DLee to the Braves?
by cubswynn on Aug 18, 2010 9:23 AM CDT
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I don't have any time to write up something meaningful regarding the move, but I figure it was noteworthy enough for a FanPost. DLee was an all time great Cub and he will be missed, however it was time to part ways.
Two interesting things. 1. the Braves must believe he's healthy. 2. It's interesting he didn't want to go back to the West Coast, but is okay with going to Atlanta.
http://www.chicagonow.com/blogs/david-kaplan-chicago-sports/
This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of SB Nation or Al Yellon, managing editor (unless it's a FanPost posted by Al). FanPost opinions are valued expressions of opinion by passionate and knowledgeable baseball fans.
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So long...
If this goes down, I’ll wish DLee the best. I’ll miss seeing him play and always thought he was a class guy.
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by digitalbenjamin on Aug 18, 2010 9:26 AM CDT reply actions
Crasnik tweet
Not surprisingly, the Cubs don’t seem likely to get big-time prospects in the potential deal.
I can see it now...
…bottom of the 9th, World Series. DLee (Braves) is at the plate facing Kerry Wood (Yankees) with the championship on the line. Who do you cheer for?
"Pounding sand since 1982...."
If it's Yankees-Braves?
I’ll be cheering for Castle and Beckett to sleep together
Everything that can be counted does not necessarily count; everything that counts cannot necessarily be counted. -- Albert Einstein
Wood, he doesnt have a ring like Lee does
"Women...you can't live without them, and they can't pee standing up." Rube Baker
Wood, every time.
Part of me will always despise Lee for 2003 NLCS, same goes for Wood I guess, but I like him more.
"You've got to get your damn shirts rolled up and go out and kick somebody's ass. That's what you've got to do. Period." -- Lou Piniella
Barring injury....
it would be DLee vs. Rivera. Absolutely no way would Wood be in to close out the final game.
John Grabow: $4.8 million in 2011.
Maybe...
…Rivera goes 2+ innings the night before and isn’t available. C’mon, work with me here!
"Pounding sand since 1982...."
Or Rivera Is Hurt
As much as I hate the Yankees, I don’t want any Yankee to get hurt.
"The big possums walk late." - Harry Caray
I seen this bout half hr ago on Kaps Twitter it just says close to a deal then Lee has to accept the deal. I don’t always trust Kaplan either
"Women...you can't live without them, and they can't pee standing up." Rube Baker
But wait??
He’s selfish!
Could it be he just didn’t want to go the AL?
Everything that can be counted does not necessarily count; everything that counts cannot necessarily be counted. -- Albert Einstein
You'd think the AL would be a natural fit for him.
Especially with his recent health issues.
"Pounding sand since 1982...."
AL pitchers are beasts
He doesn’t want any part of the AL
Everything that can be counted does not necessarily count; everything that counts cannot necessarily be counted. -- Albert Einstein
Uh, what?
Ubaldo
Lincecum
Wainright
Carpenter
J. Johnson
Latos
J. Santana
Cain
Pretty sure his reasons have nothing to do with wanting to stay in a league that has lesser pitching.
by Orval Overall on Aug 18, 2010 12:08 PM CDT up reply actions
for argument's sake
you realize the NL pitchers #’s are inflated by pitching in an inferior league (no DH, worse hitters overall, etc)
not to say the NL pitchers aren’t good and wouldn’t be good in the AL, but its a different animal pitching in the AL than it is in the NL and generally pitchers numbers reflect that. Ted Lilly was a perfect example
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by DartmouthCubsFan on Aug 18, 2010 12:14 PM CDT up reply actions
John Garland is another.
"You've got to get your damn shirts rolled up and go out and kick somebody's ass. That's what you've got to do. Period." -- Lou Piniella
So How Do you Explain Barry Zito?
I reject your reality and substitute my own.
by WayneCampbell08 on Aug 18, 2010 7:48 PM CDT up reply actions
Well, if just for argument's sake
There are good pitchers in both leagues. I’m aware of the point you make about switching leagues, but it’s circular reasoning when applied to the issue here. The same pitchers may well have higher ERAs/WHIPs in the AL than they do after they move to the NL for the reason that hitters in the AL are better, and they have to face a DH instead of a pitcher (the two things you cite). All that means here is that similar pitchers in both leagues are expected to have better performances in the NL than in the AL — it by no means corroborates Worf’s original claim that “AL pitchers are beasts” and NL pitchers supposedly are not. The points are logically unrelated.
If anything, the things you cite would tend to suggest that a hitter like Lee would benefit from a move to the AL because his stats will be supported by the generally superior lineups around him.
by Orval Overall on Aug 18, 2010 2:40 PM CDT up reply actions
no not at all
1) other hitters around you don’t impact your ability to hit, there are numerous examples of guys going to the AL after NL success then struggling then coming back to the NL and hitting, see Burrell, Pat as most recent example
2) the point i’m making is a 2.7 ERA in the AL > 2.7 ERA in NL, so all the guys you cite as great pitchers in the NL might be just “good” pitchers in the AL. Meanwhile there are lots of guys in the AL you’re likely discounting as in that same group as the NL guys you listed because there numbers look a bit higher
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by DartmouthCubsFan on Aug 18, 2010 3:57 PM CDT up reply actions
Not Remotely True
The numbers do NOT support your theory. This is why it pisses me off so much that everyone just assumes the AL is “superior” to the NL. Here are the slash lines for each league, followed by the OPS :
American
Batting 1st .268 .332 .364 .696
Batting 2nd .265 .335 .406 .741
Batting 3rd .273 .354 .434 .788
Batting 4th .275 .347 .475 .822
Batting 5th .271 .340 .451 .791
Batting 6th .255 .319 .418 .737
Batting 7th .254 .319 .404 .723
Batting 8th .242 .305 .377 .682
National
Batting 1st .263 .330 .402 .732
Batting 2nd .277 .336 .402 .737
Batting 3rd .284 .365 .472 .837
Batting 4th .267 .344 .445 .788
Batting 5th .268 .343 .449 .792
Batting 6th .260 .328 .414 .743
Batting 7th .253 .313 .387 .701
Batting 8th .243 .320 .363 .683
The NL leads at 1st, 3rd & 6th. The AL leads in the 4th & 7th spots with the 2nd, 5th & 8th batters being essentially even. The only real difference is in the ninth spot where most NL pitchers hit and even there it’s only about a 150 point difference in OPS.
The only thing you can conclude from the table above is that both leagues are pretty much even, I might give the AL tiny, almost insignificant edge overall. But what should be indisputable is the myth that the AL is “superior” to the NL. Or that the NL is “inferior”.
I reject your reality and substitute my own.
by WayneCampbell08 on Aug 18, 2010 7:47 PM CDT up reply actions
"The only real difference is in the ninth spot where most NL pitchers hit and even there it’s only about a 150 point difference in OPS."
A .150 point difference in OPS is pretty huge if you ask me.
Pat Riley is the devil.
BTW
It’s really funny that you say Santana wouldn’t be as good in the AL. HE HAS A MUCH HIGHER FIP & xFIP in the NL. Did you ever think to, you know, check the actual statistics before regurgitating the party line?
I also think it’s hilarious that you don’t think Johnson, Wainwright, Lincecum, Ubaldo & Strasburg wouldn’t dominate the AL.
I reject your reality and substitute my own.
by WayneCampbell08 on Aug 18, 2010 8:04 PM CDT up reply actions
oh hey wayne
hope you have my $10 for me on that reds preseason bet
You’re talking Santana’s prime vs. Santana after injuries. His skills have diminished, his velocity is gone
check interleague play numbers, read any of the number of studies that have been done on this topic or articles written on it
its about a .5 ERA difference in leagues
so Josh Johnson’s 2.27 would be more like a 2.75, still great
Wainwright would still be great
Lincecum… this version the broken one… no not so good
Ubaldo would be good, but not great
guys like Lester would be absurd in the NL, especially all the big parks in the NL West
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by DartmouthCubsFan on Aug 18, 2010 8:33 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
some supporting evidence
http://www.beyondtheboxscore.com/2010/5/21/1480299/interleague-begins-today-al-teams
http://sabermetricresearch.blogspot.com/2007/01/how-much-better-is-al-than-nl.html
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by DartmouthCubsFan on Aug 18, 2010 8:46 PM CDT up reply actions
NL pitchers aren't as good
Deal with it
Everything that can be counted does not necessarily count; everything that counts cannot necessarily be counted. -- Albert Einstein
Deal with what?
I promise you this is not something that will send me to counseling, if that’s what you’re concerned about.
by Orval Overall on Aug 18, 2010 2:34 PM CDT up reply actions
Exactly,
but the Angels are still only 8 GB, perhaps Lee could’ve helped them get back into it, wishful thinking I know, but he could have helped them.
"You've got to get your damn shirts rolled up and go out and kick somebody's ass. That's what you've got to do. Period." -- Lou Piniella
this feels like Cubs kool-aid
8 GB does not make you a contender, it makes you a mediocre baseball team. I know over here we’re used to 85 wins makes you a playoff contender, but over in the big boy league you have to be a 90 win team to get there
the Angels weren’t going to be close to that even if they added Lee
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by DartmouthCubsFan on Aug 18, 2010 9:57 AM CDT up reply actions
Bite me,
I don’t drink any of that kool-aid b.s.
8 GB an untested Rangers team in Mid-July was not unsurmountable. LA isn’t getting any production at 1B. He likely wouldn’t have made that big of a difference but you don’t know that LA couldn’t have made it closer. They have lost no ground in the AL West since Lee vetoed that trade.
