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The Cubs' Future Is Here In Theo Epstein

I don't believe the headline to this post is hyperbole, either.

Everything we as Cubs fans would have wanted from our ideal general manager choice, I believe we have now working for the team in Theo Epstein, the new President of Baseball Operations for the Cubs. In front of what was described to me as possibly the largest news conference gathering in the history of Wrigley Field -- well over 100 people -- Epstein was introduced by Cubs chairman Tom Ricketts.

The most important thing he said was that he had learned to be "inconspicuous at Starbucks."

No, obviously that's not the most important thing, but it generated warm laughter in the room and -- since I always say I'll admit it when I'm wrong, clearly I was wrong about Starbucks-gate; Theo was at the Starbucks which happens to be only a few blocks from my house, just a couple of weekends ago.

The real most important things that Epstein said, I believe, were that he intends to build an organization dedicated to fundamentals at all levels, that there will be a "Cubs Way" of doing things, written down in a manual for all players in the organization; further, that he believes in using both an "objective and subjective" lens to analyze players, noting that "the best organizations" use both scouting and data in choosing the best players for their teams.

Really, none of us could have wanted this to have come out any better than it has; the Cubs got the best possible man to head up baseball operations, a man who has a precise idea of what to do and how to get there, and a track record of success.

After the jump, more on what was said and what Epstein's first orders of business should be.

Star-divide

Epstein said that he has spoken to Mike Quade on the phone and would meet with him in person soon. I don't think anyone here -- myself included -- thinks that meeting will result in anything other than Quade (and his coaching staff) being replaced. Quade seems like a decent guy, but he was way over his head as a major league manager. I've made my preference clear -- I think Ryne Sandberg should be hired -- some of you may differ. Sandberg is well qualified; so are others. But I think all of us agree that soon, Epstein -- or, possibly Jed Hoyer if, as rumored, he is hired as second-in-command -- will announce a new manager and coaching staff. I suppose it's possible that Rudy Jaramillo, who has a year left on his deal, might be retained; Jaramillo hasn't had very good results, but it's possible that under new leadership, maybe he could have better luck.

He also needs to decide what to do with the contract elephants in the room, those of Alfonso Soriano and Carlos Zambrano. It's not likely the Cubs will get more than token salary relief from them, but they need to, and move on. Epstein said that he didn't think it was impossible to turn things around and contend right away even while building a strong organization from the bottom up, citing the fact that other teams (he didn't name any specific ones) have done so. I would expect him to approach this offseason with that approach.

He didn't say anything specific about the compensation issue in front of him -- how odd, to have to negotiate compensation for himself -- but hinted it would get done soon, either between him and Ben Cherington, or possibly even with mediation from the commissioner's office.

He also made some interesting comments about why it was time for him to leave Boston; he quoted former NFL coach Bill Walsh on saying that about 10 years in a job like that was enough both for the individual and the organization, that both had to move on after that much time. For Epstein and the Red Sox, then, it was right -- and also, for the Cubs after nine years under Jim Hendry. The timing has been perfect.

But the most important thing I heard from Theo Epstein this morning was this: he has an absolutely clear understanding of everything he needs to know to tackle this job. He said that in addition to growing up a Red Sox fan in Boston, he used to watch Cubs games on WGN after school -- just as many of us did. So he understands that tradition. He understands what an historic ballpark means -- and also said he knows what renovations can do in terms of getting the revenue needed to put the organization together the way it needs to be to win. He's been through the World Series drought as a Red Sox fan and executive, so he clearly understands how Cubs fans feel about that -- and also what it meant to the fans of the Red Sox when they finally did win.

Dusty Baker and Lou Piniella came to Chicago wanting to be "the guy" to bring the Cubs a World Series title. That's not the same job, of course, but by the time both men left the Cubs, beaten down, they both admitted they didn't know what they were getting into when they came to Chicago. I believe Theo Epstein does know exactly what he's getting into, and further, he has a specific plan and idea for how to bring the World Series title that we have all dreamed of here to the North Side of Chicago.

Go get 'em, Theo. And don't forget to stop at Starbucks on your way to work. I can even show you around the neighborhood. Welcome to Chicago.

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it feels so great to have hope again, cant wait for the 2012 team to start taking shape

"God watches over drunks and third baseman."- Leo Durocher

by BelieveinBlue2314 on Oct 25, 2011 1:47 PM CDT up reply actions  

YES!

Believe or Leave ~Cubswynn 9/9/2008

by slcathena on Oct 25, 2011 11:23 PM CDT up reply actions  

I'm about to lose control....

10-25-2011. Theo Epstein joins the Cubs. Now, the fun begins.

by timh815 on Oct 26, 2011 7:01 AM CDT up reply actions  

That was my post!

I think I speak for everyone here when I say, "Wait, what the hell are you talking about?"

by Ross on Oct 25, 2011 2:06 PM CDT up reply actions  

Great job. I think you summed it up.

I hope Theo says something about that “lovable loser” crap in his manifesto. Would be nice to be feared.

We'll miss you Big Boy. #10 for Hall of Fame.

by mrcubsfan on Oct 25, 2011 2:08 PM CDT up reply actions  

unfortunately, in my rush to type it, it appears I butchered the "you're" - "your" - ugh....

I think I speak for everyone here when I say, "Wait, what the hell are you talking about?"

by Ross on Oct 25, 2011 2:28 PM CDT up reply actions  

It is won of hour most common errors.

If the Cubs still have a chance, no matter how small, it’s still Go Cubs, damn the math and pass the KoolAid.

by eths on Oct 25, 2011 2:52 PM CDT up reply actions  

I've scene it happen more than once.

As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.

by santoswoodenlegs on Oct 25, 2011 2:54 PM CDT up reply actions  

its a shame, really

when an air becomes sew common place in society that know won even notices.

by bdlugz on Oct 25, 2011 3:02 PM CDT up reply actions  

Sue, you need two bee fare and knot cum down to hard on pee-pole.

If the Cubs still have a chance, no matter how small, it’s still Go Cubs, damn the math and pass the KoolAid.

by eths on Oct 25, 2011 3:08 PM CDT up reply actions  

My (English) mother is still trying to figure out, 20 or so years later, why so many people (American)...

…in Cooperstown go into bat shops to buy pets.

If the Cubs still have a chance, no matter how small, it’s still Go Cubs, damn the math and pass the KoolAid.

by eths on Oct 25, 2011 3:21 PM CDT up reply actions  

Our ewe threw with this yet?

Join us for complete MLB coverage at SB Nation's Baseball Nation

by Al Yellon on Oct 25, 2011 3:19 PM CDT up reply actions  

Its hi time four spring training two start. Whee are bee cuming a bit scilly here.

If the Cubs still have a chance, no matter how small, it’s still Go Cubs, damn the math and pass the KoolAid.

by eths on Oct 25, 2011 3:27 PM CDT up reply actions  

ewe donut reelly meen that, dew ewe?

If the Cubs still have a chance, no matter how small, it’s still Go Cubs, damn the math and pass the KoolAid.

by eths on Oct 25, 2011 3:37 PM CDT up reply actions  

Yes, eye dew.

Join us for complete MLB coverage at SB Nation's Baseball Nation

by Al Yellon on Oct 25, 2011 4:22 PM CDT up reply actions  

The Cubs have won

the World Championship in the longest championship losing streak. It’s time to go after another trophy. Loveable loser is one thing, but joining a bandwagon that says next year is the year and thinking in the 1st year, Theo= World Series, or almost every year with Theo= World Series is simply drinking a different flavor of Cubs koolaid.

