Does Bleed Cubbie Blue overrate the Cubs future?
by JSB on Sep 2, 2010 4:02 PM CDT
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I have been reading a lot of posts raving about all the young talent in the Cubs farm system, and how the Cubs have the foundation in place to build a World Series contender for 2012 and beyond through a combination of free agency and the farm system. I am not nearly as optimistic. On free agents, there simply aren't that many elite free agents going on the market anymore. And free agency remains a risky and expensive way to build a contender. On the farm system, Jim Callis recently tweeted that he likely will have the Cubs farm system outside the top 10.The teams that have recently built contenders through the farm system (Rays, Reds, Twins and Rangers) were consistently ranked in the top 5.
Starlin Castro is great. No denying that.Geo Soto is also really solid. Beyond that though, Tyler Colvin is still a 4th OF to me. He will need to make substantial leap forward in terms of his plate approach to have a corner OF bat on a contending team. Other than that, no other position players currently on the MLB team currently looks like he will be an impact player in 2012. And we are still stuck with Soriano through 2014. As far as pitchers go, Gorz and Wells are nice back-of-the-rotation innings eaters. Marmol and Marshall are good bullpen pieces. Among the older guys, we will still have Demp and Z in 2012. Neither are likely to be any better than they are now, and probably will be worse.
In the minors, Brett Jackson looks like he is a legitimate MLB starter. Upside is probably Grady Sizemore, which is a very nice upside. But, beyond him I can't say I am in love with the Cubs system, especially in terms of high-upside positional players. Josh Vitters has the highest upside of the remaining position prospects, but he is still a boom-or-bust type player and has about an equal chance of washing out as of becoming a legitimate MLB-caliber 3B. Other than that, I don't see anything to be happy about. Kyler Burke has taken a huge step back, Junior Lake is still a project, Hak-Ju Lee is a long way away and his bat might never be MLB caliber. Ryan Flaherty, D.J. LeMahiue, Logan Watkins etc. don't look like they will hit enough to be starters. Jae Hoon-Ha has an even worse BB rate than Vitters. The draft this year only produced one high upside positional prospect: Reggie Golden. Golden is years away and has high bust potential.
As far as pitching goes, I like the depth; but too many of the top options look like middle-of-the-rotation or bullpen pitchers. Andrew Cashner: still needs to develop secondary pitches and is several seasons away from having the requisite innings-load to be a starter. Barring a change in heart by the Cubs he looks to be a bullpen option for the foreseeable future. Jay Jackson: regressed mightily this season in AAA. Chris Carpenter: probably a middle-of-the rotation option. Chris Archer: needs to do some serious work on his command. His FIP indicates that a large part of his success this year could be attributed to luck. Trey McNutt: still very far away. None of these pitchers are currently projected as number 1s.
In short, I still think the Cubs are going to have to heavily rely on free agency if they want to be World Series contenders between now and 2013. I am not even confident they will be the best team in their division in 2012. That doesn't even include the usual contenders such as the Red Sox, Yankees and Phillies or teams like the Braves, Nationals, Rangers, Rays and A's that all look like they have the foundations to be serious contenders in the future. I think World Series contention anytime in the next 3 years is unlikely.
In my opinion, even within the division, in terms of probability of future success, the Cubs main competitors are looking better. I expect to hear a lot of disagreement in response, so fire away.
Reds:
I think the Reds should have the best combination of young talent and mature talent for the next 2-3 years in the division. They seem to have the strongest organization moving forward.
Older MLB talent: Brandon Phillips (signed through 2012); Scott Rolen (signed through 2012); Francisco Cordero (signed through 2012)
Young MLB talent: Joey Votto, Jay Bruce, Drew Stubbs, Chris Heisey, Ryan Hanigan, Edinson Volquez, Johnny Cueto, Homer Bailey, Trevor Wood, Mike Leake, Aroldis Chapman
Minors: Yonder Alonso, Todd Frazier, Yasmani Grandal (recent draftee)
Cardinals have clearly decided to go with a scrubs-and-stars approach. It hasn't worked this year, but with 4 players likely to be at 6 WAR and above, along with 3 intriguing younger players; the Cardinals should also be strong at least through 2012. It should be noted although they had a nice draft, their farm system is considered to be relatively weak.
Older MLB talent: Albert Pujols (through 2011 but likely to re-sign); Matt Holliday (through 2014); Chris Carpenter (option through 2012); AdamWainwright (option through 2012)
Young MLB talent: Colby Rasmus, David Freese, Jaime Garcia, Jason Motte, John Jay
Minor league talent (admittedly fairly weak): Shelby MIller, Darryl Jones
Recent draft class: Zach Cox, Tyrell Jenkins, Seth Blair
Pirates: Before you laugh, they are stockpiling young talent. I don't see them as contenders anytime soon, but threw them in here just as a demonstration of how other teams have young talent similar to the Cubs. The fact that they are spending more than the Cubs in the draft right now should be alarming.
Young MLB talent: Andrew McCutcheon, Jose Tabata, Pedro Alvarez, Brad Lincoln
Minor League Talent: Tony Sanchez, Zack Von Rosenburg, Tim Alderson
Recent Draft: probably got the 2 highest-upside arms in the draft in Jameson Taillie and Stetson Allie.
I am not going to bother with the Brewers or the Astros, as I think both of those organizations are in bad shape. But, let me again emphasize that this is just the Cubs division. When we talk about the Cubs as World Series contenders, that includes teams outside the division. I simply don't see a World Series in Wrigley between now and 2013. Especially with the tag-team of Kenney and Hendry leading the charge.
This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of SB Nation or Al Yellon, managing editor (unless it's a FanPost posted by Al). FanPost opinions are valued expressions of opinion by passionate and knowledgeable baseball fans.
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I don’t think anyone has said the farm system is great. I was saying with the combination of a good draft pick and money off the books….this team should be able to compete in a couple of years. We have to spend big on the draft this year.
by Bad Midget on Sep 2, 2010 4:26 PM CDT reply actions 1 recs
Couple quick comments
1. I can’t disagree with the general gist of it because … well I’ve been arguing that we should be looking forwards to 2013. 2013 seems like the appropriate year, because at that point, a ton of money will have come off, and hopefully, some youngsters will have developed. So on that note, I agree. I think there’s a slim possibility, if a lot of things go right, that we could perhaps make a playoff push in 2012, but I think it’s a bit farfetched to think that we can push for the playoffs in 2011 without almost everything going right for us. The money situation, the contracts, the age, it doesn’t bode well for the next 2 years.
2. Not being in the top 10 is something that’s bothersome, but not troubling because Castro and Cashner (along with Colvin) graduated, and few people imagined both would graduate at the beginning of the year. With those two guys, this would’ve been a solid top 10 system, so thus, I’m not that concerned about where we rank as a system. Overall, it’s been a solid year in the system, but some of the notes you make are also fair points – the system does lack in impact bats, particularly as it relates to power bats) and it doesn’t really have anyone that profiles as a “1”, outside of Cashner (btw, the numbers on Cashner suggest he’s having problems with his fastball out of the pen.)
If there is something that should bother folks about the system, it is that the low levels don’t look good at all. Certainly, these things go in cycle, and the top talent moves forward into upper levels. We’ve certainly had a lot of draftees from the 08/09 classes move relatively fast. That said, Peoria looks quite pedestrian (Lee has a fringy bat, Cerda does as well and he needs to be able to play 2nd, Watkins K rate is troubling, the pitching staff is interesting but not overly so). Boise doesn’t have much that screams “look at this” and AZL is only interesting due to imagination.
I am mildly worried about long term commitments this winter. The organization should, whether or not the target year is now or 5 years from now, try to get better each year, but they cannot afford to burden the payroll just as things are starting to clear.
oh
I don’t think the Brewers are in that bad shape. They have some things to sort out, but with Lawrie and several interesting arms coming up, they may be able to right the ship sooner than later. Ken Macha is, by most accounts, going to fired by Attanasio, and I think that helps (never been a big Macha guy).
Interesting take on the Brewers
What would your ranking be of the organizations in the division going forward (mixing both MLB and MiLB talent)?
by JSB on Sep 2, 2010 4:36 PM CDT up reply actions
i haven't really pondered mixing MLB/MiLB
and would need to look at the contracts to make that determination. In terms of ranking the systems, purely off the top, I’d probably go something like
1. Pirates – pure upside nod, but with Taillion, Allie, and Heredia added, that’s just a lot of high upside pitching talent.
2. Reds – Chapman is eligible, so there’s a case for the Reds being first.
3. Cubs
4. Brewers
5. Cardinals
6. Astros
Not being in the top 10
I agree with you, that with Cashner, Castro we would be in the Top 10. But, don’t the best systems have guys graduate and still stay in the Top 10? As you noted, I think there is just not enough high-end depth top-to-bottom in the Cubs system right now. We haven’t had any position players step forward this year at the lower level and replace a Castro as a high-end prospect.
by JSB on Sep 2, 2010 4:38 PM CDT up reply actions
Have you not heard some of us saying this organization is going to suck until 2013-2014 at the earliest?
