Lou Piniella To Retire At End Of 2010 Season
by Al Yellon on Jul 20, 2010 1:28 PM CDT
in Chicago Cubs News
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PrintJust announced via press release from the Cubs, here is Lou's statement:
"I couldn’t be more appreciative of the Cubs organization for providing me the opportunity to manage this ballclub," said Piniella. "I’ve had four wonderful years here that I wouldn’t trade for anything in the world. I’ve grown to love the city and the fans but at my age (67 at the end of the season) it will be time to enter a new phase in my life. It will enable me to spend more valuable time with my family – my wife, my kids and my grandchildren. God has blessed me to have been able to work this many years in the game that I love.
"Why make this announcement now? Jim Hendry asked me in recent weeks regarding my future with the team and I told him I had made the decision to retire at the end of the season. Since my decision has now been made, I don’t want to mislead anyone about my intentions when asked in the future.
"But more importantly, announcing my decision now is what’s best for this organization in the long run. It gives Jim Hendry ample time to find the next manager and he doesn’t need to do so in secrecy. The Cubs are one of the greatest organizations in baseball. I care very deeply for this organization and want nothing more than for it to experience present and long-term success. I’m proud of our accomplishments during my time here and this will be a perfect way for me to end my career.
"But let me make one thing perfectly clear: our work is far from over. I want to keep the momentum going more than anything else and win as many games as we can to get back in this pennant race. I’m going to give every effort I have to help this team win and that will remain my sole focus through the rest of the season."
Let me repeat my position: I'm glad that Lou was able to lead the Cubs to the playoffs in 2007 and 2008. The last two years have been tougher. And I believe Ryne Sandberg should be the Cubs' next manager.
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This Post got silly. Started off with a nice little idea about grannies attacking young men, but now it's got silly
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by BrewCrew'sPrinceofDarkness on Jul 20, 2010 3:01 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
I think this was the right time to make the announcement
No more questions about his future, and don’t expect him to be let go before the year is out.
"You’re playing a baseball game. You’re not playing Tiddlywinks. There is competition, for God’s sake."— Lou Piniella
Still... I'm a bit sad to see him go
I just wish he could have gone out in glory.
by Emelie on Jul 20, 2010 1:30 PM CDT reply actions 1 recs
I would have at least liked to have seen him...
…go out with four winning seasons under his belt. Looks like he’ll have to settle for three out of four.
Contributing Editor, SB Nation Chicago. Please follow us on Twitter!
IMHO
This is still something worth shooting for…
"Wait, are you saying I'm a sunshine-pumping, koolaid-drinking, Soriano-loving, rainbow-rising, unicorn-riding, double-clutching, Sweet Lou-backing, Hendry-supporting, hey hey whaddya saying, Cubs are going all the waying, glass is overflowing, Rothschild is all-knowing, Cubs fan? - ballhawk
Definitely. It should always be something you want.
Shut Up Joe Morgan
by Sandberg's evil twin on Jul 20, 2010 1:58 PM CDT up reply actions
It would be wonderful to see him going out with a WS win. Unfortunately that is not very likely.
If the Cubs still have a chance, no matter how small, it’s still Go Cubs, damn the math and pass the KoolAid.
Too bad
this franchise has chewed up and spit out another good baseball man.
Thanks, Lou.
And just say no to Ryno.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jul 20, 2010 1:31 PM CDT reply actions 3 recs
You & I disagree on Ryno.
I don’t think he got chewed up and spit out. He’ll be 67 next month. It’s time.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
One has to wonder if Lou would have kept going if the Cubs won it all in 2008
Winning makes things a lot easier.
RIP Ronnie James Dio (July 10, 1942 - May 16, 2010).
I think he would've still retired now.
Hell, he might’ve retired immediately after the clinching game.
Contributing Editor, SB Nation Chicago. Please follow us on Twitter!
I suspect he might have taken a "victory lap" season...
… and retired at the end of his original three-year contract. Remember, he got an extension for this year.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
Ryno can cut his teeth with the Royals
That would be a perfect place for a rookie big-league manager.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jul 20, 2010 1:43 PM CDT up reply actions
Right.
Like the Dodgers let Mike Scioscia go to that “rookie” team, the Angels. They have regretted it ever since.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
Pretty funny stuff, Al
Didn’t realize we had the second coming of Connie Mack down at Iowa.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jul 20, 2010 1:46 PM CDT up reply actions
No one's suggesting that.
You, however, apparently think he’s the second coming of Preston Gomez.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
I've said this before, TJ, and I'll say it again,
take a look at Joey Cora or Jose Oquendo. That would be some out-of-box thinking.
Or make a play for Girardi (long shot, I know, but it’s worth it).
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jul 20, 2010 1:53 PM CDT up reply actions
Girardi would be fine...if available. Otherwise its time for Sandberg.
We need someone who won’t be bitching about not being ready for Cubs baseball.
Cora and Oquendo have been dealing with the Cubs for years
I think they know all about “Cubs baseball” without having the stink of it all over themselves, like Sandberg does.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jul 20, 2010 1:56 PM CDT up reply actions
Where's his WS ring?
I’m not sure I want someone who understands “Cubbie culture” that intimately. Because that culture is not one to be celebrated.
Girardi knows it but also has spent significant time away from it.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jul 20, 2010 1:57 PM CDT up reply actions
you've caught the BLou Bug....
next you’ll want Kenny Williams as Hendry’s replacement.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Jul 20, 2010 1:58 PM CDT up reply actions
The Sox can keep Kenny, thanks
One thing at a time.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jul 20, 2010 1:59 PM CDT up reply actions
I bet we'd get that spring training facility we've been dreaming of.
٩(͡๏̯͡๏)۶ Dum spiro spero... | Twitter: @andrewjstone.
by AndrewJStone on Jul 20, 2010 1:59 PM CDT up reply actions
You don't need a WS ring as a player to know how to get there
There are plenty of examples of players who never played on teams that won a WS that won it all. There are also examples of managers who won WS as players who didn’t amount to anything as managers.
RIP Ronnie James Dio (July 10, 1942 - May 16, 2010).
by Ace Venom on Jul 20, 2010 1:59 PM CDT up reply actions 2 recs
Many, Many players have won WS rings
How many are in the Hall of Fame? Sandberg’s certainly got more credibility than someone whose won a WS. He’s part of a pretty exclusive club that has less than 1000 members.
Not to mention he’s been successful for the most part in the minor leagues. He took the Smokies to the playoffs and Iowa is in 1st place at the moment.
My dream is to have Girardi as the manager and Sanberg as the bench coach
"the stink of it all over themselves"....??????
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Jul 20, 2010 1:56 PM CDT up reply actions
You have to admit any bathroom Silva has used...
Prolly has some stank to it.
Shut Up Joe Morgan
by Sandberg's evil twin on Jul 20, 2010 2:32 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Cora and Oquendo have been dealing with the Cubs for years
So had Dusty Baker and Don Baylor. How’d that work out?
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
Were Baker and Baylor living in the same city?
Were they playing in the same division for years?
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jul 20, 2010 1:58 PM CDT up reply actions
If you can't see the difference, TJ
you’re beyond help. Then again, you were anyway!!!!
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jul 20, 2010 2:03 PM CDT up reply actions
Great reply!!!!!!!!!!!!
I remember all the years Jose Oquendo lived in the City. playing for the White Sox! Those were some fun times!
They smelled the stink from Comiskey.
Shut Up Joe Morgan
by Sandberg's evil twin on Jul 20, 2010 2:33 PM CDT up reply actions
Huh?
First you cite coaches who were NEVER in the Cub organization as people who have “dealt with the Cubs” as examples of people who would be good for the job.
I cited similar men who WERE hired who didn’t work out.
So what’s your point here?
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
you're mischaracterizing his posts
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Jul 20, 2010 2:03 PM CDT up reply actions
Close enough to know
but not too close, either.
And they’ve both been part of World Series winners.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jul 20, 2010 2:05 PM CDT up reply actions
Close enough to know, but not too close?
man this is getting narrow quickly.
Shut Up Joe Morgan
by Sandberg's evil twin on Jul 20, 2010 2:35 PM CDT up reply actions
"Stink"?
You’re out there on this one.
Shut Up Joe Morgan
by Sandberg's evil twin on Jul 20, 2010 2:02 PM CDT up reply actions
I forgot that hyperbole
never is used at BCB. :)
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jul 20, 2010 2:04 PM CDT up reply actions
what about bobby
valentine? he is far more expiertenced than sandberg
by brian custer on Jul 20, 2010 2:08 PM CDT up reply actions
Just be sure to count your fingers
after shaking hands with Bobby Valentine.
I'll go to my grave believing Armando Galarraga tossed the 21st perfect game in MLB history.
Whoever smelt it, dealt it :)
Shut Up Joe Morgan
by Sandberg's evil twin on Jul 20, 2010 2:35 PM CDT up reply actions
It makes someone think as to WHY Girardi hasn't signed his extension.
Is he waiting on this Cubs announcement? Just speculation, I know. Correct me if I’m wrong, but, I don’t think he’s under contract after this year.
I, for one, like the idea of Sandberg in the dugout and Maddux as GM.
Ron Santo - 8,143 ABs, .277 BA; 342 HR; 1331 RBI = NO Hall of Fame?
Brooks Robinson - 10,654 ABs, .267 BA; 268 HR; 1357 RBI = Hall of Fame.
Any more questions ?
I'd really rather not have two rookies in those incredibly important roles
Of course I’d take almost ANYONE over Hendry……………
by HuskerCorner on Jul 20, 2010 3:27 PM CDT up reply actions
He's not under contract.
But you’re just guessing about why.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
I agree on Girardi
He’s young and can give straight answers to questions. Plus, he’s had experience winning with a small-payroll team and a big-payroll team
is Girardi's contract up at the end of the year?
An optimist sees the cup half full. A pessimist half empty. A Cubs fan waits for the cup to tip and spill...
by CubFaninNY on Jul 20, 2010 2:22 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
Yes, it is.
"Juuuuuuussst a bit outside. He tried for the corner and missed..."
- Harry Doyle
by Rusty in Peoria on Jul 20, 2010 2:24 PM CDT up reply actions
and if he wins it all will he leave NY?
I doubt it.
An optimist sees the cup half full. A pessimist half empty. A Cubs fan waits for the cup to tip and spill...
by CubFaninNY on Jul 20, 2010 2:58 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
I would agree with that.
"Juuuuuuussst a bit outside. He tried for the corner and missed..."
- Harry Doyle
by Rusty in Peoria on Jul 20, 2010 2:59 PM CDT up reply actions
and that answers my question above
Ron Santo - 8,143 ABs, .277 BA; 342 HR; 1331 RBI = NO Hall of Fame?
Brooks Robinson - 10,654 ABs, .267 BA; 268 HR; 1357 RBI = Hall of Fame.
Any more questions ?
Can you really see
Ricketts hire an untested manager from the ranks of either the White Sox or Cards? Neither has managed at the minor league level and Cora was even turned down by his alma mater, Seattle. Perhaps it’s their scrapiness that you find so attractive.
If a quality pitching start is 3 runs and 6 innings, then a quality hitting day is 1 for 4.
They're no different than Ryno
They’ve never managed a day in the major leagues.
But they have spent considerable time in the dugout, on the bench in World Series-winning organizations. That counts.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jul 20, 2010 2:33 PM CDT up reply actions
They are quite different.
They haven’t managed at any level and they are not former Cub Hall of Fame players.
After this year, Ricketts will be hard pressed to gain the respect of many wavering fans. Just from a perception standpoint, let’s suppose he hires Cora or Oquendo and, because of those damned backloaded contracts, the team again has a poor year. What does Tommy say to the Cub fans who will insist Sandberg should have been hired? If you were Ricketts, would you take that risk? He might get away with hiring a former manager, but never a guy who was only a coach, and a coach with a hated rival.
If a quality pitching start is 3 runs and 6 innings, then a quality hitting day is 1 for 4.
by tharr on Jul 20, 2010 2:54 PM CDT up reply actions 3 recs
I'm fully convinced
many of you have lost your minds.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jul 20, 2010 8:33 PM CDT up reply actions
Generally
when you think everyone else has lost their mind, it’s you who is crazy.
www.facebook.com/craighudak
by Craig in South Bend on Jul 20, 2010 10:23 PM CDT up reply actions
Not this time
Listen, I get it. You love Ryno. You get the warm and fuzzies just thinking about him. Just admit it. You’ll watch the team every day, even if they go 40-122, just to see him work his magic.
If the Cubs want to win, they’ll find someone who has spent more than NOT ONE DAY in a supervisory role in a big-league dugout.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jul 20, 2010 11:05 PM CDT up reply actions
I've said this a thousand times before
But the hand wringing over the manager is completely overblown. If this team goes 40-122 with Ryno at the helm, I’m not going to say he ruined the season. No baseball manager can make a decent team suck that poorly. That’s on the guys above him. Does that mean he’s a good manager? Nope. But all the ire would be misguided, much like it has been this year.
Lou’s the story of the day, so I understand the ongoing conversation. But Ricketts’ announcement that Jim Hendry is going to be hiring manager #3 is of much more importance. Cora vs. Oquendo vs. Sandberg is so miniscule within the big picture compared to Hendry’s stay of execution that I’m shocked at how much conversation there’s been about it. Better than talking about this season though, I guess.
by shoemile on Jul 21, 2010 12:06 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Couldn't have said it better...
…and it is very rare any GM gets to hire 3 managers, especially when you haven’t made the playoffs with the highest payroll for two straight years.
I am holding out hope that Rickett’s comments today served a purpose and that wasn’t because he really trusts Hendry driving the baseball operations bus past this year.
If Hendry is still the top baseball man when the 2011 season roles around, I really don’t think I could bear to watch any more of this circus.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
by MPH73 on Jul 21, 2010 12:41 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Much of this thread was posted
before we knew Hendry was going to be kept on, shoemile. I agree the larger discussion should be that Hendry is being retained, given it was pretty much inevitable Lou wouldn’t be back to begin with.
Shut Up Joe Morgan
by Sandberg's evil twin on Jul 21, 2010 2:28 AM CDT up reply actions
Thanks for the clarification, SET.
I appreciate it. Thus sorry to anyone who felt lumped in with my negative connotation of those that blame all of this wretched season on Lou (i.e. that managers of utmost importance). This whole “Fire Lou!!!!!!!” obsession, to me at least, has kind of missed the big picture, and I’ve reached the point where I’m a broken record on the issue.
Well...
…if the leadership at the top remains the same, this board will be calling for the next manager to be fired in 2-3 years and the revloving door will continue.
Organizations can make a good manager look bad and a mediocre manager look good. This fact continues to fly over everyone’s head.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
Girardi is my choice #1
then Sandberg would be option #2
In the 8th grade Mike Ditka won his school's Science Fair with a model of a working volcano. There were 17 other working volcano's made that day, but only one named Mount Ditka.
by Lester A. Wiltfong Jr. on Jul 20, 2010 3:43 PM CDT up reply actions
You have...
…to take a serious shot at Girardi and see if he is interested. Why wouldn’t you? He is clearly the best available guy.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
it seems like most here can agree on this
"Wait, are you saying I'm a sunshine-pumping, koolaid-drinking, Soriano-loving, rainbow-rising, unicorn-riding, double-clutching, Sweet Lou-backing, Hendry-supporting, hey hey whaddya saying, Cubs are going all the waying, glass is overflowing, Rothschild is all-knowing, Cubs fan? - ballhawk
Good evening TJ (others)
No time to post much as I’m having (sorta) grandchild n his ma over…. making U13 Shrimp on grill per Cluth/Eths suggestions (I’ve “married” the 2 recipes- thanks again). In a nutshell? MLB is a “what have u done for me lately sport”. Thanks for 07 n 08 Lou, but please leave whilst you maintain (some) diginty? Hopefully, Jim H will follow suit??? I feel, Ryno not quite ready yet. I realise that may not be a “popular sentiment”, but nonetheless… If ryno was managing this sorry 2010 team, we’d be calling for his head by early July! Just MHO. Enjoy the game all! I’ll check back tomorrow to “feel the pulse” of BCB Fans on this issue! Go Cubs!
on the sands of hesitation, lie the bones of countless millions, who, at the brink of the best, sat down to rest, and resting...they died. Author Unknown
You just suggested Ryno = Scioscia
I’m not saying Ryno = Gomez. Let’s see what he can do in a low-pressure, low-expectation situation. Like Kansas City, for example. (They’re not going to keep Yost, are they?)
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jul 20, 2010 1:54 PM CDT up reply actions
Its the Royals, so yes, they are keeping him.
"You've got to get your damn shirts rolled up and go out and kick somebody's ass. That's what you've got to do. Period." -- Lou Piniella
I'll say this again.
Sandberg came to the Cubs in 2006 applying for Dusty’s job. They told him he needed experience.
He went and got it, worked his way from the bottom up, worked hard, and impressed everyone in the organization.
Now you’re going to tell this Cubs icon to work for the Royals? He’d never come back. Ever.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al Yellon on Jul 20, 2010 1:58 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
So he's holding the Cubs hostage?
Now they HAVE to give him the job, or else?
If that’s the case, thanks but see ya later.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jul 20, 2010 2:00 PM CDT up reply actions
I say give him a shot
If he doesn’t work out, just fire him. It’s not like they’ll unretire his number if he fails at the job.
RIP Ronnie James Dio (July 10, 1942 - May 16, 2010).
And the managerial revolving door keeps spinning
That isn’t good.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jul 20, 2010 2:06 PM CDT up reply actions
We haven't had a manager that won it all since Frank Chance
It hasn’t been good for a long time, NBF.
RIP Ronnie James Dio (July 10, 1942 - May 16, 2010).
So let's just keep going through managers like water
Successful franchises don’t do that.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jul 20, 2010 2:10 PM CDT up reply actions
or Baylor?
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Jul 20, 2010 2:12 PM CDT up reply actions
lol
I keep telling you guys using logic here at BCB was banned but no one listens.
Shut Up Joe Morgan
by Sandberg's evil twin on Jul 20, 2010 2:37 PM CDT up reply actions
Hey SET
Dinner guests, just sayin “hi”. Later
on the sands of hesitation, lie the bones of countless millions, who, at the brink of the best, sat down to rest, and resting...they died. Author Unknown
No
They have to find some level of success first. Once they get it, then they can talk about having a guy stick around. Not until. You don’t stick with a guy who isn’t doing his job. That’s just bad business practice.
RIP Ronnie James Dio (July 10, 1942 - May 16, 2010).
So you're against his retirement?
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Jul 20, 2010 2:14 PM CDT up reply actions
No less than a championship or a pennant
Lou didn’t even manage a team in Chicago that could win a single playoff game. I call it a failure.
RIP Ronnie James Dio (July 10, 1942 - May 16, 2010).
He is quitting on his own. Try to remember that.
Dusty got in the playoffs in 2003. If you got your way, he would still be here.
Biggest payroll in the NL
should equal at least one playoff victory, dontcha think?
There is no such thing as an ugly female breast
Not when you're so stinky.
Shut Up Joe Morgan
by Sandberg's evil twin on Jul 20, 2010 2:37 PM CDT up reply actions
Ability before stability, I say
I'll go to my grave believing Armando Galarraga tossed the 21st perfect game in MLB history.
The Yankees went through 22 in 38 years and won 7 more titles than we have in 102 years....
I guess they should have just stuck with the first guy!
They kept bringing him back
and if Billy Martin hadn’t died in 1989, he probably would have gotten a few more turns
There is no such thing as an ugly female breast
Billy Martin was the guy in 1976
when they won the pennant and 1977 when they won the World Series.
