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Ryan Dempster Has Shortest Start In More Than Two Years, Cubs Blasted By Pirates

Here's how one play can set the tone for an entire game.

In the first inning last night, the first three batters facing Ryan Dempster had grounded to third, walked and singled. This isn't terrible; Dempster thus had a runners on first and third situation with one out.

He got Garrett Jones to hit a comebacker. Ninety-nine times out of a hundred, he turns that into a 1-6-3 double play and gets out of the inning. But last night, Dempster bobbled the ball and could only get one out, at first base. A run scored. So now he's got two out, a run in and a runner on second; still not a terrible inning if you can get out of it.

Dempster himself admits he didn't do his job then:

"You've got to put that behind you right away and go out there and make pitches," Dempster said. "I didn't do a very good job making quality pitches tonight. I was prepared and I was ready but I didn't execute. When you don't execute, you get bad results."

The bad results were a double, a hit batter and another double, and the Cubs were in a 4-0 hole before they even batted. Seems likely that Dempster was upset with himself for not making the double play happen and may not have been focused on the hitters and, as he said, didn't execute his pitches. It was Dempster's second-shortest outing as a Cubs starter; the only shorter one was June 27, 2008 at the Cell, when he was knocked out after 2.1 innings.

Star-divide

The Cubs lost to the Pirates by the football-like score of 14-7; if you are into esoteric baseball trivia like this, it is the first time in Cubs history (going back to 1920) that they have scored 14 runs in a game and then given up 14 runs in the next game.

They did make it interesting with Koyie Hill's first home run of the season in the fifth and a five-run eighth. It might have been more interesting if not for Starlin Castro's error in the seventh, which led to the last three Pirate runs, all unearned. If the Cubs come up in the ninth trailing 11-7 instead of 14-7 -- well, maybe they don't go out meekly 1-2-3.

For his part, Hill came up in the ninth having a chance to hit for the cycle, having singled, homered and doubled in his three previous at-bats. While that might have been the most unlikely cycle in Cubs (if not MLB) history, Hill has actually hit three triples in the last two years, including one earlier this year. Instead, he grounded to second.

The Pirates' Garrett Jones continued his ridiculous hitting against the Cubs with a two-run homer; in 56 plate appearances this year he is hitting .384/.429/.661 with five doubles and four HR. Against everyone else he's hitting .230/.290/.363.

And a couple of idiots went shrubbery-diving last night after Neil Walker's three-run homer landed in the CF juniper bushes. Kids, don't do this. (And in my view, the throw-the-HR-ball-back practice ought to be consigned to history, too.)

Once again, attendance was part of the story last night. An announced crowd of 31,369 appeared to be no more than perhaps 18,000 or so in the house; only about 1,000 were in the bleachers. It's raining this morning and if they even manage to get the game in, there may be only half that number who actually show up. The game preview will post at 11:30 am CDT.

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Comments

Display:

Hopefully the attendance numbers speak loud enough for somebody to care about this team in 2011.

We are just a poor, poor team at fundamentals.

"The riches of the game are in the thrills, not the money." --Ernie Banks

by dtpollitt on Sep 1, 2010 7:42 AM CDT via mobile reply actions  

I understand the emotion but I fail to see the connection btw fundamentals & attendance

Definitely hope that Ricketts sees the attendance (or lack thereof) and realizes/addresses the implications of said sad numbers. But packed houses or tumbleweed conventions, I’m not sure I get how attendance figures into fundamentals.

Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."

by ballhawk on Sep 1, 2010 7:47 AM CDT up reply actions  

Well...

… poor fundamentals can equate into poor performance in general, thus losses and lack of interest, thus low attendance.

But a direct link? No.

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al Yellon on Sep 1, 2010 7:52 AM CDT up reply actions  

If they play well

people will come.

"Fasten those seatbelts!"-Pat Hughes

by katie casey on Sep 1, 2010 7:53 AM CDT up reply actions  

Terance (wo)Mann, is that you? ;-)

Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."

by ballhawk on Sep 1, 2010 7:55 AM CDT up reply actions  

Peace, love, dope!

Now get the hell out of here.

"Fasten those seatbelts!"-Pat Hughes

by katie casey on Sep 1, 2010 8:20 AM CDT up reply actions  

Poor fundamentals means poor preparation

and that extends from the front office all the way through the coaches and the players themselves.

Just win the next game...!

by blackhawk24 on Sep 1, 2010 8:45 AM CDT up reply actions  

So when you say 'poor fundamentals'...

…you’re including poor marketing fundamentals, poor financial fundamentals, poor public relations fundamentals etc. In that sense, I agree with you. I just thought Dan was speaking only of baseball fundamentals.

Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."

by ballhawk on Sep 1, 2010 9:12 AM CDT up reply actions  

Sorry, two separate thoughts.

One in the header: attendance.
One in the body: fundamentals.

Not meant to be related.

"The riches of the game are in the thrills, not the money." --Ernie Banks

by dtpollitt on Sep 1, 2010 10:27 AM CDT up reply actions  

I ♥ you Dan.

Wish you’d post more often.