People seem to be setting up a dynamic between where the Cubs can’t win (lovable losers) and the Cubs will win (Theo= win), forgetting there’s the Cubs can win, which with Theo means it’s very well possible but there need to be several concrete steps to get there. It’s like a chasm. The Cubs have tried leaping across it to get a World Series trophy and plummeted each time like Wily E. Coyote, some years getting almost across the gap (2003, 2007/8, et al). They need to build a bridge. I guess the signs are look at what the Red Sox did in 2003 and 04.

by ddoubleheader on Oct 25, 2011 8:39 PM CDT up reply actions  

It's not you're fault

Must be a bad bullpen telephone…

by ClarkFan on Oct 25, 2011 3:49 PM CDT up reply actions  

Nice!

"You win because of the quarterback. We have to get that position stabilized. We're fixated on that." -- Jerry Angelo (12.30.2008)

Jerry Angelo trades for Jay Cutler! (4.2.2009)

by SackMan on Oct 25, 2011 2:34 PM CDT up reply actions  

Great move Ricketts! I feel energized!

Ready for the future! Please no CJ. He’s not worth the $ he will want. Go Cubs Go!

by cubs_cdub on Oct 26, 2011 8:50 AM CDT up reply actions  

I was very impressed...

…with Theo today.

He came across, very calm and calculating in his approach and he certainly appears, he knows exactly what he needs to do and you get the impression, he won’t let anything get in his way.

I would look for a fairly major purge in the baseball staffers (maybe not right away, but over the coming months) which would include an intense review of the Cubs current scouts in the field, which are basically Hendry guys (or Gary Hughs guys, which is the same thing). Theo clearly values scouting, but made it clear, he values “quality scouting” and not just the “good ole boys” being tossed out there to give an opinion on how many 5 tool guys they come across.

IMO, it is going to take him, 2-3 years to start seeing a flow of talent, that is driven by his philosphies. The good news is, the Cubs can immediately capitalize on his judgment, on how to judge talent and put a balanced roster together. That would be a refreshing change.

"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel

by MPH73 on Oct 25, 2011 1:45 PM CDT reply actions  

He's not cold

but he is ruthless in his pursuit of winning. He’s willing to do whatever it takes to improve the team and he’ll do it without sentiment. I’m sure everyone here remembers the Nomar trade. Theo thought he had to go and he replaced the most popular player on the team.

He’s also not afraid to trade away a top prospect like Hanley Ramirez or Casey Kelly if it gets him someone like Josh Beckett or Adrian Gonzalez.

I didn’t get the sense that he’s going to enjoy canning Quade, but I did get the sense that he was going to do it.

by Josh Timmers on Oct 25, 2011 1:51 PM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

Agree...

…I also think, Wilken’s job may be at risk as well.

At the very least, Wilken will be instructed to change how they evaluate players and or his opinion on draft day will be much less, than it was under Hendry.

"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel

by MPH73 on Oct 25, 2011 1:54 PM CDT up reply actions  

Disagree entirely.

Wilken went safe under two conditions.

1/ a system with more holes than a sieve

and

2/ ownership that wouldn’t spend.

In 2010, Wilken was on a strict budget with Ricketts. When the shackles came off he went for quick guys (DeVoss/Easterling), slugger guys (Vogelbach/Holiman), high basement types (Zych), and a HS arm in Dillon Maples. I think McLeod will largely format the minors, but most of the early picks will hit a 3 of 4 agreement level with Theo, Jed, Jason, and Tim.

Epstein won’t fire many people. He will add some, focusing others on their strengths. Fleita will scout LA, and Wilken will still be a key piece in drafting. Unless you thought Theo was lying with his ‘now they get it’ sentiment.

I'm a Cubs fan. The Jaded Bitterness comes as a Standard Feature.

by timh815 on Oct 25, 2011 2:02 PM CDT up reply actions  

Willken...

…may not be fired, but I believe his opinion on who to draft will not be valued as highly as it was under Hendry.

Since he has been here, Wilken’s drafts haven’t exactly been stellar and time will tell what happens here with Theo onboard.

"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel

by MPH73 on Oct 25, 2011 2:05 PM CDT up reply actions  

That's not my impression at all.

Epstein specifically said he wants to use scouting AND metrics. He would likely value Wilken’s opinion as well as that of his stat people.

In the end, I think Theo would make the final call.

Join us for complete MLB coverage at SB Nation's Baseball Nation

by Al Yellon on Oct 25, 2011 2:07 PM CDT up reply actions  

I think Wilken...

…will have an opinion, it just won’t be as signficant as it was with Hendry and it may differ from Epstein’s philosophy (which is different from Hendry’s).

I would imagine, Theo may do the following; examine all the Cubs’ drafts since Wilken has been running them, and compare those picks to where the Red Sox had those same playes ranked. This will go a long way towards telling Theo how close their philosophy is.

"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel

by MPH73 on Oct 25, 2011 2:23 PM CDT up reply actions  

I don't think Theo is

‘you agree with me or you’re wrong’. They will discuss things. Theo will learn from Tim, and visa versa. We will draft guys like the 2011 class, like Szczur, like Logan Watkins, like Brett Jackson.

Not so much like Hayden Simpson, but there was a tight budget in 2010.

I'm a Cubs fan. The Jaded Bitterness comes as a Standard Feature.

by timh815 on Oct 25, 2011 2:31 PM CDT up reply actions  

I don't think Simpson was a budget pick

he was a “Shoot for the moon” pick. It was also a real “Thinking outside the box” pick. This guy had great stuff. It all disappeared after the mono.

The draft that year was crap. There wasn’t much to really spend on anyway. Taking a chance on Simpson made a lot of sense in retrospect, even if it looks like it has blown up in our face in retrospect.

by Josh Timmers on Oct 25, 2011 3:24 PM CDT up reply actions  

Theo would have gone for a hitter.

Sale or O’Conner

I'm a Cubs fan. The Jaded Bitterness comes as a Standard Feature.

by timh815 on Oct 25, 2011 3:35 PM CDT up reply actions  

Why not Zack Cox?

He seems to be doing OK for STL.

It was a shoot-the-moon style pick, and it fizzled.

I would have preferred Sale, or Vitek, or Yelich, or Lindsey, or Brown.

While the 2010 draft class looked pretty awful halfway through 2011, and it’s unlikely to amount to a whole lot, quite a few of the first-rounders taken after Simpson wound up with really solid 2011 campaigns.

MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown

by D98 on Oct 25, 2011 4:29 PM CDT up reply actions  

At the time it seemed that Sale and O'Conner

were the two that most people wanted the Cubs to take. Sale was not a Wilkin type and neither have been very impressive. O’Conner hit .157 in rookie ball this past season.

John Grabow - Who will pay you $4.8 million in 2012?

by rlpete on Oct 25, 2011 5:00 PM CDT up reply actions  

Something to remember

is not every trade or every contract he gave was a good one. The Red Sox have some pretty good flops. He’s not going to be batting 1.000 here with the Cubs, the question is whether his batting average is good or not.

One thing to be cautious of is (given the Cubs are delirious crazy for a WS trophy) is trading away talent that can play well for years to come for a seasoned player that might flop in the present all on the chance it can translate to a World Series.

by ddoubleheader on Oct 25, 2011 8:44 PM CDT up reply actions  

Or in other words...

trading what’s in the box for what’s behind door number 3.

by ddoubleheader on Oct 25, 2011 8:45 PM CDT up reply actions  

I trust Theo et al

at that more than Hendry.

I'm a Cubs fan. The Jaded Bitterness comes as a Standard Feature.

by timh815 on Oct 25, 2011 8:46 PM CDT up reply actions  

Oh he'll make mistakes but

I think Epstein will take a longer view and look to build a good consistent organization. Also when you look at his history in Boston, he had no problem promoting and playing the “kids”. The big difference is he had excellent kids to play.

I really don’t expect to see him trading young players for short-term fixes.

John Grabow - Who will pay you $4.8 million in 2012?

by rlpete on Oct 25, 2011 8:52 PM CDT up reply actions  

I think everybody

assumes Epstein will be better than Hendry. That’s a given.

by ddoubleheader on Oct 26, 2011 1:25 PM CDT up reply actions  

You're faulting Wilken for poor drafts when the money simply wasn't there until this year.

