Stephen Strasburg 'Probably' Needs Tommy John Surgery
He's going to get a second opinion, but might wind up missing 12-18 months.
Wow. That was fast.
over 1 year ago
Al Yellon
84 comments
0 recs |
Comments
Wow.
You have to wonder if the brought the kid up too fast. That’s a shame for the Nats and baseball…
I dunno about "too fast".
Sounds like this injury could have happened at any time, to anyone.
The good news is that many TJ surgery players come back as strong or stronger than when they left. And even if he’s out till the middle of 2012 — he’ll only be 24.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
Exactly.
This was going to happen, regardless. It wasn’t like the Nationals were pushing the guy — he was under strict pitch counts and limited innings.
Maybe next year is finally our year.
This is exactly what stunned me about this.
I’ve heard several segments on late night sports radio about how new ideas about pitch counts protect young pitchers coming up from the minors, eliminating dead arms and making the transition to MLB so much better…resulting in the year of the pitcher. While this still may be true, it sure didn’t protect Strasburg. The same commentator said he thought when Stephen had a sore arm he would be shut down for the season, so I was surprised to see the Nats pitch him two games afterwards..it seemed to make sense with the horrible season that they wouldn’t take chances.
Surprised me they kept pitching him, I don’t know what they hoped to gain from it other than more tickets sold and I suppose developing him. Whatever evaluation they used to keep him pitching obviously was wrong. Whether he comes back from the surgery and pitches for years or not, his career has at least been damaged by this.
Starlin Castro singles on a pop up to catcher Jason LaRue.
Ryan Theriot scores. Two out -Gameday 7/23/10
by Sandberg's evil twin on Aug 28, 2010 2:59 PM CDT up reply actions
I'd say also if this was going to happen regardless
of how he was developed by the Nats it does not bode well for his future.
Starlin Castro singles on a pop up to catcher Jason LaRue.
Ryan Theriot scores. Two out -Gameday 7/23/10
by Sandberg's evil twin on Aug 28, 2010 2:59 PM CDT up reply actions
Guys like Strasburg are damaged goods when they arrive in pro ball
it just is not apparent right away. Where they need pitch counts is in amateur ball, especially college ball. The constant overuse by coaches who only care about winning gnaws away at the pitcher every time out and eventually something gives way.
I always turn to the sports section first. The sports page records people's accomplishments; the front page has nothing but man's failures.
~Earl Warren
by lookingdeadred on Aug 29, 2010 9:00 AM CDT up reply actions
Nope...
…there was no reason to keep this guy in the minors and they have been very careful with his pitch count as well.
This happened because the guy puts unbelievable torque on his elbow (mostly with his knee buckling breaking ball).
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
Wow - Gute Besserung Stephan.
If the Cubs still have a chance, no matter how small, it’s still Go Cubs, damn the math and pass the KoolAid.
Just saw that and had copied the link to post.
Clearly, I don’t have Al’s speed on the keyboard.
What a huge gut punch to that organization.
I never wish injuries on players, so all the best in his recovery. And, at least, it is something that is now fairly commonly fixed. No guarantees, of course, but TJ surgery is now fairly standard.
Shut up Joe Morgan.
Three of my most respected posters here sort of predicted this.
I hope it’s not a Mark Prior-like slide to the bottom for this kid.
He had the Mark Prior Inverted W pitching motion.
Good thing it’s the elbow. Science can rebuild that.
Shoulders and backs, on the other hand….
MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown
yes
can we please get it through the heads of baseball camp instructors around the world to emulate the styles of Nolan Ryan, Greg Maddux, Randy Johnson, etc etc etc… rather than have the Mark Prior (or really any other pitching motion) stupid Inverted W…
I Love Larry - Brick are you looking at random things around the room and saying that you love them - I Love Larry
Currently 34,839 on the Season Ticket Wait List - Expected age of being #0: 119
by hansman1982 on Aug 27, 2010 12:59 PM CDT up reply actions
Gees
Now I know why I thought his breaking ball looked like Kerry Wood in 1998.
"They come to see me strike out, hit a home run, or run into a fence. I try to accommodate them at least one way every game." - Gorman Thomas
Just yesterday
Just yesterday I was telling a friend the whole setup was eerily reminscent of Kerry in 1998/1999.
Sad to see it is.
