On Praising Or Criticizing The Cubs
It seems inevitable.
The Cubs make an offseason move, whether a trade or free-agent signing. The comments begin to roll in... many of them negative. Criticism of Jim Hendry. Wash, rinse, repeat. Then I chime in, almost reflexively giving some approval, however cautious, to whatever deal has been made.
Why does this happen? I've said at times to those who appear to be constantly negative, "Why are you even a Cubs fan?" Of course, that isn't true. You certainly can be a fan of a sports team and be a constant critic -- although, personally, I don't see how you get any enjoyment of following that team out of doing so. But to each his or her own.
We are approaching the sixth anniversary of this site -- February 9 is the date -- and in blog years, that's like decades. My feelings about the Cubs are well known; despite the lack of championships, I choose to be an optimist, to think that each move that is made, each change that happens, will be one that improves the team. Obviously, I wind up being wrong a fair amount of the time. I hope people here realize that and know that if I'm wrong, I'll admit it, and if I haven't, it's only because I take many positions here and I don't necessarily remember each one -- although people here also don't let me forget that!
For example, I didn't hesitate to criticize the Jacque Jones signing when it was made. I actually attempted to praise the signing of Milton Bradley, even though it wasn't the signing I wanted. We don't have to go over and over that one. I have consistently written about how I think the organization has made mistakes in pricing tickets, and wrote this long post about the problems in the bleachers last May, which may have helped lead to at least one solution -- the issuance of wristbands for over-21's to buy alcohol, which did help solve the problem.
Some here have asked what my role is. I'm a blogger. To me, that's kind of a cross between a reporter and a columnist. I try to get Cubs news posted here as quickly as possible for people to discuss, in some cases adding my own opinions later. One thing I've mentioned, seemingly often this offseason, is the feeling I get from many posters that no matter what the Cubs do regarding deals, or what the organization does, is that "everything the Cubs do is wrong". Maybe that's a little bit over the top, but that's the impression I get. Some here then think, if I then defend the move, that my position is "everything the Cubs do is right".
The truth is somewhere in the middle. While Jim Hendry has made some very poor decisions (the Bradley signing and the other moves made to spend those dollars; the Juan Pierre trade), he has now been Cubs GM for more than eight years, since July 5, 2002. Incidentally, that puts him in the top third of all major league GM's in longevity -- only eight others (Brian Cashman, Kenny Williams, Mark Shapiro, Dave Dombrowski, Terry Ryan, Billy Beane, Dan O'Dowd and Brian Sabean) have served longer, and only Sabean (hired in 1996) and O'Dowd (hired in 1999) have more tenure in the National League.
So he must be doing something right. In those eight years, the Cubs have won three division titles -- yes, that's not enough, of course we all want a World Series title -- and vastly improved the farm system under Tim Wilken, hired by Hendry away from the Toronto Blue Jays. Hendry is well respected by his colleagues as a people person and someone who's fair in dealings, and that has allowed him to make some deals that have benefited the franchise.
Are all of those deals great? No, certainly not, or the Cubs would have done better on the field. The moves made after the 2008 season, essentially breaking up a 97-win team just because they lost three in a row at the worst possible time, have hurt the team for the last two years. I choose to believe that the moves made this offseason -- which filled three holes (first base, right-handed setup, and a major league starter) -- will result in significant improvement.
If I'm wrong and they don't, I'll be happy to criticize and say they haven't. I was one of the first calling for Lou Piniella to step down last year when it was clear he was making wrong on-field moves, losing interest in leading, and bashing reporters for making strategy suggestions in postgame news conferences. If Lou had left in May, when I first called for that, would it have made any huge difference in the results of the 2010 season? Probably not, but given what eventually did happen, his departure was the right thing to do.
This site exists to bring Cubs fans of many disparate views together. If any of you feel I've come down too hard on you simply for disapproving of Cubs moves, I'm going to try not to do that. Criticism, when backed up with logical arguments and facts, is always welcome here. At the same time, if I disagree with that criticism, let's have a discussion of the issue without personal attacks and profanity (not saying that anyone specifically has been doing this; it's just a site rule). Personally, I like the moves made this offseason. Do I love them? One of them, yes -- signing Kerry Wood was absolutely the right thing to do, from every perspective. The Cubs needed a solid righthanded setup man, Wood is a solid clubhouse leader, and popular with fans. (Note the order I placed those factors in -- that's the order they should be in.) Carlos Pena, if healthy, was also a solid move. Did the Cubs give up too much for Matt Garza? Maybe, but I choose to believe he's going to put up better numbers in the NL Central than in the AL East. Will the Cubs suffer without a lefthander in the rotation? Maybe, but it's possible that one of the prospects received for Tom Gorzelanny will become a decent major leaguer down the road.
The bottom line is, though, I'm a Cubs fan. (And saying this is not intended to criticize anyone else's level, intensity or method of being a Cubs fan. Everyone here chooses their own way.) I want to believe, every year, that "this is the year", as Ron Santo used to say. Many times that optimism may not be justified, but one day it will be, and then we can all celebrate together. Until then, let's all keep this the most civil, intelligent, and best place to discuss Cubs baseball.
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Just to add...
It’s almost as though many here believe Hendry is actively trying to sabotage the Cubs.
He’s sometimes mistaken in honest efforts to make the team better. And despite how things look on paper/screen, we never really know until the games start in the spring.
GMAFB.
perhaps some feel that way
but i think most that criticize hendry, do so because they believe he lacks vision
and the lack of vision leads to “chasing his tail” to some extent every offseason trying to fill holes with anything that exists, even if its a square peg
I think most believe that lack of vision DOES indeed hamper the franchise long-term as the franchise is stuck in a state of constantly trying to contend with square pegs in round holes that tie up roster and payroll flexibility in the future
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by DartmouthCubsFan on Jan 19, 2011 2:56 PM CST up reply actions
Do you think Hendry's 'lack of vision'
and being forced into constant attempts of contending without the proper parts is due to nobody deep down really wanting a full blown rebuild from a big market team?
I do.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Jan 19, 2011 3:03 PM CST up reply actions
i think that's part of it
i think the fanbases “rabidness” after ‘03 plays a part in it (it shouldn’t, but i think it does)
follow me on twitter for fantasy sports analysis @http://twitter.com/DrewDinkmeyer or get the full analysis at www.fantistics.com
by DartmouthCubsFan on Jan 19, 2011 3:04 PM CST up reply actions 2 recs
Actually, I agree with you here.
The fact that we came so close to the WS and failed, has made a lot of people angry and they haven’t let go of it — and they lay the blame on Hendry, regardless of the fact that he has built two playoff teams.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
built two...torn one apart
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Jan 19, 2011 3:14 PM CST up reply actions
The '08 team wasn't going to go anywhere
That became obvious in the playoffs in that year and the year before. So, the fact that it was dissembled doesn’t bother me. I think the reason that Bradley was brought in was not for his OBP but for his strength of personality, because the Cubs lacked one.
It backfired, for sure, but that was a team that was going nowhere with the status quo.
by jerry morales rules on Jan 19, 2011 3:24 PM CST up reply actions
I disagree with that contention, but even if it was correct...
… that was the wrong guy to bring in.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
I don't disagree that he was the wrong guy.
But how do you disagree with the contention? Lou repeatedly talked about how the Dodgers didn’t use a lefty in the NLDS.
We've been over this many times.
But let me repeat my contention: the 2008 Cubs led the NL in runs with a mostly RH hitting lineup. Just because the Dodgers got hot pitching for three days in the playoffs, is no reason to bust apart that lineup. The Cubs could have signed Adam Dunn, or heck, kept Jim Edmonds for another year if they felt they needed a LH bat.
And guess what? If the Cubs had won the NL Central in 2009 and, again, faced LA in the playoffs, guess what they would have faced — a rotation with two lefthanded starters (Kershaw and Wolf) and two top LH relievers (Kuo and Sherrill).
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
Oh, oh -- wait.
I’m not saying I thought the Cubs were right in their contention, I’m just saying that was their thought process.
Maybe I misunderstood your original point.
Which was that even if they were right, [name redacted] was the wrong guy to fill that spot.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
I know that's what they said ...
but I don’t believe it. It would have been silly for them to come out and say it was because the team was mentally weak.
by jerry morales rules on Jan 19, 2011 3:30 PM CST up reply actions
the 2008 off-season turned out to be an abortion
But I don’t think that just bringing back the 2008 team was a good solution either.
I can haz DeRo?
"Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have?" -Frank Chance
"If [Ruth] had [called his shot], I would have knocked him down with the next pitch." -Charlie Root
rec
summed it up perfectly IMHO
Chronologically inept since 2060
Q: Why did Chuck Norris cross the road?
A: Ditka
I think Hendry and the Cubs blew a golden opportunity this year
Most of the fans I talked to (average fans, not guys that post on blogs or follow sabermetrics) at the end of the season knew the team was broken. They also weren’t convinced that an orgy of spending this off-season was the answer. They heard that we had a good farm system and liked Castro and the young players. I think the Cubs fans would have been patient with a semi-rebuilding year this year. Not fill-the-park patient, but at least go to a couple games patient.
They are rebuilding.
It’s just that rebuilding requires more than sitting around waiting for the prospects to grow into a super unit. I’d dare to say the Cubs and Hendry are even being proactive…
The moves they made this off-season aren't really rebuilding
Signed 2 aging veterans to 1-year deals and traded prospects for another veteran.
They didn’t trade any veterans or even guys on the verge of free agency. Not really a rebuild.
Signing 2 aging veterans to one year deals...
is exactly what a rebuilding team looks to do…fill the gaps…since we have money those guys happen to be quality players who can also give us wins.
The semantics thing again…Fine…they are not rebuilding. They are retooling. They managed to move some pieces who’s perceived value is very high for some younger pieces, and brought in a young ML starter to toss in between two 30 somethings in Dempster and Z. I should have differentiated and realized rebuilding is only to be used when guys who are FAs to be will be traded or when veterans are traded….because that’s what rebuilding is…an extremely quick purging of major league veterans from the roster.
Re-tooling is exactly what they did
Re-tooling while hoping to make a run at the playoffs without significantly hurting the future.
Rebuild implies you tear down some of the pieces you already have. They didn’t do that at all this off-season.
When you're one of the rich, big market teams....
how’s it possible to go all out rebuild? Would you as a fan accept that? I certainly wouldn’t. They’re doing it while still taking into account that they can’t just tank a season on purpose with a payroll over 100 million…And then if they didn’t have a payroll >100million there’d be talk of cheap owners and this and that…
Call it whatever you want to call it…I’ll go by your rules since you’re my senior here and I don’t feel like hearing it from The Gang again…call it a retooling…either way I like the direction they’re taking the franchise.
We haven't seen it in a while
I will give you that. Certainly the Red Sox and Yankees haven’t done it since the early 90s. I wonder about the Phillies prior to the Howard-Utley-Rollins wave of players.
The Phillies were pretty bad in the early 2000's.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
Phillies had 2 losing season in the 2000's 2000/2002
They were bad in all of the 90’s except for ’93.
I think that the Phillies weren't really a "big market" team before the current group of players gelled
Tjhey got some bump from a new park but only really got to the top by winning.
I think what you see with the offseason moves
Is pretty much what teams in major markets with large payrolls feel obligated to do when it is clear they will not have superior talent – make a few moves that will at least make the team somewhat competitive. That is my view of the moves, Hendry is still saddled with large contracts, so he made some nice moves to put a more competitive product on the field. His moves did that and frankly given the situation he did pretty much all he could do this off season. The Garza move seemed a bit of a stretch, but I view him as a longer term building block rather than a 1 year rental like Pena.
If the past couple years have done anything it is to probably take fan expectations down a couple of notches. I think most reasonable folks on this board do not expect a division winner here or wild card team. I’d see this team as winning somewhere between 75-85 games depending on injuries and intangibles.
by BeltwayCubsFan on Jan 20, 2011 3:18 PM CST up reply actions
I agree that much of the fanbase
would have “accepted” a bit of a rebuilding year except for one thing: ticket prices.
What should’ve happened was a “rebuilding year” along with ticket price cuts and the promise that the money wasn’t just being pocketed.
"Stuff like this is why they should shut off the internet."
by Orval Overall on Dec 17, 2010 1:19 PM CST
That was my idea
I still think if people thought the Cubs had a plan they would still be excited. Garza only excites 1 person that I know of.
Garza's mom?
"Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have?" -Frank Chance
"If [Ruth] had [called his shot], I would have knocked him down with the next pitch." -Charlie Root
The problem with that is that Ricketts just bought the team
He has a whopping bill he has to pay. That means he’s got to pocket some money. The Cubs are still a business, and Ricketts has not proven out to be a Jeff Loria, which he certainly would have been called had he dynamited the roster even more to play all rookies and still pocketed the proceeds.
This recent spate of negativity is actually a good thing. The expectations generated are better than the good old days of Wrigley only being a place to go get drunk and watch the Cubs lose. The only bad part about them is the unrealistic expectations made on what Hendry can and cannot do.
[...]when Giants coach Steve Owen, a certified defensive genius, was asked how he planned to stop Nagurski, he said: "With a shotgun, as he’s leaving the dressing room."
by NobodySpecial on Jan 19, 2011 4:13 PM CST up reply actions
On numerous occasions
I’ve read that the Ricketts cash position is terrible. Yet that is not a fact. Since the Ricketts sold about $400M in Ameritrade stock, the value of their stock has risen $400M. That effectively has driven their cost down to $445M. They’ve also persuaded Mesa to build them a new facility in Arizona which will be a year round cash cow.
Further, why are we to feel pity for a business that agrees to willingly pay what they agree is a fair price for a going franchise? They had full access to the books. They did the deal and now are running around the country pleading for relief. Caveat emptor.
If a quality pitching start is 3 runs and 6 innings, then a quality hitting day is 1 for 4.
a few things
anytime you make a big purchase in the business world (Tom Ricketts cant buy many big ticket things on 100% credit like you and I could) you have to lay out a bunch of cash…which is why they are going through some pains right now, they are most likely cash poor.
To suggest that the stock price of a company they own goes up that it somehow affects their cash position is flat out wrong. If your 401k goes up does that mean you can go out to a fancy dinner that night? No, same with Bill Gates and Warren Buffet are worth $50 billion doesnt mean they can go out an write a check for $50 billion, it just means the stock they own is worth that much. Most likely they make a modest salary.
Also, the Mesa complex hasnt even come anywhere near being built yet meaning it is not a cash cow and wont be for a couple of years, thereby not affecting their cash position as of now.
I am not making excuses for them, just giving the right answers to your wrong statements.
Some additional #'s on Garza
There have been fanposts comparing Garza and Lilly which is all well and good—but here are a couple more facts that I think are cause for optimism.
Garza was 4th in the AL last year in BA/w RISP (.197)—ahead of guys like King Felix, Jon Lester, etc. That’s a stat that in my view measures competitveness and mental toughness. He can bear down when he’s in trouble and get people out.
He was 8th in the AL in highest avg fastball speed (93.3) pretty much with the same #’s as Greinke (93.5) Sabathia (93.5) and Lester (93.3)
He just turned 27 a couple months ago which is frequently THE magic age for peak production.
I know it’s been discussed—but going from AL to NL is a BIG plus—from AL East is even bigger.
Yes he gives up homers and fly balls—no question—what I think will hurt him more is the large degradation in defense frothe Rays to Cubs. I expect he’ll be solid and some folks will be unwilling to eat the crow they’ll have coming. :c-)
"He can compress the most words into the smallest idea of any man I know. " Abraham Lincoln
I think everyone expects him to be "solid" at a minimum.
I think he’ll be better than that.
The question, of course, is whether acquiring a “solid” pitcher was worth the effort, seeing as how the team has quite a few solid starters, or whether acquiring a solid pitcher was worth the cost the Cubs paid.
If Garza turns out to be an anchor starter – a #1 type, a true difference-maker – over the next 3 years, then it was worth the cost. But for 2011, it’s difficult to see him being a massive improvement over the guy he replaced, Ted Lilly. And even if he is an improvement over Lilly, will that be enough to put this team over the top?
MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown
But you really can't gauge "the cost" yet either
Nice try—but Garza is a much more proven commodity than what we gave. The only thing that bothers me is that the Rays have consistently proven the last few years, that their eye for talent is quite good.
"He can compress the most words into the smallest idea of any man I know. " Abraham Lincoln
And not EVERYONE "expects him to be solid at a minimum" .....
from what I’ve read on the site the last couple weeks….we’ve got people calling him a #4 starter and just on and on. If one of the prospects given turns into a star player 2 years from now and Garza ends up at a good #2 for the nxt couple years—do you still consider that a bad move for the Cubs?
