Soto's Second HR In Two Days Gives Cubs 5-4 Win
by Al Yellon on Sep 6, 2010 4:49 PM CDT
in Chicago Cubs Recaps
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PrintIf you closed your eyes and listened to the crowd at Wrigley Field after Geovany Soto hit his tiebreaking homer in the eighth inning, just for a moment it felt like 2008 all over again.
OK, open your eyes now and look over the half-empty stands and realize that this homer, though it gave the Cubs a 5-4 win over the Astros, didn't mean all that much; all it did was move the Cubs to 18 games under .500 and pull them to within 4.5 games of... third place, behind the Astros. With the Brewers' loss to the Cardinals this afternoon, the Cubs are 3.5 games behind Milwaukee for fourth place.
Such are the small victories of a dismal season. Worse today was the Triple-A Iowa Cubs blowing a 6-3 lead going into the seventh inning against Memphis and losing 7-6, thus ending their season in second place. Rumor heard: there may be some callups from Iowa at Wrigley Field as soon as tomorrow, though I don't have any specific names.
In addition to Soto's home run, he also survived a tough collision with the Astros' Michael Bourn trying to score on a contact play; Jeff Baker threw accurately home and Soto held on to the ball in the fourth inning, keeping the score 4-3 Houston.
Casey Coleman got hit hard in the second inning, beginning with a Chris Johnson home run, and gave up four runs. Somehow, he managed to stay in the game through the sixth, even though he gave up five walks and eight hits; the Cubs scored three in the third, two of them on Marlon Byrd's home run, to make it 4-3.
It stayed that way until the fifth, when a Darwin Barney single and Baker double tied the game. Barney made a couple of nice plays in the field and had two hits; it's no guarantee, but I think the Cubs have found their backup middle infielder for 2011. The best news is that, for the first time since Andres Blanco was let go, that would mean the Cubs would have a true backup shortstop who is actually good defensively at the position.
Marcos Mateo, who likely will not be back next year, and Andrew Cashner, who will, threw two good relief innings. Cashner was credited with the individual win as the pitcher of record when Soto homered; Carlos Marmol recorded his 28th save in one of the quickest ninth innings he's had all year -- only eight pitches, two infield groundouts and a popup.
On a strange weather day that was divided between sunshine and clouds and an annoying little rainshower in the seventh inning, the announced attendance was 31,647. It appeared to be about 10,000 less than that in the ballpark, with the bleachers less than half full. That makes the Cubs' season attendance total 2,775,698 -- 224,302 short of 3 million with eight dates remaining. The Cubs must average 28,038 to pass that milestone for the seventh straight year; it'll be close, because the next two nights (and the three against the Giants coming up two weeks from now) are no guarantee to draw that many. In any case, this year's total paid attendance will be the smallest since 2003, and the number in the ballpark considerably lower than that. I'll have a longer post about attendance later this week.
In the meantime, let's win some more games. Today, Starlin Castro sat on the bench, according to various tweets, to "reflect" on his brain fart yesterday when he stepped off first base and was tagged out to end an inning when he forgot how many outs they were. This is something that wouldn't have happened under Lou Piniella, and it's a gentle reminder by Mike Quade that the game needs to be played right.
Whoever the manager is next year, this kind of thing can only help.
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Nice game today, Geo...
If only he would have held on to the ball on the play at the plate against the Phillies on July 17. At that time, I thought the Cubs might still have a shot to get back into it.
Quade is off to a good start – nice to see the guys playing hard every day…
Get 'em on, Get 'em over, Get 'em in!
Happy for Geo
The guy worked hard in the off season and it has paid off.
It is just good to see the Cubs win games. The Astros have played well lately so it was a good win and hopefully another series win. Falling behind like this in April through July would of been a sure loss. Good win.
by Grockcubs on Sep 6, 2010 5:03 PM CDT reply actions 1 recs
Me too
Somehow nobody seems to have noticed that Soto is the best offensive catcher in baseball this year. He’s batted higher than 7th in the order in just 13 games. That is really indefensible. As a rookie, he got 81 games combined hitting 5th or 6th.
I keep seeing you say that
Mateo won’t be back. Can I ask why?
Just curious why we’ve already written him off totally. He’s not ancient and he’s got decent stuff.
Nobody who ever gave his best regretted it. -George Halas
Actually, he is fairly "ancient".
He’ll be 27 in April — no kid. He never pitched above Double-A before this year. And though he has a lot of strikeouts, he has given up 18 hits and five walks in 12.1 innings — that’s a WHIP of 1.86, to go along with an ERA of 9.49 with five home runs allowed.
Not impressed.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
Honestly
I’ve never seen what the Cubs saw in him. Yes, he throws hard, but not over the plate and he generally can’t stay healthy.
I keep thinking they’re trying to justify the Buck Coates trade.
This.
Understandably to me I think patience with Mateo has run out.
Starlin Castro singles on a pop up to catcher Jason LaRue.
Ryan Theriot scores. Two out -Gameday 7/23/10
by Sandberg's evil twin on Sep 6, 2010 5:33 PM CDT up reply actions
Mateo is getting a reward for being a good organizational guy.
He won’t be back.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
they held out hope
because there are very few guys in the system with his stuff. It wasn’t just throwing hard – at his best, he had a mid-90’s plus fastball with a plus slider, while showing flashes of control (walk rates were never that bad). That said, he never developed his changeup enough to effectively deal with lefties, and he has lapses of consistency issues.
I don’t think he’s necessarily a goner just yet, although his hold on a 40 man spot is quite tenuous. That said, there are a lot of young arms that are on thin ice in that regards. Justin Berg, John Gaub, Blake Parker are all potential chopping block guys, along with Mateo. Atkins/Gray could also be on thin ice. Angel Guzman will, in all likelihood, get non-tendered. The Cubs aren’t going to let all these arms go, so someone will likely squirt through. Who that is, only time will tell.
Wow
Never thought I would hear “Justin Berg” and the word “decent” in the same sentence.
"I knew there had to be a place where the game could be fun again. I found that place. It's called Wrigley Field. It reminded that if you love the game, it will love you back." - Andre Dawson, HOF speech 7/25/10
um
Justin Berg had a 2.88 K rate, 4.79 BB rate in 34.1 innings this year. Marcos Mateo has better overall stuff, and the 11.1 innings sample size doesn’t mean squat yet, but he does have a 14.29 K rate and a 3.97 BB rate in those 11.1 innings. A BABIP of .462 doesn’t really help Mateo.
The raw stuff and ability is there for Mateo to be a very useful pen arm. For everyone writing Mateo off just yet, let’s wait and see. I don’t deny the possibility of it happening, but his one-two punch of a mid-90’s fastball and a hard slider is still one of the best in the system (in terms of one-two punches … doesn’t measure up to Cashner at his best, or Archer, but it’s up there).
There's a whole boatload of AAA relievers who are in their mid-20's and who have decent stuff.
Very few of them are good enough for the majors. We’ve seen that this year with the neverending train to and from Des Moines.
oh , i know
i was just wondering why specifically mateo got singled out to the point where everytime his name is mentioned its followed by “who won’t be here next year”.
it just peaked my curiousity.
Nobody who ever gave his best regretted it. -George Halas
It's always easier to play bad cop
with the younger players. If Quade really wanted to make a statement he would have done that with Ramirez or Soriano by now. Not impressed.
Maybe, but...
… again, Lou wouldn’t have even done this. Quade called it a “teachable moment”. Can you even imagine Lou using that term?
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
Lou called them "Cubbie occurrences"
same thing, right? ;-)
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
Not at all.
Those were different. The Castro incident was just not smart play.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
Lou would have said something like "What can I do?"
"I'm not much of a chemistry guy, you know. Chemistry to me is a pinch-hit double with the bases loaded"--Jim Frey, Chicago Tribune, 1985.
If he was awake to notice it.
Starlin Castro singles on a pop up to catcher Jason LaRue.
Ryan Theriot scores. Two out -Gameday 7/23/10
by Sandberg's evil twin on Sep 6, 2010 6:58 PM CDT up reply actions
IMHO, it's almost just as bad.
