ALCS Game 5, NLCS Game 4: Tigers/Rangers, Cardinals/Brewers

by Al Yellon on Oct 13, 2011 2:30 PM CDT in Chicago Cubs Game Threads

The Tigers' Justin Verlander was very good during the regular season; not only will he run away with the AL Cy Young Award, but he might well win league MVP honors as well. He hasn't been as good in the postseason; he has a 5.54 ERA and has walked seven batters in 13 playoff innings in 2011. Pitching in the rain twice didn't help matters much.

If Verlander isn't on his game this afternoon and the Rangers' C.J. Wilson is, Detroit will be going home for the winter. Verlander could help send the series back to Texas with a good performance today.

Meanwhile, in the Battle of the Waiver Wire, Randy Wolf faces Kyle Lohse in St. Louis tonight as the Brewers try to even up the series. (Kidding, mostly; these guys are pretty good for fourth starters.)

More details on today's games after the jump.

Game time for Rangers/Tigers: 3:19 pm CDT. Rangers lead series 3-1. TV: Fox. Announcers: Joe Buck and Tim McCarver.

Game time for Brewers/Cardinals: 7:05 pm. CDT. Cardinals lead series 2-1. TV: TBS. Announcers: Brian Anderson (play-by-play), Ron Darling (analyst), John Smoltz (analyst), Craig Sager (reporter).

MLB.com Gameday for ALCS Game 5

MLB.com Gameday for NLCS Game 4

SB Nation game preview for ALCS Game 5

SB Nation game preview for NLCS Game 4

This is the only thread I'm posting for today's games. If you need overflows due to extra innings or rain delays, post them in the fanshot section.

Discuss amongst yourselves.

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Comments

I want the Tigers to win...if only so I can see this a few more times...

As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.

by santoswoodenlegs on Oct 13, 2011 2:38 PM CDT reply actions 3 recs

Leland already said Valverde won't throw tonight.

So now you just look like a bigger idiot than normal.

"The riches of the game are in the thrills, not the money." --Ernie Banks

by dtpollitt on Oct 13, 2011 2:41 PM CDT up reply actions

Dude, that totally reminds me...how's your leaky colon?

As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.

by santoswoodenlegs on Oct 13, 2011 2:45 PM CDT up reply actions

I'm going to send you a greeting card from my iPhone 4S tomorrow.

I’m excited!

"The riches of the game are in the thrills, not the money." --Ernie Banks

by dtpollitt on Oct 13, 2011 2:48 PM CDT up reply actions

I hate you...

my son asked when we were all getting iPhones since they’re going to be available on Sprint now. I told him he could have one when you bought him one. I gave him your email address.

As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.

by santoswoodenlegs on Oct 13, 2011 2:51 PM CDT up reply actions

Get a room!

BTW, that’s one of your best-ever photoshops.

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by Al Yellon on Oct 13, 2011 2:52 PM CDT up reply actions

Conversation literally minutes ago:

SWL: Can we get Al to tell us to shut up today?
Sent at 2:45 PM on Thursday
me: probably not
Sent at 2:47 PM on Thursday
me: SUCCESS!!!!
SUCCESS!!!
SWL: every goddam time…“get a room”

"The riches of the game are in the thrills, not the money." --Ernie Banks

by dtpollitt on Oct 13, 2011 2:53 PM CDT up reply actions

I knew it.

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by Al Yellon on Oct 13, 2011 3:05 PM CDT up reply actions

I can imagine it now...

If the Cubs still have a chance, no matter how small, it’s still Go Cubs, damn the math and pass the KoolAid.

by eths on Oct 13, 2011 4:31 PM CDT up reply actions

That's not even close to my best work....just ask Dan.

As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.

by santoswoodenlegs on Oct 13, 2011 2:55 PM CDT up reply actions

I don't think I want to know.

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by Al Yellon on Oct 13, 2011 3:05 PM CDT up reply actions

Also,

pitchers shouldn’t win MVPs. I don’t even think they should be eligible. We have the Cy Young for that. Verlander pitched in 34 games this year. THIRTY-FOUR! That’s 20%!

"The riches of the game are in the thrills, not the money." --Ernie Banks

by dtpollitt on Oct 13, 2011 2:57 PM CDT reply actions

AL MVP = Bautista (TOR) NL MVP = Kemp (LAD)

THESE ARE THE ONLY LOGICAL CHOICES

As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.

by santoswoodenlegs on Oct 13, 2011 3:01 PM CDT up reply actions

Ellsbury, not the roid user Bautista.

