Derrek Lee Traded To Braves. Oh, Yes: Cubs Lose Again
The Cubs lost to the Padres 5-1 on Wednesday, but that result -- their third straight loss to San Diego -- isn't what you want to talk about.
The trade of Derrek Lee to the Braves is topic 1 this afternoon. Three minor league pitchers came to the Cubs in this deal (Robinson Lopez, Tyrelle Harris and Jeffrey Lorick), and I know there are minor league experts on this site who know more about these three than I do. One of them (Lopez) is very young; he won't turn 20 until next March.
Derrek Lee has been among the most popular of Cubs through his nearly seven-year tenure on the North Side. His production has ranged from good to excellent, except for his year lost to a wrist injury in 2006, and this season, where he's hit well in streaks but in general has had a down year leading some to speculate that he might be finished. He's going to a team in playoff contention (moving from last place to first), so perhaps that will energize him for one more run at a respectable year as he enters free agency. Had the Cubs been a better team in 2005, when he won the batting title and hit 50 doubles, he might have won the MVP; instead he finished third behind Albert Pujols and Andruw Jones.
I salute D-Lee for his classy demeanor on and off the field. Some here complain that he wasn't demonstrative enough on the field and though he was seen as a team leader, many wanted him to "show it" more, though I'm not quite sure how you do that. He was a productive hitter as a Cub. He finishes his Cub career with a .298/.378/.524 triple-slash line, 1024 hits, and 179 home runs, which ranks 11th on the all-time team list. The .524 SLG is fourth among all Cubs with at least 1500 PA with the team; only Hack Wilson, Sammy Sosa and Aramis Ramirez ranked ahead of him.
Good luck to you, D-Lee, and the team did well here. We don't know if the pitching prospects the Cubs got in this deal are better than they might have received from the Angels in the trade Lee rejected a month ago, but we do know that had Lee finished the season in a Cubs uniform, they would have received nothing at all, because there's no way they would have offered him arbitration.
It will be strange to see him in an Atlanta uniform in only two days. Micah Hoffpauir has again been recalled to fill Lee's spot on the roster, as Hoff did last week in San Francisco. I don't expect Hoffpauir to be in a Cubs uniform after October 3, 2010.
There's not much to be said about the game today. It wouldn't be a Cubs/Padres series without at least one Adrian Gonzalez home run, and he hit one this afternoon; six rookie Cubs pitchers didn't do very much to keep the Padres down. The best outing of the day belonged to Thomas Diamond, who threw two nice innings of middle relief, striking out a pair and giving up only a single; Everth Cabrera, who singled, tried to stretch it into a double when Alfonso Soriano was slow getting to the ball, but Sori threw him out.
What more is there to say? There was more of the 2010-traditional failure to drive in runners in scoring position and failure to keep the game close. The game did not add to the one-run loss total.
Attendance was lower than Tuesday night at 33,267 despite a gloriously sunny afternoon. Only 1,500 bleacher tickets (out of a capacity of 5,100) were sold, and I wound up spending half the game in Tom Ricketts' suite at his invitation (after he spent the first two innings sitting with us in left field, something he appeared to really enjoy).
Most of the conversation was about things going on this season, and there aren't a lot of details I can share at this time; this was a much more casual conversation than the longer-form interview I did with him and Crane Kenney last spring. Ricketts does share our disappointment at the way this season is going and I know he is committed, as he said earlier this year, to building an organization from the ground up. The Cubs saved $1.7 million in the Lee deal (sending that much, half of Lee's remaining salary, to the Braves). It may not be much, but it's something. I also laid groundwork for another longer talk with him after the season is over, something that I'll post here when I do it. (And thanks for the cookies & brownies, Tom.)
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For Old Time's Sake:

"No enemy is more dangerous, than the enemy that has nothing to lose." Mark Grace
by GateCity, VA Cubs Fan on Aug 18, 2010 5:34 PM CDT reply actions 3 recs
I was looking for that photo to post.
Thanks for finding it.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
I've always preferred this variant:
"One of the things I like about baseball is that between innings you can go to the restroom.'' ~Manny Acta.
Did you Photoshop that or is that already on the Braves website?
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
That was posted almost immediately when the trade was announced.
I just figured they have “generic Atlanta uniform and cap” handy, and Photoshop Lee’s head into the picture?
by The Deputy Mayor of Rush Street on Aug 18, 2010 9:55 PM CDT up reply actions
That hat is sitting pretty high up on his head...
…with an almost McGriffesque look to it. ;-)

Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
The key difference ...
is that McGriff rejected and then later accepted a trade to the same team, whereas Lee rejected the Angels but was cool with Atlanta (as we all know). That, to me, shows that Lee’s decisions had more to do with lack of confidence in the Angels’ chances.
That, and the Cubs have played so poorly in August.
Right.
McGriff truly did not want to leave Tampa, his home, and the reason he signed with the Rays in the first place. I can’t blame him for that, I suppose, but his sour attitude when he eventually did become a Cub turned a lot of fans against him.
D-Lee’s decision, viewed with what we know then and now, does make sense.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
It's interesting, though ...
when does acceptable laid-back/quiet (Lee) go to sour and disinterested (McGriff)? I’m not questioning you, Al. II was in college in 2001-02, so my level of Cubs insanity was substantially lower, and I don’t enough about the Crime Dog’s time here.
But what did McGriff do that put him in the (ahem) dog house that Lee avoided?
Well...
… the three-week “will he or won’t he” dance kind of soured people on him. He was good, but not great, and the 2002 team sucked.
Then Bruce Kimm kept playing him in September for the sole purpose of getting him to 30 HR and 100 RBI, instead of playing Hee Seop Choi. As soon as McGriff got there he was benched for the rest of the season.
And you think we have it bad now.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
I'm at the point where I'm not even sad after a loss.
So long Derrek. He did alot for this organization since 2004 and was always one of my favorites. Hopefully he can have a solid run with the braves
by Dcr18 on Aug 18, 2010 5:37 PM CDT via mobile reply actions
One of my favorites too. Always classy.
I hate seeing my favorite players get old or struggle…. or both. I the DLee has more streaks in him and more years in him. As was said on WGN after the game, he’s only got 6 weeks with the Braves (without playoffs).
Good luck DLee to you and your family.
This is only the beginning....Lou Pinella end of '07 season and Chicago Transit Authority (the band when they were really good).
Not sad after a loss
I reached that point in 1986, but congrats on getting there yourself. It will save you a lot of unnecessary stress.
"They found a delivery in my flaw." - Dan Quisenberry
Just curious...
Why now, why ATL—but not the Angels in July? Maybe the stretch of awful play beat him down?
Anyway, I wish him the best.
He may have felt this was a shot to get into the playoffs.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
Well, they kind of were when the deal was first proposed to Lee.
But they fell out of it quickly.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
I believe it was four.
But by the time he got around to rejecting the deal, they had lost four or five in a row.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
Who is that guy from the Royals that you made a post about before?
Is there any deal that can get him you think?
by alabamacubbie on Aug 18, 2010 8:43 PM CDT up reply actions
Kila?
Maybe. That would have to be an offseason deal, probably involving young pitching. I’d still consider it.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
I believe it was Kila
He has some pretty good numbers. They’re better than Hoffpauir’s anyways.
by alabamacubbie on Aug 18, 2010 10:46 PM CDT up reply actions
maybe the three
guys we just got from Atlanta?
I Love Larry - Brick are you looking at random things around the room and saying that you love them - I Love Larry
Currently 34,839 on the Season Ticket Wait List - Expected age of being #0: 119
by hansman1982 on Aug 19, 2010 10:29 AM CDT up reply actions
possibly
but would be a great way to turn Lee into a promising young 1b…not suggesting that is what JH & Co. are doing but it is what I would try to do.
I Love Larry - Brick are you looking at random things around the room and saying that you love them - I Love Larry
Currently 34,839 on the Season Ticket Wait List - Expected age of being #0: 119
by hansman1982 on Aug 19, 2010 12:53 PM CDT up reply actions
Ricketts
I wound up spending half the game in Tom Ricketts’ suite at his invitation
Name dropper. :) Obviously, he was just trying to get on your good side as you are now an influential member of the media.
In all seriousness, without violating any confidentiality, how was Ricketts demeanor? How is he handling the tumble of this team?
I think I speak for everyone here when I say, "Wait, what the hell are you talking about?"
I hope Al will remember all us little people.
(This story was produced by BCPDnewservice. Our motto: If you don’t like this story then suck it!)
by BrewCrew'sPrinceofDarkness on Aug 18, 2010 5:46 PM CDT up reply actions
I'm not going anywhere.
Nice try, though. :-)
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
The rumor is Ricketts is offering to give you Muskats job.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Aug 18, 2010 5:48 PM CDT up reply actions
He bought the Trib, too?
WOW that dude is RICH!
(This story was produced by BCPDnewservice. Our motto: If you don’t like this story then suck it!)
by BrewCrew'sPrinceofDarkness on Aug 18, 2010 5:49 PM CDT up reply actions
he didnt offer to give us Muskat i hope
Chronologically inept since 2060
"I could be writing this crap!" -- Crow T. Robot
I'd have a hard time telling the difference.
WWOZ.org - New Orleans Jazz and Heritage Station
by Gibbon Jockey on Aug 18, 2010 5:53 PM CDT up reply actions
Al would be the feminine looking one, that's how I tell them apart now.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Aug 18, 2010 5:55 PM CDT up reply actions 4 recs
That helps. ;)
WWOZ.org - New Orleans Jazz and Heritage Station
by Gibbon Jockey on Aug 18, 2010 5:56 PM CDT up reply actions
no, I don't want to.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Aug 18, 2010 5:58 PM CDT up reply actions
Hmmm.
I’m not sure I like that comment, then.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
you guys are funny
"Well-behaved women seldom make History"---Laurel Thatcher Ulrich
by cooliogirl47 on Aug 18, 2010 6:10 PM CDT up reply actions
You think people
making shit of Al is funny?
A lovely story:
One day, long, long ago, there lived a woman who didn't whine, nag or bitch. That would be me....
But that was a long time ago and it was just that one day.
The end
calm down sue, sheesh put the cuckoo back in the clock and laugh every once in awhile
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Aug 18, 2010 6:20 PM CDT up reply actions
I wasn't all that offended.
Just didn’t quite hit the right way, SWL. Sometimes, as you know… you cross the line.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
I just don't find
some of your comments funny. If it wasn’t meant as an insult then I apologize.
A lovely story:
One day, long, long ago, there lived a woman who didn't whine, nag or bitch. That would be me....
But that was a long time ago and it was just that one day.
The end
NOOOOO I thought Al and the others were fooling around....sorry Al
"Well-behaved women seldom make History"---Laurel Thatcher Ulrich
by cooliogirl47 on Aug 18, 2010 6:23 PM CDT up reply actions
why so serious?
2011 can't get here soon enough.
by Castro Por Presidente on Aug 18, 2010 6:29 PM CDT up reply actions
Just tired of the
insults directed at Al by some on this site.
A lovely story:
One day, long, long ago, there lived a woman who didn't whine, nag or bitch. That would be me....
But that was a long time ago and it was just that one day.
The end
You guys are funny ^-^
"A dream you dream alone is only a dream. A dream you dream together is reality." John Lennon
You don't get to tell me
what to do.
A lovely story:
One day, long, long ago, there lived a woman who didn't whine, nag or bitch. That would be me....
But that was a long time ago and it was just that one day.
The end
That's right
You’re not her real dad.
WWOZ.org - New Orleans Jazz and Heritage Station
by Gibbon Jockey on Aug 18, 2010 9:47 PM CDT up reply actions
My real dad
passed away so thanks for reminding me.
A lovely story:
One day, long, long ago, there lived a woman who didn't whine, nag or bitch. That would be me....
But that was a long time ago and it was just that one day.
The end
-Gives Sue and Gibbon Jockey a hug-
Come on gang, we gotta stick together for the long haul. Lee maybe gone, but we still got everyone on the BCB! 8^)
"A dream you dream alone is only a dream. A dream you dream together is reality." John Lennon
The tightest families are the ones that fight on occasion.
WWOZ.org - New Orleans Jazz and Heritage Station
by Gibbon Jockey on Aug 18, 2010 11:51 PM CDT up reply actions
Sorry to hear that.
Hope you’re all right, no matter how long ago it happened.
News flash! The Minnesota Vikings have moved their practice facility to Waffle House!
I didn't believe it last August, but it turns out that love survives.
Mount Washington conquered July 5, 2010! State high point count: 3/50
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Aug 18, 2010 10:11 PM CDT up reply actions
Welcome to the club then
WWOZ.org - New Orleans Jazz and Heritage Station
by Gibbon Jockey on Aug 18, 2010 11:20 PM CDT up reply actions
You guys are silly
"A dream you dream alone is only a dream. A dream you dream together is reality." John Lennon
thats not nice to call people names
you no good son of a biscuit
i keed i keed
Chronologically inept since 2060
"I could be writing this crap!" -- Crow T. Robot
My parents were croissants not biscuits
"A dream you dream alone is only a dream. A dream you dream together is reality." John Lennon
sorry, can you ever forgive me?
Chronologically inept since 2060
"I could be writing this crap!" -- Crow T. Robot
No..
You don’t understand what my family has to go through being called biscuits. My family got torn apart that way.
"A dream you dream alone is only a dream. A dream you dream together is reality." John Lennon
but i am sure that they make a lot of bread at work
Chronologically inept since 2060
"I could be writing this crap!" -- Crow T. Robot
Yes, a plethora of bread.
"A dream you dream alone is only a dream. A dream you dream together is reality." John Lennon
dont spread rumors
and put me in a jam
Chronologically inept since 2060
"I could be writing this crap!" -- Crow T. Robot
I only rub butter on my body..
on Mondays.
"A dream you dream alone is only a dream. A dream you dream together is reality." John Lennon
When do you apply the peanut butter and jelly?
News flash! The Minnesota Vikings have moved their practice facility to Waffle House!
I didn't believe it last August, but it turns out that love survives.
Mount Washington conquered July 5, 2010! State high point count: 3/50
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Aug 18, 2010 10:10 PM CDT up reply actions
its peanut butter jelly time
Chronologically inept since 2060
"I could be writing this crap!" -- Crow T. Robot
Penut butter makes me violently ill, but I like the jelly.
If the Cubs still have a chance, no matter how small, it’s still Go Cubs, damn the math and pass the KoolAid.
well then for you it is only
jelly time – NO PEANUT BUTTER FOR YOU!
I Love Larry - Brick are you looking at random things around the room and saying that you love them - I Love Larry
Currently 34,839 on the Season Ticket Wait List - Expected age of being #0: 119
by hansman1982 on Aug 19, 2010 10:30 AM CDT up reply actions
In that case,
Who made the peanut butter?
News flash! The Minnesota Vikings have moved their practice facility to Waffle House!
I didn't believe it last August, but it turns out that love survives.
Mount Washington conquered July 5, 2010! State high point count: 3/50
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Aug 18, 2010 10:07 PM CDT up reply actions
LOL!
News flash! The Minnesota Vikings have moved their practice facility to Waffle House!
I didn't believe it last August, but it turns out that love survives.
Mount Washington conquered July 5, 2010! State high point count: 3/50
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Aug 18, 2010 10:03 PM CDT up reply actions
Lord, you've finally completely regressed to a toddler
I’m surprised you didn’t just say I wasnt the boss of you
by HuskerCorner on Aug 19, 2010 9:48 AM CDT up reply actions
Seriously just stop.
If you don’t like my comments just ignore them and I will do the same to you.
A lovely story:
One day, long, long ago, there lived a woman who didn't whine, nag or bitch. That would be me....
But that was a long time ago and it was just that one day.
The end
Come on, Sue,
It’s a joke. Not meant to be taken seriously. And trust me, you would know full well if SWL was being serious there.
SWL is one of, if not, the biggest jokester on BCB. I’ve seen him make fun of numerous posters (including me) well after most people I know would have stopped.
News flash! The Minnesota Vikings have moved their practice facility to Waffle House!
I didn't believe it last August, but it turns out that love survives.
Mount Washington conquered July 5, 2010! State high point count: 3/50
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Aug 18, 2010 9:18 PM CDT up reply actions
While this is true...
… I’ve had to email SWL a handful of times telling him he crossed the line.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
Like I said,
I’ve seen him make fun of numerous posters (including me) well after most people I know would have stopped.
He sometimes does indeed go over the line with the joke department. However, the one above was not as bad as some of the things I’ve seen him say.
Just my $0.02
News flash! The Minnesota Vikings have moved their practice facility to Waffle House!
I didn't believe it last August, but it turns out that love survives.
Mount Washington conquered July 5, 2010! State high point count: 3/50
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Aug 18, 2010 9:20 PM CDT up reply actions
Oh I believe it, trust me.
News flash! The Minnesota Vikings have moved their practice facility to Waffle House!
I didn't believe it last August, but it turns out that love survives.
