverland
And the Lost Boys don’t have to ever grow up. Some do, anyway, but that is not a universal characteristic"
by Madison Cub Fan on Jul 20, 2010 9:13 AM CDT up reply actions
animated driver on animated course
How many legal disclaimers could you add to watching last night’s Cubs game?
"They come to see me strike out, hit a home run, or run into a fence. I try to accommodate them at least one way every game." - Gorman Thomas
by RiskyBusiness on Jul 20, 2010 9:16 AM CDT up reply actions
Send before midnight tonight so you don't forget.
We have met the enemy and they are us! ~ Walt Kelly, Pogo, 1971
Be sure to add all disclaimers before noon today.
After that, all the warranties expire.
I didn't believe it last August, but it turns out that love survives.
Mount Washington conquered July 5, 2010
State high point count: 3/50
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Jul 20, 2010 9:42 AM CDT up reply actions
"I'm not a doctor, but I play one on TV..."
We have met the enemy and they are us! ~ Walt Kelly, Pogo, 1971
"I'm a doctor, not a bricklayer."
I didn't believe it last August, but it turns out that love survives.
Mount Washington conquered July 5, 2010
State high point count: 3/50
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Jul 20, 2010 9:50 AM CDT up reply actions
No animals were hurt in the making of this film...
We have met the enemy and they are us! ~ Walt Kelly, Pogo, 1971
Consult your doctor before taking any medications.
We have met the enemy and they are us! ~ Walt Kelly, Pogo, 1971
Possible side effects include burping.
I didn't believe it last August, but it turns out that love survives.
Mount Washington conquered July 5, 2010
State high point count: 3/50
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Jul 20, 2010 9:53 AM CDT up reply actions
legal disclaimer
probably needs to be added to anyone who actually looks at the “0.6%” playoff odds on the left hand sidebar and interprets them as slim chances the Cubs will compete this year
follow me on twitter for fantasy sports analysis @http://twitter.com/DrewDinkmeyer or get the full analysis at www.fantistics.com
by DartmouthCubsFan on Jul 20, 2010 8:33 AM CDT up reply actions
stand corrected
I know it had been below 10% for weeks and last i remembered was 0.6%
The point is a smart organization and fan-base realizes the chances are extremely unlikely and starts to put the wheels in motion to improving the clubs chances in the future. As fans who like to talk about possibilities of improving the club in the future (look to a brighter day ahead), it doesn’t mean we’re hoping the Cubs lose now. It simply means we realize its an extreme long shot to contend this year, and the quickest way back to happiness (sustained contention) is to start planning for down the road
follow me on twitter for fantasy sports analysis @http://twitter.com/DrewDinkmeyer or get the full analysis at www.fantistics.com
by DartmouthCubsFan on Jul 20, 2010 8:52 AM CDT up reply actions
I was holding out hope.
I won’t give up completely, but in general I agree with you. It’s just the nature of that planning that you and I may disagree about.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
As was discussed yesterday ...
the pessimists-versus-optimists debate about rebuilding with this team — at this point — doesn’t really apply, aside from the future of Ted Lilly. And while Lilly is not insignificant, I don’t think the future of the franchise hinges on the prospects we get for a good, but not great, starter who is on the last year of his contract.
So you're saying there's a chance
"Dad gum right this games gonna be played under protest. . . I guarantee this is gonna be one protest that's upheld." --Hawk Harrelson, 6/24/07
by RynoHoF on Jul 20, 2010 11:49 AM CDT via mobile up reply actions
I still can't fingure out why Howry and Nady are still on this team
And just to rub salt in this year’s wounds, Miles is actually contributing to St. Louis’ success this year. I guess there’s something to be said for accountability and playing for a championship organization.
I've got no gripe with Howry.
He was a scrap-heap pick up that’s costing the team very little — and his presence means less of guys like Justin Berg (who many people on this site were excited about four months ago).
Only a 3.86 ERA as a Cub this season too
He’s obviously not good, but not the biggest problem with the bullpen either.
He has a 3.69 ERA for the past 6 1/2 seasons
Dating back to 2004.
I know he really sucked for us 2 years ago. And I know he really sucked for Arizona earlier. But the guy has a track record as a decent reliever.
What was wrong with the 63 appearances with a 3.39 ERA for the Giants last year
He was 35, after all . . .
Wasn't there a reason he wasn't brought back to the Cubs after his first go-round
I just don’t understand bringing him back unless he was a beloved Cub. Which he wasn’t. That’s all I’m saying
Who cares if he played here before
He made the bullpen better by being more effective than the overmatched rookie(s) he replaced. Your hatred for the guy is blinding you to this fact.
He is a low cost crappy pitcher in the pen
and low risk because we are paying him scale, but still a crappy pitcher. I don’t really understand you thinking he’s being picked on…he’s had a few good starts, perhaps overall been marginally better for awhile than some of the rookies…yay? He still stinks, that we might have gotten a little value out of him is not exactly a big deal.
Shut Up Joe Morgan
by Sandberg's evil twin on Jul 20, 2010 12:40 PM CDT up reply actions
I give Hendry a pass on this one
The team obviously needed bullpen help at the time they signed Howry. I prefer taking a flyer on him in a year like this than trade away value for another Grabow. At least he only cost money, and not much of that.
"...unless he was a beloved Cub..."
Just stop.
"I'll take one in the mouth over the eyes any day". - AJ Pierzynski
by lostinthevines on Jul 20, 2010 9:44 AM CDT up reply actions
3.86 as a Cub?
That seems unlikely after he had difficulty getting the third out last Thursday.
I didn't believe it last August, but it turns out that love survives.
Mount Washington conquered July 5, 2010
State high point count: 3/50
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Jul 20, 2010 9:13 AM CDT up reply actions
Anyone know how to tell how up to date baseball reference stats are?
http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/h/howrybo01.shtml
Usually by the time a recap is up, BR has updated stats for the previous night’s game . . .
That's correct.
Look at the game logs — that’s the way to tell.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
Then you really won't believe this, but it's true.
Until that blowup last Thursday, his ERA as a Cub was 1.69.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
Oh, I believe it.
I just know a pitcher that’s getting lucky when I see one… and the statistics back it up. His ERA went down, but his peripherals never as a Cubs aren’t any better than they were as a D-Back.
He was actually a much better pitcher in 2008 for the Cubs when he put up a “solid ERA” for the Giants last year. He just got luckier and had a pretty good defense in a pitcher’s park. This year, in two “hitter’s parks”, he’s getting beaten around.
This dude needs to be led out to pasture. All of his innings should be going to the pitchers who have a hope of making something out of their career.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Just North of Wrigley Field
by jameslcrockett on Jul 20, 2010 10:52 AM CDT up reply actions
It doesn't make sense IMHO
He was terrible for the Cubs a couple years ago and they re-sign him. Didn’t this organization realize he wasn’t exactly a fan-favorite the first time around.
His ERA as a Cub in 2008 was over 5.
And it looks like it’s heading that way again this year.
I didn't believe it last August, but it turns out that love survives.
Mount Washington conquered July 5, 2010
State high point count: 3/50
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Jul 20, 2010 9:20 AM CDT up reply actions
2 bad outings is enough to throw out the 19 others?
Come on, can we just admit that this guy is not the biggest hole in our bullpen and worry about replacing him when we’ve fixed the other problems? I really don’t care whether you or Mapmaker hate the guy or not, he’s always been reported to be a good clubhouse presence.
no, because problme fixing is not the issue anymore
We should be moving on to evaluating who will be on our roster next season, and Howry is not one of those. At least if anyone in the Cubs organization has a brain in their heads he’s not
by HuskerCorner on Jul 20, 2010 9:51 AM CDT up reply actions
We still have a slew of younger guys getting their shot to prove themselves in there
A single aging veteran who supposedly has a history of being a leader and teaching the younger guys some things isn’t going to kill us.
Roster space is only wasted ...
if guys who deserve chances don’t get them. So far this season, the following rookie-ish guys have pitched out of the Cubs pen …
Berg, Caridad, Russell, Shark, Stevens, Gray, Cashner, Atkins.
and one of those guys is not pitching now
because we have a 36 year old dude for no reason.
Yes they got a shot. They should get another one. It does no harm, and might actually help to clear up the murky picture for next season.
I don’t get why you don’t grasp that.
by HuskerCorner on Jul 20, 2010 10:02 AM CDT up reply actions
I absolutely grasp that.
I just don’t care that much about it, partly because they’ve gotten playing time, and partly because there’s a good chance you’ll get your wish in the coming weeks.
Don't you get it, madcow?
You have to have an ERA of 0.00. You never can have a bad outing. NEVER! If you do, you’re a bum.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jul 20, 2010 10:26 AM CDT up reply actions
as opposed to the stellar ERAs of ...
Jeff Stevens, Justin Berg, Jeff Gray and Esmalin Caridad.
You have GOT to be kidding.
Caridad, Berg and Gray were flat terrible, and Stevens was woefully inconsistent. Howry has been adequate and nothing more. And any anger about 2008 should be tempered by the fact that he was a big part of the division-winning team in 2007.
Anyway, the decision to start the season with Berg, Caridad, Russell and Shark in the pen is laughable in hindsight. I believe their early-season struggles put the Cubs in “lose-now mode” early.
I don't understand the Howry defense
I said a few times I PERSONALLY don’t like him as a Cub and he has not been good. I also feel he will get worse before the year is done. Just my opinion.
Also, starting the season with Berg, Caridad, Russell and Shark in the pen was because Guzman got hurt. That’s what killed the bullpen
And, sadly, Guzman is likely done as a ML reliever.
