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Cubs Set To Hire Theo Epstein And Jed Hoyer

Theo Epstein, general manager of the Boston Red Sox, answers questions during a press conference at Fenway Park in Boston, Massachusetts. (Photo by Elsa/Getty Images)

ESPNChicago.com is reporting this morning that Theo Epstein will be officially hired Thursday as President of Baseball Operations and that San Diego Padres GM Jed Hoyer will also be joining the Cubs as general manager.

How those two will divide up decision-making would, of course, be up to them, but that would give the Cubs a 1-2 tandem that once worked together in Boston.

A news conference is expected to be held tomorrow. Regarding compensation, David Kaplan tweets:

Compensation will not include ML talent but will include value but not Brett Jackson. If it's Trey McNutt, oh well. Price of doing biz!
Oct 20 via TweetDeckFavoriteRetweetReply

I'd rather not give up McNutt, either, but, as Kaplan says... so be it, if it's true. I will update this post with more information as it becomes available.

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Comments

Display:

Good.

I don’t want to lose McNutt, but Josh said he’s at best a No. 2 starter, more likely a No. 3-4.

I’m fine giving up the next Kevin Tapani/Steve Trachsel for Epstein.

Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.

by elgato on Oct 20, 2011 9:33 AM CDT reply actions  

You keep referencing Tapani/Trachsel

but McNutt’s stuff is nothing like those guys. He may only be expected to be a #3/4 starter, but it’s more in the Cashner/early-Garza style of #3/4 than the Tapani/Trachsel style.

In other words, Tapani/Trachsel had “stuff” limitations that prevented them from being more than #3/4 type starters. It’s not an issue of “stuff” with McNutt.

by SouthernCub on Oct 20, 2011 9:42 AM CDT up reply actions  

What does the 'stuff' point really prove?

Josh seemed to indicate that McNutt wouldn’t have more success in the majors than a No. 2 starter, and that he more likely would be a No. 3-4. Who cares how he does it?

Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.

by elgato on Oct 20, 2011 9:47 AM CDT up reply actions  

The stuff point involves ceiling

Guys like Tapani/Trachsel were never going to be elite because they just didn’t have the stuff to do it.

The expectation is that McNutt won’t be more than a #3/4. But that’s because the expectation for almost any AA pitcher is that he won’t be more than a #3/4.

It ultimately may not be a huge difference, but it’s a distinguishable difference.

by SouthernCub on Oct 20, 2011 9:49 AM CDT up reply actions  

A 3/4 starter is the expectation of almost any AA pitcher?

I’ve NEVER heard that before. And if you’re referring to the pitcher’s early status with a team, wouldn’t he break in as a No. 5.

Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.

by elgato on Oct 20, 2011 9:53 AM CDT up reply actions  

The top-end for "expectation"

sorry – bad wording for what I meant.

What I was trying to say is that it’s generally unreasonable to set the expectation any higher than #3/4 when the pitcher is still a AA pitcher (unless that guy is one of those “can’t miss” guys.

by SouthernCub on Oct 20, 2011 9:55 AM CDT up reply actions  

Sounds like it doesn't matter anyway.

I’ll end with this: The Cubs need somebody to completely change the course of the franchise — so we don’t have Trey McNutt and a lot of nothing in the system.

I honestly think Theo is more valuable than one starting pitcher in West Tenn who’s had one good minor league season and who might not turn into anything.

Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.

by elgato on Oct 20, 2011 10:00 AM CDT up reply actions  

Me, too.

Obviously, keeping our top pitching prospect is preferable.

Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.

by elgato on Oct 20, 2011 10:07 AM CDT up reply actions  

Agreed

We are paying Theo less than we paid/are paying Zambrano and I’d like to think Theo will deliver 100x more value than we got from Z during his contract.

by BeltwayCubsFan on Oct 20, 2011 4:11 PM CDT up reply actions  

Just so he limits the soap opear drama under

the 100X point.

I'm a Cubs fan. The Jaded Bitterness comes as a Standard Feature.

by timh815 on Oct 20, 2011 4:22 PM CDT up reply actions  

A Number 2 starter

is someone like Matt Garza. There aren’t 25 #1 starters in all of the majors. Most teams don’t have one.

As SouthernCub said, McNutt could end up being as good as Matt Garza if things work out. Steve Trachsel and Kevin Tapani would never be a #2 starter because they never had the stuff.

by Josh Timmers on Oct 20, 2011 9:53 AM CDT up reply actions  

Seems moot, at this point.

I guess I was overvaluing Kevin Tapani. Still, I wouldn’t have been upset about losing a guy who (by your own words, Josh) was most likely a No. 3-4 and who could have also flopped (because any prospect can flop).

Not when the return is Theo Epstein.

Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.

by elgato on Oct 20, 2011 9:57 AM CDT up reply actions  

I'm back and forth on McNutt

I don’t think he’s by any measure a sure thing: he could end up flaming out with his blisters and what have you. In that case, he’s expendable.

On the other hand, he’s the only guy we have in the minors who is likely to be able to step into a starting role next season. A lack of majors ready pitching really bit us in the ass last season.

I guess I’m saying that if we still had Chris Archer, I’d be much more willing to give up Trey McNutt.

by Josh Timmers on Oct 20, 2011 10:00 AM CDT up reply actions  

You know the system better than I do.

Is there anybody in the lower minors who, by 2013-14, could replace McNutt in the system hierarchy?

I’m not saying McNutt has no value. But will one starting pitcher make that big a difference next year — while the team is rebuilding and before the Zambrano and Dempster contracts expire?

Or, rather, will one starting pitcher in that situation make as much difference as Theo Epstein?

Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.

by elgato on Oct 20, 2011 10:04 AM CDT up reply actions  

McNutt is by far the best pitching prospect in the system

there are a few interesting names that could develop into back-of-the-rotation types by 2013 or 2014 (Rhee, Whitenack, Struck, etc). But they aren’t expected to be as good as McNutt at this point.

Thankfully, it sounds like we won’t have to make that tradeoff.

by SouthernCub on Oct 20, 2011 10:08 AM CDT up reply actions  

Still ...

the state of the organization calls for a new top guy more so than somebody who’s ceiling is a No. 2 starter, IMO.

That said, good for the Cubs if we keep McNutt.

Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.

by elgato on Oct 20, 2011 10:10 AM CDT up reply actions  

You've made your opinion on this repeatedly clear

it’s not getting anywhere to say it again.

I was merely correcting your analogy to Tapani/Trachsel, which was inappropriate.

I’m not interested in changing your opinion of whether it would be worth it to trade McNutt for Epstein (especially now that it seems moot anyway). I just wanted to correct that one side point.

by SouthernCub on Oct 20, 2011 10:14 AM CDT up reply actions  

OK.

Easy. I wasn’t trying to piss you off.

Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.

by elgato on Oct 20, 2011 10:25 AM CDT up reply actions  

I wasn't/amn't pissed off

My bad if that sounded harsher than I meant it.

I was just saying you’ve said this same statement a bunch of times in this thread and others.

Didn’t mean it to sound as combative as it apparently sounded.

by SouthernCub on Oct 20, 2011 10:30 AM CDT up reply actions  

The Cubs will have a pretty high #1 pick in 2012

Getting a top-tier college pitcher could set up a guy with late 2103-2014 potential.

by ClarkFan on Oct 20, 2011 1:17 PM CDT up reply actions  

Oh sure

There’s Ben Wells, Yao-Lin Wang, Robert Whitenack if he comes back from TJ surgery. Even Hayden Simpson if he bounces back.

But none of those guys are sure things.

by Josh Timmers on Oct 20, 2011 10:13 AM CDT up reply actions  

I'd be pretty surprised if Simpson is ready by 2014

maybe September 2014? It’s just so had to say based on this lost season. But it seems like he’d have to go through a lot of levels very quickly to be in MLB by 2014.

by SouthernCub on Oct 20, 2011 10:16 AM CDT up reply actions  

So would I

I’m just saying it’s possible.

by Josh Timmers on Oct 20, 2011 10:19 AM CDT up reply actions  

Dillon Maples?

I seem to recall people being pretty thrilled the Cubs signed him, isn’t he considered to have the potential to be a top tier pitching prospect, as well?

by cmhosin on Oct 20, 2011 11:15 AM CDT up reply actions  

He is

but I doubt he’s ready by 2014. Raw HS pitcher.

by Josh Timmers on Oct 20, 2011 11:16 AM CDT up reply actions  

According to the EDPN article referenced above it's NOT

top prospects Brett Jackson, Trey McNutt and Matt Szczur.

Dear Great Pumpkin, I am looking forward to your arrival on Halloween Night. I hope you will bring me lots of presents.

by katie casey on Oct 20, 2011 9:47 AM CDT up reply actions  

And that's awesome.

I was responding to Kap’s tweet.

Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.

by elgato on Oct 20, 2011 9:47 AM CDT up reply actions  

Also, the ESPN story has been updated.

Originally, it didn’t mention those three guys.

Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.

by elgato on Oct 20, 2011 9:50 AM CDT up reply actions  

Yikes-ESPN not EDPN

Dear Great Pumpkin, I am looking forward to your arrival on Halloween Night. I hope you will bring me lots of presents.

by katie casey on Oct 20, 2011 9:50 AM CDT up reply actions  

Erectile Dysfunction Programming Network

Not sure I need to see Cialis commercials 24 hours a day!

Get 'em on, Get 'em over, Get 'em in!

by DKT on Oct 20, 2011 10:11 AM CDT up reply actions  

We pretty much do already, don't we?

Join us for complete MLB coverage at SB Nation's Baseball Nation

by Al Yellon on Oct 20, 2011 10:28 AM CDT up reply actions   2 recs

Haha!

I feel old just watching a baseball game, and becoming aware of my demographic.

"Wait, are you saying I'm a sunshine-pumping, koolaid-drinking, Soriano-loving, rainbow-rising, unicorn-riding, double-clutching, Sweet Lou-backing, Hendry-supporting, hey hey whaddya saying, Cubs are going all the waying, glass is overflowing, Rothschild is all-knowing, Cubs fan? - ballhawk

by vonde6 on Oct 20, 2011 12:54 PM CDT up reply actions  

I like bath tubs

"Just shut up and play" - Matt Garza

by RiskyBusiness on Oct 20, 2011 10:57 AM CDT up reply actions  

Why when I try to recommend is making flags?

Is it mocking me for giving a plus to something as silly as how I also ponder the bath tub thing?

by Madison Cub Fan on Oct 20, 2011 11:31 AM CDT up reply actions  

Reload your page

your rec will show up then.

[...]when Giants coach Steve Owen, a certified defensive genius, was asked how he planned to stop Nagurski, he said: "With a shotgun, as he’s leaving the dressing room."

by NobodySpecial on Oct 20, 2011 11:40 AM CDT up reply actions  

Wait for the pill to kick in??

I hope the water doesn’t get cold.

"Just shut up and play" - Matt Garza

by RiskyBusiness on Oct 20, 2011 12:55 PM CDT up reply actions  

Now that you mention it...

…there is a certain logic there.

Baseball is pitching, offensive production, baserunning and defense.

by daver on Oct 20, 2011 2:01 PM CDT up reply actions  

I'd rather take a shower.

I can’t stand bathing.

Dear Great Pumpkin, I am looking forward to your arrival on Halloween Night. I hope you will bring me lots of presents.

by katie casey on Oct 20, 2011 2:39 PM CDT up reply actions  

Did you get the joke?

Dear Great Pumpkin, I am looking forward to your arrival on Halloween Night. I hope you will bring me lots of presents.

by katie casey on Oct 20, 2011 4:13 PM CDT up reply actions  

Was it gol... Oh, never mind...

If the Cubs still have a chance, no matter how small, it’s still Go Cubs, damn the math and pass the KoolAid.

by eths on Oct 20, 2011 4:16 PM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

NO

Dear Great Pumpkin, I am looking forward to your arrival on Halloween Night. I hope you will bring me lots of presents.

by katie casey on Oct 20, 2011 4:17 PM CDT up reply actions  

Yep.

Baseball is pitching, offensive production, baserunning and defense.

by daver on Oct 20, 2011 2:38 PM CDT up reply actions  

perhaps with the help of Cialis

you can reach over to the other bathtub????

follow me on twitter for fantasy sports analysis @http://twitter.com/DrewDinkmeyer or get the full analysis at www.fantistics.com

by DartmouthCubsFan on Oct 21, 2011 9:44 AM CDT up reply actions  

I wonder what it is that is given up to SD.

I suspect they’d be happy with just cash, but you never know.

by ubercubsfan on Oct 20, 2011 9:34 AM CDT reply actions  

Zambrano?

;)

Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.

by elgato on Oct 20, 2011 9:35 AM CDT up reply actions  

No thanks, Lackey is still owed $$$$$ in 2013 and 2014

At least Z’s contract is gone soon. Even if Lackey’s 2011 was an outlier, he has been declining for several years, so any rebound is likely to be pretty muted.

by ClarkFan on Oct 20, 2011 1:21 PM CDT up reply actions  

No compensation to SD

at least according to the ESPN article.

I will be interested to see what the actual compensation to Boston will wind up being.

It’s interesting, considering that Epstein is getting a promotion out of it and considering that Hoyer wouldn’t be getting a promotion and reportedly SD is not getting compensation.

by SouthernCub on Oct 20, 2011 9:52 AM CDT up reply actions  

yeah, for all intents and purposes

hoyer is getting a Demotion.

So i you can give you can take it.

by epsilon on Oct 20, 2011 9:54 AM CDT up reply actions  

Epstein probably talked Hoyer into doing it.

“Putting the band back together” and all that.

Join us for complete MLB coverage at SB Nation's Baseball Nation

by Al Yellon on Oct 20, 2011 9:55 AM CDT up reply actions  

Challenge Accepted

As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.

by santoswoodenlegs on Oct 20, 2011 10:49 AM CDT up reply actions  

Theo: It's been 103 years in Chicago...

…we got a Prez who’s an ass, half a decent infield, it’s dark… and we’re wearing sunglasses.

Jed: Hit it

by JCD on Oct 20, 2011 12:16 PM CDT up reply actions  

"We're on a mission for Tom."

Baseball is pitching, offensive production, baserunning and defense.

by daver on Oct 20, 2011 12:48 PM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

You are a god among men

Mr SWL.

"Keep pushin' til' it's understood. And these badlands start treating us good."

by AussieCub on Oct 20, 2011 8:17 PM CDT up reply actions  

twss

"Hey.....Cubs win!!!" ---Harry
"Cubs win....what a lucky break!!" ---Harry

by Hammer on Oct 20, 2011 8:51 PM CDT up reply actions  

Orange whip? Orange whip? Orange whip?

Three orange whips.

Baseball is pitching, offensive production, baserunning and defense.

by daver on Oct 20, 2011 12:40 PM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

I want four grilled bisons and a beer

You want bison wings or bison dogs?

I want four grilled bisons and a beer.

And some dry stale popcorn please.

Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."

by ballhawk on Oct 20, 2011 1:16 PM CDT up reply actions  

Jake! Elwood!

Sh*t, it’s the Blues Brothers!

Baseball is pitching, offensive production, baserunning and defense.

by daver on Oct 20, 2011 1:23 PM CDT up reply actions  

Perhaps he'll get better pay

It’s a demotion in the sense that he’ll likely have less say in final decisions than he had in San Diego. But he’ll likely get paid more, have a better opportunity to win a championship, and will get to work with Epstein again.

by SouthernCub on Oct 20, 2011 9:58 AM CDT up reply actions  

San Diego

Perhaps spending a year or two in SD, realizing that their resources are, at best, limited, is all he needed to jump at the opportunity. In Chicago, he won’t only get to draft and develop young talent, he’ll get to keep it.

by dmlichte on Oct 20, 2011 10:10 AM CDT up reply actions  

there's got to be a substantial raise involved

or else he and Epstein must be really good buddies. or they really want the Cubs to win the WS.

by PrincetonCubs on Oct 20, 2011 10:56 AM CDT up reply actions  

Hoyer/Byrnes

Byrnes is a favorite of Padres owner Jeff Moorad, who hired Byrnes to be GM in Arizona when Moorad was president there. Perhaps Moorad would rather keep Byrnes.

by dmlichte on Oct 20, 2011 10:08 AM CDT up reply actions  

Please let this be true - leaving work soon and going on a binge... ;-)

Losing McNutt would be a pity, but probably worth it.

If the Cubs still have a chance, no matter how small, it’s still Go Cubs, damn the math and pass the KoolAid.

by eths on Oct 20, 2011 9:37 AM CDT reply actions  

The more the merrier

I hope Epstein can bring as many guys as he wants to. Let’s get this team on the right track ASAP.

"It's a funny old world. Man's lucky if he gets out of it alive." W.C. Fields

by KedzieKid on Oct 20, 2011 9:38 AM CDT reply actions  

My guess...

…give it about 3-4 days.

"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel

by MPH73 on Oct 20, 2011 9:44 AM CDT up reply actions  

I predict...

…the Cubs will be announcing a new manager within the next 2 weeks.

"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel

by MPH73 on Oct 20, 2011 10:07 AM CDT up reply actions  

I agree.

Join us for complete MLB coverage at SB Nation's Baseball Nation

by Al Yellon on Oct 20, 2011 10:08 AM CDT up reply actions  

I also predict...

…his initials will be; RS

I believe Epstein is a believer that a unexperienced manager is not going to kill you, because of the thorough analysis he believes in doing in putting his roster together and as long as that manager has fundemental qualities, which I believe Sandburg does.

It is going to be an interesting offseason!!

"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel

by MPH73 on Oct 20, 2011 12:33 PM CDT up reply actions  

Rick Sutcliffe?