I think he will fit in just fine with Theo, but I guess only time will tell.

by bdlugz on Oct 25, 2011 3:06 PM CDT up reply actions  

I don't know...

…how much money does tampa bay spend on draft picks, or the marlins or the twins etc. etc. Were the Cubs that much lower than that many other clubs?

"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel

by MPH73 on Oct 25, 2011 4:01 PM CDT up reply actions  

Yes, they were towards the bottom of the league in spending.

I’ll see if I can find the report on numbers and post it later. It’s really quite sad.

by bdlugz on Oct 25, 2011 4:41 PM CDT up reply actions  

He'll value the opinion of people he trusts.

We don’t know where Wilken fits in there.

Theo! Good job, Tommy Boy!

by shoemile on Oct 25, 2011 2:36 PM CDT up reply actions  

I would bet...

…that Theo has already started to analyze the work of Wilken, not unlike he anlalyzes the value of a player.

"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel

by MPH73 on Oct 25, 2011 2:47 PM CDT up reply actions  

Sounded like Wilken

impressed Boston’s war room last draft. Which was his first with a 2012&Beyond budget.

I'm a Cubs fan. The Jaded Bitterness comes as a Standard Feature.

by timh815 on Oct 25, 2011 2:49 PM CDT up reply actions  

That would be correct.

"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel

by MPH73 on Oct 25, 2011 2:50 PM CDT up reply actions  

The war room was in June.

The signings were largely in August.

I'm a Cubs fan. The Jaded Bitterness comes as a Standard Feature.

by timh815 on Oct 25, 2011 2:51 PM CDT up reply actions  

But they signed them

Austin Wilson to St Louis in 2010 and Josh Bell to 2011 were pipedreams. Pittsburgh signed theirs.

I'm a Cubs fan. The Jaded Bitterness comes as a Standard Feature.

by timh815 on Oct 25, 2011 2:54 PM CDT up reply actions  

When he had no money

and 2/3 of the draft seemed to be middle infielders to cover for a lack of them, yeah.

Do you have any doubt that the next 5 drafts will resemble last year’s style? If you do, I have nothing for you. Wilken/Epstein/Hoyer/McLeod think similarly.

I can see this convo often in the future.

(1 of the 4 says): “I like Jackson from Mississippi State.”

(another): "I would if he (ran better/drew more walks/controlled his slider better/had better character).

(the other two chime in as well. the player gets revisited more times before the draft)

Guys that 3 or 4 of them like get drafted. Guys that 1 or 2 like don’t.

I'm a Cubs fan. The Jaded Bitterness comes as a Standard Feature.

by timh815 on Oct 25, 2011 2:11 PM CDT up reply actions  

Stellar?

How about changing the sentence to read “Wilken’s drafts haven’t exactly been mediocre…”. He’s done nothing in his tenure with the Cubs even remotely in the same ballpark as he did elsewhere. That’s not even debatable.

by krummy12 on Oct 25, 2011 2:25 PM CDT up reply actions  

You know what I meant...

…his production here, has not been near what he did in his previous jobs.

Which begs the next question; was Wilken pulled down by weaker people around him (compared to his other jobs)?

Either way, Epstein is going to be much more methodical as to how he determines who the Cubs draft or don’t draft. You won’t see any drafting of players from colleges the GM’s friend coaches, etc. etc..

Again, I would expect a major purge in the Cubs scouting staff and if Theo isn’t comfortable with Wilken, this new philosophy could impact him as well.

"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel

by MPH73 on Oct 25, 2011 2:31 PM CDT up reply actions  

I'm not sure that this was Wilken's fault, but this is a wonderful change
You won’t see any drafting of players from colleges the GM’s friend coaches, etc. etc..

Step Two: Develop an organizational plan

by Shanghai Badger on Oct 25, 2011 2:31 PM CDT up reply actions   2 recs

It would be horrible

if we drafted Kevin Gausman in 2012.

Not.

Friendships can be important. So is talent.

I'm a Cubs fan. The Jaded Bitterness comes as a Standard Feature.

by timh815 on Oct 25, 2011 2:33 PM CDT up reply actions  

Nor was his budget

Nor was his scouting

Nor was his player development

Nor was the system philosophy.

I'm a Cubs fan. The Jaded Bitterness comes as a Standard Feature.

by timh815 on Oct 25, 2011 2:32 PM CDT up reply actions  

I'm glad you see...

…just how much damage, the former GM had on the organization.

Many have talked about how small the Cub’s baseball staff was compared to other clubs and some have blamed that on ownership budgets. That is hogwash. With all the money the club has spent on FA’s in the last 5 years, it only would have required a fraction of those dollars to build up scouting, front office etc.. The problem was, the old GM never sold that strategy to ownership for one reason; he didn’t believe in it and he wanted to keep everything comfortable with his small group of buddies along side him and didn’t want outside talent with fresh ideas.

"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel

by MPH73 on Oct 25, 2011 2:36 PM CDT up reply actions  

He would have been electrifying out of the slot

I still wish he would have chosen football, not to avoid having him as a Cub, but he would have been one of the really good ND WRs to do well in the NFL.

www.facebook.com/craighudak

by Craig in South Bend on Oct 25, 2011 3:53 PM CDT up reply actions  

said the ND Fan.....

As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.

by santoswoodenlegs on Oct 25, 2011 3:57 PM CDT up reply actions  

Do you think he wonders about it?

Would have he been a star WR as opposed to an average MLB pitcher

The Stat Pack

by shoemile on Oct 21, 2011 10:10 PM CDT

by Madison Cub Fan on Oct 25, 2011 4:38 PM CDT up reply actions  

I don't think he worries about much.

"If I wasn't in our band I'd hate us, just to be cool." -Daniel Johns

by PurpleLineToWrigley on Oct 25, 2011 4:43 PM CDT up reply actions  

Very possibly correct.

I'm a Cubs fan. The Jaded Bitterness comes as a Standard Feature.

by timh815 on Oct 25, 2011 2:50 PM CDT up reply actions  

I hope so

If Theo believes that Wilken was the product of his circumstance, then let hiim stay. I would think that’s a pretty big assertion but I believe he stays anyway.

I concur with the purge of the scourting staff.

by krummy12 on Oct 25, 2011 2:35 PM CDT up reply actions  

Do you disagree that our scouting staff

is very small?

Trey McNutt was scouted late why? We had no scouts to scout him.

If you have people reminding the scouts we have to kepp improving on their great 2011 class, we’ll be fine.

I'm a Cubs fan. The Jaded Bitterness comes as a Standard Feature.

by timh815 on Oct 25, 2011 2:37 PM CDT up reply actions  

We lucked out on McNutt

The baseball coach at Alabama was also trying to hide him at that JC so he’d pitch for the Crimson Tide the next season.

by Josh Timmers on Oct 25, 2011 3:26 PM CDT up reply actions  

Re; Quade...

…Epstein is clearly going to approach the situation in such a way that he allows Quade to leave with a certain amount of self respect and dignity intact.

Epstein strikes me as a guy that wants badly to win but also understands the importance of treating people with class.

by bluekoolaide on Oct 25, 2011 1:55 PM CDT up reply actions  

I recognize Soriano's weaknesses but

he is a decent power guy. If we are only saving a couple of million dollars I believe he is worth more than that.

by zach katz on Oct 25, 2011 1:46 PM CDT reply actions  

Power with no defense, batting average, walks, baserunning ability, etc

Is likely worth a good bit less than the salary relief we could get.

by RynoRooter on Oct 25, 2011 2:09 PM CDT up reply actions  

my personal favorite quote of the day
This franchise is big enough where you can plan for the future while also playing for the present.