I didn't believe it last August, but it turns out that love survives.
Mount Washington conquered July 5, 2010
State high point count: 3/50
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Jul 20, 2010 9:53 AM CDT up reply actions
You don't know that.
Pitchers have come back from injuries like that before.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
So the injury to one guy prompted us to start the year with FOUR ...
who were (basically rookies)? Even if Guzman hadn’t been hurt, three of those guys would have made the opening-day roster.
Waive Howry, fine. I don’t really care that much. But the hatred of him is just over the top.
OMG
I’m not defending the decision to start with those other guys, but Guzman was supposed to be the consistent 8th inning guy. Him getting hurt threw everything upside down.
I don’t hate they guy, I just hate him being on the Cubs. Jesus.
Your words, dude:
“starting the season with Berg, Caridad, Russell and Shark in the pen was because Guzman got hurt”
it was laughable at the beginning too
not just in hindsight. Mostly because you never see a team expecting to compete with that much youth in the pen.
This team was a bad plan from day one.
by HuskerCorner on Jul 20, 2010 9:52 AM CDT up reply actions
I said as much in March.
But I was told Caridad had real promise — never mind that he was our primary setup guy with less than 20 innings in the bigs.
Zambrano appearance not certain as to when.
Z, according to DM Register to report today. There is a double header so could be used, but more likely Wed or Thurs. A lot of rain predicted in Iowa the next few days so everything is up in the air. Official I-Cub statement will not comment on when he appears which is standard for MLB rehab assignments (do not want fans to turn out and then they do not play which leads to many upset ticket buyers).
This is only the beginning....Lou Pinella end of '07 season and Chicago Transit Authority (the band when they were really good).
I turned it off after one inning.
Yep, knew it was likely over already.
I didn't believe it last August, but it turns out that love survives.
Mount Washington conquered July 5, 2010
State high point count: 3/50
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Jul 20, 2010 9:05 AM CDT reply actions
Bet you're glad you didn't stick around Wrigley for that one!
We have met the enemy and they are us! ~ Walt Kelly, Pogo, 1971
Seriously.
I hope things improve on Wednesday, when I head back to the bleachers.
I didn't believe it last August, but it turns out that love survives.
Mount Washington conquered July 5, 2010
State high point count: 3/50
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Jul 20, 2010 9:12 AM CDT up reply actions
The worst thing about Silva's apparent regression?
The Cubs will now have FOUR guys on all the stories written next year about the worst contracts (or most untradeable contracts) in baseball.
Ah, the Hendry legacy.
Here's to hoping...
He ends up back in Japan somehow. Do you really think that could happen?
I don't know.
I’d like to hope so. I can’t imagine he’d want to spend another year on the Cubs’ bench.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
both those
will be 1 yr deals though next year (Silva/Fukudome) and thus won’t be as “untradeable”. You can convince teams to take on a bad contract if the player is performing and has just that season left on it
convincing them to take on multiple years is the problem
follow me on twitter for fantasy sports analysis @http://twitter.com/DrewDinkmeyer or get the full analysis at www.fantistics.com
by DartmouthCubsFan on Jul 20, 2010 9:17 AM CDT up reply actions
key phrase: "if the player is performing"
Silva might get better, but I don’t think Kosuke is going to get enough playing time (if he’s even on the team next year) to perform well enough to draw any interest.
Would be nice to at least get something out of that investment
Guy plays good defense, and can hit righties okay . . . let’s try to maximize that rather than pay someone like Nady to split time.
Maybe there’s room for Sam Fuld for some late inning defense, pinch running, bunting, and all around making Jessica smile?
Cue Jessica.
I didn't believe it last August, but it turns out that love survives.
Mount Washington conquered July 5, 2010
State high point count: 3/50
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Jul 20, 2010 9:25 AM CDT up reply actions
probably not
but you never know
mind you, i’ve argued Fukudome was untradeable for WEEKS which is why I kept saying Byrd was the guy we’d have to trade to free up a spot long-term for Colvin and then a 2nd spot for 2012 if Jackson was ready
so i’m sort of in agreement here
follow me on twitter for fantasy sports analysis @http://twitter.com/DrewDinkmeyer or get the full analysis at www.fantistics.com
by DartmouthCubsFan on Jul 20, 2010 9:21 AM CDT up reply actions
Byrd isn't going to be traded for that reason.
To open up a spot for Colvin? To play Fukudome every day just because he’s under contract?
Teams don’t operate that way.
The best scenario would be to try to get Fukudome back to Japan.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
I wasn't agreeing on trading Byrd.
I was just acknowledging that I understood DCF’s thought process. I understand the logic, though I hope we keep Byrd.
its not just to open up a spot
its the fact byrd could bring back talent in return in a trade as well
in addition while you say “teams don’t operate that way”, i think you’re just as misguided in assuming players will walk away from 14.5 million just to help out the team.
i’d also argue that plenty of teams operate with the foresight to sell assets high and create open roster spots for their young talent when they’re not competing…
follow me on twitter for fantasy sports analysis @http://twitter.com/DrewDinkmeyer or get the full analysis at www.fantistics.com
by DartmouthCubsFan on Jul 20, 2010 9:30 AM CDT up reply actions
i think you’re just as misguided in assuming players will walk away from 14.5 million just to help out the team.
The Mariners managed to help Kenji Johjima work out just such a deal. Fukudome won’t just walk away unless there’s something in Japan that’s at least equal, obviously. It would seem to me that is a possibility.
Johjima, in fact, is having a pretty good year this season in Japan. I suspect Fukudome could return to his previous performance levels if he returned. He just doesn’t seem suited for playing in MLB.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
its happened once
in the history of baseball, does not make it likely
follow me on twitter for fantasy sports analysis @http://twitter.com/DrewDinkmeyer or get the full analysis at www.fantistics.com
by DartmouthCubsFan on Jul 20, 2010 9:39 AM CDT up reply actions
Now that's a silly statement.
How many Japanese position players have played in the major leagues? Ten, maybe 12?
One of them returned. It is certainly not impossible that another one could do the same.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
Great.
It’s a perfectly plausible scenario, and to deny it because it’s “only happened once in the history of baseball” does not take into account that it is possible.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
or
because its happened just once
its a perfectly UNLIKELY scenario
follow me on twitter for fantasy sports analysis @http://twitter.com/DrewDinkmeyer or get the full analysis at www.fantistics.com
by DartmouthCubsFan on Jul 20, 2010 10:11 AM CDT up reply actions
There's a better chance that it won't happen
than it will based on past evidence. Just because he refuted your “could happen” with “it has almost never happened” doesn’t make his statement “silly”
by HuskerCorner on Jul 20, 2010 10:11 AM CDT up reply actions
10?
closer to 15 active and additional 30 in the past
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Major_League_Baseball_players_from_Japan
if we say 1 in 45, we’re talking about percentages in line with the Cubs playoff chances
follow me on twitter for fantasy sports analysis @http://twitter.com/DrewDinkmeyer or get the full analysis at www.fantistics.com
by DartmouthCubsFan on Jul 20, 2010 10:08 AM CDT up reply actions
I did say "position players".
So instead of just googling up a WIkipedia link to try to show me how wrong I am, how about actually counting the number of position players on that list?
Never mind, I did it for you. There are exactly ten.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
You understand 10% likelihood is extremely low right?
by HuskerCorner on Jul 20, 2010 10:12 AM CDT up reply actions
Better than "once in the history of baseball".
Also, I think anyone who denies this is a possibility doesn’t take into account the cultural and other differences that might make it quite attractive for a Japanese player to explore the real, serious possibility of returning to his home country to finish his career.
Fukudome is 33. That’s just about the age where Johjima returned. Johjima didn’t even go back to his original team — someone else signed him.
I’m not saying it’s likely. I’m just saying it’s something I hope the Cubs are helping Fukudome explore; it would not only help him save face but very likely, not lose any money.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
actually, in this case it isn't better. It's exactly the same
Johjima was also extremely unhappy here in the states in general. Not just because he wasn’t playing well here, but because he was basically homesick. I’ve heard no stories like that in Dome’s case.
Dome probably WILL return to Japan, once this contract is up. I think it’s INCREDIBLY UNLIKELY he’ll go out of his way to give up on a contract that is paying him more money than he will ever see again.
by HuskerCorner on Jul 20, 2010 10:18 AM CDT up reply actions
I understand the difference between Fukudome's and Johjima's experience her.
I disagree that Fukudome couldn’t make as much or more than $14 million returning to Japan. In one year? No, no Japanese team will give him that much for one year. But in total? Probably.
I just think it’s something the he and the Cubs should explore.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
But that's the point.
He won’t make 14 million dollars in one year. So why would he go there? He can make 14 million dollars for one more year here, then go back to Japan and make 14 million MORE dollars over the next 3 or 4 years. You do understand that would be more money overall right?
I’m sure the Cubs would explore it in a hearbeat. I don’t understand why you think Dome would, or should. It’s not remotely in his best interests
by HuskerCorner on Jul 20, 2010 10:27 AM CDT up reply actions
The only reason Kosuke would do it ...
is if his pride kept him from sitting on the bench as the Cubs fourth (or fifth) outfielder in 2011. And I don’t think anybody here knows him well enough to say whether that’s even a possibility.
That goes to the question of what his "best interests" are.
Are they better served by getting 100-150 AB as the 25th guy on the 2011 Cubs, THEN going back to Japan one year older?
Or maybe he’d like to play every day in front of his home country fans, in an environment he’s likely more comfortable in.
