OT: Niemi Agent cost Niemi Hawks job?
There is speculation I have heard, let’s say from “Deep Hawk” that Niemi was not aware of the contract that was declined by his agent on his behalf. Word is that Niemi’s agent was swinging for the fences this off season wanting to make the most out of the Stanley Cup run for his client, and turned down deals that Nemii has since said he was unaware of and would have accepted to stay a Hawk. He wanted to be a Blackhawk and is not happy about this. Take into consideration Niemi speaks very little English, so it is possible that this is true or may holds some truths.
Now if any of this is true, it makes me wonder if it happens more than we know in three of the big four sports, where foreign players are common (NBA, MLB, NHL). Is anyone aware of the negotiation process, as in, does the player and agent get the offer or just the agent that the team is putting on the table? Details I am not aware of could swing this from plausible to bogus quickly, or the same details could actually give this some solid ground to stand on.
This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of SB Nation or Al Yellon, managing editor (unless it's a FanPost posted by Al). FanPost opinions are valued expressions of opinion by passionate and knowledgeable baseball fans.
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wow that is really sad if true, for him and the Hawks
Turco was on CSN tonight, missed it tho, hope to catch a repeat of it
"Well-behaved women seldom make History"---Laurel Thatcher Ulrich
I can see this happening.
Niemi was probably at home, letting his agent here in the US handle the negotiations. Maybe the agent is wispering in his ear about the huge payday coming his way. The agent thinks he can squeeze out some more money and boost his payday some. Young, foreign born players can be victimized.
Why isn’t Ozzie incredulous that the NHL isn’t protecting the Fins?
Don't take me as any kind of authority on this, but in general...
The player hires the agent, and it’s on the player to set the ground rules for how they want to be represented. For example, it’s clear that Scott Boras does all the talking for his clients. Lots of GM’s complain that they can’t get a word with the player while Boras runs his auction/head game/getting Texas to bid against itself until A-Rod was a $25m/year player.
But the player is the boss of the agent. The player can say “I want to hear about every offer”, or he can say “I give you the authority to take offers and use your best judgment to get me the best deal”. The player can tell the agent “I really want to stay with my team”, or “I want to play someplace it’s sunny”. In short, Niemi and Zito should have had a good conversation before this all started about what their goals were. And Zito should have had a good feel for the market to properly advise his client.
IMO, the agent horribly mis-read the market in three critical ways: First, Niemi was a “restricted free agent”, which in NHL talk meant that the Hawks could control when Niemi could get offers – until well after the main free agent market opened. With many teams limited by the salary cap, almost all of the available money was spent before Niemi was ever in a position to take an offer from another club.
Second, there’s been a general depression in the market for netminders because clubs like the Hawks and the SCUM have played a style that relies on quality defensemen rather than an “ace” goaltender. It didn’t help that big money goalies like Reboundo Luongo, Vaginy Nabokov, Khabibulin and Huet haven’t been getting the job done in the playoffs.
Third, once Hjalmarsson got his $3.5m offer sheet, that left the Hawks with a maximum of $1.5, maybe $1.75m for a starting goaltender. Anyone who looked at the CapGeek webpage for the Hawks could see this plainly. NHL player agents should be able to read a spreadsheet, but it appears Zito either could not see what limited resources the Hawks had left, or he thought there was a good deal for Niemi somewhere else. When the Turco news hit, the game was up.
(And on that last point, there’s also been some talk that GM Bowman had the offer from Turco to come play for whatever the Hawks could pay.. the rumor is Bowman had offer that in his back pocket for some time. If true, that made matching the Hjalmarsson offer a much easier decision.)