"God watches over drunks and third baseman."- Leo Durocher

by BelieveinBlue2314 on Oct 25, 2011 1:51 PM CDT reply actions   1 recs

I liked the

not tipping your hand on big club budget.

I'm a Cubs fan. The Jaded Bitterness comes as a Standard Feature.

by timh815 on Oct 25, 2011 1:54 PM CDT up reply actions  

Kenny Williams...

…is having a worse day.

"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel

by MPH73 on Oct 25, 2011 1:55 PM CDT up reply actions  

Reinsdorf should be ecstatic

Another team won’t be fighting in the first 3 rounds for middling college juniors and seniors.

I'm a Cubs fan. The Jaded Bitterness comes as a Standard Feature.

by timh815 on Oct 25, 2011 1:55 PM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

Stand strong, Jerry

somebody has to hold fast to slot bonuses.

I'm a Cubs fan. The Jaded Bitterness comes as a Standard Feature.

by timh815 on Oct 25, 2011 2:19 PM CDT up reply actions  

I don't think the Cubs success

is much concern to the White Sox. He’s much more worried about what the Tigers or Twins do.

by Josh Timmers on Oct 25, 2011 3:30 PM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

I would agree about a lot of owners

But Reinsdorf… I’m not sure that this doesn’t irk him in some way.

They have two liter bottles now? To think I spent all that time demanding a liter!

by Say Ramrod on Oct 25, 2011 4:03 PM CDT up reply actions  

With Reinsdorf...

…you are either with him or you are against him and all the people he hires portray this same culture (look at Kenny Williams). Reinsdorf loves guys with chips on their shoulders and believe me, he loves it when the Cubs suck.

"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel

by MPH73 on Oct 25, 2011 4:09 PM CDT up reply actions  

True

but the competition with the Cubs isn’t really direct. The direct planning goes against the Tigers & Twins and the interleague series. I think he’s most concerned with having a competitive White Sox team, outcompeting the Cubs is secondary (still on a list though). His fear is probably if Theo can turn the Cubs into a multi-year force with multiple postseason entries (and maybe 1 WS/WS win) whereas the White Sox might be more of the same, a bunch of also-rans that fall out in August or September.

But he can smile for as long as the Cubs are still without a World Series because the White Sox can still hoist their trophy up and theirs is the 2nd freshest trophy in Chicagoland (do the Blackhawks get some kind of placeholder that says the Stanley Cup was here since the Cup goes from team to team? Hey, since they renew it every decade or so, who gets the Cup after the 10th year?).

by ddoubleheader on Oct 25, 2011 8:51 PM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

Why do you care what Reinsdorf...

… is thinking or feeling about the Cubs signing Epstein as GM?

by DrCrawdad on Oct 25, 2011 4:19 PM CDT up reply actions  

I've wondered that myself swl

But did the Cubs managment ponder White Sox manager hiring. I’m guessing not.

The Stat Pack

by shoemile on Oct 21, 2011 10:10 PM CDT

by Madison Cub Fan on Oct 25, 2011 4:21 PM CDT up reply actions  

Damn straight...

… the Cubs would never hire someone from Sox management.

cough Larry Himes cough

by DrCrawdad on Oct 25, 2011 8:41 PM CDT up reply actions  

that's not what I meant

I was ACTUALLY agreeing with you. I realize you aren’t use to that.

 Why would the White Sox care about who Cubs are hiring . Anymore than I doubt the Cubs management ponder who the Sox hired as manager.

The Stat Pack

by shoemile on Oct 21, 2011 10:10 PM CDT

by Madison Cub Fan on Oct 25, 2011 8:50 PM CDT up reply actions  

This is a good, positive day for the Cubs.

(not directed at you) But I don’t believe that Reinsdorf, Kenny Williams and even Ozzie hate the Cubs. They might like to have the 24/7 gushing, infatuation media but the emotions some attribute to Sox brass is off base, baseless is probably more accurate. And with that I don’t think they begrudge the Cubs hire of team president, gm or manager. Heck, KW, Ozzie and Hawk all praised Lou and Dusty.

by DrCrawdad on Oct 25, 2011 8:56 PM CDT up reply actions  

Wow

You can;t even respond nicely when someone actually says you were right. Sorry I tried to agree

The Stat Pack

by shoemile on Oct 21, 2011 10:10 PM CDT

by Madison Cub Fan on Oct 25, 2011 9:12 PM CDT up reply actions  

Sorry ...

… I misunderstood your post.

by DrCrawdad on Oct 25, 2011 9:15 PM CDT up reply actions  

what is there to misunderstand about

the statement I was ACTUALLY agreeing with you?

The Stat Pack

by shoemile on Oct 21, 2011 10:10 PM CDT

by Madison Cub Fan on Oct 25, 2011 9:28 PM CDT up reply actions  

Combativeness is his M.O.

Tough to overcome, even in small doses.

He adds as much to the convo as Aaron Miles would to the Yankees.

10-25-2011. Theo Epstein joins the Cubs. Now, the fun begins.

by timh815 on Oct 25, 2011 9:30 PM CDT up reply actions  

Listened to some Dodgers games this year

Got love listening to Vin, Miles starting for them did make me giggle.

The Stat Pack

by shoemile on Oct 21, 2011 10:10 PM CDT

by Madison Cub Fan on Oct 25, 2011 9:32 PM CDT up reply actions  

Here's some advice...

… the Cubs made a good move and hopefully for my Cub fan friends it works out to be a very good move if and when Theos brings a World Championship to the Cubs.

Enjoy the moment and do so without taking gratuitous shots at the White Sox.

by DrCrawdad on Oct 25, 2011 9:38 PM CDT up reply actions  

Nobody here gives half a shit about the White Sox

"Wait, are you saying I'm a sunshine-pumping, koolaid-drinking, Soriano-loving, rainbow-rising, unicorn-riding, double-clutching, Sweet Lou-backing, Hendry-supporting, hey hey whaddya saying, Cubs are going all the waying, glass is overflowing, Rothschild is all-knowing, Cubs fan? - ballhawk

by vonde6 on Oct 25, 2011 10:58 PM CDT up reply actions  

Well there sure are a lot of posts here on the White Sox

if no one cares.

John Grabow - Who will pay you $4.8 million in 2012?

by rlpete on Oct 26, 2011 8:11 AM CDT up reply actions   2 recs

Kind of sort of

The Cubs did hire Harry Carey from the White Sox though. They got the 7th inning tradition from there too.

by ddoubleheader on Oct 25, 2011 8:53 PM CDT up reply actions  

You sure

don’t sound like a Cubs fan. You a spy or something?

by Swoosie on Oct 25, 2011 11:33 PM CDT up reply actions  

(slyly looks side to side....

pulls fedora hat down over front of face, lifts up trench coat collar and picks up speed to a brisk pace)

by ddoubleheader on Oct 26, 2011 1:22 AM CDT up reply actions  

where is the opt out button?

As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.

by santoswoodenlegs on Oct 25, 2011 4:24 PM CDT up reply actions  

It has been removed.

Clearly you don’t know what’s good for you.

Theo! Good job, Tommy Boy!

by shoemile on Oct 25, 2011 4:27 PM CDT up reply actions  

Acting like Sox fans...

… White Sox fans that is.

And if you had a shred of honesty you, or someone (Al, where are you with your, “WE Cubs fans are fixated on the Cubs…”) would admit that on this good day for the Cubs some Cubs fans boasting, using this to put down the Sox is a poor reflection on your fanbase.

Come on, if it were Sox fans using a moment of Sox news to denigrate the Cubs you guys would be all over it. Saying how this proves all your BS psycho-smear put-downs of Sox fans. Instead, here you are acting like Sox fans. Amazing but not all that unpredictable as there have been literally dozens of Sox-centric discussions here.

