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Why Jim Hendry is a Bad GM


When talking about how Jim Hendry is a bad GM, most fans scream "Look at all these NTCs!" or lament how Soriano and Fukudome are wastes of cash, Zambrano isn't worth his contract, and how he backloads seemingly every deal. With the possible exception of the backloading problem, these are NOT the reasons that Hendry is bad GM. Here's what is usually attributed to Hendry as bad moves that aren't necessarily bad moves in a vacuum:

Soriano - Signing him to play CF was simply a moronic idea, and in no way was he ever going to be worth $18+ annually for more than MAYBE a year or two over the course of the contract. However, signing Soriano was a turning point in the history of the franchise. That signing signaled to the baseball world that the Cubs were finally going to being flexing their financial muscle. This contract would make the Cubs a much more appealing destination for free agents. The dollars and years are too much, but you could successfully argue that this contract made future signings possible.

Fukudome - Kosuke is certainly not the player that everyone in the organization was hoping he'd be. He deinitely has value, but that does not equate to $12+ annually for this guy. However if people recall, Hendry's bid wasn't even the highest available to Kosuke. Perhaps Hendry should've been more cautious in signing an uncertain commodity, but there's little doubt that the general consensus amongst baseball scouts was that Fukudome would be a success in MLB. It's somewhat difficult to fault Hendry for this contract given that he got him for cheaper than other GMs offered, and he (Fukudome) had votes of confidence from those around him.

Zambrano - This one is a bit less defensible. But Hendry was given a mission to turn the team into instant contenders so the Tribune could sell, and it would be difficult to contend without a good rotation. I agree that Zambrano isn't the caliber of pitcher that warrants his contract, and the NTC really hurts here, but too a small extent Hendry's hands were tied on this deal.

Lee's NTC - Remember when Lee was good? After 2005 people were scared that he was going to leave and get tons of cash elsewhere. This is actually a fine move by Hendry, but the timing just seems to stink. Had he waited until the offseason to try to sign Derrek the team might be in a much different position than it is now. But Hendry did get a fine deal on the player he thought he was signing, and the NTC was part of that deal. You could argue that Hendry put too much stock into Lee's first (and at that time ONLY) monster year, which he probably did, but the general feeling around baseball was that Lee turned a corner and became elite.

I understand any confusion at this point, since the title of this post is: "Why Jim Hendry is a bad GM" and I've basically been arguing on his behalf. I have no doubt that Hendry is, in fact, a bad GM, but the above moves aren't really indictment of his skills, or lack thereof.

In every business, there are things you simply don't do. As a chef, you don't serve spoiled food. As a Doctor, you don't misdiagnose. If you're an airline, you don't crash. As a GM, Jim Hendry has simply demonstrated that he just doesn't understand the things you don't do as a GM. Everyone, including a GM, is entitled to make mistakes, it'd be foolish to think that every move works out in your favor. But there's a big difference between a good investment not working out, and a bad investment not working out.

The only real palatable mistake that Hendry has made was Nomar. Unless there were reports about Nomar's health that Hendry ignored, that deal was an absolute no-brainer win for the Cubs. They landed a great player at a premium position, and didn't really give up much to acquire him. Now we all know what happened with Nomar, but you can't really fault Hendry for that. THIS is the kind of bad move that is acceptable from a good GM. Every source of information indicated that this was a good move for the Cubs, but in the end it just didn't work out. Hendry made a wise investment and it missed, there's nothing wrong with that.

But the fact that Hendry has consistently made downright awful investments is completely unacceptable. Here's a list of the moves that Hendry has made that an intelligent baseball person, and in some cases just an intelligent person, should never do:

Jason Marquis - I was fine with acquiring Marquis, he was an innings eater how could also hit and make the bench a little deeper; nothing wrong with that. But nobody was lining up for his services after the 2006 season, nobody. So to offer him a 3 year $21 million deal coming off a season where he had a 6+ ERA and was left off the World Series roster is nothing short of moronic. This guy could've been had for a song. Even a 3 year $15 million deal would have been fine. Or how bout a nice incentive laden deal? Hendry shot himself and his team in the foot. Not because he signed Marquis, but because he squandered an opportunity to net his team some value by possibly under spending on an asset. This was as simple as it gets and Hendry blew it.

Juan Pierre - I'd be lying if I said I knew exactly how valuable Pinto, Nolasco and Mitre were that offseason, but I know that they were a highly regarded trio of pitching prospects. If even one of those players becomes something of decent value, because they'd be cost controlled for several years, they would be worth far more to the organization than one year of Juan Pierre. That's not to say that Pierre was a useless player, but Hendry cost his team more than he received. Frankly Juan Pierre is pretty bad, but I recognize that he still had a respectable perceived value. That doesn't excuse Hendry making a move that everybody could see was a horrible one before Pierre ever arrived in Chicago.

John Grabow - It's difficult to summon the words to express how dumb this signing was. Nothing from Grabow's past indicated that he was anything better than league average, and in fact he was sometimes worse. I believe he was described as "a lefthanded Aaron Heilman". To give this guy 2 years $7.5 million is mind boggling. He's worth MAX (and I'm being generous) $2.5 million a year. He's a veteran, and he's left handed, otherwise he's worth $.5 million a year. Maybe Grabow signs elsewhere if Hendry doesn't offer that contract. That'd be good for the Cubs if one of their competitors inked this deal. Don't get me wrong, I thought the Cubs should keep Grabow considering the state of the bullpen, but that contract is indefensible; and it was apparent to just about everyone at the time that it was a waste of money.

Aaron Miles - The only thing that Aaron Miles offers to a team is the ability to be below average at multiple positions, and from both sides of the plate. How that equates to a 2 year $4.9 million dollar deal is beyond me, and should be beyond anybody. Aaron Miles is a fine 25th guy to have on a roster, but he doesn't really have a place on a team with a large enough payroll to afford someone better than him (which isn't hard). This is a move that just defies logic and hurts if you think about it too much. Everybody should be able to identify this as a bad investment, even before he ever wore a Cubs uniform.

Milton Bradley - This is one that I don't overall hate. Hendry finally invested in a player that got on base and played good defense. The problem that I have with it is that Hendry was either ignorant to Bradley's issues, or was arrogant enough to think he could be the GM to solve Bradley. Whichever of those two Hendry is guilty of indicates that he has no business being in a position to make those decisions. Furthermore, the incentive for the 3rd year of that deal to kick in was insulting. It should have been 100 games started, not 75 games appeared in. That clause might as well not even have been in the contract if all he had to do was pinch hit 75 times.

Mark DeRosa (the trade) - I understand that this is, and was, controversial. I also placed this trade after the Miles and Bradley signings on purpose. I believe that this marks one of the dumbest trio of moves I've ever seen in terms of strategy. Moving DeRosa was a fine idea, and actually something that Hendry never seems to do: trading a player while they have value. I disagreed, wholeheartedly, with handing 2B over to Fontenot, but trading DeRosa was a good idea at the time. But trading that valuable of a commodity for 3 minor leaguers, only one of which has any real upside seems like a very poor return to me, especially considering that Archer still might not ever see MLB.

But what really stings about this move was that Hendry demonstrated that he lacked vision of what his team was going to be like. The options for RF that year were: Bradley, Dunn, Ibanez, Abreu. All four of which could be expected (or wanted) to miss time in the field to injury, misconduct, or bad defense. The reasoning escapes me why you would diminish your teams depth at RF when all of your options were going to need quality depth behind them. And then to replace your quality depth (DeRosa) with poor depth (Miles) while handing over a starting role to an unproven commodity (Fontenot), has to be one of the poorest thought out moves I could possibly imagine.

Felix Pie - I don't think that Pie is going to develop into a star, and I never really did. But he still has a good chance to become a solid starting CF. To jettison Pie after hardly giving him a chance to play was really shortsighted. Perhaps Hendry gave the reins of the roster to Piniella, but I don't know why you'd spend years protecting Pie from trades and grooming him, only to trade him after a couple cups of coffee. What's worse is that Hendry essentially flipped him for a coveted reliever: Aaron Heilman.

Aaron Heilman - This is really summed up above, but why would you trade actual assets to obtain a player that nobody else really wants? That's not to say that getting Heilman was a bad idea. League average relievers still have value. But to actively pursue these types of players, and spending team assets to get them, is only hurting the team.

Joey Gathright - In tandem with the Pie trade, Hendry threw away $1 million on Gathright to do what Pie could've done for half the price. Even if the organization was giving up on Pie becoming a regular player (which it was too early to do), there's no reason he can't stay on as the 5th OF / Pinch Runner if Piniella decides he wants one of those guys. Just a waste of a prospect and cash.

Calling up Castro - I think Castro is ready for the big leagues. But to call him up as a panic move cost his team a full year of cheap production out of Castro. Hendry appears to have been trying to save the season because the roster just wasn't very good. Replacing one player on the roster was never going to take a bad team and turn it into a good one. If Hendry really thought this would make a difference any larger than a game or two he doesn't deserve to be in baseball at all.

Hendry has made some very good moves. We all know about Ramirez and Lofton, Karros and Grudz, Lee, Lilly, and even Byrd. These were great signings and trades. But the notion that Hendry's good moves outweigh his bad moves is laughable. And really this is a terrible argument to begin with. The team shouldn't strive to have a GM that "helps more than he hurts" they should have a GM that consistently makes good moves and demonstrates that he (or she) knows what they're doing.

People like to point to 3 playoff berths and a 97 win team. Sure, Hendry deserves some credit for those. But I'd hardly consider an 85 or 88 win team something to be proud of. The 97 wins is certainly impressive, but people don't seem to address the fact that all but 4 players on that 2008 team had good to phenomenal years. (Lee, Ward, Fukudome and Howry were the only players with bad years in 2008) Plus of course they were very fortunate that other than some Soriano leg issues they stayed incredibly healthy all season. Not to mention the fact that Hendry has been able to outspend his competition by a healthy amount over the recent years.

I would also like to note that the argument of: "Name somebody who you would like to replace him with" is very childish and attempts to draw attention away from the debate and gives a Piniellaesque: "What do you want me to do?". But I will name someone who'd be better than Hendry: Me. I guarantee that given his resources and respect among the baseball community that I could build a better team than Jim Hendry. The man just isn't very good, he doesn't seem to understand the simple concept of return on investment.

The team is better off than it was before Hendry took over as GM, but it has everything to do with the increased payroll, and little do with the decisions made by Hendry himself. I hope somebody could present a logical argument in defense of Hendry so that this might be a debate, but in all honesty I believe that to be impossible, because Hendry really is a bad GM.

This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of SB Nation or Al Yellon, managing editor (unless it's a FanPost posted by Al). FanPost opinions are valued expressions of opinion by passionate and knowledgeable baseball fans.

Comment 425 comments  |  11 recs  | 

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I disagree

Can you explain?

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by WittyUserName on Aug 3, 2010 12:01 PM CDT up reply actions  

Read it

It sounds like something a teenage girl would have written.

by Not Bruce Froemming on Aug 3, 2010 12:11 PM CDT up reply actions  

Derp

RIP Ronnie James Dio (July 10, 1942 - May 16, 2010).

by Ace Venom on Aug 3, 2010 12:14 PM CDT up reply actions  

Um OK...

I wrote it. I read it. I re-read it. It may not be the most eloqeunt thing I’ve written, but I don’t detect any irony.

Perhaps I should be typing upwards so you can see me on your high horse.

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by WittyUserName on Aug 3, 2010 12:17 PM CDT up reply actions  

Giddyup

No defense of Hendry would pass your muster, so why waste time?

by Not Bruce Froemming on Aug 3, 2010 12:18 PM CDT up reply actions  

Don't mind him

Some defend everything happening here because at least the Cubs under this administration have been better than some of the really rotten years. Nevermind that the Cubs are headed for more rotten years in the future.

RIP Ronnie James Dio (July 10, 1942 - May 16, 2010).

by Ace Venom on Aug 3, 2010 12:24 PM CDT up reply actions  

That's an overused point

Have they been better? No doubt, but there was only one way to go….and that was way up. With the amount of resources Hendry has/had at his disposal in his tenure, as a whole, his work hasn’t been exemplary.

"In order to have a winner, the team must have a feeling of unity; every player must put the team first- ahead of personal glory" - motivational sign at Halas Hall.

by propheteer on Aug 4, 2010 12:53 PM CDT up reply actions  

Hit the nail on the head

Anything written, spoken, typed, and even thought of in your mind that goes against the grain is unacceptable at BCB. When you say high horse I think that’s the understatement of the year.

Hendry has proved himself to be a very inefficient GM with the above exceptions/trades you mentioned.

"In order to have a winner, the team must have a feeling of unity; every player must put the team first- ahead of personal glory" - motivational sign at Halas Hall.

by propheteer on Aug 4, 2010 12:50 PM CDT up reply actions  

The ironic thing about this is...

That firing Hendry is probably the majority wish at BCB, so if you’re trying to say that you’re helping push what is wrong with BCB, I’d agree.

by bdlugz on Aug 4, 2010 3:51 PM CDT up reply actions  

I should rephrase a bit

I don’t think Hendry’s status has anything to do with my perceived opinion of the BCB crowd. As stated above in regards to the teenage girl reference, it’s more the overall attitude of its regulars and their acceptance of newer or less active members.

"In order to have a winner, the team must have a feeling of unity; every player must put the team first- ahead of personal glory" - motivational sign at Halas Hall.

by propheteer on Aug 4, 2010 5:11 PM CDT up reply actions  

It may not be the best writing but

the basic point is that the Cubs recent successes have more to do with the increased payroll than any great decisions by Hendry. I agree with that point. 3rd highest payroll in baseball and what do they have to show for it?

I think it is time for some new blood.

by rlpete on Aug 3, 2010 12:21 PM CDT up reply actions  

FLAGGED!!!

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by BrewCrew'sPrinceofDarkness on Aug 3, 2010 12:25 PM CDT up reply actions  

I actually agree with the OP

but this made me laugh.

To me it’s blatantly obvious that Hendry has been an overall bad GM. He has been outperformed by other teams GM’s while having the advantage of being able to spend more money than the rest of the NL.

How that performance is acceptable, I will never understand?

THE FONZ HAS ARRIVED!

by amaru on Aug 3, 2010 12:30 PM CDT up reply actions  

Because the Cubs used to be a lot worse

And they’re better than the Pirates. Duh.

by shoemile on Aug 3, 2010 1:11 PM CDT up reply actions  

FLAGGED!!!

For Personal Attack.

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by BrewCrew'sPrinceofDarkness on Aug 3, 2010 12:26 PM CDT up reply actions  

FLAGGED!!!

For flagging

"A dream you dream alone is only a dream. A dream you dream together is reality." John Lennon

by Cubbiegoon on Aug 3, 2010 12:40 PM CDT up reply actions  

FLAGGED!

