Silva Ill, Leaves Game; Rest Of Cubs Play That Way, Get Swept By Rockies
by Al Yellon on Aug 1, 2010 5:30 PM CDT
in Chicago Cubs Recaps
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PrintIf not for Blake DeWitt, who had a pair of singles and an RBI double in his Cubs debut, the team's offense might have completely vanished in an 8-7 loss to the Rockies.
This loss:
- was the Cubs' fifth in a row
- dropped their record in one-run games to 13-24
- and, left them only half a game ahead of the fifth-place Astros
The offense didn't entirely disappear; the Cubs did manage eight other hits including Alfonso Soriano's 19th home run, and made it interesting in the ninth on a two-run double by Marlon Byrd. Then they came thisclose to tying the game on a fly ball by Soriano that nearly cleared the RF wall; it was caught by Dexter Fowler, who banged up his arm on the play. Fowler had to leave the game; although he was taken off in a cart, he did walk there under his own power
But Carlos Silva's departure from the game after throwing 15 pitches to four batters, and the bullpen's failure to keep the game close, pretty much put this one in the books by the fifth inning. That fifth inning seemed to take forever to arrive, largely because of the delay allowing James Russell to warm up replacing Silva. Silva's departure was chalked up to illness:
Cubs pitching coach Larry Rothschild and assistant athletic trainer Ed Halbur went to the mound to check on Silva, but he stayed in the game.
Carlos Gonzalez then singled and Troy Tulowitski hit a ground-rule RBI double, and catcher Geovany Soto signaled to the Cubs' dugout. Rothschild and head athletic trainer Mark O'Neal went to the mound, and Silva was pulled.
Who knows? It didn't seem to be his knee or his back, which have given him trouble this year. This was Silva's first start ever at Coors Field -- maybe the altitude gave him problems... although that's never been an excuse for any other pitcher, whether a Rockie or a visitor.
Carlos Zambrano was sent to pinch-hit for Russell in the top of the fourth; hitting righthanded, naturally he tried to hit the ball all the way to the Rocky Mountains and struck out. Then he put up a 53-pitch, two-inning outing in which he allowed four hits (all singles), a pair of walks and two runs. This isn't the sort of thing you really want to see when Z needs to get back to the rotation and put up two months' worth of decent starts in order to either:
- have any value to the 2011 Cubs, or
- have any value to any other team that might want to trade for him in the offseason.
Having stretched out to 53 pitches today, though, you'd think he could throw on the side during the week and maybe start over the weekend against the Reds, or in the series following at San Francisco. SF is the scene of the last really dominant start Z made, a two-hit shutout of the Giants on September 25, 2009, so maybe that would be the best place for his return to the rotation (after giving him a long-relief outing sometime during the week, if needed).
Carlos Marmol, who hadn't thrown since he posted his 19th save on the first game of the road trip (the only game the Cubs won on the six-game trip), threw an efficient scoreless bottom of the eighth.
Tonight, as a reminder, ESPN's Sunday night game features the Giants and Dodgers. That means, if you are so inclined, you can see the Dodgers debut of ex-Cub Ryan Theriot, who will be installed as LA's regular 2B (and if you believe some reports since the deal was completed yesterday, may wind up batting ninth). I can hardly wait to hear Joe Morgan extol Theriot's scrappiness.
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It should be interesting to see how Theriot plays tonight.
Would it be worth it to lurk on True Blue LA to see how they view his at-bats?
Also, Lilly is slated to start on Tuesday.
I didn't believe it last August, but it turns out that love survives.
Mount Washington conquered July 5, 2010
State high point count: 3/50
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Aug 1, 2010 5:33 PM CDT reply actions
He took about a weeks worth of pitches (for him)
n/t
The best defense is a good offense.....Lou Pinella...still hasn't managed the Cubs to a post season win. D. Lee still doesn't have a post seasson RBI for Cubs...ditto for Soriano
"It's so simple, it's unbelievable," manager Lou Piniella said. "When you score runs, you win."
Dusty Baker is the only manager in the last 100+ years to lead the Cubs to a post season series win....
"Take the hands off the clock, we're gong to be here a while"
Can we add Carlos Conzalez to the Cub Killer list?
"A dream you dream alone is only a dream. A dream you dream together is reality." John Lennon
****Gonzalez
"A dream you dream alone is only a dream. A dream you dream together is reality." John Lennon
After the last two games,
I think he should be at the top of that list.
I didn't believe it last August, but it turns out that love survives.
Mount Washington conquered July 5, 2010
State high point count: 3/50
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Aug 1, 2010 5:41 PM CDT up reply actions
He's
an everyone killer. He’s one of the top young player in the game.
DEJESUS!!!
Indeed
He has hit .500 with a 1.666 OPS against the D’Backs this year, and of course, they play each other a lot.
Why can't Jim and the brain trust behind the Cubs....
Scout, locate, sign and develop talent like that? (Not that I’m opposed to trading for it or getting it via FA)
The best defense is a good offense.....Lou Pinella...still hasn't managed the Cubs to a post season win. D. Lee still doesn't have a post seasson RBI for Cubs...ditto for Soriano
"It's so simple, it's unbelievable," manager Lou Piniella said. "When you score runs, you win."
Dusty Baker is the only manager in the last 100+ years to lead the Cubs to a post season series win....
"Take the hands off the clock, we're gong to be here a while"
I just noticed that Tulowitzki's name was misspelled in the blockquote above.
That wasn’t my doing.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
Muskrat.
Of course.
I didn't believe it last August, but it turns out that love survives.
Mount Washington conquered July 5, 2010
State high point count: 3/50
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Aug 1, 2010 5:44 PM CDT up reply actions
Why "of course"?
Does she often spell difficult names wrong?
Nobody cares about your fantasy baseball team
by carmen_fanzone on Aug 1, 2010 6:00 PM CDT up reply actions
Not a Rockies' fan by any means
but I like to see local kid Tulo do well.
I always turn to the sports section first. The sports page records people's accomplishments; the front page has nothing but man's failures.
~Earl Warren
by lookingdeadred on Aug 2, 2010 8:14 AM CDT up reply actions
hmm..
I can’t figure out if we’ve mailed it in or we just suck.
Cubs fan from Minnesota
by Shawon-o-Meter12 on Aug 1, 2010 5:50 PM CDT reply actions
Eh, scored seven runs
And no amount of effort is going to make this crap pen pitch well for eight innings.
ICYHN...
The starting staff lacks an ace and is pretty shallow right now….
The best defense is a good offense.....Lou Pinella...still hasn't managed the Cubs to a post season win. D. Lee still doesn't have a post seasson RBI for Cubs...ditto for Soriano
"It's so simple, it's unbelievable," manager Lou Piniella said. "When you score runs, you win."
Dusty Baker is the only manager in the last 100+ years to lead the Cubs to a post season series win....
"Take the hands off the clock, we're gong to be here a while"
Why is the lack of an ace such a big deal?
I’m genuinely curious. Because of the fear an ace invokes in opposing teams? Because of ace matchups (which happen rarely after April)? Because of a “guaranteed” W every 5th game (resulting in a “guaranteed” .200 season)? Because you probably won’t get swept two series in a row?
Why?
"Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have?" -Frank Chance
"If [Ruth] had [called his shot], I would have knocked him down with the next pitch." -Charlie Root
gee I dunno, I guess you could ask the Phillies, or the Yankees, or any number of teams
that have gone after guys like CC Sabathia, and Cliff Lee and Roy Halladay.
I mean CLEARLY having a pitcher who has a better than average chance to win every time he takes the mound is highly overrated.
Somewhat what you said but it is also a numbers game.
If you figure the goal is 90 wins then having an ace get 15-20 of those makes it easier for everyone else. Taking a look at the Cardinals, they have two so they can figure that Wainwright and Carpenter will get approximately 35 which is over a third of that total. It makes it a lot easier on the rest of the staff. They can live with a weaker 5th starter.
An ace also helps the pen as it gives them an expected day of rest except for maybe 1 or 2 pitchers.
both
I didn't believe it last August, but it turns out that love survives.
Mount Washington conquered July 5, 2010
State high point count: 3/50
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Aug 1, 2010 8:16 PM CDT up reply actions
Silva's last four starts:
Today: 0.1 IP, 2 ER
July 26: 5.0 IP, 1 ER
July 19: 1.0 IP, 5 ER
July 11: 1.1 IP, 6 ER
If he never throws another pitch
We still did better in the trade than the Mariners
"Lou Piniella's been a great manager for a long time and I stand by him completely"
Jim Hendry
by Doggie Stalker on Aug 1, 2010 5:55 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
I'll take 10 wins from Silva over Bradley's .205 BA any day...
Nobody cares about your fantasy baseball team
by carmen_fanzone on Aug 1, 2010 5:59 PM CDT up reply actions
Is that the standard Silva is going to always be held to?
That he can pitch as poorly as he can, so long as it’s better than whatever Bradley’s doing?
Yes.
Nobody cares about your fantasy baseball team
by carmen_fanzone on Aug 1, 2010 6:08 PM CDT up reply actions
Thank you for the permission.
