Fontenot Traded; Shorthanded Cubs Lose Another One-Run Game, 5-4
SAN FRANCISCO -- I looked at the Cubs' announced lineup for last night and shook my head. There was only one player in it -- Alfonso Soriano -- who was a regular player for the team at the end of the 2009 season.
That's how big the Cubs' turnover is. The rest of the starting lineup included three rookies, one player acquired by trade, two free agents signed in the offseason and a bench player, both last year and this.
And, the Cubs were playing shorthanded because of the trade of Mike Fontenot to the Giants. Aramis Ramirez wasn't available due to a sore ribcage and Darwin Barney, who will replace Fontenot on both the 40-man and active rosters, hadn't arrived yet. It was an odd scene for Fontenot last night:"It's strange, being in the same town that you're traded to," Fontenot said. "I was telling someone I was trying to decide if I was going to work out or get a bite to eat and I was called into the office and told I was being traded."
"He's got a short little walk," Cubs acting manager Alan Trammell said. "I told him to take it easy on us. It's a good opportunity for Mike to go to a team that's in contention."
He was wearing a Cubs T-shirt and shorts when he got the news, changed into his street clothes and then walked down the hallway at AT&T Park to the home clubhouse where he got settled. He'll wear No. 14 with the Giants. Aubrey Huff has No. 17. The good news for Fontenot is that he will be reunited with another LSU buddy, Giants closer Brian Wilson.
It's the third year in a row that the Giants have made a deal with a team that was in town to play them. In 2008, they sent Ray Durham to the visiting Brewers and last year, they acquired Freddy Sanchez from the Pirates, who were in town.
Oh, you're waiting for the game recap? Right, there was a game last night, another one-run loss, 5-4 to the Giants. More on that after the jump.
Tom Gorzelanny started out like Tim Lincecum did the night before, getting hit all over northern California before the sun even set. (Actually, that "sunset" was just a rumor in the Bay Area yesterday -- nothing but clouds ever showed up in the San Francisco sky.) Trailing 3-0 before he could get the second out in the first inning, Gorz settled down and allowed only three hits until the sixth. The Cubs fought their way back into a tie via a Marlon Byrd home run and a four-hit barrage in the sixth inning off Barry Zito.
The rest of the game was more solo homers: the Giants taking the lead on an Aaron Rowand blast in the last of the sixth, the Cubs making it 4-4 with Tyler Colvin's 18th homer in the seventh, and then Pat Burrell hitting the game-winner off Justin Berg in the eighth.
Wait. Justin Berg? What was he doing in there with the game on the line? Andrew Cashner, who threw only 12 pitches the night before, probably should have replaced Berg.
And then, it was pretty obvious that even with only three bench players last night (Micah Hoffpauir, Koyie Hill and Kosuke Fukudome), Alan Trammell would send out a pinch-hitter for Welington Castillo to open up the ninth instead of sending the rookie out to face hard-throwing Giants closer Brian Wilson, and then also bat for Berg. But he put the two PH up there in the wrong order! (Congratulations to Castillo, incidentally, who doubled off Zito in his first MLB at-bat. Hope someone took a photo of the AT&T Park scoreboard during his next AB showing him batting 1.000.)
Fukudome, who has on-base skills, should have led off, followed then by Hoffpauir. Instead, Hoff was sent up to lead off, and, predictably, he struck out. Fukudome then beat out an infield hit, but was stranded.
Same old story -- another one-run loss, the team's 28th of the season.
The 11 rookie pitchers the Cubs have used this year -- Berg being one of them -- is a team record. So I asked baseball historian Ed Hartig what the overall club record for rookies in a year is -- the Cubs have used 14 in total, and it'll be 15 when Darwin Barney ("The Purple Evolutionist" -- great nickname) makes his debut.
The record is 27 -- set in 1902, and it was the youth of all those players that led newspaper headline writers to nickname the team "Cubs". That, of course, eventually stuck as the official name of the team. The good news is that only four years later, those Cubs went on a five-year run that included four pennants and two World Series wins.
A repeat of that would be nice. The game preview for today's afternoon season finale will post at 1:15 pm CDT. (For those in the area who are going to be at today's game, I still don't have a ticket. When I get one, I'll send out the location via the BCB Twitter account.)
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The aweful thing is, if 50% of those losses had gone the other way,
then the Cubs would now be 62-52 (.544)
If the Cubs still have a chance, no matter how small, it’s still Go Cubs, damn the math and pass the KoolAid.
Well...
…. that would make the one-run record 27-14, which isn’t realistic.
But even if they had a .500 record in one-run games — say, 21-20 — that would make the team record 56-58, which would put them 8.5 games out of first place instead of 16.5.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
I would have thought that the current one run record was equally unlikely back in March/April
If the Cubs still have a chance, no matter how small, it’s still Go Cubs, damn the math and pass the KoolAid.
The best record in MLB in one-run games appears to be...
… 18-12. By, of all teams, the Brewers.
The other thing is, the 41 one-run games is the most in baseball. Only one other team (the Royals, 18-22) has played 40. Most teams are in the low to mid 30’s in total one-run games, the fewest is 21, by the Yankees (12-9).
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
I think the Cubs are trying to see if Berg should figure into the mix next year.
I don’t think that’s a terrible idea, because I view what we’re watching now as spring training in August. Heck, this is probably a better litmus test, because the Cubs’ opponents DO have something to play for.
I suppose.
Berg isn’t doing very well. Of all the Cubs rookie pitchers this year, I think only Cashner and Russell are keepers.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
If Berg figures it out in the next couple months ...
the bullpen picture gets a lot brighter. Right now, I think we can assume that four spots are taken (Marmol, Marshall, Cashner and Russell). That leaves at least two spots, three if the Cubs go with a 12-man pitching staff.
The simple fact is that the Cubs don’t have that many bullpen options in the system whom we haven’t already seen. Diamond? Shark?
Finding one more decent reliever is something the Cubs should focus on down the stretch. I doubt it will be Berg, but he’s been better than a lot of the crap we’ve trotted out in 2010.
Yeah, I suppose you're right.
But Berg never was a real prospect — he was acquired in the deal in which Matt Lawton was dumped in 2005. He’s 26, so he’s not young. I think he’s another Jeff Stevens, basically Triple-A roster filler.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
I think the Cubs see a little more in Berg than they did in Stevens.
And now they’re giving him a shot. I’m not saying it will pay off, but it’s not like the stakes are very high right now.
FWIW, Rich Hill was absolutely clobbered during his first call up in 2006. He came back after Maddux was traded, pitched great, and was a big part of the 2007 playoff team.
My point is
that don’t compare Rich Hill “FWIW” with Justin Berg.
(rolls eyes)
It wasn’t meant as a 1-to-1 comparison. I was simply referring to the fact that giving a young pitcher a chance in a lost season can pay dividends down the road.
If said young
pitcher had anything, indeed.
Justin Berg clearly needs plenty of work. He is NOT an MLB pitcher.
Let's drop it.
I didn’t say that Berg was capable. I said the Cubs were trying to determine whether he is — and I mentioned another instance where a young guy got experience that helped the team in a following season.
Clear enough?
I completely understand
your logic, and do not agree that getting him PT in the bigs, for this guy, will make him that much better. We have no one else until September, and they want to see what they have. Understood. There are many more players at 27 that got released from teams, than succeeded and went on to productive rest of their careers. From what I have seen in-person, and on TV, Berg will end up the latter rather than the former. He has no out pitch – no velocity – and he is 27.
I'm not advocating for Berg.
I trying to explain what I THINK the CUBS are thinking.
Fine.
But again, comparing Berg’s situation with Hill’s – just weird.
And, obviously the Cubs are evaluating EVERYONE now. As someone else has said here – “Like its Spring Training in August”.
I actually said that (see above).
I don’t think it’s that weird a comparison. I also think Berg will be coaching college baseball by 2012.
Why Cashner?
I can understand thinking that it is likely that he stays in the bullpen, but he should be in AAA trying to learn how to be a starter.
I see it as a similar situation to Sean Marshall.
Assuming the Cubs don’t add a bunch of relievers, the team is more in need of relievers. Going into next year, Dempster, Gorzo, Wells, Silva and Z are all more likely to start than Cashner.
A lot can change, obviously, and who knows what will happen with Silva or Z? But Cashner has been really the only rookie who’s pitched well from the pen (Russell has been OK). As a result, I think he’ll stay there next year.
Goddamn that's a crappy rotation.
I don’t disagree that it will probably be our starting five, but that’s not a contending team’s rotation
by HuskerCorner on Aug 12, 2010 9:49 AM CDT up reply actions
It won't be our starting five.