For not seeing the irony in that paragraph. j/k

Proud recipient of a hot dog shot from the Iowa Cubs hot dog gun.

by IowaCubs- on Aug 3, 2010 1:57 PM CDT up reply actions  

Irony is the most misused word in the dictionary

There isn’t irony in the paragraph; not even by a long shot.

The team is better off than it was before Hendry took over as GM, but it has everything to do with the increased payroll, and little do with the decisions made by Hendry himself.

This is actually the intended meaning.

"In order to have a winner, the team must have a feeling of unity; every player must put the team first- ahead of personal glory" - motivational sign at Halas Hall.

by propheteer on Aug 4, 2010 12:58 PM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

poorly written maybe

but, I’m not sure if it qualifies as ironic

by Notsnud on Aug 4, 2010 12:57 PM CDT up reply actions  

You do realize...

…that Derrek Lee’s NTC is meaningless, right?

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by daver on Aug 3, 2010 12:04 PM CDT reply actions  

That was one of the things he was defending

MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown

by D98 on Aug 3, 2010 12:17 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions  

My bad.

Caught skimming again.

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by daver on Aug 3, 2010 1:07 PM CDT up reply actions  

Thank you.

This is an incredibly well reasoned post.

There is a contingent of BCB posters who will try to nitpick and find some fault, or who will call you names. Don’t sweat it. For some reason, some people seem to equate Their Cub Fandom with defending the indefensible.

Finally, I absolutely agree with your premise that MLB GMing, while certainly difficult to fully master, is not particularly difficult to grasp at a basic level. There are obvious mistakes which a competent GM will avoid, but which Hendry makes repeatedly.

MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown

by D98 on Aug 3, 2010 12:08 PM CDT via mobile reply actions  

It's easier to cling to the devil you know than take a chance with something else

That’s the mentality I see.

RIP Ronnie James Dio (July 10, 1942 - May 16, 2010).

by Ace Venom on Aug 3, 2010 12:10 PM CDT up reply actions  

I don't think

you could write that the GM was mostly-only (<— can’t be a real phrase) good because of high payroll. Yanks, Phils, Mets, Cubs, LAD, but not most organizations.

But… yes you could pick out bad deals from every GM and focus on them, I just don’t think that is what he is doing for the most part.

by ASpecialGuestAppearance on Aug 4, 2010 8:47 AM CDT up reply actions  

Well written, good points made but, sadly, a waste of time

Hendry has his defenders who will continue to support him no matter what bad moves he makes. They’ve taken positions and have no intention of reversing them (or even questioning them) no matter what the evidence is.

I was a Hendry supporter for a long time until the evidence of my own eyes became overwhelming. I argued in favor of the Milton Bradley signing…I was pumped about Alfonso Soriano…and I loved that he locked up Carlos Zambrano long term. Even with all of the possible negatives, I gave him credit for being smarter and more savvy than I was.
Now, with the distance of time, it’s easy to see that he got more than a little bit crazy once Zell opened up the company coffers. Whatever decent trades he made have been completely mitigated by his disastrous free agent signings. As much as I disliked Andy MacPhail, it seems pretty clear that he was good for Hendry in that he reigned in the GM’s spendthrift tendencies and forced him to focus more on his strength which was trading.
The really sad part though is that we have an owner who is, apparently, one of the Hendry lovers.
To borrow a line from a movie. “I weep for the future.”

by bluekoolaide on Aug 3, 2010 12:37 PM CDT reply actions  

Or as Rosenbloom says, ownership is holographic

RIP Ronnie James Dio (July 10, 1942 - May 16, 2010).

by Ace Venom on Aug 3, 2010 12:39 PM CDT up reply actions  

Rosenbloom nailed it perfectly

Ricketts, the Holographic Owner. What more is there to say?

by bluekoolaide on Aug 3, 2010 1:49 PM CDT up reply actions  

This reminds me of sabremetrics arguments

Many stat people have thin-skin when it comes to those who don’t bow down to the sabre God. THE STATS DON’T LIE, DAMMMIT!!!!!! Here, apparently one isn’t allowed to disagree that Hendry is a complete failure without some ridicule being thrown one’s way.

"When they signed Fukudome, I knew they were trying to get me fired". - Ron Santo, January, 2008

by BeerCub on Aug 3, 2010 4:37 PM CDT up reply actions  

I think you missed my point
Many stat people have thin-skin when it comes to those who don’t bow down to the sabre God.

by Wreckard on Aug 4, 2010 1:00 PM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

wreck'd

may addition by subtraction be real

by N Oakley on Aug 3, 2010 4:37 PM CDT up reply actions  

So perfectly put

"I think I'm going to a casino in Indiana and play snake eyes. I don't know what else to say, I'll be honest with you."

by AussieCub on Aug 3, 2010 11:35 PM CDT up reply actions  

You lost me when you defended the Bradley signing.

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al Yellon on Aug 3, 2010 12:42 PM CDT reply actions  

That's not fair

The only logical way to evaluate these moves is to judge them in the context of when they occured, not based on how they panned out. That’s why Nomar was a good move even though it worked out poorly, and Grabow is a bad move that has worked out poorly.

If I recall correctly, at the time of the signing, there was a general, yet cautious, support of Bradley as a Cub. I’m not saying that I liked that Hendry signed Bradley, if I were the GM I’d have stayed far away. But Bradley had shown to be a good player, and the only one of the options available who could actually play defense. I never said it was a good move, but it is a move far more defensible than Grabow or Miles.

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by WittyUserName on Aug 3, 2010 12:49 PM CDT up reply actions  

Because it was Bradley, yes

But trying to acquire a player with the skills he demonstrated was certainly NOT a bad idea.

Again, I would never have signed Bradley, but it was at least encouraging to see Hendry pursue a player that was actually talented.

Are you really dismissing my entire argument because you don’t like my assessment of the Bradley deal? Are you saying that because I didn’t think Hendry did that contract wrong that he must be a decent GM? So I don’t think he’s a bad enough GM?

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by WittyUserName on Aug 3, 2010 1:01 PM CDT up reply actions  

You have to take the actual player into consideration

If it had been anyone who wasn’t a huge cancer of a player with his skills, then your argument would be valid, but Hendry knew his name, and knew what he had done before. It was a GIGANTIC lapse in judgement and should CLEARLY go into the “strikes against” category.

by HuskerCorner on Aug 3, 2010 1:06 PM CDT up reply actions  

Exactly.

That’s one that is clearly in the “Hendry did wrong” category. You cannot parse it any other way.

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al Yellon on Aug 3, 2010 1:09 PM CDT up reply actions  

I put in the WRONG category

What is the beef here? It’s listed as one of his bad moves that you can’t really justify.

All I said is that I didn’t flat out hate the move as much as the others.

The problem that I have with it is that Hendry was either ignorant to Bradley’s issues, or was arrogant enough to think he could be the GM to solve Bradley. Whichever of those two Hendry is guilty of indicates that he has no business being in a position to make those decisions. Furthermore, the incentive for the 3rd year of that deal to kick in was insulting.

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by WittyUserName on Aug 3, 2010 1:14 PM CDT up reply actions  

I do.

That move — and the others that were made to “make room” for that outrageous contract — ruined the 2009 season.

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al Yellon on Aug 3, 2010 1:21 PM CDT up reply actions  

OK. What's your point?

My post illustrates that the moves Hendry made in that offseason were bad, and the trio of moves of Bradley, Miles and DeRosa was downright horrible. I don’t see where you disagree with me.

Your saying that I don’t think Hendry is bad enough?

I don’t follow your logic.

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by WittyUserName on Aug 3, 2010 1:28 PM CDT up reply actions  

No....

… you said you didn’t hate the Bradley move in total. It was not a good move for ANY reason.

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al Yellon on Aug 3, 2010 2:02 PM CDT up reply actions  

Al, what are you doing?

Are you really just trying to split hairs?

Here’s my entire quote on Bradley:

This is one that I don’t overall hate. Hendry finally invested in a player that got on base and played good defense. The problem that I have with it is that Hendry was either ignorant to Bradley’s issues, or was arrogant enough to think he could be the GM to solve Bradley. Whichever of those two Hendry is guilty of indicates that he has no business being in a position to make those decisions. Furthermore, the incentive for the 3rd year of that deal to kick in was insulting. It should have been 100 games started, not 75 games appeared in. That clause might as well not even have been in the contract if all he had to do was pinch hit 75 times.

That’s not saying that I approved the move. That’s saying that I didn’t hate it through and through. In fact I never said anything remotely postive about the signing other than :

This is one that I don’t overall hate.

Is the goal to not actually have a discussion on the merits of Jim Hendry as a GM, but instead to argue semantics and pick apart agruments based on word choices?

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by WittyUserName on Aug 3, 2010 2:13 PM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

Your point is...

you approve that Hendry went after that type of player (OBP, defensive ability), but you do not approve of who he signed ([name redacted]) to GET that ability. AKA, you are not in support of the Bradley signing.

Correct?

by Steven Schweickert on Aug 3, 2010 2:18 PM CDT up reply actions  

Exactly

I like Hendry going after a player with that skilset, but not that player specifically.

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by WittyUserName on Aug 3, 2010 2:20 PM CDT up reply actions  

That's how I read it too.

And I think he is correct. You can’t hate the fact that he signed a player with certain skills, but you can definitely hate the fact that he signed a specific player with those skills.

by ASpecialGuestAppearance on Aug 4, 2010 8:49 AM CDT up reply actions  

You BEGAN by saying you "don't overall hate" this deal.

Sorry, that’s a deal breaker for me. The entire idea of going after Bradley — whether for his presumed production or his other issues — was flawed.

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al Yellon on Aug 3, 2010 2:19 PM CDT up reply actions  

yep, welcome to BCB 2010.

As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.

by santoswoodenlegs on Aug 3, 2010 2:26 PM CDT up reply actions  

Why would we bother to debate you?

You yourself stated it cannot be debated? You really think people look to get into intelligent discussions with people who openly claim that?

Sorry, I’ll pass.

by bdlugz on Aug 3, 2010 2:28 PM CDT up reply actions  

Lather, Rinse, Repeat....
But the consistent dismisal of intellectual conversation or debate of an issue in favor of isolating an aspect of the debate and blowing it out of proportion is really infuriating.

If you’ll look past his slightly smarmy last sentence and try to engage in discussion, you might be surprised.

As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.

by santoswoodenlegs on Aug 3, 2010 2:36 PM CDT up reply actions  

I don't feel I made this debate inaccessible

The point of the last sentence of

I hope somebody could present a logical argument in defense of Hendry so that this might be a debate, but in all honesty I believe that to be impossible, because Hendry really is a bad GM.

Was not to imply that someone is stupid to suggest that Hendry is NOT a bad GM. But rather that I feel I’ve exhausted all logical avenues that might suggest he’s not a bad GM.

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by WittyUserName on Aug 3, 2010 2:42 PM CDT up reply actions  

Just as I feel I've exhausted all logical arguements as to why he ISNT terrible.

Either you haven’t read any other threads I’ve posted in or you simply choose to ignore it.

At the end of the day, it’s pretty obvious that it’s pointless for us to even try and argue about this, because it’s going to be a “YES HE IS” “NO HE ISNT” debate. I have, as I’m sure you do as well, better things to do than that.

That’s why I don’t understand why people post fanposts like this. We’re all knowledable about what’s happened while Hendry has been GM. We take that same information and we dont all come to the same conclusion. That doesn’t mean anyone is wrong – it’s an opinion. We don’t have enough information, nor will we ever, to know exactly what has happened since 2006.

To me this seems like an obvious dead end discussion across all of BCB.

by bdlugz on Aug 3, 2010 2:47 PM CDT up reply actions  

The key word is "discussion"'.

The Cubs GM. It’s a topic. This is a Cubs “discussion” website. People come here to discuss and debate. What would you rather they debate on? The season is over. People have opinions and come here to bounce them off of each other. We don’t need permission. If we think there’s a topic worth kicking around, we write about it. If Al doesn’t like it or thinks it’s inappropriate, he can delete it. If people don’t want to respond, they don’t have to. It’s really that simple.

Ron Santo - 8,143 ABs, .277 BA; 342 HR; 1331 RBI = NO Hall of Fame?

Brooks Robinson - 10,654 ABs, .267 BA; 268 HR; 1357 RBI = Hall of Fame.

Any more questions ?

by Easy Ed on Aug 3, 2010 3:41 PM CDT up reply actions  

So discuss it and move on.

We’re beating a dead horse here – there are enough Hendry discussions to fill an entire blog on its own.

by bdlugz on Aug 3, 2010 3:52 PM CDT up reply actions  

And yet you continue to join them.

How about YOU discuss it and move on.

The people who bitch about a fanpost or fanshot, claiming the argument is dead and OTHERS should move on, and spend the entire freaking day telling other people why they should stop talking about it are so goddamn ridiculous

by HuskerCorner on Aug 3, 2010 3:55 PM CDT up reply actions  

The really funny thing is --

After Hendry is canned, most of these Hendry defenders will instantly forget they ever defended him, and will pivot to blaming him for the next guy’s troubles.

It’s “my country, right or wrong”, but with baseball general managers.

Do you know how long the posters on this board defended Dusty Baker?

MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown

by D98 on Aug 3, 2010 2:35 PM CDT up reply actions  

Baker was a scapegoat.

As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.

by santoswoodenlegs on Aug 3, 2010 2:36 PM CDT up reply actions  

Isn't that in a Manager's Job Discription?

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by BrewCrew'sPrinceofDarkness on Aug 3, 2010 2:44 PM CDT up reply actions  

He was also

a bad manager.

DEJESUS!!!

by tomas21 on Aug 3, 2010 3:13 PM CDT up reply actions  

Ya gotta keep bringing the goat up, don't ya?

Ron Santo - 8,143 ABs, .277 BA; 342 HR; 1331 RBI = NO Hall of Fame?

Brooks Robinson - 10,654 ABs, .267 BA; 268 HR; 1357 RBI = Hall of Fame.

Any more questions ?

by Easy Ed on Aug 3, 2010 3:59 PM CDT up reply actions  

Honestly, he's making a good point here IMO.

Hendry addressed a team need, which is good. We all want our GM to address the needs of the team. That’s the part he doesn’t hate.

It’s who he went after to address the need that Witty doesn’t agree with. Ergo, Witty hates the move.

by Steven Schweickert on Aug 3, 2010 2:26 PM CDT up reply actions  

Al

what are you doing? It seems like your not even reading his posts.

Is his assessment of Hendry incorrect? Because by your arguments you are making a case for why Hendry has been a bad decision maker by reinforcing the idea that the Bradley signing was terrible.

THE FONZ HAS ARRIVED!

by amaru on Aug 3, 2010 3:31 PM CDT up reply actions  

so the answer is "yes" you are in fact trying to split hairs

And since you didn’t address it above, how exactly is the fact that Hendry signed a player you know was a bad signing, convincing you that Witty is WRONG in claiming that Hendry is a bad GM.

