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Blown call saves the Phillies from being defeated by the Marlins and helps keep them in the divisional race.
Ball bounced foul twice before "painting the black" over 3rd base then bouces fair after the bag.
For all of you traditionalists out there, what if the East is determined by 1 game and the Phillies goto the playoffs over the Braves? I dont care what has happened in the past - we used to not have anesthesia during surgery - so should we not use it now that we have the technology?
Hopefully the next commish is a wiser man than Bud.

almost 2 years ago Cubs_ws_ring_tiny hansman1982 43 comments 0 recs  | 

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I was watching this game.

That was an absolutely horrendous call. Bob Davidson wasn’t even in proper position to make the call and replays showed him calling it foul before the ball even crossed third base.

As you noted, it could wind up being a factor in the NL East race. What if the Phillies wind up winning the division by one game? There have been two other games this year where bad umpiring calls have cost teams games. In both cases, the teams screwed are contenders: the Giants and Twins. What if those teams miss the playoffs by one game?

I posted about this today at SB Nation Chicago. It’s time for replay. NOW. What if a bad call like these costs a team a win in the postseason?

And the way things are going this year, you just know that’s going to happen.

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al Yellon on Aug 6, 2010 8:31 AM CDT reply actions   1 recs

Mark Cuban would have pushed for replay

Everything that can be counted does not necessarily count; everything that counts cannot necessarily be counted. -- Albert Einstein

by Worf on Aug 6, 2010 8:34 AM CDT up reply actions  

There's only one man who can do it no matter who pushes.

That man needs to get his head out of… the sand… and do it. Now.

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al Yellon on Aug 6, 2010 8:38 AM CDT up reply actions  

It's tradition not to do it

Everything that can be counted does not necessarily count; everything that counts cannot necessarily be counted. -- Albert Einstein

by Worf on Aug 6, 2010 8:39 AM CDT up reply actions  

You're preaching to the choir here.

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al Yellon on Aug 6, 2010 8:48 AM CDT up reply actions  

no because that isnt tradition

I Love Larry - Brick are you looking at random things around the room and saying that you love them - I Love Larry
Currently 34,839 on the Season Ticket Wait List - Expected age of being #0: 119

by hansman1982 on Aug 6, 2010 6:19 PM CDT up reply actions  

Incidentally...

…. I note you say “ball bounced foul about 5 feet from home”. That doesn’t make the hit a foul ball! The ball then hugged the line and clearly crossed right over third base. That makes it a fair ball.

In any case, put replay in and get these calls right. Bob Davidson blew it last night.

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al Yellon on Aug 6, 2010 8:32 AM CDT reply actions  

He blew it all right

Then after the game, said this:

“I was right on top of it, and it was wide of the bag,” he said. “What the ball did when it went past me is irrelevant. … I understand that’s the winning run, but in my opinion it was foul.”

Jesus. Just retire.

Scott Bora$ is satan.

by Canadian Cubs Fan on Aug 6, 2010 8:41 AM CDT up reply actions  

Replays showed he was clearly NOT "right on top of it".

He made the “foul” call before the ball even crossed the base. Awful.

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al Yellon on Aug 6, 2010 8:48 AM CDT up reply actions  

you are correct

I will change my post…for some reason I had a brain fart when watching the replay…

I Love Larry - Brick are you looking at random things around the room and saying that you love them - I Love Larry
Currently 34,839 on the Season Ticket Wait List - Expected age of being #0: 119

by hansman1982 on Aug 6, 2010 10:20 AM CDT up reply actions  

Replay and DP's

I have a question for Al and other pro-replay folks.

The phantom touch of 2nd base when turning a DP is a long tradition in baseball, rightly or wrongly.

Would this go away if replay were to be installed?

Eamus Ursuli!

by WGNstatic on Aug 6, 2010 8:51 AM CDT reply actions  

It most certainly would have to...and it should.