I thought he didn’t wanna manage? Nah…he’ll stay doing color work.

R.I.P. Dan Wheldon 1978-2011

by Easy Ed on Oct 20, 2011 1:52 PM CDT up reply actions  

Rick Santorum

He’s the right man for the job. Just google it.

by Josh Timmers on Oct 20, 2011 2:23 PM CDT up reply actions  

Nice!

Good to keep the comments frothy. :)

"It's cold in April and nobody likes hard stuff in April. You go right after them and get in on their hands and get them unexpected, and it's a lot of fun." -- Matt Garza, 3/2011

by CaughtInTheVines on Oct 20, 2011 2:41 PM CDT up reply actions   2 recs

That comment was the foam that topped the...

nevermind.

"We push bunt, we squeeze bunt, we hit and run, we steal home!" - Larry Cox (I think...) on the 1989 NL East Champion Chicago Cubs

by PacificCub on Oct 20, 2011 2:58 PM CDT up reply actions  

Oh, dear god, not this guy...

If the Cubs still have a chance, no matter how small, it’s still Go Cubs, damn the math and pass the KoolAid.

by eths on Oct 20, 2011 3:33 PM CDT up reply actions  

I'm hoping it's this guy...

As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.

by santoswoodenlegs on Oct 20, 2011 3:36 PM CDT up reply actions  

That is the next shoe to drop.

Are not the coaches contracts except for Rudy, done at the end of October anyways?

by TJ11 on Oct 20, 2011 9:56 AM CDT up reply actions  

Yes.

Join us for complete MLB coverage at SB Nation's Baseball Nation

by Al Yellon on Oct 20, 2011 9:56 AM CDT up reply actions  

I think it would be a horrible PR move for them to keep Quade.

Do you think, Rudy fits into Theo’s thinking on hitting? Or do think he may make a switch there as well?

by TJ11 on Oct 20, 2011 10:03 AM CDT up reply actions  

I'd have to think all members of the bench staff are negotiable

Surely the new manager will not be forced to take on Jaramillo if there’s somebody he’d rather work with. It’s not like Jaramillo has had resounding success here, and one might have to consider the possibility that his reputation was simply inflated by Texas’s ballpark.

by SouthernCub on Oct 20, 2011 10:05 AM CDT up reply actions  

I think the new manager gets to pick his coaching group.

And I’m sure Sandberg has his team planned out. That’s the scenario that I’m crossing my fingers for.

by Tat14 on Oct 20, 2011 10:56 AM CDT up reply actions  

Yeah, I am

because I think he’d be an unmitigated disaster.

by Not Bruce Froemming on Oct 20, 2011 11:17 AM CDT up reply actions  

OK, we know that.

Again, can you at least admit you MIGHT be wrong?

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by Al Yellon on Oct 20, 2011 11:18 AM CDT up reply actions  

Maybe

but I don’t want to take that chance.

by Not Bruce Froemming on Oct 20, 2011 11:20 AM CDT up reply actions  

I do.

Let’s just agree to disagree until and unless we see what actually happens.

Fair enough?

Join us for complete MLB coverage at SB Nation's Baseball Nation

by Al Yellon on Oct 20, 2011 11:21 AM CDT up reply actions  

Again, Al, fine with me

So anytime someone posts an “I love Ryno” sentiment, it should go unchallenged. Is that right?

by Not Bruce Froemming on Oct 20, 2011 11:37 AM CDT up reply actions  

Whatever

Break out the spaghetti sauce and have a ball.

by Not Bruce Froemming on Oct 20, 2011 11:40 AM CDT up reply actions  

I think part of it may be that you have your opinion..

and a number of people on the site have the opposite opinion.

Yet you feel obliged to counter-post to each one of them, back and forth. As of my looking at this page, you have 38 of the 274 posts on this thread, the large majority being you pushing back against the idea of hiring Sandberg as field manager.

(And sorry for being “that guy” who counts posts, but when you do this in thread over thread over the course of the last calendar year, to some people it could come off as a form of trolling the site over this one issue.

Please note that I said “a form of”, and not that I’m calling it actual trolling. You have a reasonable opinion, if not one I agree with. It’s just that you refuse to let a pro-Sandberg comment go unchallenged. Seemingly ever.)

by The Deputy Mayor of Rush Street on Oct 20, 2011 12:04 PM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

It's like a finger in the dike

There are so many pro ones it’s impossible to counter them all.

I have posted on plenty of other subjects as well, so I assure you, this isn’t trolling. I don’t post it if I don’t believe it.

by Not Bruce Froemming on Oct 20, 2011 12:17 PM CDT up reply actions  

Again, I specifically said I - wasn't - calling it trolling.

Just that it comes off that way. And yes, I know you post on other topics, but on this subject, you don’t appear able to let a single pro-Sandberg comment go by. And so you end up arguing with a handful of people every time manager hiring comes up.

If you’d just say your piece once a thread? I imagine all the regular readers here know your position. They aren’t changing your mind. You aren’t changing our minds.

by The Deputy Mayor of Rush Street on Oct 20, 2011 12:38 PM CDT up reply actions  

That's true

And usually it’s the same people arguing, and usually those same people are just looking for an argument. Silly me for taking the bait, I guess.

by Not Bruce Froemming on Oct 20, 2011 12:50 PM CDT up reply actions  

It's no use, NBF...

…all you can do is wait and see and hope Epstein is as smart as people say he is.

R.I.P. Dan Wheldon 1978-2011

by Easy Ed on Oct 20, 2011 2:00 PM CDT up reply actions  

Hope you're right, EE

I’ve got to believe he is, but time will tell.

by Not Bruce Froemming on Oct 21, 2011 12:11 AM CDT up reply actions  

I'm just ready for the GM and managerial situation to be resolved

so we can all shut up about this and go back to arguing about whether Barney is a worthwhile 2B.

by SouthernCub on Oct 20, 2011 11:41 AM CDT up reply actions  

Not really...

…there will be the argument as to why (add name here) _______ ________ was picked over Sandberg. It’s just beginning, I believe…but, that’s just me.

R.I.P. Dan Wheldon 1978-2011

by Easy Ed on Oct 20, 2011 2:05 PM CDT up reply actions  

We all have our opinions

If anti-Ryno sentiment is off limits, Al should make that clear.

It also would be a joke.

by Not Bruce Froemming on Oct 20, 2011 11:49 AM CDT up reply actions  

Clever

Obsess much?

Action takes an equal and opposite reaction.

by Not Bruce Froemming on Oct 20, 2011 11:53 AM CDT up reply actions  

Since I don't really have any tingly feelings over who the next manager is...

I just laugh at most of this, but your insistence on painting every single Sandberg supporter with the same brush is just wrong and simple-minded.

As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.

by santoswoodenlegs on Oct 20, 2011 11:56 AM CDT up reply actions  

First you guys were talking about dikes.

Now you’re talking about tingly feelings.

What is going on here?

"The riches of the game are in the thrills, not the money." --Ernie Banks

by dtpollitt on Oct 20, 2011 12:50 PM CDT up reply actions  

Every good thread seems to have one of these.

I understand his point, as I think everyone does. But to repeat it over and over in discussion after discussion is just over the top. Relax, wait and see, we all know your stance. If you turn out to be right, the pro Sandbergs will admit they were wrong. Also, he hasn’t even been named manager yet..

Show me a good loser, and I'll show you a loser. --Vince Lombardi

by KS_Cub4Life on Oct 20, 2011 12:16 PM CDT up reply actions  

It's deeper than that

Every time someone posts an “I think Sandberg could be a good manager”, he equates it to blind love for his HoF speech or other such nonsense.

Step Two: Develop an organizational plan

by Shanghai Badger on Oct 20, 2011 11:51 AM CDT up reply actions  

Not true

Not every time.

But I’m starting to believe the majority of Ryno-lovers fall into exactly that category.

by Not Bruce Froemming on Oct 20, 2011 11:52 AM CDT up reply actions  

And as soon as you provide some eveidence to support your claims about that...

some of us might start to believe you.

As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.

by santoswoodenlegs on Oct 20, 2011 11:54 AM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

Agreed.

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by Al Yellon on Oct 20, 2011 12:02 PM CDT up reply actions  

Ok NOT Bruce.......

One SIMPLE question…….

Would you rather keep Quade or have Sandberg for next season?

by TJ11 on Oct 20, 2011 2:18 PM CDT up reply actions  

It does come across that way.

But I’ll try to look for evidence of the contrary.

Step Two: Develop an organizational plan

by Shanghai Badger on Oct 20, 2011 12:30 PM CDT up reply actions  

But your record on predictions has been so consistent lately!

MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown

by D98 on Oct 20, 2011 11:32 AM CDT up reply actions  

Does anyone wonder if

NBF dislike of Ryno equal to Milt Pappas dislike of Bruce Froemming?

by Madison Cub Fan on Oct 20, 2011 11:35 AM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

Maybe

Ryno snubbed him an autograph back in 1993 and he’s harboring ill-will towards him.

In my lifetime please!

by Kennabelle on Oct 20, 2011 1:13 PM CDT up reply actions  

What's even more creepy

is grown men and women asking baseball players for autographs. I never have. Bet a lot of people here can’t say that.

by Not Bruce Froemming on Oct 21, 2011 12:12 AM CDT up reply actions  

I was an adult when I caught my first foul ball

Kerry Wood signed it that same night. It was not creepy.

And Kerry was happy to do so.

"Hey.....Cubs win!!!" ---Harry
"Cubs win....what a lucky break!!" ---Harry

by Hammer on Oct 21, 2011 12:50 AM CDT up reply actions  

not only does the ball

have a pine tar thumb print but Wood’s sig. Ill take it.

"Hey.....Cubs win!!!" ---Harry
"Cubs win....what a lucky break!!" ---Harry

by Hammer on Oct 21, 2011 12:52 AM CDT up reply actions  

Sorry, I think adults asking athletes for autographs

is creepy. If you don’t, that’s fine. But I think it’s retrograde adolescent behavior.

by Not Bruce Froemming on Oct 22, 2011 1:14 PM CDT up reply actions  

You're entitled to your opinion.

Many adults have autograph collections. If you don’t, that’s your right. But again, you don’t have the right to bash others who enjoy this hobby.

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by Al Yellon on Oct 23, 2011 8:52 AM CDT up reply actions  

As a proud owner of a signed copy of "Cubs By The Numbers"

I agree.

Dear Great Pumpkin, I am looking forward to your arrival on Halloween Night. I hope you will bring me lots of presents.

by katie casey on Oct 23, 2011 8:59 AM CDT up reply actions  

I have every right to do that, Al

And you’re free to bash me for that as well. We both can defend our views, too.

I think you’re being way oversensitive on this.

by Not Bruce Froemming on Oct 23, 2011 11:01 AM CDT up reply actions  

But I won't bash you for it.

There’s the difference. You’re entitled to feel it’s not an adult hobby. My opinion is different. That’s really all it is.

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by Al Yellon on Oct 23, 2011 11:29 AM CDT up reply actions  

Fair enough

I don’t consider what I said to be “bashing,” but … I can see the distinction you’re trying to make.

by Not Bruce Froemming on Oct 23, 2011 11:33 AM CDT up reply actions  

I don't mind if you think I'm creepy.

I’m also mysterious and spooky,
and altogether ooky

Dear Great Pumpkin, I am looking forward to your arrival on Halloween Night. I hope you will bring me lots of presents.

by katie casey on Oct 23, 2011 11:45 AM CDT up reply actions  

you don't like it therefore it is creepy?

really stinkin thinkin

I always turn to the sports section first. The sports page records people's accomplishments; the front page has nothing but man's failures.
~Earl Warren

by lookingdeadred on Oct 26, 2011 7:51 AM CDT up reply actions  

AMEN!

I always turn to the sports section first. The sports page records people's accomplishments; the front page has nothing but man's failures.
~Earl Warren

by lookingdeadred on Oct 26, 2011 7:51 AM CDT up reply actions  

Never say never.

Sometimes an opportunity arises when you least expect it and you may find yourself unable to resist. As someone who hadn’t ever been interested in getting autographs I just happened to be at the right place and the right time to see a very short line of only about 10 people waiting to meet Pat and Ron.

Now if you could have asked me at the time if there was anyone in the world I would want an autograph of I would have answered Ron Santo (not the Pope, not anyone else). While waiting in line he stopped something he was doing, looked directly at me with a sparkle in his eye and gave me a little wave. You can call it creepy if you want, but for me it was priceless.

It’s not so much the autograph as the memory.

Dear Great Pumpkin, I am looking forward to your arrival on Halloween Night. I hope you will bring me lots of presents.

by katie casey on Oct 21, 2011 8:19 AM CDT up reply actions  

But it's not your decision....

And if Epstein likes a guy for manager (Sandberg or someone else), I’ll go with his pick.

by ClarkFan on Oct 20, 2011 1:28 PM CDT up reply actions  

Why wouldn't someone have thoughts on who he would want?

"No matter how good you are, you're going to lose one-third of your games. No matter how bad you are you're going to win one-third of your games. It's the other third that makes the difference." — Tommy Lasorda
Jim's Fired...Q-Ball Next

by KS_Cub4Life on Oct 20, 2011 11:15 AM CDT up reply actions  

I don't think that's accurate for most folks

I think most folks acknowledge that there are multiple reasonable candidates.

What I think is more accurate is that a select few REALLY want it to be Sandberg, and you latch onto an anti-Sandberg argument with them, and apply it too broadly to “the masses.”

I’d say more people realize there are several capable options out there.

by SouthernCub on Oct 20, 2011 11:23 AM CDT up reply actions  

I hope you're right

But it certainly doesn’t appear that way. Just look at the poll Al ran here about it.

by Not Bruce Froemming on Oct 20, 2011 11:29 AM CDT up reply actions  

Maybe that means that many people

… really think he’s qualified. Just because YOU don’t doesn’t mean everyone else doesn’t.

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by Al Yellon on Oct 20, 2011 11:30 AM CDT up reply actions  

Qualified for what?

Minor-league jobs? Sure.

Major-league jobs? Haven’t seen a rush to give him one.

by Not Bruce Froemming on Oct 20, 2011 11:32 AM CDT up reply actions  

I'm going to disagree with that.

Can we leave this until and unless he is actually hired?

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by Al Yellon on Oct 20, 2011 11:33 AM CDT up reply actions  

No, can't

Premature self-immolation is mandatory.

I'm a Cubs fan. The Jaded Bitterness comes as a Standard Feature.

by timh815 on Oct 20, 2011 11:34 AM CDT up reply actions  

FWIW

I’ve never heard this magical speech, but now it seems like I need to hear this thing and then play it backwards to see if it’s working voodoo on people as NBF KEEPS SAYING. I MEAN HE KEEPS REPEATING OVER AND OVER AGAIN.

www.facebook.com/craighudak

by Craig in South Bend on Oct 20, 2011 12:14 PM CDT up reply actions  

Don't listen to it. Ryno sounds like a fill-in at a Rotary Club dinner.

But the speech as written was pretty good. Some Cubs fans have it up there with the Gettysburg Address and I Have A Dream. It’s not. But it does address the steroid issue which was something I wasn’t expecting Ryno to touch on.

by the nth on Oct 20, 2011 12:33 PM CDT up reply actions  

You need to listen to it backwards

and at half speed. Then you can make out who killed Kennedy, where Jimmy Hoffa was buried and why the Cubs didn’t have a decent third baseman between Santo and Ramirez.

And do it while watching the Wizard of Oz if you want a truly mind-blowing experience.

by Josh Timmers on Oct 20, 2011 12:36 PM CDT up reply actions  

Man Josh

You’re really on a roll today, Theo and Jed must have put you in a really good mood.

by chrisw95 on Oct 20, 2011 12:46 PM CDT up reply actions  

A poll that says Sandberg is most people's first choice...

doesn’t mean they think he’s the only qualified choice.

If you asked people to select all of the guys people think are capable of doing the job, you’d probably see this.

by SouthernCub on Oct 20, 2011 11:33 AM CDT up reply actions  

I wish I could post a poll that had multiple choices.

But we don’t have that functionality.

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by Al Yellon on Oct 20, 2011 11:37 AM CDT up reply actions  

Who Should the Cubs Hire to Replace Quade?

A) Ryne Sandberg
B) Ryno!
C) A Cubs Hall of Fame Second Baseman.
D) Chicago’s good old #23.. I mean the famous one. No, not THAT famous. Not the kick returner, you jamoke! I mean the retired #23 who isn’t already a Chicago baseball manager.
E) Someone who knows how to hit two homers off Bruce Sutter in one game.
F) Bring someone over from the Phillies organization – that worked out pretty good when we got Ryne Sandberg from them.
G) Are you kidding? There’s only one man remotely qualified to manage the Cubs!
H) Someone besides Ryne Sandberg.

by The Deputy Mayor of Rush Street on Oct 20, 2011 12:15 PM CDT up reply actions  

J

Anyone but Quade.