Enjoy the good news. Hope for the Cubs and you guys are copying the very behavior you claim to detest.

by DrCrawdad on Oct 25, 2011 7:50 PM CDT up reply actions  

I'm a Cubs fan that has little emotion for

the White Sox. I hope Reinsdorf stays on for 3 more decades, and refuses to offer amateur overslot bonuses. That would help my team, the Cubs.

I'm a Cubs fan. The Jaded Bitterness comes as a Standard Feature.

by timh815 on Oct 25, 2011 7:55 PM CDT up reply actions  

the White Sox chip on the shoulder

is some from the culture, the Southside vs. the Northside, a little ironic given a long time mayor from the Southside or thereabout, even a current Southside governor and Southside president, but hey Quebec complained about Canada and they had Quebecois in the Prime Minister’s office from 1968-2006 minus 1979-80 and some months in 1993. Some is from the response in 2005 from Chicago as a whole: “That’s nice, but we want to see the Cubs win…”.

The irony about it is popularity see-sawed back and forth between Cubs and Sox until the 1960s or so, at which point it became all Cubs so it wasn’t as if Chicagoland was always dominated by the Cubs. The settlement of the suburbs/their huge expansion in a Cubs-popular era made all but Will County and a small fringe of DuPage County painted Cubbie blue. The Sox were popular before that, then the Cubs, then the Sox, then the Cubs again. The whole ON-TV debacle didn’t win over any fans either.

And doing the same thing they accuse others of is classic hypocrisy. Look at Clinton’s impeachers. Several were engaging in extramarital affairs, some even with House pages. What it means is, besides shamelessly attacking the other side (stones and glass house parable), it might be a reflection of a self-loathing (i.e. Hitler and the Jews, he being 1/4th Jewish).

by ddoubleheader on Oct 25, 2011 9:03 PM CDT up reply actions  

...

As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.

by santoswoodenlegs on Oct 25, 2011 9:31 PM CDT up reply actions  

I dunno, I don't see the point in painting with a broad brush.

There are some Cubs fans who are obsessed or whatever, just like there are some Sox fans. There’s no data to go by, so it’s a pointless argument. Still, I’m not against each side poking fun at each other. Just how it goes.

Theo! Good job, Tommy Boy!

by shoemile on Oct 25, 2011 9:34 PM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

No data

How Jim Hendry

10-25-2011. Theo Epstein joins the Cubs. Now, the fun begins.

by timh815 on Oct 25, 2011 9:35 PM CDT up reply actions  

I will add that a lot of the "Sox fans are obsessed with Cubs fans" stuff

is due to the owner, GM, and previous manager taking shots at the Cubs while the Cubs remained silent. Certainly doesn’t help matters.

Theo! Good job, Tommy Boy!

by shoemile on Oct 25, 2011 9:48 PM CDT up reply actions  

It's not like the Sox manager

ever criticized Wrigley. What? He did? And Sox fans never backed away from the comment?

Never mind.

10-25-2011. Theo Epstein joins the Cubs. Now, the fun begins.

by timh815 on Oct 25, 2011 9:53 PM CDT up reply actions  

So it goes.

Theo! Good job, Tommy Boy!

by shoemile on Oct 25, 2011 9:55 PM CDT up reply actions  

"Cubs remained silent?" B.S.

And the owner & GM taking shots at the Cubs? When?

Ozzie had fun with Cubs fans and made some silly ass comments about Wrigley Field. Ozzie seemed to relish the Crosstown games and how easily Cub fans could get tweaked by any comment about Wrigley Field.

The Cubs PR/Media guy “took shots” at the Sox recently. And sure Jimbo Hendry may have kept quiet about the Sox but the Cubs had WGN TV, Radio and the Tribune all ready willing and able to fire away at the Sox.

One example, remember when a patch of ivy died at Wrigley? The Tribune put that on the front page of the sports section and without a shred of proof smeared Sox fans as the culprits. Ok, one more example ’05 going into the ALDS the Tribune runs an article about crime, drug use and even talked about drug fumes drifting from the projects into The Cell.

So, maybe you’re right. Cubs brass hasn’t directly dissed the Sox. No need to when you’ve got minions in radio, TV and the print media to do that for you. High road, low road.

by DrCrawdad on Oct 25, 2011 10:07 PM CDT up reply actions  

I missed the PR guy comment.

I’m sorry you were deeply aggrieved. Now get Hawk Harrelson to be a decent announcer, and maybe I’d follow your games on occasion.

10-25-2011. Theo Epstein joins the Cubs. Now, the fun begins.

by timh815 on Oct 25, 2011 10:10 PM CDT up reply actions  

Who was "deeply aggrieved"?

I wasn’t. But it is a fact that the Cubs PR dude did that.

Sorry if you were deeply aggrieved when Ozzie failed to genuflect when he approached the hallowed grounds of Wrigley Field.

by DrCrawdad on Oct 25, 2011 10:33 PM CDT up reply actions  

...
Says Reinsdorf, “Part of being a White Sox fan is you hate the Cubs.”

http://www.thedailybeast.com/newsweek/1990/07/09/acting-frisky-at-comiskey.html

I mean, that pretty much sums everything up right there. You’re welcome to your theories, I’m just pointing out what exactly was said. That’s the source of a lot of this inferiority stuff. Sorry.

Theo! Good job, Tommy Boy!

by shoemile on Oct 25, 2011 10:11 PM CDT up reply actions  

Don't. Confuse. With.

Quotes.

10-25-2011. Theo Epstein joins the Cubs. Now, the fun begins.

by timh815 on Oct 25, 2011 10:12 PM CDT up reply actions  

You took it out of context

The owner doesn’t represent the fanbase

I kept Mark Cuban out because he would spend money.

How am I doing?

10-25-2011. Theo Epstein joins the Cubs. Now, the fun begins.

by timh815 on Oct 25, 2011 10:15 PM CDT up reply actions  

Should we load his PacMan laughing

to respond? I would, but don’t care enough.

10-25-2011. Theo Epstein joins the Cubs. Now, the fun begins.

by timh815 on Oct 25, 2011 10:16 PM CDT up reply actions  

Reinsdorf describing Sox fans and that somehow proves how he, a NYC raised Brooklyn Dodgers fan hates the Cubs? Come on, you’ll need to do better than that.

Santo knew his audience too. He regularly took shots at the Sox, because he knew that played well with Cubbie fans but I do not believe that he really hated the Sox, in fact I heard him in a candid moment say how actually the Sox treated him well in his brief tenure with the Sox.

Example? Santos’ documentary he talks about how when he signed with the Cubs he didn’t know the Sox played in Chicago. (Cubbie fans lapping that up like milk…‘oh that’s right we are so much more popular than the Sox’ even though at that time the Sox were very, very popular and regularly outdrew the Cubs). And if that story of Santo’s in true, he should turn in his baseball fan credentials and/or admit to being a dumbass.

by DrCrawdad on Oct 25, 2011 10:19 PM CDT up reply actions  

describing and defining

Slightly different

10-25-2011. Theo Epstein joins the Cubs. Now, the fun begins.

by timh815 on Oct 25, 2011 10:20 PM CDT up reply actions  

Santo's dead, so he can't turn in anything.

And your OWNER claimed part of the IDENTITY of White Sox fans is hating the Cubs. Sorry DrCrawdad, you lost this battle big time.

Theo! Good job, Tommy Boy!

by shoemile on Oct 25, 2011 10:21 PM CDT up reply actions  

The contention was...

That Reinsdorf takes shots at the Cubs. Still waiting for the examples.

by DrCrawdad on Oct 25, 2011 10:23 PM CDT up reply actions  

Hahahaha

“We hate the Cubs” isn’t taking a shot? Got ’em!

Theo! Good job, Tommy Boy!

by shoemile on Oct 25, 2011 10:25 PM CDT up reply actions  

When did Reinsdorf say...

… “we hate the Cubs?” It’s fun, twisting quotes.

