Why The Cubs Should Trade For Kila Ka`aihue
by Al Yellon on Jul 30, 2010 8:00 AM CDT
in Chicago Cubs News
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Derrek Lee, at the end of this season, will have given seven seasons to Cubs fans, with two playoff appearances. There aren't many Cubs of recent vintage who can say they've done that. He's had two outstanding seasons (2005 and 2009), one very good one (2004), two injury-comeback years that were decent (2007 and 2008), a season lost to that injury (2006), and this year, which isn't looking very good, unless somehow he has a hot August and September. Even if that happens, D-Lee's 2010 is going to look like 2007 or 2008, not 2005 or 2009.
The Cubs wanted to trade Derrek Lee, presumably to pick up a prospect or two and get some salary relief. Lee exercised his 10-and-5 rights and rejected any trades this year. We have already discussed this event to death here and the point of this post isn't to rehash that -- so let's not.
The point is that I think October 3 will end Derrek Lee's tenure with the Cubs and they'll be looking for a first baseman. There is no obvious -- or even non-obvious -- choice in the Cubs' farm system. The club wants to get younger, and we have already seen the beginnings of this with the recalls of Starlin Castro and Andrew Cashner and the development of Tyler Colvin into an everyday player.
I've mentioned Royals minor league first baseman Kila Ka`aihue here a number of times. Follow me past the jump to find out why I think Jim Hendry should call up Dayton Moore -- whether now or later -- to deal for Kila and give him the regular first base job for the Cubs in 2011.
In 2008, Ka`aihue, then 24, had a monster season split between the Royals' Double-A team, then at Wichita, and their Triple-A affiliate at Omaha. He hit .314/.456/.628 (yes, that's not a typo: a 1.084 OPS) with 37 HR, 100 RBI and 104 walks with only 67 strikeouts. He got a September callup to the Royals where he went 6-for-21, hit a homer and drew three walks in 24 plate appearances.
He was perfectly positioned to take over the KC first base job in 2009; the Royals' main first baseman in 2008 was Ross Gload, who is a serviceable backup. It was a textbook example of how a team brings a prospect up, watches him dominate every level, and then slides him perfectly into an open slot.
And then the Royals did something that's almost unfathomable. With this outstanding hitter ready to go as a major league starting player, they traded Leo Nunez to the Marlins for Mike Jacobs.
Mike Jacobs hit 32 HR and drove in 93 runs for the 2008 Marlins, but hit .247 with a .299 OBA and struck out 119 times with only 36 walks. He was exactly the wrong type of player to swap for -- a mid-range power hitter coming off the best year of his career, which was only good, not great.
Nunez became the Marlins' closer and Jacobs... sucked. He hit .228/.297/.401 with 19 home runs, and the Royals released him at the end of 2009. Yep, just outright released him, which means they gave up a useful relief pitcher for nothing. Meanwhile, Ka'aihue, who had figured he'd won the job, got sent back to Triple-A where he had nothing to prove, and... sucked. He hit .252/.392/.433 with only 17 HR, but still a ton of walks -- 102. He didn't get a September callup. He had slid down the Royals' depth chart.
This year, he appears to be a man on a mission. In 91 games at Omaha he's hitting .324/.468/.603 with 23 HR and 77 RBI, and has drawn 86 walks while K'ing 66 times. If you think he's just Micah Hoffpauir redux, you'd be wrong -- in that huge year Micah had at Iowa in 2008 where he had 25 HR and 100 RBI in 71 games, he walked only 17 times. Ka`aihue, on the other hand, is an on-base machine with power. His defense has been criticized at times, but he'd be no worse than Adam Dunn there (and probably better), and be a lot cheaper dollar-wise. Signing Dunn would give the Cubs great offensive production, obviously, but would cost money that the Cubs might spend better elsewhere.
Ka'aihue isn't young any more -- he'll be 27 in March -- but I think the Cubs could install him at first base next year and have a good, cost-controlled hitter for three or four years, at least. Also, he hits lefthanded. Haven't the Cubs been looking for a lefthanded power bat for the last couple of years?
How to get him? I imagine the Royals would be looking for young pitching. They don't seem real interested in giving him a chance; mired in last place, they're playing Billy Butler at first base. Butler is a decent player, but Ka'aihue is a better hitter right now, and much more of a possibility to be a future star. The Cubs could select a couple of pitchers from among a group including John Gaub, Craig Muschko, Christopher Carpenter and Jake Muyco, or, if the Royals want pitchers with major league experience, offer them Jeff Stevens, Jeff Gray, Mitch Atkins, Blake Parker or J. R. Mathes or a combination of the above. I'm really just throwing names out there -- I hope some of you who know the system better could put together a package that could bring Kila Ka'aihue to the North Side.
Getting a hitter like this would save money and allow the Cubs to perhaps sign or trade for some pitching help, or keep Ted Lilly.
Get it done, Jim. It could be done now, or groundwork could be laid for acquiring him when the season is over. I'd like to see him manning first base at Wrigley Field no later than next April.
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Excellent
The best idea I’ve heard yet. Seems VERY plausible, and would be a better option than Dunn for a myriad of reasons.
"It's a funny old world. Man's lucky if he gets out of it alive." W.C. Fields
I don't know.
Not even close Royals observers have a clue about what Dayton Moore’s plans are for Kila. It might be the case that they would trade Butler and install Ka’aihue at first. – TL
"Sir,--It has been wittily remarked that there are three kinds of falsehood: the first is a 'fib,' the second is a downright lie, and the third and most aggravated is statistics." *The National Observer* (June 13, 1891): p. 93-94.
I don't know if Dayton Moore has a plan
Outside getting rejects from the NL East.
by David Huzzard on Jul 30, 2010 9:04 AM CDT up reply actions
I have to...
…repeat again that GMDM’s seemingly illogical stop-gap/band-aid major league roster decisions have been driven by a weak minor league system and other factors (esp. the unwillingness of non-desperate free agents—-excepting Meche—-to accept an offer from KC). – TL
"Sir,--It has been wittily remarked that there are three kinds of falsehood: the first is a 'fib,' the second is a downright lie, and the third and most aggravated is statistics." *The National Observer* (June 13, 1891): p. 93-94.
Meh, seen it before
Fading prospect with huge MiLB power, plate discipline, and a DH glove. Jack Cust part deux. I’d give-up one-or-two of our AAAA guys but nothing more.
I'm wet nurse to a (4th)-place, dead-to-the-neck-up ball club, and I'm choking to death!
Considering Moore's trading history...
The Cubs might be able to get him for a song.
(Self mediating Royals fan…sigh)
All you have to do...
…is dangle pitching, and Moore will nibble. – TL
"Sir,--It has been wittily remarked that there are three kinds of falsehood: the first is a 'fib,' the second is a downright lie, and the third and most aggravated is statistics." *The National Observer* (June 13, 1891): p. 93-94.
A million times YES
This guy is straight up ridonkulous. Yesterday, I brought up how he’s kind of like a Starlin Castro at his position, except that the Royals organization has practically forgotten about how. Kila is the perfect guy to be playing 1B for the Royals at the major league level, and their current 1B needs to be moved to DH. They aren’t going to do that though, and it really seems like they’re waiting for someone to trade for him. Do it Cubs, and build to the future.
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by Craig in South Bend on Jul 30, 2010 8:15 AM CDT reply actions
No way.
Castro is young and plays a premium position. First baseman/DH types are a dime a dozen, honestly. The exception here is that Kila is left-handed. – TL
"Sir,--It has been wittily remarked that there are three kinds of falsehood: the first is a 'fib,' the second is a downright lie, and the third and most aggravated is statistics." *The National Observer* (June 13, 1891): p. 93-94.
Absolutely not, spectacularly bad idea
A good hitting SS is a lot harder to find than a good hitting 1B
I always turn to the sports section first. The sports page records people's accomplishments; the front page has nothing but man's failures.
~Earl Warren
by lookingdeadred on Jul 30, 2010 10:25 AM CDT up reply actions
You guys are misunderstanding me
I made the Castro comparison to point out how he’s a good young player in their system who should be playing on their major league team, except it’s the Royals and they haven’t made that move.
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by Craig in South Bend on Jul 30, 2010 10:27 AM CDT up reply actions
Intriguing idea, but what do I know about minor league players...
If the Cubs still have a chance, no matter how small, it’s still Go Cubs, damn the math and pass the KoolAid.
OT: To DLee:
Don’t worry, you’re still my sentimental favorite on this team!!
"I'm not much of a chemistry guy, you know. Chemistry to me is a pinch-hit double with the bases loaded"--Jim Frey, Chicago Tribune, 1985.
If I ever have a son
he shall be named Derrek.
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by Craig in South Bend on Jul 30, 2010 8:19 AM CDT up reply actions
Derrik?
"Manny Trillo is coming in to pinch run. You know, for a lot of teams, you would pinch run for Manny Trillo." - Harry Caray
...
"Fasten those seatbelts!"-Pat Hughes
by katie casey on Jul 30, 2010 10:25 AM CDT up reply actions
I don't know too much about him
But why not give it a shot.
"Get up or GET OUT THE WAY!"
~Stacy King
by wrigleyrocker12 on Jul 30, 2010 8:18 AM CDT reply actions
I concur
This is a no-brainer move to me. So much so, that I really would offer better prospects than you mentioned above. Not BJax or Lee – but possibly anyone else in the minor league system. Would you trade Jay Jackson straight up for him? I think I would. As I said yesterday, this should Hendry’s primary mission at the moment. The young core we would have would put us in a position we haven’t been in for a long time. If he works out, then in the 2011-2012 free agent pool you can look for a second baseman (Rickie Weeks?)
Re looking for a second basemen
We have two players in our minor league system who can be brought up to play 2B, and they’re almost ready.
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by Craig in South Bend on Jul 30, 2010 8:31 AM CDT up reply actions
Which two players
are you referring to Craig?
Well, maybe not almost ready, but they're getting closer
Darwin Barney and HJL. Both are SS right now, but they could be moved to 2B.
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by Craig in South Bend on Jul 30, 2010 8:43 AM CDT up reply actions
Lee isn't ready.
He’s only 19. Also, most likely WHEN he is ready, Castro would move to 2B, not the other way around.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
Or that.
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by Craig in South Bend on Jul 30, 2010 8:44 AM CDT up reply actions
I know that's the theory everyone is working behind
but it’s going to be awful tough to move Castro if he is an top shorstop that is an above average to good defender. Only time will tell, but either way, if both make it up, 2nd base would be covered. He, though, will likely only be in A+ next season, and don’t rule out Junior Lake getting tried at 2nd base.
Honestly,
I wasn’t all that excited about Lee at shortstop. Seen him in a few games, and raw talent definitely applies. I don’t think that this is a decision that anyone needs to worry about for a few years, if ever.
by Damen Jackson on Jul 30, 2010 9:04 AM CDT up reply actions
19 years old.
Too early to say “if ever.” He is, however, at least 2-3 years away from the bigs.
Lee would have to be a spectacular SS to bump Castro to 2B
if Castro has been a quality SS for a couple of years.
I always turn to the sports section first. The sports page records people's accomplishments; the front page has nothing but man's failures.
~Earl Warren
by lookingdeadred on Jul 30, 2010 10:28 AM CDT up reply actions
An infield with guys with that type of range is awesome to think about though
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by Craig in South Bend on Jul 30, 2010 10:29 AM CDT up reply actions
all this speculation aside....Castro has established himself as THE SS
The infielders in the Cubs system are now vying for two spots; 2B (which is open) and utility infielder, also open.
Hak-Ju Lee to be brought up in the next year to year and a half must fulfill the superstar status. He might have the tools and the potential but there is a long way to the next level of showing the club he is ready like Castro did.