Mount Washington conquered July 5, 2010! State high point count: 3/50
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Aug 18, 2010 9:33 PM CDT up reply actions
somewhere someone is blaming Hendry for it
Chronologically inept since 2060
"I could be writing this crap!" -- Crow T. Robot
Actually I don't
know any more when he is joking. If you don’t mind him making fun of you then that’s on you.
A lovely story:
One day, long, long ago, there lived a woman who didn't whine, nag or bitch. That would be me....
But that was a long time ago and it was just that one day.
The end
I guess with him,
You have to understand his joke to “get” it.
And believe me, when he pokes fun at me, I do have trouble “getting” his jokes nearly all the time.
News flash! The Minnesota Vikings have moved their practice facility to Waffle House!
I didn't believe it last August, but it turns out that love survives.
Mount Washington conquered July 5, 2010! State high point count: 3/50
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Aug 18, 2010 9:34 PM CDT up reply actions
Rec'd.
Because you had me literally laughing out loud.
News flash! The Minnesota Vikings have moved their practice facility to Waffle House!
I didn't believe it last August, but it turns out that love survives.
Mount Washington conquered July 5, 2010! State high point count: 3/50
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Aug 18, 2010 7:17 PM CDT up reply actions
they ought to have a shorthand way of saying that...
"Wait, are you saying I'm a sunshine-pumping, koolaid-drinking, Soriano-loving, rainbow-rising, unicorn-riding, double-clutching, Sweet Lou-backing, Hendry-supporting, hey hey whaddya saying, Cubs are going all the waying, glass is overflowing, Rothschild is all-knowing, Cubs fan? - ballhawk
but how would you type it...
lol just doesnt make sense
I Love Larry - Brick are you looking at random things around the room and saying that you love them - I Love Larry
Currently 34,839 on the Season Ticket Wait List - Expected age of being #0: 119
by hansman1982 on Aug 19, 2010 12:57 PM CDT up reply actions
I can tell you...
…. he’s very, VERY disappointed in how this season turned out, as frustrated as the rest of us are as a fan of the team. He wants to win as badly as all of us do, and I believe he will commit the franchise to doing so.
If you or anyone else here met him (and some here have) you would find him to be a genuinely nice person with whom you can have a long, enjoyable and informed conversation about the Cubs.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
Ummmm
a long, enjoyable and informed conversation about the Cubs.
I don’t think that is possible this season.
(This story was produced by BCPDnewservice. Our motto: If you don’t like this story then suck it!)
by BrewCrew'sPrinceofDarkness on Aug 18, 2010 5:49 PM CDT up reply actions
Sure, you can have a good conversation about a bad team.
Why not? We do it all the time here.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
I have yet to see a conversation on this site about the Cub (or any other topic really)
that is long, enjoyable, and informed.
I have had long, enjoyable and uninformed conversations (ERIC HANNA).
I have had long, unenjoyable, and informed conversations (Sabermetrics).
And I have had short, enjoyable and informed conversations (Any TJ posts).
But never all three at the same time.
:)
(This story was produced by BCPDnewservice. Our motto: If you don’t like this story then suck it!)
by BrewCrew'sPrinceofDarkness on Aug 18, 2010 5:56 PM CDT up reply actions
Interesting dichotomy of posts.
You mean you’re not enjoying this one?
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
TWSS
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Aug 18, 2010 6:00 PM CDT up reply actions
OH SNAP!!!
WWOZ.org - New Orleans Jazz and Heritage Station
by Gibbon Jockey on Aug 18, 2010 6:00 PM CDT up reply actions
TJ's post are aways short
One part Noun = Lou
One part Verb = is
finish with AMAZING!!!
(This story was produced by BCPDnewservice. Our motto: If you don’t like this story then suck it!)
by BrewCrew'sPrinceofDarkness on Aug 18, 2010 6:01 PM CDT up reply actions
You forgot to add JH and TR into your "one part Noun"
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
+ 1000000000
Blue mountains high .. Blue valleys low
I don't know which way we shall go ..
One summer dream .. one summer dream ..
coda
ELO, 1975
Hmmm
Did you get that ticket thing all hashed out? Seriously, that’s very cool that he invited you up there. I hope you enjoyed yourself. Although I don’t agree with you on a lot of things, perhaps most on the near-term direction of the franchise; I recognize as a season ticket holder, you have much more invested in the team on a year-to-year basis than I do. It’s much more difficult for you to write off 2011 than it is me. I am glad Ricketts is taking the time to gauge the temperature of a very important constituency (his season ticket holders).
Ricketts should throw a BCB party in his suite
"Well-behaved women seldom make History"---Laurel Thatcher Ulrich
by cooliogirl47 on Aug 18, 2010 6:13 PM CDT up reply actions
I'll bring the soup.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Aug 18, 2010 6:15 PM CDT up reply actions
I'll bring the drinks.
Be sure yo place your orders before I head out!
News flash! The Minnesota Vikings have moved their practice facility to Waffle House!
I didn't believe it last August, but it turns out that love survives.
Mount Washington conquered July 5, 2010! State high point count: 3/50
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Aug 18, 2010 7:31 PM CDT up reply actions
Be sure to place your orders*
News flash! The Minnesota Vikings have moved their practice facility to Waffle House!
I didn't believe it last August, but it turns out that love survives.
Mount Washington conquered July 5, 2010! State high point count: 3/50
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Aug 18, 2010 7:32 PM CDT up reply actions
I was just joking Al
I really didn’t want to talk about it. I seriously hope you enjoyed yourself. That definitely is a neat opportunity.
LOL
I did talk about it. Yes, it was fun up there, a different view of the game. Some guy sat in our seats in the bleachers for a while, then left.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
I didn't, but...
… he volunteered that they are likely to not go up. I may ask more specifically later on.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
Well I should hope so
I think they should cut ticket prices the quiet way (reclassify games). I love the Cubs, but right now there is no point in buying tickets in Feb next year, when I know tickets will be available for cheaper later on. I think the Cubs finally overpriced tickets this past year.
I think they should cut ticket prices the quiet way (reclassify games).
Agreed.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
It makes too much sense not to do
Going to Wrigley for $40 is a reasonable proposition even if the team isn’t great. $58 for a weeknight game against the A’s? Not worth it.
Right.
They should look at the Mets pricing. They have five levels to the Cubs’ four — the highest level is only four games (Opening Day plus Yankees). The Cubs would have probably seven games there — OD, Sox, and one midsummer Cardinal series. That’s it.
Maybe three others in 2011 with the Yankees coming to town. But not 26 dates like this year.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
I happen to know.
The July 17 game vs. Philadelphia was Platinum this year, and was the July 18 game (Sunday night when I sat with you) also platinum pricing?
News flash! The Minnesota Vikings have moved their practice facility to Waffle House!
I didn't believe it last August, but it turns out that love survives.
Mount Washington conquered July 5, 2010! State high point count: 3/50
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Aug 18, 2010 7:25 PM CDT up reply actions
Defending NL Champs, right?
But it looks like given February demand, the team was just looking for reasons to move more games up into higher price tiers.
by The Deputy Mayor of Rush Street on Aug 18, 2010 9:58 PM CDT up reply actions
Exactly.
And the thing is, these price tiers were set BEFORE February sales. So demand wasn’t even there, and the high prices are part of the reason it went down.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
I miss Jessica already.
This talk of tickets without her just seems bizarre.
"Fasten those seatbelts!"-Pat Hughes
Lucky me.
I get to discuss it with her in the bleachers on Friday.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
"Fun"?
You should see the email I get from her.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
that should be a fanshot
/sarcasm
Chronologically inept since 2060
"I could be writing this crap!" -- Crow T. Robot
Lemme know if you need a break...
I’ll take over and yell up a few thoughts from Waveland
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
The prices for games against the A's were, in some cases, $58 per seat?
Talk about price gouging.
News flash! The Minnesota Vikings have moved their practice facility to Waffle House!
I didn't believe it last August, but it turns out that love survives.
Mount Washington conquered July 5, 2010! State high point count: 3/50
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Aug 18, 2010 7:19 PM CDT up reply actions
Actually, the A's games were not platinum games.
But the Angels series was, as were two weeknights vs. Milwaukee this month.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
Jeebus.
Still way too much.
News flash! The Minnesota Vikings have moved their practice facility to Waffle House!
I didn't believe it last August, but it turns out that love survives.
Mount Washington conquered July 5, 2010! State high point count: 3/50
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Aug 18, 2010 7:24 PM CDT up reply actions
Ouch
I feel your pain Al. I have been pretty unsympathetic to the plight of season ticket holders this year, but for someone like you who actually goes to all the games the bad years hurt more than the good years help.
the midweek games against the Dodgers in May were platinum
yet this weekend’s August games vs the Braves are not platinum. strange.
by holy mackeral on Aug 18, 2010 7:55 PM CDT up reply actions
Yeah, they really didn't think this out too well.
They way overpriced the product. Had they left prices alone from 2009, they likely would have sold more tickets in advance, thus making more money than they have from the increased number of tickets sold.
There’s a possibility they may draw under 3 million this year.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
That would be great
I hope they draw under 3 million. They should pay for putting a lousy product on the field and then overcharging for it. Time for the fans to stop marching out there like lemmings every year.
"They found a delivery in my flaw." - Dan Quisenberry
I blame them more for raising prices than the team
The die was basically cast for this team before Ricketts bought the team. Hendry actually had a decent off-season (minus Grabow).
Okay, that seriously makes no sense whatsoever.
News flash! The Minnesota Vikings have moved their practice facility to Waffle House!
I didn't believe it last August, but it turns out that love survives.
Mount Washington conquered July 5, 2010! State high point count: 3/50
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Aug 18, 2010 10:22 PM CDT up reply actions
Well thank god he isn't going to raise ticket prices after this disaster of a season
I guess he has at least a modicum of business sense
by HuskerCorner on Aug 19, 2010 9:50 AM CDT up reply actions
So Al,
I just want to know if you were able to keep your score card current while you were with Tom.
How about posting it?
I could do that.
But the answer is, yes, I kept the card up. Tom took note that I was keeping score.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
Best of luck to DLee.
Really a shame the way ’10 turned out for the Cubs. Hopefully Mr. Ricketts can put some of that money and scouting to good use for ’11.
by Tangled Up In Blue on Aug 18, 2010 5:44 PM CDT reply actions
Good luck Derrek!
Wish you the best of luck.
Nice of Tom to invite you to sit with him in his suite Al.
A lovely story:
One day, long, long ago, there lived a woman who didn't whine, nag or bitch. That would be me....
But that was a long time ago and it was just that one day.
The end
who wants to invite me to sit with
Them tomorrow?
My goal is to get a $10 ticket
by cozmotaylor123 on Aug 18, 2010 6:44 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
I heard 500 level seats
were $7 on stub-hub.
"You've got to get your damn shirts rolled up and go out and kick somebody's ass. That's what you've got to do. Period." -- Lou Piniella
I sold at $10 on stubhub
terrace reserve right field corner
"They come to see me strike out, hit a home run, or run into a fence. I try to accommodate them at least one way every game." - Gorman Thomas
by RiskyBusiness on Aug 18, 2010 7:20 PM CDT up reply actions
For some games, it's cheaper to buy 2 than 1
Was looking at a September game a couple of weeks ago, can’t remember which one exactly now because I can’t go because of a work conflict, and the pricing in the 500s was something like 1 for $9 and 4 for $2/each – easier to just buy 4, keep two for yourself for some extra room, and give two away.
It's a simple question, Doctor: would you eat the moon if it were made of ribs??
by Invalid User on Aug 18, 2010 8:59 PM CDT up reply actions
Good luck, Derrek
Hopefully it doesn’t preclude him returning to play for the Cubs in 2011, maybe in a lesser role for a smaller salary. There really isn’t much out on the free agent market I’d want the Cubs committing multiple years and big money to. They could do a lot worse than bringing back Derrek in a smaller, incentive-laden deal. He’s not going to find much better out there.
The Phillies recently got Shane Victorino and Chase Utley back off the dl, as well as adding Roy Oswalt. I’m surprised the Braves haven’t made more moves to counter.
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Just North of Wrigley Field
Is Lee back in our lineup tomorrow?
I hope Lou doesn’t freaking hit him 3rd.
"A dream you dream alone is only a dream. A dream you dream together is reality." John Lennon
Did you mean Hak-Ju?
Wouldn’t put it past Lou.
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Just North of Wrigley Field
by jameslcrockett on Aug 18, 2010 5:49 PM CDT up reply actions
Um no
He’s a brave now. Did you somehow miss this story?
by HuskerCorner on Aug 18, 2010 9:11 PM CDT up reply actions
You are aware
The Cubs have a player in their minor league system named Hak-Ju Lee, right?
News flash! The Minnesota Vikings have moved their practice facility to Waffle House!
I didn't believe it last August, but it turns out that love survives.
Mount Washington conquered July 5, 2010! State high point count: 3/50
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Aug 18, 2010 9:12 PM CDT up reply actions
maybe that is who the Braves traded for
and we are hoping they wont notice when DLee shows up instead
Chronologically inept since 2060
"I could be writing this crap!" -- Crow T. Robot
Well yes
But since he’s never been in the lineup, it would be hard for him to be BACK
by HuskerCorner on Aug 18, 2010 9:38 PM CDT up reply actions
I think Cubbiegoon forgot to use the sarcasm indicator.
News flash! The Minnesota Vikings have moved their practice facility to Waffle House!
I didn't believe it last August, but it turns out that love survives.
Mount Washington conquered July 5, 2010! State high point count: 3/50
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Aug 18, 2010 10:03 PM CDT up reply actions
sarcasm is not allowed here
this is a no sarcasm zone, the red zone is for sarcasm only, there is no sarcasm in the white zone.
Chronologically inept since 2060
"I could be writing this crap!" -- Crow T. Robot
you have something against
“Red” zones – you lack of regard for color zone sensitivity is appalling…
I Love Larry - Brick are you looking at random things around the room and saying that you love them - I Love Larry
Currently 34,839 on the Season Ticket Wait List - Expected age of being #0: 119
by hansman1982 on Aug 19, 2010 10:38 AM CDT up reply actions
its a take off from a scene in Airplane
where there is no parking in the red zone, the white zone is for loading and unloading
Chronologically inept since 2060
"I could be writing this crap!" -- Crow T. Robot
Teehee
you took me serious!
"A dream you dream alone is only a dream. A dream you dream together is reality." John Lennon
that was funny :D
"Well-behaved women seldom make History"---Laurel Thatcher Ulrich
by cooliogirl47 on Aug 18, 2010 10:32 PM CDT up reply actions
the ESPN quote by Hendry says it all ..
The overall situation we’re in makes us all somewhere between miserable and sad every day
Bye Derrek .. you will be sorely missed and thanks for all you’ve done to help bring us to the Promised Land ..
Blue mountains high .. Blue valleys low
I don't know which way we shall go ..
One summer dream .. one summer dream ..
coda
ELO, 1975
Hendry...
can stop being miserable and sad… he could just quit and save us all the misery.
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Just North of Wrigley Field
by jameslcrockett on Aug 18, 2010 5:50 PM CDT up reply actions
+ 1000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000
Blue mountains high .. Blue valleys low
I don't know which way we shall go ..
One summer dream .. one summer dream ..
coda
ELO, 1975
i wouldn't be so quick
to criticize Hendry-you"re the one who suggested bringing Lee back.
Sure
Next year… on a one-year deal… for significantly less money… and not batting third… in a season that won’t be much more lost than this year, especially if Hendry is still running the team.
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Just North of Wrigley Field
by jameslcrockett on Aug 19, 2010 4:22 AM CDT up reply actions
fangraphs on the trade. they love it:
The Cubs are a team with plenty of money and a large fanbase, so they really shouldn’t need to perform salary dump deals with players like Derrek Lee. Lee was making roughly $3.25 million for the rest of the season, a number that likely has little impact on the Cubs finances for this year or in the future. Instead of dumping Lee’s salary and getting little in return, the Cubs were aggressive, and threw cash into the deal to help coax some legitimate value out of this deal. Jim Hendry deserves major credit for this trade, as instead of spending his money on an aging first baseman on a fifth place team, he now has three more solid pitching prospects to load into his system. This is just an excellent overall pickup for Chicago.
good job jim1!!
"Matt Capps is more valuable than Albert Pujols."---by Doggie Stalker on Aug 16, 2010 9:35 PM PDT
by LouPiniellaIsRetiring on Aug 18, 2010 5:50 PM CDT reply actions 2 recs
I agree with this 100%.
The kid Lopez in particular looks very promising, and is only 19.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
It's a good deal.
Who knows whether it was better than the Angels deal? We’ll never know that, but it won’t matter much, because he made a good deal here.
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Just North of Wrigley Field
by jameslcrockett on Aug 18, 2010 5:52 PM CDT up reply actions
you know i and many others give Jim Hendry shit (and rightfully so) but he really isn’t a complete idiot. Well maybe not but whatever I’ll give him credit.