Reinsdorf does not hate the Cubs. And you have no proof that he does. Him saying that he thinks his fan base does, does not implicate him. As a New Yorker, Reinsdorf does not have that same type of feeling towards the Cubs as someone raised here.

You know and I know that he was talking about Sox fans, folks raised here in Chicago (and the same could be rightfully be said about Cubs fans hating on the Sox).

Find me a quote of Reinsdorf saying that he hates the Cubs and I’ll leave and not post here again.

by DrCrawdad on Oct 25, 2011 10:31 PM CDT up reply actions  

LOL

He’s a Sox fan! He owns the team!

Theo! Good job, Tommy Boy!

by shoemile on Oct 25, 2011 10:32 PM CDT up reply actions  

I'll wait for a real quote...

… one where Reinsdorf clearly says that he, he himself hates the Cubs.

Oh and I’m still waiting for all of those examples of Reinsdorf dissing the Cubs.

by DrCrawdad on Oct 25, 2011 10:35 PM CDT up reply actions  

Hahahaha

It’s right there! You’re really gonna try and twist this? Sorry man, I know you love calling people out and throwing old quotes back in their face, but when I did the same thing you can’t handle it. It’s hysterical.

Theo! Good job, Tommy Boy!

by shoemile on Oct 25, 2011 10:37 PM CDT up reply actions  

Ok

So if tomorrow Theo Epstein said “Cubs fans hate the Cardinals” would you understand him to meant that now he also hates the Cardinals?

by DrCrawdad on Oct 25, 2011 10:39 PM CDT up reply actions  

Sure.

Theo! Good job, Tommy Boy!

by shoemile on Oct 25, 2011 10:41 PM CDT up reply actions  

I'd be a tad confused as to how he jumped to that conclusion so quickly.

Reinsdorf had owned the team for nine years when he said that.

Theo! Good job, Tommy Boy!

by shoemile on Oct 25, 2011 10:46 PM CDT up reply actions  

I think a bunch of owners

curse many owners behind closed doors. Some, they are tight with. Some, they detest. Like in any work group.

10-25-2011. Theo Epstein joins the Cubs. Now, the fun begins.

by timh815 on Oct 25, 2011 10:46 PM CDT up reply actions  

if he includes said hatred

as part and parcel of being a Cubs fan, then yeah.

10-25-2011. Theo Epstein joins the Cubs. Now, the fun begins.

by timh815 on Oct 25, 2011 10:42 PM CDT up reply actions  

And really, let's get back to the original point.

Reinsdorf saying things like this is a source of all this “inferiority complex” stuff. It doesn’t help matters.

Theo! Good job, Tommy Boy!

by shoemile on Oct 25, 2011 10:44 PM CDT up reply actions  

I'm done here.

Email those examples of Reinsdorf taking swipes at the Cub.

by DrCrawdad on Oct 25, 2011 10:49 PM CDT up reply actions  

Why?

I posted it here instead.

Theo! Good job, Tommy Boy!

by shoemile on Oct 25, 2011 10:51 PM CDT up reply actions  

"Im done here"

You’re a big fan of linking past comments. Should we all save this link??

"Hey.....Cubs win!!!" ---Harry
"Cubs win....what a lucky break!!" ---Harry

by Hammer on Oct 25, 2011 11:11 PM CDT up reply actions  

And I'll just say this.

If you wanna disagree on what’s a swipe and what’s not, then I guess that’s what we’ll do. Feel free to replace it with “making statements”.

My point was that the claims of inferiority complex are born from these “statements.” You want to say the same thing can be said for Cubs fans? Sorry, no. Tom Ricketts isn’t claiming anything like this. Only Jerry Reinsdorf is. That’s a lot better argument than “well, I saw some anonymous guy on BCB diss the Sox! They’re obsessed too!”

As I said, all Sox fans don’t hate the Cubs. It’s just something Reinsdorf unfortunately said. I’m sure he doesn’t really “hate” the Cubs. But that’s a statement he made, and it just throws gas onto a needless fire.

Theo! Good job, Tommy Boy!

by shoemile on Oct 25, 2011 11:33 PM CDT up reply actions  

You really have nothing better to do than this?

I mean, my God, what a waste of energy.

Once in a while, you come here to talk baseball and make cogent points. Most of the time, you are either here to troll and then pretend to be affronted when people respond, or you police the site looking for anything White Sox.

If that’s what floats your boat, have at it. But it seems pretty goofy to me.

Step Two: Develop an organizational plan

by Shanghai Badger on Oct 25, 2011 10:44 PM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

I'll close ...

… with what I’ve said before.

Today is a good day for the Cubs. Enjoy it but do it with the gratuitous swipes at the Sox.

by DrCrawdad on Oct 25, 2011 10:48 PM CDT up reply actions  

I love Reinsdorf as an owner

I hope he stays around for 3 more decades. I hope he keeps his signing procedures, and passes them on to his successor,

10-25-2011. Theo Epstein joins the Cubs. Now, the fun begins.

by timh815 on Oct 25, 2011 10:51 PM CDT up reply actions  

I love him as Sox owner.

I mean that sincerely. I also love current Astros ownership.

10-25-2011. Theo Epstein joins the Cubs. Now, the fun begins.

by timh815 on Oct 25, 2011 10:54 PM CDT up reply actions  

And "Gratuitous Swipes"

Great Name For a Rock Band

or a Toilet Tissue slogan.

10-25-2011. Theo Epstein joins the Cubs. Now, the fun begins.

by timh815 on Oct 25, 2011 10:56 PM CDT up reply actions  

Crawdad

I don’t know, I read all of your comments at work last night. The job I do allows me to read the site but for some reason I can’t post.
 You just come off as a smug White Sox fan. Your general attitude reeks of “I am better than all of you, and I will leave it at that” Hell reading your Bio you can tell that.
 Enjoy the White Sox, and we will enjoy the Cubs. This about Theo and the Cubs, not YOU and the White Sox.

by Grockcubs on Oct 26, 2011 7:32 AM CDT up reply actions  

Id bet if Theo said

“Cubs fans hate the Cardinals”

there wouldn’t be a Cards fan in here crying about it.

"Hey.....Cubs win!!!" ---Harry
"Cubs win....what a lucky break!!" ---Harry

by Hammer on Oct 25, 2011 10:47 PM CDT up reply actions  

damn straight

10-25-2011. Theo Epstein joins the Cubs. Now, the fun begins.

by timh815 on Oct 25, 2011 10:47 PM CDT up reply actions  

They'd go to VEB

and criticize us there.

10-25-2011. Theo Epstein joins the Cubs. Now, the fun begins.

by timh815 on Oct 25, 2011 10:48 PM CDT up reply actions  

And if he said "Cubs fans hate the White Sox"

DrC would just brush it off as no biggie.

Theo! Good job, Tommy Boy!

by shoemile on Oct 25, 2011 10:48 PM CDT up reply actions  

exactly

10-25-2011. Theo Epstein joins the Cubs. Now, the fun begins.

by timh815 on Oct 25, 2011 10:52 PM CDT up reply actions  

A convo between BLou and Crawdad

would be amusing.

10-25-2011. Theo Epstein joins the Cubs. Now, the fun begins.

by timh815 on Oct 25, 2011 10:53 PM CDT up reply actions  

"Part of being a White Sox fan

is you hate the Cubs." Hence, by Reinsdorf’s admission, if he is a fan of his team, he hates the Cubs.

Maybe Crawdad is questioning if Reinsdorf likes his team.

10-25-2011. Theo Epstein joins the Cubs. Now, the fun begins.

by timh815 on Oct 25, 2011 10:34 PM CDT up reply actions  

--
Says Reinsdorf, "Part of being a White Sox fan is you hate the Cubs."

"Hey.....Cubs win!!!" ---Harry
"Cubs win....what a lucky break!!" ---Harry

by Hammer on Oct 25, 2011 10:39 PM CDT up reply actions  

Without reading -

I am guessing many intelligent words not making me think Reinsdorf never took a shot.