Niemi’s best move now could be to sign a one-year deal as a backup somewhere in the NHL or Europe, and take another run next offseason when (a) he’d be an unrestricted free agent on day one – and (b) the Hawks will have an opening for a starting goaltender, and an extra $4m to spend once the bonus penalty comes off their books.
by The Deputy Mayor of Rush Street on Aug 31, 2010 9:11 PM CDT reply actions 1 recs
that is how i thought it was handled on average
and you sum it up well about the big 3 misses
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IMHO one thing that either Niemi or his agent did not take into consideration
is he was a one year wonder so far. he still needed to show he could do it for a second, thind and so on. he was not as proven as the agent was/is demanding on the FA market
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Which is precisely the reason for maximizing out..
Deputy Mayor summed it up above as far as I’m concerned, but those grand windows to cash in don’t always stay open. I think that whereas Niemi’s agent may have screwed up, he most certainly didn’t make the wrong choice in trying to cash in on Niemi’s shooting star.
You got to get your money when you can, where you can, wherever you can. Only problem is….the NHL ain’t MLB. If it was, we’d be hearing about the Rangers signing Niemi to a 7 year/$52M deal.
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by Gibbon Jockey on Sep 1, 2010 8:18 AM CDT up reply actions
especially when you are a rookie who was too old to be voted in ROY.
his window is shorter than many
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Is it hockey season yet? I want to hear Chelsea Dagger again.... :-)
"I'm not much of a chemistry guy, you know. Chemistry to me is a pinch-hit double with the bases loaded"--Jim Frey, Chicago Tribune, 1985.
training camp festival is sept 18th
If you want a taste of what’s to come and have some fun to boot, head on over to the UC in 2½ weeks.
Just win the next game...!
God I wish i could
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Open to ANYONE
Tix are $5 (parking is FREE) and can be purchased thru the ‘Hawks site. Don’t know if any / how many tix remain.
There’s a 5k run and 10k skate in the morning and a 3-on-3 street hockey tournament later on but that requires a pre-registration.
Then inside there’s a red/white scrimmage and Q will be mic’ed for it; very cool to watch and hear these. Even better than the prospects camp since someone is mic’ed for it.
Think they even have a baggo tournament.
Just win the next game...!
One word answer Cubbie-Tim: YES
The goalie market is flooded, in addition: Many teams that could afford a ~$3M goalie are either too close to the cap or already have a goalie. Other teams that could use a goalie, cannot afford him.
Zito was basing his price solely on what Halak got from a desperate Blues team; $3.75M a year for 4 years. He completely over-estimated the market and blew it for his client.
I could see Zito demanding this kind of money if Nemo stood on his head to help the ‘Hawks win the Stanley Cup. But that simply was not the case. If Zito didn’t have his head up his ass, he would have changed his tune immediately after the ’Hawks matched the Sharks offer sheet for Hjalmarrson. Right then and there that should have sent up a red flag as to what was more important to the ’Hawks in spending money; a puck controlling, quick, shot blocking 23-yr old defenceman.
The ’Hawks could have won with a dozen or more different guys – not named Cristobal Huet – in the nets. In contrast Halak stood on his head for the Habs in the playoffs when they knocked the Caps and ’guins out of rounds 1 & 2.
IIRC, a team bidding on Nemo may have to be within 80% of the $2.75M arb award or $2.2M. Forgot that detail since very few guys go to arb with the controlling team declining.
The Blackhawks will be just fine with Turco in the nets. His numbers were similar to Nemo’s with a crummy defencive Dallas team the last 2 seasons. His puck-moving ability will work GREAT in the Blackhawks puck-control system.
Thirty-six days until the Cup defence begins!
Just win the next game...!
Very well stated.
I’m not buying that Niemi didn’t know the details of his situation, but now that he has no job (and no prospect of a job), miraculous stories will start to come out of the woodwork. Worse yet, too many sympathetic Hawks fans will buy this garbage and take pity on a guy who was fortunate to be in the right place at the right time.
"I feel sorry for people who don't drink. When they wake up in the morning, that's as good as they're going to feel all day." ~ Frank Sinatra
These are the same folks
bitching and whining about big Buff being the big loss when it is really Ladd’s 2-way physical presence and leadership (he’s 24 with 2 rings) that will be mostly missed on this 10-11 squad.
Just win the next game...!
