UPDATED -- Gammons: Cubs Negotiators? (Crane Kenney?) Don't Know the Players the Red Sox Want
by Alex Sonty on Oct 19, 2011 4:26 PM CDT
Email
PrintI don't really know what to make of this, but Peter Gammons pointed some fingers at the Cubs that really make our Northside baseball club look unprofessional and a bit silly.
He suggested in a WEEI interview that 'baseball people' aren't negotiating the Cubs compensation to the Red Sox to release Theo Epstein from him contract, instead of people with more educated assessments of the Cubs' prospects (h/t: Dan Bernstein):
On lengthy negotiations between Red Sox and Cubs: "This thing with the Cubs, they don’t actually have anyone negotiating that actually has been in development, so they don’t know the players the Red Sox talk about. They have the CEO of business, and the Assistant General Manager who wasn’t actually involved in the farm system. So, it’s been a difficult negotiation. And frankly, I think everyone involved knows the Cubs are a bottom-three farm system. Trey McNutt would be Red Sox prospect 25. For the Cubs to act like they’re giving up the next Billy Williams is kind of absurd. But at the same time, holding that thing up has also hurt the Cubs, because they need Theo there building that organization. There isn’t a lot there. They need him to go out and not only find a manager, but to fill several roles in scouting, development and all the rest. The absurdity has hurt the Cubs, and it’s certainly hurt the Red Sox, because they need to move on and let Ben take over, Ben and Mike Hazen, be running the organization and get the right people in place. …
It’s so silly. … The rebuilding process that Theo is going to undertake in Chicago is far greater than the job that he inherited as the general manager of the Red Sox. Far greater. And it’s going to take a long time. They’re not talking about guys that are franchise pieces. They should get it done from both sides and move on. …
The [Cubs] need to move on, making this a long, long process, the Red Sox hold the cards in this situation, except for the fact that the Red Sox need to move on, too. I actually think it might get done today at some point. I think if they get the thing done, then they can announce it Friday and then it’s all fine. By then, Theo can have things lined up and start talking to people about whether it’s Jed Hoyer or Josh Byrnes he brings in, who he brings into scouting."
That the Cubs have a "bottom-three farm system" and that their best prospect is worse than 24 of the BoSox's is hyperbole. And Gammons is a bit of a homer, but would the Cubs really put only lawyers and bean counters at the table?
EDIT: Chris DeLuca's report tonight makes you wonder if the "CEO of business" about which Gammons speaks is Crane Kenney:
The fact the Epstein deal hasn’t been closed reveals the naivete of the Cubs’ management team, specifically president Crane Kenney. A major-league source said Kenney has bragged since September that he is leading this process, despite claims from Cubs chairman Tom Ricketts that the former Tribune Co. executive wouldn’t be involved.
This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of SB Nation or Al Yellon, managing editor (unless it's a FanPost posted by Al). FanPost opinions are valued expressions of opinion by passionate and knowledgeable baseball fans.
134 comments
|
0 recs |
Do you like this story?
Comments
I think it's a lot of hyperbole
And Gammons’ friends in Boston trying to spin the negotiations in their favor.
Both sides seem to be doing this. But I don’t find Gammons credible in this instance.
by Josh Timmers on Oct 19, 2011 4:32 PM CDT reply actions 5 recs
Agreed.
From what I understand, Tim Wilken, Oneri Fleita and Randy Bush were all involved in putting together a list of prospects they would be willing to deal. If the Red Sox don’t want to deal with that list, that would seem to be their problem, not the Cubs’.
Way too much posturing going on here.
Join us for complete MLB coverage at SB Nation's Baseball Nation
Wow this is like a political spin room.
I wonder if the Commissioner’s office makes a phone call and threatens mediation or binding arbitration if the two sides can’t find a middle ground.
A friend once told me: "I don't buy the idea that a team learns anything from a loss, the only thing they learn is how to lose games."---Knight
No, because the Redsox don't HAVE to give up Epstein.
by Nunyabidness on Oct 19, 2011 6:57 PM CDT up reply actions
You are not going to get anyone to understand that point.
it just makes me weak in the knees the way gomez neither fixed or removed his crooked ass helmet after that puntoslide. -Trooper on Oct 5, 2011
by South Side Expat on Oct 19, 2011 7:48 PM CDT up reply actions
Well, contractually, no. In literally all practical terms, yes they do.