That’s 100% counter intuitive

by HuskerCorner on Aug 3, 2010 4:14 PM CDT up reply actions  

It's not as if Bradley's behavior issues were unknown

I always turn to the sports section first. The sports page records people's accomplishments; the front page has nothing but man's failures.
~Earl Warren

by lookingdeadred on Aug 3, 2010 1:50 PM CDT up reply actions  

Or the other 7 teams who have signed him.

Hendry was an idiot, but he isnt in a boat by himself. He can form an entire crew team for that one.

by bdlugz on Aug 3, 2010 2:59 PM CDT up reply actions  

Obviously.

I’m just saying, there was a lot of evidence for about 5 of those other teams too. Not trying to get Hendry out of the doghouse, he’s rightfully there for that Bradley deal. Bradley, is however, the gift that keeps on taking.

by bdlugz on Aug 3, 2010 3:03 PM CDT up reply actions  

none of those teams gave MB a $30 million deal

I am pretty sure that MB was working year to year before the Cub deal.

by holy mackeral on Aug 4, 2010 9:20 PM CDT up reply actions  

General, cautious support of Bradley.

I beg to differ. There was more on the " I do not want Bradley" then did want Bradley.

by Grockcubs on Aug 4, 2010 7:53 AM CDT up reply actions  

Good Points but Hendry is not a "bad" GM.

I’m frustrated with Hendry and the team as well.

I bash Hendry all the time but it is important to note that he created the 97 win team as well as destroyed it.

I guess my frustration is that Hendry’s problem is he can build a winner with a 1-2 year window to make the playoffs but has never shown the ability to build a consistent winner.

In my opinion with the Cubs ability to outspend the National League they should a playoff window every year or at least 3 out of 4 years. Something close to the Red Sox model.

I know a great deal of folks hate numbers but the numbers said that the Cubs lucked into the playoffs in 2007. Should have made the playoffs in 2008 and are a .500 ball club 2009 and 2010. Something tells me 2011 will be a rebuilding year. This means that over the last 5 years he has gotten a team that could make the playoffs 3 out of the 5 years. How many former Cubs GMs could say that?

Do I think Hendry is a bad GM? No. He’s average. He builds a team that can get to .500 and then attempts to add 2-3 pieces to get to 87-90 wins. If the 2-3 pieces work out then they are competitive if not then you get the cluster that is 2010.

It’s the same playbook 4 out 5 GMs use in the MLB. It makes Jim Hendry average.

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by BrewCrew'sPrinceofDarkness on Aug 3, 2010 12:44 PM CDT reply actions   1 recs

How many Gms (or even former Cubs GMs)

have the highest payroll in the NL at their disposal?

THE FONZ HAS ARRIVED!

by amaru on Aug 3, 2010 12:48 PM CDT up reply actions  

You & I don't often agree.

However, you have hit the nail on the head here. Again, just yelling for him to be fired accomplishes nothing.

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al Yellon on Aug 3, 2010 12:56 PM CDT up reply actions  

Why doesn't it accomplish anything?

He SHOULD be fired. he’s been pretty damn bad at his job the last few years. That’s a firin’ in my book

by HuskerCorner on Aug 3, 2010 1:08 PM CDT up reply actions  

Again

Name me a replacement who is both better and available.

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al Yellon on Aug 3, 2010 1:09 PM CDT up reply actions  

Doesn't make any sense

Are you telling me that if one of your camera operators continues to miss the shot and keeps flubbing his OTS boxes, you can’t fire him unless you have a replacement in mind? That’s ridiculous, Al, and you should know it.

When it’s clear someone isn’t worth hanging onto, you cut them loose and look for a replacement. The notion that a replacement needs to be found in advance is insulting to the intellect.

Shameless self promotion: Check out my website!!!
http://www.itsnotabook.com

by WittyUserName on Aug 3, 2010 1:12 PM CDT up reply actions  

Witty I'm frustrated too and I think some of Hendry's mistakes are unforgivable

but to be fair you should highlight some of Hendry’s successes as well.

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by BrewCrew'sPrinceofDarkness on Aug 3, 2010 1:18 PM CDT up reply actions  

I did

He HAS made good moves. But good moves don’t preclude Hendry from making moves that are inexcusable. That’s the point of my post.

Shameless self promotion: Check out my website!!!
http://www.itsnotabook.com

by WittyUserName on Aug 3, 2010 1:32 PM CDT up reply actions  

Actually, your analogy proves my point.

If you fire someone whose job needs to be done, yes, you need to identify a competent replacement who is available.

Just standing here yelling “FIREHENDRYNOW”, well, that’s pretty easy to do.

Name me someone who could do a better job who is available.

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al Yellon on Aug 3, 2010 1:22 PM CDT up reply actions  

Theo Epstein

how do you know he isn’t available?

by HuskerCorner on Aug 3, 2010 1:23 PM CDT up reply actions  

Right.

You think the Red Sox would just let him go? Doubtful.

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al Yellon on Aug 3, 2010 1:24 PM CDT up reply actions  

We're playing a game where I HAVE to come up with a replacement

in order to get rid of Hendry. Since I don’t have the authority to do either, I say…….YES for the right money he would leave.

by HuskerCorner on Aug 3, 2010 1:25 PM CDT up reply actions  

Actually the one that away would be Jed Hoyer

He was Theo’s top guy and the Padres got him. Kind of working out well for them. Timing was off on that though.

"Lou Piniella's been a great manager for a long time and I stand by him completely"
Jim Hendry

by Doggie Stalker on Aug 3, 2010 2:55 PM CDT up reply actions  

I too was bummed to see Hoyer go to the Pads

He seemed like a logical replacement when the time inevitably came.

by shoemile on Aug 3, 2010 3:05 PM CDT up reply actions  

Oh come on, Al

You obviously don’t fire the camera op in the middle of broadcast, although I’m sure you could handle the reins for 30 minutes. But everybody in that studio has a rolodex full of people to call to replace that guy the next day, you know it. I’m a freelancer, we all know tons of guys who can do just that.

There is ZERO chance that there’s nobody that the organization knows might make a decent GM. They don’t have to say “We’re going with (Insert Name)” they just have to say “We’re going to go with one of X,Y or Z and we’ll figure it out once we get rid of Hendry”

Shameless self promotion: Check out my website!!!
http://www.itsnotabook.com

by WittyUserName on Aug 3, 2010 1:31 PM CDT up reply actions  

Of course Cubs organization people would know a list of said names.

I have seen very few of the Fire Hendry crowd suggest any, and then only after I beg for one.

It’s negative rather than positive. I’m asking for you (and others) to suggest something better, rather than just tear down what’s here.

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al Yellon on Aug 3, 2010 2:03 PM CDT up reply actions  

Here's a name...

Andre Dawson

Ron Santo - 8,143 ABs, .277 BA; 342 HR; 1331 RBI = NO Hall of Fame?

Brooks Robinson - 10,654 ABs, .267 BA; 268 HR; 1357 RBI = Hall of Fame.

Any more questions ?

by Easy Ed on Aug 3, 2010 2:10 PM CDT up reply actions  

This doesn't make any sense

I’m not in a position to know who viable candidates are, and I’d wager that nobody else on this blog is. It’s not my job to know, and it’s not even a hobby of mine to know.

I offered myself. And I stand by my claim that I would make a better GM than Hendry given the same resources.

I might as well say “I met this guy on the train who wore a suit and seemed pretty smart. Hire him.”

My input as to who I think should replace him isn’t really relevant. The fact is that it is time to give someone on one of those short lists of names a shot.

Shameless self promotion: Check out my website!!!
http://www.itsnotabook.com

by WittyUserName on Aug 3, 2010 2:17 PM CDT up reply actions  

So why is it a hobby of yours to know Hendry is bad?

You have NO idea what goes on behind closed doors. You don’t assume you know a better GM for the job, but you assume ours is terrible? Mmmkay.

by bdlugz on Aug 3, 2010 2:22 PM CDT up reply actions  

In a vaccuum, yes.

I didn’t know we got sucked up. Sorry.

by bdlugz on Aug 3, 2010 2:29 PM CDT up reply actions  

So many jokes to make

And none are appropriate for BCB… SUCH a shame.

by bdlugz on Aug 3, 2010 2:34 PM CDT up reply actions  

Wow

Hendry IS bad. I’m enough of a fan of baseball and strategy to identify a bad poker player when I see one. Hendry is a bad poker player (in this case, GM)

I’ll say it a third time: I’D MAKE A BETTER GM. Am I saying that I should be the next GM? NO. The point is to get somebody in the position who actually understands strategy and investments.

I don’t know what assumptions I’m making. If I were to say “Joe Morgan would be a bad GM” THAT would be assumption, because I don’t have any real evidence to support my claim. We have more than ample evidence of what Hendry is capable as a GM, and he’s demonstrated that he’s not very good.

Shameless self promotion: Check out my website!!!
http://www.itsnotabook.com

by WittyUserName on Aug 3, 2010 2:37 PM CDT up reply actions  

Let's make one thing very very clear.

You know nothing about what it takes to make a good GM in baseball. You’ve never been in a baseball front office, discussed trades, discussed signing free agents, tried to sit down with a potential free agent and sell the city and the team.

I gaurantee you, you would fall so flat on your face you would have no idea what hit you. This is your problem – you’re looking at things as a fan, when that really isn’t fair at all. We don’t know 99% of things that go on behind closed doors, yet you’re acting like you’re a card carrying member of the soon to be GM club.

You don’t think Hendry is a good GM, that’s fine. You’re making claims that you can’t back up beyond that because you have no idea what you’re talking about. Either do I though, so this is only opinion. At the same time though, I don’t feel so sure of my opinion that I’d start a fanpost and then continue to blast anyone who disagreed with me.

I’ll trust Ricketts to make this decision and will most likely try to avoid any ridiculous conversations like this in the future.

by bdlugz on Aug 3, 2010 2:42 PM CDT up reply actions  

I'm not advocating that I be the next GM

But suggesting someone to be the next GM is a pretty fuitless effort, and my suggesting myself indicates that.

The point is to get someone who has a better mind for strategy than Hendry appears to have.

And while it’s irrelevant, I doubt I’d fall flat on my face. I’m sure being a GM is hard, but I wouldn’t be overally intimidated.

Shameless self promotion: Check out my website!!!
http://www.itsnotabook.com

by WittyUserName on Aug 3, 2010 2:59 PM CDT up reply actions  

...he know's nothing?

about what it takes to be a GM?

AND HE’d STILL DO A BETTER JOB. What’s that tell you about Hendry?

My God, what are you smoking? Hendry stinks. You get it?
And we don’t need to ‘name a replacement’ before you decide he stinks. Or before you can him.

What is with you people?

Let me draw you a picture.

MAKE THE ADJUSTMENT ALREADY. THIS GAME IS ABOUT ADJUSTMENTS.

by MaTheMeatloaf on Aug 3, 2010 4:15 PM CDT up reply actions  

Al, you're in an internet conversation with fans.

The onus is NOT on fans to name replacements for the GM.

Jim Hendry can be judged in a vacuum. He has failed, by any reasonable standard.

Moreover, his particular failures have been so obvious, and so galling, that a “replacement level” GM would almost certainly avoid them. MLB roster management isn’t rocket science.

Finally, you concede that the Cubs probably have a shortlist of potential replacements already in hand! Why do you constantly demand that any critic of Hendry do the same?! It’s nonsensical.

MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown

by D98 on Aug 3, 2010 2:20 PM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

And something he didn't demand

when everyone spent the first few months of the season calling for Piniella’s head. The double standard is absurd.

by shoemile on Aug 3, 2010 2:22 PM CDT up reply actions  

Because for the millionth effing time
I have seen very few of the Fire Hendry crowd suggest any, and then only after I beg for one.

That isn’t the point. We can recognize someone is doing a bad job, even if we don’t have his replacement lined up.

by HuskerCorner on Aug 3, 2010 4:06 PM CDT up reply actions  

I am pretty sure that out of all of the Baseball Execs

in the world, there is someone who could take the reigns even if for a short period to rebuild this club. There is always someone else to take over. Either a no name, or someone famous. There is a common feeling from and about people who leave an organization, that they can not be replaced, or that their job is too hard for someone else to do. But, when that person leaves, someone else takes over and life goes on.

We have a higher-than-most payroll in a usually easy-to-win division. Someone will want this job.

by ASpecialGuestAppearance on Aug 4, 2010 8:56 AM CDT up reply actions  

I'll tell you what Al, if Tom Ricketts contacts me and asks that question I'll get to work

UNTIL that happens, I will posit that the argument that since I cannot name someone off the top of my head who is better, none exists is one of the absolute dumbest in the history of mankind.

Whether or not I can name someone who does it better does NOT mean that Hendry is doing a good or even adequate job. I know the actual NAME of like 6 GMs other than Hendry, and only two are names I know because they have done a good or passable job.

Whether or not I can name his replacement, I can still recognize a job being done badly.

by HuskerCorner on Aug 3, 2010 1:14 PM CDT up reply actions  

Al, you and I agree completely here.

Until you can tell me a better than average GM’s name that can take over then you can’t just fire Hendry.

Hendry has allowed a good scouting team to do its job and is starting to produce C+ to B+ players which is good for the Cubs. If you are just going to bring in another average GM then you risk blowing up the scouting team which is not worth the risk for another average GM.

But I think the Cubs should be looking to upgrade where they can including GM, but no one’s head should roll till a candidate that can take the Cubs to the next level materializes .

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by BrewCrew'sPrinceofDarkness on Aug 3, 2010 1:16 PM CDT up reply actions  

At the current moment what is Hendry doing poorly?

The Lilly/Theriot trade was a great trade.

When the Winter comes and it’s time to sign free agents then I think it’s to bring in another voice.

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by BrewCrew'sPrinceofDarkness on Aug 3, 2010 1:50 PM CDT up reply actions  

Great?

I don’t know about “great” We basically traded Theriot for a lefthanded Theriot. and Lilly for one minor leaguer who most think could be decent, and one who probably will never see more than a cup of coffee in the show, and we sent money.

It was good, it was not great, and further, it was exactly the kind of trade any other GM in the business could, and would make. He might be better than Ned Colleti, but that’s damning him with faint praise.

And if you think Hendry needs help running things when it comes to rebuilding the team, I’m not sure what the hell you’re even arguing about.

by HuskerCorner on Aug 3, 2010 3:47 PM CDT up reply actions  

I think he needs help in contract negotiations.

I tel you this much though losing out to LA for Furcal really messed up Hendry’s head.

Since then if Hendry put a target on someone he has just over paid to get them in the door early, which leaves him negotiating against himself most times (see: Soriano, Bradley, Garbow).

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by BrewCrew'sPrinceofDarkness on Aug 3, 2010 4:06 PM CDT up reply actions  

If you honestly believe he's so bad at contract negotiations that he "needs help"

then I just absolutely do not understand how you can claim he deserves to be employed.

Contract negotiations is a pretty large part of his job wouldn’t you say?

by HuskerCorner on Aug 3, 2010 4:07 PM CDT up reply actions  

Alright

Let’s go with Kim Ng. Am I allowed to criticize Jim Hendry now?

by shoemile on Aug 3, 2010 1:21 PM CDT up reply actions  

That's a reasonable choice.

