Casey Coleman And Mike Quade Both Get First Wins; Cubs Blow Out Nationals
by Al Yellon on Aug 24, 2010 7:32 AM CDT
in Chicago Cubs Recaps
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PrintIn the grand sweep of Cubs history, last night's 9-1 Cubs win over the Nationals means very little, and years from now it will probably be a nearly-forgotten line at baseball-reference.com.
But for today, we can note that Mike Quade accomplished something that Lou Piniella did not -- win his first game as Cubs manager. The first game of the 2007 season, Lou's first as Cubs skipper, was a 5-1 loss to the Reds in Cincinnati. Just short of six months later, the Cubs returned to Cincinnati in triumph, clinching the NL Central title there.
Last night's game, though all it did was move the Cubs from 21.5 to 20.5 games behind the Reds, was enjoyable nevertheless. A five-run outburst in the third inning off an old Cubs nemesis, Livan Hernandez, was all they'd need. It was highlighted by Blake DeWitt's third home run since joining the Cubs. In 80 plate appearances, DeWitt is hitting .338/.400/.507 since the deal. Do I expect him to hit this way for a full season next year? No, but he's clearly a better hitter than both Ryan Theriot and Mike Fontenot, and, having just turned 25 last Friday, he still has a chance to get better.
Something else worth noting for the offense: Aramis Ramirez walked twice, went 1-for-3 and scored two runs. He has raised his season average to .245 and since his return from the disabled list on June 25, he is hitting .321/.368/.609 over 201 plate appearances with 33 runs scored, 14 HR and 41 RBI in 49 games.
I'll do the math for you. That pro-rates to 109 runs, 46 HR and 136 RBI over a 162-game season. Now, granted, A-Ram generally misses 20 games a year even in his best seasons, but these numbers are in line with what he had done most of his career before the last two seasons, which he's spent mostly injured. He may wind up with decent full-season stats this year and play in about 120 games. Even with a strong finish, it's unlikely he'll opt out of his contract in the current market -- and the Cubs should hope not, because if he did, they would lose a productive player. It seems clear that Ramirez can still be one, at least for the next couple of years.
Mike Quade is "auditioning", to use his word, for next year's manager's job. Casey Coleman made his case last night to be part of the 2011 pitching staff. The Nationals, once a better-hitting club, are, suprising to some, 14th in runs scored in the NL this year. Nevertheless, Coleman did a fine job shutting them down for six-plus innings. He's certainly earned some more starts to see whether he can be useful next year. A fulltime rotation starter? Maybe not, but then, no one thought Randy Wells could be one either.
It's always nice to win, even from the lower levels of the standings. From the telecast the announced crowd of 17,921 at Nationals Park seemed like it wasn't much more than half of that and many of those were Cubs fans -- the cheering for DeWitt's home run came across loud and clear.
Finally, it just felt different. The TV reaction shots of Quade in the dugout showed him consulting various printed materials during the game -- where did those glasses come from? It was nice to see Bob Dernier as 1B coach (wearing #54; he is the first Cubs coach to wear that number since Stan Hack wore it briefly in a 1965 return to the team)... I suspect Dernier will be strongly considered by anyone who is named manager in 2011 for his coaching staff.
Keep up the good work, guys.
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more energy
There seemed to be a lot more energy on the field than we’ve seen all year. A new mgr. always has SOME effect short term. Let’s hope they can give us some joy this last month.
"It's a funny old world. Man's lucky if he gets out of it alive." W.C. Fields
As I posted when Lou announced he was leaving after Sunday...
… it would not surprise me to see this team now win six or eight in a row.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
Well if they can win 8 in a row, then they could win 12 in a row or 16 or....
I just gotta stop drinking the KoolAid… ;-)
If the Cubs still have a chance, no matter how small, it’s still Go Cubs, damn the math and pass the KoolAid.
win them all!!!
Cubbies to the World Series in 2010! Imagine, if only for a second, that they do, do that – do you think Lou would still have a shot at the hall?
I Love Larry - Brick are you looking at random things around the room and saying that you love them - I Love Larry
Currently 34,839 on the Season Ticket Wait List - Expected age of being #0: 119
If anything
That would prove he doesn’t belong.
RIP Ronnie James Dio (July 10, 1942 - May 16, 2010).
Free BLou
if only for a nanosecond
A whole second is just too long.
"They come to see me strike out, hit a home run, or run into a fence. I try to accommodate them at least one way every game." - Gorman Thomas
by RiskyBusiness on Aug 24, 2010 9:38 AM CDT up reply actions
I'm not sure I can envision them winning that many in a row.
But I could certainly see a little 6 out of 8 kind of spurt.
As a sort of related aside… is there a record (either Cubs or MLB) for the shortest longest winning streak of the season? The Cubs best is only 4 in a row… and it seems really odd to never have won even 5 in a row.
Shut up Joe Morgan.
On a lark, I took a look at a couple of bad teams.
The ’03 Tigers (43-119) had one four game winning streak, and a handful of 3-win streaks.
The ’62 Mets (40-120) could only win three in a row – twice.
And the infamous 1899 Cleveland Spiders (20-134) only won back-to-back games one time. And that wasn’t even against the same team. They ended that season by going 1-40.
Moral: Could be worse. ; )
by The Deputy Mayor of Rush Street on Aug 24, 2010 11:11 AM CDT up reply actions
The 2006 Cubs had a four-game winning streak.
That’s the last time they didn’t have one of at least five.
I cannot find a Cubs team in their entire history that did not have at least one four-game winning streak.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
I am so glad that Mike Quade is off to a good start.
A nice lil’ win streak wouldn’t be bad…
If the Cubs still have a chance, no matter how small, it’s still Go Cubs, damn the math and pass the KoolAid.
Soriano should have been pulled.
Quade blew a great chance to put his personality on this team by pulling Soriano after that lazy millionaire got his triple…instead of the inside of the park homer!
by Crown Point Bob on Aug 24, 2010 12:51 PM CDT up reply actions
I agree, even the radio broadcast crew sounded more alive.
If the Cubs still have a chance, no matter how small, it’s still Go Cubs, damn the math and pass the KoolAid.
I was at the ballpark
Coleman received a standing ovation from those of us in blue when he left the field. I wasn’t expecting much pitching-wise, but definitely was pleasantly surprised. He works pretty quickly (unlike Livan Hernandez – cripes, throw the ball already) and seemed to settle down after the 1st inning.
The sinker was really breaking on TV
Not sure how much of that you could see in the stands, but when he kept the ball low, it really moved, and not always in the same direction. I’m sure that I saw it dart both in and out while heading down.
"I won't be like A-Rod" - Z, 3/17/09
by Ihatethecards on Aug 24, 2010 7:59 AM CDT up reply actions
Coleman & Byrd
Re: Coleman – was that his first major league hit and RBI?
Also, not sure if it was shown on TV, but at one point when the bases were loaded and Byrd was on second, he took off with the pitch, which was knocked foul. Instead of turning and walking back to second, he skipped backward, like you do when you’re doing pre-game stretches. I love that guy. He always seems to be working hard.
by false cognate on Aug 24, 2010 11:05 AM CDT up reply actions
Yes, 1st ML hit and RBI for Coleman.
Looks like he knows how to handle the bat.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
I usually listen on the radio.
They joke about how high up the broadcast booths are. I decided to watch last night because I wanted to see Quade in action. Couldn’t believe when they showed that view down from Len and Bob’s booth. Wow, they weren’t kidding. No wonder Pat was talking about keeping a parachute up there.
"Fasten those seatbelts!"-Pat Hughes
I've been to Nationals Park.
That broadcast position is indeed VERY high. Nice view from there, though.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
How can they see to make the calls?
Do they watch it on a monitor?
"Fasten those seatbelts!"-Pat Hughes
Nationals Park?
What, they couldn’t get some lobbyist to pony up for the naming rights? How about AARP Ballpark?
"They come to see me strike out, hit a home run, or run into a fence. I try to accommodate them at least one way every game." - Gorman Thomas
by RiskyBusiness on Aug 24, 2010 9:49 AM CDT up reply actions
This park brought to you by the United States Government.
by Steven Schweickert on Aug 24, 2010 11:15 AM CDT up reply actions
aka the taxpayers
"Well-behaved women seldom make History"---Laurel Thatcher Ulrich
by cooliogirl47 on Aug 24, 2010 11:18 AM CDT up reply actions
Only insofar as the Federal government contributes much of the District's budget.
Still, people who live there are the only Americans who can fairly claim “taxation without representation”.
(Not that I’m going to defend the DC City Council.)
by The Deputy Mayor of Rush Street on Aug 24, 2010 11:41 AM CDT up reply actions
How about a defense contractor?
General Atomics Predator Field
"They come to see me strike out, hit a home run, or run into a fence. I try to accommodate them at least one way every game." - Gorman Thomas
by RiskyBusiness on Aug 24, 2010 1:23 PM CDT up reply actions
You gotta imagine that GA has looked into sponsoring Nashville's NHL arena
Bridgestone’s got the current naming rights, however.
"Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have?" -Frank Chance
"If [Ruth] had [called his shot], I would have knocked him down with the next pitch." -Charlie Root
Aram
I realize that he has been hitting the ball much better of late but his defense has been obscenely bad. Brenly has been making cracks about it of late. Maybe Z’s misgivings about the defensive effort weren’t so far off base.
by Mmurton on Aug 24, 2010 8:08 AM CDT via mobile reply actions
actually Brenly outright called his defense out on Sunday when DLee hit a shot at him
“All year Ramirez has not put himself in front of any ball and is playing them off to the side” Brenly said, and then continued; as TV showed the reply “when will he put himself in front of a ball?”
When we were kids we called it “gut-out”
Me thinks that if Brenly is voicing it on TV it is being discussed in the locker room and up stairs. Remirez must be moved to 1B or we will live with a very marginal 3B next year.
As for DeWitt……DUH……yes he is a better hitter and fielder than the Bayou Duo, and again shows me how marginal Cub players become darlings of their fandom and yet are not all that.
Piniella: "This is a tougher job than I thought it would be, I'm going to be honest with you."
That was a strong statement
when I heard it I was amazed to hear him call out ARam. Announcers rarely do it but in this case is warrented. He was never a great derender but he had become above league average and now doesn’t seem to care much. Not sure moving him to first will help. He still won’t care.
You can get more with a kind word and a gun than you can with a kind word alone. - Al Capone
Stoney used to do it, at least his last couple years with the Cubs.
Seemed that there was a nasty cycle of Stone criticized a player, player went to Dusty, Dusty went to management, management asked Stone to tone it down, Stone cut a little deeper next time.. rince & repeat.
I was expecting Brenly to soft-soap it when he started in the Cubs’ booth, but he won me over by mid-season. Brenly isn’t afraid to point out what he thinks is wrong, he just uses the velvet glove instead of the iron gauntlet. That shot at Ramirez was an exception. I don’t remember anyone other than non-hustling Soriano get it that straight from Bob.
by The Deputy Mayor of Rush Street on Aug 24, 2010 11:47 AM CDT up reply actions
One of the
reasons AI like Bob. I just hope he doesn’t leave the booth. Can’t blame him though if he wants to manage and gets that chance.
A lovely story:
One day, long, long ago, there lived a woman who didn't whine, nag or bitch. That would be me....
But that was a long time ago and it was just that one day.
The end
Well, we've had player-managers before - why not announcer-manager?
Just put a mic on Bob the whole game. Give him a little earpiece so he can hear Len’s pbp, and he’ll just add in his color commentary & analysis like he always does.