Nobody cares about your fantasy baseball team
by carmen_fanzone on Aug 1, 2010 6:14 PM CDT up reply actions
No just that his first half was a pleasant surprise
for a guy many assumed would not make it out of Spring Training.
"Lou Piniella's been a great manager for a long time and I stand by him completely"
Jim Hendry
by Doggie Stalker on Aug 1, 2010 6:09 PM CDT up reply actions
Everyone was more excited about the cash
Now that we’re far away from the trade many expect him to win 20 games. Funny how that works.
by LT on Aug 1, 2010 7:29 PM CDT up reply actions
Baseball is a game of expectations
Perform a certain way and people will come to expect that level. In reality players regress and progress. It remains to be seen what Silva’s deal is but this particular event sounds like it really was a medical issue, a heart condition, which is nothing to joke about. So if they get that under control, there’s a reasonable expectation that he can pitch well enough to go at least .500.
Silva has been unpredictable however, so with him it’s best to either remove the uncertainty by moving him or hold on for the ride. With the season the way it is, management will probably stick with “whatever they can get from Silva” as has been the expectation from the beginning of the season. Pitching is overall not great right now, to understate it.
by cubsonWGN4ever on Aug 2, 2010 1:56 AM CDT up reply actions
yes because people feel the need to give "credit" to Jim Hendry
for making a trade that brought us crap for crap. It’s bizarre, but it’s nothing new on this site
Ya But.....
Now the Cubs have a solid 3 and a solid 4/5…..and really no other starting pitching
The best defense is a good offense.....Lou Pinella...still hasn't managed the Cubs to a post season win. D. Lee still doesn't have a post seasson RBI for Cubs...ditto for Soriano
"It's so simple, it's unbelievable," manager Lou Piniella said. "When you score runs, you win."
Dusty Baker is the only manager in the last 100+ years to lead the Cubs to a post season series win....
"Take the hands off the clock, we're gong to be here a while"
That's why you unload crap before everybody else figures it out.
Dumb to keep him post-deadline.
"The riches of the game are in the thrills, not the money." --Ernie Banks
I am sure they tried but other GMs are not dumb.
"Lou Piniella's been a great manager for a long time and I stand by him completely"
Jim Hendry
by Doggie Stalker on Aug 1, 2010 7:14 PM CDT up reply actions
yep
"Wait, are you saying I'm a sunshine-pumping, koolaid-drinking, Soriano-loving, rainbow-rising, unicorn-riding, double-clutching, Sweet Lou-backing, Hendry-supporting, hey hey whaddya saying, Cubs are going all the waying, glass is overflowing, Rothschild is all-knowing, Cubs fan? - ballhawk
OK if the Cubs had to send money with Lilly
how much would have been necessary with Silva? All of his salary?
It takes two to trade.
The only people who thought Carlos Silva was magically fixed
were Cubs fans. Other GMs knew that it was only a matter of time until he regressed back into what he’s been for a couple of years now
In the desperate for good news Dept.
Peoria won, TN & Iowa are winning but alas Daytona will not extend the winning streak, at least not today as they were rained out.
Kyle Smit one of the minor league pitchers picked up in yesterday’s trade pitched 2.1 scoreless innings.
Apologies to Josh who will give finals and more details but need good news were I can find it.
"Lou Piniella's been a great manager for a long time and I stand by him completely"
Jim Hendry
Sullivan tweet...
Silva taken to Denver hospital after abnormal heart rate. He’s fine now
"A dream you dream alone is only a dream. A dream you dream together is reality." John Lennon
I hope so.
If the Cubs still have a chance, no matter how small, it’s still Go Cubs, damn the math and pass the KoolAid.
Also here
http://www.chicagobreakingsports.com/2010/08/silva-hospitalized-with-heart-problem.html
If the Cubs still have a chance, no matter how small, it’s still Go Cubs, damn the math and pass the KoolAid.
So, Geo in the cleanup spot the rest of the year?
3 hits from DeWitt. I like it.
Nobody cares about your fantasy baseball team
It would be nice to put guys who are HITTING in the 3-4 spots
How about it, Lou? And if you don’t like the idea, stay in Tampa….
If you want to know what's wrong with Silva, just look at that picture in the recap
He’s not sick – the poor guy is pregnant! About 34 weeks along, I’d say. Cut him some slack. Can’t be easy going out there every 5th day, pitching for two…
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
Pretty much
This long season is catching up to him. Tough to perform at a professional level when you’re that out of shape.
Jokes aside...
… I suspect the altitude may have had something to do with this. Yes, he’s out of shape. Pitching in Denver — which he had never done before today — might have had something to do with this.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
I think you nailed it Al.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
Yeah. So, 2 injuries in 1 day: Silva and Ramírez. Ugh!
by Fraggin Judge on Aug 1, 2010 8:25 PM CDT up reply actions
Right. I meant he left sick.
It’s a one-day illness, apparently.
by Fraggin Judge on Aug 1, 2010 8:36 PM CDT up reply actions
They are keeping him
in the hospital over night.
A lovely story:
One day, long, long ago, there lived a woman who didn't whine, nag or bitch. That would be me....
But that was a long time ago and it was just that one day.
The end
Hmmm, they didn't say. :P
A lovely story:
One day, long, long ago, there lived a woman who didn't whine, nag or bitch. That would be me....
But that was a long time ago and it was just that one day.
The end
He was likely...
…a victim of being overweight and dealing with the high altitude.
Higher altitude means less oxygen in the air, which also means your heart has to pump faster to deliver the right amount of oxygen to your body. When you are overweight, this is magnfiied.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
Oh I agree.
The Rockies announcers kept saying he looked short of breath.
A lovely story:
One day, long, long ago, there lived a woman who didn't whine, nag or bitch. That would be me....
But that was a long time ago and it was just that one day.
The end
While I never want anyone to get hurt....
Or really be sick…
PLEASE quitmollycoddling highly paid professional athletes who are out of shape.
The best defense is a good offense.....Lou Pinella...still hasn't managed the Cubs to a post season win. D. Lee still doesn't have a post seasson RBI for Cubs...ditto for Soriano
"It's so simple, it's unbelievable," manager Lou Piniella said. "When you score runs, you win."
Dusty Baker is the only manager in the last 100+ years to lead the Cubs to a post season series win....
"Take the hands off the clock, we're gong to be here a while"
to be fair, there have been fat players in baseball for a VERY long time
the babe was one of them. Look at Fielder, If you can perform, you’ll get a shot in baseball.
by cubsonWGN4ever on Aug 2, 2010 2:01 AM CDT up reply actions
I think there are different types
of “fat” guys. Rick Reuschel was fat but he was also a good athlete and in pretty good condition despite his girth. The Cubs used to occasionally use him as a pinch runner. Sabathia probably fits that description too, he has thrown at least 230 innings each of the previous past three seasons. It appears that Silva is soft and out of shape. Little leaguers can pitch 5 or 6 innings; no excuse for a grown man and a professional athlete being unable to go longer than that.
It appears he had a genuine medical problem yesterday and I hope is is OK; that still doesn’t mean he isn’t woefully out of shape.
by qccub on Aug 2, 2010 11:02 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
I said out of shape....
Nothing about fat…
The best defense is a good offense.....Lou Pinella...still hasn't managed the Cubs to a post season win. D. Lee still doesn't have a post seasson RBI for Cubs...ditto for Soriano
"It's so simple, it's unbelievable," manager Lou Piniella said. "When you score runs, you win."
Dusty Baker is the only manager in the last 100+ years to lead the Cubs to a post season series win....
"Take the hands off the clock, we're gong to be here a while"
I don't think they are
mollycoddling him at all. This could be something very serious. They should take every precaution.
A lovely story:
One day, long, long ago, there lived a woman who didn't whine, nag or bitch. That would be me....
But that was a long time ago and it was just that one day.
The end
now that you know Silva was having a heart problem
do you see how ridiculous your comment is?
I always turn to the sports section first. The sports page records people's accomplishments; the front page has nothing but man's failures.
~Earl Warren
by lookingdeadred on Aug 2, 2010 11:54 AM CDT up reply actions
Boy this is going to be
a long two months.
I hope they at least show some energy at home.
by Grockcubs on Aug 1, 2010 6:19 PM CDT reply actions 1 recs
.772 ball from now on is all the Cubs need to do to win 90 this year.
To quote my English grandfather:
Not bloody likely
:-(
If the Cubs still have a chance, no matter how small, it’s still Go Cubs, damn the math and pass the KoolAid.
I know it's hard to root against the Cubs...
but clearly the more they lose, the better it is for the organization. I’m speaking in terms of draft order, if you’re wondering.
Can't do it
Can’t rationalize wanting them to lose more because it’s better for some draft order.
I want to see the current players, particularly the younger ones, play as well as they can and win as many games as they can.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Aug 1, 2010 6:51 PM CDT up reply actions
I'll give you reason
The Cubs team in 2 years will look a lot different to this Cubs team… so, you can root for guys like Colvin, Castro, Cashner, Wells, to do well, and root for Zambrano, Silva, Fukudome, Lee, etc., to do very badly. With a little luck, we can continue this losing streak :P
Nope
All for one and one for all. :)
I fail to see how anybody who considers themselves a fan of a team can hope they lose.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Aug 1, 2010 6:56 PM CDT up reply actions
Well
To be honest, I am disgusted with this Cubs team. I am tired, very tired, of a team that continuously finds ways to lose games and play bad baseball.