"He can compress the most words into the smallest idea of any man I know. " Abraham Lincoln
If one of the prospects is a star, and Garza is a #2, then it's probably a bad trade.
And this has been discussed ad infinitum. Highly ranked prospects have a “present value”, based on potential, that is entirely discrete from what they may or may not ultimately accomplish.
MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown
So in English....
Garza has tangible value right now and prospects are a complete wild card with no way to predict what they may tune into. True?
"He can compress the most words into the smallest idea of any man I know. " Abraham Lincoln
no
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by DartmouthCubsFan on Jan 21, 2011 8:35 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
not exactly but
you are closer to the mark than D98.
Garza is a proven big league pitcher, his value is real, whereas a kid like Archer has potential value since he has not shown anything on the big stage. Potential is real, just not as real as the value of a player who has actually performed on the big stage like Garza.
I always turn to the sports section first. The sports page records people's accomplishments; the front page has nothing but man's failures.
~Earl Warren
by lookingdeadred on Jan 22, 2011 10:11 AM CST up reply actions
Potential has "real" value today.
That seems obvious, in that the Cubs just traded a bunch of “potential value” for an MLB pitcher’s “real value”.
MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown
no real value to the Cubs win/loss record ... yet
therefore no real value … yet, except as trade bait maybe.
I always turn to the sports section first. The sports page records people's accomplishments; the front page has nothing but man's failures.
~Earl Warren
by lookingdeadred on Jan 23, 2011 10:03 AM CST up reply actions
What if Garza helps the Cubs win a WS title
and then a few years from now Lee or Archer becomes a star, is it still a bad trade?
I always turn to the sports section first. The sports page records people's accomplishments; the front page has nothing but man's failures.
~Earl Warren
by lookingdeadred on Jan 22, 2011 10:12 AM CST up reply actions
I wouldn't say so.
Because you’d have the WS title, and might not have had it without the deal.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
what if
Garza becomes an Illinois politician and fixes the state budget problems, which then results in season ticket holders having more money to spend and thus the Cubs have a bigger payroll and THEN the Cubs become the Yankees and Hae Juk Lee becomes a korean spy who gets the country important information to protect threats from North Korea?
What about then?
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by DartmouthCubsFan on Jan 22, 2011 11:00 AM CST up reply actions
Well then.
In that case it wouldn’t be a good deal.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
the only problem is
that with the payroll that we had locked in coming into this year the Cubs brass couldnt do a full out rebuilding because many of our big ticket players are untradeable so they need to do something that will put us in contention so that they can sell tickets because at the end of the day that is what they need to do, sell tickets
That's why I didn't have a problem with the Wood or Pena deals
And why I can understand not trading Dempster, Soto, Marmol or Marshall. But, the Garza move really doesn’t fit with that plan.
very true
the Garza trade is puzzling…unless Hendry is hoping for 2 things: 1) Ted Lilly part Duex and 2) Zambrano is tradeable in the near future – then the trade makes sense in my mind
by hansman1982 on Jan 20, 2011 11:54 AM CST up reply actions
I think you are being overly optimistic about Cubs fans as a whole
I don’t have the demographics and the surveys, but the Cubs do. While, perhaps, the ones you talked to felt that way, the rest of the others (The ones that will pay attention on the 3rd Friday of February and then at the beginning of the season) I don’t believe did. Their dollar is worth exactly as.much as those others,
by jerry morales rules on Jan 19, 2011 3:27 PM CST up reply actions
I think Hendry's lack of vision comes from driving while watching the rear view mirror
And really started with shelling out big in both dollars and years for Soriano after missing Beltran. The 2006-2007spending surge that yielded the rush of two division winners but is now providing the nasty hangover, and Hendry’s offseason moves since have been attempts to stich up the loose threads (Fukudome, Bradley, Miles, Grabow).
Right now, it looks like he may a get a crack at the 2011-2012 offseason with a cleaner slate than he has had since 2006. If that happens, let’s see how he does.
Don't hate the strategy.
It’s been done before, and successfully, even if it does look awkward at the time. Here’s a great example.
Well said...
…the Cubs have never had a sound long term philosophy and because of this, it has created the “chase your tail” mode Hendry has gotten into at times. Good baseball organizations start at the top, and I just happen to think that has been a weak link for the Cubs.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
I think...
…it is more along the lines of some just not thinking he has the right skills to be a good GM, at least for me it is.
I have nothing against the guy personally, and in fact, have respect for the style in which he goes about his business. Unfortunately, this isn’t about style it is about results and IMO, he makes too many poor decisions and lacks the overall strategic vision, to produce good results even with better resources than most clubs.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
Fair enough
I try to be optimistic also, but Hendry has had a bad last 3 years…he’s in a slump. Of course other Cubs GM’s have had almost every move they make fail, its nothing new.
My expectations in 2011 are low, very low…so any kind of a positive season and it will be more than I expected.
In my business I get results, that's why we are successful .
My tiny business is light years smaller than the Cubs. I don’t throw money at problems, I get people in that make my business thrive year after year. I have no tolerance for slumps or excuses. I am constantly amazed why the Cubs organization is. However, it is the team I grew up loving and watching as a boy and it remains my favorite entertainment.
"Don't shed any tears. You think about this: Here I am, the grandson of a slave. And here the whole world was excited about whether I was going into the Hall of Fame or not. We've come a long ways." BUCK O'NEIL
by HotDogDude on Jan 20, 2011 9:14 AM CST via mobile up reply actions
Part of the Hendry unhappiness, I think
…is the fact that he’s had an awful high payroll for what’s come out of it, no?
Now, a high payroll does not a guarantee of success, of course. But it sure should help.
This is why the Garza and Pena deals are kind of interesting to me..
They’re either reasonably-priced or limited number of years. You could make an argument that the front office has made some adjustments the last couple of years after swinging for the fences a few years ago and saddling this team wiht long-term expensive contracts. Kind of makes me glad we didn’t sign Adam Dunn, because these expensive contracts are exactly what are getting people so grouchy.
by DisCUBbobulated on Jan 19, 2011 9:43 PM CST up reply actions
So, Sully's references to a Cubs blogger recently was referring to you?
Were you invited to the media shindig before the convention Friday? Per Sully, only one Cubs blogger was…
No to Otto, etc.; Yes to Moreland for the 2011 Radio Booth
Can I have your autograph mister?
“Avoid the clap- Jimmy Dugan”
WOW!
“That’s good advice!”

There are 108 beads in a Catholic rosary and there are 108 stitches in a baseball. Who says baseball isn't a religion?
Kind of OT
But not worth a fanshot… (and I know you don’t “hate” Sully or anything of the sort) but…
How odd is this headline on the finalization of the Gorz deal?
Burgess brings strong arm to Cubs for Gorzelanny
Granted, Sully likely didn’t write the headline, but I’m still going to “convict” him as guilty by association (given all the goofy things he writes).
But I’m pretty sure the Cubs didn’t acquire Burgess predominantly for his arm.
"Stuff like this is why they should shut off the internet."
by Orval Overall on Dec 17, 2010 1:19 PM CST
Agreed.
And no, the writers don’t usually write the headlines. “Strong arm” to me would indicate a pitcher, which Burgess is not.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
Obligatory "Paul Sullivan is an idiot. And a crappy writer." comment.
"The riches of the game are in the thrills, not the money." --Ernie Banks
I beileve this is the best Cubs offseason in a while...
and I’m enjoying the direction the team is heading in this offseason. Organization seems to have caught up with itself, and is ready to push forward in a positive direction.
I’m very optimistic about 2011…there’s a crapload of opportunity to be seized this year.
Any GM candidates should I go back to hating Hendry this year?
I agree it might be the
safest offseason in a long while. Garza, Pena, Aram there is room for change at the end of 2011…
I didn't understand the "white-collar Cub fans", "blue-collar Sox fans" until much later in life. Harry Smith~ "For Cubs Fans Only".
And tho I admit my opinion my seem tilted...
In a wierd way, it seems like we are “reassembling what we disassembled” beginning with Theriot trade… not that I was a Theriot fan, just "couple IFs n a SP (LHP-Lilly) out, Lee out… Pena in, Garza in (IMHO Lilly may out-pitch him), some prospects out, some prospects in… Hard to wrap my mind around any clear plan to really improve the team.
I didn't understand the "white-collar Cub fans", "blue-collar Sox fans" until much later in life. Harry Smith~ "For Cubs Fans Only".
Oops : mAy seem tilted
I didn't understand the "white-collar Cub fans", "blue-collar Sox fans" until much later in life. Harry Smith~ "For Cubs Fans Only".
Keep in mind...
I’ve been reminding myself of how wonderful our scouting system has become over the past five years, rebuilding a pretty much dead farm systems into one of the best in baseball. Hendry has a lot to do with this reorganization, and he gets far too little credit for this. I think they understood exactly what they were doing with this trade, so I’ve come to peace with it.
Proud recipient of a hot dog shot from the Iowa Cubs hot dog gun.
One of the best in baseball?
How do you figure? Even before the Garza trade, it was ranked eighth.
The farm system has improved, but let’s not get ahead of ourselves.
8 out of 30
Not bad. Especially considering where we were the last 20 years .
"Baseball is ninety percent mental. The other half is physical." -Yogi Berra
Our farm system has acne and thinks it already knows everything.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Jan 19, 2011 3:10 PM CST up reply actions
I just wish it would stop rebelling by running away from home.
"Playoffs?!" -Jim Mora
by Castro Por Presidente on Jan 20, 2011 7:34 PM CST up reply actions
Yeah, really.
This is baseball — they should running to home. These punks don’t know anything…
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Can't we have higher expectations than that?
I don’t want to be simply better than the Larry Himes years.
Of course.
But clearly, things are better now.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
But it took Hendry until the last two years to really make things better.
Hendry wasn’t hired in 2007. He was hired in 2002, and was with the club for years prior. Why do we give him so much credit for improving the farm after so many years?
Because......
That doesn’t happen overnight. The “farm system” is made up of many players-you have to transition a good amount in and/or out to make it better.
Well, he was in charge of the minor league system prior to that, so it's a bit longer, to be fair.
MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown
Don't remind me
and the Larry Himes years were golden compared to what Jim Frey did to the system. He got credit for some Green/Goldsberry picks that came through the system, but Frey was a complete and utter disaster.
I still have to listen to people complaining about Ty Griffin and Earl Cunningham, 20 years later.
by Josh Timmers on Jan 19, 2011 3:18 PM CST up reply actions
How much of that is due to promotion to the big club, though?
I don’t follow the minors as closely as some folks around here do, so I’m genuinely curious.
"Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have?" -Frank Chance
"If [Ruth] had [called his shot], I would have knocked him down with the next pitch." -Charlie Root
It's the Garza trade
Baseball America ranked us as the #8 system just before the Garza trade. Losing those four players probably drops us 8-10 spots.
No one has been promoted in the past two weeks.
by Josh Timmers on Jan 19, 2011 4:25 PM CST up reply actions
Yeah - once a non-game thread gets over 400 comments
I figure most of them are stuff that’s too tedious to try to wade through. Thanks for the info.
"Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have?" -Frank Chance
"If [Ruth] had [called his shot], I would have knocked him down with the next pitch." -Charlie Root
Not bad does not equal "one of the best in baseball."
Sorry, it just doesn’t.
Weren't we actually one of the top ranked systems back when Mark Prior was drafted?
Someone will have to help me out here, my googling hasn’t returned anything of value so far.
I think so
and Corey Patterson was very, very highly rated.
by Josh Timmers on Jan 19, 2011 5:23 PM CST up reply actions
In 2002
The Cubs had seven prospects in the top 80 Baseball America list. 2) Prior 6) Juan Cruz 40) Choi 45) David Kelton 48) Bobby Hill 68) Nic Jackson and 80) Zambrano.
by Josh Timmers on Jan 19, 2011 8:51 PM CST up reply actions
Just reading those names inspires optimisn regarding the Garza trade.
Half those dudes didn’t amount to anything. Be it because the Cubs minor league system wrecks potential or some other reason, I feel like it was a chance worth taking to get a proven major leaguer, and send out potential that may never amount to anything in our system.
Don’t get me wrong, one of those players is likely to suceed but I am hopeful that this deal proves worthwhile in the longrun.
Kwa...Ki...Sur...Pee...Nee...Ku?
by Kinky Reggae on Jan 20, 2011 10:15 AM CST up reply actions
we were #1 by BA
follow me on twitter for fantasy sports analysis @http://twitter.com/DrewDinkmeyer or get the full analysis at www.fantistics.com
by DartmouthCubsFan on Jan 19, 2011 6:23 PM CST up reply actions
I'm quite optimistic about the '11 campaign.
I liked all the offseason moves and I like the way Quade has handled things. I could be wrong, but I’ll wait til at least June until I make that assessment.
Keep that Q Train rollin' in '11. Let's win it for Ronnie.
Good post Al
I have been one to be critical of Hendry. The obvious move of Bradley and to lesser extent the signings of Dome and Grabow were in my opinion his low points. But his overall track record is fair to good. This offseason the cry for Adrian Gonzo was loud and clear. I personally think Boston would of out bid anyone to get him. But obtaining Garza, all be it for a steep price can be a solid pitcher for numerous years for the Cubs. And prospects are that, prospects. Getting Reed and Wood back were very important. If Pena is healthy, 35, and 90 could very well happen.
Sure this team needs a lot to fall into place. Ramy, Sori, Pena and Z need good years. Colvin and Castro need to improve, not take a step back. But who knows. New manager, the presence of Wood and Reed, Lou no longer managing half of the game, maybe things shake into place.
After 2003 the bar for this team has been placed at one level, World Series championship. Fair or not, that is the way it is now at Clark and Addison. Maybe that has taken some of the fun out of it as fans. Hell, a lot of us are not satisfied with a division crown anymore, and I understand that. Have to keep in mind all Cub fans want the same result. So I am with you Al, I raise my Half full glass for a playoff team team this year.
Manager is underestimated
I think many of us underestimate the role the manager plays on a team. As pointed out in posts last summer, (sorry I don’t have the references) studies are inconclusive on the managers role n a team winning or losing. I find it hard to believe however, that Lou’s disinterest for nearly two seasons played a huge role in the Cub’s struggles.
The job of a General Manager may be the most difficult In baseball but Hendry has done a passable job. Certainly he has had some misses. Soriano’s contract and Bradley’s signing are both good examples. I was excited a out the Dome signing but in hindsight, Hendry gave him too much money. Dome is th strength of our outfield defensively. He is not paid soley to be good defensively. The Bradley signing did an incredible amount of damage. Soriano’s contract & his seeming lack of effort has hamstringed this franchise.
I do think Hendry has done a good job this offseason. The one year contract to Pena is nothing more than a stopgap, and I expect him to put up good numbers this year. I like the Garza trade. I expect him to continue to develop as a pitcher. The Wood signing will bolster both the bullpen and the clubhouse as a whole. I think this team will be more fun to watch, and I believe we will see more effort on the field this year. Al, this was a great post.
I have PMS & a GPS -- which means -- I am a bitch, and I will find you.
by cub in louies nest on Jan 19, 2011 6:46 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
I disagree on the value of a manager...
…they can make a difference, but IMO, baseball managers have the least impact on the team’s results compared to all other major professional sports.
Baseball is a GM’s game. If you are strong at the top and have a quality organization, you can win on the field with a variety of managers.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
Great post Al
I started coming here about 2 years ago, because some of the bashing and attacks of each other on other sites, especially the Cubs.com site, are out of hand. I dont post a ton on here, but like you, I am a fan that always looks positively, and even when we are out of it, I love the game and am following it to the very end.
"Baseball is ninety percent mental. The other half is physical." -Yogi Berra
I probably have appeared to be in the "everything the Cubs do is wrong" camp for the past few months...
and I understand how that perception can be made. I’ve been unhappy with “everything the Cubs have done” for the past few months. Has all of it been wrong? We won’t know until we know.
I’m not the most optimistic person in the world anyway, and seeing what this organization has chosen to focus on in the past two years hasn’t given me much reason to be optimistic about the next couple seasons. Now having said that, I do hope we win the WS every year, I am a Cub Fan, but for better or worse, I’m no longer able to simply look at every move this franchise makes in a vacuum. The new ownership hasn’t had a fair chance to fully change the overall approach to running this baseball team just yet, but time is running out and they seem to be taking the same general approach as when TribCo. owned the team. As bad as Lou was at the end of his tenure here, his initial remarks echo in my brain as a juxtaposition to what I see from this team now…“We’re going to win here, and that’s the end of the story.” I so much want to win.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Jan 19, 2011 2:57 PM CST reply actions
Thanks for making this post.