Formerly known as cubstoseriesby100. Thanks Al for letting me change my outdated screenname.
by puckishcubsfan on Aug 27, 2010 10:06 AM CDT reply actions
Not even close to Wood.
Strasburg was babied the whole way. Wood was not.
Both situations are very different. The only common denominator is Riggleman. Poor guy.
by jerry morales rules on Aug 27, 2010 11:05 AM CDT up reply actions
They are similar in the pitch they throw
Both Wood and Strasburg threw that unbelievable breaking pitch. As MPH73 noted above, the Tommy John injury is probably due to the torque this breaking pitch places on the elbow.
"They come to see me strike out, hit a home run, or run into a fence. I try to accommodate them at least one way every game." - Gorman Thomas
by RiskyBusiness on Aug 27, 2010 11:45 AM CDT up reply actions
Strasburg was not babied until he signed with the Nats
prior to his pro career he was used or more accurately abused. The comparison with Wood is dead on.
I always turn to the sports section first. The sports page records people's accomplishments; the front page has nothing but man's failures.
~Earl Warren
by lookingdeadred on Aug 28, 2010 9:38 AM CDT up reply actions
Bummer,
such a promising start to his career, in hindsight the Nats probably should have shut him down after he went on the DL for the first time. He’s still young and has plenty of time to recover, but not all guys come back from this surgery and are as good as they were before. The Nats franchise gotta feel like they’re cursed (at least they signed Harper though), the curse of Jim Riggleman and using young phenom pitchers.
"You've got to get your damn shirts rolled up and go out and kick somebody's ass. That's what you've got to do. Period." -- Lou Piniella
Horrible news for the Nats...
Wow. Poor Mark Prior.
Proud recipient of a hot dog shot from the Iowa Cubs hot dog gun.
This doesn't remind me of Mark Prior
It reminds me of Fransisco Liriano of the Twins. Big power pitcher who came up and dominated in his freshman year only to have to require Tommy John surgery. I’ve been thinking, since Strasburg was injured, that this might be the path he’d inevitably have to go down.
For the Nationals, this just sucks.
Viva la Cubs Révolution!!!
That's a good comp.
And possibly good news for Strasburg, because Liriano finally — after almost two years — appears to be back to his previous level.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
Really?
I thought he was much better than he is now before he got hurt…The guy was matching Santana in his prime.
"You've got to get your damn shirts rolled up and go out and kick somebody's ass. That's what you've got to do. Period." -- Lou Piniella
Liriano in 2006...
was 12-3 with a 2.16 ERA, in 16 starts (28 apps), 121 IP, 144K to 32 BB, an ERA+ of 208! and a WHIP of 1 flat. He’s been very good this season and is looking healthy, but he’s not at the same level of 2006.
"You've got to get your damn shirts rolled up and go out and kick somebody's ass. That's what you've got to do. Period." -- Lou Piniella
Not even close.
But what does it matter if you’re that dominant and can’t stay healthy?
"Pounding sand since 1982...."
FWIW Liriano's peripherals are almost back to what they were in 2006
Liriano’s FIP this year is lower than in 2006 (2.31 v. 2.55), his K/9 and BB/9 are just a notch below what they were before; and his FB velocity is just a shade lower (93.8 avg. v. 94.7 avg.). I think it is safe to say that Liriano is almost back to being the pitcher he was before.
We sure know about that part.
Might be different pitchers than Prior and Wood, but dominant and can’t stay healthy…yeah it doesn’t help a whole lot.
Starlin Castro singles on a pop up to catcher Jason LaRue.
Ryan Theriot scores. Two out -Gameday 7/23/10
by Sandberg's evil twin on Aug 28, 2010 3:01 PM CDT up reply actions
A couple of thoughts regarding Strasburg
When his debut was televised by MLB I was excited to watch him pitch, but I kept thinking, “this is too much.” It was way overhyped. By the 2nd or 3rd inning, Bob Costas was talking about Strasburg being enshrined at Cooperstown one day. I’m not overly superstitious, but it seemed like bad karma or something. I hope he recovers and has a good career.
The other thing that comes to mind is that I’m becoming more and more convinced that the pitchers who have sustained, successful careers are just freaks of nature. I think most pitchers have a very small window to be great or even really good. For most of these guys, regardless of how many innings they pitch or how many pitches they throw, the are either going to break down or not. The freaks of nature are the guys who don’t break down. I’m not saying that these things shouldn’t be monitored because limiting them could help sustain the pitchers a little longer, but I still think one day they will break down.