You might be better off
just tuning them out for the rest of the season.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Aug 1, 2010 7:03 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Yup
Since I live in Spain, I have been following the Cubs via Gameday for the last 5 years… and I’ve suffered as much, or more, as when I was watching them on tv before. This year I stopped using Gameday a long while ago, when it was pretty clear this team was awful. Right now I only watch the boxscore… and maybe I should give that up too.
Wow, talk about a long-distance commitment
I suppose you could focus on bullfighting instead, unless you live in Barcelona … read they just banned it there.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Aug 1, 2010 7:08 PM CDT up reply actions
Yup again (on the ban)
I do not care for bullfighting… on the other hand, I do watch football now (it’s impossible to live here and not to!), but my first passion is baseball and the Cubs. I’ve been a fan since the magical season of 1989. However, I am just tired of this current Cubs team and management. I am not as patiend as I used to be :)
I'm sure things were crazy over there
after the World Cup. Good to see Spain win it, instead of the usual suspects.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Aug 1, 2010 7:19 PM CDT up reply actions
Really crazy
Except… I wasn’t here to see it, since I was on a cruise… 5 years living here and I am not here when they win the WC for the first time! At least I got to enjoy the Eurocup 2 years ago. But believe me, I would enjoy 1000 times more if the Cubs win the WS, or even a playoff series…
That sucks
Unfortunately,if/when the Cubs do win it, you’d probably be about the only one celebratring, as opposed to millions for the soccer.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Aug 1, 2010 7:26 PM CDT up reply actions
Believe me
I will be a lot happier regardless. I was watching the TV alone when Harry Caray called the Cubs winning the division in 1989 and that was a magical moment I’ll never forget.
....and the more disgusted fans that do so.....
the more powerful the message to those “in charge”
The best defense is a good offense.....Lou Pinella...still hasn't managed the Cubs to a post season win. D. Lee still doesn't have a post seasson RBI for Cubs...ditto for Soriano
"It's so simple, it's unbelievable," manager Lou Piniella said. "When you score runs, you win."
Dusty Baker is the only manager in the last 100+ years to lead the Cubs to a post season series win....
"Take the hands off the clock, we're gong to be here a while"
right now
since they arent going to the playoffs its hoping they win next years #1 draft pick
I Love Larry - Brick are you looking at random things around the room and saying that you love them - I Love Larry
Currently 34,839 on the Season Ticket Wait List - Expected age of being #0: 119
The Cubs are quite capable
of losing with or without their fans encouragement. When Lou mailed in that white flag lineup on getaway day in Houston, it signaled to the world what most everyone else had known for months.
I expect an occasional good game at Wrigley when the wind is blowing out and crap most of the other games.
If a quality pitching start is 3 runs and 6 innings, then a quality hitting day is 1 for 4.
I'm a bit more cynical.....
The more they lose AND the fewer disinterested fans that show up at 1060 W. Addison from here on out……might send a message to the Rickets’ that …..(BTW…$8 beers are mighty profitable)
The best defense is a good offense.....Lou Pinella...still hasn't managed the Cubs to a post season win. D. Lee still doesn't have a post seasson RBI for Cubs...ditto for Soriano
"It's so simple, it's unbelievable," manager Lou Piniella said. "When you score runs, you win."
Dusty Baker is the only manager in the last 100+ years to lead the Cubs to a post season series win....
"Take the hands off the clock, we're gong to be here a while"
I'll be the voice of reason here
The more the Cubs lose, the better draft slot they get… so, I’m happy :)
Now, I am just wondering, is there a guy that need more pitched to get through an inning that Zambrano? 53 pitches for 2 freakin’ innings…
Yes..
7 teams right now have a worse record than the Cubs and the Nats have the same record. Astros are only a half a GB(or in front, depending on how you look at it) of us though. I don’t find it likely that we will finish worse than Baltimore, Seattle, or Pittsburgh, but I guess anything is possible.
This isn't like the NBA or NFL where you can draft a player who can help you the next year.
If the Cubs draft 2nd or 10th, they will still get a good player — someone who’s at least 2-3 years away from helping at the ML level. The MLB draft is much more of a crapshoot. Cubs shouldn’t lose for that reason.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
Agreed
But you’d still take the highest draft pick you can get. Obviously I am not saying the Cubs should lose, but I certainly care more to get a better draft slot than to see this awful team win a few more games.
Tanking games to get a draft pick in MLB isn't worth it.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
Thankfully
The Cubs don’t have to worry about that so much… they’re bad enough as it is. It’s a bad year for it too. They’ll have a protected first-rounder and not many Type-A players out there good enough to spend the money on.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Just North of Wrigley Field
by jameslcrockett on Aug 1, 2010 7:42 PM CDT up reply actions
If it was between first and second pick maybe
but that is not going to happpen
"Lou Piniella's been a great manager for a long time and I stand by him completely"
Jim Hendry
by Doggie Stalker on Aug 1, 2010 7:53 PM CDT up reply actions
It's a good thing that's not what he's advocating then
“Obviously I am not saying the Cubs should lose”
But he clearly says he is happy when they lose
The more the Cubs lose, the better draft slot they get… so, I’m happy :)
I always turn to the sports section first. The sports page records people's accomplishments; the front page has nothing but man's failures.
~Earl Warren
by lookingdeadred on Aug 2, 2010 9:34 AM CDT up reply actions
If they draft first, they can get Anthony Rendon.
He may be a “help you the next year” kind of player.
Of course, we have 14 games to go to catch BAL.
MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown
by D98 on Aug 1, 2010 7:54 PM CDT up reply actions
Jose Valverde needed 60 pitches to get through an inning and a third last night
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
I saw Mike Pelfry
of the Mets throw 75 pitches in the first 1 1/3 innings about 10 days ago against the D’Backs. We were wondering if he could hit 100 in the 2nd inning, but Jerry Manuel had finally seen enough and took him out.
wow
With all of Valderde’s gesturing and stunts, it boggles my mind to think how long it must have taken for him to throw 60 pitches.
"Wait, are you saying I'm a sunshine-pumping, koolaid-drinking, Soriano-loving, rainbow-rising, unicorn-riding, double-clutching, Sweet Lou-backing, Hendry-supporting, hey hey whaddya saying, Cubs are going all the waying, glass is overflowing, Rothschild is all-knowing, Cubs fan? - ballhawk
no
They ended up over 500 and in second place last year. I don’t see that happening this year.
"Fasten those seatbelts!"-Pat Hughes
I meant the way we toppled after facing Colorado shortly after the allstar break
We were still in good position to creep up towards the division lead, yet again I feel that this series, after the Houston one, has realistically knocked us out.
I went to the game
They looked pretty lifeless out there for most of the time. DeWitt had a great debut at the plate, and also had a very good play in the field going to his right. I didn’t like to see Lee throw to second in that terrible 2nd inning, in which it led to four runs. Did anyone happen to see Castro get annoyed at Sori on that mid-game popup? It sure looked like Sori wasn’t hustling, and could’ve possibly made a play on the foul ball.
"In order to have a winner, the team must have a feeling of unity; every player must put the team first- ahead of personal glory" - motivational sign at Halas Hall.
We were on our way home
listening to the Rockies announcers and they said Castro and Soriano had words over that. They said it was quite a run for Castro to get there and it was much closer for Soriano to get it but he slacked off on the ball. Don’t know if L&B mentioned it or even saw it.
A lovely story:
One day, long, long ago, there lived a woman who didn't whine, nag or bitch. That would be me....
But that was a long time ago and it was just that one day.
The end
Yep
That’s what I saw as well. Castro sprinting hard and had almost twice as far to run as Sori.
"In order to have a winner, the team must have a feeling of unity; every player must put the team first- ahead of personal glory" - motivational sign at Halas Hall.
is anyone surprised by Castro hustling and Soriano lollygagging?
I am not. I don’t think Castro has earned any “right” to tell a veteran he’s being lazy, although in the real world, he should be able to.
The 2010 Randy Hundley Fantasy Camp ruled!!!!
I wonder if
some of the plays where Soriano looks lazy he’s just not smart enough, or experienced enough to know what to do. The people I’ve talked to say he’s one of the hardest workers on the team. It doesn’t make sense to work that hard behind the scenes, the loaf in front of everyone.
DEJESUS!!!
I probably shouldn't use the term lazy
because I don’t think he’s lazy, I think he just has raw talent that has never been managed. He’s never had a veteran to tell him how to play the field I don’t believe. Obviously on this team teaching does not occur.
The 2010 Randy Hundley Fantasy Camp ruled!!!!
I was listening to the Rockies broadcast too
and they remarked about how hard Castro ran after pop flies, even ones that he appeared to not be able to get to.
I didn’t see the play, but they way they described it, I wonder if Soriano didn’t see Castro charging after the ball and he let up not wanting to cause a collision.
It really boils down to a veteran player getting used to a rookie and the way they play.