Barney on the other hand seems to have made the case. He might be the super utility player of the future or he might ascend to starting 2B, Thomas, LaMathieu or a SS like Lake or Hak-Ju Lee. As for Lake (another Dominican Rep prospect at 20 yrs old) or others I don’t know except there will be another spot open in the infield…3B and yes there seems to be competition for that spot as well starting with Vitters but also Flaherty.
The issue Al raised was 1B and this potential trade has legs if KC has given up on him. Don’t forget Samardzijia in that his deal expires this year.
Piniella: "This is a tougher job than I thought it would be, I'm going to be honest with you."
Agreed to a point
Castro has established himself (for now) as the SS for the foreseeable future, but Lee at SS and Castro at 2B is not that big of a stretch. If Lee proves to be a big league SS, then the Cubs ahve the nice problem of having two high quality SS. It is possible that Lee will be better defensively necessitating Castro’s move to 2B.
I always turn to the sports section first. The sports page records people's accomplishments; the front page has nothing but man's failures.
~Earl Warren
by lookingdeadred on Jul 30, 2010 2:00 PM CDT up reply actions
I'd think Lake
would be more likely to take over for Aramis in two years than play 2B.
That’s if Vitters doesn’t pan out or stick at 3B.
by Josh Timmers on Jul 30, 2010 12:23 PM CDT up reply actions
Agreed
Lee is nowhere close to ready. Barney is.
by Josh Timmers on Jul 30, 2010 12:21 PM CDT up reply actions
Barney & HJL
I thought Barney was projected more of a utility backup guy. And like you said, Lee is a ways away.
no
jay jackson has actually given me some hope in july, with the improved K rate.
May not be the spot to ask
But do you know if they have Jackson working on anything in particular that may be the cause for some inflated June/July numbers?
off the top no
his July numbers have been okay. June was bad … but then again, there was the switch to the pen. That said, some of the warning signs were always there – K rate, HR rate, BB rate and so forth.
I agree
I don’t want to part with Jackson or Archer for Ka’aihue. Carpenter I could afford to lose.
by Josh Timmers on Jul 30, 2010 12:25 PM CDT up reply actions
K
A lovely story:
One day, long, long ago, there lived a woman who didn't whine, nag or bitch. That would be me....
But that was a long time ago and it was just that one day.
The end
...
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Jul 30, 2010 1:16 PM CDT up reply actions
...
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Jul 30, 2010 2:13 PM CDT up reply actions
...
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Jul 30, 2010 2:23 PM CDT up reply actions
...
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Jul 30, 2010 2:37 PM CDT up reply actions
...
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Jul 30, 2010 2:49 PM CDT up reply actions
Like the New "V" Better
I liked the 1980’s “V” well enough, but the new “V” has more depth with its characters and plot lines. Anna makes a great villain.
"The big possums walk late." - Harry Caray
out of respect for Al's wishes that BCB be a politics-free zone...
…I won’t post any of the many images I had in mind for this letter. Would not be a good strategery on my part. I’ll just wait for the next letter…
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
This is stupid.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Jul 30, 2010 2:55 PM CDT up reply actions
no...
that ballhawk feels that posting a picture of a U.S. President violates that policy is.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Jul 30, 2010 2:58 PM CDT up reply actions
OH NOES! POLITICS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Jul 30, 2010 2:59 PM CDT up reply actions
BUT HE KEPT TEXAS OUT OF THE UNION!!!!!!!
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Jul 30, 2010 3:08 PM CDT up reply actions
would you say that if you knew
that he “went commando” for the painting?
Carlos Silva lemonade: made from freshly squeezed Milton Bradley lemons. -- the Jim Hendry kook book.
ahhh... but you don't know the images I had in mind... ;-)
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
whatever...we're posting dumb images alphabetically...
I don’t get the consternation about it regardless of what you had in mind.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Jul 30, 2010 3:04 PM CDT up reply actions
Like a rock
but dumber?
www.facebook.com/craighudak
by Craig in South Bend on Jul 30, 2010 3:57 PM CDT up reply actions
.....
????
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Jul 30, 2010 2:47 PM CDT up reply actions
He's not that good
We need a first baseman, but Kila is not the solution. He’s 26 years old and is doing all his damage in a hitters league in his 3rd season in it.
His major league equivalencies are .246/.367/.417, which isn’t bad, but not nearly good enough for a first baseman. There are reasons that the Royals haven’t brought him up, they don’t just hate the guy. And to compare his PCL stats to Butler’s MLB stats to determine who is a better hitter is silly, especially when Butler is still several years younger.
Visit www.WrigleyBound.com, your source for Cubs minor league talk.
"Several" years younger?
Butler is two years younger than Ka’aihue. I think the MLE’s you quote underestimate him. If the PCL is such a hitters’ league, why aren’t there other hitters doing what he’s doing?
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
Sorry
*A couple years younger.
Bryan LaHair is 1 year older than Kila and hitting .310/.382/.545 for Iowa. Or how about Brad Snyder, who is 28 and hitting .303/.374/.538? Remember when Micah Hoffpauir hit .362/.393.,752 a couple of years ago?
There are 16 hitters in the PCL with OPS’s greater than 900, and another 17 between 850 and 900. Kila’s not even leading the league, John Lindsey has that honor. Studs like Jay Gibbons, Steve Tolleson, Chris Lubanski and Russ Mitchell are killing it.
I’m not sure why you think there aren’t other hitters doing what he’s doing.
Agreed
A thousand times agreed. While the Royals system is improving, Kaaihue it not one of their top prospects. He’s piling up numbers in a hitters league. I’d rather have Alex Gordon who has alredy flopped once in MLB than a guy like Kaaihue who might never hit in the MLB. More likely, Kaaihue’s career path will end like that of Hoffpauir, possibly injury replacement for short stretches at 1B or a bench player with a pinch-hitting role.
Then again, trading any of the organizational arms previously mentioned, Stevens, Gray, Atkins, Parkter, Mathes, or like Schlitter, Berg, Samardzija…is a no-lose proposition.
"When the day comes with that last winning run and I'm crying and covered in beer. I'll look to the sky and know I was right to think someday we'll go all the way." - Vedder
This a little pessimistic, but...
…the point is that Kila needs at least 1-2 seasons in the majors to display his true talents. He’s an unknown.
"Sir,--It has been wittily remarked that there are three kinds of falsehood: the first is a 'fib,' the second is a downright lie, and the third and most aggravated is statistics." *The National Observer* (June 13, 1891): p. 93-94.
But Al, two years...
…is like a dog’s age in terms of major leaguers. I think Butler’s a better hitter—-proven at the ML level—-no holes in his swing, respect from opposing managers, etc. Kila’s good, but he’s not yet Butler good. – TL
"Sir,--It has been wittily remarked that there are three kinds of falsehood: the first is a 'fib,' the second is a downright lie, and the third and most aggravated is statistics." *The National Observer* (June 13, 1891): p. 93-94.
Maybe not...
… but he’d still be a decent, cost-effective 1B solution for a while.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
Not to put to fine a point on it...
But Kila projects as any number of a few dozen guys who likely could be inserted at first base, and give you a .800 OPS on the cheap. What is it exactly that makes him so special in your mind?
by Damen Jackson on Jul 30, 2010 9:01 AM CDT up reply actions
I'm guessing
it’s the walk totals. Perhaps the belief is that he’s a pre-shoulder injury Travis Hafner. A belief I do not share for the record.
"When the day comes with that last winning run and I'm crying and covered in beer. I'll look to the sky and know I was right to think someday we'll go all the way." - Vedder
Yes, it's those walk totals.
The Cubs could use a guy with good plate discipline. Will he be as good as pre-injury Hafner? Probably not, but even 80% of that would be a good ML first baseman.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
The idea
Itself is decent enough. I just think, like others have pointed out, that 1B-types like this are reasonably plentiful in the upper minors. Snyder was once considered a better prospect than Kaaihue ever was and LaHair also was getting some chatter about being a MLB 1B. I think Kaaihue falls squarely in line with those two.
Not necessarily against the idea if it involves some of the marginal arms the Cubs have trotted out in their bullpen this year but am not convinced Kaaihue would even be MLB-average at 1B.
"When the day comes with that last winning run and I'm crying and covered in beer. I'll look to the sky and know I was right to think someday we'll go all the way." - Vedder
Well, I'll disagree with you...
… I don’t see LaHair or Snyder with the sort of plate discipline that Ka’aihue has.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
Decent and cost-effective - sure...
My only beef was with your statement that Ka`aihue is a better hitter right now than Butler, and that he has better star potential. Butler put up similar numbers in AAA at a much younger age.
Ka`aihue would be cheap, but expecting more than an .800 or so OPS from him might be asking too much.
agreed
Butler’s a better hitter right now. I am a tad concerned about the power dip for Butler. I don’t think he will consistently have the power he had last year … but I think the power should be better than what it’s been this year by a touch.
Those numbers...
…are better than DLee’s this season!
"Sir,--It has been wittily remarked that there are three kinds of falsehood: the first is a 'fib,' the second is a downright lie, and the third and most aggravated is statistics." *The National Observer* (June 13, 1891): p. 93-94.
The plate discipline
is not a product of the PCL. We at least know that skill will translate. He has power, the question is whether he will hit MLB pitching. Wrigley would be an ideal place to test whether the PCL power numbers translate. He’d certainly be more valuable at Wrigley than at Kaufman.
Sure, he’s a bit of a question mark. That’s why ideally, you would bring him over now and give him two months to demonstrate his abilities and adjust to MLB pitching.
He is
sort of like the AAA Cubs Brad Snyder. Puts up good minor league numbers but just has not gotten the chance. I am skepictal because as we all know, good minor league numbers do not always translate into good numbers at the ML level.
Go Cubs!
Brad Snyder isn't anywhere close to that good a hitter.
And he’s two years older.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
Missed the point Al
I am not so sure. Regardless we will disagree on that one. My point albeit maybe not clear, is there are some guys that put good if not great numbers up in the minors but never get their chance at the ML level.
Go Cubs!
And...
… there are sometimes reasons for that beyond baseball performance.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
Understood
I recall asking the question about the knock on Synder. You replied that you heard he does not work hard. So yes, maybe there is something the Royals see in this guy that they don’t like.
Go Cubs!
Possibly so.
Maybe the change of scenery would do him some good.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
My theory is that the Royals announcers protested K.K. being on the team
because they can’t pronounce his name.
"Enough foreplay- let's get crackin'"- Fred Garvin
pronounced
Kila (KEY-luh) Ka’aihue (Ky-uh-HOO-A)
Now, wouldn't it be fun to hear Ron Santo try to pronounce that?
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
Sumfin like
Harry: “Steve, how would you pronounce that backwards?”
Steve: “Harry, I’m not sure I could spell that backwards.”
Infinitely fun!
Santo would never get it right.
"Sir,--It has been wittily remarked that there are three kinds of falsehood: the first is a 'fib,' the second is a downright lie, and the third and most aggravated is statistics." *The National Observer* (June 13, 1891): p. 93-94.
Yeah
That could be pretty amusing.
I only just recently learned that I had been pronouncing Kiki Cuyler wrong all my life which made me feel pretty foolish. I’m glad I asked because I even had the Kila part wrong.
"Fasten those seatbelts!"-Pat Hughes
Well, you could do no worse than Les Nessman did
when he pronounced Chi Chi Rodriguez as “Chy Chy Rod’ dreg eeze” on a sportscast.
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
don't love the cast
seems an odd grouping, but I’ll wait and see. O’Loughlin did have a good run as a cop on Shield, but the character is a bit different.
Is actual first name is Micah. Is this a good sign?