The human psyche is a fragile thing and if a young player sees he’s being singled out when there are plenty of fundamentally bad players on this team that can do nothing more than breed resentment. Not a good thing in a clubhouse. It’s almost better to do nothing than just single out the youngsters.
It is not better to do just nothing, anymore than it is to choose a vet
just because he is a vet. Quade is doing the right thing here with a youngster that needs to see this is not how you play the game. I agree that vets should be included …but this is now Quade’s watch and I am happy to see he’s trying to show a player who is developing the kind of play that should be expected. Yes Quade shouldn’t restrict himself to one player but there is little sign to me he is doing that…this was a very obvious offense that needed a response. I was glad to see he didn’t sweep it under the rug as Lou probably would have. The “clubhouse” now knows they will be held accountable.
Starlin Castro singles on a pop up to catcher Jason LaRue.
Ryan Theriot scores. Two out -Gameday 7/23/10
by Sandberg's evil twin on Sep 6, 2010 5:38 PM CDT up reply actions
How do we know for sure what Lou did behind the scenes?
It’s very clear from some statements that have been made post retirement that Lou was more comfortable being a little more straight forward with members of the media that were outside of the chicago media sphere. What Lou said and did were probably two very different things. Let’s look at this Quade thing for what it is, a misguided attempt at corrective discipline.
We don't know what Lou did behind the scenes
Other than tell Hendry to get a bunch of players he liked, apparently. Don’t let that stop anyone from bashing him, though.
Well, he did listen if you recall
When Lou was screaming for leftties in the lineup way back when he got him Bradley.
"I knew there had to be a place where the game could be fun again. I found that place. It's called Wrigley Field. It reminded that if you love the game, it will love you back." - Andre Dawson, HOF speech 7/25/10
It wasn't misguided at all.
What we do know from behind the scenes is that no matter what Lou said to him, benching Castro for a game did not happen. I like the clarity of what Quade did a lot. For instance, TLR has sat the young Rasmus a number of times now using a bogus claim he was injured when in fact he is displeased with him for a number of reasons. Telling Castro I am sitting you for this reason and this is what I expect of you will work a lot better than choosing someone else without saying why publicly. If Castro can’t handle that he won’t last in the majors to begin with.
Starlin Castro singles on a pop up to catcher Jason LaRue.
Ryan Theriot scores. Two out -Gameday 7/23/10
by Sandberg's evil twin on Sep 6, 2010 5:51 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
I didn't say Castro couldn't handle it as long as he's receiving
what we know as equal justice. Again why single out Castro? Because he’s a cheap, young target.
He was disciplined because
he made a very obvious mistake and has done so numerous times during the season. I don’t understand you thinking he is being picked on. He didn’t keep track of outs and has done this numerous times during the year. I would expect Quade to do that with other players on the team for such an obvious mistake. It’s even more important with Castro because he will be on the team next year and he is young.
Starlin Castro singles on a pop up to catcher Jason LaRue.
Ryan Theriot scores. Two out -Gameday 7/23/10
by Sandberg's evil twin on Sep 6, 2010 5:57 PM CDT up reply actions
a certain player did that last year
and it was the beginning of the end. Im not saying castro is anything like him, but your job as a player is to know the outs. period. that is basic fundamentals. if you cant do that you need to be called out.
"Baseball is ninety percent mental. The other half is physical." -Yogi Berra
I don't have enough fingers and toes to count
how many times Quade has been in a position to do the exact same thing to other players on this team just in the time that he’s been manager. You can’t tell me that Castro doesn’t see the same thing.
theres a difference
between an error and a mental lapse.
"Baseball is ninety percent mental. The other half is physical." -Yogi Berra
Something as obvious as not knowing the amount of outs?
Something that shows they aren’t concentrating on the game that much? That’s a complete mental lapse. What examples are those you speak of?
Starlin Castro singles on a pop up to catcher Jason LaRue.
Ryan Theriot scores. Two out -Gameday 7/23/10
by Sandberg's evil twin on Sep 6, 2010 6:07 PM CDT up reply actions
"Something as obvious as not knowing the amount of outs?"
Yes. Soriano in Washington, because of his refusal to run hard out of the box, passed on a chance for an ITP home run. In the same series, I counted two chances that Ramirez had to make what would usually be routine outs(in a pennant race) but refused to dive for balls hit to his right. I could go on but these days the mistakes and the games seem to blur together. But I provided you three examples of a lack of effort, which in my opinion is worse than forgetting how many outs there are.
Yes you did.
I don’t agree that they are worse…forgetting what is going on in the game completely seems worse to me.
Quade was getting his feet wet, that first series with the Nats was his first games as a manager. I agree sitting Sori would have been a good thing to do in general, to be honest I didn’t see that game but if it went down as you say that sounds right. Ramirez has been lazy jogging to first, I don’t know if he was lazy fielding but I do agree that vets shouldn’t be exempted for obvious lack of effort, even though it happens commonly with many managers.
Starlin Castro singles on a pop up to catcher Jason LaRue.
Ryan Theriot scores. Two out -Gameday 7/23/10
by Sandberg's evil twin on Sep 6, 2010 8:53 PM CDT up reply actions
I called for Soriano's benching
after another of his patented grandstanding out of the box. But you can’t suggest that not diving for a ball is reason for discipline. So I count only one other instance rather than numerous.
But let’s be honest. Castro has the habit of being very casual in his play, particularly on plays around 2nd base. In all professional sports, rookies are held to a higher standard,. i’d be willing to bet he will be more focused in the future and that’s a good thing.
If a quality pitching start is 3 runs and 6 innings, then a quality hitting day is 1 for 4.
by tharr on Sep 6, 2010 9:43 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Well said.
As Quade said, it was a “teachable moment”. I believe him and I think he will use this to positive effect.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
We'll see about accountability
If Soriano starts collecting splinters in his rear after another incident of dogging it out of the batter’s box, or Ramirez for waving at a grounder as it goes by.
Letting him play through errors in judgment
hasn’t fixed them either.
Giving the kid a few days off (after riding him into the ground, 104 of 105 possible games) is a good idea. Just let him catch his breath.
Nobody who ever gave his best regretted it. -George Halas
The Cubs haven't been very good about regularly sitting their starting SS
At any time over the last 4 seasons.
"Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have?" -Frank Chance
"If [Ruth] had [called his shot], I would have knocked him down with the next pitch." -Charlie Root
Amen.
Theriot, Niefi…play ’em until they puke, then play them some more.
Starlin Castro singles on a pop up to catcher Jason LaRue.
Ryan Theriot scores. Two out -Gameday 7/23/10
by Sandberg's evil twin on Sep 6, 2010 9:00 PM CDT up reply actions
except
Castro, by all indications, really respects the heck out of Quade, and all indications are that he understands why this was done. Furthermore, what are you supposed to do? Say it’s okay and let it go? Sure, maybe Quade should call out the vets at times as well (although I don’t recall a blunder that bad under Quade’s watch from a vet), but you have to send a message. Castro’s a good student and has a great relationship with Quade – I think this is far more positive than you are suggesting.
I agree
I’d like someone who has the stones to bench high salaried players when they loaf or make dumb mental errors.
seriously
this is a bit ridiculous if this is a way to prop up Sandberg. I’m betting Sandberg would’ve done the exact thing to Castro … and I’d bet that Sandberg wouldn’t have called out Ramirez on his failure to dive, as you seem to suggest should be done. What manager has called out a player publically for refusing to dive?
Actually, I’m quite glad Quade did what he did. It sets a tenor for the clubhouse, and let’s Castro know that for all he’s done, he still needs to work hard. Very few managers call out vets for grandstanding and failing to dive, as you so suggest.
Although I prefer Girardi , BUT, will be OK with Ryno...
…I’m likin’ this Quade guy more and more.
Joe Girardi...2011 Chicago Cubs Manager...Book it!!