It’d be hilarious – you could hear him rip ARam for doing that little “ole” move when it happens, then you can hear rip ARam again when he comes into the dugout. And those meetings on the mound? If 2011 is anything like 2010, it’s only a matter of time before we’d hear “candlesticks always make a nice gift”.
Ratings would be so high, TribCo would pay huge bucks to put all the games back on WGN.
GITERDONETOM!
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
That would be hilarious.
A lovely story:
One day, long, long ago, there lived a woman who didn't whine, nag or bitch. That would be me....
But that was a long time ago and it was just that one day.
The end
ballhawk
You are really thinking outside the box here. Is this sincere, or merely throwing your hat in the ring for the Cubs manager job?
"Wait, are you saying I'm a sunshine-pumping, koolaid-drinking, Soriano-loving, rainbow-rising, unicorn-riding, double-clutching, Sweet Lou-backing, Hendry-supporting, hey hey whaddya saying, Cubs are going all the waying, glass is overflowing, Rothschild is all-knowing, Cubs fan? - ballhawk
Well next year when I'm at the podium accepting my BCB HANNIE award...
…I’m gonna cite Bill Simmons as one of my early influences…
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
I think Bob was looking for an excuse to rag on him, honestly
He’s had some bad plays, but on that one, it looked to me like he overplayed right and then tried to snag it when he realized he was overplaying it. He tried to get to the right spot on contact and blew it. In other words, it wasn’t a lack of effort on this play, but Bob certainly made it sound like he was lazy.
Judge for yourself, though. Around the 0:42 mark, you can see the full play.
"Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have?" -Frank Chance
"If [Ruth] had [called his shot], I would have knocked him down with the next pitch." -Charlie Root
The Race to 100 Losses:
Can we do it? Probably not.
2 @ WASH
3 @ CIN
3 PIT
3 NYM
6 HOU
3 @ MIL
6 STL
3 @ FLA
3 SFG
4 @ SDP
That’s 22 games against teams .500 or better. We need to lose 26 of our last 32, or a .188 winning percentage.
Dan
"The riches of the game are in the thrills, not the money." --Ernie Banks
I do see 9 guarranteed losses in there...
the trick – can you find them?
I Love Larry - Brick are you looking at random things around the room and saying that you love them - I Love Larry
Currently 34,839 on the Season Ticket Wait List - Expected age of being #0: 119
The other 6 with Houston
Skip: You guys. You lollygag the ball around the infield. You lollygag your way down to first. You lollygag in and out of the dugout. You know what that makes you? ... Larry?
Larry: Lollygaggers!
Skip: Lollygaggers.
ding ding ding
and the win goes to the Casey – Zeke team…whata we have for them Johnny!?
I Love Larry - Brick are you looking at random things around the room and saying that you love them - I Love Larry
Currently 34,839 on the Season Ticket Wait List - Expected age of being #0: 119
Not the recycled belly button lint please...
Skip: You guys. You lollygag the ball around the infield. You lollygag your way down to first. You lollygag in and out of the dugout. You know what that makes you? ... Larry?
Larry: Lollygaggers!
Skip: Lollygaggers.
well since they didnt trade Dome
I guess that is in the prize grab bag again! What did that collection plate ever get to
I Love Larry - Brick are you looking at random things around the room and saying that you love them - I Love Larry
Currently 34,839 on the Season Ticket Wait List - Expected age of being #0: 119
Here:
"$6.54, 2 guitar picks, hansman1982’s belly button lint, a half eaten bag of potato chips, a leaf of pot, 52.6 gallons of German beer, a 1993 lime green Geo Metro, an empty bottle of kombucha, an old DSL modem, two Palm Pilots and an extra Palm Pilot stylus, a Brett Michaels bobblehead, an Android Invader collectable figurine, two Harold Reynolds and Greg Luzinski autographed baseballs, a lightly used Vera Wang handbag, 17 slightly chewed small yellow chicks, a box of Star Wars characters, a Jabra BT4010, tube of Sea & Sea O-Ring grease, 3 cans of Hormel Spam, an Eric Patterson autographed miniature bat, the Spring 2010 issue of Alert Diver magazine (with 2 joke covers), a $5 Billion German Mark certificate (=$5 Trillion U.S.) and a partridge in a pear tree…"
Skip: You guys. You lollygag the ball around the infield. You lollygag your way down to first. You lollygag in and out of the dugout. You know what that makes you? ... Larry?
Larry: Lollygaggers!
Skip: Lollygaggers.
I was hoping for
the year’s supply of turtle wax and rice-a-roni and a copy of the home game.
"Fasten those seatbelts!"-Pat Hughes
my guess....3 each @ CIN, PIT and SD
"Well-behaved women seldom make History"---Laurel Thatcher Ulrich
by cooliogirl47 on Aug 24, 2010 8:12 AM CDT up reply actions
sorry, you did get Pitt right
you get the years supply of kitty litter as your parting gift…
I Love Larry - Brick are you looking at random things around the room and saying that you love them - I Love Larry
Currently 34,839 on the Season Ticket Wait List - Expected age of being #0: 119
I'd be very happy ...
if the Cubs somehow went on a roll and avoided 90 losses. That’s probably just as unlikely, though.
They would have to go 21-15 to do that.
Not impossible, but uniikely given that they have not done that over any 36-game stretch this year.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
If Quade did that ...
with this depleted roster, he should get more than passing consideration for the job next year.
amen
even if he posts a 1 game better than .500 record I think he should. Right now my list is 1. Girardi 2. Sandbourg-en-yen 3. Quade
I Love Larry - Brick are you looking at random things around the room and saying that you love them - I Love Larry
Currently 34,839 on the Season Ticket Wait List - Expected age of being #0: 119
totally meaningless
“we can note that Mike Quade accomplished something that Lou Piniella did not — win his first game as Cubs manager” If Quade gets the Cubs to win the division two years in a row—he will then have equalled Lou—if he gets them to the WS—then we can all talk.
"He can compress the most words into the smallest idea of any man I know. " Abraham Lincoln
You think so?
If Quade could make this team go 21-15, it should help his chances to get the job, I think.
Soriano
Quade blew a great chance to put his personality on this team by pulling Soriano after that lazy millionaire got his triple…instead of the inside of the park homer!
by Crown Point Bob on Aug 24, 2010 12:52 PM CDT up reply actions
I don't think they'll reach 100 losses.
I think, however, they might come close to the 96-loss mark by the 2006 team.
I didn't believe it last August, but it turns out that love survives.
Mount Washington conquered July 5, 2010! State high point count: 3/50
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Aug 24, 2010 8:36 AM CDT up reply actions
My thoughts from last night:
1) It was great to see one of our young pitchers step up. I kinda doubt Coleman will be a starter next year, but he might put himself in line for the 11th or 12th spot in the pen.
2) DeWitt hitting lead off seemed like something an Oakland team would do. Lou seemed wedded to the idea that speed had to be at the top of the lineup, which is why I think he clung to Theriot the way he did. Props to Quade on this idea.
3) The resurgence by Aramis is tricky. If he has a crazy-good final five weeks, he might opt out — despite his statements to the contrary. It would be nice if the Cubs had more money to spend on free agents, but keeping Aramis has the added plus that he doesn’t require a long-term deal.
Will there be a 12th spot next year?
What if we have a new manager that only goes to 11?
"Fasten those seatbelts!"-Pat Hughes
Nice.
In all seriousness, I don’t have a strong opinion on whether an 11-man staff or a 12-man staff . I know the arguments on both sides, but it seems that to categorically support one or the other doesn’t make much sense — i.e. if a team has a couple DeRosa types, I don’t see why a 12-man staff is a bad idea.
I don't have a strong opinion one way or the other either.
That’s why I was asking.
"Fasten those seatbelts!"-Pat Hughes
Lou liked a 12-man staff ...
but, then, Lou was too wedded to making changes per lefty-righty thinking. And until this season, he almost never used his 12th man. Remember David Patton?
Cuz Lou sure didn’t.
The thinking, I guess ...
was that he was there if you need him. This year, we have needed him.
But the cons outweigh the pros.
Agreed.
Next year’s manager should seriously consider an 11-man staff.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
To go with an 11-man staff these days
you pretty much need to identify a utility player that can throw an inning here and there in blowouts, to save the staff.
I don’t know why this doesn’t happen more in your 16-5 type games…
by The Deputy Mayor of Rush Street on Aug 24, 2010 11:20 AM CDT up reply actions
The 'Cajun Connection' TOOTBLANs around second base...
Skip: You guys. You lollygag the ball around the infield. You lollygag your way down to first. You lollygag in and out of the dugout. You know what that makes you? ... Larry?
Larry: Lollygaggers!
Skip: Lollygaggers.
I think the problem may have been...
…that there was a Stonehenge monument on stage that was in danger of being CRUSHED be a DWARF!
Get 'em on, Get 'em over, Get 'em in!
I am hoping
that if the Cubs do go on the young/cheap route next year that Coleman can come out of it as a Wells type pitcher and we can move one of them for something – preferrably Lind, Greinke AND PV.
I also agree with you that having Rami back next year will be nice – he will be a cornerstone of any chance we have at contending – but, quite frankly I am ready to move on from him after that.
I dont care who is leading off as long as they give Colvin some shots at the 3 hole…
I Love Larry - Brick are you looking at random things around the room and saying that you love them - I Love Larry
Currently 34,839 on the Season Ticket Wait List - Expected age of being #0: 119
I wonder if Colvin will hit there tonight, actually.
Byrd probably will get the night off, meaning Colvin will play center.
I liked DeWitt hitting near the top of the order
If only we could find a spot for Soto up there while we’re at it. His .404 OBP leads the team. Given that Castro seems to have firmly entrenched himself at #2, how about the 3-hole?
I would have just switched Nady and Soto last night.
DeWitt, Castro, Byrd, Ramirez, Soto, Colvin, Soriano, Nady
If Byrd sits tonight, I’ll be very interested to see who hits third.
Honestly, that lineup doesn't suck
Shame we’re such a feast or famine team because the tools are there to field at least an average offense, with an upgrade at 1B next season hopefully pushing us above that mark.
+1
I agree – this team is a decent bullpen and hitting with RISP away from the playoffs – maybe a different manager will help out one of those
I Love Larry - Brick are you looking at random things around the room and saying that you love them - I Love Larry
Currently 34,839 on the Season Ticket Wait List - Expected age of being #0: 119
Whoa.
The team needs more than THAT hansman. The starting rotation needs help, for one thing.
If the Cubs can sign another starter, if they can get an big RBI bat in the lineup and if the bench and bullpen can be filled cheaply and/or internally … then the Cubs can be fringe contenders next year, with the possibility of winning about 85 games.
The biggest problem with that plan is that the young relievers have been generally SO bad. There’s still time for one or two to emerge — and not Esmalin Caridad, 17-innings emerge — but without that, the Cubs will have to overpay for relievers. And that’s a recipe for disaster considering our GM’s track record.
if we get Lilly back
the rotation returns to what it was at the beginning of the year – which is still above average (I dont buy into the notion that you NEED an ace) – outside of that you have Colvin, Soto, Byrd, Soriano, Ramirez and Fukudome who can all put up 20 home runs or higher, you have your #2 guy (which can potentially be a #1 hitter (Castro)) and you have a decent defensive team. You now have a geniune backup at 3rd and we get to see what Barney can do in September at 2b and ss. If you can trade Fukudome and get another 20+ homerun guy to fill either RF or 1b that gives you 6 guys who will have 20+ home runs and 2 guys who could get 10+. I feel the offense and defense will be ok next year (especially considering Lou wont be managing) and as long as we get another 2 good arms for the pen and hope that we get one from the minors we have a legit shot at the playoffs – who had the Reds in this situation at the beginning of the year.