Unfortunately, he never adapted to free agency. He couldn’t handle players like Reggie making more than he ever dreamed of, and racism wasn’t a small thing there either.
There is no such thing as an ugly female breast
^ THIS
Billy and Dick Williams thrived in the pre-Seitz Decision era, when managers held the hammer and through pure intimidation could drive a team according to his will. You didn’t like what the manager told you to do? Then you got buried or shipped out on a rail! But that was a whole different era that ain’t coming back soon.
I'll go to my grave believing Armando Galarraga tossed the 21st perfect game in MLB history.
we haven't actually fired anyone in 8 years
And I can’t BELIEVE you actually want Dusty back, or think Dusty should have stayed. So, if you have one, what is your point?
by HuskerCorner on Jul 20, 2010 3:30 PM CDT up reply actions
Let's be honest
Ryno never gave an ultimatum to the organization.
If a quality pitching start is 3 runs and 6 innings, then a quality hitting day is 1 for 4.
That cement dungeon is gonna go to waste then.
Shut Up Joe Morgan
by Sandberg's evil twin on Jul 20, 2010 2:49 PM CDT up reply actions
I hope there's room for two or Fonty will suffocate.
Shut Up Joe Morgan
by Sandberg's evil twin on Jul 20, 2010 3:09 PM CDT up reply actions
Al...
…that is not a reason to hire someone. You hire the best available candidate for what your looking for, period.
Teams that don’t do this make mistakes that they regret later.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
Kansas City has enjoyed Yost's tenure thus far.
Posnanski just mentioned as much in a recent column. Granted, it’s almost as if they are satisfied with mediocrity, high AVG, low OBP, and blocking a wealth of minor leaguers with one-tool veterans, but Yost is what he is.
Dan
"The riches of the game are in the thrills, not the money." --Ernie Banks
by dtpollitt on Jul 20, 2010 4:12 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
He was also the owner
Kind of hard to fire the manager when there’s a conflict of interest that big. Thankfully, we’ll never see owner-managers in baseball ever again.
RIP Ronnie James Dio (July 10, 1942 - May 16, 2010).
Mike Scioscia was considered, and still is considered, one of the finest baseball minds in the game
Ryno’s HOF plaque is writing checks his little mind won’t be able to cash.
"It was a perfect situation for the Brewers," Hill said. "They had a guy up there at the plate [in Counsell] who takes a lot of pride in what he does and he practices those situations, so when it does come up, he gets the bunt down to the right side of the field. They have the perfect guy on first base [in Gomez], who is one of the fastest guys in the league, and they had one of the worst fundamental teams on the field, so it was a perfect situation for them."
by louslovechild on Jul 20, 2010 1:46 PM CDT up reply actions
rather bluntly put, but I agree with this
You should not equate Ryno with Scioscia, or probably anyone intelligent enough to be a major league catcher or pitcher.
"Wait, are you saying I'm a sunshine-pumping, koolaid-drinking, Soriano-loving, rainbow-rising, unicorn-riding, double-clutching, Sweet Lou-backing, Hendry-supporting, hey hey whaddya saying, Cubs are going all the waying, glass is overflowing, Rothschild is all-knowing, Cubs fan? - ballhawk
Are you suggesting
that pitchers and catchers are smarter than the other players. I guess that would rule out Cora and Oquendo.
If a quality pitching start is 3 runs and 6 innings, then a quality hitting day is 1 for 4.
oh snap
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Jul 20, 2010 2:01 PM CDT up reply actions
LOL
now there is a serious flaw in logic.
Shut Up Joe Morgan
by Sandberg's evil twin on Jul 20, 2010 2:04 PM CDT up reply actions
your logic is flawed
The fact that you have to have a certain level of intelligence to be a catcher or pitcher does not mean that other position players cannot be intelligent, just that they don’t have to be to achieve success.
You made a wrong turn there.
You would be right to assume that I don’t think Ryno is that smart, after observing him for twenty-something years.
"Wait, are you saying I'm a sunshine-pumping, koolaid-drinking, Soriano-loving, rainbow-rising, unicorn-riding, double-clutching, Sweet Lou-backing, Hendry-supporting, hey hey whaddya saying, Cubs are going all the waying, glass is overflowing, Rothschild is all-knowing, Cubs fan? - ballhawk
But YOU assume that all pitchers and catchers are all smart.
Let me know when John Rocker explains black holes and I’ll let you know when Darren Daulton’s space ship lands.
Are you suggesting Kyle Farnsworth might be a better choice to manage next year?
"Sometimes you eat the bar and sometimes..."
That Dibble guy invented the Oil spill cap I heard...
Shut Up Joe Morgan
by Sandberg's evil twin on Jul 20, 2010 2:39 PM CDT up reply actions
Unfortunately, he lost it...
… after throwing it at a taunting fan.
No confirmation on the rumors that this was the cause for his fight with Lou in the clubhouse.
"Sometimes you eat the bar and sometimes..."
Methinks you got busted
But, instead of generalizing about the Wonderlic scores, you feel Sandberg isn’t Mensa material, you might have a point.
If a quality pitching start is 3 runs and 6 innings, then a quality hitting day is 1 for 4.
I don't feel busted
But I won’t go chasing something that wasn’t my main point at the expense of my day job.
Years of observing Sandberg tell me that he is not an intellect, and I would not trust him to use statistics when making management decisions. I think that is a big drawback in this day and age.
I think that the best baseball analysts to be ex-catchers and pitchers, and I equate that to intelligence being more important and more rewarded in these skill positions. The fact that you or Phubbies(?) can find low-wattage pitchers and catchers as counter examples does not mean that my premise is wrong, or (sadly) that Ryno is smarter than they are.
"Wait, are you saying I'm a sunshine-pumping, koolaid-drinking, Soriano-loving, rainbow-rising, unicorn-riding, double-clutching, Sweet Lou-backing, Hendry-supporting, hey hey whaddya saying, Cubs are going all the waying, glass is overflowing, Rothschild is all-knowing, Cubs fan? - ballhawk
Actually, my point was...
… to keep you honest. You called out tharr for using poor logic and I was simply pointing out the cracks in your logic. To rephrase what I was trying to say: the fact that you play pitcher or catcher does not mean you have a certain level of intelligence.
For the record, I agree that catchers, in particular, are more rewarded for their strategic abilities than many positions. Pitchers also get a great deal of reward for strategic thinking (Greg Maddux, for example). But that doesn’t mean that all pitchers and catchers are smart (even strategically speaking). Furthermore, it really has nothing to do with how smart or dumb Ryne Sandberg is.
Returning to what I believe to be your main point, I agree that Mike Scioscia has long been regarded as a bright man who makes for a good manager. And while I think that intelligence has been rewarded by his former position behind the plate (and probably kept him in the league long enough to get noticed), I think Mike Scioscia’s intelligence says more about the man than about the position of catcher. I disagree with your assertion that anyone who played pitcher or catcher would be a better choice than Sandberg.
"Sometimes you eat the bar and sometimes..."
The catcher is the only
player on the field to view every play. He is involved on every pitch. So his background best prepares him for managing. On the other hand, the pitcher has little to do with the team defensively and almost none offensively. What makes you think they share the vision necessary to manage? Maddux yes. Farnsworth no.
And you should notice I never mentioned specific players when I answered you above. And I certainly never generalized about the wisdom of certain positions although I do agree that catchers have more involvement on offense and defense which should prepare them better. However, that does not make them smarter aka Barrett and Hundley.
If a quality pitching start is 3 runs and 6 innings, then a quality hitting day is 1 for 4.
Thanks
I appreciate that you guys both took the time to explain your responses, and I have to agree with you. My initial post was a bit too brief to stand on its own – the way it was stated did not advance my argument the way that I thought that it did in the 30 seconds that I took to compose it. No offense intended.
"Wait, are you saying I'm a sunshine-pumping, koolaid-drinking, Soriano-loving, rainbow-rising, unicorn-riding, double-clutching, Sweet Lou-backing, Hendry-supporting, hey hey whaddya saying, Cubs are going all the waying, glass is overflowing, Rothschild is all-knowing, Cubs fan? - ballhawk
I'm sorry, do you have some knowledge you care to impart?
When exactly did it become known that Ryno is stupid?
This is the kind of argument that takes any rational discussion off the rails.
by HuskerCorner on Jul 20, 2010 3:32 PM CDT up reply actions
That train left the station
a long time ago.
If a quality pitching start is 3 runs and 6 innings, then a quality hitting day is 1 for 4.
That would be a perfect place for your posts...
by TJ11 on Jul 20, 2010 1:44 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
::stifles laughter::
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Jul 20, 2010 1:45 PM CDT up reply actions
That's a first.
Shut Up Joe Morgan
by Sandberg's evil twin on Jul 20, 2010 2:40 PM CDT up reply actions
So says "Mr. Exclamation Point"
Again, I consider the source(s). Then I laugh.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jul 20, 2010 1:46 PM CDT up reply actions
NBF is AMAZING!!!
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by BrewCrew'sPrinceofDarkness on Jul 20, 2010 2:35 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
and you know he will be an inferior manager because?
or are you just a baseball traditionalist who wants the Cubs to bring in another “veteran”/retread.
Not me. Time for new blood, and since the Cubs are likely to be a younger team in 2011 versus 2009-10, I think the current AAA manager is the right guy for the job.
Carlos Silva lemonade: made from freshly squeezed Milton Bradley lemons. -- the Jim Hendry kook book.
And an added point here...
Ryno has been the Manager of a lot of the new kids we will be seeing in the next few years as their manager so there is a lot less adjustment for them.
I’m wondering what it is that has a few thinking Ryno doesn’t have the IQ to
Manage at the big league level?
Years of friendship?
Long Dinners over Cognac and Cigars?
Please… enlighten us?
Roberto Duran to Sugar Ray Leonard - No Mas... No Mas...
-------------
Hicks: That's it, man. Game over, man. Game over, what the **** are we supposed to now, huh, what are we gonna do?
-------------
"Why people, who have not committed any punishable offense, listen to Country and Western music is absolutely beyond me" - John Cleese
Why we question his smarts
Years of observation of him as a player and manager candidate.
As a player, he was barely able to express a thought coherently – not a go-to guy for deep baseball thought.
The elder statesman Ryno that we see today seems more like a politician. He can speak well enough in a friendly way, but there does not seem to be much there beyond a slogan (“play baseball the right way”). There is an absence of anecdotes about brilliant moves that he has made, and plenty about him being a hot head.
"Wait, are you saying I'm a sunshine-pumping, koolaid-drinking, Soriano-loving, rainbow-rising, unicorn-riding, double-clutching, Sweet Lou-backing, Hendry-supporting, hey hey whaddya saying, Cubs are going all the waying, glass is overflowing, Rothschild is all-knowing, Cubs fan? - ballhawk
LA Carl
You ask for new blood, but with Ryno, you are actually arguing for old blood. What is new about the game these days is that there are great statistical analyses available to help determine what is the better bet in a given situation. Ryno does not have the brains to apply these, is on record as dismissing them in favor of old style, “playing the game the right way”.
"Wait, are you saying I'm a sunshine-pumping, koolaid-drinking, Soriano-loving, rainbow-rising, unicorn-riding, double-clutching, Sweet Lou-backing, Hendry-supporting, hey hey whaddya saying, Cubs are going all the waying, glass is overflowing, Rothschild is all-knowing, Cubs fan? - ballhawk
Oh, c'mon.
He’s 67. His retirement isn’t indicative of being chewed up and spit out.
Joe Torre is 70
I’m sure had things gone better the last few years, Lou could have struggled for another couple.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jul 20, 2010 1:42 PM CDT up reply actions
I don't agree, eg
I’m not sure any manager could have made things better.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jul 20, 2010 1:44 PM CDT up reply actions
I think Jesus might have
Maybe Mohammed. Or maybe us evil fans would have overcome them too.
There is no such thing as an ugly female breast
Mohammed would have made things interesting
but the inability to portray him in BCB cartoons would prove frustrating…
"I'll take one in the mouth over the eyes any day". - AJ Pierzynski
by lostinthevines on Jul 20, 2010 1:55 PM CDT up reply actions
LOL
"Wait, are you saying I'm a sunshine-pumping, koolaid-drinking, Soriano-loving, rainbow-rising, unicorn-riding, double-clutching, Sweet Lou-backing, Hendry-supporting, hey hey whaddya saying, Cubs are going all the waying, glass is overflowing, Rothschild is all-knowing, Cubs fan? - ballhawk
I would have.
Shut Up Joe Morgan
by Sandberg's evil twin on Jul 20, 2010 2:07 PM CDT up reply actions
I think you me DeJesus
And I say no, I would like to keep him right at first base coach thank you very much.
Well, I hope someone can. He's retiring.
Contributing Editor, SB Nation Chicago. Please follow us on Twitter!
I know, just repeating what the above poster said. NOBODY could do a better job!
ALL managers would have stuck with Theriot as their main leadoff hitters.
DLee would bat 3rd for ALL managers.
Right NOT Bruce?
I don't think
you’d see anything different in the over-debated lineup construction than what you’ve seen this year, no.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jul 20, 2010 1:50 PM CDT up reply actions
WOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
All managers would have managed just like Lou this year with the Cubs??
Hope caps lock is working fer ya.
Otherwise you might get carpal tunnel today.
Shut Up Joe Morgan
by Sandberg's evil twin on Jul 20, 2010 2:08 PM CDT up reply actions
Yowza.
I don’t know what to say except holy crap are you wrong.
by HuskerCorner on Jul 20, 2010 3:45 PM CDT up reply actions
Did Lou help?
I think he badly mismanaged the team following the clinching of the NL Central in 2008 by resting players. Then when the playoffs came around, the Cubs were unable to turn it on against the Dodgers. I think Lou made some bad moves in 2009, but that was a year mostly destabilized by injuries. 2010 is just horrible all around.
RIP Ronnie James Dio (July 10, 1942 - May 16, 2010).
by Ace Venom on Jul 20, 2010 1:52 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
But he did not rest players before the playoffs in 2007
And look how that turned out. I think that it was reasonable to try something different, considering the 2007 playoff experience. Somehow the team came out flat in both circumstances. It was time for a little roster readjustment after that.
At every step, the path taken was violently criticized. I think that rehashing this somewhat supports the “chewed up and spit out” viewpoint.
"Wait, are you saying I'm a sunshine-pumping, koolaid-drinking, Soriano-loving, rainbow-rising, unicorn-riding, double-clutching, Sweet Lou-backing, Hendry-supporting, hey hey whaddya saying, Cubs are going all the waying, glass is overflowing, Rothschild is all-knowing, Cubs fan? - ballhawk
The Cubs don't really have great luck against the Diamondbacks
It was an unlucky draw. Letting the Brewers into the playoffs was also the worst thing we could have done. If we had drawn the Mets in the first round, things would have been much better.
RIP Ronnie James Dio (July 10, 1942 - May 16, 2010).
It's not just the chronological age.
Lou seems a lot older than Torre by the way he looks and acts.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
I stand by my point that winning makes things easier
RIP Ronnie James Dio (July 10, 1942 - May 16, 2010).
What a bombshell
"I'll take one in the mouth over the eyes any day". - AJ Pierzynski
by lostinthevines on Jul 20, 2010 2:08 PM CDT up reply actions
It's "Cubs Years"...
… sort of like dog years. Seems to me lou has aged 3 years for every year he’s managed the Cubs. Seriously:
٩(͡๏̯͡๏)۶ Dum spiro spero... | Twitter: @andrewjstone.
by AndrewJStone on Jul 20, 2010 2:04 PM CDT up reply actions
Sure does.
Belly looks half the size. This is what the Cubs do to you?
Shut Up Joe Morgan
by Sandberg's evil twin on Jul 20, 2010 2:09 PM CDT up reply actions
Three hours from now he'll be craving a bag of Doritos
I'll go to my grave believing Armando Galarraga tossed the 21st perfect game in MLB history.
Lou has looked 7-8 mos pregnant the whole time he has managed the Cubs.
For 70, Torre does a nice job of taking care of himself.
Your comments make no sense to me. The Cubs have brought in two veteran managers with winning reputations and what have they done with it? Squat.
Next.
Carlos Silva lemonade: made from freshly squeezed Milton Bradley lemons. -- the Jim Hendry kook book.
awesome, because who doesn't want a manager who is "struggling" through their day?
Sounds like exactly what we need!
by HuskerCorner on Jul 20, 2010 3:33 PM CDT up reply actions
Holy crap...and you call us the idiots?
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Jul 20, 2010 1:41 PM CDT up reply actions
I can see his point of view
I have to wonder if Piniella would have stuck around for a few more years if the Cubs had won it all in 2008. Nothing was the same for the organization after they were swept out of the playoffs by the Dodgers.
RIP Ronnie James Dio (July 10, 1942 - May 16, 2010).
Actually ...
I think he might have retired earlier had the team won it all in 2008. But I agree that nothing has been the same since the Dodgers series.
Now this is something
that we can find common ground on. Most recommended.
by Damen Jackson on Jul 20, 2010 2:29 PM CDT up reply actions
Chewed up and spit out?
There was widespread speculation across all of baseball that Lou would retire after this deal was up…. on the day he signed the contract.
"You win because of the quarterback. We have to get that position stabilized. We're fixated on that." -- Jerry Angelo (12.30.2008)
Jerry Angelo trades for Jay Cutler! (4.2.2009)
I agree with your first statement...
…but let’s face it, 2 division championships and 3 winning seasons out of 4 for a Cubs manager is clearly new ground.
With that said, I am not against Sandberg, but I do believe there may indeed be a few candidates who are proven winners to choose from.
This is not a position you fill on emotion, because it will likely come back and bite you in the ass, especially if the orgnanization above the manager does not improve.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
Thanks, Lou.
Bobby Valentine, with Sandberg serving as apprentice/bench coach?
I love to play baseball. I'm a baseball player. I've always been a baseball player. I'm still a baseball player. That's who I am. - Ryne Sandberg
Long shot, but make a play
for Girardi.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jul 20, 2010 1:35 PM CDT up reply actions
I'm not opposed.
Until the Yankees extend his contract (and how can they not at some point), might as well look into it.
I love to play baseball. I'm a baseball player. I've always been a baseball player. I'm still a baseball player. That's who I am. - Ryne Sandberg
If Girardi is available, I'd make him the offer.
If not, then it should be Sandberg.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
That's how I would go, too.
Bobby Valentine’s ego is a little too big for my liking.
I love to play baseball. I'm a baseball player. I've always been a baseball player. I'm still a baseball player. That's who I am. - Ryne Sandberg
Yeah, I'm not digging Valentine on ESPN.
He seems a little…unstable.
Contributing Editor, SB Nation Chicago. Please follow us on Twitter!
that's a polite word for it.
I love to play baseball. I'm a baseball player. I've always been a baseball player. I'm still a baseball player. That's who I am. - Ryne Sandberg
agreed
and along those same lines… after the article on Maddux from a couple days ago, do you think he’d want to step into some sort of coaching role on the new staff?
random thoughts aplenty: @crouch17
Happiness...
Is Girardi on board, with the caveat of Sandberg as bench coach.
by Damen Jackson on Jul 20, 2010 2:34 PM CDT up reply actions
Well I think the Cubs should try to make a Play for Ted Williams
He’s Frozen head it around here somewhere.
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by BrewCrew'sPrinceofDarkness on Jul 20, 2010 2:36 PM CDT up reply actions
As much as I criticized Lou, it's time to review his career
He’s been a baseball man for over four decades now. It’s sometimes difficult to remember how good of a player Lou actually was due to the fact that Piniella has been managing since the mid-1980’s. Like Leo Durocher, Lou Piniella had to leave a franchise he called home to win a World Series with another team as a manger. Also like Durocher, PIniella was spit out by the Chicago Cubs. He won’t be the last manager to be spit out by this organization that just can’t seem to get back to the promised land. Godspeed, Lou. See you in Cooperstown.