"Hey.....Cubs win!!!" ---Harry
"Cubs win....what a lucky break!!" ---Harry

by Hammer on Oct 25, 2011 10:37 PM CDT up reply actions  

Ok, fine...

the substitute in for the Hitler line- Sen. Larry “I have a wide stance” Craig", who was one of the most vocally anti-gay senators in DC at the time and yet, in the very least, he’s bisexual and cruises for random sexual encounters in airport and train station bathrooms. Or Sen. Vitter, espouses family values, commonly visited prostitutes and had some weird fetishes.

by ddoubleheader on Oct 26, 2011 1:29 AM CDT up reply actions  

baseball blog man....

baseball…

So i you can give you can take it.

by epsilon on Oct 26, 2011 8:56 AM CDT up reply actions  

Keep the politics out of this site.

Thank you.

Join us for complete MLB coverage at SB Nation's Baseball Nation

by Al Yellon on Oct 26, 2011 9:07 AM CDT up reply actions  

my other half

his gramma married a solider after WWII and came to US.

The Stat Pack

by shoemile on Oct 21, 2011 10:10 PM CDT

by Madison Cub Fan on Oct 26, 2011 8:58 AM CDT up reply actions  

wish I could rec on mobile

This deserves to be green as does the post above. Maybe they are. If so, good for you BCB.

by Emelie on Oct 26, 2011 10:25 AM CDT via iPhone app up reply actions   1 recs

For the first time, I believe, I have rec'd one of TJ11's posts.

 
As someone whose parents grew up in cities (London, Hannover and Magdeburg) which were badly bombed during the war, whose father was almost killed as a 17 year old on the eastern front, and as someone who now lives just 30 minutes from Dachau, I find the glib use of Hitler in this forum disgusting, distressing, childish and extremely stupid.
 

If the Cubs still have a chance, no matter how small, it’s still Go Cubs, damn the math and pass the KoolAid.

by eths on Oct 26, 2011 9:08 AM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

Funny thing...

… I didn’t listen to sports radio after coming into work today and was buried with work. Then round 4PM I surfed over here to read Al’s commentary on the Epstein press conference and see what was being said about it. Half way in or so and I see the put-downs of the Sox. Good times for the Cubs, put-down the Sox, revel in the (seeming) misery of the Sox while everything is wonderful in Cubbieland today.

Cubs fans inability to enjoy a good thing without taking pleasure in the failures of another…Well played Cubbie fans!

by DrCrawdad on Oct 25, 2011 8:47 PM CDT up reply actions  

Most Cubs fans don't give a

(word that would get me banned) about the ChiSox.. Outliers exist. Your results will vary.

I'm a Cubs fan. The Jaded Bitterness comes as a Standard Feature.

by timh815 on Oct 25, 2011 8:56 PM CDT up reply actions  

Cubs fans do...

in a negative way. The Cardinals are one type of opponent for the Cubs, the White Sox are another type. It’s like the Bears’ hate for the Packers, only split into two opponents.

by ddoubleheader on Oct 25, 2011 9:22 PM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

Obviously.

I have friends who are Indians fans, Tigers fans, and a Twins fan. I prefer their teams to win than the White Sox, because I value their happiness.

ChiSox fans? Not so much. Can’t get over my apathy for their organization. So while I’d like to see them lose 100 games a year, I don;t hate them. Don;t care.

10-25-2011. Theo Epstein joins the Cubs. Now, the fun begins.

by timh815 on Oct 25, 2011 9:38 PM CDT up reply actions  

If you don't care...

… why would you “like to see (the Sox) lose 100 games a year”?

Here’s an example, I don’t care about soccer and that’s it, I don’t care about soccer. That’s it. I don’t post comments in soccer discussion groups, don’t talk about soccer with friends and family.

Seems to me that you and many other Cub fans are dishonest, you claim you don’t care (don’t pay attention, “fixated on the Cubs”, blah, blah, blah) but say something that disproves that claim.

Hey it’s fine if you “don’t care about the Sox” just live up to that claim and don’t take offense when your pretense is exposed.

by DrCrawdad on Oct 25, 2011 9:59 PM CDT up reply actions  

I don't care about the Angels.

Whether they win or lose is of no importance to me. Still, I know a fair amount of their players, who their manager is, etc. Just part of being a baseball fan.

Theo! Good job, Tommy Boy!

by shoemile on Oct 25, 2011 10:02 PM CDT up reply actions  

Because I want my brothers Indians to sweep them

I want my cousins’ Tigers to sweep them.

I want my friend’s Twins to sweep them.

I want the Cubs to sweep them.

When they play the Angels or Astros, don’t care.

I feel the same about the Astros, Angels, Royals, Dodgers, Phillies, and about 22 other teams.

10-25-2011. Theo Epstein joins the Cubs. Now, the fun begins.

by timh815 on Oct 25, 2011 10:07 PM CDT up reply actions  

all I saw was something about

a cousin’s friend’s roomate’s brother’s monkey’s uncle’s team. Go Expos!…?

by ddoubleheader on Oct 26, 2011 1:32 AM CDT up reply actions  

White Sox.

I used to hate the White Sox. With a passion.

I won’t say I root for the White Sox but I only root against them if they are playing the Cubs.

And I was genuinely happy for my Sox fan friends in 2005.

And I have done some charity stuff with Konerko and Buerhle. Love them to pieces. Paul’s lifelong ambition is to turn me.

Nothing happens unless it's first a dream

by puckishcubsfan on Oct 26, 2011 6:13 AM CDT up reply actions  

My bet??

Is all the negative drama recently surrounding the Sox. Now the Cubs, who play in the same town, are making a very positive move.

"Hey.....Cubs win!!!" ---Harry
"Cubs win....what a lucky break!!" ---Harry

by Hammer on Oct 25, 2011 4:25 PM CDT up reply actions  

I know I’ll take the 7 championships Reinsdorf has had as an owner in Chicago. Actually 8 since I believe he has an interest in the Blackhawks.

A lot of the anti Reinsdorf sentiment is because of all the underhanded things done by Phil Jackson and Michael Jordan and to a lesser extent Scottie Pippen. Jackson who conveniently forgot it was the Jerrys who hired him first as an assistant with the Bulls when he couldn’t get arrested in the NBA and was languishing in obscurity coaching in the CBA and Jordan who yes was here when the Jerrys took over but he has 6 rings because of the moves they did. Remember 2 completely different teams won groups of 3 titles with the Bulls.

People who think for themselves realize that the Jerrys deserve a lot more credit for the Bulls than the idiots who were dazzled by Jordan and Jackson do.

It’s just too bad that the greatest coach and greatest player in Chicago history maybe 2 greatest in sports history were such pieces of work. Not necessarily bad guys but not good guys either.

Nothing happens unless it's first a dream

by puckishcubsfan on Oct 26, 2011 5:58 AM CDT up reply actions  

It's posts like this that make it fun to come over here and respond whenever the Sox are mentioned.

it just makes me weak in the knees the way gomez neither fixed or removed his crooked ass helmet after that puntoslide. -Trooper on Oct 5, 2011

by South Side Expat on Oct 26, 2011 12:12 PM CDT up reply actions  

Thus, proving TJ's point.

Join us for complete MLB coverage at SB Nation's Baseball Nation

by Al Yellon on Oct 26, 2011 12:29 PM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

Curious...

… you’ve told me that Cubs fans are “fixated” on the Cubs and how Cubs fans are to unlike White Sox fans – how in Cubbie good times Cubbie fans don’t rub things in the face of Sox fans and how you guys don’t give the Sox a second of thought.

So, after your smug put-down what do you say about all this Sox fan like behavior?

Good day for the Cubs yet so many here couldn’t go on without bashing the Sox.