Hendry will spend money on the rotation and at first. But the point is that we have a lot of guys in front of Cashner to make the rotation even BEFORE the offseason.
What makes you think that 2011 will be a contending year?
Our rotation next year should be Dempster, Z, Wells, Gorz, Jackson/Cashner
Are you advocating that rotation, or are you predicting?
Dollars to doughnuts says Hendry will sign another starter. And we’re talking doughnuts, so I think I’m safely predicting Jimbo’s actions.
Advocating
I think he probably will sign a free agent starter. And it won’t be Cliff Lee, so it will be a mistake. The only way this team contends next year is if they sign Cliff Lee and probably Adam Dunn. I don’t see that happening. Ergo, I want to build for 2012 and 2013.
I don't know.
I’d have to look at the available FA starters before I agree that anyone other than Cliff Lee would be a mistake. But I see almost NO possibility that Lee and Dunn are BOTH Cubs next year.
I have looked at them
I stand by my statement.
The best of the bunch:
Bedard, Bonderman, Duchsherer, Garland (team option), Lilly, Moyer, Penny, Pettitte, Sheets, Vazquez, Brandon Webb.
Sure, if you can get any of those guys at a bargain basement price, you consider it. But none of them are worth committing big dollars for a multi-year deal. Especially when you are already stocked with 3-4 types.
Brandon Webb is kinda hurt.
Haven’t we been there, done that?
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
Wade Miller or
Ryan Dempster?
"You've got to get your damn shirts rolled up and go out and kick somebody's ass. That's what you've got to do. Period." -- Lou Piniella
I'm an advocate for taking flyers like the Cubs did with Dempster.
But Dempster really wasn’t that big a factor for the Cubs until his second year with the club.
True.
Dempster was also 27 when the Cubs signed him.
Wade Miller was 29. Webb is 31. Big difference.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
Wow. Dempster was only 27?
As an old professor of mine used to say, time’s fun when you’re having flies.
LOL
Love that line. Yes, two different teams (Marlins and Reds) both gave up on Dempster before he turned 27.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
Proof positive ...
that there was a time when Hendry deserved our trust. But aside from Marlon Byrd, every big-money signing he’s made since the 2007 NLDS has been a borderline disaster.
Byrd isn't really big money...
…He’s more slightly above average money, like Mark DeRosa before him. These types of deals have worked for JH.
"You've got to get your damn shirts rolled up and go out and kick somebody's ass. That's what you've got to do. Period." -- Lou Piniella
Yeah, it's definitely a tweener deal.
But I criticize Hendry for Miles, Nady and Grabow, so I’ll give him credit for Byrd.
I thought about Webb too
But, then I read somewhere that he wants to be a middle reliever next year. That makes you go hmm, and makes you think he might be done.
True but Dempster came back as a reliever
and after a few seasons got back to being a solid starter. Not saying he’s the rule, but it could ease a guy like Webb back into the game.
"You've got to get your damn shirts rolled up and go out and kick somebody's ass. That's what you've got to do. Period." -- Lou Piniella
But as I said above.
Dempster was 27 when he did that. Webb is 31.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
True.
But Webb was a far better pitcher than Demster ever has been or probably ever will be. See if he can get “it” back. He’s a sinker-ball pitcher, let him tinker with it out of the pen for awhile or in AAA, and let him start when he’s ready.
"You've got to get your damn shirts rolled up and go out and kick somebody's ass. That's what you've got to do. Period." -- Lou Piniella
Works for me.
But the deal would have to be heavy on incentives.
Webb and Bedard would be great "packed with incentives" pickups
With Fukudome,Silva and Grabow coming off the books after 2011. You could probably backload Dunn’s deal and push the incentives of a Webb or Bedard back onto the 2012 books if you needed to.
Would Colvin,Hak Lee, Wells, and Jay Jackson be enough to get Zack Greinke?
" Tell me something Steve, How does a guy from Puerto Rico loose a ball in the Sun? "
Maybe.
I’m not a big fan of Jay Jackson, but some think he’s a very good prospect.
"You've got to get your damn shirts rolled up and go out and kick somebody's ass. That's what you've got to do. Period." -- Lou Piniella
Much different situation than Sean Marshall
Marshall was brought up as a starter, and was always borderline as a starter. Cashner was rushed as a reliever to get him to the big club. He still hasn’t had time to develop as a starter, or even get a chance there. If in 3 seasons (ala Marshall) he doesn’t distinguish himself as a starter, than putting him in the bullpen is a good move. Not trying your first round pick as a starter after going to all the effort to convert him from a college reliever is a dumb move.
I see your point.
But I’d be OK with Cashner in the bullpen to start 2011 if it means the Cubs don’t overpay for more John Grabow types.
Why?
I don’t see 2011 as a contending year anyways. Cashner has the highest (or maybe 2nd highest depending on how high you are on Archer) ceiling of any arm in our minors. If we are trying to build a contending rotation from within he should be given a chance. He can always be moved back to the bullpen if he shows he can’t get it done as a starter. But, he was absolutely dominating AAA as a starter before he was brought up. Still need to see more from him as a starter before relegating him to the bullpen.
To both of you ...
I said “John Grabow types” — by which I mean “mediocre relievers who con Jimbo into multiyear deals.” If Hendry can find a better relievers on a 1-year deal, then I’m with you.
But when was the last time Hendry was able to get a good reliever on a 1-year deal? Scott Williamson?
Why is it either/or?
I see overpaying for a Grabow-type to be completely independent from putting Cashner in the pen. You should never over-pay for a Grabow-type even if you have a need in the pen. Especially in what looks to be a non-contending year.
It's an either/or ...
because our GM doesn’t do well/has given up on finding cheap, veteran relievers. Unless you count Chad Fox.
My point is this
I would rather have a gaping gigantic hole in our bullpen next year and try Cashner as a starter than fill the hole with Cashner.
And I understand that. But I think you're thinking is rather "blue sky".
The only way Cashner is in the big-league rotation in 2011 is if Z and Silva aren’t on the team. The only way Cashner is starting in Iowa is if a couple other young relievers prove that they can be seventh-inning guys (unlikely), Hendry spends money on relievers (unlikely, ill-advised but sadly possible) or if he finds scrap-heap veterans who can do the job cheaply and effectively (almost impossible to consider, considering Jimbo’s recent history).
My thinking is how a competent organization would run things
If there is a choice between Silva and Cashner, you choose Cashner every day of the week. Silva is roster-filler in 2011. Z is a little different story because he is also under contract in 2011 and frankly is a much better pitcher. But, if I was running the Cubs, I would start Cashner in AAA to start the season and depending on how he develops, bring him up to replace Silva etc. in the rotation.
I actually think this is what the Cubs would like to do.
I think it’s why they’re giving Berg such a hard look right now. If Berg can somehow become a decent 7th-inning guy (unlikely, I know) that means there’s less of a need for Cashner in the big-league bullpen next year.
I think they need to make a hard decision on Diamond and Smardzjia
With Wells and Gorz already on board, and Jackson/Cashner/Archer/Carpenter waiting in the wings, I can’t see those guys with a shot to be in the Cubs rotation. With Diamond, I think the choice is easy. Shark might be a little tougher choice. But, might have to be made.
Are you saying Diamond and Shark ...
should be considered possible relievers next year? I’m not arguing — just asking for clarification.
Yes
Diamond for sure, Shark maybe. I also think Silva should be a reliever next year too.
I also wonder the status of Guzman and Caridad. Not saying those are primary options, but should be considered in Spring Training next year.
Oh, God.
Let’s not count on Esmalin Caridad again. Ever.
Diamond and Shark should be considered, though.
Or Guzman for that matter.
I’ve always felt bad for Angel. He’s got terrific stuff but just can’t stay healthy.
"You've got to get your damn shirts rolled up and go out and kick somebody's ass. That's what you've got to do. Period." -- Lou Piniella
At least Angel put together a good season in the bigs.
Some BCBers were citing Marmol to justify making Caridad the primary setup guy after less than 20 major-league innings!
Shark has been good
as a starter this season in Iowa…I say leave him there, see if he can continue to develop.
As for Diamond, I think he’d be solid as a set-up guy, maybe a 7th inning type. His FB sits in the 88-89 range as a starter, gotta figure that goes up as a reliever, he’s got good strikeout stuff from what I’ve seen of him. He’s not young…he may realize that with his injury history, becoming a reliever makes sense for him. I could see him as a Joe Borowski type guy, without JoBo’s slider though.