Sometimes, you just come here and snark or mock one of my remarks — hey, that’s fine, as long as you don’t personally attack, and you don’t.
This is quite reasonable and I don’t disagree with any of it, except for the fact that you say the new ownership is in a “time is running out” phase. How so? They’ve been in charge for only ONE year. Wouldn’t you say it would take longer than that to change a corporate culture that had been in place for nearly three decades?
Give the Ricketts a little more time, especially to show that they are dedicated to building the organization from the ground up. That can’t be done in one year.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
No, it can't...
but they don’t seem to be changing much of anything in regards to the actual ball-playing portion of the franchise. Now the stadium, signage, tickets, marketing….they’ve jumped right in on that stuff.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Jan 19, 2011 3:19 PM CST up reply actions
What is it, exactly, you want them to do with the "ball-playing portion"?
Throw $100 million at free agents? Rip apart the franchise and steal the Phillies in the middle of the night?
It takes time to fix baseball problems.
Now, the marketing stuff you’re talking about — that they can do right away. I think, and have said, that they’ve made a mistake pricing tickets at Red Sox level without the sustained success of the Red Sox. We will see what that does to sales.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
SWL can obviously answer.
My take as far as what I “want them to do” is pick a strategy and run with it.
As noted above, I would’ve been in favor of a “let the contracts play out, go with a youth movement, and cut ticket prices”.
To me, the moves this offseason ring of mixed messages, though I certainly understand if others see it differently (and it may in fact hinge largely on the evaluation of the major trade that was made).
The signing of Kerry was great, in large part because of the cost.
While I don’t think the Pena signing was a “bad signing” by any means, I also didn’t see the need to spend $10M on a 1B who you have to count on “bouncing back”.
The trade… we’ve been over.
In sum, I see the money spent and prospects shipped off as an overall loss of assets in a season where the Cubs are very unlikely to contend. I certainly hope they will contend.
"Stuff like this is why they should shut off the internet."
by Orval Overall on Dec 17, 2010 1:19 PM CST
by fsuapollo on Jan 19, 2011 3:31 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
This. Please just show that we have some strategy in place to make the organization good (for the amount of money that they spend) and in turn the team better.
The team spends a lot of money but it seems like we get really excited window shopping and spend our money on things we don’t need, don’t really want, or that will harm us, without really taking the time to figure out what it is we need to be doing to get us where we want to go.
Not to open up the can of worms...
but giving a player like Koyie Hill a 20% raise and swapping #4 starters (Garza/Gorz) while losing prospects and giving Pena $10,000,000 after a 2010 season that was “meh” is one example of some of the “baseball problems” they don’t seem to keen on addressing.
This boils down to what kind of overal plan Hendry is trying to put into place, and as I type this fsuapollo hits the nail on the head about strategy.
I’m against what Hendry did this offseason, because I view 2011 and 2012 as treadwater campaigns until some of the big contracts can come off the books and would prefer to pin playoff hopes on the younger players simply growing into better ML players instead of piecemealing another roster together to “compete”.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Jan 19, 2011 3:37 PM CST up reply actions
I think way too much angst has been spilled over the Koyie Hill thing.
You may be right about 2012 being a year where the Cubs can go after a big-name free agent (Pujols? Fielder?) with all the $ coming off the books.
But I believe they have put together a team that can compete and be better than last year. Worldbeater? Maybe not, but the 2011 Cubs will be an improvement over 2010.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
they'll be an improvement
whether they can contend is a whole nother story
improving from 75 wins isnt hard
follow me on twitter for fantasy sports analysis @http://twitter.com/DrewDinkmeyer or get the full analysis at www.fantistics.com
by DartmouthCubsFan on Jan 19, 2011 4:01 PM CST up reply actions
True.
And don’t forget that in 1998, 2003 and 2007, the Cubs made the playoffs after losing 95+ games each of the preceding years.
It can be done. Other teams besides the Cubs have done this, too.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
See, this is where you lose me, Al.
Citing improvement of past teams doesn’t really mean much. Sure, the Cubs had big bounce-back years in the seasons you cited. But what about the 2000 team (which didn’t improve after a terrible 1999)? Or what about the 1997 team — which declined substantially after a better 1996?
your looking for a reason to disagree
if one digs deep enough he may find facts to support ANY argument. All Mr Yellon was saying is that it CAN be done. You certainly cant say that it CANT be done. I like the direction the team is moving in.
This year our lineup can have a lot of pop. Between Pena, Ramirez, Colvin, Soriano, and Soto we have 5 guys who can leave the park at anytime. Ideally, Castro could be a step faster but if he can keep hittin at .300 he could prove to be a good leadoff man with some decent ability to steal bases.
Our rotation should be a little better this year with Garza. Just sayin. There are reasons to be optimistic
Um, no, I'm not.
Al and I have disagreed on this for years. We shouldn’t derive hope that the 2011 team will do something that other teams did in completely different situations.
Any year when the Cubs are out of it in July, somebody mentions the ’04 Astros or the ’03 Marlins — without providing any other reasons why the Cubs could duplicate what those teams did.
That’s my only point here. Now, you DID mention reasons for hope. But Al in his post didn’t.
I guess the reason I bring up those teams that dug themselves out of deep holes...
…. is because at the time they’re in the deep hole, they look like a team that couldn’t possibly come back and win, much like the Cubs do when they’re in a similar hole.
Example: the 2005 Astros came into Wrigley Field in May at 15-30. They looked like the worst team in the National League. And yet, they made the World Series.
I’m not saying, when I do this, that a Cubs team necessarily has what it takes to dig out of a hole like that, only that many other teams have done so.
And the 2007 Cubs did it — coming from nine games under .500 to win an admittedly weak division.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
And I'm saying when that's the only reason for hope ...
there’s almost NO reason for hope.
Wow!
This is a breakthrough. We came to a successful resolution on this debate — which I believe we’ve been having since 2007.
I’ll be damned.
I was only advocating an ST invite.
Ha. Feels like 2010 all over again.
LOL
At least the Cubs now have some veteran relief pitchers.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
Yeah.
I hated when our pen looked like an episode of “Muppett Babies.”
I admit I was wrong about the 2010 kiddie bullpen.
It could have worked. It didn’t.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
The entire solar system might spin off its axis.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
I'm on it.
Now, about Jeff Baker in the outfield …
:)
We can't agree on everything, you know.
You wouldn’t want the Milky Way Galaxy to hurtle into deep space, would you?
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
Or the Moon to Be Ripped Out of Earth's Orbit By...
explosions of nuclear waste on the moon. Oh, wait, that was the premise for Space: 1999.
2011 - The 103rd time is the charm.
I was right about the ticket sales
( sorry could not resist)
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either
by Doggie Stalker on Jan 19, 2011 6:45 PM CST up reply actions
You're right this year.
Last year… I’ll still disagree. But going forward, you & I are on the same page re: ticket sales.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
Now the earth has FLOWN off
it’s Axis
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either
by Doggie Stalker on Jan 19, 2011 10:18 PM CST up reply actions
That explains why it's going to be so cold here this weekend.
I didn't believe it last August, but it turns out that love survives.
State high point count: 3/50
Beat the Chicago Bears, THEN I'll talk about the Packers being in the Super Bowl. But not until that happens.
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Jan 19, 2011 10:18 PM CST up reply actions
They didn't do this by magic, though.
The ‘05 Astros didn’t make the world series as a result of being in the hole. Seek the root of the causation instead of embracing the improbable comeback as self-inducing.
Right.
But they did it by outperforming expectations and the roster they had.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
That's a terrible strategy for winning baseball games.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Jan 19, 2011 5:08 PM CST up reply actions
They outperformed their record up to that point.
But how they did it is more relevant than the fact that they did so.
Nevertheless
At the time they were 15-30 no one thought they could do it at all, never mind the reasons why.
Look, I’m not saying every team that sucks in May can dig their way out of a hole. But it can be done.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
It does.
But talking about HOW it can be done is more germane and valuable to discussions of this nature, wouldn’t you say?
because its been done before
doesn’t mean its likely
As i said before, i see more reason for optimism this year than last, when i said from the start i didn’t think they had a shot. But a lot of things need to go right for the Cubs to sneak into contention
follow me on twitter for fantasy sports analysis @http://twitter.com/DrewDinkmeyer or get the full analysis at www.fantistics.com
by DartmouthCubsFan on Jan 19, 2011 4:06 PM CST up reply actions
Mainly, those things involve players refinding past versions of themselves
Espcially Zambrano, Pena, Ramirez, Dempster and Soriano. Possible? Yes. Likely? Um, well……
Ha. Funny you should mention that.
I was feeling uncharacteristically negative about the 2011 team and asked my brother what he thought. He said something about how it didn’t look good, but that’s usually when they surprise everyone. It got me thinking about those years….and darn him…he got me going again….now I’m back to being optimistic again.
IMO you misplace the "angst" over Hill.
I really disliked resigning Koyie, though I think he’ll make a great coach one day.
Personally, my “angst” over the signing is the cumulative budgetary impact. I scratch my head trying to figure out why you pay Koyie twice the league minimum (and you have/had viable replacements), then…
…need “permission” to sign Kerry for $1.5M.
…or that some of Pena’s money has to be deferred (thereby impacting future budgets).
…or that part of the incentive for moving Gorz was financial relief.
Obviously, re-signing Koyie didn’t “cause” all these other issues. But it all adds up. If you let Koyie go and don’t bring back Baker (replace with Barney and/or M. Smith) and… voila… you have Kerry’s salary.
"Stuff like this is why they should shut off the internet."
by Orval Overall on Dec 17, 2010 1:19 PM CST
by fsuapollo on Jan 19, 2011 4:13 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
For whatever reason ...
the Cubs place a lot of value on Koyie Hill. I wonder if they really like his game-calling skills. Maybe he had something to do with the improved pitching under Quade? Hill — as TJ has pointed out endlessly — did get a lot of starts in September.
I’m not saying this justifies keeping Hill, or even if this is the Cubs thinking. But it’s about the only way I could see them even offering him a contract.
Oh sure.
And I’m one that is okay with things like “catcher’s intangibles” and whatnot. And I’m certain the Cubs have their reasons and see these same things.
If that was the only place they “wasted” money (and obviously they don’t see it as a waste) that’d be fine. It is the Koyie, plus Grabow, plus Shark, plus the albatross salaries… etc.
"Stuff like this is why they should shut off the internet."
by Orval Overall on Dec 17, 2010 1:19 PM CST
I'm still looking for evidence
that Hill is a better game caller or better defensive catcher than almost every other catcher in the ML. His WAR was the 2nd worst of all starting and backup catchers in both leagues.
If a quality pitching start is 3 runs and 6 innings, then a quality hitting day is 1 for 4.
If you find it, show me.
I’m definitely not sold on the guy.
THE CUBS WIN A LOT OF GAMES WHEN HE CATCHES
He's my Hossa
HO-HO-HO-HO-HOSSA
by jesus christos on Jan 19, 2011 8:35 PM CST up reply actions
Yeah, but I don't think the pitcher's stats improve in his games, either
So, his game calling acumen must be offset by the pithcers’ disappointment at knowing that he will be in the hitting lineup costing them run support.
And you fill with a question mark at backup catcher?
With Hill, you know what you’re going to get. He calls good games, he’s a decent defender, and a suspect hitter. Not too long ago, that would have defined a Cubs starting catcher. All Hill is is insurance if Soto has more injuries with a defined skillset. Imagine the screaming if Hill was let go, Wellington was brought up, Soto gets hurt and Wellington doesn’t do well. Don’t think fans will be caring about him making half of what Hill would have.
[...]when Giants coach Steve Owen, a certified defensive genius, was asked how he planned to stop Nagurski, he said: "With a shotgun, as he’s leaving the dressing room."
by NobodySpecial on Jan 19, 2011 4:18 PM CST up reply actions
He's not a decent defender. Please don't go there.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Jan 19, 2011 4:20 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
He has been historically fine for a backup catcher.
Last year was not good, I’ll agree. However, he still has a winning record as a backup catcher when he starts, and runs against when he starts is still smaller than when Soto starts, as far as I’ve been able to find.
You don’t like him? Fine. Quade and Hendry differ, or they feel that the options available are worse. Maybe the starters have a comfort level with Hill that they wouldn’t have with another rookie without Soto’s talent level.
[...]when Giants coach Steve Owen, a certified defensive genius, was asked how he planned to stop Nagurski, he said: "With a shotgun, as he’s leaving the dressing room."
by NobodySpecial on Jan 19, 2011 4:35 PM CST up reply actions
He has a winning record as a catcher?
You’re really throwing out that stat?
and Quade and Hendry DO differ, that’s obvious, it also is a piece of the puzzle Al claims he can’t figure out as to why some of us really don’t think Hendry is a remotely good GM.
It’s also why I’m not excited about Quade. I’ll give him a shot, I’m not calling for his ouster yet, but so far, he seems like Lou lite with more interest in what’s actually happening in the game.
"Oh Crap"
-Famous Last Words by General George Custer
We do know what we're going to get.
Overrated defense. Good intangibles. Horrific offense.
Back-up catchers are by nature a crap shoot. I would much rather Castillo have the opportunity than to see Koyie start another 35 games in a row, adding an automatic out to an already substandard offense.
When you have an overall strong offense, you can carry a guy you feel is a “defensive specialist” (though, as SWL notes below, his defense is in question). But not when you already have a line-up struggling to score runs.
"Stuff like this is why they should shut off the internet."
by Orval Overall on Dec 17, 2010 1:19 PM CST
whomever replaced hill
would’ve had to have been REALLY REALLY god awful to have been worse than Hill
Hill has been worth negative dollars consistently throughout his career
follow me on twitter for fantasy sports analysis @http://twitter.com/DrewDinkmeyer or get the full analysis at www.fantistics.com
by DartmouthCubsFan on Jan 19, 2011 4:23 PM CST up reply actions
Hill is Sammy Taylor and Cuno Barragan
and a bunch of other Cub Catchers. Really whining about his salary is silly.
Baseball is too much of a sport to be a business and too much of a business to be a sport.
William Wrigley Jr
by bubbamike the one and only on Jan 20, 2011 8:43 PM CST up reply actions
Do you understand how poorly Wellington would have to do
in order to even MATCH Hill’s level of suckitude? I mean seriously, there is literally no catcher you couldn’t insert for Hill and at the WORST they would be AS BAD.
As someone else pointed out, he was the second worst catcher in baseball last year.
"Oh Crap"
-Famous Last Words by General George Custer
I don't think my angst is misplaced...
doing dumb things (Koyie HIll getting a raise) causes angst for the people who don’t like seeing their team do dumb things.
I’ve said this over and over again, in spite of what my signature says, I’m not up in arms about the Koyie Hill thing because I think the backup catcher position will make or break the 2011, 2012 or 20-whatever Chicago Cubs…I’m pissed because there isn’t a rational reason to give a player as bad as him that much money and Hendry has a penchant for doing this.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Jan 19, 2011 4:19 PM CST up reply actions
It's twice as much $ as the minimum salary.
If it had been $5 million, then you might have had a right to get pissed. It’s less than 1% of the total player payroll.
The angst may not be “misplaced”, but far too much of it, IMO, has been spilled over what’s a minor move.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
You're comparing it to the overall total payroll...
that’s not the point Al. If you had someone working for you @ ABC that was genuinely terrible at most of their job, say a janitor, secretary, or mail-room person…would you consider giving them a raise if their total compensation was less than 1% of the total payroll of your ABC affiliate?
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Jan 19, 2011 4:36 PM CST up reply actions
It's your opinion that Hill is "genuinely terrible".
Obviously, Jim Hendry disagrees.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
so the answer to my question is...
Jim Hendry disagrees?
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Jan 19, 2011 5:03 PM CST up reply actions
Yes, because...
… it is your opinion that Hill is “genuinely terrible”. If I had that situation, and I didn’t think the individual in question was “genuinely terrible”, yes, I would consider a raise.
It’s all in the view of the person who is actually the employee’s manager. Clearly, those opinions can differ.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
This is why Hendry gets attacked here Al.
He clearly looks (or doesn’t look) at Koyie Hill’s numbers and doesn’t think he is “genuinely terrible”.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Jan 19, 2011 5:07 PM CST up reply actions
And as has been said, maybe there are other reasons why the Cubs want him on the team.
I’m not defending Hill’s numbers, which I agree with you, were awful last year.
In 2009, he was a decent backup C. Obviously, the Cubs think he can do it again.