Writing quality posts since 1931.

by chilango2 on Sep 1, 2010 10:41 AM CDT up reply actions  

Are you pulling my leg?

"The riches of the game are in the thrills, not the money." --Ernie Banks

by dtpollitt on Sep 1, 2010 4:10 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions  

but fundamentals are overrated

you know this…we just need to go out and sign Lee and Pujols and we will win every game forever

I Love Larry - Brick are you looking at random things around the room and saying that you love them - I Love Larry
Currently 34,839 on the Season Ticket Wait List - Expected age of being #0: 119

by hansman1982 on Sep 1, 2010 8:21 AM CDT up reply actions  

Garret Jones

It would be so Cubbie-like for Hendry & Co. to look at his Wrigley #s and sign him next year if a Dunn deal falls through. And then we’d be rewarded with a nice .230/.290/.363. line…

Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."

by ballhawk on Sep 1, 2010 7:44 AM CDT reply actions  

And give up prospects to boot

I was thinking the same thing last nite. Lets hope this Cub regime has learned from past mistakes.

You can get more with a kind word and a gun than you can with a kind word alone. - Al Capone

by RTGrules on Sep 1, 2010 8:40 AM CDT up reply actions  

thats how we got Gregg and that real short 2b that only hit the ball

to second base from the cardinals…Miles…yes Miles was his name

by cozmotaylor123 on Sep 1, 2010 9:46 AM CDT up reply actions  

I'm with you on consigning the throw-the-HR--ball-back practice to history.

It was cute at first, but now it’s just silly.

"Fasten those seatbelts!"-Pat Hughes

by katie casey on Sep 1, 2010 7:45 AM CDT reply actions  

The tradition is part of the cliche of Wrigley.

Home runs being thrown back often get bigger cheers than Cubs’ home runs. It plays into the “Cub fans don’t pay attention” meme.

Of course, they are paying attention now…by not showing up.

LaRussa is a dupe for Glenn Beck 8.28.10

by Dan Serafini on Sep 1, 2010 8:21 AM CDT up reply actions  

I was listening to the radio in my car...

…waiting to pick up my friends at the bus station – they’d taken a vacation to Paris on the occasion of their five year anniversary. Their bus pulled up about the same time as Castro’s error and I was doing the ol’ facepalm/temple massage when my buddy knocked on my window and said, “Yeah, don’t look so excited to see us!” After loading up their bags he heard Walker’s double and the score and said, “Oh, I see. Well it’s good to know things haven’t changed that much while we’re gone, because the Cubs still can’t beat the Pirates.”

by wallrock on Sep 1, 2010 7:50 AM CDT reply actions  

There's a bus route to Paris? Cool! ;-)

Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."

by ballhawk on Sep 1, 2010 7:52 AM CDT up reply actions  

Why not?

Sir Link-A-Lot

If the Cubs still have a chance, no matter how small, it’s still Go Cubs, damn the math and pass the KoolAid.

by eths on Sep 1, 2010 8:00 AM CDT up reply actions  

O'Hare to Madison

They took the train from Paris to Chicago.

by wallrock on Sep 1, 2010 8:34 AM CDT up reply actions  

I wish they'd announce

both the paid and the actual attendance.

"Fasten those seatbelts!"-Pat Hughes

by katie casey on Sep 1, 2010 7:52 AM CDT reply actions  

They used to back in the 1960's.

Jack Brickhouse would announce the paid attendance — which was then the turnstile count — and “total in the house” which included various freebees.

I’d love to hear the turnstile count. They definitely know the number, but don’t reveal it.

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al Yellon on Sep 1, 2010 7:53 AM CDT up reply actions  

I remember and miss the turnstile count.

Guess I can understand why they wouldn’t want to reveal it this year.

"Fasten those seatbelts!"-Pat Hughes

by katie casey on Sep 1, 2010 7:54 AM CDT up reply actions  

These no shows...

…must be making it tough on Pat and Ron to guess the attendance.

"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel

by MPH73 on Sep 1, 2010 9:24 AM CDT up reply actions  

Into the 70's too IIRC

Can still remember those days going with my Dad on Tue Sr citizens days when my “unreserved grandstand” at $2.50 would cost more than my Dad’s $1.50 Sr citizens’ ticket.

We’d get there and it would be a beautiful day against say the Dodgers and he’d turn to me and say, “hey look, the upper deck is open today”.

Just win the next game...!

by blackhawk24 on Sep 1, 2010 9:33 AM CDT up reply actions  

Does that mean that if you catch

a ball up in that corner of yours you will not give in to peer pressure and throw it back?

by paulucla on Sep 1, 2010 8:04 AM CDT reply actions  

That's correct.

I have a throwback ball in my backpack, duly marked as such. If we get a HR ball from an opponent, the throwback ball goes onto the field.

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al Yellon on Sep 1, 2010 8:10 AM CDT up reply actions  

Doesn't that just keep the tradition alive?

Since everyone else sees you throw a baseball back?

um... no, i will not take a convoy to basrah

by ASpecialGuestAppearance on Sep 1, 2010 8:21 AM CDT up reply actions  

Well..