Show me a good loser, and I'll show you a loser. --Vince Lombardi

by KS_Cub4Life on Oct 20, 2011 12:18 PM CDT up reply actions  

i thought he was eliminating Robin Venrtura

Chronologically inept since 2060
Q: Why did Chuck Norris cross the road?
A: Ditka
Ditka's mustache can kill two stones with one bird
It is better to spend money like there's no tomorrow than to spend tonight like there's no money! - Irish toast.

by Cubbie-Tim on Oct 20, 2011 6:29 PM CDT up reply actions  

For the record..

not THAT famous = Jordan
kick returner = Hester
isn’t already a manager = Ventura

(And what’s up with the Blackhawks? Stu Grimson? Wayne Van Dorp?)

by The Deputy Mayor of Rush Street on Oct 20, 2011 8:46 PM CDT up reply actions  

once upon a time in Chicago #23

was worn on each team

Ventura
Sandberg
Shaun Gayle
Stu Grimson

Chronologically inept since 2060
Q: Why did Chuck Norris cross the road?
A: Ditka
Ditka's mustache can kill two stones with one bird
It is better to spend money like there's no tomorrow than to spend tonight like there's no money! - Irish toast.

by Cubbie-Tim on Oct 20, 2011 9:12 PM CDT up reply actions  

I. Ditka

Where is Mike Ditka in this discussion?

Ditka versus the entire NL Central? Who would win?

by airweino on Oct 21, 2011 1:20 AM CDT up reply actions  

Forget the NL Central - try this one on for size...

The ultimate four way showdown:

Ditka vs Chuck Norris vs The Most Interesting Man in the World vs Honey Badger

I’ve looked at this from a thousand different angles and I still can’t pick a winner. About the only thing I’ve concluded is the Dos Equis man finishes 4th. And that’s only because he was thirsty for a beer…

Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."

by ballhawk on Oct 21, 2011 8:53 AM CDT up reply actions  

honey badger 3rd

because even though he can get bit by a cobra and only pass out. he still passes out…

So i you can give you can take it.

by epsilon on Oct 21, 2011 9:37 AM CDT up reply actions  

is this Ditka

or Mini Ditka?

and remember Ditka can kill two stones with one bird

Chronologically inept since 2060
Q: Why did Chuck Norris cross the road?
A: Ditka
Ditka's mustache can kill two stones with one bird
It is better to spend money like there's no tomorrow than to spend tonight like there's no money! - Irish toast.

by Cubbie-Tim on Oct 21, 2011 10:48 AM CDT up reply actions  

Just a small question:

HOW IN GOD’S NAME ARE YOU STILL HERE?

"The riches of the game are in the thrills, not the money." --Ernie Banks

by dtpollitt on Oct 21, 2011 3:33 PM CDT up reply actions   2 recs

Right.

Sure, Dave Martinez is qualified. So is Terry Francona (though I think he will take a year off). DeMarlo Hale (Boston bench coach) is qualified.

Sandberg is my first choice. Others differ.

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by Al Yellon on Oct 20, 2011 11:34 AM CDT up reply actions  

By far my personal first choice..

and given the fact that I don’t think we can turn EVERYTHING around in one, although minimal possibility always there, if he does a poor job, then show him the door. IMO, he deserves a shot, and if not here, I still believe he deserves a shot somewhere.

Show me a good loser, and I'll show you a loser. --Vince Lombardi

by KS_Cub4Life on Oct 20, 2011 12:00 PM CDT up reply actions  

meh on manager selection

If Theo likes Ryno, bring him in. That could sell some tickets through May.

I'm a Cubs fan. The Jaded Bitterness comes as a Standard Feature.

by timh815 on Oct 20, 2011 12:03 PM CDT up reply actions  

I agree on that.

I stand behind whoever he picks. But at the same time, I think that Sandberg in general deserves a shot with somebody at sometime in the near future, even if not the Cubs. If he pulls a Quade, well there you go, you found out. It’s like not giving the young people a chance to play in September (subtle jab at Q). You need to find out sometime whether people, managers or players, are ready and poised for the majors. If Theo doesn’t want to try Sandberg so be it. But I think his chance we come soon somewhere. It’s not just because he’s a HOF Chicago Cub. Although as you have correctly stated, it would without a doubt help with the PR here if he’s hired. I only see that as a bonus, because he’s had minor league success, ergo..deserving of a shot.

Show me a good loser, and I'll show you a loser. --Vince Lombardi

by KS_Cub4Life on Oct 20, 2011 12:11 PM CDT up reply actions  

Don't do it to sell tickets.

That would be the wrong reason. Hire him because he’s qualified. Selling tickets would be a side bonus.

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by Al Yellon on Oct 20, 2011 12:30 PM CDT up reply actions  

Exactly.

If it’s 50/50 on Ryno and (other guy) on other accounts, I would prefer Ryno due to buzz it would create.

I'm a Cubs fan. The Jaded Bitterness comes as a Standard Feature.

by timh815 on Oct 20, 2011 12:31 PM CDT up reply actions  

I thought the second the White Sox didnt hire

Martinez he should be the Cubs #1 choice.

I have liked what I have read about Sandberg as a manager. So I would put him at my #2.

I would not mind Sandberg on the bench as another defensive mind for Starlin to listen too.

"Hey.....Cubs win!!!" ---Harry
"Cubs win....what a lucky break!!" ---Harry

by Hammer on Oct 20, 2011 12:51 PM CDT up reply actions  

An actual good anti-Sandberg argument.

People may disagree with that but at least you put thought behind your reasoning and didn’t completely dismiss Sandberg as a possible candidate. Kudos on your argument Hammer.

Show me a good loser, and I'll show you a loser. --Vince Lombardi

by KS_Cub4Life on Oct 20, 2011 12:59 PM CDT up reply actions  

But is he qualified at all for an upper-level managerial job

Not the Pirates or the Royals, but one of the elite franchises in baseball.

Look at it this way: If Sandberg didn’t have a Cubs connection but had the exact same resume he has now, would so many fans be anointing him as “the one”? Or would he be just another guy in the mix, probably not even among the top two?

by Not Bruce Froemming on Oct 20, 2011 1:07 PM CDT up reply actions  

Maybe, maybe not...

As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.

by santoswoodenlegs on Oct 20, 2011 1:12 PM CDT up reply actions  

What do you expect him to say? Maybe he honestly doesn't know.

While there may not be a line around the block to give him a managerial job, he’s clearly respected around baseball. Evidently the Red Sox wanted him to manage their AAA team and the phillies got him. It’s not like every other team in baseball was pointing and laughing at us for having him manage our farm teams.

I get that you don’t want us to be his first major league managerial job, but in your zeal to show that, you act like the man can’t tie his own shoes. Someone has got to give him his first job, we are probably going to have an opening.

This is coming from someone who would much rather have Dave Martinez mind you

by Nunyabidness on Oct 20, 2011 7:58 PM CDT up reply actions  

i have a gut feeling

you are more worried about what he might not do and due to that you are not interested in taking the risk. I get it, and it makes some sense, but at the same time without taking a risk you stand still and do not move forward.

I am not 100%% sold on him, but i believe he can be a good manager. there is only one way to see what happens with him as a manager, and that is for him to do it, and that team most likely will be the Cubs who make the offer, take the chance, and either sink or swim.

If/when he is hired by the Cubs to manage, i hope you take the high road, wait and see what happens, and hopefully cheer him on to victory

Chronologically inept since 2060
Q: Why did Chuck Norris cross the road?
A: Ditka
Ditka's mustache can kill two stones with one bird
It is better to spend money like there's no tomorrow than to spend tonight like there's no money! - Irish toast.

by Cubbie-Tim on Oct 20, 2011 8:36 PM CDT up reply actions  

what team are you referring to as elite franchise in baseball?

look, you cant separate his name and his legacy from his managerial career. that being said, his legacy is not the prime factor in my wanting him to be the Chicago Cubs manager. his legacy is a nice little addition to his resume as a manager.

So i you can give you can take it.

by epsilon on Oct 20, 2011 1:12 PM CDT up reply actions  

Five years of minor-league experience

is enough, in your mind, to manage an elite franchise (and the Cubs are one, recent on-field performance to the contrary).

by Not Bruce Froemming on Oct 20, 2011 1:18 PM CDT up reply actions  

the cubs are not elite.

and yes, five years of producing down in the minor leagues leads me to believe he has what it takes to lead the Cubs.

So i you can give you can take it.

by epsilon on Oct 20, 2011 1:22 PM CDT up reply actions  

The Cubs are elite

and five years isn’t enough, but I respect your view, although I disagree profoundly.

by Not Bruce Froemming on Oct 20, 2011 1:24 PM CDT up reply actions  

What's your definition of "elite"????

Because the Cubs are and have been shitty for a MAJORITY of the last few decades.

As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.

by santoswoodenlegs on Oct 20, 2011 1:26 PM CDT up reply actions  

Elite?

You have got to be shitting me with that statement. The Red Sox, Yankees, Phillies, etc. are elite clubs. The Cubs aren’t even close to that.

The hope is that they join that club soon.

www.facebook.com/craighudak

by Craig in South Bend on Oct 20, 2011 2:26 PM CDT up reply actions  

The Cubs should be elite.

But they had some dope running things for too long.

Theo! Good job, Tommy Boy!

by shoemile on Oct 20, 2011 2:29 PM CDT up reply actions  

dopes

much of the last 80 years

I'm a Cubs fan. The Jaded Bitterness comes as a Standard Feature.

by timh815 on Oct 20, 2011 2:32 PM CDT up reply actions  

No, let's give him 13 years of minor league experience...

so can make the counter argument that “nobody gave him a shot at managing a ML club in 13 years, so he must not be good”.

As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.

by santoswoodenlegs on Oct 20, 2011 1:25 PM CDT up reply actions  

How do you define elite?

Baseball is pitching, offensive production, baserunning and defense.

by daver on Oct 20, 2011 1:25 PM CDT up reply actions  

What makes the Cubs an elite franchise.

Other than being a big market, it’s been pretty mediocre overall for a long long time with a season here and there that is successful. Before Piniella, the last time the Cubs had 3 winning seasons were late 60’s early 70’s. The Cubs are not elite any manner.

by ubercubsfan on Oct 20, 2011 1:26 PM CDT up reply actions  

Yup

the Cubs are upper-tier in payroll and popularity, but decidedly mediocre/bad in on-field quality. That’s true both currently and historically.

Elite is a strange choice of words to describe the Cubs.

by SouthernCub on Oct 20, 2011 1:31 PM CDT up reply actions  

Good question...

…and my first response would be no. Rudy seems to come somewhat from the Jim Hendry school of hitting; hack away.

"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel

by MPH73 on Oct 20, 2011 10:05 AM CDT up reply actions  

I think if you're going to clean house, you clean it all

Keeping Rudy and letting the others go doesn’t make sense to me. Nobody on that coaching staff has done anything to earn another year.

by JG23 on Oct 20, 2011 10:28 AM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

I will certainly not be heartbroken if Jaramillo is let go

I definitely don’t think he’s worlds better than other options for hitting coach.

by SouthernCub on Oct 20, 2011 10:32 AM CDT up reply actions  

I know that this is the predominant view on this site

However, I’m not going to blame the struggles of veterans on him. It is debatable how much any hitting coach really helps veterans.

The two projects that I think most people would consider his most important seem to be progressing quite well. Castro is flourishing. Barney doesn’t have the top tier talent, but he’s been more impressive than most people thought he would. If he was the hitting coach for BJax next year, I won’t be unhappy.

by jerry morales rules on Oct 20, 2011 10:53 AM CDT up reply actions  

I disagree on Castro and Barney

Both seem to have the same free-swinging approach as they came to the Cubs with. And Barney ended up basically where he should have been expected (about a .650 OPS guy). He just got off to a hot start, so people overlooked that his May-Sept was sub .650.

Castro I think is simply a ridiculously talented player. He’s been a hitter from day 1 with the Cubs, and I don’t see a whole lot that suggests Jaramillo has done much with him.

I won’t be heartbroken if Jaramillo stays. But I think his reputation was overstated in Texas, and I haven’t seen anything to suggest he NEEDS to stay.

by SouthernCub on Oct 20, 2011 11:00 AM CDT up reply actions  

I agree that he doesn't NEED to stay

I just don’t see a reason that he NEEDS to go. This is far, far down the list of things that need to change.

by jerry morales rules on Oct 20, 2011 11:02 AM CDT up reply actions  

I don't think anyone can make a valid statistical case

as to why Jaramillo should be retained. Texas doesn’t seem to have suffered without him and no Cub really has made Jaramillo-linked strides in the batting cages. I think the Cubs would have hit just as well/poorly this past season without him.

by dakoose on Oct 20, 2011 11:02 AM CDT up reply actions  

Actually espnradio said Lester Strode was signed through next year as well

That might be a tough deal to swallow from Ricketts perspective…

Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."

by ballhawk on Oct 20, 2011 11:00 AM CDT up reply actions  

I'm glad...

…Ricketts has agreed to have; baseball people, watching his baseball people.

I would think Theo will be deeply involved in every part of determining the course of the baseball organization, because that will be ultra important.

"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel

by MPH73 on Oct 20, 2011 9:43 AM CDT reply actions  

Darkest

The old saying “It’s always darkest before the dawn” may be true here. Cubs just finished a horrible year, Cards are in WS, but the good times may be on the horizon!

"It's a funny old world. Man's lucky if he gets out of it alive." W.C. Fields

by KedzieKid on Oct 20, 2011 9:47 AM CDT reply actions  

Unrelated

Is it just me, or is the Fan Posts and Fan Shots not appearing for others on the right side of the screen?

Now, back to Epstein: Great news! TOMGOTERDONE!

by ZeoBandit on Oct 20, 2011 9:47 AM CDT reply actions  

Try clearing your cache and reloading.

Looks fine from here.

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by Al Yellon on Oct 20, 2011 9:49 AM CDT up reply actions  

Tried that

The posts and shots appearred initially, before I re-logged in. Once I signed in, they disappeared again.

by ZeoBandit on Oct 20, 2011 9:52 AM CDT up reply actions  

mine are gone too

"I've got a head full of whiskey and some bad ideas" - Scott Holt

by Ihatethecards on Oct 20, 2011 9:55 AM CDT up reply actions  

Send to

support (at) sbnation (dot) com

Make sure you tell them what browser and OS you are using.

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by Al Yellon on Oct 20, 2011 9:55 AM CDT up reply actions  

Just watch you Melo ads

That may be the most of the NBA that you see this year.

"Just shut up and play" - Matt Garza

by RiskyBusiness on Oct 20, 2011 9:52 AM CDT up reply actions  

I have the same problem again too.

Every time they put a rolling ad at the top it does this.

by sue369 on Oct 20, 2011 5:55 PM CDT up reply actions  

And the merry go round continues

Tweet from Boston writer Nick Cafardo:

Sox GM (to be) Ben Cherington said reports of a deal between Sox and Cubs on Epstein are “premature. Haven’t heard anything this morning.”

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by Al Yellon on Oct 20, 2011 9:50 AM CDT reply actions  

And just when I thought it was safe to go back to my BCB blog.

I thought this was over but I’m feeling more haggling coming. Let’s get this over with and talk about how LaRussa is changing the landscape of bullpen use and if this is a trend that more teams will pick up on. It may lead to more arguing about how many pitchers we are to carry next year, which would be a welcome change from All Theo All the Time.

We'll miss you Big Boy. #10 for Hall of Fame.

by mrcubsfan on Oct 20, 2011 9:55 AM CDT up reply actions  

Regarding Hoyer:

From the ESPN Chicago article, which has been updated:

Hoyer will be granted permission to leave when San Diego promotes senior vice president of baseball operations Josh Byrnes to vice president-general manager, a source said. Byrnes was GM of the Arizona Diamondbacks when Moorad was part-owner of the Diamondbacks. Sources said Moorad always had wanted Byrnes to return to the job, even though he respected Hoyer, who he hired in 2010.

There will be no compensation for Hoyer, a source said.

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by Al Yellon on Oct 20, 2011 9:51 AM CDT reply actions  

Well, that's good.

Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.

by elgato on Oct 20, 2011 9:53 AM CDT up reply actions  

Sounds like Moorad

wants to make Byrnes GM but he didn’t have a reason to fire Hoyer. This gives him a chance to make the switch.

by Josh Timmers on Oct 20, 2011 9:57 AM CDT up reply actions  

Yeah, that's the way I read it too

A good situation for both sides, who each get the GM they wanted.

by SouthernCub on Oct 20, 2011 10:10 AM CDT up reply actions  

TJ, you can snark all you want.

Kenney will be heading business operations. You can bet Theo and Jed won’t let him butt into baseball.

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by Al Yellon on Oct 20, 2011 9:56 AM CDT up reply actions  

Hopefully

he’ll be overseeing the new ST facilities in Mesa. Then he’s got other things to do.

by Josh Timmers on Oct 20, 2011 9:57 AM CDT up reply actions  

I'm Irish/English

And I don’t look good in those floppy hats that Jerry Angelo wears at Bear’s camp.

"Just shut up and play" - Matt Garza

by RiskyBusiness on Oct 20, 2011 10:06 AM CDT up reply actions  

I got a problem with South Park

I know they’re mocking prejudice, but too many people don’t get the joke. Especially kids.

by Josh Timmers on Oct 20, 2011 10:10 AM CDT up reply actions  

Absolutely not!

It pushes the envelope more than any TV program that isn’t on the pay cable stations.

I think it’s brilliant social commentary, but certainly not appropriate for a younger audience.

by jerry morales rules on Oct 20, 2011 10:48 AM CDT up reply actions  

When I mean Kids

I meant teenagers—kids in high school. Kind of tough to keep them from watching it.

And no, they don’t get the joke.

by Josh Timmers on Oct 20, 2011 11:05 AM CDT up reply actions  

Fair point, but at some point kids are going to get exposed to things that their parents wouldn't approve of

You do the best you can and hope they make good choices based on what you taught them.

Easy for me to say; I’m not a parent.