Nope
I was like twenty rows up in line with the popup. Sori didn’t sprint at all for the ball, while Castro covered twice as much ground in the same amount of time. Wasn’t even close to being a collision.
"In order to have a winner, the team must have a feeling of unity; every player must put the team first- ahead of personal glory" - motivational sign at Halas Hall.
And
You’re always a tool.
I reject your reality and substitute my own.
by WayneCampbell08 on Aug 2, 2010 11:41 AM CDT up reply actions
The difference between the Cubs and Rockies
Was stark this weekend. The Rockies are stacked with tons of young exciting players both athletic postion players and power pitchers. The Cubs have aging vets. Consider that Seth Smith is kind of an afterthought for the Rockies and he might be better than Tyler Colvin who’s emergence is one of perhaps only 2 bright spots in the whole season. Oh, and Dexter Fowler is everything you could want in a defensive center fielder. He covers so much ground and at 6’4 can reach everything.
by JSB on Aug 1, 2010 6:54 PM CDT via mobile reply actions
The same Rockies
who got swept in a two-game series earlier this year in Chicago. And just lost eight in a row.
I’m not ready to crown them yet, or necessarily down the road.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Aug 1, 2010 6:57 PM CDT up reply actions
Obviously the Rockies aren't the best team in baseball
They are only 5 games over .500. But they are way ahead of the Cubs in terms of talent and most importantly young MLB-star level talent. I could see the Cubs getting worse before they get better. Absent Yankee-level spending we are likely looking at at least 2 years of rebuilding.
by JSB on Aug 1, 2010 7:01 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
I think you're exaggerating a bit
They could contend as early as next year.
In 2006, did you think they’d win the division in 2007? Likewise, in 2008, did you think they’d fall short in 2009?
I’ll wait and see what happens in the offseason, spring training and beyond before I make any sweeping generalizations about how long recovery will take.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Aug 1, 2010 7:05 PM CDT up reply actions
That doesn't make a lot of sense
At the end of 2006, there were probably more pieces in place for immediate contention than we have now. Right now we are going into 2011 without a single player, position or pitcher that is likely to play at an all-star level. The one exception perhaps is Soto. But our rotation is declining, our key offensive pieces are in decline, and our young players are likely a year or two away from being impact front-line players. At least in 2006 we still had Lee, Ramirez and Zambrano as All-Star type cornerstones to build around. My expectations for next year are very low. The only free agent acquisition that would excite me about next year is Cliff Lee and that isn’t happening.
by JSB on Aug 1, 2010 7:11 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
Sign me up as well
I don’t see much hope for next year based on what you already stated. In addition, their starting staff is showing weaknesses after a good beginning; they were clearly playing above their capabilities earlier in the season.
"In order to have a winner, the team must have a feeling of unity; every player must put the team first- ahead of personal glory" - motivational sign at Halas Hall.
I don't know NBF.....
With no offense, starting pitching as weak as the Mark Clark era, no bullpen …..
The best defense is a good offense.....Lou Pinella...still hasn't managed the Cubs to a post season win. D. Lee still doesn't have a post seasson RBI for Cubs...ditto for Soriano
"It's so simple, it's unbelievable," manager Lou Piniella said. "When you score runs, you win."
Dusty Baker is the only manager in the last 100+ years to lead the Cubs to a post season series win....
"Take the hands off the clock, we're gong to be here a while"
Hey! Shut up! Things are going to magically fall into place and if you don't believe that
you’re stupid!
Am I doing it right Bruce?
Don't you have
corn to shuck or something? That would be a better use of your time.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Aug 2, 2010 10:34 AM CDT up reply actions
Keep in mind
the Cubs managed to miss the Rockies ace in both series. Even with the injuries they have had, their record is what, 17 games better than the Cubs? I think JSB makes a great point.
(Channeling Dennis Green)
If you want to crown them, you can crown their A$$!
I didn't believe it last August, but it turns out that love survives.
Mount Washington conquered July 5, 2010
State high point count: 3/50
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Aug 1, 2010 7:50 PM CDT up reply actions
I was thinking the same thing
And when you consider the fact that the Rockies have experienced key injuries that a lot of teams would use as an excuse to write off the season, I think the Rockies are a great success story. It wasn’t that long ago they were Todd and the toddlers, and now Helton has been effectively replaced and the toddlers are playing some good ball.
And heck, the Cubs didn’t even have to face the Rockies best pitcher, perhaps the most dominant pitcher in the NL.
perhaps the most dominant pitcher in the first half maybe, but not so much in the last month and a half
Last 30 days – ERA 6.02; Last 15 days – ERA 6.91 Only 2 quality starts (and that’s a pretty low bar) out of his last seven starts.
I’d still put my money on Halladay as being the most dominant NL pitcher.
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
ack - I knew I was forgetting someone but all I could think of was Lincecum...
…and he’s just not that dominant this year.
Yes, Johnson has been consistently a stud all year, so I’ll amend my position. I’ll put half my money on Halladay and the other half on Johnson.
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
Lincecum
is still doing alright based on most of his numbers, but the speed on his fastball is way down… scarily so.
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Just North of Wrigley Field
by jameslcrockett on Aug 1, 2010 7:58 PM CDT up reply actions
Josh Johnson
would like a word with you.
Seriously, nobody touches him
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Just North of Wrigley Field
by jameslcrockett on Aug 1, 2010 7:46 PM CDT up reply actions
yup...
for 2 whole runs.
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Just North of Wrigley Field
by jameslcrockett on Aug 1, 2010 7:49 PM CDT up reply actions
did you mean the Giants?
They “torched” him for three last week.
The Padres haven’t scored three off him all season… over 17 innings including his first and only CG back in April.
To me, that’s the only place where Halladay has a clear edge. He completes more of his games. The perfecto kinda helps too.
Even though, I’d give the Cy Young to Johnson… so far.
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Just North of Wrigley Field
by jameslcrockett on Aug 1, 2010 7:56 PM CDT up reply actions
the padres scored 5 in 5.2 innings off JJ today
JJ gave up 5 ER in all of june, 5 ER in all of july and 5 ER in 1 start in august
by jesus christos on Aug 1, 2010 8:01 PM CDT up reply actions
THIS IS GOOD!
KEEP PLAYING POORLY AND WE BECOME SELLERS AT THE TRADE DEADLINE!
er…
"The riches of the game are in the thrills, not the money." --Ernie Banks
Unfortunately we played so bad we had nothing to sell
This roster really has little of value to offer legit contenders. The only pieces that would have netted a serious return are Marmol, Marshall or Soto. But even then probably not enough to justify trading them.
by JSB on Aug 1, 2010 7:16 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
Theriot grounds out weakly
by LouPiniellaIsRetiring on Aug 1, 2010 7:15 PM CDT via mobile reply actions
Cubs Minor league teams now 27-0
with streaks fro 3 to 13 games each. Must be nice to play winning baseball. Hope the players that make the Chicago team remember this.
"Lou Piniella's been a great manager for a long time and I stand by him completely"
Jim Hendry
Theriot has now been on Sunday night baseball four weeks in a row.
The last three with the Cubs, and now tonight. Clearly, he’s looking for the media attention.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
You guys know we haven’t won a game without Theriot
by LouPiniellaIsRetiring on Aug 1, 2010 7:26 PM CDT via mobile reply actions
I'm waiting to hear from Tom Ricketts
when he has to come out of his bunker and acknowledge that major changes have to occur after this terrible year.
If a quality pitching start is 3 runs and 6 innings, then a quality hitting day is 1 for 4.
This
I didn't believe it last August, but it turns out that love survives.
Mount Washington conquered July 5, 2010
State high point count: 3/50
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Aug 1, 2010 7:51 PM CDT up reply actions
Absolutely
I don’t need Tom Ricketts to hold my hand.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Aug 1, 2010 8:06 PM CDT up reply actions
I don't need him to hold my hand
but I would like to hear a sense of what he and Hendry’s vision for the next year or two are. They don’t have to cite specific players or anything, but it would be nice to tell the people who make their jobs possible what they think will fix this club.
DEJESUS!!!
I'm sure we'll find that out
in due time.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Aug 1, 2010 8:54 PM CDT up reply actions
That's right! In the meantime keep buying your tickets and merchandise!
Tom Ricketts is an amazing owner and owes us nothing!
I wish I owned the concession on exclamation points!
Then I could price TJ right out of the market!!! Oh happy day!!!!!!
by Not Bruce Froemming on Aug 1, 2010 11:42 PM CDT up reply actions
It would be!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Everyday is a happy day with NOT Bruce and the Cubs!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Tom Ricketts does not owe us anything!
I am agreeing with you NOT Bruce!
Just an aside
What, exactly, does Tom Ricketts owe us that he does not desire for himself? In what ways are his goals for the team misaligned with the goals we, the fans, hold?
"Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have?" -Frank Chance
"If [Ruth] had [called his shot], I would have knocked him down with the next pitch." -Charlie Root
I said I agree with NBF-He owes us nothing!
I just believe he is fine with the team the way it is because he has done nothing to change things and gushed about Jim Hendry.
That is not quite in touch with what the fans want….
