A Blast From The Past: Cubs vs. Padres Preview, Tuesday 8/17, 7:05 CT
by Al Yellon on Aug 17, 2010 5:00 PM CDT
in Game Threads
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PrintWhen it comes to talking about bad Cubs trades, many people forget that on July 29, 1998, Ed Lynch -- who was far, far worse as a GM than Jim Hendry -- traded for the White Sox' Matt Karchner. The 1998 team did need bullpen help; only Rod Beck and Terry Mulholland were effective for the entire '98 season.
Lynch's first mistake was thinking that Karchner's two months as White Sox closer in 1997 -- after another infamous deal, the "White Flag" trade, sent Sox closer Roberto Hernandez to the Giants -- made him an "effective reliever". Karchner couldn't even keep the closer job past '97; Bill Simas replaced Karchner in spring training and Karchner was... bad. In fact, in the month of July 1998 before the deal, Karchner had posted a 10.57 ERA and 2.48 WHIP.
But Lynch traded for him anyway. What made this deal worse was that the Cubs sent Jon Garland to the White Sox in that deal, only a year after they had made him the 10th pick in the entire 1997 draft.
Karchner was bad for the 1998 Cubs; he was a little better in 1999 (when he wasn't on the DL), then was awful in 2000 and was released on September 5... ironically, just two months after Garland made his major league debut for the White Sox.
Garland isn't a superstar; he made the All-Star team and got some Cy Young votes in 2005 mainly because the Sox were such a good team. But he has been an effective inning-eater for nine seasons, is having a fine year in 2010, and is likely headed back to the playoffs.
Want to trash a Cubs GM? Ed Lynch hurt the Cubs for a decade by this deal. Can you imagine the 2003 Cubs with Garland? Or the 2007 or 2008 team with another solid starter? The Cubs wouldn't have had to spend money on Jason Marquis, for one thing.
Ah, well. There I go, lamenting the past again. Hopefully, no Cubs GM, whether Hendry or anyone in the future, will ever make a mistake like this one again.
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Despite pitching all those years for the White Sox, Jon Garland has not faced the Cubs since June 30, 2006 (lineup for amusement value only). He's faced a few current Cubs from their time in the AL; altogether current Cubs are hitting .257 in a fairly-small-sample-size 70 at-bats (18 hits).
Randy Wells has one career start vs. the Padres, on May 23, 2009 at San Diego. He threw well, allowing three runs in seven innings, but lost because the Cubs couldn't score more than one run off someone named Josh Geer, for whom that game was his only win in a 1-7 2009 season. Sound familiar? The Padres' Ryan Ludwick is 3-for-4 lifetime vs. Randy with two home runs (both hit last year).
Tonight's game is on CSN Chicago and Ch-4 San Diego. The game will be available on Extra Innings tonight. Here is the complete MLB.com Mediacenter for today.
Baseball-reference.com game preview
Please visit our SB Nation Padres site Gaslamp Ball.
Tonight's first pitch thread will be up at 7 pm CDT, and the overflows will post at 8 pm, 9 pm and 9:45 pm CDT.
Discuss amongst yourselves.
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Colvin better be in the lineup tonight...
by Dcr18 on Aug 17, 2010 5:03 PM CDT via mobile reply actions
it begins with a Kosuke and ends with a Koyie!
Thanks, Lou!
Lineup
Fukudome – RF
Castro – SS
Byrd – CF
Ramirez – 3B
Nady – 1B
Soriano – LF
DeWitt – 2B
Hill – C
Wells – P
I think we need to petition for Beef to be in the lineup
otherwise, we wasted a callup on the guy
The 2010 Randy Hundley Fantasy Camp ruled!!!!
No different than last year...
when Soto got hurt and Piniella played Hill every day.
I’ve stopped worrying about these things for the most part, but it would be great to see Castillo get playing time. He could be a tradeable asset if they showed him off a little bit.
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Just North of Wrigley Field
by jameslcrockett on Aug 17, 2010 6:51 PM CDT up reply actions
No Worf tonight.