"You've got to get your damn shirts rolled up and go out and kick somebody's ass. That's what you've got to do. Period." -- Lou Piniella
a Rangers team that had just acquired Cliff Lee?
8 games is a lot to make up
when the Cubs were 8 games back in mid july their playoff odds were under 7%
that’s not contending
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by DartmouthCubsFan on Aug 18, 2010 10:08 AM CDT up reply actions
I'm not comparing the Cubs to the Angels?
The Angels are a far superior organization and a proven winner and have dominated the AL West for the last few years.
Considering they were not in 4th place in mid July like the Cubs, I’d say their chances of making the playoffs were higher than 7%.
Cliff Lee has done nothing as a Ranger.
"You've got to get your damn shirts rolled up and go out and kick somebody's ass. That's what you've got to do. Period." -- Lou Piniella
And that division in particular is goofy
With four teams in it and nobody ever really sure how good even the best team is.
But the playoff odds are the Alpha and Omega, I guess.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Aug 18, 2010 11:27 AM CDT up reply actions
how is that division goofy?
Texas has practically lead the division all season. In addition the division aligns pretty well with run differentials
Texas +91
LAA -21
Oakland +17
Seattle -123
One team is way better than everyone else, two teams in the middle are mediocre and one team is way worse.
How is this goofy?
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by DartmouthCubsFan on Aug 18, 2010 11:42 AM CDT up reply actions
I still don't understand how people don't see a difference between the two scenarios
Angels: would require changing leagues and learning new pitchers. Would be going to a team that wasn’t likely to make the playoffs (though they had a chance at 8 games back)
vs
Braves: would be in the same league facing many of the same pitchers he’s gotten somewhat used to facing. Would be going to a team that has a very good shot to make the playoffs (leading their division and 3.5 ahead of the next Wild Card team).
Yet people are bickering over whether or not to classify the Angels as contenders? Really? People don’t see the difference in the two scenarios and wonder why he might be willing to waive his rights for Atlanta rather than Anaheim?
by SouthernCub on Aug 18, 2010 11:47 AM CDT up reply actions
I see the difference between ATL and LA.
But Lee didn’t cite going to a contender as his reason for staying, he cited the desire to remain near his family.
"You've got to get your damn shirts rolled up and go out and kick somebody's ass. That's what you've got to do. Period." -- Lou Piniella
He might not have wanted to trash the Angels:
“I vetoed the trade because I don’t think the Angels have a chance to catch the Rangers” is kinda rough.
A player isn't likely to bash an organization publicly...
especially not of Lee’s caliber. I would be VERY surprised if he came out and said “I don’t want to play for the Angels because if I’m traded I want it to be to a contender.”
Citing your family is the easy way out in situations like this. (Theoretically) Nobody will argue with doing what you say is best for your family.
by SouthernCub on Aug 18, 2010 12:47 PM CDT up reply actions
that would still qualify as being selfish
by HuskerCorner on Aug 18, 2010 9:50 AM CDT up reply actions
We are all selfish
Get over it.
Everything that can be counted does not necessarily count; everything that counts cannot necessarily be counted. -- Albert Einstein
Get over what?
I was simply pointing out that you were trying to claim that him refusing a trade because he didn’t want to go the AL was somehow NOT selfish.
It is.
by HuskerCorner on Aug 18, 2010 9:55 AM CDT up reply actions
What the F does that even mean?
Calling him selfish implies that he owes some duty to the Cubs. He doesn’t. Especially when they are trying to get rid of him. It isn’t being selfish, it is simply acting in his own self-interest. Not everything that happens in life is something to get up in arms about. It is perfectly reasonable that Lee would reject a trade to a fringe contender in a different league that had zero chance of signing him in the off-season.
by JSB on Aug 18, 2010 1:53 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
What's wrong with him being selfish
If you are using selfish as a synonym for self-interested, I agree he is being selfish. By why shouldn’t he be selfish?
He doesn’t owe the Cubs to take a trade and he certainly doesn’t owe it to you the fan to take a trade. You look like an ass when you get mad that a player doesn’t want to change jobs to help a soon-to-be former employer.
Or he didn't think it worth the hassle to his family to go to a team with no shot, although still a better
team than the Cubs. He wants a chance to win, that sounds good to me, too.
And here I thought
him not going to the Angels was a sign that he didn’t care about winning.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Aug 18, 2010 2:09 PM CDT up reply actions
I lost track of what it meant
Everything that can be counted does not necessarily count; everything that counts cannot necessarily be counted. -- Albert Einstein
I think it meant the Cubs didn't get a low-level prospect from the Angels
Somehow that infuriated people. Don’t ask me why.
Agreed
It’s funny!! Just last month DLee wanted to honor his contract and stay with the Cubs, so he vetoed a trade to his home state where he is building a house as to not uproot his family, but now that a contender is in the picture, it’s hell yeah trade me. It had nothing to do with honor, it’s all about winning.
In my book, DLee has overstayed his welcome, time to move on.
Your book sucks
Everything that can be counted does not necessarily count; everything that counts cannot necessarily be counted. -- Albert Einstein
by Worf on Aug 18, 2010 9:46 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Worf
It doesn’t suck…it just varies from yours
Maybe, he hasn’t “overstayed his welcome”, but rather, the toll of playing for the Cubs has just worn him down.
It's talk like this.......
that explains why Worf is so selfish. The years of losing have taken a toll on Worf too.
If you had the choice
of being away from your family/uprooting them to go from 10 games out of the playoffs to 8 games out what would you do?
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by hansman1982 on Aug 18, 2010 11:10 AM CDT up reply actions
a reasonable shot at the playoffs
the Angels did not have that, the Braves do…and again, gaining only 2 games in an arguably stronger division when the top team recently acquired one of the best pitchers in the game is being in about the same spot – I sure as hell wouldnt have left my family/uprooted them to be put in the situation that the Angels are in, especially when you consider that Lee isnt Pujols and probably isnt going to give them the needed WAR to overcome the 8 games.
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by hansman1982 on Aug 18, 2010 12:05 PM CDT up reply actions
very true
and to some extent he will be able to choose where he goes…I just wouldnt want to leave them for 8 weeks to not have a shot at the playoffs when you can leave them for 4 weeks and most likely goto the playoffs
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by hansman1982 on Aug 18, 2010 12:14 PM CDT up reply actions
Isn't Lee building a house in LA?
And isn’t that where the Angels play?
Not to mention that we're a few weeks closer to the end of the season...
so there’s less uncertainty now than then. Going to a division leader with three weeks less in the season seems like a lot better bet to make the playoffs than going to a team that’s ~8 games back (with no shot at the wild card) with two months left.
And that still ignores the issue of not having to change leagues and learn an entirely new set of pitchers.
by SouthernCub on Aug 18, 2010 12:08 PM CDT up reply actions
Lee doesn't hit NL pitchers,
who he’s seen for his entire career very well.
"You've got to get your damn shirts rolled up and go out and kick somebody's ass. That's what you've got to do. Period." -- Lou Piniella
So imagine how tough it would be on him to have to learn new pitchers...
given that he’s struggling now.
by SouthernCub on Aug 18, 2010 12:45 PM CDT up reply actions
I know, I was joking,
the guy isn’t very good anymore, changing leagues probably wouldn’t be that big of a drop off.
"You've got to get your damn shirts rolled up and go out and kick somebody's ass. That's what you've got to do. Period." -- Lou Piniella
It may still be a big deal to him...
I doubt he’s thinking “well, I stink, so it doesn’t matter.” Sometimes self-perception does not equal reality.
by SouthernCub on Aug 18, 2010 12:48 PM CDT up reply actions
Who cares. Its moot.
He’s screwed either way…The NL East is arguably the toughest division in the NL pitching wise, he’ll have to face guys like Halladay, Johnson, Hamels, Santana, Strasburg, etc…He’s going to struggle either way. I wouldn’t think there would be much of a drop-off if he was to go the AL.
Lee couldn’t do squat with against the NL central with the exception of the Cardinals this past weekend. He’s not gonna improve significantly no matter where he goes.
"You've got to get your damn shirts rolled up and go out and kick somebody's ass. That's what you've got to do. Period." -- Lou Piniella
Well, I suspect that maybe HE cares...
which is kind of the point.
It’s his career and his choice whether or not to waive the 10/5 rights and allow a trade. So if he thinks staying in the NL will be easier for him, then it absolutely matters. He’s not thinking about this from a Cubs fan perspective, nor should he be doing so.
It may be that it’s even simpler than that, and that it just comes down to whether or not Atlanta gives him a better chance at the playoffs than Anaheim. But if he feels that switching leagues would be tough on him as a hitter, then that makes it immediately relevant (regardless of whether we think he’d suck or not either way).
Why would the Braves do this deal?
Is Glaus hurt? Or have they gone nuts and decided to try Glaus at 3B again?
"You've got to get your damn shirts rolled up and go out and kick somebody's ass. That's what you've got to do. Period." -- Lou Piniella
My buddy (Braves fan)...
…thinks Glaus will be reduced to a bench role. Prado to 3rd.
"Pounding sand since 1982...."
Interesting,
I thought Glaus was having a better year offensively than Lee is. I could see them platooning all 3 of them with Glaus filling in occasionally at both 3rd and 1st. In order to give Lee the occasional day off that he’ll need with a bad back.
"You've got to get your damn shirts rolled up and go out and kick somebody's ass. That's what you've got to do. Period." -- Lou Piniella
glaus is
hitting .170 his last 30 days
by cozmotaylor123 on Aug 18, 2010 9:55 AM CDT up reply actions
Glaus is
a mess at first base. It’s no surprise that the Braves are looking to upgrade their defense as the playoffs move closer.
by Damen Jackson on Aug 18, 2010 10:01 AM CDT up reply actions
Very good point.