"You've got to get your damn shirts rolled up and go out and kick somebody's ass. That's what you've got to do. Period." -- Lou Piniella
Well, if the Cubs can't find a decent 7th-inning guy
over the entire offseason and even into spring-training, then they are more incompetent than what BLouggie Stalker says.
In other words, if the Cubs mindset is to have Cashner start, he should start. He’s not that vital of a piece in next year’s bullpen to alter that mindset. OTOH, if he’s in the bullpen next year, it’s because the Cubs want him to be.
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
When was the last time ...
the Cubs did anything impressive when it comes to the bullpen when the pitcher wasn’t from within the organization? Remember, we’ve seen just about every relief option currently under team control, and only Russell and Cashner have proved to be worth anything.
That's kinda my point. They have to go outside for at least 1 arm.
I think this year has clearly exposed the lack of decent bullpen arms in our ML-ready system. And when I say clearly, I mean clear enough for even Hendry and anyone else in mgmt to see.
So if they stick to the same old same old for next year, then that will be a damning statement on Cubs mgmt, at least IMO.
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
When it comes to the bench and the bullpen ...
the Cubs need to take a page from the Cardinals book: Don’t overpay, look for ST bargains and ease young guys in with low-pressure roles.
The Cubs overpay for bench players and relievers and torch youngsters by putting them in pressure situations. Either the youngsters flat don’t have the talent, or they flame out mentally after getting their brains beaten in by opposing teams.
Howry and Eyre?
At least in 2006-07. Before that? Probably have to go back to Kent Mercker, Mike Remlinger, Mark Guthrie, etc…
"You've got to get your damn shirts rolled up and go out and kick somebody's ass. That's what you've got to do. Period." -- Lou Piniella
I don't know if I'd consider Howry and Eyre "impressive."
The Howry signing was probably worthwhile, despite his awful 2008. The Eyre signing might have been worth it if Lou wasn’t an idiot when it came to Scott, err Stevie.
Spending a lot of money on a reliever who pans out isn’t a bad thing. But impressive? Not in my eyes.
Remlinger in Mercker
were very solid.
Howry was awesome in 2006, but the team sucked. They both were bad in 2008.
"You've got to get your damn shirts rolled up and go out and kick somebody's ass. That's what you've got to do. Period." -- Lou Piniella
Scott Eyre is broke
" Tell me something Steve, How does a guy from Puerto Rico loose a ball in the Sun? "
Yes
That they don’t view trying him as a starter to be a priority and will go with the path of least resistance and keep him in the bullpen.
The only reason ...
why this scenario doesn’t worry me as much as it (apparently) worries you is that I think Cashner’s stay in the bullpen would end after 2011.
I wonder if anyone inside the Cubs would consider putting Wells in the pen and Cashner in the rotation?
I would trade Wells
before I put him in the pen. Or at least explore the idea, see if you could get something in return, like an actual reliever.
"You've got to get your damn shirts rolled up and go out and kick somebody's ass. That's what you've got to do. Period." -- Lou Piniella
Is that because ...
you think Wells is more valuable as a trade-bait starter than a reliever for the Cubs?
Yes,
I don’t think his stuff translates well into a reliever…He gives up a lot of hits.
Why decrease his value as a starter? Might as well trade him.
"You've got to get your damn shirts rolled up and go out and kick somebody's ass. That's what you've got to do. Period." -- Lou Piniella
I doubt it
That doesn’t make a lot of sense to me either. Wells seems pretty well suited to the 4/5 slot in the rotation. I can’t see him being a dominating relief pitcher, so it doesn’t seem like a good move.
The problem with your solution is that Cashner has never been a starter. You need to stretch him out as far as innings go. You can’t all of a sudden expect him to throw 180 innings. You don’t want to increase him more than 20-30 innings per year. That is a big difference between someone like him and Phil Hughes or Wainwright.
He threw 100 IP in 2009 and is on pace to throw around 100 IP this year. We needed it to be around 130 this year, so we can get him up to 150-160 in 2011 and 180-190 in 2012. The one thing I will say is that he is at about 80 IP right now. If the Cubs move him back to the rotation and get him 6-8 more starts he could get up to 120 IP and keep stretching his arm out.
In that case ...
I’d send Cash down to Iowa NOW so he can get a few starts before the season ends.
That would be my choice
Send him down to start until the Iowa season is over and then give him a few starts here.
I'd almost rather slightly overpay a reliever for a 1 yr deal
And put Cashner back in AAA to start just to see what we are actually working with. I think he has a lot of potential as a starter if he can develop one more pitch and better command, which he was starting to do in AAA before the call up.
So basically, we traded DeRosa for nothing?
And before someone calls me a Deromantic, I’m not. I just think he could have been dealt for an actual piece, not three AAAA middle relievers
by HuskerCorner on Aug 12, 2010 8:51 AM CDT up reply actions
Um...
… Chris Archer isn’t a “AAAA middle reliever”. He could be a rotation starter as soon as next year.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
That's fair.
But you shouldn’t believe that we got nothing for DeRo yet, either. The jury is decidedly out right now.
Go take a look at what Archer is doing at Double A.
And note that he doesn’t turn 22 until next month. He’s a keeper.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
I certainly hope he pans out
But I ALWAYS take a “believe it when I see it” approach to Cubs prospects.
Hopefully he proves me wrong then.
by HuskerCorner on Aug 12, 2010 8:58 AM CDT up reply actions
Yeah, usually I take that same approach.
But Archer has dominated two levels this year. He is currently 7-1 with a 0.58 ERA in eight starts at Double-A. This time, I think we have one.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
Been touted as moving up to the #1 pitching prospect for the Cubs
With a legit shot to be a strong #2. I enjoy his ERA and all that, but they guy has a 58% GB / 11% LD ratio. Add that to 9k/9 and you’ve got yourself a seriously nasty pitcher. Not only does he miss bats, but when they make contact it’s most likely not good.
Only thing that concerns me is his walk rate has jumped since moving to AA – but that may just be a small sample size for now.
I really hope
That Archer pans out, just so we won’t have to hear about DeRosa for the next 5-10 years.
by JSB on Aug 12, 2010 10:07 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1
I am sick of the DeRomantics and the DeRo-like-likers – while the guy has hit for pop and would have been useful last year at 3rd he is most likely in the downhill side of his career…
I Love Larry - Brick are you looking at random things around the room and saying that you love them - I Love Larry
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by hansman1982 on Aug 12, 2010 10:51 AM CDT up reply actions
Not to start the same old fight
But the cubs really needed a back up third baseman and where missing pop for the middle of the order last year while Rami was out. DeRo would have filled that roll perfectly.
DeRo being traded was not the only reason the Cubs didn’t make the playoffs but it was a major reason.
Hindsight is always 20/20 but I ask you, would you trade the three prospects we got to increase the chances of the cubs making the playoffs by 50%.
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by BrewCrew'sPrinceofDarkness on Aug 12, 2010 11:42 AM CDT up reply actions
I don't dwell on the past or try and guess what one player may have changed.
It’s all guess work, no one knows. Maybe when Rami gets hurt Dero goes down right after him and we’re in the same spot. No one knows what could’ve happened – but we do know that Archer is a legit #2 pitching prospect that is only about a year away from ready.
"it's all guess work, no one knows."
doesn’t that apply to the future as well?
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
You wouldn't have increased the Cubs chances of making the playoffs by 50%
DeRosa has never been more than a 3-4 WAR player. The Cubs finished 7.5 games back. DeRosa wasn’t the difference.
I'm a believer in using stats
but when you look at how that team fell apart while Rami’s bat was out and then started to win when he came back you cant tell me a big bat in the middle of that lineup (DeRo had 25 homers berfore the allstar break?) Would not have really aided that struggling line up?
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by BrewCrew'sPrinceofDarkness on Aug 12, 2010 12:42 PM CDT up reply actions
and DeRo
hasnt really been a season changer since he left the cubs…I say even if Archer turns into a 4-5 starter it was a decent trade
I Love Larry - Brick are you looking at random things around the room and saying that you love them - I Love Larry
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by hansman1982 on Aug 12, 2010 10:49 AM CDT up reply actions
I agree
just saying even if he is a pumpkin we came out good…
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by hansman1982 on Aug 12, 2010 12:44 PM CDT up reply actions
Getting a wrist injury after leaving the Cubs didn't help DeRo either
RIP Ronnie James Dio (July 10, 1942 - May 16, 2010).
Berg seems to get rattled easily and rush things at times.