Boston cannot go a full year with a lame duck GM who is stripped of all his powers, just hanging around and talking to the press, while Ben Cherington acts as GM-in-waiting with all the true power, and the Cubs Presidency just sits vacant and Josh Byrnes waits for Theo to get to Chicago. It would be absurd for them, and it would be just a hilariously gigantic distraction.
The Red Sox have just as much pressure here as the Cubs do. It’s silly to say anything different. There’s a reason why employers never keep employees around once they’ve given permission for the employee to seek other opportunities – no matter what the employee’s contractual status. It’s frankly insane to think that you can keep a top manager in place for a full year after he asked to leave, just out of spite.
MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown
by D98 on Oct 19, 2011 8:24 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Absolutely untrue
If a deal with the Cubs doesn’t work out , the Red Sox are merely out his salary. They don’t have to keep him as an active general manager; they can pay him and tell him to stay home. The Red Sox have all the leverage here.
paying someone $7 million to do nothing
is a position of leverage? I’ve heard of the 1%, but even they wouldn’t call that a positive bargaining position. This doesn’t make sense.
by PrincetonCubs on Oct 20, 2011 8:42 AM CDT up reply actions
guess that means the Cubs have all the leverage with regards to Zambrano
I always turn to the sports section first. The sports page records people's accomplishments; the front page has nothing but man's failures.
~Earl Warren
by lookingdeadred on Oct 20, 2011 8:45 AM CDT up reply actions
apparently
people better pony up bigtime if they want his services, because we are in a position of POWER
by PrincetonCubs on Oct 20, 2011 8:50 AM CDT up reply actions
Holy False Analogy
Epstein: Highly respected, highly sought after top-tier talent who the Red Sox can easily replace with their man waiting in the wings
Zambrano: Not at all respected, not at all sought after, makes about 6 times as much as Epstein for a team with a smaller budget, and the Cubs don’t have anyone as good waiting in the wings
by Holtzmaniac on Oct 20, 2011 10:15 AM CDT up reply actions
Clueless
If you followed anything that was going on you would know that the Red Sox are on the hook for 7+million for their lame duck GM and that the Cubs are willing to eat a lot of Zambrano’s contract. Both have 1 year left and their respective contracts.
The Marlins and a few other teams NL teams will be interested in taking a one year flyer on a young, formerly dominant Z.
by Hookers or Cake on Oct 20, 2011 7:27 PM CDT up reply actions
So much hostility, so much confidence
yet so little knowledge
thanks for the chuckle
I always turn to the sports section first. The sports page records people's accomplishments; the front page has nothing but man's failures.
~Earl Warren
by lookingdeadred on Oct 21, 2011 7:49 AM CDT up reply actions
It's all moot now, but yes
The Cubs let the world know Epstein was their man. The Red Sox eating less than $3 million (no idea where you got $7 million from) obviously isn’t great for them, but teams with budgets the size of Boston’s can deal with it.
by Holtzmaniac on Oct 20, 2011 10:17 AM CDT up reply actions
Epstein has a fulfillment bonus of $4m at contract end
$3m salary plus bonus = $7m
by PrincetonCubs on Oct 20, 2011 10:27 AM CDT up reply actions
Didn't realize that but it doesn't really change anything
The Cubs have made it publicly clear that Theo is their guy. They now have to get Theo Epstein as their general manager or suffer yet another significant PR hit. The Red Sox are owned by a billionaire who runs an organization with an established track record of remarkably petty treatment of departing employees.
or "conclusion bonus" in some articles
see here
http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20111011&content_id=25609938&vkey=news_mlb&c_id=mlb
by PrincetonCubs on Oct 20, 2011 10:47 AM CDT up reply actions
Whatever it's called, the Cubs now have to pay it
… presuming the deal does go through.
Join us for complete MLB coverage at SB Nation's Baseball Nation
No way.
I seriously, seriously doubt that the Red Sox’ contract with Theo Epstein has no provisions whatsoever for what Theo’s role with the team will be.
You’re positing that Theo’s deal says something along the lines of “We will pay you $X to do whatever role within the organization we choose for you”.
I am saying that is just incredibly unlikely. Theo’s contract certainly sets forth his job description.