Adam Dunn..2011 Chicago Cubs First Baseman - 3 yrs/$42 mill with a club option for a 4th.
an interesting ?
is that maybe the first full inning Marmol has thrown this year without a strikeout? I wouldnt be surprised.
"Baseball is ninety percent mental. The other half is physical." -Yogi Berra
Here's your definitive list
April 26 vs. Washington, 1IP: FO9, FO9, 2B, 6-3
May 15 vs. Pittsburgh, 1IP: 3-1, HR, FO8, 4-3
August 25 @ Washington, 1IP: FO7, 6-3, 1B, FO9
September 6 vs. Houston, 1IP: 3-1, 3U, FO4
"Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have?" -Frank Chance
"If [Ruth] had [called his shot], I would have knocked him down with the next pitch." -Charlie Root
A rare event.
Thanks for looking that up. I love stats, just dont like looking them up. I wouldnt mind seeing him have shorter outings if he can get outs like that. He gets alot of SO but also throws alot of pitches between that and his walks.
"Baseball is ninety percent mental. The other half is physical." -Yogi Berra
Castro being benched was one of the more stupid things I’ve ever seen.
Yes, lets’ bench our best player because he made a mistake. Oh wait, he’s twenty years old and the youngest in the major leagues. Can’t you just pull him aside? Ridiculous.
They have just pulled him aside during the entire season when he has made
mental errors and that hasn’t translated many times to him stopping them. It was very much time to me to say without lambasting him, you need to keep your head in the game…and by sitting him a game it has a chance of lasting a lot longer than just saying once again, think about what you are doing. He’s made plenty of mistakes and I think this is a good way for him to learn. It wasn’t nasty or vindictive, just a more important reminder than saying stop once again…the effectiveness of that from Lou was zero.
Starlin Castro singles on a pop up to catcher Jason LaRue.
Ryan Theriot scores. Two out -Gameday 7/23/10
by Sandberg's evil twin on Sep 6, 2010 5:43 PM CDT up reply actions 5 recs
Well said.
A lovely story:
One day, long, long ago, there lived a woman who didn't whine, nag or bitch. That would be me....
But that was a long time ago and it was just that one day.
The end
Well said
I didn't believe it last August, but it turns out that love survives.
Mount Washington conquered July 5, 2010! State high point count: 3/50
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Sep 6, 2010 7:10 PM CDT up reply actions
His Ofer yesterday probably didn't help
"Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have?" -Frank Chance
"If [Ruth] had [called his shot], I would have knocked him down with the next pitch." -Charlie Root
One of the more stupid things you've ever seen?
You must be the smartest 2 day old baby in the world.
If a quality pitching start is 3 runs and 6 innings, then a quality hitting day is 1 for 4.
by tharr on Sep 6, 2010 9:49 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
this was such a blatantly clear error
that failing to do something would’ve been a bigger sin, IMO. For troutfishin arguing that nothing should be done to Castro, I’d argue that, if they let Castro get away with that, that sends a message that he’s bulletproof.
Folks, let’s really not make a huge deal out of this. Plenty of players get called out for blatantly clear situations, like what Castro did.
What an enjoyable game to watch on a rainy day.
Geo’s the man. Cubs even had some good D today. And they won a one run game, how about that. Only 8 home games left, wow.
ok
a) this team sucks ass and, b) he’s 20 fing years old.
let me say that again: “he’s twenty years old”
he’s a twenty year old who made a mental mistake
Ryan Theriot is 45 years old and mad mistakes all the time
I can imagine Quade: “Go sit down Starlin, I don’t like guys hitting .317 as a twenty year old, you made a mental mistake so you have to sit down.” Nobody can justify that.
You need to adjust your attitude here.
Not only are you wrong, you’re being snarky for no reason.
Watch your attitude.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
How am i wrong? Saying your benching your best player for making a mental mistake is ridiculously dumb.
you also mis-spelled "made" as mad
good to see you make less errors than Starlin. :-)
BTW, you are wrong. BA isn’t everything. Castro has great talent but it is important for the Cubs to reign in the mental problems. We don’t need a talented SS with the baseball smarts of Onedec.
Carlos Silva lemonade: made from freshly squeezed Milton Bradley lemons. -- the Jim Hendry kook book.
my point was
that he has played alot and could have used a day to refresh anyway. and he probably doesnt have a problem with it. you think this is the first time he has been told to sit for a game?
"Baseball is ninety percent mental. The other half is physical." -Yogi Berra
You are incorrect.
Look up in this thread for the reason why.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
Your benching the best Cubs position player in almost a decade and it’s okay with you guys.
HE’S TWENTY YEARS OLD. HE’S TWENTY YEARS OLD.
How is he learning from sitting on the bench. So because benching for making a mental mistake, he won’t repeat it? If anything he’ll probably be afraid to make a mistake.
Your basically saying, “Starlin if you make that mistake again your going to the bench.” To a young player that would make me scared and afraid to make a mistake. It’s ridiculous benching a 20 year old because of a stupid mental mistake.
20 years old is all the reason
to get his act straight now, not to be like Soriano when he is 34 years old and watch balls out of the box when they hit off the wall.
What is wrong with some freaking discipline once in awhile. The whole world is soft anymore. Sit his ass, explain what is right and what is wrong, PERIOD
I will bet that if you ask Castro, he will say he should be benched again
if he made a brain fart like he did on first base (in the future).
Castro is a young man with a lot of character.
Why are you so against disciplining mental errors??
Carlos Silva lemonade: made from freshly squeezed Milton Bradley lemons. -- the Jim Hendry kook book.
Everyone learns a different way
Sometimes SEEING something is a good change from the tactical approach.
He’s played in 104 of a possible 106 games. Seriously, 20 years old or not, a day off is NOT the end of the damn world.
Nobody who ever gave his best regretted it. -George Halas
I’m not upset about the day off, I’m upset about the way the Cubs handled it. Why not just say “he needs a day off”, instead of spewing some b.s. about a mental mistake made by a twenty year old. Just say he needs a day off, that would have been fine.
Meh
I can’t get worked up by PR telling the truth. Reminding everyone that defense is important is a good thing.
It worked on Barney & Coleman too, when they covered 3rd to keep Bourn on 2nd. Something I remember Castro forgetting to do the other day.
Nobody who ever gave his best regretted it. -George Halas
I guess, but it’s ridiculous why the Cubs PR would say he’s being benched because of a mental mistake. Why not say “Starlin has played a lot of games, we think it would be good if he got a day off.”
This really is one of the worst run organizations in sports. It’s a joke.
Jesus no kidding.
A lovely story:
One day, long, long ago, there lived a woman who didn't whine, nag or bitch. That would be me....
But that was a long time ago and it was just that one day.
The end
Yeah, sorry for being angry for the benching of the Cubs best player, who by the way is the youngest player in the majors. Nothing to be mad about.
by Bad Midget on Sep 6, 2010 6:36 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
You're also VERY hung up on age.
Why does the fact that he’s the “youngest in the majors” matter so damn much?
Nobody who ever gave his best regretted it. -George Halas
Because young players do a bunch of that shit. They’re young and dumb. You don’t bench a 20 year old because he did what a 20 year old does.
by Bad Midget on Sep 6, 2010 6:43 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
Why not?
because its outrageous to you?
It feels very straight forward to everyone else.
Nobody who ever gave his best regretted it. -George Halas
I don’t know. As a twenty year old being told your being benched because of stupid mental mistake is ridiculous and would make me mad.
Bet it will make
him stop and think next time. Lesson learned.
A lovely story:
One day, long, long ago, there lived a woman who didn't whine, nag or bitch. That would be me....
But that was a long time ago and it was just that one day.
The end
Indeed.
I hardly think it will make him “afraid” to keep track of the number of outs and what base he needs to cover between pitches.
Starlin Castro singles on a pop up to catcher Jason LaRue.
Ryan Theriot scores. Two out -Gameday 7/23/10
by Sandberg's evil twin on Sep 6, 2010 7:01 PM CDT up reply actions
Still, the premise of benching him I just can’t grasp. I don’t get why he has to be benched because of one mistake.