Extra thought: No pitcher should ever be given more than a 4-year contract. It’s just too risky.
I am an American aquarium drinker...
I dunno about any pitcher.
I wouldn’t regret giving someone like Halladay or Sabathia. But, you have a point. I just don’t believe in bad karma — I think this is something that was possible from day one.
Maybe next year is finally our year.
I agree it was possible from day one
I guess I didn’t do a good job of expressing that, but that’s kind of what my second point was. The karma thing was just a weirid feeling I had. Kind of like not talking about a no-hitter or not putting away the bats until the game is over. Stupid, I know. I don’t really think the hype caused his injury.
I am an American aquarium drinker...
For most of these guys, regardless of how many innings they pitch or how many pitches they throw, the are either going to break down or not. The freaks of nature are the guys who don’t break down. I’m not saying that these things shouldn’t be monitored because limiting them could help sustain the pitchers a little longer, but I still think one day they will break down.
I was thinking about this a while back watching video of Fergie Jenkins pitching. There was a guy who did. Not. Break. Down. I doubt anyone will come close to his consistency and longevity any time soon.
The thing is, when you watch his motion, it’s so darn EASY. He’s not getting the arm speed that today’s pitchers do, but it sure looks like he’s putting a lot less stress on his body. It’s just all a lot more fluid. And if you have several strong pitches to throw, it can be extremely effective without 95mph heat.
Jim Kaat was the same way, and Steve Carlton, and they also lasted at a very high level.
Seems like something that could be coached for, but these days I expect the emphasis is on getting as much velocity as possible.
"Every day when I show up, I try to provide a little laughter...some days when I pitch it gets pretty funny, too." -- Ryan Dempster, 5/2010
by CaughtInTheVines on Aug 27, 2010 11:46 AM CDT up reply actions
Fergie has always said
that he doesn’t think that pitchers throw enough and that is why they sustain injuries. Not only did he pitch every fourth day for much of his career, he liked to throw a lot between starts. Don’t know if he is right but it worked for him.
I think that this may hold true
for those guys who are touching close to 100 on the radar gun. Maybe the human body just isn’t built to sustain that type of punishment. Seems like these injuries happen to the really hard throwers more often, though any pitcher is susceptible to arm injury. I think guys like Maddux, Glavine, Moyer etc were able to pitch so long because they weren’t putting as much stress on the arm. Nolan Ryan was an exception and I think he was just a physical freak of nature.
I was thinking the same
The radar gun is a benefit and a curse. I wonder how many pitchers in the days prior to the gun actually hit the upper 90’s and above and the percentage of pitchers that had serious arm/shoulder problems compared to today.
Young arms today are held on pitch counts. etc., and injuries still occur. Throwing a baseball by nature injurious and it just awes me the men that make it/made it through their careers with nary a stint on the DL.
"WGN, Channel 9 Cubs Baseball, Excitingly, Importantly, Dramatically Yours." - Jack Brickhouse
>_<
mean
"A dream you dream alone is only a dream. A dream you dream together is reality." John Lennon
agree
now who will ESPN talk about the next 12 months
I Love Larry - Brick are you looking at random things around the room and saying that you love them - I Love Larry
Currently 34,839 on the Season Ticket Wait List - Expected age of being #0: 119
bryce harper
or maybe even the next bryce harper.
by circuitclout on Aug 27, 2010 1:57 PM CDT up reply actions
Favre, Farve, Favre, Farve, Favre, Farve, Favre, Farve, Favre, Farve, baked beans, Favre, Farve and Favre.
by The Deputy Mayor of Rush Street on Aug 27, 2010 4:43 PM CDT up reply actions
LeBron
Chicago Jazz > Three Am-Egos
by chicago030 on Aug 28, 2010 9:52 AM CDT via mobile up reply actions
Now that is certainly true.
Playing well or good he will dominate ESPN coverage for awhile. If he plays like last year, he will keep it until the end of the season.
Starlin Castro singles on a pop up to catcher Jason LaRue.
Ryan Theriot scores. Two out -Gameday 7/23/10
by Sandberg's evil twin on Aug 28, 2010 3:13 PM CDT up reply actions
All of the above.
Including rehab updates and latching on to the next phenom and riding him all the way to the bank. Funny thing is they haven’t had any segments on why the supposed experts predicting all his success 24/7 didn’t see this coming.