And if he were sent home for a year, or stripped of his power, or assigned to a job that was different than his job description in his contract, that would be a breach of his contract, and he’d be free to leave.
MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown
Also agreed.
I don’t doubt bits of this report are true, but this is all about spin for his beloved Saawwwxxxx.
“Everybody” thinks the Cubs have a bottom 3 farm system? Really? That would seem to be news to most publicly available evaluators.
And a SP who was fairly widely regarded as a top 100 prospect in all of baseball heading into ‘11 wouldn’t crack the top twenty-five in Boston?!?! Please.
"Stuff like this is why they should shut off the internet."
by Orval Overall on Dec 17, 2010 1:19 PM CST
Jim Callis of Baseball America
just tweeted that the Cubs and the Red Sox farm systems are “pretty comparable.”
by Josh Timmers on Oct 19, 2011 4:56 PM CDT up reply actions
So then
who does Callis think is the other team in the bottom three??
smh
"Stuff like this is why they should shut off the internet."
by Orval Overall on Dec 17, 2010 1:19 PM CST
White Sox
Everyone thinks the White Sox have the worst farm system in baseball.
by Josh Timmers on Oct 19, 2011 5:33 PM CDT up reply actions
I'd equate the Red Sox and Cubs as well
Not a lot of nearly major league ready talent to be had. It’s homer-ism if ever I saw it.
he's stopped trying a while ago
I have a lot of respect for his earlier career, but at this point he is the “paycheck player” of analysts…Gammons will gladly repeat what Sox FO people tell him without criticism.
by PrincetonCubs on Oct 19, 2011 5:29 PM CDT up reply actions 5 recs
agreed,
Gammons has changed from that guy I liked to listen to into the guy I change channels so I don’t have to listen to
I'm going to the 2012 Randy Hundley Fantasy Camp!!! Who's with me?
by VegasCubFan on Oct 20, 2011 12:39 AM CDT up reply actions
Gammons was never that guy for me
saved my ears a lot of decibels.
[...]when Giants coach Steve Owen, a certified defensive genius, was asked how he planned to stop Nagurski, he said: "With a shotgun, as he’s leaving the dressing room."
by NobodySpecial on Oct 20, 2011 3:02 AM CDT up reply actions
Gammons appears to be highly respected
by the media but I don’t know why. He is wrong far more often than not. That said, he is indeed a Bosox homer and his spin on things is just that; spin.
And so it goes.
Gammons was part of a revolution in sportswriting
in the 1970s. He was one of the first baseball writers to go after the story in the clubhouse and in the front office. He helped bring investigative journalism into baseball.
But that was a long time ago. Sources that used to give him stories now realize that they can feed him spin.
by Josh Timmers on Oct 19, 2011 4:55 PM CDT up reply actions
Yep.
Sort of like a latter-day Dick Young.
Join us for complete MLB coverage at SB Nation's Baseball Nation
Yes
Except Dick Young was a mouthpiece for ownership. Gammons was one who followed Young with a more even-handed approach.
by Josh Timmers on Oct 19, 2011 5:39 PM CDT up reply actions
Gammons also isn't
as vile a person as Young was.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Oct 19, 2011 11:16 PM CDT up reply actions
No, but...
…. the analogy is still apt; someone who changed the business when younger, but who turned into a crotchety old man with an agenda.
Join us for complete MLB coverage at SB Nation's Baseball Nation
Agreed
It must be difficult to avoid falling into that trap.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Oct 20, 2011 10:09 AM CDT up reply actions
He should stick to writing.
There are dangers to calling up sports radio shows and speaking extemporaneously, one of which is sounding ridiculous and uninformed.
Baseball is pitching, offensive production, baserunning and defense.
Further
I have read other things that say that McNutt would instantly be in the Red Sox top 10 prospects.
Join us for complete MLB coverage at SB Nation's Baseball Nation
There's no doubt about that one.
I’d say he’d settle in around 7 or 8 right now.
Oh, how can you know that?
When I post an opinion you don’t like (like mine regarding the relative worth of Epstein and McNutt) and you get all mentally irregular claiming I could not possibly know that. Well, how do you KNOW that McNutt would be a top 7 or 8 prospect for the BoSox? You can’t possibly KNOW that, but apparently when you speculate it’s okay, when others do it, you get indignant.