…. actually, I wish the entire tradition would end.

But I would get great satisfaction out of throwing the wrong ball on the field and keeping the actual one.

We did this once in our group when we were still in RF in the old bleachers in 2003. Rafael Furcal, then with the Braves, hit a HR to my friend Jon right in front of me. I gave him the throwback ball to throw on to the field. It wound up in the Braves bullpen. We watched them pass it back and forth and read what I had written on it:

THIS IS NOT THE HR BALL. IT IS A THROWBACK BALL.

We could see them laughing at it. That was worth it. However, I’d just as soon see the whole thing end.

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al Yellon on Sep 1, 2010 8:33 AM CDT up reply actions  

For the very reason you cite

is why I’d like to see it continue. Saw something similar in LF in 07 IIRC against the ’stros. The ball thrown back was a rubber ball kids would normally use to play fast pitch against a brick wall. Carlos Lee picked it up, looked at it, shook his head, and had a smirk on his face as he threw it back in towards the IF.

Plus it likely pisses off schmucks like Marty Brennemann, so that in of itself is worth it to me.

Just win the next game...!

by blackhawk24 on Sep 1, 2010 8:50 AM CDT up reply actions  

Your point about Marty Brennaman is taken.

One of the reasons I’d like to see it end is that sometimes a kid who catches the ball gets pressured by drunk idiots to throw it back.

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al Yellon on Sep 1, 2010 8:56 AM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

Yes.

That really bugs me. I feel sorry for the kids. They may not realize that was a once in a lifetime chance to get a HR ball.

"Fasten those seatbelts!"-Pat Hughes

by katie casey on Sep 1, 2010 9:08 AM CDT up reply actions  

A few years back, Griffey Jr. hits one onto the street and a passerby ends up with it.

Caught up in the excitement and heat of the moment, he promptly heaves it back into the park. A few high fives from those around him and then he continues on his way. About 50 feet later, he stops, looks back and kinda shakes his head. The look on his face was no longer excitement – it was a mixture of regret and disbelief. Ken Freakin’ Griffey Jr! Hall of Famer!

Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."

by ballhawk on Sep 1, 2010 9:19 AM CDT up reply actions  

ouch

"Fasten those seatbelts!"-Pat Hughes

by katie casey on Sep 1, 2010 9:23 AM CDT up reply actions  

Well, then, if you're not throwing the home run ball back

you’re just throwing trash on the field because the opposition hit a home run.

that doesn’t make any sense.

WWOZ.org - New Orleans Jazz and Heritage Station

by Gibbon Jockey on Sep 1, 2010 8:57 AM CDT up reply actions  

Sure it does.

It gets the crowd off your back and you get to keep the ball.

"Fasten those seatbelts!"-Pat Hughes

by katie casey on Sep 1, 2010 9:10 AM CDT up reply actions  

You bet it does

because the person who got the real ball was very grateful for what someone else did for them.

Normally I carried a BP HR ball with me to a game in case that did happen to me. I’d for sure throw the BP ball back. Haven’t had the chance yet to do that or be close enough to someone else who caught the real deal to give them the BP ball to throw back.

Just win the next game...!

by blackhawk24 on Sep 1, 2010 9:40 AM CDT up reply actions  

I'd like to see it gone

But how does that happen? Do you start hauling out people who throw balls on the field? Seems like it’s been around so long that it would be impossible to get rid of without consternation

"It's all in the game, yo"

by Worf on Sep 1, 2010 9:07 AM CDT up reply actions  

The White Sox have started doing that.

The problem is, identifying who did it. You’ve got to start somewhere, though.

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al Yellon on Sep 1, 2010 9:09 AM CDT up reply actions  

True

Add it to my list. I still put the rotating band of D-list celebrities doing “Take Me Out to the Ballgame” as a bigger atrocity.

"It's all in the game, yo"

by Worf on Sep 1, 2010 9:53 AM CDT up reply actions  

I'm with you on the "TMOTTBG" thing.

Enough already. Let the team broadcasters rotate doing it.

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al Yellon on Sep 1, 2010 9:58 AM CDT up reply actions  

Or play a tape of Harry

Or just play the Ozzy Osbourne one forever. Hell, play that between every inning.

"It's all in the game, yo"

by Worf on Sep 1, 2010 9:59 AM CDT up reply actions  

And learn the words and sing it right!

I’m tired of them messing up my song. :) That includes Harry!

"Fasten those seatbelts!"-Pat Hughes

by katie casey on Sep 1, 2010 10:07 AM CDT up reply actions  

I think they play today, Al.

Looks doable from my North Side apartment’s window.

by elgato on Sep 1, 2010 8:26 AM CDT reply actions  

The forecast looks iffy

http://www.wunderground.com/sports/MLB/hometeam/Chicago:Cubs.html?st=1283350800&MR=1

If the Cubs still have a chance, no matter how small, it’s still Go Cubs, damn the math and pass the KoolAid.

by eths on Sep 1, 2010 8:40 AM CDT up reply actions  

Radar shows rain should be out of the area in a couple of hours.

