Another View Of The Gorzelanny Deal

From George Castle.

over 1 year ago Al Yellon 41 comments 0 recs |

Comments

here's hoping that Grabow has a nice bounce back year

The bullpen could – could - be outstanding. Perhaps one of the best in all of baseball. They have one of the top closers, plus lefthanded and righthanded setup guys. If Guzman can come back, this could be a really, really strong plus for the Cubs.

by jerry morales rules on Jan 20, 2011 10:33 AM CST reply actions

Guh

He spends the entire article saying you don’t need a lefty starter and then ends with this gem:

Still, a left-handed starter always comes in handy, and GM Jim Hendry should not go a full season without trying to find one.

I for one hope Hendry is not trying to find a lefty starter before the end of the season. Hendry decided we didn’t need one. Stick with that decision.

by JSB on Jan 20, 2011 10:38 AM CST reply actions

Seconded

by CubFan90 on Jan 20, 2011 10:46 AM CST up reply actions

Thirded.

If you have five good RH starters, that should be enough to be a winning team.

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al Yellon on Jan 20, 2011 11:05 AM CST up reply actions

Wow

Yeah – I haven’t read much of Mr. Castle’s writing – but this really didn’t seem like a very well-written article. Just a recitation of facts and a conclusion that seemed edited in by another writer. Honestly, reading it, I was reminded of Ivy Wall’s frequent contributions here.

I agree though – the bullpen could be really strong. Having a healthy Guzman or a 2009 Caridad would really be outstanding.

On a sidenote, is the best guess that Silva is long man out of the bullpen now?

by John916 on Jan 20, 2011 11:10 AM CST up reply actions

I think George Castle might be IvyWalls

1-sentence paragraphs and the like.

I found this sentence to be kind of amusing as well:

And now, Andrew Cashner, likely ticketed for the rotation due to Kerry Wood’s return for setup duties, does not have to pitch like a No. 3 starter, which means good enough to win 13 to 15 games.

by JSB on Jan 20, 2011 1:00 PM CST up reply actions

Wow

That’s priceless!

by John916 on Jan 20, 2011 3:25 PM CST up reply actions

Also

The article did remind me of how much I disliked Shawn Estes that one year. It seemed every game he pitched, we were down big after a couple innings. But damn, that last game he threw, he REALLY stepped it up.

by John916 on Jan 20, 2011 11:12 AM CST reply actions

What a poorly written article.

Lilly was a Cub for 3 1/2 years. J.D. Drew wasn’t even a Cardinal after 2003. The Cubs aren’t paying Carlos Silva $11.5 million.

I don’t disagree with Castle’s larger point, that you don’t need a lefty starter to be a good team. But still, this is really sloppy work.

by elgato on Jan 20, 2011 11:51 AM CST reply actions 5 recs

Agreed

n/t

by John916 on Jan 20, 2011 11:56 AM CST up reply actions

It was bad

Below par for even a fanpost.

by JSB on Jan 20, 2011 12:55 PM CST up reply actions

is this really another view of the Gorzo deal

or just a bunch of rambling about previous Cubs teams and our big failures in the playoffs?

by hansman1982 on Jan 20, 2011 2:21 PM CST reply actions

God, what a terrible article

no wonder George Castle isn’t writing for any newspapers anymore.

by Bad Midget on Jan 20, 2011 2:29 PM CST reply actions

This guy used to write for a major newspaper?

Frightening.

by JSB on Jan 20, 2011 3:13 PM CST via mobile up reply actions

And

He’s written several books on the Cubs. Never had the chance to read one.

by John916 on Jan 20, 2011 3:27 PM CST up reply actions

I erred on Lilly, but you guys didn't get the historical angle

OK, you guys got me on Lilly’s length of service with the Cubs. However, I don’t think you all understood the context of the piece, written for RantSports.com. I wasn’t grinding over the Gorzelanny deal. I was using that trade to show the Cubs historically don’t put much importance on left-handed starters, but somehow have muddled into playoffs without much southpaw help. They even had a survey four decades ago that wrongly stated lefties can’t succeed in Wrigley Field. My conclusion was after all that, Hendry ought to restore a lefty to the rotation. J.D. Drew? Well, eight or so years ago, the Cubs kept trying to find a lefty to slow down Drew and Jim Edmonds. Shawn Estes was one of the candidates who didn’t exactly succeed.