Too funny.
I always turn to the sports section first. The sports page records people's accomplishments; the front page has nothing but man's failures.
~Earl Warren
by lookingdeadred on Oct 21, 2011 7:54 AM CDT up reply actions
It really is not that speculative
There is plenty of information out there ranking various teams prospects both in relation to the team and to the entire minor league system. Personally I have not done any research, but it is not particularly speculative if one did. The Red Sox minor league system is ranked in the same realm as the Cubs and McNutt is a top 5 for the Cubs, it would be highly unlikely he would be a lot further down with the Red Sox.
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either
by Doggie Stalker on Oct 21, 2011 11:10 AM CDT up reply actions
I'm glad to see you were actually able to drop it.
You’ve still managed to miss the entire point – I’ll try this one last time:
My argument is that no one can possibly judge the value of a GM vs the value of a player, because you’re comparing two completely different things. That’s all, I’m not trying to be rude, but you’re getting extremely bent out of shape apparently.
As far as comparing a minor league player against a variety of other minor league players, it is entirely possible and people make lists of them yearly. There are reasons you don’t see stats like WAR for GMs, it simply doesn’t work/make sense.
by bdlugz on Oct 23, 2011 10:21 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
thanks for the chuckle
I always turn to the sports section first. The sports page records people's accomplishments; the front page has nothing but man's failures.
~Earl Warren
by lookingdeadred on Oct 25, 2011 7:41 AM CDT up reply actions
wow.
So Pete, if the Cubs farm system is sooooooo bad, why don’t your Red Sox just take a bag o’ cash, smart guy?
What a tool. On one hand he’s acting like there’s nothing of value for the Red Sox to be interested in, and in the same breath he’s putting the onus on the Cubs for holding things up? And we’re to assume Randy Bush doesn’t know ENOUGH about his players that he isn’t able to negotiate in this instance? What a complete load of crap. Not that I ever liked Gammons before.
Man, he’s smoking some bomb azz shyte.
My guess is it’s a weak transparent attempt to give the Red Sox leverage. Last time I checked, the Cubs can wait for a year, give you nothing and tell you to have a nice day. I mean if we’re soooooooooooooooooo terrible and it’s this huuuge undertaking what’s another 12 months? Right, brainiac?
MAKE THE ADJUSTMENT ALREADY. THIS GAME IS ABOUT ADJUSTMENTS.
Gammons is worse than ever
He should retire in my opinion if this is what he is going to spew.
by LT on Oct 19, 2011 5:25 PM CDT via mobile reply actions
Oh come on
Gammons has been in the tank for the Red Sox organization for years. This is propoganda, plain and simple.
Because he's getting old?
He’s in his mid-60s, has recovered from an aneurism, and has been doing this for a long long time. I’m guessing he got tired of the grind of doing that job full-time.
"recovered"
Am I the only one flagging this guy?
Seriously, do we have to wait for the money shot or a "F*** THE SOXXXXXX!" before we ban him? Doubleteapot… BAN HIM!!
by AlohaSox on Sep 28, 2011 10:20 PM CDT
by SandalsNoPants on Oct 19, 2011 5:46 PM CDT up reply actions
Plus he's on the $20 bill. He doesn't need the money.
MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown
by D98 on Oct 19, 2011 8:25 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Because MLB Network
made him a better offer.
by Josh Timmers on Oct 19, 2011 5:40 PM CDT up reply actions
MONEY
Am I the only one flagging this guy?
Seriously, do we have to wait for the money shot or a "F*** THE SOXXXXXX!" before we ban him? Doubleteapot… BAN HIM!!
by AlohaSox on Sep 28, 2011 10:20 PM CDT
by SandalsNoPants on Oct 19, 2011 5:46 PM CDT up reply actions
absolute BIAS
What I also think is rather funny is that from all reports this month, the Boston Red Sox organization might be the most dysfunctional team in MLB. They are trying to spin the Cubs as being the team that is disorganized and aloof all the while they are trying to save face from the worst media barrage in the past 20 days.