Even if Glaus was hitting he is a sub-par defensive 1B.
"You've got to get your damn shirts rolled up and go out and kick somebody's ass. That's what you've got to do. Period." -- Lou Piniella
Glaus isn't hurt.
But he plays like he is.
just wondering
if the cubs put lee on waivers and the braves claimed him, would lee still be able to block the move if the cubs just let him go? is a waiver claim still considered a trade?
No??
I’m thinking of Alex Rios. The White Sox claimed him and he had no say in blocking. Maybe, the guess the difference is Rios had a full no-trade clause. Do 10-5 rights work differently?
Yes.
Anyone with 10-and-5 rights can block a waiver claim.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
Found this
in the comments section of this article. apparently, he can.
by circuitclout on Aug 18, 2010 9:53 AM CDT up reply actions
Yes he could block
But no, this was not a waiver claim (if it was, they would have had a 48.5 hour window to work out a trade, and other teams wouldn’t be inquiring about Lee as has been rumored).
Jessica had BETTER do D Lee updates
Everything that can be counted does not necessarily count; everything that counts cannot necessarily be counted. -- Albert Einstein
and you'd BETTER whine like an elementary school student
about how you were forced to read them
by HuskerCorner on Aug 18, 2010 9:57 AM CDT up reply actions
I don't whine over being forced to read them
I mock them.
Everything that can be counted does not necessarily count; everything that counts cannot necessarily be counted. -- Albert Einstein
+1
anyone know how Hee Seop Choi is hitting these days?
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by hansman1982 on Aug 18, 2010 11:11 AM CDT up reply actions
Maybe we can start www.bleedformercubbieblue.com
10-20 game threads a day, the content there would blow you mind away.
classic Hendry respect deal for a veteran AKA Maddux
This locker room is dead, Lee knows it as do many others. He needs to have a good 6 weeks so he can get a contract next year in a visible setting.
As I look at it we are stuck with Ramirez through next year as with Soriano. 2012 might open something when DH comes to the NL. Zambrano could be moved. Fukudome is the 4th OF’er.
I think Byrd is traded over the winter because of Fukudome/Colvin where the path is open to bring up Jackson.
Piniella: "This is a tougher job than I thought it would be, I'm going to be honest with you."
Hendry gets shat on a lot.
And for good reason. But the DLee trade may have been one of the best deals in the history of the franchise.
"Pounding sand since 1982...."
Agreed.
The Lee and Ramirez trades provided a foundation for the team that lasted seven seasons. 2010 is a sad way for it to end, with both guys having down years. But Hendry acquired two cornerstone players (and two months of Kenny Lofton) for essentially nothing.
It was a great move by Hendry, so was Aram.
We buy pretty good, but have a hard time selling our better chips.
and/or
signing chips for contracts…maybe we just need better salsa
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by hansman1982 on Aug 18, 2010 11:12 AM CDT up reply actions
Jerry Crasnick tweet
I was told Cubs are likely to receive lower-level prospects. Braves aren’t going to deal Beachy, Teheran or other higher-level prospects
"A dream you dream alone is only a dream. A dream you dream together is reality." John Lennon
is this a surprise?
Moving DLee is part of two things:
1. Letting a veteran, who isnt going to be on next years team, get a shot at the playoffs.
2. Salary relief
I dont care what we get back just get it done…
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by hansman1982 on Aug 18, 2010 12:26 PM CDT up reply actions
So if Lee leaves,
I think we should try Ramirez at 1b for the rest of the season. Sure, he’s going to suck at first, but I think it’s an interesting idea that many have speculated could occur on the day that we drafted Vitters.
Viva la Cubs Révolution!!!
At least he won't throw balls into the stands at first
"A dream you dream alone is only a dream. A dream you dream together is reality." John Lennon
agree
It would move DeWitt to 3B and then Baker/Barney to 2B, but who then gets called up?
Piniella: "This is a tougher job than I thought it would be, I'm going to be honest with you."
Hoffpauir is probably right
Piniella: "This is a tougher job than I thought it would be, I'm going to be honest with you."
YAY
we get 6 weeks of hearing about how Hoffpauir is not a major leaguer…
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by hansman1982 on Aug 18, 2010 11:15 AM CDT up reply actions
Jesus...
Are there really 6 weeks left to this terrible season?
"You’re playing a baseball game. You’re not playing Tiddlywinks. There is competition, for God’s sake."— Lou Piniella
Eh, I'd just keep him at 3B...
and play whomever (Nady/Colvin/Hoffpauir/Baker) at 1B. Vitters is still probably a year or two away at least (he stunk in AA this year), so Ramirez will be gone by the time that Vitters would be ready anyway.
by SouthernCub on Aug 18, 2010 11:16 AM CDT up reply actions
but its also possible
that the likelihood of injury decreases playing first so that potentially gives us an option at first beyond 2011 that would be able to have a similar offensive season to Dunn with, at least, the same defensive production and about half the K’s
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by hansman1982 on Aug 18, 2010 11:31 AM CDT up reply actions
Possibly...
but then we still have to find an offensive replacement at 3B. As of now, there’s no reason to assume that Vitters will be that guy (he’s shown little to suggest it in the minors to this point). Power at 1B is a lot easier to find elsewhere.
by SouthernCub on Aug 18, 2010 11:33 AM CDT up reply actions
hes also 20 years old
and not everyone who is going to succeed in the majors is ready at 20-21…lets see what the next year or two says about him before we write him off
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by hansman1982 on Aug 18, 2010 12:01 PM CDT up reply actions
I didn't write him off
I’m just saying I wouldn’t uproot Ramirez right now based on the concept that Vitters will take over.
There’s certainly lots of time for Vitters to prove himself. And if he does, then the Cubs can make a decision as to whether to move Ramirez to 1B or simply find a new 1B via free agency.
by SouthernCub on Aug 18, 2010 12:10 PM CDT up reply actions
and this would be the
opportunity to see if he is even capable at 1st or if a throw in the dirt would always get past him…its not like we have any hot prospects waiting for 1st base either
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by hansman1982 on Aug 18, 2010 12:15 PM CDT up reply actions
Or it might be the opportunity to rebound for next year
If the Cubs think Dunn is a good short-term answer, for example.
I don’t think 1B will be filled by a prospect. But if the team doesn’t want to throw away next season, moving Ramirez to 1B is a bad idea.
Ultimately, I think Ramirez is just gone if Vitters makes it. I don’t think they’ll be looking to move him to 1B either way.
by SouthernCub on Aug 18, 2010 12:27 PM CDT up reply actions
and it also depends
on what Hendry has working in the trade department…could be going after either position trying to move Z, Fukudome, Byrd, etc…
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by hansman1982 on Aug 18, 2010 12:30 PM CDT up reply actions
I'd be inclined to just keep Ramirez at 3B...
there are always suitable 1B to be had. 3B with power are much harder to find. I see no real benefit to moving Ramirez now unless the team is VERY sure that Vitters is going to be the next 3B. And even if Vitters IS definitely the 3B of the future, I don’t see a need to commit to moving an aging Ramirez at (he’d be 34-35 by the time Vitters is ready), when we could probably find a similarly-effective alternative via free agency.
by SouthernCub on Aug 18, 2010 12:33 PM CDT up reply actions
Agreed
There is no value in moving Ramirez. He is not a player who will age well. The best plan is to plan for him to leave after 2011. If by some chance he does bounce back then maybe consider a short deal after that. However in all likelihood he has one more year for the Cubs.
John Grabow: $4.8 million in 2011.
Dunn to 3b, Cliff Lee to 1b and Ramirez to the rotation
…I agree, Ramirez has no lasting value to this team due to his injuries, 1b might help mitigate that but with the options for 1b for next year and 2011 its not worth a long term look
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by hansman1982 on Aug 18, 2010 12:48 PM CDT up reply actions
Rosenthal tweets:
Glaus could be placed on DL if #Braves acquire Lee. Also told that Lee has signaled willingness to waive no-trade rights. #Cubs #MLB
Interesting that DLee might OK this...
He wouldn’t go to LAAAAA, in his home state, but he would go to Hotlanta. I can think of four possible reasons:
1. He didn’t think the Angels were close enough to contention. The Braves look like a much better bet.
2. He wants to be a part of Bobby Cox’s last team.
3. He finally realizes that the Cubs won’t re-sign him, so he wants a post-season stage on which to showcase himself for next year.
4. He has gotten sick of the Cubs’ clubhouse.
I’m leaning towards #3 or #4, but it may be a combination. Anyone else have other ideas?
"I've never complained about it. I'm thankful to have a jersey." Mark DeRosa, 22 Aug 2007
Overwhelmingly #3
"It was a perfect situation for the Brewers," Hill said. "They had a guy up there at the plate [in Counsell] who takes a lot of pride in what he does and he practices those situations, so when it does come up, he gets the bunt down to the right side of the field. They have the perfect guy on first base [in Gomez], who is one of the fastest guys in the league, and they had one of the worst fundamental teams on the field, so it was a perfect situation for them."
by louslovechild on Aug 18, 2010 12:04 PM CDT up reply actions
I'm skeptical about the re-signing thing playing a factor
As I’d assume his future (or lack thereof) with the Cubs was laid out for him when he was approached with the Angels deal.
I'd say #1 would be the big one...
and then MAYBE #4. #2 is probably really low on the list, and #3 he probably knew already.
by SouthernCub on Aug 18, 2010 12:19 PM CDT up reply actions
#4 is an impossibility
who could get sick of a clubhouse that includes Marlon Byrd! He is the king of chemistry. His nap-time stories and graham-cracker passing out skills are unrivaled.