RIP Ronnie James Dio (July 10, 1942 - May 16, 2010).
Lou in Cooperstown???
…why, are you planning to take him with you on your next visit?
Lou was a good journeyman player and a good journeyman manager. Not a HOF’er by any stretch either as a player or a manager.
If he had won in 2008, that might have gotten him in.
Otherwise, no.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
I think he will get in
The VC elects contributors and not players these days.
RIP Ronnie James Dio (July 10, 1942 - May 16, 2010).
Anyone who wins a WS with the Cubs should get into the HOF
A-well-a Byrd, Byrd, Byrd, well the Byrd is the word.
and a free blowjob
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Jul 20, 2010 2:13 PM CDT up reply actions
And a ham sandy.
٩(͡๏̯͡๏)۶ Dum spiro spero... | Twitter: @andrewjstone.
by AndrewJStone on Jul 20, 2010 2:17 PM CDT up reply actions
Sandberg agrees with this.
Shut Up Joe Morgan
by Sandberg's evil twin on Jul 20, 2010 2:41 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
no such thing as "free"
everything has a cost :-)
Carlos Silva lemonade: made from freshly squeezed Milton Bradley lemons. -- the Jim Hendry kook book.
Are you taking applications?
If a quality pitching start is 3 runs and 6 innings, then a quality hitting day is 1 for 4.
A-Rod, Griffey Jr., Big Unit and Edgar Martinez
as a core unit for a good stretch of years and never won anything? On balance, Lou’s profile as a manager is more of an underachiever than an all time great.
1990 WS win is obviously a major accomplishment. The same number of WS wins as Brenley and Dallas Green, to name two. I haven’t heard any HOF chat regarding them.
and Mayo Smith, and Jack McKeon, and Joe Altobelli....
I'll go to my grave believing Armando Galarraga tossed the 21st perfect game in MLB history.
Thanks for reminding me why I never supported him
Thought I was alone here.
RIP Ronnie James Dio (July 10, 1942 - May 16, 2010).
Look, he's won over 1800 games he's not a damn dummy
;)
A-well-a Byrd, Byrd, Byrd, well the Byrd is the word.
What do you want him to do?
Steve Swisher - 1976 NL All-Star Catcher
by Dan Serafini on Jul 20, 2010 1:35 PM CDT reply actions 1 recs
Which Lou?
The one that got this team into the playoffs by in 2007 with shear will or the old guy taking catnaps during the game?
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by BrewCrew'sPrinceofDarkness on Jul 20, 2010 2:38 PM CDT up reply actions
Shocker.
I thank Lou for his time, but count me as one that won’t miss him. If that’s mean, I’m sorry. I never wanted him from day one.
"Pounding sand since 1982...."
That's better than die. Your outlook seems to be good today.
Shut Up Joe Morgan
by Sandberg's evil twin on Jul 20, 2010 2:12 PM CDT up reply actions
Then Who?
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by BrewCrew'sPrinceofDarkness on Jul 20, 2010 2:39 PM CDT up reply actions
Who's on first.
Shut Up Joe Morgan
by Sandberg's evil twin on Jul 20, 2010 2:51 PM CDT up reply actions
I'm asking you. Who's one first?
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by BrewCrew'sPrinceofDarkness on Jul 20, 2010 2:58 PM CDT up reply actions
stay outta the infield!
I'll go to my grave believing Armando Galarraga tossed the 21st perfect game in MLB history.
I don't know.
Shut Up Joe Morgan
by Sandberg's evil twin on Jul 20, 2010 3:11 PM CDT up reply actions
He's on third.
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by BrewCrew'sPrinceofDarkness on Jul 20, 2010 3:17 PM CDT up reply actions
I have a suggestion:
No to Worf.
Carlos Silva lemonade: made from freshly squeezed Milton Bradley lemons. -- the Jim Hendry kook book.
I thought you paid good money to NBF to find out?
I kid. I kid.
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by BrewCrew'sPrinceofDarkness on Jul 20, 2010 3:03 PM CDT up reply actions
That costs 10 bucks in mexico.
Shut Up Joe Morgan
by Sandberg's evil twin on Jul 20, 2010 3:07 PM CDT up reply actions
Thanks Lou
I don’t think that Lou always made the right move, but he did some good things for this club. I do think that he gave it his all, and his well wishes for the organization confirm that he is a class act.
"Wait, are you saying I'm a sunshine-pumping, koolaid-drinking, Soriano-loving, rainbow-rising, unicorn-riding, double-clutching, Sweet Lou-backing, Hendry-supporting, hey hey whaddya saying, Cubs are going all the waying, glass is overflowing, Rothschild is all-knowing, Cubs fan? - ballhawk
Bobby Brenley or Sandbergy!
"That's life, that's what all the people say.
You're riding high in April,
Shot down in May
But I know I'm gonna change that tune,
When I'm back on top, back on top in June."
- Big boy Frankie
I heard this on ESPN Radio
I was gonna post it, but I knew it was big news
by braziliancubsfan on Jul 20, 2010 1:39 PM CDT reply actions
Not really news...
Been assumed pretty much he wouldn’t be back and especially after this woeful season, it’s time for a change of leadership.
Ryno is my choice as new skipper I think he’ll get them back on track, fundamentally.
If Pinella weren’t in his last year and Ricketts in his first as owner, I suspect he might have been fired a while ago, simply to give team a spark. But out of respect for Lou and his career, they’ve kept him and now the end is in sight.
This is significant in that it's official.
But does it really shock anyone?
Not shocked at all.
I’m a little surprised he announced it this early, but I can see his reasoning.
Contributing Editor, SB Nation Chicago. Please follow us on Twitter!
I wouldn't be surprised if the Cubs' decision to make some major moves ...
prompted Lou’s decisions.
"What?! You're releasing Koyie Hill?"
“That tears it – I’m outta here!”
Contributing Editor, SB Nation Chicago. Please follow us on Twitter!
Lou, I wish you all the best in the next months and years.
I admire the decision and the reasoning.
If the Cubs still have a chance, no matter how small, it’s still Go Cubs, damn the math and pass the KoolAid.
by eths on Jul 20, 2010 1:44 PM CDT reply actions 1 recs
There is pressure to win in Chicago
but there is pressure to win for every MLB manager. The goal for the organization is to compete every year and be in the hunt for a playoff spot. With the payroll the Cubs have, they should easily be able to do that. I like Girardi if he’s available – and I like Ryno, too. Young guys who want to be a part of the organization for decades to come. It would be nice to have our own version of Bobby Cox on the North Side.
Get 'em on, Get 'em over, Get 'em in!
Does this mean Matt Sinatro is gone too?
Lou did an admirable job his first two seasons here, especially in 2007 with a pretty rag-tag group that included a fading Jacque Jones and the Jason Kendall/Rob Bowen/Koyie Hill experiment. Its a shame they didn’t have any success in the playoffs.
Girardi is a pipe dream.
Give me in this order:
1. Sandberg (I’m not sure you can blow off a Cub Icon who paid his dues and did everything the organization asked of him after he interviewed for the manager position after 2006, but told him he wasn’t ready).
2. Brenly
3. Someone else.
"You've got to get your damn shirts rolled up and go out and kick somebody's ass. That's what you've got to do. Period." -- Lou Piniella
But they want a lot of money.
Shut Up Joe Morgan
by Sandberg's evil twin on Jul 20, 2010 2:14 PM CDT up reply actions
Does Sangberg like putting the worst OBP player at the top of the order and the best in the 7th or 8th spot?
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Jul 20, 2010 1:46 PM CDT up reply actions
Not sure,
what kind of baseball do you play?
"You've got to get your damn shirts rolled up and go out and kick somebody's ass. That's what you've got to do. Period." -- Lou Piniella
Look what do you want me to do?
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by BrewCrew'sPrinceofDarkness on Jul 20, 2010 2:39 PM CDT up reply actions
I'm not sure 3.5 seasons of minor-league managing
is the equivalent of “paying your dues,” but …
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jul 20, 2010 1:48 PM CDT up reply actions
The Cubs brass told him to get experience, he's done that,
has knowledge of the organization and the talent that is coming up. You could do worse…
What has Valentine done in the last 10 years, in America?
Cora and Oquendo are intriguing though, Cora probably wouldn’t come here, due to some b.s. loyalty thing with the Sox, but Oquendo maybe? He may be holding out for LaRussa’s job though.
"You've got to get your damn shirts rolled up and go out and kick somebody's ass. That's what you've got to do. Period." -- Lou Piniella
It's more experience
than Piniella had when he first was hired.
by Josh Timmers on Jul 20, 2010 2:15 PM CDT up reply actions
Sandberg is a good sign.
If he’s coming in maybe the Cubs will start re-building. They can use Sandberg to drive up the gate while the cubs re-build in 2011 and 2012. If Sandberg sucks fire him and get a real managers. If he turns out to be good then you caught lighting in a bottle and maybe we can win a series in the 21st Century.
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by BrewCrew'sPrinceofDarkness on Jul 20, 2010 2:42 PM CDT up reply actions
Does this mean Matt Sinatro is gone too?
I’d think so. Sinatro played and coached for Lou in Seattle as well as here.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
♪♫ Start spreadin' the news... ♪♫
Contributing Editor, SB Nation Chicago. Please follow us on Twitter!
Last I heard, he'd been moved to an office job of some sort.
Contributing Editor, SB Nation Chicago. Please follow us on Twitter!
He does hang around in uniform before the games.
Have seen him around the outfield during batting practice. I think his official title is “special assistant”.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
I'll miss him and his total disregard for undershirts!
"You've got to get your damn shirts rolled up and go out and kick somebody's ass. That's what you've got to do. Period." -- Lou Piniella
Matt Sinatro
always coached first base “his way”.
Sandberg's made some impressively moronic decisions as a minor league manager
Also, those Yahoo articles he wrote a few years ago expressing outright hostility towards statistics while talking about “playing the game the right way” were rather disheartening.
No thanks to Ryno.
He's also a hothead
I have little interest in seeing someone who thinks managing is yelling.
There is no such thing as an ugly female breast
How do you feel about someone who thinks managing is napping?
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Jul 20, 2010 1:49 PM CDT up reply actions
using logic was banned here, Worf.
Shut Up Joe Morgan
by Sandberg's evil twin on Jul 20, 2010 2:16 PM CDT up reply actions
This
"I'll take one in the mouth over the eyes any day". - AJ Pierzynski
by lostinthevines on Jul 20, 2010 3:38 PM CDT up reply actions
Unless I am mistaken
The debate isn’t between Piniella or Sandberg. Not sure why you are treating every criticism of Ryno as if it is.
I'm not.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Jul 20, 2010 2:15 PM CDT up reply actions
...
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by BrewCrew'sPrinceofDarkness on Jul 20, 2010 2:44 PM CDT up reply actions
What?
Where on Earth do you get that idea?
And please cite some of these “impressively moronic decisions.”
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
Bunting with the #3 hitter in the first inning was something he did with annoying frequency in Tennessee
by Outshined_One on Jul 20, 2010 1:51 PM CDT up reply actions
good thing no one on the major league team can bunt
by jesus christos on Jul 20, 2010 1:53 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
LOL
This may be the best post EVER!
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by BrewCrew'sPrinceofDarkness on Jul 20, 2010 2:44 PM CDT up reply actions
two quesitons...
1) was the #3 hitter a prototype #3 hitter?
2) is the object of AA ball to win every game or develop player’s skills?
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Jul 20, 2010 1:53 PM CDT up reply actions
Alright...
To start out, the difficulty in tracking down this information has been really annoying. Unfortunately, sites like Minor League Splits do not keep track of failed sacrifice bunt attempts or instances where a player at first tried for a bunt, but later ended up having the PA end differently. So, sadly, the official “SH” statistic is a bit shaky here.
In response to your first query, in some cases, no, the #3/#4/#5 hitters were not always “prototypical” for those spots. Ty Wright and James Adduci don’t exactly qualify for classic power hitting prospects. However, guys like Tyler Colvin, Brandon Guyer, Marquez Smith, and even Starlin Castro (to an extent) fit the bill a bit better.
In response to your second query, developing a player’s skills is not necessarily tied to their ability to bunt. Tyler Colvin’s value as a hitter at the moment is tied to the fact that he can hit the holy crap out of the ball. To me, one of the skills a prospect (like Colvin was last year) needs to develop is the ability to learn how to hit with runners on base, which entails knowing how to handle a pitcher out of the stretch, when to let guys steal bases, when to try and foul off pitches, etc. I don’t see the value in teaching that player how to effectively lay down a sacrifice bunt when they’ll provide more value to teams through their hitting. I don’t see the point in asking someone like Ty Wright to lay down a sacrifice bunt in the first inning with no outs and two men on base.
by Outshined_One on Jul 20, 2010 2:36 PM CDT up reply actions
OK.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Jul 20, 2010 2:38 PM CDT up reply actions
Obviously there is a huge difference
between occasionally bunting with the #3 man, who you don’t know the name of, and constantly bunting in that situation. I had never heard that Sandberg was a frequent user of the bunt.and this year Iowa is squarely in the middle of the pack with 40 SH. Last year at Tenn, the Smokies had only 58 sacs the whole year.
But aside from the chasm between fact and fantsy, I want a manger who thinks outside the box. It keeps the opposing team off balance. This year’s Cubs team is one of the most predictable in the majors which is one of the many reasons the season is going so poorly.
If a quality pitching start is 3 runs and 6 innings, then a quality hitting day is 1 for 4.
I wouldn't mind seeing someone ask Lee to bunt once in awhile,
he’s grounded into many a double play with men at first and second.
"You've got to get your damn shirts rolled up and go out and kick somebody's ass. That's what you've got to do. Period." -- Lou Piniella
No he shouldn't be hitting third. But
there is nothing WE can do about that, except dream.
"You've got to get your damn shirts rolled up and go out and kick somebody's ass. That's what you've got to do. Period." -- Lou Piniella
I'm guessing not was somewhere in the name.
Shut Up Joe Morgan
by Sandberg's evil twin on Jul 20, 2010 2:17 PM CDT up reply actions
do you have the links to those yahoo articles?
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Jul 20, 2010 1:48 PM CDT up reply actions
I'm trying to dig them up, I know Yahoo took them down, but a few of the articles were cached
by Outshined_One on Jul 20, 2010 1:52 PM CDT up reply actions
Google doesn't have much
Looks like most of his articles were taken down.
by Outshined_One on Jul 20, 2010 2:38 PM CDT up reply actions
Watch out, OO,
the Ryno-maniacs will be all over you.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jul 20, 2010 1:48 PM CDT up reply actions
you are the one asking for it...
We know your stance. One which I happen to agree with for the most part.
Jack
derv
It started
even before the virtual ink was dry on my post.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jul 20, 2010 1:51 PM CDT up reply actions
I'm thinking of templating your subject line derv
save everyone some time.
Anyways I would be interested in seeing those articles or concrete examples of his managing.
"Actually, Major League Baseball is more like Neverland
And the Lost Boys don’t have to ever grow up. Some do, anyway, but that is not a universal characteristic"
by Madison Cub Fan on Jul 20, 2010 1:52 PM CDT up reply actions
To your "Ryno isn't very bright" comments, NBF
he can’t be any dumber than Lou…
I'll go to my grave believing Armando Galarraga tossed the 21st perfect game in MLB history.
Or Baker
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Jul 20, 2010 2:09 PM CDT up reply actions
playing the game right?
oh jesus get theriot out of here!
by jesus christos on Jul 20, 2010 1:49 PM CDT up reply actions
and Soriano.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Jul 20, 2010 1:49 PM CDT up reply actions
I think Pinella is back in a dugout after a year off
Maybe as a hitting coach or bench coach, a la Zimmer.
There is no such thing as an ugly female breast
for the Cardinals.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Jul 20, 2010 1:50 PM CDT up reply actions
That's probably more likely.
Being near home is gonna mean something to him at some point.
Shut Up Joe Morgan
by Sandberg's evil twin on Jul 20, 2010 2:19 PM CDT up reply actions
Not a chance.
He’s had a standing offer to be a Yankees consultant. That’s what he’ll do — probably do some spring training instructing in Tampa for them.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
Nah...back on ESPN stuttering and slobbering on Baseball Tonight.
Ron Santo - 8,143 ABs, .277 BA; 342 HR; 1331 RBI = NO Hall of Fame?
Brooks Robinson - 10,654 ABs, .267 BA; 268 HR; 1357 RBI = Hall of Fame.
Any more questions ?
Farewell, Sweet Lou
It has been another wacky four years that have reminded me a lot of Dusty Baker’s tenure: two good teams (03-04, 07-08), a decent team (05, 09) and a crap team (06, 10).
As for the next manager, my initial reaction was immediately to hire Ryno. That is what I want to happen because I think the Cubs need a Cub to manage them. Having said that, I know that rumors are flying about regarding Joe Girardi and Joe Torre that need to be looked in to. However, I can’t see Girardi leaving the Bronx, especially if the Yankees win it again this year and I don’t know how much longer Torre will manage for. I also think the Cubs need to explore the possibilities of Bob Brenly and Jody Davis possibly managing.
Again, my position is that they hire Ryno to manage. But I think that they should look into every possible situation before they decide what the best fit is.
My ideal situation is to have the Cubs get a clean slate:
Manager: Ryne Sandberg
Pitching Coach: Greg Maddux (Rothschild has done a great job, but like I said…clean slate)
Hitting Coach: Rudy Jaramillo (give him at least another year)
General Manager: Andre Dawson ;)
A-well-a Byrd, Byrd, Byrd, well the Byrd is the word.
AL, Just curious as to your reasons why...
you would want Ryno as next Cub manager?
If you think you've seen it all...just wait!
by CubFanSince1970 on Jul 20, 2010 1:54 PM CDT reply actions
Yeah, why?
He’s 253-258 overall in 4 years, he doesn’t seem to get across fundamentals well(Castro’s glove tapping – example #1), and gets thrown out too much.
"Any player who gets the opportunity to play at Wrigley should welcome it"
Is Ryno a Sabermetric guy?
That’s what the Ricketts’ are looking for.
"Any player who gets the opportunity to play at Wrigley should welcome it"
I'd argue that Art Howe and Ken Macha were, with the A's
but there the mandate was to shut up and just play the guys Beane gave them to work with.
I'll go to my grave believing Armando Galarraga tossed the 21st perfect game in MLB history.
Tony Larussa
is known for his use of spreadsheets, matchups, stats, etc -
by paul_reuschel on Jul 20, 2010 2:25 PM CDT up reply actions
drinking, PED ignorance.....
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Jul 20, 2010 2:26 PM CDT up reply actions
True, Dave Duncan
and LaRussa have been doing that for years, but its his staff that compiles everything. But he definitely uses stats.
"You've got to get your damn shirts rolled up and go out and kick somebody's ass. That's what you've got to do. Period." -- Lou Piniella
Im certainly not defending LaRussa's failings as a manager or human being -
Just answering Al’s question. Love him or hate him, he has had an incredibly successful career as a manager. The fact that he may not compile the data himself is irrelevant – the fact that he uses it is what matters.
by paul_reuschel on Jul 20, 2010 3:01 PM CDT up reply actions
The fact
That he hires the right guys to do it also means a lot. It’s certainly not a coincidence that he’s had Duncan working for him winning over the years. Duncan keeps a log himself of what each hitter does with each pitch, something usually relegated to other bench coaches. He therefore has a lot of knowledge to impart to his pitchers and TLR. In addition to being the best pitching coach in the league by a wide margin.