The way the guys at ESPN talk about Theriot,
You’d think he’d be having a lot better season than he has, with a near-flawless stolen base record and lots of extra-base hits.
They said he was a good contact hitter, and a speedster. WTH? Clearly they didn’t watch many Cubs games this year, even the few games that happened on Sunday night.
I didn't believe it last August, but it turns out that love survives.
Mount Washington conquered July 5, 2010
State high point count: 3/50
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Aug 1, 2010 8:14 PM CDT reply actions
don't forget, Morgan will trash anyone playing ON the Cubs
once they play for another team, they are superstars
The 2010 Randy Hundley Fantasy Camp ruled!!!!
Yeah.
Question. Did Morgan say anything about his horsecrap “Banks Boulevard” story on July 18 (Phillies at Cubs)?
If he did, I wouldn’t know … I was at the game, in the left-field bleachers with Al.
I didn't believe it last August, but it turns out that love survives.
Mount Washington conquered July 5, 2010
State high point count: 3/50
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Aug 1, 2010 8:17 PM CDT up reply actions
if he did I did not hear him, I tune him out when he speaks
The 2010 Randy Hundley Fantasy Camp ruled!!!!
No. Since some of us
sent emails to ESPN a few years back complaining about his use of “Banks Boulevard” he has not brought it up.
A lovely story:
One day, long, long ago, there lived a woman who didn't whine, nag or bitch. That would be me....
But that was a long time ago and it was just that one day.
The end
I'm sure ESPN strongly reprimanded Morgan
and his response was something like, “Whatever I say is the truth, don’t you know that? I am a Hall of Famer are those fans? OK then.”
The 2010 Randy Hundley Fantasy Camp ruled!!!!
I think he got the message. He
hasn’t mentioned it since. Probably pisses him off tho.
A lovely story:
One day, long, long ago, there lived a woman who didn't whine, nag or bitch. That would be me....
But that was a long time ago and it was just that one day.
The end
I think they are talking about
his entire career, not just this year.
For instance, Theriot stole 28 bases and was only caught 4 times in 2007.
I think everyone understands that an individual’s offensive numbers tend to suffer when the team as a whole is struggling as much as the Cubs have this year.
Consider who is making the comments.
They come from Joe Morgan, who may be the single worst baseball “broadcaster” in history.
I didn't believe it last August, but it turns out that love survives.
Mount Washington conquered July 5, 2010
State high point count: 3/50
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Aug 1, 2010 8:27 PM CDT up reply actions
Regardless of how you feel about Joe Morgan as a broadcaster
he has forgotten more about baseball than you will ever know.
That's right...
And he proves how much he’s forgotten every time he goes on the air.
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Just North of Wrigley Field
by jameslcrockett on Aug 1, 2010 8:34 PM CDT up reply actions
Unfortunately...
2008 and 2009 did happen (and one of those years was a playoff year)… and he failed to be even break-even when it comes to stealing bases. He also hit into double-digit double plays in each of his full seasons, and is on pace to do it again this year.
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Just North of Wrigley Field
by jameslcrockett on Aug 1, 2010 8:48 PM CDT up reply actions
You must have different stats than I do
I show Theriot stealing 21 out of 31 bases in 2009, 22 out of 35 in 2008, and 16 out of 22 this year.
21 out of 31 is bad
22 out of 35 is bad
16 out of 22 is meh
by jesus christos on Aug 1, 2010 9:00 PM CDT up reply actions
Most sabremetric types agree that you need to be successful nearly 75% of the time to add value with your steals
http://sabometrics.com/?p=582 if you’re interested. There are plenty of other articles too.
21/32 and 22/35 fall short of that metric.
The league should probably steal less bases
Theriot’s at 74% for his career. Not bad. But 67% for the last 3 seasons, which is even less than that league average. His speed is not a major asset IMO.
Note
that there isn’t anyone on the Cubs roster that has more than 5 SB this year.
And DeWitt has a total of 5 in his career.
I'm entirely unconvinced that you need speed on a team to be successful.
And the only speed worth having is the kind that can do it at a 75%+ clip. Theriot was no longer one of those guys. We may be lacking speed, but losing Theriot didn’t really affect that.
Well, it depends on what kind of an offense you have
if you can score runs in bunches without the SB, then great.
Teams like the Padres have to steal to manufacture runs.
I would say the Cubs offense this year would benefit from being able to manufacture runs, as they have trouble scoring.
Unfortunately, they are dead last in the NL in SB and they just traded away 41% of the SB they do have.
Over the course of 500 ABs
DeWitt will get onto base 15 more times than Theriot and have an extra base hit rather than a single about 8 more times. That’s comparable to the number of stolen bases you might expect out of Theriot in a season, without the extra outs due to the caught stealing.
You aren’t going to convince me that our offense is going to be hurt by losing its worst hitter, someone with an OPS under .650. There’s no way around that.
I think you're right about DeWitt over Theriot
But overall, I do agree with jazzman that this team as a whole really lacks the ability to manufacture runs.
You mean they are lacking
speed, the ability to bunt draw a walk, hit for contact ? Hmmmm I wonder who might have been able to help with that?
"Lou Piniella's been a great manager for a long time and I stand by him completely"
Jim Hendry
by Doggie Stalker on Aug 1, 2010 10:48 PM CDT up reply actions
Actually the Cubs are #8 in all of baseball
in sacrifice hits. They are in the middle of the pack in most contact related hitting stats, but their downfall is #6 in the league in Ks, and #2 in the league in GIDP. The BB rate is not particularly good, either.
I don't know
maybe a player whose one of the few players who has drawn more walks than Ks at every level a baseball. Wonder where one could have found one of those. A little late now.
"Lou Piniella's been a great manager for a long time and I stand by him completely"
Jim Hendry
by Doggie Stalker on Aug 1, 2010 11:55 PM CDT up reply actions
That's an interesting spin on the numbers
but it doesn’t really jibe with reality.
More concerning to me, is the serious drop off that DeWitt has experienced in his career when he plays away from Dodger Stadium. His numbers at Wrigley are anemic. .167 BA and .500 OPS
Theriot’s numbers drop off a bit on the road, but nothing like that.
There are a lot of similarities between Theriot and DeWitt, but the difference in running speed is one difference that leaps off the page, and the impact of that is not just in stealing bases. It affects going from first to third on a single, scoring from second base on a single, scoring from first on a double, etc etc.
Theriot averages .54 runs scored per game. DeWitt averages .34
Theroit averages 1.41 walks/hits per game, DeWitt averages 1.10
Those are some pretty big differences.
Unless Theriot suddeny reverts to his career average
your numbers are meaningless. Ryan 2010 OPS+ is 69 while DeWitt is 99.
If a quality pitching start is 3 runs and 6 innings, then a quality hitting day is 1 for 4.
Très Bien.
"Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have?" -Frank Chance
"If [Ruth] had [called his shot], I would have knocked him down with the next pitch." -Charlie Root
No, let's talk about 2008 some more. Years when one of the players puts up unrepeatable career numbers are best for comparisons!
Even if you compare Theriot’s last 3 seasons to DeWitt’s, DeWitt comes out ahead. Nevermind that DeWitt’s last 3 years are the only 3 years he’s spent in the majors. DeWitt has a higher OPS, and is much younger and getting better. Theriot seems to be on the way down and out of the league. At least starting, that is.
Please don't telll me you are actually using per game averages
They are completely useless. How about this stat? PA per game:
Theriot 4.13
Dewitt: 3.33
So Theriot gets more walks/hits in a game and scores more runs in a game because he frequently bats leadoff and gets almost an extra AB a game.
I need to learn that I'm being trolled by the ultimate contrarian and just give it up
Thanks for pointing out that massive logic flaw as well though.
and there's this nugget...
DeWitt’s “anemic” numbers at Wrigley are based on 18 AB’s – 2 for 9 this year and 1 for 9 in 2008, his rookie year.
Good thing he wasn’t putting an interesting spin on numbers or anything…
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
You don't like per game averages?
Well, then I guess you disregrard ERA which is per 9 innings and WHIP, which is per INNING.
You guys are missing the forest for the trees here. Stats are useful in telling us what somebody has done in their career, but they are only useful in telling us what somebody MIGHT do in the future if they are used in conjunction with observations.
So, what can we say about Theriot vs DeWitt? Well, first of all, we can pretty much throw out OPS. Neither player hits for much power, so that doesn’t tell us much. They are both on base type guys.
Yes, it is true that Theriot has mostly hit lead off or second in his career and DeWitt has mostly hit 7th or 8th, so that is a key point. It not only means Theriot gets more plate appearances, but it also means DeWitt will get more at bats with runners on base.
So, what do the numbers tell us? Well, both are pretty similar in terms of OBP. Theriot scores more runs, steals more bases and has a higher batting average,
Both are get on base in front of the power hitter type guys, but Theriot’s speed makes him much more effective. His ability to steal a base or disrupt the pitcher can put pressure on the defense and/or make the pitcher lose focus. And he will cause the middle of the order guys to see more fastballs.
At this, he has been moderately successful.
DeWitt’s main value is to not make an out in front of the pitcher in hopes of turing the line-up over, so the pitcher won’t lead off an inning.