I know which one I’d pick.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
no, you know which one you'd like Dome to pick
If you were faced with the choice of $14 million guaranteed, or possibly taking much less just to go back to play “everyday” which you were doing already when you left, it would be a hard decision.
Throw in the fact that you have to have a certain kind of ego to play in the majors, one that is probably telling Dome that if he can just make the most of these last few months and then have a good spring he might be able to salvage something in the final year of his contract……..
by HuskerCorner on Jul 20, 2010 10:39 AM CDT up reply actions
It could work
What if a Japanese team offers Kosuke a 3 year/ $30million deal. Do you really believe he wouldn’t sign that deal to guarantee him $16million more in guaranteed money from a Japanese team than he would get from the Cubs.
That probably factored into Jojihma’s decision as well
That could happen
but the likelihood of it happening are incredibly slim. Which was the point all along. Al dreamed up a scenario which has almost never happened, and then belittled someone else when they pointed out it almost never happens
by HuskerCorner on Jul 20, 2010 10:43 AM CDT up reply actions
The person who pointed out it "almost never happens"...
… did not acknowledge that the set of players I am talking about — Japanese position players — amounts to ten people, and they have been playing in MLB for only ten years. It is uncharted territory.
Again, is it “likely”? No. Is it possible? Yes, and I think it is something the Cubs should explore.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
whether or not he acknowledged it
you acted as though your idea was perfectly reasonable, and he was a jackass for claiming otherwise.
by HuskerCorner on Jul 20, 2010 10:49 AM CDT up reply actions
i said it was unlikely
from the start
you countered with an example of it happening once
i responded saying its happened once in the history of baseball (thus STILL not likley)
i then noted the number of japanese players which i didn’t see the note on position making it 10 instead of 45
either way 1 in 10 is STILL UNLIKELY which was my original point
follow me on twitter for fantasy sports analysis @http://twitter.com/DrewDinkmeyer or get the full analysis at www.fantistics.com
by DartmouthCubsFan on Jul 20, 2010 10:57 AM CDT up reply actions
This isn't something that you can cite statistics on...
… exactly BECAUSE there have been so few Japanese position players.
I agree, it is not likely. It is something the Cubs should look into doing.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
why couldn't you?
statistics exist. Therefore you can cite statistics.
by HuskerCorner on Jul 20, 2010 11:02 AM CDT up reply actions
Oh, no.
You’re going to quote statistics on the possibility of a player leaving the US for Japan?
Seriously?
I’m out of this discussion now. This has officially gone nuts.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
Not in a case like this.
This sort of thing REALLY can’t be measured on a spreadsheet.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
How unlikely, Really?
Scott Rolen did the same thing last year. He was set to make something like $10million when the Reds acquired him from the Blue Jays. Jocketty extended/restructured the 1 year remaining on his existing contract into a 3 year deal for more total money, but less average money each year.
Normally, I'd be on board with this thinking.
But Byrd, in addition to having a good year, is worth keeping because of intangibles. I don’t often use this kind of argument, but Byrd is the type of guy the Cubs need.
I’m good with selling high. But the last time the Cubs did this (DeRosa) it had a TON of unintended side effects. I say we keep Byrd.
it also netted us
Chris Archer… pretty good return
not saying the DeRo deal felt right at the time (very different circumstances), but it netted us a pretty good player
follow me on twitter for fantasy sports analysis @http://twitter.com/DrewDinkmeyer or get the full analysis at www.fantistics.com
by DartmouthCubsFan on Jul 20, 2010 9:38 AM CDT up reply actions
I totally agree with you in general, DCF.
But I think Marlon Byrd is a guy to keep.
yes
and it wasn’t so much the trading of derosa as it was the combo of doing that AND letting casey mcgehee leave and in the process leaving the organization devoid of a viable backup at 3B.
by circuitclout on Jul 20, 2010 9:40 AM CDT up reply actions
Please don't bring up Casey McGehee
in this conversation.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jul 20, 2010 10:30 AM CDT up reply actions
Thats true the Cubs could not have seen that coming.
But its just another in a list of failures for the team.
don't tell me what to do
and way to miss my point. he was the only player in the organization at the time that was “big league ready” so the combo of ditching him AND derosa was a poor decision.
by circuitclout on Jul 20, 2010 10:42 AM CDT up reply actions
You make a post in public, prepare to get challenged
Suggesting McGehee was “big-league ready” is a big, big stretch.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jul 20, 2010 10:53 AM CDT up reply actions
Yeah, not sure how Bruce can claim McGehee wasn't big league ready
when, um, he is
by HuskerCorner on Jul 20, 2010 10:55 AM CDT up reply actions
The Brewers were desperate
at third base, so they put him there. It’s not as if Doug Melvin was a soothsayer.
More revisionist history from the fanbase that are the kings of it.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jul 20, 2010 10:58 AM CDT up reply actions
McGehee career batting average = .283
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Jul 20, 2010 11:00 AM CDT up reply actions
I wonder if you ever had heard
of Casey McGehee until he came up at the end of 2008. I can’t recall anybody saying he had a bright future; maybe you did at the time, I don’t recall.
I guess you can’t simply accept people sometimes surprise. Just like sometimes a can’t-miss player misses.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jul 20, 2010 11:07 AM CDT up reply actions
Who's arguing wether or not MeGehee was a hot prospect?
I’m pointing out what he’s actually done over the course of 800-something AB’s at the ML level.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Jul 20, 2010 11:11 AM CDT up reply actions
Circuit clout was.
That’s what NBF was really responding to, SWL.
Shut Up Joe Morgan
by Sandberg's evil twin on Jul 20, 2010 12:51 PM CDT up reply actions
and the cubs
playing mike fontenot at 3B wasn’t a sign of desperation?
by circuitclout on Jul 20, 2010 11:00 AM CDT up reply actions
Freel was real deperation
Fontenot was only semi-desperation after Miles performed desperately badly.
And then there was no one in Des Moines the team could bring up….
Saying that McGehee was major league ready because he played well in the major leagues
isn’t revisionist history. It’s HISTORY. If I were to say that Casey McGehee hit .400 with 1 billion home runs and won the World Series in 1929, THAT would be revisionist history.
by HuskerCorner on Jul 20, 2010 11:08 AM CDT up reply actions
he played 9 games
for Cubs in 2008 for what its worth.
"You've got to get your damn shirts rolled up and go out and kick somebody's ass. That's what you've got to do. Period." -- Lou Piniella
This is revisionist history
They weren’t desperate and in fact they didn’t “put” him there. If anyone is the king of revisionist history, you’d certainly be in consideration.
Two reasons
1) They didn’t have anywhere for him to play.
2) He didn’t look major league ready.
The Brewers simply just took a gamble and it paid dividends. It happens sometimes. For example, who would have guessed that Lou Brock would have had a Hall of Fame career after being traded to the Cardinals? Same thing.
RIP Ronnie James Dio (July 10, 1942 - May 16, 2010).
No
Considering we got lucky on the trades for Fergie Jenkins and Ryne Sandberg, I’d say it’s not a trend. Trading and free agency is a giant crapshoot.
RIP Ronnie James Dio (July 10, 1942 - May 16, 2010).
Didn't McGehee
start last season at 2B for the Brewers? I know this has nothing to do with him being major league ready.
The Cubs missed on him clearly, they also didn’t expect Ramirez to miss half of last season and were confident Fontenot/Miles (barf) could get the job done at second.
Was McGehee out of options with the Cubs?
"You've got to get your damn shirts rolled up and go out and kick somebody's ass. That's what you've got to do. Period." -- Lou Piniella
No, we wanted to move him off the 40 man though
And that meant letting him get claimed if another team saw something in him, which the Brewers did.
McGehee career OPS = .806
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Jul 20, 2010 10:55 AM CDT up reply actions
feel free to "challenge" me
you still haven’t addressed my original point or offered anything close to a sensible argument. mcgehee made it to the majors as a september call-up for the cubs in 2008 after spending parts of three seasons at AAA. he and derosa were the only viable backups at 3B you had in the system and getting rid of both in the same offseason was a terrible idea.
by circuitclout on Jul 20, 2010 11:06 AM CDT up reply actions
But JH had signed Miles!
Plus we had Lou’s favorite player-Bobby Scales! But i guess he was needed to play LF everyday…
Technically they had Fox too,
but Lou didn’t have the stones to play at third until well after he was needed there. They guy was hitting .430 in AAA into late May, and was wasted. I know his fielding would’ve been atrocious at third on a regular basis, but it couldn’t have been any worse than playing Miles, Fontenot, or Scales there.
"You've got to get your damn shirts rolled up and go out and kick somebody's ass. That's what you've got to do. Period." -- Lou Piniella
It still amazes me that Bobby Scales got as much playing time as he did last year
by HuskerCorner on Jul 20, 2010 11:11 AM CDT up reply actions
It was comical.
He actually had some nice pinch-hits, but started far too many games. I guess Lou wanted to get him his moment in the sun.
"You've got to get your damn shirts rolled up and go out and kick somebody's ass. That's what you've got to do. Period." -- Lou Piniella
kinda
the cubs may have known that he could stand at 3B but fox wasn’t spending any time there. so far as i can tell he played three games there in 2008 and one in 2007.
by circuitclout on Jul 20, 2010 11:17 AM CDT up reply actions
I know, which is why I said "technically"
but he was primarily a DH and outfielder by 2009. He came up as a catcher and third baseman though. It would have been a stretch to play him at third every day last year while Ramirez was out, but 3 days a week? His bat (while it was still hot and league was still throwing him fastballs) could have helped.