Shut Up Joe Morgan
by Sandberg's evil twin on Jul 21, 2010 2:38 AM CDT up reply actions
A minor league managing W/L record is nearly irrelevant.
I posted this above, I’ll do it again.
Sandberg applied for the job after 2006. He was told to get experience. He did so — starting at the bottom of the ladder. He worked hard and impressed everyone in the organization. How many Hall of Fame players have done that? Answer = zero.
He’s done everything asked of him. To not give him the job after that would be a real slap in the face.
Your examples have no basis. Thrown out “too much”? How many times? Got numbers?
And as far as young players, Tyler Colvin raved about him as his manager last year at Double-A.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
I'm with you. I think he should get it.
Thrown out in a minor league ballgame only shows his passion.
A-well-a Byrd, Byrd, Byrd, well the Byrd is the word.
Regarding the young players
I’ve read a few people (here and elsewhere) saying another advantage to having Ryno as the manager was he’s very familiar with all the young players who will hopefully be coming up in the next few years. Obviously that’s not in and of itself a good reason to hire him, but it’s certainly something worth thinking about.
I’m not sold either way, but I like the idea.
"They say the glee team has lured straggler into sniper traps with cheery renditions of hit songs." "Really? And people fall for that?"
Agreed
I love to play baseball. I'm a baseball player. I've always been a baseball player. I'm still a baseball player. That's who I am. - Ryne Sandberg
You realize the pressure that Sandberg would face as an ex-Cub???
Look what happened to Tigers icon Alan Trammell when he became manager. So he gets a slap in the face. Business is business. Winning is everything. Bring in a guy with MLB experience. I vote for Bob Brenley.
"Hey-Hey! Home Run! Attaboy Ronnie!" ~ Jack Brickhouse
Brenly probably votes for staying in the booth, where he makes good money in a low-pressure job.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
Agreed
He has a comfy job right now. Unless he was really itching to manage again, why would he leave it?
RIP Ronnie James Dio (July 10, 1942 - May 16, 2010).
He's said before he didn't want to stop broadcasting.
I’d ask again to get a pool of candidates like Girardi, I just wouldn’t expect him to say he’d do it.
Shut Up Joe Morgan
by Sandberg's evil twin on Jul 20, 2010 2:21 PM CDT up reply actions
But if Bob is Manager
He can call up his Son faster
(This story was produced by BCPDnewservice. Our motto: If you don’t like this story then suck it!)
by BrewCrew'sPrinceofDarkness on Jul 20, 2010 2:47 PM CDT up reply actions
Worked for Duncan at pitching coach.
Shut Up Joe Morgan
by Sandberg's evil twin on Jul 20, 2010 3:12 PM CDT up reply actions
Trammell was thrown into a much more difficult situation
"You've got to get your damn shirts rolled up and go out and kick somebody's ass. That's what you've got to do. Period." -- Lou Piniella
He was at least 6 times here in Peoria
Just asking what he’s done to have us give him this job. Being a Cub doesn’t cut for me, no Cub alive has ever experienced winning and the pressure who really be on an ex-Cub.
"Any player who gets the opportunity to play at Wrigley should welcome it"
Managing in the minors
is not the same as managing in the majors. You really can’t tell what kind of a manager Sandberg would be from his minor league experience, except that he’s probably going to get thrown out of a lot of games.
Sandberg has done a very good job of developing talent. Colvin, Castro and Cashner all played for him. Darwin Barney seems to have a mystical attachment to him. I don’t think Barney is even a prospect without Sandberg.
Of course, none of that matters in the majors.
Sandberg has said things about the game that concern me. He doesn’t seem to be very forward thinking towards the new analysis. He tends to stress “Playing the game the right way” which leads to Mike Fontenot getting way more at bats than he should.
But honestly, we’re going to have no idea what kind of a manager he’ll be on the major league level until he becomes one. Those who think he’s not Mike Scioscia, well, he might not be. But Mike Scioscia loves bunting, the running game and plays catchers who remind him of himself over ones that can actually hit. Yet he’s incredibly successful.
Sandberg could stink too. We just aren’t going to know until we try.
by Josh Timmers on Jul 20, 2010 2:22 PM CDT up reply actions 2 recs
That's exactly why some Cubs fans would love him
Because he gets thrown out of games a lot. “Oh, look! He has fire and passion!”
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jul 20, 2010 2:24 PM CDT up reply actions
But you can't tell me
that Joey Cora would be any different.
And again, Sandberg has far more experience than Joe Girardi when Girardi got the Marlins job.
by Josh Timmers on Jul 20, 2010 2:29 PM CDT up reply actions
Joe Girardi also had a WS ring on his finger
and has more intelligence in his pinky than Sandberg might in his body.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jul 20, 2010 2:32 PM CDT up reply actions
And he's not coming to Chicago
And he had less experience than Sandberg had when he took over the Marlins.
by Josh Timmers on Jul 20, 2010 2:33 PM CDT up reply actions
I said it was a long shot
Give me a choice between Girardi and Ryno and I’ll take Girardi 101 times out of 100.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jul 20, 2010 2:35 PM CDT up reply actions
Did Ryne Sandberg sleep with your wife or something?
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Jul 20, 2010 2:39 PM CDT up reply actions
I loved him as a player
just like I loved Ron Santo as a player.
I don’t want Santo in the broadcast booth, and I don’t want Sandberg running this team.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jul 20, 2010 2:40 PM CDT up reply actions
I'm with ya on Santo
"I'll take one in the mouth over the eyes any day". - AJ Pierzynski
by lostinthevines on Jul 20, 2010 3:59 PM CDT up reply actions
I'd watch out for corncob dresses in the closet.
Shut Up Joe Morgan
by Sandberg's evil twin on Jul 20, 2010 2:44 PM CDT up reply actions
Does World Series experience really matter, though?
Case in point: Tony La Russa and Joe Torre never were in the World Series. Heck, La Russa was a career .199 hitter with 203 plate appearances in his lifetime.
This isn’t to say that Girardi isn’t good. It’s just to say that the fact that he has a World Series ring may not be very important.
"Juuuuuuussst a bit outside. He tried for the corner and missed..."
- Harry Doyle
by Rusty in Peoria on Jul 20, 2010 2:48 PM CDT up reply actions
Clarification
As a player. Obviously both have been there as a manager.
"Juuuuuuussst a bit outside. He tried for the corner and missed..."
- Harry Doyle
by Rusty in Peoria on Jul 20, 2010 2:53 PM CDT up reply actions
Now that's just stupid talk.
I didn’t realize you had administered IQ tests to each of them. You clearly have no idea what you’re talking about.
"I'm not much of a chemistry guy. Chemistry to me is a pinch-hit double with the bases loaded." -Jim Frey
Your avatar
tells me all I need to know about your thought process, and that I should disregard it.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jul 20, 2010 2:56 PM CDT up reply actions
It's offical...you've jumped the shark.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Jul 20, 2010 2:57 PM CDT up reply actions
And landed in a reef in his leather jacket.
Hope the pinky is ok.
Shut Up Joe Morgan
by Sandberg's evil twin on Jul 20, 2010 3:14 PM CDT up reply actions
Girardi's ring was as a player.
Let’s hire Hideki Irabu to manage, then. He has a ring from the same WS!
Wait, scratch that. Let’s have Soriano be a player/manager. He’s got one, too!
"Sometimes you eat the bar and sometimes..."
He also has the friggin' YANKEES, not the Cubs
"I'll take one in the mouth over the eyes any day". - AJ Pierzynski
by lostinthevines on Jul 20, 2010 3:59 PM CDT up reply actions
Joe McCarthy was labeled a lousy busher when he 1st managed the Cubs
Many wondered what he did to merit the opportunity, but he ended up doing pretty good with the Cubs, Yankees, and Red Sox.
This is NOT to say Ryno is the 2nd coming of Marse Joe. Just my way of agreeing with Josh that you really don’t know what you’re getting until you give a guy a shot. So don’t give him an NTC, Jim!
I'll go to my grave believing Armando Galarraga tossed the 21st perfect game in MLB history.
Bingo
Sandberg might stink as a manager. But we’re not going to know until he gets the job.
by Josh Timmers on Jul 20, 2010 2:33 PM CDT up reply actions
Yes, and the Cubs job is perfect
for on-the-job training.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jul 20, 2010 2:36 PM CDT up reply actions
Is your cerebellum functional
or is your typing ability just brain-stem controlled?
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jul 20, 2010 2:37 PM CDT up reply actions
Are you being an overt asshole on purpose...
or is this game of using your own logic against you getting to you?
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Jul 20, 2010 2:40 PM CDT up reply actions
There's nothing logical about it
but “logic” and “BCB” don’t get along very well a lot of times.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jul 20, 2010 2:43 PM CDT up reply actions
world series rings have amazing powers
by jesus christos on Jul 20, 2010 2:45 PM CDT up reply actions
Joe Morgan for MANAGER.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Jul 20, 2010 2:48 PM CDT up reply actions
Why are you so opposed
to Cora and Oquendo? Let me turn this around on you.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jul 20, 2010 2:47 PM CDT up reply actions
That's a clever way to avoid answering his question.
Or are you conceding your hypocrisy?
"Sometimes you eat the bar and sometimes..."
No hypocrisy at all
Cora and Oquendo have had extensive experience on MAJOR-LEAGUE benches, including with TEAMS THAT HAVE WON WORLD SERIES.
Is that loud enough for you to hear?
Or are you another meatball fan who wants Ryno because you wet your shorts about him as a player 25 years ago?
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jul 20, 2010 3:33 PM CDT up reply actions
and they both have LESS managerial experience than Ryno
which is why NO ONE understands why you’re so against ryno, and so in favor of those two.
by HuskerCorner on Jul 20, 2010 3:35 PM CDT up reply actions
Put it this way
Jim Les coaches the Bradley University basketball team. He’s coach for seven-eight years and had a little success.
Would you hire him to coach the Orlando Magic?
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jul 20, 2010 3:48 PM CDT up reply actions
Amen.
It’s lovely to use an argument for and against something in the same topic.
Shut Up Joe Morgan
by Sandberg's evil twin on Jul 21, 2010 2:42 AM CDT up reply actions
First of all, NBF...
… thank you for finally explaining what you believe to qualify as MLB experience. That’s what I was looking for as far as a response to “on the job training.” That’s all I was asking for. It would appear, from your answer above, that you believe Cora and Oquendo will not need additional training because they have been coaches on the Major League level. This, in your opinion, qualifies them to manage in the big leagues. Got it.
Secondly, I don’t know if you were shouting as you typed that last post, but I didn’t hear a thing. The volume is off on my computer, so I had to read your statement.
Thirdly, I love meatballs. So, yeah, that makes me a “meatball fan.” What does that have to do with Sandberg? Is he an Italian or Swedish chef? I’m a fan of both kinds.
Fourth, 25 years ago I was 5. By then I was potty trained and had no real reason to wet my shorts.
Finally, while I humbly disagree with your assessment of the management situation (not because of the names involved), I appreciate your interest in my personal history and aural comfort.
"Sometimes you eat the bar and sometimes..."
by Phubbies on Jul 20, 2010 3:52 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Wow.
That last sentence is exactly why you have so many people responding to you with sarcasm and illogical arguments as well as insults.
Shut Up Joe Morgan
by Sandberg's evil twin on Jul 21, 2010 2:44 AM CDT up reply actions
He's told you repeatedly logic shouldn't be used.
no one listens.
Shut Up Joe Morgan
by Sandberg's evil twin on Jul 20, 2010 2:56 PM CDT up reply actions
Then you'll fit right in!
Shut Up Joe Morgan
by Sandberg's evil twin on Jul 20, 2010 2:55 PM CDT up reply actions
Let's bring in managerial candidates each week to co-manage with Lou
Put them in uniform and let them make pitching changes. You know how Lou hates to get up for stuff like that…
Get 'em on, Get 'em over, Get 'em in!
Um...they haven't exactly come off a World Series victory
Look, I get the fact that they ain’t won in 102 years. But a) we’ve no right to complain about it according to you, and b) the Cubs aren’t in the middle of a dynastic run of consecutive pennants. I’m just not seeing the inevitable carnage you’re assuming if Sandberg gets hired.
I'll go to my grave believing Armando Galarraga tossed the 21st perfect game in MLB history.
If your goal is to win now or soon,
Sandberg is not the guy.
Like I said, let him manage the Royals or Orioles for a while. He can afford to fail there.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jul 20, 2010 2:44 PM CDT up reply actions
anal bleaching
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Jul 20, 2010 2:47 PM CDT up reply actions
Make sure you follow the directions
(This story was produced by BCPDnewservice. Our motto: If you don’t like this story then suck it!)
by BrewCrew'sPrinceofDarkness on Jul 20, 2010 2:50 PM CDT up reply actions
Sandberg does have experience with that
At least from watching.
Shut Up Joe Morgan
by Sandberg's evil twin on Jul 20, 2010 2:57 PM CDT up reply actions
rec'd
if he manges the Royals and is fantastic, they aren’t going to call us up and ask us if we want him back since he proved himself.
The Bears decided they didn’t need Mike Singletary because they had Lovie and wanted Mike to prove himself. Well, he’s done that now, and we’ve proven that Lovie can’t coach. Do you think the Niners have offered to let us take Mike back?
DEJESUS!!!
Man we've sure been rueing the day we
forced Rivera out and Singletary. I don’t know if it was money, ego, or a combination of the two, but losing those two minds has certainly devastated the Bears almost as much as injuries.
Shut Up Joe Morgan
by Sandberg's evil twin on Jul 21, 2010 2:46 AM CDT up reply actions
I really wanna know what happened with Rivera.
You make the SB with an amazing D and the coordinator gets canned after, well, there’s clearly some sort of issue with the Head Coach, which, hey, happens. But to not make the playoffs since then doesn’t speak well. At all.
From what I understood,
and understand it’s not from a lot of study, he wanted a lot of money and a long term contract mgmt wasn’t ready to make, in addition to his ego conflicting with Lovie. Yeah I sure wish the Bears had at least tried to make a serious offer to Singletary when they let Rivera go…they sure have missed him and thought Lovie knowing D well enough meant they could plug anyone in and he would succeed…which has been obviously false. They are in a bad situation now with Lovie there and Rivera and Singletary not coming back anytime soon.
Shut Up Joe Morgan
by Sandberg's evil twin on Jul 21, 2010 3:14 AM CDT up reply actions
It really depends on the percentage of farm hands
that will be involved in the retooling. If the organization’s plan is to rely more and more on the likes of Castro, Cashner, etc. then it seems likely that Ricketts and Hendry may want to give Sandberg the job by virtue of his experience managing throughout the Cubs system.
I'll go to my grave believing Armando Galarraga tossed the 21st perfect game in MLB history.
I think I'd like the farmer's daughters more.
Shut Up Joe Morgan
by Sandberg's evil twin on Jul 20, 2010 2:58 PM CDT up reply actions
Minor league won loss records are pretty worthless, since
the point is to develop talent.
"You've got to get your damn shirts rolled up and go out and kick somebody's ass. That's what you've got to do. Period." -- Lou Piniella
Bobby Cox leads the world in ejections.
Guess that’s why he’s only won 2,000 or so games.
"I'll take one in the mouth over the eyes any day". - AJ Pierzynski
by lostinthevines on Jul 20, 2010 3:58 PM CDT up reply actions
First of all..
your first example is flawed. Ryne Sandberg had 31 games (AA) with Starlin Castro in the minors (and actually Castro went 6-6 for stolen bases) and had little to do with Castro’s glovetapping.
Maybe next year is finally our year.
**this is false**
not Lou’s words…never once did a sentence start with “look”
move along..just another internet rumor.
Does this mean the coaching staff will go as well?
Sinatro and Rothschild are lou’s people so a new manager could bring in his own coaches.
...
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Jul 20, 2010 1:57 PM CDT up reply actions
Maybe not, but those dollars are going to be paid regardless.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
Obviously
Though I really don’t think it would be a good idea to dump Rothschild.
RIP Ronnie James Dio (July 10, 1942 - May 16, 2010).
Agreed.
I wasn’t thrilled with Rothschild before, but he seems to be doing a good job now.
Shut Up Joe Morgan
by Sandberg's evil twin on Jul 20, 2010 2:23 PM CDT up reply actions
Actually Rothschild was here
before Lou.
If you think you've seen it all...just wait!
by CubFanSince1970 on Jul 20, 2010 1:58 PM CDT up reply actions
If, and I emphasize if, Giardi is interested, announcing now gives him
time to say ya or nay. He knows the job will be open now and has ample time to discuss with family and over in his mind. If he say no, then Sandberg has to be the man. He’s piad his dues throughout this organization and has a better handle of lower level talent than anyone in our system.
Intrigued by the Dawson comment above. Will have to think about that one. Maddux needs to be offered whatever he wants. His mind should not go to waste and what ever the involvement he wants should be give to him.
This is only the beginning....Lou Pinella end of '07 season and Chicago Transit Authority (the band when they were really good).
Thanks Lou
a class act for making the announcement now. Getting rid of all the moronic speculation of what’s to come and as some said GET RID OF LOU NOW.
I’m not sold on Ryne for the next manager. Frankly I don’t know who it should be but it shouldn’t just be handed to Sandberg. There is no such thing as “paying your dues” Trust me it’s a fallacy.
Ryne Sandberg was a great Cub
He has done absolutely nothing to deserve running a club that just sold for a little south of a billion dollars and has (for now) the 3rd largest payroll in the game. Giving it to Ryno because he is a swell guy and was “willing” to go through the minor league system, is a joke. For those of you who welcome his hiring, I want to know why. Is it the dim-witted look upon his face when faced with a question requiring more than a 2 word answer? Is it the fact he knows how to carry on the winning ways of this storied franchise, since he was on so many winning Cubs teams himself? Please enlighten me as to why a HOFer, who already has been passed over once for the job, should be getting a second look.
"It was a perfect situation for the Brewers," Hill said. "They had a guy up there at the plate [in Counsell] who takes a lot of pride in what he does and he practices those situations, so when it does come up, he gets the bunt down to the right side of the field. They have the perfect guy on first base [in Gomez], who is one of the fastest guys in the league, and they had one of the worst fundamental teams on the field, so it was a perfect situation for them."
...I was with you right up until...
…since he was on so many winning Cubs teams himself?
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Jul 20, 2010 2:00 PM CDT up reply actions
sarcasm
"It was a perfect situation for the Brewers," Hill said. "They had a guy up there at the plate [in Counsell] who takes a lot of pride in what he does and he practices those situations, so when it does come up, he gets the bunt down to the right side of the field. They have the perfect guy on first base [in Gomez], who is one of the fastest guys in the league, and they had one of the worst fundamental teams on the field, so it was a perfect situation for them."
by louslovechild on Jul 20, 2010 2:01 PM CDT up reply actions
Sandberg wanted to manage and was asked to get experience
He’s coached A, AA and AAA for the cubs. He’s put in his time and also won at each level. Let’s get a person that know the players into this position.
This is only the beginning....Lou Pinella end of '07 season and Chicago Transit Authority (the band when they were really good).
Forget about getting "the best guy,"
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jul 20, 2010 2:08 PM CDT up reply actions
Agree to vehemently disagree, then.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jul 20, 2010 2:12 PM CDT up reply actions
whomever we think is the best guy
is irrelevant. as outsiders, we simply are not privy to organizational influnces or pressures to go one direction or another. Factor in a new owner, and that is a heck of a wild card.
I would not go so far out to say anything under the sky is “likely” to happen.