At this he has been moderately successful at Dodger Stadium and mostly unsuccessful everywhere else.
You're going to use rate per game numbers? Really?
Why don’t you mention that DeWitt has only averaged 3.33 PAs/game while Theriot is up at 4.14?
What happens when you adjust DeWitt’s numbers up to be the same as Theriot’s?
.42 runs per game (incredibly highly dependent stat on your teammates anyway)
1.36 walks/hits per game . . . hey look, big differences aren’t so big anymore
I’ll throw back that DeWitt averages .336 taken bases per AB, whereas Theriot only averages .323 despite his speed. Over the course of 4.14 ABs (assuming DeWitt will see similar playtime to Theriot going foward) that adds up to almost a base taken more per game than Theriot. How often do you think that Theriot’s baserunning skills add more than 1 base per game anyway?
For someone who spends so much time on this site, you’d think you might have learned a thing or two about Theriot’s fabled baserunning skills which you tout as if they’re a game changer. They are, unfortunately, a game changer. Here’s a link if you want to learn what I mean.
Those Are Some Pretty Meaningless Stats
You really can’t be that ignorant.
I reject your reality and substitute my own.
by WayneCampbell08 on Aug 2, 2010 11:50 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
clearly they've been reading the same scouting reports that Lou does
why else did it take trading him away to get Theriot out of the starting lineup? Honest to god, the similarities between Dusty and Lou just keep multiplying.
I’m waiting for Lou to make a comment about the Cubs being so bad because they have too many white guys, and white guys don’t play very well in the heat
sure there is, we haven't hit bottom yet.
But the captain of this sinking ship is coming back next year…..so no worries!
The "captain" is not coming back.
The admiral is.
"Lou Piniella's been a great manager for a long time and I stand by him completely"
Jim Hendry
by Doggie Stalker on Aug 2, 2010 7:01 AM CDT up reply actions
the admiral of the fleet
very possible a different manager has us in contention right now…
I Love Larry - Brick are you looking at random things around the room and saying that you love them - I Love Larry
Currently 34,839 on the Season Ticket Wait List - Expected age of being #0: 119
Well, at least we'll get to see the kids play.
www.facebook.com/craighudak
by Craig in South Bend on Aug 1, 2010 9:53 PM CDT reply actions 2 recs
I'd call you a s**thead
But everyone would get confused, then I’d have to explain it, do a bad job, and have to take a time-out. So I’m not calling you a s**thead.
"Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have?" -Frank Chance
"If [Ruth] had [called his shot], I would have knocked him down with the next pitch." -Charlie Root
This season has stunk worse than a pile of bull's excrement
RIP Ronnie James Dio (July 10, 1942 - May 16, 2010).
I think it is going great! What an exciting game today!
And JH sure did a bunch of deadline deals to help us out!
The Cubs are Amazing!
Two things:
Silva’s accelerated heartbeat could be related to many things including physical shape, thin air and genetics. In any case, it’s not a joking matter. An irregular heartbeat can lead to blood clots and those can kill a person. So it’s a good thing Carlos got it checked out.
Second, I’m afraid there’s no way we can catch the Pirates.
We have met the enemy and they are us! ~ Walt Kelly, Pogo, 1971
I think it's a good thing that Silva left the game because of his heartbeat.
Reminds me a little bit of Pittsburgh Steelers safety Ryan Clark, who played through sickle-cell anemia in a game at Denver in 2007 and nearly died as a result.
I didn't believe it last August, but it turns out that love survives.
Mount Washington conquered July 5, 2010
State high point count: 3/50
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Aug 2, 2010 6:40 AM CDT reply actions
After that game,
Because of the sickle-cell condition, Clark doesn’t play in Denver anymore. He lost 30 pounds and needed to have his spleen and gall bladder removed.
I didn't believe it last August, but it turns out that love survives.
Mount Washington conquered July 5, 2010
State high point count: 3/50
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Aug 2, 2010 6:42 AM CDT up reply actions
The saddest case was J.R Richard
He was ridiculed by fans and doubted by management when he kept complaining of headaches and pain. Since tests were negative , he was labeled a loafer. A short time later he suffered a stroke that ended his career and pretty much destroyed his life
"Lou Piniella's been a great manager for a long time and I stand by him completely"
Jim Hendry
by Doggie Stalker on Aug 2, 2010 7:04 AM CDT up reply actions
Oh my.
Just looked that up. That is indeed a very sad story, and he had issues well before the stroke happened.
But was it due to a game in Denver? It was a game in Denver that caused all the health problems for Ryan Clark, and that’s the connection I was going for in my comment.
I didn't believe it last August, but it turns out that love survives.
Mount Washington conquered July 5, 2010
State high point count: 3/50
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Aug 2, 2010 7:24 AM CDT up reply actions
If his condition had been correctly diagnosed early on
who knows what kind of numbers Richards would have put up. He was the most intimidating pitcher I ever saw. I was watching him warm up at Shea and the baseball looked so small in his hand.
I always turn to the sports section first. The sports page records people's accomplishments; the front page has nothing but man's failures.
~Earl Warren
by lookingdeadred on Aug 2, 2010 8:18 AM CDT up reply actions
He was one scary dude on the mound.
"Lou Piniella's been a great manager for a long time and I stand by him completely"
Jim Hendry
by Doggie Stalker on Aug 2, 2010 9:32 AM CDT up reply actions
Irregular Heartbeat
I have the condition myself and after my diagnosis it was one of the reasons I went on the weight reduction plan I did. And being in high altitude can aggravate it. I went to a wedding last year in Denver and had issues.
Nice debut as a Cub for Dewitt.
Formerly known as cubstoseriesby100. Thanks Al for letting me change my outdated screenname.
It will be interesting to hear what type of arrhythmia he has
Hopefully it is not a ventricular arrhythmia.
I always turn to the sports section first. The sports page records people's accomplishments; the front page has nothing but man's failures.
~Earl Warren
by lookingdeadred on Aug 2, 2010 8:22 AM CDT up reply actions
and let the turning on Silva begin
we have already turned on Lee, Soriano and Zambrano, lets add Silva, Dempster and Marshall…
I Love Larry - Brick are you looking at random things around the room and saying that you love them - I Love Larry
Currently 34,839 on the Season Ticket Wait List - Expected age of being #0: 119
Oh, come on.
That’s a bit melodramatic, don’t you think? Cubs fans have given Zambrano about a million chances, Soriano (who is a true professional) fought his way back and hasn’t been booed this year and besides an occasional idiot, no fan would boo Silva for a heart condition.
I admit I was a pretty harsh critic of Lee’s refusal to go to the Angels, and I think it speaks pretty poorly of his competitive desire. That said, I probably went over the line in some of my comments because the Angels ARE pretty far out of it. It’s not like Lee refused a trade to the Yankees.
It's bound to happen.
A lovely story:
One day, long, long ago, there lived a woman who didn't whine, nag or bitch. That would be me....
But that was a long time ago and it was just that one day.
The end
Oh please!! Come on yourself.
You’ve been on here long enough to know how people are. How soon you forget all the Dumpster comments from a few years ago. Even the horrible comments made about him and then we find out he was dealing with his seriously ill daughter and people said that was no excuse he still had a job to do. People on here show no mercy.
A lovely story:
One day, long, long ago, there lived a woman who didn't whine, nag or bitch. That would be me....
But that was a long time ago and it was just that one day.
The end
It's all a matter of degree.
Are there some morons who said dump shit about Dempster in 2009? Sure. Are there people who called him Dumpster when he was DEMOTED from the closer’s role in 2006? Sure.
Does that mean that the fans of the Chicago Cubs, collectively, turned on Ryan Dempster? I don’t think so. And professional athletes should have thick enough skin — made thicker by the millions of dollars they earn — to bounce back. Dempster did. Soriano did.
And I don’t think either of them would say the fans collectively turned on them. Booed them? Criticized them? Questioned them? Sure.
But they’re professional athletes and they recovered.
I guess we have different
meanings of the term “turned on them” then. That’s bullshit that professional athletes should have thicker skin because they make millions.
A lovely story:
One day, long, long ago, there lived a woman who didn't whine, nag or bitch. That would be me....
But that was a long time ago and it was just that one day.
The end
We do disagree.
I know I could take more taunts if I was earning $10 million a year. Or more.
So, let me get this straight:
We traded a 30-year-old second baseman who clearly has declined, a good 34-year-old lefty who might re-sign after the season and can’t possibly make much difference before then anyway for a cheap, left-handed hitting second baseman who’s in his mid 20s and two young arms … and people are upset by this move?
I’ve been away from BCB for a few days, but other than the money the Cubs had to send to LA, I can’t see how this isn’t a really good move. I can see being upset that Hendry didn’t make other deals — I guess he was close on Fontenot and Nady to SF? — but I’m extremely happy with the Dodgers trade.
Welcome to the insanity
I really can’t understand the negativity either. I expected it though as the expectations were so high that Hendry was going to get this big influx of top prospects. The fact that very few top prospects were traded didn’t make any difference.
Of course, some people were going to complain if Hendry got Jason Hayward because he didn’t get Tommy Hanson thrown into the deal.