Step Two: Develop an organizational plan

by Shanghai Badger on Oct 20, 2011 11:21 AM CDT up reply actions  

You're right

My five year old will sometimes look at the TV while I’m watching it, but it’s way over her head and she doesn’t get any of it. A teenager wouldn’t either, but would just take it as a way to bully people “Cartman-style”!

by timmyfan on Oct 20, 2011 4:01 PM CDT up reply actions  

That is what I am hoping as well.

Ricketts must think highly of him to keep him around.

by TJ11 on Oct 20, 2011 10:00 AM CDT up reply actions  

Well... at least one person does

You can’t seem to find any living soul who has anything positive to say about Kenney.

by dmlichte on Oct 20, 2011 10:13 AM CDT up reply actions  

Is that an endorsement...

… or more proof that Kenney needs to go?

They own 5% of the team, hardly a right to dictate the President of business operations.

by dmlichte on Oct 20, 2011 12:08 PM CDT up reply actions  

The Tribune's ownership share

is just a tax-avoidance scheme. Legal, but it shouldn’t be.

But you are right—they have no say in what happens with the team.

by Josh Timmers on Oct 20, 2011 12:20 PM CDT up reply actions  

Wasn't that more like the "first straw"?

What had he done prior to that to earn people’s ire?

by SouthernCub on Oct 20, 2011 10:51 AM CDT up reply actions  

Perhaps it's the only straw, then

I didn’t think he had much worthiness before that incident, but I didn’t actively dislike him until then.

by Not Bruce Froemming on Oct 20, 2011 10:59 AM CDT up reply actions  

Yeah, I honestly know only of his priest incident

I don’t have any idea what his day-to-day role is, but I doubt he has much if any baseball-related involvement, so I’m not terribly concerned about him.

by SouthernCub on Oct 20, 2011 11:01 AM CDT up reply actions  

Agreed.

I understand why Kenney rubs many baseball fans the wrong way. He has a certain corporate look about him that seems to bother people. (And, of course, the Greek priest debacle was an awful decision.) But I simply don’t have enough to go on to buy into the idea that he’s incompetent. I am, however, very happy that he’ll be restricted to the business side of operations.

Baseball is pitching, offensive production, baserunning and defense.

by daver on Oct 20, 2011 12:26 PM CDT up reply actions  

Good. Anyone with the name "Crane" is a big deal.

It’s state law.

"You know they're not going to lose 162 consecutive games." -Harry Caray

by Mapanator on Oct 20, 2011 9:56 AM CDT reply actions  

Wonderful news

I defended Hendry, and still will, but this is the upgrade of upgrades. Epstein is the perfect choice, by all accounts and appearances.

Now, I just hope this works. If it doesn’t, the situation might really be hopeless.

by Not Bruce Froemming on Oct 20, 2011 10:08 AM CDT reply actions  

100% in the same boat NBF

It’s an exciting time to be a Cubs fan

by alkappy on Oct 20, 2011 10:09 AM CDT up reply actions  

I'd be more excited

If we were up 1-0 in the World Series instead of our rivals.

In my lifetime please!

by Kennabelle on Oct 20, 2011 1:22 PM CDT up reply actions  

You make an excellent point.

This is the best possible hire (or hires) to fix the Cubs and win a championship.

If they can’t do it… well then, it might literally be impossible.

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by Al Yellon on Oct 20, 2011 10:10 AM CDT up reply actions  

Epstein and Co. are the only ones who can really know

what this is like without having been Cubs. Nobody else comes close.

by Not Bruce Froemming on Oct 20, 2011 10:14 AM CDT up reply actions  

This is a MAJOR upgrade......

Hendry was there way too long. The next step has to be the manager……

by TJ11 on Oct 20, 2011 10:20 AM CDT up reply actions  

If they do, that would be

a sign that they’re not all they’re cracked up to be.

Give me Francona or Davey Martinez, if indeed Quade is out.

by Not Bruce Froemming on Oct 20, 2011 10:37 AM CDT up reply actions  

Need a new manager

I can’t see them keeping Quade. He wasn’t ready in my opnion in the first place.

by nugget742 on Oct 20, 2011 10:40 AM CDT up reply actions  

I'll be shocked if Francona or Quade is the manager of the Cubs next year

I’d be okay with either Martinez or Sandberg. I’m not sure what your anti-Sandberg obsession is, especially given your recommendation of Martinez who also has no managerial experience.

I’d be okay with Francona, though I think he’d be highly overpaid for what he actually did. Remember he took over a 93-win team that then added Curt Schilling. So it’s not like he took some struggling franchise and built a winner out of it with his managerial genius.

by SouthernCub on Oct 20, 2011 10:45 AM CDT up reply actions  

Doesn't Martinez have MLB bench coach experience?

I think that’s the logical step before actual manager, isn’t it?

by ubercubsfan on Oct 20, 2011 10:48 AM CDT up reply actions  

It's A logical step

not all good managers were bench coaches first. My point wasn’t to discredit Martinez as a candidate. I think Martinez is a reasonable candidate. I think Sandberg is also a reasonable candidate. I think there are probably lots of other reasonable candidates.

by SouthernCub on Oct 20, 2011 10:50 AM CDT up reply actions  

It was his first MLB job.

I don’t know that all bench coaches are created the same, if you catch my drift.

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by D98 on Oct 20, 2011 11:03 AM CDT up reply actions  

I dont want Martinez.....Sandberg is the way to go.....

I dont understand his issues either. Sandberg went to the minors and paid his dues…..

You can say Quade did the same….but I think we saw why he stayed a minor league manager for so long.

by TJ11 on Oct 20, 2011 10:48 AM CDT up reply actions  

In TJ-like fashion, I'll ask

why don’t you want Martinez? No logical reason not to like him. Former Cub, learned from Maddon.

by Not Bruce Froemming on Oct 20, 2011 11:02 AM CDT up reply actions  

Again, the lionization of his HOF speech

continues.

So Ryno is the only person who won’t foster a country-club atmosphere? Or maybe there isn’t as much of a country-club atmosphere as you think?

by Not Bruce Froemming on Oct 20, 2011 11:04 AM CDT up reply actions  

That's more than a speech.

It’s what has been reported by multiple sources on the way he holds his players accountable.

We know you don’t like him — must have been some sort of personal run-in with him.

Can you at least admit that he DOES have credentials?

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by Al Yellon on Oct 20, 2011 11:17 AM CDT up reply actions  

He does have some

enough for a job on a big-league staff, certainly.

I’m convinced that if he wasn’t an ex-Cub and his name was something like Ryne Smith with exactly the same resume, most people here wouldn’t give him the time of day.

by Not Bruce Froemming on Oct 20, 2011 11:19 AM CDT up reply actions  

There's no doubt that his status does confer something extra.

To me, it’s the HALL OF FAME playing career.

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by Al Yellon on Oct 20, 2011 11:20 AM CDT up reply actions  

HOF career means nothing to me

A lot of HOF players couldn’t hack it as a big-league manager.

by Not Bruce Froemming on Oct 20, 2011 11:21 AM CDT up reply actions  

Good for him

Wonder why the Pirates, Mariners or a host of others didn’t recognize that diligence last year and reward him with a job, any job, in their big-league organization.

by Not Bruce Froemming on Oct 20, 2011 11:23 AM CDT up reply actions  

No one can answer that.

However, he now has another year of experience and was brought to the Phillies major league bench in September as a reward. Many in that organization praised his work.

Why can’t you?

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by Al Yellon on Oct 20, 2011 11:24 AM CDT up reply actions  

That's fine

maybe he should spend a few years as a full-time big-league bench coach, then. Will the Phillies give him that opportunity next season?

by Not Bruce Froemming on Oct 20, 2011 11:25 AM CDT up reply actions  

I don't know.

But there are others who have gone from positions like the one Sandberg has had, to major league manager. Why not him?

He has more experience than the guy the White Sox hired, for example.

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by Al Yellon on Oct 20, 2011 11:26 AM CDT up reply actions  

Former player with zero coaching experience

is not equal to

former player with Hall of Fame credentials with several years managing experience in the minor leagues.

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by Al Yellon on Oct 20, 2011 11:28 AM CDT up reply actions  

But you fall back on the HOF credentials.

There is no difference between Ventura and Sandberg when it comes to the value of their playing career to their managing ability.

Obviously Sandberg’s managing experience is relevant to the discussion.

John Grabow: $4.8 million in 2011.

by rlpete on Oct 20, 2011 12:01 PM CDT up reply actions  

Wait.

I said

Hall of Fame credentials with several years managing experience in the minor leagues.

That’s more than just “HOF credentials”.

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by Al Yellon on Oct 20, 2011 12:02 PM CDT up reply actions  

I know that wasn't the only reason but

you mentioned Ryno’s HOF credentials versus Ventura only being a former player. I understand that you also mentioned Sandberg’s managerial experience which is very valid. HOF versus good ex-player means nothing.

I’m neutral on Sandberg. Whoever Epstein wants is fine with me. I suspect that Epstein won’t be too concerned about the HOF part.

John Grabow: $4.8 million in 2011.

by rlpete on Oct 20, 2011 12:10 PM CDT up reply actions  

I think that Ventura is a bad example

However, Sandberg does possess a resume that meets the minimum requirements of being a major league manager. Quade had a resume impressive enough as well.

After that, it’s a guess at to whether they will be effective or not on the major league level.

Ventura simply does not have the credentials. It may work out well for them, but i’s all based on what Williams “feels”.

by jerry morales rules on Oct 20, 2011 11:30 AM CDT up reply actions  

So do I

I have been a head coach for a 13 year old team

"Hey.....Cubs win!!!" ---Harry
"Cubs win....what a lucky break!!" ---Harry

by Hammer on Oct 20, 2011 12:53 PM CDT up reply actions  

Maybe so

But last year Epstein wanted to hire him as Pawtucket’s manager, even though Sandberg has no connection to the Red Sox. Does that count for anything?

by Jody Jody Davis on Oct 20, 2011 11:23 AM CDT up reply actions  

Source, please?

Not denying that happened, but this is the first I’ve heard about it.

by Not Bruce Froemming on Oct 20, 2011 11:24 AM CDT up reply actions  

There was a link posted here when the Epstein thing was first mentioned.

I’ll see if I can find it.

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by Al Yellon on Oct 20, 2011 11:24 AM CDT up reply actions  

Here you go

Link

Relevant quote:

And Sandberg is no stranger to Epstein, who interviewed him for Boston’s Class AAA managing job in Pawtucket last year. Sandberg turned down the job, having already all but committed to the AAA job at Lehigh Valley with his original organization, Philadelphia.

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by Al Yellon on Oct 20, 2011 11:25 AM CDT up reply actions  

Rozner, who is Sandberg's mouthpiece,

just said on the Score that Lehigh Valley was the only offer he had.

Even if Epstein had offered him the Pawtucket job, that doesn’t mean he’d offer him the big-league top job.

by Not Bruce Froemming on Oct 20, 2011 11:27 AM CDT up reply actions  

"Sandberg's mouthpiece"

… doesn’t necessarily know everything.

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by Al Yellon on Oct 20, 2011 11:27 AM CDT up reply actions  

"Sandberg's mouth" had a different take:
“I went up there (Boston) in the middle of (November),” Sandberg said. “They were my second interview within a 48-hour span. I went into Philadelphia first then flew into Boston and interviewed with them. It went well.”
Sandberg said Detroit and the Chicago White Sox also contacted him for Triple-A gigs, as well.

“I’m friends with (Red Sox manager) Terry Francona so he was a friendly voice who called me and said, ‘Hey, we’d love to have you in the organization,’” Sandberg said. “That urged me to take the interview and go through that process.”

Bottom line – when the guy who brought you from Philly to Chicago offers to bring you back from Chicago to Philly…. you kind of have to listen. Sounds as though he’d already told Dallas Green yes, but heard Boston out, too, b/c he’s friends with Francona and because they’re a great organization.

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by D98 on Oct 20, 2011 11:30 AM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

True.

Had there been no offer from Philly, it does sound like he might have taken that job.

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by Al Yellon on Oct 20, 2011 11:31 AM CDT up reply actions  

Regardless...

… it seems real personal. Can you tamp it down, please? WE KNOW HOW YOU FEEL. You’ve said it about 1,579,573,137 times already.

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by Al Yellon on Oct 20, 2011 11:21 AM CDT up reply actions  

"Obsessions" is a little strong.

Some people want him. Some don’t. That’s fair.

If he’s hired, I’d like you to at least say you’ll give him a chance.

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by Al Yellon on Oct 20, 2011 11:22 AM CDT up reply actions  

Slight edit

I won’t be happy about it (I’m not happy that I have to say it about Quade).

But I’ll be just as willing to do it.

by SouthernCub on Oct 20, 2011 11:25 AM CDT up reply actions  

Actually, people here gave Quade quite a bit of rope.

For a few weeks, anyway.

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by Al Yellon on Oct 20, 2011 11:26 AM CDT up reply actions  

Right.

That was the first straw. There were quite a few last straws.

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by Al Yellon on Oct 20, 2011 11:27 AM CDT up reply actions  

Senor Gato disapproves

Step Two: Develop an organizational plan

by Shanghai Badger on Oct 20, 2011 11:29 AM CDT up reply actions  

Wait a sec...

…you’re blaming Quade for starting Russell? Really/ It had nothing to do with the fact that there really wasn’t other options…that the GM was too inept to realize that maybe he should try and find a better solution out there somewhere? It’s time to cut Quade just a bit of slack on this…Hendry gave up on this team a LONG time before the team gave up on Quade.
That being said…Quade needs to be dismissed for other reasons.

R.I.P. Dan Wheldon 1978-2011

by Easy Ed on Oct 20, 2011 2:25 PM CDT up reply actions  

The problem was...

almost right out of the gate he started pulling the rope in as fast as he could.

As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.

by santoswoodenlegs on Oct 20, 2011 11:27 AM CDT up reply actions  

Neither will I.

If he’s hired and turns out to be a lousy manager, I’d have no problem saying I was wrong.

Just as I would for any managerial hire.

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by Al Yellon on Oct 20, 2011 11:27 AM CDT up reply actions  

This is my concern with Sandberg...

He carries a hero’s status in a lot of Cub’s fans minds (this one included). I would hate to see him come in and fail. It would have the same feel to me as his comeback from retirement… initial excitement followed by ‘I wish he wouldn’t have gone out that way’. His legacy is solid, one of the greatest Cubs of all time – I would hate to see that be tarnished.

by JG23 on Oct 20, 2011 1:21 PM CDT up reply actions  

JG23...i hear you...

but Sandberg is an adult and fully in control of his own legacy and reputation…he wants the opportunity, he’s earned the opportunity…that is on him.

So i you can give you can take it.

by epsilon on Oct 20, 2011 1:23 PM CDT up reply actions  

I agree epsilon...

just the 8 year old in me speaking. I don’t want a ‘Michael Jordan as an executive’ kind of fiasco to tarnish the great memories of my favorite baseball player

by JG23 on Oct 20, 2011 1:28 PM CDT up reply actions  

If the results are like Q's...

that seems fair to me..

"No matter how good you are, you're going to lose one-third of your games. No matter how bad you are you're going to win one-third of your games. It's the other third that makes the difference." — Tommy Lasorda
Jim's Fired...Q-Ball Next

by KS_Cub4Life on Oct 20, 2011 11:28 AM CDT up reply actions  

Why wouldn't you give him the same length of rope YOU gave Quade?

Why do you let what others think impact your measuring scale?

Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."

by ballhawk on Oct 20, 2011 11:48 AM CDT up reply actions  

Now that's a fair enough statement to make.

But your previous posts would seem to indicate you want to return the favor by treating Ryno unfairly should he become manager.

Which means you’ll be putting yourself at the same level of those you apparently abhor.

Am I reading the tea-leaves of NBFism correctly?

Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."

by ballhawk on Oct 20, 2011 12:01 PM CDT up reply actions  

So if Ronnie Woo Woo came up and "serenaded" you at a Cubs game...

…you’d shout “Cubs! Opa! Cubs! Opa! Cubs! Opa!” in his ear?

And don’t call me a lass… ;-)

Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."

by ballhawk on Oct 20, 2011 1:30 PM CDT up reply actions  

I don't understand those obsessions either

Basically, what I’ve seen of Quade suggests he’s not a capable manager. I haven’t seen anything of Sandberg or Martinez to say they aren’t capable, so I’d be okay with either hire.

I’d be okay with Francona, but I think he’s overrated.

by SouthernCub on Oct 20, 2011 11:03 AM CDT up reply actions  

Fair enough

The problem is, I think the pressure to hire Sandberg will be immense. I would hope Theo is enough of his own man to make his own decision.

by Not Bruce Froemming on Oct 20, 2011 11:05 AM CDT up reply actions  

I'm sure Epstein is his own man enough

that doesn’t mean that he won’t still think Sandberg is the right decision for him and the Cubs.

If Epstein decides Sandberg is the guy, I’m just fine with that. I’m just fine if he thinks Francona or Martinez is the guy, too.

by SouthernCub on Oct 20, 2011 11:07 AM CDT up reply actions  

Agreed

I don’t think that Epstein will be pressured into hiring Sandberg by the pubic or anyone else. I think he knows that he has some capital to spend.

by jerry morales rules on Oct 20, 2011 11:11 AM CDT up reply actions  

There were reports that Epstein wanted to hire Sandberg last year...

… for the Red Sox Triple-A job. I’m sure he’s quite familiar with his credentials.

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by Al Yellon on Oct 20, 2011 11:18 AM CDT up reply actions  

Oh, I'm not trying to suggest that I don't think

that Sandberg is a viable candidate to be the next manager. I’m just saying that if Epstein hires him, it’s that he thinks Sandberg is the best choice at this time and not because he’d be pressured into it by us or anyone else.

by jerry morales rules on Oct 20, 2011 11:20 AM CDT up reply actions  

You know what experience Dave Martinez *doesn't* have? Managing a baseball team at any level EVER.