"Matt Capps is more valuable than Albert Pujols."---by Doggie Stalker on Aug 16, 2010 9:35 PM PDT
by LouPiniellaIsRetiring on Aug 18, 2010 5:52 PM CDT up reply actions
did any of these prospects get a NTC added onto their current contracts as part of the trade?
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Aug 18, 2010 5:53 PM CDT up reply actions
Good point!
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Just North of Wrigley Field
by jameslcrockett on Aug 18, 2010 5:54 PM CDT up reply actions
On occasion Hendry can swing a good trade
I’ll give him that much. I still think his mistakes far outweigh his successes
by HuskerCorner on Aug 18, 2010 9:14 PM CDT up reply actions
Thanks for posting this
It is good to see any sign of progress.
"Wait, are you saying I'm a sunshine-pumping, koolaid-drinking, Soriano-loving, rainbow-rising, unicorn-riding, double-clutching, Sweet Lou-backing, Hendry-supporting, hey hey whaddya saying, Cubs are going all the waying, glass is overflowing, Rothschild is all-knowing, Cubs fan? - ballhawk
+1
this is whay, I feel, that Ricketts is keeping Hendry on – his ability to trade – I think Tom is hoping that over the next year Jim will be able to move alot of $$$ from the books and get some good stuff in return – maybe even have him voluntarily step down to a position that does that solely.
I Love Larry - Brick are you looking at random things around the room and saying that you love them - I Love Larry
Currently 34,839 on the Season Ticket Wait List - Expected age of being #0: 119
by hansman1982 on Aug 19, 2010 10:40 AM CDT up reply actions
Castro, Colvin, Demp???? lol
A lovely story:
One day, long, long ago, there lived a woman who didn't whine, nag or bitch. That would be me....
But that was a long time ago and it was just that one day.
The end
Best of luck Derrek
You will be missed. I hope you help the Braves kick the snot out of the Phillies
The haul from the trade
Here’s a paragraph from a Braves blog, Capital Hill Club:
Speaking of which, the Cubs get three legitimate prospects. The best of the trio is Robinson Lopez, a 6’2″ right-hander with an extremely live arm and a very projectable frame. His results at class A Rome have been disappointing, but it’s important to remember he’s only 19 years old and this is his first full season. I still hold him in very high regard. The other two are relievers. Lorick, the left hander, was a 20th round pick out of the University of Virginia in last year’s draft. He’s not the typical refined prospect you see from a 4-year college, but he has some late-game potential. Harris was taken one round before Lorick in the same draft. He throws hard and he’s had a successful first full pro season, making it all the way to AA. He’s got a huge frame (6’4″, 235 LB), and like Lorick has some late-game potential.
I'll miss you D Lee
Always a gentleman, always a pro! Good luck in Atlanta.
Yes, good luck & godspeed
except for the upcoming 3 game series at Wrigley this weekend. :)
"I knew there had to be a place where the game could be fun again. I found that place. It's called Wrigley Field. It reminded that if you love the game, it will love you back." - Andre Dawson, HOF speech 7/25/10
He's talking about the Cubs offense.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Aug 18, 2010 5:59 PM CDT up reply actions
Or the Cubs' defensive fundamentals.
News flash! The Minnesota Vikings have moved their practice facility to Waffle House!
I didn't believe it last August, but it turns out that love survives.
Mount Washington conquered July 5, 2010! State high point count: 3/50
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Aug 18, 2010 7:20 PM CDT up reply actions
The window closed
In the future, perhaps this franchise will be able to reload more often than rebuild.
Good move by Hendry to get something of “value” for Lee.
WWOZ.org - New Orleans Jazz and Heritage Station
oops...
“When the trade was presented to me, I just felt the best thing for me and my family was to stay here,” Lee said after the Cubs lost 8-1 to the Astros. "Jim and I had a great conversation about it. Jim’s been great about the whole thing.
“[Rejecting the trade] was a baseball process. There’s a lot of thought that goes into it, not just that I have a home [nearly finished in Los Angeles]. I thought about it for a good 24 hours, and agonized over it. The bottom line is my family and I like Chicago. I like my teammates, and that’s just the decision I made.”
I guess he and his family don’t like Chicago anymore.
NEXT year is THE year!
well, it must get old
"Wait, are you saying I'm a sunshine-pumping, koolaid-drinking, Soriano-loving, rainbow-rising, unicorn-riding, double-clutching, Sweet Lou-backing, Hendry-supporting, hey hey whaddya saying, Cubs are going all the waying, glass is overflowing, Rothschild is all-knowing, Cubs fan? - ballhawk
I hope the Braves beat the crap out of the Cardinals in the playoffs!
Best wishes to DeLee. Thanks for your efforts on the North Side.
Get 'em on, Get 'em over, Get 'em in!
i'm still holding out hope
that the cardinals don’t make the playoffs.. call me a dreamer.
i understand the logic behind this move obviously, but it still makes me pretty sad to see derrek leave. especially when i will be seeing him at wrigley on friday.
or the reds..whomever.
As long as the nl isn’t represented by the central.
by bilbosbuttons on Aug 18, 2010 6:06 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
Full Breakdown Of Lopez:
http://scoutingthesally.com/2010/08/scouting-report-robinson-lopez-p-atlanta-braves/
Happy Trails D-Lee, I’ll always be a fan.
Good-bye and good luck, D-Lee!
A very classy man who gave the Cubs some great years. All the best to him!
by Mike Vails Evil Twin on Aug 18, 2010 6:02 PM CDT reply actions
i feel good knowing
Someone I know, who knows my screen name knows tom ricketts, lol
Thanks d-lee. I have been critical of you the last couple years. But, all in all, I enjoyed watching you play.
by bilbosbuttons on Aug 18, 2010 6:03 PM CDT via mobile reply actions
As someone who...
has been critical of Lee the last two seasons, I’m saddened to see him go. He was one of the classiest Cubs I’ve seen in my 28 years. He played the game the right way. It’ll be weird to see him in another uniform. I wish him all the best for the rest of his career.
Well...
there certainly was when his OPS was under 700 in late May of last year. Obviously he turned it around.
How dare he have a bad month
If he had a bad August nobody would have noticed considering how good his overall numbers were. He had a fantastic year last year. Just leave it at that.
It was most certainly...
more than one bad month.
But I’m not sure what your point is. I’m saying that while I may have been overly critical of him, it’s sad to see him go out like this.
Last year Lee had one month where his OPS was under 950
So it was most certainly not more than one month.
Best comment I've seen yet.
I haven’t always been Lee’s biggest fan, (I disliked him following all the GIDPs in 2008), but I think the same way about the trade as you do.
News flash! The Minnesota Vikings have moved their practice facility to Waffle House!
I didn't believe it last August, but it turns out that love survives.
Mount Washington conquered July 5, 2010! State high point count: 3/50
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Aug 18, 2010 7:22 PM CDT up reply actions
Derrek, I didn't love the way you played this year. That said, you were always the classiest guy
and a leader in your good natured rdiway. I find it great how your last 2 at bats as a member of the Cubs were homers against the Canals. Good luck in Atlanta.
by braziliancubsfan on Aug 18, 2010 6:07 PM CDT reply actions
Thanks to Derrek for some solid years
Hopefully those pitchers we got can turn into a functional bullpen.
The world's biggest BCS hater and damn proud of it!
Proud Colts fan boycotting StampedeBlue.com since 7/17/2010
The opinions of Brad Wells (BigBlueShoe) do NOT speak for all Colts fans. Most Colts fans are well informed and good people. This has been a public service announcement.
I also hope that D Lee gets a Standing O when he returns to Wrigley
by braziliancubsfan on Aug 18, 2010 6:10 PM CDT reply actions
I hope he does too.
A lovely story:
One day, long, long ago, there lived a woman who didn't whine, nag or bitch. That would be me....
But that was a long time ago and it was just that one day.
The end
I would think he would.
After that, I hope he strikes out every time up.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
I'm hoping for 12 solo shots onto Waveland
and a Cubs sweep… ;-)
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
Let him hit the 12 onto Waveland during batting practice.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
He should get a long standing O........But I agree, then I hope its K's and DP's in clutch situations.
Then he can go hit .700 vs the rest of the league.
D Lee: Epitome of a Classy player
I will miss him a lot but on the other hand it does give me a reason to root for someone in the playoffs, since we won’t be there.
So long
to the only reason to watch the 2005 cubs. That and Jeromy Burnitz.
Keep it going
He was my favorite player of the last 7 years or so, but he had to go and we had to get something for him. But who’s next? They really need to move Fukudome at the very least, but it’d be nice to see Nady and a couple others shipped off as well. Maybe even Aramis whom was rumored to be going to the Braves before this. Its time to clean house and build up around the kids.
no matter where you go, there you are.
Nady is a FA after this year, he only had a one year deal. He's gone regardless.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Aug 18, 2010 6:17 PM CDT up reply actions
I'm a fan of Ricketts.
He did inherit quite a mess. I’m glad he’s very involved when it comes to fans. I met him at Cubs-cards last month. He sat and chatted with our group for a good ten minutes about the season and what not. He told us that Aramis wasn’t going anywhere too, for whatever that’s worth. You could just tell how into the team he was and how bad he wants to succeed.
by Dcr18 on Aug 18, 2010 6:16 PM CDT via mobile reply actions
I'll become a fan of his when he actually does something.
Platitudes are all well and good, he certainly got some tips on how to be a politician from his brother, but he hasn’t done anything to make this team better, and keeping Hendry after this season would be a very big strike against him. IMO
by HuskerCorner on Aug 18, 2010 9:18 PM CDT up reply actions
Goodbye Derek...
Don’t let the door hit ya! Oh yeah and make a phone call to your buddy Aramis and persuade him to accept a trade. Maybe if we can get rid of few more of these washed up bums, Hendry won’t be inclined to go out and spend insane money on the likes of Dunn in the winter. No more putting band-aids on our wounds.
It’s time to rebuild and let the rest of these insane contracts run out.
Flame away….!
Has Ricketts said this? You're just guessing now.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Aug 18, 2010 6:25 PM CDT up reply actions
Maybe
I don’t know why he wouldn’t just fire the guy then. The quote about Hendry being the GM “going into next year” wasn’t really a vote of confidence.
$$
If he doesn’t let Hendry sign anybody we will know he didn’t really want to keep him. I actually don’t think Hendry is a terrible GM as long as he doesn’t have to handle any long-term planning.
That's a good point I didn't consider.
Just like some of the players, we may just have to wait for his contract to run out.
Would you be totally upset
If he closed the purse strings and told Hendry that he was only in charge of short-term baseball decisions (like the Lee trade today)? I actually think Hendry w/ a big-picture guy in front of him wouldn’t be a terrible front office.
Hendry seems to be good at getting deals done and has good relationships throughout the league.
The thing is, this team is bad enough
That I don’t see how they can close the purse strings and magically become contenders. So if, as Al and NBF say, this team can’t afford not to contend, then what’s really the point?
And yet...
… look at what the Padres are doing with almost no payroll. The Rays, too.
It can be done.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
It can be done with a freaking awesome farm system
If the Cubs do need to contend, do you really think closing the purse strings is the way to get it done?
you're basing all this on the very first draft under the Ricketts ownership banner...
you seem like a smart guy so I’ll assume you know that planning for a draft doesn’t happen over coffee and an afternoon meeting. These players are scouted and looked at over months…our new owner really had no time to drastically influence how this draft went down. Now the PREVIOUS ownership (the one trying to get rid of the team to help with all the debt they had) probably had much more to say about what the draft budget was.
Take a breath and give it at least a couple years will ya?
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Aug 18, 2010 7:01 PM CDT up reply actions
I think we're talking about two different things here
This year’s picks likely won’t have any bearing on how well the team does next year. The Rays were able to turn things around in a big way because they spent time building a fantastic farm system. I don’t blame Ricketts for what the farm system was or wasn’t before he was owner.
As for the draft this year, I wouldn’t expect his influence in the draft to be any more than saying “yay” or “nay” to what the scouting director sets the budget as. While it doesn’t happen over coffee or an afternoon meeting, it doesn’t take months to meet with Ricketts and present options. The only comment I’ve made about this year’s draft is that it’s not a good sign that the Cubs spent little. Hopefully next year is better.
When did Ricketts take over the club?
The Cubs (if they are doing their job right) scout everybody. If Ricketts was intent on running the organization like the Red Sox, he would have gone to his management team and told them to draft overslot guys that they liked. Maybe he did and Wilken didn’t like very many overslot guys (he did get Golden and Wells). We just don’t know. If the Cubs drop tons of cash on next years draft, then that will seem to be the best explanation. But, going cheap in the draft isn’t a good strategy for building the farm system.
As a Cubs fan...
I have no interest in the Cub striving to become the Padres.
The Rays, while stingy, are also loaded in the minors – they’re following the Twins model. So I wouldn’t mind the Cubs doing that.
But I think it’s completely reasonable to demand that the Cubs be in the Yankee/Red Sox orbit when it comes to baseball money/allocation and success.
WWOZ.org - New Orleans Jazz and Heritage Station
by Gibbon Jockey on Aug 18, 2010 6:58 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Exactly.....
They should be striving for Yankee/Red Sox success
The best defense is a good offense.....Lou Pinella...still hasn't managed the Cubs to a post season win. D. Lee still doesn't have a post seasson RBI for Cubs...ditto for Soriano
"It's so simple, it's unbelievable," manager Lou Piniella said. "When you score runs, you win."
Dusty Baker is the only manager in the last 100+ years to lead the Cubs to a post season series win....
"Take the hands off the clock, we're gong to be here a while"
The operative word is "demand."
How can we achieve that, aside from bitching an moaning on the comments section of a sponsored blog?
pour sand down the gastank of Ricketts' Lexus?
I'll go to my grave believing Armando Galarraga tossed the 21st perfect game in MLB history.
stop going to games
worked with the White Sox. They dont shoiw up when the team is losing, and when they are winning they reward them with ticket sales.
Chronologically inept since 2060
"I could be writing this crap!" -- Crow T. Robot
They don't show up when they win, either
Look at the crowds they had last week when the Twins were in town.
The “we don’t go to the games when they suck” meme a lot of Sox fans push is a crock.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Aug 18, 2010 10:09 PM CDT up reply actions
I agree with this
The idea that Sox fans force their management to put a good team on the field is a crock. Reinsdorf loves that baseball team and wants to have a winner. There is no doubt in my mind that if he could count on the Sox to draw like the Cubs do that they would have among the highest payrolls in baseball. If anything, the Sox fans are hurting their ballclub.
Absolutely they are
But they take more pride out of tweaking the Cubs than they do about paying attention to their own team. Per usual.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Aug 18, 2010 11:30 PM CDT up reply actions
Not sure what you're getting at...
But from my POV, If a team spends $150MM a year on payroll, contending for the division should be an annual occurrence while pennant chases should also be feasible.
WWOZ.org - New Orleans Jazz and Heritage Station
by Gibbon Jockey on Aug 18, 2010 9:53 PM CDT up reply actions
Before the Padres & Rays were achieving success with "almost no payroll"...
did they have a huge payroll with contracts like Soriano, Z, ARam, Dome, DLee, etc. all at the same time? and most of those with NTCs?
The highest salary on the 2008 Padres (63-99) was Maddux at $10M. The 2007 Rays (66-96) had Crawford at $4.125M
I understand it’s very possible to turn around a team’s misfortunes in a very short time. But I’m getting tired of hearing about the Padres, Rays, etc. when those teams were not remotely close to being in the same situation as the 2010 Cubs are w.r.t. payroll/contracts.
If you want to look to other teams’ turnarounds to give us hope for the Cubs contending in 2011, you’re gonna have to come up with other examples than Rays & Padres.
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
by ballhawk on Aug 18, 2010 7:55 PM CDT up reply actions 2 recs
That's a good point
Often times, significant improvement means significant turnover. Other than the bullpen, I don’t see many places where this team has the opportunity to make wholesale changes.
+1
"Wait, are you saying I'm a sunshine-pumping, koolaid-drinking, Soriano-loving, rainbow-rising, unicorn-riding, double-clutching, Sweet Lou-backing, Hendry-supporting, hey hey whaddya saying, Cubs are going all the waying, glass is overflowing, Rothschild is all-knowing, Cubs fan? - ballhawk
But the Padres and Rays didn't have prior salary commitments of over $100M
That’s what the Cubs are looking at in 2011, before signing Marmol, Soto, Marshall and Gorzelanny. Makes the shoestring plan a whole lot tougher to pull off.
Sometimes I wonder if "can't afford to contend"
doesn’t contain a little “I’ll swear them off for good”…
I'll go to my grave believing Armando Galarraga tossed the 21st perfect game in MLB history.
That's gonna put quite a dent in fan interest next year then
Just like after 2006, they need a big shiny acquisition to sell tickets after what we’ve seen this year.
But
Isn’t signing a big free agent class only to suck next year a money-loser long term? If Ricketts realizes this thing needs a full overhaul, doesn’t he have to take a hit next year?
If I were Ricketts, my plan would be to shed as much salary as possible next year, lower ticket prices and build from within. A young team with cheaper tickets seems to me a better value for Ricketts than trying to rebuild on the fly with expensive vets.