It wasn't one mistake.
It was a number of mental errors over the course of the season that led up to this.
Starlin Castro singles on a pop up to catcher Jason LaRue.
Ryan Theriot scores. Two out -Gameday 7/23/10
by Sandberg's evil twin on Sep 6, 2010 7:07 PM CDT up reply actions
I get what you guys are trying to say. I just don’t get the benching part. You do that to a veteran, not your twenty year old short stop. I get about teaching him a lesson, but you just don’t bench him.
maddon benches uptons ass all the time for an idiot
same thing with kemp
by jesus christos on Sep 6, 2010 7:11 PM CDT up reply actions
Imagine his behavior
if he hadn’t been benched or disciplined. You enable him by “talking to him” about that stuff instead and you can expect it would happen even more often.
Starlin Castro singles on a pop up to catcher Jason LaRue.
Ryan Theriot scores. Two out -Gameday 7/23/10
by Sandberg's evil twin on Sep 6, 2010 7:15 PM CDT up reply actions
how else do you discipline him
fine him? I’m sure they have already inside the clubhouse, there’s no justification for an organizational fine.
I love Castro, but he’s young and you need to send a message now. He’ll be fine – he’s a good student who works hard at improving. I think this is far more good than bad.
How is a lesson being learned?
Aramis Ramierez is one of the laziest major league players I’ve ever seen and he hasn’t gotten benched. Castro gets benched for a common mistake (did i mention he’s 20) and Ramierez is lazy and never gets benched.
It sets a terrible example.
How many times do people here have to tell you that you're wrong before you understand?
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
WHAT? You keep saying that.
I’ve heard no reason why it’s acceptable for Starlin Castro to be benched but Aramis Ramierez not to be. None at all.
People, he’s twenty years old, he’ll learn. Aramis is over 30 and hasn’t.
Yet Quade isn’t sending a message to him.
And how will he learn...
by having it reinforced not to do it through negative consequences…like being benched.
The fact that he’s 20 is even better. Teach him while younger so it sticks.
First of all, you can learn to spell "Ramirez" properly.
This is a way for a manager to help teach a rookie proper ways of being in the major leagues; it appears that Castro may have been starting to take his position for granted and not focusing and paying attention to major league situations.
It has nothing to do with Aramis Ramirez, who has been a productive major league veteran for a decade.
I’d suggest you drop this issue now, because all you are doing is pissing everyone here, including me, off.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
Aramis has everything to do with this.
Numerous people have stated this is “teaching” a lesson. Guess what? Aramis is lazy all the time and is never benched.
Aramis has nothing to do with this.
Period.
I think you need to step away from the computer.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
You still
haven’t answered my question.
Why can Aramis be lazy and not get benched, but Starlin make a mental mistake (did I mention he’s 20 years old) and get bench?
In no way, shape, or form is that justifiable.
Name a specific incident where...
… Aramis Ramirez has been “lazy” and cost his team an out and should have been benched.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
He doesn’t get in front of ground balls. Bob Brenly calls him out all the time for it. He’s afraid to get in front of ground balls, he’s been called out for his hustle numerous times by Brenly
When your own broadcaster is calling you out, yeah, I’d say your costing your team runs.
You have failed.
I asked you for a specific incident, comparable to Castro’s yesterday. You failed. I’m done arguing with you.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
It was Lou’s last game as a manager and there was a ground ball hit to him, Aramis obviously didn’t try to get in front ofit. Bob Brenly said he wondered if Aramis would ever get in front of a ground ball ever again.
by Bad Midget on Sep 6, 2010 10:30 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
HA
no, not at all
Quade: "Rami I saw you loafing down the line for the 5000th time your going to get benched.
That actually makes sense.
Right, that would make sense
But this moment is about Castro. Castro screwed up, Castro gets the lesson.
Rami is a separate issue entirely.
All he's doing is trolling.
Really, we should stop responding.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
Hey, guess what!
Ramirez didn’t play today either. Now, management may have been trying to send a message to him or he may have pulled a quad while running to 1B yesterday. Or, as you would have it, loafing.
Either way, he hasn’t seen a play in the field since.
"Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have?" -Frank Chance
"If [Ruth] had [called his shot], I would have knocked him down with the next pitch." -Charlie Root
Show me a situation
where Aramis made as blatantly stupid of a move under Quade’s watch. Troutfishin’s “diving for balls” isn’t as bad. I really don’t recall anything as blatantly stupid, showing a lack of focus, from Aramis under Quade’s watch.
I'm really sorry
that you don’t understand. Quade did the right thing. It’s over and you need to move on. All the whining in the world will not change the fact.
A lovely story:
One day, long, long ago, there lived a woman who didn't whine, nag or bitch. That would be me....
But that was a long time ago and it was just that one day.
The end
Actually,
To me the big thing you are missing here is that he is 20. You can reach a rookie with an easy example. Much more difficult to reach a vet who thinks they know everything, and should by the number of years they have played. There’s a lot more potential a rookie will benefit from it.
Starlin Castro singles on a pop up to catcher Jason LaRue.
Ryan Theriot scores. Two out -Gameday 7/23/10
by Sandberg's evil twin on Sep 6, 2010 9:58 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Exactly what I was thinking.
Better to teach him now when he’s only 20 before he gets into bad habits.
"Fasten those seatbelts!"-Pat Hughes
So you'd rather Cubs PR lied to you?
are you saying lying to the media and fans is a sign of a well-run organization?
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
Yes, I would rather have them lie. I would rather have them say “he sat because he needed a day off.” The mental mistake part is dumb.
I agree with the benching of Castro...
…but, I don’t think Quade shoulda ran it through the media. Whatever happened to “what happens in the clubhouse, stays in the clubhouse”? It’s nobody’s business but the organization’s. Quade is doing a real good job, but, he handled that wrong.
Joe Girardi...2011 Chicago Cubs Manager...Book it!!
Adam Dunn..2011 Chicago Cubs First Baseman - 3 yrs/$42 mill with a club option for a 4th.
because he made a mental mistake
that was plain and day and not calling him out for it would’ve likely sent a worse message in the clubhouse.
Add to that Castro is indeed young.
Young players and people in general appreciate clarity. A vet would know the reason, but Castro may not have. I agree with you completely that a tactical approach is not always the right approach, and besides, that was tried many times during the season. Finally now he has a clear message to learn from. If he needed Quade to disguise this in the media he’s in the wrong business. He didn’t say anything sarcastic or personal. Just take a break and think about it.
Starlin Castro singles on a pop up to catcher Jason LaRue.
Ryan Theriot scores. Two out -Gameday 7/23/10
by Sandberg's evil twin on Sep 6, 2010 6:21 PM CDT up reply actions
I hate to interrupt your argument with yourself...
… and I know this goes against the DFTT rule, but…
The fact that he is 20 years old is exactly why you sit him down. You don’t scold him, but you do remind him of the right way to play the game.
Castro has rocketed up through the minors, everybody telling him he is great. I am happy to see that the Cubs aren’t afraid to sit him down.
I think I speak for everyone here when I say, "Wait, what the hell are you talking about?"
by Ross on Sep 6, 2010 6:24 PM CDT up reply actions 2 recs
Yes.
It’s the right message and done early. The opposite of the horrible repeated enabling of Zambrano and to a degree Theriot. When you say stop over and over after bad behavior yet do nothing besides talk you just create a player who knows there are no consequences from repeating your mistakes.
Starlin Castro singles on a pop up to catcher Jason LaRue.
Ryan Theriot scores. Two out -Gameday 7/23/10
by Sandberg's evil twin on Sep 6, 2010 6:26 PM CDT up reply actions
Whatever. I guess it’s okay to bench a twenty year old because he made a common mental mistake. He’s the youngest player in the majors.
How does this help his moral:
Quade: ‘Starlin, that was one bat shit dumb play, don’t do that ever again, I’m benching you now, if you make that mistake I’ll do it again.
How is that teaching, THE YOUNGEST PLAYER IN BASEBALL, a lesson, how is that teaching? That would make me scared to make an error.