One of Lee Elia's 15%
by waiting4cubs on Jul 30, 2010 8:43 AM CDT up reply actions
Yabbut...
… Micah Hoffpauir’s real first name isnt Micah. It’s James.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
Phfew! That was close.
One of Lee Elia's 15%
by waiting4cubs on Jul 30, 2010 8:46 AM CDT up reply actions
Dayton Moore has proved himself to be a first-class idiot.
Just a plain ol’ dumbass. Give him somebody that was at one point projected high, throw in some other rubbish, and w00t!, you have a trade. Oh, and I have no idea why they haven’t moved Kila already. Butler should be the DH, but they have Guillen there. So dumb.
FUN FACT:
Yesterday on the local KC sports radio, Ned Yost was asked about possible leadoff hitters. Scott Podsednik being traded, they have no “true” leadoff, and we all know how much these old-timer managers love scrappy white guys that hit for no power but can “do the right things”. Who comes to mind? Yes, Ned Yost suggested that Jason Kendall may hit leadoff in the near future. I almost killed myself on the highway, I was crying out of my left eye and bleeding out of my right. Ned Yost, you are so dumb.
"The riches of the game are in the thrills, not the money." --Ernie Banks
Exactly
Why Butler isn’t DH is beyond me.
www.facebook.com/craighudak
by Craig in South Bend on Jul 30, 2010 8:44 AM CDT up reply actions
Because the Royals are paying Jose Guillen a metric buttload of money.
They have to use him somewhere. Yes, this is another reason the Royals are dysfunctional.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
I hate that argument
that because player X makes Y amount of money they must play Z position. It’s best to not pay that money to that player in the first place, but I think we all know how that goes as it’s been discussed ad nauseum.
www.facebook.com/craighudak
by Craig in South Bend on Jul 30, 2010 8:47 AM CDT up reply actions
I'm not saying I buy that argument, either.
The Royals shouldn’t have paid Guillen all that $. They shouldn’t have paid Jason Kendall or Rick Ankiel or Scott Podsednik, either, but they did. They managed to move Scotty Pods.
The point is, that once they have a guy like Guillen on the team, having paid him, he’s going to play, whether it’s good for the team or not.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
But the Royals are...
…about ready to take care of the Guillen problem. I guarantee Guillen won’t be with KC by Sept. 1.
"Sir,--It has been wittily remarked that there are three kinds of falsehood: the first is a 'fib,' the second is a downright lie, and the third and most aggravated is statistics." *The National Observer* (June 13, 1891): p. 93-94.
Really?
How are they going to do that? They still have to pay him, right?
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
Yes.
I think they’re going to pay him to leave if they can’t trade him for a bag of beans to a super-needy, semi-competitive team (e.g. Giants have been rumored for some time). – TL
"Sir,--It has been wittily remarked that there are three kinds of falsehood: the first is a 'fib,' the second is a downright lie, and the third and most aggravated is statistics." *The National Observer* (June 13, 1891): p. 93-94.
Yep.
It seems un-Glass like, but I think they make something happen to accommodate Kila and few other younger, more professional players (e.g. Kila).
"Sir,--It has been wittily remarked that there are three kinds of falsehood: the first is a 'fib,' the second is a downright lie, and the third and most aggravated is statistics." *The National Observer* (June 13, 1891): p. 93-94.
You have no...
…idea what you’re talking about. KC’s minor league system has pushed them into some bad major league roster moves—all stopgaps and bandaids. Sure, Moore’s not been perfect. But he’s in the low-mid-range of GMs. – TL
"Sir,--It has been wittily remarked that there are three kinds of falsehood: the first is a 'fib,' the second is a downright lie, and the third and most aggravated is statistics." *The National Observer* (June 13, 1891): p. 93-94.
there is certainly some validity to the idea
that the Royals system was weak and that he tried to find stopgaps, particularly after some guys struggled. That, though, doesn’t excuse all the bad moves he’s made, such as the Yuniesky Betancourt trade.
To his credit, Moore has built one of the top farm systems in the game, with a plethora of top arms, and 2 potentially exciting bats (although Moustakas had some bad splits this year).
Exactly.
Every GM has his clunkers (see Jim Hendry’s resume), but Moore has built a top-5 system from one that was bottom-5 about 3 years ago. – TL
"Sir,--It has been wittily remarked that there are three kinds of falsehood: the first is a 'fib,' the second is a downright lie, and the third and most aggravated is statistics." *The National Observer* (June 13, 1891): p. 93-94.
And yet, they won't just let the kids play.
Why not let those guys play? Why sign washed-up free agents? It makes no sense.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
I think they answer here...
…pre-dates Moore. Too often the old, pre-Moore Royals would play a young promising player too soon, thereby ruining him. Moore has been adamant about players getting the full maturation process. Even astute Royals fans have been less than understanding based on the old model of promoting AA prospects. Those days are done. For morality tales on KC promoting players too soon, see Alex Gordon and Zach Greinke. – TL
"Sir,--It has been wittily remarked that there are three kinds of falsehood: the first is a 'fib,' the second is a downright lie, and the third and most aggravated is statistics." *The National Observer* (June 13, 1891): p. 93-94.
Seems to me...
… that Gordon is a textbook example of how a team screwed up a player. They played him regularly for two years, he showed some modest improvement… then boom, he’s back in the minors. Now he’s 26 and seemingly declining.
Greinke had the social anxiety disorder issue which held him back.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
So...
Why should the Cubs resign Ted Lily?
Because some on the Cubs has to keep Yadiar Molina
in line.
"Lou Piniella's been a great manager for a long time and I stand by him completely"
Jim Hendry
by Doggie Stalker on Jul 30, 2010 9:49 AM CDT up reply actions
Because I ♥ him?
Oh and just so you know, his name is spelled Lilly-not the flower.
"Fasten those seatbelts!"-Pat Hughes
Not Like Lily Tomlin?
I remember “9 to 5” and watched Laugh-In re-runs.
"The big possums walk late." - Harry Caray
Ted Lilly
= 1.2 WAR
Scott Podsednik= 1.2 WAR
Yes.
Pods is batting .308/.352/.397 from the lead-off spot. He also has 31 SB.
War, hmph, what is it good for?
I'll go to my grave believing Armando Galarraga tossed the 21st perfect game in MLB history.
Well Tim, you're a respectable poster here and at RR, but to call me out for no good reason is pretty much bullshit.
First, a minor league system can be as good as all hell, but it matters naut until there is production at the big league level. Dayton Moore is a f*cking idiot. He signs players in KC almost purposefully to block his up-n-comers in the minors. I’m not going to waste my time dissecting the Royals roster and how horseshit it is; you know and I know it is pure crap. The farm system has turned around, I’ll agree with that. But you don’t get credit for minor league improvement. You don’t. Nothing. You get credit for on-the-field, MLB success. And at that, Dayton Moore is a failure.
Dan
PS – KU > MU
"The riches of the game are in the thrills, not the money." --Ernie Banks
especially the part about Dan's eyes bleeding and crying at the same time. Way cool!
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
It's Been Bad for KC Since...
the Royals played mediocre baseball down the stretch in 2003 and the Chiefs lost to the Colts in the playoffs after the 2006 season.
"The big possums walk late." - Harry Caray
Anyone...
know Jim Hendry’s email address so we can pop this article to the inbox…Based on who will be available, might as well try to get a guy cheap who can fill the spot for a few years and if he doesn’t pan out, train Colvin to play first, his tall, lanky build would work there.
by Michael Consolazio on Jul 30, 2010 8:44 AM CDT reply actions
I wouldn't say that Kila is a better hitter than Butler...
In AAA at 21 years of age, Butler did this in 202 AB: .291/.412/.542 (.954 OPS)
In AAA at 22 years of age, Butler did this in 101 AB: .337/.417/.564 (.981 OPS)
In three AAA seasons (at ages 24-26), Ka`aihue did the following: .284/.424/.518
I see no reason to assume that Ka`aihue would put up better numbers than Butler’s ~.850 OPS over the last two years in MLB. Nor would I say he’s got better star potential than Butler.
by SouthernCub on Jul 30, 2010 8:49 AM CDT reply actions 1 recs
Exactly.
Until Kila does it at the ML level for a few seasons, saying Kila is better is unreasonable. Sure, KC fans want more from Butler (e.g. some HR pop), but Butler is a proven hitter. – TL
"Sir,--It has been wittily remarked that there are three kinds of falsehood: the first is a 'fib,' the second is a downright lie, and the third and most aggravated is statistics." *The National Observer* (June 13, 1891): p. 93-94.
Did not know much about Sands.
Looked up his numbers. Pretty impressive, although he has yet to play a game above Double-A.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
Noted
but not looking up his age, I think he is something like 24 or soon to be. So the level he is at is right there in the progression of his career. His average has slipped a tad, but man his OPS is outstanding. And really I think the Dodgers are pretty set at 1B.
Go Cubs!
Sands will be 23 in September.
You’re right, he won’t replace Loney, although there may be a spot open in the Dodgers outfield next year — I wouldn’t expect Manny back there, so maybe Sands could slide into left field.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
FYI morning rumor
Has Dodgers talking to Cubs about Lilly & Theriot as package. To me not worth a fanpost but
FYI.
"Lou Piniella's been a great manager for a long time and I stand by him completely"
Jim Hendry
by Doggie Stalker on Jul 30, 2010 9:00 AM CDT up reply actions
It's already posted as a fanshot.
It was definitely worth that.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
Did not see it as it was on the above the fold group
Still sounds a bit weak to me. Perhaps more like the Cubs saying, You want Lilly, well take Theriot and we will do it for less.
"Lou Piniella's been a great manager for a long time and I stand by him completely"
Jim Hendry
by Doggie Stalker on Jul 30, 2010 9:08 AM CDT up reply actions
sounds like the old joke
First prize= 1 ticket to (insert crappy team here)
Second prize= 2 tickets to (insert crappy team here)
by LT on Jul 30, 2010 9:46 AM CDT up reply actions
Probably not.
Maybe in September, but not now.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
yes
won’t happen, but if we hypothetically got him, you need to see what he has.
Agreed.
This is the kind of deal that you could make now, but also could make in the offseason.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
Is he on their 40 man or
running short on options
He is on their 40-man roster.
Don’t know about his options.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
According to Cot's...
… he was first placed on the 40-man roster on 9/1/2008. Not sure what that means in terms of option years.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
You would have to think if the Cubs got him they would need to play him.
Its not their fault Lee didn’t want to go home to play.
But I agree with Al, Lou wouldn’t do it. It would be just like Dusty all over again. Playing Alou and others…..because they “earned it” for no reason.
2006 and 2010 are remarkably similar.
I want Lou working with our kids!!!!!!
Tom Ricketts does!
Worth a try, but likely not a superstar...
Hello everyone. First time to this Cubs board. I like the idea of seeing if we can get Kila. I don’t think he’s going to be an all-star, but I can see him being a serviceable, cost-controlled lefty bat at first base, something the Cubs can use next year.
We really don’t have any cost-effective options at first base next year that are all that exciting. I’d rather have a cheap player who has some upside versus spending a ton of money on a 2nd-tier 1st baseman. Lee is pretty much never going to be worth $10M+ again, so why not see what it costs at the very least? Would anybody object getting this guy for a mid-level prospect and seeing what he can do in Spring Training?
I wouldn’t want to give up a package of good prospects, but a mid-level prospect or two for the potential seems worth it to me.
Just a note: Baseball America doesn’t have him listed as a top-10 prospect in the Royals organization over either of the last two years, but do have him listed as their “best strike zone discipline” guy both of the past two years.
Welcome to BCB.
Hopefully it’s an enjoyable stay!
Thanks!