Is it any wonder why Theo wants out?
by thisisitflyfishing on Oct 19, 2011 5:57 PM CDT reply actions 7 recs
curious
Al, I am an infrequent blogger so excuse my ignorance but i have noticed you respond with “This” before…can you explain what that means for me?
by thisisitflyfishing on Oct 19, 2011 6:07 PM CDT reply actions
Does
he mean bottom third? Because that I could understand, but bottom 3 seems a little silly since we have a top 50 prospect.
I do think our system is below average, and I don’t think it’s all because of the Garza trade. I wouldn’t shed a tear if Wilken was let go or if Fleita was taken out of the player development side and strictly focused on the Dominican project. I have yet to find some way eiher of them have improved our minor league system.
No Cubbiegoon, I am Deep Goat
Well, there are 30 teams...
Every team should have a top-50 prospect. Having a top-50 prospect shouldn’t preclude you from being in the bottom 3.
That said, I agree that we shouldn’t be considered bottom 3. Probably in the high-teens/low 20s.
Wilken can only draft with the $ given to him.
He can’t make miracles work with a bottom 5 draft budget. This year things changed dramatically, and I think we’ll start to see a big change in the minors in the next 2-3 years.
Also, Fleita has done a lot, but he is simply too spread out. He is expected to do more than is humanly possible, and his job needs to be condensed. and refocused.
Don't blink, Ricketts. Tell them that we've waited 100+ years, what's another season and we are not giving up our top prospects.
We can hire another GM, the Red Sox would then have to re-assign Theo until another team comes calling.
have not heard/seen the Angels interested in Theo either
they must assume this is a done deal and there is no chance it does not happen.
by cozmotaylor123 on Oct 19, 2011 6:50 PM CDT up reply actions
I don't think the Angels were ever interested in Theo
Just as Tom Ricketts has made no secret of his admiration for the Red Sox organization, Arte Moreno has made no secret about the way he admires the Yankees do things (except for the Boss’ rants when he was still alive.) If Brian Cashman were interested, I have no doubt he’d be all over him. But as it is, he’s been looking at a few of Cashman’s assistants. Also Thad Levine from the Rangers, Jerry DiPoto of the Diamondbacks and Kim Ng.
The Angels job is less desirable for a guy like Epstein anyway because of all the power Mike Scioscia has in that organization.
by Josh Timmers on Oct 19, 2011 6:56 PM CDT up reply actions
The entire lure of the Cubs job for Theo is the prospect of baseball immortality.
If he wins a Series somewhere else, his legacy is “great GM”. If he wins a Series with the Cubs, his legacy is “one of the 2-3 most famous baseball executives in history.”
MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown
by D98 on Oct 19, 2011 8:27 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
I think this is a bunch of crap for the most part.....But I do not want Kenney involved in anything baseball related.
If he is Ricketts should stop this…He said he would not be involved
Agree wholeheartedly
with you………in fact I’d wish they’d ship Kenney to parts unknown or else he’d just resign.
Wishful thinking on my part I know but I can dream!
Agreed, but I think this is all just a load of crap regarding the negotiations.
I’d take it all, including who is participating in them, with a grain of salt.
only if they were good strides.
I'm a Cubs fan. The Jaded Bitterness comes as a Standard Feature.
they were great
better than good?
Am I the only one flagging this guy?
Seriously, do we have to wait for the money shot or a "F*** THE SOXXXXXX!" before we ban him? Doubleteapot… BAN HIM!!
by AlohaSox on Sep 28, 2011 10:20 PM CDT
by SandalsNoPants on Oct 19, 2011 7:24 PM CDT up reply actions
Great strides toward a bad trade suck.
Just like getting a hot tip on a bad stock can be dangerous.
I'm a Cubs fan. The Jaded Bitterness comes as a Standard Feature.
I agree.
I was making a joke.
Am I the only one flagging this guy?
Seriously, do we have to wait for the money shot or a "F*** THE SOXXXXXX!" before we ban him? Doubleteapot… BAN HIM!!
by AlohaSox on Sep 28, 2011 10:20 PM CDT
by SandalsNoPants on Oct 19, 2011 7:38 PM CDT up reply actions
He was ranked 48th best prospect in baseball
There is no way 24 players from the red sox are in the top 50. Of course it’s ridiculous.
Agreed
Just silly, uninformed, slanted discussion by Gammons.
to gammons a quad AAAA red sox player is a top 50 prospect
THEOOOOOOOOO
by jesus christos on Oct 19, 2011 7:52 PM CDT up reply actions
holy redundancy, batman!