I Love Larry - Brick are you looking at random things around the room and saying that you love them - I Love Larry
Currently 34,839 on the Season Ticket Wait List - Expected age of being #0: 119
Response.
Fukudome can’t hit 20 home runs OR HIGHER. And Soto and Byrd will end up with (maybe) around that many. Also, trading Kosuke will NOT be easy. I know he’s hit well this month, but the Cubs will have to pay about $10 million or take on another bad contract.
Where do you propose we get another two good arms for the pen? It’s obvious that they’re needed, but if this season has taught us anything, it’s that the Cubs (read: Hendry) are not good with bullpens. For all the talk of good arms in the minors, the guys who’ve spent time with the Cubs this year have been really bad. Only Cashner and Russell have been good on occasion.
Actually, a few people picked the Reds this year — and you’re falling into faulty BCB logic when you say that one unique team (i.e. the current Cubs) can defy the odds because another unique team (i.e. the 2010 Cubs, the 2003 Marlins, the 2005 Astros, etc.) did it. The Reds are loaded with young pitching and they have a good bullpen with proven veterans. And, frankly, the Reds are about 100 times more fundamentally sound than the Cubs are at this point.
I don’t think next year is hopeless, either. But the things that you’re suggesting are not easy, which is why predicting that we just need X and Y to get back to the postseason is premature.
proven veterans?
yes, the reds have francisco cordero and arthur rhodes but the rest of their bullpen is a bunch of young guys like daniel ray herrera, logan ondrusek and jordan smith. even nick masset is only 28. they’ve also cycled through their fair share of bad this year….mike lincoln, micah owings and carlos fisher, for example.
by circuitclout on Aug 24, 2010 9:46 AM CDT up reply actions
You again? Really?
Masset and Herrera both are third-year players, who would instantly be the third best reliever on the Cubs. Cordero, Rhodes, Herrera and Masset is a helluva lot better than Marmol, Marshall and the daycare the Cubs have had.
Note that I said a good bullpen with PROVEN veterans. You don’t think Masset and Herrera are proven?
masset and herrera
are no more proven than, say, marmol and marshall at this point.
cordero has been mediocre this year for a $12 mil closer.
rhodes has been lights out, maybe the best reliever in the NL.
masset is nothing special.
by circuitclout on Aug 24, 2010 10:00 AM CDT up reply actions
I didn't compare Masset and Herrera ...
to Marmol and Marshall. I compared them with the daycare AFTER Marmol and Marshall. Masset and Herrera are better than Cashner and Russell, aren’t they?
I’ll grant you that Herrera and Masset are still young, and that they arguably aren’t veterans in the style of Arthur Rhodes. But they have more experience than anyone after Marmol and Marshall in the Cubs pen — and the larger point about the Cincinnati bullpen being MILES AND AWAY better than the Cubs stands.
But you’ll probably just call me a politician, or something.
the cubs bullpen
has not performed to an acceptable level but that does not mean that they cannot or never will, they just didn’t, i’m not smart enough to know why. cashner certainly has more upside than masset, russell and herrera are 2nd lefties out of the pen. russell seems useful enough in that role.
the reds tried other guys that didn’t work out so well. relief pitchers are a bit of a crap shoot.
hererra (2nd year really) and masset (4th) both struggled early in their career as well.
by circuitclout on Aug 24, 2010 10:15 AM CDT up reply actions
Both Herrera and Masset were good in 2009.
They were both better than anybody in our pen this year after Marmol and Marshall. Considering this thread started after hansman’s comments about the Cubs being in the playoffs next year after a couple moves — including finding two good guys in the bullpen — my original point stands:
Finding two good relievers (considering what the Cubs currently have) won’t be THAT easy. The Reds had two second-year guys coming off good second seasons, in addition to a closer (Cordero) and a veteran lefty (Rhodes).
The Cubs have Marmol and Marshall, but NO ONE who has been as good as Masset and Herrera were in 2009.
i agree with hansman
in general. and masset and herrera weren’t useful in 2010 because they were useful in 2009. in the same vein, some of the same pitchers the cubs have trotted out there could still be contributors next year.
by circuitclout on Aug 24, 2010 10:43 AM CDT up reply actions
If Russell and Cashner are useful next year ...
I would be thrilled. But neither is making me very confident.
I’m not saying Masset and Herrera were useful this year because they were useful last year. I’m saying that predicting success this year for the Reds bullpen made a helluva lot more sense than predicting success for the Cubs bullpen next year based on its current makeup. We have a LOT less proven talent compared with where the Reds were at this point in 2009.
The only way to dismiss this point is the “you never know argument” — which is pretty meaningless, because it works BOTH ways. The Cubs daycare pen COULD just as easily get worse next year.
why do i have to keep
comparing apples to oranges to disprove your specious arguments. what good does it do to compare our bullpen in late august in 2010 to the reds bullpen in 2009?
by circuitclout on Aug 24, 2010 10:57 AM CDT up reply actions
Hansman, whom you apparently agree with ...
in support of his thought that the Cubs can contend, asked whether anybody predicted that the Reds would be leading the division.
That’s why it applies.
As I said yesterday, let’s ignore each other from now on. Cool?
well
maybe if you stop making stuff up.
by circuitclout on Aug 24, 2010 11:18 AM CDT up reply actions
well, let's start with
The Reds are loaded with young pitching and they have a good bullpen with proven veterans
the numbers say the reds have an okay bullpen with two veteran pitchers and a handful of young relievers who have had varying levels of success. the bullpen was far better last year when they went 78-84 and finished 4th in the NL central.
your apparent point, that the reds are good this year because of their good, veteran led bullpen, isn’t really true.
by circuitclout on Aug 24, 2010 11:34 AM CDT up reply actions
Actually, that was ONE of the points I made about the Reds being good this year.
I said the bullpen, good fundamentals, good starting pitching.
If I overstated the veteran status of the Reds bullpen I apologize 100 times over. I’m a terrible person. Please forgive me, paragon of wisdom and fact, circuitclout!
how do you know
that the reds are a good fundamental team? have you sat down with tom emansky and analyzed the tape of every game this season? maybe it’s because their manager, dusty baker, always puts a fundamentally sound team on the field? or maybe they are in first place so they must be fundamentally sound?
or just making up stuff and presenting your opinion as fact?
by circuitclout on Aug 24, 2010 11:40 AM CDT up reply actions
It's my OPINION that the Reds are fundamentally sound.
I don’t see anything wrong with pointing that out.
how do you know
that the reds are a good fundamental team? have you sat down with tom emansky and analyzed the tape of every game this season? maybe it’s because their manager, dusty baker, always puts a fundamentally sound team on the field? or maybe they are in first place so they must be fundamentally sound?
or just making up stuff and presenting your opinion as fact?
by circuitclout on Aug 24, 2010 11:42 AM CDT up reply actions
Tell you what.
I think the two of you should indeed ignore each other. All you’re both doing is sniping at each other’s opinions. It’s really not serving any purpose.
Thank you.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
it's a message board
isn’t this where we are supposed to discuss stuff?
and how can I ignore elgato, he’s made almost 1/4 of the posts in this thread (48 of 211 by my count).
i’m not complaining, just saying.
by circuitclout on Aug 24, 2010 1:08 PM CDT up reply actions
Yes, discuss away.
But you two have had flame wars over insignificant stuff, and though there has been no namecalling, it’s pretty close.
Neither of you seems to like what the other is saying, so why not just move on to other parts of the thread.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
Well,
Everyone should be able to make statements and back them up with a reason for it if they wish. I think the part that gets frustrating is when someone wants to end it and agree to disagree…and another dismisses an opinion as being meaningless or made up. Just be able to let something go would help.
Starlin Castro singles on a pop up to catcher Jason LaRue.
Ryan Theriot scores. Two out -Gameday 7/23/10
by Sandberg's evil twin on Aug 24, 2010 1:21 PM CDT up reply actions
Exactly, Twin.
Agreeing to disagree. What a concept.
That's good to hear.
I didn’t mean to single you out so much with that general statement, obviously there are a lot of debates on here that are like that, which would be better served with those parties agreeing to disagree.
Starlin Castro singles on a pop up to catcher Jason LaRue.
Ryan Theriot scores. Two out -Gameday 7/23/10
by Sandberg's evil twin on Aug 24, 2010 1:49 PM CDT up reply actions
Consider that our primary right-hand setup guy going into the season ...
was Esmalin Caridad — he of less than 20 innings pitched in the majors.
A bit revisionist there?
I thought Guzman and Grabow were supposed to be the set-up guys going into spring training. One got hurt, one stank up the joint. Caridad had a good spring, and so was slotted in to set-up.
There wasn’t much else that could be done when they made that decision.
by The Deputy Mayor of Rush Street on Aug 24, 2010 11:27 AM CDT up reply actions
Well, I said going into the season.
And I said the right-handed setup guy (meaning, not Grabow).
but by your logic above
caridad’s success in 2009 made it okay to assume that he would be useful in 2010. just like the success of the reds bullpen in 2009 made them a good bet to have a good bullpen in 2010, right?
by circuitclout on Aug 24, 2010 11:36 AM CDT up reply actions
Caridad pitched in fewer than 20 innings.
No, I don’t think that’s enough to assume he would be good in 2010. And I said that repeatedly this spring.
Masset and Herrera each pitched more than 70 innings last year and had pitched in 2008.
so sometimes
relief pitchers develop from mediocre/bad pitchers into useful contributors in the bullpen?
by circuitclout on Aug 24, 2010 11:43 AM CDT up reply actions
Well, duh.
But no one (other than Marshall and Marmol) give me much hope. And the Reds, at this point last year, had more proven guys than we have now.
The hope is opinion. The numbers are fact.
got
so good performance by pitchers instills much hope but bad performance not so much. so explain again why the cubs should go shopping for “for a couple scrap-heap/lightning-in-a-bottle relievers” this offseason?
by circuitclout on Aug 24, 2010 11:54 AM CDT up reply actions
I honestly don't know what this sentence is supposed to mean.
“got so good performance by pitchers instills much hope but bad performance not so much.”
What in the what?
haha
supposed to say got it in the title. and not part of the sentence below.
sorry.
by circuitclout on Aug 24, 2010 12:00 PM CDT up reply actions
It's fine.
The Cubs should go looking for scrap-heap/lightning in a bottle relievers because the guys currently with the team are not enough to count on.
IN MY OPINION.
But the Cubs have shied away from reclamation projects in recent years in favor of unproven young relievers or overpaying for veterans (Grabow, Heilman and Gregg in terms of the trade, etc.)
Other teams find gold from bullpen discards. I wish the Cubs did more of this.
Fair enough you said "right handed"
But saying that Caridad was the primary set-up guy “going into the season” seems a bit deceptive as a formulation.
Generally people think of “going into the season” as reflecting what the GM assembled over the winter, not what happened as a result of a spring training injury. This was my point.
by The Deputy Mayor of Rush Street on Aug 24, 2010 11:52 AM CDT up reply actions
I wasn't trying to be deceptive.
My (possibly unnecessary) jab at Hendry was aimed at showing our lack of system bullpen depth — which became even worse when Guzman went down.
I do agree with you on the merits of trying to sign relief pitchers.