Why?
There’s a difference between physical errors and mental errors. All Quade’s asking is that he keep his head in the game.
Yeah, you don’t bench him. for that. Fine, tell him to keep his head in the game, but don’t bench him, that’s outrageous.
Aramis Ramierez is one of the laziest players in the majors and never gets benched because of it.
There certainly have been a lot of players on this team
this year that should have been disciplined for mental errors like Theriot and some physical ones. But Quade can only do what is in front of him. I’m just glad finally there’s a manager here that is holding someone accountable. While the method you use perhaps should be different with youngsters and vets, indeed lazy play has been let go during this season and last, and Lou should have done a lot more than he did.
Starlin Castro singles on a pop up to catcher Jason LaRue.
Ryan Theriot scores. Two out -Gameday 7/23/10
by Sandberg's evil twin on Sep 6, 2010 6:35 PM CDT up reply actions
Yes, and in fact
That’s exactly why this move is a good thing. Letting stuff go repeatedly just tells them to keep doing it. Which is why you get players jogging to first, screaming and throwing fits and repeating it. You have to actually do something about it for that behavior to change. Lee was lazy a lot during the year jogging to first during potential double plays. There’s a lot of things that should have been dealt with before. Have to start somewhere.
Starlin Castro singles on a pop up to catcher Jason LaRue.
Ryan Theriot scores. Two out -Gameday 7/23/10
by Sandberg's evil twin on Sep 6, 2010 6:42 PM CDT up reply actions
You may be right.
There is less to be gained usually from benching vets as they don’t listen as well. But if one does something this glaring as Castro did, and has before like Theriot, I’d hope he would sit said vet. Dunno if it would happen until it occured.
Starlin Castro singles on a pop up to catcher Jason LaRue.
Ryan Theriot scores. Two out -Gameday 7/23/10
by Sandberg's evil twin on Sep 6, 2010 6:50 PM CDT up reply actions
It's teaching him there is a consequence
for repeating mental mistakes and not knowing the game situation.
Starlin Castro singles on a pop up to catcher Jason LaRue.
Ryan Theriot scores. Two out -Gameday 7/23/10
by Sandberg's evil twin on Sep 6, 2010 6:32 PM CDT up reply actions
Do you know for a fact that
Quade said those exact words to Castro? You don’t. Quit making crap up when you have no idea what Quade’s exact words were.
A lovely story:
One day, long, long ago, there lived a woman who didn't whine, nag or bitch. That would be me....
But that was a long time ago and it was just that one day.
The end
OH, i see
Of course how am I supposed to know what he says? I’m guessing he said something like that? I’m not making crap up. Thanks for the insult, though.
Yes you are making crap up.
Until you know what Quade did say to him stop putting words in his mouth. I didn’t insult you.
A lovely story:
One day, long, long ago, there lived a woman who didn't whine, nag or bitch. That would be me....
But that was a long time ago and it was just that one day.
The end
I’m not making crap up at all. It’s called inferring, something I learned in 4th grade english class. You can infer Quade said something like that. Obviously my quote was hyperbole.
It just makes
it more drama queen like.
A lovely story:
One day, long, long ago, there lived a woman who didn't whine, nag or bitch. That would be me....
But that was a long time ago and it was just that one day.
The end
Your= You're
I learned that in 4th grade.
A lovely story:
One day, long, long ago, there lived a woman who didn't whine, nag or bitch. That would be me....
But that was a long time ago and it was just that one day.
The end
I love that I don’t even insult you and you feel the need to point out a stupid grammar mistake. Are you that insecure with yourself?
I took your comment
about inferring was something that you learned in 4th grade as an insult. Get over yourself.
A lovely story:
One day, long, long ago, there lived a woman who didn't whine, nag or bitch. That would be me....
But that was a long time ago and it was just that one day.
The end
You call me out for saying i make up crap and i respond, then you call out my grammar, your the one insulting me.
Oh the drama.
A lovely story:
One day, long, long ago, there lived a woman who didn't whine, nag or bitch. That would be me....
But that was a long time ago and it was just that one day.
The end
And you're still making things up.
What else is new?
I didn't believe it last August, but it turns out that love survives.
Mount Washington conquered July 5, 2010! State high point count: 3/50
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Sep 6, 2010 7:31 PM CDT up reply actions
She's not insulting you.
She replied initially to your negative comments about the Cubs benching Castro, and then you got extremely defensive and began accusing her of being insulting while it was you who was actually insulting others.
I didn't believe it last August, but it turns out that love survives.
Mount Washington conquered July 5, 2010! State high point count: 3/50
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Sep 6, 2010 7:35 PM CDT up reply actions
First
I love the “negative comments”, no, I was upset about the benching of a twenty year old for having a mental mistake, that’s all bias right there.
Second, she called me out for making crap up, which was a ridiculous statement. I don’t care if someone insults me, I do it all the time.
But when someone calls me out for making crap up, yeah that gets me mad.
Okay, so...
When was the last time you saw someone step off a base and get tagged out?
If that’s not a mental mistake that requires benching, I don’t know what is.
Also, have you actually watched the number of close throws Castro has made? A lot of them are closer than what a ML-level shortstop would make. Whether that’s due to Castro being rushed through the minors or not, it will take time for him to develop his game.
Just give him time. It’s like asking a 20-year-old college player to play as a full-time starter on the San Diego Chargers. There’s a transition to the major leagues that can’t be taught.
Castro will learn. He just needs time.
I didn't believe it last August, but it turns out that love survives.
Mount Washington conquered July 5, 2010! State high point count: 3/50
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Sep 6, 2010 7:43 PM CDT up reply actions
And did I forget to mention
That Castro has played in 104 of 106 games? That’s gotta require a steep learning curve, and he’s done well.
Seriously, I don’t know why him having a day off gets people this worked up.
I didn't believe it last August, but it turns out that love survives.
Mount Washington conquered July 5, 2010! State high point count: 3/50
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Sep 6, 2010 7:46 PM CDT up reply actions
He/she does that quite often.
"Fasten those seatbelts!"-Pat Hughes
by katie casey on Sep 7, 2010 8:18 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
boo hoo
A lovely story:
One day, long, long ago, there lived a woman who didn't whine, nag or bitch. That would be me....
But that was a long time ago and it was just that one day.
The end
Okay, let me see if I get this straight.
It’s okay for you to use the 4th grade English class example, but not her?
And you want to talk to her about being classy?
Get over yourself.
I didn't believe it last August, but it turns out that love survives.
Mount Washington conquered July 5, 2010! State high point count: 3/50
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Sep 6, 2010 7:24 PM CDT up reply actions
Your 'librarian'?
I have no idea what you’re (not your) saying. And I’m not on your (not you’re) side.
Frankly, I think the Castro argument isn’t worth getting worked up over. It’s no big deal. Jim Riggleman once benched Sammy Sosa, in a season when the guy hit 36 home runs.
Castro will get it over it. So will the Cubs.
Quade spent a number of years as a minor league manager.
I’d give him the benefit of the doubt at keeping an even keel with a young player. He doesn’t have the pride of a manager like Lou or LaRussa that thinks the rookies should be seen and not heard…or would swear and insult them because they dared question something he said.
Starlin Castro singles on a pop up to catcher Jason LaRue.
Ryan Theriot scores. Two out -Gameday 7/23/10
by Sandberg's evil twin on Sep 6, 2010 7:22 PM CDT up reply actions
Losing track of outs is "a common mental mistake?"
Wow… is forgetting how many outs there are and wandering off of the base is OK in your book? That’s crazy. Baseball is a pretty simple game, but much of it is built around situations. You need to be aware of the situation. He wasn’t and he is getting lightly “punished” for it. I am pretty sure that he won’t make this “common mental mistake” again.
I think I speak for everyone here when I say, "Wait, what the hell are you talking about?"
Please, please, please.
Take note of the difference between “your” and “you’re.”
Yep - he's 20. A good age to learn a lesson before he winds up as a career dogger
Like another player on the roster.