It probably is
I’m just saying that if theory that the Cubs must contend is true, then your idea flies in the face of it. And while they may one day lower ticket prices, I doubt it will be a significant decrease, and won’t make up for the 8,000 unsold tickets.
Even if the Cubs sign Dunn in the off-season
I don’t think they are going to reach 2007 levels of pre-season sales. The “mystique” (I hate to use Doggiestalker’s term here but it seems apt) is gone because tickets have been so readily available the last two years. Not to mention that even the most braindead Cubs fans are aware that a high payroll doesn’t guarantee anything. I think the Cubs have to actually contend to draw big next year. Pretending to contend won’t work.
You don't think signing Dunn and Cliff Lee
Would move tickets? The Cubs are pretty good at the hype machine. Rudy Jaramillo was supposed to be the second coming.
I don't think they can either
It just seems like next year could be a “damned if you do, damned if you don’t” year regarding chances of contending. Tom’s gonna have some interesting choices to make.
The problem is that Dunn + Lee = $35M-$40M/year in payroll
Without Ricketts expanding the budget or major salary relief on moving guys like Fukudome, the team won’t have that mone.
It has nothing to do with "mystique".
It has everything to do with bad performance and overpriced tickets in a down economy.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
You keep saying this...economy.economy.economy
The Economy doesn’t mean a damn thing when you can afford things.
get it yet?
WWOZ.org - New Orleans Jazz and Heritage Station
by Gibbon Jockey on Aug 18, 2010 7:26 PM CDT up reply actions
Yes
You and I agree on the pre-season ticket issue. I do think that because of the bad performance, overpriced tickets and down economy that there is no incentive to buy in Feburary anymore. Nothing to do with pre-sale hype. That’s all I meant by “mystique”.
When the above three factors did not exist you had to buy tickets in February unless you wanted to be gouged in July by brokers. That’s no longer the case.
Ricketts
I’m sure Ricketts enjoyed the heck out of being in the Bleachers and watching the Cubs be down 2-0 almost immediately.
I want
to believe in Rickett’s I really do. But its very hard when you look at our lack of moves in the draft & with the int’l free agents. If Ricketts really wants to emulate Boston and build then you have to spend money. Good prospects are not cheap. You can’t plan on always finding diamonds in the rough and so far that seems to be the game plan. If he wants to charge us fans the highest ticket prices in the majors then he better damn well be one of the biggest players for young talent out there.
We have the youngest starting SS in baseball....
one of the youngest RF’ers (when he gets to play) and a relatively young catcher.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Aug 18, 2010 6:24 PM CDT up reply actions
And spent $3.5 million in the draft
And weren’t a major player for Aroldis Chapman. And weren’t players for any of the top Dominican players this year. Ricketts’ approach to building the farm system has left a lot to be desired so far.
and that
is a nice group. That developed outside of Ricketts
Owners don't dictate the development and acquisition of players...you really want Ricketts involved in that?
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Aug 18, 2010 6:28 PM CDT up reply actions
no
but I want his checkbook to open up to get young talent. Then let the organization develop them. There isnt anybody on earth who thinks the Cubs ran anything other than a draft so cheap that even George Constanza would blush. That isnt a good thing
Didn't they just spend $3.5 million on the draft?
His checkbook is pretty open to me. He also sent money with the Lilly and Lee trades.
"A dream you dream alone is only a dream. A dream you dream together is reality." John Lennon
What do you want Ricketts to do?
Dude just got the team less than a year ago. How is he supposed to change the whole system in less than a year? The development of the minor leagues will keep going as they are because it is working.
"A dream you dream alone is only a dream. A dream you dream together is reality." John Lennon
by Cubbiegoon on Aug 18, 2010 6:40 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
He didn't have to change the whole system
All he had to say was that he was willing to pay over slot on more than one or two draft picks.
Was he the owner during the draft this year?
There were plenty of overslot players he could have drafted.
Seriously, is overslot drafting the way to evaluate a team owner?
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
its a sign Al
That he is willing to spend to improve.
Again- Talent cost money. Whether in the draft or for latin amateurs. We havent spent any on either. That cant be taken as a good sign.
Again...
… I’d give this ownership a couple years before you totally give up on it. They haven’t been in charge for even one full year yet.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
That's fair
But this year is a negative data point when it comes to the draft and international signings in my book.
Didn't he say he wanted to run his organization like the Red Sox?
That’s how they do business. If you don’t want to do that, don’t tease us by saying that’s what you are going to do.
It really use some work
No power prospects at the top levels, with Vitters struggling, and this year’s parade of young pitchers was “meh.” The minor league teams are kicking butt at their levels and Castro is awesome, but they need more depth in the system.
Haha
The Cards spend $3.2 million on Zach Cox. The Red Sox spend $11.5 million. $3.5 million is chump change. The Pirates probably spent at least 2x that.
The dollar amount isn't necessarily as important as picking the right players.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
True
But, the Cubs haven’t earned the right to the benefit of the doubt when it comes to the draft yet. Wilken has improved the system, but we still aren’t a top 10 system yet.
He's had it for four years.
It is now producing good major league players (Colvin, Castro) and may produce more soon.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
Who?
Like I said, it’s better than it has been, but the last two drafts haven’t been chock full of high-end talent.
Today's trade may help restock, right?
They got at least one guy who looks very good.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
I like today's trade
I also liked the Lilly trade. I don’t think Hendry is an idiot, I just would have been encouraged if they had drafted a few more overslot guys or signed some of the top Dominican talents.
It's also two different issues
Trading for talent is Hendry’s decision. How much money the team is willing to invest in draft and world signings is more Ricketts call.
Yeah, but wasn't that a no brainer?
We can either suck and pay Lee 3.25 million or we can suck and pay the Braves 1.7 million and get three prospects.
Wasn't this year's draft class considered average at best?
And isn’t next year’s draft class considered to be loaded?
It doesn’t really matter much as it’s not my money, but I’m not a big fan of spending just to spend (see Steinbrenner’s early years with the Yankees). By the same token, I very much like spending on high quality (ARod, CC, Teixeira). And yes, I know I’m comparing signing FAs with drafting, but it’s the concept here, not the specifics.
If the same thing (no overslot picks) happens with next year’s draft, then I’d start to get concerned.
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
Yes
Todays trade was a good thing. We sent $ to get better prospects. So that is a good thing to see.
Based on the pitching I've seen this year....
I’m pretty worried.
The best defense is a good offense.....Lou Pinella...still hasn't managed the Cubs to a post season win. D. Lee still doesn't have a post seasson RBI for Cubs...ditto for Soriano
"It's so simple, it's unbelievable," manager Lou Piniella said. "When you score runs, you win."
Dusty Baker is the only manager in the last 100+ years to lead the Cubs to a post season series win....
"Take the hands off the clock, we're gong to be here a while"
agreed Al
but you can’t argue that in the draft just like in life more often than not the best talent costs more.
If the Cubs were convinced that Hayden Simpson was a diamond in the rough then great. But based on this draft they are trying to sign everybody on the cheap and hope they become great. That isnt long term draft strategy you want.
I think you have to wait a couple years...
… before you can really see the effect of new ownership on the draft. Ricketts hasn’t even been in charge for one full calendar year.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
You have
to wait a few years for results on WHO you draft but the budget can be judged right away. And ours was the cheapest in the majors this year.
Cheapest of ALL teams?
You have numbers to back that up?
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
I have seen
#‘s on mltr and through various twitter feeds on the overall bonuses paid out and so far I haven’t seen anybody with less than our 3.5.
If you have any specific info I'd like to see it.
Hard to believe we spent less than the Pirates or Royals.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
Oh
I know those two for sure. Pirates spent more than we did on their top two picks alone. They had a great draft. Gotta see about the Royals but their 2nd round alone cost them 1.25 million.
The Pirates and Royals typically spend a ton on the draft
they need to, because it’s the only way out of the hole
If knowledge is the key, then just show me the lock.
Got the scrawny legs but I move just like Lou Brock.
But that's how Tampa came back from the dead
The draft is a bad place to get cheap – talent costs much there than on the FA market.
Are we including teams that didn't sign their 1st round pick?
For the record, Seiler’s $3.5m signing bonus budget number came prior to the announced signings of Rhoderick, Harman, and Smith. I think those three put them somewhere around $3.75m. If Szczur signs away from football (and gets his extra $500k), they might end up around $4.25m or so.
Off the top of my head, the Brewers spent somewhere around $2m in signing bonuses because they failed to sign their first rounder. Other teams around or below $4m for signing bonuses include the Twins, Padres, White Sox, Braves, Marlins, Mets, and Phillies. The Cubs will probably end up spending somewhere in the bottom 3rd compared to other teams in this year’s draft, from what I can tell.
That’s still pretty sad, especially considering the Red Sox spent somewhere in the neighborhood of $11m in signing bonuses.
by Outshined_One on Aug 18, 2010 8:04 PM CDT up reply actions
Agreed
Heck, I’ll even take the Blue Jays or Pirates at this point, considering both spent in excess of $10m on signing bonuses.
by Outshined_One on Aug 18, 2010 8:09 PM CDT up reply actions
"classy"
It’s so nebulous and subjective and wishywashy and boring. I hate that adjective.
I blame Ron Burgundy.
WWOZ.org - New Orleans Jazz and Heritage Station
It's a whine/bitch grenade.
It goes off after Lee’s replacement is found.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Aug 18, 2010 6:30 PM CDT up reply actions
It is going to start tomorrow...
when Nady or Hoff is playing first.
"A dream you dream alone is only a dream. A dream you dream together is reality." John Lennon
Probably Hoff.
A lovely story:
One day, long, long ago, there lived a woman who didn't whine, nag or bitch. That would be me....
But that was a long time ago and it was just that one day.
The end
Maybe Colvin will get some playing time at 1B.
There’s really no point in playing Hoffpauir. He will not be a Cub next year.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
HE MUST BE REWARDED. IT'S THE HENDRY WAY.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Aug 18, 2010 6:40 PM CDT up reply actions
Hoff will play
Goodness, Lou is making out the lineup card, Hoff will play against every righthanded pitcher.
unless its al Nady all the time now at 1b
Chronologically inept since 2060
"I could be writing this crap!" -- Crow T. Robot
I would like to see
how Colvin would do at first.
A lovely story:
One day, long, long ago, there lived a woman who didn't whine, nag or bitch. That would be me....
But that was a long time ago and it was just that one day.
The end
He won't even play cloven at his natural position, I don't think he's going to play him
At a position the dude hasn’t been in for a couple of years
by HuskerCorner on Aug 18, 2010 9:27 PM CDT up reply actions
Cloven=colvin
Stupid suggested spelling
by HuskerCorner on Aug 18, 2010 9:27 PM CDT up reply actions
Thanks for the clarification
I was waiting to see if he was going to play Hoof or not
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
No Cloven Hoof
But Hoof Power.
[...]when Giants coach Steve Owen, a certified defensive genius, was asked how he planned to stop Nagurski, he said: "With a shotgun, as he’s leaving the dressing room."
by NobodySpecial on Aug 19, 2010 2:25 AM CDT up reply actions
It won't be Hoff for a couple days at least
He can’t be called up until then
by doofus cubs guy on Aug 19, 2010 8:55 AM CDT up reply actions
Two reasons:
1. He wasn’t going to get offered arbitration, so it was this or nothing.
2. The guys the Cubs got won’t preclude them from making a big splash next year (like DeWitt). I’m not bashing on DeWitt, just saying.
Things that make you go hmmm
I don’t see why Lilly earns 100 “I want Teddy” posts, but Lee gets mostly “don’t let the door hit you on the way out” posts.
Well, you alluded to it
By citing the difference between Lilly and Lee. What’s the most obvious one, besides their position?
by Not Bruce Froemming on Aug 18, 2010 7:47 PM CDT up reply actions
Sure is
Honestly, though, I don’t see a lot of don’t-let-the-door-hit-you salutes to D-Lee here, unless I’m just not paying attention too closely.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Aug 18, 2010 7:55 PM CDT up reply actions
No
The Lee haters (and there are many) aren’t out today. But you also don’t see anyone lamenting his loss the way you did with Lilly. But that might have just been a very vocal and delusional minority.
Lee is a class act, and I am happy we had him as long as we did
I am glad he went to a team that should be post season bound. I have no hate for him at all, but he was not helping us this season, and its a good trade IMHO cuz you can never have enough pitching
Chronologically inept since 2060
"I could be writing this crap!" -- Crow T. Robot
Well said Tim.
A lovely story:
One day, long, long ago, there lived a woman who didn't whine, nag or bitch. That would be me....
But that was a long time ago and it was just that one day.
The end
and TWSS
Thats What Sue Said
Chronologically inept since 2060
"I could be writing this crap!" -- Crow T. Robot
but with Lilly
we didnt get the Dodgers #1 prospect, and that is what upset everyone
I Love Larry - Brick are you looking at random things around the room and saying that you love them - I Love Larry
Currently 34,839 on the Season Ticket Wait List - Expected age of being #0: 119
by hansman1982 on Aug 19, 2010 10:50 AM CDT up reply actions
Oh for gods sake
Really? You’re going there?
by HuskerCorner on Aug 18, 2010 9:28 PM CDT up reply actions
I'm generally not interested in race
But it crops up way too frequently with the Cubs for me to completely ignore it. It is starting to bother me that all the untalented try-hard fan favorites happen to be white guys.
Um, doesn't that prove my point
If Bobby Scales looked like Sam Fuld, I wonder what the fan base might have done after the storybook opening to his MLB career.
actually Scales got a lot of cheers and love here
as has Fuld.
Chronologically inept since 2060
"I could be writing this crap!" -- Crow T. Robot
Wait.
as has Fuld.
Are there two or more people giving Fuld cheers and love here? I definitely know who one person giving Fuld support is.
News flash! The Minnesota Vikings have moved their practice facility to Waffle House!
I didn't believe it last August, but it turns out that love survives.
Mount Washington conquered July 5, 2010! State high point count: 3/50
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Aug 19, 2010 7:05 AM CDT up reply actions
Yes - I was giving Fuld props in the offseason
I was perfectly willing to go with a Reed/Fuld quasi-platoon in center and put our apparently limited FA funds towards the bullpen. Obviously Byrd turned out to be a damn good acquisition but boy did/does our bullpen suck…
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
Same here
but I’m afraid their might be fire when there’s smoke.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Aug 18, 2010 11:31 PM CDT up reply actions
except you're the one fanning the embers to life
by HuskerCorner on Aug 19, 2010 7:49 AM CDT up reply actions
Bull
Not talking about an elephant in the room doesn’t mean the elephant is going away.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Aug 19, 2010 11:49 AM CDT up reply actions
That only makes sense if there's an elephant in the room to begin with
If there’s no elephant, then you talking about is indeed “fanning the embers to life”
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
you saying there are mice in the room
keeping the elephant away?
Chronologically inept since 2060
"I could be writing this crap!" -- Crow T. Robot
And
The way Cubs fans turned on Jacque Jones, LaTroy Hawkins and Milton Bradley was very disappointing.
C'mon
Cubs fans are fickle, and players that don’t perform or are destructive to the team tend to be hated. Not because of their race.
Cashner (one of our top prospects) has been catching all sorts of crap in recent game threads. Aaron Miles was openly despised. People loved Theriot, then turned on him. Tootblan was invented and will forever be linked to him. Bob Howry was insulted on a daily basis. The fans turned on Farnsworth. They have turned on Hoffpauir. Gregg. Barrett. Heilman. Hundley. This list of white players that fans really disliked goes on and on.
Untalented try-hards (not that I even agree with that nomenclature) can get the benefit of the doubt for a while, but if they don’t perform fans will turn on them.
There’s pretty much been nothing but respect for Lee since the trade. There is a general feeling that he’s not the player he used to be and so it was time to part ways, but in no way is that the same thing as racism. Lee is the only current Cub whose jersey I own. My respect for him and my happiness that he was a Cub while he was here are not diminished because you don’t see me posting QQ threads lamenting that I wish he wasn’t going.
If you think DLee deserves a QQ thread then you should make one instead of tossing around the general insinuation of racism because BCBers aren’t crying enough for your taste.
2011 can't get here soon enough.
by Castro Por Presidente on Aug 19, 2010 3:21 AM CDT up reply actions 11 recs
+1
Rec’d.
News flash! The Minnesota Vikings have moved their practice facility to Waffle House!
I didn't believe it last August, but it turns out that love survives.
Mount Washington conquered July 5, 2010! State high point count: 3/50
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Aug 19, 2010 6:49 AM CDT up reply actions
For clarifications sake
I don’t believe that Cubs fans are racists. I don’t believe that Milton Bradley heard the n-word in the bleachers last season. I do think that Cubs fans identify much more closely with untalented try-hard guys and give them the benefit of the doubt as far as effort much more so than well-paid black men such as Bradley, Jones, Hawkins, and Soriano. Booing in general bothers me. When the harshest vitriol seems to be always directed at black men it raises questions in my eyes.