"You've got to get your damn shirts rolled up and go out and kick somebody's ass. That's what you've got to do. Period." -- Lou Piniella
And that is I think what some were missing
I had a quite a few discussion with people who claimed I had bought into the “Jake Fox Hype” because I wanted him playing more than he was.
That wasn’t the case, but I wanted him playing when he was hitting and Lou didn’t do it.
by HuskerCorner on Jul 20, 2010 11:21 AM CDT up reply actions
Whatever
Thank God fans don’t run major-league franchises.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jul 20, 2010 11:11 AM CDT up reply actions
Didn't Ricketts claim he was a fan of the Cubs?
by HuskerCorner on Jul 20, 2010 11:12 AM CDT up reply actions
which part of his question was idiotic?
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Jul 20, 2010 11:29 AM CDT up reply actions
fortunately ...
three of them expire after next season, and Soriano isn’t the drag on the team he was in 2009.
But STILL …
Piniella
I didn't believe it last August, but it turns out that love survives.
Mount Washington conquered July 5, 2010
State high point count: 3/50
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Jul 20, 2010 9:16 AM CDT up reply actions
I somehow knew they were going to do this.
They crush Roy Halladay…. and then follow it up by getting trashed by an awful Astros team.
That’s sooooo Cubs 2010.
"You win because of the quarterback. We have to get that position stabilized. We're fixated on that." -- Jerry Angelo (12.30.2008)
Jerry Angelo trades for Jay Cutler! (4.2.2009)
This is kind of silly
Silva should have been offered in trade several starts ago (and maybe he was); right now, his trade value is pretty close to zero.
The idea that we could have sold high on Silva implies that there are other GM’s out there of such gross incompetence that they have never heard of Carlos Silva. I am sure Hendry would have loved to move Silva but after 2 years of atrocious pitching preceded by a career of mediocrity, 3 months of solid play doesn’t suddenly make his awful contract seem attractive. Especially when his peripherals pointed to a regression.
Gone are the Victor Zambrano-for-Scott-Kazmir trades. Modern front offices are smarter than that.
by Wreckard on Jul 20, 2010 9:22 AM CDT reply actions 1 recs
peripherals didn't point to THAT big of a regression
the improved changeup and the completely remade approach (throwing the changeup a lot more) gave Silva an FIP in the low 4’s
Obv he was outpitching that and was due for “some” regression, but his skills were indicative of a solid mid rotation starter.
I’d agree if the peripherals showed him as a low 5’s FIP pitcher which is where he was before, but the revamped approach made his peripherals actually look like he could hold up
these last two starts have also come on the heels of some concerns over the knee injury, so while it will all look like regression in the final numbers, there might just be something to him pitching a bit hurt here as well
not saying your point isnt valid, teams were going to be cautious given the history, but if we asked for nothing but salary relief (1.5 yrs, 11 million) for a mid rotation starter, that deal is about fair value. and the peripherals suggested he was a mid rotation starter with his revamped approach and improved changeup
follow me on twitter for fantasy sports analysis @http://twitter.com/DrewDinkmeyer or get the full analysis at www.fantistics.com
by DartmouthCubsFan on Jul 20, 2010 9:27 AM CDT up reply actions
Right.
And no one was asking for a Scott Kazmir type in return…. just the salary relief.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
Except I think GM's would have been leery on believing the new improved Carlos Silva was real
I’ll admit I’m a pessimist when it comes to Silva but I expected this regression.
i agree
they’d be leery. I noted as much
but i dont think its an automatic discredit. Especially if the argument is front offices are savvy enough statistically. Statistically he looked ok
follow me on twitter for fantasy sports analysis @http://twitter.com/DrewDinkmeyer or get the full analysis at www.fantistics.com
by DartmouthCubsFan on Jul 20, 2010 9:40 AM CDT up reply actions
Where is the trade market for 5+ FIP pitchers owed $10M+?
Like you said, his peripherals pointed to him being the mediocre pitcher he’s always been. I am not saying the pitcher he’s been the last 3 starts is the real Carlos Silva, but I find the idea that someone would be willing to commit over $10M to him pretty far-fetched, given his history.
The fact is you aren’t hearing any rumors about guys like Silva, Millwood, etc. And teams certainly aren’t going to go for those kind of players when there are significantly better options (Lilly, Carmona, Westbrook) out there.
In my opinion Silva is tradeable – I’m not saying he isn’t – but not until August, when all the better options are off the table and the trade deadline has passed.
that's not what i said....
his peripherals pointed to him being a low 4’s FIP pitcher, not 5+
in fact his FIP RIGHT NOW is 3.8
http://www.fangraphs.com/statss.aspx?playerid=973&position=P
follow me on twitter for fantasy sports analysis @http://twitter.com/DrewDinkmeyer or get the full analysis at www.fantistics.com
by DartmouthCubsFan on Jul 20, 2010 10:02 AM CDT up reply actions
superior options like Ted Lilly?
Lilly FIP – 4.70
Silva FIP – 3.80
follow me on twitter for fantasy sports analysis @http://twitter.com/DrewDinkmeyer or get the full analysis at www.fantistics.com
by DartmouthCubsFan on Jul 20, 2010 10:02 AM CDT up reply actions
Your assesment suggests then that Henrdy is probably the worst GM in the Bigs...
O.K., Fine.
"Don't shed any tears. You think about this: Here I am, the grandson of a slave. And here the whole world was excited about whether I was going into the Hall of Fame or not. We've come a long ways." BUCK O'NEIL
by HotDogDude on Jul 20, 2010 9:43 AM CDT via mobile up reply actions
That was an exchange of bad contracts, nothing more
I’m not a huge Hendry supporter but I also would never call him the worst in the bigs. Just ask Houston and Kansas City if they’d like to trade GMs with us.
Silva should have been traded?
Al, I have to ask, did you call for Silva to be traded before he had these two terrible outings? If so, fine, but if not, are you suggesting Hendry should somehow have known he would have had these awful outings?
I didn't make a specific call for that, no.
However, I wouldn’t have been unhappy if they had done so.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
silva is a sunk cost.
the whole point was to move bradley and save some scratch and you’ve done that, so no need to fret over what to do with him. if the knee is acting up put him on the DL and let one of jackson, diamond, cashner, samardzija or even marshall take a few turns thru the rotation. there is also no need to keep bob howry around opening another spot for a young pitcher. if you can move some money at the deadline there is no reason left not to pocket the money, even if the return in talent is mediocre.
the bullpen ...
already has Mitch Atkins, Jeff Russell and Justin Berg. Do we really need to open a spot for another kid? I for one can’t WAIT to see Esmalin Caridad serve up some more grand slams!
The Howry hatred around here is downright ridiculous.
i don't hate howry
i don’t much like him. but he serves no purpose on this ballclub now or in the future. so yeah, i’d rather take a look at say, blake parker, than see more of howry.
by circuitclout on Jul 20, 2010 9:43 AM CDT up reply actions
fair enough, I suppose
I wouldn’t be surprised if Howry is traded or put on waivers next month, actually.
you could DFA him today
and you’d be no worse for the wear
by circuitclout on Jul 20, 2010 9:46 AM CDT up reply actions
What's the point of keeping a rusty veteran who may or may not implode
Some of you just don’t get that we aren’t going to compete. If it were April, that argument would make sense. It’s late July, we’re not in the race.
This is EXACTLY when you make room for the kids
by HuskerCorner on Jul 20, 2010 9:45 AM CDT up reply actions
OK. Now I'm laughing out loud.
I’m well aware that this team isn’t going to make the postseason. I made comments to that effect in mid-May (you can look it up!). So stop painting me with the Kool-Aid brush, OK?
My point is that we already have kids in the bullpen — four of them, in fact. I have no issue with the Cubs ditching Howry to give another kid a spot. What baffles me is that so many BCBers think that making such a move — when we’ve seen almost 10 youngsters in the pen this year — is SO important.
We’re talking about a mop-up position in our bullpen. I won’t shed a tear if Howry is released and Shark or Gray or some other AAAA dude gets a few appearances. But can we stop acting like it’s something of such amazing significance?
so
like a convenience store across from a school the limit on kids in the store at one time is four? i’m not sure i understand your point. you seem to be the only one attaching significance to howry.
by circuitclout on Jul 20, 2010 9:58 AM CDT up reply actions
And now I'M laughing out loud
because it DOES have signifigance. It’s about seeing who is ready for a shot next season. We have a roster spot that would cost us almost nothing to vacate, and instead we’re carrying a veteran who doesn’t help us at all this season and won’t be here next year.
Yes we have a lot of kids in the bullpen. We should have one more. And it should be Shark or Berg or some other AAAA guy, because (especially with Shark) they are question marks. Shark has been pitching better in Iowa. Has he finally figured something out? That is a question that we could take a step in answering by bringing him up now and throwing him into the fire.
But instead you want to keep an old guy who has no future on the team…..just cuz?
by HuskerCorner on Jul 20, 2010 9:58 AM CDT up reply actions
We've had eight rookie-ish guys get time in the bullpen this year ...
and four of them are currently with the team. I’m more than fine ditching Howry. But I just don’t think we need to do so to give the kids more playing time. They’ve had a lot.
so what would be
an acceptable reason to remove howry from the roster, in your opinion? i thought seeing if someone else that may have future in the organization could do the job for a few years at the league minimum was as good a reason as any, but apparently i’m mistaken.
by circuitclout on Jul 20, 2010 10:02 AM CDT up reply actions
So we give the dude who has absolutely no shot at being here past this season
more playing time why exactly? You keep saying the kids got their shot. I don’t understand why you think giving a washed up has been more playing time is better than giving another kid one more shot.
