but I agree, Wrigley is a monument to bad baseball

Just say I don’t think the building has anything to do with them competing, especially once the Triangle Building is built as Al says. A different building does not change the team or its legacy.

But IMO if the Blackhawks can move out of Chicago Stadium (which was just as antiquated and totally unique to hockey as Wrigley has been for decades, but never beginning to fail structurally & aesthetically) to United Center, then there’s no reason the Cubs could never move out of Wrigley.

but I do sorta/kinda agree with the last part.

Frankly, if you could guarantee me the Cubs would win a World Series if they moved out of Wrigley, I’d say get the wrecking ball here yesterday.

Although it’s a different discussion now of course with lights and less daygames. I do think before it took a toll on the team, now I think it’s fuzzy whether the impact is big.

…and that’s saying something when you’re talking about a team that once employed a self-styled hypnotist to put the “whammy” on the opposing team (recounted hilariously by Bill Veeck in his autobiography).

I mean, what were they trying to prove with that stunt? At least when they had Sam Sianis “remove” the “billy goat curse” before the ’84 playoffs it was done with tongue firmly in cheek. The holy water thing, on the other hand, was just bizarre.

And while I absolutely believe that there’s a seriously negative mojo drifting through Wrigley it certainly is NOT of the supernatural variety. It’s simply built on too many years of too many failures and chokes causing WAY too much pressure to build up.

I know I’m in the minority but I absolutely believe that a new park would go a long way toward exorcising a lot of these psychological demons.

As Pete LaCock once said, “Playing for the Cubs is like playing with heavy shoes on. Once I left I had to be ’de-Cubbed”.

The Boston Red Sox managed to resurrect their fortunes at an old ballpark like Fenway, but they at least had World Series winners at that ballpark prior to 2004. The New Orleans Saints managed to overcome decades of being the biggest joke in the NFL this past season playing at a venue that saw a lot of losing teams. They changed the culture there and actually had competent individuals running things to get the players they needed to build a winner.

The Cubs managed to get things clicking in 2007 with all the right moves. Alfonso Soriano was the big acquisition and as maligned as he is, I don’t think they win back to back division titles without him. However, I think they made the wrong move getting Kosuke Fukudome prior to the 2008 season. It’s tough to blame the collapse on one player, but someone other than Derrek Lee needed to hit in the 2008 NLDS. The Cubs would have won the division last season if not for all the injuries. Even through all that, the culture never changed. There was little in the way of accountability from the top down. The culture needs to change. There’s no doubt about that.

that anyone who would prefer to keep concrete and wood over championships is a paste-eater.

They at least cheered for pennant winners and division winners.

It’s overall team management from the top… down. Over the course of time, the management of the Cubs has done a very poor job in an effort to create any sustained success.

Or the Schaumburg Cubs, the Dekalb Cubs, the Kane County Cubs, etc., etc., etc.

But beyond that, the surrounding neighborhood has put many conditions on what the Cubs can do in the way of night games, advertising, and expansion of the stadium.

So you agreed?

I think a Cubs Network could go a long way in generating revenue to help build a winner

In fact, maybe Ricketts waits to see what a Cubs Network does before testing the soil samples over in Schaumburg.

I agree the Cubs need better work out stuff, but won’t that be solved when the triangle building gets put up in less than 4 years?

Winner.

There is an approved hotel/condo complex going up across the street. The triangle building will probably be approved during this season or in the off-season. Ricketts bought into a rooftop building, outside of his Cubs ownership. And the new ST facility/hotel/shopping sprawl in AZ is nicknamed Wrigleyville West.

There is more being done today to stay in Wrigley than to move.

And if that’s true, then why did the cardinals fall 0-3 in the playoffs to the same LA dodgers in 2009?

Oh, and his whining about different game times? In the Reds’ next homestand, they have a series vs. Atlanta where the game times are 7:10, 4:10 and 1:10. Do you think he’ll be picketing the Reds’ front office?

That’s what we get for having a night game after a day game. Not much to talk about this morning.

I wouldn’t call the Reds “our biggest rival”, either.

I suspect that’s exactly what they’ll do. A tunnel like that wouldn’t be any longer than the distance players have to go to such facilities in many of the new ballparks.

He’d say the same thing about me, too.

;)

on BCB this morning, you clearly are in the minority.

he’s never gotten even a glimpse into the life of a Cub player?

is due to Wrigley Field. C’mon, I dare you.

Jazzman is arguing two totally different arguments and claiming they’re the same

as saying that upgrades at Fitch at Hohokam make sense to me, but a new ST complex does not, I think it is clear that I see the difference.

New and improved means just that.

I have no idea how it is set up at Wrigley, but at Chase Field, you have to walk by the under the stands batting cage for the home team to get to the batting cage for the visiting team. The weight rooms have a shared corridor, etc etc.

“The Cubs are very limited facility-wise and that dramatically limits the work the players can do day to day,” he said. "The clubhouse and weight room are significantly below par. They play a different schedule than everybody else in baseball. The day games are very hard to deal with day after day. Plus, when you have so many different starting times from 1:20 to 12:05 to 7:05 then play mostly all night games when you go on the road, I think the Cubs have their back against the wall.
“In Cincinnati we have a track to get loose on and three batting cages that a pinch hitter can use before he comes up to hit. (The Cubs) don’t have anywhere for a pinch hitter to get swings in before he hits.”

“(V)ery limited facility-wise” is a specific example to you? My house is very limited facility-wise. My office is very limited facility-wise.

Yes, the visitors clubhouses in many places are known to be well inferior to the home team’s (see: Iowa’s pink locker room). Is he assuming they are the same across? Again, I need something to show that he has been in the Cubs’ facilities at Wrigley or that he can be. Lasorda’s ARZ/LAD quote doesn’t tell me anything about CHC. I’m sorry I don’t take belittling and screaming as if it were truth.

Yes, the Cubs need new facilities. When the Triangle Building is built, they will get what they need.

I would add one more “era” of good baseball to your list: 2003-2008. There was one stinker in there (2006), but three playoff appearances, three more than the 1967-72 bunch had.

Once again: the ballpark isn’t the problem.

2003? 2007? 2008? Nope! Blaming Wrigley Field for the Cubs history of failure is just stupid.