There may be more this afternoon, though.

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al Yellon on Sep 1, 2010 8:43 AM CDT up reply actions  

Ugly game and I was surprised it went that way.

But, nothing surprises me any more.

This is only the beginning....Lou Pinella end of '07 season and Chicago Transit Authority (the band when they were really good).

by mrcubsfan on Sep 1, 2010 8:36 AM CDT reply actions  

...

"Fasten those seatbelts!"-Pat Hughes

by katie casey on Sep 1, 2010 8:44 AM CDT up reply actions  

In the grand scheme ...

I just don’t care about things like Cubs fans throwing home-run balls back, guest conductors for the seventh inning stretch or even the wave at Wrigley.

That’s not saying I go to Wrigley or root for the Cubs for any of those things. But I’m much more troubled by the state of the franchise’s talent and leadership than any side issues. I know you feel the same as far in terms of ranking the problems, Al. But I’m amazed that you find some of this stuff even noteworthy.

No disrespect.

by elgato on Sep 1, 2010 8:53 AM CDT reply actions   1 recs

Your criticism is unwarranted.

Do I think this is a major issue? No. But the team is 21 games under .500 and obviously, nothing’s going to change till the season is over.

Why not fix all the problems? Or would you rather this turn into a 24/7 bash Hendry site?

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al Yellon on Sep 1, 2010 8:57 AM CDT up reply actions  

Al, come on.

I didn’t say “this blog sucks because Al Yellon keeps mentioning stupid things.” I tried, apparently without success, to point out that I’m surprised that you feel the need to mention things like the wave, guest conductors and throwing home-run balls back. It was criticism, but it was pretty mild considering a lot of the talk around here. Or maybe we should start up again on peanut allergies?

In response to your response, you’re NEVER going to fix all the problems that fall into this category. Fans will continue to start the wave. They’ll throw home-run balls back. Maybe the team will stop having guest conductors, butI doubt it.

It’s true that not much can be done in the next month to address the team’s problems. But dissecting Hendry’s moves and misfires and talking about what could and should happen in the offseason is a LOT more interesting to me than talking about tired Wrigley traditions that won’t fade away anytime soon.

I’m sorry if you took a mild criticism that I intended to come across in a good-natured way as more than that.

by elgato on Sep 1, 2010 9:06 AM CDT up reply actions  

Yes, in the grand scheme of things, these things are minor.

They are part of the fan experience at the ballpark. That’s part of what baseball is about, thus I felt worth mentioning.

I’m sure we’ll have plenty to say about what could and should happen in the offseason. We already have. But again, does that have to be the sole focus of my posts?

Apology accepted. Didn’t feel good-natured. Or maybe I’m just oversensitive due to the bad season.

It’d be nice if the team had a good September.

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al Yellon on Sep 1, 2010 9:11 AM CDT up reply actions  

Cool.

Stuff like the wave (the ballpark experience stuff) doesn’t bother me and probably never will because I think a lot of those details are pretty meaningless. That’s a matter of opinion, obviously, and it’s also a matter of degree. For instance, I could care less about extra advertising in baseball, but I would be disgusted if corporate sponsorships started appearing on jerseys, NASCAR-style.

by elgato on Sep 1, 2010 9:23 AM CDT up reply actions  

True.

Certain things bother me more than others. For example, as you say, I don’t really care about the Toyota sign — I know others were outraged by it. To me, the difference is this: the wave or throwing balls back interferes directly with the game itself. An advertising sign doesn’t.

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al Yellon on Sep 1, 2010 9:33 AM CDT up reply actions  

tell that to tville's hat/shirt...;-)

Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."

by ballhawk on Sep 1, 2010 9:35 AM CDT up reply actions  

Well, I didn't say that sign was well placed...

… only that the concept of having such a sign doesn’t bother me.

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al Yellon on Sep 1, 2010 9:36 AM CDT up reply actions  

That Toyata sign isn't nearly as bad as I expected.

I already accept it as part of the atmosphere. If it would have been glowing neon like I thought maybe it would bug me, but as it is, I think it’s fine.

"Fasten those seatbelts!"-Pat Hughes

by katie casey on Sep 1, 2010 9:39 AM CDT up reply actions  

Funny thing about the Toyota sign

I find it completely unobtrusive and the sign fits well with the ballpark.

But I never hear anything about this – The non-stop PA system advertising prior to the start of the game and between innings. It is a constant barrage of advertising. You can hear the PA announce sucking in big glups of air as he does it.

The Toyota sign I can easily avoid. But the audio advertising is unavoidable. I am amazed at how any visual change to Wrigley is debated to death, yet the audio advertising is never considered.

"They come to see me strike out, hit a home run, or run into a fence. I try to accommodate them at least one way every game." - Gorman Thomas

by RiskyBusiness on Sep 1, 2010 11:10 AM CDT up reply actions  

The one that baffled me ...

was some mild outrage over players picking songs to play when they come to bat. I freaking love that — and even if I didn’t, I can’t imagine how it’s that offensive.

by elgato on Sep 1, 2010 9:39 AM CDT up reply actions  

LOL

Yes, it is. Again, I didn’t have a problem with those songs, either, because again — this did not interfere with the actual game itself. Five seconds of music? Who cares?