"The riches of the game are in the thrills, not the money." --Ernie Banks

by dtpollitt on Oct 13, 2011 3:10 PM CDT up reply actions

you're going to have to use evidence and facts if you want to discuss this

As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.

by santoswoodenlegs on Oct 13, 2011 3:14 PM CDT up reply actions

HIgher WAR for Ellsbury. A lot higher.

His 9.4 WAR was the 127th highest single-season WAR on record.

"The riches of the game are in the thrills, not the money." --Ernie Banks

by dtpollitt on Oct 13, 2011 3:36 PM CDT up reply actions

Ellsbury is good, but he doesn't walk and his stolen bases help his WAR. I think stolen bases are overrated and therefore I pick Bautista over him for AL MVP.

As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.

by santoswoodenlegs on Oct 13, 2011 3:50 PM CDT up reply actions

The Tigers' record in those 34 games was 25-9.

What do you think it would have been if, say, Rodrigo Lopez had made those 34 starts?

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by Al Yellon on Oct 13, 2011 3:06 PM CDT up reply actions

You could make this argument for any team that wins 97 games, because they’re all going to have an ace that wins 20-some games in his starts.

"The riches of the game are in the thrills, not the money." --Ernie Banks

by dtpollitt on Oct 13, 2011 3:09 PM CDT up reply actions

The Tigers' record in the 161 games Miguel Cabrerra played was 94-67

What do you think it would have been if, say, Carlos Pena had made those 161 starts?

As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.

by santoswoodenlegs on Oct 13, 2011 3:13 PM CDT up reply actions

Also,

you’re comparing only the 38th pitcher in the history of baseball to win the triple crown, with a guy named Rodrigo Lopez.

"The riches of the game are in the thrills, not the money." --Ernie Banks

by dtpollitt on Oct 13, 2011 3:19 PM CDT up reply actions

Right there is more evidence that he should be considered for MVP.

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by Al Yellon on Oct 13, 2011 3:41 PM CDT up reply actions

23 pitchers have won the MVP since the BWAA started voting in 1931.

And from the research I can find, only two won the Triple Crown and the MVP: Hal Newhouse and Lefty Grove.

"The riches of the game are in the thrills, not the money." --Ernie Banks

by dtpollitt on Oct 13, 2011 3:55 PM CDT up reply actions

Rodrigo? Lopez?? MVP???

If the Cubs still have a chance, no matter how small, it’s still Go Cubs, damn the math and pass the KoolAid.

by eths on Oct 13, 2011 4:33 PM CDT up reply actions

Verlander!

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by Al Yellon on Oct 13, 2011 5:01 PM CDT up reply actions

I was teasing...

BTW: This game is fun to watch, and hopefully soon the Cubs will there too.

If the Cubs still have a chance, no matter how small, it’s still Go Cubs, damn the math and pass the KoolAid.

by eths on Oct 13, 2011 5:03 PM CDT up reply actions

Indeed.

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by Al Yellon on Oct 13, 2011 5:06 PM CDT up reply actions

Funny how the news about Theo makes one suddenly silly with optimism...

If the Cubs still have a chance, no matter how small, it’s still Go Cubs, damn the math and pass the KoolAid.

by eths on Oct 13, 2011 5:07 PM CDT up reply actions

Here's the problem with that thinking

Justin Verlander faced 969 batters this season. Jose Bautista (for example) only had 655 plate appearances. If you want to give him credit for his defensive chances, Bautista had 255 outfield chances and Verlander had 50.

So Justin Verlander had 1019 “plays” and Jose Bautista had 910.

Seems ridiculous to ever give the MVP to a position player when you look at it like that. A starter like Verlander actually played more than a position player, as opposed to sitting in the outfield or on the bench picking their noses.

So take that.

by Josh Timmers on Oct 13, 2011 6:34 PM CDT up reply actions

Right. I wasn't arguing for Bautista, I was arguing for Ellsbury, but I get your point.

And Ellsbury was still 2.4 wins above replacement better than Verlander. Bautista, 1.3 WAR higher than Verlander.

If this was an iota of a difference, like a tenth or two-tenths, I can understand this argument. But this isn’t close, it’s not even close.

"The riches of the game are in the thrills, not the money." --Ernie Banks

by dtpollitt on Oct 13, 2011 6:41 PM CDT up reply actions

Sure

I don’t have any problem with people voting for Ellsbury or Bautista or whomever for MVP. I do have a problem with the idea that a pitcher shouldn’t be eligible for the MVP.

by Josh Timmers on Oct 13, 2011 7:15 PM CDT up reply actions

They already have their own award!