If I were the Cubs, I’d move Diamond into the pen and see what he can offer. See if he can add 3-4 MPH to his FB as a reliever. I doubt Diamond is going to figure into the Cubs’ long term plans as a starter, but he could.
"You've got to get your damn shirts rolled up and go out and kick somebody's ass. That's what you've got to do. Period." -- Lou Piniella
How about a "standby" player
The Cubs have now lost two games in which they were 2 players short and while I don’t want rehash the first one, I think there is a lack of co-ordination & foresight on the Cubs part. I assume the Cubs would be happy to trade Nady, Dome, Baker etc , I say they get a back up player available at all times. Bring someone from the minors to hang around at all times. Rotate it weekly, like a prize. One week an infielder, the next week an outfielder , etc. Seems about the only way to stop short handed games.
P.S Yes I am kidding but the situation was very frustrating and indicative to me that management just does not care that much about winning individual games.
"Lou Piniella's been a great manager for a long time and I stand by him completely"
Jim Hendry
The Fontenot deal...
…. probably wouldn’t have been done this way, except the Giants got desperate for an infielder after Edgar Renteria got hurt on Tuesday night. Remember, he almost got traded to the Giants at the deadline.
It’s not so much “caring about winning individual games” as it is taking advantage of an opportunity when it comes.
Once again, you fail to see the forest for the trees.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
I am half kidding Al
What happened Monday was worse to me. They seem incapable of planning ahead. Hard to believe the Fontenot deal just happened in the afternoon without the slightest clue that morning. At the very least Barney should have been kept out of yesterday’s game. Playing two games down two players in which the bench mattered is no way to run a railroad.
"Lou Piniella's been a great manager for a long time and I stand by him completely"
Jim Hendry
by Doggie Stalker on Aug 12, 2010 9:08 AM CDT up reply actions
So wait.
You’re now blaming Hoffpauir and Castillo for being late because they missed their plane because of thunderstorms in Iowa and Minnesota?
Great. So now you think the Cubs need to control the weather, too.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
You really don't want to rehash Monday Al
I am not blaming it on anything to do with weather. They did not miss any game because of weather.
"Lou Piniella's been a great manager for a long time and I stand by him completely"
Jim Hendry
by Doggie Stalker on Aug 12, 2010 9:36 AM CDT up reply actions
NOBODY WANTS TO REHASH MONDAY
Both of you either need to stop bickering, or make out.
by HuskerCorner on Aug 12, 2010 9:37 AM CDT up reply actions
It was all me
I went to the airport, held them up until they gave me autographs, and then let them go, but it was too late.
I don’t think The Hoff’s autograph will be worth much; it says “My name’s not David.” Thought he looked different from Baywatch…
I care a helluva lot more about the future of this team ...
than winning games in this lost season. I doubt I’m alone. So if the Cubs make a deal to help the 2011 squad at the expense of losing a game in a hopeless season, who cares?
Gosh.
You and I have agreed three times in this thread alone. I better watch again for earthquakes today.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
Kiko Calero! Jeff Baker in right! Stop citing historical examples of turnaround as reason for hope!
Feel better? :)
I knew that.
Actually, that was pretty funny.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
Agreed
I get what Jessica is saying, but worrying about individual wins at this point in the season is pretty freaking pointless.
Wins take a back seat to rebuilding, and setting up auditions for 2011.
by HuskerCorner on Aug 12, 2010 8:55 AM CDT up reply actions
If they had cared about individual wins, they wouldn't have let Lou stay past June.
It’s absolutely amazing to me how similar Lou’s last year has been compared to Dusty’s.
by HuskerCorner on Aug 12, 2010 8:54 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
And, the roster is being stripped of players in a similar way.
People forget, but Jim Hendry sent FIVE players from that 2006 team to the playoffs that year.
Yes, five: Todd Walker, Scott Williamson, Greg Maddux, Neifi Perez and Phil Nevin all went from the last-place Cubs to a postseason team.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
I'm not trying to be snippy, but so what?
People forget, because it’s not really relevant
by HuskerCorner on Aug 12, 2010 8:56 AM CDT up reply actions
You were snippy.
Just making a comment, that’s all. Maybe he’ll do the same this year.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
Yes I was, and for once I'll apologize
but it seemed like you were trying to give Jim credit for doing something most bad teams do or try to do this time of year.
by HuskerCorner on Aug 12, 2010 9:02 AM CDT up reply actions
No worries.
Again, just making a comment. Actually it was surprising he managed to do that for so many players.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
Not that I would ever advocate tanking
But look at these standings – it’s not out of the realm of possibly that the Cubs could play their way into the No. 3 overall pick next year.
Again, not that I’d advocate intentionally short-handing one’s bench or trying to lose.
I love to play baseball. I'm a baseball player. I've always been a baseball player. I'm still a baseball player. That's who I am. - Ryne Sandberg
3rd???? BOOOOOOOO!
We want to be number one! And in the last 10 games the Cubs have the worst record in baseball. We can keep that up we can be number one! Only 7 games in front of Pittsburg.
Come on Lou! Keep sleeping through games. Every player making over 10 million a year call it quits before you hurt yourself.
With that kind of team effort we can catch the Pirates and Draft Anthony Rendon!
(This story was produced by BCPDnewservice. Our motto: If you don’t like this story then suck it!)
by BrewCrew'sPrinceofDarkness on Aug 12, 2010 11:45 AM CDT up reply actions
I think I'm past caring about that.
Hendry and Tribune Co. mortgaged the future for a shot to win in after 2006. Additional signings in the 2007m 2008 and 2009 offseasons (Kosuke, MB, Miles, Nady) were mostly poor attempts to make patchwork fixes on a ship that was mostly locked in until after 2010.
This is the low point, and it’s been much lower than I expected — but then I didn’t expect Lee and Ramirez to have such terrible years and for Zambrano to continue regressing.
Fortunately, unlike 2006, we have young position players getting a chance to show what they can do. The Cubs won’t have to spend like drunken sailors — for multiple offseasons — to fix this mess. And that dulls the pain of what we’re seeing now.
It would dull the pain if the guy who got us into this mess wasn't still employed.
For that reason, the high payroll and the incredibly low return still chaps my hide
by HuskerCorner on Aug 12, 2010 9:10 AM CDT up reply actions
We saw it coming 3 years away.
And yet everyone is shocked by this. Like EG said, worse than I expected, but unfortunately, it was expected.
That's more generous than I'm trying to be, bdlugz.
Hendry’s FA signings after 2007 have all pretty much blown up in his face. He did get Johnson and Edmonds in spring 2008, but otherwise …
The 2006-07 offseason moves were for big money, but they all worked out relatively well, though Soriano’s deal will likely get worse. The moves made to supplement that team (Bradley, Fukudome, Miles, Nady, Grabow) have been absolutely disastrous.
I point this out because I don’t think we’ve seen this coming from three years away. Hendry made terrible subsequent moves that REALLY messed things up.
He's definitely made it worse in the short term.
However, I mean big picture, we knew there was going to be a down time. I think the down time is that much worse BECAUSE of moves made in the last year and a half, but even with better moves I don’t think we’d be competing right now.
Moves like Miles and Nady and Grabow, while stupid, aren’t the ones that handcuff you from signing that guy that’s REALLY going to put this team over the top.
You conveniently forgot to mention Bradley and Fukudome ...
moves made post-2007 that really hurt this team.
I don't think fukudome was a huge mistake at the time.
Obviously it hasn’t worked out, but Hendry wasn’t even the top bidder – luck of the draw on that one.
As for Bradley, yes, that was obviously the worst deal. However, it still netted us a decent SP for this year… in fact, our best SP through about 15 starts, so I don’t think that move killed our 2010 chances either.
Your caveat about Fukudome really doesn't matter.
Nor does the caveat about the MB deal. The Cubs greatly reduced their roster and payroll flexibility by two deals worth $78 million — and the return has been minimal.
The hindsight defense for the Kosuke deal and the lemons-out-of-lemonade defense for the Bradley deal don’t hold water. They were both disasters.
And I'm not trying to say they werent.
Wasn’t really my point to argue that.
I don't really disagree that much.
I’m not in the camp who says that posters who suggest Hendry’s termination MUST nominate a better replacement … but I understand the sentiment. I’d take Hendry over some of the clowns who were in the front office before Jimbo.
so would I, but that's not relevant
It’s not like we’d replace Hendry with Ed Wade (at least we wouldn’t unless Tom Ricketts is the next Rachel Phelps)
We would have replaced him with someone who I would think was competent. And there’s a good chance he would do a better job than what Jim has done
by HuskerCorner on Aug 12, 2010 9:14 AM CDT up reply actions
As long as Crane Kenney is nowhere near those interviews....