Maybe Max Ramirez will beat him out for the job. One thing Mike Quade does, he does reward performance.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
Except that he started Koyie Hill a lot last year
And Koyie Hill sucked last year. We have no idea if Quade rewards performance yet.
by JSB on Jan 19, 2011 5:33 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Hill has never had even a decent year offensively
His OPS+ with the Cubs
2007 27
2008 -20
2009 64
2010 44
His 4 year WAR with the Cubs -1.7
His CS% with the Cubs 28%
By what standard is he worthy of a ML contract let alone a 20% raise and $850K? How many times have we seen him hitting with men on base in the late innings because we won’t pull him?
If the team is crying about money, if they keep Hill, which they’ve done, the organization has lost credibility. Hill is not bad. He is terrible.
If a quality pitching start is 3 runs and 6 innings, then a quality hitting day is 1 for 4.
Jim Hendry obviously disagrees with you.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Jan 19, 2011 11:04 PM CST up reply actions
I think JH would disagree with a lot of us here,
To be honest.
I didn't believe it last August, but it turns out that love survives.
State high point count: 3/50
Beat the Chicago Bears, THEN I'll talk about the Packers being in the Super Bowl. But not until that happens.
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Jan 19, 2011 11:07 PM CST up reply actions
He would disagree with me about how bad of a GM he's been the last 3 years.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Jan 19, 2011 11:12 PM CST up reply actions
Yeah, there are other reasons
Z and Demp love the guy and his game calling. The rest of the bullpen seems to like him too. Historical runs against numbers for him are lower than Soto, and he carries a winning record as a backup catcher with a non-trivial sample size, which sounds pretty good from this non-stathead’s perspective.
Of course, if Ramirez beats him out, then good. But if it doesn’t happen, then maybe he’s just good enough to be our backup catcher…
[...]when Giants coach Steve Owen, a certified defensive genius, was asked how he planned to stop Nagurski, he said: "With a shotgun, as he’s leaving the dressing room."
by NobodySpecial on Jan 21, 2011 11:23 AM CST up reply actions
career catcher ERA
Koyie Hill – 4.26
Geovany Soto – 4.03
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/stats?playerId=5385&context=fielding
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/stats?playerId=6428&context=fielding
follow me on twitter for fantasy sports analysis @http://twitter.com/DrewDinkmeyer or get the full analysis at www.fantistics.com
by DartmouthCubsFan on Jan 21, 2011 3:16 PM CST up reply actions
I really enjoy all the "reasons" used to defend Koyie Hill being shown to be patently false using acutal facts...
over and over and over again.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Jan 21, 2011 3:31 PM CST up reply actions
BS
Take a closer look at the numbers. Hill’s are skewed by 1/6 of his total games being played with a truly bad Arizona team where his CERA was 8.ungodly and 5.45 in two seasons.
In a season by season comparison while with the Cubs:
2007 – Hill 2.98, Soto 3.69.
2008 – Soto 3.80, Hill 5.48 (for a whole 9 games)
2009 – Hill 3.69, Soto 4.00
2010 – Hill 4.21, Soto 4.26
Also, as I noted, Z and Demp love the guy. Z especially. No wonder – last year when Hill caught for Z, Z was 6-2 with a 1.82 ERA. But that’s another inconvenient stat for folks with a hate on to have to process.
[...]when Giants coach Steve Owen, a certified defensive genius, was asked how he planned to stop Nagurski, he said: "With a shotgun, as he’s leaving the dressing room."
by NobodySpecial on Jan 22, 2011 9:39 PM CST up reply actions
What are you basing the "he rewards performance" on?
I’m honestly asking.
You watched him manage for how many games? How can you possibly know that?
I saw a guy who still refused to remove Hill from the lineup despite ridiculously bad numbers and performances.
Al, in all due respect, you put this up with the “I wasn’t in charge then” comment as taking responsibility and in all honesty, you seem to be ascribing character traits to the man because you WANT them to exist, without anything to back them up.
"Oh Crap"
-Famous Last Words by General George Custer
Honestly, this is one of the reasons I dislike Hendry
He seems to find players to fixate on, remembers like four games where they were really good and then overcompensates them.
He did it with Neifi and Glendon Rusch as well.
"Oh Crap"
-Famous Last Words by General George Custer
It's because there's so little useful bitching to be done
Everyone gets that the big pieces can’t be moved, but they have to complain about someone’s salary. I’m more pissed that John Grabow makes 5 times as much as Hill for being a third as useful.
[...]when Giants coach Steve Owen, a certified defensive genius, was asked how he planned to stop Nagurski, he said: "With a shotgun, as he’s leaving the dressing room."
by NobodySpecial on Jan 19, 2011 4:37 PM CST up reply actions
Koyie Hill is the best back-up catcher in MLB to have his throwing hand cut off and reattached.
Bar none.
"The riches of the game are in the thrills, not the money." --Ernie Banks
by dtpollitt on Jan 19, 2011 5:03 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
What's the alternative?
Koyie files for arb, Cubs file their #, and either they work something out, or the arbitrator decides. Given my limited understanding of the arb process, Koyie was due a raise based solely on years of service, even though his performance has lacked something to be desired. So, would the outcome really have been that much different if the Cubs had taken another path? Not sure-probably not. Not to mention the Cubs have a good reputation with players on not going through the whole ugly arb thing-yes you could say “who cares about Koyie”-but that impacts the Cubs reputation as an org to their players.
The alternative is to say goodbye to Koyie Hill.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Jan 19, 2011 5:44 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Don Werner
I did find Don Werner, who was an even worse hitter than Koyie Hill. Werner backed up Johnny Bench and Jim Sundberg. He did catch Tom Seaver’s no-hitter in 1978.
2011 - The 103rd time is the charm.
And how do you do that?
Wasn’t Hill arb eligible? Can you just got rid of him? (I’m honestly asking as I don’t know). What would the impact be from financial perspective?
The Financial perspective is....
they wouldn’t pay Koyie Hill $ to make 3 outs every time he started a baseball game.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Jan 20, 2011 12:25 PM CST up reply actions
I could.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Jan 20, 2011 12:34 PM CST up reply actions
The Cubs could have easily nontendered him.
In other words, not offered him a contract.
Thanks for finally answering...
in straight forward fashion. If that’s the case-I agree, it was a waste of money, and while it was “only $850K”-it clearly was a waste-especially when we could use Ramirez or Castillo.
you don't have to offer him arbitration
you do understand that part right?
"Oh Crap"
-Famous Last Words by General George Custer
All I can say is I come HERE to BCB each day to get the latest Cubs news.
Not the Trib or ST online versions, here.
I also come to check on the pulse of people as inexplicably fanatical about the Cubs as I am.
As Bill Murray’s ‘John Winger’ put it in Stripes:
“We all have one thing in common: we were all stupid enough to enlist in the Army become Cubs fans. We’re mutants. There’s something wrong with us, something very, very wrong with us. Something SERIOUSLY wrong with us – we’re soldiers Cub fans!”
…and we LIKE it that way!

There are 108 beads in a Catholic rosary and there are 108 stitches in a baseball. Who says baseball isn't a religion?
by Zeke on Jan 19, 2011 2:59 PM CST reply actions 12 recs
REC'D!
Lol :D
"Well-behaved women seldom make History"---Laurel Thatcher Ulrich
by cooliogirl47 on Jan 19, 2011 3:09 PM CST up reply actions
First half of the movie, maybe.
Once they get out of basic, it falls off the table and rolls into a dark, dusty corner, behind the furniture.
Ah very true, just like the first half of Full Metal Jacket was great, then turned to crap after basic.
Last Half of Full Metal Jacket
I thought the second half was alright. Of course, it didn’t stack up to the first half of the movie. Full Metal Jacket is still a classic.
2011 - The 103rd time is the charm.
by memphiscub on Jan 19, 2011 3:45 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
R. Lee Ermey was awesome in that movie...
“Why aren’t you stomping Private Pyle’s guts out?”
"I think part of a best friend's job should be to immediately clear your computer history if you die." - Anonymous
but not as good as he is in the GEICO commercial
I always turn to the sports section first. The sports page records people's accomplishments; the front page has nothing but man's failures.
~Earl Warren
by lookingdeadred on Jan 20, 2011 8:20 AM CST up reply actions
Another movie that goes from Good to "WTF?!?" is From Dusk Till Dawn.
Was going smoothly and was very good up to the “WTF?!?” vampires. lol
Has 'jump the shark'
been replaced with “WTF?”

There are 108 beads in a Catholic rosary and there are 108 stitches in a baseball. Who says baseball isn't a religion?
Best war film of all
and the Kubrick film I rewatch the most.
"Keep pushin' til' it's understood. And these badlands start treating us good."
Nah - Dr. Strangelove is better - maybe the greatest dark comedy ever made
by ClarkFan on Jan 20, 2011 1:55 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
I love Dr Strangelove too
FMJ is still my fave.
"Keep pushin' til' it's understood. And these badlands start treating us good."
With the second half of "Gone with the Wind"...
There are 108 beads in a Catholic rosary and there are 108 stitches in a baseball. Who says baseball isn't a religion?
;P
I told a friend the other day that I can’t help it if I’m a Cubs fan because it’s a genetic defect. I like it that way. I may live smack in the heart of Cardinal country, but I will never jump ship.
I have PMS & a GPS -- which means -- I am a bitch, and I will find you.
by cub in louies nest on Jan 19, 2011 8:02 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
Bravo
It’s great to hear positive things about the Cubs. Our society condones put downs, bullying, insinuations, second-guessing and insults by those who hide behind a User Name. Everyone makes mistakes, but these are often caused by outside forces beyond one’s control. Soriano and Fukudome were prizes to be won and the Cubs got them. Unfortunately they haven’t lived up to their expectations.
Wouldn’t it be a novel idea to BELIEVE that the players can live up to their capabilities and even improve. Again stay positive.
Can Quade get the best out of the players and if they don’t produce, put them on the bench? i believe he can and will.
Go Cubs, Go Bears, Go to hell Packers…now that’s being positive.
by Crown Point Bob on Jan 19, 2011 3:15 PM CST reply actions
Minor Correction
Wilken had already left the Blue Jays organization when we hired him. He worked for a year for the Devil Rays, whom we hired him away from. They drafted Jeremy Hellickson in the 4th round when he was there. Ike Davis too, but they didn’t sign him. Nor did they sign Casey Coleman, who I assume they just drafted in the 49th round as a favor to his dad. They should have signed him.
I’ve been accused of being a cheerleader for the farm system, and I admit, I don’t think it’s my role to bash a guy playing for $2000 a month in the minors, even if he’s hitting .220. But I was critical of the Garza trade and I don’t think the organization has been willing to trust that good farm system Wilken and Fleita have been building. However, how much of that has been Hendry and how much has been Baker and Piniella, two guys not exactly known for playing kids, has yet to be known. We’ll see how things go under Hendry.
by Josh Timmers on Jan 19, 2011 3:16 PM CST reply actions 1 recs
I was wondering about that.
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either
by Doggie Stalker on Jan 19, 2011 4:06 PM CST up reply actions
I dont think I would come to this site if the head of the site was not optomistic. You give us the possible up-side of what might not be the perfect situation for the Cubs. That said, I do thoroughly enjoy both sides of the argument and would not be pleased with just a “sunshine and roses” site. But, as for you Al, you have to be exactly as you are.
"Well-behaved women seldom make History"---Laurel Thatcher Ulrich
Really?
Obviously, I wind up being wrong a fair amount of the time.
I mean, I just don’t know how you can come out and argue that such and such move was good, or that so and so will help the Cubs win… when you openly admit to being wrong ‘a fair amount of the time’. If you frequently ‘defend’ moves made by the Cubs, and you’re more often wrong than right… what does that say about the moves the Cubs are making?
At no point do I think you write what the Cubs tell you or any of that other BS. From being on this site for 5+ years, it’s obvious that you are just an eternal optimist. And power to you. But as much as you might not like to admit it, the people bashing Hendry and the Cubs are mostly right. Zero playoff wins in 7 years while consistently having a top 5 payroll is nothing short of embarrassing.
You often hear athletes, GM’s, and owners say, ‘at the end of the day, baseball is a business’. I don’t think there are very many businesses out there that continue to employ a manager that always comes up short in big moments and lacks any sort of long-term vision. I’m not happy this is turning into Hendry bashing, but the simple fact is that he’s had his hand on every single move, and the majority have NOT worked. I’ll let you reach your own conclusion.
by Schwa on Jan 19, 2011 3:19 PM CST reply actions 1 recs
You really think...
… that not winning any playoff games is Jim Hendry’s fault?
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
Well it's either Hendry's fault or the players' fault, right?
So was it the players?
The moves made after the 2008 season, essentially breaking up a 97-win team just because they lost three in a row at the worst possible time, have hurt the team for the last two years
Because he tried to fix that.
Fix what?
The three-game losing streak? IMO, he did it the wrong way.
See, I can criticize Hendry when I think he’s wrong. The 2008-09 offseason was filled with mistakes.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
The 2009-10 offseason wans't exactly stellar.
Nady was pretty much a waste of money, and Grabow was an awful signing.
Jury's still out on Grabow.
If he has a good year, he’ll be in line financially with most similar setup guys.
On Nady, agreed.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
Gotta disagree.
I’m as hopeful as anyone that Grabow can go back to being a useful reliever, but he’s making $4.8M in ‘11. That’s “elite set-up guy” scratch.
Since he’s at best (barring injuries) the 4th guy in the pen (Marmol, Marshall/Wood), there’s really no way for him to justify his number.
But, again, I absolutely feel he can be a useful piece.
"Stuff like this is why they should shut off the internet."
by Orval Overall on Dec 17, 2010 1:19 PM CST
really?
follow me on twitter for fantasy sports analysis @http://twitter.com/DrewDinkmeyer or get the full analysis at www.fantistics.com
by DartmouthCubsFan on Jan 19, 2011 4:06 PM CST up reply actions
I'll admit to being a bit surprized that
Nady did as poorly as he did…I figured he’d have a bounce back year & contribute something!
I didn't understand the "white-collar Cub fans", "blue-collar Sox fans" until much later in life. Harry Smith~ "For Cubs Fans Only".
Haven't we seen
Hendry sign numerous players coming off injuries? How many times have they earned their pay? And it has prevented seeing what our farm system from filling holes.
If a quality pitching start is 3 runs and 6 innings, then a quality hitting day is 1 for 4.
Bounce back?
http://img120.imageshack.us/img120/8616/blueballtc1.gif
If the Cubs still have a chance, no matter how small, it’s still Go Cubs, damn the math and pass the KoolAid.
Without pointing fingers or sounding negative
Nady was still injured when he was signed. I’m not sure how much of a bounce back the Cubs were expecting from a recovering player.
John Grabow: $4.8 million in 2011.
Out of the last 10 World Series, 7 were won by teams in the top 10 in payroll.
Teams in the top 10 that did not win a World Series in that stretch:
- Cubs
- Mets (recently hired a new GM)
- Tigers (lost in the WS 5 years ago)
- Mariners
This isn’t a scientific study by any stretch. But when you spend as much as the Cubs do year in and year out, you need to produce results. We haven’t. One man has been in charge of that since 2002.
Of those four teams...
… only two others made the playoffs in that stretch, and only once each: Mets and Tigers.
The Cubs got in three times. No, they did not win the WS. As I have written many times, I believe once you get in, the playoffs are a crapshoot.
Ask the big-spending Yankees how many WS they have won in the last 10 years.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
The Tigers DID win a pennant.
The Mainers are an absolute mess of a franchise, so being grouped with them is kind of painful to see.
They've won one in the last 10 years.
More than the Cubs in the last 100 years. But you know all this. You also know that they won 4/5 from ‘96-’00. And went to the WS 6/8 times from ‘96-’03.
I would do, terrible, TERRIBLE things for that kind of success.
by Schwa on Jan 19, 2011 4:21 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Interesting post.
I think this is where you get in trouble, Al:
“I choose to be an optimist, to think that each move that is made, each change that happens, will be one that improves the team. "
I think you should certainly HOPE that each move will help the team, but there are some moves that just look bad from day one. And simply lining up behind those moves — in fact, logically trying to defend bad ones — draws critics.
You and I have talked off site about this, and I think the criticism you receive for something like the Garza trade would be almost completely muted if you couched your optimism — i.e. instead of saying “Why the Garza trade is a good one for the Cubs” saying “Why the Garza trade is a risk worth taking.”
Just my 2 cents.
That's a fair thing to say.
Maybe the headline was over optimistic. I do think the Garza deal is a good risk. Many here disagree.
The good news is, we’ll start to find out for sure in only a few weeks.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
Agreed.