Aren’t you aware at how much better the clubhouse improved with Bradley gone and Byrd inserted???? How could anyone want to leave this?
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by DartmouthCubsFan on Aug 18, 2010 12:16 PM CDT up reply actions
My bad... :-)
"I've never complained about it. I'm thankful to have a jersey." Mark DeRosa, 22 Aug 2007
4. He has gotten sick of the Cubs’ clubhouse.
Why does everyone assume that this clubhouse is “bad”?
because we stink
so the clubhouse must be bad
if we were winning the clubhouse would be assumed to be good
and for some reason its assumed that the chemistry dictates the record
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by DartmouthCubsFan on Aug 18, 2010 12:41 PM CDT up reply actions
option
If DLee didn’t care about going to a contender, he could go to the Dodgers, play for Joe Torre (he is likely to retire after the season according to Paul Morosi) and have quality clubhouse guys in Lilly and Theriot and live in his home state. As for showcasing for next season, he just needs to ask Jermaine Dye how holding out for more money worked out for him.
Cubs would face DLee this weekend.
That would be extremely odd and a little sad to see.
"It was a perfect situation for the Brewers," Hill said. "They had a guy up there at the plate [in Counsell] who takes a lot of pride in what he does and he practices those situations, so when it does come up, he gets the bunt down to the right side of the field. They have the perfect guy on first base [in Gomez], who is one of the fastest guys in the league, and they had one of the worst fundamental teams on the field, so it was a perfect situation for them."
No way...easy out.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Aug 18, 2010 12:44 PM CDT up reply actions
I can see it now:
Big Z drills Lee in his first AB, bench clearing brawl and hilarity ensue.
"You've got to get your damn shirts rolled up and go out and kick somebody's ass. That's what you've got to do. Period." -- Lou Piniella
Would make for a 1 day "road trip" for Lee
Go to ATL for Thursday’s game and return to Chicago and the family by Thursday night.
"They come to see me strike out, hit a home run, or run into a fence. I try to accommodate them at least one way every game." - Gorman Thomas
by RiskyBusiness on Aug 18, 2010 12:58 PM CDT up reply actions
Lee in Atlanta?
Since his Memphis Chicks days, I don’t think he has played for a team in the traditional, cultural South, if you will. Yeah, I know the Florida Marlins were way further south geographically than Memphis or Atlanta. I don’t count south Florida as being in the traditional, cultural South, like I do with north Florida.
Why the heck does this matter? I’m just saying Atlanta will provide a different cultural environment than what D-Lee is used to.
"The big possums walk late." - Harry Caray
as a south floridian
neither do we
I’m glad others get it.
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by DartmouthCubsFan on Aug 18, 2010 12:17 PM CDT up reply actions
Miami has nothing in common with Pensacola
except a governor.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Aug 18, 2010 12:25 PM CDT up reply actions
As a North Floridian (which I'd say is part of the cultural South), I agree
I feel like most folks just think of all of Florida as not part of the South.
by SouthernCub on Aug 18, 2010 12:25 PM CDT up reply actions
totally agree
there’s a big distinction within the state
pretty much north of palm beach (with the exception of orlando) has the cultural influences of the south in it.
I’ve had the opposite reaction when people find out where i’m from, people seem to expect that because i’m from Florida i have a rich history with southern culture (which i have none)
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by DartmouthCubsFan on Aug 18, 2010 12:28 PM CDT up reply actions
Huh, weird...
Perhaps it’s a location thing? Maybe East Coasters view Florida as “New York/New Jersey South”, whereas other places don’t make that connection?
by SouthernCub on Aug 18, 2010 12:30 PM CDT up reply actions
i'm not sure
i went to school in the east and ran into a lot of people declaring i was “from the south”
Its probably just confirmation bias. I’m more sensitive to hearing myself included in the “south” so i probably recognize those instances more and i’m sure the same applies for people with the rich southern tradition being treated like they’re from LA because they’re from FLA
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by DartmouthCubsFan on Aug 18, 2010 12:33 PM CDT up reply actions
I'm Not A Hillbilly From Extreme West Tennessee
I’ve been called a “hillbilly” because I’m from Tennessee, but I’m from the flattest part of the state. “Hillbilly” is often used in a derogatory way, but the hilliest part of the state is way east of where I am. I don’t want to call anybody in east Tennessee a “hillbilly”.
Oh, this is a Cubs blog. I’m sorry for running off on a tangent. Oops!
"The big possums walk late." - Harry Caray
West Tennessee is very different
from Middle and East Tennessee — in geography, demographics and culture.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Aug 18, 2010 12:48 PM CDT up reply actions
On the Flip Side...
I consider southern Illinois, southern Indiana, and a lot of southern Ohio to be in the “cultural” South, even though all of those areas are north of the Ohio River.
"The big possums walk late." - Harry Caray
Absolutely true about Southern Illinois
Anything south of about Interstate 70 is different than the rest of the state. Below I-64, that becomes even more pronounced.
The northern two-thirds of Illinois were settled primarily by people who came from Indiana, Michigan and Ohio. The southern third came from Kentucky and Tennessee. The cultural differences are stark, and so have been the political differences, although those have become much more blurred in recent years.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Aug 18, 2010 12:50 PM CDT up reply actions
There are counties in southern Illinois that wanted to ceceede in the 1860's
by Shanghai Badger on Aug 18, 2010 2:28 PM CDT up reply actions
Yep
It’s the only part of Illinois where cotton and tobacco are grown, although not a lot of either.
Chicago and Southern Ill. were the two Democratic bastions of the state, although the south is becoming more Republican as some of the Chicago suburbs are becoming more Democratic.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Aug 18, 2010 2:43 PM CDT up reply actions
I consider Southern Illinois to be the land that time forgot
Everything that can be counted does not necessarily count; everything that counts cannot necessarily be counted. -- Albert Einstein
God's Country
It’s really a very pretty part of the state — hills, forests, etc. Problem is, unless you work for the state or for SIU, it’s tough to find a good job down there.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Aug 18, 2010 2:42 PM CDT up reply actions
If history is any guide
the cubs aren’t going to get anything of value in this deal…
Micah Bowie, Andy Pratt, Richard Lewis, Jose Ascanio, Joey Nation, Ruben Quevedo, Todd Blackford, Angelo Burrows…
i’ll be happy just to save the money.
3.5 million
is a reliever next year
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by hansman1982 on Aug 18, 2010 12:19 PM CDT up reply actions
its 75%
of John Grabow.
f.
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by DartmouthCubsFan on Aug 18, 2010 12:22 PM CDT up reply actions
i wish
grabow makes $4.8 mil next year
by circuitclout on Aug 18, 2010 12:23 PM CDT up reply actions
Hopefully we can sign more mediocre relievers next year because are middle relief is really bad!
"Matt Capps is more valuable than Albert Pujols."---by Doggie Stalker on Aug 16, 2010 9:35 PM PDT
by LouPiniellaIsRetiring on Aug 18, 2010 12:24 PM CDT up reply actions
Grabow, Cashner and AAA are AWESOME relievers!
It is the sole strength of this team!
I Love Larry - Brick are you looking at random things around the room and saying that you love them - I Love Larry
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by hansman1982 on Aug 18, 2010 12:27 PM CDT up reply actions
who’s AAA? you mean all the triple a relievers? mmm
"Matt Capps is more valuable than Albert Pujols."---by Doggie Stalker on Aug 16, 2010 9:35 PM PDT
by LouPiniellaIsRetiring on Aug 18, 2010 12:30 PM CDT up reply actions
yes the AAA revolving door is working well!
I Love Larry - Brick are you looking at random things around the room and saying that you love them - I Love Larry
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by hansman1982 on Aug 18, 2010 12:45 PM CDT up reply actions
chanelling TJ here...
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by hansman1982 on Aug 18, 2010 12:46 PM CDT up reply actions
you're right
signing veteran relievers to multi-year deals is really the way to go
by circuitclout on Aug 18, 2010 1:07 PM CDT up reply actions
and it has to be
at least 4-5 mill a year with a full NTC
I Love Larry - Brick are you looking at random things around the room and saying that you love them - I Love Larry
Currently 34,839 on the Season Ticket Wait List - Expected age of being #0: 119
Especially if it's Matt Capps
He’s more valuable than Albert Pujols
by HuskerCorner on Aug 18, 2010 1:19 PM CDT up reply actions
Yep, we have two MLB relievers on this team
Marshall & Marmol, that’s it
"Any player who gets the opportunity to play at Wrigley should welcome it"
Cashner still has potential to me
but needs to work on getting some movement and viable 2nd and 3rd pitches…
I Love Larry - Brick are you looking at random things around the room and saying that you love them - I Love Larry
Currently 34,839 on the Season Ticket Wait List - Expected age of being #0: 119
The trade is good if
it kills any potential – real or imagined – chance of resigning Lee for 2011.
"They come to see me strike out, hit a home run, or run into a fence. I try to accommodate them at least one way every game." - Gorman Thomas
by RiskyBusiness on Aug 18, 2010 12:55 PM CDT up reply actions
as of 12:10 PM
The teams will finalize a deal this afternoon, according to Bob Nightengale of USA Today (on Twitter). Glaus will move to the bench.
YAY!
Thank you Derek for the great years here, I am glad to have seen you as a Cubbie and will go down as one of the best ones we have had (at least to me. Derrick, you will be greatly missed but best wishes and here is to hoping that Derreck will be able to have another World Series Ring to add to the Derik Lee household.