I don’t dispute that white players have been booed. But, those booings didn’t seem to have the edge that the vitriol directed towards Bradley, Hawkins and Jones had.
I agree with you in
that booing bothers me too. I do remember a poster in here last year being at a game and heard a fan call Milton the n-word and how disgusted he and other fans were at this person.
A lovely story:
One day, long, long ago, there lived a woman who didn't whine, nag or bitch. That would be me....
But that was a long time ago and it was just that one day.
The end
That is disgusting
If I was in the crowd and heard someone do that I would either beat the s—- out of them myself or report them to security depending on how drunk I was.
Nobody should be called the N word...it is repulsive....
But Milton Bradley the man deserved to be booed.
That's a reason to boo him?
Cubs fans never gave Milton a chance. Sure he was a major part of the problem, but Cubs fans behavior towards Milton was very disappointing.
Yes, because they were all so AWESOME
Ryan Theriot is one of the most disliked Cubs from this year’s team. I’m having a problem jibing your playing of the race card with that.
by HuskerCorner on Aug 19, 2010 7:50 AM CDT up reply actions
Disliked by whom?
BCB finally turned against him this year, but among fans at the ballpark Theriot remained one of the more popular players.
Hmmm.
I don’t know if I agree with your last statement, JSB. It’s kinda hard to gauge any player’s popularity this season. Lee and Lilly were still cheered, Byrd has a lot of new fans and Dempster and Marmol are well liked.
But I’ve been to a few Cubs games where Theriot didn’t prompt much of a fan reactioni.
Agreed.
It’s hard to gauge popularity. I think it is indisputable that over his three years with the team his popularity was disporportionate to his contribution to the team. One decent gauge of popularity is how many Theriot t-shirts you see at the park. I doubt any other mediocre middle infielder in the league sold so many jerseys.
Um, what's your point
That I loved a bad latin player? My point was that Theriot always sucked yet was irrationally popular.
Marlon Byrd would like to have a word with you.
News flash! The Minnesota Vikings have moved their practice facility to Waffle House!
I didn't believe it last August, but it turns out that love survives.
Mount Washington conquered July 5, 2010! State high point count: 3/50
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Aug 19, 2010 7:06 AM CDT up reply actions
oh like
Starlin Castro? or maybe Marlon Byrd, how about Sammy Sosa and oh I am sure I am forgetting someone – oh yeah – Soto…damn those guys for being white and fan favorites
I Love Larry - Brick are you looking at random things around the room and saying that you love them - I Love Larry
Currently 34,839 on the Season Ticket Wait List - Expected age of being #0: 119
by hansman1982 on Aug 19, 2010 10:52 AM CDT up reply actions
Dude
Sammy Sosa is persona non grata at Wrigley Field right now. I have read more criticism of him than praise on this board. Hell, just the other day I read a guy ripping Hendry because Sosa wasn’t traded earlier. The guy was an f-ing HOFer, I should hope he was a fan favorite.
The same Starlin Castro that was booed in his debut? The same Starlin Castro that constantly gets ripped on for making errors despite the fact that his defense is among the best in the league.
The same Soto that was brutally ripped this entire off-season for showing up out of shape?
Marlon Byrd has performed like an All-Star this year. Of course he hasn’t gotten booed. If he starts slumping next year, let’s see how soon people turn on him.
Boom
My point made. You are such a moron. I don’t have time to drop all the stats on you, but you are ripping the greatest Cub of the last 70 years.
Yes better than Ernie
Over half of baseball was using PEDs. I am pretty sure Sosa was the only guy to hit over 60 HRs 4 times.
Three times.
1998, 1999, 2001.
He only hit 50 in 2000 (that was the year he was almost traded to the Yankees).
Anyway, these who’s-better arguments don’t mean much when you compare across eras. It gets even worse when the Steroid Era is part of the equation.
Sure
You can make an argument with Ernie. I never saw Ernie play either. But with Dawson you can’t make an argument. It’s not close.
Good god you are stupid
Dawson was not a better player than Sosa. And he certainly was not a better player than Sosa when Dawson was a Cub.
You are barely worth toying with
Dawson was at the end by the time Sosa was around.
Without the roids and playing at the same time Dawson did, there is no way Sosa puts up close to the same stats.
Here are some stats for you
As a Cub:
Sosa: 63.8 WAR
Dawson: 18.1 WAR
Dawson was in the tail-end of his career as a Cub. Sosa’s entire prime was as a Cub. It’s not close as to who was the better Cub.
BTW, Dawson is my favorite all-time Cub, so I am not biased in the least in this argument.
He is also my favorite. Along with Sandberg and Grace.
But I hope the last two are OK with you because they are white and the fans liked them.
You really struggle with reading comprehension
Sosa’s career w/ Cubs > Dawson’s career w/ Cubs. Dawson would not have made the HOF if he had played at the level he played with the Cubs his entire career.
If you want to include Dawson’s career w/ the Expos it is a much closer argument.
Dawson WAR:
1977 4.3 EXPOS
1978 3.8
1979 3.8
1980 6.1
1981 6.9
1982 7.3
1983 6.7
1984 2.7
1985 2.2
1986 2.5
1987 3.7 CUBS
1988 4.4
1989 2.1
1990 2.5
1991 2.6
1992 2.8
Actually, Dawson’s career with the Cubs really wasn’t any better than DLee’s.
I agree, JSB has a thing for Sosa.
Good for him. The Grinch like Jake Fox. Good for him.
But don’t play the race card to make your points for Sosa. It makes the rest of your arguments pointless.
I feel like i am talking to Milton Bradley.
How is my defense of Sosa
a guy that hit over 600 HRs even remotely comparable to a guy defending a AAAA player who signed an autograph for his kid?
I. will. talk. slowly. for. you.
Everyone, Has, a, favorite, player, and, will, defend, him. You, base, many, of, you, agrguments, based, on, racial, stuff. Fox, was, an, example, of, someone, else, on, here, really, liked. Do, you, need, a, definintion, of, an ,example?
You, are, amazing!
More HR does not make a better player.....
I wonder how many steroid lists Williams and Banks are on?
I don't give a s--- what everyone here thinks
I think a lot of people here have there head up there ass when it comes to Sosa.
So why will Dawson be in the Hall with Billy and Ernie and Sosa will not be?
Has nothing to do with the people here…..Try to give an intellegent answer.
Perhaps....
But as long as there was the perception he cheated he will not go in. McGwire and Bonds will go in first.
Sosa sure looked different when he was younger didn’t he, just like Mark and Barry. Their heads were much bigger all in one year during their career….Amazing! I am trying to remember the year Dawson came back looking like that……..wait can’t do it!
oneo f the biggest names in baseball
was guilty of using testerone, Babe Ruth. Others admitted to using spit ball and greenies but are in the HOF. Put the steroid users in and let future generations learn from the mess. Dont put any asterisk,etc on the plaque UNLESS they are willing to mark all other generations as well with their violations, etc.
i did a write up on this a while back giving my feelings and I stick to it.
Chronologically inept since 2060
"I could be writing this crap!" -- Crow T. Robot
years in the Cubs organization
I believe Ernie owns that one
Chronologically inept since 2060
"I could be writing this crap!" -- Crow T. Robot
Andre Dawson had class that Sammy could not even begin to think of.
Plus he hit in the clutch, was a good outfielder, and actually had control of his cannon arm.
There is no way I would rather have had Sosa over any of those men.
My eyes.....
Watching Sosa swing at a pitch in the LH batters box to end games more than I could count. Being happy when a dumb manager was dumb enough to walk Sosa to get to Grace.
Sosa did a lot of damage when the game did not matter.
Yeah
I guess that 2-run HR he hit in the bottom of the 9th in Game 1 of the Marlin series didn’t matter. I am sure all those HRs he hit in 1998 when he single-handedly dragged the Cubs to the playoffs were meaningless.
Of course he had a clutch HR here and there, But over most of his career he was not.
Most people thought Grace was actually the guy they wanted up in a clutch situation.
He did not have the power, but was a better hitter.
Sosa pretty much CARRIED the team in 2001 -- after Grace left.
Sosa was not considered a clutch hitter pre-1998. The following years are when he probably juiced, so take it for what it’s worth.
Sosa didn’t just pile up numbers in games that didn’t matter. He was a selfish jerk, a prima donna and almost certainly a juicer, but he did come up with quite a few clutch hits, TJ.
He had some clutch hits, but Elgato, tell me who you would have up in the bottom of the 9th?
Sosa, Banks, Williams, Grace, Dawson…..in order in the prime of their career?
Well ...
I didn’t watch Banks or Williams. They might be better bets, but I really don’t know.
As for the other three, Sosa wins, hands down. Dawson’s best year was for a last-place team. Grace was a very good player, but he just wasn’t as good as Sosa. An argument for Grace only works if you figure that a great deal of Sosa’s home runs and big hits came in meaningless situations, and that most of Grace’s hits were in meaningful situations.
And considering how many bad to mediocre teams Grace played for, I doubt that was the case.
Thank you!
I totally accept your opinion because that is what you believe and you didn’t need to use the race card to get there.
How did I use the race card to make my argument
This started because someone said that (paraphrase) “Cubs fans aren’t racist because Sosa …. were fan favorites.” I replied that Sosa wasn’t as much of a fan favorite as he should of been. You jumped in with your inane arguments that Sosa was a malcontent, never hit in the clutch etc. Proving my initial point that Sosa is not given the proper level of respect by the fans.
By what metric?
Grace was not a better hitter than Sosa. Some seasons he had a higher avg or obp, but over their career and especially in Sosa’s prime, he was the better hitter.
Sosa Career RISP: .910 OPS
Grace Career RISP: .850 OPS
Grace had more hits in the 10 year stretch in the 90's than Sosa did.
He made better contact, rarely struck out, and was a better overall hitter.
Grace 1989-2000 wasn't as good as Sosa
1993-2004.
You want to discount the pure numbers, fine
But even adjusted for era, Sosa was the better player. I also haven’t brought up HRs once. Sosa’s other stats are just fine.
I found it interesting that Sosa struck out 2306 times while Gace had 2445 hits.
Grace k’d only 642 times. That is ALOT of unproductive outs for Sosa.
Also Grace drove in 1146 runs, while Sosa drove in 1667 runs on
on 436 more HR. I wonder how many of those Rbi were Grace getting on in front of him since Grace batted 3rd most of his career. You know, where everyone but Lou knows you put your best hitter…
Nice try
K’s for a hitter aren’t really that big of a deal. If you look at all-time K leaders, there are plenty of HOFers up there. “Productive outs” are still outs. Try again.
Wow....
Believe what you want. There should have been MANY more RBI with that many HR.
Enjoy your little world.
It's amazing to me that Sosa drove in 119 runs ...
on the awful 1997 team but on 80 on the loaded 2004 team. The HR totals are comparable.
His RBI totals in 2002 and 2003 were decent, too.
Didn't he hit 6 in 2004?
His OBP and OPS w/ RISP weren’t awful: .346 and .826. I don’t know what happened. RBI isn’t always the most accurate stat.
He hit sixth for part of the season.
But third or fourth for (IIRC) at least half.
Actually ...
Grace usually hit fourth behind Sosa in the late 1990s and in 2000.
Yes he did for a couple of years....They were trying to protect Sosa.
Pitchers were not really scared of Henry Rodriguez….
Or Glenallen Hill.
But Sosa’s best years (other than 2001) happened with Grace hitting behind him. In other words, Grace getting on base didn’t (often) lead to Sosa RBIs. In fact, the opposite might be true.
wow rip apart my post why dont ya
Sosa – sounds like people are ripping on Hendry there…
Castro – does make alot of errors
Soto – showed up out of shape – why wouldnt you bitch about that
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Currently 34,839 on the Season Ticket Wait List - Expected age of being #0: 119
by hansman1982 on Aug 19, 2010 12:07 PM CDT up reply actions
ok but I was
referring to your comment – noone elses – which is why I hit reply to YOUR comment and noone elses – I dont care who was better – Sosa, Grace, Dawson, Williams, Banks, etc… its like asking how many home runs would the Babe hit today – impossible to know because these players were different players with different skills – and it appears to me that the common fan turns on players when they perform poorly or have a bad contract.
I just really hate that you brought race into all of this especially when people were pining for Lilly because he was still being highly productive wereas Lee was not.
Seriosuly take your crap elsewhere.
I Love Larry - Brick are you looking at random things around the room and saying that you love them - I Love Larry
Currently 34,839 on the Season Ticket Wait List - Expected age of being #0: 119
by hansman1982 on Aug 19, 2010 12:17 PM CDT up reply actions
Nah
The Lilly stuff was personal, not based on his performance.
All I know is that this race stuff is coming up too often for me to completely ignore it anymore. When Torii Hunter allegedly said he didn’t consider the Cubs because of the fans treatment of black players, I start to wonder if there might be something to it.
wow
you are claiming that a good portion of the fan base is racist on because of what someone “ALLEGEDLY” said. Damn white people being racists all the time…
I also enjoy how when a white player is loved it is solely because the fans are racist and so we cling to the Farnsworths, Dempsters (closer), Howrys, Hendrys and Miles of the world and love them with all of our hearts because we are just too damn racist.
Boo to you sir and I say good-day
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Currently 34,839 on the Season Ticket Wait List - Expected age of being #0: 119
by hansman1982 on Aug 19, 2010 12:27 PM CDT up reply actions
I didn't say they were racists
I said that when I hear a prominent player say that he didn’t want to come to the Cubs because of the past treatment of black players, that there might be a problem.
splitting hairs there
but whatever, this debate is going nowhere because neither of us are changing our minds – agree to disagree – unless you have something other than fans turning on players when they stop performing then I will resume this discussion
I Love Larry - Brick are you looking at random things around the room and saying that you love them - I Love Larry
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by hansman1982 on Aug 19, 2010 12:40 PM CDT up reply actions
their height?
The 2010 Randy Hundley Fantasy Camp ruled!!!!
by VegasCubFan on Aug 18, 2010 11:25 PM CDT up reply actions
Out of 6......
He was being paid to post 6 elite seasons.
The best defense is a good offense.....Lou Pinella...still hasn't managed the Cubs to a post season win. D. Lee still doesn't have a post seasson RBI for Cubs...ditto for Soriano
"It's so simple, it's unbelievable," manager Lou Piniella said. "When you score runs, you win."
Dusty Baker is the only manager in the last 100+ years to lead the Cubs to a post season series win....
"Take the hands off the clock, we're gong to be here a while"
Not really
Lee’s salaries:
2004 $6.2 million
2005 $7.7 million
2006 $9.4 million
2007 $13.3 million
2008 $13.3 million
2009 $13.3 million
2010 $13.3 million
As a benchmark elite 1B:
Mark Teixeira $20 million
Ryan Howard set to start making $20 million
Lee wasn’t an elite player the whole time he was here, but he provided more than enough bang for his buck. He was never paid like an elite player.
by JSB on Aug 18, 2010 8:57 PM CDT up reply actions 6 recs
Green'ed.
News flash! The Minnesota Vikings have moved their practice facility to Waffle House!
I didn't believe it last August, but it turns out that love survives.
Mount Washington conquered July 5, 2010! State high point count: 3/50
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Aug 18, 2010 9:06 PM CDT up reply actions
I'd like to know what the benchmark $$$ for 1B was in 2007.
The thing with first basemen is that the standard of production is much more than at any other position. Lee was (overall) an average production 1B, with well-above average defense. Much like Mark Grace, even if their offensive games weren’t quite the same.
by The Deputy Mayor of Rush Street on Aug 18, 2010 10:08 PM CDT up reply actions
While that's true
1B also make more on average than any other position as well. I wouldn’t argue that Lee was a bargain on his extension (pre-extension he was), but I do not think he was paid to be an elite hitter. Don’t forget that 2007 was about the peak of the market. That’s when Soriano, Zito and Z signed their big deals.
Carlos Lee was another big deal that year
Chronologically inept since 2060
"I could be writing this crap!" -- Crow T. Robot
Imagine what things would have been like if we'd signed him instead of Soriano.
I get the feeling he’d love playing at Wrigley 81 times per year. He enjoys being out there, from what I saw in July.
News flash! The Minnesota Vikings have moved their practice facility to Waffle House!
I didn't believe it last August, but it turns out that love survives.
Mount Washington conquered July 5, 2010! State high point count: 3/50
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Aug 18, 2010 10:16 PM CDT up reply actions
This year, yes.
His batting average has disappeared completely.
News flash! The Minnesota Vikings have moved their practice facility to Waffle House!
I didn't believe it last August, but it turns out that love survives.
Mount Washington conquered July 5, 2010! State high point count: 3/50
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Aug 18, 2010 10:19 PM CDT up reply actions
But it wuld have been fewer years
Soriano’s career phase as a millstone is starting and his contract still has 4yrs/$72M to run.
i wanted him
i was looking forward to Lee Rami Lee for the middle of the order
Chronologically inept since 2060
"I could be writing this crap!" -- Crow T. Robot
I think Grace is a good comp for Lee
Lee’s peak seasons (2005 and 2009) were above anything Grace put together, but they were both typically between 3.5 – 5.0 WAR players.
or 2004.....