Jack
derv
And I hope everyone on both sides of this debate
avoids the high-and-mighty, everyone’s-stupid-except-me posturing that can completely ruin a message board.
I'll go to my grave believing Armando Galarraga tossed the 21st perfect game in MLB history.
You sure haven't been restrained on that one lol
Shut Up Joe Morgan
by Sandberg's evil twin on Jul 20, 2010 2:27 PM CDT up reply actions
Damnit Al!
Don’t make me agree with NBF.
I’m with NBF on this I’m not sure Sandberg is the “best” guy.
If Joe Torre leaves LA then would say he would be the “best” guy, but Joe Torre means win now and I think that is a horrible idea.
Sandberg makes sense though and he might (and I stress might who knows) be the right guy for the job.
(This story was produced by BCPDnewservice. Our motto: If you don’t like this story then suck it!)
by BrewCrew'sPrinceofDarkness on Jul 20, 2010 2:52 PM CDT up reply actions
You must agree.....You must agree......
Shut Up Joe Morgan
by Sandberg's evil twin on Jul 20, 2010 3:06 PM CDT up reply actions
I don't get how you can vehemently disagree
disagree yes, but how the hell do you know that Sandberg isn’t the right guy. What SPECIFICALLY has he done to convince you he would suck here?
Other than he was a Cub at one time? Seriously. You just seem to have DECIDED he’s worse than Oquendo and Cora. No reason behind it, he just is. You then act like anyone who doesn’t hold that view is an idiot.
by HuskerCorner on Jul 20, 2010 3:15 PM CDT up reply actions
I should add, I'm far from sold on Sandberg
My two dream hires would be Gardenhire and Maddon and assuming they won’t leave, I would give Sandberg a shot, because I can’t honestly say anyone is a cut above.
by HuskerCorner on Jul 20, 2010 3:16 PM CDT up reply actions
You're behind the loop a little here.
NBF has said he watched Sandberg personally as manager of the minor league team…somwhere between 2 months and 2 years I think. He’s been raving about Sandberg being a bad manager prospect for awhile now.
Shut Up Joe Morgan
by Sandberg's evil twin on Jul 20, 2010 3:34 PM CDT up reply actions
I'm not going to say too much about this
but I’ve seen him from a different side of things than most people here.
Granted, this was a couple of years ago, and things might have changed, but … back then, he didn’t impress anybody who dealt with him on a daily basis.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jul 20, 2010 3:35 PM CDT up reply actions
So, when he was first starting out.....he wasn't impressive
Look, maybe you have an idea of what you are talking about, and just being vague for some odd reason, but what kind of manager he was BEFORE he actually got the experience of managing seems like an odd thing to hold against him. Even if he had been a manager for a couple of months…….there’s a learning curve
I really hate that I feel like I’m arguing vehemently FOR Sandberg, because honestly I’m not sold on him. I however am not sold on a couple of dupes who were bench coaches for other managers.
by HuskerCorner on Jul 20, 2010 3:38 PM CDT up reply actions
Sorry about saying you were raving.
Whether true or not it was unnecessary.
Shut Up Joe Morgan
by Sandberg's evil twin on Jul 20, 2010 4:24 PM CDT up reply actions
I appreciate the clarification NBF
I can understand you wanting to respect other people’s privacy and choosing not to say too much about something that’s on the QT. But just from you mentioning that you’re privy to a different side of things separates what you’ve been saying from, say, Joe Morgan’s blanket despisal of Sandberg.
I'll go to my grave believing Armando Galarraga tossed the 21st perfect game in MLB history.
Who is the best guy?
And please keep options realistic. None of this hogwash about grabbing Joe Girardi from the Yankees. If it’s not Ryne Sandberg, who is it?
RIP Ronnie James Dio (July 10, 1942 - May 16, 2010).
but
WHY? What have they done to convince you so completely that they are better?
by HuskerCorner on Jul 20, 2010 3:17 PM CDT up reply actions
Their resumes
are much more impressive.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jul 20, 2010 3:36 PM CDT up reply actions
Well HOFer should mean something.
It may not mean he’s the right person for manager, but it does mean he knows something about playing the game more than hitting. And that to me is worth a second look, yes.
Shut Up Joe Morgan
by Sandberg's evil twin on Jul 20, 2010 2:26 PM CDT up reply actions
God, this is stupid
He was passed over for the job because he had no experience. He now has four years of experience.
JOE GIRARDI HAD FAR LESS EXPERIENCE COACHING WHEN HE TOOK OVER THE MARLINS THAN RYNE SANDBERG HAS NOW.
Yet everyone wants to hire Giradi because he took a team with a $200 million payroll to the WS.
by Josh Timmers on Jul 20, 2010 2:26 PM CDT up reply actions 9 recs
Girardi
has one season as the Yankees Bench Coach before getting the Marlins job.
by Josh Timmers on Jul 20, 2010 2:31 PM CDT up reply actions
and he graduated from Northwestern and was a catcher so he's really smart.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Jul 20, 2010 2:28 PM CDT up reply actions
probably
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Jul 20, 2010 2:34 PM CDT up reply actions
I read this and thought of Homer Simpson.
“I am the smart! S-M-R-T!”
"Juuuuuuussst a bit outside. He tried for the corner and missed..."
- Harry Doyle
by Rusty in Peoria on Jul 20, 2010 2:29 PM CDT up reply actions
I agree with this to a point.
But…200 million payroll or not he does have experience at winning at the MLB level Sandberg doesn’t. Though it’s pretty irrelevant as Girardi isn’t gonna leave the Yankees for the Cubs.
Shut Up Joe Morgan
by Sandberg's evil twin on Jul 20, 2010 2:29 PM CDT up reply actions
Girardi's not leaving
But my point is that people don’t realize that Sandberg actually has MORE experience managing than most first-time managers do, especially if they were major league players.
by Josh Timmers on Jul 20, 2010 2:32 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Maybe but
Girardi has more experience managing those megamaniac egos under intense NYC media & fan pressure while Ryno managed Castro & Cashner in Iowa.
A different experience base IMHO.
Also, catchers tend to make better managers.
They know how to handle pitchers, for one thing.
by Blue Heron on Jul 20, 2010 3:11 PM CDT up reply actions
But Cora and Oquendo are the best prospects!
Sheesh you haven’t read this thread much.
Shut Up Joe Morgan
by Sandberg's evil twin on Jul 20, 2010 3:15 PM CDT up reply actions
Here's the thing, SET
You lampoon those guys, as do some other ones.
The thing I keep hearing from a lot of Cubs fans is “We don’t want another retread as manager.”
Well, neither of those guys is a retread. They’d be new faces on the managerial scene. But they’d also have a lot of experience on major-league teams, ones that have reached the very pinnacle of success.
Best of both worlds.
Please, don’t discredit these points just because I’m the one making them.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jul 20, 2010 3:38 PM CDT up reply actions
There are plenty of coaches who have been along for the ride on World Series winning teams
so why have you fixated on those two?
Also, I still don’t understand why being coaches on World Series teams somehow blows away MANAGING teams for a couple of years.
by HuskerCorner on Jul 20, 2010 3:40 PM CDT up reply actions
It's not a fixation
I once was asked who I’d look at, and those are two names I mentioned.
Girardi, a long shot, would be another.
And if you can’t understand why coaching on a World Series team outdoes managing for a couple of years, I can’t help you. Maybe ask the Bulls why they hired Tom Thibodeaux (sp?) instead of, say, John Calipari.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jul 20, 2010 3:46 PM CDT up reply actions
Now you have me wondering how Brad Mills will eventually do in Houston
I'll go to my grave believing Armando Galarraga tossed the 21st perfect game in MLB history.
Can't say
Although if you talk about dues-paying, Mills paid many, many more than Sandberg has.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jul 20, 2010 5:52 PM CDT up reply actions
I wasn't making fun of them being a manager...
Just of your logic in them being the best candidates. I haven’t made up my mind yet on who would be the best manager. I’d like to see the short list used to select him first. This is all wild speculation other than Sandberg will be on there.
Shut Up Joe Morgan
by Sandberg's evil twin on Jul 20, 2010 4:23 PM CDT up reply actions
Well, actually...
That’s not really the reason that I’m in favor of it. I appreciate his ability to handle tough media, more experience at the major-league level, and record of success under different circumstances. Well, in addition to the fact that he’s an ex-Cub as well.
I guess in short, I think he’s a better coach right now, especially for a large market club. I really don’t see how that makes me stupid.
by Damen Jackson on Jul 20, 2010 2:45 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Rec'd
"Wait, are you saying I'm a sunshine-pumping, koolaid-drinking, Soriano-loving, rainbow-rising, unicorn-riding, double-clutching, Sweet Lou-backing, Hendry-supporting, hey hey whaddya saying, Cubs are going all the waying, glass is overflowing, Rothschild is all-knowing, Cubs fan? - ballhawk
...
(This story was produced by BCPDnewservice. Our motto: If you don’t like this story then suck it!)
by BrewCrew'sPrinceofDarkness on Jul 20, 2010 2:53 PM CDT up reply actions
While we're dreaming about Girardi
How fun would it be to have Torre in the dugout? The Torre vs. LaRussa storylines would provide plenty of amusement.
Chicagoan in the Lou.
isnt he retiring if the dodgers dont extend him?
by jesus christos on Jul 20, 2010 2:01 PM CDT up reply actions
I'd say so.
There is no way Joe Torre will ever be Cubs manager. Ever. Ever. Ever.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
I wouldn't
I also wouldn’t want to manager the Cubs, but that’s just me.
RIP Ronnie James Dio (July 10, 1942 - May 16, 2010).
I don't think he will, either.
But if he does want to, I think he’s got to get the offer first, if only because his experience level trumps Sandberg’s.
Perhaps Sandberg as a bench coach under Girardi, if that happens.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
I wouldn't count on that
He loves the Cubs as much as we do!
If you think you've seen it all...just wait!
by CubFanSince1970 on Jul 20, 2010 2:16 PM CDT up reply actions
Why leave the kingdom of gold in New York for...
…the kingdom of dirt in Chicago?
RIP Ronnie James Dio (July 10, 1942 - May 16, 2010).
Absolutely will retire
Read the ESPN The Magazine on the McCourt divorce. My God is that bad. Worse than I ever imagined.
Look out bottom of the NL West for the Dodgers. I have to change my entire outlook on their future which now looks horrible, taking this article at face value.
OK, back to the regularly scheduled thread and bashing.
by San Diego Smooth Jazz Man on Jul 20, 2010 3:52 PM CDT up reply actions
Divorce McCourt
comes on every afternoon at 2pm!
I'll go to my grave believing Armando Galarraga tossed the 21st perfect game in MLB history.
LaRussa's contract is up, too.
Wouldn’t it be something if he came to Chicago? The Cardinal fans would have conniptions!
by Blue Heron on Jul 20, 2010 3:12 PM CDT up reply actions
LaRussa should be in the mix
"Wait, are you saying I'm a sunshine-pumping, koolaid-drinking, Soriano-loving, rainbow-rising, unicorn-riding, double-clutching, Sweet Lou-backing, Hendry-supporting, hey hey whaddya saying, Cubs are going all the waying, glass is overflowing, Rothschild is all-knowing, Cubs fan? - ballhawk
Just say no to Joe Torre
TOO OLD!
If you think you've seen it all...just wait!
by CubFanSince1970 on Jul 20, 2010 2:03 PM CDT reply actions
they should try this tactic...
count the visible nose and ear hairs on the next group of candidates, and if the count is over 500, they are excluded.
Jack
derv
Does this have any indication that hendry is staying?
Maybe I’m reading a bit too much into it, but this stood out to me.
It gives Jim Hendry ample time to find the next manager
Piniella doesn’t speak for Ricketts, I know, l but this is an organizational announcement. I think it points to the fact that Hendry is going to get one more shot at this.
by jerry morales rules on Jul 20, 2010 2:04 PM CDT reply actions
Regardless of anyone's personal feelings about Hendry...
… yeah, that’s likely correct — and it also likely means Sandberg gets the job.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
After many years of paying mangers
multi-million dollar contracts, Ricketts may go the cheap route with Ryno.
Just a hunch.
If you think you've seen it all...just wait!
by CubFanSince1970 on Jul 20, 2010 2:09 PM CDT up reply actions
And he'll get
what he pays for, if that’s the case.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jul 20, 2010 2:13 PM CDT up reply actions
and you think Joey Cora would command top $?
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Jul 20, 2010 2:13 PM CDT up reply actions
I think he runs rings around Ryno
in intelligence and baseball smarts.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jul 20, 2010 2:15 PM CDT up reply actions
evidence?
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Jul 20, 2010 2:15 PM CDT up reply actions
Observation
from afar for 20-plus years, from up-close for two.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jul 20, 2010 2:25 PM CDT up reply actions
well that should qualify your opinion as "expert" then....
the actual people doing the interviews and selection probably haven’t done that much homework.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Jul 20, 2010 2:27 PM CDT up reply actions
You asked and I answered
You don’t trust the Cubs to acquire a relief pitcher, so now you invest all your trust in their next managerial selection?
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jul 20, 2010 2:30 PM CDT up reply actions
I've never once, EVER said I trust the Cubs to make the right decision....
I doubt the front office’s ability to do almost anything right, which puts their competence on par with yours.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Jul 20, 2010 2:36 PM CDT up reply actions
Appointing Ryno will be a sign of upper-level incompetence
because, IMHO, it will show they value sentimentality and kissing the fans’ asses than winning baseball.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jul 20, 2010 2:42 PM CDT up reply actions
Wrong.
Sandberg has earned the job. Popularity is a bonus, not the reason.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
What has he earned?
By sticking around in the minors? What has he done as a MANAGER to earn it?
"It was a perfect situation for the Brewers," Hill said. "They had a guy up there at the plate [in Counsell] who takes a lot of pride in what he does and he practices those situations, so when it does come up, he gets the bunt down to the right side of the field. They have the perfect guy on first base [in Gomez], who is one of the fastest guys in the league, and they had one of the worst fundamental teams on the field, so it was a perfect situation for them."
by louslovechild on Jul 20, 2010 3:49 PM CDT up reply actions
Indeed, Al, what?
Aside from being a beloved former Cub.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jul 20, 2010 3:53 PM CDT up reply actions
seriously, considering the guys you want
haven’t done one iota more than Sandberg has to “earn” a managing job, you might just want to back off.
by HuskerCorner on Jul 20, 2010 3:59 PM CDT up reply actions
I don't think so
I’m asked to prove bonafides on candidates. Sandberg worshippers should be no different.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jul 20, 2010 5:02 PM CDT up reply actions
Then you should provide the bonafides, too.
You keep saying “observation,” but what have you observed?
If you care to label me a shorts-wetting meatball fan, I will refer you to my response to the last time you did so. All I am asking for is evidence in an effort to make this debate objective and keep the sentimentality you so detest out of the discussion. At the moment it appears that you don’t want Sandberg to manage because he was a popular Cub. The uniform he played in actually has nothing to do with his skills as a manager.
Please provide evidence when requested to do so, as opposed to assuming the asker is unreasonable and asking the same question back without answering it yourself. You are essentially using the “if you don’t know, then I’m not going to tell you” argument, which makes you seem unreasonable.
"Sometimes you eat the bar and sometimes..."
what about the three years he spent learning on the job?
You act as though he fell off the turnip truck and they offered him a job
by HuskerCorner on Jul 20, 2010 3:18 PM CDT up reply actions
This is not a family business
Bottom line: If his name was Ryne Smith instead of Ryne Sandberg, and if he never had played for the Cubs, a lot of you would look at his resume and put it in the wastebasket.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jul 20, 2010 3:40 PM CDT up reply actions
I'll ask this again
What about the three years he spent learning on the job.
Name or not, he’s been training for this. And the fact that he was a great player can be a factor because he KNOWS what it takes to be great.
by HuskerCorner on Jul 20, 2010 3:42 PM CDT up reply actions
Not many senior managerial positions I know in the corporate world
would hire you with three years of experience.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jul 20, 2010 3:44 PM CDT up reply actions
but....wait....you're asking that same "corportation"
to hire someone with NO managerial experience.
by HuskerCorner on Jul 20, 2010 3:51 PM CDT up reply actions
Experience with a winning organization
in quasi-managerial capacities can make up for some things.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jul 20, 2010 3:52 PM CDT up reply actions
according to you
but you have nothing to back up that statement.
by HuskerCorner on Jul 20, 2010 3:58 PM CDT up reply actions
You're not gonna get anywhere Husker.
You’re just wasting your time though I see your logic.
Shut Up Joe Morgan
by Sandberg's evil twin on Jul 20, 2010 4:16 PM CDT up reply actions
And Cora or Oquendo
IIRC, have more experience than Sandberg does in general.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jul 20, 2010 3:56 PM CDT up reply actions
He would be the first pick
But any ANY team with a manager vacancy would be fools not to look in their Minor League systems for the Manager of the future.
(This story was produced by BCPDnewservice. Our motto: If you don’t like this story then suck it!)
by BrewCrew'sPrinceofDarkness on Jul 20, 2010 3:42 PM CDT up reply actions
Did he catch in the bullpen sometimes?
Shut Up Joe Morgan
by Sandberg's evil twin on Jul 20, 2010 2:30 PM CDT up reply actions
NBF, I think I missed some of your history that would provide me some context in this debate
What up close experience with Joey Cora do you have?
I'm not sure it's worth it
Do you have an open mind?
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jul 20, 2010 5:03 PM CDT up reply actions
Yep
Two-plus years of personal observation.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jul 20, 2010 5:13 PM CDT up reply actions
Seems to me like you enjoy being judgmental.
by Blue Heron on Jul 20, 2010 5:16 PM CDT up reply actions
To coin a phrase,
look, what do you want me to do?
You asked if I had an open mind, and I told you I had observed him for two years as a minor-league manager. Then you slam me for being judgmental, because you apparently don’t like my conclusion.
Sorry to pee all over the Ryno-fest, but that’s how I see it.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jul 20, 2010 5:25 PM CDT up reply actions
I was remarking on comments you made last night.
Not what you think of Ryno. I’m not sure he’s right for the job, either.
You said I’m no Cubs fan because I said I’d like them to rebuild, and I took that personally. Considering how others react to you on here, though, perhaps that’s a waste of time. Not sure yet.
by Blue Heron on Jul 20, 2010 5:33 PM CDT up reply actions
You said you hoped they went on a long losing streak
because then they’d “rebuild.”
I can’t see how someone who says that can seriously say they’re a fan of a particular team.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jul 20, 2010 5:55 PM CDT up reply actions
Have you ever seen an NFL team pull it's starting QB and RB after they're behind by 5 touchowns in the 4th quarter?
Yeah.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Jul 20, 2010 5:58 PM CDT up reply actions
That's one of the most ludicrous comparisons
I’ve ever, ever seen. Nice work.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jul 20, 2010 6:00 PM CDT up reply actions
Thank You.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Jul 20, 2010 6:02 PM CDT up reply actions
There's gotta be a hug coming here.
Shut Up Joe Morgan
by Sandberg's evil twin on Jul 20, 2010 6:12 PM CDT up reply actions
I'm 60/40 that Hendry should go,
but I see valid reasons why he should stay.
I’m not so convinced that Sandberg is for sure the guy. It could very well be Hendry’s last managerial hire and I’m sure he knows that. Is he convinced that Sandberg is a major league quality manager? Is he convinced that he’s the best one availible in a season where there will be lots of managers that might be availible (Girardi, Torre, Cox to name a few)? Torre and Cox may retire, but as far as I’ve heard, that hasn’t been finalized. I don’t know the answers to those questions.