Starlin Castro singles on a pop up to catcher Jason LaRue.
Ryan Theriot scores. Two out -Gameday 7/23/10
by Sandberg's evil twin on Aug 17, 2010 6:10 PM CDT up reply actions
Sigh.
We’re having the same arguments over and over again. But here goes …
If you want to point to Lynch as “better than Hendry” based on the one trade you cited, I don’t think it’s fair to just ignore the Juan Pierre debacle. Ricky Nolasco sure would have helped the Cubs in the past few years.
oh, and the trading jose ceda for kevin fucking gregg.
"Matt Capps is more valuable than Albert Pujols."---by Doggie Stalker on Aug 16, 2010 9:35 PM PDT
by LouPiniellaIsRetiring on Aug 17, 2010 5:08 PM CDT reply actions 1 recs
I also love the fact of brining up a trade over 12 years ago in order to justify Jim Hendry having a job.
"Matt Capps is more valuable than Albert Pujols."---by Doggie Stalker on Aug 16, 2010 9:35 PM PDT
by LouPiniellaIsRetiring on Aug 17, 2010 5:10 PM CDT reply actions
Is my ass hot? Is Z watching me?
Starlin Castro singles on a pop up to catcher Jason LaRue.
Ryan Theriot scores. Two out -Gameday 7/23/10
by Sandberg's evil twin on Aug 17, 2010 5:12 PM CDT reply actions
Dallas Green is worse...he traded Dennis Eckersley for three minor leaguers.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Aug 17, 2010 5:15 PM CDT reply actions
You're joking, right?
OK, the Eck trade turned out bad. It’s also a trade that every single GM in baseball would have made at the time, based on the fact that Eck looked like a combination of Billy Martin and Ozzie Osbourne (minus the accent) most of the time, and had refused any help to try and pull himself together. Dallas Green is, without question, the man who would have led the Cubs to the Promised Land if the Tribco suits would have left him alone.
"Don't complain to me about the stormy weather, boys. Just bring the ship into port." --Steve Stone, September 2004
His brilliance was obviously seen by numerous other organizations...
since he got all those other GM job offers and excelled as a manger for the Yankees and Mets.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Aug 17, 2010 5:27 PM CDT up reply actions
And had roughly the same amount of talent with those two clubs....
that Casey Stengel had with the Mets. And he did excel as manager in Philadelphia. Green was a good GM, my friend. The 1989 team was basically his too, save for Mitch Williams.
"Don't complain to me about the stormy weather, boys. Just bring the ship into port." --Steve Stone, September 2004
The Philadelphia team he managed was really really good before he ever got there...
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Aug 17, 2010 5:37 PM CDT up reply actions
Lou teaches them excellent fundamentals
a) sitting
b) sitting
c) not playing
d) watching poor baseball
e) sitting
f) watching old man sleep
did I forget anything?
The 2010 Randy Hundley Fantasy Camp ruled!!!!
Hendry is better than Ed Lynch!
Woo. And Lou is better than Bruce Kimm. How about we aim a little higher.
Let's be honest here
Al believes that Hendry is going to be back next year. It is much easier for him to rationalize Hendry staying than to spend the next year calling for his head. If the Cubs stink next year (which I believe they will) Al will start calling for Hendry to be canned about May or June.
Why anybody would defend Jim Hendry RIGHT NOW is beyond me.
Saying that we have to live with him for another year, give him a chance to fix his problems, etc. is one thing. But defending him by citing Ed Lynch’s Greatest Hits?
none of our recent general managers has done a particularly good job
which might explain why the Cubs haven’t won the NL pennant since 1945. Let Ricketts take his time to find a replacement for Hendry. Ricketts family is still trying to determine what kind of owners they want to be, and what kind of direction they want to take, before just going out and hiring a new general manager. Our suffering will continue, but hopefully Ricketts can figure this out in time. sorry:(
by holy mackeral on Aug 17, 2010 5:46 PM CDT up reply actions
Getting back to existentialism ...
