Shout It From The Rooftops: Cubs vs. Cardinals Preview, Sunday 8/15, 1:15 CT
by Al Yellon on Aug 15, 2010 11:00 AM CDT
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PrintThe Cubs have a chance today to win a series for the first time since the last time they played the Cardinals at Wrigley Field at the end of July. Oddly enough, the wretched 2006 Cubs, who lost 96 games, swept the Cardinals twice. This year, I suppose we've got to settle for a couple of series wins. The Cubs still have six more games against the Cardinals after today, a pair of three-game series in September.
Today's Tribune featured a long article on the financial troubles the rooftop businesses across from Wrigley are having this year. This should be no real surprise -- Cubs attendance is down and in a recession, discretionary spending like this tends to decline. The article has some items of interest that I did not know before, including the approximate seating capacity of the 16 rooftops (about 3,000), some details on how these clubs came into existence and how the deal with the Cubs for a share of their revenue was struck, and some other financial details of the various businesses. And then there's this:
The suddenly treacherous financial footing for some rooftops has generated talk that the new owners of the Cubs, the Ricketts family, have designs on investing in the clubs or even buying them out. The family's investment in the 3621 N. Sheffield Ave. rooftop in May only fed the speculation. The family also had discussions with the owners of the Lakeview Baseball Club who were seeking investors after last season, but no deal was struck, sources said.
It would not surprise me if this happened. Tribune Co., the previous team owner, could have bought virtually every building on both Waveland and Sheffield in the early 1980's for perhaps $2 million. (I personally know of one such building that was offered for sale in the late 1970's for about $38,000 -- that building would sell for probably $3 million today.) Had they done so, they could have been pocketing all the rooftop cash for more than 20 years. If the Ricketts do buy out the clubs, once the economy (and the team) recover, they'll have a built-in new revenue source, new skyboxes of sorts, without having to construct a single new structure.
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Kyle Lohse had a good year for the Cardinals in 2008, not so good last year, and was awful this year before having forearm surgery in May. This is his first start back from the DL after a rehab start with Memphis. He made two starts vs. the Cubs in 2009 with a 7.20 ERA. Current Cubs are hitting .355 (38-for-107) against Kyle, with the best performance being Alfonso Soriano's (.385, 15-for-39, three doubles, two HR).
Ryan Dempster has not had much success vs. the Cardinals -- ever. In his career he's posted a 4.51 ERA and 1.53 WHIP against them in 43 appearances (17 starts), which includes a loss and a no-decision earlier this year. Dempster did start that Sunday night game vs. the Cardinals on July 25 at Wrigley Field; he threw well but the Cubs lost in 11. Albert Pujols has homered five times off him (in 45 AB), but his real nemesis is Skip Schumaker -- 16-for-37 (.432).
Today's lineup via tweet from CubsInsider:
#Cubs lineup @ #Cardinals: Fukudome RF, Castro SS, Lee 1B, Ramirez 3B, Byrd CF, Nady LF, DeWitt 2B, Hill C, Dempster P
Today's game is on WGN and KSDK-5 in St. Louis. Here is the complete MLB.com Mediacenter for today.
Baseball-reference.com game preview
Please visit our SB Nation Cardinals site Viva el Birdos.
Today's first pitch thread will be up at 1:15 pm CDT, and the overflows will post at 2:15 pm, 3:15 pm and 4 pm CDT.
Discuss amongst yourselves.
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Stop trying to sell seats on a rooftop... and just a Jumbotron on the roof.
Then you have a revenue stream all season no matter what… and no more food/liquor licenses and wait staff, and ticketing services to pay for…
"You win because of the quarterback. We have to get that position stabilized. We're fixated on that." -- Jerry Angelo (12.30.2008)
Jerry Angelo trades for Jay Cutler! (4.2.2009)
Very interesting piece of news, Al
Thank you for sharing with the non-Chicagoans like myself.
I'll go to my grave believing Armando Galarraga tossed the 21st perfect game in MLB history.
Cripes! Big Z won yesterday?!
Great…just what we needed… chances are, Jim Hendry, hearing of this amazing win, is now getting ready to offer Z a 15yr/30mil per contract extention! Almost forgot: full NTC and players option for an addition 5yrs at 45mil per!
on the sands of hesitation, lie the bones of countless millions, who, at the brink of the best, sat down to rest, and resting...they died. Author Unknown
So much ...
for fielding your best team to win the series. Thanks, Lou! I was really hoping to see Nady and Kosuke in the starting lineup today!
Look, "Lou's not an idiot...I'll tellya that"...
Really getting hard to figure out what, if anything, Lou is thinking… :[
on the sands of hesitation, lie the bones of countless millions, who, at the brink of the best, sat down to rest, and resting...they died. Author Unknown
I hear (haven't actually been)...