It’s just weird
by HuskerCorner on Jul 20, 2010 10:03 AM CDT up reply actions
I just think this whole point is fairly insignificant.
I would be just fine if Howry gets waived. I also won’t be outraged if he stays because the kids have had chances, and because we have four rookies in the pen right now and several have had chances.
I just don't get the approach that "the kids have had chances"
There’s simply no good reason not to give them MORE chances. NONE.
by HuskerCorner on Jul 20, 2010 10:16 AM CDT up reply actions
Al and I got in a big disagreement in March ...
because I couldn’t see why the Cubs wouldn’t try Jeff Baker in the outfield. It just made so much sense to me because it would have added to the team’s versatility. Al repeatedly said he just didn’t see the point.
I think you and I are arguing not about substance, but about importance. I don’t think the future of the Cubs organization will be affected very much by releasing Howry and giving someone like Jeff Gray some big-league time. You clearly do.
As I said repeatedly, I’d be fine releasing Howry. I just don’t get the level of rancor about his continued presence at this point.
You simply don't know what 20-30 extra inings could do if given to a kid
and there’s no reason not to see what it can do, when the alternative is a 36 year old has been.
The level of rancor, at least on my end is that there is no reason why Howry should be on this club. NONE. When we acquired him, it was to fix the pen. The pen is not a problem anymore, because we are not in contention. It would cost almost nothing to get rid of him.
by HuskerCorner on Jul 20, 2010 10:25 AM CDT up reply actions
Fine. Whatever.
At this point, I’d be good with the Cubs cutting Howry to end this argument — which I was trying to do gracefully in my previous post.
ok
just admit you are wrong and move on then.
by circuitclout on Jul 20, 2010 10:35 AM CDT up reply actions
well, your not right either
but i’m willing to leave it at it doesn’t really matter either way but it’s still a better idea to let someone that might have a future get his brains beat in this year in the hopes that it will help a year or two down the road.
by circuitclout on Jul 20, 2010 10:39 AM CDT up reply actions
never said that
you are the one that keeps adding gravity to the 7th spot in the bullpen.
by circuitclout on Jul 20, 2010 10:43 AM CDT up reply actions
This is why blogs get frustrating.
Defending your argument equates can be construed as making a mountain out of a molehill.
doubt it all you want
I KNOW future of the Cubs organization is not encapsulated in Howry. So why keep him?
by HuskerCorner on Jul 20, 2010 10:51 AM CDT up reply actions
Dude.
I’m not advocating keeping him. I’m just saying that keeping him isn’t that big a deal.
Waive him, trade him, whatever. I really don’t care that much. My only defense of Howry is that he hasn’t been terrible since returning, and that his departure isn’t something the Cubs should be incredibly concerned about.
this is pointless
whether or not you think it is a “big deal” has no bearing on the conversation. i think it’’s pretty clear that it is in the best interests of the organization to say goodbye to bob howry at this point.
by circuitclout on Jul 20, 2010 10:56 AM CDT up reply actions
this IS pointless
And it stopped being fun a while ago.
gave you an out
a while ago but you didn’t want to take it.
by circuitclout on Jul 20, 2010 11:28 AM CDT up reply actions
He was more than willing to say that letting Howry go was justified
He just disagreed on how important it was.
Drop it already.
he was the only person
that ever said it was important in the first place.
or else what?
by circuitclout on Jul 20, 2010 11:37 AM CDT up reply actions
You're the one who brought it up initially.
If you didn’t think it was important, why mention it? I didn’t see any caveats in your original post like "this might not be a big deal … "
From your initial post:
“there is also no need to keep bob howry around opening another spot for a young pitcher.”
Howry has pitched all of 18 innings for the Cubs this year
The idea that he’s taking time away from “kids” who need to develop in the majors is a little far-fetched.
Shark, meanwhile, has actually been able to pitch as a starter in Iowa, which is generally where you develop players, pitching 90 innings so far.
He’s getting a lot more work in AAA. If you think he has any future as a starter you’re better off leaving him in Iowa.
that isn't remotely what you were saying, so don't act like he summed up your point
by HuskerCorner on Jul 20, 2010 10:04 AM CDT up reply actions
Oh, come on.
Now, you’re putting words in my mouth. I thanked Wreckard. I didn’t tell him “Thank you for summing up my feelings exactly.”
Wreckard made a good point (that I hadn’t made) that reinforces my argument. And I thanked him.
Do I need permission to do something like that?
He has pitched 18 innings so far.
How many innings will he end up with? It’s not just about the time he served, it’s about the time he will serve from now until the end of the season if Hendry is bound and determined to keep him on the roster.
That’s still 18 innings some kid could still be using as an audition by the way
by HuskerCorner on Jul 20, 2010 10:05 AM CDT up reply actions
That’s still 18 innings some kid could still be using as an audition by the way
That’s a good point. It’s unfortunate that they don’t keep track of statistics in Iowa, so we have no way of knowing who’s doing well there and who’s doing poorly. Especially since no one from the Cubs organization watches those games to keep tabs on the kids.
Instead we need to rely on putting those kids in the back of the bullpen and dust them off once a week for an inning of work to see if they’re good.
I don’t know much about baseball, but that seems like a terrible way to run things. Fire Hendry
samardzija
hasn’t taken back-to-back turns in the rotation in over a month and has only made five starts, not exactly maximizing his opportunities and innings.
by circuitclout on Jul 20, 2010 10:10 AM CDT up reply actions
No need to hate Howry...
I saw the 3 fame series in Seattle and attended all BP where Howry was THE ONLY Cub player to sign the kids balls and caps. There were an impressive number of fans sporting Cubs gear. About 40 per cent of Safeco was Cub fans. One of the beer guys was calling it “Wrigley NW.” I give Howry props for getting that the team has rabid fans on the road and acknowledges it. The only other guys that went over to fans at BP were Soto, Lou, Sinatro and Colvin.
"Don't shed any tears. You think about this: Here I am, the grandson of a slave. And here the whole world was excited about whether I was going into the Hall of Fame or not. We've come a long ways." BUCK O'NEIL
by HotDogDude on Jul 20, 2010 9:52 AM CDT via mobile up reply actions
Really now? You want to keep him because he's good with the fans?
That’s ridiculous.
"Don't shed any tears. You think about this: Here I am, the grandson of a slave. And here the whole world was excited about whether I was going into the Hall of Fame or not. We've come a long ways." BUCK O'NEIL
by HotDogDude on Jul 20, 2010 10:22 AM CDT via mobile up reply actions
Kinda' thought so
"Don't shed any tears. You think about this: Here I am, the grandson of a slave. And here the whole world was excited about whether I was going into the Hall of Fame or not. We've come a long ways." BUCK O'NEIL
by HotDogDude on Jul 20, 2010 10:31 AM CDT via mobile up reply actions
Fans get something in their craws
and can’t get it out of there.
The bullpen was a real problem for the Cubs the first few weeks of the season. Now it isn’t. Maybe Howry had a role in that?
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jul 20, 2010 10:32 AM CDT up reply actions
He has been getting hit a bunch lately....He does not make much. Why then is he not gone?
Its time to see the kids.
I wouldn't be surprised if he's released soon.
No inside knowledge. Just a hunch.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
He's hinted he's going to retire after this season
He might do it once the Cubs release him.
I think elgato is 100 percent correct. The levels of disdain for Howry here are ridiculous. People bitched about too many kids in the ‘pen, now they’re bitching about not having enough kids. Go figure.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jul 20, 2010 10:36 AM CDT up reply actions
You are right NOT Bruce!
The cubs are now fighting for a playoff spot and we need to see less of the kids and more Howry!
You know, TJ, I feel about you
the same way elgato does. A little of you goes a long, long way.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jul 20, 2010 10:39 AM CDT up reply actions
Now that's funny.
I didn't believe it last August, but it turns out that love survives.
Mount Washington conquered July 5, 2010
State high point count: 3/50
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Jul 20, 2010 10:42 AM CDT up reply actions
It is what you are implying is it not?
That people are bitching about two many kids in the bullpen? Well that was April….Now it is time for there to be all kids down there. Time to see what we have. Howry innings are wasted innings. I can’t believe you don’t see that. But I shouldn’t be surprised I guess.
It's never a time to have "all kids" in a bullpen
I don’t care how far out you are.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jul 20, 2010 10:44 AM CDT up reply actions
I wouldn't replace marshall or marmol.
But the other pitchers can be kids. People like Grabow and Howry are very replaceable.
Grabow is not replaceable.
At least, not more than phantom injuries will allow when you get disgusted with his performance. He makes far too much money to be traded or released. He will make 4.8 million dollars next year, so buckle up cause you’ll see him a fair amount. Thanks Jim.
Shut Up Joe Morgan
by Sandberg's evil twin on Jul 20, 2010 12:58 PM CDT up reply actions
Well, NBF ...
I wouldn’t intimate that anyone’s being hypocritical unless I saw all of their comments. I don’t know if Husker or anybody else complained about the daycare bullpen in April. Do you?
I didn't point out anybody by name, eg,
but you know as well as I do that it’s true.
Your main points about Howry are right on the money. It isn’t worth people getting this worked up about him.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jul 20, 2010 10:40 AM CDT up reply actions
I know that people criticized the daycare bullpen.
I know that because I criticized it. I couldn’t believe Al and others were optimistic about Caridad/Berg/Russell/Shark starting the year.