Time will tell, though my money is on Sandberg as well.
by jerry morales rules on Jul 20, 2010 2:15 PM CDT up reply actions
Yippee!
I need a NTC. Wonder if he could give me an extra one?
If you think you've seen it all...just wait!
by CubFanSince1970 on Jul 20, 2010 2:06 PM CDT up reply actions
this displeases me greatly
I'll go to my grave believing Armando Galarraga tossed the 21st perfect game in MLB history.
This is so Un-Cub
An early (in the season) retirement announcement. No shoving matches in elevators with the TV announcers? No firehouse chats after a long losing streak? Can I get a smashed boom box or what?
"They come to see me strike out, hit a home run, or run into a fence. I try to accommodate them at least one way every game." - Gorman Thomas
My buddy stood next to Trebelhorn at the orignal
even got his picture in the newspaper that day.
"They come to see me strike out, hit a home run, or run into a fence. I try to accommodate them at least one way every game." - Gorman Thomas
by RiskyBusiness on Jul 20, 2010 2:14 PM CDT up reply actions
That was one of more embarrassing days in Cub history
"Any player who gets the opportunity to play at Wrigley should welcome it"
Why? Nobody made Trebelhorn do it
"They come to see me strike out, hit a home run, or run into a fence. I try to accommodate them at least one way every game." - Gorman Thomas
by RiskyBusiness on Jul 20, 2010 2:21 PM CDT up reply actions
Exactly! We had a manager that was so dumb he went out and guaranteed
that “all is well” on his own. That team was terrible and that just made it worse by insulting the fans with his “go have another beer” bullshit. He was an idiot and our management hired his dumb ass. That’s why it was embarrassing.
"Any player who gets the opportunity to play at Wrigley should welcome it"
I don't get embarassed by a guy yapping at a firehouse
It might be humorous, but nothing shameful to me.
"They come to see me strike out, hit a home run, or run into a fence. I try to accommodate them at least one way every game." - Gorman Thomas
by RiskyBusiness on Jul 20, 2010 2:35 PM CDT up reply actions
Losing is embarrassing
and making an ass out of yourself while doing it makes it worse.
"Any player who gets the opportunity to play at Wrigley should welcome it"
It was 16 years ago
You can drop the outrage now. Trebelhorn had a winning record before joining the Cubs.
And losing is not embarrassing. Somebody has to lose. That’s the nature of sports.
Not giving your best effort is embarrassing.
"They come to see me strike out, hit a home run, or run into a fence. I try to accommodate them at least one way every game." - Gorman Thomas
by RiskyBusiness on Jul 20, 2010 3:09 PM CDT up reply actions
Treblehorn never managed in the majors again after that year
I’d say it was a disaster and ruined his MLB career. My opinion stands, the firehouse chat was a joke as were the ‘94 Cubs and Tom Treblehorn. ps. he’s back with his idiot buddy, McFail, in the Balt farm system.
"Any player who gets the opportunity to play at Wrigley should welcome it"
well said
"Wait, are you saying I'm a sunshine-pumping, koolaid-drinking, Soriano-loving, rainbow-rising, unicorn-riding, double-clutching, Sweet Lou-backing, Hendry-supporting, hey hey whaddya saying, Cubs are going all the waying, glass is overflowing, Rothschild is all-knowing, Cubs fan? - ballhawk
Bring back Jim Riggleman from the Nationals!!!!!!!
Wink
A-well-a Byrd, Byrd, Byrd, well the Byrd is the word.
I think we should wait until he has
burned-out Strasburg’s arm before we give him a call.
If you think you've seen it all...just wait!
by CubFanSince1970 on Jul 20, 2010 2:14 PM CDT up reply actions
this will give us lots to talk about over the long winter
my gut tells me valentine is the best available choice. he’s a proven winner on two continents…
Booby Who?
Really, if this guy was so good at managing, why hasn’t he managed in the last few years?
If you think you've seen it all...just wait!
by CubFanSince1970 on Jul 20, 2010 2:21 PM CDT up reply actions
he was in japan
and winning games with a not so hot team
by brian custer on Jul 20, 2010 2:22 PM CDT up reply actions
Not sure if the Japanese leagues match up with the Major Leagues.
Fukudome was a .400 hitter in Japan too. And we all know how that is turning out.
If you think you've seen it all...just wait!
by CubFanSince1970 on Jul 20, 2010 2:32 PM CDT up reply actions
The timing leads me to believe a new manager will be named relatively quickly
Players are going to want to know who the manager is before they consider coming to the Cubs via free agency. If Ryno is named manager, he’ll inherit a large payroll and expectations to win. Going back to Hendry’s comments last week, the Cubs won’t be looking at a major overhaul.
Get 'em on, Get 'em over, Get 'em in!
Valentine's ego is large enough to cover two continents.
I’d prefer a manager who didn’t want to win for the glorification of himself first and foremost, which Bobby has seemed to do at times during his career.
I love to play baseball. I'm a baseball player. I've always been a baseball player. I'm still a baseball player. That's who I am. - Ryne Sandberg
I actually think that is an interesting idea!
He is crazy enough to actually be able to change the culture of losing around here.
If you think you've seen it all...just wait!
by CubFanSince1970 on Jul 20, 2010 2:29 PM CDT up reply actions
True dat.
TLR has been down here with the Cub haters far too long to consider working for the Cubs though.
Shut Up Joe Morgan
by Sandberg's evil twin on Jul 20, 2010 2:46 PM CDT up reply actions
I hope this allows Lou to relax and just try to win ball games
I hope this takes a weight off his shoulders and allows him to enjoy his last season as a manager. Hell, get fired up and go out and throw a base.
Thanks for your hard work and best wishes Lou.
"They come to see me strike out, hit a home run, or run into a fence. I try to accommodate them at least one way every game." - Gorman Thomas
Brandon Backe?
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Jul 20, 2010 2:36 PM CDT up reply actions
Barry Bonds?
If you think you've seen it all...just wait!
by CubFanSince1970 on Jul 20, 2010 2:37 PM CDT up reply actions
Plus the Chicks dig the longball!
If you think you've seen it all...just wait!
by CubFanSince1970 on Jul 20, 2010 2:38 PM CDT up reply actions
I think he died a couple of years ago!
If you think you've seen it all...just wait!
by CubFanSince1970 on Jul 20, 2010 2:39 PM CDT up reply actions
Cross him off, then!
"Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have?" -Frank Chance
"If [Ruth] had [called his shot], I would have knocked him down with the next pitch." -Charlie Root
by Clutch16 on Jul 20, 2010 2:40 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
We had a Governor here that was dead that almost won in Missouri...just sayin'.
Shut Up Joe Morgan
by Sandberg's evil twin on Jul 20, 2010 2:47 PM CDT up reply actions
Didn't he actually win?
Or maybe my memory fails me…
"Juuuuuuussst a bit outside. He tried for the corner and missed..."
- Harry Doyle
by Rusty in Peoria on Jul 20, 2010 2:58 PM CDT up reply actions
Well yes he did, but his wife served the term is what I meant.
Shut Up Joe Morgan
by Sandberg's evil twin on Jul 20, 2010 3:03 PM CDT up reply actions
She was good in Die Hard!
"Any player who gets the opportunity to play at Wrigley should welcome it"
Bugs Bunny!
I'll go to my grave believing Armando Galarraga tossed the 21st perfect game in MLB history.
by EalyEagle on Jul 20, 2010 2:48 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Lee Mazzilli or Jose DeLeon
(This story was produced by BCPDnewservice. Our motto: If you don’t like this story then suck it!)
by BrewCrew'sPrinceofDarkness on Jul 20, 2010 2:57 PM CDT up reply actions
Brigitte Bardot
"They come to see me strike out, hit a home run, or run into a fence. I try to accommodate them at least one way every game." - Gorman Thomas
by RiskyBusiness on Jul 20, 2010 3:11 PM CDT up reply actions
Billie Bombs
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Jul 20, 2010 3:12 PM CDT up reply actions
Brittany Beebe?
(This story was produced by BCPDnewservice. Our motto: If you don’t like this story then suck it!)
by BrewCrew'sPrinceofDarkness on Jul 20, 2010 3:29 PM CDT up reply actions
Billy Blanks
"Dad gum right this games gonna be played under protest. . . I guarantee this is gonna be one protest that's upheld." --Hawk Harrelson, 6/24/07
I almost DON'T want Ryno to take over
Because I LIKE him and don’t wish this upon him. :)
Best of luck, Lou.
Wait a minute... who am I here?
That's true
could tarnish an otherwise sterling career as a Cub. Very few HOFers made good managers.
"Any player who gets the opportunity to play at Wrigley should welcome it"
I think this is Worf's reasoning as well
I'll go to my grave believing Armando Galarraga tossed the 21st perfect game in MLB history.
Kinda
I think his history here will make it almost impossible to get rid of him if he flops. I think this has the potential to be Yogi Berra with the Yankees.
However, if it’s a done deal, I will root for him to succeed.
There is no such thing as an ugly female breast
Gotcha (and didn't mean to speak for you)
I was just working off a previous conversation we had.
I'll go to my grave believing Armando Galarraga tossed the 21st perfect game in MLB history.
No, you got it right
But, if he’s the guy, then he’s my guy
There is no such thing as an ugly female breast
Is TJ your guy too?
Shut Up Joe Morgan
by Sandberg's evil twin on Jul 20, 2010 3:03 PM CDT up reply actions
Hallelujah!!!!
I can now return to my former position as a Cubs fan.
"I've never complained about it. I'm thankful to have a jersey." Mark DeRosa, 22 Aug 2007
Actually, I hate him more than that.
Since this is a family blog, I posted the G-rated version.
"I've never complained about it. I'm thankful to have a jersey." Mark DeRosa, 22 Aug 2007
I'm happy about the timing
Should give them a chance to interview some good candidates. I certainly don’t think Sandberg is owed anything no matter they told him. This isn’t a family business.
While we are all dreaming...Why isn't anyone considering
the Twins current skipper?
Seems to have a fairly good track record.
If you think you've seen it all...just wait!
by CubFanSince1970 on Jul 20, 2010 2:49 PM CDT reply actions
He's never won a WS.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Jul 20, 2010 2:50 PM CDT up reply actions
Neither has Ryno
If you think you've seen it all...just wait!
by CubFanSince1970 on Jul 20, 2010 2:50 PM CDT up reply actions
I personally don't give a shit who the next manager is...
we’re going to suck balls until we get better PLAYERS. BALLS.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Jul 20, 2010 2:51 PM CDT up reply actions 3 recs
Sorry, I wasn't taking a shot at you
I just forgot to put the little smiley face icon at the end of my post.
If you think you've seen it all...just wait!
by CubFanSince1970 on Jul 20, 2010 2:53 PM CDT up reply actions
Turn this merde verde
I'll go to my grave believing Armando Galarraga tossed the 21st perfect game in MLB history.
Why would Gardenhire leave?
He’s got a solid team and a consistently strong farm system. They compete for their division every year…He is not leaving Minny anytime soon.
"You've got to get your damn shirts rolled up and go out and kick somebody's ass. That's what you've got to do. Period." -- Lou Piniella
It's the whole Siren-call of Chicago
“If I can win a WS with the Cubs, it would be the biggest thing in sports history”!
That Siren call.
If you think you've seen it all...just wait!
by CubFanSince1970 on Jul 20, 2010 2:55 PM CDT up reply actions
that's just the firehouse behind Wrigley
I'll go to my grave believing Armando Galarraga tossed the 21st perfect game in MLB history.
How about...
Finding someone within an organization that actually “gets it”? How about someone within the Atlanta organization or the Minnesota organization not named MacPhail, or the Red Sox organization. Omitting names, someone outside the Cub fraternity that would actually understand the difference between the “working hard” philosophy the current regime believes exists and “playing the right way” which is currently absent on a regular basis in Wrigley these days.
"When the day comes with that last winning run and I'm crying and covered in beer. I'll look to the sky and know I was right to think someday we'll go all the way." - Vedder
Good idea.
Of course, someone from a team that does things right could get contaminated by coming to the Cubs.
by Blue Heron on Jul 20, 2010 3:22 PM CDT up reply actions
Stop the hero
worship. My gut keeps telling me that most everyone who wants Sandberg want him becauase he is a Cub Icon. I find it hard to believe that the people pulling for him no much of anything about his managerial career in the minors.
I love Sandberg….but I could not possible form an opinion on his ability to lead a major league baseball team cause I have never seen him manage.
Would it be possible for someone to craft an unbias article that compares all of the possible candiates (at least that ones we know of today).
"All I want is food and creative love" - Rusted Root
by TheRiot Police on Jul 20, 2010 2:50 PM CDT reply actions 1 recs
I could not agree more...
…very well said. He starts at zero like all of the rest of the candidates.
Jack
derv
Would it be possible for someone to craft an unbias article that compares all of the possible candiates (at least that ones we know of today).
I’m for Sandberg getting the job, but I can do this — just not today. No time, plus this is something that would take a little perspective after the retirement announcement to do. Maybe on the off day, or maybe next week.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
Maybe it would be better if someone outside Cubs-land
did the article.
Nothing against you, Al, and it is your site, so you can do whatever you want. But I shouldn’t write such an article, either.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jul 20, 2010 3:42 PM CDT up reply actions
How is it that Al doesn't ban you?
Really. I’m asking. You are offensive, combative, and you openly question Al at every turn.
You are Blue Lou with the same methods but a different Schick.
(This story was produced by BCPDnewservice. Our motto: If you don’t like this story then suck it!)
by BrewCrew'sPrinceofDarkness on Jul 20, 2010 3:45 PM CDT up reply actions
Ask Al that question
I’ve wondered why you haven’t been banned, for that matter.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jul 20, 2010 3:51 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
We should be banned for questioning what Al says?
Who gives a rat’s ass what he says? He allows us to be on this blog? No. I have been on this blog for 3 years. I should be running this thing by now.
"It was a perfect situation for the Brewers," Hill said. "They had a guy up there at the plate [in Counsell] who takes a lot of pride in what he does and he practices those situations, so when it does come up, he gets the bunt down to the right side of the field. They have the perfect guy on first base [in Gomez], who is one of the fastest guys in the league, and they had one of the worst fundamental teams on the field, so it was a perfect situation for them."
by louslovechild on Jul 20, 2010 3:52 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Wait, you don't think Al allows you to be on this blog?
I don’t like people being banned, but I’m fairly certain that since this IS his blog, he IS allowing you to be on it.
by HuskerCorner on Jul 20, 2010 4:10 PM CDT up reply actions
I'm not sure you understand how the internet works.
٩(͡๏̯͡๏)۶ Dum spiro spero... | Twitter: @andrewjstone.
by AndrewJStone on Jul 20, 2010 4:24 PM CDT up reply actions
I don't think you understand how SBN works.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Jul 20, 2010 4:25 PM CDT up reply actions
BLou... er... Blue Mike... er... whoever he is anymore would like a word
٩(͡๏̯͡๏)۶ Dum spiro spero... | Twitter: @andrewjstone.
by AndrewJStone on Jul 20, 2010 4:33 PM CDT up reply actions
True dat Husker.
I’d add there sure isn’t any law preventing him from starting up his own Cubs or anything else blog where he would be running it and wouldn’t have to worry about what Al says. If" he should be running this by now" is true, I’m sure he will have plenty of followers.
Shut Up Joe Morgan
by Sandberg's evil twin on Jul 20, 2010 4:29 PM CDT up reply actions
At most,
a good manager is worth about extra 5 wins over the course of a season. Now 5 wins ain’t peanuts, but this team has problems that won’t be magically solved by Ryno, Girardi, Brenley, Trammell, Miller Huggins, Moonlight Graham or whoever takes over next year.
It's "nice" to see that a certain person
is still allowed to be as divisive and as much of an asshole as ever.
Also, goodbye Lou, I wish you would have left after last year, but better late than never.
www.facebook.com/craighudak
by Craig in South Bend on Jul 20, 2010 2:59 PM CDT reply actions
Totally :)
www.facebook.com/craighudak
by Craig in South Bend on Jul 20, 2010 3:07 PM CDT up reply actions
I don't know if Sandberg is the best choice
Honestly. And he was my favorite player for years. But I think one thing in his favor is that he apparently won’t come in as the Hall of Famer who knows everything, a la Frank Robinson. He has shown humility in managing in the minors, and actually enjoying his time there. The A’s hired Macha not because he was the expert in statistical analysis, but because he was willing to listen to the front office’s recommendations (even instructions) on when to play certain players, etc. I’d be more concerned that the Cubs get a bench coach who can interpret the stats given him by Chuck Wasserstrom and the new hire. Then, whoever is the manager, make sure he will listen to the bench coach.
I’ll agree with those who’ve said that you don’t know how a manager will handle certain situations until you see him manage in the major leagues. It makes it tough to hire the right guy. With that in mind, I’d root for Sandberg as a manager, but I won’t complain if the Cubs go elsewhere for someone with more experience.
Somebody take Aramis' bat off the restricted list, please.
by cubzfan on Jul 20, 2010 3:00 PM CDT reply actions 1 recs
Might Sandberg be promoted to Director of Minor League Instruction instead?
During the Dallas Green era, a guy named Jim Snyder held this position, and it was his job to make sure all the players in the system mastered the fundamentals of the game. He also worked to instill discipline and a committed work ethic. According to guys like Grace and Maddux and Jamie Moyer, Snyder and the other minor league instructors made a world of difference.
Seems like Ryno would be good in this kind of position with the organization if he doesn’t get the manager’s job next year. And maybe it’s a better niche for him to fill?
I'll go to my grave believing Armando Galarraga tossed the 21st perfect game in MLB history.
I can't see him taking a front office job...
… after training to be a field manager.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
What has he done to deserve a job at all?
He was a HOFer, a seemingly swell guy, but what has he done?
"It was a perfect situation for the Brewers," Hill said. "They had a guy up there at the plate [in Counsell] who takes a lot of pride in what he does and he practices those situations, so when it does come up, he gets the bunt down to the right side of the field. They have the perfect guy on first base [in Gomez], who is one of the fastest guys in the league, and they had one of the worst fundamental teams on the field, so it was a perfect situation for them."
by louslovechild on Jul 20, 2010 3:20 PM CDT up reply actions
Lou, we'll always remember you
as the player who got thrown out at every base in a game. Godspeed.
There is no such thing as an ugly female breast
Godspeed? he's retiring from being a manager, not dying.
Shut Up Joe Morgan
by Sandberg's evil twin on Jul 20, 2010 3:04 PM CDT up reply actions
Godspeed does not mean
he is dying… Godspeed means succesful journey.
"All I want is food and creative love" - Rusted Root
by TheRiot Police on Jul 20, 2010 3:07 PM CDT up reply actions
It's frequently used with a journey into the afterlife.
And I’d hardly call Lou leaving on a plane retiring as a journey. Just my .02
Shut Up Joe Morgan
by Sandberg's evil twin on Jul 20, 2010 3:19 PM CDT up reply actions
It is
also frequently used in the Military and NASA…
"All I want is food and creative love" - Rusted Root
by TheRiot Police on Jul 20, 2010 3:20 PM CDT up reply actions
you wouldn't call getting on a plane taking a journey?
Semantics aside, Godspeed simply isn’t something you only say to someone who is dying. Might be best just to drop it at this point
by HuskerCorner on Jul 20, 2010 3:22 PM CDT up reply actions
Then why didn't you?
Shut Up Joe Morgan
by Sandberg's evil twin on Jul 20, 2010 3:23 PM CDT up reply actions
That's got to be a BIG one to handle a dinosaur...
Does it taste like your ass?
Shut Up Joe Morgan
by Sandberg's evil twin on Jul 20, 2010 3:36 PM CDT up reply actions
I retract Godspeed. I retract Barney. I retract my poop.