Ladd and Versteeg both will be missed more than Big Buff.
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Buffers = DeRomantics
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you answered :=)
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"I could be writing this crap!" -- Crow T. Robot
Me: Q: I can run but not walk. Wherever I go, thought follows close behind. What am I?
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Steeger was flashy
and he scored some amazing goals. Here’s one:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ovus75MeYAk
A shorty non-the-less. Those will be missed. However, his inconsistency defencively, especially on the back-check at even strength drove Q nuts.
He’s a highlight reel waiting to happen and he’ll likely light it up with the Leafs if Wilson & Burke get some decent skaters out there with him.
Just win the next game...!
i am more confident to be honest with Turco over
Huet
Khab
Niemi
Turca has done more with less in front of him (so to speak)
Chronologically inept since 2060
"I could be writing this crap!" -- Crow T. Robot
Me: Q: I can run but not walk. Wherever I go, thought follows close behind. What am I?
Wrigster A: Theriot
Recently, yes
If you look back from the 02-07 seasons, Turco’s numbers are more representative of the team he had in front of him; that’s much like last season’s Blackhawks.
The big IF, is IF he can perform similar to those 02-07 seasons. Those Dallas teams averaged less than 25 SOGA where Turco won a lot of games; many against the ’Hawks.
The last 2 seasons Turco’s SOGA was over 29, therefore his GAA appeared to suffer. However during all these seasons, his SV% (.911) was almost the same as Nemo’s .912 last season.
The intangible is how well Turco’s puck handling abilities will fit in the ’Hawks style of play. Remember, the ’Hawks led the league averaging over 9 more SOG than they allowed last season.
Just win the next game...!
SOGA can be a hard stat to take too heart at times
kinda like yards agaisnt in NFL or win/loses in pitching. quality shots vs shots counted that were dumpd makes a big difference.
for an example, the Bears defense of 1985 that is touted as the greatest of all time by so many (myself included) benefitted from an offense that led the league in time of possession. its easier not to give up yards when you are not on the field, of Lilly as a Cubs in 2010 for win-loss record.
now same token, of course you cannot score without getting the puck on net, i do understand that very well.
Chronologically inept since 2060
"I could be writing this crap!" -- Crow T. Robot
Me: Q: I can run but not walk. Wherever I go, thought follows close behind. What am I?
Wrigster A: Theriot
You bet...
in any one game or even a couple games. There were games last season like a December game here against the Sharks where the ’Hawks outshot them 47-14 and lost 3-2.
For an entire season though to average 9+ more SOG than giving up is amazing.
Just win the next game...!
9+ is a great thing, agreed 100%
Chronologically inept since 2060
"I could be writing this crap!" -- Crow T. Robot
Me: Q: I can run but not walk. Wherever I go, thought follows close behind. What am I?
Wrigster A: Theriot
My realtor did this to me once.
I put an offer in on a house. Got word another offer had already been accepted. Shopped for other houses and scheduled an inspection for one of them. During inspection of said house, agent happened to let it slip that my offer on the first house was actually accepted after the other buyer declined upon inspection but the agent turned it down on my behalf. So maybe the house needed repairs, but at least let the client know what’s going on. I would have liked to see the inspection report if nothing else.
If true...
…that’s too bad for Niemi and he deserved more respect.
With that said, I am of the opinion the Hawks have likely upgraded their goaltending situation (at least in the short run) with a very motivated guy who has had a good level of success. Also, with the Hawks speed, I am anxious to see a goaltender that is adept at handling the puck and will help his defense and forwards breakout of their own end. Niemi was brutal handling the puck, and this may be a big help to maximize the clubs speed.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
You betcha
I could remember a 3-4 year span mostly before the lockout when the ‘Hawks would face the stars and the first word out of my mouth when I found out Turco was, “Shit !!”; knowing that they’d likely lose the game, and they did. A typical game ended with the ’Hawks scoring 1, maybe 2 goals while getting barely 20 SOG.