THEOOOOOOOOO
by jesus christos on Oct 19, 2011 7:53 PM CDT up reply actions
Not redundant..
Someday there may be some AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA players in the top 50.
I bet they got the AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA manager by calling an auto repair shop.
Charlie Donovan: How would you like to manage our AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA club this year?
Lou Brown: Gee, I don’t know…
Charlie Donovan: What do you mean, you don’t know? This is your chance to get back into baseball!
Lou Brown: Let me get back to you, will ya, Charlie? I got a guy on the other line asking about some white walls.
by The Deputy Mayor of Rush Street on Oct 20, 2011 11:30 AM CDT up reply actions
top 3-5
Am I the only one flagging this guy?
Seriously, do we have to wait for the money shot or a "F*** THE SOXXXXXX!" before we ban him? Doubleteapot… BAN HIM!!
by AlohaSox on Sep 28, 2011 10:20 PM CDT
by SandalsNoPants on Oct 19, 2011 7:37 PM CDT up reply actions
not necessarily.
“All we had to do was add Watkins to Szczur, JJax, and Flaherty. Add McNutt and it’s done. Great strides.”
I'm a Cubs fan. The Jaded Bitterness comes as a Standard Feature.
I don't know what he means by great strides.
I don’t want to empty the farm for a top GM.
I'm a Cubs fan. The Jaded Bitterness comes as a Standard Feature.
Who said they would?
I trust Tom to not do that. I think that he’s held out this long is in our favor.
"the Red Sox hold the cards in this situation"
That sounds like the total opposite of what I would think.
"The riches of the game are in the thrills, not the money." --Ernie Banks
Yes, what is the Red Sox endgame here?
Can they credibly claim that they’re going to keep Epstein in charge as GM for 2012 at this point?
And (this just occurred to me) if they somehow were to keep paying him, but strip him of his GM powers, would that not be a rather obvious breach of contract by Boston, allowing Theo to walk?
MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown
I think their endgame is
Let’s get something in return for gutting our front office so the fans don’t murder us and bury us under a bar a la Whitey Bulger
Quite possibly, yes.
This would be a matter of contract, so you can’t really say without seeing the actual agreement. But in a lot of executive employment contracts, there are provisions that allow for a “justified termination” by the executive if his/her authority is removed so that it’s no longer the same job. Often in those cases, the executive could terminate the deal and still get paid, essentially saying that by removing the responsibilities you’ve already fired me.
But again I have no idea whether Theo’s existing contract is written that way, so this is more about the theoretical possibility of what you were asking.
by Orval Overall on Oct 21, 2011 9:24 AM CDT up reply actions
I do a bit of employment law on occasion
So I agree, we’d have to see the deal. But I find it hard to believe that Theo’s agent would have agreed to an employment contract that set forth Theo’s compensation, but didn’t set forth Theo’s job description, rights and responsibilities.
MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown
I think
both sides are completely dependent on the other. Both sides absolutely have to get this done. If the Red Sox don’t, they have to pay a GM 7 million dollars to have no role in their front office, and they further destroy their reputation in the league.
If the Cubs don’t get it done, Ricketts looks like he’s still in over his head, and still listening to the wrong people (ie Crane, Fleita, etc).
This will get done. Both sides have too much to lose.
No Cubbiegoon, I am Deep Goat
by tomas21 on Oct 19, 2011 8:42 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Red Sox fans said a lot of the same things about the Kaplan article...
I think Gammons is a cool guy, but I think this article is a little silly
I'm Deep Goat
Just think
after all this is settled with Boston, we get to go through this all again with San Diego and Jed Hoyer!
i read that the padres won't hold up a hoyer to chicago deal if it meant byrnes becomes GM
of course, the red sox said the same thing about theo
THEOOOOOOOOO
by jesus christos on Oct 19, 2011 8:54 PM CDT up reply actions
Kaplan...
thekapman David Kaplan
It appears that Cubs and Red Sox are close to finalizing deal that will allow Theo Epstein to head to the Cubs. Could be finalized tomorrow.
THEO!
by wrigleyrocker12 on Oct 19, 2011 9:01 PM CDT reply actions
Dave Kaplan
is now reporting the deal will be announced tomorrow.