“I leave Sisyphus at the foot of the mountain. One always finds one’s burden again. But Sisyphus teaches the higher fidelity that negates the gods and raises rocks. He too concludes that all is well. This universe henceforth without a master seems to him neither sterile nor futile. Each atom of that stone, each mineral flake of that night-filled mountain, in itself, forms a world. The struggle itself toward the heights is enough to fill a man’s heart. One must imagine Sisyphus happy.”
— Albert Camus
Therefore we are happy. Play ball.
One of Lee Elia's 15%
On that note, pass the Old Style, please.
"Don't complain to me about the stormy weather, boys. Just bring the ship into port." --Steve Stone, September 2004
A good, true idea. It will help us realize we are happy.
One of Lee Elia's 15%
by waiting4cubs on Aug 17, 2010 5:28 PM CDT up reply actions
Jim Frey and Larry Himes
Those two were abysmal GM’s. I give Dallas Green a lot more credit for the 1989 NL East championship than Jim Frey. The 1989 team was built with players that Green had drafted. Himes was an unmitigated disaster as GM or whatever his official designation was.
"The big possums walk late." - Harry Caray
Frey was a good manager, a horrific broadcaster, and a lousy general manager
He didn’t deserve to be fired midseason 1986 by Dallas Green. However, his unfortunate firing did not mean that he should have been named as Green’s successor at GM. 2 wrongs don’t make a right. I could have gotten more for Lee Smith than he did, and Frey could have as well, had he shopped Smith a little bit.
by holy mackeral on Aug 17, 2010 6:55 PM CDT up reply actions
WOW
want to get flamed – simply mention that someone was a worse GM for the Cubs than Jim Hendry…
I Love Larry - Brick are you looking at random things around the room and saying that you love them - I Love Larry
Currently 34,839 on the Season Ticket Wait List - Expected age of being #0: 119
Yeah, it was pretty stupid of Al to try the "hey others have been worse" defense
since that particular defense is MONUMENTALLY idiotic.
Never mind that we have NO IDEA how much Hendry has hurt the future of this organization with his horrendously bad contracts.
by HuskerCorner on Aug 17, 2010 5:51 PM CDT up reply actions
Soriano will make $18 million for the next 4 years. He'll be a 38 year old outfielder in 2014.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Aug 17, 2010 5:54 PM CDT up reply actions
If He Can Still Play in the Outfield
I don’t want to get on Soriano too much because he’s actually having a decent year without getting hurt. Soriano got a great deal from the Cubs from his perspective. However, I wonder if Soriano is going to be able to play the outfield in 2014.
"The big possums walk late." - Harry Caray
Unfortunately...
Other than last year, he’s been good enough the Cubs couldn’t really pay him to play for another team. I don’t think this tells the whole story, but so far the Cubs have paid him $60m and he’s been worth ~$79m in performance on the field… and that’s even with how bad 2009 was for him. It’s a problem because the Cubs use him as an excuse they can’t add more payroll, and he probably won’t keep this level of performance up. But to justify the contract, he doesn’t have to.
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Just North of Wrigley Field
by jameslcrockett on Aug 17, 2010 6:32 PM CDT up reply actions
I think you need to look at his year again.
He’s been tanking pretty consistently for a while now and his average is BARELY above .250, has just 4 steals and his 19 home runs are nice, but honestly, he’s ALREADY a shell of the player we signed him to be, and we have him for 4 more years
That’s not decent considering what they signed him for
by HuskerCorner on Aug 18, 2010 1:08 AM CDT up reply actions
Batting average?
really? I think you need to look at numbers that actually tell you anything about a hitter’s performance.
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Just North of Wrigley Field
by jameslcrockett on Aug 18, 2010 3:50 AM CDT up reply actions
What I got out of Al's statement
was a reference to one of the starting pitchers and that it was a horrible trade…now I agree with you that the “But there were worse GM’s than Hendry” defense is crap but at least the general direction of this franchise is moving in the right direction…that being said, I personally feel the only reason Hendry is still here and will be here through next year is to try and trade away his mistakes before he is let go.