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Sep 2, 2010 5:30 PM CDT reply actions
Key word: "some"
The 2011 and 2012 crowd far outnumber the rest. And I have yet to see a full length post making that argument.
by JSB on Sep 2, 2010 5:39 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
here is my thinking
if everyone has an average year we should be around .500 (provided we add a decent 1b and a decent ENGAGED manager) – get 1 or 2 guys to have a career year and that puts us 85-90 wins if the Reds have an injury or two and the Cards slip again we should be able to think about contending…granted, we can sustain 0 injuries and ALOT of things have to go perfect in order for that to happen
what I would rather see is a commitment to getting young guys who are still not MLB proven for the next couple of years and hope that we can get a couple steals (ala Ramirez and Lee) and let Lee and Jackson work their way up and hopefully 2013 can be when we start a nice 5 year stretch of being the top dog in the NL Central every year guarranteed…
While Hendry has had his fair share of screwups in the past I do have 100% faith in him to trade away our unusables and get the most possible out of them and for that reason alone I like him being our GM through next year.
I Love Larry - Brick are you looking at random things around the room and saying that you love them - I Love Larry
Currently 34,839 on the Season Ticket Wait List - Expected age of being #0: 119
Concerning Archer and McNutt
who says they won’t be a #1? I am so sick of the debate of who is a #1 or a #2, we don’t know that until they actually get called up.
The fact of the matter is, Archer and McNutt have pitched like #1s and until proven otherwise, we shouldn’t assume that they can’t ever maintain the success that they are having.
Maybe next year is finally our year.
#1 Semantics
When pitchers prospects are evaluated as “potential #1” prospects, it means those pitchers have a good likelihood of being among the top pitchers in baseball over the course of their careers. That designation is enormously rare with good reason; it’s incredibly difficult to find a pitcher who not only has ace quality stuff, but also can harness that stuff deep into games and over the course of a season. There are very few pitchers who fit that bill.
While I’m happy for McNutt and Archer and the success they have had over this season, the fact of the matter is that both have struggled and have their share of red flags. McNutt needs work on his curve and change, plus he’s faltered in AA. Archer supposedly has better stuff (namely breaking pitch), but his history of control problems and his alarming number of BBs in AA give me pause.
They’re both Top 5 prospects in the organization and probably Top 100 prospects in baseball, but their potential is squarely in the #2/#3 range.
by Outshined_One on Sep 3, 2010 12:08 AM CDT up reply actions
I disagree with your take on their potential.
They’re still both very young, and by all accounts I have heard ceilings of “low #1 to high upside #2 pitchers” for both Archer and McNutt.
Do they have things to work on? Of course they do, or they wouldn’t be in the minors.
Guys with true #1 upside...
are usually obvious, hailed for the upside from the start, somewhat more polished than most with similar arms, and generally just given a different kind of buzz.
It’s possible that McNutt and Archer may have something extra than hasn’t shown up yet or the scouts are missing, but history says it’s unlikely.
There’s absolutely nothing wrong with not having ace upside. I think we’ll add someone like that in next year’s draft anyway…Matt Purke ftw.
Well that is what discussing minor leaguers is all about
Why bother even discussing minor leaguers if you don’t discuss their potential. You may disagree on whether they have #1 or #2 potential but if you don’t want to see that discussion, skip the minor league discussions.
John Grabow: $4.8 million in 2011.
One question I have is the basis for the slotting
Command is certainly and issue, but do pitchers need to have 95+ mph fastballs to be a “potential #1?” And by that standard, Maddux and Glavine were never “#1” caliber, but there are 650+ major league victories that would argue otherwise.
I wonder how well scouting measures baseball intelligence – the ability to adapt and get the best out of the physical gifts you have.
Prospecting Pitchers
A few things…
-There are plenty of examples of guys with modest stuff succeeding in the majors. Cripes, Jamie Moyer will probably pitch until he’s dead. However, it is much easier for a pitching prospect to succeed in the majors if he has great stuff. Even if those guys don’t get the “best” out of their physical gifts, they would still be much better than those guys with mediocre stuff getting the most out of their gifts. Put bluntly, if you had a team, which one would make your team better, someone like A-Rod giving 80% or someone like David Eckstein giving 100%? Furthermore, there are pitchers with extraordinary talent who get the most out of their gifts. That’s what makes guys like Strasburg so special.
You’re more likely to get great production out of someone like Strasburg than you would with, say, someone like Chris Rusin.
-Maddux and Glavine were both second round selections (in the same draft!). As memory serves me, Glavine fell in that draft because there were concerns he wanted to play hockey (the LA Kings had drafted him in the fourth round of the NHL Draft); he likely would have been a first rounder otherwise. Regardless, while neither guy sported a 95+ mph fastball, both were highly regarded guys. They had great acumen and very good stuff. I don’t remember either one being considered a future #1, but it would be disingenuous to argue that they came out of nowhere, either.
by Outshined_One on Sep 6, 2010 3:15 PM CDT up reply actions
Along with radar readings...
…scouts should look at how hitters react to pitchers as well.
I have posted this before, but I think it is something that gets easily forgotten; one guy who throws 90 mph may have a more effective fastball than someone who throws 95 mph. One of the most important, is how the ball comes out of a guys hand and how easy or difficult it is to pick up. For a hitter, a guy that is difficult to pick up will seem like 95+, when they are only hitting 90 on the gun. The same is true for a guy throwing 97, but you can pick up the ball right out of his finger tips.
Prior was an excellent example of this. When he was healthy, his fastball was 92-93 for the most part. If you watched hitters reaction, it seemed like he was throwing 100 mph. His ball had late jump (French for hard to pick up) and he had a good secondary pitch to keep guys off balance, and hitters never could really get comfortable with him.
The most important thing any pitcher can do is to mess with a hitters timing, and the best way to do that is to have more than one pitch coming from the same arm motion and slot. This is what seperates the the men from the boys, regardless of radar readings.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
by MPH73 on Sep 7, 2010 9:20 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
I can have my own input,
and opinion on starting pitching ceiling. I disagree with the assessments sometimes, that’s all.
Maybe next year is finally our year.
I don't agree...FAs are the need...
we have Soriano, Fukudome, A-Ram, Zambrano, Dempster and Byrd, ALL signed through next year. We need to take one last run at this thing with those guys. Why waste another year? So, we sit back for the next 3 or 4 years losing 90 games a year? Sounds fun…I’m in. Right now tho, since both my parents(Cubs’ fans) have passed on, I need to run over to my older brother’s house and punch him in the throat for allowing me to grow up a Cubs’ fan.
Joe Girardi...2011 Chicago Cubs Manager...Book it!!
Adam Dunn..2011 Chicago Cubs First Baseman - 3 yrs/$42 mill with a club option for a 4th.
Wish I shared your optimism……unfortunately the players you listed have a better chance of getting you right where you are now, not to the playoffs.
by Comfortably Numb on Sep 2, 2010 6:01 PM CDT up reply actions
You learn to be optimistic cheering this team on...
That’s $80,000,000, between a half a dozen guys, that’s going to be ON the books next year, and they’re NOT suppose to make an effort to win by adding a couple more significant players? It’s mind boggling. If that’s the case, then why not just release them all and bring up all the youngsters and give them on the fly training? That’s just as absurd as not trying to improve on a 90+ loss season with a payroll of that size.
And the other thing is this…Jim Hendry has this club in this predicament and yet he’s STILL gonna be the guy calling the shots? We can wait all we want. 2013. 2014. As long as THAT man is sitting in THAT chair this team will fail. He had his shot with this team…had ‘em right to the brink of success. A good, competent GM would have took ’em over the top. Didn’t happen. Next.
Joe Girardi...2011 Chicago Cubs Manager...Book it!!
Adam Dunn..2011 Chicago Cubs First Baseman - 3 yrs/$42 mill with a club option for a 4th.
He had his shot with this team…had ‘em right to the brink of success. A good, competent GM would have took ’em over the top.
So a good GM would have won playoff games in 2008 after building a 97-win team? Do tell how that would have happened.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
Al, he says a lot of things that make no sense
and his sig line are two of them.
Chronologically inept since 2060
"I could be writing this crap!" -- Crow T. Robot
Me: Q: I can run but not walk. Wherever I go, thought follows close behind. What am I?
Wrigster A: Theriot
Ah...one of the "let's sit tight and wait and see" guys, eh?
What part of the sig line is confusing you? Makes perfect sense to me. Just sound it out.
Joe Girardi...2011 Chicago Cubs Manager...Book it!!
Adam Dunn..2011 Chicago Cubs First Baseman - 3 yrs/$42 mill with a club option for a 4th.
well
1. Cashman has made it known he will offer Giaradi whatever is needed, and that he wont let him go. Girardi will not be Cubs Mgr next season
2. Dunn at $14m average, for 3 plus an option, you really do love the Dave Kingman Cubs era enough to want to repeat it.
Another poster made a great comment, you might have watched a lot of games, but you dont understand baseball it seems
Chronologically inept since 2060
"I could be writing this crap!" -- Crow T. Robot
Me: Q: I can run but not walk. Wherever I go, thought follows close behind. What am I?
Wrigster A: Theriot
Oh...Cashman OWNS Girardi? Damn, I never realized that.
What is it I seem to NOT understand? I remember hearing these words spoken by Herm Edwards over and over again…“You play to WIN the game”. Not sit back and piss away all that money and not even make an effort.
you really do love the Dave Kingman Cubs era enough to want to repeat it.
And you really love the 70 win seasons enough to wanna repeat them? Well, sit back, because, it appears that you just might get your wish.
Joe Girardi...2011 Chicago Cubs Manager...Book it!!