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Wow. You spelled his name 4 different ways
And not one of them is correct
by Shanghai Badger on Aug 18, 2010 1:25 PM CDT up reply actions
What kind of spelling of Dirok do you spell?
I Love Larry - Brick are you looking at random things around the room and saying that you love them - I Love Larry
Currently 34,839 on the Season Ticket Wait List - Expected age of being #0: 119
hahaha
"That's life, that's what all the people say.
You're riding high in April,
Shot down in May
But I know I'm gonna change that tune,
When I'm back on top, back on top in June."
- Big boy Frankie
by lexmarklover on Aug 18, 2010 1:41 PM CDT up reply actions
But that says Bruce Leg!
I TOLD YOU FOOLS TO STAY IN SCHOOL!
Everything that can be counted does not necessarily count; everything that counts cannot necessarily be counted. -- Albert Einstein
Please throw a really expensive car in with the deal
Anything to get Lou to stop batting Derrek third in the lineup.
RIP Ronnie James Dio (July 10, 1942 - May 16, 2010).
Free BLou
Trade DeWitt too
Please include DeWitt in any deal to the Braves. The Cubs have already had DeWitt playing 2B for them a few years ago…his name was Todd Walker. Neither of them were good defensively, neither of them were better than average hitters and neither of them could run. They tried a guy like DeWitt once before…he doesn’t deserve and everyday job on a team that really wants to win…hence the rub of course.
"When the day comes with that last winning run and I'm crying and covered in beer. I'll look to the sky and know I was right to think someday we'll go all the way." - Vedder
yeah and of course we have great fill ins right? god you can’t be happy with a average second baseman with upside and a somewhat good potential who’s 24 years old? what a joke
Neither of them were good defensively
wrong again. DeWitt is a really good third baseman and a solid second baseman who has good on base skills.
in 2008 he had a 11.9 UZR/150. he’s not great but he’s a huge upgrade over the midget theriot (- war)
"Matt Capps is more valuable than Albert Pujols."---by Doggie Stalker on Aug 16, 2010 9:35 PM PDT
by LouPiniellaIsRetiring on Aug 18, 2010 2:25 PM CDT up reply actions
I don't disagree with your premise,
but he didn’t have an 11.9 UZR/150 in 2008, unless you’re willing to throw out the -20.3 UZR/150 he posted at 2B that season.
Right now, Blake DeWitt could be a useful backup for a team with plans to contend. I fear that the team will consider him a viable 2B starter, however. He’s never been anything better than “lousy” at 2B in his career, and his bat doesn’t, at this point, indicate that he’s a plausible option for a team with championship aspirations.
MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown
yeah i meant he had that UZR/150 at third base in 2008.
"Matt Capps is more valuable than Albert Pujols."---by Doggie Stalker on Aug 16, 2010 9:35 PM PDT
by LouPiniellaIsRetiring on Aug 18, 2010 5:11 PM CDT up reply actions
This is pretty dumb
There are more dissimilarities between Walker and DeWitt than similarities. They are both 2B, have a similar stature and have a decent bat with a little bit of pop, but aren’t speedy. The obvious dissimilarity: DeWitt is 24, Walker was at the end of his career when the Cubs had him. DeWitt is also a much better defensive player. DeWitt is a fine stopgap on a rebuilding team. No reason to give him away.
DeWitt is also substantially cheaper...
And regardless, it’s not like Walker was a bad player. The knock on Walker was that he wasn’t good defensively (which is not really the case for DeWitt), and he bristled at a platoon role (which probably isn’t an issue with DeWitt).
At 24 and for the league minimum, DeWitt will be a very cost-effective player next year. And if he develops at the plate, he becomes a real bargain for us. And worst case, he becomes a backup/platoon 2B/3B and LH bat off the bench for the mininum. Trading him makes very little sense.
It also ignores the fact
that DeWitt has hit .291 / .361 / .436 as a Cub. I know small sample size but still throwing him away doesn’t make sense. At worst he becomes a cheap bench player when the Cubs have an adequate replacement.
John Grabow: $4.8 million in 2011.
Walker was a better hitter IMO.
They do resemble each other slightly. DeWitt needs some wrap-around/Danny Tartabull sunglasses and needs to keep rocking a 5-o’clock shadow every day.
"You've got to get your damn shirts rolled up and go out and kick somebody's ass. That's what you've got to do. Period." -- Lou Piniella
Salary dump
A large market team making a salary dump….I’ve seen everything now. This organization does not want to win. Never has. Quite possibly never will.
"When the day comes with that last winning run and I'm crying and covered in beer. I'll look to the sky and know I was right to think someday we'll go all the way." - Vedder
yes, how dare the Cubs trade away their 34 year old bad first baseman. The Cubs need D-Lee because he’s in the pennant race. Oh wait, there not. dumbass
"Matt Capps is more valuable than Albert Pujols."---by Doggie Stalker on Aug 16, 2010 9:35 PM PDT
by LouPiniellaIsRetiring on Aug 18, 2010 2:26 PM CDT up reply actions
umm..I don't know what your gripe is
1. We are not winning this year
2. Lee is already a million years old and he really shouldn’t be part of our team’s future. Now if there is a chance for us to be contenders in 2011 then we may offer Lee a 1-2 year deal. But the Cubs are going no where in 2011. We have way too many holes to fill.
So big market teams never dump players who are well past their primes? Also, this is not really a ‘dump’ because Lee is gone after this year and we already paid much of his 2010 contract.
Krummy must be holding out hope that the Cubs are making a great September run.
John Grabow: $4.8 million in 2011.
And climb back to 3rd in the division
This team has been toast for a while and with key players aging, the sooner turnover happens the better.
140 million dollar payroll fro the Cubs
v. the Padres 40 mil. Not much bang for our buck.
by San Diego Smooth Jazz Man on Aug 18, 2010 4:08 PM CDT reply actions
In mortgage lingo
the Cubs would be underwater.
"They come to see me strike out, hit a home run, or run into a fence. I try to accommodate them at least one way every game." - Gorman Thomas
by RiskyBusiness on Aug 18, 2010 4:15 PM CDT up reply actions
How do people view the Padre' turnaround this season?
Just luck or due more to changes from the new GM?
I'm going with luck
that team doesn’t appear to on paper have much talent. They’re just winning games.
Viva la Cubs Révolution!!!
Rosenthal Tweet deal is done
Ken_Rosenthal
Three young pitchers to #Cubs: RH Robinson Lopez, RH Tyrelle Harris, LH Jeffrey Lorick. #Braves #MLB
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by DartmouthCubsFan on Aug 18, 2010 4:29 PM CDT reply actions
Sad, but probably necessary
You guys wanted youth. You got it. Hope you’re happy.
But youth alone is not going to get it done.
No reason — none whatsoever — for this team not to be able to contend next year. None. None.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Aug 18, 2010 4:31 PM CDT up reply actions
you've yet to respond
to HOW you think they can contend?
not once that i’ve seen. you just keep demanding it
NO REASON – none whatsoever – i shouldn’t be handed 100 dollars tomorrow. None None
WHY????
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by DartmouthCubsFan on Aug 18, 2010 4:33 PM CDT up reply actions
They can spend some money now
and get Dunn or CLee.
Again, DCF: This is NOT Pittsburgh. This is NOT Cleveland. This is NOT Kansas City.
This is Chicago. This is a big enough market where this team must contend every year, or else we’re going back to the good-old days of sucking forever and ever.
There is no reason not to contend. The fan base expects it, as well they should.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Aug 18, 2010 4:35 PM CDT up reply actions
the fan-base isn't realistic
you thought they were contenders this year, they’re one of the worst teams in baseball
they can’t spend much next year, they’re payroll is still around 110 million for next season
and finally, you think just adding Dunn OR Cliff Lee improves this team by 20-25 wins?? HOW? This is ridiculous.
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by DartmouthCubsFan on Aug 18, 2010 4:39 PM CDT up reply actions 2 recs
It's only ridiculous if you sit in a lab all day
Otherwise, it isn’t.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Aug 18, 2010 4:39 PM CDT up reply actions
right
instead of answering with logic or reason, just throw uneducated insults. Good strategy
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by DartmouthCubsFan on Aug 18, 2010 4:40 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Nothing uneducated about it
I’ve got a master’s degree, but I also like living in the real world.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Aug 18, 2010 4:45 PM CDT up reply actions
its uneducated
to suggest i sit in a lab all-day and don’t live in the real world
and looks even worse given the recent history of my ability to project whats likely and yours
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by DartmouthCubsFan on Aug 18, 2010 4:47 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
There you go again
I know it wouldn’t take long for the arrogance to come out.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Aug 18, 2010 5:00 PM CDT up reply actions
incredible
so me referencing our prognostication skills is arrogance
and you implying i dont live in the real world is??? What would you say?
Just provide me some decent reasoning as to why adding Adam Dunn or Cliff Lee creates 20-25 extra wins? I’d love to hear it
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by DartmouthCubsFan on Aug 18, 2010 5:01 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Flexibility will be the key
to the Cubs chances at contending next year. If they’re able to gain salary relief by trading some guys, or if Ricketts comes up with an extra amount of money to spend, then there will be resources to acquire the likes of Dunn and Lee.
But here’s where I tend to agree with DCF – there aren’t enough available players this coming offseason to transform the Cubs into contenders next year. What other impact-level FAs will be on the market, besides the two I mentioned and Carl Crawford? Assuming the Cubs sign all three, it seems to me we’d still need help in the outfield and the bullpen.