I promise not to post wild trade rumors, propose unlikely trade scenarios, or ignore advanced stats in favor of weaker stats to support my arguments.
by IOftenPanic on Jul 30, 2010 10:52 AM CDT up reply actions
Then you don't belong here
We can't win at home. We can't win on the road. I just can't figure out where else to play!
-- Pat Williams
by Fat Punk Kicker on Jul 30, 2010 11:23 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Because the cost seems relatively low
and the reward has potential to be high, I’m on board. But it sounds an awful lot like the aforementioned Hoff-ster or Hee Seop Choi.
BCB - We have our own dictionary!
Exactly.
Good numbers, minor league first base/DH types are a dime a dozen. ML pitchers have a way of exposing holes in your game. – TL
"Sir,--It has been wittily remarked that there are three kinds of falsehood: the first is a 'fib,' the second is a downright lie, and the third and most aggravated is statistics." *The National Observer* (June 13, 1891): p. 93-94.
The point is that Ka'aihue has never really even received a chance to find that out.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
I agree.
I just have a sense that he’s going to get his chance this year and next to show his potential.
"Sir,--It has been wittily remarked that there are three kinds of falsehood: the first is a 'fib,' the second is a downright lie, and the third and most aggravated is statistics." *The National Observer* (June 13, 1891): p. 93-94.
Neither have hundreds of minor league first basemen who
never would have panned out.
As I noted...
… he’s 100 times better than Hoffpauir in terms of plate discipline. In 994 minor league games, Kila has drawn 671 walks. In 795 games, Hoffpauir has drawn 262 walks.
Choi might have become a good major league hitter if not for the collision with Kerry Wood and the concussion he suffered. He was never quite the same player after that. In 2003, Choi hit .244/.389/.496 pre-concussion, but only .164/.263/.269 when he returned.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
Agreed on Choi.
His career, which seems to project similarly to Kila’s, was derailed by that freak injury. – TL
"Sir,--It has been wittily remarked that there are three kinds of falsehood: the first is a 'fib,' the second is a downright lie, and the third and most aggravated is statistics." *The National Observer* (June 13, 1891): p. 93-94.
I'm not sure I agree
the injury was what did Choi in. It certainly didn’t help, but I recall Choi having a lot of holes in his long swing even before the collision. I don’t think Choi was going to be a big success long-term whether that collision happened or not.
I guess I’m skeptical about Kila as well. I’m skeptical of anyone stuck in the minors despite having a ton of success in AAA. If he was in the Cubs system right now, half the fans would be clammoring for him, and half would label him as a AAAA player.
DEJESUS!!!
Maybe.
But you can clearly see he’s better than Micah Hoffpauir at Triple-A, right?
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
I agree with you there
and you can only hope he can replicate that discipline at the ML level. With KC you can’t rule out that they’re just idiots for keeping him stashed in the minors. Other organizations and I’d be a lot more weary wondering what they’re seeing that his numbers don’t show.
BCB - We have our own dictionary!
You'd rather take a shot on a guy who's closing in on 1000 minor league games...
then spend money on a guy like Adam Dunn? Think about that Al…1000 minor league games? That should tell ya something right there.
Ron Santo - 8,143 ABs, .277 BA; 342 HR; 1331 RBI = NO Hall of Fame?
Brooks Robinson - 10,654 ABs, .267 BA; 268 HR; 1357 RBI = Hall of Fame.
Any more questions ?
IF Sandberg is the next manager
I suspect unlike our last two , he might actually like a guy who has great plate discipline
and walks a lot.
"Lou Piniella's been a great manager for a long time and I stand by him completely"
Jim Hendry
I think you're...
…on to something here. I see Sandberg as more likely to extract maximum value from a young player than Ned Yost. But this is just speculation too. – TL
"Sir,--It has been wittily remarked that there are three kinds of falsehood: the first is a 'fib,' the second is a downright lie, and the third and most aggravated is statistics." *The National Observer* (June 13, 1891): p. 93-94.
I think a mosquito can extract more value from young players
Than Ned Yost.
I trust that was a reference to Ned's swatting the mosquito
which lead to runner caught stealing. One of my favorite baseball “incidents” of the last few years.
"Lou Piniella's been a great manager for a long time and I stand by him completely"
Jim Hendry
by Doggie Stalker on Jul 30, 2010 9:48 AM CDT up reply actions
Haha, I wish I could take credit for the reference
But I hadn’t heard that before. I do, however, appreciate bringing it to my attention, that’s pretty hilarious.
Much funnier if you read the details
http://www.jsonline.com/sports/brewers/29280584.html
"Lou Piniella's been a great manager for a long time and I stand by him completely"
Jim Hendry
by Doggie Stalker on Jul 30, 2010 11:56 AM CDT up reply actions
I like this idea
Does anyone have a scouting report on Ka’ailhue? I wonder if he has a big weakness in his swing that has prevented him from getting more hype. Also, it looks like he made a boat load of errors in the minors.
I don't have a full report...
…but I have a buddy who goes to/watches a lot of games in Omaha and has good things to say about him. The thing everyone seems to note is his plate discipline which is highly ranked among the Royals organization and around the Minors period.
I think (note the word think) that a lot of scouts see him as being a solid 1B/DH type, but because there are a lot of those around he doesn’t really have as much value as some people think. If a team was looking for a LH bat with some upside and good plate discipline, he could certainly fit.
My buddy who coaches (he’s not a professional scout mind you) thinks he can be a .280/25/80 type of guy with a good OBP as a ceiling… which at a cost-controlled rate over the next couple of years would certainly not be a bad thing. He thinks a realistic expectation is about 20 points lower in the batting average with okay power and good plate discipline.
He’s not an elite 1B but will give you value. His opinion (which is usually very solid), not mine. I’m all for giving him a shot considering where this team is and if we can get him relatively cheap in terms of prospects/talent.
by IOftenPanic on Jul 30, 2010 11:02 AM CDT up reply actions
Thanks for the insight
Sounds like your buddy thinks he’d replicate Derrek Lee’s average performance for a fraction of the cost… albeit without the great glove. Let’s get him! I would think the Royals would move him for a decent upside bullpen arm like Schlitter or Stevens and maybe one of our AAA 1B (Hoff or LaHair). Then sign a veteran 1B/OF type for under $2 million like Nady or Connor Jackson (non-tender candidate?) to back him up.
by tom veryzer on Jul 30, 2010 11:18 AM CDT up reply actions
I definetly do not want Nady back. Double-play machine.
Everyone's thought process with this team is that the playoffs start now. Tomorrow is going to be Day One of our run to October.
-- Marlon Byrd
by Ryno Runner on Jul 30, 2010 11:25 AM CDT up reply actions
Well...
…he said that’s what he thinks Kila’s ceiling is (so maybe .260/20/70 is more realistic?). He’s certain that he can work counts and draw walks, the question is where his average will end up and how many of those HRs will be 2Bs or long outs.
Still as a cost-controlled player, and looking what’s available during free agency, this could be a decent shot at a serviceable regular at a great price. The big guys are likely getting re-signed for ridiculous money, and the other 1B options will probably get way overpaid (like Carlos Pena).
Well, truthfully
If this guy plays 1B and hits .260 with around 20 HR’s and drives in 70 runs or so, people will be screaming to get him out of the lineup and get a replacement, particularly those that still believe Derrek Lee saves a ton of runs with his defense.
You need someone better than those numbers indicate…just look at how Lee’s lack of production has been detrimental to this club’s offense.
"When the day comes with that last winning run and I'm crying and covered in beer. I'll look to the sky and know I was right to think someday we'll go all the way." - Vedder
If that's the floor
You bid on the upside. I’d be happy if he came in and hit .275/.375/.450 with 25 homers and cost us the league minimum.
a lot of people comment about his age...
but Adrian Gonlelez was the same age as this guy before he got a regular chance to play
That's not accurate...
Gonzalez was in the MLB at 22 and was a full-time MLB starter at 24. Ka`aihue is 26, and didn’t reach AAA until he was 24. Two years is a world of difference in terms of a prospect.
by SouthernCub on Jul 30, 2010 12:05 PM CDT up reply actions
your right...
i don’t know why I thought he was older than he is
i'm fuzzy
on all the details of contract stuff but wouldn’t he have been a minor league free agent already? he’s been in the royals system for nine years now.
there are certainly examples of guys that have been successful after being ignored for a while in the minors (luke scott and nelson cruz come to mind) but those guys almost always bounce around for a while before making the majors. its one thing to not give a guy a shot but its another entirely to not give a guy a shot and refuse to trade him to an organization that will.
so while i’m not totally sour on the idea i don’t think he’s a lock to be a productive major league hitter and i’m not sure there’s a need to trade for kila when you could give bryan lahair or brad snyder a chance without giving anything up.
Either of those players, especially LaHair, should be up now playing 1B.
Lee does not need to play everyday, let alone bat third.
But thats what Lou, JH, and TR think should happen, because it sure helps us for next season!
LaHair is two years older than Kila...
… and never had the plate discipline in the minor leagues.
Brad Snyder will never play for the major league Cubs.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
My point is why are these guys not getting a shot when the Cubs are out of the race?
Is it a law that Lee has to play? I guess with Lou it is.
But then again when Lou retired, he got to stick around so I guess its fair play to JH and TR.
I'm sure they'll get a shot when rosters expand, but who do we get rid of......and how
in order to bring up either Snyder or Lahair. Your argument would make sense if they were on the roster right now and Lee was playing instead of them…….but they’re not.
by HuskerCorner on Jul 30, 2010 4:32 PM CDT up reply actions
he's not a lock
that’s all i’m saying. it’s not like what he’s doing at AAA is unprecedented and he hasn’t been able to do it consistently. he could still be a useful major league player, especially in his pre-arb years, but the chance he’s a bust is also very high.
by circuitclout on Jul 30, 2010 10:11 AM CDT up reply actions
Nope, he's on their 40-man roster...
And has been for 2 years. Had he not been added to the 40-man roster, he’d have become a free agent.
thanks
thought that might be the case, but wasn’t sure.
by circuitclout on Jul 30, 2010 10:16 AM CDT up reply actions
I'm still not sure Kila will be available this offseason
Since Hosmer is a couple years away, they can actually buy time by playing Kila for a year as 1st/DH with Butler, since Guillen will be gone after the season.
That said, with Hosmer pushing hard, it’s possible they decide to sell Kila this offseason. I’m not sure Kila is the stud some folks online believe him to be, but he does deserve a shot at some point, and considering our lack of options, he’d be a reasonable guy to try if the price was right.
Two things thus come to mind -
a) What is the price?
If the price is as Al suggests, then of course you take the gamble. Most of those arms are expendable. I like Muschko a bit, but he’s an end of the rotation type guy. Gaub was a tad overhyped last year (another commentator told me he thought Gaub could be a set-up, borderline closer type), but still has a shot to be a good plus-LOOGY type. Muyco is system filler. Gray/Atkins/Stevens/Parker could all be decent pen arms, but only a couple have borderline setup ability (Gray, perhaps Parker) and you can live with moving on from that. The only good prospect of the bunch is Christopher Carpenter, and despite some raw ability, he has work to do to be more than a mid-end of the rotation type. He might be better off in the pen.
You never know what another GM may want or think about things, but on paper, if the cost is one or two of those arms, sure, take the leap. That said, KC has one of the best minor league systems out there, heavy on the arm side, but a few intriguing bats mixed in (Moustakas/Hosmer/Myers/Colon), They can afford to be a bit choosy, and I wonder if they will be. Now, a Carpenter and one deal is probably fair enough value, but I do wonder if they’ll be choosy about things.