Adam Dunn..2011 Chicago Cubs First Baseman - 3 yrs/$42 mill with a club option for a 4th.
you just said why you are wrong about both moved
You play to WIN the game
so leaving the Yankees for the Cubs would be the opposite of that. And dont give me the loyalty to Chicago or Cubs, and his love for the Cubs bull, since that is the same team that let him be fted away in the expansion, and took Lou over him. That is how it is in sports, you grow up cheering a team, but they dont show you the same love once you put on the uniform as you did for them as a kid.
You play to WIN the game
so you over pay for a player who is a bad fielder, will be in decline sooner rather than later, and strikes out more times than we play games, who has a swing rate that is worse than Soriano, and will be sure to remove and flexability that Hendry would need.
Do you understand that there is not an infinate budget for the Cubs and that their salaries are handcuffed by payments being made to purchase the team still, while attendance is down at the same time? Giving Dunn a contract works agaisnt the Cubs more than it helps them. And honestly if you believe that the Cubs are one Dunn away from competing for the WS you truly are crazy
Chronologically inept since 2060
"I could be writing this crap!" -- Crow T. Robot
Me: Q: I can run but not walk. Wherever I go, thought follows close behind. What am I?
Wrigster A: Theriot
let him be drafted
Chronologically inept since 2060
"I could be writing this crap!" -- Crow T. Robot
Me: Q: I can run but not walk. Wherever I go, thought follows close behind. What am I?
Wrigster A: Theriot
remove any flexability
Chronologically inept since 2060
"I could be writing this crap!" -- Crow T. Robot
Me: Q: I can run but not walk. Wherever I go, thought follows close behind. What am I?
Wrigster A: Theriot
Hey, coach, do you ever play to lose the game?
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heres the thing
the Cubs are in bad straits right now…there is ALOT of money tied up with a few people and we really need to work on building our farm system. So, this is similiar to your household, you can either tighten your belt for a couple of years and work that bad stuff (credit card debt lets say) out of the system by NOT buying that new BMW and instead going with a used Ford and just realizing that the next 2-3 years will be tough but when all is said and done you will have laid the foundation properly to have a successful 10-20-30 years by getting rid of the bad contracts and working on player development.
Quite frankly, unless you want to handcuff the Cubs for the next 20 years by spending tons of money this offseason you take your Chemo and tough through it to work the cancer out of the system.
I Love Larry - Brick are you looking at random things around the room and saying that you love them - I Love Larry
Currently 34,839 on the Season Ticket Wait List - Expected age of being #0: 119
I realize you're a Hendry guy, Al, but, I was refering to the 2 years following 2008.
The team should have gotten better, but, it didn’t…and that IS on Hendry. He gets an F. And an F, in a multi-million dollar business, should mean termination and NOT “Nice try, but here, give it another whirl”.
If the organization wants to stand pat for the next couple years and wait for certain contracts to come off the books, and rebuild along the way, then Hendry’s contract should come off the books first…immediately, if not sooner. It won’t. He remains at the helm and there’s an iceberg dead ahead.
I think you know who I’d like to see manage, and yeah, you’re probably right that he won’t leave, but, I think Hendry is gonna screw this manager thing up…I really do. It should be no harder than offering it to Girardi, and if he says no, then it’s Sandberg’s. Cut and dried.
Joe Girardi...2011 Chicago Cubs Manager...Book it!!
Adam Dunn..2011 Chicago Cubs First Baseman - 3 yrs/$42 mill with a club option for a 4th.
like or dislike Hendry
he made moves, trying to improve, while the team was being sold, was in bankruptcy for a short stint, and with an owner (Zell) who was spending others money (i still believe the amount of back loading was more Zell’s call than Hendry’s, while Zell wanted to win now and let someone else pay for it). Am i saying he is off the hook, no, but he has been the best GM in out lifetime, and deserves credit for what he has done well. I believe this season was a wash, not much he could do while the team was being sold and in bankruptcy, and next season should be his make or break season.
Chronologically inept since 2060
"I could be writing this crap!" -- Crow T. Robot
Me: Q: I can run but not walk. Wherever I go, thought follows close behind. What am I?
Wrigster A: Theriot
This team has a 150 million dollar payroll
And Jim Hendry was the man calling the shots. This season is not a wash. It is a disaster, and he is the man who is most responsible for it.
A wash?
That is pretty generous. I don’t see how the sale or bankruptcy is an excuse. He wasn’t running around with a shoestring budget.
by JSB on Sep 3, 2010 2:05 AM CDT up reply actions
No, it was the opposite.
He was given a lot of money to spend and Zell expected it to be spent, most likely unwisely.
I’m of the same opinion of C-T, I think that Zell’s main focus was to drive up the value of the Cubs be increasing payroll while backloading deals to make sure he didn’t have to pay for much of it.
Sorry but that makes no sense
Zell gave Hendry lots of money to spend with the expectation that Hendry would spend it unwisely? If that is the case then Zell must have known that Hendry was a bad GM.
I agree with you that Zell wanted to drive up the value of the Cubs but implying that it then gave Hendry license to make stupid deals makes no sense to me.
John Grabow: $4.8 million in 2011.
The conspiracy theory around here, apparently....
…is that Zell and the Tribune told Hendry “you’re gonna spend this $300 million dollars, GD it! And we’re going to tell you who to spend it on! And it’s not going to be the people you would prefer to sign! And you’re going to publicly defend all of these moves, which you privately disagree with!”
There are about 5 leaps of logic in this theory that make no sense whatsoever. Why would Hendry intentionally destroy his own career in order to remain a puppet GM?
The obvious explanation is that Trib Tower told Hendry that, due to 2006’s miserable failure and the need to drive revenues in anticipation of selling, he’d have carte blanche to remake the team as he saw fit. And he proceeded to do so.
MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown
And that miserable failure in 2006 was his fault as well
The Cubs are giving him a third chance to dig himself out of the cellar.
Couldn't agree more...
…I can’t recall any baseball man being more teflon than Jim Hendry:
The Trib made him do it
Bad luck with injuries
Baker wanted those players
Piniella wanted those players
When will any accountability ever stick to this guy?
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
You didn't read his comment.
Or you were replying to the wrong person. But either way Hendry has been responsible for all these decisions before and after this season so there shouldn’t be any excuses taken for his performance as GM. He’s assembled a mess.
Starlin Castro singles on a pop up to catcher Jason LaRue.
Ryan Theriot scores. Two out -Gameday 7/23/10
by Sandberg's evil twin on Sep 3, 2010 1:45 PM CDT up reply actions
Not much he could do these past two years?
Let’s see…..
Bradley for an idiotic 3 years.
Grabow for a mind numbing $4.8 million in 2011.
Trading Pie for Heilman and then signing the incredibly useless Joey Gathright.
Heading into 2009 without a backup 3rd baseman and 2010 with a completely unproven bullpen.
Aaron Miles for a puzzling 2 years.
That is enough for me. I’m not saying he is the worse GM ever but a fresh approach is needed.
John Grabow: $4.8 million in 2011.
where did I say two?
i said
I believe this season was a wash
so please, if you wish to try and rip into what i say, do so based on what i actually do say
Chronologically inept since 2060
"I could be writing this crap!" -- Crow T. Robot
Me: Q: I can run but not walk. Wherever I go, thought follows close behind. What am I?
Wrigster A: Theriot
What?
You mention Zell and the backloaded signings? When did that happen? It sure wasn’t this year. That was last year so last year and this year make for two years.
John Grabow: $4.8 million in 2011.
this season i said was a wash IMHO
due to the sale of the team, the bankruptcy filing, you should have read what I said for what i said, not for what you wanted it to say
i also said that hendry is not off the hook but he deserves some credit and next season is make or break for him
Chronologically inept since 2060
"I could be writing this crap!" -- Crow T. Robot
Me: Q: I can run but not walk. Wherever I go, thought follows close behind. What am I?
Wrigster A: Theriot
He made moves that were obviously stupid, saved zero money, and failed exactly as widely predicted.
It would be difficult for a GM to do worse intentionally than Hendry has done since the LAD playoff series. A Cardinals sabateur GM could not have failed more spectacularly.
The amount of people who are willing to blame Zell for the day-to-day utter failings of Jim Hendry would normally be hilarious, but after all these years it’s more sad, like watching an abused spouse rationalize their abuser’s behavior.
Jim Hendry is the General Manager of the Chicago Cubs. If the team was being run into the ground over his objection, he had a duty to make those objections known, or to resign. Instead, he (hypothetically) signed off on moves he knew to be counterproductive.
Or, applying Occam’s Razor, he, being the GM, was responsible and agreed with the things he very publicly did.
MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown
Well you and I agree on Hendry of course.
I don’t know that I would go as far as you do here but I will say that Hendry defenders miss he is the thread behind all the bad moves supposedly forced upon him. And because of that we need someone else who has a chance of doing a better job. Continuing to see him failing at the job then blaming the owner and manager instead is very irrational thinking to me.
Starlin Castro singles on a pop up to catcher Jason LaRue.
Ryan Theriot scores. Two out -Gameday 7/23/10
by Sandberg's evil twin on Sep 3, 2010 6:54 PM CDT up reply actions
Good GM's...
…build an a strong enough organization to eliminate the bad down years like the Cubs have had in between playoff appearances. When you have ample resources to spend, there is no reason you can’t be competitive virtually every year like you see with several other teams that use their resources much better than the Cubs have.
When you have a strong base, and you make good decisions, the down years are few and far between and not near as bad as what the Cubs have experienced.
This phenomenon is on the organization, not on the managers.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
Y'know, I like all those players in one way or another...