I do think the Garza trade makes the Cubs better in 2011. I just hope we don’t end up regretting it in a few years.
Let's put it this way.
If the Cubs win the WS in the three years Garza is under team control, I doubt any of us will really care what happens to the players dealt away.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
Nope
And if Chris Archer turns into an All-Star, I don’t think we will really care if Garza gets the Cubs to 85 or 90 wins this year.
What if Garza has a big year in 2012 and helps us win a WS?
If he did that, I think I could live with Archer becoming an All-Star.
That would be fine with me too
Nobody is going to be mad if the Garza trade is one in a series of moves that nets the Cubs a WS title within 2 years.
seems like people are muddling
1. does this move make the cubs “better” versus 2. is this a good trade based on what we received relative to what we gave up.
I see a lot of folks on this board saying that Garza makes us a better team. Well duh, anytime you acquire a functional player and give up minor leaguers then sure, we will be better relative to not having Garza but that is hardly a useful trade barometer. I have no idea if we gave up too much, I do like Garza and think he can be a #2/#3 guy in our rotation for the next few years.
by BeltwayCubsFan on Jan 20, 2011 3:50 PM CST up reply actions
This is the same pitfall of logic made back in the winter of 2006.
Rationalizing borderline moves by saying “we won’t care if we win” is not wise, given the team’s track record.
The point of a blog is to generate reaction.
And you get a bigger reactioin when you make controversial statements.
I am not saying Al does not believe what he posts, I am sure he does, but I think he chooses the words he does, in part, to generate more of a reaction from BCBers. A headline like "Why the Garza trade is a good one for the Cubs" does that better that your suggested headline "Why the Garza trade is a risk worth taking." The number of posts would seem to support my theory.
I always turn to the sports section first. The sports page records people's accomplishments; the front page has nothing but man's failures.
~Earl Warren
by lookingdeadred on Jan 20, 2011 8:25 AM CST up reply actions
Either headline would generate comments.
But you’re right. The first one is obviously going to get people posting right away who disagree with me.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
Actually, what most people had a problem with
is that 24 hours earlier he DIDN’T think it would be a good deal
and then vociferously defended the move as damn near brilliant after it was made.
"Oh Crap"
-Famous Last Words by General George Custer
The "Why are you even a Cubs fan?" question
Some people enjoy being miserable. Maybe they just don’t want to change or they feel some kind of distinction or character aspect from being miserable. Or, some people love to complain. It gives them purpose in life.
At the least, this is the Internet, where people have gained empowerment to complain.
"Easy on the words, brother,'' Quade said.
Don't Parade on my Rain
:)
"Easy on the words, brother,'' Quade said.
by RiskyBusiness on Jan 19, 2011 4:04 PM CST up reply actions
What concerns me is this...
there is very little expectation of this team in 2011…very little. Now, here’s the rub…what if this team plays .500 ball and exceeds MOST everybody’s expectations? Do we erect a statue of Hendry then? I, for one, do not want this guy at the controls again when all this money comes off the books. Will he be? Probably…2nd verse, same as the 1st. Rebuild after this year? Sure…I’m all for it now. Let’s make sure it starts at the top.
"I think part of a best friend's job should be to immediately clear your computer history if you die." - Anonymous
I'd like the Cubs, and the organization as a whole, to get deeper and more consistent..
They have some problems, which are what they are. But good organizations start fixing them, while bad ones try to band-aid them with big signings and sweeping changes that make it loolk like they’re doing something. This team, as constructed, will be successful to the degree that A-Ram, Soriano, Zambrano, Dome, Dempster, Silva (who is, payroll-wise, Bradley), Byrd and Pena play up to their $110 million in contracts. That’s understandably a sobering thought. The money tied up in those contracts falls to $58 Million in 2012 and $19 million in 2013, and that’s a little more hopeful. Succeeding in 2011 will be a bonus, but the real decisions lie in what the Cubs do for 2012 and beyond to make the team stronger. Failing in 2011 should cheer you up, too, because it may be the final nail in the coffin of stupid, expensive contracts, if not Hendry himself.
by DisCUBbobulated on Jan 19, 2011 10:03 PM CST up reply actions
On optimism.
Thanks for the post, Al. Seriously.
Though we clearly disagree on certain moves, your optimism is refreshing and much needed as we view the landscape of the Cubs’ moves.
Reading your post got me to thinking somewhat about the semantics of the word “optimism”. And I believe an interview I saw last night cuts straight to the differences lots of us are having.
Granted the outlet is Comedy Central, but Princeton professor Cornel West was interviewed by Stephen Colbert last night. West has released a paperback version of his book “Hope on a Tightrope”.
Early in the interview/bit (~1:00), West and Colbert differentiate between hope and optimism. Paraphrasing… we can “hope” things get better, simply because we want them to. Optimism is then hope that is “evidence based”.
As you note, Al, we are ALL (outside of trolls, of course) Cubs fans. And we ALL HOPE the Cubs will get better, win a World Series, etc. That hope is what we share.
What we don’t all share is the “evidence” needed to turn hope into optimism. Now, clearly, some see evidence and feel justified in turning that hope to optimism. Those of us “against” some/all of these moves question the validity of that evidence. We do not feel “optimism” is justified, despite our hopes. Obviously, both sides feel they are interpreting the “evidence” correctly.
Either way, we sure do all hope the Cubs will win. And none of us can wait until pitchers and catchers report.
"Stuff like this is why they should shut off the internet."
by Orval Overall on Dec 17, 2010 1:19 PM CST
by fsuapollo on Jan 19, 2011 3:44 PM CST reply actions 6 recs
I'm rec'ing this.
You & I haven’t agreed on much since the Garza deal was made. But you expressed the same things that I did, in a slightly different sort of way. We all view sports and baseball through our own lenses, however we grew up with and were first exposed to our team, and how we grew with them.
In the end, though… yes, let’s play ball already. And hope DOES spring eternal. At least it does for me.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
I'm new to the BCB... just started a few weeks ago
Al… I really liked this post and appreciate reading the comments from everyone (both positive and negative). I look forward to getting a word in edgewise after the Cubs win it all. Winning the WS will bring the biggest ‘lovefest’ the blogging world has ever seen. Here’s to it happening in my lifetime so I can be a part of it. Keep the blogs coming and the comments flowing!
I'm for the most part a glass is half empty guy when it comes to the Cubs.
I got that way by following them for over 45 years now. I think it’s a defense mechanism I developed to shield myself from the disappointment and general ineptitude that has characterized the team for all but a few seasons of my fandom.
But should they ever win in my lifetime, and now being over 50 I have my doubts, I will be cheering and weeping with joy along with the glass is half full crowd.
Wow
Can’t believe this blog is almost 6 years old. Wander how many of us have been around since the beginning? I wish I had 10 Cents for every minute I have spent reading this blog. Almost every single day since the beginning.
Some of us have been around since the old Yahoo group
We are REALLY old.
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either
by Doggie Stalker on Jan 19, 2011 4:36 PM CST up reply actions
35/m/San Diego
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Jan 19, 2011 4:37 PM CST up reply actions
An early version of BCB

There are 108 beads in a Catholic rosary and there are 108 stitches in a baseball. Who says baseball isn't a religion?
I have this map of the internet...

If the Cubs still have a chance, no matter how small, it’s still Go Cubs, damn the math and pass the KoolAid.
Google picture search
So simple, a monkey like me could do it…

There are 108 beads in a Catholic rosary and there are 108 stitches in a baseball. Who says baseball isn't a religion?
Well, usually, people post pictures like this on the internet.
I’d suggest starting there.
I didn't believe it last August, but it turns out that love survives.
State high point count: 3/50
Beat the Chicago Bears, THEN I'll talk about the Packers being in the Super Bowl. But not until that happens.
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Jan 20, 2011 8:53 PM CST up reply actions
alt . sports . baseball . chicago-cubs
I remember reading Al’s posts on the usenet and visiting yellon.org for his blog many moons ago…
Man I am feeling really old
I was a regular there too.
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either
by Doggie Stalker on Jan 19, 2011 6:47 PM CST up reply actions
Me too
I was reading and posting on that newsgroup as well in the 90s. That is where I always saw Al’s posts. Then when he started blogging and left the newsgroup it started to go down hill. I followed him to his web blogs to read about someone who went to every Cubs game. I wish I was able to go to every home game.
It is great to hear all the stories because I can only watch the games from afar.
Born in Chicago but living in Minnesota for 40 years now. I only get down to Chicago a few times a year at most. BCB really makes me feel like I am still close to the action of my favorite sports team.
Thanks Al for your insight and stories!
I vaguely remember posting there in college
by Shanghai Badger on Jan 19, 2011 10:11 PM CST up reply actions
Does Usenet even get much traffic anymore?
I haven’t been to a newsgroup since… well, since about the time BCB started.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
Al, I went back to some of your first posts
and good god you were all over the place, movie reviews, book reviews, broadway play reviews, etc…
by hansman1982 on Jan 20, 2011 12:24 PM CST up reply actions
It wasn't exclusively a Cubs blog at the time.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
The usenet is still there
But only die hards use it anymore. It was destroyed by spam and an anti-child porn law that made ISPs liable if Child porn was on their servers, even if they didn’t know about it. Since the usenet worked by having ISPs download all the content on to their servers, they were worried that they’d be held responsible if someone uploaded child porn onto the usenet and they automatically downloaded it. So almost every ISP stopped providing the usenet to their customers. You have to pay separately for it now through an independent provider (or use google) and since people were already leaving because of the spam and off-topic stuff, few did.
by Josh Timmers on Jan 20, 2011 1:57 PM CST up reply actions
I was there
asbcc :)
And I remember a number of you guys from there. I don’t post all that much here, but I sure have learned a whole lot more about a lot of things baseball related from this particular group of folks.
Thanks for all you do, Al. And yes, I remember about 1996, I think. But it changed with the Ranger, and DBFC, and some other things. and then this place happened.
"I lof to hit de home ron!"
My all time favorite post was on ASBCC
It was when Farnsworth got taken out of a game and word came out that he broke his hand when he hit an electric fan in a fit of rage. Somebody ( and I wish I could credit them) immediately posted
“Is this the only known literal case of the shit hitting the fan?”
I am STILL laughing.
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either
by Doggie Stalker on Jan 19, 2011 7:38 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
LOL!!!!!
Anonymous poster FTW!
I didn't believe it last August, but it turns out that love survives.
State high point count: 3/50
Beat the Chicago Bears, THEN I'll talk about the Packers being in the Super Bowl. But not until that happens.
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Jan 19, 2011 9:32 PM CST up reply actions
OMG -that's brilliant
If the Cubs still have a chance, no matter how small, it’s still Go Cubs, damn the math and pass the KoolAid.
I remember when Al Gore invented the Interweb
"Easy on the words, brother,'' Quade said.
by RiskyBusiness on Jan 19, 2011 7:15 PM CST up reply actions
I believe it was around the time he invented something else
that he is making millions from…
by hansman1982 on Jan 20, 2011 12:25 PM CST up reply actions
Yes you are, Stalker! :)
I didn't understand the "white-collar Cub fans", "blue-collar Sox fans" until much later in life. Harry Smith~ "For Cubs Fans Only".
That would have been in 2003-04.
Incidentally, if you missed this, last summer I was able to import all the baseball-related posts from the old site here. If you search for game recaps from 2003 and 2004, you’ll find them here.
You’ll find them quite different from the ones I do now. Blogging was a different sport back then.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
Everything the Cubs do is wrong!
Wrong, wrong, wrong, I say!
"Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have?" -Frank Chance
"If [Ruth] had [called his shot], I would have knocked him down with the next pitch." -Charlie Root
Everything the Cubs do is right!
Right, right, right, I say!
"Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have?" -Frank Chance
"If [Ruth] had [called his shot], I would have knocked him down with the next pitch." -Charlie Root
Everything the Rick does is Wrona!
"Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have?" -Frank Chance
"If [Ruth] had [called his shot], I would have knocked him down with the next pitch." -Charlie Root
At least we can all agree
that the Pack must die! :P
Good luck to your boys on Sunday Clutch.
"Keep pushin' til' it's understood. And these badlands start treating us good."
Fire Mikw McMoron!
Oh, wait – wrong blog.
Good luck to yours, as well.
"Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have?" -Frank Chance
"If [Ruth] had [called his shot], I would have knocked him down with the next pitch." -Charlie Root
LOL
Channelling NJ Pack Fan, I see.
I didn't believe it last August, but it turns out that love survives.
State high point count: 3/50
Beat the Chicago Bears, THEN I'll talk about the Packers being in the Super Bowl. But not until that happens.
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Jan 19, 2011 10:18 PM CST up reply actions
Doesn't hold a candle to that idiot Ted Thompson
Who traded away the best QB of all time. OF ALL TIME! Look at the numbers! And the texts! He’ll be back in 2011 and lead (whichever team he’s playing for then) all the way to glory! GLORY! The Super Bowl will be HIS!
Put that in the BANK, TT!
"Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have?" -Frank Chance
"If [Ruth] had [called his shot], I would have knocked him down with the next pitch." -Charlie Root
Revenge4Favre?
Is that you?
I didn't believe it last August, but it turns out that love survives.
State high point count: 3/50
Beat the Chicago Bears, THEN I'll talk about the Packers being in the Super Bowl. But not until that happens.
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Jan 19, 2011 10:52 PM CST up reply actions
????? - John Elway retired of his own accord, Super Bowl trophy in hand. And the Broncos never had a GM named Thompson.
You did say “best QB of all time” didn’t you?
You didn't see the sarcasm font?
I didn't believe it last August, but it turns out that love survives.
State high point count: 3/50
Beat the Chicago Bears, THEN I'll talk about the Packers being in the Super Bowl. But not until that happens.
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Jan 20, 2011 5:55 PM CST up reply actions
Being a Cubs fan
has influenced my outlook on life. I hope for the best but expect the worst. If something less than the best happens, but better than the worst, I feel all right and can handle it.
Is that sick?
the joy of pessimism
You’re either always right, or you’re pleasantly surprised.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Jan 19, 2011 4:36 PM CST up reply actions 2 recs
Spoken like a true connoisseur
If the Cubs still have a chance, no matter how small, it’s still Go Cubs, damn the math and pass the KoolAid.
Jorge Cantu?
I was just wondering what you guys think of him at second base, does anyone know why noone’s signed him yet?
hes hardly a first basemen
He's my Hossa
HO-HO-HO-HO-HOSSA
by jesus christos on Jan 19, 2011 4:53 PM CST up reply actions
Come on...
we won 98 games with Theriot at SS….let’s not get picky about who has and hasn’t played middle infield positions.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Jan 19, 2011 4:57 PM CST up reply actions
Oh, forget it then. We can't use him.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Jan 19, 2011 5:00 PM CST up reply actions
Treat every move on its merits
"Keep pushin' til' it's understood. And these badlands start treating us good."
Al, this is my favorite Cubs' site, and the one I spend the vast majority of my time on.
Hell, I’ve been here for over five years! It’s your hard work that keeps this place up. I don’t have to agree with everything, but that’s why it’s the Internet—you can change the channel, so it goes. I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again: You’re a great guy and I appreciate your hard work to keep this place going.
I’m aware that I’m much more negative and condescending of the Cubs and their management than I was a few years ago. I saw what we did in 2003 and 2007/2008. And now I expect that on a regular basis. I put up with the bloated contracts because the management has (at that time) earned the respect of its’ fans to sign players to long-term deals. But now it is 2011 and we’re overspending and underperforming. There’s no plan in place and nothing makes a great deal of sense. Until I start to see some common sense from the management I believe it is our duty to keep the figureheads in check with critical analysis and critiques of boneheaded moves.
Dan
"The riches of the game are in the thrills, not the money." --Ernie Banks
Will it take a WS win to stop the navel-gazing?
"Keep pushin' til' it's understood. And these badlands start treating us good."
by AussieCub on Jan 19, 2011 5:04 PM CST reply actions 1 recs
Nope
Then, the Cubs would have to repeat. Then, the Cubs would have to threepeat, so on, and so forth. The navel-gazing will never stop.
2011 - The 103rd time is the charm.
I hope you're wrong
I love a lot of the posters on here and find this easily the best source of cubs info on the net but it would be great if the community’s abundant and diverse analytical skills could be focused on our on-field performance and measuring each trade on its merits.
"Keep pushin' til' it's understood. And these badlands start treating us good."
Why should the navel-gazing stop?
I for one the this would be an excruciatingly boring place without adversarial debate.
As long as it's done in a civil way, absolutely.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
Navel gazing hasn't got anything to do with adversarial debate
By navel gazing I mean the analysis and discussion of why we as cubs fans, as an internet community, act the way we do.