I Love Larry - Brick are you looking at random things around the room and saying that you love them - I Love Larry
Currently 34,839 on the Season Ticket Wait List - Expected age of being #0: 119
The issue here is not what should happen.
I, personally, do not think he should be back as GM. Most people, I think, agree. But that’s not the issue here, because like it or not, he will be back next year. The Ricketts have more or less shown (so far at least) that they do not want to eat money that is owed to guys who are already under contract. So let’s move on, and try to win in 2011.
"Don't complain to me about the stormy weather, boys. Just bring the ship into port." --Steve Stone, September 2004
It's a long shot....
but I certainly hope that this is not the attitude in the owner’s box and the front office. I was watching Steinbrenner with Roy Firestone on ESPN Classic this morning,
"Don't complain to me about the stormy weather, boys. Just bring the ship into port." --Steve Stone, September 2004
Sorry, hit the "post" button by mistake.
….but all I could think listening to Steinbrenner is how passionate he was about winning. He made a lot of mistakes too, but if the Cubs had an owner that cared about winning even half as much as he did, I’d be happy. The owner’s attitude toward performance sets the tone for the entire organization, just like any business or company. If Ricketts, Hendry and Co. have your attitude going into next year, we’re really screwed.
"Don't complain to me about the stormy weather, boys. Just bring the ship into port." --Steve Stone, September 2004
and most would say that keeping the incompetent general manager
shows they might even had a worse attitude than JSB
by HuskerCorner on Aug 17, 2010 5:56 PM CDT up reply actions
I'll replace "Most" with "some, myself included"
by HuskerCorner on Aug 17, 2010 5:56 PM CDT up reply actions
Count me in that group too.
I defended Hendry long past the point where it was reasonable to do so. I think he needs to be held accountable for this horrific season. I merely am saying that it’s not going to happen. Which, as you correctly point out, is troubling to say the least. I am paying very close attention to how the Cubs brass is going to respond to a season like this. I want to see some action. And if the action is not going with a new GM, then it better be good.
"Don't complain to me about the stormy weather, boys. Just bring the ship into port." --Steve Stone, September 2004
I'm just going to say
that Lou Pineilla is the biggest moron in the City of Chicago. And the fact that Jim Hendry is allowing this buffoon to finish out the season is just ANOTHER reason Hendry himself should be unemployed.
How bad an employee do you have to be in order to get fired in this organization?
I would like a high paying job where I can
under-perform
offer very little to the team
spout inane platitudes that solve nothing
operate on cruise control with no accountability.
Hello Jim Hendry, please hire me, I cannot be any worse that Lou.
The 2010 Randy Hundley Fantasy Camp ruled!!!!
Wha???
Garland didn’t make the majors for like 2 years after that deal. Was it a bad deal? Of course, but I’m not going to trash Lynch for taking a chance and giving away a guy that wa 2 years away from the majors and turned into a middle of the rotation (at-best) guy. You can buy them and the Cubs did with Marquis.
by jerry morales rules on Aug 17, 2010 6:09 PM CDT reply actions
It's the logic that the Cubs should just pay for free agent role players
Rather than saving millions of dollars per year plugging in young, cost-controlled talent that got us into this mess where we have a payroll nearly that of the Red Sox and yet we can’t afford to be players for most of the big name free agents. So in effect by trading for a crappy reliever Lynch cost the club maybe $10m or more to pay a free agent to do what Garland could have done for much less money.
by madcow256 on Aug 17, 2010 6:33 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
No doubt that it turned into a bad deal
I’m not arguing anything different, but my point was that it’s not like the Cubs gave away anything that couldn’t have been easily had on the open market – at a price. Here’s an example of what I mean: Beckett for Ramirez. I’m not saying that it was a bad deal for either team. It did work out well for both; however, the Red Sox gave up a player at a premium position and have had a revolving door there since.