…but that’s really not a core I’d feel confident contending with.
Contributing Editor, SB Nation Chicago. Please follow us on Twitter!
Most fans...
…struggle to be objective about their team. The emotional side of being a fan can seriously jade your view of what is going on.
IMO, I just don’t think many folks dig deep enough and get at the core of why the Cubs have had so many bad years (05,06,09 &10) despite the resources they have.
Most discussion is revolved around “fire the manager”, or “go out and get this FA”, or “make this trade” and everything will be dandy. That’s probably because most people want to think there is a simple solution to getting to the promised land, when the true barrier is much deeper than that.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
by MPH73 on Sep 2, 2010 5:57 PM CDT reply actions 5 recs
Rec'd as well.
It is the nature of a blog I suppose but I’ve been hearing so much play Colvin/Baker/Fuld/Fonty/Better line up all year so long I’ve been numb to it. Of course a better manager this season could have helped but all those years you mentioned had an underlying cause and playing your favorite player or getting a new manager does not solve your problems. Changing the architect is needed.
Starlin Castro singles on a pop up to catcher Jason LaRue.
Ryan Theriot scores. Two out -Gameday 7/23/10
by Sandberg's evil twin on Sep 3, 2010 1:49 PM CDT up reply actions
Also all the crap Lou gets, it’s really ridiculous. Nobody (not nobody but a majority) ever blames Hendry. Hendry is terrible. How can anyone in the entire world justify having the highest payroll in the national league and having a job. Can anybody justify that?
I'm sure the Cardinals hope you are right about Pujols.
If you have some facts to back up your “likely” statement, I’d sure like to see them. What makes you think he will ignore all the money out there and take a big discount to stay in St. Louis? That he did before? It is possible. But I doubt it will be that simple this time…too much money at stake here and years of realizing how much money he gave up last time.
Starlin Castro singles on a pop up to catcher Jason LaRue.
Ryan Theriot scores. Two out -Gameday 7/23/10
by Sandberg's evil twin on Sep 2, 2010 6:01 PM CDT reply actions
Where does Pujols go?
Not to the Cubs. I would be surprised if he leaves. It’s not impossible, but it would buck conventional wisdom. Regardless it isn’t the main point of the post. Do you think the Cubs will be World Series contenders before 2014?
by JSB on Sep 2, 2010 6:16 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
Pujols will most likely stay in St. Louis...
…However…S.e.t. has a good point. Money most definitely talks. Boston is gonna offer either Pujols, Gonzalez or Fielder (in that order) a WHOLE ass-load of coin. I’d say somewhere in the 6 years @ 28-30 mill per for Pujols, OR 6 years @ 20 mill per to A-Gon or Fielder. They’re gonna get ONE of those guys. They’re lagging behind in the AL East and they know they need to sign one of them, pronto.
Joe Girardi...2011 Chicago Cubs Manager...Book it!!
Adam Dunn..2011 Chicago Cubs First Baseman - 3 yrs/$42 mill with a club option for a 4th.
Honestly
I dont think it will be that high in late 2011…I dont see the economy improving enough between now and then to offer a 2007 contract…
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Currently 34,839 on the Season Ticket Wait List - Expected age of being #0: 119
You might be right about that.
He may get a contract comparable to Howard numbers at 25 million a year. It’s hard to tell at this point and we have another season to figure it out. I would say for sure he will earn a lot closer to market value this time, if Boston, New York, LA or someone else doesn’t snag him first, St. Louis will have to pony up that money and dramatically increase their payroll to get him. He is not going to make 18 million a year and fall on his sword this time. He’s had years of watching everyone else make tons more money than him since the last time he did that. And even more importantly, so did his wife.
Starlin Castro singles on a pop up to catcher Jason LaRue.
Ryan Theriot scores. Two out -Gameday 7/23/10
by Sandberg's evil twin on Sep 3, 2010 1:36 PM CDT up reply actions
plus the annual payment + interest
owed on the purchase of the Cubs will weigh in on what Ricketts allows to be spent
Chronologically inept since 2060
"I could be writing this crap!" -- Crow T. Robot
Me: Q: I can run but not walk. Wherever I go, thought follows close behind. What am I?
Wrigster A: Theriot
You still didn't answer the question.
You’d be surprised. That’s all you have…you’re used to seeing him in St. Louis, you know he took a discount to be there last time, and that’s what makes it “likely” to you isn’t it. Just say that instead of deflecting.
I have no idea if the Cubs will be World Series contenders and that too wasn’t the main point of the post. Next year is unlikely. After next year we will have to see the shape of the team then.
Starlin Castro singles on a pop up to catcher Jason LaRue.
Ryan Theriot scores. Two out -Gameday 7/23/10
by Sandberg's evil twin on Sep 3, 2010 1:30 PM CDT up reply actions
What I don't find is power hitters at
corner outfield on infield. The guys at AAA are just that; they are not MLB players. I would like some home grown RBI men coming up. It seems like every trade we pick up pitchers which is fine, but at some point it would be nice to see someone with a big stick come up with the Cubs.
This is only the beginning....Lou Pinella end of '07 season and Chicago Transit Authority (the band when they were really good).
I think that could be the sentiment of many others.
Not me, because, they’re in my blood. But, losing DOES get sickening…and so-called “rebuilding”…compounds it.
Joe Girardi...2011 Chicago Cubs Manager...Book it!!
Adam Dunn..2011 Chicago Cubs First Baseman - 3 yrs/$42 mill with a club option for a 4th.
I guess my
tiring of the negativity wasn’t explained enough.
Who had Colvin penciled in for 20+ homeruns this year? Hell two years ago he was considered a semi bust because of injuries. What about Castro? Who had him approaching the level he is at, say in March of this year? My point is ballplayers can reach levels that no one can explain, it happens. That is why I disagree with the original post, who knows who will come out of the system that no one had labeled a “can’t miss” or a so called “Number 1 or 2 starter” Shit happens as they say.
We all know Hendry jacked up some deals. Soriano’s deal in length, Dome, and the horrible deal for Bradley. This is old freaking news.
So excuse me for being a half full guy when it comes to the Cubs. This year has been long enough.
Soriano’s deal
was signed by McDonough not Hendry, people always blame Hendry incorrectly for that one
Chronologically inept since 2060
"I could be writing this crap!" -- Crow T. Robot
Me: Q: I can run but not walk. Wherever I go, thought follows close behind. What am I?
Wrigster A: Theriot
Your article doesn't really make a complete case
The article follows the headline, talking about the farm system, but then you say
I think World Series contention anytime in the next 3 years is unlikely.
Somewhere there is an implicit case against the current ML guys which isn’t presented.
I don’t think they are as bad as they appear this year and am not ready to give up on 2011 or 2012, especially before we see what happens this off-season.
Since you don’t make the whole case I won’t either. I’m just going to say:
1991 Twins. 1993 Phillies (worst to first with cast-offs and retreads). 1998 Padres. Also, for every 1997 Yankees that wins a WS, you get an ’85 Twins or ’06 Cardinals. All it takes is a Team that believes.
It's in there
Starlin Castro is great. No denying that.Geo Soto is also really solid. Beyond that though, Tyler Colvin is still a 4th OF to me. He will need to make substantial leap forward in terms of his plate approach to have a corner OF bat on a contending team. Other than that, no other position players currently on the MLB team currently looks like he will be an impact player in 2012. And we are still stuck with Soriano through 2014. As far as pitchers go, Gorz and Wells are nice back-of-the-rotation innings eaters. Marmol and Marshall are good bullpen pieces. Among the older guys, we will still have Demp and Z in 2012. Neither are likely to be any better than they are now, and probably will be worse.
Who are the cornerstones of a future World Series team that are currently on the roster? The only position players I see are Castro and Soto. Those guys are good players at premium positions, but are not likely to be elite (6-7 WAR) anytime soon. The only pitchers I see are the bullpen guys: Marmol and Marshall.
by JSB on Sep 3, 2010 1:21 AM CDT up reply actions
You don't need superstars to make a WS
Soriano is only bad relative to his contract which is irrelevant for “team on the field” purposes. He’s decent. Fukudome is pretty good when used in the appropriate 70% of situations. He should stay. Aramis is still good when healthy. Will he be healthy next year? Who the hell knows. Not you. Not me. Not anyone. Dempster = 200 innings. Zambrano is 29. I’d say it is a coin flip whether he ticks better next year or worse. Byrd was an all-star this year. Castro and Soto everyone likes. DeWitt is solid & young and will likely improve. Colvin is a 4th outfielder, I agree. But he can do a good job of pushing Soriano, Byrd and Fukudome. B. Jackson is going to contribue in ‘12 if not next year. Back end of the bullpen is solid, as you say. Middle relief is a crapshoot every year. One year it’s good, one year it isn’t. Rotation health is far more important than having aces, at least in terms of getting to the playoffs. So again, if Z, Demp, Wells and Gorz can all throw 190 decent innings next year, who can absolutely say they can’t be 72-64 come end of July 2011 and go get one? Again, please reference the teams in my last post, or even this year’s Padres. You just can’t write teams off.