“Buying high” doesn’t generally do the trick, from what I can tell. It’s like reaching into a bag of acorns, hoping to pull a good one for that particular season.
I’d almost like to see a GM try to sign about 6 bullpen retreads at around a million each, let them fight it out in spring training, then put the 2-3 winners on the staff, while the losers go to Iowa to battle for first call-up.
by The Deputy Mayor of Rush Street on Aug 24, 2010 12:17 PM CDT up reply actions
While I'm not sure about your specific terms ...
I like the general idea. Bullpen’s are such a crapshoot, anyway.
I don't know if it's even feasible with how waivers work.
But I figure the guys who ‘lose’ in spring training wouldn’t be wanted much elsewhere. If they continue to suck in Iowa, drop them and make room for some of the kids.
by The Deputy Mayor of Rush Street on Aug 24, 2010 12:25 PM CDT up reply actions
ok
I may be a bit too optimistic on Fukudome – perhaps he wont be able (although his slash lines have improved every year) to but with a new manager and many young guys, perhaps fundamentals will begin to return next year. I admit that my projection of next year is an extremely optimistic one, but I honestly think that we are 2-3 pieces away from contention. That will take a good deal of luck, the Cardinals will have to have an injury or two and same with the Reds but again, a new manager, with some new ideas might be able to do that.
I agree that Hendry has had some messups in the bullpen area and again next year that will be the glaring weakness (barring a huge signing in the offseason) but stranger things have happened. Perhaps Coleman becomes a legit starter and Diamond becomes a decent 4-5 bullpen guy and we get a #3 bullpen guy via a smart FA signing.
I just dont think the Cubs have a less than 50% chance of succeeding next year even without Lee and Dunn.
I Love Larry - Brick are you looking at random things around the room and saying that you love them - I Love Larry
Currently 34,839 on the Season Ticket Wait List - Expected age of being #0: 119
by hansman1982 on Aug 24, 2010 10:29 AM CDT up reply actions
When you start throwing around phrases like "stranger things have happened" ...
you seriously dull my optimism. So much has to happen — as you pointed out — for the Cubs to make the playoffs, hansman. Just noting the ones you mentioned:
1) The Reds have to face injuries
2) The Cardinals have to face injuries
3) Coleman has to become a legit starter (so far, he has pitched effectively in one major league game)
4) Diamond has to become a decent reliever (so far, he’s pitched effectively in maybe two major league games)
5) Fundamentals have to emerge as young players make up a good portion of the roster (this one is extremely unlikely given the fact that we’re talking about young players and the Cubs organization)
6) Hendry makes a good bullpen signing, within budget.
Even Hendry realizes that this team, even with the continued development of young players, isn’t good enough to compete. Sign Dunn, sign Lilly, look for a couple scrap-heap/lightning-in-a-bottle relievers and pray for no major injuries … and the Cubs might be a few games over .500, have a shot at the Central or Wild Card and maybe, maybe sneak into the postseason.
That’s all I’m willing to hope for.
Sign Dunn, sign Lilly, look for a couple scrap-heap/lightning-in-a-bottle relievers and pray for no major injuries … and the Cubs might be a few games over .500, have a shot at the Central or Wild Card and maybe, maybe sneak into the postseason.
That’s all I’m willing to hope for.
I’LL TAKE IT!
"Well-behaved women seldom make History"---Laurel Thatcher Ulrich
by cooliogirl47 on Aug 24, 2010 10:44 AM CDT up reply actions
Me, too.
I think a lot of fans would as well, and I bet attendance wouldn’t drop if the Cubs did all of this.
me three!!!!
If the Cubs still have a chance, no matter how small, it’s still Go Cubs, damn the math and pass the KoolAid.
We're not getting Lilly back and the rotation sucks
Dempster is a low #2 or #3 starter and the rest are 4s at best. We have no #1, no ace.
"Any player who gets the opportunity to play at Wrigley should welcome it"
Because his price is going to skyrocket due to his excellent pitching since the move to LA
"Any player who gets the opportunity to play at Wrigley should welcome it"
The thought was that we'd get him back on the cheap
after the season since he’s getting old and coming off a sub par season but now he’s tearing it up in LA and screwing up our plan!
"Any player who gets the opportunity to play at Wrigley should welcome it"
And Ted has made noises that he wants to stay in LA
"I knew there had to be a place where the game could be fun again. I found that place. It's called Wrigley Field. It reminded that if you love the game, it will love you back." - Andre Dawson, HOF speech 7/25/10
hey
He’d be a fool to burn bridges…
"Wait, are you saying I'm a sunshine-pumping, koolaid-drinking, Soriano-loving, rainbow-rising, unicorn-riding, double-clutching, Sweet Lou-backing, Hendry-supporting, hey hey whaddya saying, Cubs are going all the waying, glass is overflowing, Rothschild is all-knowing, Cubs fan? - ballhawk
Not to single you out personally, Itchy
But it’s my observation that a number of people on the board tend to take a “the grass must be greener on the other side” view of the Cubs starters. I went on ESPN, took starters with 100+ IP and ranked them by pitching OPS (not a perfect measurement, not adjusted by park – but as a reasonable general measure of effectiveness.)
There are 120 pitchers in MLB who qualify as 100-IP starters.
Lilly – 22nd
Demp – 55th
Gorz – 58th
Silva – 59th
Wells – 78th
(Z would be 100th if he had enough innings)
Division-leading San Diego has Garland at 40th, Clayton Richard at 56th, Kevin Correia at 79th, and Wade LeBlanc at 95th. In a pitchers’ park. Not exactly a fearsome foursome.
Oh, and the Padres also have Mat Latos at #1. An 11th round pick (333rd overall) who made his debut in the middle of last season. I don’t think anyone’s ready to call him an “ace” yet.
Again, not to pick on you.. but we’ve had solid starting pitching overall in 2010. It’s the lack of hitting and bullpen that doomed the team this year. If we can get Lilly back, I think the team is all right in starting pitching for 2011. There are maybe a dozen, fifteen pitchers in all of baseball that deserve the “ace” designation.
by The Deputy Mayor of Rush Street on Aug 24, 2010 2:34 PM CDT up reply actions
Yes, and we don't have one
and St Louis has two. If you want to start to win and dominate, you have to have a frontline starter leading the way. SD is a fluke and will be exposed in due time. We do have some solid pieces, but need that bell cow to lead us to the promised land!
"Any player who gets the opportunity to play at Wrigley should welcome it"
I'm certainly not against us getting one ; )
Just saying that they aren’t falling off trees. I can’t think of any besides Cliff Lee that would be available this off-season, and the bidding will be fierce.
by The Deputy Mayor of Rush Street on Aug 24, 2010 2:57 PM CDT up reply actions
SD does have a front-line starter
Mat Latos is one of the best pitchers in the NL. He throws 95 MPH and has a devastating power slider. If SD fails it won’t be because of their starting rotation.
You sort of ignored something there
Mat Latos leads the NL in this stat. .557 OPS against. Pretty significant, when making that comparison. If the Cubs had Latos, I would feel much better about their rotation.
Didn't you hear? The Cubs are Latos-intolerant...
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
Read again. I put Latos in the next paragraph.
The fact that’s he’s pitching like an ace for 5 months of one season, doesn’t make him an “ace” like people think of Halliday, Sabathia, Carpenter, etc. I separated Latos to emphasize that point.
by The Deputy Mayor of Rush Street on Aug 24, 2010 3:52 PM CDT up reply actions
Latos is only 22.
Is he going to be that good forever? Maybe not. But right now, he is pitching as well as any of those guys.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
Latos has an ERA+ of 154.
Zambrano an ERA+ of 160 in ’04.
I wasn’t saying anything against Latos’ performance this year, the point I’m going at is that a pitcher having a great season /= “an ace pitcher” in the Halliday, Sabathia, Carpenter sense.
Lots of people on the board keep moaning about “Hendry has to get us an ace”. What I’m saying is that there just aren’t 30 “aces” out there where every team can have one. Not an ace in the way most baseball fans use the term as meaning a veteran, Cy Young-contending hurler. There may have been a year or two where people thought Z was at that level, but he never measured up in hindsight.
If someone wants to argue against the point I’m making, I’ll be happy to accommodate them.
by The Deputy Mayor of Rush Street on Aug 24, 2010 4:20 PM CDT up reply actions
I can dig it.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Aug 24, 2010 4:21 PM CDT up reply actions
Why does it have to be a vet though?
Was Lincecum not an ace last year because it was only his second full year in the league? He may be a bad example since he is a once in a generation talent but I am just wondering why an ace has to be a veteran.
"We love them, We mourn for them, Unlucky boys of Red" - Morrissey
"Giggs gets past Viera, past Dixon, who comes back at him, it's a wonderful run from GIGGS!!!" - Martin Tyler
"He's got a man deep..wait, no that IS Mandeep!!" - Don Taylor
by Section 312 on Aug 24, 2010 5:51 PM CDT up reply actions
I'm talking about the general fan definition of an "ace" pitcher.
If the Cubs had acquired Latos before this season, no one would be talking about our “ace”, it would be our “rookie phenom” if anything. I would call Lincecum an “ace” at this point, but that’s only after his second Cy Young.
To my mind, Lincecum would have been the Giants #1 pitcher last year as defending Cy Young, but I wouldn’t have called him an “ace” until he proved it wasn’t a one-hit wonder season. (I still question if that delivery will hold up long-term given he must be using muscles in ways no pitcher has before.)
by The Deputy Mayor of Rush Street on Aug 24, 2010 8:01 PM CDT up reply actions
I didn't misread your paragraph
You made the case that the Cubs could contend with the starting rotation they have because the Padres are contending with a similar rotation. I pointed out that using your metric, the Padres have the number 1 pitcher in the NL. This means that they are far different than the Cubs rotation.
If you can make the case that one of the Cubs starters is going to perform like Latos next season, then maybe your argument has some merit.
Your comments reminded me of a reason Colvin should get some time at first.
One problem with Cubs in recent years is that they had to sign guys at specific positions to fit specific lineup needs. After 2008, the Cubs decided they needed a lefty bat (or switch-hitter) who HAD to play right.
Putting aside the fact that they could have signed Edmonds to a 1-year deal — which someone should ask Hendry about, at some point — that made the Cubs’ options basically two players: Milton Bradley and Bobby Abreu. Dunn was NOT an option in right. And it’s amazing to me that some people long for him in retrospect there while saying he’s not good enough defensively at first.
Anyway, if Colvin can show that he can play first, the Cubs could look for another bat at three positions — first, right AND center (presumably Byrd could move to right). That means they’re not locked into potentially overpaying for Adam Dunn. Though I am a Dunn fan, if he can be signed at the right price.
Your comments reminded me of another good reason to try Colvin at first.
One problem with Cubs in recent years is that they had to sign guys at specific positions to fit specific lineup needs. After 2008, the Cubs decided they needed a lefty bat (or switch-hitter) who HAD to play right.
Putting aside the fact that they could have signed Edmonds to a 1-year deal — which someone should ask Hendry about, at some point — that made the Cubs’ options basically two players: Milton Bradley and Bobby Abreu. Dunn was NOT an option in right. And it’s amazing to me that some people long for him in retrospect there while saying he’s not good enough defensively at first.
Anyway, if Colvin can show that he can play first, the Cubs could look for another bat at three positions — first, right AND center (presumably Byrd could move to right). That means they’re not locked into potentially overpaying for Adam Dunn. Though I am a Dunn fan, if he can be signed at the right price.