Hendry traded Ted Lilly and Ryan Theriot.
Not Cliff Lee and Chase Utley. Lilly is a good No. 3 starter and Theriot is, well, Theriot. I’m happy with the return.
I DO understand frustration that OTHER moves weren’t made.
Agreed on the other moves
I would have liked to see Nady and Baker traded but the return would have been minor so it isn’t a big deal. The Cubs issues are going to take a few years to work out. I really didn’t expect this trading window to make much difference for the long-term.
I didn’t expect that either Silva or Fukudome were going to be moved.
That's a good point.
Trading Nady and Fontenot would have been about freeing up roster spots, as much as anything else.
I’m not sure I agree with the issues taking a few years. The team will shed $25 million or so (assuming Lilly doesn’t re-sign) this offseason, and things look a lot brighter after 2011 when Silva, Fukudome and Ramirez are gone.
It will be nice when Hendry doesn’t have to spend every offseason trying to find workarounds for disappointing signings (signing Bradley because Kosuke didn’t work, acquiring Silva to dump Bradley, signing Nady because Kosuke can’t hit lefties and in case Soriano continued his 2009-style decline, etc.).
In a way, the Kosuke signing begat Bradley, Silva and Nady — which is why I was amazed that people still defended the Kosuke signing up until this spring.
If Nady is claimed in August, they'll let him go.
Same with Fukudome, or just about anyone who is waived. Let’s hope some are claimed.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
No one will claim Kosuke Fukudome.
Why would they? He’s good defensively, but he’s at best a platoon outfielder, so his pluses — OBP and defense — aren’t everyday pluses.
To say NOTHING about his pricetag.
unless they say
hey I will take him for a PTBNL if you throw some cash in the deal…maybe shore up a defensive blight on a contender?
I Love Larry - Brick are you looking at random things around the room and saying that you love them - I Love Larry
Currently 34,839 on the Season Ticket Wait List - Expected age of being #0: 119
Not how waivers work
If a team claimed Fuku from waivers, then the Cubs can decide to do 3 thing. 1) Pull him back off of waivers (unlikely) 2) Try to trade him to the team that claimed him (unlikely) ) 3) Let the team that claim him have him (almost definite). Option 1 is self-explanatory. They probably want to get rid of him. Option 2 is unlikely because the Cubs don’t want to eat his contract and wouldn’t get much in return. Option 3 would be a blessing. They give away Fukudome for nothing. The other team would have to pay his contract. That is what the White Sox did with Alex Rios last year. It’s unlikely to happen, but one can dream.
but the Cubs
have already said they would be ok in eating salary on him…
I Love Larry - Brick are you looking at random things around the room and saying that you love them - I Love Larry
Currently 34,839 on the Season Ticket Wait List - Expected age of being #0: 119
Why would they if someone claims him from waivers?
I can see eating salary to trade him before the trade deadline hit, but now? I don’t see it happening.
I am saying the other team
would say this to the Cubs…might be able to get him cheaper now than before the non-waiver deadline, plus he would have 1 month’s less salary to pay. If the Cubs can free up at least a couple million – why not? I guess my contention is that the acquring team gets him for less $$ wise and for (possibly) less PTBNL wise…
I Love Larry - Brick are you looking at random things around the room and saying that you love them - I Love Larry
Currently 34,839 on the Season Ticket Wait List - Expected age of being #0: 119
And still no one was interested
That shows how little interest anyone has in Fukudome. I’d be shocked if he gets moved in a waiver deal.
well, now you're just talking about a regular ol' fashioned trade
the only difference now (since it’s after the “trading deadline”) is Dome would have to clear waivers first (likely). Once that happens then teams are free to try the “hey I will take him for a PTBNL if you throw some cash in the deal” gambit.
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
Kosuke gets (got) a free pass because the reports were that he was a knock out and everyone wanted him
You can’t say the same for Bradley and Silva.
If Hendry had kept Jim Edmonds after 2008...
… they’d have at least had a decent LH bat to platoon in CF and would have saved a ton of money. That was a major mistake.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
So was signing Kosuke Fukudome.
For all the “intangibles” that were cited to defend the signing for two years, there is now NO QUESTION that the Fukudome signing was a huge disaster.
I'll give Hendry a pass on Fukudome
All the reports were that he was a good player. I wasn’t expecting Ichiro and Matsui but I was expecting better than what he is showing.
My big problem with Hendry (and why I think he needs to go) was Bradley. No good GM would have given him three years. Even if Hendry thought he was “changed”, you don’t give him a 3 year deal based on nothing. I question Hendry’s judgment on everything after that deal.
Right on all counts.
Those who complain about the Fukudome signing now — that’s only clear with hindsight. At the time it was widely hailed, and several other teams were in line to sign him.
The Bradley deal — that was a bad idea before it even happened.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
IIRC, at least one other team (the White Sox)?
was offering Fukudome MORE money than what the Cubs paid him.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Aug 2, 2010 11:29 AM CDT up reply actions
Here's what I don't get.
Hendry was one of several GMs who misread Fukudome’s abilities. How can THAT be used to defend the move?
Granted, the Bradley signing made less sense, but the Fukudome signing cost the Cubs $18 million more (not counting in the Silva trade).
Pretty easily, eg
A lot of teams wanted Fukudome. It’s not as if Hendry was out there on an island, as he might have been with Bradley.
Of course, the only issue I had with Bradley was the length of the deal. I thought he could turn it around here, and I was wrong. Apparently he can’t turn it around in Seattle, either.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Aug 2, 2010 3:13 PM CDT up reply actions
So the defense of Hendry ...
is that a lot of teams were also wrong, but the Cubs were just unlucky in that they actually signed him?
That doesn’t say much for Jimbo, IMO. I remember being excited at the time of the signing, but I also remember thinking that the Cubs had to give a relative unknown a lot of money. At the time, I trusted Hendry enough to give him the benefit of the doubt, I figured the salary was another example of baseball contracts increasing and I wasn’t sad to see the Murton/Jones/Floyd outfield mix of 2007 change.
I was trying to offer
a slight benefit of the doubt. Feel free to ignore that. :)
by Not Bruce Froemming on Aug 2, 2010 3:49 PM CDT up reply actions
Based on what was reported ...
I will ignore it. Hendry doesn’t get a benefit of any doubt on THAT signing.
Hendry was one of several GMs who misread Fukudome’s abilities. How can THAT be used to defend the move?
Maybe it can’t. But if you bash him for that, bash the other GM’s, too.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
I'll grant that point.
Jim Hendry and several other major league GMs were very stupid when they overestimated the baseball-playing abilities of Kosuke Fukudome.
But Hendry was STILL stupid. And the Cubs, unlike the other teams involved, are paying the price.
I'd chalk it up more to
“Hey, by all indications, this guy was legit. It didn’t work out.” Not a fireable offense, IMHO.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Aug 2, 2010 3:29 PM CDT up reply actions
Agreed.
It seemed like the thing to do at the time. You can’t bash a signing like this in hindsight.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
Well, Al, you're wrong.
I CAN bash this. Whether YOU agree with it is another matter.
You were stubborn in shooting down any trade rumor involving Ted Lilly for three weeks. I can be stubborn about this, because IN MY OPINION Jim Hendry deserves HEAVY CRITICISM for the Kosuke signing.
Oh, I'm not saying it's a fireable offense.
But Kosuke, MB and Z?
Two out of three of those
are extremely defensible.
One isn’t. (Care to guess? :) )
by Not Bruce Froemming on Aug 2, 2010 3:48 PM CDT up reply actions
I can look past Z.
But throw in Aaron Miles, John Grabow …
The same Aaron Miles
who’s hitting .300-something for the Cardinals right now?
by Not Bruce Froemming on Aug 2, 2010 4:58 PM CDT up reply actions
and whose career average
is DeRosa-esque…not a bad signing – just the guy had a bad year…and then never played
I Love Larry - Brick are you looking at random things around the room and saying that you love them - I Love Larry
Currently 34,839 on the Season Ticket Wait List - Expected age of being #0: 119
and name me one GM in baseball that
doesnt have several contracts that they are now or will in the future be asking themselves “Why the hell did I do that?” (Ryan Howard comes to mind as just one) - in reality I think Jim has done a fine job, has he made his mistakes, you bet, has he also built a team that has had 3 winning seasons in a row? you bet, is he pretty good in the trade realm – absolutely. The guy isnt perfect but no GM is, just we get the ability to nit-pick him as fans.
I Love Larry - Brick are you looking at random things around the room and saying that you love them - I Love Larry
Currently 34,839 on the Season Ticket Wait List - Expected age of being #0: 119
Um
Edmonds retired after the season. Didn’t you get the memo?
I reject your reality and substitute my own.
by WayneCampbell08 on Aug 2, 2010 11:55 AM CDT up reply actions
No, Edmonds did not retire.
Haven’t you noticed him playing for the Brewers? He just didn’t get any offers.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
I figure several years because there will still be holes next year
Who will play first? If Dewitt is at 2nd then where is the leadoff hitter? Can Colvin really handle 3rd or 4th which might be where he will be next year?