Those teams you reference all had great players and great seasons
’91 Twins: Lineup was just ok, but had Puckett. Great on defense and their pitching staff was also great (Morris, Tapani, Scott Erickson). That team won 95 games. Total WAR: 45.5
’93 Phillies: Dykstra, Daulton and Kruk were all all-stars in their prime. Their pitching staff was pretty good too. That team won 97 games. Total WAR: 37
’98 Padres: Greg Vaughn (yes he was a superstar then), Ken Caminiti, Tony Gwynn. Kevin Brown (8.4 WAR) and Trevor Hoffman (4.0 WAR as a reliever). That team won 98 games. Total WAR: 42
Yes, you can turn things around. But show me how the Cubs are going to come up with 35-45 WAR in 2011-2013. It seems pretty unlikely.
by JSB on Sep 3, 2010 2:04 AM CDT up reply actions
I stopped reading after your first line because it is so totally wrong.
You need superstars to make and win a WS.
nope
you just need to get in the playoffs – and with the NL Central you dont need a NY Yankees…
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Currently 34,839 on the Season Ticket Wait List - Expected age of being #0: 119
Besides the 2005 White Sox
Name one other team that has won the World Series in recent memory without a superstar?
by JSB on Sep 3, 2010 2:15 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
The 2006
Cardinals…granted Pujols was there…but he did next to nothing in the WS. How about the 2003 Marlins, who at the time had up and coming players but were not superstars yet. How about the 2002 Angels…can’t really name anyone on that team other than KRod, who again was a Rookie. Glaus and Speizo were not Superstars.
"All I want is food and creative love" - Rusted Root
by TheRiot Police on Sep 3, 2010 2:34 PM CDT up reply actions
How about Rolen and Edmonds?
I guess it comes down to what a “superstar” is. And hey, don’t forget David Eckstein!
Yeah.
It’s a tricky concept because those are names yet they didn’t perform well in the postseason. Eckstein sure was a wild aberration…not quite a Bucky Dent but surely hasn’t performed like that over the course of a season ever. That’s the puzzling part of the playoffs…seeing who will be the unknown that gets hot and helps their team get to/ win a WS.
Starlin Castro singles on a pop up to catcher Jason LaRue.
Ryan Theriot scores. Two out -Gameday 7/23/10
by Sandberg's evil twin on Sep 3, 2010 7:08 PM CDT up reply actions
Pudge was a superstar on the Marlins.
I’d have minor quibbles on your examples but I think you are right with your overall point those didn’t have a lot of names there performing.
Starlin Castro singles on a pop up to catcher Jason LaRue.
Ryan Theriot scores. Two out -Gameday 7/23/10
by Sandberg's evil twin on Sep 3, 2010 7:05 PM CDT up reply actions
at the time, hardly a superstar...
…IIRC he was a mid season call up who blew everyones expectations out of the water
Really?
2006 Cardinals: Pujols, Edmonds, Rolen, Carpenter and two very good bullpen pitchers in Isringhausen and Wainwright
2003 Marlins: Miguel Cabrera, Pudge Rodriguez, Josh Beckett, Dontrelle Willis
2002 Angels: Your best case, although Glaus had been an All Star the two previous years. You could also make cases for Anderson (All Star that year) and Troy Percival in addition to K-Rod.
Plus, as much as it nauseates me to say it, Paul Konerko and Mark Buehrle would both qualify for the 2005 White Sox.
Look, it’s one thing to say that the team with the least talent in the playoffs has a shot of winning it all. You won’t get any argument from me on that point; occasionally, that happens. However, in order to get into the playoffs in the first place, you still need a good team. You can’t expect to assemble a team full of castoffs, has-beens, never-weres, and mediocrity and expect to make the playoffs.
by Outshined_One on Sep 3, 2010 7:12 PM CDT up reply actions
Much of what you say here is true.
I would say that the 2006 Cards were still an aberration from the star notion in that though they had the players you mentioned, Wainwright was a rookie and not a star, and Pujols/Edmonds/Rolen/Carp all were either injured and having a lot of trouble contributing to the playoff run, or in the case of Pujols didn’t do very much in the playoffs. Or both. Duncan revived scrap heap projects and Eckstein played out of his mind…the stars aligned…the rain gave a lot of rest to STL pitchers that needed it…and Detriot completely imploded. They certainly did not win that year because of the stars assembled to start the season.
Starlin Castro singles on a pop up to catcher Jason LaRue.
Ryan Theriot scores. Two out -Gameday 7/23/10
by Sandberg's evil twin on Sep 3, 2010 7:27 PM CDT up reply actions
The point of the question
was name a team that won a WS w/o a Superstar. The point was not name a team who won a WS without good to really good players. All of the players you mentioned either were not superstar anymore, had not become superstars yet, or were never going to be superstars. I never said the teams were without good players and I even acknowledged that the 2003 marlins team include superstars who had yet to reach their full potential.
"All I want is food and creative love" - Rusted Root
by TheRiot Police on Sep 7, 2010 11:59 AM CDT up reply actions
The question was never going to work in a blog.
I’ve never seen a superstar tag attached to anyone playing. No one will ever agree to who merits being called that and who doesn’t.
Starlin Castro singles on a pop up to catcher Jason LaRue.
Ryan Theriot scores. Two out -Gameday 7/23/10
by Sandberg's evil twin on Sep 7, 2010 6:42 PM CDT up reply actions
The main argument I'd have with you here is that
You at least need your pitchers to perform, more than likely your “Ace” and 2nd/ 3rd rotation guys. If they aren’t superstars then they still have to pitch well. It’s not often that you would have those top two pitchers get to the playoffs and not be at least a star.
Starlin Castro singles on a pop up to catcher Jason LaRue.
Ryan Theriot scores. Two out -Gameday 7/23/10
by Sandberg's evil twin on Sep 3, 2010 7:14 PM CDT up reply actions
I'd say that if the Cubs make some good free agent decisions
As opposed to the free-spending approach that got them here… then, they could contend again within that timeframe.
Luckily, our young talent is already on the roster, up the middle… where we haven’t been youthful in years. Soto, Castro, Dewitt, and Colvin (who can play CF) are here. And Jackson (who projects as a major leaguer at CF, will be in the mix next season.
That’s a pretty good young nucleus to work with… straight up the middle. Now, the Cubs just have to add the pieces on the corners with RBI bats. If they do that by spending wisely this time (eg: don’t shell out millions to Adam Dunn), then they will right this ship.
Use your major league and minor league scouting system, and start dealing your hyped up prospects for bats that will help you. There are way too many Felix Pie’s, and Angel Guzman’s that run rapid in our organization. Deal them at the height of their hype… for the right pieces, and you could find yourself once again landing another Aramis Ramirez-type.
And… please… please… please… spend wisely.
"You win because of the quarterback. We have to get that position stabilized. We're fixated on that." -- Jerry Angelo (12.30.2008)
Jerry Angelo trades for Jay Cutler! (4.2.2009)
I've been on the 2012 bandwagon as the next legitimate shot at contention
but that’s just because its the “earliest” i could possibly see it.
I do think you’re placing WAY WAY too much emphasis solely on FA OR Internal development and not recognizing that while the farm system might not have a ton of high upside guys,building depth is the way teams like the Red Sox and Yankees have been able to acquire pieces through TRADE
I think that’s how the Cubs can improve, not necessarily by a reliance that everyone on the team will come from the farm, or there will be a lot of superstars hitting FA we can bid on, but on a combination of the two + Trades.
If the Cubs can restrict their FA spending to JUST difference makers (elite players) and then use the assets on the farm to acquire difference makers from teams struggling financially as those players near FA, I think they can build around the young core that they have right now
If a great baseball team needs the following:
- 1-2 star middle of the diamond position player
- 1 ace
- 2 high end bullpen pieces
- 2 high end TOR starters (#2’s)
- 3-4 back of the rotation starters
- 1 power middle of the order bat
- 1 leadoff/OBP guy
we already have the following:
- stars up the middle (CHECK: Soto AND Castro)
- 2 high end bullpen pieces (CHECK: Marmol and Marshall)
- 3-4 back of the rotation starters (CHECK: we have this in droves…)
- 2 high end TOR starters to accompany the ace (well… we have Dempster which is 1 of those pieces, hoping to develop 1 from Archer/McNutt/Cashner/Carpenter but that will probably just end up replacing Demp on the timeline anyway)
so we’d need:
- 1 big time middle of the order bat
- 1 leadoff/OBP guy
- 1 ace
- 1 additional TOR starter
Well, if we acquire the big time middle of the order bat through the 2012 FA 1B class (either Gonzalez or Fielder) and we can trade depth in the system to target a young SP that is becoming expensive for their team (guys like Verlander, Greinke, Nolasco, etc) then we’re just a top of the order guy and another pitcher away. That’s not that far and having the benefit of 2 up the middle stars as opposed to 1 should help close some of that gap
The key will be developing another TOR type starter a 1-3 from Cashner/Archer/McNutt/Carpenter and then finding a leadoff guy (maybe Brett Jackson solves this in the unconventional high BB/high K role that does its job in terms of getting on-base and making pitchers use a lot of pitches)
Do I think its realistic to EXPECT contention in 2012, no not yet. But I think its our most realistic chance to start thinking about it without hurting the future by either tying up more long-term money in 2011 that doesn’t coincide with our window being opened or tie up roster spots that we need guys to get PT and develop from.
So perhaps this is overrating our system, I don’t know. My hope is that Jackson, Lee, and two of the 4 arms become members of the next generation along with Castro/Cashner/Marmol/Marshall and then all the other pieces become depth pieces that are used in trades to supplement the major league roster with talent we can control
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by DartmouthCubsFan on Sep 3, 2010 8:54 AM CDT reply actions
I don't disagree with anything here
The point of my post was twofold: (1) that I think too many think our farm system is better than it actually is, and (2) there aren’t that many elite free agents on the market in the next two years that fit our timeframe and needs.