But I really don’t know remember who else criticized it, and I don’t know now if anyone is being inconsistent. I think too often you get frustrated because BCBers A, B, and C bitch about something that isn’t consistent with BCBers X, Y and Z.
Please don’t take that as a criticism. It’s just my observation.
That's a good observation, eg
On a person-by-person basis, you’re right. But in general, most posts go one way or another, with a few dissenting voices.
You’re not being inconsistent with your Howry views at all.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jul 20, 2010 10:47 AM CDT up reply actions
I actually DID complain (Not on here as I wasn't here yet)
about the young bullpen in April. I thought it was idiotic to go into the season with that many youngsters in pivotal roles if we were actually trying to compete.
The reason it STILL isn’t hypocritical is because the situation has changed. A bit of nuance Not Bruce either doesn’t get, or refuses to acknowledge
by HuskerCorner on Jul 20, 2010 10:42 AM CDT up reply actions
Depends
How did you feel about the Howry signing in the first place?
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jul 20, 2010 10:43 AM CDT up reply actions
I was supportive of it
I’ll admit that much. I was hoping that he could turn things around in a second tour of Chicago, but it didn’t work out. We needed veteran bullpen help and it was a low risk signing. What’s clear is that he’s not an effective reliever anymore. Oh well.
RIP Ronnie James Dio (July 10, 1942 - May 16, 2010).
I thought it was a panic move, and wouldn't really help the team
Considering he’s had very little action, and has been extremely uneven in his appearances, I’d say I was pretty close to accurate.
What exactly is your point?
by HuskerCorner on Jul 20, 2010 10:45 AM CDT up reply actions
Well, I guess you've never really cared for him at all
Even if he’s been more effective than I would have guessed.
The development of young bullpen arms is not being retarded because Bob Howry is on the Cubs’ roster. I realize the team’s performance elicits carpet-bombing emotions among some people, but it really isn’t worth getting this worked up about.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jul 20, 2010 10:50 AM CDT up reply actions
Exactly how worked up do you think I am?
And the development of young arms absolutely IS being retarded by keeping Bob Howry on the roster. How MUCH they are being retarded can be debated, but for the 1 billionth time, you and elgato simply CANNOT come up with a reason to keep Howry on this roster.
You just want him here “because he hasn’t been terrible” which would be valid if it wasn’t fast approaching August and we weren’t somewhere around 10 games out of first place. Keeping cheap, crappy players over young unproven ones makes no sense at this point.
by HuskerCorner on Jul 20, 2010 10:54 AM CDT up reply actions
Worked up enough to make a healthy number of posts
about it in a relatively short period of time.
It. Just. Doesn’t. Matter.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jul 20, 2010 10:56 AM CDT up reply actions
I like that you make a point to respond over and over again to something that just. doesn't. matter.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Jul 20, 2010 10:57 AM CDT up reply actions
We've all been guilty of that at some point, SWL.
I’m certainly guilty of it today.
my point is that NBF loves to argue his point right up until he no longer has any more points that can't be refuted...
and then he simply dismisses the argument he spent the last 12 posts making by saying it just. doesn’t. matter.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Jul 20, 2010 11:01 AM CDT up reply actions
Whether they're "refuted" or not is questionable
At some point, you just aren’t going to change someone’s mind, or you know exactly what they’re going to say. So it just isn’t worth it.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jul 20, 2010 11:03 AM CDT up reply actions
So once you decided you weren't going to change my mind
You decided to attack whether what I was discussing was even a valid discussion to be having?
Interesting approach.
by HuskerCorner on Jul 20, 2010 11:04 AM CDT up reply actions
That's always been his strategy.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Jul 20, 2010 11:05 AM CDT up reply actions
You can tell the posters who usually make sense
and those who don’t, IMHO.
Birds of a feather flock together.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jul 20, 2010 11:09 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Well, you've got me stumped
I don’t even know what this is supposed to mean.
by HuskerCorner on Jul 20, 2010 11:10 AM CDT up reply actions
NBF Translation : DERP DERP
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Jul 20, 2010 11:12 AM CDT up reply actions
I wouldn't go that far.
It matters a little, and I think Husker and his friends will get their wish in the next couple weeks.
It’s just nothing to get annoyed about on July 20. I might feel differently on Aug. 20, however.
We might have fallen out of the race by then!
But probably not….Howry will be one of our horses leading us to the division crown!
And even then
You’re 11 days away from roster expansion.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jul 20, 2010 11:00 AM CDT up reply actions
this from the guy who found it so unimportant, he jumped into the argument halfway through
What I was doing was having a discussion, about something that was brought up on a message board. It’s not like I was talking to myself.
by HuskerCorner on Jul 20, 2010 11:00 AM CDT up reply actions
And just because you say it doesn't matter, doesn't make it true
It.Just.Doesn’t.
by HuskerCorner on Jul 20, 2010 11:01 AM CDT up reply actions
And just because you say it does matter
Doesn’t. Mean. It. Does.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jul 20, 2010 11:02 AM CDT up reply actions
hence the discussion I was having.
You know, the unimportant one you jumped into, and are dead set on continuing
by HuskerCorner on Jul 20, 2010 11:03 AM CDT up reply actions
I'm going to end it now, then
I guess I should expect this level of zealousness from a Huskers fan.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jul 20, 2010 11:04 AM CDT up reply actions
Again, I'm not sure what your point is
but I get the sense that you are personally attacking instead of actually “ending it”
by HuskerCorner on Jul 20, 2010 11:17 AM CDT up reply actions
i can't think of a worse fate
than finishing 12th in the “big ten” but the addition of nebraska will likely bring on that fate for my beloved illini. but i’ll happily wait until it happens before i start resenting husker fans.
by circuitclout on Jul 20, 2010 11:27 AM CDT up reply actions
I went to Missouri
so I have plenty of reason to resent the Big Red of Lincoln.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jul 20, 2010 11:29 AM CDT up reply actions
It's not my fault you guys were our bitches for 40 years
by HuskerCorner on Jul 20, 2010 11:30 AM CDT up reply actions
No, but you're
a convenient scapegoat. :)
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jul 20, 2010 11:50 AM CDT up reply actions
Illinois is my second favorite College team
since my family is all from Evanston and Northwestern is….well WAS, Northwestern. So I’d love for Nebraska to somehow not harm the Illini too much
by HuskerCorner on Jul 20, 2010 11:29 AM CDT up reply actions
Because the situation has changed
not particularly hard to figure out.
by HuskerCorner on Jul 20, 2010 10:40 AM CDT up reply actions
I think you're right, Al.
Howry was signed at a time when the Cubs thought a good run might get them back in the race. With the trade deadline approaching and the Cubs sinking farther, I bet Howry is placed on waivers in the next two weeks.
Probably just outright released.
Or, maybe allowed to announce his retirement, just as a mark of respect. I know the organization likes him.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
TBD
anyone know why the i-cubs starter for today is TBD?
because they haven't decided who the starter will be?
by HuskerCorner on Jul 20, 2010 9:59 AM CDT up reply actions
well played
i guess i was thinking that if they moved lilly today they’d need a starter in chicago tomorrow….
by circuitclout on Jul 20, 2010 10:04 AM CDT up reply actions
I think the more likely scenario is that one of the long relievers is going to make a start
and they haven’t decided who. It happens quite frequently in the minors
by HuskerCorner on Jul 20, 2010 10:08 AM CDT up reply actions
thanks al
i’ll be sure to never be curious about anything ever again….
by circuitclout on Jul 20, 2010 10:11 AM CDT up reply actions
Be curious.
… I just think your idea that it’s because they “need a starter in Chicago” — implying that Lilly would be traded — approaches tinfoil hat territory.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
But thinking that Dome and the Cubs and a Japanese baseball team
are going to work out some sort of deal that allows the Cubs to save money in getting rid of Dome because it’s been done ONCE, EVER is perfectly rational?
You didn’t really need to be a prig about his question
by HuskerCorner on Jul 20, 2010 10:14 AM CDT up reply actions
I didn't say "deal", did I?
There’s not going to be any “trade”, if that’s what you are implying. There was no such deal between Johjima, the Mariners, and his new Japanese team. He just signed a contract and walked away from his Mariners deal.
I don’t understand why you don’t see this is plausible.
Was trying to inject a little humor into a bleak Cubs day, that’s all.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
it's clear
the meds and the caffeine haven’t kicked in yet for me.
i know its all in good fun al, i’m just playing along
by circuitclout on Jul 20, 2010 10:19 AM CDT up reply actions
just to be clear tho
i don’t believe…
we landed on the moon,
that oswald shot kennedy
or that bp suddenly capped the oil leak
all better reasons to be fitted for a fancy hat like that
by circuitclout on Jul 20, 2010 10:33 AM CDT up reply actions
i wouldn't call it an idea
but it’s not a totally implausible idea. and seeing as how there are people that follow our minor league teams much closer than i do i thought someone might have some insight into who’s turn it is, injury updates, etc…
by circuitclout on Jul 20, 2010 10:15 AM CDT up reply actions
OT: FakeJimHendry twitter referenced Al's smokescreen comment
in his tweet! I think that is neat.
"A dream you dream alone is only a dream. A dream you dream together is reality." John Lennon
it would be nice, though, to finally win a series against the Astros, if only just to say they did it.
Yes, please. I hate hate hate the Astros. Went to a game with my brother once in the best seats I ever had (by pink hat guy). Still upset how badly we lost in that game. Hated them for it ever since-that and for wanting the Cubs to fly down into a hurricane.