I tend to think it’s more likely that they simply play him in the bigs next spring.
b) Playing the hypothetical -
Adding Kila to first means that the OF is Colvin/Byrd/Soriano. It isn’t a bad situation by any means – as noted, it’s a fine enough gamble IF the price is right.
Thing is, this offseason, I’d like to see the Cubs work hard at reshaping the offense by finding a top of the order bat. All indications are that they understand clearly that Colvin as leadoff is only due to the fact that things have gone so poorly this year. Such a move means that the Cubs only option to find a top of the order bat is at 2nd base.
As noted a couple times, I have high doubts that Kila gets moved, so this may be much ado about nothing. I expect them to young at many positions next year, perhaps Moustakas at 3rd, Kila/Butler at 1st/DH, Gordon in LF.
Not sure I see the connection.
Unless John Olerud is coming out of retirement, they’d have a hard time finding a leadoff hitter at 1B anyway. The same problem will exist regardless whether they use Kila or someone else at 1B and keep the outfielders you named.
Unless your point was that the alternative is to start Colvin at 1B, which is pretty nutty. I know the argument he played there some in college or high school, but the man is a pretty adept OF too and that’s a lot harder to find.
by Orval Overall on Jul 30, 2010 11:47 AM CDT up reply actions
I agree...
if anything, getting a guy like Ka`aihue would make more sense in terms of hunting for a leadoff option, because he’d be a low-price option at 1B allowing more money to be spent at 2B to fill the leadoff spot.
The only way I see it mattering is if it would cost us too much in trade prospects so as to prevent us from being able to trade for a leadoff man.
But yeah, I don’t see us addressing the leadoff spot through the 1B position.
by SouthernCub on Jul 30, 2010 11:53 AM CDT up reply actions
I think you are misunderstanding what I am saying
If you land Kila, that means that Colvin will take an OF spot, keeping Byrd in CF. That means the only spot for a top of the order bat addition is at 2nd.
Certainly, they could decide that Colvin deserves competition, but the 2nd option is what I prefer at the moment. It opens up two spots, allows Colvin to focus solely on hitting. I’m not a believer that colvin is a dominant/good defensive OF yet. Granted, he added muscle this offseason, so maybe there is legitimate change, but I wouldn’t mind letting him focus on hitting.
White Sox about to make big trade?
Maybe the Z for PEavy deal you propsed Al?
Yeah, I saw that.
Wouldn’t that be something?
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
I know you despise Z now
but Peavy? really? no offense but at least Z is not hurt physically.
The 2010 Randy Hundley Fantasy Camp ruled!!!!
"Despise"?
No. I just think he and the team would both be better off with him elsewhere.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al Yellon on Jul 30, 2010 10:02 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
What? TJ - you want our team ace to be gone?
Ok, that’s it – show’s over. Anyone who had July 30 in the “When will TJ’s one user performance art show end?” pool, collect your winnings at the box office. Everyone else, please exit to the right…
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
Speaking of contests, ballhawk...
… did you ever post the results of your preseason contest?
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
nope - it's on the To Do list though
I had it all figured out and the framework of how I wanted to present the results on a piece of paper – it was somewhat complicated seeing as how some ticket prices actually did go down by a few cents, so I felt obligated to figure it out both ways to satisfy all the lawyers out there.
Anyway, I was all set to make the fanpost when family decided to visit so in the process of TasmanianDevil-cleaning my place, that piece of paper went MIA. That was about the time the Cubs really started to suck, so my motivation went MIA as well.
Like I said, it’s still on the To Do list – I’ll keep looking for that piece of paper or just figure it out again and post the results. Maybe I’ll time it for when the Cubs are mathematically eliminated. Hmm… I better hurry… ;-)
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
Would just rather have Peavy next year...That's all! LOL!
We will win it all this year with or without Giant Z !!!!!!!!!
"Despise"?
No. I just think he and the team would both be better off with him elsewhere.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
fair enough
Even though he’s relatively crazy, I’m still a fan of the Big Z. I wish he would harness his ability (and I will hate to see it on another team).
The 2010 Randy Hundley Fantasy Camp ruled!!!!
by VegasCubFan on Jul 30, 2010 10:04 AM CDT up reply actions
how about the possibility that Peavy will not pitch again?
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
MLB is talking about Edwin Jackson to the Sox
The 2010 Randy Hundley Fantasy Camp ruled!!!!
by VegasCubFan on Jul 30, 2010 10:06 AM CDT up reply actions
They're gonna get Dunn
The guy we shoulda signed instead of Bradley.
"Any player who gets the opportunity to play at Wrigley should welcome it"
That would've been good too
"Any player who gets the opportunity to play at Wrigley should welcome it"
Have you seen Dunn's defense?
Say what you want about Bradley, but I was mostly pleased with his defense last season. His bat and attitude still left a lot to be desired. I would have cringed to see Adam Dunn playing right field.
RIP Ronnie James Dio (July 10, 1942 - May 16, 2010).
Who cares, he would've been 1000 times better than Bradley in every aspect of the game!!
Including knowing how many outs there were!
"Any player who gets the opportunity to play at Wrigley should welcome it"
That was a one time deal
I hate playing the role of Bradley defender here, but Dunn would have cost us way more runs playing right field than Bradley ever did. I hate to defend him, but it’s the truth in this case. Dunn is the worst defensive first baseman since Frank Thomas.
RIP Ronnie James Dio (July 10, 1942 - May 16, 2010).
by Ace Venom on Jul 30, 2010 12:29 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
agreed
…defending That Guy That Played RF Last Year feels wierd
by jesus christos on Jul 30, 2010 12:45 PM CDT up reply actions
However, Dunn...
… would have made up for those runs with his bat.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
and his OBP
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Jul 30, 2010 1:50 PM CDT up reply actions
and now that Theriot isn't our SS anymore...
we can get a firstbaseman with some power and afford to sacrifice some defense
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Jul 30, 2010 1:50 PM CDT up reply actions
Exactly...D.Lee's defense in NO way made up for his offense...or lack there of..
It’s time for Dunn, and then they don’t have to worry about that position for 3 or 4 years. ENOUGH with the “cost controlled” players. Cubs’ fans have been waiting like 3 generations for a championship. No more career minor leaguers. Ricketts said he’s gonna field a winner…a contender. Let’s see if he was blowing smoke.
Ron Santo - 8,143 ABs, .277 BA; 342 HR; 1331 RBI = NO Hall of Fame?
Brooks Robinson - 10,654 ABs, .267 BA; 268 HR; 1357 RBI = Hall of Fame.
Any more questions ?
What position would Dunn have played?
You have no idea what you are talking about.
by JSB on Jul 30, 2010 10:21 AM CDT via mobile up reply actions
RF
and I know what I’m talking about so don’t go there.
"Any player who gets the opportunity to play at Wrigley should welcome it"
Dunn had to be moved to first base
He couldn’t cut it with his defense in left field. People would have wanted to run Dunn out of town if he played right field at Wrigley.
RIP Ronnie James Dio (July 10, 1942 - May 16, 2010).
I've been watching Kila's stat's for a few years now
he is a hitter I have no doubt And, one always faces the question concerning how it translates into the majors. When I a saw him called up 2 years ago, I was, “Alright let’s see it!” and then he barely played. I like his plate discipline, something the Cubs need.
And in the end, if we do no resign Lee, who plays first? Our outfield will be Soriano, Byrd, Colvin. (unless Hendry signes more outfielders because that worked so well this year). The free agent crop of 1B is nothing special. I agree with Al, I think this is worth a shot.
The 2010 Randy Hundley Fantasy Camp ruled!!!!
As you said....He came up before and the horrid Royals team didn't play him....
And that would be different with the Cubs this season how?
We all know Lou will play Lee most of the time.
It does not matter that Lee is not at his best, and probably will not be here next year.
I think the real challenge is
let’s say we get Kila, who cares for what.
what matters is what Hendry does in the off season? Over pay for a middling 1B just like the royals? Now Kila is in the same situation, so what did obtaining him gain the Cubs…nothing.
The 2010 Randy Hundley Fantasy Camp ruled!!!!
by VegasCubFan on Jul 30, 2010 10:00 AM CDT up reply actions
If the Cubs got Ka`aihue
One would presume that Hendry wouldn’t then overpay for a middling 1B. One would assume that if we traded for Ka`aihue, it would be with the intention of playing him at 1B. Thus, Hendry would use what would probably be limited offseason resources on the rotation, 2B, and/or bullpen.
I’m guessing that Ka`aihue is an unlikely acquisition. For one thing, because there may be an opening in the Royals lineup for him next year. And for another, there is nothing to suggest that Hendry would target another high-OBP guy after the Fukudome fiasco (and Ka`aihue doesn’t project to necessarily be a big OPS guy in MLB).
But in the hypothetical that Hendry does indeed trade for him, that would lead me to believe he actually WANTS him at 1B.
by SouthernCub on Jul 30, 2010 10:10 AM CDT up reply actions
FYI if Victorino is the "flyin" Hawaiian
would Ka`aihue’s great plate discipline make him the “Walkin” Hawaiin?
"Lou Piniella's been a great manager for a long time and I stand by him completely"
Jim Hendry
by Doggie Stalker on Jul 30, 2010 10:05 AM CDT reply actions
No, he shall be called
The Hawaiian Punch for the pop in his bat.
www.facebook.com/craighudak
by Craig in South Bend on Jul 30, 2010 10:06 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
+1
The 2010 Randy Hundley Fantasy Camp ruled!!!!
by VegasCubFan on Jul 30, 2010 10:06 AM CDT up reply actions
...
"Fasten those seatbelts!"-Pat Hughes
by katie casey on Jul 30, 2010 10:41 AM CDT up reply actions
Lol. Nice.
Everyone's thought process with this team is that the playoffs start now. Tomorrow is going to be Day One of our run to October.
-- Marlon Byrd
by Ryno Runner on Jul 30, 2010 11:29 AM CDT up reply actions
HAHA...very nice Katie.
A lovely story:
One day, long, long ago, there lived a woman who didn't whine, nag or bitch. That would be me....
But that was a long time ago and it was just that one day.
The end
There's no way this happens but I would love
Lilly, Theriot, Vitters for Kemp.
"That's life, that's what all the people say.
You're riding high in April,
Shot down in May
But I know I'm gonna change that tune,
When I'm back on top, back on top in June."
- Big boy Frankie
That's a horrible, horrible trade.
Why would you love a trade like that, which totally torpedoes this team?
www.facebook.com/craighudak
by Craig in South Bend on Jul 30, 2010 10:12 AM CDT up reply actions
how would it torpedo this team?
"That's life, that's what all the people say.
You're riding high in April,
Shot down in May
But I know I'm gonna change that tune,
When I'm back on top, back on top in June."
- Big boy Frankie
by lexmarklover on Jul 30, 2010 10:13 AM CDT up reply actions
It wouldn't.
But the Dodgers would never do it.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
You're sacrificing a player who could very well contribute to our future line up
a pitcher who could remain as a solid piece of the rotation, and, well, Theriot, for ANOTHER OF who is starting to love his celeb status and is going to command a boatload of money in 2013. He’s young though, and he hits a ton, but this team already has Byrd and Colvin, and Soriano isn’t going anywhere anytime soon. Maybe torpedo is a bit strong, but I don’t think it would happen and I don’t think he’d be a good fit.
www.facebook.com/craighudak
by Craig in South Bend on Jul 30, 2010 10:21 AM CDT up reply actions
Wait
We don’t want to give up 2 players that may not even be on the roster next year and a prospect who has struggled in AA this year for Matt Kemp through 2013? Because we have Colvin and Byrd?