Amazingly, none of you have apparently read my 7 or 8 books on the Cubs since 1998 nor my Times of NW Indiana Cubs coverage since 1994, which has included numerous scoops, including the startling admission by Andy MacPhail in 2005 that he preferred his front office be understaffed: “I’d rather be one man too short than one man too heavy.” What have you been reading all that time? I had a column on Zambrano from the Cubs Convention that had his quotes and speculated he might be forced to be calmer this year because he’s adopting an infant son from Guatemala. You might have stumbled on that via Google or other links if you weren’t reading the Times.

by GeorgeCastle on Jan 20, 2011 3:42 PM CST reply actions 1 recs

I read your one

on the ’08 the Cubs. Forget what it was called, but it was pretty interesting.

by Bad Midget on Jan 20, 2011 3:54 PM CST up reply actions

Sweet Lou and the Cubs

That was the title of the book centered around Lou and the ’08 Cubs. I had to do some fancy writing, twisting and turning, to put a finish on that book, given how that season ended.

by GeorgeCastle on Jan 20, 2011 4:14 PM CST up reply actions

Ahh, that's the one, thanks

I vividly remember reading something (in the book) how mad Lou was when Erin Andrews was parading through the locker room in one of the smallest dresses he’d ever seen lol.

by Bad Midget on Jan 20, 2011 4:34 PM CST via mobile up reply actions

On Erin Andrews

That was the second time in a few weeks Erin turned heads around the Cubs. At Wrigley earlier, she showed up in a canary-yellow cocktail-type dress that turned every head around the dugout. BTW, Lou wasn’t mad, he was just needling Erin, who practically took over the locker room that day at Miller Park.

by GeorgeCastle on Jan 20, 2011 4:37 PM CST up reply actions

Your article on Gorzo may have had a couple holes, but....

it didn’t deserve the rip job it received here George. You handled the criticism with class. It seems the world is completely overloaded with bloggers who specialize in scalding peole and finding fault while hiding behind their keyboard. Politics, sports, name it. …they’re everywhere.

"He can compress the most words into the smallest idea of any man I know. " Abraham Lincoln

by cubfever7 on Jan 21, 2011 1:29 PM CST up reply actions

Understand the 'angle' of a blog or article

I don’t mind the criticism, cubfever7, and I want readers to point out errors, because they’re embarrassing. At the same time, some of the posters here rushed to judgment and did not see the article for what it was — a historical chronicle of the Cubs’ lack of lefties, and some success in spite of that drawback. I was also surprised with the widespread unfamiliarity with my work.

by GeorgeCastle on Jan 22, 2011 2:06 PM CST up reply actions

This one?

The new skipper looks like he’s impressed. I heard she’s dating Aaron Rodgers now, so look but don’t touch, Mike!

As for the short one:

I think she’s filling out the lineup card for Lou.

"Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have?" -Frank Chance
"If [Ruth] had [called his shot], I would have knocked him down with the next pitch." -Charlie Root

by Clutch16 on Jan 21, 2011 8:16 PM CST up reply actions

Look, what did you want him to do?

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al Yellon on Jan 22, 2011 8:00 AM CST up reply actions

Canary-yellow outfit it is

Yep, Clutch16, that was the first dress. Great catch because that interesting getup got no pub compared to the patterned mini-dress she wore in Milwaukee. Wonder if Erin was suggesting to Lou he use Fukudome instead of Soriano at leadoff that night? As I recall, Lou mockingly (in fun) asked Erin if she was on a modeling assignment when he spied the second dress.

by GeorgeCastle on Jan 22, 2011 2:10 PM CST up reply actions

Well

Being from the west Chicago burbs – I read the Trib, Sun-Times and occasionally the Daily Herald. Not much need for a 4th local(ish) newspaper.

But as to your conclusion – why do you think the Cubs ought to restore a lefty to their rotation? Do you feel that finding a lefty would be wiser than seeing if Cashner can produce there? Or is your thought that Wells should be moved out of the rotation? Since we’re only going with 5 starters, and Garza/Z/Dempster are givens, what do you propose Hendry does?

by John916 on Jan 20, 2011 4:05 PM CST up reply actions

On that missing lefty

It’s likely most of those candidates will pitch themselves out of the rotation. If they could make SIlva go away, they would. Cashner is their favorite to nail down one spot. You really, really need a lefty for some kind of balance and it was too bad Lilly had a big payday due — they would have loved to keep him if $$$ wasn’t an issue. At some point the Cubs have to develop their own lefty starting prospect. Rich Hill looked like the one, but he ran afoul of Lou and then had injuries.

by GeorgeCastle on Jan 20, 2011 4:08 PM CST up reply actions

No offense to your body of work, generally.

And, as I said, I agreed with your larger point (I’ve actually said something similar on BCB since Gorzo was dealt). But you also implied that Silva’s $11.5 million salary would figure into the Cubs’ decision making — without noting that the Cubs are paying only half of that.