I liked DL much as one may construe otherwise from my posts….he was just another example of Hendry overpaying for what he was getting…and the last couple of years his defense is WAY overrated….he had the worst range of any (regular) NL 1b man last year…can’t remember what service rated him that way…I believe CBS sports look up on him will cite the place.
In 08 he was missing 1/2 the year….Sorry @JSB…he was overpaid since 07….and his big years..05 and 09…where did that get the Cubs….???
The best defense is a good offense.....Lou Pinella...still hasn't managed the Cubs to a post season win. D. Lee still doesn't have a post seasson RBI for Cubs...ditto for Soriano
"It's so simple, it's unbelievable," manager Lou Piniella said. "When you score runs, you win."
Dusty Baker is the only manager in the last 100+ years to lead the Cubs to a post season series win....
"Take the hands off the clock, we're gong to be here a while"
i guess when I posted the UZR i was lying?
where Lee was shown to be better than what you are stating.
Chronologically inept since 2060
"I could be writing this crap!" -- Crow T. Robot
Where has anyone in the last 100 years gotten the Cubs?
It takes more than one guy having a fantastic season. You probably hate Ernie Banks too.
i wish he would post the stat he is using about Lee being the lowest ranked 1b
when I posted above the opposite of his statement in UZR/150.
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"I could be writing this crap!" -- Crow T. Robot
Here...
^ “MLB Player Fielding Stats – As 1b – 2009,” ESPN, accessed October 6, 2009
http://espn.go.com/mlb/stats/fielding/_/sort/rangeFactor/order/true
The best defense is a good offense.....Lou Pinella...still hasn't managed the Cubs to a post season win. D. Lee still doesn't have a post seasson RBI for Cubs...ditto for Soriano
"It's so simple, it's unbelievable," manager Lou Piniella said. "When you score runs, you win."
Dusty Baker is the only manager in the last 100+ years to lead the Cubs to a post season series win....
"Take the hands off the clock, we're gong to be here a while"
see below where i show Fangraphs which is more credible
with the stats and use his UZR/150 that shows Lee top 3 and top 6 not bottom of the barrel
Chronologically inept since 2060
"I could be writing this crap!" -- Crow T. Robot
and FWIW
RF completely ignores the Error, Arm ,and Double Play components of UZR
this could also help some with understanding UZR
Chronologically inept since 2060
"I could be writing this crap!" -- Crow T. Robot
From SI....
National League clubs looking for power without a DH make up eight of the 10 highest-paid first basemen. Nine of those make more than $10 million, with Colorado’s Todd Helton leading the way at $16.6 million.
Read more: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/multimedia/photo_gallery/0807/mlb.average.salaries.by.position/content.2.html#ixzz0x1CO5QWg
DL is a lot closer to the top in Salary than production…granted…TH is about as big of a bust as DL…but PooHole and RH have “similar” salary o DL…but produce way more…
The best defense is a good offense.....Lou Pinella...still hasn't managed the Cubs to a post season win. D. Lee still doesn't have a post seasson RBI for Cubs...ditto for Soriano
"It's so simple, it's unbelievable," manager Lou Piniella said. "When you score runs, you win."
Dusty Baker is the only manager in the last 100+ years to lead the Cubs to a post season series win....
"Take the hands off the clock, we're gong to be here a while"
According to that, Ramirez is the 2nd highest 3B in baseball
I’m surprised you’re not running around calling for his head too.
wait...
the link also goes into details about Jeff Kent of LAD….i disregard that link for a conversation about a 2010 DLee
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"I could be writing this crap!" -- Crow T. Robot
how old is the link?
Mike Hampton, Tim Hudson, and John Smoltz give the Braves three of the 10 highest-paid pitchers. Smoltz, along with Mariano Rivera, is one of only two relievers in the top 10 among pitchers.
Manny Ramirez is the highest-paid outfielder ($18.9 million), and the highest-paid player in the league not wearing Yankee pinstripes (behind Alex Rodriguez, Jason Giambi, and Derek Jeter). The Red Sox (Ramirez and J.D. Drew) and Angels (Torii Hunter and Vlad Guerrero) each have two players among the top 10 highest-paid outfielders.
Chronologically inept since 2060
"I could be writing this crap!" -- Crow T. Robot
I'm just glad that we aren't the ones paying Jeff Kent $9 million this year
Oh wait, what’s that you say, he retired in 2008. Never mind.
says nothing about your t that Lee has the worst range at 1B
please provide that, since i have shown that yo be incorrect.
Also, that ONE paragraph on SI is not much proof to support your statement that Lee was over paid.
SI also says on there Rami is second highest paid, and three of ten at 3B highest paid are in the NL, so does that mean that they are paid to produce to the AL standards not the NL? Notes that three catchers are making over $10m a season as well, so that means that a catcher doesnt have to care about hitting? I am sorry, that link does hold much water for a debate with a two or three sentence throw together. Your post without the SI link gives more
Chronologically inept since 2060
"I could be writing this crap!" -- Crow T. Robot
says nothing about your t that Lee has the worst range at 1B
please provide that, since i have shown that yo be incorrect.
http://espn.go.com/mlb/stats/fielding/_/sort/rangeFactor/order/true
by jesus christos on Aug 18, 2010 10:32 PM CDT up reply actions
first off
look at fangraphs, which is much better with this and they have Lee at 2 for his UZR/150
over the past 3 seasons, they show him as #3 in the NL and #6 for MLB over that same time
Chronologically inept since 2060
"I could be writing this crap!" -- Crow T. Robot
Regardless....
I’ll miss him because the Cubs really don’t have any better options there…
The best defense is a good offense.....Lou Pinella...still hasn't managed the Cubs to a post season win. D. Lee still doesn't have a post seasson RBI for Cubs...ditto for Soriano
"It's so simple, it's unbelievable," manager Lou Piniella said. "When you score runs, you win."
Dusty Baker is the only manager in the last 100+ years to lead the Cubs to a post season series win....
"Take the hands off the clock, we're gong to be here a while"
i think we all agree with that statement
and i enjoyed some good conversation, glad to see that BCB can provide that without it becoming WW3 like it does too often when two posters dont agree
Chronologically inept since 2060
"I could be writing this crap!" -- Crow T. Robot
Yup, his time has come
Hopefully the Cubs will get better production out of 1st base and the 3 hole next year.
...and sorry about the out of date salary info....
Just came across it looking for the defense stat I was remembering and didn’t really check it out closely…
The best defense is a good offense.....Lou Pinella...still hasn't managed the Cubs to a post season win. D. Lee still doesn't have a post seasson RBI for Cubs...ditto for Soriano
"It's so simple, it's unbelievable," manager Lou Piniella said. "When you score runs, you win."
Dusty Baker is the only manager in the last 100+ years to lead the Cubs to a post season series win....
"Take the hands off the clock, we're gong to be here a while"
happens to the best of us
dont sweat it.
Chronologically inept since 2060
"I could be writing this crap!" -- Crow T. Robot
Ugh
We have had this argument before. You can’t compare salaries of different aged players and say one is overpaid and one is not. Howard is still in his arbitration years, that is why he is paid less than Lee. As soon as he hits his free agent years he will make more than Lee. And for the record, despite his home runs, he really isn’t that much better a player than Lee. Since 2004, Howard has put up 23.0 WAR. Lee has put up 25.2.
Pujols (a) is one of the biggest bargains in baseball and likely took a hometown discount; and (b) was under team control when he signed his deal.
didnt Howard sign an extension for something insane?
yup 5 years $125M
Chronologically inept since 2060
"I could be writing this crap!" -- Crow T. Robot
its an insane contract IMHO
Chronologically inept since 2060
"I could be writing this crap!" -- Crow T. Robot
really puts Soriano's
contract to shame…runs out in 2016 (club option in 2017) and more $$$
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howard is currently making
$18 million a year per baseball-reference.com
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Again, somewhat apples to oranges.
Pujols got his deal in ’04, plus that was an early extension that bought out all of his arbitration years. So Pujols gave up making more these last couple of seasons for the lifetime security of a 7/$100m contract – signed when he was making $900,000.
To fairly determine if Lee was overpaid when he extended in 2007, you have to compare him to what the market was when the deal was done.
by The Deputy Mayor of Rush Street on Aug 18, 2010 10:35 PM CDT up reply actions
Fangraphs would disagree with you
I’m not sure what to say. I know you think he underachieved, but aside from 2006 (when he was injured), that just isn’t the case. Elite free agent 1B have made more than $13.3 million/season for quite some time. Over the course of his Cubs career, Lee was a good value, even including an injury-shortened year (2006) and a partial year (2010).
Value Salary WAR
2004 $9.9 $6.2 3.2
2005 $26.0 $7.7 7.6
2006 $2.9 $9.4 0.8
2007 $15.9 $13.3 3.9
2008 $15.0 $13.3 3.3
2009 $24.0 $13.3 5.3
2010 $4.3 $13.3 1.1
Total $98 $76.2
Looking at average salaries at a position
Is usually a fruitless exercise, especially at big money positions like 1st. Guys in their first few years making the minimum really skew the results.
Fangraphs doesn't use average salaries when computing value
They use what 1 WAR cost on the free agent market that year.
I know
I was just responding more in general to KC’s premise, where he was comparing average salaries.
I didn't click on the link
That’s why I was confused about the average salary thing. Silly me for thinking that an SI slideshow wasn’t going to have a whole lot to shed on the DLee is overpaid argument.
but can they replace the towel drill?
Straw Drill in the bullpen?
Chronologically inept since 2060
"I could be writing this crap!" -- Crow T. Robot
I agree
Lee was a deal for his entire time here
I Love Larry - Brick are you looking at random things around the room and saying that you love them - I Love Larry
Currently 34,839 on the Season Ticket Wait List - Expected age of being #0: 119
by hansman1982 on Aug 19, 2010 12:28 PM CDT up reply actions
Can anyone give me more details on how Diamond
pitched today? What was his velocity at on the fastball? What was he getting hitters out with. I think he has potential to be a decent middle reliever with his stuff.
Disappointing that there were only 1,500 people in the bleachers, I figured this crowd would be small though. I’ll be out there tomorrow, looking forward to it.
"You've got to get your damn shirts rolled up and go out and kick somebody's ass. That's what you've got to do. Period." -- Lou Piniella
Diamond...
… hit 91 a couple times. If he can get that velocity a little higher with some movement, he could be a useful reliever, possibly.
If you’re in the bleachers tomorrow, please stop by and say hi.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
Thanks for the info on Diamond...
…I agree he needs to get up to 92-93 to be slightly more effective. For some reason I see him as a possible middle reliever, he reminds me of Joe Borowski, but without that good slider. I’ll be in the bleachers for sure, might have overpaid for the tickets, but still only paid half of face. I’ll find you and say hello.
"You've got to get your damn shirts rolled up and go out and kick somebody's ass. That's what you've got to do. Period." -- Lou Piniella
Sounds good.
The Borowski comp might be very accurate.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
If the ball moves late, he can make a living at 86-88 - it's been done
I wonder if that is part of Cashner’s problem – he is overthrowing to get more on the pitch and generating straight pitches. 97-98 doesn’t impress Major League hitters if they can sit on that pitch.
I think DLee will like Atlanta
Like Florida, he’ll be with a winning club in a relatively low-key atmosphere. Made sense for the Braves to acquire him.
I'll go to my grave believing Armando Galarraga tossed the 21st perfect game in MLB history.
does this make up for McGriff?
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"I could be writing this crap!" -- Crow T. Robot
According to Talking Chop... the SBN Braves blog...
… Lee will wear #27 for Atlanta, the same # McGriff wore there.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
FWIW
If any of you saw a guy wearing a green shirt that looked like the scoreboard clock on the CSN telecast, that was me. A CSN producer came up to me in the bleachers and asked me where I got the shirt.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
One of the street vendors near the corner of Addison & Sheffield.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
and will that be the next BCB charity shirt?
Chronologically inept since 2060
"I could be writing this crap!" -- Crow T. Robot
Rickett's Mezzanine Suite
I’m assuming you were sitting right behind home plate? I had a vendor work outing last September and I think I was right next to that box. I peered around divider and there was Jim Hendry in the next suite.
"They come to see me strike out, hit a home run, or run into a fence. I try to accommodate them at least one way every game." - Gorman Thomas
by RiskyBusiness on Aug 18, 2010 11:11 PM CDT up reply actions
Al, did you ask Mr. Ricketts about Hendry and whether we'd be players in the free agent market next year?
"Any player who gets the opportunity to play at Wrigley should welcome it"
Al were you or were you not
asked to be the naked body sushi model in Tom’s suite?
We can't win at home. We can't win on the road. I just can't figure out where else to play!
-- Pat Williams
by Fat Punk Kicker on Aug 18, 2010 6:58 PM CDT reply actions
I will take that as a maybe
We can't win at home. We can't win on the road. I just can't figure out where else to play!
-- Pat Williams
by Fat Punk Kicker on Aug 19, 2010 9:40 AM CDT up reply actions
;(
I’m just sad to see Lee leave. I know he’s not producing this year, but he was a hell of a Cub. He leaves Chicago with a lot of good memories, and he was one of the first players to take us to two division titles in a row since the early 1900s. Though his bat and glove have declined, he has always been a stellar person both on and off the field with his class and calm attitude toward the game. I’m gonna miss him because he was one of the first players I truly followed as a Cub. All that are really left from the early 2000s are Ramirez and Zambrano; both who may be gone after next year.
I think it’s safe to say the current face of the franchise is gone.
Viva la Cubs Révolution!!!
Funny story
Back in 2006, I was still a pretty young person. I made the trek up to Washington, DC to see the Cubs take on the Nationals. I was pretty excited, knowing that it was my second MLB game, and that I was going to sit right behind the dugout! When I arrived at the game, I stood near the dugout, a ball and pen in my hand, waiting for someone to sign it. I wanted Greg Maddux to sign it, but I didn’t see him. However, I quickly saw Derrek Lee making his way over to me! When he approached, I rolled the ball over the dugout to make sure it got to him. To my bad luck, it glanced off the dugout and into the stands, and Lee responded to me laughing saying, “oh boy, that was weak!” I laughed back too and we exchanged a few words. I was looking around for my ball, and Lee told me he was going to sign it. I never got it back in time for him to sign, but the memory of speaking with Derrek Lee at such an early age…boy was I excited!!
So yes, I’m kinda sad to see him leave. At least he goes to my second favorite NL team now.
Viva la Cubs Révolution!!!
That's better than I got
from Bill Buckner when I was young and wanted his autograph. “Sorry kid, I have to take batting practice.”
"They found a delivery in my flaw." - Dan Quisenberry
As I have learned from Jerry Seinfeld
(and have said too many times) Root for the laundry, not the players that wear the laundry.
The laundry always sticks around. Players come and go.
by San Diego Smooth Jazz Man on Aug 18, 2010 7:18 PM CDT up reply actions
Not that there's anything wrong with it....
;-)
I'll go to my grave believing Armando Galarraga tossed the 21st perfect game in MLB history.
I would like to see if Ramirez could play 1b
Better to experiment with that than give Hoffpauir unnecessary abs
Viva la Cubs Révolution!!!
Knowing Lou,
It will probably be Fontenot at 3B and DeWitt at 2B, with Ramirez at 1B.
This would be keeping with Lou’s natural tendencies.
News flash! The Minnesota Vikings have moved their practice facility to Waffle House!
I didn't believe it last August, but it turns out that love survives.
Mount Washington conquered July 5, 2010! State high point count: 3/50
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Aug 18, 2010 7:30 PM CDT up reply actions
Okay, I admit I laughed.
News flash! The Minnesota Vikings have moved their practice facility to Waffle House!
I didn't believe it last August, but it turns out that love survives.
Mount Washington conquered July 5, 2010! State high point count: 3/50
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Aug 18, 2010 7:34 PM CDT up reply actions
but he's serious...
"Wait, are you saying I'm a sunshine-pumping, koolaid-drinking, Soriano-loving, rainbow-rising, unicorn-riding, double-clutching, Sweet Lou-backing, Hendry-supporting, hey hey whaddya saying, Cubs are going all the waying, glass is overflowing, Rothschild is all-knowing, Cubs fan? - ballhawk
I know.
I laughed at the messup in my post (Fontenot playing at 3B for the Cubs).
News flash! The Minnesota Vikings have moved their practice facility to Waffle House!
I didn't believe it last August, but it turns out that love survives.
Mount Washington conquered July 5, 2010! State high point count: 3/50
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Aug 18, 2010 8:27 PM CDT up reply actions
Whoops!
Let’s try this again.
3B: Baker
2B: DeWitt
1B: Ramirez
News flash! The Minnesota Vikings have moved their practice facility to Waffle House!
I didn't believe it last August, but it turns out that love survives.