Byrd is going to be cheaper than Kemp
and Colvin needs to be in the OF full time. Byrd has also proven himself to be an important part of the clubhouse. With Soriano being unmovable, that makes the OF fairly locked down.
www.facebook.com/craighudak
by Craig in South Bend on Jul 30, 2010 10:32 AM CDT up reply actions
You would really take
Colvin over Matt Kemp?
I disagree with the “OF is full” anyway because I think Soriano could move to 1st. I know you don’t think that, as you stated below, but I think it would be fine.
You really think Soriano would play well at 1st?
Really? Come on now…
www.facebook.com/craighudak
by Craig in South Bend on Jul 30, 2010 10:41 AM CDT up reply actions
Yep.
1B is really pretty easy to play. There have been plenty of players who made the transition to first once they get older. And he’s played in the infield before. No, he wasn’t a great 2B, but 1B is the easiest position to field.
But that doesn't mean it's EASY.
by Steven Schweickert on Jul 30, 2010 10:53 AM CDT up reply actions
It's easy
if you are an everyday major league baseball player. Especially if you have the whole off-season to prepare.
Again...
if it’s so easy, why do teams specifically look for players to play 1B? Why not just move their OF into 1B and sign OF to replace them?
www.facebook.com/craighudak
by Craig in South Bend on Jul 30, 2010 10:57 AM CDT up reply actions
Because
generally first basemen are some of the best hitters on the team and if you can get a better hitter than your corner OFs then you will and stick them at 1B.
Well, how about...
as a corner infielder, having approximate reflexes to a 3B especially when playing in on a bunt, covering the line like a 3B, being able to stretch to reel in hard yet inaccurate throws from Starlin Castro and Aramis Ramirez, and keep your foot on the bag at the same time, knowing when to run to the bag and when to trust your pitcher or 2B to cover… There are certain things that can be taught, but there are certain things that can’t, like height and athleticism – you know, the underappreciated stuff that a 1B like Derrek has brought us in his career.
Because you’re essentially the groundout backstop, 1B is a very important defensive position for athleticism and size. I would not trust Alfonso Soriano to do that for the Cubs.
by Steven Schweickert on Jul 30, 2010 11:02 AM CDT up reply actions
Well, how about...
as a corner infielder, having approximate reflexes to a 3B especially when playing in on a bunt, covering the line like a 3B, being able to stretch to reel in hard yet inaccurate throws from Starlin Castro and Aramis Ramirez, and keep your foot on the bag at the same time, knowing when to run to the bag and when to trust your pitcher or 2B to cover… There are certain things that can be taught, but there are certain things that can’t, like height and athleticism – you know, the underappreciated stuff that a 1B like Derrek has brought us in his career.
Because you’re essentially the groundout backstop, 1B is a very important defensive position for athleticism and size. I would not trust Alfonso Soriano to do that for the Cubs.
by Steven Schweickert on Jul 30, 2010 11:03 AM CDT up reply actions
what are you basing that on?
I always find it funny when people make claims like this.
by HuskerCorner on Jul 30, 2010 11:12 AM CDT up reply actions
There is a thing called the defensive spectrum.
1st base is the easiest position to play on the spectrum thus if a player can play any other position it is assumed he can play 1st.
by Acapulco Taco Pie on Jul 30, 2010 7:18 PM CDT up reply actions
I'm sorry
but it’s crazy talk to think Soriano could play 1B. Also, if 1B were so easy to play, why do so many players have trouble moving there?
You’ve said there’s been plenty of players to make that move though, so go ahead and list them.
www.facebook.com/craighudak
by Craig in South Bend on Jul 30, 2010 10:54 AM CDT up reply actions
No matter how many I find
you are going to claim it is a small sample, but here are a few notables:
Albert Pujols
Lance Bekman
Victor Martinez
Micky Mantle
Actually,
just on reading this Miguel Cabrera, Paul Konerko, and Troy Glaus immediately came to mind. I’ll let the reader decide for themselves about how good they actually are there, but still.
But personally, I would not like to see Soriano at first base.
by Damen Jackson on Jul 30, 2010 11:09 AM CDT up reply actions
would he hop every time someone hit a grounder to him?
by HuskerCorner on Jul 30, 2010 11:14 AM CDT up reply actions
yeah
he might have trouble keeping his foot on the bag too.
by circuitclout on Jul 30, 2010 11:29 AM CDT up reply actions
I would like to not
even have to think about Soriano at that position. Happiness would be him playing a league-average left field for the Cubs over the next few seasons, and then having them eat enough money to send him off to a quiet retirement in the AL.
by Damen Jackson on Jul 30, 2010 11:16 AM CDT up reply actions
I'm an idiot and need to learn to read.
I read “…would like to see Soriano at first base.” My apologies.
...
Pujols and Berkman weren’t spur of the moment “Let’s do this overnight cause it sounds fun” moves. Pujols has been there for several years, and Berkman’s been sliding over there on a more permanent basis.
We’re talking about taking a guy (Soriano) who’s never played the position, has played bad 2B and just about as bad LF, and sticking him at 1B and thinking he’ll play a passable 1B defense that doesn’t result in at least 50 balls in the dugout?
Fundamentally sound player, higher chance of working. Where have we seen that in Soriano anyway?
by Steven Schweickert on Jul 30, 2010 11:13 AM CDT up reply actions
Who moved due to serious knee injuries.
Had that not happened, he’d likely have remained a shortstop for several more years. They even tried him in the outfield for a time.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
Harwell?
Everyone's thought process with this team is that the playoffs start now. Tomorrow is going to be Day One of our run to October.
-- Marlon Byrd
by Ryno Runner on Jul 30, 2010 11:32 AM CDT up reply actions
Victor Martinez and Berkman will be free agents next year....
I’d like to have either one of them
If you place Kemp into their outfield right now, there wouldn't be any question who the best player is
If you can add a player with that kind of potential, you do it and make changes as you go along.
"That's life, that's what all the people say.
You're riding high in April,
Shot down in May
But I know I'm gonna change that tune,
When I'm back on top, back on top in June."
- Big boy Frankie
by lexmarklover on Jul 30, 2010 10:48 AM CDT up reply actions
Sometimes the best players don't make for the best team.
www.facebook.com/craighudak
by Craig in South Bend on Jul 30, 2010 10:54 AM CDT up reply actions
What do you think is Vitters's upside?
"That's life, that's what all the people say.
You're riding high in April,
Shot down in May
But I know I'm gonna change that tune,
When I'm back on top, back on top in June."
- Big boy Frankie
by lexmarklover on Jul 30, 2010 10:59 AM CDT up reply actions
THAT'S your argument against Kemp?
good lord man.
by HuskerCorner on Jul 30, 2010 11:11 AM CDT up reply actions
Yeah... that's what I took from it also.
I’m lost as well.
Like I said
Byrd is going to be cheaper to keep than Kemp, doesn’t come with the same baggage, and is starting to appear to be somewhat of a leader. Then you have Colvin his should be a solid part of this team’s future, is also cost controlled, and is part of a younger core of this team. Soriano and Fukudome appear to not be going anywhere anytime soon. Adding someone like Kemp to the fold means that Byrd or Colvin gets bumped. The same goes for any other OF out there right now. This team does not need more OF, and it’s foolish to think you could simply take one of the existing OF and just move him to 1B.
Then you have who would be involved in this trade, which isn’t going to happen anyway. Trading away Vitters leaves you with a potential hole at 3B when the time comes for Aramis to move on. They spent all of this time developing Vitters, who still has a lot of potential despite the season he’s having this year, and they’re supposed to get rid of him? There’s other players in the minors who could be moved up, and then you have players being put into positions that they’re not used to. You’re also trading away Lilly, who may not be here next year, but given how Ted has excelled in Chicago, I can’t see him wanting to leave if he isn’t traded. Theriot, well, who cares about Theriot. So it’s really a 2 for 1 that isn’t going to happen anyway, and despite that, I would still like to see it not happen just to not have more players with fat contracts.
www.facebook.com/craighudak
by Craig in South Bend on Jul 30, 2010 10:52 AM CDT up reply actions
Kemp has baggage? That seems like an extreme exaggeration to try to justify your opinion.
As far as Colvin being part of the team’s “young core,” Kemp is only one year old and a far superior player. It’s highly unlikely Colvin is going to have a better career from this point forward than Kemp. The Cubs have a dearth of starting pitching and shouldn’t be interested in keeping Lilly. The Cubs are the team that would be lucky to get this deal, there is no way the Dodgers would do this deal because it favors the Cubs too much.
by Acapulco Taco Pie on Jul 30, 2010 7:28 PM CDT up reply actions
Uhhh
Forgive me but Josh Vitters is more likely to never contribute anything to the Cubs major league club than he is to be a middle of the order run producer. He’s a loooonnnngggg way away from being the latter and much, much closer to being the former.
"When the day comes with that last winning run and I'm crying and covered in beer. I'll look to the sky and know I was right to think someday we'll go all the way." - Vedder
I basically agree...
I’m far from writing off Vitters as a prospect, but he’s yet to do anything to solidify the notion that he’s going to be a middle-of-the-order bat. Right now, it’s not even a certainly that he’s going to be an MLB bat.
He’s still young, but there should be no assumption that he’s going to make it until he shows something at a level above A ball.
by SouthernCub on Jul 30, 2010 11:55 AM CDT up reply actions
Claiming that trade would TORPEDO the team is just nuts.
We could resign Lilly if we really wanted to, so you’re basically talking about Vitters for Kemp.
That’s a no brainer
by HuskerCorner on Jul 30, 2010 11:07 AM CDT up reply actions
maybe replace
Vitters with Byrd and have the Cubs throw in a bunch of money.
DEJESUS!!!
That at least solves the flood of OF players.
www.facebook.com/craighudak
by Craig in South Bend on Jul 30, 2010 10:22 AM CDT up reply actions
Colvin or Kemp at first would also solve that problem.
"That's life, that's what all the people say.
You're riding high in April,
Shot down in May
But I know I'm gonna change that tune,
When I'm back on top, back on top in June."
- Big boy Frankie
by lexmarklover on Jul 30, 2010 10:26 AM CDT up reply actions
You can't just stick players at 1B
and expect them to be good there, just because they play another position well.
www.facebook.com/craighudak
by Craig in South Bend on Jul 30, 2010 10:28 AM CDT up reply actions
People have brought up the idea of Colvin to first base.
And yes, I expect him to be good if he is at first next year.
"That's life, that's what all the people say.
You're riding high in April,
Shot down in May
But I know I'm gonna change that tune,
When I'm back on top, back on top in June."
- Big boy Frankie
by lexmarklover on Jul 30, 2010 10:45 AM CDT up reply actions
yes and the people who have done that don't realize he's played VERY few games at first
by HuskerCorner on Jul 30, 2010 11:08 AM CDT up reply actions
wasn't that his main position in college?
"That's life, that's what all the people say.
You're riding high in April,
Shot down in May
But I know I'm gonna change that tune,
When I'm back on top, back on top in June."
- Big boy Frankie
by lexmarklover on Jul 30, 2010 11:14 AM CDT up reply actions
No, I believe he was a CF in college...
He has played a handful of games at 1B, but it has not been his main position at college or in the minors.
by SouthernCub on Jul 30, 2010 12:02 PM CDT up reply actions
Honestly, this Colvin to first thing is like a game of telephone
Someone came up with the idea of moving him to first because of the plethora of outfielders we have. Then it was a good idea because he played some first base there in college, then it became he played a bunch of games at first, and now people are thinking it was his primary position in college.