Dave Martinez hasn’t even ever held any coaching position OTHER than “bench coach / base running coach” for TBD.

Don’t let your Joe Maddon respect cloud your judgment. You’d be handing a MLB manager job to a guy who has literally never managed a team before ever.

MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown

by D98 on Oct 20, 2011 11:15 AM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

For someone who bashes folks for being pessimistic at times

that last sentence comes off as overly pessimistic.

It’s hard to win a championship. Epstein may or may not do it. If he gets the team repeatedly to the playoffs (which I eventually expect) but doesn’t win, I wouldn’t jump to the “it might be hopeless” viewpoint.

Ricketts appears to be bringing in an entirely new way of running the organization, and Epstein is a sign of that. Even if Epstein doesn’t work out, I have even more faith now that the Cubs will eventually win a World Series than I did with previous ownership and Jim Hendry.

by SouthernCub on Oct 20, 2011 10:28 AM CDT up reply actions  

Agreed....

They were not going to win with that Country Club-Crony network they had before.

by TJ11 on Oct 20, 2011 10:30 AM CDT up reply actions  

Agreed also,

This brings an air of ‘consistently contending’ versus hoping to catch lightning in a bottle once every 8 years or so.

by JG23 on Oct 20, 2011 10:34 AM CDT up reply actions  

Exactly

It’s not that the Cubs have some inherent inability to win a World Series. It’s just that previous management regimes were either not well-structured to contend consistently. Ricketts seems to be showing the willingness to change the organizational approach to increase the probability of contending consistently (which will increase the probability of winning it all).

by SouthernCub on Oct 20, 2011 10:41 AM CDT up reply actions  

It wasn't overly pessimistic

But now there really are no more excuses — that so-and-so didn’t know what he was getting into, that he didn’t have the financial backing he needed, etc.

by Not Bruce Froemming on Oct 20, 2011 10:43 AM CDT up reply actions  

It becomes a blessing and a curse...

We are now so hopeful, but like Al said in an earlier post… If we don’t get a WS win with this group – we may never get one!
Ahhh, the plight of the Cubs fan

by JG23 on Oct 20, 2011 10:47 AM CDT up reply actions  

I think it was overly pessimistic

The excuses are gone. But that doesn’t mean that the first change in the regime HAS to be the one that gets it done.

Good GMs/presidents don’t always win the World Series. It may take until the next GM/president to do it. Hopefully it won’t. But having it not happen with Epstein (as long as the guy after Epstein is similarly capable) doesn’t make it hopeless.

by SouthernCub on Oct 20, 2011 10:47 AM CDT up reply actions  

Every year that goes by without one

makes the pressure even worse.

You’re really telling me that if Epstein doesn’t win a WS with the Cubs that it’ll be OK? Seriously?

by Not Bruce Froemming on Oct 20, 2011 11:01 AM CDT up reply actions  

you're really telling me that you, NBF, personally feel the weight of over a hundred years...

…of not winning a WS on your shoulders every waking moment of the day?

Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."

by ballhawk on Oct 20, 2011 11:03 AM CDT up reply actions  

Not sure where you get that from, BH

But if you’re telling me there isn’t pressure here to win a WS ASAP, I think you’re being disingenuous at best.

by Not Bruce Froemming on Oct 20, 2011 11:07 AM CDT up reply actions  

Actually SouthernCub addressed it better than I did

I was attempting to make a “jump to conclusions” post in similar vein to your “jump to conclusions” post about SouthernCub being ok with it if Cubs don’t win a WS under Theo.

Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."

by ballhawk on Oct 20, 2011 11:53 AM CDT up reply actions  

You have a twisted brain, BH

That’s a compliment, actually. I can appreciate that.

by Not Bruce Froemming on Oct 20, 2011 11:54 AM CDT up reply actions  

well, being left-handed, growing up in Cleveland, and having three concussions will do that to you.

Becoming a Cubs fan didn’t help… :-)

Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."

by ballhawk on Oct 20, 2011 12:03 PM CDT up reply actions  

I don't think he does.

But it is there within the organization. Look at what happened in 2008. It exists.

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by Al Yellon on Oct 20, 2011 11:19 AM CDT up reply actions  

Where did I say it will be OK if Epstein doesn't win one?

I just said it wouldn’t be “hopeless” if he doesn’t win one. There’s a HUGE difference between the two statements.

by SouthernCub on Oct 20, 2011 11:04 AM CDT up reply actions  

There is a distinction there

but I think you’ll be in a very small minority with that viewpoint.

by Not Bruce Froemming on Oct 20, 2011 11:06 AM CDT up reply actions  

Does it matter if I'm in a small minority?

Firstly, I think you overstate the “very small minority” comment.

Secondly (and more importantly), who cares what “Joe fan on a message board” thinks about the chances of winning one?

If we put a winning team on the field (even if we fall short of the title with Epstein), fans will show up. If fans show up, there’ll be money to go after players. If we keep fielding a good organization (even after Epstein), we’ll eventually win a championship.

It doesn’t matter whether 91.7% of people decide it might be hopeless.

by SouthernCub on Oct 20, 2011 11:12 AM CDT up reply actions   2 recs

Well there are at least two in your minority.

I don’t believe the added pressure, extra day games, goat curses, Lou Brock curses or anything else makes winning here in Chicago worse than somewhere like Boston or New York.

The Cubs problem is that they haven’t had a quality organization except for the Dallas Green years in a long. long time. Build a quality organization and contend consistently and the Cubs will eventually win.

John Grabow: $4.8 million in 2011.

by rlpete on Oct 20, 2011 11:42 AM CDT up reply actions  

me makes three

Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."

by ballhawk on Oct 20, 2011 11:54 AM CDT up reply actions  

(insert Vincent Price evil laugh track here...)

Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."

by ballhawk on Oct 20, 2011 11:54 AM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

Well done!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel

by MPH73 on Oct 20, 2011 2:56 PM CDT up reply actions  

Jed and Theo worked wonders in Boston

The addition of Jed Hoyer is huge. It was Jed who helped land Curt Schilling, who put an end to the 86-year curse in Boston. Jed was at Schilling’s house for Thanksgiving when they got serious about the deal.

by Kevin Gray on Oct 20, 2011 10:31 AM CDT reply actions  

Major coup for Ricketts

To do this without giving up McNutt, Bjax, or Szczur is very impressive. It is so nice to have an engaged, knowledgeable, and involved owner.

by jerry morales rules on Oct 20, 2011 10:31 AM CDT reply actions  

Time will tell

Only time will tell if this is a good move. We all want to get hyped up and excited now, but we did the same thing four years ago when Lou came to town. I’m on the bandwaggon, but you’ve got to keep an open mind on all of this.

by nugget742 on Oct 20, 2011 10:36 AM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

Partially true

I think there will be (at least) two times to evaluate these moves – 1) at the time it is made, and 2) sometime in the future after we see this play out.

Assuming that this story is correct and the Cubs top prospects aren’t involved, right now, based on the information we know, it is a very good deal. It may work out poorly and that is something that time will decide, but that may have more to do with other factors than this one.

Here’s an example of what I mean – Mark Prior. Sure, it worked out poorly, but that doesn’t mean that at the time of the decision it was the wrong move. The way that the Cubs went about doing that is what I would like them to replicate going forward. At the time, it was the right thing to do.

by jerry morales rules on Oct 20, 2011 11:00 AM CDT up reply actions  

Huge, huge, huge difference between a new PBO and GM...

…and a manager.

Baseball is pitching, offensive production, baserunning and defense.

by daver on Oct 20, 2011 12:35 PM CDT up reply actions  

I'll give you credit for admitting it.

To be honest, I was on a wait and see approach. This was the off-season I wanted to see some serious commitment. Between the money spent on IFA and the draft and now this, I think he is showing the commitment.

John Grabow: $4.8 million in 2011.

by rlpete on Oct 20, 2011 11:52 AM CDT up reply actions  

Did someone really say that?

Because as long as the Clippers have their owner, and Mike Brown is still owning the Bengals, the highest Ricketts could have hoped to have gotten is #3

by Nunyabidness on Oct 20, 2011 8:15 PM CDT up reply actions  

If McNutt goes I don't have a problem with this.

Two get two well respected people like Hoyer and Theo is worth that cost.
 Next a new manager, and then turn to the rotation.

by Grockcubs on Oct 20, 2011 10:33 AM CDT reply actions  

New 1st Basemen?

Any takers on Albert or Prince, and do you think the new front office would be that daring right off the bat?

by nugget742 on Oct 20, 2011 10:38 AM CDT reply actions  

The number I saw was $150 million

between roster and free agents. If we guess 20 mil for FA, 130 for the big club. Yeah, we can afford Prince.

I'm a Cubs fan. The Jaded Bitterness comes as a Standard Feature.

by timh815 on Oct 20, 2011 10:40 AM CDT up reply actions  

Pujols isn't going anywhere I think

especially if the Cards win the World Series this year.

by SouthernCub on Oct 20, 2011 10:42 AM CDT up reply actions  

depends on if he wants full value.

If their max is $110 mil, he won’t get 30 of it.

I'm a Cubs fan. The Jaded Bitterness comes as a Standard Feature.

by timh815 on Oct 20, 2011 10:43 AM CDT up reply actions  

I think the Cardinals will find a way to make it work

they’ve known for a while that he’ll be a free agent. They know how much he means to the fans and thus how much value he brings to the organization. They’re a smartly-run organization, so I’m sure they’ve budgeted for this.

by SouthernCub on Oct 20, 2011 10:49 AM CDT up reply actions  

My guess would be

That the cardinals will offer him some ownership rights to the club if he will take less annual money for his contract.

"All I want is food and creative love" - Rusted Root

by TheRiot Police on Oct 20, 2011 1:30 PM CDT up reply actions  

Yeah, lots of possibilities

I don’t know exactly how they’ll get it done. But I have little doubt that both sides will figure out a way to get it done.

by SouthernCub on Oct 20, 2011 1:32 PM CDT up reply actions  

Maybe 200MM/10yr with 5MM/yr deferred for 15yrs after.

That would be his 275MM he wanted, and 20MM is what, 6MM more a year than he makes now?

by ubercubsfan on Oct 20, 2011 10:53 AM CDT up reply actions  

He'll want 25 a year

if it is offered.

I'm a Cubs fan. The Jaded Bitterness comes as a Standard Feature.

by timh815 on Oct 20, 2011 10:56 AM CDT up reply actions  

25MM/yr if he's getting 10years.

I can actually see him signing a heavy discount to stay in STL with some good money deferred after he retires.

by ubercubsfan on Oct 20, 2011 10:58 AM CDT up reply actions  

I'm hearing the words partial-ownership.

Of course it may be wishful thinking on the part of some Cards fans, but it could be another solution to the problem. No matter what happens, I think Albert stays in St Louis.

I don’t want to play golf. When I hit a ball, I want someone else to go chase it.

by cub in louies nest on Oct 20, 2011 10:45 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions  

TJ, let it go.

The old regime is done. We’ll have a new one starting soon.

Jeff Baker might stay as a spare part, or be let go. There are far more important issues.

Join us for complete MLB coverage at SB Nation's Baseball Nation

by Al Yellon on Oct 20, 2011 10:55 AM CDT up reply actions  

Cant you have a little fun?

The Cubs were rediculous last year in everything they did…

by TJ11 on Oct 20, 2011 11:04 AM CDT up reply actions  

He's not Deep Goat.

Join us for complete MLB coverage at SB Nation's Baseball Nation

by Al Yellon on Oct 20, 2011 2:43 PM CDT up reply actions  

I would be surprised if anyone really thought he was.

Dear Great Pumpkin, I am looking forward to your arrival on Halloween Night. I hope you will bring me lots of presents.

by katie casey on Oct 20, 2011 2:44 PM CDT up reply actions  

I'm positive this is our man.

"The riches of the game are in the thrills, not the money." --Ernie Banks

by dtpollitt on Oct 20, 2011 2:51 PM CDT up reply actions  

That was

Mocha Goat.

Never confuse your source monikers.

I'm a Cubs fan. The Jaded Bitterness comes as a Standard Feature.

by timh815 on Oct 20, 2011 2:54 PM CDT up reply actions  

Smoke on the latte...

…fire in the tip jar.

Baseball is pitching, offensive production, baserunning and defense.

by daver on Oct 20, 2011 3:13 PM CDT up reply actions  

Are we playing the "but I really thought that's what the lyrics were" game?

Remember REO Speedwagon’s “Roll with the changes”? Back in jr. high, one of my classmates thought “ooooo…turn some pages” was “ooooo… tungsten reggae”

Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."

by ballhawk on Oct 20, 2011 3:33 PM CDT up reply actions  

My wife always mentions...

…that she used to think one of the lines in “Every Breath You Take” by the Police was “you’re a pool hall ace.”

Baseball is pitching, offensive production, baserunning and defense.

by daver on Oct 20, 2011 3:40 PM CDT up reply actions  

Damn, I wish I was a pool hall ace.

Sounds glamorous.

Theo! Good job, Tommy Boy!

by shoemile on Oct 20, 2011 3:45 PM CDT up reply actions  

And lucrative!

Baseball is pitching, offensive production, baserunning and defense.

by daver on Oct 20, 2011 3:48 PM CDT up reply actions  

Don't expect this

A signing like this flies in the face of what you’re trying to do with a Theo Epstein hiring. You build the foundation and sign free agents to compensate. This is not a quick fix.

by dmlichte on Oct 20, 2011 12:10 PM CDT up reply actions  

True but I also don't think Epstein will intentionally tank 2012

and play the mediocre “kids” that many here have proposed.

John Grabow: $4.8 million in 2011.

by rlpete on Oct 20, 2011 12:18 PM CDT up reply actions  

I agree with this

We’ll probably have $120-130 million in MLB payroll. That leaves $30-40 million in free agent money. It may be that Fielder makes the most sense of the available options this offseason – even when looking forward to 2013-2015.

And conveniently, he also improves the team for 2012.

I don’t think we’ll field a playoff team in 2012. But I don’t necessarily see anything wrong with signing Fielder with the idea of deep playoff runs in 2013-2016.

by SouthernCub on Oct 20, 2011 12:37 PM CDT up reply actions  

I would think...

…you will see some activity to revamp the roster to some degree, mostly with trades and maybe one or two FA signings.

"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel

by MPH73 on Oct 20, 2011 12:39 PM CDT up reply actions  

I agree

I don’t see multiple building blocks being brought in via free agency this offseason (simply because of the budget). But I could see 1 or 2, and then as you said some shuffling of guys via trade, some minor (1-year) guys added via free agency.

Then, when Dempster’s and Zambrano’s contracts are gone next year, we’ll see more activity.

by SouthernCub on Oct 20, 2011 12:47 PM CDT up reply actions  

I think

you get building blocks when they’re available. Garza was one last year, Fielder is one this year. If Fielder had only 1 or 2 good years left, then yes…pass. But he should be a valuable part of the team when they are good again.

by John916 on Oct 20, 2011 12:49 PM CDT up reply actions  

I agree

But that doesn’t mean that he’s going to go out and get free agents who are in their prime right now and are likely to start declining when the Cubs are more likely to be contending for a World Series.

by dmlichte on Oct 20, 2011 12:53 PM CDT up reply actions  

What you're trying to do with a Theo hiring

is win.

Signing Fielder (not Albert) puts you in better position to do just that.

by Not Bruce Froemming on Oct 20, 2011 12:21 PM CDT up reply actions  

I get that...

… but there are multiple ways to do that

by dmlichte on Oct 20, 2011 12:52 PM CDT up reply actions  

I agree, 10 years is way to long for anybody.

Show me a good loser, and I'll show you a loser. --Vince Lombardi

by KS_Cub4Life on Oct 20, 2011 1:02 PM CDT up reply actions  

I don't see Theo turning the Cubs around in 2012 or in 2013.

But I can see him putting the Cubs in place to be competing for a playoff spot in 2014 and on consistently. From there, it’s the players job to get it done on the field at that point with Theo adding a piece here and there to put them over the edge.

by ubercubsfan on Oct 20, 2011 1:13 PM CDT up reply actions  

I could see us competing by 2013

but it would take things going well this offseason and next.

by SouthernCub on Oct 20, 2011 1:15 PM CDT up reply actions  

That would require a lot of things to go well and I would welcome it.

But I’m not going to expect overnight success like many want. I know this is going to take time to rebuild the franchise to a point of respectability. Things could go right so that they might make the playoffs in 2013, but I don’t want a team that competes for a wildcard, I want one that competes for the division year in and year out.

by ubercubsfan on Oct 20, 2011 1:19 PM CDT up reply actions  

A few things

1. I don’t think it takes tons to go right for us to be competitive in 2013
2. I don’t think we have to compete for a Wild Card in 2013
3. I don’t think competing in 2013 is in any way mutually exclusive with building a long-term contender

by SouthernCub on Oct 20, 2011 1:22 PM CDT up reply actions  

And I could see us being an 80-85 win team next year

if things played out right. So I guess there’s an outside shot at competing even next year.

That said, I agree that there’s substantial wiggle room between

by SouthernCub on Oct 20, 2011 1:20 PM CDT up reply actions  

I agree that 80-85 wins would get the Wild Card

In the 85 win scenario, we’d have an outside shot at winning the division (again, only if things played out right). I specifically said it’s unlikely we’d make the playoffs next year.