With some great moves and outstanding development from our top prospects, contention for the playoffs in 2012 is a distinct possibility. But, a lot would have to go right. Just like a lot would have had to go right for the Cubs to contend this year. I just don’t expect it to happen.
The Cubs just aren’t that well-positioned right now relative to their peers (both in the NL Central and the entire MLB).
by JSB on Sep 3, 2010 9:23 AM CDT via mobile up reply actions
Also
I think the Cubs need more than just 1 middle-of-the-order bat. Most of the perennial contenders today have at least 2 All-Star caliber bats. We probably could get away with some combination of Soriano/Byrd/Colvin in the corner OF spots in 2012. But will need solutions for 2013 and beyond.
Resiging Ramirez beyond 2011 looks to be a mistake to me. So we will need a 3B and jury is still very out on Vitters. I think there is a strong chance we are going to need an elite FA bat in both 2012 and 2013.
by JSB on Sep 3, 2010 9:31 AM CDT via mobile up reply actions
i'm expecting Soto to be the 2nd middle of the order bat
Soriano would be our 6-7 hitter in these scenarios, but yeah we’d probably need 1 more
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by DartmouthCubsFan on Sep 3, 2010 9:34 AM CDT up reply actions
He could be
but personally I dislike having to count on a catcher as the middle of the order guy. Injury and durability over the course of a season take their toll. Yes the Twins have Mauer but they also have the DH. Mike Piazza types are very rare.
John Grabow: $4.8 million in 2011.
We need more than one impact hitter for the current team to hit well.
Two…yeah now you’re starting to make it realistic. We’ve been far too inconsistent over the last two years for one hitter to turn things around. And, I doubt very much Soto or Castro or Colvin is suddenly going to hit light years ahead of what they have this year…especially multiyear. And you still haven’t addressed defense. There’s a lot to change/ turn around there as well. It won’t be easy to find new players we can sign that fit the position needed, play above average defense, and hit well enough to turn things around. Castro will play better D, Soto is pretty much what you see now, and Colvin will probably improve a little though I doubt increase his range much.
Starlin Castro singles on a pop up to catcher Jason LaRue.
Ryan Theriot scores. Two out -Gameday 7/23/10
by Sandberg's evil twin on Sep 3, 2010 1:58 PM CDT up reply actions
Soto already is an elite bat
he’s misused terribly here
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by DartmouthCubsFan on Sep 3, 2010 7:18 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Hmm..
I don’t know I’d agree with that but he does hit this year with a much better OPS than before and is a better hitter. He certainly has been misused this year. Lou got a mancrush on Hill and never let go.
Starlin Castro singles on a pop up to catcher Jason LaRue.
Ryan Theriot scores. Two out -Gameday 7/23/10
by Sandberg's evil twin on Sep 3, 2010 7:30 PM CDT up reply actions
Soto's .392 wOBA
leads all MLB catchers with 340 PAs and is 15th among ALL MLB hitters. I’d say that’s elite. Whether he is elite moving forward I suppose is debatable, but he sure is making last season look like an aberration. He should be batting 3rd in the lineup. Ridiculously misused.
One move
can solve a few of those problems. I had proposed a trade with the Mets that would allow the Cubs to move Zambrano for Carlos Beltran and Oliver Perez/Luis Castillo. Z has been pitching well since returning from his time on the restricted list, I now think that he can definitely be moved to another team in exchange for other bad contracts.
Perhaps the Cubs could move Z for Beltran and the Mets own poorly behaved pitcher; Francisco Rodriguez, and the money for his 2012 buyout. The Mets have to be desperate to move F-Rod, just as many thought the Cubs were desperate to move Z earlier in the year. Beltran gives the Cubs a potent bat in the lineup (if he is healthy, an admittedly big if), and F-Rod would bolster the bullpen.
Keeping Marmol in the closer spot prevents the games finished incentives in F-Rod’s contract from being exercised, and thus preventing his 17.5 million option in 2012.
Hendry has been creative enough in the past to make moves that fix some of his bad contracts, hopefully he can improve the team via trade this winter.
by neifiisgreat on Sep 3, 2010 11:51 AM CDT up reply actions
Except
Z has one year left and he’s pitching well, as you admit. This isn’t a Bradley situation any longer. We can get through one more year of him.
The salaries match up pretty well.
Z has his own set of warts, performance wise and behavioral. I think that adding Beltran would make Byrd movable for a starter that could replace Z’s production. The main issue with this trade is that it bumps payroll up a lot for 2011.
Another desitnation for Byrd
could be K.C. Trading him and one of our second tier middle infield prospects for Billy Butler might be a possibility. Butler is set for his first arbitration year, and KC has several 1B/3B/Corner Outfield prospects ready to fill his spot. They do not however have much in the way of Middle Infield prospects, and definitely don’t have a good CF.
Byrd makes more per season than Butler, so I don’t know if KC would be willing to add to payroll for him, but its not like he is a terribly expensive player.
I can't speak for the Royals finances
but Byrd is a reasonable contract, and he would improve their team, that is my reasoning for why KC would want Byrd. Pairing him with one of our second tier MI prospects (LeMahieu or Flaherty) would perhaps make his contract more palatable. The Royals were willing to shell out cash for Jason Kendall, I would hope that they would pay a good player also.
by neifiisgreat on Sep 5, 2010 11:19 AM CDT up reply actions
Byrd < Butler
suggesting acquiring byrd and trading Billy Butler would improve the Royals is rather ridiculous
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by DartmouthCubsFan on Sep 5, 2010 11:55 AM CDT up reply actions
Why?
Their current CF sucks. They have excellent 1B prospect Eric Hosmer waiting to take on 1st, plus potentially useful DH Kila K. also playing. The difference isn’t Byrd<Butler its Byrd & Kila/Hosmer is greater than Willy Bloomquist & Billy Butler. Mr. Butler is also up for arbitration, he will probably earn 4-5 million next year. Moving him and paying the league minimum to Kila or Hosmer would cover much of the salary difference anyway. I also suggested we send a MI prospect to fill in their minors, as that is one of KC’s weaknesses in the farm system.
by neifiisgreat on Sep 5, 2010 12:49 PM CDT up reply actions
I love that you love to
ponder hypotheticals. I’m just not sure KC is going to be dealing Butler unless the return is really, really good. As for the Mets ideas, I’m sure the Cubs will revisit it (after all, part of the reason they didn’t make the Perez/Castillo deal was reportedly to get Z’s value back up). The question becomes, has Z gotten back to form, because if so, then keeping him around for another year makes much more sense than dealing him and having to find another arm.
Here’s a fun team to ponder hypotheticals, if you are into it. The Rays. All indications are they will slash. They bumped payroll up specifically for this year, in an attempt to make a run. Crawford/Pena/Soriano are all FA’s, but they still have to replace those spots. They may need to deal off someone (likely a pitcher because of all the young pitching depth they have) to clear some more room to meet their owner’s (whose name is slipping me) targeted payroll while still having flexibility to fill holes.
I ask this because one of the guys out there that could be a decent fit for the Cubs, in regards to what I think the Cubs need, is Ben Zobrist. His power disappeared, although some believe it will bounce back a tiny bit, but he still saw a lot of pitches, took walks, got on base, and is a solid base runner. They don’t have any reason to give themselves two OF holes to fill, and Desmond Jennings can only fill one of them, so there’s probably little reason for them to deal the Illinois boy (Zobrist) unless the Cubs, say, pick up a contract like Matt Garza, who is an overhyped arm, but still capable.
Do I really think something this extravagant can happen (a deal for Zobrist/Garza)? Probably not, but it’s just an idea to toss around for fun.
Tampa Bay
is so hard to predict what they will do, due to their budget constraints. Its such a shame that such a well run franchise is addled with such a short payroll. Personally I think that acquiring Garza would be a good move, he would enjoy a bump in number moving to the NL. I think Zobrist, while a nice piece, doesn’t fill a long term need, what with Castro and DeWitt ably filling SS/2B on the big league squad, and our minor leaguers coming up.
The Rays have shown a willingness to move young talent (sending Delmon Young to the Twins is how they got Garza in the first place) so I imagine anything is possible. Perhaps sending Colvin back for Garza might do it, depending on what kind of salary relief they are looking for. The Rays may also wind up competing with us for 1B talent next season, I’m not sure they retain Pena for what he is likely to cost.
The Braves were another possible destination for Mr. Byrd, if the Cubs felt the need to deal him. Marlon is certainly an upgrade over Rick Ankiel/Nate McClouth. They do have a relative surplus of pitching, between a strong major league rotation, and good pitching prospects.
I actually feel some optimism for this offseason, Hendry has shown great trading aptitude in the past, and some of our bad contracts have been playing better as of late. Its fun to play GM at least.
I was just having fun with it earlier but
1. Zobrist – He plays a fairly solid RF and would fill the need, at least, better than anyone we have right now, of a leadoff guy. Of course, beyond what it would take, that would probably require dumping Fukudome.
2. I think Garza would enjoy a nice bump, but he is still somewhat of an overhyped arm. Doesn’t mean he isn’t a good pitcher, but some of the press clippings make him sound great. He’s a flyball pitcher who can give up the long ball. Keep in mind that, while Tropicana is friendly down the lines, gap to gap, it’s a difficult place for hitters to attack. As a side note, Jay Jackson’s best case scenario is probably Matt Garza-ish.