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al Yellon on Sep 1, 2010 9:42 AM CDT up reply actions  

Oh, the Luna song was horrible.

It really is a matter of degree, isn’t it?

by elgato on Sep 1, 2010 9:44 AM CDT up reply actions  

Depends, to me, again...

… on whether the things we’re talking about actually interfere with the game on the field.

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al Yellon on Sep 1, 2010 9:45 AM CDT up reply actions  

The grey area ...

is about what each person thinks affects the game. I don’t think guest conductors have any impact, and other than almost smacking Jacque Jones, I don’t think a ball thrown back has affected the Cubs.

The wave is another matter, I suppose.

by elgato on Sep 1, 2010 9:48 AM CDT up reply actions  

No.

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al Yellon on Sep 1, 2010 9:59 AM CDT up reply actions  

"offensive" might be a bit strong but I'm definitely an anti-song guy for the at-bats

and it’s not so much the concept of songs as it is the abruptness – 3 seconds of some (most likely) hiphop song blared really really loud and then nothing.

Unless it’s something iconic – opening keyboard riff from Baba OReilly for example – I just don’t see how 3 seconds of something gets the crowd or the player going. Compare that to when the Cubs take the field (Jump!, Beautiful Day, Boys are Back In Town, etc.) and it’s a completely different situation. At least then, you hear most of the song and you definitely get a chance to get into it.

Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."

by ballhawk on Sep 1, 2010 9:47 AM CDT up reply actions  

Some players say it's distracting.

Dusty made comments to this effect a few years ago.

by elgato on Sep 1, 2010 10:14 AM CDT up reply actions  

Really?

That’s interesting. I thought he just meant that it interferes with your ability to see the game.

"Fasten those seatbelts!"-Pat Hughes

by katie casey on Sep 1, 2010 10:17 AM CDT up reply actions  

It's possible that's what Al meant.

I don’t know. But I know Dusty said once that he wished the fans did the wave when the opposing team was hitting.

by elgato on Sep 1, 2010 10:18 AM CDT up reply actions  

I'd agree that it interferes with fans at the game

But he lumped it with the ball throw back which does interfere with the game (since it ends up on the field).

by Arbusto on Sep 1, 2010 10:19 AM CDT up reply actions  

The future...

…is in Rickett’s hands right now and we’ll see how it plays out this offseason.

If he feels the baseball organization is in good shape then I guess he will keep things status quo. If not, I would anticipate a change (or addition) to the baseball leadership (front office) this offseason.

"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel

by MPH73 on Sep 1, 2010 9:27 AM CDT up reply actions  

I bet Hendry gets this offseason.

If the Cubs are much-improved in May or June of next year, Hendry will keep his job. If not …

by elgato on Sep 1, 2010 9:29 AM CDT up reply actions  

The importance of a good start in 2011 cannot be minimized

… for many reasons.

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al Yellon on Sep 1, 2010 9:34 AM CDT up reply actions  

If Hendry tries to construct a team

that is geared to get to the playoffs in 2011, we’re in serious trouble. The only open position player spot is 1B. And essentially we have little flexibility in the rotation. By 2012 we’ll have only 3 large contracts left, Demp, Sori and Z. Rather than give multi year contracts to guys like Dunn, I’d much prefer giving our prospects a long look so the entire team can move forward with a strong youthful base.

We have a number of prospects at AA. If Hendry brings in veterans, we may never turn the page on this group of underperformers.

If a quality pitching start is 3 runs and 6 innings, then a quality hitting day is 1 for 4.

by tharr on Sep 1, 2010 12:07 PM CDT up reply actions  

If they have a slow start...

…in 2011, changing the GM will have little to no impact on the rest of the season.

A GM needs time to assemble the players he wants and to implement a philosophy which permeates through the organization. If you start 2011 with Hendry, you mine as well finish it with him.

My question is more along the lines of whether Ricketts will hire a senior baseball guy (this offseason) to oversee Hendry’s activities going into and through 2011.

"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel

by MPH73 on Sep 1, 2010 11:10 AM CDT up reply actions  

I'll be honest.

I’d rather talk about this than some fantasy trade proposals, read more Hill-hate or speculate if Girardi would really leave the Yankees.

"Fasten those seatbelts!"-Pat Hughes

by katie casey on Sep 1, 2010 9:18 AM CDT up reply actions  

That's fair.

But I feel exactly the opposite (though the Hill hate is pretty tired).

by elgato on Sep 1, 2010 9:25 AM CDT up reply actions  

Well....

… seriously, how many more Adam Dunn posts do we need?

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al Yellon on Sep 1, 2010 9:34 AM CDT up reply actions  

Heh. Honestly?

The Dunn story is REALLY interesting to me. If Hendry can get him for three, maybe four years, it could be an impressive signing. If Dunn doesn’t sign with the Cubs, and gets a five-year deal elsewhere, that will be incredibly telling — and I think it would show that the Cubs have learned their lesson after all of these bad LTCs.