Debate all you like, it’s the commentary on the commentary I’m referring to.
"Keep pushin' til' it's understood. And these badlands start treating us good."
It will take more than getting swept in the first round for sure
"Oh Crap"
-Famous Last Words by General George Custer
Negativitity?
Of course I view it as realism. Even the most optimistic fans have to agree that Hendry has had several very bad years in terms of making moves and team performance especially considering the team payroll. As I’ve said repeatedly, Bradley for 3 years was a mind-numbingly stupid move. I still can’t understand how anyone could do that.
I hope that Jim Hendry has learned how to be a big league GM and not just a nice guy. I hope he has but I need some real evidence before becoming optimistic about the Cubs chances for a championship. To me, a championship is what the goal needs to be not hoping if all goes right that the team might be competitive.
John Grabow: $4.8 million in 2011.
Agreed
The only thing I would add to this is that if anyone is going to criticize Hendry for the stupid moves they should at least be willing to acknowledge the good ones. If Hendry were as bad as some people let on, or if he only made moves as bad as the Bradley signing (hey, everyone has a blind spot or two) then the Cubs wouldn’t be able to compete even in a AAA league. As far as evaluating GM’s goes it’s not only a good/bad thing when it comes to moves but you have to look at his work as a whole and evaluate whether the team is better of now than when he first got the job. I think, in Hendry’s case, the answer is yes.
Were the Pirates better off with Dave Littlefield than they were before him? That’s debatable but there is no denying that he was a poor GM. The Mariners and Bill Bavasi? Again, tough to say for sure but the evidence points to him being bad at his (former) job. What about Dayton Moore and the Royals? Interesting that Moore gets so much grief because of his big league signings but I don’t think you can argue that the Royals were better off before him than they are now (Allaird Baird anyone?). So yeah, with a better GM the Cubs (or any team) could win a championship, but the direction the team has taken since Hendry took over is positive. Maybe it’s trending up slowly but at least it’s trending up. If I were the owner I’d always be looking for something better but at the very least we could do a lot worse than Hendry.
I know that you believe that you understood what you think I said, but I am not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant. - Robert McCloskey
No disagreement
Of course, the Cubs could be worse but comparing them to the Royals and Pirates is pretty bad in itself considering the Cubs had a $140 million payroll last year. That was much higher than those two teams. The Mets are probably worse than the Cubs considering they also have had a high payroll. Note however they decided a change in GM was in order this offseason.
As for trending up, the jury is still out. Yes, the minor leagues are looking better but at the major league level, who knows which direction the team is headed. The last data point was a 75-87 record. I’ll wait for some on-field results before proclaiming the team is on the rebound.
John Grabow: $4.8 million in 2011.
It's an ego thing...
The people who constantly criticize the Cubs and/or Hendry are fairly simple, uncomplicated individuals. They’re on record as saying they disagree with what Hendry or the team has done in the past so how can they possibly agree with anything they do in the present? Their ego couldn’t take the hit. They aren’t able to compartmentalize, to separate move from move, year from year. Changing their mind is dangerous because they’re afraid they might open themselves up to criticism (since all they do is criticize) if they go on record as approving of something. It’s just a pessimistic ego problem.
People who are mature enough and are able to change their minds or aren’t afraid to be wrong will give you and honest opinion, they’ll evaluate things and be able to have an intelligent conversation about them. The pessimistic ego guys hide behind their internets and never evolve into human beings.
And they’re all SB Nation members.
I know that you believe that you understood what you think I said, but I am not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant. - Robert McCloskey
thats obviously it
He's my Hossa
HO-HO-HO-HO-HOSSA
by jesus christos on Jan 19, 2011 5:32 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
SBNation really needs to get on top of that de-recommendation button
by JSB on Jan 19, 2011 5:35 PM CST up reply actions 5 recs
I am under contractual obligation to comment on all non-rec buttons.
I’VE EMAILED SBN ABOUT THIS THREE TIMES
"The riches of the game are in the thrills, not the money." --Ernie Banks
I got the sense it's not high on the SBN "Things To Do" list.
I’m still working on the grassroots movement.
"The riches of the game are in the thrills, not the money." --Ernie Banks
I will begin emailing them
every week! I recommend others to do the same…
by hansman1982 on Jan 20, 2011 12:27 PM CST up reply actions
I think that's exactly what has been missing here at BCB
a psycho-analyst.
by troutfishin on Jan 19, 2011 7:56 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Wow, I've never been psycho-analyzed before.
Can you tell who I’ll marry, and when I’ll be marrying her?
I didn't believe it last August, but it turns out that love survives.
State high point count: 3/50
Beat the Chicago Bears, THEN I'll talk about the Packers being in the Super Bowl. But not until that happens.
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Jan 19, 2011 8:12 PM CST up reply actions
As a piece of advice, from personal experience, stay away from psychoanalysts in marriage..
It’s not that they’re ALL mental, but the proportions of those that are kinda nuts are maddening.
by DisCUBbobulated on Jan 19, 2011 10:16 PM CST up reply actions
Actually, you're right..
it’s fairly simply and uncomplicated. If Hendry had just read my comments on this blog, the WS drought would be over, because of the incredibly brilliant understanding of baseball spewed, on a fairly constant basis, by my gifted ego.
by DisCUBbobulated on Jan 19, 2011 10:13 PM CST up reply actions
Hendry should be canned.
But hey, I’m digging that Szczur signing!
GM's are in charge of Managers, not the other way around.
Some broad strokes here
And the tone is kind of ugly, but the truth isn’t always pretty, and I think there are some truths in this. I sense a lot of rigidness in the posters who trend to be more negative. Maybe they have built up so much Hendry-resentment over the years and want him gone so badly that no move he makes can deemed positively. Maybe they just look at stats, the old school ones or the newer ones, and if the numbers don’t add up, there can be no line-crossing as to whether a trade or move is potentially good or not. They do seem to ignore some of the human elements of any moves, or even the potential for positives. The hatred for Koyie Hill is so unforgiving it is almost like it is blinding. And some do hate what they can’t understand.
"I'd rather hit home runs you don't have to run as hard." -- Dave Kingman
by BucknerKongCardenal on Jan 20, 2011 9:28 AM CST up reply actions
Mark Shapiro...
isn’t the GM of Cleveland anymore. He’s been replaced by Chris Antonetti, who would have been a great hire for any MLB franchise including the Cubs. Shapiro is now their President, and is a waste of talent, as he could be running a team by himself.
What do all of those GMs (except Terry Ryan) with such tenure have in common? They’ve all at least been to a World Series, if not won one. There’s no excuse for Jim Hendry to have stayed a GM of a big market team this long with so little success.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Just North of Wrigley Field
The A's have not been to the World Series since Billy Beane has been GM.
They did have a successful run in the early 2000’s, making the playoffs four straight years and winning 100+ games twice in that span.
Now, would you say that was a successful team, even though it didn’t make the WS?
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
They also have an anemic payroll
That’s also why Terry Ryan still has his job and deserves to have it. Long, sustained success against great obstacles. Hendry has neither.
Next?
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Just North of Wrigley Field
by jameslcrockett on Jan 19, 2011 5:58 PM CST up reply actions
Yes, but their budget constraints kept them from being able to keep all the breakout players which enabled them to be that good...
which could have lead to even more playoff appearances and possibly a WS Trophy.
Playoffs are a crapshoot, getting there as often as you can is what matters.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Jan 19, 2011 5:59 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Playoffs are a crapshoot, getting there as often as you can is what matters.
Agreed. I choose to think the Cubs are building an organization that can do that. It may take some more time. You willing to wait?
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
What are the alternatives?
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Jan 19, 2011 6:08 PM CST up reply actions
"You willing to wait?"
I wish the organization was. It seems to me that because Hendry believes that he’s only a couple of tweaks away from contending the season, he’s made a couple of moves to do just that.
I would have rather have seen the potential of Archer and a cheap organizational stopgap at firstbase, rather than having Garza and the 10 million dollar Pena.
10 mil on pena
If we don’t get Pena and trot out Hofpauir-esque first basemen, would you complain about lousy attendance numbers?
I’m not saying Pena guarantees anything or merits the cash, but to punt a season from the git-go seems a slap to season ticket holders. And i haven’t made it to Wrigley in years.
Correct.
The Cubs can’t go full-rebuild and lose 100 games. Where would the fanbase go then?
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
They almost lost 100 games last year and they weren't in "full rebuild mode".
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Jan 19, 2011 11:07 PM CST up reply actions
They were well on their way until the late season surge Al.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Jan 20, 2011 10:31 AM CST up reply actions
Yabbut, you still have to count all 162 games. You could just as easily say
that if you project out the last 2 months of the season, they would have been above .500. The record is for all 162 games. Surges happen throughout the season. I prefer to look at the entire record and that says they lost 87 games.
"Hats for bats.....keep bats warm." - Pedro Cerrano
"Hey bartender, Jobu needs a refill !!!!!!!" - Eddie Harris
by willie mays hayes' gloves on Jan 20, 2011 10:36 AM CST up reply actions
Using their record from April to August..they played .423 baseball....
projecting that out over September had them losing 93 games. The 17 – 9 Sept. literally saved them from almost losing 100 games. Look at it man!
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Jan 20, 2011 10:44 AM CST up reply actions
I'm not disputing the pace they played in the first half of the season, but you
can’t claim they are a 100 loss season if the only lost 87 games. You can project through all different parts of the season, but it’s the number after game 162 that counts. I don’t know if the real team is the one from the first half or the second half of the season, but their record is still 75-87.
"Hats for bats.....keep bats warm." - Pedro Cerrano
"Hey bartender, Jobu needs a refill !!!!!!!" - Eddie Harris
by willie mays hayes' gloves on Jan 20, 2011 10:51 AM CST up reply actions
I never claimed they lost 100 games...
they we on pace to lose almost 100 games until the last 29 games when they inexplicably played at a .660 clip after 123 games of .423 ball. You tell me which was the “real team”.
Yes their final record was 75-87. Again, I’m not trying to revise history. I’m pointing out to Al that “losing 100 games” isn’t some dark magical thing that will make baseball contract the Cubs. They played bad enough to lost 100 games last year, and here we all are getting ready to follow them again in 2011.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Jan 20, 2011 10:58 AM CST up reply actions
I will concede that they sucked the first 5 months of the season. You did
say that they almost lost 100 games and 87 is close to 100. We are probably splitting hairs at this point because yes, they were on pace to lose 100 and somehow turned into a winning team. I have no idea which one is the real team, but I would much rather see the one that played in September and not the bunch of bums I saw from April through August.
"Hats for bats.....keep bats warm." - Pedro Cerrano
"Hey bartender, Jobu needs a refill !!!!!!!" - Eddie Harris
by willie mays hayes' gloves on Jan 20, 2011 11:05 AM CST up reply actions
They played bad enough to lose 100 games until Aug. 22.
After that, they played well enough to win 105. So which is correct?
Neither. They were an 87-loss team last year. They seem to have made moves that will improve them this year.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
Jeeze Al, talk about small sample sizes...
which set of games would you use to make a determination of how good a team is?
1) 133
2) 29
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Jan 20, 2011 12:00 PM CST up reply actions
So you think the improvement wasn't real?
I think it was.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
Man, we need something substantial to argue.
This is a real boring argument to read.
Can’t we sign Scotty Pods already?
"The riches of the game are in the thrills, not the money." --Ernie Banks
You know what's boring? The Dave Matthews Band...
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Jan 20, 2011 12:02 PM CST up reply actions
Now that's boring. Like watching flies f**k.
"Hats for bats.....keep bats warm." - Pedro Cerrano
"Hey bartender, Jobu needs a refill !!!!!!!" - Eddie Harris
by willie mays hayes' gloves on Jan 20, 2011 12:04 PM CST up reply actions
First year since they started that they won't be touring.
Hold my hand?

"The riches of the game are in the thrills, not the money." --Ernie Banks
Grow up.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Jan 20, 2011 12:13 PM CST up reply actions
At least I didn't buy the new Britney single, which you did.
"The riches of the game are in the thrills, not the money." --Ernie Banks
At least I didn't cry in front of my Dad when Simon left American Idol, which you did.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Jan 20, 2011 12:18 PM CST up reply actions
Your dad and I both agree that American Idol is a better show with Simon at the helm.
"The riches of the game are in the thrills, not the money." --Ernie Banks
You're girlfriend and I agree that the beatles suck...
and I’m not supposed to tell you this, but she’s the one who scratched up your vinyl of Rubber Soul…
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Jan 20, 2011 12:36 PM CST up reply actions
I think she left our copy of P.S. I LOVE YOU at your house.
"The riches of the game are in the thrills, not the money." --Ernie Banks
Where do you stand on the Poison/Motley Crue argument Flatley?
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Jan 20, 2011 12:39 PM CST up reply actions
Alice Cooper's Poison was an underrated work...
Just like Tommy Lee’s acting career back in the 90’s.
In all seriousness, I enjoy them both vigorously, assuming that’s the nature of the argument. I am looking forward to seeing the Crüe in Ozzfest next year.
You can be in our club then...
but only if you also like soup.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Jan 20, 2011 12:48 PM CST up reply actions
That's only at Trader Joe's.
So you’re gonna be fine, probably.
"The riches of the game are in the thrills, not the money." --Ernie Banks
Name me another movie where a dead boyfriend
writes letters to his girlfriend for years. It is, without a doubt, the best dead-letter boyfriend-girlfriend movie ever made.
"The riches of the game are in the thrills, not the money." --Ernie Banks
You are right, it IS fun to barbecue a delicious turkey in January.
THIS IS AN ACCEPTABLE TOPIC OF CONVERSATION.
Movies about mushy letters from boyfriends who cared too much can be discussed here.
You need to be more sensitive...
I have some Air Supply mp3s I can email you if you want.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Jan 20, 2011 12:50 PM CST up reply actions
I get all the sensitive music I need from Matt Stone and Trey Parker.
Sometimes, in my weaker moments, I’ll listen to Ozzy’s Revelation.
CRAWDAD ATTACK!
WHITE SOX SUCK
"The riches of the game are in the thrills, not the money." --Ernie Banks
we've lost 95 or more games
5 times in the last 13 years
we’re all still here
follow me on twitter for fantasy sports analysis @http://twitter.com/DrewDinkmeyer or get the full analysis at www.fantistics.com
by DartmouthCubsFan on Jan 20, 2011 8:17 AM CST up reply actions
And made the playoffs four times in those 13 years...
… and won 88 or more games two other times.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
That doesn't have a lot to do with your point
If the Cubs punted on 2011 in an effort to build for 2012, the fans would still come out in 2012.
And in 2011 as well...
…at least until you decide raising ticket prices is a good idea.
"Stuff like this is why they should shut off the internet."
by Orval Overall on Dec 17, 2010 1:19 PM CST
the point was
not to say the Cubs haven’t been successful
The point was we’ve experienced losing and we’re all still here. If the Cubs paired back for one year while campaigning to the fanbase that the money was being funneled into development/scouting and future payroll, i think most could’ve handled it.
At the very least your point above proves that IF the Cubs got back to winning, they’d be fine. Again, we’re all here.
The boom-bust cycle of continuous FA spending and running your payroll right up to its extremes isn’t one that is prone to long-term success. Its prone to booms and busts as we’ve seen. Generally the Cubs have either been horrible or a little above average.
To be consistently above average they need to institute things i’ve discussed ad nauseum on this site. Increased payroll and roster flexibility, improved farm system, and vision
And if steps were made in that direction I think most Cubs fans would recognize the message consistent with the Ricketts group’s first message to owning the team and they’d be OK with some short-term struggles.
The reality is the Cubs could’ve done everything they did this year, sans the Garza trade and it would’ve been viewed in that regard. And really the Garza trade isn’t going to be the difference between whether we’re really good or really bad. It’s a peripheral move. He’s a 3-4 win player MAX and was replacing a likely 1-2 Win player minimum.
If we’re going to contend now it’s likely less to do with Garza and more to do with everyone else bouncing back/taking steps forward and if we don’t contend now it’s going to do very little with Garza and much more with aging guys continuing to decline or younger players hitting bumps in the road.
In the end the Cubs took some of the right steps this offseason toward earning credibility with those in favor of a long-term plan, but the Garza trade made many pause and wonder if its ANOTHER example of short-term satisfaction at the cost of long-term gain. Only time will tell if that’s the case or not, but given the recent history of chasing our tails every single offseason, it makes sense that many would be hesitant to believe the Organization has taken a big step forward in understanding what it takes to be a CONSISTENT contender long-term
follow me on twitter for fantasy sports analysis @http://twitter.com/DrewDinkmeyer or get the full analysis at www.fantistics.com
by DartmouthCubsFan on Jan 20, 2011 10:42 AM CST up reply actions 5 recs
Not much choice but to wait.