3. I think that there would be enough teams willing to take on Matt Garza that I’m not sure a Colvin for Garza trade would get them to bite. After all, they sort of have a similar guy, albeit older and willing to take more pitches (guess it isn’t that similar outside of the fact that Joyce can fill that lefty OF role with some pop), in Matt Joyce.
Do you still see Jay Jackson
as improving? My understanding is he has had a bit of a setback year in AAA. He was getting a lot of love prior to this season, but seemingly has been surpassed by the McNutts & Archers of the system.
Do you think he will be able to contribute next season? I think that the ability of Jackson to step up and run with the 5th starter role will play a big part in what the Cubs try and do with Zambrano this offseason. Is a rotation of Dempster, Z, Gorzo, Silva and Wells really that much different than Dempster, Gorzo, Silva, Wells & Jackson/Spellcheck, or for that matter, 18.5 million better? Either way we lack an ace, and are prone to blow-ups.
I enjoy your prospect writeups on minorleagueball & here, I’m curious to see what you think of the system after the graduations of Colvin & Castro. I don’t consider Cashner to be a graduate yet, he doesn’t belong here yet, hopefully he returns to the minors to work on command and his other pitches.
re:
Jay Jackson – The fastball was fine this year, but I heard some reports that suggested his slider wasn’t as sharp. He still has a chance to be a starter, but this is a big offseason for him, as he needs a consistent slider and to improve the change. Right now, I would rank Archer and McNutt both ahead of him, but for all our key pitching prospects, the important thing for people to remember is that, it is quite possible that all of them end up in the pen. I hope not, but each one of them has enough questions that people shouldn’t be giddy just yet.
I’ll try to make a fanpost someday, but cubsfan1 does a great job getting stuff on that it’s easier for me to simply comment in his posts (actually, may do a non-minors fanpost). I consider Cashner a graduate because he’s not a rookie anymore. He shouldn’t have been rushed that quick this year, but I hope the Cubs give him a shot to start before keeping him in the pen. It’s easy to forget that, at one point this year in the minors, he had a plus fastball, a plus slider, and a solid change, along with solid command
Cashner
Has his innings count been decreased this year due to being in the MLB pen vs. starting in Iowa? I think that this may have hindered his development in addition to the obvious mishandling in the pen. 20 or 30 fewer innings to develop pitches could be a big loss.
certainly
although it’s not really fair to assess innings in that straightforward way, since his usage out of the pen is, obviously, far different than as a starter. He’s around 100 innings right now for the season. In 2009, he threw around 100 innings. A realistic hope, had he stayed as a starter, would’ve been 125-135 innings. Furthermore, coming out of the pen, his ability to utilize his arsenal on a consistent basis is limited.
One comment that does need to be made is that, had he stayed as a starter, he was going to have to shift to the pen or shut down at some point this year, as his IP rate in the minors was going fast. All that said, whether or not he can stick as a starter depends on his work ethic, but the way he was used this year obviously didn’t help things in developing him as a starter.
I like it Neifi
This Team needs to change some things that have been around for a while that might be having an indirect bad affect on the teams chemistry. I think its time to move Z. You have to throw in Marmol in that deal.
given the money committed
i’m not sure i see why the cubs should punt on 2011,
the cubs should be able to sign or trade for a LH-hitting 1B that can hit in the middle of the lineup. they may even be able to find a suitable one-year stopgap that would still allow them to pursue one of the big names in 2012.
for 2011 the cubs could commit to fukudome leading off and playing RF. i don’t see much need to rush tyler colvin into a starting role to start next year. if you’re strictly looking at obp in the leadoff spot byrd, dewitt and castro could also be possibilities there and brett jackson would be the likely candidate to replace fukudome in the OF and at the top of the order starting in 2012 (if not sooner).
the 2012 free agent crop for SP is rather weak but cliff lee, tim hudson and maybe even brandon webb are around this year for the bidding so if you want an ace the time to get one is now.
a lot would have to go right, but isn’t that usually the case?
by circuitclout on Sep 3, 2010 12:11 PM CDT up reply actions
Hudson
He’s under contract for 2011 and 2012 and has a team friendly option ($9 million) for 2013.
by JSB on Sep 3, 2010 12:47 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
and brandon webb
is broken
follow me on twitter for fantasy sports analysis @http://twitter.com/DrewDinkmeyer or get the full analysis at www.fantistics.com
by DartmouthCubsFan on Sep 3, 2010 12:48 PM CDT up reply actions
he's a guy i'd take a gamble on this offseason
if the price was right. Somewhere from 2-5 million – I’d ponder it. Higher? Probably not.
I don't know
Maybe 2 million but not much more. It has been 2 years now.
John Grabow: $4.8 million in 2011.
noted
cot’s has him in their potential free agent list. oops.
by circuitclout on Sep 3, 2010 12:56 PM CDT up reply actions
the money committed is a sunk cost
its there regardless of how good the players are
so the question then becomes, is the roster as constructed with the available payroll left and available positions left good enough that making big splashes in FA can push us into contention
It’s been a big topic of debate here for a while, I personally don’t believe they can without sacrificing the future by repeating mistakes of the past
follow me on twitter for fantasy sports analysis @http://twitter.com/DrewDinkmeyer or get the full analysis at www.fantistics.com
by DartmouthCubsFan on Sep 3, 2010 12:48 PM CDT up reply actions
Sunk cost is the key
Problem is that the Cubs probably don’t look at it that way. We will likely see another patch job this off-season. Our best hope is that it is limited in years and dollars committed.
The Cubs need to be targeting impact players under 30 to build their next contending team. The only player that fits that profile going on the market this winter is Carl Crawford, and I think he will be overpaid for what he brings to the table.
by JSB on Sep 3, 2010 12:52 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
Punting on a season
shouldn’t be an option. A team can get younger and rebuild while still attempting to compete. Its a matter of being creative with moves and not locking into long term contracts that will hinder the team in the future. There are plenty of players that can help the Cubs without hurting them long term. It just means signing and trading and drafting judiciously.
Webb reportedly wants a $8-10 million deal
He would be a huge roll of the dice at this point. Lee is the only bona fide “ace” that will go on the market between now and 2013.
by JSB on Sep 3, 2010 12:48 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
Webb will not get that guaranteed
He has been gone two years now. The only way he sees that is with lots of incentives.
John Grabow: $4.8 million in 2011.
but it is doubtful he will get it
I always turn to the sports section first. The sports page records people's accomplishments; the front page has nothing but man's failures.
~Earl Warren
by lookingdeadred on Sep 4, 2010 10:10 AM CDT up reply actions
And how is Sheets doing?
I always turn to the sports section first. The sports page records people's accomplishments; the front page has nothing but man's failures.
~Earl Warren
by lookingdeadred on Sep 5, 2010 10:41 AM CDT up reply actions
not looking at Wins/Loses
his line has a lot of similar numbers to his first and second seasons
Chronologically inept since 2060
"I could be writing this crap!" -- Crow T. Robot
Me: Q: I can run but not walk. Wherever I go, thought follows close behind. What am I?
Wrigster A: Theriot
Nor was I, I was referring to Sheets being injured again
Maybe someone will overpay for Webb, but if teams learn anything from the A’s overpaying for Sheets is that damaged goods are not worth a big contract
I always turn to the sports section first. The sports page records people's accomplishments; the front page has nothing but man's failures.
~Earl Warren
by lookingdeadred on Sep 5, 2010 4:19 PM CDT up reply actions
Generally agree that 2012 will be the earliest year the Cubs can truly challenge again
The best they can do is get to around .500 next year.
I do disagree on one point though, the Cubs need two TOR guys. Dempster does not really qualify any more as a TOR guy IMO. He is a pretty good 3, but if he is not a 2 on a top team. The only way they can get away with just getting one TOR guy is if Zambrano has gotten over his mental irregularities and is a top pitcher again. He has pitched like a TOR guy since his return.
I always turn to the sports section first. The sports page records people's accomplishments; the front page has nothing but man's failures.
~Earl Warren
by lookingdeadred on Sep 4, 2010 10:08 AM CDT up reply actions
The short answer to you question is yes...
and constantly.
But I would add that the Brewers are not in bad shape at all, and should look to contend again as early as next season.
Apparently I was wrong about the Brewers
Would you mind filling me in on why they will be better next year and going forward?
by JSB on Sep 3, 2010 9:24 AM CDT via mobile up reply actions
Offensively,
they’re fine more or less, and I do believe that they’ll keep Fielder to the bitter end. There is a ton of money coming off their books in bad contracts after this season, and some guys that they may quietly separate themselves from to give them a bit more flexibility. And the bullpen looks MUCH better with Braddock, Loe, and Axford anchoring it now.
Realistically, what they need is a lead-off man to give them the things that they hoped they’d get from Gomez and didn’t, and a pitcher or two to give them what Suppan and Davis couldn’t. Eat up some innings, and be league average. But those are problems that they should be able to solve in free agency fairly easily. And really, they may have even figured out the lead-of situation with Cain already, so I would not be surprised to see them just take the money that was previously paid to Davis and Suppan, and go big after a top-tier starter to pair with Gallardo in trade or FA.
by Damen Jackson on Sep 3, 2010 9:34 AM CDT up reply actions
Yeah, I'm intrigued by your statement as well.
How are they going to, say, almost completely rebuild their rotation by next year?