You could say that again!
I didn't believe it last August, but it turns out that love survives.
Mount Washington conquered July 5, 2010! State high point count: 3/50
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Aug 24, 2010 8:42 AM CDT up reply actions
I think he did.
Skip: You guys. You lollygag the ball around the infield. You lollygag your way down to first. You lollygag in and out of the dugout. You know what that makes you? ... Larry?
Larry: Lollygaggers!
Skip: Lollygaggers.
Soriano
Where was he 6th or 7th? Finally move the lazy loser down in the line-up.
by Crown Point Bob on Aug 24, 2010 12:54 PM CDT up reply actions
Ramirez opting out would be a mixed bag
If he stays, the team owes him another $16.6M – freeing up that money could accelerate the generational transition on the team. What I don’t know is what the FA/trade market is like for 2B or 3B in the offseason (DeWitt at 3B could be an option for 2011).
before you project 3B wait till AZ League passes
And Ramirez is not going anywhere. $16M on the table where if the Cubs indeed trade him his 2012 contract is vested and that team would want him.
Only chance for a trade would be something like Atlanta or the NYY, if Atlanta finds that their 3B has retired or that the NYY’s 3B has to have a hip replacement (gross exxageration) or can’t play 3B AND
Ramirez bats .400 the rest of this year.
Piniella: "This is a tougher job than I thought it would be, I'm going to be honest with you."
ClarkFan is not suggesting a trade.
He’s wondering if Aramis will opt out.
he probably will anyway
if you consider what’s available at 3B, the state of the Cubs franchise, and the money involved it all points to ramirez’s best option being to opt out and take his chances on the open market. if he continues on, as Al pointed out the other day, an MVP-level tear he’ll get a 2 to 3 year deal with an option that will far exceed the $16 mil or so he’s guaranteed.
by circuitclout on Aug 24, 2010 10:27 AM CDT up reply actions
It would take a brave GM to sign him for enough to make it worthwhile
Guy has had serious injury issues two years in a row. Unrelated, maybe bad luck, I think a GM would want to see one healthy year before shelling out 3/36.
anyone having technical problems with BCB right now or is it just me
…all the new comments have disappeared on me on the whole site
"Well-behaved women seldom make History"---Laurel Thatcher Ulrich
I still see the comments,
but on the rest of the site they are not distinguishing between read and unread.
"Fasten those seatbelts!"-Pat Hughes
Same here.
Also, I had some trouble finding this post as when I first checked BCB this morning, it was on the front page.
I didn't believe it last August, but it turns out that love survives.
Mount Washington conquered July 5, 2010! State high point count: 3/50
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Aug 24, 2010 8:36 AM CDT up reply actions
all mine are marked read
I just submitted the issue to the help people (following the contact us link).
Nice win.
Too bad it wasn’t on ‘GN…No Extra Innings cable package for me (I chose the NHL Center Ice package instead, as more Cubs game are on nationally than Hawks games, and those sports cable packages ain’t cheap) Even though the season is lost, I still flip on the game when they’re on (WGN, ESPN, Fox) and hope for a W…as much of us do, obviously. So, I kinda get bummed when I miss out on a good win, bad season or not.
"What the hell, let's review it." - Dale Tallon
"They are!" - Pat Foley
"What a farce." - Dale Tallon
Nice. Thanks for the heads up, Al
Let’s hope for a repeat performance, eh?
"What the hell, let's review it." - Dale Tallon
"They are!" - Pat Foley
"What a farce." - Dale Tallon
Quade set speed record to mound. Needs to gain weight!
When Quade went to get Coleman, it seemed like a sprint compared to Lou and the noticeable absence of stomach girth is probably to blame. I joke, but I was surprised how fast all that took!
Comcast did a nice story on Quade with an interview from his high school coach. Didn’t know he had lost all his hair at an early age. found it interesting he was bald in the 70’s playing basketball and probably took a lot of grief for the lack of hair. He might be able to handle some taunts from opposing fans easily!
Nice win. Take note who it cam against, but a win is a win.
This is only the beginning....Lou Pinella end of '07 season and Chicago Transit Authority (the band when they were really good).
and thats just it
the Cubs have done decent against the top of the divisions but sucked royally against the bottom feeders…
I Love Larry - Brick are you looking at random things around the room and saying that you love them - I Love Larry
Currently 34,839 on the Season Ticket Wait List - Expected age of being #0: 119
Completely forgot to mention this in the recap.
Marlon Byrd got hit in his hand by a pitch — X-rays negative, he’s day-to-day.
That HBP was his 17th of the season. That ties the Cubs’ post-1900 single season record, which has stood for 105 years. Yes, that’s right, the record was held by Frank Chance, who got hit 17 times in 1905.
The all-time record is 23, set by Bill Dahlen in 1894.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
And Byrd "accomplished" it before the end of August.
One of Lee Elia's 15%
by waiting4cubs on Aug 24, 2010 8:45 AM CDT up reply actions
My guess is ...
this will delay Colvin’s debut at first. I bet Colvin starts in center tonight.
Fuld in center?
Keep at Colvin at first.
"You've got to get your damn shirts rolled up and go out and kick somebody's ass. That's what you've got to do. Period." -- Lou Piniella
I figured.
I’ve been out of the loop the past few days…figures. I would have liked to have seen him stay up here, I wish someone would just claim Nady on waivers already.
"You've got to get your damn shirts rolled up and go out and kick somebody's ass. That's what you've got to do. Period." -- Lou Piniella
Imagine what Byrd could do
if we got him some of that Barry Bonds “chicken s—-” body armor to go up to the plate with.
by The Deputy Mayor of Rush Street on Aug 24, 2010 11:32 AM CDT up reply actions
It was a fun game to watch
and fun game thread. Congrats to Quade on his first win as manager of the Cubs. Nice outing by Coleman too.
A lovely story:
One day, long, long ago, there lived a woman who didn't whine, nag or bitch. That would be me....
But that was a long time ago and it was just that one day.
The end
It was a fun game to watch
and fun game thread. Congrats to Quade on his first win as manager of the Cubs. Nice outing by Coleman too.
A lovely story:
One day, long, long ago, there lived a woman who didn't whine, nag or bitch. That would be me....
But that was a long time ago and it was just that one day.
The end
SBN seems to be a bit whacky this morning.
A lovely story:
One day, long, long ago, there lived a woman who didn't whine, nag or bitch. That would be me....
But that was a long time ago and it was just that one day.
The end
It crashed on me a few minutes ago, but I was able to reload with no problem.
One of Lee Elia's 15%
by waiting4cubs on Aug 24, 2010 8:45 AM CDT up reply actions
They are aware of the issues and are working on them.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
" That pro-rates to 109 runs, 46 HR and 136 RBI over a 162-game season."
Why does it seems like we’re always using the word “pro-rate” when we talk about A-Ram? The last few year we’ve been pro-rating his stats… how about we just rate them? And say he’s going to get injured all the time now?
What is a horse shoe? What does a horse shoe do? Are there any horse socks? Is anybody listening to me?
Dunn
Enjoyable game to watch. Need more to hand out votes of confidence. Liked DeWitt leading-off, liked Quade’s lineup, liked Colman and Cashner’s efforts. We can watch what Dunn does against Cub pitching in this series. So far, he’s a bad fit IMO and therefore a pass. Let some other team sign him to a long term deal.
Dunn strikes out too much
The Cubs have Soriano and Colvin, for two, who currently strikeout alot with a fairly good chance of that continuing into next year. Adding Dunn doesn’t work with that going on.
Just meant this was a good opportunity to focus on what Dunn does, not that he should be only considered based this series.
by AboutTheCubs on Aug 24, 2010 10:19 AM CDT up reply actions
Exactly.
And when you check out what Dunn does, please look at the “Walks” column.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
Dunn has a great OBP, historically. He walks a lot.
What exactly are you saying, Al?
BTW, I’m not saying we MUST or SHOULD sign Dunn. But I think the Cubs will do it, based on what I’ve read, what the Cubs need and what else is available.
And — FOR THE RIGHT PRICE — it’s not a bad idea at all. Who would be better?
I think Al is saying
that his Walks may offset his high K rate – he does have a 162 game average of 111 walks to 182 K’s with a pretty consistant 150+ games played…like you said – for the right price, the right number of years and no damn NTC I would love to have him as a Cub
I Love Larry - Brick are you looking at random things around the room and saying that you love them - I Love Larry
Currently 34,839 on the Season Ticket Wait List - Expected age of being #0: 119
by hansman1982 on Aug 24, 2010 10:45 AM CDT up reply actions
I'm trying to get people to NOT focus on the strikeouts.
Here’s another point. People bitched over and over about the high GIDP count for Derrek Lee.
Dunn grounds into very few double plays.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
true
and Lee has about 8 more outs via GIDP (which can instantly kill a rally) and 40 fewer walks (via 162 game average)
I Love Larry - Brick are you looking at random things around the room and saying that you love them - I Love Larry
Currently 34,839 on the Season Ticket Wait List - Expected age of being #0: 119
by hansman1982 on Aug 24, 2010 11:00 AM CDT up reply actions
this is silly, but I would pray he would just strike out when there was a man on first,
I wasn’t even hoping for a hit anymore….and please dont jump on me, I loved Lee but that was frustration I felt from the whole team.
"Well-behaved women seldom make History"---Laurel Thatcher Ulrich
by cooliogirl47 on Aug 24, 2010 11:04 AM CDT up reply actions
Dunn looking at it
Lee is off the team so we don’t have to worry about his double plays.
We don’t need a hitter like Dunn. After taking a look at S/Os, walks, hits and at bats, still say we already have Soriano and Colvin. They would be paying a high premium for the incrementally higher slugging.
by AboutTheCubs on Aug 24, 2010 2:07 PM CDT up reply actions
I disagree....
Dunn walks more than those two combined, and anyway you want to cut it…Dunn makes less outs than those two. He’s a better hitter.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Aug 24, 2010 2:10 PM CDT up reply actions
Dunn makes less outs than those two.
Precisely.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
It's the fundamental goal of a hitter. Dunn does it better than almost any other player we have.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Aug 24, 2010 2:31 PM CDT up reply actions
Yep.
I’m not 100% sold on him, but given the right price, he may be the best choice.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
I am in the same boat
except I am more 50/50 – if we get him for a good deal then great - if not then I am hoping that we have a 1 year 1b to see if we have a shot at Gonzalez….I dont want Fielder AT ALL
I Love Larry - Brick are you looking at random things around the room and saying that you love them - I Love Larry
Currently 34,839 on the Season Ticket Wait List - Expected age of being #0: 119
Why not Fielder?
Over time, his body will prevent him from playing. But for the next 2-3 years?
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
Fielder is a Boras client.
No one’s getting him for less than 5 years, unless Boras can’t find a sucker. And he’s almost always able to find one. (I think he whiffed on bluffing Johnny Damon into another big contract)
But whoever gets him, it will be at the end of Free Agency after next season. That’s why the Brewers can’t get much in a trade, there’s no chance at an extension.
by The Deputy Mayor of Rush Street on Aug 24, 2010 5:19 PM CDT up reply actions
Boras and Hendry have always gotten along pretty well.
Just sayin’.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
Okay, SWL, you finally convinced me,
I’m now in the get Adam Dunn camp, for the reasons Al details below.
I didn't believe it last August, but it turns out that love survives.