Perhaps those areas of concern will be filled internally (Colvin, Cashner, B. Jackson, J. Jackson). But that’s contingent upon all of them developing into productive major-leaguers. Not saying it won’t happen – only that it’s rare.
I’d prefer that the front office not try to do everything in one offseason, but instead take a couple offseasons targeting and signing impact players to fill weak areas. Get Dunn for 1B and Lee to head the rotation for 2011. Then do the same in the 2011-2012 offseason – let the bad contracts expire and use the freed-up money to fill the holes with All-Star caliber FAs. While still developing and producing home grown talent, of course.
I'll go to my grave believing Armando Galarraga tossed the 21st perfect game in MLB history.
Come on
You read a projection that someone else made. Not hard to do. Don’t act like you re-invented the wheel. Most rational people thought the Cubs were an 80-85 team this season. For a variety of reasons they have turned out to be much worse. I recall a few months ago that I suggested that they would be worse than the 2006 Cubs and you disagreed saying they were better. You don’t have it all figured out.
by JSB on Aug 18, 2010 5:20 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
not saying i do at all
by any means…
i was referencing my skill at it compared to NBF who ignores all statistical evidence as hogwash and goes based on gut instincts
in the sample of projecting this season my references of statistical analysis were far better than NBF’s gut
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by DartmouthCubsFan on Aug 18, 2010 5:25 PM CDT up reply actions
I don't ignore that
But you certainly put more stock into it than you should.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Aug 18, 2010 5:29 PM CDT up reply actions
give me the example
of when i’ve put too much stock into it
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by DartmouthCubsFan on Aug 18, 2010 5:32 PM CDT up reply actions
They're all over this board
in every thread you post. The almighty stats overpower all.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Aug 18, 2010 5:35 PM CDT up reply actions
Um, baseball is a game about stats
Unlike every other sport, most of the game is a one-on-one pitcher vs. hitter battle. It can be reduced to statistics more so than any other game. That is part of the beauty of the game in my opinion. I don’t see why you seem so hell-bent on ignoring that.
It's also part
of the curse of the game.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Aug 18, 2010 5:57 PM CDT up reply actions
I'll take a stab at an idea as to why
Because some people (I don’t mean NBF specifically, I mean in general) want a break from the analytical. My dad, for example, knows nothing about baseball strategy. He knows he likes watching games because it is a diversion. If he thought about the analytical side of the game insead of the diversion… he wouldn’t like it as much.
It's a simple question, Doctor: would you eat the moon if it were made of ribs??
by Invalid User on Aug 18, 2010 6:07 PM CDT up reply actions
Aussie Rules Football
I understand this because I like watching Aussie Rules football (e.g. “footy”) now that WYCC’s second digital channel (Comcast 250) televises the game of the week on tape delay. I know very little about footy. I find it fun. And then I fall asleep.
If I cared about whether the manager had the right substitution patterns, or the relative percentage of whatever, I’d get a headache.
It's a simple question, Doctor: would you eat the moon if it were made of ribs??
by Invalid User on Aug 18, 2010 6:24 PM CDT up reply actions
But I'm guessing you don't post on an Aussie Rules website
I don’t expect somebody who is a casual baseball fan to know what wOBA means and to consider projections when aligning expectations for a team.
I do think it is fair to wonder why someone you cares so much about a game seems to want to ignore information that helps one understand it better.
Because it doesn't tell the whole story
by Not Bruce Froemming on Aug 18, 2010 6:34 PM CDT up reply actions
Usually its because they are a White Sox fan.
Doesn’t explain NBF though. :)
It's a simple question, Doctor: would you eat the moon if it were made of ribs??
by Invalid User on Aug 18, 2010 6:47 PM CDT up reply actions
cite the instance
anything…. any evidence at all…
follow me on twitter for fantasy sports analysis @http://twitter.com/DrewDinkmeyer or get the full analysis at www.fantistics.com
by DartmouthCubsFan on Aug 18, 2010 5:38 PM CDT up reply actions
Baseball Prospectus Projections
I remember saying we should keep track of them throughout the year, because BP had the Cubs at the same number of wins as the Royals, Pirates, and Nats (DCF, feel free to correct me if I got the teams wrong).
Anyway here’s the current W-Ls:
Cubs 50-71
Royals 50-69
Nats 51-68
Pirates 40-79
I'll go to my grave believing Armando Galarraga tossed the 21st perfect game in MLB history.
yeah i think the pirates were a bit lower
but the other clubs were right
i looked through that bp thread a few weeks back, it was staunch with unabashed optimism and disdain for bp, it was a hilarious read with the benefit of hindsight now
i remember SD Jazz Man making an arrogant comment about how ridiculous it was that SD was even close to the Cubs…. whoops
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by DartmouthCubsFan on Aug 18, 2010 5:34 PM CDT up reply actions
Fair enough
Completely ignoring projections is pretty dumb. They aren’t always right, but they are more accurate than not. At the least they give you a starting point. Maybe you think the projections underrate some players, then you make a case for the projections to be higher. Simply hoping that the projections are wrong is foolhardy.
I agree with you that expecting good things out of the 2011 at this point in time is ludicrous. I challenged NBF to make a prediction for 2011 but he declined. I actually can see a way that the Cubs get into range for contention: 78-83 wins (sign Cliff Lee, bounceback year from Z and Ramirez, continued progression for Castro, Colvin, Gorz, and Wells). But I think it is pretty unlikely that all of that happens. I put the odds the Cubs make the playoffs next year at 20:1.
i'd agree
anything is possible in baseball and there’s a chance we could contend next season, but its really really unlikely and would require A LOT of internal growth in our young players
could it happen? Sure
should we expect it to happen? No. that’s ridiculous.
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by DartmouthCubsFan on Aug 18, 2010 5:37 PM CDT up reply actions
Here's the thing
Doesn’t it make more sense to be realistic about the team now and be pleasantly surprised later, than be irrationally optimistic now and disappointed later? I don’t see why being pessimistic means I hate the Cubs.
that was kind of my whole mantra
all spring
if there’s reason for really high expectations, i’ll embrace them, but that’s just not the case so I’d rather temper my expectations and be pleasantly surprised
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by DartmouthCubsFan on Aug 18, 2010 5:42 PM CDT up reply actions
I can understand why a kid would have unrealistic expectations
But think the majority of people who post here are grown men.
I didn’t really read/post here much until this spring, but this was probably the first year since 2003 that I didn’t have high expectations for the Cubs. I thought it was 50/50 that the Cubs would be a fringe contender or absolutely suck. It turned out that they decided to absolutely suck. Because it was definitely possible in my mind going into the season I haven’t really been mad., I have only really had angst for two weeks this season. The opening week when it was apparent that the Cubs had holes and the weekend where the Cubs were spanked by the Cards after showing some signs of life against the Rockies/Phillies/Rangers/Dodgers.
I also don’t own season tickets. I can see why it would be much more difficult for a season ticket holder to let it go. But, I still have been to 6 games this year and have enjoyed myself each time.
That's about where I'm at
I thought this team had a lot of potential parallels to the 1973 team. I’ve been to a few games out of town this year, will be going to a few more, and would have gone to last night’s game via cheap StubHub tickets if I didn’t have to travel for work.
But I don’t have the emotional involvement in this team I had in the 2009 team, or the first seven weeks of the 2006 team. So my performance measurement for the team has been is there steady opportunity and improvement for the younger players who will be on the 2012 roster: Castro, Colvin, and Cashner.
It's a simple question, Doctor: would you eat the moon if it were made of ribs??
by Invalid User on Aug 18, 2010 6:13 PM CDT up reply actions
Early 2011 projections have the Cubs at about 75 wins in 2011 with the current roster
So how do we get the team to 85 wins?
Add Dunn (3.5 WAR right now, probably up to 4.5 by end of season) and CLee (6.5 WAR right now, probably 8 by end of season).
That is a total of 10 WAR if the season ended today, and probably somewhere around 12-13 WAR by season’s end.
Those two players alone put the Cubs at 85 wins, a bounce back year from ARam to even just 2 WAR, Castro’s at 2.5 WAR right now, I bet he’ll be in the 3-4 WAR range in 2011.
That gets the Cubs into the 85-87 win category
That’s called being in contention in 2011. The beauty of it all, is that you have filled key positions without sacrificing the farm, we have even more money coming off the books after 2011 so they’re is even more flexibility.
85 wins isnt contention
its “fake contention”, it means the goal is to be good enough to hopefully win a bad division. This is what the Cubs have been selling the fan-base for years and its amazing to me how many people have bought it hook, line, and sinker. Less than 5% of the playoff teams in the history of baseball (even since the wildcard) have gotten in with 85-87 wins
in addition you’re adding Lee’s WAR without subtracting out whomever he replaces. A pitcher on our staff projected for 2011 isn’t at 0 WAR. That’s misleading.
In addition I’m not sure where you’re getting the early projections, but how much regression from Soriano/Byrd is assumed in those?
Is this the best route to “fake” contend for next season, yes. But is it realistic to walk away with Dunn and Cliff Lee in a year where we enter with $103 million on the books BEFORE arb figures? That’s adding another $35-40 million in payroll from those two guys on top of what you’d figure is 10-15 million in arb numbers, that puts us over the payroll number for this season by a pretty decent margin. I’m not sure that is realistic
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by DartmouthCubsFan on Aug 19, 2010 8:08 AM CDT up reply actions
I got the 2011 projections from a more statistically leaning Cubs blog, PM me and I can send you the links
The projections are based on including the WAR of players that are likely to be here (that includes regression and excludes DLee, Lilly, Theriot, Fontenot) and filling out the rest of the roster with league average players. That puts the Cubs at 75 wins. Now the question is how to get to that magical 90 wins.