Moving a young, above average defensive outfielder to first base simply because no other options are readily available RIGHT NOW is just so…so bad.
by HuskerCorner on Jul 30, 2010 12:06 PM CDT up reply actions
Agreed...
further, the entire premise of moving him to first was because he wasn’t getting regular PT in the OF. That’s no longer an issue, as the Cubs have benched Fukudome.
by SouthernCub on Jul 30, 2010 12:10 PM CDT up reply actions
High School
He was a first baseman in HS. He played a few games at first as an underclassman at Clemson.
by Josh Timmers on Jul 30, 2010 12:37 PM CDT up reply actions
georgeofman: Lilly and Theriot to Dodgers? Could be for Billingsly and Dewitt. Stay tuned.
Are you serious …..?
"That's life, that's what all the people say.
You're riding high in April,
Shot down in May
But I know I'm gonna change that tune,
When I'm back on top, back on top in June."
- Big boy Frankie
No
georgeofman: More on Cubs& Billingsly. Dodgers unlikely to give him up. Too valuable to them.
Clearly not serious. Didn’t make sense from the moment it was posted.
ok yeah haha
"That's life, that's what all the people say.
You're riding high in April,
Shot down in May
But I know I'm gonna change that tune,
When I'm back on top, back on top in June."
- Big boy Frankie
by lexmarklover on Jul 30, 2010 10:24 AM CDT up reply actions
Too bad.
I’d have made that deal, much as I like Ted Lilly.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
Anyone
would’ve made that deal. That deal was so incredibly one-sided it’s not even funny.
good example of why never to get your news from the twitterverse
Anyone who thought about that for 2 seconds could see why that trade would never happen.
by Orval Overall on Jul 30, 2010 11:48 AM CDT up reply actions
I'm wondering why the guy even tweeted that. It was ridiculous 10 seconds after I read it.
by HuskerCorner on Jul 30, 2010 12:09 PM CDT up reply actions
You read it - that was why it was tweeted
Twitter operates at the intersection between narcississism and ADHD. See the t-shirt at Despair.com.
ha
if that’s true, they should jump on it. Lilly for billingsly? That’d be ridiculous.
Done. Next?
Would be my response to that. That is pure insanity for the Dodgers.
"When the day comes with that last winning run and I'm crying and covered in beer. I'll look to the sky and know I was right to think someday we'll go all the way." - Vedder
I think it was awfully sweet of him
to be wearing my initials on his cap.
"Fasten those seatbelts!"-Pat Hughes
Nevermind, the Sox trade cannot be for Zambrano
Z cannot make them considerably better by tonight, I guess the Dunn idea could be true
Why would the Royals trade him to us?
The question is- do the Royals think he’s their 1b of the future? I can’t imagine after making one mistake in regard to him, that they would ship him off to another team. It’s a nice idea though, and would give the Cubs a nice lefty in the middle of their lineup. In addition, he adds something the team so desperately needs….patience at the plate.
"In order to have a winner, the team must have a feeling of unity; every player must put the team first- ahead of personal glory" - motivational sign at Halas Hall.
Maybe not 1B of the future...
but perhaps he can be their 1B for a year or two and then be traded (if he pans out).
by SouthernCub on Jul 30, 2010 10:40 AM CDT up reply actions
Question is - Do the Royals see him as their 1b of the future
1100+ ABs at AAA??
"They come to see me strike out, hit a home run, or run into a fence. I try to accommodate them at least one way every game." - Gorman Thomas
by RiskyBusiness on Jul 30, 2010 11:37 AM CDT up reply actions
I just said that they may not see him as their 1B of the future
by SouthernCub on Jul 30, 2010 11:57 AM CDT up reply actions
I agree
"They come to see me strike out, hit a home run, or run into a fence. I try to accommodate them at least one way every game." - Gorman Thomas
by RiskyBusiness on Jul 30, 2010 12:04 PM CDT up reply actions
It's widely known in KC
that Dayton Moore seems to take strange, Danny Ainge-esque likes and dislikes to players. Kila and Mike Aviles are on the dislike list, though Aviles has overcome by becoming a fan favorite by playing his ass off (very Marlon Byrd of him). John Buck was on the naughty list too, and now he’s an All-star in Toronto. Conversly, Jason Kendall will never do wrong in DM’s eyes, and he has the incredible number of starts to prove it. I don’t think Kila will ever get a shot with the Royals, and he deserves it, hopefully with the Cubs.
"Let's not get giggly." - Lou
I remember Danny Ainge
as a Blue Jay. He’s someone Dayton Moore would love to get.
by Josh Timmers on Jul 30, 2010 12:39 PM CDT up reply actions
Agreed...
…and that is why we should trade Theriot and prospects for Kila and Aviles! Who’s with me!?!?!
Note: This will never happen. Sigh.
just for reference
guys that have had an OPS over 1.000 in the PCL since 2007….
2007: Nelson Cruz, Mitch Jones, Geovany Soto, Nathan Haynes, Brian Myrow, Joe Dillon, John Lindsey
2008: Russell Branyan, Micah Hoffpauir, Jeff Clement, Nelson Cruz, Travis Ishikawa, Paul McAnulty, Jason DuBois, Sean Rodriguez, Joe Mather, Jaime D’Antona, Mike Aviles
2009: Jake Fox, Travis Snider, Tommy Everidge, Brandon Allen, Carlos Gonzalez, John Bowker, Hector Luna, Sean Rodriguez, Mitch Jones
2010: John Lindsey, John Hester, Kila Ka’aihue, Xavier Paul, Alex Gordon, Dexter Fowler
How many of those guys had the OBA that Ka'aihue has had?
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
since i knew you'd come back with that
Top 10 in walks over the same period, with leaders obp listed:
2007: Andy Tracy (387 obp), Jason Botts, Daric Barton, Justin Leone, Royce Huffman, Chip Ambres, Craig Stansberry, Callix Crabbe, Joe Koshansky, Val Pascucci
2008: Brian Myrow (451), Val Pascucci, Matt Antonelli, Dallas McPherson, Josh Whitesell, Brad Nelson, Scott McClain, Ryan Roberts, Justin Leone, Brian Bernier
2009: Ruben Gotay (429), Kila Ka’aihue, Mike McCoy, John Bowker, Val Pascucci, Esteban German, AJ Ellis, Joe Koshansky, Brad Coon, Brandon Boggs
2010: Kila Ka’aihue (462), Ruben Gotay, Brandon Boggs, Brandon Allen, Chris Carter, Brock Bond, Doug Deeds, Matt Miller, Bobby Scales, Adam Heether
yes, Ka’aihue has a higer obp than others in years past but from this sample gives credence to the belief that a high walk rate in the PCL isn’t necessarily a precursor to MLB success.
by circuitclout on Jul 30, 2010 11:25 AM CDT up reply actions
myrow
has a career 302/415/503 line at AAA in 2473 PA’s…
by circuitclout on Jul 30, 2010 11:31 AM CDT up reply actions
I was more surprised about Bobby Scales than anything.
Everyone's thought process with this team is that the playoffs start now. Tomorrow is going to be Day One of our run to October.
-- Marlon Byrd
by Ryno Runner on Jul 30, 2010 11:34 AM CDT up reply actions
I'm very familar with his travels
I just didn’t realize that he was sustaining that level as recently as 2008. I saw him quite a bit then, and I can tell you for a fact that his hitting wasn’t major-league quality. No biggie, but it was just one of those names that really stood out.
by Damen Jackson on Jul 30, 2010 11:36 AM CDT up reply actions
However...
…. one of Kila’s big years was split between AA and AAA.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
Dodger want more $$
Jeff Fletcher of AOL Fanhouse reports that the Dodgers are waiting for Cubs to throw in more money in a trade for Ted Lilly.
Lilly is owed over $4 million for the rest of the season. With teams dropping out of the mix for the left-hander by the minute, the Cubs might have to make some concessions by Saturday’s deadline.
"Any player who gets the opportunity to play at Wrigley should welcome it"
Then
Tell the Dodgers to find someone else. Next?
"When the day comes with that last winning run and I'm crying and covered in beer. I'll look to the sky and know I was right to think someday we'll go all the way." - Vedder
If Chad Billingsley comes in return?
I’d do it in a heartbeat. You’d definitely get your money’s worth.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
If the Dodgers can't afford to take on the $4 million
then a deal isn’t going to be done. Unless it really was Billingsley and Dewitt in return
by HuskerCorner on Jul 30, 2010 12:11 PM CDT up reply actions
I think this has more to do with the McCourt divorce...
…then anything else. Anything involving money is going to make things tough. I’m sure they can “afford” to take on the contract.
I guess I meant, if they aren't WILLING to take on that $4 Million, the deal aint getting done
We’re not going to trade Lilly for C level prospects AND eat the rest of his contract
by HuskerCorner on Jul 30, 2010 4:22 PM CDT up reply actions
Edwin Jackson has been told he's been traded to the White Sox.
"Any player who gets the opportunity to play at Wrigley should welcome it"
White Sox confirm they got RHP Edwin Jackson from Dbacks for right-hander Daniel Hudson and lefty David Holmberg.
1 minute ago via txt
"Any player who gets the opportunity to play at Wrigley should welcome it"
I hope that this is a flip
otherwise, I’m not sure that I follow this one.
by Damen Jackson on Jul 30, 2010 12:13 PM CDT up reply actions
Supposedly the flip is Jackson to WSH for Dunn
But all the talk on WSCR is “Hold the phones, Kenny’s doing something big!!”
But I can’t see Jackson being a flippable piece for any bigger deal…
by Steven Schweickert on Jul 30, 2010 12:19 PM CDT up reply actions
Plus it was for Hudson...
…who you figure would be more flippable to the Nationals then Jackson. I was baffled by this. Maybe Cooper can work some magic and bring back 2009 Edwin Jackson?
If we trade Theriot to ANYONE for ANYTHING I will consider the entire season a success.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Jul 30, 2010 12:08 PM CDT reply actions
get ready for yet another disappointment.
by HuskerCorner on Jul 30, 2010 12:13 PM CDT up reply actions
Take his salary and throw in a pack of used chewing gum
Or skip the gum and the Cubs will throw in Nady
I don't think the Cubs will trade for Kila
While Hendry can be a good trader, I don’t think h can multi-task like this. I think he’s either a buyer or seller, but no likely to be both at the same time.
"They come to see me strike out, hit a home run, or run into a fence. I try to accommodate them at least one way every game." - Gorman Thomas
Trading for Ka'aihue is a good idea, potentially
But you would need a backup plan, and a strong potential platoon partner. You would also have to have the institutional gonads to tell the media and fans, “So what if he’s hitting .238?” and explain the value of his walks and slugging.
In the majors, he’s going to see more strikes and curveballs, and it’s fairly rare to see this kind of hitter make a living in the bigs. But it certainly happens, and he wouldn’t be expensive. He’s on the Royals’ 40-man roster, so who knows, he could easily end up on waivers. I have no idea what his status is otherwise.
I'd be willing to entertain
Playing Soto at 1B against lefties if Chirinos or Castillo is ready to help the big league club next year and Kila struggled against lefties. It would keep Soto’s legs fresh and allow us to give him more PAs than just resting him once or twice a week.
Not full time
One or two starts a week max. He leads the team in wOBA, so I don’t mind giving him an occasional start at 1B to rest his legs as opposed to just benching him once or twice a week.
This was discussed in a fan post before. Yes, he’s most valuable at catcher. But that doesn’t mean spotting him at first destroys his value (see Victor Martinez). He leads the team in OPS and wOBA (and it’s not even close). He’s hitting like an MLB first baseman this season.
But you have to take him out from behind the plate for 40-50 games a year or you will kill him
Catchers who catch more than 115 games a year usually don’t last long.
You'll know how I feel about Kila
if you search for his name under my profile. Bottom line is that he is worth a flyer if indeed he can be had for cheap. History suggests he can be, as the Royals do not seem to value OBP in general, they’ve consistently failed to find ways to get him MLB playing time, and they’ve made several bad trades and FA signings the last couple of years.