Since Quade never said that
he has no reason to justify your imagination.
If a quality pitching start is 3 runs and 6 innings, then a quality hitting day is 1 for 4.
I've supported you on other stuff
but I think you are completely off here. Castro is the future, but you can’t let an organization become beholden to one player. Furthermore, this was a ridiculously blatant and clear mistake. You simply can’t let those situations go … otherwise you risk the clubhouse questioning your leadership.
well, beyond your hyperbole here,
Theriot is no longer on the team so Quade has no chance to do anything about it. But when he was yes Lou should have sat him for his mistakes and said so. Quade didn’t sit him at the middle or the beginning of the season, he saw a behavior that was repeated numerous times during the season and took action with a clear voice without being vindictive. I see nothing to be outraged about at all.
Starlin Castro singles on a pop up to catcher Jason LaRue.
Ryan Theriot scores. Two out -Gameday 7/23/10
by Sandberg's evil twin on Sep 6, 2010 5:54 PM CDT up reply actions
castro
Is just being hazed by quade since it wasn’t allowed earlier this year …..kidding
People laying down and sleeping in the bleachers can’t be good for business.
by cozmotaylor123 on Sep 6, 2010 6:06 PM CDT via mobile reply actions
I have no problem with
Quade sitting Starlin today. It’s a good learning experience for him.
Geo was fantastic today. Glad he came back strong this year.
A lovely story:
One day, long, long ago, there lived a woman who didn't whine, nag or bitch. That would be me....
But that was a long time ago and it was just that one day.
The end
Al on TV
Al, were you wearing a blue cubs shirt today? If so, you might have gotten some camera time just after the Soto homer.
I think I speak for everyone here when I say, "Wait, what the hell are you talking about?"
Actually it's only one or two
who are being drama queens about this.
A lovely story:
One day, long, long ago, there lived a woman who didn't whine, nag or bitch. That would be me....
But that was a long time ago and it was just that one day.
The end
Yeah I bet if you ask St. Louis fans
they would agree with you. Looking at VEB the other day when they lost and Rasmus was sat for bogus reasons, most everyone there was calling for TLR to be retired. I doubt there would have been quite as much outrage if LaRussa had simply said I am angry at Colby for saying he doesn’t like playing for the team. This is discipline for that. Everyone knew LaRussa was lying about his injured status. Whether that was right or wrong, at least there’s a clear reason for sitting him while the team loses. Course TLR is a lawyer so perhaps you should expect he will baffle you with half truths…he almost never is forthright with injuries.
Starlin Castro singles on a pop up to catcher Jason LaRue.
Ryan Theriot scores. Two out -Gameday 7/23/10
by Sandberg's evil twin on Sep 6, 2010 6:48 PM CDT up reply actions
There's really only one person going off about this here.
I didn't believe it last August, but it turns out that love survives.
Mount Washington conquered July 5, 2010! State high point count: 3/50
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Sep 6, 2010 7:21 PM CDT up reply actions
Is the pressure of winning in Des Moines too much for the I-Cubs?
If so, then Ryno will definitely fit in as the Cubs Manager
I was sorry to see them missing the playoffs.
But to me it’s hard to say if pressure had anything to do with it or whether instead the problem was they lost most of their best players to the majors. Given the Cubs have a team for awhile now loaded with young rookies I’d think that was a factor.
Starlin Castro singles on a pop up to catcher Jason LaRue.
Ryan Theriot scores. Two out -Gameday 7/23/10
by Sandberg's evil twin on Sep 6, 2010 7:18 PM CDT up reply actions
It was sarcasm
The only pressure you feel in Iowa is the government not wanting you to move out of the state
That is my thinking too.
A lovely story:
One day, long, long ago, there lived a woman who didn't whine, nag or bitch. That would be me....
But that was a long time ago and it was just that one day.
The end
However, on a side note
The main argument that was put forth for not prompting Ryno was because he had a chance to take the I-Cubs to the playoffs. Since we ended up pulling a quarter of the team to Chicago, didn’t we just ruin his chances anyway and should’ve just called him up anyway?
I don't think that was the reason
Sandberg hadn’t spent the year in Chicago and would have had a longer adjustment period than Quade. Plus, putting him in as interm would have probably forced Hendry to make him the permanent manager in 2011 or go into witness protection to avoid enraged Cubs fans.
Actually
if anything Ryno goofed big time yesterday. There’s a time and place for showing emotion and firing up your troops. Getting kicked out of the game that early yesterday was not the time. The staff there is solid, but Ryno should’ve known better than to even risk a situation as such.
Where is the love?
Starlin Castro singles on a pop up to catcher Jason LaRue.
Ryan Theriot scores. Two out -Gameday 7/23/10
by Sandberg's evil twin on Sep 6, 2010 7:29 PM CDT up reply actions
Pepsi for everyone!
Starlin Castro singles on a pop up to catcher Jason LaRue.
Ryan Theriot scores. Two out -Gameday 7/23/10
by Sandberg's evil twin on Sep 6, 2010 9:54 PM CDT up reply actions
This is where BCB loses me.
Starlin Castro will get over being benched for a game. The Cubs won. And even if they hadn’t, the Cubs are 18 games under .500.
This isn’t worth our time to debate. The end.
by elgato on Sep 6, 2010 7:30 PM CDT reply actions 1 recs
Elgato...the new BCB Barney.
You have too much reason here lol
Reminds me of Stever Carrell on the Office saying “hug it out bitch”.
Though he was smart enough to say it isn’t effective with women.
Starlin Castro singles on a pop up to catcher Jason LaRue.
Ryan Theriot scores. Two out -Gameday 7/23/10
by Sandberg's evil twin on Sep 6, 2010 7:32 PM CDT up reply actions
Funny thing is, I argue constantly around here. Ask Al.
But, in the past few weeks, a lot of the argument have seemed really trivial.
Oh I know.
Perhaps that’s why it made me laugh. And this is indeed trivial. It became an attention match and you correctly saw stepping away is the only way to end it.
Starlin Castro singles on a pop up to catcher Jason LaRue.
Ryan Theriot scores. Two out -Gameday 7/23/10
by Sandberg's evil twin on Sep 6, 2010 7:38 PM CDT up reply actions
with lou, lee, and theriot gone and the team playing something that resembles baseball
we have little to complain about
by jesus christos on Sep 6, 2010 7:38 PM CDT up reply actions
Well, right.
And the stakes are really low because the next few weeks are pretty meaningless.
Most of the arguments have been nice discussions, to be honest.
The one above is an unnecessary ego festival.
I didn't believe it last August, but it turns out that love survives.
Mount Washington conquered July 5, 2010! State high point count: 3/50
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Sep 6, 2010 7:39 PM CDT up reply actions
Where's Worf when you need him.
Starlin Castro singles on a pop up to catcher Jason LaRue.
Ryan Theriot scores. Two out -Gameday 7/23/10
by Sandberg's evil twin on Sep 6, 2010 7:40 PM CDT up reply actions
Oh, the peanut argument was far from nice.
And it lasted like half a day, VCF!
I think I inhaled some dust from that one.
Starlin Castro singles on a pop up to catcher Jason LaRue.
Ryan Theriot scores. Two out -Gameday 7/23/10
by Sandberg's evil twin on Sep 6, 2010 7:41 PM CDT up reply actions
Honestly, Twin ...
I thought that debate was a parody of BCB! I wondered, while reading it, if Al and some others collaborated on it.
Dunno
But him deleting parts of the thread suggests he wasn’t. The quality of the humor in insults was lacking to my taste. Gotta come up with something funnier than what was there.
Starlin Castro singles on a pop up to catcher Jason LaRue.
Ryan Theriot scores. Two out -Gameday 7/23/10
by Sandberg's evil twin on Sep 6, 2010 7:45 PM CDT up reply actions
A lot of my comments were not in jest at all.
And yet Al deleted them anyway, along with many others from SWL, Gibbon Jockey, et al.
I didn't believe it last August, but it turns out that love survives.