Ugh, that just scares me.
And that is why is
it is so hard to accept the failed season . So many fans think that it will happen again and again . Ownership has not dealt with the issues that the fans are concerned about .
What?
What should ownership do, midseason, that it hasn’t done? Other than firing Hendry — which I could get behind — what could Ricketts have done midseason?
I really hoped the organization had turned a corner a few years ago
and after being one of the best teams in the league two short years ago, they are back to where they’ve always been. I know they have some decent prospects and there are some growing pains with new ownership but still it’s just so damn disappointing.
They just keep asking for more and more patience and then there’s always an excuse as to why they’re not winning.
I enjoyed the game.
After the awful three run Giant first, the Cubs outscored them, and there were no errors. Perhaps DeWitt should have slid, though. I can’t tell from the replay if anyone on the Cubs was in his sight line to signal to him to slide.
One of Lee Elia's 15%
He was beat by 5-7 feet - he'd have never gotten by in a slide.
His only hope was to knock the ball out.
I thought he had a shot with a slide because the throw was high. Maybe not.
One of Lee Elia's 15%
by waiting4cubs on Aug 12, 2010 9:28 AM CDT up reply actions
Was a little high, but Posey literally had time to turn and set himself perfectly.
He certainly would’ve gotten a tag down.
DeWitt
Fits right in this organization. So-so on defense, so-so at the plate and can’t score from 1B on a double. This organization needs better athletes all the way around.
"When the day comes with that last winning run and I'm crying and covered in beer. I'll look to the sky and know I was right to think someday we'll go all the way." - Vedder
Isn't DeWitt still learning to play second?
But totally agree on his speed. He’s definitely below average in that regard.
The more I watch Dewitt, the less I understand trading for him
He’s not really impressive in any regard. He’s basically a younger Mike Fontenot.
He’s not a BAD player, but I would have rather gotten a better prospect thrown in as opposed to him
by HuskerCorner on Aug 12, 2010 9:24 AM CDT up reply actions
He reminds me of Fontenot, too.
My hope is that he’ll improve defensively, so he bucks that comparison. If he doesn’t, then the 2006 parallels continue, and Blake DeWitt is the new Cesar Izturis.
I will give DeWitt credit is that the one area in which he appears to be an improvement
over Fontenot is that DeWitt can actually hit lefties (.279 this season)
by HuskerCorner on Aug 12, 2010 9:33 AM CDT up reply actions
He also can ably play more positions.
DeWitt is an upgrade at third over Fontenot.
Yeah, but we already have a third baseman who can sort of play 2nd
in Baker, so I don’t get that excited about that. Like I said, I didn’t really see the point of acquiring him at the time, and the more I see him play, the less sense it makes
by HuskerCorner on Aug 12, 2010 9:39 AM CDT up reply actions
I understand your point.
But DeWitt clearly has more upside than Baker. And he’s left-handed.
Agreed, but his upside has a very low ceiling.
You can’t tell me that there aren’t some other kids in our farm who couldn’t do what he can do.
by HuskerCorner on Aug 12, 2010 9:44 AM CDT up reply actions
I hope you're wrong, HC.
But you might be right.
DeWitt actually does have some upside.
He has shown the potential to be a decent power hitter. He also plays well above average defense at 3B, so the thought process is that he will learn to play 2nd in time.
He’s cost controlled for awhile still and gives us, at worst, a good left handed backup for multiple positions.
DeWitt was a top 5 prospect in the Dodgers organization that was rushed up faster than they wanted.
He came up from the minors with a .174 ISO. Comapre that to Fontenot’s .146 ISO in the minors and you’re looking at a pretty decent increase in power potential.
Now, DeWitt hasn’t even played 2 full seasons worth of games, and he’s been moved from his natural position. He’s put up a .117 ISO in the majors, a full .057 lower. I think once he gets comfortable and gets a full season at 2nd under his belt (he’s played 116 games TOTAL at 2nd, 87 coming this year), I think we’ll see some power come back.
The guy had 3 season in the minors slugging between .430 and .470. I think we’d all be very happy to see that out of our 2B.
And I should have been more clear.
I don’t think he’s going to go out and rock 20 HR. But I think he could hit 10-15 with very good gap power.
He flashed some power in the minors
He had ISO’s around .180 in the minors. Decent power for a middle infielder if he can stick at 2B. The two things I like about the DeWitt deal is (1) he was a good prospect that got to the majors at age 22 and is still only 24; and (2) he builds a very cheap bridge to Lee or one of the numerous lower-echelon 2B types we have in our system (Flaherty, LeMahieu, Watkins). Sure beats the heck out of overpaying for a “John Grabow-type” 2B.
We play DeWitt next year. If he sucks, then something else (Rickie Weeks!) for 2012. If he is decent, then keep him around.
Wait, can John Grabow play 2B?!
I bet he’s scrappy!
Dewitt is a giant nothing
Every Triple A team has a guy just as good as him on their roster, probably better defensively too!
"Any player who gets the opportunity to play at Wrigley should welcome it"
Not, he's nothing more than a jouneyman guy, topping out as a Skip Schumaker
and he’s the worst 2nd baseman in our division.
"Any player who gets the opportunity to play at Wrigley should welcome it"
Wrong, I looked at the stats
I’d take Walker, Keppinger, Phillips, or Schumaker over this guy. He’s just a guy, period.
"Any player who gets the opportunity to play at Wrigley should welcome it"
What stats?
This year’s stats? Schumaker at 26 (2 years older than DeWitt is now) posted a .076 ISO in 400+ plate appearances in AAA. DeWitt isn’t an all-star, but he has potential and sure is a better choice for a rebuilding team than Schumaker or Keppinger.
So, if we're lucky, he's a little better than Skip! Big deal!
Gimme a vet than can hit like Keppinger any day. I am hoping we have something better than Dewitt in the minors right now for our rebuilding project and Dewitt can tide us over till that guy comes up.
"Any player who gets the opportunity to play at Wrigley should welcome it"
Keppinger sucks
I have no idea why you would rather have Keppinger over DeWitt. Keppinger is 30 years old and has never hit in his life. His career wOBA is only .321 with .111 ISO. I have no idea why you would want him on your team.
Agreed.
Just because he kills the Cubs doesn’t mean that he’s good. See: Blauser, Jeff.
"You've got to get your damn shirts rolled up and go out and kick somebody's ass. That's what you've got to do. Period." -- Lou Piniella
No one said he's that good
Just better
"Any player who gets the opportunity to play at Wrigley should welcome it"
Whatever
Dewitt is just a guy and I’d like to see more from that spot, period. The best thing about him is his cheapness, I can live with that if it allows us to get bet in other spots. I just have to believe if Dewitt had any real value, they wouldn’t have traded him for 2 months of Lilly and the negative value of Riot.
"Any player who gets the opportunity to play at Wrigley should welcome it"
The best thing about him is you have a 2B that is 24.
Who is capable of putting up a line of .275/.355/.430 while most likely playing above average defense at 2nd. He’s miles ahead of what we’ve had there this year, and better than anyove above A ball for us.
You realize he a top 5 organizational prospect for the dodgers TWO YEARS AGO. He’s been shoved around like Samardzija has, so let’s get him settled and see what he can do.
Keppinger is making $1.15 million.
That’s about three times more than DeWitt. So I guess you’re a fan of signing mediocre veterans for lots of money.
LOL!
(This story was produced by BCPDnewservice. Our motto: If you don’t like this story then suck it!)
by BrewCrew'sPrinceofDarkness on Aug 12, 2010 11:48 AM CDT up reply actions
particularly athletes that do everything well
Too many times guys who are “toolsy” get drafted by virtue of having good speed, good glove work, good hitting, etc.. I’d like for the Cubs to either begin developing guys with great all around skills, or at worst guys with 1-2 superior talents.
I'll go to my grave believing Armando Galarraga tossed the 21st perfect game in MLB history.
Wel, Wel, Welington
Castillo!
(Anybody else humming the same tune?)
Somebody take Aramis' bat off the restricted list, please.
The old commercial
Well, well, Wellington (Call Now!)
Am I THAT old?
Somebody take Aramis' bat off the restricted list, please.
Didn't see the game...
…But Colvin and Castro with multi-hit games, and another HR from Colvin, kind of a clutch one too. And Nady out-produced Hoff’s performance from the other night and even got an RBI!