If Dunn gets five or more years with the Cubs, then the franchise almost certainly hasn’t learned a thing in the past four years and desperation will prevail.

Finally, I think Dunn will be a blast to watch in Wrigley (if he signs). Now that he’s not an outfield butcher anymore, he’s the kind of player I really like watching.

by elgato on Sep 1, 2010 9:38 AM CDT up reply actions  

Sure, it's an interesting story.

But it’s not going to happen until at least November, if then.

I don’t think Dunn’s getting five years from anyone.

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al Yellon on Sep 1, 2010 9:43 AM CDT up reply actions  

I could live with three years and a vesting option.

Depending on the dollars, of course. Though I do agree with DCF that Dunn’s best years (presumably years 1 and 2 of the contract) will occur when the rest of the team is regrouping.

by elgato on Sep 1, 2010 9:45 AM CDT up reply actions  

Two years and a vesting option.

Dunn will be 31 in November. Four years with an option would bring him to 35. IMO, he is the type of player whose skills could deteriorate quickly.

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al Yellon on Sep 1, 2010 9:46 AM CDT up reply actions  

Here we go
he is the type of player whose skills could deteriorate quickly.

I can’t believe how …..oh, never mind. I give up. Let’s re-sign Nady or Derrek or sign that Kila Ka’aihue guy. I guess fans get so use to losing, that it doesn’t matter to them anymore.
Another 67-95 season next year will lengthen the FA line for 2012, I’m sure. Players will be fist fighting to sign up.
 And, it’ll keep me off the sofa alot more…like this year has.

Joe Girardi...2011 Chicago Cubs Manager...Book it!!
Adam Dunn..2011 Chicago Cubs First Baseman - 3 yrs/$42 mill with a club option for a 4th.

by Easy Ed on Sep 1, 2010 11:50 AM CDT up reply actions  

and frankly that's probably when we'd most need a player like Dunn

If the team does indeed go through some regrouping, there’s a potential for it to be a little painful, even if it’s done right. Somebody like Dunn in the lineup, hitting 40 HRs a year, breaking a few windows on Sheffield, motivating a certain ballhawk to finally get in shape, could certainly help to divert the casual fans’ interest away from the regrouping.

Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."

by ballhawk on Sep 1, 2010 9:53 AM CDT up reply actions  

would you move from left field to right if he was signed?

"Wait, are you saying I'm a sunshine-pumping, koolaid-drinking, Soriano-loving, rainbow-rising, unicorn-riding, double-clutching, Sweet Lou-backing, Hendry-supporting, hey hey whaddya saying, Cubs are going all the waying, glass is overflowing, Rothschild is all-knowing, Cubs fan? - ballhawk

by vonde6 on Sep 1, 2010 11:25 AM CDT up reply actions  

No, Ballhawk

would make Dunn hit right-handed…

"They come to see me strike out, hit a home run, or run into a fence. I try to accommodate them at least one way every game." - Gorman Thomas

by RiskyBusiness on Sep 1, 2010 11:50 AM CDT up reply actions  

I'd run back and forth a lot more than I do now, that's for sure.

Though if there was a strong South wind blowing, I’d probably stay in left-center and wait to catch the first opposite field HR to leave the park since the bleacher expansion. Dunn is definitely one of the few that could do it. (Howard’s another).

Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."

by ballhawk on Sep 1, 2010 5:10 PM CDT up reply actions  

Please Please Please

No more diversions. Let’s build a long term solution to our problem rather than piece meal another team based upon aging vets that ultimately delay the reorganization we need.

If a quality pitching start is 3 runs and 6 innings, then a quality hitting day is 1 for 4.

by tharr on Sep 1, 2010 12:19 PM CDT up reply actions  

So four years is OK

but five is a tragedy? Personally I’d like to see him go someplace else. No more tinkering with guys like Sori who seldom give us the opportunity to reorganize the team built around our prospects.

If a quality pitching start is 3 runs and 6 innings, then a quality hitting day is 1 for 4.

by tharr on Sep 1, 2010 12:12 PM CDT up reply actions  

I said 'maybe' four years.

It would depend on whether the fourth year was vesting, whether the dollars were low, etc.

by elgato on Sep 1, 2010 3:06 PM CDT up reply actions  

I hate that

Kpyie Hill is blocking Joe Girardi from being the Cubs next player-manager. ;)

"They come to see me strike out, hit a home run, or run into a fence. I try to accommodate them at least one way every game." - Gorman Thomas

by RiskyBusiness on Sep 1, 2010 12:20 PM CDT up reply actions  

Hey Al,

Where are your seats? I’ve got bleacher tickets for today, and if I can I’ll come say hi.

by leftycub on Sep 1, 2010 9:04 AM CDT via mobile reply actions  

section 301.

LF corner, closest to the foul pole, top row.

You won’t have any trouble finding me.

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al Yellon on Sep 1, 2010 9:11 AM CDT up reply actions  

So, Dempster had a bad game

Using the “Hey, Zambrano had a good game, we should keep him” logic, does this mean we now get rid of Dempster?