I’ve done the math, both CLee and Dunn can be had IF (a big if) payroll is maintained. Your $103million committed before arb raises is not adding in the 5million in savings from the trades this year. You’re also not accounting for the fact that the Cubs will trade Kosuke (potentially others as well) and hopefully save 4-5 million dollars. That’s another $10million in spending money. Your also not accounting for the likely non-tenders to the Koyie Hills and Jeff Bakers on the team that will be replaced with league minimum players like Barney and Castillo, that could amount to a couple million in additional savings. I’d say a net doubling of the salaries to the key arb eligible guys (Soto, Wells, Marshall, Marmol, etc) with Geo likely getting the largest raise is about right.
Obviously, Hendry needs to creatively structure the contracts to CLee and Dunn where their salaries are low enough in 2011 to keep the whole team salary in the $140-150million range. There is more money coming off the books after 2011, so the increased salary to Dunn/CLee begins in 2012.
Also, I don’t view a projected 85-87 wins as “fake” contention, 85-87 wins is the very definition of contention. There are standard deviations of 7-9 wins on that projection. The Cubs could win anywhere from 76 wins to 96 games. A few things go the right way (e.g., a 3-4 WAR season from ARam) and your at 90 wins, a few things go the wrong way (injuries to Dempster, etc) and the projection goes down from 85 wins. A case in point is that the Cubs this year were projected to win 84-86 games. Obviously, they are clearly on the lower end of the standard deviations.
It sounds like you want the Cubs to just accept the status quo for 2011 and go big in 2012. That’s just not going to happen and would be a huge mistake. Both Dunn and CLee fill needs (left handed power bat 1st baseman and legit #1 Ace) and leave flexibility because of the $40+ million coming off the books before 2012. By then, we’ll hopefully have some cheap production from the farm as well. I’m also on record with trying to trade for Greinke rather than signing CLee as an FA, which would be a less costly option.
Hendry’s going to have to do some work this off-season if he wants the Cubs to contend in 2011, but its not as impossible as you seem to believe……
interesting takes
yeah i’d love to see the projections work done, i’m always into that stuff.
I would say that your proposal sounds “close” but I dont think signing both Dunn and Lee is realistic and i’m not sure about the discrepancies in payroll accounting you’re noting.
I’ve gotten the $103 figure from Cot’s which has the $5 million in savings:
http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=tt7HjIernphaSrv4wMWdUYg&output=html
It also has no salary for any of the arb players included in it, which includes guys like Koyie Hill, Jeff Baker, etc. Non-tender candidates dont save money from that figure because there’s no figure accounted for them yet
The assumption on saving money by trading Fukudome is also a bit of a wild one in my opinion. I’ll believe it when i see it.
But right now the $103 figure comes from just:
Soriano
Zambrano
Ramirez
Fukudome
Dempster
Silva
Byrd
Samardzija
Grabow
that’s just 9 roster spots
add Dunn and C. Lee for lets say 35 million, and we’re at 138 million for 11 roster spots
this doesnt include arb figures for Soto, Marmol, Marshall, Gorz, Wells who are all going to be retained and command over 1 million in arb
so lets be conservative and say they average 1.5 million in arb, that’s another 7.5 million for 5 spots
we’re now at $145.5 million for 16 roster spots, 9 guys at the minimum pushes the budget to over $150 million
This year we were at $144 million
You’re not counting on JUST maintaining, you’re counting on RAISING the payroll. That seems unlikely to me
I don’t think contending is an impossibility, i think its EXTREMELY unlikely
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by DartmouthCubsFan on Aug 19, 2010 11:30 AM CDT up reply actions
I'm going to post a fan post in the near future with the projected salaries for 2011
to show how CLee and Dunn can be had without having to increase payroll. I’m not sure if it is appropriate to post links to different Cubs blogs here so I’ll just type out how to navigate there if you want to scroll through the data that went into the 75 win projection.
Those are available at www.anothercubsblog.net
Click on the archives link and navigate to the July 2010 archives and the June 2010 archives
Click on the link for “How can this team contend in 2011?” and on the link “Where we stand now”
thanks!
reading through now, i can already see how you’re coming up with the salary figures… SEVERE backloading. Ultimately that looks like a repeat of past mistakes to me
which has been one of my bigger concerns about trying to contend in 2011
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by DartmouthCubsFan on Aug 20, 2010 12:31 PM CDT up reply actions
Wait till you see the post I've written up
The only back loading I have is
ADunn: he’ll have to get $10mil in 2011 and $13mil for the 2 years after that.
CLee would need $16mil in 2011 and $24.5mil for the 4 years after that
Obviously, I’m assuming a 3 year deal for Dunn and a 5 year deal for CLee.
I hope to have my fan post up tomorrow. Its pretty solid. My payroll has Dunn, CLee, and still has Fukudome’s contract on the books. Total payroll for 2011 is at $142mil
also
I don’t see signing Dunn and CLee as a burden or hindering our ability to make moves for 2012 and beyond. Those would be 2 solid signings and we don’t really have the prospects blocking them, like we do in the OF. I guess you could argue that CLee would be blocking Archer, Cashner et al., but I don’t see those guys as TOR pitchers like CLee
If the Cubs could get to 85 projected wins I would consider that contention
I don’t see it happening, but if Hendry could get it done, I wouldn’t be unhappy.
depends on the cost right?
this has been at the root of my argument
There are ways to contend next year but most either: A) don’t fit within a payroll constraint that we had this year or B) Involve gutting the farm
follow me on twitter for fantasy sports analysis @http://twitter.com/DrewDinkmeyer or get the full analysis at www.fantistics.com
by DartmouthCubsFan on Aug 19, 2010 12:54 PM CDT up reply actions
85 wins is at best borderline contention
It is a high end estimate for the Cubs in 2011 and probably not good enough to get into the playoffs.
I always turn to the sports section first. The sports page records people's accomplishments; the front page has nothing but man's failures.
~Earl Warren
by lookingdeadred on Aug 20, 2010 7:46 AM CDT up reply actions
Not 85 actual wins but 85 projected wins
It’s fairly difficult to get a projection at or over 90 wins. Only 2 or 3 teams a year usually are projected over 90 wins. In the NL (no Yankees or Red Sox) a projection between 85-90 wins puts you right in the thick of things.
You are stretching
I always turn to the sports section first. The sports page records people's accomplishments; the front page has nothing but man's failures.
~Earl Warren
by lookingdeadred on Aug 22, 2010 10:15 AM CDT up reply actions
You seem to have changed your tune
Before you criticized people who had the same high expectations you do now, and blamed 2003 for this reversal.
Not true
I don’t blame them for having high expectations. Having high expectations is necessary for this franchise.
There’s a difference between having high expectations and booing someone everytime they strike out.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Aug 18, 2010 5:34 PM CDT up reply actions
I agree on the booing
Nothing drives me more crazy about Cubs fans. I don’t see why you have to be angry to be a pessimist. I am very pessimistic about the Cubs future right now, but I am not angry about it. It just is.
agreed as well
i hate boo-ing. if there’s a consistent lack of effort over a long period of time, maybe MAYBE i’d boo
i’d rather be the cheery supportive fan out-loud, while quietly more realistic on the inside. i believe it can’t hurt to create an environment the players feel comfortable in
follow me on twitter for fantasy sports analysis @http://twitter.com/DrewDinkmeyer or get the full analysis at www.fantistics.com
by DartmouthCubsFan on Aug 18, 2010 5:39 PM CDT up reply actions
Maybe that's the progress we can look forward too
If Sandberg (who everyone wants) gets hired, blame has to be placed somewhere else.
I don't want Sandberg
And I think that the fans will turn on him within the first 2-3 months if the team fails.
You know,
it’s not really that I disagree with you, Not Bruce. It’s just that I don’t think that the current management team is on the same page with you. Sorry.
But as an aside, I do give you a great deal of credit for bringing up Carlos Lee. I had a chance to sit on him for a few games recently watching him work at first base, and he’s not awful. Personally, I think the Cubs will just try to waive Zambrano this off-season, but if you’re looking for an intriguing trade scenario, that certainly is one.
by Damen Jackson on Aug 18, 2010 5:41 PM CDT up reply actions
Carlos Lee loves his ranch in Texas
I remember Brenley talking about that on one of the broadcasts. He’s a rancher, loves Houston, never wants to leave. And I suspect he has 10-5 by now.
It's a simple question, Doctor: would you eat the moon if it were made of ribs??
by Invalid User on Aug 18, 2010 5:43 PM CDT up reply actions
not 10-5
but does have a full no-trade
follow me on twitter for fantasy sports analysis @http://twitter.com/DrewDinkmeyer or get the full analysis at www.fantistics.com
by DartmouthCubsFan on Aug 18, 2010 5:45 PM CDT up reply actions
It's a Wonderful Life
Youth is wasted on the wrong people!
"They come to see me strike out, hit a home run, or run into a fence. I try to accommodate them at least one way every game." - Gorman Thomas
by RiskyBusiness on Aug 18, 2010 4:49 PM CDT up reply actions
Don't care about the prospects that much
If one of them turns out to be as good as Fontenot, I’d be thrilled. I’m just happy that they’re saving $3M, because paying Lee $3M to play out the string with this team would have been silly.
There is no reason I can’t eat three racks of BBQ ribs tonight for dinner. Doesn’t mean it’s the prudent thing to do….
The prudent thing to do is go hard after Dunn, trade Z and Dome for whatever you can get, wait for Ramirez’ option year to end, and play the kids at RF, SS, 2B, C, the #3-#5 starters, and hopefully CF by the end of the season. And then aim for 2012.