That rooftops are no steal? Upwards of $120 per person? Tho it does (?) include food n drink, at $240/cpl, not exactly “affordable” in this economy.
on the sands of hesitation, lie the bones of countless millions, who, at the brink of the best, sat down to rest, and resting...they died. Author Unknown
That's about right
I went last year and it was $100. The thing is that unless you’re there early, you will most likely be inside watching the game on TV. And for way less than a Ben Franklin, you can eat better food and drink better beer somewhere else.
I recall spending
about $350 for 3 of us last time to Wrigley, so I suppose it’s all relative…Thanks
on the sands of hesitation, lie the bones of countless millions, who, at the brink of the best, sat down to rest, and resting...they died. Author Unknown
Jeez.
Get a good terrace reserved seat, and it’s not that much per game.
Talk about price gouging.
I didn't believe it last August, but it turns out that love survives.
Mount Washington conquered July 5, 2010! State high point count: 3/50
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Aug 15, 2010 11:41 AM CDT up reply actions
Worse, I'm 90% sure my attorney
gave me “freebie tix”, 8 rows up just behind 1st base! (course, we were doing a great deal of drinkin!
on the sands of hesitation, lie the bones of countless millions, who, at the brink of the best, sat down to rest, and resting...they died. Author Unknown
they are perfect for large events
For corporations or bigger parties. Not so great for jusr 2-4 people.
by cozmotaylor123 on Aug 15, 2010 12:17 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
No Colvin today I see.
A lovely story:
One day, long, long ago, there lived a woman who didn't whine, nag or bitch. That would be me....
But that was a long time ago and it was just that one day.
The end
By the by, has anyone hear anything about our "old friend" MB???
I swear I saw a post on Yahooo, something along the lines of: “Ms M**** B****** to have knee surgery”. I was very quickly removed. I can’t find anything in “MLB Rumors”, etc. Good Morning Sue!
on the sands of hesitation, lie the bones of countless millions, who, at the brink of the best, sat down to rest, and resting...they died. Author Unknown
Thanks so much!
I see you “survived the storm”, uh?
on the sands of hesitation, lie the bones of countless millions, who, at the brink of the best, sat down to rest, and resting...they died. Author Unknown
All good. Sorry- hadda run an errand
on the sands of hesitation, lie the bones of countless millions, who, at the brink of the best, sat down to rest, and resting...they died. Author Unknown
Cripes!
There it is, on the right side of THIS screen! must be goin blind as well as stupid!!! :(
on the sands of hesitation, lie the bones of countless millions, who, at the brink of the best, sat down to rest, and resting...they died. Author Unknown
And that's "The Ms' M***** B******", not "MS" (as it appears) :]
on the sands of hesitation, lie the bones of countless millions, who, at the brink of the best, sat down to rest, and resting...they died. Author Unknown
I don't know that much about the rooftops
but was always under the impression that they were for large groups and corporate gatherings. I didn’t know you could buy individual tickets.
Point being, ticket sales in the park have declined as individual discretionary income has been tightened, whereas the troubles befalling the rooftops are an interesting indication of corporate weakness as well.
It’s like a chapter of freakonomics – Wrigleyville rooftop clubs and the state of the economy.
WWOZ.org - New Orleans Jazz and Heritage Station
Hello TJ11
What say you bout cubs taking 4 of 6 from cards???
on the sands of hesitation, lie the bones of countless millions, who, at the brink of the best, sat down to rest, and resting...they died. Author Unknown
I'm intrigued by the idea of rooftop acquisition
I would imagine that the Cubs would look at this as an opportunity to acquire 16 new PNC Clubs for a fraction of the effort and cash it would take to build them within Wrigley proper. I’m still seeing downsides, though.
If the price for those assets is (as Al suggested) around $48M, the property taxes are going to have to be addressed. As are the maintenance and upkeep costs. All of sudden, it’s not one structure, or even two if we’re talking about the Triangle Building. You’re adding 16 new pieces of property and their associated structures, and all the headaches that go along with them.
Another problem is the customers themselves. I understand that most of the ticket sales are to groups, but it’s my understanding that other, smaller groups of buddies prefer the rooftops for their atmosphere, food and beverage selection, and a certain laxity in monitoring their consumption. In other words, they like them because they are not Wrigley. You may alienate a sizable proportion of your customer base by trying to extend the “Wrigley Experience” across Waveland and Sheffield.
Upside: No more fighting with the rooftop owners about revenue and/or sightlines.
"Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have?" -Frank Chance
"If [Ruth] had [called his shot], I would have knocked him down with the next pitch." -Charlie Root
Rooftop does not equal Skybox to me
I can see the rooftop owners trying to state this, but I don’t think the rooftops are equal to the skybox experience due to the distance from the field. A cold April game at Wrigley can still be enjoyable in a skybox because there is a heater over your hear. It’s the exact opposite on a rooftop – you are higher up and more exposed to the elements.
"They come to see me strike out, hit a home run, or run into a fence. I try to accommodate them at least one way every game." - Gorman Thomas
by RiskyBusiness on Aug 15, 2010 1:40 PM CDT up reply actions
The weather elements can be addressed.