"It's all in the game, yo"

by Worf on Sep 1, 2010 9:06 AM CDT reply actions  

Right.

And I’d expect Dempster to bounce back quickly from this one bad start.

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al Yellon on Sep 1, 2010 9:11 AM CDT up reply actions  

Every pitcher has a bad start now and then.

Dempster has been a rock for almost three years. I’ll give him plenty of rope.

by elgato on Sep 1, 2010 9:28 AM CDT up reply actions  

I heard someone call him Dumpster

the other day which is something I hadn’t heard in years. Ugh

"Fasten those seatbelts!"-Pat Hughes

by katie casey on Sep 1, 2010 9:45 AM CDT up reply actions  

his bad start came down to

a few non strike calls early,,,kind of set the tone for how he had to pitch,,,,down the middle isnt the answer…Bob even mentioned it.

by cozmotaylor123 on Sep 1, 2010 9:49 AM CDT up reply actions  

Look, I agree

But to use your rope analogy, I think Zambrano has used his up

"It's all in the game, yo"

by Worf on Sep 1, 2010 9:52 AM CDT up reply actions  

And if we were able to dump him ...

for more than a 20 cents on the dollar return — your phrase from yesterday — I’d be cool with it. And the Cubs would be too, I think.

I kinda put Z and Hendry in the same camp right now. I’m not happy with either of them, they’ve both been given multiple chances and if I thought it were possible, I’d advocate dumping them.

But for different reasons, they’re part of the Cubs for the near future.

by elgato on Sep 1, 2010 9:54 AM CDT up reply actions  

He is under .500

for career – got to 100 losses (before 100 wins) yesterday

by doofus cubs guy on Sep 1, 2010 9:32 AM CDT reply actions  

Huh.

Strangely enough, his career record at bb-ref says he is 99-99.

So I don’t know where you found out he has 100 losses.

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al Yellon on Sep 1, 2010 9:35 AM CDT up reply actions  

So sorry - didn't think it

was updated so quickly – let me re-phrase ‘he is at .500 for career’

by doofus cubs guy on Sep 1, 2010 9:38 AM CDT up reply actions  

That is true.

He was 99-98 before yesterday. BB-ref is usually updated by around 9 am eastern time.

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al Yellon on Sep 1, 2010 9:43 AM CDT up reply actions  

I especially liked this part
Byrd is a guy with outstanding character who works hard and has never been in better shape. He will be a remarkable influence on his teammates, and the opportunity to play for a team with a rich tradition like the Cubs will not be lost on him. Whatever drop-off a move away from Arlington entails, consider all of these factors enough to counteract it. He’s a mature player, a true professional who got a late start but is now ready to take his game to a new level into his mid-30’s.

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al Yellon on Sep 1, 2010 9:37 AM CDT up reply actions  

I liked how the writer pretty much says ...

that statistical projections can be wrong. The Byrd signing could turn out to be Hendry’s best (in the company of DeRosa and Lilly).

Not to go all Dusty on everybody, but I’m starting to think that there’s currently an overemphasis on certain statistical measures.

by elgato on Sep 1, 2010 9:43 AM CDT up reply actions  

There is no doubt...

… that statistical analysis and advanced metrics should be part of deciding who should be on a team. However, other factors go into putting together a good clubhouse, given that these men spend the better part of eight months together, most of the day, every day.

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al Yellon on Sep 1, 2010 9:44 AM CDT up reply actions  

Totally agree.

But I also think that statistical analysis is, well, somewhat off or not quite where we need it to be. Setting aside clubhouse issues, a guy like MB was clearly overvalued in the offseason of 2008-09 — and not just by Jim Hendry.

by elgato on Sep 1, 2010 9:47 AM CDT up reply actions  

Sigh.

It’s not specifically “Kevin Millar” the Cubs need. But the clubhouse needs a guy LIKE that.

Who that is, I have no idea.

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al Yellon on Sep 1, 2010 9:59 AM CDT up reply actions  

I do.

His name is Marlon Byrd.

by elgato on Sep 1, 2010 10:19 AM CDT up reply actions  

I was just kidding around.

I agree someone like that is needed…..I think Kenny Lofton was that for the 03 Cubs

by cozmotaylor123 on Sep 1, 2010 10:19 AM CDT up reply actions  

I'm not advocating for clubhouse guys above all talent and numbers.

My point is that I think many of the statistical measurements used right now need improvement. And MB’s non-jackass performance comes to mind …

It seems like there were many instances last year where Bradley would come up with a man on third and fewer than two outs. Bradley (miscast by the Cubs as a middle-order bat) could have scored a run by either hitting a ball to the right side (which shouldn’t be difficult for a lefty) or by hitting a long flyball. This might be anecdotal, but he almost always seemed to take a walk — which didn’t hurt his numbers, but didn’t really get the job done.