I assume she is available, since GM would be a promotion and most teams don’t stand in the way of an assistant who’s offered a promotion elsewhere.

But we don’t know if she’d be “better”, because she has no track record.

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al Yellon on Aug 3, 2010 1:23 PM CDT up reply actions  

so now we're not replacing a GM who has done a bad job

because we aren’t 100% certain that his replacement would do better?

by HuskerCorner on Aug 3, 2010 1:24 PM CDT up reply actions  

This being after a couple months of screaming

“FIRELOUPINIELLARIGHTNOW!” and not offering a replacement who was better and available.

by shoemile on Aug 3, 2010 1:29 PM CDT up reply actions   2 recs

he was awful as minor league director

so clearly “competence” isn’t something we need to consider

by HuskerCorner on Aug 3, 2010 1:25 PM CDT up reply actions  

As an aside, will any Hendry Defenders like to step up and defend his years as minor league director?

The results are in on that one — and it adds up to “amazing, laughable failure.”

MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown

by D98 on Aug 3, 2010 2:22 PM CDT up reply actions  

Gotta admit, Al,

these guys have a point. You can’t spend half the season screaming for Lou’s head without offering a credible replacement, then do the exact opposite thing in defending Hendry.

I think Hendry should be retained and overall has done a good job, but his leash is getting shorter by the season.

by Not Bruce Froemming on Aug 3, 2010 2:57 PM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

In fact...

… and you could look this up, I made a number of suggestions, but basically said it didn’t matter who it was, because I thought anyone could do a better job, at the time.

That’s not quite the same thing as the endless bashing of someone who has done some good things and some bad things.

And the fact is, he isn’t being replaced. So what is this then, an academic discussion?

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al Yellon on Aug 3, 2010 3:16 PM CDT up reply actions  

Completely agree...

…but it is so much easier for most fans to place the blame on the manager, because if you acknowledge the leader of your baseball organization (the GM) is the main problem, you are admitting that maybe it’s not as easy as just bringing in a new manager and everything will be dandy.

"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel

by MPH73 on Aug 4, 2010 11:08 PM CDT up reply actions  

Talk about being totally inconsistent

“but basically said it didn’t matter who it was, because I thought anyone could do a better job, at the time.”

Yes, and that’s what many of the “Bash Hendry” crowd is saying, and you steadfastly claim that’s not acceptable.


“And the fact is, he isn’t being replaced. So what is this then, an academic discussion?”

Neither was Lou, yet you started umpteen game recaps with “This one’s on Lou”, “it’s time for Lou to go” etc….etc…etc…

At least be consistent dude, you’re starting to look like a giant hypocrite on this issue.

by HuskerCorner on Aug 3, 2010 4:10 PM CDT up reply actions  

Actually Kim Ng isn't a bad choice...

pretty impressive:

http://losangeles.dodgers.mlb.com/la/community/executives/ng.html

Ron Santo - 8,143 ABs, .277 BA; 342 HR; 1331 RBI = NO Hall of Fame?

Brooks Robinson - 10,654 ABs, .267 BA; 268 HR; 1357 RBI = Hall of Fame.

Any more questions ?

by Easy Ed on Aug 3, 2010 2:59 PM CDT up reply actions  

REASONABLE?

SHE’S THE ASST. GM TO AN ORGANIZATION THAT TRADED FOR RYAN THERIOT….ON PURPOSE.

As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.

by santoswoodenlegs on Aug 3, 2010 3:05 PM CDT up reply actions  

OK...SORRY ...I'M SURE SHE HAD ALOT OF INPUT IN IT.

Ron Santo - 8,143 ABs, .277 BA; 342 HR; 1331 RBI = NO Hall of Fame?

Brooks Robinson - 10,654 ABs, .267 BA; 268 HR; 1357 RBI = Hall of Fame.

Any more questions ?

by Easy Ed on Aug 3, 2010 3:07 PM CDT up reply actions  

See, deja vu

Hasn’t this been hashed over a hundred times just in the past week?

by Arbusto on Aug 3, 2010 1:21 PM CDT up reply actions  

Do you want to talk about the Cubs team on the field?

Our Pitching the last few night has been AMAZING!!!

(This story was produced by BCPDnewservice. Our motto: If you don’t like this story then suck it!)

by BrewCrew'sPrinceofDarkness on Aug 3, 2010 1:58 PM CDT up reply actions  

it is a owners position to hire new gms.

not ours to suggest a replacement. Tom Ricketts is a business man who knows plenty of capable people to fill the role of GM. A good GM can hire competent people to help him run a team. Theo Epstein was not a Veteran GM. The Red Sox went out on a limb with him, and hired people like Bill James, and others to advise him. Jim Hendry, and the Tribune have put together and signed players who are lacking in fundamentals, poor on defense, and just recently hired a hitting coach who is asking players to be more aggressive. Until, we find a replacement who changes this whole organizations mindset on whats good quality baseball, the results will continue to be the same. If Ricketts didn’t have a new “team Direction” when he bought the team, we are in big big trouble

by Notsnud on Aug 4, 2010 2:43 PM CDT up reply actions  

Couldn't have said it better...

…and for those that say “who is better than Hendry”, I might add, who could have done worse with the highest payroll in the NL the last two years.

Long term success is driven by the overall quality of your organization, not some Johnny come lately manager that will solve all the problems. Good organizations with high payrolls like the Cubs, simply don’t have so many non-competitive years in such a short period of time – 05, 06, 09 and 10.

When that happens, something is broken within the organization that needs to be fixed and any new manager will likely be out the door in 3 years if it isn’t fixed.

"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel

by MPH73 on Aug 4, 2010 11:03 PM CDT up reply actions  

Nothing on BCB accomplishes anything

But the poster listed well reasoned and thought out reasons as to why Jim Hendry needs to be replaced.

It’s not acceptable to be an "average" GM when you have the resourced Hendry does and your team hasn’t won in 100+ years.

THE FONZ HAS ARRIVED!

by amaru on Aug 3, 2010 1:10 PM CDT up reply actions  

Exactly

Ownership is paying for a lot more than average.

by shoemile on Aug 3, 2010 1:16 PM CDT up reply actions  

I don't understand how you can call him average

If his goal is to build a team that can hover around .500 and then add a couple pieces to get to 90 wins, then what is he doing with all this excess payroll?

Teams with far lower payrolls can muster a .500 season. If Hendry needs to have one of the highest payrolls in baseball just to have the ability to add pieces to get to 90 wins, he clearly isn’t spending that cash as efficiently as possible.

I gave and still give credit for the 2008 team. But there was a fair amount of luck attached to that team as well. As I stated above, 21 of 25 guys had pretty great years. That’s fairly rare. They also stayed incredibly healthy. Hendry lucked out on Edmonds falling into his lap, Harden was better than could have been hoped for after he was picked up, Dempster surprised just about everyone, even Fontenot and Cedeño had very good years. The role players on that team were incredible.

Sure, Hendry deserves some kudos for the 2008 sqaud, and I know that he was in ‘win-now’ mode. But he built something that resembled more of a 90-win roster that had just about everything go right and got up to 97.

Shameless self promotion: Check out my website!!!
http://www.itsnotabook.com

by WittyUserName on Aug 3, 2010 1:09 PM CDT up reply actions  

I agree that Hendry wasted a great deal of the teams future payroll.

I also think the guy is a sucker at the bargaining table.

But when he was told “win-now” he did. Was it short sighted? Yup. But hell even the Yankees who have more money than god will miss the playoffs so don’t short sell the accomplishment.

Hendry’s time here has had mixed results. But lets look at the last 40 years. Fans in the 70’s and 90’s would have love a “mixed results GM.”

All teams that win 97 games have luck. It is just the way Baseball works. The trick is to put yourself in a position to have lucky things happen to you. It worked in 2007 and 2008. It didn’t last year. And 2010 and 2011 are rebuilding years. Hopefully if the Cubs get out from bad contracts next year than we will get another playoff run in 2012.

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by BrewCrew'sPrinceofDarkness on Aug 3, 2010 1:26 PM CDT up reply actions  

Another ridiculously specious argument
But lets look at the last 40 years. Fans in the 70’s and 90’s would have love a "mixed results GM."

So because the Cubs teams from 30-40 years ago were bad, we should be happy with a mediocre to below average GM?

by HuskerCorner on Aug 3, 2010 1:28 PM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

What???

Really, I hate the argument: “it’s been worse”. I bet fans in the 70’s and 90’s would have loved to have the highest payroll in their league too.

Oh and here is the trick to putting yourself in a position to win: Use the highest payroll in the national league to make wise baseball decisions so that you are in a position to get “lucky”. Hendry was never able to assemble a consistent winner and that’s why he needs to go.

THE FONZ HAS ARRIVED!

by amaru on Aug 3, 2010 1:44 PM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

Oh yeah your are right. Just spending money wins championships.

Sincerely,

The NY Mets

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by BrewCrew'sPrinceofDarkness on Aug 3, 2010 1:46 PM CDT up reply actions  

Nope. This is a strawman:

My argument on the other hand goes to my point that just because the Cubs can outspend most team does not mean they are just going to make the playoffs.

To Hendry’s credit when he was given money he built a winner.

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by BrewCrew'sPrinceofDarkness on Aug 3, 2010 1:55 PM CDT up reply actions  

But the world has Allies!

[...]when Giants coach Steve Owen, a certified defensive genius, was asked how he planned to stop Nagurski, he said: "With a shotgun, as he’s leaving the dressing room."

by NobodySpecial on Aug 4, 2010 3:07 AM CDT up reply actions  

Throwing out the Mets as proof is ludicrous at best

1) They are generally viewed as a poorly run organization
2) The Cubs payroll is higher
3) The Mets are better

by Shanghai Badger on Aug 3, 2010 4:05 PM CDT up reply actions  

You are missing the point again:

I’ll try this a different way.

Just throwing money at payroll does not make you a playoff team. The Mets have proven this over and over again.

When Hendry was handed a blank check he did manage to get the cubs into the playoffs.

This is an accomplishment. I’m frustrated with the fallout of his deal making but he did manage to buy the cubs into the postseason which is not a guaranteed thing, like the Mets have proven time and time again.

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by BrewCrew'sPrinceofDarkness on Aug 3, 2010 4:18 PM CDT up reply actions  

Yes, and he managed to do it, by radically messing up the franchise

to the point where now, we are locked into contracts no other team will take unless we take their ludicrously bad contracts in return.

Those aren’t the actions of a good general manager. And your statement that

When Hendry was handed a blank check he did manage to get the cubs into the playoffs.

Isn’t really all that impressive, SINCE HE WAS HANDED A BLANK CHECK

by HuskerCorner on Aug 3, 2010 4:22 PM CDT up reply actions  

I'm not missing the point, the point is missing the mark.

That’s like saying, “I got a D, but hey, my friend who is just as smart got an F. So I did well.”

by Shanghai Badger on Aug 3, 2010 4:28 PM CDT up reply actions  

Who's building a strawman now?

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by BrewCrew'sPrinceofDarkness on Aug 3, 2010 4:38 PM CDT up reply actions  

It's an analogy

You are using this point to assert that Hendry isn’t a bad GM. Or at the very least, to refute the results as evidence that he is a bad GM.

While your point is valid that the Cubs aren’t as poorly run as the Mets, it certainly doesn’t validate Hendry’s competence.

by Shanghai Badger on Aug 3, 2010 4:42 PM CDT up reply actions  

Which is funny

Because a lot of Hendry defenders like to use the line, “well, at least he’s not as bad as Minaya.”

by shoemile on Aug 3, 2010 1:55 PM CDT up reply actions  

Where did I say that spending money wins championships?

We have the highest payroll in the NL.

We should be contending year in and year out. We have not. What don’t you get?

THE FONZ HAS ARRIVED!

by amaru on Aug 3, 2010 4:18 PM CDT up reply actions  

I doubt the Yankees will miss the playoffs.

They’re tied for the division lead, and have the best record in baseball. By 4 games.

MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown

by D98 on Aug 3, 2010 2:23 PM CDT up reply actions  

Um you want to rethink that last part?

As you point out they are tied with Rays so they share the best record in baseball, they do not have it by 4 games. They are 7 up in the loss column on the Red Sox so they are in good shape but anything can happen especially since they
have numerous games left against each other.

"Lou Piniella's been a great manager for a long time and I stand by him completely"
Jim Hendry

by Doggie Stalker on Aug 3, 2010 3:00 PM CDT up reply actions  

So when guys have subpar seasons,

like many did in 2009, that’s Hendry’s fault?

by Not Bruce Froemming on Aug 3, 2010 2:58 PM CDT up reply actions  

Well to a degree it is

These are the guys he signed. Someone has to take responsibility.

"Lou Piniella's been a great manager for a long time and I stand by him completely"
Jim Hendry

by Doggie Stalker on Aug 3, 2010 3:00 PM CDT up reply actions  

Exactly. It was the players responsibility to tell management they

were getting older and may have started to decline.

may addition by subtraction be real

by N Oakley on Aug 3, 2010 3:12 PM CDT up reply actions  

Exactly. I find fault with things Hendry did and would like a

change going forward and I’m illogical. Hendry did a lot of good things, but I’m not giving him a free pass on the “tribune made me do it” defense.

may addition by subtraction be real

by N Oakley on Aug 3, 2010 3:42 PM CDT up reply actions  

He picked Lou, so any poor decision by Lou falls

back on him as GM.

may addition by subtraction be real

by N Oakley on Aug 3, 2010 3:44 PM CDT up reply actions  

But Lou is a WITCH!!!

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by BrewCrew'sPrinceofDarkness on Aug 3, 2010 4:02 PM CDT up reply actions  

burn her.... er him...

may addition by subtraction be real

by N Oakley on Aug 3, 2010 4:03 PM CDT up reply actions  

Yes and No

He can’t be held responsible for Ramirez missing a ton of time, or for Soriano playing, apparently, injured all year.

But he IS responsible for building a roster with enough depth to soften the blow of a key injury. Considering that the LF, RF, and 3B for the 2009 Cubs all had a history of injury, not having a guy who could be a quality backup at those positions was very poor roster construction.

The goal should be to collect players that will put up good numbers in a ‘typical’ year for that player.

The 2009 finished worse than it should have, but the 2008 also finished better than it should have. Neither are, in and of themselves, indications of Hendry’s GM prowess. But it’s his entire body of work that we need to look at. Give him some credit for a good roster in 2008, and give him some angst for the shallow roster and mediorce bullpen in 2009.

Shameless self promotion: Check out my website!!!
http://www.itsnotabook.com

by WittyUserName on Aug 3, 2010 3:06 PM CDT up reply actions  

At the start of the season most they were predicted to be a .500 team.

No one thought that Ramy and Dlee would suck this much and the bull pen would be stocked with arsonists.