Just stop with the insane conversation
There is no such thing as an ugly female breast
by Worf on Jul 20, 2010 3:37 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Fair enough. But it's still BCB.
Shut Up Joe Morgan
by Sandberg's evil twin on Jul 20, 2010 3:38 PM CDT up reply actions
It brings you out to provide us with your thoughtful insights
my friend.
Now sing that song we all love:
I LOVE YOU
YOU LOVE ME
SHUT UP AND $&#$&%^#&#*$( MY *#&%$&#!
(This story was produced by BCPDnewservice. Our motto: If you don’t like this story then suck it!)
by BrewCrew'sPrinceofDarkness on Jul 20, 2010 3:39 PM CDT up reply actions
By who is the question.
(This story was produced by BCPDnewservice. Our motto: If you don’t like this story then suck it!)
by BrewCrew'sPrinceofDarkness on Jul 20, 2010 3:40 PM CDT up reply actions
SWL had free ones up earlier in the thread.
Should ask him. I think its Cub managers winning a WS.
Shut Up Joe Morgan
by Sandberg's evil twin on Jul 20, 2010 3:42 PM CDT up reply actions
I'd buy that album.
Shut Up Joe Morgan
by Sandberg's evil twin on Jul 20, 2010 3:47 PM CDT up reply actions
Include in that Shut the hell up, Z!
Shut Up Joe Morgan
by Sandberg's evil twin on Jul 20, 2010 4:32 PM CDT up reply actions
But your vibe is telling people to shut up.
(This story was produced by BCPDnewservice. Our motto: If you don’t like this story then suck it!)
by BrewCrew'sPrinceofDarkness on Jul 20, 2010 3:36 PM CDT up reply actions
Some people use it in place of "good luck."
by Blue Heron on Jul 20, 2010 3:24 PM CDT up reply actions
This Team Is Not Ready For Ryno
It is time for the Cubs to shed big contracts, older players, and go young. That means the team will not be very competitive for a couple years. Ryno’s hero status would be trashed by managing the team now. And he might well be gone before the team would be positioned to win again.
I know it does not look good guys....it always looks bad right before it gets worse. (Yogi Berra)
Adios Lou--don't let the door hit you on the way out!
It is a FACT that Lou has accepted mediocrity (as did Dusty). How long did it take him to move Fonzi out of the lead-off spot in 2009? How often do our guys make bone-headed running gaffs and Lou just leaves the guy in the game. Lou and Dusty have a few things in common: their teams looked less and less prepared and fielding errors increased with each year they managed.
I want Sandberg as manager because he is doing the things that good managers do. He does not accept mental errors. He has a great deal of respect for the game and he wants to make sure that the 25 guys on his roster have that same respect for the game. Come prepared and be sharp.
My desire to have Sandberg (or even Brenly, with Sandberg as his bench coach) manage is because he got the most out of his less than intimidating stature and he brings that same mentality to his players. I am tired of these veteran managers where the quality of play declines with every year they sit on the bench. Ryno will have credibility with players young and old because he took his talent and less than intimidating stature to the HOF.
Ryno will have no problems with the “Cub curse” because he has lived it for so long.
Let’s move forward with a guy who can build a real legacy of Cub winning: Ryno!!
Carlos Silva lemonade: made from freshly squeezed Milton Bradley lemons. -- the Jim Hendry kook book.
There's no way anyone is going to taste your ass now.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Jul 20, 2010 3:09 PM CDT up reply actions
Obviously you don't surf the web much.
At least that’s what I’ve “heard”.
Shut Up Joe Morgan
by Sandberg's evil twin on Jul 20, 2010 3:20 PM CDT up reply actions
at least your poop can be used as manure.
otherwise there has been nothing worthwhile out of you in this whole thread
Carlos Silva lemonade: made from freshly squeezed Milton Bradley lemons. -- the Jim Hendry kook book.
There's a lot of wrong things here but I'll just focus on the errors thing
Lou and Dusty have a few things in common: their teams looked less and less prepared and fielding errors increased with each year they managed.
Cubs fielding percentage by year:
2009: .983
2008: .983
2007: .984
2006. .982
2005: .983
2004: .986
2003: .983
Given that there’s 6000+ chances in a season, a change of 1 or 2 points is pretty insignificant. The total errors may have gone up during both Dusty and Lou’s stints, but so did the total chances – by almost the same percentage.
Blaming Dusty for the increased total errors is pretty ignorant anyway: if you want to blame anyone, blame Kerry Wood and Mark Prior. The number of strikeouts per season decreased every year of Dusty’s reign as his best pitchers’ health declined. Fewer K’s means more balls in play, which means more errors.
thanks for calling me ignorant.
that adds a lot to the conversation.
let’s stay classy.
BTW, a lot of the errors and “increased mistakes” are mental errors and things that don’t necessarily get an E attached to them (running blunders, or Moises Alou never understanding the rules about a lost ball in the ivy, etc…). Watching virtually every game each year, I feel safe with my view that each year, the teams under Dusty and Lou were “less inspired” in their play.
Carlos Silva lemonade: made from freshly squeezed Milton Bradley lemons. -- the Jim Hendry kook book.
When proven wrong by the stats....
Always revert to the “eye” test or the “mental” errors test. Nice try.
No.
I am making the point that uninspired play is not just a matter of “% of Es”
as you stated, % of Es rarely moves—but are you telling me you don’t see a change int he quality of play from year to year? Don’t be a slave to stats. Or better yet, read what I said. I not only referred to “fielding errors,” but also mentioned "being prepared and “the quality of play.”
You only gave me a stat for one of those items (fielding) and assumed it was a proxy for the others.
You are wrong. Now go away.
Carlos Silva lemonade: made from freshly squeezed Milton Bradley lemons. -- the Jim Hendry kook book.
thanks for calling me ignorant.
I didn’t call you ignorant. I called your claim that Dusty was to blame for an increase in errors ignorant, which it is. It ignores the facts of the situation (fielding percentage was static; total errors increased due to an increase in total chances, not worse fielding).
I feel safe with my view that each year, the teams under Dusty and Lou were "less inspired" in their play.
Hand waving. You claimed:
fielding errors increased with each year they managed.
As I stated in my post, I’m ignoring all of the other wrong things and just focusing on that statement, which was provably (and proven) false. You can try and deflect all you want but you’re flat out wrong about that claim.
And you know all of this from your long-time study of Sandberg as a major league (or even minor league manager)?
So, you liked the way he played as a ballplayer. Got it.
Wow
You get to give the keynote speech at his nominating convention.
"Wait, are you saying I'm a sunshine-pumping, koolaid-drinking, Soriano-loving, rainbow-rising, unicorn-riding, double-clutching, Sweet Lou-backing, Hendry-supporting, hey hey whaddya saying, Cubs are going all the waying, glass is overflowing, Rothschild is all-knowing, Cubs fan? - ballhawk
Is he still involved in baseball operations?
I thought I heard he had stopped being a part of them
by HuskerCorner on Jul 20, 2010 3:20 PM CDT up reply actions
Here's my idea
Make Alan Trammel the next manager, with a one- or two-year contract. Make Sandberg his bench coach. After Trammel’s contract is up, make Sandberg the manager.
by Blue Heron on Jul 20, 2010 3:15 PM CDT reply actions
Think Trammel would have something to say
about having only a 1 or 2-yr deal?
Just win the next game...!
Yeah, he say "screw you!"
"Any player who gets the opportunity to play at Wrigley should welcome it"
Are you kidding?
He would say how fast do I sign. Who else is going to offer him a managers job?
"Lou Piniella's been a great manager for a long time and I stand by him completely"
by Doggie Stalker on Jul 20, 2010 3:58 PM CDT up reply actions
Why?
What has Sanderg done to deserve that job? Trammel should pick the guy he wants. I don’t want or like Trammel as the next manager, but if he is, why Sandberg?
"It was a perfect situation for the Brewers," Hill said. "They had a guy up there at the plate [in Counsell] who takes a lot of pride in what he does and he practices those situations, so when it does come up, he gets the bunt down to the right side of the field. They have the perfect guy on first base [in Gomez], who is one of the fastest guys in the league, and they had one of the worst fundamental teams on the field, so it was a perfect situation for them."
by louslovechild on Jul 20, 2010 3:18 PM CDT up reply actions
Here's my idea...
raise ticket prices and concessions by 7% across the board and get Pujols AND TLR.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Jul 20, 2010 3:20 PM CDT up reply actions
But Miles would probably follow.
Shut Up Joe Morgan
by Sandberg's evil twin on Jul 20, 2010 3:22 PM CDT up reply actions
d'oh!
deal breaker!
"Wait, are you saying I'm a sunshine-pumping, koolaid-drinking, Soriano-loving, rainbow-rising, unicorn-riding, double-clutching, Sweet Lou-backing, Hendry-supporting, hey hey whaddya saying, Cubs are going all the waying, glass is overflowing, Rothschild is all-knowing, Cubs fan? - ballhawk
...
If the Cubs still have a chance, no matter how small, it’s still Go Cubs, damn the math and pass the KoolAid.
That is Lou to me
"Lou Piniella's been a great manager for a long time and I stand by him completely"
by Doggie Stalker on Jul 20, 2010 3:59 PM CDT up reply actions
How many drinks of rejoicing so far today, Jess? ;-)
I'll go to my grave believing Armando Galarraga tossed the 21st perfect game in MLB history.
David Kaplan writes:
“Yes, it is true that I am retiring. I am 67 years old and it is time for me to move on to the next phase of my life and to spend more time with my family. However, I am very upset that the news leaked out before I had a chance to inform my team,” Piniella told me
http://www.chicagonow.com/blogs/david-kaplan-chicago-sports/
If the Cubs still have a chance, no matter how small, it’s still Go Cubs, damn the math and pass the KoolAid.
It's fitting that even in retiring Lou was behind the curve.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Jul 20, 2010 3:24 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
and botched it.
You could say he didn’t “manage” this retirement very well
by HuskerCorner on Jul 20, 2010 3:25 PM CDT up reply actions
I'm sure glad he is going to retire and the lame swipes at him have an ending date.
And please…no I don’t want him to keep managing.
Shut Up Joe Morgan
by Sandberg's evil twin on Jul 20, 2010 3:30 PM CDT up reply actions
The similarities between the Lou and Dusty eras are startling.
I’ve been saying this for months, but I think the nuclei of both eras never got past the heartbreak from their first bad playoff runs. They led to disappointing finishes in year two, bad personnel decisions and a decline in year three and disasters in year four.
The next nucleus either needs to come together more slowly (I know, that’s a weird thing to say) or it needs to put it all together almost immediately and win it all.
You mean this is similar to 2006?
What a novel idea!!
There is no such thing as an ugly female breast
So, basically the team needs to be put together fast or slow?
This thread needs to end
There is no such thing as an ugly female breast
You're not exactly getting my point.
I’m saying that the next nucleus either needs to win it all in year one, or it needs to not have a gut-wrenching playoff experience that amps up the pressure for the next few seasons.
Let's keep posting so it ends!
Shut Up Joe Morgan
by Sandberg's evil twin on Jul 20, 2010 3:45 PM CDT up reply actions
I did last time!
Shut Up Joe Morgan
by Sandberg's evil twin on Jul 20, 2010 3:50 PM CDT up reply actions
On 3 or just after you say it?
Shut Up Joe Morgan
by Sandberg's evil twin on Jul 20, 2010 4:33 PM CDT up reply actions
I KNEW YOU WOULDN'T DO IT!
٩(͡๏̯͡๏)۶ Dum spiro spero... | Twitter: @andrewjstone.
by AndrewJStone on Jul 20, 2010 4:34 PM CDT up reply actions
the largest similarity between the two eras is the General Manager
he needs to be handed his walking papers BEFORE the next manager is hired
by HuskerCorner on Jul 20, 2010 3:46 PM CDT up reply actions
Sad thing is ...
we’ve had worse GMs than Hendry. I’d still take him over Larry Himes.
Maybe we have, maybe we haven't
Hendry was in the very rare situation of having an awful lot of money to spend. Who knows how poorly Hendry would have done with the kind of financial restraints Himes had.
by HuskerCorner on Jul 20, 2010 4:05 PM CDT up reply actions
Ya know, I never understand when people use that as an argument for "dissing" Hendry.
Sure we probably have had worse GMs. Still is no reason to keep him messing up. Not saying you are using that argument, it just bugs me.
Shut Up Joe Morgan
by Sandberg's evil twin on Jul 20, 2010 4:08 PM CDT up reply actions
I agree
I just hope Hendry gets fired and the Cubs can replace him with someone good. Saying that he’s done better than Larry Himes is hardly a defense.
Yes!
That’s exactly what I was thinking when you said that.
Shut Up Joe Morgan
by Sandberg's evil twin on Jul 20, 2010 5:53 PM CDT up reply actions
Jose Oquendo has to be getting tired of waiting for TLR to leave
And having Oquendo on the northside and Ozzie on south would be fun.
Chicagoan in the Lou.
...
٩(͡๏̯͡๏)۶ Dum spiro spero... | Twitter: @andrewjstone.
by AndrewJStone on Jul 20, 2010 4:31 PM CDT up reply actions
Am I the only fan who really thing you can pick a manager from the outside?
And I believe Ryne Sandberg should be the Cubs’ next manager.
Why? The vast majority of what a manager does is completely out of sight. As a fan, I have no way of evaluating a potential manager.
It seems like the sole guiding principle of fans who want a particular manager is sentimentality. Sandberg, like Giardi before him, is a likable figure from Cubs history and nothing more. I just don’t see how that alone better qualifies him as the manager than, say, Bobby Valentine or Freddi Gonzalez.
by Wreckard on Jul 20, 2010 3:48 PM CDT reply actions 2 recs
You obviously haven't read the thread.
or you wouldn’t ask this question.
Shut Up Joe Morgan
by Sandberg's evil twin on Jul 20, 2010 3:49 PM CDT up reply actions
Bingo, Wreckard
That’s most of what this is about.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jul 20, 2010 3:50 PM CDT up reply actions
Oh man...I feel a group hug coming on!
Shut Up Joe Morgan
by Sandberg's evil twin on Jul 20, 2010 4:10 PM CDT up reply actions
lets start a discussion about this point
by jesus christos on Jul 20, 2010 3:50 PM CDT up reply actions
I'm mowing the grass...near the fence.
And laughing at the thought of this thread going twice the size on the same topic.
Shut Up Joe Morgan
by Sandberg's evil twin on Jul 20, 2010 3:56 PM CDT up reply actions
Wow, I really butchered that subject line
Am I the only fan who reallythingthinks youcancan’t pick a manager from the outside?
Thanks for nothing
He should have been at the end of last season and certainly by June. It was clear he was not coming back but we got 4 more months of " What do you want me to do" Theriot batting leadoff, Colvin wasting most of the first two months ,a guy who rarely remembered a players name, who never seemed to know what a players actual stats were but always wanted righties to face lefties regardless of the circumstances and of course I could go on. I have wanted Lou gone since April 2008,
I have no strong opinion of Sandberg, but I have not heard a better idea. I just want the next manager to be able to know about things like OBP, value things like speed & defense, not coddle vets and actually show some emotion when needed.
"Lou Piniella's been a great manager for a long time and I stand by him completely"
by Doggie Stalker on Jul 20, 2010 3:57 PM CDT reply actions 2 recs
Are Cora and Oquendo the guys to do that?
Shut Up Joe Morgan
by Sandberg's evil twin on Jul 20, 2010 3:58 PM CDT up reply actions
Maybe
Probably worth a look.
"Lou Piniella's been a great manager for a long time and I stand by him completely"
by Doggie Stalker on Jul 20, 2010 4:00 PM CDT up reply actions
Ah...but are they better than Sandberg?
Shut Up Joe Morgan
by Sandberg's evil twin on Jul 20, 2010 4:02 PM CDT up reply actions
My sources say yes.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Jul 20, 2010 4:03 PM CDT up reply actions
Are your sources all inside NBF's head?
by HuskerCorner on Jul 20, 2010 4:03 PM CDT up reply actions
It's the stinky thing.
Shut Up Joe Morgan
by Sandberg's evil twin on Jul 20, 2010 4:04 PM CDT up reply actions
NBF's Ideas come for the other end of the body.
(This story was produced by BCPDnewservice. Our motto: If you don’t like this story then suck it!)
by BrewCrew'sPrinceofDarkness on Jul 20, 2010 4:08 PM CDT up reply actions
Is this your source?
(This story was produced by BCPDnewservice. Our motto: If you don’t like this story then suck it!)
by BrewCrew'sPrinceofDarkness on Jul 20, 2010 4:08 PM CDT up reply actions
Nobody's better than "Our Ryno"
That’s already been established.
If anybody besides Sandberg gets the job, I expect torch-bearing throngs to storm the Wrigley gates.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jul 20, 2010 5:08 PM CDT up reply actions
I am not necessarily in favor of the guy
But your opposition is just as irrational. He is a gamble. There is no doubt about that. But, I think Jose Oquendo and Joey Cora are also gambles. I can’t blame fans for wanting to take a gamble on one of their heroes.
I can blame them
if there are better options available.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jul 20, 2010 5:13 PM CDT up reply actions
In your opinion
I don’t see anything concrete that tells me that those other guys are sure-fire better choices.
Fair enough
There are other names out there, too.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jul 20, 2010 5:59 PM CDT up reply actions
It's all conjecture and opinion
If we are going to take someone that has never been an MLB manager before, it’s all conjecture and opinion as to who is better. You have made your feelings clear. You think Oquendo or Cora would be superior choices. Others want to give Sandberg a chance. I don’t think at this point either opinion is more correct than the other. I think managers are way overrated anyways, and of all the names I have heard I like Davey Martinez the best.
Maybe
Don’t know anything about him.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jul 20, 2010 11:07 PM CDT up reply actions
That, my friend, was everything I've been thinking
in a nutshell. Well done, and rec’d
by HuskerCorner on Jul 20, 2010 4:01 PM CDT up reply actions
After a year you aren't going to like the next manager any better
Sorry, Sammy Fuld isn’t going to be on the team and Soto isn’t going to be leading off. Veterans will be allowed to play through their slumps and marginal left-handed hitters will take a seat against lefty pitchers.
But Colvin & Castro
will play from the start and no Colvin won’t be benched against left handers. Soto will get more
at bats and younger pitchers may get a chance at times besides blow outs. We will NOT start the season “rotating” 5 outfielders nor will pick up a veteran pitcher with an ERA over 6 for the bullpen. Theriot will NOT leadoff and our manager will NOT say “what do you want me to do ?” after each game.
Trust me I will like our next manager MUCH better.
"Lou Piniella's been a great manager for a long time and I stand by him completely"
by Doggie Stalker on Jul 20, 2010 4:38 PM CDT up reply actions
We shall see
I have a strong feeling you will find plenty to complain about. And half of the complaints you have in here are just plain dumb.
(1) Castro has played everyday since he came up. It was smart not to start him in the majors this spring, and many observers thought they rushed him as is.
(2) Howry has actually pitched well since we picked him up and has that turned out to be a good move.
(3) If it wasn’t for the 5-man rotation in the outfield your precious Tyler Colvin would have started the season in the minor leagues.
(4) Complaining about Lou’s press conferences is so dumb. Who gives a crap.
Not exactly
1. I meant I wanted a manager who trusted young players. Castro was a bad example because Lou had no choice on that. Colin however was example # 1
2. Howry has not pitched that well, he was used basically in clean up and allowed half of his inherited runners to score. He has been of no value save his alleged “clubhouse” presence".