It’s that kind of situation, I think, which isn’t properly shown in the more common statistical figures. And I think it allows a lot of people to overvalue guys like Bradley.

by elgato on Sep 1, 2010 10:04 AM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

I have seen way too many statheads justify acquiring players because of splits and statlines instead of looking at the player and factoring in his personality as well. that’s how most saw the (name redacted) deal. the major supporters looked at how he hit in Texas and his career numbers he put up. I looked at 9 teams in 9 years with some legendary on field meltdowns. I never figured in his high walk totals would be more of a hinderance than a help. a lot of those same statheads claimed that because GM wundekind Theo Epstein said that players who don’t make outs are very valuable, (name redacted) is valuable because he walks and doesn’t get out. never mind he also doesn’t drive in runs. maybe that’s why there are no major league teams made up of players 4 feet and shorter, because there is a major flaw in that logic reasonable people could recognize. outs aren’t bad. bad outs are bad, but I can’t see anything wrong with sac flys, sac hunts, or outs that advanced the runner.

looking at what any player’s statline should be A factor in signing a player, not THE factor most want it to be. like for me signing Adam Dunn would be okay only if it is an acknowledgement that we wont be good the next few years. his defense scares me. he can cream the ball but he may allow as many if not more runs on the field. plus he’s on the wrong side of 30 and not likely to improve his defense much.

  • I’m still going to use (name redacted). i think its funny and should be his official bcb nickname.

by jcarti01 on Sep 1, 2010 1:24 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions   1 recs

I don't really agree with this

As it pertains to Byrd, the projection systems really weren’t very far off. Most of them had Byrd as an RC+ 110-115 player, and he has only been slightly better at +119.

Sure, there are things that the projection systems can’t take into account such as MB taking to Chicago like oil to water, but as far as predicting what players will do in the future, they do a pretty good job. In fact, I think most of the people on this site who hated the Byrd deal most weren’t really “stats guys.”

by JSB on Sep 1, 2010 10:00 AM CDT via mobile up reply actions  

See my post above.

Feel free to rip it to shreds, because I haven’t done a ton of research on it. But I think stats fail to consider things BESIDES MB taking to Chicago like oil and water.

by elgato on Sep 1, 2010 10:05 AM CDT up reply actions  

I don't really understand what you are getting at

Do stats always predict the future accurately? No. Can we improve on projections systems? Of course. But they still are the most accurate method of predicting future performance. Most of the time they do a pretty good job. What things do stats fail to consider?

by JSB on Sep 1, 2010 12:09 PM CDT up reply actions  

The stats accurately measure what they're supposed to measure.

Total on-base, slugging, etc. And they do a good job. I’m saying that stats don’t tell the whole story, and the rest of the story isn’t just about personality issues.

In MB’s case, he would get points for a good at-bat (a walk). But his OBP would suffer if he drove a runner home with a groundout (which he rarely did), and even a sac fly (which he rarely did) would look the same as a walk for OBP.

That doesn’t make Milton a bad player, and it doesn’t make him an unproductive one. But if a player routinely walks when his task is to drive runners in …

by elgato on Sep 1, 2010 3:12 PM CDT up reply actions  

Nice to see someone admit they were wrong

Marlon Byrd really has been a great addition.

by JSB on Sep 1, 2010 9:49 AM CDT via mobile up reply actions  

Wow. Tempers have been hot in the recaps this week...

Chill out. Root for the Twins.

But yeah, I mulled about going to the game last night. Glad I didn’t. I also noticed that I hadn’t bought a single Cubs ticket, shirt, etc. for the first time since 2002. My contribution is infinitesimal in the grand scheme for the team, but I did the only thing within my power to let management know my displeasure.

Writing quality posts since 1931.

by chilango2 on Sep 1, 2010 10:13 AM CDT reply actions  

I'm with you...

Although, I think you and I should go to the last home game this year, and give this dreadful season a proper sendoff.

by Damen Jackson on Sep 1, 2010 11:20 AM CDT up reply actions  

You watch it

Aroldis Chapman threw a 103 mph pitch last night; that’s very impressive, and has caused ESPN to typically woo over his performance. I guarantee you, with the style of pitching Chapman has, he will ultimately have to have some kind of elbow or shoulder surgery like Strasburg.

Only difference I like is that the Reds decided to bring him up as a relief pitcher initially. I think this is how Strasburg should have been brought up. Ease the pitcher into the starting role in the ML by having him start off as a reliever.

Viva la Cubs Révolution!!!

by Chanman25 on Sep 1, 2010 10:23 AM CDT reply actions  

Not bad

Being able to add an arm like that to the bullpen right before a push for (and into) the playoffs.

"Wait, are you saying I'm a sunshine-pumping, koolaid-drinking, Soriano-loving, rainbow-rising, unicorn-riding, double-clutching, Sweet Lou-backing, Hendry-supporting, hey hey whaddya saying, Cubs are going all the waying, glass is overflowing, Rothschild is all-knowing, Cubs fan? - ballhawk

by vonde6 on Sep 1, 2010 11:38 AM CDT up reply actions  

Yeah, I mean I'm admitting he's good

but that they should be cautious with him…

Viva la Cubs Révolution!!!

by Chanman25 on Sep 1, 2010 12:10 PM CDT up reply actions  

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