"Fasten those seatbelts!"-Pat Hughes
Who wanted the Cubs to fly into a hurricane?
I didn't believe it last August, but it turns out that love survives.
Mount Washington conquered July 5, 2010
State high point count: 3/50
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Jul 20, 2010 10:15 AM CDT up reply actions
Has long as they fly in the center of it...
then nothing will happen to them.
"A dream you dream alone is only a dream. A dream you dream together is reality." John Lennon
As long not has long
"A dream you dream alone is only a dream. A dream you dream together is reality." John Lennon
Drayton McLane.
Seriously. He wanted the Cubs to fly to Houston to play that series, even while most of Houston was evacuating.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
Yep
"Fasten those seatbelts!"-Pat Hughes
by katie casey on Jul 20, 2010 10:31 AM CDT up reply actions
Whenever fans complain about Ricketts,
they should think about Drayton McLane for a few minutes, and then they’ll feel better.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jul 20, 2010 10:38 AM CDT up reply actions
I bitch, therefore I am
I guess I shouldn’t expect a lot of perspective from some people.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jul 20, 2010 10:51 AM CDT up reply actions
Please make a FanPost outlining the guidelines for acceptable complaining.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Jul 20, 2010 10:53 AM CDT up reply actions
I'll just take most of your posts
and re-post them as an example of what NOT do to.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jul 20, 2010 10:55 AM CDT up reply actions
Or "to do"
Forgive the dyslexia.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jul 20, 2010 10:55 AM CDT up reply actions
So that means we can call people idiots
and ignore direct questions now? Nice.
www.facebook.com/craighudak
by Craig in South Bend on Jul 20, 2010 12:44 PM CDT up reply actions
Only if your as wise as NBF and can differentiate between the intelligent posters and "the usual suspects".
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Jul 20, 2010 12:49 PM CDT up reply actions
Your idiotic comment is not surprising
and. is. an. example. of. the. moronic. nature. of. this. board.
www.facebook.com/craighudak
by Craig in South Bend on Jul 20, 2010 12:53 PM CDT up reply actions
the. period. is. the. new. exclamation. point.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Jul 20, 2010 12:56 PM CDT up reply actions
did.you.get.that.evo.yet.?.
www.facebook.com/craighudak
by Craig in South Bend on Jul 20, 2010 1:05 PM CDT up reply actions
i.have.to.wait.another.6.months.
and by that time the nex gen will most likely be out…
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Jul 20, 2010 1:08 PM CDT up reply actions
bummer.just.pay.the.e.t.f.
but.the.next.gen.will.hopefully.not.have.stupid.framerate.capping.
www.facebook.com/craighudak
by Craig in South Bend on Jul 20, 2010 1:11 PM CDT up reply actions
Oh lord.
man, you could make a career out of making specious arguments
by HuskerCorner on Jul 20, 2010 10:57 AM CDT up reply actions
Because
your arguments are 100 percent doltish.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jul 20, 2010 11:29 AM CDT up reply actions
OMG.
That’s just wrong. Plain and simple.
And then the Astros turned into a bunch of crybabies for having to play that series in Milwaukee.
I didn't believe it last August, but it turns out that love survives.
Mount Washington conquered July 5, 2010
State high point count: 3/50
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Jul 20, 2010 10:40 AM CDT up reply actions
Blah
Having experienced multiple hurricanes, I can tell you that it’s something that I wouldn’t wish on anyone.
RIP Ronnie James Dio (July 10, 1942 - May 16, 2010).
I've experienced one.
And it was not fun. It was in 1999, and Hurricane Floyd hit, among other places, Vermont.
One of the worst storms I’ve ever seen.
I didn't believe it last August, but it turns out that love survives.
Mount Washington conquered July 5, 2010
State high point count: 3/50
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Jul 20, 2010 10:42 AM CDT up reply actions
I have memories of a few
They’re not fun and I’ve seen first hand the raw devastation that they can cause. It makes me wonder who would wish that on anyone.
RIP Ronnie James Dio (July 10, 1942 - May 16, 2010).
Some Thoughts...
If I was making a list of trade or release vs. no-trade players here’s my take
NO-Trade:
Marlon "Da Byrd Man" Byrd – One of the few bright spots all year, low cost 3 year contract. He hustles, he loves it here and the guy can rake.
Tyler Colvin – Big potential, cost controlled and despite some hitting slumps I can see him having a nice long run here.
Starlin Castro – Pretty much the same as Colvin except change hitting slumps with some fielding flubs. This kid is gonna be something to watch in a few years. Hell is now…
Ryan Dempster – As much as I screamed at my radio a few years ago to get rid of him as a reliever cause he gave me mini-grabbers everytime he took the hill, I love me some Demp now. He is as close to a leader on this team as we have.
Carlos "White Castle" Marmol – I think he’s shown he can be the closer we thought he could be.
Sean Marshall – Set up man, closer and just plain good.
Aramis Ramirez – ok… He’s had a bad year… a career scaring bad year, but I hope… hope this was injury and bad luck.
Trade / Release:
Ted "The Man" Lilly – Love Ted, but I can see trading him and then getting him back with a new contract next year. Get something now and wait for his FA to kick in.
Xavier Nady – The great X-man experiment has run it’s course.
Kosuke Fukudome – As much as I like him in the field, I’m tired of the mid season disappearance of his bat and watching him do his imitation of a BP drill rig at the plate.
( i.e. spin and implode )
Koye Hill – another reclamation project that has run it’s course. A .213 BA and a whopping 8 RBI’s… nuff said
Carlos "Rubber Room" Zambrano – Trade… Release… not sure I care… I’m tired of the "I’m more mature this year" schtick.
Bob "Home Run" Howry – I got acid reflux watching him 2 years ago, I get it now. Hendry… one kick in the jewels wasn’t enough?
"The Cajun Connection" – Not sure what we can get for either.
Derek Lee – I like Lee and he’s had a pretty good run here, but I think it’s time to say goodbye.
Most of the middle Relief – Trade, Release, Shoot from a cannon… again… not sure I care.
Jeff "Spellcheck" Samardzija – with his contract and all, not sure we CAN trade him and if he actually has some new tricks in his bag maybe he can live up to the hype and his contract. If nothing else we still need someone to bitch and moan about else it wouldn’t be the Cubs.
Roberto Duran to Sugar Ray Leonard - No Mas... No Mas...
-------------
Hicks: That's it, man. Game over, man. Game over, what the **** are we supposed to now, huh, what are we gonna do?
-------------
"Why people, who have not committed any punishable offense, listen to Country and Western music is absolutely beyond me" - John Cleese
by Endrick on Jul 20, 2010 10:18 AM CDT reply actions 1 recs
Koyie Hill is a backup catcher.
Backup catchers can hit .213 if they play once a week (listening, Lou?) and if they catch a good game. There’s no reason to cut ties with Koyie.
Games started numbers for Cubs catchers.
Soto: 69
Hill: 25
That’s about a game and a half per week for Hill — not objectionable.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
Except Lou
has 10 bazillion wins and listens only to the voices in his head…
Roberto Duran to Sugar Ray Leonard - No Mas... No Mas...
-------------
Hicks: That's it, man. Game over, man. Game over, what the **** are we supposed to now, huh, what are we gonna do?
-------------
"Why people, who have not committed any punishable offense, listen to Country and Western music is absolutely beyond me" - John Cleese
I like your thoughts here.
But unfortunately the team is horrible and most of those “trade” players you mentioned are too expensive or bad to be traded. Wishful thinking is nice, I just get a little annoyed with seeing on here people expecting our huge contracts to be traded because they want them to be and thinking mgmt isn’t doing their job when they are still here. Yes mgmt and Hendry have a bad track record, but that only makes trading them more difficult.
Shut Up Joe Morgan
by Sandberg's evil twin on Jul 20, 2010 1:07 PM CDT up reply actions
So we should trade all the bad players and keep all the good ones?
Way to go out on a limb there. I’m sure people are lining up at the door to get their hands on our backup catcher, a pitcher owed lots of money whose value has never been lower, and two short, average middle infielders.
And if we released all our middle relievers, who is going to, you know, pitch in middle relief? Do you think we have better players waiting to come up but they’re being blocked by Mitch Atkins?
As he usually does,
Wreckard nails it.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jul 20, 2010 1:29 PM CDT up reply actions
lol
That cracked me up. I could not believe there was so many posts about the value (or not) of Howry on here today. It’s an awful pen. Gonna be awful whether or not Howry is there or another rookie. Gonna still be awful if we bring up spellcheck. Don’t really care about it lol.
Shut Up Joe Morgan
by Sandberg's evil twin on Jul 20, 2010 1:29 PM CDT up reply actions
Don't really care.
I’m not gonna debate something that doesn’t matter to me.
Shut Up Joe Morgan
by Sandberg's evil twin on Jul 20, 2010 1:32 PM CDT up reply actions
I wish I had taken that approach earlier.
But you know how it is — you start an argument and you don’t want to back down.
Yep.
Been there before. Usually it’s something of no importance and I didn’t want to argue about it…but it can be hard to ignore someone telling you to admit you are wrong or condescending.
Shut Up Joe Morgan
by Sandberg's evil twin on Jul 20, 2010 1:48 PM CDT up reply actions
The point was...
Those are the parts I’d like to see us keep…
knowing the history of the Cubs those guys will get traded and
the rest of this craptastic team will stay… lol
Roberto Duran to Sugar Ray Leonard - No Mas... No Mas...
-------------
Hicks: That's it, man. Game over, man. Game over, what the **** are we supposed to now, huh, what are we gonna do?