Also if the cubs just had a .500 record against the Pirates and the Astros or a .500 record in 1 run games they would be looking at a .500 season.

The Cubs this year have been unlucky.

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by BrewCrew'sPrinceofDarkness on Aug 3, 2010 1:28 PM CDT up reply actions  

How is losing to crappy teams "unlucky"
No one thought that Ramy and Dlee would suck this much and the bull pen would be stocked with arsonists

The bullpen raised plenty of concerns for anyone paying attention.

by HuskerCorner on Aug 3, 2010 1:30 PM CDT up reply actions  

I HOPED he would

But I was far more concerned with HOW MANY unproven youngsters we were attempting to lean on. Including youngsters like Marmol who were unproven in the role they were put in.

by HuskerCorner on Aug 3, 2010 1:33 PM CDT up reply actions  

Look at the facts dude:

It was going to be Marmol closing. Guzman for the right side and Marshal from the left side. They also signed Garbow to back up incase someone didn’t work out.

Iowa was full of C- to B- prospects. The hope was 2 or three of these kids would be good long relief/6 inning guys.

This is the make up of most bullpens in the majors. Guzman got hurt, Garbow laid an egg, and none of the kids worked out. Bad luck.

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by BrewCrew'sPrinceofDarkness on Aug 3, 2010 1:37 PM CDT up reply actions  

Well

Guzman has never been healthy and Grabow was never very good…

by Luis on Aug 3, 2010 3:16 PM CDT up reply actions  

okay, dude

the facts are that NO OTHER supposedly contending teams came in with a bullpen as young or unproven as ours. So the assertion that “teams do it all the time” is nonsense, unless you include teams like the Pirates, and Orioles, in that assertion

by HuskerCorner on Aug 3, 2010 3:53 PM CDT up reply actions  

Most teams leave 2 or 3 spots in the pen open for Rookies to sink or swim.

Were the “Proven” guys great. By no means. Hendry was thinking stay cheap early with rookies get to the Trade Deadline and pick up a couple fresh arms for the stretch run.

Name a team with 6 ready to go MLB established revilers and I’ll show you a team with horrible starting pitching or no offense.

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by BrewCrew'sPrinceofDarkness on Aug 3, 2010 3:58 PM CDT up reply actions  

Look, I'm sorry, but the assertion that all teams who are looking to contend

have brand new closers, and basically four rookies in the pen is just not accurate. The attempt to claim that this season was “bad luck” is just effing laughable.

by HuskerCorner on Aug 3, 2010 4:02 PM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

Nothing on BCB accomplishes anything

But the poster listed well reasoned and thought out reasons as to why Jim Hendry needs to be replaced.

It’s not acceptable to be an “average” GM when you have the resourced Hendry does and your team hasn’t won in 100+ years.

THE FONZ HAS ARRIVED!

by amaru on Aug 3, 2010 1:08 PM CDT reply actions   1 recs

I was for Hendry up till this year...

… even though he had made plenty of bad decisions, I still felt the good outweighed the bad. Personally, I feel that the balance is shifting, and if he doesn’t do anything super positive this off season… i will be ready to see him go. I honestly hate to say that, but I haven’t felt so disappointed as a Cubs fan since Larry Himes destroyed my team back in the 90’s.

Come on Hendry…

by TheHawkRules on Aug 3, 2010 1:12 PM CDT reply actions  

I wasn't up for him

but I come from a similar place. I liked some things he had done, but I was always weary of these huge deals going sour too quickly (and seemingly to me, giving up on kids too quickly). All I do is watch baseball though, so I am not a default authority on such things. What I do know is personnel, and it seems like he did not manage them properly.

Maybe he just needs some cheap assistance, not a complete replacement. Is Maddux doing that right now, I’m not sure (or ever have been sure) what he is actual for (besides being really cool).

by ASpecialGuestAppearance on Aug 4, 2010 9:05 AM CDT up reply actions  

Somebody please explain to me

I have heard this so many times now that I need to ask. Where does this belief that the Cubs HAD to sign Soriano to SHOW the baseball world they were big spenders come from? That sounds ridiculous to me. In the end, in a market like Chicago, most free agents would come to the Cubs if they were offered the right money. I do not believe for 1 second that signing Soriano helped in any way to sign other free agents. And as far as showing something, if anything, it showed to the baseball world how stupid the Cubs can be when giving out long term deals.

by Luis on Aug 3, 2010 1:22 PM CDT reply actions  

Three words.

Hindsight, hindsight, hindsight.

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al Yellon on Aug 3, 2010 1:24 PM CDT up reply actions  

No way

That contract was clearly bad as soon as it was signed. Anyone with some statistical knowledge of baseball knew that it was too much money for too many years. Way to much.

by Luis on Aug 3, 2010 1:25 PM CDT up reply actions  

I remember thinking

“Cool, we signed Soriano. This will be the first step in kicking ass!”

And then I saw eight years, and I was thinking.

“Cool, he’ll be here for a long time, and we will be good for a long time!”

And then I saw the money spread out like that, and I actually said

“F&^k…”

Yeah, so I officially liked two-thirds of the signing…

by ASpecialGuestAppearance on Aug 4, 2010 9:08 AM CDT up reply actions  

Some people have really protected Hendry with the Soriano signing

At the beginning it was “yeah, it’s a ridiculous contract, but if they win the world series, it’ll be worth it.” Well, looks like that window’s closing, if not closed.

by shoemile on Aug 3, 2010 1:28 PM CDT up reply actions  

agreed again

I heard it was an 8 year deal and did a double take. My hope was that he would get us to the promised land, and that when he was a ridiculously overpriced 37 year old outfielder, I wouldn’t care as much because at least we had won something

by HuskerCorner on Aug 3, 2010 1:31 PM CDT up reply actions  

The whole baseball community went "8 year, WTF!?!" when they saw Soriano's contract

18 mill a year for 5 could be justified especially with the cubs making the playoffs in 2007 because of his bat. But everyone thought he WAYYYYY over paid for and that years 6,7,8 would be horrible.

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by BrewCrew'sPrinceofDarkness on Aug 3, 2010 1:32 PM CDT up reply actions  

That's exactly right

The funny thing is he couldn’t get it done with 8 years at 18 million… he had to add a NTC! Think about it…

I wouldn’t have given 5years/18 million to Soriano because he’s not the type of player I value much, but I can understand someone spending that on him at that time. However, given his age at the time, and overall production, giving 3 more years was irresponsible. How many players in the last 30 years have gotten 8+ year deals at age 31?

by Luis on Aug 3, 2010 1:40 PM CDT up reply actions  

True that contract was terrible and, while Hendry ultimately has to take the blame,

I don’t think we can completely discount McDonough’s participation. Remember that not long after he took over the Blackhawks presidency, the they signed Brian Campbell to a deal that is, in many ways, too similiar to just be a coincidence.

by bluekoolaide on Aug 3, 2010 1:56 PM CDT up reply actions  

Well

Soriano is exactly the type of player Hendry loves. I am sure he had his hand in this deal, and is at least partially responsible.

And if that isn’t case, there are many other examples of ridiculous contracts Hendry has given out in the meantime that are good examples of why he needs to go.

by Luis on Aug 3, 2010 2:46 PM CDT up reply actions  

You have no idea what you're even saying.

You’re saying you don’t believe someone with better information than you… but if somehow they’re right, you don’t care, because you’ll move on to something else!

by bdlugz on Aug 3, 2010 2:51 PM CDT up reply actions  

Listen

I’m saying that Hendry has handed out similar ridiculous contracts. I am also saying that Soriano is the type of player Hendry loves. And because of these two facts, I believe that at least he is partially responsible for this contract. Finally, even if he had nothing to do with it, there is enough evidence by now why Hendry should be out as GM of the Cubs.

by Luis on Aug 3, 2010 2:59 PM CDT up reply actions  

Like video evidence? A link?

He is a reporter with sources, that’s his evidence. He isn’t going to find a link that proves his point. Besides, that has been repeated by many people, not just Kaplan. McDonough supposedly added $ and years to Soriano’s deal without consulting Hendry.

by JSB on Aug 6, 2010 7:14 PM CDT up reply actions  

I have heard the same thing from my sources.

So although I’m not a huge fan of Kaplan’s, I think he’s right on this one.

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al Yellon on Aug 7, 2010 6:25 AM CDT up reply actions  

You know...

… sources work this way. They tell you what they know. And generally, at the time they tell you the information, it is true. However, sometimes things change in real life after you get the information.

That doesn’t mean the source is “wrong”. It simply means the circumstances changed. Or maybe you think everything I get is written on a stone tablet and can never be changed?

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al Yellon on Aug 10, 2010 4:50 PM CDT up reply actions  

Can't we have more flowery posts?

You know… ones with puppies and kitties and such? All these depressing posts are disrupting my bowls.

Proud recipient of a hot dog shot from the Iowa Cubs hot dog gun.

by IowaCubs- on Aug 3, 2010 2:01 PM CDT reply actions  

Here you go.

Although I don’t know what you’re going to do with those disrupted bowls.

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al Yellon on Aug 3, 2010 2:05 PM CDT up reply actions  

bowels

hehe

Proud recipient of a hot dog shot from the Iowa Cubs hot dog gun.

by IowaCubs- on Aug 4, 2010 9:57 AM CDT up reply actions  

I wnat two or three Jim Hendry-inspired fanposts everyday

they are so illuminating

I always turn to the sports section first. The sports page records people's accomplishments; the front page has nothing but man's failures.
~Earl Warren

by lookingdeadred on Aug 3, 2010 2:06 PM CDT up reply actions  

Uh...

Disrupting your bowls?? Bowls of?? Ice cream?? Just had some myself! Heavenly Hash. Great stuff! Afternoon snack. Or… uh… did you mean bowels?? Just wondering.

by Keithmc6 on Aug 3, 2010 3:13 PM CDT up reply actions  

The Cubs truly are toast

Cubs Toast

"Any player who gets the opportunity to play at Wrigley should welcome it"

by Itchy on Aug 3, 2010 2:07 PM CDT reply actions  

Fire Jim Hendry

Alan Trammell for GM.

RIP Ronnie James Dio (July 10, 1942 - May 16, 2010).

by Ace Venom on Aug 3, 2010 2:08 PM CDT reply actions  

Joe Morgan knows everything.

Why not him?

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by BrewCrew'sPrinceofDarkness on Aug 3, 2010 2:09 PM CDT up reply actions  

Isn't he working with the Reds these days?

RIP Ronnie James Dio (July 10, 1942 - May 16, 2010).

by Ace Venom on Aug 3, 2010 2:12 PM CDT up reply actions  

You don't know if he's better

Permission to bash Jim Hendry: Denied.

by shoemile on Aug 3, 2010 2:11 PM CDT up reply actions  

Fine

Ronnie Woo Woo for GM.

For the love of God, do not take that suggestion seriously.

RIP Ronnie James Dio (July 10, 1942 - May 16, 2010).

by Ace Venom on Aug 3, 2010 2:13 PM CDT up reply actions  

That would at least get him out of the stands...

…or WOULD IT???

Proud recipient of a hot dog shot from the Iowa Cubs hot dog gun.

by IowaCubs- on Aug 3, 2010 2:16 PM CDT up reply actions  

I don't know

RIP Ronnie James Dio (July 10, 1942 - May 16, 2010).

by Ace Venom on Aug 3, 2010 2:16 PM CDT up reply actions  

Well, Ricketts is still in the stands...

So no, he’d be in the stands. You know, for air-raid-siren; player-he’s-interested-in duty.

“I Woo want Woo Blake Woo DeWitt Woo or Shin Woo Soo Woo Choo Woo!”

by Steven Schweickert on Aug 3, 2010 2:22 PM CDT up reply actions  

Hire Hawk Harrelson

he knows everything, just ask him, plus he’s got experience. Mercy!

"Any player who gets the opportunity to play at Wrigley should welcome it"

by Itchy on Aug 3, 2010 2:16 PM CDT up reply actions  

Too late

In the process of writing long winded rebuttal on why Woo Woo would be a terrible GM. Mostly no experience.

by Arbusto on Aug 3, 2010 2:17 PM CDT up reply actions  

I see progress

At least you are not calling for Hendry to be drilled in the head.

I always turn to the sports section first. The sports page records people's accomplishments; the front page has nothing but man's failures.
~Earl Warren

by lookingdeadred on Aug 4, 2010 8:05 AM CDT up reply actions  

Poor use of an analogy

but this is splitting hairs…

In every business, there are things you simply don’t do. As a chef, you don’t serve spoiled food. As a Doctor, you don’t misdiagnose. If you’re an airline, you don’t crash

As you an airline you try not to crash, but every one outside of Quantas has done it and survived. Likewise, Doctor’s try not to misdiagnose but it happens all the time and they continue to practice

"All I want is food and creative love" - Rusted Root

by TheRiot Police on Aug 3, 2010 2:47 PM CDT reply actions  

Perhaps, but.....

If one pilot crashes over and over (and survives) he’s probably not being allowed to keep flying their planes.

If a doctor misdiagnoses on a constant basis, he’s probably not going to be practicing any longer.

by HuskerCorner on Aug 3, 2010 3:49 PM CDT up reply actions  

I'll name one!

I even have my license and stuff.

by Shanghai Badger on Aug 3, 2010 4:43 PM CDT up reply actions  

Ted Stryker?

Ron Santo - 8,143 ABs, .277 BA; 342 HR; 1331 RBI = NO Hall of Fame?

Brooks Robinson - 10,654 ABs, .267 BA; 268 HR; 1357 RBI = Hall of Fame.

Any more questions ?

by Easy Ed on Aug 3, 2010 4:45 PM CDT up reply actions  

I am...and don't call me Shirley.

Ron Santo - 8,143 ABs, .277 BA; 342 HR; 1331 RBI = NO Hall of Fame?

Brooks Robinson - 10,654 ABs, .267 BA; 268 HR; 1357 RBI = Hall of Fame.

Any more questions ?

by Easy Ed on Aug 3, 2010 4:47 PM CDT up reply actions  

Jack Roush

Ron Santo - 8,143 ABs, .277 BA; 342 HR; 1331 RBI = NO Hall of Fame?

Brooks Robinson - 10,654 ABs, .267 BA; 268 HR; 1357 RBI = Hall of Fame.

Any more questions ?

by Easy Ed on Aug 3, 2010 4:52 PM CDT up reply actions  

Al Haynes.

"One of the things I like about baseball is that between innings you can go to the restroom.'' ~Manny Acta.

by Goodie1969 on Aug 3, 2010 6:41 PM CDT up reply actions  

I disagree!

This is Chewbacca. Chewbacca is a Wookiee from the planet Kashyyyk, but Chewbacca lives on the planet Endor. Now, think about that. That does not make sense!

Why would a Wookiee — an eight foot tall Wookiee — want to live on Endor with a bunch of two foot tall Ewoks? That does not make sense!

But more importantly, you have to ask yourself: what does that have to do with this? Nothing. Ladies and gentlemen, it has nothing to do with this! It does not make sense!
 