That was the era – not too sure how many here know this – when the Stars were always close to the league leaders in shots on goal against, a stat the Blackhawks lead the NHL in for the 2009-2010 season.
Just win the next game...!
Turco will be an upgrade, cannot wait for that
and I wish Niemi well
Chronologically inept since 2060
"I could be writing this crap!" -- Crow T. Robot
Me: Q: I can run but not walk. Wherever I go, thought follows close behind. What am I?
Wrigster A: Theriot
Yup, it was going to happen
The Sharks fans I talked with about this for several weeks now didn’t think it could happen. While I wasn’t sure, I told them they could NOT go into the season with Nittymaki in the nets as their #1 w/o having had a huge improvement in their back-end, which they did not do.
They’ll be better with Antti but it’ll be interesting to see how well he does w/o the awesome puck-moving defence in front of him.
Just win the next game...!
Second City Hockey
Not that I’m policing who posts what where, but out of my own curiosity, why not go to SBN’s Second City Hockey to talk Hawks? I’ve also noticed the OT Hawks game threads here at BCB, and was always curious why people didn’t go over to Second City Hockey.
SCH is definitely a raunchier and far less politically correct site than BCB, but there is a lot of knowledge over there.
Just curious.
Ditto for Badgerdano
SCH is definitely a raunchier and far less politically correct site than BCB
I think you’ve answered your own question.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
not necessarily
that could be a reason for some, but not everyone.
Most people can watch the R rated movie if they are able to look past the profanity, sexuality, etc to find the real entertainment value or purpose in the movie. That doesn’t mean that I think people should watch R rated movies if they aren’t your thing, but I’m just saying that you might be missing out on some subject material that you might enjoy.
I know that BCB and SCH (as blogs) might not see eye to eye on an approach to content, but there are a few people who do read both. I don’t mean to start a blog war, I just find it odd to see blackhawk specific content on a cub blog.
Ditto for Badgerdano
Maybe that's a little too harsh a judgment.
I know you guys over at SCH are passionate and knowledgeable hockey and Hawks fans. The tone of SCH and BCB are different, as you have acknowledged. It may be that some Hawks fans feel more comfortable over here talking hockey.
Granted, that there are some who do read both. If that works for anyone, that’s great. I’m happy to promote any SB Nation blog.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
i do read, i just dont post often
same with Windy City Gridiron
Chronologically inept since 2060
"I could be writing this crap!" -- Crow T. Robot
Me: Q: I can run but not walk. Wherever I go, thought follows close behind. What am I?
Wrigster A: Theriot
Don't know, good question
I was surprised when ‘Hawks stuff popped up here. While you’re right on with the knowledge-base, I figured I’d give my thoughts on what Cubbie-Tim and others ask here. Often there’s a tie-in between Cubs & ’Hawks.
I encourage others here to pop on over to SCH as I did a few months ago. If you can withstand the language but are still intrigued on the ’Hawks or even a psychotic ’Hawks fan like me, you will all be fascinated with the thoughts, understanding and knowledge of many of the posters over there; just like here but without most of the !@#$%^&*()
Just win the next game...!
for me its a combo
a small part is the raunchier posting, i like being able to post without having to use 12 fbombs to fir in (so to speak), but the main reason is many here on BCB who like to talk hockey (and not just Hawk fans) who I post with about the Cubs a million times over.
Chronologically inept since 2060
"I could be writing this crap!" -- Crow T. Robot
Me: Q: I can run but not walk. Wherever I go, thought follows close behind. What am I?
Wrigster A: Theriot
for me, I feel intimidated by the posters there, I'm new to hockey and I dont think SCH would take kindly to bandwagoneers.
…that is just my opinion tho, I could be wrong. I was thrilled that I had company here, where I feel comfortable posting and asking questions of my fellow BCBers. They never ever made me feel like it was a bother. In fact I learned alot about it and the other teams. I hope my luv for hockey and the Blackhawks will grow to somewhere near my love for the Cubs and baseball.
once again thank you my BCB hockey buddies!