I think we could regularly be a 90+ win team by 2013 with good decisions the next two offseasons. That would put us in contention for both the division and wild card every year.

by SouthernCub on Oct 20, 2011 2:01 PM CDT up reply actions  

I actually agree with you

I think next year they are least functional for half the year and then falter.

2013 – Playoffs
2014 – Deep in the playoffs?

They have two liter bottles now? To think I spent all that time demanding a liter!

by Say Ramrod on Oct 20, 2011 3:46 PM CDT up reply actions  

I think 2014 is too long a wait

And I’m not willing to go through two more years of crap for no guarantee of anything.

by Not Bruce Froemming on Oct 20, 2011 1:20 PM CDT up reply actions  

Prepare to be dissappointed then.

As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.

by santoswoodenlegs on Oct 20, 2011 1:21 PM CDT up reply actions  

OK, Nostradamus

Give me Saturday’s Powerball numbers and you’ll really impress me.

by Not Bruce Froemming on Oct 20, 2011 1:25 PM CDT up reply actions  

What lungs!

"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel

by MPH73 on Oct 20, 2011 2:54 PM CDT up reply actions  

It's like she can scratch the tickets for hours.

I'm a Cubs fan. The Jaded Bitterness comes as a Standard Feature.

by timh815 on Oct 20, 2011 2:55 PM CDT up reply actions  

I bet she's a great swimmer

"We push bunt, we squeeze bunt, we hit and run, we steal home!" - Larry Cox (I think...) on the 1989 NL East Champion Chicago Cubs

by PacificCub on Oct 20, 2011 3:06 PM CDT up reply actions  

People watch TV with

the sole intent of, “That’d be a great thing to post if…”, no?

I'm a Cubs fan. The Jaded Bitterness comes as a Standard Feature.

by timh815 on Oct 20, 2011 3:08 PM CDT up reply actions  

"yada yada yada... those aren't buoys!"

Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."

by ballhawk on Oct 20, 2011 3:34 PM CDT up reply actions  

Boys like to play with buoys.

If the Cubs still have a chance, no matter how small, it’s still Go Cubs, damn the math and pass the KoolAid.

by eths on Oct 20, 2011 3:35 PM CDT up reply actions  

I hope she never wins...

Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."

by ballhawk on Oct 20, 2011 2:55 PM CDT up reply actions  

I'm kind of a big fan of Sofia...

They have two liter bottles now? To think I spent all that time demanding a liter!

by Say Ramrod on Oct 21, 2011 9:00 AM CDT up reply actions  

Considering your future predicting abilities at seeing Ryno will be an abject failure

I’m surprised you don’t know the Powerball numbers yourself.

www.facebook.com/craighudak

by Craig in South Bend on Oct 20, 2011 2:44 PM CDT up reply actions   2 recs

Trust me, I hope they can pull it off, but I look at it realistically.

There just aren’t the players on the roster to be an elite team anytime soon. Sure they can make something happen and hope for a wild card. I’m talking about continued success to the likes that when the Red Sox or Yankee’s miss the playoffs, it’s almost unheard of.

by ubercubsfan on Oct 20, 2011 1:33 PM CDT up reply actions  

two offseasons with $30-40 million to spend each offseason

will go a long way toward changing things.

No reason we can’t win the division in 2013 and beyond. And by 2014-2015, we should start seeing the farm system take shape as well (which will position us to remain competitive).

I think expecting a division-winner next year is unrealistic given where we are right now. But with good decisions this and next offseason, I don’t see why 2013 (and beyond) is an unrealistic target.

by SouthernCub on Oct 20, 2011 1:42 PM CDT up reply actions  

Of course

That’s not a reason why we CAN’T be competitive in 2013. It’s a reason why we MIGHT NOT be competitive in 2013.

It also doesn’t mean that “competing in 2013” and “competing for the long haul” are conflicting ideas.

We can do both. It might not work out that both happen. But we can do both.

by SouthernCub on Oct 20, 2011 1:57 PM CDT up reply actions  

Agreed fully.

Even if they overpay annually for 5-6 years of Fielder…. I don’t see any better options in the system for the next 3-4 years, and I also don’t think it’s likely that a massively better option at 1B is going to hit FA in the next few years.

So…. you kind of just grab the elite pieces when they become available. And keep doing what you’re doing with the minor league philosophy.

Better to sign Fielder at $25MM per, than to sign Dome and Pena at $25MM per.

MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown

by D98 on Oct 20, 2011 1:28 PM CDT up reply actions  

What you're trying to do with a Theo hiring

is win.

Signing Fielder (not Albert) puts you in better position to do just that.

by Not Bruce Froemming on Oct 20, 2011 12:21 PM CDT up reply actions  

Whoops

Well, I guess it bears repeating.

by Not Bruce Froemming on Oct 20, 2011 12:25 PM CDT up reply actions  

"The two sides are on the 5-yard line."

Good to hear this is about to get done – as long as Mike Martz isn’t calling the plays.

by Jody Jody Davis on Oct 20, 2011 10:43 AM CDT reply actions  

That line scared me

"Just shut up and play" - Matt Garza

by RiskyBusiness on Oct 20, 2011 10:46 AM CDT up reply actions  

TELL MARTZ TO $%&*#

-Jay Cutler

Fukudometer: Created 3/31/08 Wrigley Debut 4/5/08 WGN and Japan TV Debut 4/6/08 Sun Times Debut: 4/20/08 Coffee Table Debut: 7/17/08

by Fukudometer on Oct 20, 2011 10:51 AM CDT up reply actions  

How many years

How long of a contract are we willing to give him though. I personally am uneasy with giving anyone a long term contract. Anything over four years is going to make me wonder.

by nugget742 on Oct 20, 2011 10:43 AM CDT reply actions  

We're giving Theo 5

Just sayin’

I'm a Cubs fan. The Jaded Bitterness comes as a Standard Feature.

by timh815 on Oct 20, 2011 10:44 AM CDT up reply actions  

Theo 5

Theo’s performance isn’t going to be affected if he gets a cold or breaks an arm. Can you say SORIANO/ZAMBRANO! Could have been, should have been, haven’t been performers for the money they have been paid.

by nugget742 on Oct 20, 2011 10:47 AM CDT reply actions  

I'd be fine with 6 for Prince

I'm a Cubs fan. The Jaded Bitterness comes as a Standard Feature.

by timh815 on Oct 20, 2011 10:48 AM CDT up reply actions  

Too Long

I wouldn’t be alright with 6 for anyone. There are too many factors that can affect how these guys perfrom over a long period of time. If we could get insurance on a long term contract I’d be all about it.

by nugget742 on Oct 20, 2011 10:51 AM CDT up reply actions  

Tough to sign anyone...

…if you’re not willing to go at least 6 years.

by cubbieblue on Oct 20, 2011 10:53 AM CDT up reply actions  

Let's bat a seventh hitter third

because he has a reasonable contract.

How’d that work?

I'm a Cubs fan. The Jaded Bitterness comes as a Standard Feature.

by timh815 on Oct 20, 2011 10:55 AM CDT up reply actions  

Color me confused...

nickcafardo Nick Cafardo
by CarrieMuskat
Just asked John Henry if Theo deal was close to being done. “No, not close,” he responded.

by Emelie on Oct 20, 2011 11:04 AM CDT reply actions  

Yup

Cubs people are saying it’s done, but the Red Sox people are saying it is not.

I'm Deep Goat

by Cubbiegoon on Oct 20, 2011 11:12 AM CDT up reply actions  

well, some Boston guys are saying it's close

per MLBTR, a guy from WEEI and a guy from the Globe are saying it’s close. Basically, Nick Cafardo is the only guy I’ve seen saying it’s not close.

by SouthernCub on Oct 20, 2011 11:17 AM CDT up reply actions  

I love that they proposed a Garza-for-Lackey trade as the compensation.

Although honestly…. I would have done Soriano-for-Lackey.

MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown

by D98 on Oct 20, 2011 11:25 AM CDT up reply actions  

I think Tom Ricketts would give the same answer if asked today

or at least a “no comment.” No one on either side is going to say anything today to piss off MLB.

by PrincetonCubs on Oct 20, 2011 11:51 AM CDT up reply actions  

College of GMs!!!!!!!!!

much better idea than college of coaches

follow me on twitter for fantasy sports analysis @http://twitter.com/DrewDinkmeyer or get the full analysis at www.fantistics.com

by DartmouthCubsFan on Oct 20, 2011 11:09 AM CDT reply actions  

Heh.

As long as P.K. Wrigley is not involved, we should be fine.

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by Al Yellon on Oct 20, 2011 11:29 AM CDT up reply actions  

What I heard >.....

Was Mcnutt wasn’t involved either

by silkman on Oct 20, 2011 11:55 AM CDT reply actions  

anyone have the link

that was on here a few years ago that stated where people worked for a living?

by cozmotaylor123 on Oct 20, 2011 12:09 PM CDT reply actions  

For the love of God...

… fly Bush, Flieta and Wilken to Boston. Sit them at a table across from Lucchino and Cherington and get this done. There is no reason that this negotiation should have taken this long. This has been the most inane, half assed attempt to negotiate compensation in recent history and personally I think that both sides are to blame.

by dmlichte on Oct 20, 2011 12:12 PM CDT reply actions  

Pretty sure Bush is there, no?

I’m not sure what Fleita and Wilken will add to the negotiating table. I’m quite sure the entirity of the value of their input was provided prior to even entering the negotiating room.

I mean, seriously, what do you think Fleita and Wilken are going to say at this point? “Well, we thought these guys weren’t reasonable compensation a few days ago, but now we think you’re right!”

by SouthernCub on Oct 20, 2011 12:34 PM CDT up reply actions  

Its all via phone

Lucchino is communicating with Kenney. Kenney then refers Lucchino’s player requests to Bush, Wilken and Flieta… Then Kenney calls Lucchino back and so it goes. This according to Dave Kaplan.

by dmlichte on Oct 20, 2011 12:55 PM CDT up reply actions  

They could very well be doing this via conference call

I highly doubt, in this technological age, that there’s really a phone tree approach being used.

by SouthernCub on Oct 20, 2011 12:58 PM CDT up reply actions  

Again...

just saying what Kaplan said last night on WGN in response to Gammons’ report that no one on the Cubs side knew the Cubs minor leaguers that the Red Sox wanted.

by dmlichte on Oct 20, 2011 12:59 PM CDT up reply actions  

I haven't heard what Kaplan specifically said

but I see two possibilities alternative to the “call Kenney, Kenney talks to the other guys, and then Kenney calls back” scenario:

- you may be misreading/hearing what Kaplan meant
- Kaplan may be mistaken as to the negotiation specifics

It could also be that the Cubs simply don’t want untrained negotiators talking, for fear they’d let too much information slip and weaken our position.

In any case, I highly doubt that the process is taking so long simply because of the mode of communication.

by SouthernCub on Oct 20, 2011 1:03 PM CDT up reply actions  

Really.

Why don’t they just use cans and string? Or Pony Express?

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by Al Yellon on Oct 20, 2011 2:06 PM CDT up reply actions  

Um, it is almost done.

And, though I agree it’s been frustrating to wait, I’m glad the Cubs have taken their time on this.

Baseball is pitching, offensive production, baserunning and defense.

by daver on Oct 20, 2011 12:39 PM CDT up reply actions  

Is it?

The Chicago folks seem to think that its almost done, however the reports from Boston’s side don’t seem to agree.

by dmlichte on Oct 20, 2011 12:56 PM CDT up reply actions  

Eh, they're just being tough guys.

It feels like the deal is close.

Baseball is pitching, offensive production, baserunning and defense.

by daver on Oct 20, 2011 12:57 PM CDT up reply actions  

Craig, with all due respect,

any party you’re at is not one I’d want to be at, too.

by Not Bruce Froemming on Oct 20, 2011 12:52 PM CDT up reply actions  

Too bad.

Craig brings all the ladies.

Theo! Good job, Tommy Boy!

by shoemile on Oct 20, 2011 2:51 PM CDT up reply actions  

All the ladies being my wife and daughter

pretty sure that makes me a creep.

Then again, I could be a legless vampire puppet.

www.facebook.com/craighudak

by Craig in South Bend on Oct 20, 2011 2:58 PM CDT up reply actions  

NBF says this all the time.

“With all due respect.”

Ricky Bobby describes NBF’s philosophy on this perfectly.

"The riches of the game are in the thrills, not the money." --Ernie Banks

by dtpollitt on Oct 20, 2011 2:53 PM CDT up reply actions   2 recs

I like spaghetti.

It tastes good.

Theo! Good job, Tommy Boy!

by shoemile on Oct 20, 2011 11:34 PM CDT up reply actions  

I like it, too

But not when I’m watching baseball.

by Not Bruce Froemming on Oct 21, 2011 12:09 AM CDT up reply actions  

Not really different enough, but I guess we can add it

Because you don’t have enough different things to say to get to 10 otherwise.

Step Two: Develop an organizational plan

by Shanghai Badger on Oct 21, 2011 7:39 AM CDT up reply actions  

Theo Epstein, Jed Hoyer

Jason MacLeod, Tim Wilken, Oneri Fleita.

It’s like the JUSTICE LEAGUE OF AMERICA.

by Josh Timmers on Oct 20, 2011 12:31 PM CDT reply actions   1 recs

with TLR as recurring villain.

I'm a Cubs fan. The Jaded Bitterness comes as a Standard Feature.

by timh815 on Oct 20, 2011 12:33 PM CDT up reply actions  

OK-This made me laugh.

Dear Great Pumpkin, I am looking forward to your arrival on Halloween Night. I hope you will bring me lots of presents.

by katie casey on Oct 20, 2011 12:56 PM CDT up reply actions  

not even close

As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.

by santoswoodenlegs on Oct 20, 2011 1:12 PM CDT up reply actions  

.....

So i you can give you can take it.

by epsilon on Oct 20, 2011 1:15 PM CDT up reply actions  

yes

As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.

by santoswoodenlegs on Oct 20, 2011 1:17 PM CDT up reply actions  

ya'll still ridin' 20's?

ya’ll some oompa-loompas.

So i you can give you can take it.

by epsilon on Oct 20, 2011 1:18 PM CDT up reply actions  

Manager

Im not sure who is my top preference. But if it is not Ryne, I would love to bring down Bob Brenly.

by Lweb23 on Oct 20, 2011 12:50 PM CDT reply actions  

When we hear stuff like, according to a “source” – what is a specific example of a source?

by drodd on Oct 20, 2011 12:56 PM CDT reply actions  

An asst GM

An administrative assistant, a janitor, the janitor’s best friend’s neighbor’s 6 year old son.

by jerry morales rules on Oct 20, 2011 1:02 PM CDT up reply actions  

… ‘s classmate’s second cousin’s newspaper delivery boy’s neighbor three doors down.

Join us for complete MLB coverage at SB Nation's Baseball Nation

by Al Yellon on Oct 20, 2011 2:07 PM CDT up reply actions  

Ugh ... Looks liek the announcement won't be today

Levine just said there are still issues to resolve. Tomorrow’s presser may not be held until next week sometime.

FWIW, if they were “on the 5 yard line” at the crack of dawn today, the fact that nothing official has come out by now i think means that they have been pushed back from the 5 yard line.

by jerry morales rules on Oct 20, 2011 12:56 PM CDT reply actions  

Argh!

Free Theo, damnit! Free Theo!

Baseball is pitching, offensive production, baserunning and defense.

by daver on Oct 20, 2011 1:00 PM CDT up reply actions  

There was a delay of game penalty.

Harry Caray: Marshall is going back to LA to get cocaine for his injured foot.
Steve Stone: Harry, that’s Novocaine.

by Julio Zuleta's Voodoo on Oct 20, 2011 1:18 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions  

Giving up a prospect

who has the potential to help the team 1 out of every 5 games should not be a stumbling block for hiring a new President of Baseball Operations, with an established track record on a winning team, who will play a pivotal role in the daily operation of the team 365 days a year.

by ScottT on Oct 20, 2011 1:54 PM CDT reply actions  

This.

Especially considering that the Cubs are the team that pitching prospects go to to fade into injury riddled oblivion. I’d have no trouble parting with, say, Trey McNutt if it gets Theo here any faster.

by bluekoolaide on Oct 20, 2011 2:06 PM CDT up reply actions  

I'm happy that the rest of Theo's entourage

might not cost us (m)any prospects. I still think the Theo price will sting a bit.

I'm a Cubs fan. The Jaded Bitterness comes as a Standard Feature.

by timh815 on Oct 20, 2011 2:08 PM CDT up reply actions  

Gordon Edes

Is now tweeting that the deal is done

http://twitter.com/#!/GordonEdes/status/127100249419423745

Coming from someone in Boston, perhaps it indeed is done

by dmlichte on Oct 20, 2011 2:19 PM CDT reply actions  

The Hoyer to Cubs

deal is done, according to Edes.

Pins and needles on Theo compensation still.

I'm a Cubs fan. The Jaded Bitterness comes as a Standard Feature.

by timh815 on Oct 20, 2011 3:01 PM CDT up reply actions  

Clarification from Edes
To clarify: Hoyer as Cubs GM, Byrnes as Padres GM is done. Epstein to Chi not yet resolved per compensation. Review of medicals remains

So if this is the case, it may mean that the sides have agreed to compensation but have to their medical checks reviewed.

by dmlichte on Oct 20, 2011 3:09 PM CDT up reply actions  

Sounds like it

The deal isn’t done until the Red Sox can check the medical records of whomever they are getting. But compensation has been agreed upon.

by Josh Timmers on Oct 20, 2011 3:14 PM CDT up reply actions  

Presuming the player(s) were healthy in 2011...

… I can’t see this as being anything more than a formality.