It's a simple question, Doctor: would you eat the moon if it were made of ribs??
by Invalid User on Aug 18, 2010 5:07 PM CDT up reply actions
That also doesn't mean
a run in 2011 isn’t possible, however. (And I could use three racks right about now myself.)
by Not Bruce Froemming on Aug 18, 2010 5:28 PM CDT up reply actions
Too much has to go exactly perfectly
If they sign Dunn, and trade Z and Dome, you’re probably looking at this:
Lineup: Colvin, Castro, Byrd, Dunn, Ramirez, Soriano, Soto, DeWitt/Barney
Starters: Demp, Wells, Gorz, ??? (probably a 1-year FA), Shark
Pen: Marmol, Marshall, Cashner, and a pile of goo.
Bench: Castillo, Barney/DeWitt, Fuld, Hoff/LaHair/Snyder, random cannon fodder utility infielder.
Tough to believe that team can be 20 games better than this year’s team.
It's a simple question, Doctor: would you eat the moon if it were made of ribs??
by Invalid User on Aug 18, 2010 5:40 PM CDT up reply actions
As soon as we see what the roster looks like next year,
we can make a better judgment.
I’m always going to maintain Cubs fans have gone from eternal optimism to eternal pessimism.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Aug 18, 2010 5:56 PM CDT up reply actions
I'm not pessimistic at all
I just think Castro, Colvin, Jackson, and Cashner are going to be fso ar better players in 2012 than 2011 that I don’t want to see a bunch of multi-year contracts other than Dunn or maybe Crawford spent on trying to take a flier on 2011. One year deals in 2011 are fine (Reggie Sanders had a nice career that way), but Hendry doesn’t seem to know how to give those out.
It's a simple question, Doctor: would you eat the moon if it were made of ribs??
by Invalid User on Aug 18, 2010 6:02 PM CDT up reply actions
I know people want next year to be a rebuilding year of sorts
But I just can’t see how Hendry keeps his job unless the team is a playoff contender, which is what he’ll be trying to build, future be damned.
that's my biggest fear
and the fact that Cubs fans take the “F REALITY, I DEMAND CONTENTION” route only makes that likelihood stronger as the pressure from the fanbase increases the perceived pressure on his job
follow me on twitter for fantasy sports analysis @http://twitter.com/DrewDinkmeyer or get the full analysis at www.fantistics.com
by DartmouthCubsFan on Aug 18, 2010 6:07 PM CDT up reply actions
I'll be shocked
If the team next year can be labeled a rebuilding project. If Hendry thinks 3-4 can improve this team, then he’s gonna try and make a big splash.
In this market
you can nurture youth AND acquire free agents.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Aug 18, 2010 6:13 PM CDT up reply actions
If those free agents fit your team
Which is no guarantee. And while we don’t know what the roster is going to be like next year, it’s seems obvious that some big moves will need to be made if the team plans on contending. You have to admit, what we’re seeing on a daily is a pretty miserable team.
or, by golly, he'll be sitting in the LF bleachers over at The Cell!
I'll go to my grave believing Armando Galarraga tossed the 21st perfect game in MLB history.
Lee wasn't going to have any effect on the 2011 Cubs
No way they resign a 35 year old 1B with declining skills and a bad back. 3 young pitchers + salary relief > nada.
A brief scouting report on the three guys
I’m a Braves fan and write for Talking Chop. Here goes a quick summary…I can post a full one sometime if you’d like.
Robinson Lopez is the top player in the deal. He’s a very young international prospect and could become a #2 pitcher one day. That one day is a long ways away though, and I’m guessing it would be at least 2013 before he even sniffs the Majors. He’s very raw.
Ty’Relle Harris is a solid, middle-relief prospect and could see the Majors by 2011. Reports are that he throws hard, and he’s been great in Mississippi.
Jeffery Lorick is also very raw, and might be a middle-relief guy in the upcoming years. Not much is known about him.
"Based on stereotypes that are totally untrue and I do not agree with, you would maybe-not be a very good driver..."
"Oh man am I a woman?!"
by Scott Coleman on Aug 18, 2010 4:38 PM CDT reply actions 4 recs
would LOVE to hear more
thanks for your insights
follow me on twitter for fantasy sports analysis @http://twitter.com/DrewDinkmeyer or get the full analysis at www.fantistics.com
by DartmouthCubsFan on Aug 18, 2010 4:39 PM CDT up reply actions
We have two guys on TC that are Minor League experts. I’ll shoot them an e-mail and see if they’d do a full write-up for you guys. I know some about Lopez and Harris, but nothing about Lorick.
FYI…Robinson Lopez was a top-15 prospect on Talking Chop’s prospect list, Ty’Relle was probably in the 20-30 range and Lorick was no-where near the list.
"Based on stereotypes that are totally untrue and I do not agree with, you would maybe-not be a very good driver..."
"Oh man am I a woman?!"
by Scott Coleman on Aug 18, 2010 4:44 PM CDT up reply actions 4 recs
thanks a lot
and best of luck to the Braves the rest of the season, hope DLee is a big contributor
follow me on twitter for fantasy sports analysis @http://twitter.com/DrewDinkmeyer or get the full analysis at www.fantistics.com
by DartmouthCubsFan on Aug 18, 2010 4:46 PM CDT up reply actions
'Preciate ya stopping by
Thanks for the quick rundown…
"Every player should be accorded the privilege of at least one season with the Chicago Cubs. That's baseball as it should be played - in God's own sunshine. And that's really living." ~Alvin Dark
by DamonBerryhillsMitt on Aug 18, 2010 4:39 PM CDT up reply actions
Thanks
Best of luck to the Braves in the remainder of the season
A LO PROFUNDOOO...NOO, NO, NO, NO, NO, NOO...DIGALE QUE NO A ESA PELOTA!!!
GANAN LOS CACHORROS DE CHICAGO!!
by Azul Cachorro on Aug 18, 2010 4:41 PM CDT up reply actions
thanks for the info
good luck to the bravos!
2011 can't get here soon enough.
by Castro Por Presidente on Aug 18, 2010 5:11 PM CDT up reply actions
And his first game as a Brave....
Lee is expected to join the Braves Friday in Chicago when they open 3-game series vs Cubs. He’ll wear No. 27
Nobody cares about your fantasy baseball team
Good idea
I wouldn’t fly Lee to ATL for 1 game to have him turn around and fly back to Chicago. That would take out his back right there.
"They come to see me strike out, hit a home run, or run into a fence. I try to accommodate them at least one way every game." - Gorman Thomas
by RiskyBusiness on Aug 18, 2010 4:57 PM CDT up reply actions
Question:
Will he get a standing O from the Cubs fans?
"Based on stereotypes that are totally untrue and I do not agree with, you would maybe-not be a very good driver..."
"Oh man am I a woman?!"
by Scott Coleman on Aug 18, 2010 4:59 PM CDT up reply actions
I certainly hope so
He’s one who deserves it.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Aug 18, 2010 4:59 PM CDT up reply actions
Agreed
Cubs fans will giving the Standing O for his first AB. Bet it won’t be 3rd in the ATL line-up.
"They come to see me strike out, hit a home run, or run into a fence. I try to accommodate them at least one way every game." - Gorman Thomas
by RiskyBusiness on Aug 18, 2010 5:01 PM CDT up reply actions
absolutely
i’d be ashamed if that wasn’t the case
follow me on twitter for fantasy sports analysis @http://twitter.com/DrewDinkmeyer or get the full analysis at www.fantistics.com
by DartmouthCubsFan on Aug 18, 2010 5:00 PM CDT up reply actions
I really think without question he will
And deservedly so
Harry Caray: Marshall is going back to LA to get cocaine for his injured foot.
Steve Stone: Harry, that’s Novocaine.
by Julio Zuleta's Voodoo on Aug 18, 2010 5:02 PM CDT up reply actions
Personally, it's gunna sting a little to see that
In a nostalgic way. Derrek Lee has basically been the face of the Cubs (at least for me) since I started watching baseball. I don’t remember anyone else playing 1B there. But hey, I’ll be glad to see him go to a contending team.
A LO PROFUNDOOO...NOO, NO, NO, NO, NO, NOO...DIGALE QUE NO A ESA PELOTA!!!
GANAN LOS CACHORROS DE CHICAGO!!
by Azul Cachorro on Aug 18, 2010 5:00 PM CDT up reply actions
Agreed.
Glad he’s on a contending team, but it stings.
If anyone deserves a standing o, it’s DLee. He’s been nothing but a class act for his entire tenure here in Chicago.
by Tangled Up In Blue on Aug 18, 2010 5:25 PM CDT up reply actions
Yeah!
Finally, DLee did something positive for the Cubs this season! Lopez sounds like he has a chance to be something.too. That was more than I was expecting in return for him. I was just hoping for salary relief.
From Lee’s persepctive, it was the right move. He was going to do himself no favors by staying on the Cubs if he was really interested in playing in the MLB next year. If he can have 6 good weeks plus a good post season, he might get a decent sized contract next year. Without that, he might have been looking at what Dye got this last off-season.
Maybe some of the criticism that got sent Lee’s way over the past 4-5 weeks had an impact on him.
by jerry morales rules on Aug 19, 2010 5:04 AM CDT reply actions
Getting three prospects for DLee makes a lot more sense than re-signing him.
Good move.
I always turn to the sports section first. The sports page records people's accomplishments; the front page has nothing but man's failures.
~Earl Warren
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- Keeping good company: Albert Pujols becomes fourth-youngest player to hit 450 home runs