A big portion of the disagreement is regarding Hendry. Some of us really don’t see him as the GM to get the team there. It has been 10 years and this team is far from a championship contender. The 2011 hope is for things to go right so the team can contend.
Unfortunately, none of us have a choice so all we can do is give our opinions.
John Grabow: $4.8 million in 2011.
Also...
Billy Beane has had plenty of opportunities to leave Oakland. He’s chosen not to. Maybe he’s a glutton for punishment, I don’t know. But you can’t say other teams are licking their chops at the thought of hiring Jim Hendry to be their GM.
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Just North of Wrigley Field
by jameslcrockett on Jan 19, 2011 6:02 PM CST up reply actions
Don't be so sure about that.
I suspect he’d get several offers if he ever left the Cubs.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
I don't know how you can possibly make that bold of a
statement regarding Jim Hendry when most of the MLB prognosticators were surprised that he would be given the responsibility of finding Lou’s successor.
Neither I nor the "MLB prognosticators" know everything.
But I do know Hendry is held in high regard in the industry.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
I'm more optimistic than I used to be
I think it started with the Quade hiring. I was so sure that Ryno was going to get the job just because of who he was. It just seemed like such a typical Cubs move. It would have been a PR bonanza & had all the Cubs meatball homers in a frenzy. “yayy Ryno!!!” Instead, Hendry chose who he thought was right & Ricketts supported his decision. I saw that as a refreshing change of pace.
"It's important in life to not give a shit. It can help you a lot." - George Carlin
i dont understand
the “logic” that says the cubs need a lefthanded starter. if you had 5 tom seavers would you need a lefty?
by Roman the greek on Jan 19, 2011 6:38 PM CST reply actions
That's kind of the point
who has 5 Tom Seavers? Most mlb rotations are made of mostly 2,3,3,4,5 quality pitchers. It’s kind of helpful to brake up the rotation with a lefty if for only the reason to give an opponent different look.
Thanks Al
let’s all keep this the most civil, intelligent, and best place to discuss Cubs baseball.
Being optimist is one thing, but being civil to one another is quite another. I’ve been a member for a few years, and for the most part have stopped commenting because of the negativity. I hoped BCB was be a welcoming place where I could come for Cubs news, opinions and conversation, without all the hate.
We are all individuals with individual minds, able to speak freely, but disagreeing with someone else to the point of calling them a moron or stupid or getting into a flat out fight is so unnecessary. We all have opinions and should be able to voice them without the hate. If our opinions differ, fine, let’s move on, but I should be able to post without fear of the reply I may receive.
I think Al and Josh and whomever else is responsible for this site do a great job of keeping out politics and cussing, but the hate speech has got to go. It has become such a part of our society, it would be nice to have a place to go where I don’t have to hear/ read the constant negative. Baseball is just a game, when you can’t voice your opinion about your favorite team, you really have to stop and ask why.
I can't sleep with THAT thing crying.
Hate Speech? Um......please.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Jan 19, 2011 7:01 PM CST up reply actions 2 recs
I'm as perplexed by that one as you are.
In fact I would love to see the term “hate speech” thrown out of the english lexicon as well as words like vitriol and rhetoric.
I don't think the words "Hate Speech" means what you think they mean.
"Oh Crap"
-Famous Last Words by General George Custer
by BoVandy on Jan 19, 2011 8:41 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
So ... if someone disagrees with you in a civil manner,
It’s still defined as “hate speech”? I’m not sure I follow. There is hardly anything of this “hate speech” you rail against anymore.
I didn't believe it last August, but it turns out that love survives.
State high point count: 3/50
Beat the Chicago Bears, THEN I'll talk about the Packers being in the Super Bowl. But not until that happens.
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Jan 19, 2011 10:31 PM CST up reply actions
I don't claim to be the most eloquent writer or speaker
all I’m saying is wouldn’t it nice to post your opinion without someone else responding in a negative way. The name calling, the insults, the wanting to pick fights or hampering over a typo or meaning makes this a place I don’t want to be very often.
When I said “hate speech”, I wasn’t referring to the general meaning. I was talking about the hateful dialogue that so frequently is used by so many on BCB.
I can't sleep with THAT thing crying.
Name calling and insults are definitely wrong...
…but “picking fights” is kinda-sorta what a community like this is all about. What you call “picking fights,” others may call “challenging your opinion or idea.” That said, one does have to thicken one’s skin a bit to last here.
Contributing Editor, SB Nation Chicago. Please follow us on Twitter!
by daver on Jan 20, 2011 12:30 PM CST up reply actions 4 recs
+1
And rec’d.
Without the debate, this would be a much less interesting site.
I prefer to take the road
of posting luke-warm things that cant be bashed…this way I can hide behind my participation trophies
I've been known to walk that road myself.
Contributing Editor, SB Nation Chicago. Please follow us on Twitter!
yep. tough but knowledgeable crowd
gets out of hand in the game threads sometimes, but mostly you have do have to toughen up a bit, which is why I like it so much around here, I confess. That, and Al’s maintenance of low-level swearing which just gets flat out boring on other blogs which are basically of the “why bother thinking when you just can swear?” variety.
Agreed.
There’s plenty of other places on the Web where one can rattle off F-bombs indiscriminantly.
Contributing Editor, SB Nation Chicago. Please follow us on Twitter!
this is why I enjoy
watching the same Bill Cosby comedy special over and over as opposed to some of the new guys…actually funny vs fart jokes and cuss words
by hansman1982 on Jan 22, 2011 12:38 PM CST up reply actions
What I find amazing
is how some people are able to track individual posters’ opinions from thread to thread and month to month. Sure, I see a few people who take strong views on a particular topic, like the Garza trade, that can last a couple weeks. But a month later, I honestly don’t remember who was positive and who was negative on previous topics. Am I that old? (shut up)
Also, in general there are always going to be some people who like any move more than other people do. There’s really no need to jump from “Hey, someone doesn’t like this move” to “There are a bunch of people on here who just hate Hendry or are miserable cusses.” Just discuss and debate the move itself. Chances are if someone has been down on multiple moves, there’s a consistent logic behind it. Or, if someone has been more positive about a string of moves, they have their reasons. Just because one person disagrees with you doesn’t mean there are hordes of idiots on BCB.
No one should be untouchable on this roster unless his name is Eliot Ness...or Starlin Castro.
by cubzfan on Jan 19, 2011 6:57 PM CST reply actions 1 recs
We have come to expect
such wisdom from our absent minded professor. I’d love to see a paper from one of your business students on the impact of a GM towards the success of a baseball team. And what do the most successful GMs have in common. I’ll even grade the papers.
If a quality pitching start is 3 runs and 6 innings, then a quality hitting day is 1 for 4.
Al, I appreciate the fact that you put
in the time and effort to help provide a place for us pessimists to vent, however, might I suggest you adding a little pessimism to your repertoire, I promise it won’t hurt in fact it might add a few years to your life.
The life of the optimistic Cubs fan is filled with the highs of expectations and the lows of annual let downs. The misplaced optimism in signings like Bradley and Jones to the lows of reality settling back into it’s easy chair.
BTW, I think I would put the admission about being optimistic about Bradley and Jones back in it’s holster, there is a fine line between being overly optimistic and needing to seek professional help.
I don't think you really mean "pessimism".
I think you mean, constructive critiquing when it’s deserved. That, I can do.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
Perspective from a long time fanatic lurker
I’m a serious lurker :) While my post count is probably less than 10, I read the blog /every/ day. Well, actually multiple times a day… rss subscription at work to read articles, check on phone while waiting anywhere, come home in evening and skim through comments.
I first got hooked mainly because of Colin Wyers’ comments. By the time he was gone I was hooked to the community. I generally don’t post b/c the entire spectrum of opinions are generally covered by the time I get to a thread.
I have always thought the site and discourse benefited from the ‘bad guy’. That was true when it was the villified BLou and is true even when the ‘bad guy’ is not as obnoxious but played a counter point to the generally “drowning-in-KOOL-AID stereo type of Cubs Fans”.
I am generally credited with being very frank. So I’ll get to the reason I figured it was worth posting.
Al, I think you have been in a bit of an identity crisis here the past year. Your post mentions that you get asked what your role is and you say you are a blogger, reporter, and a columnist.
I personally believe that, while relevant and mostly well written, your articles are only a springboard here. I actually believe your best and most important role is as a community manager and catalyst.
The community is why people are coming here. Content is cheap and easily available. Great content is all over the place…. big media and small. Community like this is difficult to find.
Al, there are times where I think you don’t nurture the community. Some of it is as benign as heavy handed approach to FanPost vs FanShots…. others are by using the bully-pulpit to stifle opposing opinions.
As your connections with the media and cubs organization have grown – there has seemed to be even greater support the party line… Makes me wonder how compatible the goals of a community manager are with the goals of a reporter.
by otherones on Jan 19, 2011 7:27 PM CST reply actions 4 recs
Your reference to Colin Wyers
reminds of a lot of old friends who have left. Some went to A League of Her Own, but most just seem to have disappeared. It natural for people to move on for one reason or another, but I really miss many of them. I stayed here because I don’t think another blog would put up with me and even if they did the snarky responses would wear me down.
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either
by Doggie Stalker on Jan 19, 2011 7:42 PM CST up reply actions
Colin has fairly regular articles on BaseballProspectus
… however they are almost always member only.
Colin posts on FanGraphs and BP and Mariners' sites.
"The riches of the game are in the thrills, not the money." --Ernie Banks
I did not mean just Colin
A lot of friends have passed through here.
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either
by Doggie Stalker on Jan 19, 2011 10:21 PM CST up reply actions
I wish some of those old-timers could return once in a while.
I know we won’t see Gary Varsho anymore, but I hope people like cwyers and others could check in from time to time.
I didn't believe it last August, but it turns out that love survives.
State high point count: 3/50
Beat the Chicago Bears, THEN I'll talk about the Packers being in the Super Bowl. But not until that happens.
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Jan 20, 2011 5:58 PM CST up reply actions
Well said, sir, recommended.
"The riches of the game are in the thrills, not the money." --Ernie Banks
This is exactly how I feel about BCB
I know Al likes to say that BCB is not a message board, and I think that is right. I would never spend the amount of time that I spend here on the Cubs.com or ESPN.com message boards. But, honestly I come here more for the community than the front page articles.
Most of the other blogs in the Cubs blogosphere either have a very small community, or engage in very serious groupthink. I actually don’t think that there is a lot of groupthink here. On almost every major topic you are going to get multiple opinions here. Some I agree with, some I disagree with. But, I feel like I have a pretty good idea of how a broad cross-section of Cubs fans feel after reading a story + the comments here.
I think Al needs to be very careful not to lose that. He is helped by the fact that SBNation’s commenting and FanPost and Fanshot technology is vastly superior to Wordpress and other blogging software, but allowing multiple opinions is the life-blood of this community.
I don't think we're in any danger of losing that.
I do want a broad spectrum of opinions here. There are a lot of people I disagree with here, but can have a civil discussion with. That’s what I want to keep.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
Well put.
I am interested in Al’s take on things and really enjoy his game previews/recaps. But BCB is, without a doubt, a great place to crowdsource ideas and opinions as well as just get a broad perspective on what many different kinds of Cubs fans are thinking.
Contributing Editor, SB Nation Chicago. Please follow us on Twitter!
You raise some good points...
…but I’m curious as to specifically how Al stifles opposing opinions. As I’m wont to point out, the only way Al can truly censor anyone is by deleting their comments/Fanposts/Fanshots. Is that what you’re asserting here?
Contributing Editor, SB Nation Chicago. Please follow us on Twitter!
There's a reason
I was asking about Cantu. Last year, in a down year he had 50 rbis, he’s under 30, looking to bounce back, could be had on the cheap I’m guessing…
It would have to be as cheap as possible...
but do yourself a favor and stop looking at RBIs. He might be a decent pickup as a right-handed complement to Carlos Pena, but he can’t be counted on to play 2nd and maybe not even 3rd. I’m pretty worried about how he didn’t look passable after moving over to hit in Texas. For the minimum, or a minor-league invite, maybe. But, since the Cubs have almost no chance of competing this year, I’d rather they go with a signing that would have more upside such as a six-year minor leaguer or someone from their own system.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Just North of Wrigley Field
by jameslcrockett on Jan 19, 2011 8:23 PM CST up reply actions
Last year was a down year for Pena and we didn't get him on the cheap.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Jan 19, 2011 11:10 PM CST up reply actions
Perhaps not...
…but it’s pretty feasible that Pena will at least equal if not exceed his contract value if you accept the premise that 1 WAR on the free agent market is worth ~$5 million.
Contributing Editor, SB Nation Chicago. Please follow us on Twitter!
Shouldn't Fangraphs value reflect that wins over replacement become more valuable as you go up?
It seems to me that each additional win over replacement is worth more than the one prior.
I mean, no one wants to pay the 1 WAR guy $5MM. And at the same time, it’s worth more than $10M to move from the 3 WAR guy to the 5 WAR guy.
I think that if Fangraphs took this into consideration, they wouldn’t wind up with conclusions like “Glendon Rusch was worth $8MM in 2005 when the league batted .302/.357/.449 against him.” Or maybe I just need to start buying into B-R’s WAR instead.
MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown
you're talking about
the marginal value of a win, which some work has been done on and really is at the root of most people’s issue with Garza (adding him doesn’t add enough to make a real difference)
the problem is that kind of stuff is very hard to separate out, because each players marginal value is relative to their team. It’s usually the type of analysis that is done just on teams and just on teams that are contending making acquisitions
as to the difference between B-R and Fangraphs, just think of it this way for pitchers.
B-R is measuring the WAR of the production, what actually took place on the field.
Fangraphs is measuring the WAR of the components, basically what SHOULD have happened on the field when neutralizing defense across teams
follow me on twitter for fantasy sports analysis @http://twitter.com/DrewDinkmeyer or get the full analysis at www.fantistics.com
by DartmouthCubsFan on Jan 20, 2011 6:34 PM CST up reply actions
You'll have to take up the math with them.
I believe a key point, however, is that the $5 MM per WAR is specific to the free agent market. This is probably just my own laziness showing through, but I find it a very helpful number/concept.
Contributing Editor, SB Nation Chicago. Please follow us on Twitter!
He didn't get a multi-year deal.
I’d say that is getting him somewhat on the cheap.
Ive heard Fantasy analyst expecting a big year
One guy said he expected 37-42 homeruns with the move to Wrigley.
Yeah, Pena hit 28 home runs in a down year...
…in the worst hitter’s park in baseball. It really doesn’t seem that big of a stretch to think he’ll hit 30-35, assuming he stays healthy. And, hey, if he wants to go as high as 37-42, I certainly won’t be complaining.
Contributing Editor, SB Nation Chicago. Please follow us on Twitter!
I'm just hoping he is healthy enough to add 30 points or so to his batting average
Because that is the way he will add 30 points to his OBP and 50 or so points to his OPS – Pena got all he could out of a .196 BA in 2010.
If he is getting hits, the HRs will come.
It is nearly an impossibility
for a team in America’s 3rd largest city to sell “we are rebuilding” to the fan base, or the 22,000 season ticket holders who pay some of the highest prices in baseball – particularly when compared to the lack of success the team has enjoyed.
I have always maintained that Jim Hendry is probably at the top of the bottom third of the GM list.
What I wouldn’t give for Epstein, Cash, Jocketty, Schuerholdz…
Every GM screws up on trades and signings. However, often the team recovers in a couple years. With some signings Hendry has made this is not as easy with NTC’s and bizarre (Soriano, Pierre, The Wideout). To his credit, 2008 was a year everything went right except at the crucial moment. Who could guess that Demp would walk 30 guys and allow a Grand Slam kissing the game good-bye?
Hendry made a terrific signing of DeRo and Lilly, and of course every supporter discusses DLee and A-Ram for a bucket of balls. However, I have always felt that there just is no “plan” until very recently. Everything has always slapped together with FA signings, and a rookie would get lucky now and then. This to me is not what we as fans deserve nor what a team in a Major Market deserves. Why should a town like St. Louis have their baseball team always in the hunt for a Pennant, and not Chicago’s Northsiders? I’ll tell you why: the organization from top to bottom is run with the expectation of winning, and the talent they have evaluating talent both drafts and FA’s are a step above the Cubs, and have been for 50 years.
It is maddening!
The one recent thing that Hendry has done which is finally a step in the right direction has been Tim Wilken. THANK the BASEBALL GODS!