"You've got to get your damn shirts rolled up and go out and kick somebody's ass. That's what you've got to do. Period." -- Lou Piniella
So, if Lou hadn't been such a stone head about starting Colvin more often earlier in the year
He’d have to be heavily considered in the rookie of the year chase wouldn’t he?
And on a similar note, who IS considered the favorite to win the NL ROY?
Colvin's numbers are decent -- but I'd say Castro is a better candidate for ROY.
And I don’t think that would have changed if Tyler got more playing time.
You don't think Colvin finishing the season with somewhere in the vicinity of 30 homers
would have changed that?
Assuming he gets to 20 (a pretty safe assumption) despite the fact that he went stretches were he played twice in 2 weeks, I think it’s also a safe assumption that 30 wouldn’t have been out of the realm of possibility if Lou had simply given him the 2-3 starts a week he promised when the season began.
30 homers is pretty impressive for your major league debut
by HuskerCorner on Aug 12, 2010 9:12 AM CDT up reply actions
He could still get close to 30 regardless.
He’s got 18 now and hits homers at a good enough rate. I’d be he finishes with 25, but 30 is possible although unlikely. I agree with you though, if he’d played more early, and remember he was red-hot coming out of spring training, he’d probably be a lock to finish with 30. That being said, I still feel that Castro is more likely to be ROY and the east coast media will hype up Heyward. Posey is also having a strong rookie campaign in SF. Same for Garcia in StL. I’d guess Colvin finishes 5th in the voting.
"You've got to get your damn shirts rolled up and go out and kick somebody's ass. That's what you've got to do. Period." -- Lou Piniella
A lot of hypotheticals.
But Castro has been more impressive to me.
Heyward has been considered the front runner
but Colvin’s numbers compare favorably to his especially given that he has played 75 fewer games and not had the same opportunities as Heyward for runs & rbis. Heyward is much better defensive player and his team is likely going to the post season. It will an interesting vote.
"Lou Piniella's been a great manager for a long time and I stand by him completely"
Jim Hendry
by Doggie Stalker on Aug 12, 2010 9:17 AM CDT up reply actions
OOPS 75 Fewer AT BATS not GAMES
Right up there with my comment that Diamond through 120 innings in a game
"Lou Piniella's been a great manager for a long time and I stand by him completely"
Jim Hendry
by Doggie Stalker on Aug 12, 2010 9:31 AM CDT up reply actions
At this point, I think Buster Posey has to be a strong favorite for ROY.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
I think I'd vote...
Posey
Castro
Heyward
Garcia
If I had to vote today.
Going by WAR
Heyward: 2.7
Garcia: 2.5
Posey: 2.5
Castro: 2.3
Colvin: 1.9
Add in the subjective factors (playoffs, position etc.) my vote is:
(1) Posey
(2) Heyward
(3) Castro
(4) Garcia
(5) Colvin (might be someone missing I would put above Colvin)
Looks about right.
Not sure if you’re missing anyone really.
"You've got to get your damn shirts rolled up and go out and kick somebody's ass. That's what you've got to do. Period." -- Lou Piniella
Heyward had a two-month head start on Posey.
Posey ought to pass him soon.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
Agreed
The NL crop of rookies is truly fantastic this year. Great young players at premium positions.
Last year it seemed like there were more pitchers...
…but this year there is a C, SS, 2 Corner OFs, and LHP in what should be the top 5, pretty good group. And Colvin and Garcia kind of came out of nowhere.
"You've got to get your damn shirts rolled up and go out and kick somebody's ass. That's what you've got to do. Period." -- Lou Piniella
So I was pretty close just going on what I've seen.
I’ve had much worse guesses than that – that’s for sure!
Castro is the much better candidate
Castro has been a far superior player to Colvin this year. He plays the 2nd toughest position on the diamond well, and the only NL SS that have a higher wOBA are Ramirez, Furcal and Tulo.
Maybe it will be like the Oscar voting.
but instead of two actors from the same film splitting the vote, it will be two players on the same team and thus of course another actor/player wins
"Lou Piniella's been a great manager for a long time and I stand by him completely"
Jim Hendry
by Doggie Stalker on Aug 12, 2010 9:51 AM CDT up reply actions
Sorry, but Colvin really isn't deserving of the award
Even with my Cubs fan homerism I have him 5th.
basically Colvin wasnt going to get ROY
unless he put up 35+ homers – no hype before the season on a team that has gone nowhere…Strassburg hurt stands a better chance.
I Love Larry - Brick are you looking at random things around the room and saying that you love them - I Love Larry
Currently 34,839 on the Season Ticket Wait List - Expected age of being #0: 119
by hansman1982 on Aug 12, 2010 11:07 AM CDT up reply actions
I'm beginning to like Colvin more and more.
This is only the beginning....Lou Pinella end of '07 season and Chicago Transit Authority (the band when they were really good).
There's not too much to dislike
He stays back and hits lefties pretty well – and with power. His head is in the game, he’s a gamer.
Get 'em on, Get 'em over, Get 'em in!
No he can not hit lefties
Lefties don’t hit lefties especially young players who hit lefties in the minors
( OK I did just have to rub that in from the threads back in May/June)
"Lou Piniella's been a great manager for a long time and I stand by him completely"
Jim Hendry
by Doggie Stalker on Aug 12, 2010 9:18 AM CDT up reply actions
Women (sigh)... they never forget ;-)
I'll go to my grave believing Armando Galarraga tossed the 21st perfect game in MLB history.
Damn right
"Lou Piniella's been a great manager for a long time and I stand by him completely"
Jim Hendry
by Doggie Stalker on Aug 12, 2010 9:21 AM CDT up reply actions
Imo, Colvin
will need to continue to learn the strike zone and cut down on K’s.
My guess is he will get some training at the 1B position for 2011.
But he has some nice upside to his game for sure.
If that was directed at me
You might consider growing up some and doing something with your life besides running after baseballs like a ten year old.
considering that he clearly replied to Doggie Stalker
I don’t think it was aimed at you.
Settle down Francis
by HuskerCorner on Aug 12, 2010 9:31 AM CDT up reply actions
Is your name really Francis?
"A dream you dream alone is only a dream. A dream you dream together is reality." John Lennon
That was definately aimed at me
Ballhawk likes to do that with me. I am not bitter , I am enjoying my “I told you so moment” for the dozens if not hundreds of posts I had back in start of the season about letting Colvin play over Nady and in particular that Lou was not helping him by rarely letting him hit against lefties.
"Lou Piniella's been a great manager for a long time and I stand by him completely"
Jim Hendry
by Doggie Stalker on Aug 12, 2010 9:34 AM CDT up reply actions
Okay, look, NO ONE (outside of Lou)
really had a problem with Colvin playing more often than what he was. (Well maybe Not Bruce, since he thinks Lou can do no wrong)
But enough with the “I Told You So” garbage.
You’re wading into Blou territory with this nonsense, I’ve seen you make 3 or 4 posts like this in the last few days.
by HuskerCorner on Aug 12, 2010 9:36 AM CDT up reply actions
There were very heated threads
In which several people insisted Colvin could not and should not play against lefties. That was what I was referring to. I don’t have the energy to find out or remember who but yes it was one of my full out rant threads like Fuld over Nady to start the season etc.
Stats were thrown out to “prove” Colvin would not hit lefties and that Lou was in fact helping him but
not having him face them. As they say " You can look it up.
"Lou Piniella's been a great manager for a long time and I stand by him completely"
Jim Hendry
by Doggie Stalker on Aug 12, 2010 9:39 AM CDT up reply actions
Then those people were idiots
my point remains. You’ve made several “I told you so” posts in the last couple of days.
Hell, there’s been crap I’ve been right about this season that wasn’t that popular either. I don’t go out of my way to point it out again and again.
Continuing to do the “I’m right and you’re wrong!” posts after the fact does nothing. And for the record, you and I generally agree on issues, but you tend to assign a lot more importance to them than really exists.
by HuskerCorner on Aug 12, 2010 9:43 AM CDT up reply actions
Oh it makes me feel better
At the time of these debates ( Fuld , Lou) etc I was told how wrong I was, knew nothing about baseball etc, should stop posting etc so I freely admit I want to gloat on SOMETHING.
The season sucks so I will get a little comfort where I can.
"Lou Piniella's been a great manager for a long time and I stand by him completely"
Jim Hendry
by Doggie Stalker on Aug 12, 2010 9:46 AM CDT up reply actions
Colvin vs. Byrd
Colvin has a very similar UZR/150 rating to Byrd this year with Byrd playing the more premium position.
At the same time, you cannot discount that Wrigley is considered the most difficult right field to play in all of baseball.