Starlin Castro singles on a pop up to catcher Jason LaRue.
Ryan Theriot scores. Two out -Gameday 7/23/10
by Sandberg's evil twin on Aug 28, 2010 3:03 PM CDT up reply actions
Hey Bryce Harper!
You can pitch too, right?
"They come to see me strike out, hit a home run, or run into a fence. I try to accommodate them at least one way every game." - Gorman Thomas
Did it Happen...
…not because of how many innings he pitched, but because of what he threw in those innings? Is there such a thing as trying to throw too hard? Maybe too many breaking pitches?
Another victim of Jim Riggleman?
Did he allow Strasburg to throw more breaking balls than what he should have?
It's Riggleman's fault alright
Strasburg should have immediately been put on display in the Smithsonian BEFORE he EVER threw a pitch in order to prevent him from getting injured.
Riggleman should be fined by the league, for starters, and, possibly, be indicted on federal charges of some kind, though I’m not a lawyer and don’t fully understand his possible liability.
by jerry morales rules on Aug 27, 2010 12:57 PM CDT up reply actions
another victim of the delivery
and a reliance on being a power starting pitcher
I Love Larry - Brick are you looking at random things around the room and saying that you love them - I Love Larry
Currently 34,839 on the Season Ticket Wait List - Expected age of being #0: 119
No, it was Dusty's fault.
"Hats for bats.....keep bats warm." - Pedro Cerrano
"Hey bartender, Jobu needs a refill !!!!!!!" - Eddie Harris
by willie mays hayes' gloves on Aug 27, 2010 2:07 PM CDT up reply actions
.00000000000000000000000001 milliseconds
Contributing Editor, SB Nation Chicago. Please follow us on Twitter!
If it's TJ surgery I think that he'll have a better chance of returning to form that someone
like Prior. Prior’s shoulder injury from the base running collision was worse than they revealed at the time, and they went on to ride him hard the remainder of the season.
Pitchers nowadays seem to have better luck coming back strong from TJ surgery.
I'm not surprised
I wasn’t buying into the hype and I was expecting him to go the way of Kerry Wood or Mark Prior.
RIP Ronnie James Dio (July 10, 1942 - May 16, 2010).
Free BLou
anticipating and injury is one thing, but "not buying the hype"?
that statement seems…silly.
"Enough foreplay- let's get crackin'"- Fred Garvin
Get used to it
Now that he’s hurt, we’re going to get a lot of ESPN haters and jealous fat toads who say, “I knew it all along”
I have nothing but contempt for those people.
"It's all in the game, yo"
I'm an ESPN hater but not a jealous fat toad.
I'll go to my grave believing Armando Galarraga tossed the 21st perfect game in MLB history.
I'm just big-boned! ;-)
I'll go to my grave believing Armando Galarraga tossed the 21st perfect game in MLB history.
and I have nothing but contempt
for you – I say good day
I Love Larry - Brick are you looking at random things around the room and saying that you love them - I Love Larry
Currently 34,839 on the Season Ticket Wait List - Expected age of being #0: 119
Agreed
The dude was pretty incredible for what he accomplished in such a short time. Jim Callis had a great tweet today. Someone asked him whether knowing what he knows now, whether he would still take Strasburg, number 1. He tweeted back that Strasburg will still be worth more than any other player taken in 2010-2011 (2.6 WAR), and has more potential than any other player going forward.
Every Strasburg Pitch Network
I wonder what they’ll do now.
RIP Ronnie James Dio (July 10, 1942 - May 16, 2010).
Free BLou
ESPN will be here and relevant
long after your grandkids are celebrating your death
"It's all in the game, yo"
I figure they'd just dance on my grave
RIP Ronnie James Dio (July 10, 1942 - May 16, 2010).
Free BLou
They aren't aware of anything
to dance on. gotta be either a phenom, champ, or from the east coast sports arena to get noticed.
Starlin Castro singles on a pop up to catcher Jason LaRue.
Ryan Theriot scores. Two out -Gameday 7/23/10
by Sandberg's evil twin on Aug 28, 2010 3:08 PM CDT up reply actions
As will cockroaches, dandelions, and Keith Richards
I'll go to my grave believing Armando Galarraga tossed the 21st perfect game in MLB history.
They will be here and relevant much like TMZ.