Mount Washington conquered July 5, 2010! State high point count: 3/50
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Sep 6, 2010 7:48 PM CDT up reply actions
I know they weren't in jest.
I’m not trying to get into an argument with YOU about peanuts, VCF. I’m just saying that things haven’t been as civil as you implied earlier.
Oh I know they haven't.
The thread fight above, however, might be the worst in a while.
I didn't believe it last August, but it turns out that love survives.
Mount Washington conquered July 5, 2010! State high point count: 3/50
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Sep 6, 2010 7:56 PM CDT up reply actions
Oh man, that was great.
I wonder if Gibbon Jockey is using that graphic SWL provided.
I didn't believe it last August, but it turns out that love survives.
Mount Washington conquered July 5, 2010! State high point count: 3/50
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Sep 6, 2010 7:44 PM CDT up reply actions
I saw it in my email.
Wasn’t bad. Probably would have been acceptable in a game thread.
Starlin Castro singles on a pop up to catcher Jason LaRue.
Ryan Theriot scores. Two out -Gameday 7/23/10
by Sandberg's evil twin on Sep 6, 2010 7:45 PM CDT up reply actions
He showed the graphics to me
Before he emailed them to you two.
I didn't believe it last August, but it turns out that love survives.
Mount Washington conquered July 5, 2010! State high point count: 3/50
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Sep 6, 2010 7:50 PM CDT up reply actions
Teacher's Pet. :P
Starlin Castro singles on a pop up to catcher Jason LaRue.
Ryan Theriot scores. Two out -Gameday 7/23/10
by Sandberg's evil twin on Sep 6, 2010 8:46 PM CDT up reply actions
You may argue,
but I’ve never seen you cross the line. I think you have a kind way of stating your case that doesn’t insult others. If you have, maybe Al has deleted those comments before I read them :), but I kinda doubt it. Stay classy, elgato.
"Fasten those seatbelts!"-Pat Hughes
Thanks, Katie. Very nice of you to say that.
You stay classy, too.
I'll try.
Just wanted you to know that I like reading your posts. Even when I disagree with them I find them insightful rather than inciting.
"Fasten those seatbelts!"-Pat Hughes
While elgato and I don't always agree....
… he’s always classy here and I always enjoy discussing different Cubs related issues with him.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
Wow. Thanks, Al.
You guys are giving me a big head. :)
I completely agree with Quade for sitting Castro....maybe if Lou had done this following his other mental (not physical) gaffs it may have helped earlier....
That said…..
We have watched Soriano, Lee, especially ARam, and others jog out grounders, give half hearted attempts in the field and make mental errors and nothing happened.
I am aware Lee was not on Quade’s watch…..
But many times since he has taken over there have been questionable hustling by the ususal players and Quade has done nothing. Why is this?
Hopefully our manager next year will have the same rules for all the players all the time
in spite of how much money they make or how long they have been playing. Those older players should know better anyways.
Right now on this team, Castro makes a boneheaded play, (and it was a doozy) and he sits. Aram and Sori can jog out a grounder for the 50th time this season and they can play. I would think that would be confusing to a young player.
The message seems to be……Hang around for a while, kid, then you can loaf!
Quade has managed what, a dozen games?
Maybe he’s just now getting comfortable in his role. I’m sure being the manager of any MLB club is intimidating, and especially for a big market team like the Cubs. Very few organizations, sports or otherwise, get a new leader who instantly rules with an iron fist, even if it’s appropriate/
Remember, he’s auditioning for next year. I’m sure Aram waltzing down the line drives him bonkers. If I were in his shoes I would definitely feel like I was walking on eggshells.
I would have sat ARam the first time he did that on my watch....
He has seen this crap for 4 years. He is not new to the Cubs.
Yes, but if the clubhouse turns on him, his chances of being back next year are nil
It’s easy to armchair from a distance, but he has to balance his desire to win/teach now with his desire to do it for the next 3+ years with the Cubs
Indeed.
He doesn’t have the weight (pun perhaps intended) of a veteran manager nor the entire season to reach a vet loafing. ARam should have been sat by now I think for being lazy as Lee could have, but reaching a guy in the league that long by an interim manager is dubious. Much easier to reach a rookie playing his first year, and especially something so blatant. It was a simple thing to address and correct with a rookie. Benching Rami…if it’s blatant again it probably should be addressed but I doubt is going to work, especially if you get into a war with all your players.
Starlin Castro singles on a pop up to catcher Jason LaRue.
Ryan Theriot scores. Two out -Gameday 7/23/10
by Sandberg's evil twin on Sep 6, 2010 9:47 PM CDT up reply actions
Yeah...
It’s not an easy situation for Quade. It was Lou that allowed his vets and entire team to play lazy and make mental mistakes the entire season with little to no consequence. Worrying about it with the season almost over is debateable whether it means much with a vet…but I hope he does when he sees something glaring like he did with Castro, especially a player who has done it before.
Starlin Castro singles on a pop up to catcher Jason LaRue.
Ryan Theriot scores. Two out -Gameday 7/23/10
by Sandberg's evil twin on Sep 6, 2010 8:49 PM CDT up reply actions
Are you admitting Lou wasn't an amazing manager?
Starlin Castro singles on a pop up to catcher Jason LaRue.
Ryan Theriot scores. Two out -Gameday 7/23/10
by Sandberg's evil twin on Sep 6, 2010 8:55 PM CDT up reply actions
I may joke around about quite a bit, but you may have noticed I don't about the hustling stuff....
Lou and Dusty before him did a terrible job at making the players accountable for their loafing.
Both were rather amazing at this aspect of their jobs!
Indeed.
Which is why Quade has such a hard job accomplishing anything now at the end of the season with vets used to being coddled. It’s a little different a situation than Hanley with the remaining vets, but equal to that situation in reference to Quade’s ability to affect a Soriano, Ramirez.
Starlin Castro singles on a pop up to catcher Jason LaRue.
Ryan Theriot scores. Two out -Gameday 7/23/10
by Sandberg's evil twin on Sep 6, 2010 9:03 PM CDT up reply actions
Benching Castro was the right thing to do
I think Quade did the right thing by benching Castro. I also agree with the others that say that he should be consistent and do the same thing to a few veterans who are guilty of the same thing. Maybe someone else can answer this question, but do you think this might be because some of those other guys who loaf have high salaries and management doesn’t want them sitting on the bench? I don’t agree with that, but I think that money does have something to do with it now. Billy Martin had no problem taking Reggie Jackson out of a game in 1977. I don’t know if that would happen today with a player. You look at Florida and what Fredi Gonzalez tried to do with Hanley Ramirez. The Marlins fire Gonzalez. Granted, it IS the Marlins. But still, Hanley Ramirez is THE “face of the franchise.” They can’t trade him. He wasn’t given a lengthy suspension by the team. Reggie Jackson was ordered to bunt by Billy Martin in 1978, refused, and was suspended for a week by the Yankees. I can’t imagine that happening today.
I will give Quade this-he showed some leadership by showing a young player that lackadaisical behavior will not be tolerated. Jim Riggleman could learn from this in dealing with Nyjer Morgan.
MLB did that for him
Riggleman did bench Morgan the day after Morgan gave Anderson that love tap.
"Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have?" -Frank Chance
"If [Ruth] had [called his shot], I would have knocked him down with the next pitch." -Charlie Root
Jim needs to start with holding Listach accountable for his actions.
He can’t control his bench coaches, not surprising he’s not dealing with his headcase players.
Starlin Castro singles on a pop up to catcher Jason LaRue.
Ryan Theriot scores. Two out -Gameday 7/23/10
by Sandberg's evil twin on Sep 6, 2010 8:58 PM CDT up reply actions
I think Listach lost control because
It probably looked like six guys beating on Nyger Morgan from his POV.
"I'd rather hit home runs you don't have to run as hard." -- Dave Kingman
by BucknerKongCardenal on Sep 6, 2010 10:13 PM CDT up reply actions
Listach's comments were that he was trying to protect his guy
I’ve mentioned it elsewhere that that’s exactly what he appeared to be doing. He tackled Volstad and held him down, but he didn’t throw a punch, even as Volstad was clawing at his face.
"Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have?" -Frank Chance
"If [Ruth] had [called his shot], I would have knocked him down with the next pitch." -Charlie Root
What?
I’ll look at that footage again but I saw Listach on top of Volstad swinging at him. I cannot see how you saw him not throw a punch.
Starlin Castro singles on a pop up to catcher Jason LaRue.
Ryan Theriot scores. Two out -Gameday 7/23/10
by Sandberg's evil twin on Sep 6, 2010 10:18 PM CDT up reply actions
Be my guest
http://florida.marlins.mlb.com/video/play.jsp?content_id=11615635&topic_id=8878534&c_id=fla
Slow-mo replay starts around 1:34
I see him falling on Volstad, preventing his further pummeling of Morgan.
"Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have?" -Frank Chance
"If [Ruth] had [called his shot], I would have knocked him down with the next pitch." -Charlie Root
It's one thing to jump in as a coach and protect your player.
He wouldn’t have been fined for doing that. But he jumped on the pitcher and wouldn’t stop pounding him in the dirt. Coaches are supposed to be above that. To try to bring a brawl under control rather than escalate it.
Starlin Castro singles on a pop up to catcher Jason LaRue.
Ryan Theriot scores. Two out -Gameday 7/23/10
by Sandberg's evil twin on Sep 6, 2010 10:17 PM CDT up reply actions
That's the kind of manager we need.
Quade should’ve tackled Castro when he made that mistake yesterday.
"A dream you dream alone is only a dream. A dream you dream together is reality." John Lennon
LOL
You made me spit my drink out.
Starlin Castro singles on a pop up to catcher Jason LaRue.
Ryan Theriot scores. Two out -Gameday 7/23/10
by Sandberg's evil twin on Sep 6, 2010 10:45 PM CDT up reply actions
I don't see him throwing a punch at all
I could be wrong, but Ive watched it (quite) a few times.
"Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have?" -Frank Chance
"If [Ruth] had [called his shot], I would have knocked him down with the next pitch." -Charlie Root
Just confirmed
Listach jumps on Volstad at around 1:47 and Bonifacio of the Marlins pulls him off at 1:56. I don’t see evidence of a punch thrown, and they’re center-frame for those full 10 seconds.
"Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have?" -Frank Chance
"If [Ruth] had [called his shot], I would have knocked him down with the next pitch." -Charlie Root
I just watched a youtube segment that had nothing.
I saw him swinging before. I’ll look at your clip. One thing I did notice was Riggleman saying he was glad Nyjer stole those bases, and from his words he didn’t think he was trying to win the game with them. Which is ridiculous to begin with given the score, but hadn’t heard before.
Starlin Castro singles on a pop up to catcher Jason LaRue.
Ryan Theriot scores. Two out -Gameday 7/23/10
by Sandberg's evil twin on Sep 6, 2010 10:30 PM CDT up reply actions
You're not helping alleviate my itch to write the whole thing up in a FanPost, y'know.
"Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have?" -Frank Chance
"If [Ruth] had [called his shot], I would have knocked him down with the next pitch." -Charlie Root
lol...never said you shouldn't.
I see Listach taking a swing at the beginning, dubious if he lands it at all. He then sits on top pushing at him, which is not a peace making move at all. I do agree he wasn’t swinging and landing punches as I seemed to see before for whatever reason. This footage and hearing Riggleman’s comments…I wish I had heard him speak before cause it’s just black and white what Nyjer was trying to accomplish. People are reading what they want to thinking he was trying to help the team by stealing those bases.
Starlin Castro singles on a pop up to catcher Jason LaRue.
Ryan Theriot scores. Two out -Gameday 7/23/10
by Sandberg's evil twin on Sep 6, 2010 10:39 PM CDT up reply actions
I read that initial swing as his trying to gain leverage on Volstad to effectively pin him
"Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have?" -Frank Chance
"If [Ruth] had [called his shot], I would have knocked him down with the next pitch." -Charlie Root
That's being a little generous I think.
Regardless if he simply wanted to protect Morgan from Volstadt he didn’t need to push him into the ground then push him into submission laying on his back. He could have done a simple grab and move the guy away or stand in front as most peacemakers do. I trust MLB looked at this footage at least as many times as us. That they gave him a 3 game suspension to me shows they agree it was unacceptable.
Starlin Castro singles on a pop up to catcher Jason LaRue.
Ryan Theriot scores. Two out -Gameday 7/23/10
by Sandberg's evil twin on Sep 6, 2010 11:10 PM CDT up reply actions
I definitely think Listach was in the wrong
As a coach, he shouldn’t be getting physical at all. But at that point, he made a judgment call to help keep an entire infield off of Morgan, and he went after the guy he figured was the biggest threat. I can certainly fault him for joining the melee, no matter his intentions or actions within.
Apparently, that’s how MLB saw it, too.
"Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have?" -Frank Chance
"If [Ruth] had [called his shot], I would have knocked him down with the next pitch." -Charlie Root
On the other hand, Morgan certainly had a whomping coming it
Trying to stop it was just keeping him from his just desserts.
Can I take back my outraged What?
Obviously I was incorrect about that.
Starlin Castro singles on a pop up to catcher Jason LaRue.
Ryan Theriot scores. Two out -Gameday 7/23/10
by Sandberg's evil twin on Sep 6, 2010 10:48 PM CDT up reply actions
NP :D
I’m used to arguing every nuance of Morgan’s steals with ballhawk – I can handle a little questioning.
"Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have?" -Frank Chance
"If [Ruth] had [called his shot], I would have knocked him down with the next pitch." -Charlie Root
I think Listach
did what he needed to do, which was to back his player. I can understand Pat thinking that it was a bad situation and wanting to protect his guys. I have zero issues with what Listach did. He went in there to try and protect his guy. I can respect that.
At the end of the day
we were down 4-0 and playing without our starting SS and 3B. Yet we came back to win. That in itself speaks volumes for the difference in leadership a manager can impart to his players.
If a quality pitching start is 3 runs and 6 innings, then a quality hitting day is 1 for 4.
I was happy to see that too. Hasn't happened very much this season for sure.
Sunday’s game shows this team has a lot of deficiencies that a manager can’t compensate for by himself, but it has a different attitude for sure. How much of this is because they are garbage games against teams that don’t care anymore I don’t know, but it sure is nice to see the team hungry to compete and win games.
Starlin Castro singles on a pop up to catcher Jason LaRue.
Ryan Theriot scores. Two out -Gameday 7/23/10
by Sandberg's evil twin on Sep 6, 2010 10:52 PM CDT up reply actions
It seems to me
that the team didn’t compete against good or bad teams under Piniella for much of the season. Sure, we’re playing against mostly poor teams under Quade, but we’re winning. I can’t imagine us coming back today if Lou had been managing. The fans are paying the same prices whether it’s garbage time or not. They deserve the same effort. It wasn’t happening under Lou and, thus far, it has under Quade. Baker leading off against LHP was something Piniella would never have done nor Soto batting cleanup.
If a quality pitching start is 3 runs and 6 innings, then a quality hitting day is 1 for 4.
Props to Baker for being a LHP killer.
Sames goes for Byrd.
"A dream you dream alone is only a dream. A dream you dream together is reality." John Lennon
Callups
Currently there are only 2 position players available and both are OF, Fuld and Adduci.
If a quality pitching start is 3 runs and 6 innings, then a quality hitting day is 1 for 4.
When I saw the lineup I didn't think we had a chance.
Props to the Iowa cubs of Chicago for pulling out a win.
I finally got a chance to say hi to ricketts today. I was impressed at how nice he was. He also kept getting up to get items for his guests, like water and whatnot.
Soriano kept waving to his kids behind me. It didn’t seem like he was in the game mentally at all. I felt terrible when he booted the ball and he got boo’ed. Yeah he deserved it, but that had to suck for his family.
"Pounding sand since 1982...."
by cubswynn on Sep 7, 2010 1:09 AM CDT via mobile reply actions
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