On the mound, the Cubs don’t have a #1 (or arguably a #2). What will happen with Zambrano?
With all these issues I don’t expect 2011 to be that successful.
Let's revisit all that in March
A lot of things can happen between now and then.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Aug 2, 2010 10:39 AM CDT up reply actions
I expect a young team that will finish just below .500.
And a possible chance at 85 wins and a WC berth.
I can only speak for myself here about the being upset thing,
but it’s not that I think the trade is bad. It very well may be a great trade. What I’m upset about is losing my favorite player (Lilly-not Theriot). This season has been disappointing to me to say the least. One of the few things I enjoyed was watching him pitch. Now they take that away, so I’m ticked. Sad to see him go and I wish him well. Simple as that.
"Fasten those seatbelts!"-Pat Hughes
The trade has no bearing on whether Lilly will return.
Unless there’s some information I’m missing.
Also, the Lilly trade was rumored for weeks.
I understand that you like him (so do I) but there was almost NO chance Lilly was going to be a Cub on Aug. 1.
If it makes the team better in the long run?
The dumbest thing a franchise can do is to hold onto players too long just because they are fan faves.
I always turn to the sports section first. The sports page records people's accomplishments; the front page has nothing but man's failures.
~Earl Warren
by lookingdeadred on Aug 2, 2010 10:45 AM CDT up reply actions
I agree.
"Lou Piniella's been a great manager for a long time and I stand by him completely"
Jim Hendry
by Doggie Stalker on Aug 2, 2010 11:12 AM CDT up reply actions
AND
(this is the thing that everyone forgets when they bitch about the trade) DeWitt was a 3rd baseman in the minors – hello solving three problems at once:
1. Freeing up some cash
2. Moving Theriot
3. Obtaining a backup for 3rd base
I Love Larry - Brick are you looking at random things around the room and saying that you love them - I Love Larry
Currently 34,839 on the Season Ticket Wait List - Expected age of being #0: 119
But we need a backup SS....
Having a back up 3b was never a “problem”, that’s what Baker’s for.
Nobody cares about your fantasy baseball team
by carmen_fanzone on Aug 2, 2010 1:58 PM CDT up reply actions
welp I was wrong again
is it possible..since he can play 3rd and 2nd that he would be able to backup ss?
I Love Larry - Brick are you looking at random things around the room and saying that you love them - I Love Larry
Currently 34,839 on the Season Ticket Wait List - Expected age of being #0: 119
No, I'm afraid we're stuck with Fonty being the back up SS...
..until September call ups.
Nobody cares about your fantasy baseball team
by carmen_fanzone on Aug 2, 2010 2:50 PM CDT up reply actions
We could drop Nady and Dome and bring up Fuld and Barney....
There, A real backup SS and a real backup OF….
Solved…..
Any post that recommends Sam Fuld to back up anything
is one I chuckle at.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Aug 2, 2010 3:13 PM CDT up reply actions
lol, now you're gonna piss off Jessica.
A lovely story:
One day, long, long ago, there lived a woman who didn't whine, nag or bitch. That would be me....
But that was a long time ago and it was just that one day.
The end
Believe me, your posts
no longer are a laughing matter.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Aug 3, 2010 2:09 AM CDT up reply actions
which having fonty back-up SS
and play a game a month there isnt bad on this team…we will see what happens this off-season – would like to see Barney get some playing time in September to see if he would be a servicable 2b or use as trade-bait for a 1b or used to unload a bad contract…
I Love Larry - Brick are you looking at random things around the room and saying that you love them - I Love Larry
Currently 34,839 on the Season Ticket Wait List - Expected age of being #0: 119
Did I say that?
Let me check. Nope.
Nobody cares about your fantasy baseball team
by carmen_fanzone on Aug 2, 2010 2:49 PM CDT up reply actions
The trade
We really won’t know if this was a good trade until we see the 2 prospects and what happens with them.
If they ever become good major leaguers it was a great trade/
If they make the majors and are average it was a good trade.
If they never make it it was really neither good or bad. UNless Dewitt amounts to something.
Formerly known as cubstoseriesby100. Thanks Al for letting me change my outdated screenname.
We'll see about Wallach tonight
He’s starting for Peoria against Beloit.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Aug 2, 2010 10:39 AM CDT up reply actions
As if this one start will make or break him
I always turn to the sports section first. The sports page records people's accomplishments; the front page has nothing but man's failures.
~Earl Warren
by lookingdeadred on Aug 2, 2010 10:43 AM CDT up reply actions
I never said it would
But he is starting tonight, so at least we can see him in action.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Aug 2, 2010 11:30 AM CDT up reply actions
Realistically it will tell us very little
so to say:
We’ll see about Wallach tonight
is premature.
I always turn to the sports section first. The sports page records people's accomplishments; the front page has nothing but man's failures.
~Earl Warren
by lookingdeadred on Aug 2, 2010 11:56 AM CDT up reply actions
Stop making sense
the Theodorables will have none of that. Like the DeRomantics before them, they will never let it go.
I always turn to the sports section first. The sports page records people's accomplishments; the front page has nothing but man's failures.
~Earl Warren
by lookingdeadred on Aug 2, 2010 10:42 AM CDT up reply actions
Nevertheless...
… in 2009, DeRosa could have helped the Cubs. Ted Lilly was of no value to the Cubs for the rest of this year. He might be in 2011; that’s for them to determine once the season is over. The two situations are not comparable.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
They are comparable
Keeping DeRo might have made the Cubs better in 2009, but it would not have made them good enough, and the point of trading him was to make the team better after two years of three and out in the playoffs.
I always turn to the sports section first. The sports page records people's accomplishments; the front page has nothing but man's failures.
~Earl Warren
by lookingdeadred on Aug 2, 2010 11:58 AM CDT up reply actions
It appears that only Archer will be of any real use from that deal.
If Archer becomes a good major league starter and helps the Cubs to the playoffs, I’ll be willing to say it was a good deal. Otherwise, it hurt the chances of the 2009 Cubs to make the playoffs.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
It didn't make
that much of a difference, Al. Not having Ramirez for half the season did.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Aug 2, 2010 2:08 PM CDT up reply actions
but DeRosa
would have been an acceptable fill-in for Ramirez for those games…wouldnt be able to replace all of the offensive numbers but would have done well…
I Love Larry - Brick are you looking at random things around the room and saying that you love them - I Love Larry
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Maybe, maybe not
Regardless, it wouldn’t have put the Cubs in first place.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Aug 2, 2010 2:36 PM CDT up reply actions
maybe-maybe not
I am not bothered by moving DeRosa at all – turned out we sold high on him (even though most people will say Hendry got lucky on this one and that we shouldnt have moved him) and hopefully the prospects turn into something…
I Love Larry - Brick are you looking at random things around the room and saying that you love them - I Love Larry
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People seem high on Archer
We’ll see.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Aug 2, 2010 2:44 PM CDT up reply actions
What about Stevens?
I’d be willing to bet he’ll be a servicable middle reliever. He’s pitched the ball well enough as a rookie this year.
You must have been watching a different Jeff Stevens.
The one who has pitched for the Cubs has a 6.11 ERA and a 1.755 WHIP and has allowed four homers in 17.2 innings.
That’s not “well enough”. That’s bad.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
Fair enough.
But he is still young and I’d be willing to bet that he’ll improve and be a servicable middle reliever. Is this year his first in the majors?
He pitched for the Cubs last year, too, and was just about as bad.
He’ll be 27 next month. I think we have to move on from him as “serviceable” and that he’ll improve.
Prime candidate for non-tender this winter.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
So you're saying deals can only be judged with the benefit of hindsight?
If Archer becomes a good major league starter and helps the Cubs to the playoffs, I’ll be willing to say it was a good deal. Otherwise, it hurt the chances of the 2009 Cubs to make the playoffs.
Decisions can fail and still have been the right decision.
Derosa appeared at the time to be expendable, and his salary space was needed to make up for the disappointing import in right field.
Hendry sold high, and turned it into 3 prospects. One doesn’t need the benefit of hindsight to see that was the right thing to do. Whether the decisions that followed were the right ones is a lot more debatable.
If you think DeRo being a Cub last year
would have helped them make the playoffs you are kidding yourself
I always turn to the sports section first. The sports page records people's accomplishments; the front page has nothing but man's failures.
~Earl Warren
by lookingdeadred on Aug 3, 2010 8:50 AM CDT up reply actions
I still hope
they at least try for Lee over Lilly – basically $10 million in salary and if you give him a complete NTC he might take a ill or two off…
I Love Larry - Brick are you looking at random things around the room and saying that you love them - I Love Larry
Currently 34,839 on the Season Ticket Wait List - Expected age of being #0: 119
Hey Al
How about removing those parenthesis around illness in your OP? Or do you consider an accelerated heart beat to be a frivolous thing? You’re looking as bad as some of the other posters in this thread.
I reject your reality and substitute my own.
by WayneCampbell08 on Aug 2, 2010 11:59 AM CDT reply actions
You meant the quotes
… they were designed to indicate that I was quoting someone, rather than treate it as frivolous.
However, I can see where that would be possibly confusing. I’ll fix it.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
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