Contributing Editor, SB Nation Chicago. Please follow us on Twitter!
They won't need to do that..
You’ve got Gallardo, Wolf, and Parra/Narveson on board already. And I don’t think that it would take much to bring Bush back if needed, who has at least returned to his norm as he’s recovered from his injury last season. They do need to go find a good starter, but there’s some coin there to do some shopping with.
by Damen Jackson on Sep 3, 2010 9:41 AM CDT up reply actions
Ted Lilly
would be a very nice pickup for them.
by Damen Jackson on Sep 3, 2010 9:59 AM CDT up reply actions
I have to question your Brewers optimism too
Their rotation needs a lot of help. Wolf has been ok but he has a 4.76 ERA. He is 33 too so improvement shouldn’t be expected. Parra’s ship is close to sailing. The Brewers keep trying with him but his numbers are much worse as a starter. His opponents line as a starter this year is .293 / .379 / .494 with a 6.19 ERA. Narveson is a 28 y.o. with a 5+ ERA. Bush’s numbers are the worst of his career. Gallardo is the one sure thing they have.
Could they improve next year, yes but I don’t see contending.
John Grabow: $4.8 million in 2011.
They've been going back and forth for top offense w/Reds
all year in most categories. They’re losing about 45 million in bad contracts. They’ll start with Gallardo and Wolf. Narveson just shut out the white hot Reds for 7 innings. He’s also dominated some other good teams. But he is a control pitcher. He was wild for a few starts and it blew up his ERA. If he doesn’t have it, he is spectacularly worthless. If he does, he’s like last year when he got 10 Ks against the Cubs. Parra might end up being a power lefty in the bullpen. He throws mid-90s as a starter and humps it up some when he relieves. They’ve got pitching in the minors that will probably start at AAA and be available later in the season.
That leaves them with 2 starter spots to fill. Is that really all that different than a lot of teams?
So Randy Wolf is your No. 2?
He’s 34 and has been all kinds of awful this year. As of right now, he’s an eyelash above replacement level. What makes you think he’ll bounce back at this point?
Contributing Editor, SB Nation Chicago. Please follow us on Twitter!
I won't flame away
Since I agree with a lot of what you say. The Cubs system is producing a lot of good pieces but the Cubs need to big impact players and I just don’t see them in their system. They are going to have to come from outside and there aren’t many good options. Obviously Gonzalez will be one but the Cubs better get ready as Boston is going to make a run.
John Grabow: $4.8 million in 2011.
A change in organizational philosophy.
For a long time, the Cubs have relied on mainly home run hitters, mainly because of this notion of Wrigley Field being such a hitters’ ballpark. How many times have you heard a guy say, “Man, how many home runs would <insert player’s name here> hit in Wrigley Field?” Now obviously offense is important. We’ve seen that up close and personal this year. But it seems to me that in a ballpark like Wrigley, you need to be able to play two different types of baseball. In the hot summer months, with the wind blowing out, you need to be able to out-slug teams at times. Early and late in the season, and even more so in the postseason, you need to rely on speed and defense for two reasons: one, you’re playing in cold weather conditions a lot, with the wind blowing in a lot, so trying to outslug guys is a waste of time. Second, particularly in the postseason, you’re facing the #1 and #2 pitchers on all of the best teams. Again, trying to outslug guys is a waste of time.
Therefore, a lot of Cubs teams that have been good regular season teams have not fared well in the postseason at all. And especially in West Coast ballparks (never won a playoff game, not a single one, on the West Coast, and you can include Arizona in that), which tend to be large, pitchers’ ballparks, with heavy air where the ball does not carry well. Coincidence? I say no. So what to do? We need to rely on small ball. Manufacturing runs. Stealing bases. Sacrifice bunting. Suicide squeezes. Tight, fundamental defense. Good range up the middle. In short: speed, speed, speed. We about as much speed on this team as a herd of Galapogas land tortises, and it’s killed us all year.
First, I am sick and tired of watching bad defense, and a team that is incapable of stealing a base, scoring from first on a double, and having range up the middle, etc. I honestly think, even in Wrigley Field, this is where our focus needs to be. Speed, defense, and fundamentals, along with pitching. Less focus on offense, more focus on the other facets of the game. The problem is, this is like the Bears trying to become a passing-oriented offense. The running game is so ingrained in the organizational philosophy, that I don’t know if it can ever change. The same can be said of the Cubs relying almost solely on hitting home runs. How do you change the organizational philosophy after all these years?
"Don't complain to me about the stormy weather, boys. Just bring the ship into port." --Steve Stone, September 2004
by ctcoff99 on Sep 3, 2010 1:17 PM CDT reply actions 2 recs
Since I've paid attention to how Wrigley Field plays
I see maybe 10-15 actual games a year where the wind blowing out makes it incredibly hitter-friendly and I’ve seen nearly as many (if not a lot more some years) where the wind is blowing in or it’s too cold. If Wrigley Field was ever Coors Field 0.9b, I don’t remember it.
You are absolutely right about people concentrating on the wrong things. Some of our more successful teams only had one actual power hitter and a bunch of guys that made good contact but were not threats for consistent 30+ HR seasons. Give me another Mark Grace and I don’t need a power hitting left handed bat in the middle of the order.
[...]when Giants coach Steve Owen, a certified defensive genius, was asked how he planned to stop Nagurski, he said: "With a shotgun, as he’s leaving the dressing room."
by NobodySpecial on Sep 3, 2010 5:31 PM CDT up reply actions
I will say that yearly I see the graphic up on home and away games
That the wind blows in more times during the year than out. So creating a power hitting team seems a bad idea over the course of a season unless those said power hitters can get on base as well. Being one dimensional and slow as a team has cost the team this season. I agree that concentrating on them being a power hitter is a bad idea as a whole for the team, the players need to contribute more than that especially with the steroid era waning.
Starlin Castro singles on a pop up to catcher Jason LaRue.
Ryan Theriot scores. Two out -Gameday 7/23/10
by Sandberg's evil twin on Sep 3, 2010 7:02 PM CDT up reply actions
The longer the Cubs...
…have Ricketts as the guy judging the overall health of the baseball operations, the closer the Cubs are to becoming the Chicago Bears (who have an accountant as President).
Ricketts may have a plan to address this, and I’m hoping he moves on it this offseason.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
Could be more meat to this post...
I see what you’re trying to do here, and to a degree I tend to agree, but teams are built from more than one source. I think that from what I’ve read from BCB contributors is that the consensus is that the Cubs’ farm system is looking up after about a dozen years or so of mediocrity.
There are a hundred ways to build a baseball team. Just because we don’t have Joey Votto in our system doesn’t mean we can’t sign a talented 1B to a long term deal. We have the added advantage of about $30-80 million per year more to spend than the teams you mentioned. We’re at least in the top third in MLB home grown talent, which will at least let us conserve more money which would have otherwise been wasted on overinflated contracts.
Proud recipient of a hot dog shot from the Iowa Cubs hot dog gun.
Three Points
(1) I would not say that we are in the top 1/3 of homegrown talent in MLB. Teams that I would rank ahead of the Cubs (in no particular order): Rockies, Giants, Reds, Braves, Marlins, Phillies, Rays, Yankees, Red Sox, Twins, A’s.
(2) So what if we have an additional $30-80 million to spend on free agents. First, there aren’t that many elite free agents that are coming on the market in the next 3 years. Second, spending in free agency is a problematic way for any team outside of the Yankees to build a contender.
(3) Yes, the Cubs farm system is getting better. But, it was one of the worst in MLB for a really long time so it has a long ways to go. We are doing a better job of producing guys that can play in the MLB. Now, we need to start producing impact guys. Castro is a good start. We need several more like him to build a true World Series contender.
Also
The teams listed above are only those teams that clearly have more homegrown talent. An argument also could be made for several other other teams: Jays, Orioles, Brewers, Padres, Dodgers, D-Backs, Nationals, Cardinals, Angels.
Completely agree...
….and beyond this, our current GM oversaw the worst period of talent development during his 8 year tenure as director. It’s nice that things are improving, but the organization has a long way to go to be considered a top 10 baseball organization.
The ROI on money spent has been an absolute joke and much of that has been because our current GM does not know how to properly assemble a roster.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
Every starting position player
except McGehee was drafted and developed by the Brewers, as was Gallardo and Capuano and a couple relievers. The closer and one of the new guys was picked up without being drafted. Not that any of that diminishes your basic point.
by ol Pete on Sep 10, 2010 1:49 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
I think this gets overlooked along with the GM.
It seems the media and BCB spends a lot of time and effort discussing which manager is right for the position next year when to me if there isn’t a change in philosophy and general manager it won’t matter anyway. A decision to keep/maintain/dedicate themselves to a solid farm system and fundamentals within it should be part of that if the Cubs expect to compete with the current economy and debt our owner has.
Starlin Castro singles on a pop up to catcher Jason LaRue.
Ryan Theriot scores. Two out -Gameday 7/23/10
by Sandberg's evil twin on Sep 13, 2010 7:09 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Correct...
…no one wants to peel back the layers of the onion and wants to convince themselves all will be well with the right manager and a FA signing or two.
We have ample evidence to show this particular brain trust has been; very reactive vs proactive, flys be the seat of their pants, has a flawed organizational philosophy and has struggled to put good balanced rosters together despite ample resources.
As long as this continues, the Cubs will keep chewing up and spitting out managers like they have for quite sometime now.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
by MPH73 on Sep 13, 2010 9:46 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
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