3. Colvin would have played MORE without Lou trying to rotate 5 players for 3 spots. As I argued sine the first week of April Fuld , who is an actual BENCH player should have been on the roster over Nady , and let’s not forget Lou’s repeated broken promise to play Colvin until like Castro he had no choice.
4. it is not about a “press conference” it is about your leader continually saying HE HAS NO IDEA WHAT TO DO. If you don’t understand how bad & demoralizing that is , than there is nothing I can do. I honesty can’t think of another manager who would be so placid about his teams wretched performance.
"Lou Piniella's been a great manager for a long time and I stand by him completely"
by Doggie Stalker on Jul 20, 2010 5:21 PM CDT up reply actions
That explains Ramirez failure this year
I am not going to get into debunking your other thoughts because it’s not worth my time. But I can guarantee you that Lou’s LWDYWMTD had nothing to do with Aramis and Lee’s failures or the bullpen being bad or any of the other things that went wrong this season. Period.
You mean continuing to use a player swinging at pitches 10 feet outside
until he FINALLY admits to an injury instead of telling him he is not playing well and needs to rest & find out what is wrong. Oh it worked so well last year with Soriano when everyone except Lou and Hendry knew something was physically wrong with him. Ramirez did not suddenly turn it around, he went on the DL did a little rehab stint and is now his old self on speed. Would have made a difference if that had happened say in June instead of just letting him bat cleanup. By no means is that all on Lou, but he is the one who chose to let him play every day and nearly always at clean up.
"Lou Piniella's been a great manager for a long time and I stand by him completely"
by Doggie Stalker on Jul 21, 2010 1:06 AM CDT up reply actions
I'm with JSB about the press conferences. But I would also say that
I’m pretty sure Stalker said a number of times she would rather have Colvin in the minors rather than being played so little before. And I’d further add lol…that the truth about Howry is somewhere in the middle. He’s had some good outings, an number of bad ones, is paid almost nothing so not worth worrying about.
Ah and Castro was not Lou’s choice. I thought before and continue to think he was brought up too early, is obviously very talented, and Lou had nothing to do with him being here or deciding to play him.
Shut Up Joe Morgan
by Sandberg's evil twin on Jul 20, 2010 5:59 PM CDT up reply actions
Um I NEVER EVER SAID THAT
Many people including Al did. From the start of the season that he needed to play MORE and Lou kept promising and not doing it. What I DID say also from the start was that Nady was not 100% and should NOT have been on the roster out of spring training and that Fuld should have been on the bench. Feel free to check because I posted this about Colvin, Fuld & Nady about 1000 times.
I was a bit concerned about Castro but happy when he came up and he has done just fine.
As for Ramirez I posted again and again ( as I had last year re Soriano) that something was clearly WRONG with him and he needed to go on the DL.
If you two are fine with a manager who constantly says " what do you want me to do" and then proceeds to get a batting order that is almost the inverse of players OBP for months be my guest.
"Lou Piniella's been a great manager for a long time and I stand by him completely"
by Doggie Stalker on Jul 20, 2010 11:02 PM CDT up reply actions
I don't give a hoot about the first
The second is troubling. My main point is that given some of your complaints (platoons etc.) I bet that you will have a problem with whoever we bring in.
ok, I believe you that you never said that about Colvin.
As for Ramirez, I didn’t say anything about him.
I have not been saying Lou has managed well this season and you know that. I would say that you criticize every decision he makes so much that no one would have stood your scrutiny or sarcasm. Lou has not seemed to pay attention to players failing repeatedly until far too late, but changes in the batting order are not the reason the team has failed this year. The team simply isn’t good.
Shut Up Joe Morgan
by Sandberg's evil twin on Jul 21, 2010 3:02 AM CDT up reply actions
Sorry to confuse you re Ramirez
I was responding to you and JSB in the same post.
I think a lot of people here know the story but briefly I have believed Lou was a bad manager since a game in April of 08 that started me looking more closely and how he managed and even though they won 97 games that year, I still thought he was a bad manager.
"Lou Piniella's been a great manager for a long time and I stand by him completely"
by Doggie Stalker on Jul 21, 2010 10:14 AM CDT up reply actions
Wow
You are making a lot of assumptions. I think that there is a high probability that you will not like the new manager any better, even if it is Ryno.
"Wait, are you saying I'm a sunshine-pumping, koolaid-drinking, Soriano-loving, rainbow-rising, unicorn-riding, double-clutching, Sweet Lou-backing, Hendry-supporting, hey hey whaddya saying, Cubs are going all the waying, glass is overflowing, Rothschild is all-knowing, Cubs fan? - ballhawk
For the record I usually give a lot of leeway to managers.
I was just about the last person who wanted to see Dusty gone, but Lou has been my least favorite manager for over two years because unlike the majority I think he DID have decent players to work with and screwed it up.
"Lou Piniella's been a great manager for a long time and I stand by him completely"
by Doggie Stalker on Jul 20, 2010 11:04 PM CDT up reply actions
Which year did he have decent players but screwed up?
2007: overachieving team
2008: overachieving team (in regular season)
2009: considering injuries and poor performance from Sori, overachieving team
2010: bad players, bad management, just bad
I don't think 07 & 08 teams where overachieving
They had good players who fell apart in the post season . The 09 injuries were not half as bad as the 06 injuries for which Dusty was cut no slack and Lou let Soriano play till he finally admitted he was injured in Sept and usually at leadoff.
This year the worst possible management of the roster which was flawed but nowhere near as bad as it played and again Lou continued to coddle vets and just not even seem to care about the games.. We could rehash this endlessly but bottom line is that I have loathed Lou as a manager for well over two years, and while Dusty drove me nuts at times I did not want him gone to the final months so I assure I do not hate all managers nor am I likely to hate the next one.
"Lou Piniella's been a great manager for a long time and I stand by him completely"
by Doggie Stalker on Jul 21, 2010 1:01 AM CDT up reply actions
Coddling the vets is such a canard
You like playing unproven young players because you haven’t seem them fail. You obviously have something personal against Lou, so you might like the next guy more, but I suspect that you will quickly over-critique their moves as well.
I am on record saying that managers have way less impact that most think they do, but by any accounts the 2007 and 2008 teams overachieved during the regular season. 2009 you may have an argument, but considering the circumstances at the least that’s a push.
I'll sure have to trust you on that one.
It’s sure been easy to see you dislike Lou…your expectations of him this year have been out there.
Shut Up Joe Morgan
by Sandberg's evil twin on Jul 21, 2010 3:06 AM CDT up reply actions
I would think the replacement would be made prior to Winter Meetings?
Ron Santo - 8,143 ABs, .277 BA; 342 HR; 1331 RBI = NO Hall of Fame?
Brooks Robinson - 10,654 ABs, .267 BA; 268 HR; 1357 RBI = Hall of Fame.
Any more questions ?
It will be done in time so that the next new shiny manager can wow everyone @ the Cubs Convention.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Jul 20, 2010 4:02 PM CDT up reply actions
so the new manager is Olivia Wilde?
Thirteen will fill the seats.
Carlos Silva lemonade: made from freshly squeezed Milton Bradley lemons. -- the Jim Hendry kook book.
I'd be there
"They say the glee team has lured straggler into sniper traps with cheery renditions of hit songs." "Really? And people fall for that?"
that's my point.
the stands won’t empty out when the rain starts to fall. ;-)
Carlos Silva lemonade: made from freshly squeezed Milton Bradley lemons. -- the Jim Hendry kook book.
O.O nope they would just fill up.
Shut Up Joe Morgan
by Sandberg's evil twin on Jul 20, 2010 6:02 PM CDT up reply actions
a new manager should be in place as soon as a suitable replacement can be found.
If that’s not till the offseason, ok. If that’s next week, make it so.
---AC 00 00 00 - Believe
That's not exactly going out on a limb.
Shut Up Joe Morgan
by Sandberg's evil twin on Jul 20, 2010 4:05 PM CDT up reply actions
Hendry's stayin!! Oh no!!!
The man who put us in this situation, gets the chance to get us out of it. We’ll see………
"Any player who gets the opportunity to play at Wrigley should welcome it"
he's staying for now. Unless I missed an announcement
That doesn’t mean he’s staying past this year.
by HuskerCorner on Jul 20, 2010 4:10 PM CDT up reply actions
Let's hope not.
Shut Up Joe Morgan
by Sandberg's evil twin on Jul 20, 2010 4:11 PM CDT up reply actions
Rickets just said "Jim will be our GM into next year" in the press conf.
read into that what you will…..
"Any player who gets the opportunity to play at Wrigley should welcome it"
Goddamnit so much
If that actually means he’s going to be the GM in 2011, then Ricketts fucking sucks.
by HuskerCorner on Jul 20, 2010 4:16 PM CDT up reply actions
One thing it means is that Hendry will be picking our next manager.
and will be the GM in 2011. When is his contract up?
"Any player who gets the opportunity to play at Wrigley should welcome it"
If that turns out to be true I'm gonna stop saying we need to give Ricketts more time.
Shut Up Joe Morgan
by Sandberg's evil twin on Jul 20, 2010 4:19 PM CDT up reply actions
Oh, one more nugget: Ricketts said Crane Kenney will help Jim pick our new Mgr.
Oh boy!
"Any player who gets the opportunity to play at Wrigley should welcome it"
OH FOR GOD'S SAKE!
I gotta find a new team.
I know I won’t really be able to, but I’m tired of being kicked in the wang by this team.
by HuskerCorner on Jul 20, 2010 4:23 PM CDT up reply actions
meh...show me a link first.
Shut Up Joe Morgan
by Sandberg's evil twin on Jul 20, 2010 4:36 PM CDT up reply actions
ok
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Jul 20, 2010 4:38 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
It was said during the presser, I heard it, plain as day
It was also Twittered by Sully:
PWSullivan Ricketts confirms Hendry will remain as GM “going into next year.” Kenney also part of search.
"Any player who gets the opportunity to play at Wrigley should welcome it"
I heard it too
Now Kenney being part of the search sucks eggs! He doesn’t know the first thing about baseball. He’s the business dude for shits sakes.
OY!!!
More proof that the people upstairs don't know what they're doing
RIP Ronnie James Dio (July 10, 1942 - May 16, 2010).
Seems appropriate since there are people on the field that don't know what they're doing either.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Jul 20, 2010 5:21 PM CDT up reply actions
Fuck me silly.
That’s just horrible.
Shut Up Joe Morgan
by Sandberg's evil twin on Jul 20, 2010 6:03 PM CDT up reply actions
Fredi Gonzalez
Would be a good choice. Bet he’s managing the Braves next year. So it’ll be Ryno, who all will be his coaches and can he get Greg Maddux as pitching coach? He’s paid his dues and we aren’t going to get Girardi. But we will. If he doesn’t end up managing the Cards for many years….
by Fully Kreusened on Jul 20, 2010 4:16 PM CDT reply actions
I admit I would like Fredi
but I figure the Braves have him.
"Lou Piniella's been a great manager for a long time and I stand by him completely"
by Doggie Stalker on Jul 20, 2010 4:17 PM CDT up reply actions
The only relevant news today
Apparently Ricketts thinks Hendry is right man for the job. I am beginning to think he sucks as an owner. Apparently the Byrd-Silva off-season convinced him that Hendry is a good GM. What a joke.
It's sad really
Another manager driven to retirement by failure to reach the promised land. You can say he was old and dispirited, but that was a product of the past year and a half and a realization this team is going to have a tough go of it at least through next year until they can start shedding the awful contracts of Dome, Z, Soriano, etc.
A new manager ain’t going to solve what ails this team. Sorry, that’s a fact.
by BeltwayCubsFan on Jul 20, 2010 4:33 PM CDT reply actions 1 recs
So basically what you're saying about Lou is...
when faced with pressure and disappointment…he quits. He wasn’t “driven” to retirement by this organization, it’s fans, the media, the 40-man roster or anything else.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Jul 20, 2010 4:37 PM CDT up reply actions
Lou didn't "quit"
Sometimes managers just have run their course. That’s apparently what happened here.
I guess you could call Lou's lineup construction and continual benching of Soto and Colvin indications he had "run his course"...
I say he simply quit managing and went through the motions since the middle of May.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Jul 20, 2010 4:48 PM CDT up reply actions
Huh?
You think if he quit managing he would have just been trotting out the same lineup day after day. Just because he was clearly frustrated doesn’t mean he quit trying. This team sucks, no amount of lineup jiggering by Lou was going to change that.
this is a really old argument....and I agree in principle with your statement...
the catch is that a manager that was actually managing would have done almost the exact opposite of what Lou did with respect to Soto, Lee, Ramirez, Byrd, Colvin, Grabow and Z. And even IF those things would have been handled differently, we would most likely still be more than 5 games out of first place, but that’s STILL better than where we are now. Yes the team is bad, but Lou’s inexplicable moves only made something bad into something worse.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Jul 20, 2010 4:55 PM CDT up reply actions
This is an old argument
I really have no desire to rehash it. Lou didn’t do a good job managing this year, but I am not willing to chalk that up to bad faith or laziness. I think he wasn’t given a lot to work with and even with what he was given alot of his moves didn’t work out.
...
alot of his moves didn’t work out.
That’s because there were only 3 moves he actually tried…over and over and over and over again. He basically did NOTHING of consequence to the lineup for over a month and a half while the team was floundering and then announces that he’s tried everything he knows to do. It was a joke. He quit.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Jul 20, 2010 5:09 PM CDT up reply actions
That's not really true
I bet the Cubs tried more lineup combinations than anyone. If you are convinced that he decided to quit on the team in bad faith, there is nothing I can do to change your mind. I am going go with the more logical explanation that the team was bad.
he mixed and matched the bottom of the order mostly...
the two coldest most unproductive hitters were anchored in the middle of the order. Our best OBP hitter was routinely put in the 7th and 8th spots while the worst OBP players were put in the 1st and 2nd spots. Is there some logical explanation you can give me that makes these facts appear to support you claim that it was just the team being bad?
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Jul 20, 2010 5:20 PM CDT up reply actions
I already said he did a bad job this year
I am not willing to chalk it up to laziness or bad faith. That is all.
I can assure you Lou didn't quit.
Too much competetive nature.
"Every player should be accorded the privilege of at least one season with the Chicago Cubs. That's baseball as it should be played - in God's own sunshine. And that's really living." -- Alvin Dark
He just has no clue how to make that clear to the media, huh?
If I had a dollar for every time he’s asked, “What can I do?” in interviews this year…
by Blue Heron on Jul 20, 2010 5:14 PM CDT up reply actions
Per Paul Sullivan
PWSullivan
Ryno is the only named candidate by Hendry. He’s the heir apparent apparently.
Yep, he said that and then said he'd leave no stone unturned and it wouldn't be any two-week process
Sounds like more confusion and typical Cub bullshit! Hendry has this payroll so messed up we are screwed. Why would Ricketts keep these two incompetent clowns, Hendry and Kenney???? What a massive joke of an organization!!
"Any player who gets the opportunity to play at Wrigley should welcome it"
I'd like one reporter to ask Ricketts what makes Kenney qualified to have ANY input at all in the selection of the next manager.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Jul 20, 2010 4:49 PM CDT up reply actions
It is an astounding statement, isn't it?
I’m grasping at straws, here, but the Cubs would still need to abide by MLB’s policies of interviewing qualified minority candidates for the job. Maybe involving Kenney is some way to let Hendry pick his favorite (Sandberg or other) while ensuring they dot all the i’s and cross the t’s.
But, Ryno, if a Greek Orthodox priest shows up at the interview…RUN! RUN!
Somebody take Aramis' bat off the restricted list, please.
I agree with Al
it is time for Ryno to be the next Cubs manager. All he has done from the beginning at A is produce winning teams with what they have given him to work with and I believe that he will continue to do so at the next level. I just hope that it is with the Cubs!
As for all the stats in the world, stats don’t win games, the players win games, ie, the WBC team last year, full of stat guys who didn’t have a clue on how to do what it takes to win!
"I'm not trying to prove anything. Just like the players, if one day the phone rings and a major- league club wants me as a manager, I would hope that I would be ready, with this experience. I don' think that I have to prove anything." - Ryne Sandberg 04-08-2010
OMG you proved it
Sabermagicians are all wasting their time because of the WBC. Of course a team with “stats guys” like Jeter, Youkilis, Pedroia, and Rollins couldn’t win games…. Oh, wait…….
http://www.baseball-reference.com/bullpen/2009_World_Baseball_Classic_%28Rosters%29#USA
I think he was referring to stat guys choosing to use different players in different situations.
And I’d say the WBC was an example of choosing someone with stats over heart. But it’s a difficult and bad example anyway…far too many factors in there with fear of injuries and limited selection of willing players.
Shut Up Joe Morgan
by Sandberg's evil twin on Jul 20, 2010 6:09 PM CDT up reply actions
No shock here.
I’m not sure Ryno is manager material…yet. Girardi is my first choice. Ryno would be an excellent bench coach, keep Rudy, get rid of Rothschild and bring in Maddux as the pitching coach. Just my opinion.
"Every player should be accorded the privilege of at least one season with the Chicago Cubs. That's baseball as it should be played - in God's own sunshine. And that's really living." -- Alvin Dark
I'm making t-shirts to sell this weekend at Wrigley
DON’T LEAVE ME LOU!!!
"They come to see me strike out, hit a home run, or run into a fence. I try to accommodate them at least one way every game." - Gorman Thomas
Good deal. Now since
Tom says Jim will be back as GM next year please choose the next coach wisely.
A lovely story:
One day, long, long ago, there lived a woman who didn't whine, nag or bitch. That would be me....
But that was a long time ago and it was just that one day.
The end
I have been one
that wanted Lou gone after 08. Yes after 98 wins. However 6 straight playoff losses I felt it was time to move on. However no one would ever fire Lou after a 98 win season.
That being said He brought 3 straight winning seasons, no Cub manager has done that in 70 years.
I always loved Ryno. As a player my favorite. He deserves the job. But Giradi and LaRussa are interesting choices.
They aren't realistic choices
Both managers have better situations where they are now than what we have here. Unless the Ricketts decide to shell out a ton of cash for one of these guys they aren’t coming. Given what the Ricketts have done so far, I doubt that will happen.
I know Gammons
is iffy on his comments and can be off base a tad, however he made that comment on WFAN yesterday about LaRussa. He said it would not surprise him to see LaRussa leave and Chicago could be a destination. Crazy stuff happens.
What a surprise
you would make that comment. He has done what the Cubs have told him to do, and he has done that well at least by reports and comments from other players.
He sure will be fun around here if Sandberg gets the job. Say the Cubs go 92-70, you will blame the 70 on Sandberg, no question about it.
We get it you can’t stand the guy, just let it go. Unfortunately for you, he has the best chance to get the job.
everyone is starting at zero
nobody has “the best chance” until they prove it in their interviews.
Jack
derv
Perhaps this was a tactical move by Lou and JH...
…Lou, knowing he was on his way out after this year but just had not made that announcement officially yet – reaches out to JH, figuring that JH is going to get the hook at the end of the season anyway…conjure up this stunt to have his announcement “leaked” to the media at precisely the right time.
Once the media got ahold of Lou’s pending departure (and Pat Hughes was on WGN radio 2 minutes after he read the email) which catches Ricketts with his pants down and sets up JH beautifully to call Ricketts and say “I’m your man through this…”. Ricketts has to announce immediately that JH will remain to oversee the candidate search process so the media does not continue on a path of speculation of the implosion of the team, and locking in JH’s immediate and potentially extended future.
Hmm…
Jack
derv
look
giradi would be a fool to leave the yankees.larussa wont come here.torre is as old as lou. my 2 choices brenly or sandberg.
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