The Cubs have not had any issues signing players over the years. This deal did not impede them one bit. Who were the Cubs prevented from signing because they signed Marquis?
by jerry morales rules on Aug 18, 2010 7:07 AM CDT up reply actions
Lynch's biggest blunder was using a #1 pick on Ben Christensen
just a few months after he intentionally beaned the Evansville hitter in the on deck circle. Lynch has pretty much gotten a free pass on that one, but they both deserved to be lynched. Andy MacPhail, for all of his failures, was a solid gentleman, and how he could allow Lynch to draft Christensen was beyond me. of course, Big Ben was just another wasted draft pick
OK, maybe not his biggest blunder, but it was pretty bad
by holy mackeral on Aug 17, 2010 6:47 PM CDT up reply actions
Actually...
You’re not far off. There’s no way he was a first rounder in talent or makeup. It’s one thing to waste draft picks, but not at this severity.
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Just North of Wrigley Field
by jameslcrockett on Aug 17, 2010 6:49 PM CDT up reply actions
Let's see...
In the last couple years, Hendry has traded Jose Ceda, at the time a top-ranked Cubs prospect, for Kevin Gregg. He also traded Ronny Cedeno and Garrett Olson, at the time both highly-valued assets, for Aaron Heilman. He traded a bunch of stuff that we can’t really say was all that valuable (yet) for John Grabow, and then gave him a multi-year deal.
So, maybe you mean the next GM, Al?
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Just North of Wrigley Field
Polish night
Have the Cubs had other ethnic nights?
''"I always thought I was the most competitive person out there. I never thought I'd find anybody more competitive until I met him.'' Ryan Dempster talking about Ted Lilly
by Madison Cub Fan on Aug 17, 2010 6:26 PM CDT reply actions
Is drunk douche-bag an ethnicity?
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Aug 17, 2010 6:44 PM CDT up reply actions
Ask
Dina Lohan.
Starlin Castro singles on a pop up to catcher Jason LaRue.
Ryan Theriot scores. Two out -Gameday 7/23/10
by Sandberg's evil twin on Aug 17, 2010 6:50 PM CDT up reply actions
My money for "Bad GM" is on Salty Saltwell.
from peanut seller to GM. Doesn’t get worse than that.
by San Diego Smooth Jazz Man on Aug 17, 2010 6:26 PM CDT reply actions
classic. PK Wrigley had no outside connections, so he stayed internal
and hired the head of concessions to be GM. Only the Cubs
by holy mackeral on Aug 17, 2010 6:49 PM CDT up reply actions
Did Castillo eat all of Lou's caviar yesterday?
"A dream you dream alone is only a dream. A dream you dream together is reality." John Lennon
Didn't Lynch make some good trades?
Who got Sosa for George Bell? Larry Hines? That was one of the best.
Did Hendry sign/acquire Dempster? Also good. They’re probably going to need to try for a few other rehab types on the cheap (Prior?). Not likely to land a No. 1 starter via trade or FA. Draft? Maybe, since they’ll be in top 6-8.
Is John Holland still alive? He made lotta good trades (Fergie) but didn’t do well when dumpign the old vets after ‘72 (except got a bit for Santo). Philosophy was different then, you didn’t trade for prospects so much as now. The return for Jenkins (Madlock), Holtzman (Monday), Beckert (Morales), Hundley (Mitterwald), Williams (??) wasn’t great. Madlock was the best and we traded him over salary and other issues!!
Oh well time to move forward need Wells to be good Randy tonite or it’s another Padre Win. Amazing that lineup could score 9 runs, bad teams have pounded our pitchers along with the good hitting teams.
1972
I think Holland did a good job of getting something for broken down players. True, he’ll always be remembered for the Broglio trade, but getting Monday, Madlock, Trillo & North, (for Billy) at a time when these guys were about to retire wasn’t bad. He also helped shape the late 60’s Cubs with deals like Buhl & Jackson for Fergie, Landrum & McDaniel for Hands & Hundley, and Savage & Ellis for Regan & Hickman.
"It's a funny old world. Man's lucky if he gets out of it alive." W.C. Fields
John Holland
Also committed Brock for Broglio.
"All I'm asking for is what I want." -- Ricky Henderson
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