I just spoke with two excellent sources on Epstein negotiations and it appears deal is basically done with announcement of agreement tmrw.
I sure hope this turns out to be true.
Join us for complete MLB coverage at SB Nation's Baseball Nation
How could they announce it today with the WS on?
It would need to be tomorrow at the earliest, correct?
Gammons use to be gospel.
It was a treat to read the Boston Globe on Sundays in the mid 80’s and get a good insight of baseball.
His health scare and his even more close ties to the Sox have lessen his credibility. Still like the guy, but he is off on this one.
Another Boston Writer spins Cubs system
@nickcafardo
Nick Cafardo
Completely agree with @pgammo that cubs have bottom three farm systm regardless of where milb pubs rank them. Cubs have very little.
In other words, I don’t care what people who actually rate teams minor leagues think, we have to spin the Cubs system to be so bad that they have to give us what we want because they don’t have anything else.
See the Cubs 2012 schedule at http://cubsbythenumbers.com/sched2012.html
Also see what old Cubs Scorecards looked like at http://cubsbythenumbers.com/scorecards.html
I hope Theo
is keeping some bulletin board material.
I'm a Cubs fan. The Jaded Bitterness comes as a Standard Feature.
A lot of this could have been avoided if the Cubs had worked out compensation prior to
closing their deal with Epstein. The Marlins did just that with the White Sox. Now, the Red Sox may have still acted like complete dirt bags, but having not already signed Theo, the Cubs might have at least had a little more leverage in threatening to walk away from the whole deal.
I think that has fed into some of “the Cubs don’t know what they’re doing” talk.
that is not how I recall the Guillen deal going down
I remember it as Ozzie and FL working something out and Ozzie (no surprise) tweeting it), and then CWS accusing them of tampering, and then FL having to negotiate at bit of a disadvantage. see e.g.
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2011/baseball/mlb/09/27/guillen.marlins.ap/index.html
I think the “Cubs don’t know what they’re doing” talk is purely an attempt to capture the narrative by Boston through their media contacts.
by PrincetonCubs on Oct 20, 2011 8:48 AM CDT up reply actions
I think the "Cubs don’t know what they’re doing" talk is purely an attempt to capture the narrative by Boston through their media contacts.
This.
Join us for complete MLB coverage at SB Nation's Baseball Nation
This boston is dumb for not taking cash.
They could have used that cash to go over slot in the next draft and get a player that is way better than any in our “bottom 3” farm system.
"All I want is food and creative love" - Rusted Root
by TheRiot Police on Oct 20, 2011 8:49 AM CDT up reply actions
Doh..
This = then
"All I want is food and creative love" - Rusted Root
by TheRiot Police on Oct 20, 2011 8:49 AM CDT up reply actions
I really think Gammons hates the Cubs.
Didn’t he call Wrigley a dump earlier this year?
by shadyglennbeckert on Oct 20, 2011 9:00 AM CDT reply actions
Comments For This Post Are Closed
Secondary Sidebar
User Tools
Related FanPosts on Bleed Cubbie Blue
Related FanShots on Bleed Cubbie Blue
FanPosts
Community blog posts and discussion.
Recommended FanPosts
Recent FanPosts
FanShots
Quick hits of video, photos, quotes, chats, links and lists that you find around the web.
Recommended FanShots
Recent FanShots
Cubs By The Numbers
Cubs By The Numbers is a history of the ballclub by uniform number, but the biographies help trace the history of our beloved team in a new way. For everyone who's a Cubs fan, anyone who ever wore the uniform is like family. Cubs By The Numbers reintroduces readers to some of their long-lost ancestors, even ones they think they already know.
Click here to order your copy, available now!
Recent Stories in Chicago Cubs Game Threads
Recent Stories in Ticket Exchanges
Baseball Nation Recent Stories
In Association With
Big League Stew - MLB - Yahoo! Sports
- Eric Hosmer redefines the Baltimore chop with infield double (Video)
- College player makes impossible over the fence catch to save tournament game (Video)
- Security!: Camden Yards guard collides with Royals’ Mike Moustakas
- The Juice: Nelson Cruz matches career high eight RBIs, Pujols stays hot in Seattle
- Benches clear at Fenway as Red Sox-Rays rivalry heats up