"Well-behaved women seldom make History"---Laurel Thatcher Ulrich
did you have an experience over there
that is comparable to what you are describing?
SCH welcomes bandwaggoners, especially those who are humble enough to label themselves as such.
Ditto for Badgerdano
I make it seem like
I’m over here recruiting for SCH. I’m not.
In summary, I just wanted to see what the logic was for the Hawks content here. The responses make sense.
Ditto for Badgerdano
Well
As a Hawk fan since the 60’s I’m well past the f-bomb stage and can do without it. I’m not against the occasional well placed profanity, but f-bomb for f-bomb sake just turns me off.
"When they signed Fukudome, I knew they were trying to get me fired". - Ron Santo, January, 2008
@hackerar...
to answer your question, I’ve never posted at SCH so I’ve never had a good or bad experience there. I just don’t think I would have anything to contribute to a discussion there. My knowledge of hockey is very limited. I read the SCH quite often and am learning that way. Maybe someday I’ll comment there :)
"Well-behaved women seldom make History"---Laurel Thatcher Ulrich
I personally tend to go to SSH for the simple reason that it's a great HOCKEY site...
…filled with knowledgeable and passionate Hawks’ fans. I actually like the raunchier tone…somehow, to me at least, it fits hockey better.
And the game threads are always a lot of fun too.
nothing wrong with that at all
i do enjoy reading their articles, like you said there is a lot of knowledge there no doubt.
Chronologically inept since 2060
"I could be writing this crap!" -- Crow T. Robot
Me: Q: I can run but not walk. Wherever I go, thought follows close behind. What am I?
Wrigster A: Theriot
I'm not a big fan of SCH
I post on the Bleeding Green Nation and Broad Street Hockey. Not as PhillyCub but under something else. I don’t feel like explaining on those sites why the only Philadelphia team I don’t root for is the Phillies.
During the finals, posters from SCH appeared like cockroaches in the post game threads on Broad Street Hockey after the first 2 games and lets just say they were rubbing it in our faces. Funny how those posters didn’t show up after Game 3 and Game 4. Lets just say the editors of Broad Street Hockey had enough and banned a lot of them.
Fast forward a month after the finals were completed. The editors of SCH and Broad Street Hockey had a food bet. If the Flyers won, the editor of SCH ships italian beef to the editor of BSH. If the Blackhawks won, cheesesteaks get shipped to the editor of SCH. Something happened with the shipping of the cheesesteaks, so the editor of SCH instructed all the posters of SCH to go over to BSH and remind them to pay up on the bet. So the posters of SCH hijacked the comments of every story, every fanshot and every fanpost on BSH about these cheesesteaks. What they didn’t know what that there was a problem shipping the cheesesteaks and it was being taken care by the editor of BSH. This should have been handled by the two editors of each website. This had nothing to do with the posters on both BSH and SCH. I’ve never seen an editor have his posters flood and invade another website
you're not a hawks fan
I wouldn’t expect you to be a “big fan” of SCH
The cheesesteak thing probably could’ve been handled better, but when the Broad Street Hockey blogger doesn’t respond to emails or other types of communication, simply asking if and when the cheesesteaks are coming, then I think it is fair to assume you are getting stiffed on a bet.
And as far as trolls go, there are people who troll sites and give their teams a bad name and it is in no way representative of the majority of posters on a particular blog. This is not a new issue to the blogosphere.
You’re comment is one-sided to be sure.
Ditto for Badgerdano
That was a bet between the
two editors. It had nothing to do with the posters on BSH and SCH. I thought it was immature and childish to have the SCH posters invade BSH. Let the editors figure it out.
As to trolls, yes there are trolls on every site and give their team a bad name. Some sites ban them right away, others tolerate them until a certain point. BSH tolerated them until it got to a certain point.
And Yes, I am one-sided
OT: Turco's new Blackhawks masks
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"Well-behaved women seldom make History"---Laurel Thatcher Ulrich

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