Being popular doesn not indicate knowledge or accuracy. Just means they know how to get people to watch their gobbledy gook.
Starlin Castro singles on a pop up to catcher Jason LaRue.
Ryan Theriot scores. Two out -Gameday 7/23/10
by Sandberg's evil twin on Aug 28, 2010 3:05 PM CDT up reply actions
You're just mad because your boy is likely to be a flash in the pan
I always turn to the sports section first. The sports page records people's accomplishments; the front page has nothing but man's failures.
~Earl Warren
by lookingdeadred on Aug 28, 2010 9:41 AM CDT up reply actions
What a sad and pathetic life you must lead
being happy that someone might amount to as little as you
"It's all in the game, yo"
Whatever I have turned out to be,
dwarfs what you have and will become, of that I have no doubt. You are that most pathetic of internet creature, the cyber tough guy, who hides safely in the anonymity of internet communication. If you ever ran into someone you called out here, you most likely would wet yourself.
I always turn to the sports section first. The sports page records people's accomplishments; the front page has nothing but man's failures.
~Earl Warren
by lookingdeadred on Aug 29, 2010 9:05 AM CDT up reply actions
The really dominate
stuff at an early age appears to be a curse.
I have to agree from above comments, seeing his breaking pitch reminded me of Woods when Woody came up. A ridiculous break and tremendous wear on the elbow.
Hope he can comeback.
I wonder if that “Dick” Dibble will have a job. He got on Strasburg hard about coming out of the game, and not being tougher. The Nats made Dibble take two nights off, the last two Cub games if I am not mistaken. He also made comments about some women sitting behind home plate talking to each other and on a phone. Dick Dibble said " This is the reason why women don’t belong at baseball games" . He is not that great of an announcer to begin with, maybe they will let him go after the year is over. I hope he apologizes anyways.
Strasburg was my favorite MLB pitcher
hopefully he recovers and gets the Nationals in the playoffs in a few years
GO BULLS
by FAN of the BULLS on Aug 27, 2010 3:20 PM CDT reply actions
Mike Leake is going on the DL with "tired arm"
I will duck for the Dusty comments and jokes to begin.
"Lou Piniella's been a great manager for a long time and I stand by him completely"
Jim Hendry
There is no joy in NatsTown tonight....
It is too bad about Strasburg, though. Hopefully, he will be back in 2012 to pick up where he left off.
"Pinky, are you pondering what I'm pondering?"--The Brain
This is the prime reason why I NEVER buy into advanced hype about...
…phenom pitchers. Nowadays it almost seems like, for whatever reason, more tend to break down than not.
I have no idea why this is but, clearly, somebody has to start paying closer attention to the way these guys are brought along and resist the temptation to showcase these guys too quickly-it’s clearly a recipe for disaster.
My theory
on why these young pitchers break down these days more often than not: kids’ sports. A baseball league for youngsters these days is a ridiculous, all-consuming affair; a 12 year old with elite talent is playing 80 games plus a year nowadays. I wonder if these young bodies can handle that. By the time a guy like Strasburg is 20, he’s got alot of miles on that arm, more than we realize. Maybe strasburg’s mechanics are bad…but 30 years ago there was no such thing as analyzing a pitcher’s mechanics the way we do today. There is something that we are doing to our kids that makes this happen. I am convinced of this.
I feel bad
for him and as family. This has to be just devastating for them. Nats fans too, they haven’t had anything to be excited about before him—ever.
DEJESUS!!!
I imagine this makes it easier for us to get Adam Dunn.
Less monies flooding in from Strasberg mania, and the team sure isn’t gonna be good until 2012 at the minimum now.
"The riches of the game are in the thrills, not the money." --Ernie Banks
hmmm..
they weren’t good this year, perhaps Bryce Harper will capture interest and sell tickets, but I doubt he changes the team to being good. Guess I don’t know a lot about their other rookies and prospects. This certainly sets them back.
Starlin Castro singles on a pop up to catcher Jason LaRue.
Ryan Theriot scores. Two out -Gameday 7/23/10
by Sandberg's evil twin on Aug 28, 2010 3:10 PM CDT up reply actions
Wood/Prior 2.0
Chicago Jazz > Three Am-Egos
by chicago030 on Aug 28, 2010 9:50 AM CDT via mobile reply actions



