"The riches of the game are in the thrills, not the money." --Ernie Banks

by dtpollitt on Oct 13, 2011 7:30 PM CDT up reply actions

Then change the name

to “Most Valuable Position Player.”

by Josh Timmers on Oct 13, 2011 7:57 PM CDT up reply actions

Also,

“So take that” made me laugh.

"The riches of the game are in the thrills, not the money." --Ernie Banks

by dtpollitt on Oct 13, 2011 6:45 PM CDT up reply actions

It was meant as a laugh line

by Josh Timmers on Oct 13, 2011 7:13 PM CDT up reply actions

Gotta admit...

…I never thought of it that way before.

Baseball is pitching, offensive production, baserunning and defense.

by daver on Oct 14, 2011 4:00 PM CDT up reply actions

The Yankees are going to make CJ Wilson a very rich man.

by AzCubfan24 on Oct 13, 2011 3:52 PM CDT reply actions

Let them...he's not going to be a dominate pitcher for very long.

As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.

by santoswoodenlegs on Oct 13, 2011 3:57 PM CDT up reply actions

If I told ANYONE on this site what I was doing at the precise moment

that Miguel Cabrera’s sure double-play ground ball hit off the third base bag for a run scoring double in the Tiger’s 6th inning, you wouldn’t believe me. A Hollywood scriptwriter couldn’t have made it up. And no, it wasn’t anything dirty.

There are 108 beads in a Catholic rosary and there are 108 stitches in a baseball. Who says baseball isn't a religion? (Now #8452 in the Cubs Season Ticket Wait List...)

by Zeke on Oct 13, 2011 5:55 PM CDT reply actions

Well, now you have to tell us.

So spill.

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by Al Yellon on Oct 13, 2011 5:59 PM CDT up reply actions

Honest to God, I was watching game 6 of the NLCS on my iPhone...

and Cabrera had just hit his ground ball to A-Gon in the 8th.

Then in real time, Miggy’s ball hits off the 3rd base bag and the Tigers went ahead.

Kind of chilling actually.

Not sure WHAT to make of it.

There are 108 beads in a Catholic rosary and there are 108 stitches in a baseball. Who says baseball isn't a religion? (Now #8452 in the Cubs Season Ticket Wait List...)

by Zeke on Oct 13, 2011 6:12 PM CDT up reply actions

The 2003 NLCS...

There are 108 beads in a Catholic rosary and there are 108 stitches in a baseball. Who says baseball isn't a religion? (Now #8452 in the Cubs Season Ticket Wait List...)

by Zeke on Oct 13, 2011 6:14 PM CDT up reply actions

OK.

Why would you ever want to watch that game again?

Join us for complete MLB coverage at SB Nation's Baseball Nation

by Al Yellon on Oct 13, 2011 6:15 PM CDT up reply actions

See my FB reply.

There are 108 beads in a Catholic rosary and there are 108 stitches in a baseball. Who says baseball isn't a religion? (Now #8452 in the Cubs Season Ticket Wait List...)

by Zeke on Oct 13, 2011 6:17 PM CDT up reply actions

See my FB reply.

There are 108 beads in a Catholic rosary and there are 108 stitches in a baseball. Who says baseball isn't a religion? (Now #8452 in the Cubs Season Ticket Wait List...)

by Zeke on Oct 13, 2011 6:17 PM CDT up reply actions

Seen.

Still…. I wouldn’t. Just can’t.

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by Al Yellon on Oct 13, 2011 6:17 PM CDT up reply actions

How are you rewatching that game?

MLB’s media usage policy is worse than Amy Winehouse’s drug-free program.

"The riches of the game are in the thrills, not the money." --Ernie Banks

by dtpollitt on Oct 13, 2011 6:28 PM CDT up reply actions

iTunes download.

I paid for it. Twice. Once live and in-person and then again for the download.

There are 108 beads in a Catholic rosary and there are 108 stitches in a baseball. Who says baseball isn't a religion? (Now #8452 in the Cubs Season Ticket Wait List...)

by Zeke on Oct 14, 2011 4:33 AM CDT up reply actions

You PAID to have that game on iTunes?

The only one I’ve paid for is Zambrano’s no-hitter.

Join us for complete MLB coverage at SB Nation's Baseball Nation

by Al Yellon on Oct 14, 2011 7:08 AM CDT up reply actions

I got that one too...