Ron Santo - 8,143 ABs, .277 BA; 342 HR; 1331 RBI = NO Hall of Fame?

Brooks Robinson - 10,654 ABs, .267 BA; 268 HR; 1357 RBI = Hall of Fame.

Any more questions ?

by Easy Ed on Aug 6, 2010 8:56 AM CDT up reply actions  

The phantom call has gone away...

…there have been plenty of calls at second that were called safe because of the ‘neighborhood’ play. I think the younger umps (who are the ones who call it) realize they are having every call sliced and diced on replay (as they should be)

It seems it is only the veteran umps that get involved in these egregious calls.

Steve Swisher - 1976 NL All-Star Catcher

by Dan Serafini on Aug 6, 2010 9:46 AM CDT up reply actions  

It would, but

I don’t care about the phantom touch, so long as it is evenly called and not egregious. It was put in for safety reasons.

Everything that can be counted does not necessarily count; everything that counts cannot necessarily be counted. -- Albert Einstein

by Worf on Aug 6, 2010 9:11 AM CDT up reply actions  

If that's the case, then it'll have to be written in the rule book...

because, you know sooner or later, in a game deciding instance, some manager would challenge it.
They should touch the base WITH the ball in hand. It’s how it was meant to be. If they don’t wanna get run over, then they should be an outfielder.

Ron Santo - 8,143 ABs, .277 BA; 342 HR; 1331 RBI = NO Hall of Fame?

Brooks Robinson - 10,654 ABs, .267 BA; 268 HR; 1357 RBI = Hall of Fame.

Any more questions ?

by Easy Ed on Aug 6, 2010 9:22 AM CDT up reply actions  

I'm saying that replay would get rid of it

And that’s fine.

But I’m also saying that of all the issues I have with baseball, the phantom touch isn’t one of them. We don’t need replay to solve phantom DPs.

Everything that can be counted does not necessarily count; everything that counts cannot necessarily be counted. -- Albert Einstein

by Worf on Aug 6, 2010 9:28 AM CDT up reply actions  

Yes.

Absolutely.

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al Yellon on Aug 6, 2010 9:21 AM CDT up reply actions  

but it shouldnt...

if we can avoid injuries in a case like this we should. The fielder is clearly trying to get an out and the runner is doing everything he can to break up the play – it is dangerous enough the way it is.

I Love Larry - Brick are you looking at random things around the room and saying that you love them - I Love Larry
Currently 34,839 on the Season Ticket Wait List - Expected age of being #0: 119

by hansman1982 on Aug 6, 2010 10:26 AM CDT up reply actions  

So, if a catcher has the ball at home plate before the runner gets there, ...

the runner should be out? It’s basically the same thing, right? Collisions are part of the game. We gonna start using the “protect the quarterback” idea in baseball? The more they make, the more fragile they become.

Ron Santo - 8,143 ABs, .277 BA; 342 HR; 1331 RBI = NO Hall of Fame?

Brooks Robinson - 10,654 ABs, .267 BA; 268 HR; 1357 RBI = Hall of Fame.

Any more questions ?

by Easy Ed on Aug 6, 2010 12:02 PM CDT up reply actions  

Oh goody, another piece of macho bullshit

Football has protected punters for years. The theory is that just after the kick is released is when the punter is most vulnerable. The same holds true for a second baseman or shortstop.

So long as it is even, I don’t have a problem with it.

And as far as replay goes, if you give a manager a limited number of challenges and he chooses to use his on the phantom touch, fair enough.

Everything that can be counted does not necessarily count; everything that counts cannot necessarily be counted. -- Albert Einstein

by Worf on Aug 6, 2010 12:18 PM CDT up reply actions  

+1

the catcher also has some padding to protect himself and that is a play that will or will not score a run so an out needs to be clearly made. At 2nd the thinking has always been that (at least this is what I was tought) as long as you go over the top of the base with the ball you should be allowed to clear out to avoid contact and potential injury since those kind of plays are fairly common.