Join us for complete MLB coverage at SB Nation's Baseball Nation

by Al Yellon on Oct 20, 2011 3:16 PM CDT up reply actions  

See NFL's

Jerome Harrison.

I'm a Cubs fan. The Jaded Bitterness comes as a Standard Feature.

by timh815 on Oct 20, 2011 3:18 PM CDT up reply actions  

Isn't that something?

“You’re being traded, take this physical.”

“Just kidding, you have a brain tumor and aren’t playing again this year.”

"We push bunt, we squeeze bunt, we hit and run, we steal home!" - Larry Cox (I think...) on the 1989 NL East Champion Chicago Cubs

by PacificCub on Oct 20, 2011 3:20 PM CDT up reply actions  

yup

thats why they check.

I'm a Cubs fan. The Jaded Bitterness comes as a Standard Feature.

by timh815 on Oct 20, 2011 3:21 PM CDT up reply actions  

Your sig line

Yes, that was Larry Cox who said that.

Step Two: Develop an organizational plan

by Shanghai Badger on Oct 20, 2011 3:47 PM CDT up reply actions  

Thanks!

I remember it from “Boys of Zimmer”, but I couldn’t remember who said it for sure. SOMEONE recorded an episode of The Simpsons over much of the tape…

"We push bunt, we squeeze bunt, we hit and run, we steal home!" - Larry Cox (I think...) on the 1989 NL East Champion Chicago Cubs

by PacificCub on Oct 20, 2011 6:52 PM CDT up reply actions  

D'oh!

Step Two: Develop an organizational plan

by Shanghai Badger on Oct 20, 2011 10:20 PM CDT up reply actions  

valid

I'm a Cubs fan. The Jaded Bitterness comes as a Standard Feature.

by timh815 on Oct 20, 2011 3:31 PM CDT up reply actions  

would it

not be to funny after all this back and forth the Cubs send some no name prospect in the deal. We all would be like WTF took so long. All of this time for that guy.

Cubs 2011 59-103

by wild bill on Oct 20, 2011 2:21 PM CDT reply actions  

I bet it's gonna be Vitters.

Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.

by elgato on Oct 20, 2011 2:32 PM CDT up reply actions  

No problemo

I'm a Cubs fan. The Jaded Bitterness comes as a Standard Feature.

by timh815 on Oct 20, 2011 2:33 PM CDT up reply actions  

OK by me, too.

Join us for complete MLB coverage at SB Nation's Baseball Nation

by Al Yellon on Oct 20, 2011 2:43 PM CDT up reply actions  

I think that too

"Hey.....Cubs win!!!" ---Harry
"Cubs win....what a lucky break!!" ---Harry

by Hammer on Oct 20, 2011 3:32 PM CDT up reply actions  

Rumor has it

that Epstein and Hoyer are both in-transit and prohibited from having Internet access or a cell phone.

Epstein is holed up in a Toledo hotel and can only watch The Departed and Fringe re-runs.

Hoyer is stuck in a Nebraska motel and only has Green Acres re-runs.

"Just shut up and play" - Matt Garza

by RiskyBusiness on Oct 20, 2011 2:42 PM CDT reply actions  

at least nobody is subjected

to “Mama’s Family”. That could scar them for life.

I'm a Cubs fan. The Jaded Bitterness comes as a Standard Feature.

by timh815 on Oct 20, 2011 2:48 PM CDT up reply actions  

I never got the humor in the show.

Harvey Korman was great on the Carol Burnett Show, though.

I'm a Cubs fan. The Jaded Bitterness comes as a Standard Feature.

by timh815 on Oct 20, 2011 2:51 PM CDT up reply actions  

Blazing Saddles...

…was his best work!

"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel

by MPH73 on Oct 20, 2011 2:58 PM CDT up reply actions  

I hope some actual facts are released soon.

This is getting boring.

"The riches of the game are in the thrills, not the money." --Ernie Banks

by dtpollitt on Oct 20, 2011 2:53 PM CDT reply actions  

Facts?

I'm a Cubs fan. The Jaded Bitterness comes as a Standard Feature.

by timh815 on Oct 20, 2011 2:56 PM CDT up reply actions  

You want some facts???
Introduction ::CANADA
Background:

A land of vast distances and rich natural resources, Canada became a self-governing dominion in 1867 while retaining ties to the British crown. Economically and technologically, the nation has developed in parallel with the US, its neighbor to the south across the World’s longest unfortified border. Canada faces the political challenges of meeting public demands for quality improvements in health care, and education, social services, and economic competitiveness, as well as responding to the particular concerns of predominantly francophone Quebec. Canada also aims to develop its diverse energy resources while maintaining its commitment to the environment.

Geography ::CANADA

Location:

Northern North America, bordering the North Atlantic Ocean on the east, North Pacific Ocean on the west, and the Arctic Ocean on the north, north of the conterminous US
Geographic coordinates:

60 00 N, 95 00 W

Map references:

North America

Area:

total: 9,984,670 sq km
country comparison to the world: 2
land: 9,093,507 sq km
water: 891,163 sq km

Area – comparative:

slightly larger than the US
Land boundaries:

total: 8,893 km
border countries: US 8,893 km (includes 2,477 km with Alaska)
note: Canada is the World’s largest country that borders only one country

Coastline:

202,080 km
Maritime claims:

territorial sea: 12 nm
contiguous zone: 24 nm
exclusive economic zone: 200 nm
continental shelf: 200 nm or to the edge of the continental margin

https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/ca.html

If the Cubs still have a chance, no matter how small, it’s still Go Cubs, damn the math and pass the KoolAid.

by eths on Oct 20, 2011 3:47 PM CDT up reply actions  

Tim Horton

was a hockey player
DUN DUN DUNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNN

by JOVE23 on Oct 20, 2011 3:56 PM CDT up reply actions  

or curling

Chronologically inept since 2060
Q: Why did Chuck Norris cross the road?
A: Ditka
Ditka's mustache can kill two stones with one bird
It is better to spend money like there's no tomorrow than to spend tonight like there's no money! - Irish toast.

by Cubbie-Tim on Oct 20, 2011 8:37 PM CDT up reply actions  

Anybody hearing anything on compensation?

This is boring.

Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.

by elgato on Oct 20, 2011 3:01 PM CDT reply actions  

Theo deal not done.

Hoyer deal is

I'm a Cubs fan. The Jaded Bitterness comes as a Standard Feature.

by timh815 on Oct 20, 2011 3:02 PM CDT up reply actions  

Edes said it's all done ...

Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.

by elgato on Oct 20, 2011 3:03 PM CDT up reply actions  

And clarified he meant

Hoyer is done.

I'm a Cubs fan. The Jaded Bitterness comes as a Standard Feature.

by timh815 on Oct 20, 2011 3:04 PM CDT up reply actions  

Oh.

Sonofa …

Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.

by elgato on Oct 20, 2011 3:04 PM CDT up reply actions  

pretty much

I'm a Cubs fan. The Jaded Bitterness comes as a Standard Feature.

by timh815 on Oct 20, 2011 3:05 PM CDT up reply actions  

Edes said than done...

Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."

by ballhawk on Oct 20, 2011 3:37 PM CDT up reply actions  

I wonder if the Hoyer deal

had to be done before the Red Sox would coome to a final agreement on the players involved. The whole…How do I know that you are not going to make Theo the GM only argument?

"All I want is food and creative love" - Rusted Root

by TheRiot Police on Oct 20, 2011 3:30 PM CDT up reply actions  

Another rumor

Some rumblings that the the Cubs are interested in Bud Black as their manager

by dmlichte on Oct 20, 2011 3:10 PM CDT reply actions  

Sure, why not?

As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.

by santoswoodenlegs on Oct 20, 2011 3:11 PM CDT up reply actions  

That would work.

Any linky?

I'm a Cubs fan. The Jaded Bitterness comes as a Standard Feature.

by timh815 on Oct 20, 2011 3:11 PM CDT up reply actions  

He sure knows how to tackle his outfielders

MILTONBRADLEY!!!!

"We push bunt, we squeeze bunt, we hit and run, we steal home!" - Larry Cox (I think...) on the 1989 NL East Champion Chicago Cubs

by PacificCub on Oct 20, 2011 3:12 PM CDT up reply actions  

Sounds like it

I'm a Cubs fan. The Jaded Bitterness comes as a Standard Feature.

by timh815 on Oct 20, 2011 3:16 PM CDT up reply actions  

The Padres

Moorad clearly wants his guy Josh Byrnes as his GM. As was said above, Hoyer hasn’t done anything for Moorad to fire him, but he likely sees this as a great opportunity to bring in the guy he really wants but wasn’t available when he hired Hoyer.

by dmlichte on Oct 20, 2011 3:26 PM CDT up reply actions  

San Diego is a much mellower town, man.

Baseball is pitching, offensive production, baserunning and defense.

by daver on Oct 20, 2011 3:42 PM CDT up reply actions  

THIS

As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.

by santoswoodenlegs on Oct 20, 2011 3:43 PM CDT up reply actions  

This

made me actually laugh out loud.

No Cubbiegoon, I am Deep Goat

by tomas21 on Oct 21, 2011 10:39 AM CDT up reply actions  

Link?

Join us for complete MLB coverage at SB Nation's Baseball Nation

by Al Yellon on Oct 20, 2011 3:17 PM CDT up reply actions  

Oy

I’m never comfortable until the game is in hand. Gholston’s suspension likely helps. I’m actually heading to Columbus for the OSU game… hopefully the third time is a charm.

by dmlichte on Oct 20, 2011 3:27 PM CDT up reply actions  

You'll be fine in Columbus. I thought Nebraska couldn't throw the ball... then I watched OSU.

I wish Gholston was playing. Now if (when?) we win, the pundits/haters can play the ‘Well, it was a nice win, but keep in mind MSU was not at full strength…’ card. Hate that card. HATE it.

On Wisconsin

by Schwa on Oct 20, 2011 3:31 PM CDT up reply actions  

Much more concerned about MSU

Was concerned about UofI until this last week. Man, the Big Ten is terrible, and while I don’t want to pat Wisconsin on the back, they’re saving the conference from quite a bit of national embarrassment.

by dmlichte on Oct 20, 2011 3:36 PM CDT up reply actions  

Whew.

I was worried you were about to mention the non-conference schedule and send me off the deep end.

by Schwa on Oct 20, 2011 3:41 PM CDT up reply actions  

Anyone surprised

Al isn’t listening to WSCR?

I'm a Cubs fan. The Jaded Bitterness comes as a Standard Feature.

by timh815 on Oct 20, 2011 3:25 PM CDT up reply actions  

Depends on if the dead hobo will signal to Garza to strike out on purpose.

Oh wait, he can’t! Cause he’s dead! GETERDONEJED!!!

Theo! Good job, Tommy Boy!

by shoemile on Oct 20, 2011 3:32 PM CDT up reply actions  

Can the dead hobo clap?

Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.

by elgato on Oct 20, 2011 3:35 PM CDT up reply actions  

No, but he can give it to you.

As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.

by santoswoodenlegs on Oct 20, 2011 3:36 PM CDT up reply actions  

Hiyo!

Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.

by elgato on Oct 20, 2011 3:36 PM CDT up reply actions  

Sandberg MGR

Black PC

???

I'm a Cubs fan. The Jaded Bitterness comes as a Standard Feature.

by timh815 on Oct 20, 2011 3:37 PM CDT up reply actions  

I want Maddux (Mike) if he can be had but Bud Black would be nice.

Nothing happens unless it's first a dream

by puckishcubsfan on Oct 20, 2011 9:36 PM CDT up reply actions  

Better than getting fired?

I’m not saying he’ll get fired or should get fired, but new GMs are weird.

--------------------------------
Just North of Wrigley Field

by jameslcrockett on Oct 21, 2011 1:07 PM CDT up reply actions  

I'm fine with just about any one BESIDES

Quade as manager, but I would prefer Sandberg for 2 reasons…

1.) I think from everything I have read about the way he handles players, teaching the fundimentals and getting the most out his a team is what this team needs…

2.) Getting to hear the Darth Vader like anguished NOOOOOOOOO!!!!! out of NBF would be priceless

Speachless...

by Endrick on Oct 20, 2011 3:16 PM CDT reply actions   1 recs

Cmon Theo

Trade for Adam Lind

I'm a Cubs fan. The Jaded Bitterness comes as a Standard Feature.

by timh815 on Oct 20, 2011 3:47 PM CDT up reply actions  

No.

Hendry has been rehired.

Theo! Good job, Tommy Boy!

by shoemile on Oct 20, 2011 3:50 PM CDT up reply actions  

One thing if Ed Lynch still had a job for 100 years after being fired why isn’t Hendry still in some job in the organization?

And is Ed Lynch still lurking anywhere? I’m still traumatized after seeing him attempt an irish jig at the convention in 1997.

Nothing happens unless it's first a dream

by puckishcubsfan on Oct 20, 2011 9:38 PM CDT up reply actions  

Despite the last 2 years he should have a much easier time getting a new job than Lynch would have.

Wherever he goes I hope the Cubs are careful trading with his new team. THe Phillies should have thought twice as to why Green was so darn eager to get that not very highly thought of young shortstop in 1982.

Nothing happens unless it's first a dream

by puckishcubsfan on Oct 20, 2011 9:45 PM CDT up reply actions  

I wouldn't worry about it.

Hendry will likely overvalue his former prospects like MacPhail did when he moved to Baltimore.

Theo! Good job, Tommy Boy!

by shoemile on Oct 20, 2011 9:52 PM CDT up reply actions  

Would love to.

Hope to be able to arrange that.

Join us for complete MLB coverage at SB Nation's Baseball Nation

by Al Yellon on Oct 20, 2011 4:16 PM CDT up reply actions  

If/when you interview Ricketts

I bet people here will be easier on him with the line of questioning.

Dear Great Pumpkin, I am looking forward to your arrival on Halloween Night. I hope you will bring me lots of presents.

by katie casey on Oct 20, 2011 4:19 PM CDT up reply actions  

Ricketts

regime has kind of been like a Soriano week. 14 straight strikeouts followed by a 3-homer game. Let’s hope Ricketts is in a hot streak.

No Cubbiegoon, I am Deep Goat

by tomas21 on Oct 21, 2011 10:43 AM CDT up reply actions  

Definitely looking forward to it...

I hope something could be arranged soon. I would love to hear what he has to say about his long-term plan and the current state of the Cubs organization.

by bazfan1234 on Oct 20, 2011 4:53 PM CDT up reply actions  

Except for the game tonight,

Al would need an overflow for this.

I'm a Cubs fan. The Jaded Bitterness comes as a Standard Feature.

by timh815 on Oct 20, 2011 4:27 PM CDT reply actions  

Friday

noonish or through the afternoon.

I'm a Cubs fan. The Jaded Bitterness comes as a Standard Feature.

by timh815 on Oct 20, 2011 4:30 PM CDT up reply actions  

I’m trying to decide whether to DVR CLTV all day just in case but I don’t think it will be til next week now.

Hopefully if its tomorrow the time will be announced before I hokey pokey to work.

Nothing happens unless it's first a dream

by puckishcubsfan on Oct 20, 2011 9:39 PM CDT up reply actions  

i like the hoyer move

if only because the guys at gas lamp ball are really angry about it

THEOOOOOOOOO

by jesus christos on Oct 20, 2011 4:31 PM CDT reply actions  

I was really bummed when I heard Hoyer got hired by the Pads.

He was my number one choice to replace Jimbo a couple years back. And now we got him AND Theo! YAAAAYYY

Theo! Good job, Tommy Boy!

by shoemile on Oct 20, 2011 4:32 PM CDT up reply actions  

and the other guy

who I can’t remember his name.

I'm a Cubs fan. The Jaded Bitterness comes as a Standard Feature.

by timh815 on Oct 20, 2011 4:34 PM CDT up reply actions  

I do enjoy Theo attempting to pilfer the Red Sox and Padres FO.

Pushes the Hendry leftovers down and/or out.

Theo! Good job, Tommy Boy!

by shoemile on Oct 20, 2011 4:40 PM CDT up reply actions  

the epstein-hoyer bromance lives on!

and my signature refuses to acknowledge that fact shakes fist

THEOOOOOOOOO

by jesus christos on Oct 20, 2011 4:37 PM CDT up reply actions  

GITERDUNNJED!!!!

Definitely has a nice ring to it.

Then again, I guess we should always give some Theo some credit, too. So maybe:

GITERDUNNJEDNTHEO!!!!

Baseball is pitching, offensive production, baserunning and defense.

by daver on Oct 20, 2011 4:43 PM CDT up reply actions  

A Jedi he is?

If the Cubs still have a chance, no matter how small, it’s still Go Cubs, damn the math and pass the KoolAid.

by eths on Oct 20, 2011 4:47 PM CDT up reply actions  

Got tired of Californy?

Dear Great Pumpkin, I am looking forward to your arrival on Halloween Night. I hope you will bring me lots of presents.

by katie casey on Oct 21, 2011 9:54 AM CDT up reply actions  

Apparently Epstein really wanted Byrnes, but was rebuffed

http://espn.go.com/chicago/mlb/story/_/id/7126311/source-chicago-cubs-expected-hire-theo-epstein-thursday

A source told ESPNBoston.com that Epstein originally asked Byrnes to join him in Chicago, but Byrnes declined. Epstein then turned to Hoyer, his longtime friend and former assistant. Hoyer went to Moorad, told him of the offer from Epstein and said he would stay if the Padres gave him a five-year extension. Moorad, though reluctant to lose Hoyer, the source said, said he would not grant him the extension and told him he was free to take the Cubs job.

by Bradsbeard on Oct 20, 2011 4:53 PM CDT up reply actions  

If I was Epstein..