Mount Washington conquered July 5, 2010! State high point count: 3/50
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Aug 24, 2010 3:03 PM CDT up reply actions
Don't cancel
I would still see the point if he had as many walks as he does strikeouts, but walks don’t cancel strikeouts or any outs. What happens for each plate appearance is separate. Walks are separate from hits too and they along with outs happen under different circumstances. It is good to be able to tell when a pitch is not in the strike zone. But it isn’t good to swing at pitches and strikeout. Where do you think Dunn would be in the batting order?
Was just saying Dunn strikesout and the Cubs already have players, who are likely to be around, who do their share of the same.
by AboutTheCubs on Aug 24, 2010 9:59 PM CDT up reply actions
You're points are true...
but have nothing to do with anything. Nobody has claimed walks are magical and cancel out anything. The rest is just stating random things.
Dunn would probably hit 4th or 5th and Ramirez would most likely hit 3rd or 4th. That’s my guess.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Aug 25, 2010 12:17 AM CDT up reply actions
For example
It would have been much better if Dunn had gotten pitches to hit last night instead of the walk, then Morgan would have scored. We know what happened instead. Dunn should be hitting somewhere else in the order probably lower and maybe 2nd. it isn’t good to have too many players in the lineup who strikeout alot. Nothing about this is random. I’m taking about fit in what I think the Cubs lineup will have next year and Al said above Dunn’s strikeouts aren’t a big deal because he walks alot.
by AboutTheCubs on Aug 25, 2010 8:43 AM CDT up reply actions
We're talking about a guy who is a .250 career hitter
Slice it anyway you want, the guy isn’t a good hitter. He’s good at hitting home runs, but that’s about it.
Agreed.
But can I judge him by his .190 batting average this season with RISP. (and .228 for his career)
Auto racing writer, SB Nation Indiana. Because in 49 other states, it's just sports!
by Bill Potter on Aug 24, 2010 10:58 AM CDT up reply actions
Certainly...
if you also judge him on his batting average with runners NOT in scoring position, too. He’s knocking ’em in from somewhere.
Joe Girardi...2011 Chicago Cubs Manager...Book it!!
True.
And while I wouldn’t be against the signing, I’m just sounding an early warning that Dunn isn’t the cure-all. (In Dunn’s defense, were he to sign with the Cubs, his porous batting average with RISP would require runners to actually reach base in front of him.)
Auto racing writer, SB Nation Indiana. Because in 49 other states, it's just sports!
who's here touting Adam Dunn as a cure all?
The guy walks a lot and hits 40 HR every year with blah defense. Everyone is pretty much aware of this.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Aug 24, 2010 2:27 PM CDT up reply actions
You don't think a Dunn signing will cause people to look at him as a cure-all?
Not everyone, but there will be a segment expecting Dunn to solve the offensive problems of this team.
Auto racing writer, SB Nation Indiana. Because in 49 other states, it's just sports!
Well hell-fire Bill!!! We can't sign him I guess...some fans might get it in their heads that he was supposed to fix everything!
This is a ridiculous reason to not try and sign a player to an affordable contract that will help the team offensively.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Aug 24, 2010 2:34 PM CDT up reply actions
Show me where I said not to sign Dunn.
Two years ago I was against it, but I have no problems with signing Dunn this off-season for a reasonable contract.
I have my concerns about the guy, principally his defense, and while I don’t like the fact that he doesn’t hit well with RISP, it’s not a reason to not sign him.
Auto racing writer, SB Nation Indiana. Because in 49 other states, it's just sports!
a great win
Living only thirty five miles from Washington and having been a cub fan for over sixty years, it was a GREAT WIN and had to watch it on MASN, what a crock to have to listen to two of the worst broadcasters in the world Bob Carpenter and Rob Dibble ((what a bunch of cry babies)). By the third inning they were talking about stuff that did not even pretain to the game..Looking forward to this evenings game on WGN and hope it don"t rain any more..GO CUBS>>>>Keep up the GREAT work Al
Len wasn't exactly on his A-game.
He actually spent several minutes talking about the letter Q.
Len wasn't exactly on his A-game.
He actually spent several minutes talking about the letter Q.
nice!
Should play that song after every win.
"Fasten those seatbelts!"-Pat Hughes
by katie casey on Aug 24, 2010 10:49 AM CDT up reply actions
lol...that would be a perfect victory song
"Well-behaved women seldom make History"---Laurel Thatcher Ulrich
by cooliogirl47 on Aug 24, 2010 11:05 AM CDT up reply actions
I heard some of Dibble via MLB Network recently..
calling out Strasberg for letting the team down and babying his (multi-million dollar) arm. Interesting choice, ripping the new face of the franchise…
Was that a one off for Dibble?
by The Deputy Mayor of Rush Street on Aug 24, 2010 11:35 AM CDT up reply actions
Some good stuff
last nite, but it really was disturbing for me to see Soriano turn an inside-the-park home run into a triple. Some things will never change.
Hey Lou, we're long overdue.
Willie Harris turned a double into a triple
Nice flop, but this isn’t World Cup soccer.
"They come to see me strike out, hit a home run, or run into a fence. I try to accommodate them at least one way every game." - Gorman Thomas
by RiskyBusiness on Aug 24, 2010 9:59 AM CDT up reply actions
Blake DeWitt
My first impression was that he’s a poor man’s Todd Walker without the pouty pants attitude, but maybe he’s going to turn out to be a pleasant surprise. He’s sure been locked in the last few games.
by Mike Vails Evil Twin on Aug 24, 2010 10:29 AM CDT reply actions
Poor man's Todd Walker...
… could be a very good comp.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
Who knows..
…he could end up being a better player than Walker. I was big Walker fan, he was pretty good in 2003 and 2004, but his career took awhile to really get going. DeWitt’s a better fielder, he’s got some work to do, but he could be a better player than Walker.
"You've got to get your damn shirts rolled up and go out and kick somebody's ass. That's what you've got to do. Period." -- Lou Piniella
You know I was thinking he could be a young Sandberg.
He just shows some of the same mannerisms. If he can continue to develop that power stroke that may be quite a pick up for the future, especially since he is cost controlled.
This is only the beginning....Lou Pinella end of '07 season and Chicago Transit Authority (the band when they were really good).
I don't know if I'd go that far
He doesn’t have Sandberg’s range, but my opinion of him has improved considerably in the last week. He certainly seems to have more power than than he did at first.
by Mike Vails Evil Twin on Aug 24, 2010 12:53 PM CDT up reply actions
I feared DeWitt is Walker re-incarnate.
Your starting, LH, line-drive .300 BA 2Bman on your 90 loss team. But if he is a poor man’s Walker, than I definitely want no part. I also fear he is truly a 3Bmen.
I hope he does better than Walker, but for now, without getting my Cubs hopes too high, will settle for considering him a Walker-reincarnate…with upside potential.
"I'd rather hit home runs you don't have to run as hard." -- Dave Kingman
by BucknerKongCardenal on Aug 24, 2010 11:08 PM CDT up reply actions
I was thinking Mark Bellhorn the other day but Walker works too.
It’s nice having that 2B/3B flexibility in a player when you have an injury prone starter at 3B (ARam).
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
A Hall of Famer once wore #54 for the Cubs.
Name him. (Without looking at your copy of “Cubs By The Numbers” or going to the CBTN website.)
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
fergie?
"Well-behaved women seldom make History"---Laurel Thatcher Ulrich
by cooliogirl47 on Aug 24, 2010 11:19 AM CDT up reply actions
duh, I forgot we just retired his # :((
"Well-behaved women seldom make History"---Laurel Thatcher Ulrich
by cooliogirl47 on Aug 24, 2010 11:36 AM CDT up reply actions
And he wore #31, anyway.
I didn't believe it last August, but it turns out that love survives.
Mount Washington conquered July 5, 2010! State high point count: 3/50
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Aug 24, 2010 11:55 AM CDT up reply actions
I know!...what's wrong with me :(
"Well-behaved women seldom make History"---Laurel Thatcher Ulrich
by cooliogirl47 on Aug 24, 2010 12:23 PM CDT up reply actions
You rang?
Starlin Castro singles on a pop up to catcher Jason LaRue.
Ryan Theriot scores. Two out -Gameday 7/23/10
by Sandberg's evil twin on Aug 24, 2010 3:21 PM CDT up reply actions
@_@
I didn't believe it last August, but it turns out that love survives.
Mount Washington conquered July 5, 2010! State high point count: 3/50
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Aug 24, 2010 3:23 PM CDT up reply actions
just looked...great trivia question!
:)
"Well-behaved women seldom make History"---Laurel Thatcher Ulrich
by cooliogirl47 on Aug 24, 2010 11:24 AM CDT up reply actions
Goose?
"All I want is food and creative love" - Rusted Root
by TheRiot Police on Aug 24, 2010 11:51 AM CDT up reply actions
David Patton?
I didn't believe it last August, but it turns out that love survives.
Mount Washington conquered July 5, 2010! State high point count: 3/50
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Aug 24, 2010 11:52 AM CDT up reply actions
i was very disappointed that Quade
didn’t make a statement by sitting Soriano after his terrible baserunning on the triple. It would have said volumes to many of us and documented that the team will no longer be allowed to play at their own pace.
BTW, I believe Quade mentioned that the Colvin move to 1B isn’t necessarily a done deal. If that’s true, there may have been some disagreement among the coaches over Lou’s decisions. It could have been an issue that was beneath the surface. The coaches sure seemed much happier for Quade’s win than I expected. But, at the end of the day, it’s only one game in a terrible season.
If a quality pitching start is 3 runs and 6 innings, then a quality hitting day is 1 for 4.
Byrd had gotten hurt earlier that inning
Even if he had wanted to make a stronger statement, with Byrd coming out of the game it would have been a bit difficult to pull Soriano too. Then you’re looking at Hoff or Baker in LF….
It's a simple question, Doctor: would you eat the moon if it were made of ribs??
by Invalid User on Aug 24, 2010 11:42 AM CDT up reply actions
On the radio pre-game, I took it as if
Colvin is taking balls there and is not very good yet. It’s something they want him to do but it’s going to take some time. That would explain not going there right away. What was the last level that he played any 1st base?
This is only the beginning....Lou Pinella end of '07 season and Chicago Transit Authority (the band when they were really good).
Tball
We can't win at home. We can't win on the road. I just can't figure out where else to play!
-- Pat Williams
by Fat Punk Kicker on Aug 24, 2010 1:17 PM CDT up reply actions
Sophomore year
at Clemson
"All I want is food and creative love" - Rusted Root
by TheRiot Police on Aug 24, 2010 1:25 PM CDT up reply actions
and it was
not much time….
"All I want is food and creative love" - Rusted Root
by TheRiot Police on Aug 24, 2010 1:25 PM CDT up reply actions
Bravo
Quade blew a great chance to put his personality on this team by pulling Soriano after that lazy millionaire got his triple…instead of the inside of the park homer!
My sentiments also. Where was Sori hitting 6th or 7th? Good.
by Crown Point Bob on Aug 24, 2010 12:56 PM CDT up reply actions
17,921
Congratulations to chilango2 for correctly taking the under.
Better luck next time to The Deputy Mayor for choosing poorly on the over.
Tonite’s Attendance Line is set at 18,740. over or under. 1000 BCB $ buy-in.
this will be repeated in the preview/first pitch threads.
good luck and happy wagering
WWOZ.org - New Orleans Jazz and Heritage Station
I was going to go under.
But then I realized it’s t-shirt Tuesday at the park. I’ll take the over, barely.