True
Colvin’s UZR/150 is better than you would expect, but in center it is -12.5 (I know SSS), and the argument was about whether Colvin should start in center over Byrd.
Totally understood.
And Colvin was a decent CF, but you need to remember he bulked up a bit this offseason as well. I bet with a bigger sample size, he’d end up about a -3/+3 UZR/150 in center.
However, not starting over Byrd.
I see that a lot (Wrigley RF is the most difficult). Why is that?
Most parks are oriented the same way as Wrigley so it really can’t be the sun factor, unless you’re counting the above average # of day games.
Yes, there’s ivy and a brick wall instead of comfy padding, but there’s nothing too odd about the configuration – pretty standard with just a slight bend. Seems like there are a lot of other parks that have way weirder setups – higher walls, goofy angles, etc.
So is it just the day games or is there something else?
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
The Wind, its different every day.
The well in wall, the way the line hugs the wall in the corner. 355 down the line is one of the longer RFs in baseball if not the longest.
"You've got to get your damn shirts rolled up and go out and kick somebody's ass. That's what you've got to do. Period." -- Lou Piniella
Oh, and
the bullpen is in play on foul balls hit down the line.
"You've got to get your damn shirts rolled up and go out and kick somebody's ass. That's what you've got to do. Period." -- Lou Piniella
Maybe it is?
I don’t really know. Generally subpar outfielders play LF anyways so its not as important. Usually teams have a good defender in RF. Mainly because most throws made from RF are longer and more difficult than any throws made from LF. Like the LFs never throw to first, but RFs need to be able to throw to 3rd.
"You've got to get your damn shirts rolled up and go out and kick somebody's ass. That's what you've got to do. Period." -- Lou Piniella
Well the Sun affects LF a little differently too.
For example: if the Sun is to the West and is blocking the sight of RF and CF, the grandstands should block it out for the LF.
Plus, if we claim that LF is really tough to play, that will give Cubs fans one less thing to criticize Soriano for.
"You've got to get your damn shirts rolled up and go out and kick somebody's ass. That's what you've got to do. Period." -- Lou Piniella
I think it is the sun factor.
Lou Brock apparently couldn’t cut it as a Cub offensively because he struggled so much playing right — because of the sun. I read that somewhere …
Correct.
Left field at Wrigley doesn’t have the outfielder having to stare into the late-afternoon sun. Right field does. It’s just that simple.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
Low grandstands and a lot of day games.
Mixed with wind, tight foul lines, brick walls, long foul poles, etc.
It’s a mix of everything, and left field is similar but missing the same sun/wind effects.
Doggie has pretty much been 100% right about everything this year.
You A-holes who like to pick on the girl might be feeling macho/selfrightous at the current moment about her being an “I told you so.”
But she’s got history and a written record to prove she has a better Baseball IQ than most everyone here.
So act like middle school mean girls and call her bitter but she has something you guys don’t have, a track record of being right, which means she earned the right to rub your nose in the poop you put out over the last year an a half.
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by BrewCrew'sPrinceofDarkness on Aug 12, 2010 11:59 AM CDT up reply actions
well, since the "I told you so" window is now apparently open...
I have quite the written record here of saying Cubs bullpen was going to suck this year and I vigorously campaigned for the Cubs to sign Valverde, especially once his price started dropping.
Huh, whaddyaknow… I don’t feel better. Imagine that. Oh well…
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
You post says "I don't feel better"
But deep down in side this is how you feel:

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by BrewCrew'sPrinceofDarkness on Aug 12, 2010 1:00 PM CDT up reply actions
Except Valverde is a closer
and closer was not a problem. High middle relief was where they got killed.
"Lou Piniella's been a great manager for a long time and I stand by him completely"
Jim Hendry
by Doggie Stalker on Aug 12, 2010 1:01 PM CDT up reply actions
Everyone shifts down one spot.
Valverde, Marmol, Marshall… Nasty Boys Redux!!
Oh, and bring Cashner in every now and then just to throw a 100 mph heater to the screen… ;-)
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
Marmol is scary as a closer
but he would scare me more in the 8th
"Lou Piniella's been a great manager for a long time and I stand by him completely"
Jim Hendry
by Doggie Stalker on Aug 12, 2010 1:13 PM CDT up reply actions
Exactly!
Myers got the bulk of the saves during the Nasty Boys era with the Reds, but it was Dibble that scared the hell out of folks in the 7th and/or 8th. Charlton was sneaky good much like Marshall is.
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
I care homie...
"A dream you dream alone is only a dream. A dream you dream together is reality." John Lennon
Don't wanna look anything up
But I remember. You were right. Neither of us have an appreciation for what Lou does out there and I’m not disappointed that he’s retiring.
RIP Ronnie James Dio (July 10, 1942 - May 16, 2010).
Wow indeed...
Don’t know what’s up with The E-Man – I clearly run after baseballs much better than a 10-year old. It’s the 13 year olds where it starts to get a little dicey…
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
I could have gone my entire life without knowing who he was
That’s what I said months ago and I still say the same today.
RIP Ronnie James Dio (July 10, 1942 - May 16, 2010).
BOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!
A lovely story:
One day, long, long ago, there lived a woman who didn't whine, nag or bitch. That would be me....
But that was a long time ago and it was just that one day.
The end
You still don't get it do you?
Nobody ever said that Colvin couldn’t hit lefties. Just that he was less likely to hit lefties than a guy who had a career avg. over .300 against lefties. Based on track record, nothing about Colvin’s season is likely.
One last "rehash"
Some People insisted that Colvin’s minor league numbers in which he hit lefties just as well as righties were irrelevant which I strongly disagreed with. Career average of a guy coming off major surgery and could not throw was not exactly the best way to judge Nady who should not even have been on the April roster. However if you want to at least see if Nady could hit OK , but when Colvin was out hitting him early and often and against lefties in the few times he got the chance.
"Lou Piniella's been a great manager for a long time and I stand by him completely"
Jim Hendry
by Doggie Stalker on Aug 12, 2010 9:55 AM CDT up reply actions
Nady turned out to be hot garbage this year
That has more to do with it looking like a bad move in hindsight than anything. Considering Colvin’s very meager minor league track record and Nady’s good track record it seemed like the logical move. Also, let’s not pretend that Colvin is raking against lefties this year. He is hitting only .241 against lefties. Not exactly championship-level stuff here. If Nady had lived up to his career norms he would have still been a better play.
I actually do think I know what you are talking about now. That was sort of a dumb argument that minor league lefties are completely different than major league lefties. I don’t think I participated in that part of the argument.
This would be great to see happen again.
The record is 27 — set in 1902, and it was the youth of all those players that led newspaper headline writers to nickname the team “Cubs”. That, of course, eventually stuck as the official name of the team. The good news is that only four years later, those Cubs went on a five-year run that included four pennants and two World Series wins.
They need a Frank Chance, or two. One for first base and one to be manager.
One of Lee Elia's 15%
OT: Un pregunta...
If Bryce Harper is in the 2011 draft, do you see the teams in front of the Cubs skipping over him because of his price? If that happens, do you think the Cubs will draft and pay him?
"A dream you dream alone is only a dream. A dream you dream together is reality." John Lennon
perdón
"A dream you dream alone is only a dream. A dream you dream together is reality." John Lennon
The Cubs can at least afford Harper
They’re in a prime position as a big market team that couldn’t make the right move if God handed them the names.
RIP Ronnie James Dio (July 10, 1942 - May 16, 2010).
Man, I just really hope we end up with a high-impact player
We need to get something out of this mess…
I still think we need to make a splash in free agency
RIP Ronnie James Dio (July 10, 1942 - May 16, 2010).
Agreed
There are plenty of options in the free-agent market. Adam Dunn, for instance, would be a nice pickup to replace D-Lee at first.
by Cubs Fan Report on Aug 12, 2010 11:19 AM CDT up reply actions
I say Lee or none of the above
I don’t really want Dunn. I would much rather take a shot at Pujols/Gonzalez/Fielder. Unless that is Dunn can be had on a 3 year deal.
I hear those 3 names all the time - do you really think anyone other than Fielder
Has a shot at becoming a Cub? Pujols has a 90% chance of resigning with the Cards this offseason and Boston has tried for Gonzalez for years, they’re going to spend BIG on him.
No, I don't.
And I’d take Fielder over Dunn.
"You've got to get your damn shirts rolled up and go out and kick somebody's ass. That's what you've got to do. Period." -- Lou Piniella
Exactly
Dunn at 4/48-4/52 > Fielder at 10/250
" Tell me something Steve, How does a guy from Puerto Rico loose a ball in the Sun? "
I'd rather have a guy who can actually play first base.