Mount Washington conquered July 5, 2010! State high point count: 3/50
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Aug 18, 2010 7:33 PM CDT up reply actions
Were getting back Mike!
Oh happy day!
by Dcr18 on Aug 18, 2010 7:33 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
I think
Either one will grow tiresome pretty soon
"Wait, are you saying I'm a sunshine-pumping, koolaid-drinking, Soriano-loving, rainbow-rising, unicorn-riding, double-clutching, Sweet Lou-backing, Hendry-supporting, hey hey whaddya saying, Cubs are going all the waying, glass is overflowing, Rothschild is all-knowing, Cubs fan? - ballhawk
I suspect Jeff Baker will not be a Cub in 2011.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
Didn't ARam play a little 1B early in his career with the Pirates?
I believe it was when he was hurt.
I think we will see Nady everyday now at 1B.
Jim’s next job is to get Nady to a contender!
nelson cruz is hurt again
the rangers might still have interest
by jesus christos on Aug 18, 2010 7:37 PM CDT up reply actions
but who bats 3rd then?
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TJ
You deserve to be with a contender!!!
"Wait, are you saying I'm a sunshine-pumping, koolaid-drinking, Soriano-loving, rainbow-rising, unicorn-riding, double-clutching, Sweet Lou-backing, Hendry-supporting, hey hey whaddya saying, Cubs are going all the waying, glass is overflowing, Rothschild is all-knowing, Cubs fan? - ballhawk
you mean the Cubs arent?
i think these moves Hendry has made have 2010 WS written all over them
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The next game Aramis Ramirez plays at 1B will be his first.
He has played only 3B in the major leagues (and a few at DH).
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
So Hendry, I think I speak for all of us when I say
SIGN ADAM DUNN IN THE OFFSEASON!!!
Viva la Cubs Révolution!!!
not this year
If knowledge is the key, then just show me the lock.
Got the scrawny legs but I move just like Lou Brock.
i dont agree with that
a good glove saves enough errors and runs. Grace / JT Snow are prime examples of that type of player. They were not HR threats, but you knew if the ball was close to them it was an out (even with Dunston throwing all over the place to grace)
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i will agree to disagree.
we have put up HRs a lot over the seasons and have nothing to show. I dont need 1998 all over again. HRs during the season seem to fade in October
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Grace was a better player than people give him credit for
Although he never hit a ton of HRs, he was a doubles machine. Even though he never hit more than 16 HRs, he slugged over .450 more often than not. Add in great on-base skills and great defense. He was basically a 3.5 – 5.0 WAR player for about 10 years.
Defensively maybe
Offensively, absolutely not
by HuskerCorner on Aug 18, 2010 9:31 PM CDT up reply actions
I agree
No Dunn.
"Wait, are you saying I'm a sunshine-pumping, koolaid-drinking, Soriano-loving, rainbow-rising, unicorn-riding, double-clutching, Sweet Lou-backing, Hendry-supporting, hey hey whaddya saying, Cubs are going all the waying, glass is overflowing, Rothschild is all-knowing, Cubs fan? - ballhawk
i could do without Dunn
his glove and strike outs outweigh his Hrs and walks IMHO. We complain about Rami or Soriano striking out, what would happen with Dunn doing that at a higher rate?
Dunn 148 k’s in 2010
Soriano 95 k’s in 2010
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Despite the Ks
Dunn is a much better hitter than Soriano today. But will he be better than this year’s version of Soriano in 3 years? That’s why I am against it.
might as well be Soriano at 1B if the goal is to put Dunn there
neither IMHO should be there. Dunn is best suited as a DH somewhere
Dunn does not look good in his 300+ games at 1B
Career UZR/150 for Dunn by position played kill what he gives you at the plate
1B -15.7
LF-11.2
RF -52.6
OF -13.3
and his WAR is a 3.4
Soriano WAR is 2.7 so we are talking about less than 1 game difference.
Soriano UZR/150
2B -8.9
LF14.8
CF13.7
OF 14.9
if it is true defense wins championships, I know who I feel more comfortable with in the line up
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however
looking at baseball-reference he has greatly improved at 1b this year over previous years – he did have a couple atrocious years there – linky. I still dont like his K rate but after digging deeper I do feel more comfortable that he would be acceptable at about a $10-15 million discount to one of the big boys…
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oh god yes
and dunn k’s at a rate near 200 a season…no thanks
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by hansman1982 on Aug 19, 2010 11:32 AM CDT up reply actions
I have no idea
what kind of stats he puts up – I would rather sign Lee to a 1 year deal and try for one of the big boys after next year than have dunn
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by hansman1982 on Aug 19, 2010 12:43 PM CDT up reply actions
After a year like this one ...
you don’t want to mix things up?
I do
I am just saying what I would rather do than sign the K machine to a 3-4 year deal with a NTC and backloaded to no end…
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I have a lot of respect for Lee's effort and contributions during his career here
But frankly I’m always happy to see good players get an opportunity to be in a pennant chase and win a title. It wasn’t going to happen here and I’m glad Derek will get a shot with ATL
We had shot at Dunn.
Two years ago. But Hendry preferred Milton Bradley,
"All I'm asking for is what I want." -- Ricky Henderson
dunn in the OF is a circus
soriano, fukudome, and dunn in the OF is a three ring circus
by jesus christos on Aug 18, 2010 7:50 PM CDT up reply actions
I still don't know if Dome's going to be here next year.
I wonder if that will be Soriano/Byrd/Dunn if that happens.
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by Vermont Cubs Fan on Aug 18, 2010 7:52 PM CDT up reply actions
and the same fear i had was that OF and watching how fast records were set for errors
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Won't it be Soriano, Byrd, Colvin?
Why would Dunn go to the outfield?
If knowledge is the key, then just show me the lock.
Got the scrawny legs but I move just like Lou Brock.
he was talking about 2009
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gotcha
If knowledge is the key, then just show me the lock.
Got the scrawny legs but I move just like Lou Brock.
Dunn at 1b is less of a disaster, however
If knowledge is the key, then just show me the lock.
Got the scrawny legs but I move just like Lou Brock.
Don't undersell 1B defense.
It affects the whole infield. Granted that Lee’s defense, like his hitting, hasn’t been up to par this year. But, more to the point, DLee’s defensive lapses have affected others, especially Ramirez, and even Theriot and Fontenot before they left.
"All I'm asking for is what I want." -- Ricky Henderson
by sweetswinger on Aug 18, 2010 8:21 PM CDT up reply actions
simply put no
Dunn UZR/150 at 1B -15.7
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we'll see
he’s looked better at the position this year
If knowledge is the key, then just show me the lock.
Got the scrawny legs but I move just like Lou Brock.
may I ask what you are basing that on
since here are the UZR/150 for 1b from fangraphs where he ranks 18
Name UZR/150
Justin Morneau 1B 16.8
Ike Davis 1B 12.9
Daric Barton 1B 10.4
Adrian Gonzalez 1B 5.5
Casey Kotchman 1B 8.4
Lance Berkman 1B 6.8
Joey Votto 1B 5
Lyle Overbay 1B 4.3
Derrek Lee 1B 3.6
Albert Pujols 1B 1.7
Kevin Youkilis 1B 2.2
James Loney 1B 1.4
Billy Butler 1B 1.2
Justin Smoak 1B 1.4
Gaby Sanchez 1B 0.2
Carlos Pena 1B 0.2
Adam Dunn 1B -1.3
Adam LaRoche 1B -1.6
Miguel Cabrera 1B -7.5
Prince Fielder 1B -7.9
Mark Teixeira 1B -7.3
Ryan Howard 1B -9.5
Troy Glaus 1B -12.9
Paul Konerko 1B -13.8
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Another great post. Thank you for doing my homework.
Those numbers at the bottom are quite interesting though.
two at the bottom are more age than lack of defense
i wqas surprised to see Teixera, Fielder and Howard
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Right, just minus a single run
It’s a good deal better than how he’s been. He’s never going to be a plus defender but he hasn’t been a complete butcher. We’ll see if he keeps that up, considering how volatile single season defensive metrics are. Not having to split time in the outfield has helped, however.
If knowledge is the key, then just show me the lock.
Got the scrawny legs but I move just like Lou Brock.
I jsut dont see him being worth a damn at 1B
and would rather go after someone who actually is a 1B. I am not saying that you are wrong for your opinion, just that I disagree and have shown why.
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FWIW
Fangraphs Scouting Report on Dunn might have said it best
1. Tired Dunn Talking Point A: Despite strikeout numbers that make traditionalists cringe, Adam Dunn is an outstanding hitter, sporting a .398 wOBA since 2008.
2. Tired Dunn Talking Point B: Despite being a tremendous hitter, Dunn’s defense both in the outfield and at first base, according to defensive metrics as well as scouting reports, is so dreadful that it seriously compromises his overall value, particularly in the NL where he cannot be DHed.
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Look at your list
Who among the better fielders also has a comparable bat and is available? I’m not a massive fand of Dunn at 1B, but even the “Wait Until 2012” plan needs someone at 1B by then. And Fielder is worse on the bag than Dunn and the Padres may lock up Gonzalez if they win their division this year.
i guess a lot of that depends on what the value is
you have said HRs > fielding, which i disagree with. IMHO 1B needs to be a glove first and foremost. Castro is young and wild so far, and I want him to have someone he can throw to who wont miss the throw in the dirt, and knows how to come off the bag and make a swipe tag (for two examples).
Now who all is available this offseason, we wont know until later. None of us knows who will be nontendered, or available in a trade (who here would have thought Lee was available for Hee Sop Choi?)
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It's amazing to me that this is the first year they've figured out to STOP PLAYING ADAM DUNN IN THE OUTFIELD
he’s played at least 500 innings there since 2002 and has been uniformly terrible at the position, losing 90 runs of value over his career. Now that he’s a full time 1B, he’s lost only .8 runs of value through defense and put together a solid 3 WAR year.
If knowledge is the key, then just show me the lock.
Got the scrawny legs but I move just like Lou Brock.
what i find amazing is he has not gone to the AL to DH
he would be more valuable that way, kinda like Frank Thomas was.
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I would agree that it would be the best fit going forward for him
although this year the positional adjustment to DH would be more damaging than his defense at 1B
If knowledge is the key, then just show me the lock.
Got the scrawny legs but I move just like Lou Brock.
Adam Dunn's defense plus positional adjustment this season is worth -9 runs
if he had played all season at DH, it would be worth -12.5 runs
If knowledge is the key, then just show me the lock.
Got the scrawny legs but I move just like Lou Brock.
Dunn has said in interviews....
he still wants to be a position player and isn’t sure he wants to switch to being a DH. My guess is an AL team would have to make him an offer he couldn’t refuse.
"Pinky, are you pondering what I'm pondering?"--The Brain
and Soriano wanted to still lead off
sadly you cant always get what you want in baseball
I bet the Yankees and BoSox could make such an offer
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You have a say in getting what you want when you're a free agent though
And I’m guessing some NL team (ourselves included) will offer him a spot at 1B.
Dag gummit!
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by Vermont Cubs Fan on Aug 18, 2010 7:51 PM CDT up reply actions
You don't even know the foocking bwllshyt he's saying tonight.
Things like “throw at his head, Gavin!”
Let me get this straight.
Harrelson is calling for Gavin Floyd to bean the Minnesota Twins’ batter? To say that’s overboard would be an understatement.
News flash! The Minnesota Vikings have moved their practice facility to Waffle House!
I didn't believe it last August, but it turns out that love survives.
Mount Washington conquered July 5, 2010! State high point count: 3/50
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Aug 18, 2010 7:57 PM CDT up reply actions
Harrelson is the anti-Derrek Lee
ZERO class.
I'll go to my grave believing Armando Galarraga tossed the 21st perfect game in MLB history.
Makes you wonder how he still has a job.
He makes Joe Morgan sound good, and that’s saying something.
News flash! The Minnesota Vikings have moved their practice facility to Waffle House!
I didn't believe it last August, but it turns out that love survives.
Mount Washington conquered July 5, 2010! State high point count: 3/50
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Aug 18, 2010 8:24 PM CDT up reply actions
D Lee
A real class individual who gave his all i9n his own way every way. I was at the game where he broke his wrist and knew right there that he would be lucky to ever be the same and he wasn’t. Neverthe less he never stopped trying and was a joy to watch play his position and at the plate when he was right.
I’m sure most Cub fans wish him success and hope his little daughter is sucessfully treated for her eye problems.
We’ll miss u D
I'm sorry if this has already been posted but just wondering
what Cubs pitchers stats were for the first inning alone? How many runs, hits, BB, or anything else have they had against them? Everytime I see a recap or look at the final score, almost always it says 1-4 runs in the first inning alone. Just curious if anyone knew.
Didn't see it coming
I guess at this point, all I can say is that I hope there’s another trade or two that we don’t expect.
It never gets to be easy
Neither did someone else
Prediction
This won’t happen.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
posted by Al Yellon on Aug 18, 2010 9:47 AM EDT
WWOZ.org - New Orleans Jazz and Heritage Station
by Gibbon Jockey on Aug 18, 2010 9:57 PM CDT up reply actions
Wait.
That was today? Wasn’t that in regard to the Ramirez deal?
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
i thought that was in regards to trading you for Muskat
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Not sure what that is in regard to.
I guess you guys will have to figure out for yourselves.
News flash! The Minnesota Vikings have moved their practice facility to Waffle House!
I didn't believe it last August, but it turns out that love survives.
Mount Washington conquered July 5, 2010! State high point count: 3/50
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Aug 18, 2010 10:28 PM CDT up reply actions
It looks like that sub-thread comes from a reply fail,
But I can’t figure out exactly where the reply fail is from.
News flash! The Minnesota Vikings have moved their practice facility to Waffle House!
I didn't believe it last August, but it turns out that love survives.
Mount Washington conquered July 5, 2010! State high point count: 3/50
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Aug 18, 2010 10:34 PM CDT up reply actions
Just scroll up a bit and you'll see a comment about Kaplan's tweet re: DLee trade
So it would seem that Al’s comment was indeed regarding DLee not ARam, and my recollection was wrong.
Give Gibbon Jockey the X

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All in the Game, Yo.
All in the game.
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by Gibbon Jockey on Aug 18, 2010 11:33 PM CDT up reply actions
thats some good pitching
oh, wait…….
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ISWYDT
Well played, sir.
News flash! The Minnesota Vikings have moved their practice facility to Waffle House!
I didn't believe it last August, but it turns out that love survives.
Mount Washington conquered July 5, 2010! State high point count: 3/50
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Aug 18, 2010 9:58 PM CDT up reply actions
what i have learned today
Get into a fight with Z in the dugout….and u get a ticket out of town. Z must have some great pictures of someone.
by cozmotaylor123 on Aug 18, 2010 10:04 PM CDT via mobile reply actions
No
just a lot of money owed to him. Can’t get rid of him.
"In order to have a winner, the team must have a feeling of unity; every player must put the team first- ahead of personal glory" - motivational sign at Halas Hall.
well then hopefully
Z gets in a fight with himself, Soriano and Fukudome
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by hansman1982 on Aug 19, 2010 11:55 AM CDT up reply actions
Mr. Lee
It was a pleasure having you in a Cubbie uniform for seven years. I hope you and the Braves make the playoffs, and that you have a direct impact on the outcome. Here, here.
"In order to have a winner, the team must have a feeling of unity; every player must put the team first- ahead of personal glory" - motivational sign at Halas Hall.
could it come down to Wood vs Lee bottom of the 9th in the WS?
if so, uniform being worn not taken into consideration, who do we root for?
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I cheer for Woody Lee.
News flash! The Minnesota Vikings have moved their practice facility to Waffle House!
I didn't believe it last August, but it turns out that love survives.
Mount Washington conquered July 5, 2010! State high point count: 3/50
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Aug 18, 2010 10:10 PM CDT up reply actions
yikes we could see
Lee vs Lilly with the winner meeting Wood
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Why stop there?
Don’t forget Dusty and Fontenot too
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
i dont see Dusty in the batters box while Fonty makes his pitchign debut in october
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We root for Marlon Byrd.
Oh wait.
News flash! The Minnesota Vikings have moved their practice facility to Waffle House!
I didn't believe it last August, but it turns out that love survives.
Mount Washington conquered July 5, 2010! State high point count: 3/50
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Aug 18, 2010 10:18 PM CDT up reply actions
Theriot TOOTBLAN in Los Angeles (I'm watching on ESPN).
With two outs, caught stealing second.
News flash! The Minnesota Vikings have moved their practice facility to Waffle House!
I didn't believe it last August, but it turns out that love survives.
Mount Washington conquered July 5, 2010! State high point count: 3/50
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Aug 18, 2010 10:17 PM CDT reply actions
Good luck, DLee.
I was extremely critical of Derrek when he rejected the trade to the Angels. I later toned down those comments, but I still wondered if he was content to increase his value playing every day for a bad team rather than making a run at a title.
It’s funny that his decision to leave actually makes me like him more. Whether he just didn’t buy the Angels as contenders, whether the Cubs got real bad real fast or something else, his decision to waive his no-trade protection shows he still has the competitive fire. And I questioned that last month.