There are 108 beads in a Catholic rosary and there are 108 stitches in a baseball. Who says baseball isn't a religion? (Now #8452 in the Cubs Season Ticket Wait List...)

by Zeke on Oct 14, 2011 11:13 AM CDT up reply actions

"And the Rangers are now one baserunner away from having the tying run up to the plate."

WTF, JOE BUCK.

“And the Chicago Cubs are now only 26 outs away from winning this game.”

"The riches of the game are in the thrills, not the money." --Ernie Banks

by dtpollitt on Oct 13, 2011 6:39 PM CDT reply actions

Oh my God I couldn't understand a word of Cabrera's postgame.

"The riches of the game are in the thrills, not the money." --Ernie Banks

by dtpollitt on Oct 13, 2011 6:46 PM CDT reply actions

When the hell did Ken start wearing bowties? Last year? He still looks like an idiot. It’s baseball, not 60 Minutes.

"The riches of the game are in the thrills, not the money." --Ernie Banks

by dtpollitt on Oct 13, 2011 6:47 PM CDT reply actions

The last thing I fucking want is the Cardinals winning another damn championship.

"The riches of the game are in the thrills, not the money." --Ernie Banks

by dtpollitt on Oct 13, 2011 7:41 PM CDT reply actions

I said it last night, Brewers are done

What a fraud team, all they did was talk all year yet they couldn’t win a big game on the road to save their life. If the Cards win it all Carlos Marmol better get a ring.

by MikeJW on Oct 13, 2011 8:01 PM CDT reply actions

I can't believe Ryan Theriot made that play.

"I'm not much of a chemistry guy, you know. Chemistry to me is a pinch-hit double with the bases loaded"--Jim Frey, Chicago Tribune, 1985.

by zevkalman on Oct 13, 2011 8:42 PM CDT reply actions

And now makes an error that gives up a run.

Thank You Theriot!

by jpeters407 on Oct 13, 2011 9:08 PM CDT up reply actions

Thats the Riot that we all love...

by LT on Oct 13, 2011 9:08 PM CDT reply actions

lolz the riot.

"The riches of the game are in the thrills, not the money." --Ernie Banks

by dtpollitt on Oct 13, 2011 9:18 PM CDT reply actions

cannot.stand.the.thought.of.the.riot.

in.the.WS. cannot.

"So sad, This Cubbie Thing" Courtesy of E-Man, 6/25/2011

by jeffstorm2 on Oct 13, 2011 9:24 PM CDT up reply actions

And...gawd forbid

theriots pre-season, post-trade words prove true!? (“on right side of rivalry”, etc).grumble-grumble…

There are no facts, only interpretations.
Friedrich Nietzsche
Lets Go Theo!!! 10/13/2011

by jeffstorm2 on Oct 13, 2011 9:28 PM CDT reply actions

Can't believe Randy Wolf got it done for Milwaukee

It’s a much different series at 2-2, although I think the pressure’s still on Milwaukee in Game 5. They have Marcum (who has been unbelievably terrible in the postseason) for Game 6 and then have to face Carpenter if there’s a Game 7.

by SouthernCub on Oct 14, 2011 5:52 AM CDT reply actions

Brewers at home in postseason: 4-1
Brewers on road in postseason: 1-3

They’re fortunate they have home field in this series.

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by Al Yellon on Oct 14, 2011 7:10 AM CDT up reply actions

Yes, but the Brewers have not faced Carpenter at home yet

And Carpenter in a Game 7 situation is likely to be very very tough. Ask Philly.

And the other home game they have remaining is going to be started by the one guy with a home loss this postseason (Marcum, who has gotten shelled in both his playoff starts).

The home field will surely help them as it has all year. But those home games are still going to be dicey given the pitching matchups involved.

by SouthernCub on Oct 14, 2011 7:48 AM CDT up reply actions

Carpenter started twice in Miller Park this year.

And got pounded: 8.18 ERA, 1.45 WHIP in 11 innings. He’ll have to be on his best game if it gets to that.

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by Al Yellon on Oct 14, 2011 9:05 AM CDT up reply actions

Regular season is a different animal

Just ask Justin Verlander, right?

Carpenter started Game 5 against Philly in Philly (also a hitters’ park) and pitched an absolute gem.

And at this pace (assuming St Louis closes out Game 5), it may not matter. Marcum will need to avoid pitching like he did in his previous two postseason starts.

by SouthernCub on Oct 14, 2011 9:58 PM CDT up reply actions