I Love Larry - Brick are you looking at random things around the room and saying that you love them - I Love Larry
Currently 34,839 on the Season Ticket Wait List - Expected age of being #0: 119

by hansman1982 on Aug 6, 2010 1:46 PM CDT up reply actions  

Interference

It would be interesting to see if along with doing away with the phantom force out if there was also an increase in the number of interference calls for players breaking up the double play.

Eamus Ursuli!

by WGNstatic on Aug 6, 2010 11:21 AM CDT up reply actions  

I totally agree, Al

But as long as Bud’s in the “chair” it’s gonna remain the way it is. If last year’s playoffs obvious blown calls and Jim Joyce’s botched call on the “perfecto” didn’t sway Selig, I’m afraid nothing will. Didn’t he announce he’s retiring soon?

Ron Santo - 8,143 ABs, .277 BA; 342 HR; 1331 RBI = NO Hall of Fame?

Brooks Robinson - 10,654 ABs, .267 BA; 268 HR; 1357 RBI = Hall of Fame.

Any more questions ?

by Easy Ed on Aug 6, 2010 8:55 AM CDT reply actions  

I'm not sure when Bud's deal is up.

It can’t be soon enough.

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al Yellon on Aug 6, 2010 9:21 AM CDT up reply actions  

I just checked Wikipedia and it said this about Selig...not sure how to use the quote block, but, here it is...

“On January 17, 2008, Selig’s contract was extended by the MLB through 2012, at which point he plans to retire.8 Selig made $14.5 million in the 12-month period ending Oct. 31, 2005.”

So, 2 more World Series and Bud’s gone. He’s 76 years old…had no idea he was that old…wow!

Ron Santo - 8,143 ABs, .277 BA; 342 HR; 1331 RBI = NO Hall of Fame?

Brooks Robinson - 10,654 ABs, .267 BA; 268 HR; 1357 RBI = Hall of Fame.

Any more questions ?

by Easy Ed on Aug 6, 2010 9:27 AM CDT up reply actions  

Actually 3 more World Series, I guess.

Ron Santo - 8,143 ABs, .277 BA; 342 HR; 1331 RBI = NO Hall of Fame?

Brooks Robinson - 10,654 ABs, .267 BA; 268 HR; 1357 RBI = Hall of Fame.

Any more questions ?

by Easy Ed on Aug 6, 2010 9:32 AM CDT up reply actions  

block quotes are easy

< blockquote > text you want to blockquote < / blockquote > - minus the spaces in between the < >

I Love Larry - Brick are you looking at random things around the room and saying that you love them - I Love Larry
Currently 34,839 on the Season Ticket Wait List - Expected age of being #0: 119

by hansman1982 on Aug 6, 2010 10:27 AM CDT up reply actions  

noted

Ron Santo - 8,143 ABs, .277 BA; 342 HR; 1331 RBI = NO Hall of Fame?

Brooks Robinson - 10,654 ABs, .267 BA; 268 HR; 1357 RBI = Hall of Fame.

Any more questions ?

by Easy Ed on Aug 6, 2010 11:57 AM CDT up reply actions  

There's a pandemic of "old" that's killing the game

The commish. The owners. Front office staff. Umpires. Managers.

I for one will be thrilled when the old guard dies off and younger people with modern ideas start taking over. And it that makes me a practitioner of ageism, I stand guilty as charged.

I'll go to my grave believing Armando Galarraga tossed the 21st perfect game in MLB history.

by EalyEagle on Aug 6, 2010 11:09 AM CDT reply actions  

This will never happen because the umpires' union will protect him.

But Davidson needs to be forced to resign. He has been one of the worst umpires in the league for as long as I’ve been watching baseball. This just adds one more moment of embarrassment to his resume.