So Al, you and I disagree on many things, but we both want the same thing: A World Series Championship. And I believe we as fans with our huge financial, emotional and large Civic Pride investment deserve better than what this team has given us.
If you do not wish your team to win it all every year, if one’s expectations are not that you want your team to blow away the competition, then maybe high school sports are the way to go.
Well said.
You & I disagree on Hendry. You think he’s in the bottom third. I’d put him more in the middle of the pack.
On the rest, you are right on. Let’s hope at least 2011 shows improvement and that the team is headed in the right direction.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
Let's hope so, in 2011
Al.
I have low expectations and will probably eat more tickets this year.
But, if we can see results of the up and coming talent, and a solid year from the pitching staff, plus better situational hitting, it will be more entertaining than last year with the arrow pointing up at the end of the year. Which will be a breath of fresh air!
I guess we don't love our losers anymore..
So, that makes us just like the rest of the Chicago fanbase. People complain about Thibideaux’s coaching decisions, the “god-awful” bears secondary, and how bad (insert teams)‘s front office is. Maybe it’s the Economy, but it’s probably that we expected more from this team the last couple of years and didn’t get it…
by DisCUBbobulated on Jan 19, 2011 9:34 PM CST reply actions
Win or lose, isn't loving the Cubs the definition of a Cubs fan?
If the Cubs still have a chance, no matter how small, it’s still Go Cubs, damn the math and pass the KoolAid.
HA!!
let’s all keep this the most civil, intelligent, and best place to discuss Cubs baseball.
BCB will never be correctly defined as civil.
"Don't stop now, Boys.".....Hawk Harrelson
by bigz38fan on Jan 19, 2011 10:24 PM CST reply actions 1 recs
Based on what?
The tone is mostly civil here, and I want to keep it that way.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
It's interesting how...
…one segment of the blogosphere seems to think BCB is too uptight and straight-laced and another finds it so unruly.
Contributing Editor, SB Nation Chicago. Please follow us on Twitter!
Agreed, and agreed to dat cub, too.
"The riches of the game are in the thrills, not the money." --Ernie Banks
The way I see it,
It’s equal parts of both.
I didn't believe it last August, but it turns out that love survives.
State high point count: 3/50
Beat the Chicago Bears, THEN I'll talk about the Packers being in the Super Bowl. But not until that happens.
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Jan 20, 2011 5:58 PM CST up reply actions
Sorry if someone already said this,
I didn’t go through the hundreds of comments already in this thread. As a Rays fan, almost as much as I am a Cubs fan (I’ll admit, I didn’t really start liking them until the Naimoli group was out), I watched about 80 Rays games last season. The problem with Pena is that he’s done, its not that he might get hurt, its that he is going to suck, so that was a waste of money, and for a team that is trying to spend less money this was a bad move.
The problem with the Garza trade is that he’s pretty good, but we, as rational people, have to understand that this Cubs team isn’t going to compete this year, and to trade away the farm for a guy who’s pretty good to play on a team that isn’t going to compete is pretty stupid. The Rays are known as one of the teams that evaluate cheap young talent better than some of the wealthier clubs, ala Moneyball or whatever. The whole deal reeks of Hendry getting duped.
This is a team that needs to rebuild at every position, and every time the Cubs are presented with this obvious rebuild scenario, they do the exact same thing: trade prospects for a pitcher who’s still pretty good and sign a pricey free agent to fill a vacant starting position. This formula never worked under the Tribune regime, and now under the Rickett’s regime, it looks like a shameless way to drum up hopes of potential ticket buyers who only casually follow baseball.
So, yeah I think there are a few things to be negative about, sorry. I like the feel good story about the Wood deal and I think he’ll be good for the few times he’ll be needed in the setup role with this team. BUT, is there anyone out there who thinks Hendry should be in charge of a rebuilding effort, considering his most savvy trade was the one that brought us Ramirez from the Pirates (the dumbest organization in pro sports) and who’s dumbest move was paying Soriano like he’s the second coming of Babe Ruth for what seems like a decade.
BTW
I really hope that the Pena signing and the Garza trades work out. There’s really nothing I’d like more than for this bunch to win the division. I just don’t think they’re good enough to win it. The Reds and the Cards just look too good this year. I probably won’t stop watching either… maybe I’m a masochist, lol.
As I state above
a “rebuilding” scenario just will not fly in Chicago. Tampa, Pittsburgh, Milwaukee, KC, Phoenix, Miami, et. al. no problem.
While your discussion is valid under normal conditions, and the “wise” thing to do.
However, with fan expectations so high, and all of the financials riding on numbers like ADVERTISING (i.e., who is going to watch a 70-win team for a couple years), it just ain’t gonna happen.
IF you were running the team I can see what you’d do. And it would be prudent. However, it just ain’t gonna be the Rickett’s way.
The braintrust are going to try to stay “competitive” in order to put butts in the seats.
I would love
to watch a 70 win team for a couple years if it were a bunch of kids. I think most cubs fans know enough about how baseball works these days to understand that sometimes it’s necessary to start over. The window of opportunity shut on this bunch a few years ago. Start over and build a real and parennial contender… Who wouldn’t like that?
by ChrisInFla on Jan 20, 2011 12:15 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
The problem with that is...
…. that most casual fans won’t watch that. Attendance could drop 30-40%. Then there wouldn’t be money around to buy the players you want to add to that rebuilding.
This team can’t do that.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
I know,
one can hope though. Anyway, I think they’ll start to get better when they can start playing with the money stuck in some of the long term bad contracts. If Hendry is still around at that point, hopefully he’ll have learned a few things from his mistakes.
At least everybody’s in first on opening day!
Also,
I forgot to say this in the last comment (not sure if there’s an edit function, I can’t find it): I should note that at least the Pena thing is only for one year and that’s a huge step in the right direction. I just hope he doesn’t strike out all the time like he did at Tampa.
Pena does strike out a lot.
But he also walks a lot. That has value.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
Adam. Dunn.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Jan 21, 2011 11:10 AM CST up reply actions
Oh, come on.
Four years, $60 million would have been a terrible contract for any NL team to give Dunn. I for one am very glad we passed there.
had Hendry given Dunn that contract
I would have stormed Wrigley and thrown him from the bleachers….
by hansman1982 on Jan 22, 2011 12:41 PM CST up reply actions
That point alone tells me the Cubs are better
In the past, the stands were always full for the bad teams. We’ve (fans) progressed to stop blindly following their mediocrity and demanding better. I, for one, would look back and be glad we rebuilt if we could point to that moment as the starting point for a currents WS contender.
Al, would you consider the year(s) leading up to '07 & '08
‘rebuilding years’. If so, I’ll take it.
Not really.
2005 was a last gasp with the ‘03 crew. 2006 was a disaster after Derrek Lee’s injury.
The philosophy changed when Soriano and Lilly were signed and Lou was hired.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
Al, sorry for posting this here
But, do you have a link to the schedule showing which games are Gold, Platinum or Bronze. For some reason I can’t find it anywhere.
Sorry, just saw this.
You can find it here. At the bottom of the page, there are tabs that you can click which show the games in each category.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
The Pena and Garza deals may or may not work out, but they represent a major improvement by Cubs management..
Pena only got one year, and I can live with a $10 million mistake for one year much more than a $120 million mistake for 7. The fact that we had to sign him means we still have work to do on the farm, but that’s getting better and there were not a lot of other options that wouldn’t have demanded another stupid contract. Garza is a solid, not spectacular player, but even as only a #2 or #3 starter is a bird in hand vs the hoped for ceilings of prospects which we’d have to wait fo figure out. His salary structure will stay under $10 million for the next few years at least, and much less than that in 2011. This is part of a good payroll strategy that I hope continues – getting a #2 or #3 starting pitcher or solid position player that can hit .280 and drive in runs for $5-10 million is prioritizing value, a welcome change and worth the prospects. I actually hope they do more of this, and this is the first really smart thing I’ve seen the front office do in quite awhile.
by DisCUBbobulated on Jan 20, 2011 2:20 AM CST up reply actions
Thank you Al
If the Cubs still have a chance, no matter how small, it’s still Go Cubs, damn the math and pass the KoolAid.
We better keep track of the payroll
Im going to be pissed if Rickets doesnt put that extra money into the draft while keeping ticket prices the same.
If cubs arent atleast a 81 win team and Garza doesnt at least become a solid #2 It’ll get ugly for Hendry
Not worthy of a post, but this FanGraphs note sums up a Cubs move that I really, really like.
"The riches of the game are in the thrills, not the money." --Ernie Banks
2011 is the year.
I, too, have acute Santo-itis because I feel every year in winter and spring, even if the off-season moves seem somewhat questionable, that this is the year. That is almost what spring is there for, to be optimistic as your team starts 0-0. I have enough jaded sense as a Cubs fan to also be hoping that I won’t be bailing on my optimism come June.
When posters write off the Cubs in 2011 by stating something to the effective of “obviously we can’t compete in 2011”, I want to know how they know this. Where they not alive in ‘84 or ’89? Or even ’07? (I would hope so as far as ’07 is concerned, otherwise I’m spending way too much time reading interent babble from some damn intellegent three-year olds). Yes, the easier bet or prediction is that the Cubs will fail miserably in 2011. History is definitely on the doomsayers side when it comes to the Cubs. All you have to do is hit that same button over and over, sit back and, congratulations, you’re an internet genius. I choose to see, or even search for, the light between the cracks, at least in winter and spring. I realize this can be just as blinding as only harping on the negative.
Also, negativety sells. “Name Redacted Helps Old Lady Cross the Street” would garner about 20 comments and fall by the wayside quickly. “Name Redacted Spits In Old Lady’s Eye” would probably receive hundreds of responses. I think the newspapers figure that out a long time ago.
It also appears from the sidebar trade polls that the negative posters post their views and opinions more often than the positive ones. I was shocked that the Garza trade was deemed so positively by the voters, and that the Gorzelanny trade was not deemed as horribly as it seemed in the post about it. We have seen Al take some of these more vocal posters on, and it seems like he is battling a certain posse of them almost daily. I feel like Al represents an almost silent majority a lot of the time when he does this. And I appreciate all the swash-buckling he does, and I am thankful because that makes me feel like I don’t have to get my hands dirty and dive into the fray. Sometimes defending Hendry and/or the Cubs can come out as being pro-Hendry or pro-Cubs. Presenting one’s views on here can cause people to be pigeon-holed or forced into a corner that they might not be in as much as it appears.
"I'd rather hit home runs you don't have to run as hard." -- Dave Kingman
by BucknerKongCardenal on Jan 20, 2011 10:28 AM CST reply actions 1 recs
It seems more like a Chicago tradition
I agree that Hendry has screwed up from time to time. But the whole get rid of him sounds like the “Impeach McCaskey”, and constant booing of “Dollar” Bill Wirtz (RIP). The fan bases of each of those franchises got tired of waiting for the “promised land” and had to take it out on some figure head. {It only took Moses 40 years!} For the Bears it was Mike McCaskey, the Hawks had “Dollar” Bill, and (for now) The Cubs have Hendry.
Though I don’t think it would happen, but how would the “fanbase” react to Hendry signing Pujols, or Fielder next off season?
Proud member of the Lee Elia 15% club!
The Chicago tradition might be bad owners.
Read this Forbes article about how badly the McCaskeys have screwed up ownership of the Bears.
Not a fan talking but a level-headed business writer discussing the absurd undervalue of what should be one of the most valuable franchises is all of sports.
And do you really think the booing of Wirtz was unwarranted? His son couldn’t even believe what he was doing and changed a lot of it within days of taking over the team.
These people aren’t the victims of unreasonable cranks. They were or have been really bad at their jobs for long stretches of time.
Hendry, who has done some good and screwed up many things during his tenure, has probably caught some additional hell because the team was owned for decades by a faceless corporate entity. Should they fail for a stretch under the Ricketts, I think they too will face the brunt of fans’ ire. And guess what? It will no doubt be well placed.
You forgot Arthur Wirtz too for the 'Hawks
No owner in this city before and perhaps for the next century SCREWED over their fan base for nearly 4 consecutive decades like Arthur and Bill Wirtz did with the Blackhawks.
Hendry isn’t close, even the same ballpark (no pun) or on Waveland Ave (this one’s for you BallHawk). McCaskey is barely in the ballpark.
Just win the next game...!
The McCaskeys aren't as bad as the Wirtz family but that's only because Arthur and Bill
set the bar so outrageously high (or low)
If the Bears were a publicly traded company the stock holders would have kicked the McCaskeys out on their asses twenty years ago. The Forbes article reasons that the Bears should be worth about $800,000 more than they are right now. So they are undervalued by roughly the value of the Chicago Cubs.
This is true though Forbes has been off by 30%+ in the past
but I do get your point.
On fan-screwing, the [old] Blackhawks took the ‘prize’.
Just win the next game...!
Off-Seasons Suck!
"I'll tell you what's helped me my entire life. I look at baseball as a game. It's something where people can go out, enjoy and have fun. Nothing more."
by KaliCub on Jan 20, 2011 3:08 PM CST reply actions 5 recs
Green'ed.
I didn't believe it last August, but it turns out that love survives.
State high point count: 3/50
Beat the Chicago Bears, THEN I'll talk about the Packers being in the Super Bowl. But not until that happens.
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Jan 20, 2011 5:59 PM CST up reply actions
Thanks Al for your great Blog/community
It’s a site to see!
The Garza trade I think will prove especially helpful as he was a very good 4-6? man on a topline AL rotation. He’s quite the a-hole when it comes to temper, but this team needs both fire and a mirror for fellow rotation member and uber redass zambrano.
Pena will hit a lot, Byrd will perform well, and would love to keep Aram healthy and prodigious all season. Interested in Shark’s development also.
Pitchers and catchers report very soon, and a few players well before then – Demp has been working out for major portions of the winter here :)
Can’t wait!
"Hey Hey, Holy mackerel, no doubt about it,!"
by scottsdalecubs on Jan 20, 2011 10:35 PM CST reply actions
I am not sure what enticed this latest post, and I haven’t read any comments, but I can say this is the way things seem to go now. We are in the ESPN era, where negative news sells. Where over analizing is promoted. Many that post online are in the TMZ nation that belief it is better to post something negative about someone in the chance you are right, rather than go out on a limb with optimism. It is hard to argue with facts optimism. I doubt there was facts supporting the Padres, Rangers or even Giants being so good last year. It sure was fun to watch those teams as baseball fans.
Just know there are a group (probably older) diehards that enjoy the blog for a “real” insite to what is or why something is going on. Stay yourself and please don’t let negative nellies ruin what is good. Stay Positive…
Just so we are clear.
Just so we are clear. 1. Kerry Wood signing is great for these reasons in order, I have a Wood jersey that I can now where, he is the vet in the BP we were lacking last year, he will offer some BP reshuffling to set us up and give depth, pushing the young guys into more comfortable roles.
Pena will be just fine success or not he is a good gamble. Lefty, with D, and power, in a contract year.
Garza yes we gave up a ton, but really so what. You want the free agent stud, and you want the developed phenom. You usually don’t get both as the free agent blocks the phenom. Sometimes you have to go for proven and Garza even at his worst will be solid.
The last super phenom that worked from our system, Zambrano
Which brings me to why I am optimistic about this year. Zambrano, Ramirez, and Soriano. I wish I could come up with a catchy nickname for these three. This isn’t their team any longer, they are being pushed. Both from the minors and on their own team. Forget the booing and constant critisim. Athletes don’t like to look bad, each has something to prove. Each I believe will be held accountable. LOVE IT… LOVE THEM.. Cant wait for P& C
by Sandbergforprez on Jan 21, 2011 7:05 AM CST reply actions
nice… where or wear… there or their…. What a dork I am..
by Sandbergforprez on Jan 21, 2011 7:08 AM CST reply actions
Just so we are clear
just so we are clear…
i know funny. I was on a role then phone rang like 4 times…
by Sandbergforprez on Jan 21, 2011 8:31 AM CST up reply actions
What role were you on?
The role of a doctor? Parent? The role of a BCB spelling champion?
One of these maybe?

If the Cubs still have a chance, no matter how small, it’s still Go Cubs, damn the math and pass the KoolAid.
the reason
cub fans are so negative and critical is because the team always finds a way to screw things up in the end. i mean 5 outs away?????
and for
all the doubters who have already given up on the 2011 season.at least wait until the all star break.
Al, You've always seemed fair and honest to me
and I believe you call it like you see it. I understand running this blog you are under constant criticism and you always try to stay even-keeled.
I appreciate all of your hard work on this site.
Jon

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