I’m talkin’ about Chewbacca. Does that make sense? Ladies and gentlemen, I am not making any sense. None of this makes sense.

And so you have to remember, when you conjugating the Emancipation Proclamation… does it make sense? No! Ladies and gentlemen it does not make sense.

If Chewbacca lives on Endor, you must acquit! The defense rests.

Here, look at the monkey.

Look at the silly monkey!

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by BrewCrew'sPrinceofDarkness on Aug 3, 2010 3:50 PM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

I love Chewy ;)

"Well-behaved women seldom make History"---Laurel Thatcher Ulrich

by cooliogirl47 on Aug 3, 2010 3:58 PM CDT up reply actions  

And Chewy loves the ladies:

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by BrewCrew'sPrinceofDarkness on Aug 3, 2010 3:59 PM CDT up reply actions  

Awesome

The world's biggest BCS hater and damn proud of it!

Proud Colts fan boycotting StampedeBlue.com since 7/17/2010

The opinions of Brad Wells (BigBlueShoe) do NOT speak for all Colts fans. Most Colts fans are well informed and good people. This has been a public service announcement.

by MrNFL on Aug 4, 2010 7:45 PM CDT up reply actions  

Two reasons he should be let go (even though I say he should get one more year)

1. The Cubs are in fifth place in August
2. With this payroll, the Cubs don’t have one single superstar player to build around.

by Mapmaker on Aug 3, 2010 3:42 PM CDT reply actions  

GM selects next manager

may addition by subtraction be real

by N Oakley on Aug 3, 2010 3:43 PM CDT up reply actions  

I guess I view it as it's not just one more year.

It’s figuring out how to get out of the contract/age trap the team currently has and selecting the guy who will probably manage the team the next 4+ years.

One more year of Hendry as GM will impact the next 5-10 seasons. For all his good in his tenure, I’m scared enough of the “other” to want a change. Illogical to some.

may addition by subtraction be real

by N Oakley on Aug 3, 2010 4:02 PM CDT up reply actions  

New drinking game!

Gotta down one every time any criticism of our current GM is called, “bashing.”

Official MCM Pessimist.

Oh, I'm sorry; did I poke a hole in the echo chamber?

by The Jade Scorpion on Aug 3, 2010 3:43 PM CDT reply actions  

To anyone wanting Jim Hendry's job, I have a question for you

What are you willing to do to be the Cubs General Manager? Here’s what Hendry has done:

1. After college, took a job as a high school teacher and baseball coach in Miami.
2. This led to a job at Creighton University in 1983, and he was promoted to head coach in the middle of the 1984 season.
3. Hendry left Creighton after the 1991 season to become special assistant to then Florida Marlins GM Dave Dombrowski, and also coached minor league teams in 1993 and ’94.
4. He has worked for the Cubs since 1995. Prior to his promotion to GM, he was named Assistant GM/Player Personnel Director on October 12, 2001, and previously the Director of Player Development, in charge of both Scouting and Minor League Operations.

So before you think you could do his job, you should expect to pay your dues. That’s the business of baseball.

"They come to see me strike out, hit a home run, or run into a fence. I try to accommodate them at least one way every game." - Gorman Thomas

by RiskyBusiness on Aug 3, 2010 4:24 PM CDT reply actions  

well then that is pathetic

he has done all of this, and some fans still could do a better job.

by HardForharden on Aug 3, 2010 4:33 PM CDT up reply actions  

THIS is one stupid comment

It’s one thing to want him gone, it’s another to say this. Want to be taken seriously? Buena suerte.

"When they signed Fukudome, I knew they were trying to get me fired". - Ron Santo, January, 2008

by BeerCub on Aug 3, 2010 4:42 PM CDT up reply actions  

how is it stupid?

I never specified which fan it would be, just that some fans out there could do a better job, which taken in a literal sense is probably true

by HardForharden on Aug 3, 2010 4:44 PM CDT up reply actions  

Making it literally stupid

"When they signed Fukudome, I knew they were trying to get me fired". - Ron Santo, January, 2008

by BeerCub on Aug 3, 2010 4:45 PM CDT up reply actions  

no

it makes it literally rational

by HardForharden on Aug 3, 2010 4:45 PM CDT up reply actions  

Wow

Please don’t keep handng me ammunition.

"When they signed Fukudome, I knew they were trying to get me fired". - Ron Santo, January, 2008

by BeerCub on Aug 3, 2010 4:46 PM CDT up reply actions  

Too late, the gun is fully loaded at this point....

I LOVE that the people that claim Hendry is terrible also claim they personally could do a better job – and MEAN it.

by bdlugz on Aug 3, 2010 4:57 PM CDT up reply actions  

I never said I could do a better job

I said that there are people out there who could….which is probably a true statement

by HardForharden on Aug 3, 2010 4:59 PM CDT up reply actions  

Unless those fans have been in the game of baseball for well over a decade

And by in the game I mean at a professional level, learning the ropes, with knowledge of other GMs and deep knowledge of every farm team … you’re flat our wrong.

by bdlugz on Aug 3, 2010 7:50 PM CDT up reply actions  

I'm lost. If we were discussing whether Jim Hendry

was qualified to be a General Manager, I’ve been at this all wrong today.

I’m not even coming at it as Fire Jim Hendry because of all the bad. I disagree with some on where fault lies, but regardless of qualifications, should Jim Hendry be the GM for this offseason and 2011 and also give the next manager of the Cubs a 3-4 year deal?

If yes, why? Steve Phillips was the GM for the Mets. In some circles, prior experience is qualification enough, but I don’t want him in the city, let alone the north side.

may addition by subtraction be real

by N Oakley on Aug 3, 2010 4:35 PM CDT up reply actions  

I think Steve Phillips days as a GM are over

After the ESPN incident, how could you bring that liability onboard.

The OP said he could do a better job than Hendry. Easier said than done. Baseball is a business of relationships and they do believe in paying your dues one way or another. That’s all I was trying to point out.

"They come to see me strike out, hit a home run, or run into a fence. I try to accommodate them at least one way every game." - Gorman Thomas

by RiskyBusiness on Aug 3, 2010 5:16 PM CDT up reply actions  

What in the name of all that is holy are you talking about?

I don’t “want his job” I just don’t want him to have it.

This is a whole new level of ridiculously crappy defense of Hendry

by HuskerCorner on Aug 3, 2010 4:37 PM CDT up reply actions  

by the way, while he might have "put in the time"

I’d like to point out that he didn’t excel in any of the positions you mentioned, and was down right BAD at quite a few of them.

by HuskerCorner on Aug 3, 2010 4:38 PM CDT up reply actions  

some of the comments on here are so ignorant

I am talking about the comments of “name someone who could do a better job and are available” comments.

These come right after saying Jim Hendry is not a bad GM…well the statement above sort of gives in to that sentiment.

Jim Hendry is a bad GM, I don’t want to name someone who could do a better job or who is available, because that doesn’t change the fact of the matter, where the Cubs are in 5th place in the NL Central with the 3rd highest payroll in baseball

by HardForharden on Aug 3, 2010 4:32 PM CDT reply actions  

Dont forget they won the division in 2007 and 2008

and had severe injuries to their main core last year. Carry on.

by bdlugz on Aug 3, 2010 4:58 PM CDT up reply actions  

You're right, you didn't

and since you responded to my comment that they are actually WORSE this year, your argument is pretty lame

by HuskerCorner on Aug 4, 2010 8:31 AM CDT up reply actions  

fill in your argument?

you don’t even have an argument, all it is is a snarky, sarcastic statement that nobody can draw anything from

by HardForharden on Aug 4, 2010 11:56 AM CDT up reply actions  

My arguement is that although not a top GM in baseball

Jim Hendry has been far from awful. I also have argued that he has been placed into a bit of a unique situation, where an owner trying to sell the team may very well have pushed hard for him to make certain signings that he may not have otherwise.

The entire idea that we think we have an understanding of what has happened over the past 5 years is ridiculous to me. To everyone calling out to fire Hendry, I have simply stated I would much prefer to fire Crane Kenney and replace him this offseason, and look at replacing Hendry after 2011 if things are not looking up.

The reason I do not want to fire Hendry this offseason are 2 fold. First of all, I believe that a massive overhaul to the entire front office as well as the coaching staff would do more harm than good. Secondly, I believe that Hendry has more to offer the Cubs than we have seen in the past – I would like to see him work under Ricketts for more than a few months before we crucify the man.

Let’s get a new manager up and running, and hopefully a new team president, and let’s see where we stand at this point in 2011. We’re trying to recover from going for it all in a very small window. It’s something we all knew would come, but it seems pretty clear to me that very few people realized how painful it would be.

Clear enough for you?

by bdlugz on Aug 4, 2010 3:56 PM CDT up reply actions  

If a random poster on a cubs blog can't name a GM candidate who would do a better job than Hendry

than I don’t know who can. sign the extension! GET ER DONE RICKETTS!

i got nuthin

by joeschmitt on Aug 3, 2010 4:44 PM CDT reply actions  

Hendry

There are things about DeRosa’s trade that we don’t know. Like, did any aspect of that trade involve a quest for Peavy or was that a made-up story. Did they ever consider having DeRosa play RF in 09’ ? Also, was any aspect of that trade to curtail payroll because of the Tribune situation. I assume the payroll was an issue.

I think it was reasonable for Hendry and Co. to think at the time that Fontenot could handle playing more, he was a lower cost player and a lefty. Aaron Miles also came off a good year. But if Miles couldn’t back-up SS or 3B or both then the decision to sign him was strange under the circumstances.

The same type of thing happened in the outfield. They didn’t think Johnson could handle CF alone, Edmonds didn’t return, and they didn’t like Fukudome’s production, but Hendry didn’t sign a CFer and he didn’t make Fukudome disappear somehow. We all know what he did instead.

Even though Hendry had payroll contraints to deal with after the 08’ season, he could have avoided some of the above.

by AboutTheCubs on Aug 3, 2010 4:46 PM CDT reply actions  

Huh?

Disappear? Behind like what, a curtain? Saw him intwo, maybe?

… and they didn’t like Fukudome’s production, but Hendry didn’t sign a CFer and he didn’t make Fukudome disappear somehow. We all know what he did instead.

"When they signed Fukudome, I knew they were trying to get me fired". - Ron Santo, January, 2008

by BeerCub on Aug 3, 2010 4:48 PM CDT reply actions  

Disappear

Disappear means trade him or bench him like they’ve benched him this year.

by AboutTheCubs on Aug 3, 2010 6:13 PM CDT up reply actions  

Rec'd

You have do a great job of showing that Hendry is not the worst GM ever.

Would you be willing to take the other side and tell us all the things he messed up so that my theory of him being average would be complete?

Thanks, and well done.

(This story was produced by BCPDnewservice. Our motto: If you don’t like this story then suck it!)

by BrewCrew'sPrinceofDarkness on Aug 3, 2010 5:02 PM CDT up reply actions  

Felix Pie, really?

I thought we were over this… the guy has 2HR, 5RBI, and a .697OPS this season. Ahhh, and a lovely .301 OBP. He has not done anything ti disprove that he is Corey Patterson part deux.

While backloading deals may be sound in terms of the value of money, it brings a unique problem in that as players performance tails off (at the end of deals) they are making the most money, and are seem as impossible to trade, albatross contracts. Perhaps there is a reason why most GMs don’t backload deals as much as Hendry. Plus, backloading deals is a lot of times a way to mask payroll problems… since you have no payroll room because you made some bad deals, you backload deals and compromise the future. I think it’s not crazy to see backloading deals as a problem.

And as far as your theory of why Hendry is good in his first years… the guy has shown time and time again he is unable to properly evaluate hitting… and you can go back to the 90’s for evidence on that. I mean, we are talking about a guy who gave Aaron Miles 5 million and defended it by saying that he hit .300. Is there really anything else that needs to be said?

by Luis on Aug 3, 2010 6:16 PM CDT up reply actions  

Oh it's you
He has not done anything ti disprove that he is Corey Patterson part deux.

Why should he disprove a comparison that’s completely superficial? He was valuable last year, unlike Heilman. He’s cost controlled for years to come, unlike Heilman. He’s had a bad year this year but has been hampered by injuries.

While backloading deals may be sound in terms of the value of money, it brings a unique problem in that as players performance tails off (at the end of deals) they are making the most money, and are seem as impossible to trade, albatross contracts.

Someone didn’t read my link. It’s not a “unique problem” it’s a misunderstanding by you of the relationship between that player’s end-of-contract value and their overall contract value. If I have to pay to unload that contract, it’s not because the contract was bad, it’s that I am paying for production I got in the years before.

Fans are more caught up in year-to-year budgets than the teams themselves are. The Kevin Millwood contract is a good example of this. On paper, the Rangers owed him more money this year than they actually had to pay – because his backloaded signing bonus had actually been bonded 3 years prior. This is counted in their payroll looking from the outside in, but to the Rangers this was a sunk cost.

The only reason that this may be affecting the Cubs now more than it should is because of the change of ownership.

And as far as your theory of why Hendry is good in his first years… the guy has shown time and time again he is unable to properly evaluate hitting

“As far as your theory goes, here’s something completely unrelated to your theory”

by Wreckard on Aug 3, 2010 6:36 PM CDT up reply actions  

One more time

Pie had a .763 OPS last year in a half a season of at bats. That is meh. The only reason you guys keep saying that he was productive is that because of his defense he got a respectable WAR. However, I am sure you know, that any evaluation of his defense with so few innings is bound to have a very large error of estimation. So… I am supposed to see much value in a .763 OPS season, followed by a season of injury and mediocre hitting when healthy?

I understand overall contract value. It still doesn’t negate the fact that it becomes a problem when you are trying to move a player who is not productive and is making a ton of money. Plus, you didn’t comment on the most important point, which is that backloading can be used, and is used, to mask payroll problems and to buy yourself some years before you have to face the music.

Finally, you are trying to argue that Hendry can evaluate talent properly when he isn’t catering to his managers needs and desires. However, there is no evidence of that, neither with his comments when evaluating hitting, nor his track record when developing the farm from a long time ago. I just gave you an example to put into context how incompetent Hendry can be when evaluating hitting, regardless of what a manager may or may not want.

by Luis on Aug 3, 2010 6:46 PM CDT up reply actions  

Forget you're weird obsession with Pie for a minute
So… I am supposed to see much value in a .763 OPS season, followed by a season of injury and mediocre hitting when healthy?

Nowhere did I say “Felix Pie is going to be a star!” I said that turning 5 years of Pie into 5 months of Heilman was a dumb move. You’re getting worked up over nothing.

I understand overall contract value.

No, you obviously don’t.

It still doesn’t negate the fact that it becomes a problem when you are trying to move a player who is not productive and is making a ton of money.

The problem is that fans tend to say “Oh, this team’s budget for 2010 is $x million” when the reality of budgets is much more complicated than that. So fans, because they see the current year’s budget as a dot in a vacuum, look at a veteran’s bloated salary in the final year of a deal and say “Oh my god, we could be using that amount of money elsewhere!” which may not actually be true.