Auto racing writer, SB Nation Indiana. Because in 49 other states, it's just sports!
by Bill Potter on Aug 24, 2010 11:58 AM CDT up reply actions
This is why I never gamble. I completely suck at it.
50 BCB $ that were mine, are now yours.
I hope you choke on them, damn you!!
by The Deputy Mayor of Rush Street on Aug 24, 2010 12:11 PM CDT up reply actions
If people stopped doing the things they completely suck at
then we wouldn’t have the Chicago Cubs.
amiright?
;)
WWOZ.org - New Orleans Jazz and Heritage Station
by Gibbon Jockey on Aug 24, 2010 12:33 PM CDT up reply actions
I counted 40,000 Headmen...I'll take the over
"Well-behaved women seldom make History"---Laurel Thatcher Ulrich
by cooliogirl47 on Aug 24, 2010 12:23 PM CDT up reply actions
Al, I see you mentioned Randy Wells
at the end of your recap. Is anyone else concerned with Randy Wells going into next season? I know he’s had some really good starts this season, but it seems he’s been not good more often than not. His inconsistency concerns me, I know he had a solid rookie year last season, but I’m not sold on him long-term. Personally, I look at H per IP, and he get’s hit too much.
So before the Cubs even consider Coleman for a spot in the rotation, let alone the bullpen, I think they need to re-assess the rotation. For my money, what Coleman did last night was his Ryan O’Malley moment.
The probably will keep Wells going into next season, but I’d look into trading him in the offseason.
"You've got to get your damn shirts rolled up and go out and kick somebody's ass. That's what you've got to do. Period." -- Lou Piniella
Personally, I'm bullish on Wells.
We had high hopes for Rich Hill, and he totally spit the bit in year two. That Wells is getting through his sophomore campaign in reasonable fashion makes me think that he’s got a chance to contribute for awhile yet. And he’s cost-controlled for at least a couple more years.
He’s going to have to take a major step to show he’s anything more than a 3rd/4th starter type, but that doesn’t make him worthless at the end of your rotation.
by The Deputy Mayor of Rush Street on Aug 24, 2010 12:23 PM CDT up reply actions
Playoff series are won on the backs of 3rd/4th starters.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Aug 24, 2010 12:33 PM CDT up reply actions
And lights-out 1's and 2's also.
This is where I see an immediate need for next season. Z is no longer a #1. Dempster probably at best is a #2-3. I could see signing two starters for next year and trading someone. Guys like Smarj, Coleman, Wells and Silva……we just don’t have room for all of them.
This is only the beginning....Lou Pinella end of '07 season and Chicago Transit Authority (the band when they were really good).
Clement and Zambrano in 2003.
They were pretty good.
"You've got to get your damn shirts rolled up and go out and kick somebody's ass. That's what you've got to do. Period." -- Lou Piniella
And whoever the Sox had in 2005.
"You've got to get your damn shirts rolled up and go out and kick somebody's ass. That's what you've got to do. Period." -- Lou Piniella
Zambrano
cost us Game 1 of the NLCS….terrible start. He ruined Prior’s Career…. :)
"All I want is food and creative love" - Rusted Root
by TheRiot Police on Aug 24, 2010 1:27 PM CDT up reply actions
Strawman much?
I didn’t say anything about playoffs, nor did the post I was responding to.
by The Deputy Mayor of Rush Street on Aug 24, 2010 2:41 PM CDT up reply actions
I was just agreeing with you, and saying that 3rd and 4th starters are IMPORTANT.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Aug 24, 2010 2:42 PM CDT up reply actions
It would be more fun
If you went to the next step of saying that they were more important than Albert Pujols.
Starlin Castro singles on a pop up to catcher Jason LaRue.
Ryan Theriot scores. Two out -Gameday 7/23/10
by Sandberg's evil twin on Aug 24, 2010 2:44 PM CDT up reply actions
Jason Marquis is more valuable than Albert Pujols.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Aug 24, 2010 2:45 PM CDT up reply actions
and Fuld over Cliff Lee.
Starlin Castro singles on a pop up to catcher Jason LaRue.
Ryan Theriot scores. Two out -Gameday 7/23/10
by Sandberg's evil twin on Aug 24, 2010 3:00 PM CDT up reply actions
See, I think he's more of a 4-5 pitcher
a 4 at best at this point. I’m sure he can continue to be a decent inning-eater, but I think he’s tradeable. If we could include him in a package with top prospects for Greinke, I’d do it in a heartbeat. I just think Wells gets hit too much to ever be anything better than a #4 starter. Gorzellany is looking more like a #3 starter going into next season. I would be excited to see a rotation of: Greinke, Dempster, Gorz, Zambrano, Silva next season.
"You've got to get your damn shirts rolled up and go out and kick somebody's ass. That's what you've got to do. Period." -- Lou Piniella
You are paying him
league minimums….I think 4th/5th quality is fine. It allows u to allocate your assets towards better talent…i.e. no 10mil to Marquis types. Sure, it would be great if he was more, but I think he is just fine for what his role is. Expecting more out of him is reaching a little too high, IMO
"All I want is food and creative love" - Rusted Root
by TheRiot Police on Aug 24, 2010 1:29 PM CDT up reply actions
Exactly, I'm not expecting him to be more than a #4.
But he is currently our #2 or #3 and we can’t have that going into next season. I am not suggesting getting a Jason Marquis-like pitcher to replace him as we already have Z, Gorz (who is better than Wells and costs about the same, and is the same age), and Silva who can all take his place.
Trade him, there’s value in Wells.
"You've got to get your damn shirts rolled up and go out and kick somebody's ass. That's what you've got to do. Period." -- Lou Piniella
I would say he is at 4 right now...
By default Dempster is #1, Gorz or Zambrano is #2, the loser of the Gorz/Z Cage Match is #3 and wells is #4, and Rookie X is #5.
Now…is that rotation going to get you anywhere….probably not.
"All I want is food and creative love" - Rusted Root
by TheRiot Police on Aug 24, 2010 3:43 PM CDT up reply actions
The only way to be content with Wells is to consider him a #5
He is cost-controlled and either spot on or bat-meet-ball. A poor man’s Marquis…he should probably be allowed to throw 100 pitches each game even when getting drubbed just to save the bullpen over the season…no yanking him in the 1st inning anymore. Consider him a #5 for next season and anything else he might do (any improvement) will just be icing. If the Cubs consider him for anything more going into next season the BLou will break out of me.
"I'd rather hit home runs you don't have to run as hard." -- Dave Kingman
by BucknerKongCardenal on Aug 24, 2010 11:19 PM CDT up reply actions
Wells needs work to become a consistent 3/4 starter
his performance lately hasn’t proven he’s anything more than a journeyman 5th starter.
"Any player who gets the opportunity to play at Wrigley should welcome it"
Well, he was the second best pitcher we had last year
Consistency has been a problem this year, but I’d definitely say he’s better than a journeyman 5th starter.
Caption
“And then Country Joe West desends to the stage in a gold sequined jump suit! I tell ya, I cried like a school girl!”
Don't look now, but there's one too many in this room and I think it's you.
Soriano
After Soriano’s triple (which should have been an inside the park homer) I was hoping Quade had the balls to pull him out for a pinch runner. If you don’t hustle, you don’t play!! But no, he kow tow’s to the big money lazy player. You don’t have a second chance to make a good impression.
by Crown Point Bob on Aug 24, 2010 12:49 PM CDT reply actions
Was there any reason you posted this four different times in this thread?
Once would have been enough.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
I think we need to go easy on players like ARam and Soriano!
They are very tired at this point in the season and should not have to hustle!
The manager is just going to piss them off by holding them to the same standard other players are held to, and that’s not fair!
These guys make A LOT of money and we do not need them getting hurt trying to beat out a hit, fielding a grounder, or running fast!
Hopefully the team will follow Soriano’s leadership last night and tone it down! There is no reason for trying for the new manager! Byrd hustles all the time and look what it got him….a hurt hand!
I hope both players are in the lineup tonight batting 3-4! Quade should show how much he approves of this play!
I was wondering that myself.
Guess sori really bugged him last night. A second chance to make a good impression…lol..right. It was a bad mistake a number of players have made this season on the team…and by that I mean just mental errors. Worrying about making a statement for this horrid team on the first day seems worthless.
Starlin Castro singles on a pop up to catcher Jason LaRue.
Ryan Theriot scores. Two out -Gameday 7/23/10
by Sandberg's evil twin on Aug 24, 2010 3:03 PM CDT up reply actions
I can read, you know.
You’ve posted this four or five times in this thread.
I understood it the first time.
I didn't believe it last August, but it turns out that love survives.
Mount Washington conquered July 5, 2010! State high point count: 3/50
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Aug 24, 2010 3:06 PM CDT up reply actions
Photo caption:
Ok, let’s try this again. You see that mound of dirt over there? That’s where the “pitcher” stands. Are you with me so far? Good. Now, when he throws the ball…
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
You THROW the ball... you HIT the ball... you CATCH the ball!!
by The Deputy Mayor of Rush Street on Aug 24, 2010 2:44 PM CDT up reply actions
sometimes you win...sometimes you lose...sometimes is rains.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Aug 24, 2010 2:46 PM CDT up reply actions
Bet ya $50 I can get us a rainout tonight.
by The Deputy Mayor of Rush Street on Aug 24, 2010 3:05 PM CDT up reply actions
I want to bring the heater. Announce my presence with authority.
Starlin Castro singles on a pop up to catcher Jason LaRue.
Ryan Theriot scores. Two out -Gameday 7/23/10
by Sandberg's evil twin on Aug 24, 2010 3:08 PM CDT up reply actions
I'm wondering why you think it's easy to see that DeWitt is obviously
a better hitter than Fonty or even Theriot. Small sample size here. I think it is easy to say he has more power perhaps, other than that…all we know is he has performed well for awhile, something Fonty has done before fading, and Theriot also, though with much less power. I sure hope he turns out to be a better hitter, I have to admit I have not followed the games lately as I have earlier in the season…just saying though that this is a small sample size and we don’t know yet whether he will be the same hitter, worse, or better over the course of a season to me.
Starlin Castro singles on a pop up to catcher Jason LaRue.
Ryan Theriot scores. Two out -Gameday 7/23/10
by Sandberg's evil twin on Aug 24, 2010 1:13 PM CDT reply actions
You could be right.
The key, I think, is that he’s only 25 and thus has a chance to get better, while the others were quite a bit older than that when they first became regular players.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
Plus
Dodger stadium just zaps your power at night. May benefit a little from Wrigley…although I fully understand that it is a pitcher’s ballpark when the wind blows in…which tend to be a lot.
"All I want is food and creative love" - Rusted Root
by TheRiot Police on Aug 24, 2010 1:31 PM CDT up reply actions
Well his age is different yes.
And I’m sure no scout, perhaps there are things to see in his swing or batting approach you can extrapolate from. I just hope you are right either way, sure would be nice to get a good hitter from the Lilly trade.
Starlin Castro singles on a pop up to catcher Jason LaRue.
Ryan Theriot scores. Two out -Gameday 7/23/10
by Sandberg's evil twin on Aug 24, 2010 1:44 PM CDT up reply actions
Theriot was 27 in his first full season, DeWitt 22 (though he spent most of last season in the minors)
For prospects, that makes a lot of difference. Most players are said to peak at 27 (absent P.E.D.‘s). It’s part of why I marvel at what 20-year old Starlin Castro is doing.
by The Deputy Mayor of Rush Street on Aug 24, 2010 2:52 PM CDT up reply actions
I sure hope that was the reason Theriot seemed so set in his ways this year.