-------------
"Why people, who have not committed any punishable offense, listen to Country and Western music is absolutely beyond me" - John Cleese
I don't think there's anything mysterious about "this team" on this one
Silva just sucked, and the other pitchers couldn’t hold it down. The offense scored runs enough to win if Silva hadn’t imploded.
"They say the glee team has lured straggler into sniper traps with cheery renditions of hit songs." "Really? And people fall for that?"
Silva simply couldn't get it done last night
Rothschild has his work cut out for him because this is not a good sign. I have a hard time believing that Silva is done, but if history is any indicator, we’re stuck with Silva because no one is going to take a chance on him.
RIP Ronnie James Dio (July 10, 1942 - May 16, 2010).
The only consistent positive for this team has been SP
and Silva has had a miracle turnaround. if that all starts going downhiil, look out.
Winner. Exactly my thoughts.
I was confused by Al’s confusion in the recap. Silva had a bad outing and the bullpen failed in long relief. Not too surprising and definitely predictable for the bullpen. What is the mystery here…I don’t think it was a lack of momentum. It was a lack of talent in the pen and Silva having a bad outing.
Shut Up Joe Morgan
by Sandberg's evil twin on Jul 20, 2010 1:09 PM CDT up reply actions
+ 1000000
That’s all this potentially means. You and pygreg nailed.
What happens if the Cubs win the rest of the series?
Hmmm…
Blue mountains high .. Blue valleys low
I don't know which way we shall go ..
One summer dream .. one summer dream ..
coda
ELO, 1975
Nice "Bravado" reference, c2
One of Rush’s most underrated songs.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jul 20, 2010 10:41 AM CDT up reply actions
One of their greatest, IMO.
Their live version on the T4E Tour was majestic. I remember crying like a baby at the show.
I'm going to see them in STL next month
I’ve seen them perform it in person before, but it’d be nice to see it again.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jul 20, 2010 11:02 AM CDT up reply actions
Saw them here two weeks ago and will go to Houston in September.
I’ve followed them around the globe since 1996. Even though they always have the same playlist for every show, it’s fun to see how they change it up a bit every night.
If only the Cubs could be so perfect…
(And I know these comments will irritate my pal Clutch16, so “we’re sorry”)
I envy your ability to do that
I figure I see them everytime they stop near me, because at this point, each visit could be their last. (Only seen them six times so far.)
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jul 20, 2010 11:10 AM CDT up reply actions
The money I didn't spend on Cubs tickets this year paid for Rush tickets.
I’m sure you’ll have a blast at the STL show. You’ve seen the spoilers yet?
I know they're playing "Moving Pictures" in its entirety
Thanks for the offer, but I’ll take the element of surprise.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jul 20, 2010 11:30 AM CDT up reply actions
Rush seems to love it here.
Not sure why except it’s the midwest but I’ve just been grateful…I’ve seen them more times than I can count. Always a good show. Let me know if you think of it whether they play “Working Man”…last time I noticed they took that old time staple out of their sets.
Shut Up Joe Morgan
by Sandberg's evil twin on Jul 20, 2010 1:12 PM CDT up reply actions
They didn't do it for years
then put it back into their set list for the last tour or two. I’ve always thought that they didn’t play it much because it was a John Rutsey-era song.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jul 20, 2010 1:23 PM CDT up reply actions
They played it for years here in the Loo.
Presto, Roll the Bones, even the first Snakes and Arrows tour. The last time they didn’t. It’s not a big deal, just something I noticed. They always have a good show…I also noticed they eliminated the washers or a goofy background element last time. Neal Pert and Geddy have had so much tragedy in their lives I’m just happy they tour. When you consider that REO Speedwagon, Styx, Journey…bands that started somewhere near them are all broken into pieces it’s sort of amazing to me actually.
Shut Up Joe Morgan
by Sandberg's evil twin on Jul 20, 2010 1:39 PM CDT up reply actions
This is just one of the 6 losses in our current 25-6 run, right?
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Jul 20, 2010 10:46 AM CDT reply actions
If you want to see something interesting,
check out the all-time Cubs/Astros W-L at B-R. Let’s just say, not pretty for the Cubs.
I was waiting for the following statements below, but didn’t see any. What’s happening? IS it over yet?
“It happens.”
“Only 10 games down in the loss column.”
“If we sweep the Cardinals…”
“If we sweep the Reds…”
“When we get Adam Dunn at the deadline…”
you forgot my personal favorite...
“Enough.”
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Jul 20, 2010 11:19 AM CDT up reply actions
"Enough"
And, my favorite Louism, “What do you want me to do?”
Mine is still "What kind of baseball do you play?" because he was just leaving himself so wide open
to an absolutely SCATHING response from anyone with the guts to do it.
by HuskerCorner on Jul 20, 2010 11:26 AM CDT up reply actions
I think Lou has shown that he's not worried about a SCATHING response
from a fan…perhaps worried about Stone, but little else.
Shut Up Joe Morgan
by Sandberg's evil twin on Jul 20, 2010 1:16 PM CDT up reply actions
Rarely does Hendry
trade anyone at the peak of their value. Please don’t say DeRo, cause none of those pitchers have done much yet. Still in denial after all these follies.
"In order to have a winner, the team must have a feeling of unity; every player must put the team first- ahead of personal glory" - motivational sign at Halas Hall.
does anyone?
its hard to trade someone at peak value without the benefit of hindsight.
by circuitclout on Jul 20, 2010 11:47 AM CDT up reply actions
I would have to say
the most prominent recent example has to be Walt Jocketty.
Traded to the Reds
from the Cards (back atcha!) for a former Asst. GM.
I still say this the stupidest argument on the site
The Cubs are a big market team. They should not be regularly trading players at their peak like the Pirates and Royals. Why thye obsession with sell high. I’ll ask the original poster, should Hendry trade Castro now for some prospects? His value may never be higher.
As for the question, everyone in the Harden deal was a sell high.
Here, I have another one.
It appears everyone in the deal for Gorzelanny & Grabow was a “sell high”.
Even if Grabow is a complete and total failure, looks like Gorz is a keeper.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
Yeah
that’s exactly what I meant. Here’s a perfect reason to trade off expensive players, even if there really isn’t much return. Salary relief is enough by itself.
- The Cubs rank last among 30 teams thus far in 2010, requiring $2.07 million in payroll per win, and underperforming their projected win total by 9 games.
"In order to have a winner, the team must have a feeling of unity; every player must put the team first- ahead of personal glory" - motivational sign at Halas Hall.
Thanks.
It’s been a long time. Might be the last time, too, given how he’s pitching.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
wait...2 bad starts in a row mean he'll never pitch well again?
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Jul 20, 2010 11:56 AM CDT up reply actions
they have been particularly ugly
We’re not talking about two 4-inning outings where he’s given up five runs.
exactly
so now that he is bad and the cubs don’t want him anymore we should trade him to a contender for one of their best prospects.
by circuitclout on Jul 20, 2010 12:09 PM CDT up reply actions
If you have knowledge of a team that ever offered a trade for Silva I'd sure love to see it.
No one has ever offered anything that I’ve seen. No one has wanted that contract. They sure aren’t going to now.
Shut Up Joe Morgan
by Sandberg's evil twin on Jul 20, 2010 1:57 PM CDT up reply actions
Didn't say that.
Just said I might not be able to use the headline again.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
We're going to find out.
Lou doesn’t really have any choice but to keep him there right now. In a few weeks he can put Z there…perhaps “Stretch out” (ugh I hate that term) Marshall or Cashner…but I don’t see any short term solutions ready.
Shut Up Joe Morgan
by Sandberg's evil twin on Jul 20, 2010 1:18 PM CDT up reply actions
LOL...and we thought playing Fontenot @ 3rd was an act of desperation.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Jul 20, 2010 1:21 PM CDT up reply actions
Al left out the best part of the game.
Folks on the right side of our bleacher section got so bored they were watching a grasshopper on the railing over the game.
"Lou Piniella's been a great manager for a long time and I stand by him completely"
by Doggie Stalker on Jul 20, 2010 12:32 PM CDT reply actions
That sums up the game nicely.
So bored they would rather watch a grasshopper on a railing. I sure would have.
Shut Up Joe Morgan
by Sandberg's evil twin on Jul 20, 2010 1:20 PM CDT up reply actions
been out of the country for 2 weeks
but just read that new york daily news is reporting lou is “retiring” after the season…
sorry if this has been discussed elsewhere
"I’m not going to say a lot, because if you say the wrong the thing to me, then you (hanley) might wind up on the floor on your rear end," Dawson said with Tony Perez standing by his side in a coach’s office at Sun Life Stadium
::rolls eyes::
new york daily news…reporting…that’s all you needed to say.
Shut Up Joe Morgan
by Sandberg's evil twin on Jul 20, 2010 1:22 PM CDT up reply actions
no, it apparently is a real story this time
Lou is “LIVID” that this leaked, according to Kaplan. Said he wanted to tell the team himself in private. Lou is done managing “after the 2010 season”. Press conference later today.
Jack
derv
I'd pay attention to that.
Don’t listen to anything the Daily News has to say…
Shut Up Joe Morgan
by Sandberg's evil twin on Jul 20, 2010 1:45 PM CDT up reply actions
well, I'll still twirl Coolio in the game threads
At least we’ll have some fun .. 1 . . 2 .. 3 ..
Blue mountains high .. Blue valleys low
I don't know which way we shall go ..
One summer dream .. one summer dream ..
coda
ELO, 1975
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