"Don't complain to me about the stormy weather, boys. Just bring the ship into port." --Steve Stone, September 2004

by ctcoff99 on Aug 6, 2010 12:21 PM CDT reply actions  

What if the NL East is determined by 1 game?

Oh it won’t matter. See, it’s still early – so that loss won’t end up counting as much at the end of the season.

by Wreckard on Aug 6, 2010 12:50 PM CDT reply actions  

Now you get it

Everything that can be counted does not necessarily count; everything that counts cannot necessarily be counted. -- Albert Einstein

by Worf on Aug 7, 2010 10:34 AM CDT up reply actions  

Could have said the same about 2007

Brewers vs. Braves. Mark Texeira called safe when he was clearly out. Ned Yost thrown out. Brewers lose. They went downhill and fell apart after that.

Cubs were being swept by Marlins…it looked just as bad.

Had Brewers won that game, I truly believe they would have had the momentum to win or at least battle Cubs in playoff spot for a 163rd game.

Or just talk to the Mets. They got eliminated on the final day in 2007 and 2008.

by ak123 on Aug 6, 2010 1:40 PM CDT reply actions  

One more thought on this topic.

Supposedly, the league has “umpire supervisors” at every game. Incidents like this, the Jim Joyce incident earlier in the season, last year’s postseason, etc. always beg the question, “what the hell do these supervisors do?” Are they basically pencil-pushers who spent their day just filling out forms and essentially becoming enablers for this kind of crap to keep happening? Or do they really have power over the umpires that they “supervise”? In other words, do the umpires, including the crew chief, actually report to the supervisors?

Umpires seem, to me, like tenured college professors. And supposedly having these people supervised by the league is like the meaningless evaluation forms that college professors would have the students fill out at the end of each semester. We all knew that these evaluations were meaningless unless it was a grad assistant that we were evaluating, so what’s the point? Maybe they do take disciplinary action against umpires and it’s all handled internally. If that’s the case, OK. Maybe we don’t have to make fines or suspensions against umpires public knowledge. But I just have a hunch, and I admit it’s only a hunch, that the umpires’ union protects them to the point where they almost never have to worry about being disciplined. Maybe I’m wrong about that, but I do know that things are not improving in terms of quality. If anything, it continues to decline.

"Don't complain to me about the stormy weather, boys. Just bring the ship into port." --Steve Stone, September 2004

by ctcoff99 on Aug 6, 2010 3:04 PM CDT reply actions  

..
But I just have a hunch, and I admit it’s only a hunch, that the umpires’ union protects them to the point where they almost never have to worry about being disciplined.

I would agree it’s definitely a factor, CT.

I'll go to my grave believing Armando Galarraga tossed the 21st perfect game in MLB history.

by EalyEagle on Aug 6, 2010 4:13 PM CDT up reply actions  

Maybe it will, maybe it won't.

Since the Cubs’ only postseason activity this year will be watching it on TV, to me it’s something of an academic question.

by MN exile on Aug 6, 2010 5:34 PM CDT reply actions  

since they had 3 extra home games vs Toronto

i would not let this one call determine in my mind the season. they had an unfair advantage with 84 home games, that to me is a bigger ordeal

Chronologically inept since 2060
"I could be writing this crap!" -- Crow T. Robot

by Cubbie-Tim on Aug 6, 2010 8:52 PM CDT reply actions  

absolutley that is a big deal

but having home field for 3 extra games does not equal 1 game in the standings…sure doesnt hurt, only time will tell in September if this game means anything and replay could have gotten it right…

I Love Larry - Brick are you looking at random things around the room and saying that you love them - I Love Larry
Currently 34,839 on the Season Ticket Wait List - Expected age of being #0: 119

by hansman1982 on Aug 7, 2010 7:49 AM CDT up reply actions  

Now there is an idea....

Perform surgery on Bud Selig without anesthetic.

Just for demonstration purposes, of course.

by ClarkFan on Aug 6, 2010 9:22 PM CDT reply actions  

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