Fielder won’t get that, it what’s called posturing. Its more likely he’ll do a 5 year deal. That way he can sign another possible big contract before he ages too much.
The only way Fielder could get 10 years is if someone is A)Stupid and B) plans on him being their DH for the next 10 years.
"You've got to get your damn shirts rolled up and go out and kick somebody's ass. That's what you've got to do. Period." -- Lou Piniella
Lee will want too much
Get the guy made for the Cubs, Dunn!
"Any player who gets the opportunity to play at Wrigley should welcome it"
Really?
Something to be said about moving Sori to 1B and bringing in Crawford.
You would finally have a + leadoff guy and the board wouldn’t have to deal with “The Hop” any more?
Just an Idea.
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by BrewCrew'sPrinceofDarkness on Aug 12, 2010 12:01 PM CDT up reply actions
I was at the Mariners game in late June
He was hopping then.
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by BrewCrew'sPrinceofDarkness on Aug 12, 2010 12:23 PM CDT up reply actions
I think Crawford is going to be overpaid
He is having a career year this year. He is the best position player on the market entering his prime.
However, three big problems I have with him are: (1) much of his value is derived from his defense and he has played most of his career in LF which is not a premium defensive position; (2) his offensive numbers throughout his career have not been what you expect for $18-20 million/year (career high ISO of .177, career wOBA of .367); (3) his game relies almost entirely on his legs, if his legs go then you are stuck with a non-power hitting Soriano.
I just don’t want to spend $20 million/year on a leadoff hitter, been there, done that.
I never like the big contract to guys who's primary tool is speed
Soriano is a prime example of this
(and further reason why tools guys like Hendry are bad GM’s)
Soriano got overpaid compared to a JD Drew or even a Carlos Lee due mostly because he had more speed.
Hamstring injuries have essentially robbed him of his speed. Now we have a Murton-esque OPS in LF for 18 million a year.
A useful player yes. But not a franchise cornerstone by any stretch.
" Tell me something Steve, How does a guy from Puerto Rico loose a ball in the Sun? "
Matt Murton?
This is the second day you have mentioned Murton. He had a career .788 OPS and no tools other than contact. Even this year Soriano is a far superior player.
Are you Matt Murton?
Speed is a fantastic tool, the problem with Soriano was that he was getting old, and in most cases guys lose speed with age. The Cubs knew full well that Soriano’s speed was going to decline. They took him for his power.
JD Drew sucks, the reason he didn’t get a big deal is because he’s an ass and has an injury history. Carlos Lee? He had some nice years in Houston, but I’d rather have Soriano. I would however rather have Carlos Lee than Derrek Lee.
"You've got to get your damn shirts rolled up and go out and kick somebody's ass. That's what you've got to do. Period." -- Lou Piniella
He is looking for 18-20 mill a year?
For that price is would say HELL NO!
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by BrewCrew'sPrinceofDarkness on Aug 12, 2010 12:56 PM CDT up reply actions
Soriano at 1B would be a complete disaster.
The two things you need to be a good 1B are good hands and good footwork. Soriano has neither.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
God, I hope so!
We need a superstar on this team
"Any player who gets the opportunity to play at Wrigley should welcome it"
a superstar to go with Castro, i should've said.
"Any player who gets the opportunity to play at Wrigley should welcome it"
Oh, and one more thing I left out of the recap.
Can we please, PLEASE stop using Carlos Zambrano as a PH? He’s terrible at it. Lifetime as a PH he’s 2-for-26 with 13 strikeouts.
If you need to take a starting pitcher out and have a short bench, as the Cubs did last night, just let the starting pitcher bat. He’s much more likely to get a hit than Z is.
FWIW, as far as I know the worst pinch-hitter of all time was Don Kessinger. He had 41 career PA as a pinch-hitter, and was 0-for-37 with four walks and one run scored.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al Yellon on Aug 12, 2010 11:32 AM CDT reply actions 2 recs
Don Kessinger had 4 BB as a PH?
That would be an upgrade.
GETITDONEJIM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
:)
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by BrewCrew'sPrinceofDarkness on Aug 12, 2010 12:03 PM CDT up reply actions
No Larussa for 1st to games in STL
"Any player who gets the opportunity to play at Wrigley should welcome it"
I love the fact that Tony wanted only the Cincinnati players to be reprimanded.
Oh, Tony. You rapscallion, you.
I spent 90% of my money on women and drink. The rest I wasted - George Best
Hungover?
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by BrewCrew'sPrinceofDarkness on Aug 12, 2010 12:03 PM CDT up reply actions
For being Hungover?
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by BrewCrew'sPrinceofDarkness on Aug 12, 2010 12:22 PM CDT up reply actions
No, arrogant ass-baggery!
"Any player who gets the opportunity to play at Wrigley should welcome it"
If that were the case wouldn't that result in a life-time ban?
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by BrewCrew'sPrinceofDarkness on Aug 12, 2010 12:57 PM CDT up reply actions
Damn it!
I was just going to change to transitions.
"They come to see me strike out, hit a home run, or run into a fence. I try to accommodate them at least one way every game." - Gorman Thomas
by RiskyBusiness on Aug 12, 2010 12:51 PM CDT up reply actions
I'll still get them
They’ll just be better. Tired of carrying clips around for my glasses.
"They come to see me strike out, hit a home run, or run into a fence. I try to accommodate them at least one way every game." - Gorman Thomas
by RiskyBusiness on Aug 12, 2010 1:10 PM CDT up reply actions
Do get them. The ones
they have now are much better than they use to be.
A lovely story:
One day, long, long ago, there lived a woman who didn't whine, nag or bitch. That would be me....
But that was a long time ago and it was just that one day.
The end
Or
I could go with baseball flip down shades to truly waqlk around as a baseball geek.
"They come to see me strike out, hit a home run, or run into a fence. I try to accommodate them at least one way every game." - Gorman Thomas
by RiskyBusiness on Aug 12, 2010 2:05 PM CDT up reply actions
I wear them so thanks.
A lovely story:
One day, long, long ago, there lived a woman who didn't whine, nag or bitch. That would be me....
But that was a long time ago and it was just that one day.
The end
LaRussa and Baker - suspended two games and fined. Cueto seven and fined.
Carpenter, Molina, Phiilips and Spring were just fined.
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
Really
I need to look at that film more closely. I thought Cueto just got pinned down and was defending himself. I imagine it will reduced to 5 games but 7 is probably the most I have ever heard so they must believe he was really bad.
"Lou Piniella's been a great manager for a long time and I stand by him completely"
Jim Hendry
by Doggie Stalker on Aug 12, 2010 1:04 PM CDT up reply actions
No he did the kicking
And that’s how Jason LaRue probably got a concussion.
"They come to see me strike out, hit a home run, or run into a fence. I try to accommodate them at least one way every game." - Gorman Thomas
by RiskyBusiness on Aug 12, 2010 1:07 PM CDT up reply actions
A big scrum like that with everyone so closely packed together...
no one was really going to get hurt bad. Nobody was throwing punches, just a lot of pushing, shoving, grabbing jerseys….
Yes, Cueto was pushed up against the screen and wall with lots of people up against him, but he wasn’t in any real danger. But seeing as how most of those guys were probably bigger than him and he was surrounded, he probably just panicked and started lashing out with everything he had. Ordinarily kicking might be considered sissy stuff, but when there are cleats at the end of those kicks… that’s got bad potential as Jason LaRue will attest.
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
With Chipper out, is ARam to ATL an option?
I think this could be a possibility here. Would ARam go for it?
we're the three best friends that anyone could have.
Then we target Dunn and Beltre in the offseason?
" Tell me something Steve, How does a guy from Puerto Rico loose a ball in the Sun? "
Why would the Braves
make a trade for the “Human DL”, in a year he has sucked, and the player has a $16MM option for 2011?
Do you think before you post, or are you always this way?
Because the Cubs could kick in some of the money, and Ramirez is the only offensive 3B threat on the market.
Bad year or not, he still hit over .310 with 9HR and 25 RBI in July.
Also, isn’t Chipper Jones the Human DL?
You never know with this being Bobby Cox's last year.
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by BrewCrew'sPrinceofDarkness on Aug 12, 2010 1:31 PM CDT up reply actions
Al, your reference to the origin of the team name "Cubs" coming from a newspaper writer...
Do you have a source for that? I’m trying to understand how the White Stockings somehow translate to “Little Bears”.
Seems an odd, unrelated reference.
It's 106 miles to Chicago...

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