Cost certainty affords you the ability to change your future budget using money now. So because I, as the Cubs, know that Soriano will be making $18M in 2014, I can use money now to leverage against that and make it cost me less money then.

Meanwhile, a fan in 2014, driving in his flying car and interfacing with BCB through a neural stint, will swear and say “The Cubs budget this year is $165M and Soriano is being paid $18M of that! We could have used that to get Quartos, the Martian free agent slugging Left Center Fielder! Stupid Hendry!”

This fan will be wrong, because the Cubs ability to plan in 2010 for that 2014 budget actually increased that budget for the year 2014. So if Soriano and his contract ceased to exist, the 2014 budget might actually be $158M. They still can’t afford Quartos, who you will promptly accuse of using steroids without any proof whatsoever.

Plus, you didn’t comment on the most important point, which is that backloading can be used, and is used, to mask payroll problems and to buy yourself some years before you have to face the music.

I didn’t comment on that because it’s silly and stems from an inability to understand cost certainty, and an unwillingness to read the link I posted earlier.

Finally, you are trying to argue that Hendry can evaluate talent properly when he isn’t catering to his managers needs and desires.

Which is supported by the diminished ability of Cubs teams in each ensuing year of the manager’s contract. Your “counterpoint” is that Hendry can’t evaluate hitting, which neither refutes the point nor does it jive with reality. If that was true, Cubs hitting would never be good, as opposed to the reality I described where they start good and get worse each ensuing year.

by Wreckard on Aug 3, 2010 7:25 PM CDT up reply actions  

You are funny

Why? Let’s take for example your last argument about Hendry. Your evidence is that supposedly the Cubs get worse after the first year of a new management. First, you have two observation points… I am not sure if you are aware that with two observation points any conclusion you make is as likely (or more) to be due by simple chance fluctuation than any systematic thing you are claiming. But the funny thing is that it’s not even true in this 2 observation points! Why? Because the Cubs were inmensly better offensively in 2008 as compared to Piniella’s first year, 2007. So, your whole conclusion is based on two observation points that don’t even support your conclusion. Gotta love that logic.

by Luis on Aug 4, 2010 3:21 AM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

See now that's actually a counterpoint

“Hendry can’t evaluate hitting” doesn’t really prove or disprove my point.

In both cases, the teams tanked after 2 years of the new manager. Maybe it’s random, I agree the sample size is small, but the fact is there’s a narrative that always emerges that Hendry is making these questionable decisions in those years at the behest of his manager. Again, “Hendry can’t evaluate hitting” doesn’t really work as a counterpoint to that either.

by Wreckard on Aug 4, 2010 9:44 AM CDT up reply actions  

More on future money

Let’s see if you understand this:

I have no more room for next year’s payroll, or the year after that, and so on. So, I see that I have no contract obligations for 2020. So, I sign a 5 year contract with a player that will be paid mostly in 2020. I do the same with 5 other players. In the end, I end up paying less money by backloading the contract than I would be paying it the normal way. However, when we arrive at 2020, I have my payroll full of players that are not even playing anymore (they are retired). So, I have no money to pay for the 25 players that will actually play for the Cubs on the field.

See the problem?

by Luis on Aug 4, 2010 3:35 AM CDT up reply actions  

And just so you don't give the same reply

Let’s assume that the Cubs payroll was at the limit of what the club can pay in each year prior to 2020.

by Luis on Aug 4, 2010 3:40 AM CDT up reply actions  

See the problem?

Yes, the problem is you didn’t understand anything I typed.

The payroll is only “full” if you see it as a single data point that appears in a vacuum every year, and can’t be planned for in previous years.

If I signed a contract with a guy that pays $1M a year from 2011 to 2015 and $50M in 2016. The total value of the contract is 6 years, $55M. But because I know that a huge cost is coming in 5 years, I can buy a $35M bond in 2010 that pays out $50M in 2016.

That means that not only did I only actually pay $40M for that $55M contract, when 2016 comes that salary is already paid for. My payroll will be whatever everyone else is making + $50M, but in reality that $50M isn’t really $50M that could just have been used elsewhere.

by Wreckard on Aug 4, 2010 9:23 AM CDT up reply actions  

Do teams actually do this?

I know businesses use Future Value like this, but I have never heard of a sports team doing this. It would be smart though. I just figured all of these GMs spent paycheck to paycheck.

by ASpecialGuestAppearance on Aug 4, 2010 9:27 AM CDT up reply actions  

It's a business like any other, I don't see why they wouldn't

I know that deferred signing bonuses are required to be bonded. I can’t imagine why any well-run business wouldn’t use cost certainty to gain value.

I think team payroll budgets are presented as linear points just because it’s easier to understand.

by Wreckard on Aug 4, 2010 9:36 AM CDT up reply actions  

Aren't Deferred signing bonuses

just for the new players (draft, overseas), or do Free Agents actually get them too. I just thought that baseball contracts were all guaranteed money, and given spread out each year – at each years salary.

Maybe we should have put Soriano’s contract money in gold back then. We could have had a Yanks payroll this year!

by ASpecialGuestAppearance on Aug 4, 2010 9:46 AM CDT up reply actions  

No, free agents sometimes get bonuses too

See the Kevin Millwood contract for example.

by Wreckard on Aug 4, 2010 9:47 AM CDT up reply actions  

Cool

I wonder if the Rangers are on the hook for that bonus or the Birds. I would guess Baltimore, but I was reading somewhere that Texas still owed players from decades past, so I wouldn’t put it past them to still owe Kevin.

Did you catch that article? It was titled something like ARod Files Complaint in Rangers Bankruptcy, or something like that.

Yeah, so that seems like it would be a better way to write baseball contracts, but then I guess the bonus money has to be up front from the Team. It would save bundles though.

by ASpecialGuestAppearance on Aug 4, 2010 9:57 AM CDT up reply actions  

They are.

Off the top of my head, I think they owe him something like $13M – $3M for his salary this season and maybe $10M from the deferred bonus.

That bonus is bonded, but I imagine their creditors want that bond for themselves.

by Wreckard on Aug 4, 2010 11:07 AM CDT up reply actions  

Not that it would ever suck

to be a MLB baseball player, but it would suck to be Kevin and ARod through this. They agreed in a legal document to pay you, and maybe you will get it, but not at an opportune (or the agreed to) time.

um... no, i will not take a convoy to basrah

by ASpecialGuestAppearance on Aug 4, 2010 11:45 AM CDT up reply actions  

You know, this keeps bothering me
He has not done anything ti disprove that he is Corey Patterson part deux.

Let me ask you a question: is Tyler Colvin Corey Patterson Part Trois?

by Wreckard on Aug 4, 2010 5:00 PM CDT up reply actions  

OK
Backloading is only a problem for people who don’t understand how money works

Backloading isn’t, in and of itself, a problem. But they way these deals were structured has really hemoraged the payroll this year, and will do so next year as some of these guys get some big raises. I understand that inflation benefits the employer in regards to backloading a contract.

Zambrano would have been a 5-and-10 guy next year. The NTC only covered the first couple of years of his extension, which no one anywhere could have anticipated would go this badly.

I was defending the Zambrano contract. His is a contract that is often harped upon, but my point is that Z is not a serious strike against Hendry.

Lee’s NTC is a non-issue. It too only covered the first year of his extension, after which he was a 5-and-10 guy. Nothing Hendry could have done would have made Lee tradeable this year, unless Hendry was supposed to single-handedly create a new CBA.

I agree that Lee’s NTC is not an issue. I understand that he’s had 10-5 guy. But again, people complain about Lee’s NTC (and all the NTCs in general) so I defended the contract.

I would imagine Jim Hendry was more privy to Marquis’ asking price than you. Look back at what league-average pitchers were getting around that time in free agency and it really looks like a market-rate deal. At any rate, Marquis was worth more than he was paid so I’m not sure why you’re getting sticky about that contract.

You’re correct that I don’t no who would offer what for Marquis. I’m not a psychic. But I can take a pretty good guess. I’m sure another team would’ve signed him, but I think it’s pretty foolish to assume that another team would’ve match 3 years and over $20 million to this guy. I suggested 3 years $15 million, which I think is not only fair, it’s very reasonable. Yes, Marquis was worth more than he cost, I know that. The point is that Hendry could’ve gotten MORE value for his money but paying an average $5 million annually as opposed to $7 million.

Ahh, hindsight.

I don’t see anything in your link to MLBTR regarding Nolasco, Pinto and Mitre that changes my position. Mitre had some MLB time and was mediocre, I know that. And like many prospects, Nolasco and Pinto were at varying point in the systems ranking order the two seasons before the deal. I said I’d be lying if I said I knew exactly how valuable they were, and I didn’t. Perhaps “highly” was too strong a word choice, but they were certainly respected. And the fact remains that if just one of them became a decent MLB player, they would have had more value to the franchise, being cost controlled, than one year of Juan Pierre.

Great! Then we should have him playing here so he can develop against MLB pitching! Oh… you think that’s a bad thing?

You seemed to completely miss the point on Castro. If they had waited something like 3 more weeks, they could’ve gotten a whole extra season of cost controlled production out of Castro. Not waiting those 3 weeks was very short sighted, and could potentially cost the team several million dollars if they want to keep Castro in the future.

And yes, the season wasn’t “lost” at that point. But one player wasn’t going to save the season. And honestly, the roster was never good enough to be anything better than respectable. Pulling panic moves to try to save the season wasn’t really going to accomplish anything.

I thought this was rather straight forward. I don’t understand the angst on your part.

Shameless self promotion: Check out my website!!!
http://www.itsnotabook.com

by WittyUserName on Aug 3, 2010 5:32 PM CDT up reply actions  

Yes, Marquis was worth more than he cost, I know that. The point is that Hendry could’ve gotten MORE value for his money but paying an average $5 million annually as opposed to $7 million.

So you’re scathing indictment of Hendry is that while he did a good job on the Marquis signing, he could have done a really good job instead?

If they had waited something like 3 more weeks, they could’ve gotten a whole extra season of cost controlled production out of Castro. Not waiting those 3 weeks was very short sighted, and could potentially cost the team several million dollars if they want to keep Castro in the future.

This is completely false. You are confusing Super 2 eligibility with team control of a player.

by Wreckard on Aug 3, 2010 6:19 PM CDT up reply actions  

So you’re scathing indictment of Hendry is that while he did a good job on the Marquis signing, he could have done a really good job instead?

I wouldn’t say scathing, but yes it is an indictment of Hendry that he could’ve gotten an even better deal but didn’t. Was it a terrible signing? No. But it very easily (likely) could’ve been better.

This is completely false. You are confusing Super 2 eligibility with team control of a player.

Perhaps I’m misinformed. I was under the impression that his (Castro’s) Arb years will be reached a season earlier than it would’ve been had he been brought up in mid June as opposed to May. If that’s correct he’ll reach arbitration a season earlier, and thus be eligible for FA a season earlier. Is that wrong?

Shameless self promotion: Check out my website!!!
http://www.itsnotabook.com

by WittyUserName on Aug 3, 2010 6:23 PM CDT reply actions  

Yes, that's wrong.

Super 2 players get 4 years of arbitration, instead of 3. He will be a free agent at the exact same time he would have been if he’d been called up 3 weeks later.

This will likely be irrelevant as he’ll probably be extended before he even gets to arbitration.

by Wreckard on Aug 3, 2010 6:26 PM CDT up reply actions  

Yes same ammount of years

But “potentially” millions of more dollars. Instead of that last year of Cubs controlled pay, it will be the first year of Arbitration. Which would mean that it could cost the cubs millions that first year of arb (which was early), and then more each year after (if he is still good then (please God)).

Does that sound correct?

by ASpecialGuestAppearance on Aug 4, 2010 9:22 AM CDT up reply actions  

I said potentially

Which I believe is what the author was stating in his idea.

I do agree with you though. And I hope he does get extended. Maybe an actual good use for an eight year contract.

by ASpecialGuestAppearance on Aug 4, 2010 9:28 AM CDT up reply actions  

At least buy out his arb years

But I doubt that will happen until after his second season, going into his first year of arbitration.

Agreed, an 8-year deal next year would make sense if he’s able to prove himself 2 seaons in a row. He’s got chops – you might as well get as much of his peak as possible.

by Wreckard on Aug 4, 2010 9:46 AM CDT up reply actions  

Plus

I guess if you did sign an eight year deal and he was proving to be a value contract asset, his trade value is even higher and we could flip him for more prospects than we could have otherwise with a high FA contract.

Of course this is one year after the WS win, when we are rebuilding again!

by ASpecialGuestAppearance on Aug 4, 2010 10:00 AM CDT up reply actions  

You're also basing the value of Marquis on a complete guess by yourself.

You claim no one else would’ve offered what Hendry did, but you have no idea. At the end of the day, it was a good deal for Hendry, and you can’t decide to not like it because you think, with no knowledge of the situation, that he could’ve done better on the price.

by bdlugz on Aug 3, 2010 7:59 PM CDT up reply actions  

That's fair

Although the market value of a back of the rotation starter at that time wasn’t $7 million annually if I recall. Lilly and Meche set the market for middle of the rotation starters at about $10 million per year. $7 per is a bit high for a 4th or 5th starter.

Don’t get me wrong, the Marquis contract was alright, but it seems as though this was likely a good opportunity to get great value as opposed to just good value. Although the structuring of the deal hurt the team by being forced to dump Marquis for Vizciano since he was owed $9 million in his final year.

The goal of a contract should be to get as much value as possible, not simply to get enough of a value to make signing a decent one.

Shameless self promotion: Check out my website!!!
http://www.itsnotabook.com

by WittyUserName on Aug 3, 2010 9:08 PM CDT up reply actions  

Marquis wasn't a standard back of the rotation starter though

He was a huge innings eater that was putting up ERA+ of 100, which puts him above the average #5 for that time.

by bdlugz on Aug 4, 2010 9:04 AM CDT up reply actions  

OK

But an ERA+ of 100 isn’t really middle rotation starter material either. Which would likely price him at about a #4 starter. Perhaps it’s arguable that with a #3 starter worth $10 per, that a #4 starter was worth $7 per at that time. But that is an expensive #4, especially considering that Marquis didn’t really have much upside.

An ERA+ of 100 only seems to support the claim that Hendry overspent on Marquis. Again, I wasn’t against signing him, but I don’t understand how he couldn’t have been had for less cash.

Shameless self promotion: Check out my website!!!
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by WittyUserName on Aug 4, 2010 9:13 AM CDT up reply actions  

Like you said...

It was a different time, and pitchers got paid. Look at Silva for a prime example.

by bdlugz on Aug 4, 2010 6:21 PM CDT up reply actions  

Fantastic post.

Well-written, researched, etc. Great job. Recommended.