Realistically, Moore should realize that unless a team is willing to overpay, he should keep Kila and give him a shot at 1B/DH next year (with Guillen finally gone). I’m hoping that he doesn’t realize this and discards him now. If I were Hendry, my selling point would be that I’m willing to give some value for his AAA numbers, and you might not get that next year if you bring him up and he struggles after a call-up. With Hosmer behind (and Moustakas and Gordon there as options for 1B/DH next year), Moore might be willing to get what he can for Kila now.
I’d still be willing to give the Royals value for Kila (I think Carpenter and a lesser piece would be good value for the Royals). Even better if we can get him for spare arms in the organization.
Very well done, Al...
I agree with this 100%. Guys with above average power AND great batting eyes don’t grow on trees.
I’d be hesitant, however, to trade someone who could potentially become a number 3 starter in the organization, such as Jay Jackson or Archer.
Proud recipient of a hot dog shot from the Iowa Cubs hot dog gun.
Kila looks more like he's staying in KC
Royals general manager Dayton Moore, perhaps inadvertently, fueled the fire after the deal that sent left fielder Scott Podsednik to the Dodgers. In discussing possible roster moves, Moore noted that Triple-A slugger Kila Ka’aihue likely would join the Major League club soon.
“It’s important for us to get Kila on our club, and we feel like that’ll happen at some point very shortly,” Moore said. “I’m not saying it’ll happen tomorrow, but we expect it to happen soon.”
"They come to see me strike out, hit a home run, or run into a fence. I try to accommodate them at least one way every game." - Gorman Thomas
Yeah, looks like we missed the boat on that one.
Proud recipient of a hot dog shot from the Iowa Cubs hot dog gun.
Then again...
The Royals do have the very talented Eric Hosmer in their system.
Proud recipient of a hot dog shot from the Iowa Cubs hot dog gun.
Hosmer's not MLB ready
He’s probably 2 years away.
Proud recipient of a hot dog shot from the Iowa Cubs hot dog gun.
Doesn't mean the Cubs couldn't trade for him in the offseason.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
Hendry is in a perpetual "win now" mindset. He's going to find a "proven veteran" because we're only a couple players away from being able to compete for the divison.
::slams head on desk::
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Jul 30, 2010 2:28 PM CDT up reply actions
Is that why he brought up Castro and Colvin... or Cashner?
… to start “proven veterans?”
I’m not a fan of some of the moves of the last three seasons in this organization, but you have to admire the progress of some of the Cubs’ youngsters.
Proud recipient of a hot dog shot from the Iowa Cubs hot dog gun.
Colvin made the roster out of the spring because he had a great spring, he wasn't "brought up"
Castro was brought up as a panic move when the team was struggling and happened to work out.
Cashner was brought up because we had no one else.
Anyone trying to argue that Hendry ISN’T in win now mode needs his head examined
by HuskerCorner on Jul 30, 2010 2:39 PM CDT up reply actions
Hendry isn't the GM so that we can lose ballgames...
He’s the GM to make sure we can win games and keep butts in the bleachers. For this, I can’t blame him much.
Proud recipient of a hot dog shot from the Iowa Cubs hot dog gun.
You can't? He's not doing his job well.
But if you think that is the entire job description of a general manager, then I at least see why you don’t understand that
by HuskerCorner on Jul 30, 2010 4:24 PM CDT up reply actions
It's why he signed Aaron Miles, Xavier Nady, and resigned Bob Howry.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Jul 30, 2010 2:39 PM CDT up reply actions
Jim Edmonds wasn't a bad signing...
So 1 out of 4 ain’t bad.
Proud recipient of a hot dog shot from the Iowa Cubs hot dog gun.
I forgot to mention the Phil Nevin and Aaron Heilman trades.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Jul 30, 2010 3:06 PM CDT up reply actions
Jacque Jones, Milton Bradley
cough, cough
by HuskerCorner on Jul 30, 2010 4:24 PM CDT up reply actions
Per Jayson Stark
Sounds like RedSox have checked in on every reliever between Beacon St. & Belgium. Made a run at Sean Marshall of Cubs. Shot down.
"Any player who gets the opportunity to play at Wrigley should welcome it"
Marshall or Marmol for Lars Anderson?
… or Jed Lowrie? Yes please!
The Red Sox are too smart to trade young players, though.
Proud recipient of a hot dog shot from the Iowa Cubs hot dog gun.
why would you want lowrie?
dudes a walking hospital ward
by jesus christos on Jul 30, 2010 2:52 PM CDT up reply actions
Did you say Ward? We got a chance to bring Daryle Ward back?
Gitterdone Jimbo!!!
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
I donno... maybe his career .380 OBP
…has something to do with it.
Proud recipient of a hot dog shot from the Iowa Cubs hot dog gun.
They talked to Sean's agent
on CTL last night and they asked if Sean would like to be traded so he could have a chance to start and he said Sean loves what he is doing right now. He loves the where he is and has adopted Chicago as his home. He does not want to be traded.
Sean, Lilly, Lee (who knows who else) all want to stay a Cub. Must be something within the organization that they all like.
A lovely story:
One day, long, long ago, there lived a woman who didn't whine, nag or bitch. That would be me....
But that was a long time ago and it was just that one day.
The end
I know that.
A lovely story:
One day, long, long ago, there lived a woman who didn't whine, nag or bitch. That would be me....
But that was a long time ago and it was just that one day.
The end
Joel Sherman says Padres might be interested in Fukudome
by LouPiniellaIsRetiring on Jul 30, 2010 2:48 PM CDT reply actions
That's not what it says.
It says:
They do not have the same internal answers for a bat, specifically a lefty-hitting outfielder. That is why they are still pursuing that even after obtaining Miguel Tejada yesterday. Kansas City’s Rick Ankiel and the Cubs’ Kosuke Fukudome are both available, though Fukudome’s $12 million pricetag next year is probably too much of an obstacle even with Chicago willing to add dollars.
It says they’re interested in a LH hitting OF. The writer then says Ankiel and Fukudome are available. There’s nothing that says the Padres have specifically expressed interest in Fukudome.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
The article clearly says that they're interested in Tyler Colvin!
Proud recipient of a hot dog shot from the Iowa Cubs hot dog gun.
Yeah, and Jim Edmonds.
And, I suppose, every other LH hitting outfielder in baseball.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
to play where exactly?
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Jul 30, 2010 3:11 PM CDT up reply actions
I think you can imply that they would be interested
by LouPiniellaIsRetiring on Jul 30, 2010 3:00 PM CDT up reply actions
You can? How?
The writer mentioned two LH hitting outfielders with NO connection to anyone in Padres management saying anything about it. He basically made it up.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
Again the Cubs are pretty well known to be shopping Fuku
and the Padres are interested in a left handed bat . I think you can imply they MIGHT be interested.
by LouPiniellaIsRetiring on Jul 30, 2010 3:14 PM CDT up reply actions
If we eat $, maybe.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Jul 30, 2010 3:18 PM CDT up reply actions
They couldn't find two colder hitter than those two!
Are they that desperate? Geez, that’s rock bottom.
"Any player who gets the opportunity to play at Wrigley should welcome it"
They're not desperate...just chronically cheap.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Jul 30, 2010 3:47 PM CDT up reply actions
Also Cubs have talked to Reds about Ted Lilly and Reds aren't on no trade list
by LouPiniellaIsRetiring on Jul 30, 2010 3:03 PM CDT reply actions
Would they trade Lilly within the division?
Proud recipient of a hot dog shot from the Iowa Cubs hot dog gun.
Why not? He's FA after this year and it's not like the Reds are gonna be battling the Cubs for the division.
Ron Santo - 8,143 ABs, .277 BA; 342 HR; 1331 RBI = NO Hall of Fame?
Brooks Robinson - 10,654 ABs, .267 BA; 268 HR; 1357 RBI = Hall of Fame.
Any more questions ?
He's a Type A free agent...
We’ll get some pretty hefty draft compensation if he leaves, and even offering Lilly arbitration for $14 million or so, he’ll likely be worth that sort of money next season. If he turns it down, we get the draft picks, if not then we get a very good left handed starter who we could flip if we needed to next season.
No reason to dump him, but Al and others have said as much over and over on this site.
Proud recipient of a hot dog shot from the Iowa Cubs hot dog gun.
Does it really matter?
Lilly only has a one year contract it’s not like you’ll be going up against ted lilly in a pennant race.
by LouPiniellaIsRetiring on Jul 30, 2010 3:05 PM CDT up reply actions
Beat ya...lol
Ron Santo - 8,143 ABs, .277 BA; 342 HR; 1331 RBI = NO Hall of Fame?
Brooks Robinson - 10,654 ABs, .267 BA; 268 HR; 1357 RBI = Hall of Fame.
Any more questions ?
NO MORE HOWRY!
Cubs officially reinstated Carlos Zambrano from the restricted list, granted Bob Howry his unconditional release.
"Any player who gets the opportunity to play at Wrigley should welcome it"
baby steps...
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Jul 30, 2010 4:26 PM CDT up reply actions
>Stands and applauses<
Ron Santo - 8,143 ABs, .277 BA; 342 HR; 1331 RBI = NO Hall of Fame?
Brooks Robinson - 10,654 ABs, .267 BA; 268 HR; 1357 RBI = Hall of Fame.
Any more questions ?
*applaudes
Ron Santo - 8,143 ABs, .277 BA; 342 HR; 1331 RBI = NO Hall of Fame?
Brooks Robinson - 10,654 ABs, .267 BA; 268 HR; 1357 RBI = Hall of Fame.
Any more questions ?
however you spell it
Ron Santo - 8,143 ABs, .277 BA; 342 HR; 1331 RBI = NO Hall of Fame?
Brooks Robinson - 10,654 ABs, .267 BA; 268 HR; 1357 RBI = Hall of Fame.
Any more questions ?
No earlier than usual
Ron Santo - 8,143 ABs, .277 BA; 342 HR; 1331 RBI = NO Hall of Fame?
Brooks Robinson - 10,654 ABs, .267 BA; 268 HR; 1357 RBI = Hall of Fame.
Any more questions ?
Man, talk about a roller coaster ride of emotions
Hooray! No more Howry!
CRAP! Zambrano is back. Here comes the circus.
by HuskerCorner on Jul 30, 2010 4:27 PM CDT up reply actions
Front page FanShot started on this topic if you want to go there
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
How do you pronounce this guy's name?
Because if it’s pronounced like “killa” then I’m in favor based on that alone.
Actually
he played for the Rotals double A affiliate, the Northwest Arkansas Naturals, not the Wichita Wranglers in 2008.
You are correct.
Misread the stat line. He played at Wichita in 2007.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
Late to the party, but...
While Kila is not a better hitter than Butler, he is better than he has been treated by the Royals, and better than several of the commenters here would suggest.
Signing Jakobs was stupid. Kila was a better option at the time, and he wound up blocked for the season by a guy we just plain cut loose when the year was over. That’s dumb. Then, because Guillen can’t really do anything but DH, we blocked him for another year.
Kila was—oddly—labelled as having a “slider-speed bat” earlier this year, but that judgment is hard to justify when you watch him pulling good fastballs out of the park.
Now that he’s on the 25-man, we’ll see if he gets at-bats (dumping Guillen would help). If so, I expect Kila to be a regular next year. I don’t want (and don’t expect) to see him traded, but he’s got value if he is. His patience is obvious, and his power is legit, if not eye-popping. Add to that the fact that his mistreatment by the organization means that he has racked up almost no service time, and would thus be under team control through his peak years.
The odds are exceptionally good that his value exceeds his cost for the next several years.
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