I’ll remember Lee as a member of some of the happiest and saddest moments of my time as a Cubs fan. He was part of the horror that was the ’04 collapse. He was a reason to watch the 2005 team. His injury killed the 2006 season, but he came back and helped the Cubs get to the playoffs two years in a row. He also was fantastic in 2009.
He had a bad, bad year, and I don’t think he’s got much left in the tank. But I tip my hat to him for his time here. I’ll probably be rooting for Lilly and the Dodgers or Wood and the Yankees, but I want to see Derrek Lee do well.
Aramis and Zambrano are still around, but trading Lee is arguably the biggest sign that the Cubs are transitioning between eras. And, all affection for Lee aside, I think that’s the right thing to do. We need to rebuild and try this thing again.
And, honestly, I think DLee gets that. For the Cubs and for him, it’s time to turn the page.
by elgato on Aug 18, 2010 10:17 PM CDT reply actions 8 recs
For once, you and I are in complete agreement.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
Did the Germans quit when they bombed Pearl Harbor?
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by Gibbon Jockey on Aug 18, 2010 11:34 PM CDT up reply actions
I agree with a lot of what you have to say
I didn’t fault Lee for refusing to go to the Angels. It just didn’t make a lot of sense to me (fringe contender, completely brand new league, young burgeoning star on the mend) for him to go there. Frankly, I thought the fact that Cubs fans were willing to trash a player who had done so much for the club because they wanted a fringy prospect was disappointing.
In the end it all worked out. Lee gets to go to a legitimate contender, and the Cubs get 3 prospects. I am rooting harder for Lee than either Lilly or Wood. Mainly because I don’t think he got nearly the credit he deserved for his 2005 and 2009 seasons.
Agreed, with one caveat.
I frankly don’t buy the “new league” defense at all. The Cubs played AL West teams in interleague this year, so Lee should be familiar with most of the pitchers in that division. Further, with interleague play and free agency, I don’t think switching leagues is that big of an adjustment — certainly not what it was a generation ago.
As I said in my post last night, I think it came down to not buying the Angels as contenders and the Cubs getting really bad really fast. Oh, and Lee seemed super-excited to play for Bobby Cox. I wonder if he admired the Braves’ success as a Marlin?
But you’re right. It all worked out, so a lot of these questions are somewhat irrelevant. Good luck, Derrek!
Something missing?
Is it possible that Lee maybe had a problem with Mike Scoscia or someone else in LA?
"I lof to hit de home ron!"
I think he didn't want to go to the AL for a team that was barely in the race
Changing leagues is a fairly big transition.
I really disagree on that JSB.
But whatever. Small potatoes.
Goodbye to one of the classiest players we've had since Ernie Banks.
I never got the feeling that he was dogging it. I wish him and his family only the best. The folks who say he gives us someone to cheer for in the playoffs are right.
I agree with elgato that this is “the biggest sign that the Cubs are transitioning between eras.” It saddens me. At least the last three years, baseball was exciting until near the end of the season because we were in it (I know, not so much last year, but there was still some buzz in August). Now it feels like one of those old awful seasons where I still follow what happens to the Cubs (I deeply enjoyed taking the series from the Cardinals), but know it’s pretty meaningless to us.
Heavy Sigh!!
I look forward to a resurgence towards a new level that is maintained because the Ricketts family (1) wants to win, not just make money (if they give us a winner, I personally promise to line their pockets with filthy lucre), but because they are Cub fans like us, and (2) because they are building a solid organization with a strong farm system, that’ll feed us players continually. I’m a little tired of this spending spree stuff on FA’s that rarely fulfill their promise for more than a year or so.
IF IT TAKES FOREVER!!
by Cubfansince1957 on Aug 18, 2010 10:58 PM CDT up reply actions 3 recs
Wow, did I write this night before going to bed?
I was going to write a post that expressed these sentiments almost verbatim. Well written and recommended.
Best of luck Mr. Lee.
We have met the enemy and they are us! ~ Walt Kelly, Pogo, 1971
you've said it all for me, cat
except I’m not sure I can root for the Yankees or Dodgers….all the best to DLee.
"Well-behaved women seldom make History"---Laurel Thatcher Ulrich
by cooliogirl47 on Aug 19, 2010 9:35 AM CDT up reply actions
Thanks, cooliogirl.
I know what you mean about the Yankees and the Dodgers. But I’ll root for both of them over the Cardinals or the Reds any day of the week.
This is one of
the nicest comments I’ve seen from you about Derrek. Well done.
A lovely story:
One day, long, long ago, there lived a woman who didn't whine, nag or bitch. That would be me....
But that was a long time ago and it was just that one day.
The end
Pretty decent for a teenage girl, right? :)
Just kidding, sue. Thanks for the compliment.
As for the little spat yesterday, I’ll forget about it if you will.
Sad to see DLee go he was a great player for the Cubs and did it with class
Good Luck Derek! Now I have another burning question: Why isn’t Colvin playing?
"Any player who gets the opportunity to play at Wrigley should welcome it"
I get that but doesn't he get a chance to work out of it?
He did have a couple of big hits vs. the Giants and it would be nice to know what he’s made of going into next year.
"Any player who gets the opportunity to play at Wrigley should welcome it"
I figure he probably will soon
With Kosuke playing well this month, they probably want to showcase him as well. Wouldn’t kill anyone if Soriano took a few days off so Colvin could play right, though.
Agreed, he at least deserves to play most days between RF & LF
now that Nady is playing 1st base.
"Any player who gets the opportunity to play at Wrigley should welcome it"
Big bat needed
Lee already has a WS ring, so I would rather Kerry Wood get one. That said, the Braves really needed somebody and I hope Lee can help them out. Pretty cool if Cox can win in his last season.
It wouldn’t surprise me if Lee’s back has had something to do with his struggles this year. He might have trouble getting a good new deal.
The Cubs have to bring-in a big bat now.
but where is the NTC for the big bat?
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Well, the left one of course. It's BIGGER!
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I like it
Put it on the uniforms. Get rid of that bear.
by AboutTheCubs on Aug 19, 2010 12:12 AM CDT up reply actions
They said on Sports Nite
last night that Derrek said his back has been a problem the last three years.
A lovely story:
One day, long, long ago, there lived a woman who didn't whine, nag or bitch. That would be me....
But that was a long time ago and it was just that one day.
The end
15 years ago today, the Cubs scored 26 runs vs. Colorado
Boxscore
Sad that we can’t even score 26 in a week these days…..
"Any player who gets the opportunity to play at Wrigley should welcome it"
But now we no longer have Derrek Lee dragging us down in the three spot
RIP Ronnie James Dio (July 10, 1942 - May 16, 2010).
Free BLou
Thanks, Derek Lee.
He gave us several wonderful seasons and a lot of enjoyable moments. I believe his skills are declining but he still can help a team win with his glove and his bat.
On Friday he might start beating us again like he did in 2003. Yet, since our season is over for all competitive purposes, I wish him well with his new team. Let the best one win!
"May the road rise to meet you..."
"Don’t belittle entire fanbases or neighborhoods…simply because they are within proximity to some people who don’t operate (or look) the same way you do." - AndrewJStone 6/29/2010
by DrCrawdad on Aug 19, 2010 2:13 AM CDT via mobile reply actions
May the BASEPATH rise to meet you... ;)
We have met the enemy and they are us! ~ Walt Kelly, Pogo, 1971
I also want to say thanks
Thanks to Derrek Lee for the solid time put in for the Cubbies, for being a good guy on and off the field and for rejecting a trade to the Angels so you could go to the Braves (my second favorite MLB team).
Also, thanks to Al Yellon for not sharing what you talked with Tom Ricketts about at today’s game. In a day and age where reporters have lost all respect for confidential conversations (ie: an anonymous source has told ESPN…) and where Twitter lets any Joe Blow announce things to the world before they are verified, you sir, show that there are still trustworthy people out there.
THANK YOU!!
For The Love!!
Rise and shout the Cougars are out!!
Thanks.
One of the reasons I can have these talks with him is that he knows if he tells me something “off the record”, it will stay that way.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
we need you to verify that with a source
that can be verified as well – you cant just go around saying you will be confidential without a good, nameable source
I Love Larry - Brick are you looking at random things around the room and saying that you love them - I Love Larry
Currently 34,839 on the Season Ticket Wait List - Expected age of being #0: 119
by hansman1982 on Aug 19, 2010 12:00 PM CDT up reply actions
so he is Deep Goat?
Chronologically inept since 2060
"I could be writing this crap!" -- Crow T. Robot
Go figure
When a large market team can rationalize the trade of a servicable or better part by pointing to the cost savings, something is terribly wrong. Ricketts can make the claim that the plan is to build a contender “from the ground up” all he wants…the reality is that this organization is light years from developing the impact bats and arms it is going to take to make this team a contender at the big league level.
Two legit regulars will not turn this club around. They need many, many moreand if they are more concerned with saving money than spending it, their fortunes will not change. The fact has been bemoaned before. No matter the failings of the more recent spending sprees, you cannot contend by drafting for signability (Hayden Simpson) and within a budget like a small market team when the other large market teams use their cash assets to improve annually.
These trades by the Cubs have been laughably poor. They haven’t acquired one legitimate “championship” caliber player in return for any of the guys they’ve dealt. I’m not suggesting that any of them should have returned that type of player…but rather, they may as well have waived all of them with the woefully short returns they have received. And that includes Blake DeWitt/Todd Walker. The three arms they received for Lee are organizational arms if anything. Just change the jersey names of Berg, Stevens, Caridad, etc. AT BEST.
This organization is currently mired in a very dark period. If it is not willing to spend as it should, the dark period could last for many years. For an organization starving for a championship, that’s saying something.
"When the day comes with that last winning run and I'm crying and covered in beer. I'll look to the sky and know I was right to think someday we'll go all the way." - Vedder
What a bunch of crap, krummy.
You have no idea what the pitchers today will amount to. Further, the Cubs didn’t make a cost-cutting move. They’re paying half of Lee’s salaries to get prospects. It looks like Hendry could have essentially given Lee away and wiped $3.4 million off the books. Instead, we got one of Atlanta’s top 20 prospects, and two guys who might help our horrible bullpen.
Then again, they might not. But Lee was gone at the end of the year, so any return on him is gravy. The Cubs saved nearly $2 million and they acquired some good prospects. The Cubs did about as well as they could have yesterday.
by elgato on Aug 19, 2010 9:08 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
wait, so you're proposing we should have "waived" the players as opposed to getting ANYTHING in return?
That makes a TON of sense.
I’m not a fan of the direction the club is going right now and don’t buy into Ricketts’ “everyman” approach either but exercise the tiniest bit of common sense.
Even if the players we’ve acquired in response werent that great, even you have admitted we shouldn’t have expected much in the way of a return. Why in the hell would you RATHER get nothing?
by HuskerCorner on Aug 19, 2010 9:44 AM CDT up reply actions
HC, honest question for you ...
how can you write off Ricketts so soon? I mean, I get that this year has been bad, and that the draft situation was controversial. But the jury is still firmly out for me on Ricketts, and I’m optimistic about the verdict.
True, Ricketts hasn’t been out in public saying a lot, but what would he say? I don’t agree with keeping Hendry, but I think that’s a tactical mistake rather than an indication the Ricketts’ priorities are off. I don’t think it’s indicative of Ricketts being a cheapskate.
Like I said, I’m genuinely curious why you and some of the other more reasoned posters are writing off Ricketts so soon …
I agree.
It hasn’t even been one calendar year!
Look where Tribune ownership was in August 1982 for a comparison.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
ok, what'll be the excuse after that?
Just curious. The “vote of confidence for Hendry” was the first missed chance (IMHO) at doing something really substantive. Retaining Crane K was another.
I guess we’ll see where the managerial search goes.
absolutely
fire lou and hendry at the same press conference – that’ll show everyone
I Love Larry - Brick are you looking at random things around the room and saying that you love them - I Love Larry
Currently 34,839 on the Season Ticket Wait List - Expected age of being #0: 119
by hansman1982 on Aug 19, 2010 12:01 PM CDT up reply actions
Show everyone what?
That Ricketts is as much a reactionary as a lot of fans are?
by Not Bruce Froemming on Aug 19, 2010 12:59 PM CDT up reply actions
he didnt have a full off season either
people need to relax just a little
Chronologically inept since 2060
"I could be writing this crap!" -- Crow T. Robot
When did I say I've written him off?
I don’t buy into his “I’m just like you” approach, that doesn’t mean I think he’s a bad owner. I don’t like the direction the club is going because we’re sinking, and the captain of that sinking ship is being allowed to stay at the helm. I’m not asking him to say ANYTHING (other than Jim Hendry will not return in 2011)
I have said before that I’ve seen certain dealings with the Ricketts family that have left me less than…..trusting of their competence. The fact that we know absolutely nothing about what direction they are ACTUALLY going to take the club, and that the few small samples we have seen have been far from glowing has me leaning in the “we might be in trouble” camp. But by no means have I written him off. I hope he turns into a very good owner, I simply don’t give him as much of the benefit of the doubt as Al does.
by HuskerCorner on Aug 19, 2010 10:00 AM CDT up reply actions
I agree
that if you’re a big market team and you want to build from the ground up then you should leverage your deep pockets by drafting the best players and signing them when small market teams flinch at their price tags.
I disagree that these trades have been laughably poor though. A great recent example: at one point Liriano was considered a throw-in in the Pierzynski trade. Stockpiling young arms is never a bad thing, especially when you’re only trading away players who won’t be helping the Cubs when they become competitive again in a few years.
I’m waiting to see what the Cubs do in the 2011 draft before I let myself think the organization is primarily concerned with pinching pennies.
2011 can't get here soon enough.
by Castro Por Presidente on Aug 19, 2010 9:47 AM CDT up reply actions
It seems to me that the Cubs almost always load up on pitching prospects
When they make a deal….
Would it hurt at all to target a hitting prospect? Especially with our future holes at the corners?
"You win because of the quarterback. We have to get that position stabilized. We're fixated on that." -- Jerry Angelo (12.30.2008)
Jerry Angelo trades for Jay Cutler! (4.2.2009)
D-Lee, you'll be missed.
Great guy. Very good player. I know it was time and the right move, but I am sorry to see my favorite Cub traded.
Best of luck in ATL!
"Sometimes you eat the bar and sometimes..."
I'm going to miss him.
If the Cubs still have a chance, no matter how small, it’s still Go Cubs, damn the math and pass the KoolAid.
Farewell, Derrick.
All class all the time. You won’t be forgotten in Chicago.
Thanks for the memories!
P.S. Please keep unloading Jim Hendry (Preferably some salary from beyond 2010)!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Official MCM Pessimist.
Oh, I'm sorry; did I poke a hole in the echo chamber?
by The Jade Scorpion on Aug 19, 2010 10:20 AM CDT reply actions
This takes gaul
Just saw this email title from Cubs.com
Catch baseball at its best – choose your seats on StubHub
"They come to see me strike out, hit a home run, or run into a fence. I try to accommodate them at least one way every game." - Gorman Thomas
that title doesnt say
you have to buy tickets to Cubs games…
I Love Larry - Brick are you looking at random things around the room and saying that you love them - I Love Larry
Currently 34,839 on the Season Ticket Wait List - Expected age of being #0: 119
by hansman1982 on Aug 19, 2010 12:03 PM CDT up reply actions
I also got one from MLB.com
that said
Postseason Races Heating Up
That one hurt more.
"Fasten those seatbelts!"-Pat Hughes
Opt-Out
This season makes you think some Cubs players have.
"They come to see me strike out, hit a home run, or run into a fence. I try to accommodate them at least one way every game." - Gorman Thomas
by RiskyBusiness on Aug 19, 2010 7:23 PM CDT up reply actions
Caesar
would have been traded by the Cubs before he took Gaul. Probably for silver coins and a noble to me named later.
"They come to see me strike out, hit a home run, or run into a fence. I try to accommodate them at least one way every game." - Gorman Thomas
by RiskyBusiness on Aug 19, 2010 7:27 PM CDT up reply actions
DLee should have been MVP in 2005
Derrek Lee won the silver slugger as the best hitting first baseman in the NL. Derrek Lee won the Gold Glove as the best fielding first baseman in the NL. Derrek Lee lost the MVP to another first baseman, Albert Pujols. Albert must have been one hell of a baserunner that year.
It helped ...
that Pujols’ team made the playoffs. The Cubs were 79-83 that year. Such things (correctly) matter in MVP voting.
eh I disagree
slightly – I dont think that you should have to make the playoffs to get considered for MVP – if you are the best player in the bigs that year you are the best player in the bigs – no if ands or buts
I Love Larry - Brick are you looking at random things around the room and saying that you love them - I Love Larry
Currently 34,839 on the Season Ticket Wait List - Expected age of being #0: 119
by hansman1982 on Aug 19, 2010 12:41 PM CDT up reply actions
It's most VALUABLE player ...
not BEST player.

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