Also, it strikes me that many skybox patrons are probably there for the same reason the rooftop people are — the party, not the game.
Right now, it’s too expensive to do that. But when the economy recovers? Not a bad idea.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
Same party, different clientèle?
I have never been to a rooftop, although I should have jumped on that groupon.com offer to try it out.
But I would initially think that higher end corporate clients would value to Wrigley skyboxes over the rooftop. But the face-value pricing is essentially the same for skyboxes vs. rooftops. The rooftop advantage is newer facilities and they can accommodate larger groups.
"They come to see me strike out, hit a home run, or run into a fence. I try to accommodate them at least one way every game." - Gorman Thomas
by RiskyBusiness on Aug 15, 2010 6:04 PM CDT up reply actions
Agree wholeheartedly.
Because of Cubs’ national popularity and the vitality of the neighborhood the Cubs could sell things on those rooftops that few other sports teams could. And they could do it without touching the inside of the stadium, which is preferable — we don’t know how much the “purity” of the Wrigley experience means economically, but if there are ways to get lots of money from Chicago’s rich elite that don’t alter the field itself, we don’t risk finding out the hard way.
I can imagine, for example, building an extra enclosed story with huge windows on one of the buildings and using it as a hotel room, auctioned off for stays surrounding game days. I’m not sure it would work — upkeep on isolated hotel rooms can’t be efficient, demand would be incredibly variable (which is why I suggest auctions, which can capture demand highs), hotel scheduling doesn’t correspond with baseball scheduling (especially for a team that plays lots of day games), there might be conflicts with residential tenants… point is, I can imagine this working at Wrigley, and I can’t imagine even considering it too many other places. The unique strengths of the Cubs, their park, and their neighborhood give them opportunities to go way outside the box.
Go Cubs and Guten Abend / Guten Tag.
If the Cubs still have a chance, no matter how small, it’s still Go Cubs, damn the math and pass the KoolAid.
no game for you Eths???
on the sands of hesitation, lie the bones of countless millions, who, at the brink of the best, sat down to rest, and resting...they died. Author Unknown
doch - i'm here!
If the Cubs still have a chance, no matter how small, it’s still Go Cubs, damn the math and pass the KoolAid.
1 Down
"Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have?" -Frank Chance
"If [Ruth] had [called his shot], I would have knocked him down with the next pitch." -Charlie Root
I thought 1st pitch thread would be up already... AHA!
on the sands of hesitation, lie the bones of countless millions, who, at the brink of the best, sat down to rest, and resting...they died. Author Unknown
Ever so slightly OFF TOPIC
Avid reader of the site, not much for posting…
The reason for this particular post is I’m curious how much the decline in discretionary spending has hit the U.S, in general?
I’m Irish, live and work in Dublin, but have been a Cubs fan all my life (not that long a story; family holiday as a kid, trip to Wrigley, bitten by the bug…). Now in my late twenties, I managed to enlighten a few of my friends over the years into appreciating baseball. I’ve made a conscious effort to get to as many Cubs games as possible; 11 games in the past 4 seasons (the rainout V The Cards in April ‘09 annoyed me no end!). But, my baseball convertees grow tired of Chicago. I know, I know, how is that even possible?!
But circumstances being what they are, we’ve agreed to a compromise and are, tentatively, planning to attend the series against the Red Sox next May.
Now, I know Fenway Park is a tough ticket to acquire at the best of times, and it’ll be tougher to get them for a marquee series like Cubs/Sox, but I’ve payed those nasty scalpers in the past @ the Addison stop Exit and am willing to do so again in Boston. What I’m not willing to do, or able to do financially, is pay something ridiculous like $200 a pop for a ticket to a ball game.
So, my question to BCB’ers is; with your best hunch, do you think a trip to Boston to watch the Cubs next May, given the state of “discretionary spending” in the States right now, is financially viable (i.e $70/80 per game), or are these yet more tickets to sporting events that I’d love to see, but can’t afford… :(
(So happy we got the win tonight, even if in the 9th all my thoughts were-‘throwing this away would be a perfcet microcosm of the season!. Apologies for the off topic-ness, just didn’t want to clog up the site with a largely irrelevant fan post that Al would have to waste time deleting…)
No, this is somewhat relevant.
I’d say Cubs/Red Sox tickets will command a pretty high premium. Now, they are going to play these games in late May, when it can still be cold in Boston — so that might help drive the price down a little. Depends, too, on whether the Red Sox miss the playoffs this year — that could drive demand down.
It’s kind of too early to tell, but obviously you want to make plans now. My guess is that you could probably get in the park for $100 from a scalper. You may also be able to buy standing room tix for this game off the Red Sox website.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
Thanks, Al.
Appreciate it. I’m quite sure I can put together $300 and with a bit of luck will be able to attend all 3 games in Fenway. But, I’ll also be keeping an eye on Red Sox ticket sales next Spring in the hope that I could get myself some standing room tics. It’ll be nice to have a mind numbing horror that isn’t the Cubs VWR, for a change!
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