"The riches of the game are in the thrills, not the money." --Ernie Banks

by dtpollitt on Aug 3, 2010 9:48 PM CDT reply actions  

Al was right about one thing

This is an academic discussion.

No matter how good, bad or mediocre we think Hendry is, Ricketts is keeping him. The worst part about that is the number one reason might be that it’s cheaper to keep him than to bring in someone new.

DEJESUS!!!

by tomas21 on Aug 4, 2010 8:33 AM CDT reply actions  

Which is why I just hope for help

Just bring someone in to help Jim. Maybe like give him ownership of the Hendry signature stamp, so that Jim just can’t wield it at will.

by ASpecialGuestAppearance on Aug 4, 2010 9:24 AM CDT up reply actions  

If that is his thinking...

…it will end up costing him a lot more down the road.

"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel

by MPH73 on Aug 4, 2010 11:13 PM CDT up reply actions  

Rec

I do think it means, what you think it means.

His negatives severely outweigh the positives based on what you listed. A near blind man without statistics, or seasoned baseball experience could’ve evaluated market value, trends, and history better.

"In order to have a winner, the team must have a feeling of unity; every player must put the team first- ahead of personal glory" - motivational sign at Halas Hall.

by propheteer on Aug 4, 2010 1:02 PM CDT reply actions  

I think there's too much overanalyzing here.

Hendry’s been giving plenty of years and tons of money, and the team hasn’t escaped the first round. He’s made some good moves, but tons of bad ones, and plenty of those bad ones were criticized immediately by well educated fans on his site. He’s like a fly that keeps flying into the same glass door. He just keeps making the same mistakes over, while ignoring the massive wave of advanced stats that probably make the way to his desk every day of the week. He stinks, and he should be gone. It’s too bad that he won’t.

by dakoose on Aug 4, 2010 4:28 PM CDT reply actions  

you completely ignored the Samardzija deal

which was completely absurd. $10 million guaranteed, just to make sure he doesn’t play football. come on, now!

by holy mackeral on Aug 4, 2010 6:20 PM CDT reply actions  

it was over 5 years.

It was obviously a terrible deal, but not a major issue by any means.

by bdlugz on Aug 4, 2010 6:21 PM CDT up reply actions  

I'm not a fan

I think that paying Shark $10 million wasn’t a particularly good move. And if he went with his gut and/or ND fandom, then yes, it was a hgue mistake.

But from what I recall people seemed to think that Smardzija would make a fine MLB pitcher, and when Hendry drafted him there was tons of surprise because everyone thought he was headed to the NFL. If the people around Hendry were buzzing in his ear about this kid’s arm, $10 million isn’t the worst investment in the world to keep him from playing football.

Do I like it? No. But it’s not inherently boneheaded like say Aaron Miles or John Grabow.

Shameless self promotion: Check out my website!!!
http://www.itsnotabook.com

by WittyUserName on Aug 4, 2010 6:36 PM CDT up reply actions  

The real issue here are the 5,000

posts on this topic all through the season. I will never click on another one.

If I had the “dead horse” animation, I’d post it now.

by San Diego Smooth Jazz Man on Aug 4, 2010 6:53 PM CDT reply actions  

Here

The world's biggest BCS hater and damn proud of it!

Proud Colts fan boycotting StampedeBlue.com since 7/17/2010

The opinions of Brad Wells (BigBlueShoe) do NOT speak for all Colts fans. Most Colts fans are well informed and good people. This has been a public service announcement.

by MrNFL on Aug 4, 2010 7:46 PM CDT up reply actions  

...

The world's biggest BCS hater and damn proud of it!

Proud Colts fan boycotting StampedeBlue.com since 7/17/2010

The opinions of Brad Wells (BigBlueShoe) do NOT speak for all Colts fans. Most Colts fans are well informed and good people. This has been a public service announcement.

by MrNFL on Aug 4, 2010 7:46 PM CDT reply actions   1 recs

Why Jim Hendry is a Bad GM

Hendry produced a 97 win season in 2008, but his actions after that poisoned the team, as recounted many times over. But the one inexcusable thing he did, which I have not seen mentioned, is to keep David Patton on the roster for the entire 2009 season, basically in a mop-up role. Except for the time when Patton was on the DL, Hendry had the Cubs playing with a 24-man roster. Why would you do that if you’re trying to compete for a pennant? I note that Patton is struggling in Class A this year, and has been taken off the 40-man roster, with no one picking him up on waivers (surprise, surprise). Why hasn’t the press called Hendry on this move?
P.S. No one seems to have noticed that Starlin Castro has put himself in contention for the NL batting title. He won’t show up in the leaders yet, but will have enough plate appearances by the end of the season.

Basebiff

by basebiff on Aug 5, 2010 12:51 AM CDT reply actions  

If you're going to title a post like you did....

…. and then point out Patton, which might support your argument, and subsequently point out Castro could contend for the batting title, you have defeated yourself.

"When they signed Fukudome, I knew they were trying to get me fired". - Ron Santo, January, 2008

by BeerCub on Aug 5, 2010 7:51 AM CDT up reply actions  

If people are going to keep posting the "Fire Hendry" campaign...

then, you better have a plan of who to hire as his replacement.

Everyone makes checklists of his best and worst moves… OK, been there, done that a thousand times on this site. But, don’t underestimate the demands of the job, and just think anyone can step in and do it.

Hendry has built solid relationships with every GM in baseball. When Hendry calls another team or an agent, they answer the phone. If you’re going to replace him… you better do it with someone who has the same respect among the league, otherwise deals will be hard to come by when we’re trying to unload bad contracts. And, with new ownership in place… and an organization that might take on some re-structuring… Hendry’s MLB relationships and experience are a major asset.

"You win because of the quarterback. We have to get that position stabilized. We're fixated on that." -- Jerry Angelo (12.30.2008)

Jerry Angelo trades for Jay Cutler! (4.2.2009)

by SackMan on Aug 8, 2010 10:45 AM CDT reply actions   2 recs

Rec'd, rec'd, 1000 times rec'd.

Thank you.

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al Yellon on Aug 8, 2010 8:11 PM CDT up reply actions  

Your welcome... hopefully other people "get it."

"You win because of the quarterback. We have to get that position stabilized. We're fixated on that." -- Jerry Angelo (12.30.2008)

Jerry Angelo trades for Jay Cutler! (4.2.2009)

by SackMan on Aug 8, 2010 9:38 PM CDT up reply actions  

Get what?

That this team has the highest payroll in the NL and the third worst record? There are people out there who think Hendry is an absolute idiot. I’m not one of them, but what’s happening on the field is unacceptable, and I’m so perplexed as to why someone needs to offer a replacement before criticizing.

by shoemile on Aug 8, 2010 9:44 PM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

The Cubs had a plan... a blueprint that has worked before in professional sports.

And that plan was to mortgage the future by trying to buy a championship in the present… with a veteran team and a veteran manager. Unfortunately… they didn’t win it all.

And now, you guys are making Hendry out to be the fall guy, even though the writing was on the wall in 2007. Hendry got the green light to buy a championship, and put together the best Cubs team any of us have aver seen (a 97 win season). These are the consequences of that effort. Deal with it.

"You win because of the quarterback. We have to get that position stabilized. We're fixated on that." -- Jerry Angelo (12.30.2008)

Jerry Angelo trades for Jay Cutler! (4.2.2009)

by SackMan on Aug 9, 2010 12:05 AM CDT up reply actions  

I don't really get this line of thinking

It’s the same thing with Soriano. Hendry was given the green light to buy a championship. If he had, we’d all be singing his praises. Looks like he hasn’t though, so…we should all sing his praises? Not only did he not buy a championship, he didn’t buy a playoff win. It’d be one thing if the team he built in 2007 was still competitive; instead, they’re in fifth place. This is after, as you’ll recall, he was given the money to build a winner when the team he’d constructed ended up in last place in 2006.

Either way, if you want to believe Jim Hendry is still a good GM, I have no problem with that. Obviously I disagree (keep him around because he can sell off his horrid contracts for 40 cents on the dollar since he has friends, instead of 30 cents for the newcomer who everyone would obviously ostracize! Accountability? Eff that!), but hey, we all have differing opinions here and there. It’s just these qualifiers for criticism that drive me absolutely nuts, since Al’s bias (Jim rules, Lou drools) is what is driving this.

As I’ve said in other places in this thread as well as about the managerial search, we have so little information that no one can sit here and guarantee that a replacement would be better. But just because us uninformed yahoos don’t know who would be better doesn’t mean that such a person doesn’t exist.

by shoemile on Aug 9, 2010 1:25 AM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

That'd be fine, if you were using that logic to explain Soriano, Lee, Ramirez, Zamrbano...

It does nothing to explain Grabow, Rusch, Miles, Gathright . . . THOSE are the contracts that have me pissed off.

Those were pretty easy to spot as poor moves in foresight.

by Shanghai Badger on Aug 9, 2010 1:52 PM CDT up reply actions  

What about...

…$10 mil to spellcheck?

"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel

by MPH73 on Aug 9, 2010 2:31 PM CDT up reply actions  

I'm not necessarily trying to defend Hendry's moves

I’m just dumbfounded that he’s taking this kind of criticism… after he took the 2003 team 5 outs from the World Series… had to eventually pull it apart in ’06, and then rebuild in ’07 with a credit card… and won 97 games.

You can make a list of every bad move he’s ever made, but the fact of the matter is: the Cubs have enjoyed more winning under his watch than any other GM you or I can remember.

Grabow, Rusch, Miles, Gathright…. you can look at any other team in MLB and find the same number of bad moves…

The biggest negative to me is: we have the 3rd highest payroll in MLB, and we don’t have a single MVP or Cy Young candidate on our team. That’s disgusting. But… that’s what comes with the territory when you mortgage the way the Cubs did to try and win.

They put in their biggest effort to win, that was ever witnessed during the entire Tribune era, and you guys are complaining about the consequences of it? It seems ridiculous to me.

"You win because of the quarterback. We have to get that position stabilized. We're fixated on that." -- Jerry Angelo (12.30.2008)

Jerry Angelo trades for Jay Cutler! (4.2.2009)

by SackMan on Aug 9, 2010 4:59 PM CDT up reply actions  

No, you're not paying attention

We are complaining about his judgement.

His biggest apologists point to the success in recent years and state that it’s the best run they’ve had in 60 years. The rest of us say, sure – but it’s the most that they’ve ever outspent their competition.

The 2007 team did not win 97 games. In fact, in many years, they wouldn’t have made the playoffs with their record. One 90-plus win team in 7 years, with that payroll – unacceptable. The most losses since 1980 with that payroll – unacceptable. A decent shot to lose the most since 1966 with that payroll – unacceptable.

by Shanghai Badger on Aug 9, 2010 7:30 PM CDT up reply actions  

"Apologists"

When in doubt, build a straw man, label it, and argue against it.

by Wreckard on Aug 9, 2010 10:42 PM CDT up reply actions  

See this is why it's pointless to ever even try to engage in a discussion around here

You’ve got this “You’re either with me or against me” attitude that prevails around here. Either you want to fire Hendry, or you’re an apologist. There’s no middle ground in your mind.

Please show me where I argued anywhere in this thread that Hendry is a great GM.

by Wreckard on Aug 10, 2010 9:12 AM CDT up reply actions  

I gave it the attention it deserved.
Strawman, indeed.

You engaged in a textbook strawman. Rather than responding directly to someone’s points, you lopped all your opponents into a single ideological camp (Apologists) and then created an argument for this newly created camp, for the sole purpose of arguing against it:

His biggest apologists point to the success in recent years and state that it’s the best run they’ve had in 60 years. The rest of us say, sure – but it’s the most that they’ve ever outspent their competition.

Anyway, the Cubs have had high payrolls in the past – through much of the 90’s the Cubs were among the top teams in the NL in payroll. That money was spent with extreme futility.

by Wreckard on Aug 10, 2010 9:17 AM CDT up reply actions  

Maybe Ricketts...

…can do a fan pole to determine who a better GM would be.

"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel

by MPH73 on Aug 9, 2010 9:05 AM CDT up reply actions  

That is "fan poll"

"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel

by MPH73 on Aug 9, 2010 9:06 AM CDT up reply actions  

No, I kind of like "fan pole".

It would probably look something like this:

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al Yellon on Aug 10, 2010 4:51 PM CDT up reply actions  

Good thing, too.

Because those relationships have helped to build two Cubs teams (2006, 2010) that are among the worst in decades.

by Shanghai Badger on Aug 9, 2010 1:49 PM CDT up reply actions  

Seriously?

Do you really think that the new GM of the Chicago Cubs will be unable to get another team on the PHONE?

I hate this “critics must name a viable replacement” argument with the white-hot fury of a thousand suns. It is STUPID to demand that fans name Hendry’s replacement as a prerequisite of noting that he has failed, and failed miserably.

The probable success or failure of any number of hypothetical GM replacement is irrelevant to the determination of whether Hendry has failed.

MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown

by D98 on Aug 9, 2010 4:12 PM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

Why don't you ask Kenny Williams what he thinks about that.

He was openly frustrated in the media during the deadline this year… citing that he couldn’t get a hold of a number of new GMs who he wanted to deal with in any kind of urgent manner.

It’s a reality of business…

"You win because of the quarterback. We have to get that position stabilized. We're fixated on that." -- Jerry Angelo (12.30.2008)

Jerry Angelo trades for Jay Cutler! (4.2.2009)

by SackMan on Aug 9, 2010 5:02 PM CDT up reply actions  

Not to mention... relationships with agents... scouts... college coaches... etc.

When you need information… or are in a negotiation… or are trying to scout A ball players to include in a trade, etc.

This isn’t some fantasy job, where some baseball sabermatic geek can just step in and do the job. There’s more to the every day goings of being a GM than most people here seem to realize or give credit for.

"You win because of the quarterback. We have to get that position stabilized. We're fixated on that." -- Jerry Angelo (12.30.2008)

Jerry Angelo trades for Jay Cutler! (4.2.2009)

by SackMan on Aug 9, 2010 5:05 PM CDT up reply actions  

Who is saying that a possible replacement should just be coming off the street?

These relationships are also built by scouting directors and assistant GM’s, which is in all likelihood who the candidates would be.

This phone defense is strange. You say teams pick up when Jim Hendry calls, and then defend it by claiming teams don’t pick up for Kenny Williams. How about the Ricketts break the bank for the best secretary in the country and this won’t be a concern. Maybe Joan from Mad Men is available.

by shoemile on Aug 9, 2010 5:36 PM CDT up reply actions  

Didn't mention much about the farm system and lack of

player development for position players.

Regarding Soriano, I still think that was a bad deal at the time unless the organization was going all-in and becoming like the Yankees in their spending. It made great sense for the Tribune since they were selling, but even for impatient fans with a short planning horizon it was a poor decision. Don’t get me wrong, I like Soriano as a player, but unless you’re going all-in every year you are going to regret that contract and it’s going to limit what you can do elsewhere.

by DudeVf11 on Aug 9, 2010 10:54 AM CDT reply actions  

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