As for Drew/Edmonds … I don’t remember the Cubs going after another lefty starter to face those guys. Other than Estes, the only lefty starter in the early 2000s that I can think of was Scott Downs. Maybe I’m forgetting someone …

by elgato on Jan 20, 2011 4:07 PM CST up reply actions

The quest to slow the Cards

Yeah, as Prior was joining Wood, Clement and Zambrano in the rotation, the Cubs really wanted a lefty because of the lefty power in the Cards’ lineup. They never really landed one. Then they signed Maddux to fill out the rotation. Hendry went with Glendon Rusch at one point, and that sure wasn’t the answer. Gorzelanny actually pitched decently in at least half his 2010 starts, but had little run support. And when he did get runs, his control was off. The Cubs’ budget is so tight that Gorzelanny had to be dealt because he’ll make more than $2 million this year.

by GeorgeCastle on Jan 20, 2011 4:13 PM CST up reply actions

IIRC ...

Glendon Rusch was actually quite decent in 2004 and 2005. But, by that point, Drew was in Boston. I totally agree with you on Gorzo.

by elgato on Jan 20, 2011 4:17 PM CST up reply actions

A tale of 3 home-grown Cubs lefties

Making matters worse, the Cubs DID produce some promising lefties, but mishandled them. They were impatient with Larry Gura and did not give him a rotation spot in 1973. Traded, he flourished with the Yanks and KC, then came back to the Cubs as a washed-up vet in 1985. Jamie Moyer? Pitched decently in his second full season in 1988, but Don Zimmer did not like him for losing a lot of games 4-3 and 3-2, not throwing hard enough, and thinking independently. You see how Jamie’s career has turned out. And No. 1 pick Lance Dickson, rushed up from A ball all the way to Wrigley Field all in one season in 1990. Great curveball, but he got hurt.

by GeorgeCastle on Jan 20, 2011 4:32 PM CST up reply actions

I get what you're saying, George.

The Cubs, until very recently, have not done well developing or acquiring lefty starters. I’m 30, so I don’t remember much about the Cubs pre-1989, but the only lefty whom the Cubs acquired (pre-Lilly) who was any good was Greg Hibbard in the early ’90s.

by elgato on Jan 20, 2011 4:43 PM CST up reply actions

Terry Mulholland

Terry was pretty competitive in 1997-98. He started the last game of the season in Houston, throwing more than 120 pitches. The next night, before the wild-card play-in game vs. the Giants, he told Jim Riggleman he could pitch up to an inning in relief if necessary. To prove it, he heaved a baseball more than 200 feet into the LF bleachers. Riggleman called on Mulholland to face one batter in Bonds, and he had him fly to the warning track.

by GeorgeCastle on Jan 20, 2011 4:48 PM CST up reply actions

I loved Mulholland.

But his biggest contribution to the Cubs was as a reliever.

by elgato on Jan 20, 2011 4:53 PM CST up reply actions

Mullholland spot starts

Terry did well as a spot starter down the stretch in ‘98. Then they dumped him and Jose Hernandez for Micah Bowie, Joey Nation, Ruben Quevedo — all the supposed prospects the Braves really wanted to get rid off — near the trade deadline in 1999. Bowie had an ERA around 9.00 with the Cubs. Nice guy, but he couldn’t pitch. Another lefty gone bad.

by GeorgeCastle on Jan 20, 2011 4:56 PM CST up reply actions

Oh, well.

The ’99 Cubs never recovered from that loss in Phoenix in May and the sweep at Wrigley by the Sox.

by elgato on Jan 20, 2011 5:01 PM CST up reply actions

House of cards, not Cards

That ’99 club was baaaad…They were destined to collapse no matter what happened at AZ and against the Sox… Really bad pitching, key players got old…A masterpiece of roster construction by MacPhail and Lynch, the latter of whom wasted 5 1/2 years as GM

by GeorgeCastle on Jan 20, 2011 6:31 PM CST up reply actions

Agreed.

by elgato on Jan 20, 2011 7:42 PM CST up reply actions

And Danny Jackson

The former 20-game-winning lefty was one of the biggest free-agent boondoggles in Cubs history. He was constantly hurt after Jim Frey brought him aboard for the 1991 season. His failure was one of the major reasons the Cubs fell out of contention relatively early in ’91 after many picked them to win the old NL East.

by GeorgeCastle on Jan 20, 2011 4:53 PM CST reply actions

I remember the '91 season well

The first season I can remember having big expectations for the Cubs based on off-season signings. Dave Smith was also a huge disaster that season as the closer. George Bell was a third player brought over in free agency that off-season.

by JSB on Jan 20, 2011 6:34 PM CST via mobile up reply actions

'91 mess brought in Larry Himes

’91 led to Larry Himes, which further set back the organization, which brought in MacPhail, who believed in “slow, steady, unspectacular.” Cubs are STILL trying to recover from all of that!

by GeorgeCastle on Jan 20, 2011 7:24 PM CST up reply actions