With his performance for us over the years he surely didn’t have any reason to be ignoring direction. I hope with DeWitt being much younger he is open to suggestions and being coached.
Starlin Castro singles on a pop up to catcher Jason LaRue.
Ryan Theriot scores. Two out -Gameday 7/23/10
by Sandberg's evil twin on Aug 24, 2010 2:57 PM CDT up reply actions
There is the occasional late-bloomer..
But pretty much experience tells us Riot is as good a player today as he figures to be.
As Michael Jordan showed us, it’s hard to learn baseball instincts at an advanced age. Theriot will be a TOOTBLAN for as long as they let him play.
by The Deputy Mayor of Rush Street on Aug 24, 2010 3:16 PM CDT up reply actions
Soriano
Quade blew a great chance to put his personality on this team by pulling Soriano after that lazy millionaire got his triple…instead of the inside of the park homer!
i got nuthin
The Fire Mike Quade Campaign begins on the second day of his tenure.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Aug 24, 2010 2:11 PM CDT up reply actions
They discussed the Quade over Trammell argument here on sports radio yesterday in STL.
Seemed amusing to me that anyone outside of Chicago would think at this point in the season it had any meaning. But then they always have the slant here of wanting to poke fun at the Cubs at the end of the argument so I shouldn’t be surprised I suppose.
Starlin Castro singles on a pop up to catcher Jason LaRue.
Ryan Theriot scores. Two out -Gameday 7/23/10
by Sandberg's evil twin on Aug 24, 2010 2:29 PM CDT up reply actions
But what did Bill McClellan say?
Whatever it was, we can be assured it didn’t make any sense.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
LOL
I’d bet you dollars to doughnuts his column didn’t talk about baseball when the plan was announced. Yes if he does write about it , it probably will be illogical and silly to most baseball fans including me.
Starlin Castro singles on a pop up to catcher Jason LaRue.
Ryan Theriot scores. Two out -Gameday 7/23/10
by Sandberg's evil twin on Aug 24, 2010 2:35 PM CDT up reply actions
Wow...you guys are a tough crowd...
the Cubs were up 5-0, one out, 20 games UNDER .500, 21 games out of 1st and you want a manager, who is “auditioning” for a job next year, to piss off one of the mainstays of next years squad by benching him in the 3rd inning to show him who’s boss? That might have not been such a good idea. Hopefully, Quade said something to him behind closed doors, but, ridiculing a player may not look good on a resume’.
Joe Girardi...2011 Chicago Cubs Manager...Book it!!
Crown Point Bob?
Is that you?
I didn't believe it last August, but it turns out that love survives.
Mount Washington conquered July 5, 2010! State high point count: 3/50
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Aug 24, 2010 3:07 PM CDT up reply actions
I heard his jacuzzi is broken.
Probably wasn’t stretched out before the game.
Starlin Castro singles on a pop up to catcher Jason LaRue.
Ryan Theriot scores. Two out -Gameday 7/23/10
by Sandberg's evil twin on Aug 24, 2010 3:10 PM CDT up reply actions
Caption
We’re going to put the breakfast nook over there and I have these adorable pink curtains to match the valences in the kitchen.
Linus: Life is rarely all one way, Charlie Brown. You win some, you lose some. Charlie Brown: Really? Gee, that'd be neat.
CAPTION:
Okay Mike, I know you used to stand over there by third base, but now you are going to need to stay in that little house over to the side.
No, it really is a promotion. You’re out of the sun and the drinks are closer.
Caption:
Hey Rookie. Now go sit on that bench and don’t get up until the game is over. I have a dinner reservation tonight.
"They come to see me strike out, hit a home run, or run into a fence. I try to accommodate them at least one way every game." - Gorman Thomas
by RiskyBusiness on Aug 24, 2010 4:08 PM CDT up reply actions
Tonight's lineup
DeWitt 2B, Castro SS, Nady 1B, Ramirez 3B, Baker RF, Soto C, Soriano LF, Colvin CF, Zambrano P
Soto moves up, Colvin down to 8th
"Any player who gets the opportunity to play at Wrigley should welcome it"
The anti-defense lineup.
Yuck. Guess Byrd needs a day or two to rest his owies.
Over/Under on errors tonight? 3 seems logical to me.
Starlin Castro singles on a pop up to catcher Jason LaRue.
Ryan Theriot scores. Two out -Gameday 7/23/10
by Sandberg's evil twin on Aug 24, 2010 2:48 PM CDT up reply actions
and none of them committed by Jeff Baker
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Aug 24, 2010 2:50 PM CDT up reply actions
Yep, any gapper is going to be a potential inside the parker
"Any player who gets the opportunity to play at Wrigley should welcome it"
Nady as relay man would definitely be interesting.
Starlin Castro singles on a pop up to catcher Jason LaRue.
Ryan Theriot scores. Two out -Gameday 7/23/10
by Sandberg's evil twin on Aug 24, 2010 2:52 PM CDT up reply actions
That's one way to put it.
I spent 90% of my money on women and drink. The rest I wasted - George Best
Len and Bob better bring mitts if the press box has the window open.
Starlin Castro singles on a pop up to catcher Jason LaRue.
Ryan Theriot scores. Two out -Gameday 7/23/10
by Sandberg's evil twin on Aug 24, 2010 2:54 PM CDT up reply actions
A squirtgun.
Starlin Castro singles on a pop up to catcher Jason LaRue.
Ryan Theriot scores. Two out -Gameday 7/23/10
by Sandberg's evil twin on Aug 24, 2010 3:15 PM CDT up reply actions
I'm not worried...
anything missed by the muffin man will be made up by Colvin’s incredible range in center field since he was obviously made to play the position.
Starlin Castro singles on a pop up to catcher Jason LaRue.
Ryan Theriot scores. Two out -Gameday 7/23/10
by Sandberg's evil twin on Aug 24, 2010 3:18 PM CDT up reply actions
Who was the poster a couple weeks back who said Nady was a better OF than Colvin?
It wasn’t you was it?
What?
I’m senile but I don’t remember ever saying that…plus a couple of weeks ago I was on vacation and not visiting the site at all. I’d say Nady is bad, and Colvin is competent…both aren’t spectacular by any stretch, hopefully Colvin will become good in time. Man…sure don’t remember saying that at all.
Starlin Castro singles on a pop up to catcher Jason LaRue.
Ryan Theriot scores. Two out -Gameday 7/23/10
by Sandberg's evil twin on Aug 25, 2010 2:30 AM CDT up reply actions
The outfield is particularly horrid.
Though the infield has a lot of potential to make them….yet there isn’t a lot to do about it with our roster.
Starlin Castro singles on a pop up to catcher Jason LaRue.
Ryan Theriot scores. Two out -Gameday 7/23/10
by Sandberg's evil twin on Aug 24, 2010 2:50 PM CDT up reply actions
Interesting that DeWitt gets the start at leadoff versus the lefty, but Colvin hits eighth.
Also, why is Baker hitting in front of Soto and Soriano?
Baker in right field?
_
I didn't believe it last August, but it turns out that love survives.
Mount Washington conquered July 5, 2010! State high point count: 3/50
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Aug 24, 2010 3:08 PM CDT up reply actions
Meant to show this ... @_@
Sometimes, the greybar gets you
I didn't believe it last August, but it turns out that love survives.
Mount Washington conquered July 5, 2010! State high point count: 3/50
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Aug 24, 2010 3:08 PM CDT up reply actions
Yeah.though I think you meant eyes heh. Gotta watch out for those scallywags, matey!
Starlin Castro singles on a pop up to catcher Jason LaRue.
Ryan Theriot scores. Two out -Gameday 7/23/10
by Sandberg's evil twin on Aug 24, 2010 3:13 PM CDT up reply actions
I did mean eyes.
Completely forgot about the graybar.
I didn't believe it last August, but it turns out that love survives.
Mount Washington conquered July 5, 2010! State high point count: 3/50
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Aug 24, 2010 3:14 PM CDT up reply actions
He has played some OF before
Not a lot, but this shouldn’t be a total shock to his system.
I didn't know that.
When was he in the OF before?
I didn't believe it last August, but it turns out that love survives.
Mount Washington conquered July 5, 2010! State high point count: 3/50
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Aug 24, 2010 3:12 PM CDT up reply actions
I think we should defer to Al on this one... ;-)
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
Didn't take long for the first baseman to find his way back to the #3 hole.
I was hoping that Quade noticed that Nady had a great record against Livan Hernandez, or some logical reason to explain why he was hitting 5th last night. Moving Colvin down makes sense against a lefty starter though.
by The Deputy Mayor of Rush Street on Aug 24, 2010 3:10 PM CDT up reply actions
I enjoy watching Nady play!
I am glad Quade didn’t take Soriano out of the lineup for that hustle nonsense!
We need his powerful bat in there, we are in a division chase!
RT @ Cary Muskrat: Revised lineup for tonight
1. Soriano, 1B (2b)
2. Castro, SS
3. Hoffpauir, 1B
4. Ramirez, 1B (3b)
5. Baker, 1B (rf)
6. Soto, C
7. Nady, 1B (lf)
8. Colvin, 1B (cf)
9. Zambrano, 1B (p)
by The Deputy Mayor of Rush Street on Aug 24, 2010 3:30 PM CDT up reply actions
More SB Nation issues.
I just saw two comments marked as “unread”, so I hit the “Z” key to read them. I read the two comments, and then I got sent right back to comment #1 and had to read it again (it was marked as unread). Same for comment #2 afterward.
I didn't believe it last August, but it turns out that love survives.
Mount Washington conquered July 5, 2010! State high point count: 3/50
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Aug 24, 2010 3:19 PM CDT reply actions
The site forced you to read them again?
What are those sneaky bastards up to?
They must be in league with Crown Point Bob.
I spent 90% of my money on women and drink. The rest I wasted - George Best
They were probably really important comments.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Aug 24, 2010 3:25 PM CDT up reply actions
They weren't.
You didn’t post them.
I didn't believe it last August, but it turns out that love survives.
Mount Washington conquered July 5, 2010! State high point count: 3/50
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Aug 24, 2010 3:26 PM CDT up reply actions
Since the ad fiasco on this site caused it to load slowly,
I’ve seen several times for me that reply doesn’t work at all, and that it works as the up button. I did try it several times to make sure I hadn’t hit up, and still had it misfunction. Fortunately it has happened only occasionally.
Starlin Castro singles on a pop up to catcher Jason LaRue.
Ryan Theriot scores. Two out -Gameday 7/23/10
by Sandberg's evil twin on Aug 24, 2010 3:26 PM CDT up reply actions
Cubs recall Scott Maine from Iowa
Justin Berg sent down. Maine was not on the 40-man roster, he will have to be added. The 40-man is now full.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
Good, I've seen enough of Berg.
"You've got to get your damn shirts rolled up and go out and kick somebody's ass. That's what you've got to do. Period." -- Lou Piniella
No, that's Jeff Gray.
Maine came in the Aaron Heilman deal from the Diamondbacks.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
Yep - I think I was a script writer for Hawkeye and BJ in a past life...
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
Imagine how the Spanish American war vets feel.
Oh wait..all gone, never mind.
Starlin Castro singles on a pop up to catcher Jason LaRue.
Ryan Theriot scores. Two out -Gameday 7/23/10
by Sandberg's evil twin on Aug 25, 2010 2:32 AM CDT up reply actions
But the children... my god, think of the children!!!
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
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