WE COULD HAVE SAVED ALL THIS STRESS AND DRAMA!!

by The Deputy Mayor of Rush Street on Oct 20, 2011 5:01 PM CDT up reply actions  

Sorry, what was I saying?

If I was Epstein, I think I naturally would have approached the Padres for the guy I could promote, instead of someone who’s already a GM. Apparently the SD owner prefers his assistant.

by The Deputy Mayor of Rush Street on Oct 20, 2011 5:02 PM CDT up reply actions  

That would make sense

Maybe he was bluffing SD into letting Hoyer go, Huck Fin style.

by Bradsbeard on Oct 20, 2011 5:09 PM CDT up reply actions  

Not sure which one he really wanted

He may have just asked Byrnes first because he didn’t think Hoyer would leave.

In any case, we’ll never know. Theo won’t ever tell.

by Josh Timmers on Oct 20, 2011 5:04 PM CDT up reply actions  

who's the third guy in again?

I'm a Cubs fan. The Jaded Bitterness comes as a Standard Feature.

by timh815 on Oct 20, 2011 5:07 PM CDT up reply actions  

Jason MacLeod?

He left Boston with Jed Hoyer to go to SD. Now he’s going with Hoyer to Chicago. He had a job similar to Tim Wilken’s.

by Josh Timmers on Oct 20, 2011 5:11 PM CDT up reply actions  

That's him

thx

I'm a Cubs fan. The Jaded Bitterness comes as a Standard Feature.

by timh815 on Oct 20, 2011 5:14 PM CDT up reply actions  

Could be.

or at least going lateral.

I'm a Cubs fan. The Jaded Bitterness comes as a Standard Feature.

by timh815 on Oct 20, 2011 5:19 PM CDT up reply actions  

MacLeod

is a star at scouting and player development. He doesn’t wear a cowboy hat, or go through city streets on a horse.

“There ya go.”

I'm a Cubs fan. The Jaded Bitterness comes as a Standard Feature.

by timh815 on Oct 20, 2011 5:19 PM CDT up reply actions  

well played

I'm a Cubs fan. The Jaded Bitterness comes as a Standard Feature.

by timh815 on Oct 20, 2011 5:36 PM CDT up reply actions  

Maybe they can pay his $5.625M salary this season ...

so my beers at United Centre don’t cost $10 any more.

Just win the next game...!

by blackhawk24 on Oct 21, 2011 7:22 AM CDT up reply actions  

Compensation

Originally the Sawx wanted Castro…LoLwut?

Twitter = tpears86

by MMA42 on Oct 20, 2011 6:46 PM CDT reply actions  

Why not ask?

I’d want Theo and Hoyer to ask even if they are sure the answer would be no but maybe they can meet in the middle.

I could ask you to give me a million dollars. You wouldn’t I ssume but it doesn’t hurt to ask!

Nothing happens unless it's first a dream

by puckishcubsfan on Oct 20, 2011 9:41 PM CDT up reply actions  

I agree to a point.

But, asking for something ridiculous can also make your opponent / trade partner dig in their heels… like you can’t be taken seriously.

Asking for Castro or Garza shows no sense of the realm of reality.

"Stuff like this is why they should shut off the internet."

by Orval Overall on Dec 17, 2010 1:19 PM CST

by fsuapollo on Oct 21, 2011 11:37 AM CDT up reply actions  

Then, at 36, he was just as he prepared when he interviewed for the job as general manager of the Padres.

“He came to our first meeting with a binder full of analysis on the Padres as well as focusing on the kind of organization he would expect to build,” Padres’ CEO Jeff Moorad said. “Extremely impressive. Extremely thorough. Compelling.”

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/cubs/ct-spt-1021-hoyer-cubs-chicago—20111021,0,1004671.story?track=rss&utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+chicagosports%2FCubs+%28ChicagoSports.com+-+Chicago+Cubs%29

since when is a cubs GM supposed to know what the they are doing?

THEOOOOOOOOO

by jesus christos on Oct 20, 2011 8:32 PM CDT reply actions  

"Build" an organization?

WTF is that? I thought you were supposed to just patch up the holes.

Theo! Good job, Tommy Boy!

by shoemile on Oct 20, 2011 8:34 PM CDT up reply actions  

Better hurry it up guys,

Or good old Bud is going to come in and muff everything up:

@SI_JonHeyman

selig said on @MadDogUnleashed he might have to mediate the theo epstein trade talks. time should be up on teams soon.

by Bradsbeard on Oct 20, 2011 8:37 PM CDT reply actions  

WEEI: SELIG MIGHT ARBITRATE SOX-CUBS THEO TALKS
With the Red Sox and Cubs struggling to see eye-to-eye on a compensation agreement that would permit Sox GM Theo Epstein to become the president of baseball operations in Chicago, Major League Baseball Commissioner Bud Selig suggested that he may have to mediate the matter to achieve a resolution. The Commissioner addressed the matter on SiriusXM’s Mad Dog Radio prior to Game 2 of the World Series.

Asked if he was expecting that he would have to serve as an arbitrator between the Red Sox and Cubs regarding compensation that the Sox might receive for the departure of GM Theo Epstein, who has an agreement to become the president of baseball operations in Chicago, Selig left the door open.

“It is a possibility,” Selig told host Chris Russo. “No question, it is a possibility.”

by DrCrawdad on Oct 20, 2011 9:16 PM CDT up reply actions  

Life is beautiful

"Keep pushin' til' it's understood. And these badlands start treating us good."

by AussieCub on Oct 20, 2011 8:47 PM CDT reply actions  

Tuesday 2 oclock press conference

Tuesday 2 oclock press conference at Wrigley Field.

Why am I predicting this? I’ve mentioned every time the Cubs have big news I’m meeting an internet friend.

Meeting an internet friend for a late lunch at 2 on Tuesday.

And its a world series off day.

Nothing happens unless it's first a dream

by puckishcubsfan on Oct 20, 2011 9:32 PM CDT reply actions  

Good point

Good point

Step Two: Develop an organizational plan

by Shanghai Badger on Oct 21, 2011 7:40 AM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

Internet friends?

"Just shut up and play" - Matt Garza

by RiskyBusiness on Oct 21, 2011 12:16 AM CDT up reply actions  

INteresting

One of my best friends in my Bones group is a Boston fan so we’ve been chatting this up a lot.

Red Sox fans are not happy.

Speaking of coaches does anyone know what Mike MAddux’s contract status is in Texas? Would love to have him. Maybe if Sandberg’s the manager his friendship with Greg can come into play.

Speaking of MAdduxes has there been anything new on Greg’s daughter?

Nothing happens unless it's first a dream

by puckishcubsfan on Oct 20, 2011 9:36 PM CDT reply actions  

Mike Maddux would be nice to have

Was trying to think who a good solid infield coach to bring Castro along would be. Anyone know what Rey Sanchez is up to these days?

by Bradsbeard on Oct 20, 2011 9:39 PM CDT up reply actions  

Coaching

I wonder if now that his kids are out of high school Dunston might be interested in working with his old DP partner if Sandberg is the manager.

How about Grace for a coach? Get him out of the booth he’s awful.

Nothing happens unless it's first a dream

by puckishcubsfan on Oct 20, 2011 9:42 PM CDT up reply actions  

Back in the good ol days of Jimbo

I’d say “Larry Bowa? Too much discipline and accountability for this team!” Instead, I feel hopeful. Haven’t felt like that in a while, it’s a nice change.

by Mulhollandmania on Oct 20, 2011 10:42 PM CDT up reply actions  

Sandberg - Maddux

Are Ryne and Greg friends? From what I recall, Ryne felt that Greg put him in the middle of some unpleasant negotiations with Larry Himes. Not sure if thats been resolved or if there were any lasting issues.

by dmlichte on Oct 20, 2011 11:11 PM CDT up reply actions  

I don't think they were close but not unfriendly

Maddux often refers to Sandberg as one of his role models when he came up. I suspect that Maddux being very tight with Hendry did not endear him to Sandberg of late. In general I think there is little chance of poaching Mike Maddux as he is very close to Ryan and has one hell of a gig.

"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either

by Doggie Stalker on Oct 21, 2011 2:38 AM CDT up reply actions  

Thursday is over in 6 minutes

so my guess is Epstein is still not signed. So congrats to all the Chicago guys – you were wrong.

"Hey.....Cubs win!!!" ---Harry
"Cubs win....what a lucky break!!" ---Harry

by Hammer on Oct 20, 2011 11:54 PM CDT reply actions  

As I’ve said before, I fully expect that Epstein will become Cubs GM, President or (insert title). But the reports that it’s done, finished, etc. well it’s kind of become like that newspaper headline as these breathless reports that have turned out to be wrong. So now I’ll believe it when I see the press conference.

by DrCrawdad on Oct 21, 2011 6:28 AM CDT up reply actions  

Looks like this is all premature

and that Bud is going to have to get involved.

by Josh Timmers on Oct 21, 2011 12:03 AM CDT reply actions  

Looks like there's more to the compensation

According to Rozner, Theo wants to bring along with him, the BoSox VP of biz-affairs. This could be why the compensation has been such a big debate.

Ricketts has executed what we’ve called for here for years, that he put a baseball man in charge of the operation.

Furthermore, with Ricketts’ backing, Epstein has been trying hard to bring with him Jonathon Gilula, a Red Sox VP of business affairs for nine years and a man in the center of the Fenway Park renovations.

These are all signs that Ricketts no longer believes Kenney is the reason the planet remains on its axis, and that Ricketts has listened to the avalanche of criticism he’s received the last two years.

Now, if this is true – and I can only pray that it is – it means Ricketts did his homework, is admitting multiple mistakes and finally 100% separating the biz affairs from baseball affairs. Perhaps he did what I hoped he’d do, go have a talk with Rocky Wirtz.

It also means that not only has Ricketts re-considered his silly, bordering on insane comment this summer of not wanting a baseball guy watch his other baseball guys.

But of other importance it may be finally signalling the re-assignment, demotion or letting go of a one Mr. Crane Kenney.

http://www.dailyherald.com/article/20111020/sports/710209742/ (you’ll need a DH subscription)

Just win the next game...!

by blackhawk24 on Oct 21, 2011 7:20 AM CDT reply actions  

ESPN is saying it won't be BJax, McNutt or Szczur

we’ll see if that holds up

I always turn to the sports section first. The sports page records people's accomplishments; the front page has nothing but man's failures.
~Earl Warren

by lookingdeadred on Oct 21, 2011 8:02 AM CDT reply actions  

as compensation,

the Cubs can’t compete for Prince.

j/k

I'm a Cubs fan. The Jaded Bitterness comes as a Standard Feature.

by timh815 on Oct 21, 2011 9:25 AM CDT up reply actions  

No, TJ.

Selig knows it’s good for baseball if the Cubs are a strong team.

Besides, he grew up a Cubs fan.

Join us for complete MLB coverage at SB Nation's Baseball Nation

by Al Yellon on Oct 21, 2011 9:32 AM CDT up reply actions  

Bud doesn't own the Brewers any more.

And hasn’t since 2004.

Join us for complete MLB coverage at SB Nation's Baseball Nation

by Al Yellon on Oct 21, 2011 9:51 AM CDT up reply actions  

To the point where he'd open himself up to allegations of sabotage?

Highly, highly doubtful.

Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.

by elgato on Oct 21, 2011 11:16 AM CDT up reply actions  

No, TJ.

Selig’s family does NOT have any ownership interest in the Brewers. They sold to Mark Attanasio and a group involving other investors in 2004.

Join us for complete MLB coverage at SB Nation's Baseball Nation

by Al Yellon on Oct 21, 2011 11:18 AM CDT up reply actions  

---

No

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wendy_Selig-Prieb

"Hey.....Cubs win!!!" ---Harry
"Cubs win....what a lucky break!!" ---Harry

by Hammer on Oct 21, 2011 12:21 PM CDT up reply actions  

So, you were wrong?

Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.

by elgato on Oct 21, 2011 1:32 PM CDT up reply actions  

I was not trying to rub anything in

I was just curious myself.

"Hey.....Cubs win!!!" ---Harry
"Cubs win....what a lucky break!!" ---Harry

by Hammer on Oct 21, 2011 8:45 PM CDT up reply actions  

I'm leary of Selig getting involved too.

Afraid if there is a way to botch this, he will find it.

Dear Great Pumpkin, I am looking forward to your arrival on Halloween Night. I hope you will bring me lots of presents.

by katie casey on Oct 21, 2011 9:51 AM CDT up reply actions  

For NFL fans of the late 70's,

all Pisarcik has to do is hand the ball to Csonka.

I'm a Cubs fan. The Jaded Bitterness comes as a Standard Feature.

by timh815 on Oct 21, 2011 9:58 AM CDT up reply actions  

Oh, man.

One of the worst play calls of all time.

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by Al Yellon on Oct 21, 2011 9:59 AM CDT up reply actions  

Actually, kinda started the 'kneel down' movement.

It wasn’t standard practice then. Even in Super Bowl X, Bradshaw closes with a flop/dive. It took a mistake lie that to start the obvious.

I'm a Cubs fan. The Jaded Bitterness comes as a Standard Feature.

by timh815 on Oct 21, 2011 10:16 AM CDT up reply actions  

Don't forget

Red Sox fans are just as convinced Bud is against them as we are.

by Josh Timmers on Oct 21, 2011 11:27 AM CDT up reply actions  

Sawks fans?

Feeling entitled? Say it ain’t so.

I'm a Cubs fan. The Jaded Bitterness comes as a Standard Feature.

by timh815 on Oct 21, 2011 11:34 AM CDT up reply actions  

That's because in reality, Bud Selig is against baseball in general.

Not actively of course, he’s just that big an incompetent douche

by Nunyabidness on Oct 21, 2011 11:44 AM CDT up reply actions  

Better lay in a case or two of some extra-strength antacid then...

…and get ready for the over-the-top Bud Selig farewell tour love fest that will smother MLB next year.

If you thought Buck McCarver (and all other media ilk) were unbearable talking about the 100 years thing at the drop of a hat, that’s nothing compared to all the bud-kissing they’ll be doing next year, regardless of it being a Cubs game or not.

Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."

by ballhawk on Oct 21, 2011 12:27 PM CDT up reply actions  

LOL @ bud-kissing

Step Two: Develop an organizational plan

by Shanghai Badger on Oct 21, 2011 12:30 PM CDT up reply actions  

We need an overflow thread

on Theo. This looks like it is going into overtime.

by Josh Timmers on Oct 21, 2011 3:09 PM CDT reply actions  

why? its only taking about 30 minutes to load this page as it is now

that is exactly 1/1500000000000000000000000 of the time it has taken to officially announce Theo.

by cozmotaylor123 on Oct 21, 2011 3:41 PM CDT up reply actions  

Aren't you in charge here?

I think Al should give you thread-starting privledges.

No Cubbiegoon, I am Deep Goat

by tomas21 on Oct 21, 2011 5:30 PM CDT up reply actions  

We thought

Lucchino took them for compensation.

%SomeJokesNeverGetOld

I'm a Cubs fan. The Jaded Bitterness comes as a Standard Feature.

by timh815 on Oct 21, 2011 6:07 PM CDT up reply actions  

LOL

Of course, now we’re hearing Henry and not Lucchino is the problem.

by Josh Timmers on Oct 21, 2011 6:09 PM CDT up reply actions  

Cuz it's Friday

I'm a Cubs fan. The Jaded Bitterness comes as a Standard Feature.

by timh815 on Oct 21, 2011 6:40 PM CDT up reply actions  

Well, it's almost 4:30 in Boston.

The chances of a presser today are next to zero now.

Till Tuesday (sigh) …

Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.

by elgato on Oct 21, 2011 3:26 PM CDT reply actions  

Theo posting on BCB

Al – We need to get Theo an account here and get him to post from time to time! (Once he officialy joins the Cubs).

by ZeoBandit on Oct 21, 2011 3:58 PM CDT up reply actions  

♫ Hush, hush. Keep it down now.♪
Till Tuesday

Step Two: Develop an organizational plan

by Shanghai Badger on Oct 21, 2011 3:44 PM CDT up reply actions  

Hmmm - now you got me wondering if this song is running through Theo's mind...
Coming up close
Everything sounds like welcome home
Come home and oh, by the way
Dont you know that I could make
A dream thats barely half-awake come true
I wanted to say -
But anything I could have said
I felt somehow that you already knew

Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."

by ballhawk on Oct 21, 2011 4:05 PM CDT up reply actions  

Don't you know - Friday late afternoon press conferences are a tradition here in Chicago

Daley Sr. and Jr. used that tactic quite effectively… ;-)

Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."

by ballhawk on Oct 21, 2011 4:00 PM CDT up reply actions  

Ha. True.

Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.

by elgato on Oct 21, 2011 4:02 PM CDT up reply actions  

Yabbut

…. doesn’t seem like the kind of thing the Cubs would do.

Especially since this story has been front page news for nine days already.

Join us for complete MLB coverage at SB Nation's Baseball Nation

by Al Yellon on Oct 21, 2011 4:15 PM CDT up reply actions  

The truth at long last
@thekapman
David Kaplan
Get on board! RT @ChuckGarfien: Hearing Cubs will get Theo Epstein definitely, probably, maybe possibly soon tomorrow, yesterday, and today.

by JOVE23 on Oct 21, 2011 5:12 PM CDT reply actions  

operative word being and

I'm a Cubs fan. The Jaded Bitterness comes as a Standard Feature.

by timh815 on Oct 21, 2011 5:32 PM CDT up reply actions  

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