BTW how many Sox fans post here at BCB anyway?

by DrCrawdad on Oct 26, 2011 12:34 PM CDT up reply actions  

So let's see.

I respond to something about the Sox that one of your posters puts up first, and thus I’m more concerned about the Cubs that the other way around? It doesn’t work like that.

it just makes me weak in the knees the way gomez neither fixed or removed his crooked ass helmet after that puntoslide. -Trooper on Oct 5, 2011

by South Side Expat on Oct 26, 2011 12:35 PM CDT up reply actions  

You're continuing the narrative.

If you wanted to prove your point, you’d just stop.

Join us for complete MLB coverage at SB Nation's Baseball Nation

by Al Yellon on Oct 26, 2011 12:48 PM CDT up reply actions  

This happens all the time....It s amusing.....I go long periods of time without even reading stories about the Sox beyond what I see on Baseball Tonight.

But Sox fans are so quick to jump on anything….Its really bad on newspaper sites….And they have such limited knowledge on top of it…

Many Sox fans are easy to take apart because I know more about their team than they do.

by TJ11 on Oct 26, 2011 1:00 PM CDT up reply actions  

Jesus Al, are you really gonna say that to me after

you again respond to me in the way you did? The sheer number of people in this thread responding to Crawdad, ending up with and going beyond when the thread was Godwin’d says enough.

it just makes me weak in the knees the way gomez neither fixed or removed his crooked ass helmet after that puntoslide. -Trooper on Oct 5, 2011

by South Side Expat on Oct 26, 2011 1:12 PM CDT up reply actions  

Who started the Sox discussion here?

Al and TJ11, instead of chastising their Cubbie brethren for bashing the Sox on this big day for the Cubs, they take the weak cowardly route of bashing the 2 Sox fans who responded to this tangent.

by DrCrawdad on Oct 26, 2011 1:17 PM CDT up reply actions  

All that was said before you made an ass of yourself was
Why do I get the idea that Jerry Reinsdorf is suddenly having a very bad day?

It wasn’t a “swipe” at the White Sox… no one was “bashing” the White Sox. No one was even really going to go into depth caring about that post until you two came here to troll the forum.

I’m assuming you’re older than a teenager, and if so, I strongly suggest you start to act your age.

by bdlugz on Oct 26, 2011 1:21 PM CDT up reply actions  

In fact... within the 10 posts before you started here...

There were multiple posts disputing the fact that Reinsdorf or the White Sox even cared.

We can police ourselves, you can go home and not worry about the safety of the White Sox name on Bleed Cubbie Blue…

by bdlugz on Oct 26, 2011 1:24 PM CDT up reply actions  

Enjoy the great day for the Cubs.

And do it without bashing the Sox.

And as far as policing the activities of others, Al and other Cubs fans routinely do just that. Al attended White Sox post-season games in both ‘00 and ’05, scanning the 40,000+ for any anti-Cubs type of stuff. When they found one or two they couldn’t wait to post messages, blogs, about how the actions of those one or two were representative of all Sox fans.

Again, good day for the Cubs. Enjoy it and don’t worry about the Sox.

by DrCrawdad on Oct 26, 2011 1:29 PM CDT up reply actions  

one more thing...

… can you point to any examples of a single Cubs fan who “policed” the Sox swipes here? There is one, but it was well after I posted. Even Al, for all his comments about how Cubs fans are better than Sox fans … had nothing to say about the Sox swipes here on the day of the Cubs big announcement.

“it’s it ironic…”

by DrCrawdad on Oct 26, 2011 1:31 PM CDT up reply actions  

How about within a couple posts of the string you jumped on
I don’t think the Cubs success
is much concern to the White Sox. He’s much more worried about what the Tigers or Twins do.

Now, can you do me a favor and find where anyone actually took a swipe at the white sox? I’m looking for an attack on the White Sox that would warrant you coming here and having to defend them. Seriously. I’ll wait.

by bdlugz on Oct 26, 2011 1:37 PM CDT up reply actions  

Hey Dr-

There is one thing you should do while posting here. Don’t sink to the level of some of the others and go with attacks such as calling them weak and cowardly.

it just makes me weak in the knees the way gomez neither fixed or removed his crooked ass helmet after that puntoslide. -Trooper on Oct 5, 2011

by South Side Expat on Oct 26, 2011 1:21 PM CDT up reply actions  

You're right...

…I regret using those terms. I perhaps should have said, “easy path.”

Thanks for pointing this out. Sorry Al and TJ11.

by DrCrawdad on Oct 26, 2011 1:26 PM CDT up reply actions  

I'm done with this thread.

Let’s move on.

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by Al Yellon on Oct 26, 2011 2:35 PM CDT up reply actions  

"I can even show you around the neighborhood."

I think your buddy Ronnie Woo Woo will do that instead

by Rey Sanchez on Oct 25, 2011 1:53 PM CDT reply actions  

Ugh.

Theo needs to avoid him like the plague. He was standing outside Wrigley the entire time. Looked kind of forlorn in the rain.

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by Al Yellon on Oct 25, 2011 2:07 PM CDT up reply actions  

Not really

Step Two: Develop an organizational plan

by Shanghai Badger on Oct 25, 2011 2:13 PM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

HWSNBN has it coming

I daresay you’d agree if you ever had the misfortune of hearing his schtick all game long and ruining an otherwise enjoyable afternoon at Hohokam. Good thing I wasn’t sitting on the berm because I would have decked him if he came near me.

by EalyEagle on Oct 25, 2011 2:58 PM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

does he make the trip out to Arizona?

how does he afford that?

So i you can give you can take it.

by epsilon on Oct 25, 2011 4:10 PM CDT up reply actions  

he doesn't afford it...

someone stupid buys him a plane/train/bus ticket. There are LOTS of really stupid people.

As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.

by santoswoodenlegs on Oct 25, 2011 4:11 PM CDT up reply actions   2 recs

I would imagine the purchaser stays home in his newly quiet Chicago neighborhood.

I think I speak for everyone here when I say, "Wait, what the hell are you talking about?"

by Ross on Oct 25, 2011 4:20 PM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

I’ve told my horror story often about being on the plane back from Ryno’s HOF induction with him. I wanted to be strapped to the wing.

Nothing happens unless it's first a dream

by puckishcubsfan on Oct 26, 2011 6:01 AM CDT up reply actions  

If Al constantly criticized the guy for his schtick, it'd be one thing.

But it’s certainly warranted to bash a guy who Al says has sexually harassed folks.

Theo! Good job, Tommy Boy!

by shoemile on Oct 25, 2011 3:00 PM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

Woo Woo is a true POS

Anyone who defends him is clueless.

"They sell every ticket to every game, win or lose!" - Tom Ricketts

by bluemagic9 on Oct 25, 2011 4:22 PM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

Not at all

Ronnie Woo Woo needs to be removed from Cub Fandom. The Ricketts family should have done everything they could have to make sure he was as far from Wrigley as possible today. He’s a clown who does not represent cub fandom well and he needs to go away.

by dmlichte on Oct 25, 2011 8:48 PM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

Never considered Ricketts giving him a permanent ban

I think the problem there is that about 98% of the fans love him because they can have a dumb moment with him at the game and talk about it.

"Hey.....Cubs win!!!" ---Harry
"Cubs win....what a lucky break!!" ---Harry

by Hammer on Oct 25, 2011 9:10 PM CDT up reply actions  

I thought I saw

a pic on twitter of Theo unfortunately running into the dude.

by Swoosie on Oct 25, 2011 2:39 PM CDT up reply actions  

"Unfortunately" is correct.

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by Al Yellon on Oct 25, 2011 3:35 PM CDT up reply actions  

Like they say, sh*t happens

If the Cubs still have a chance, no matter how small, it’s still Go Cubs, damn the math and pass the KoolAid.

by eths on Oct 25, 2011 3:38 PM CDT up reply actions  

Gross.

"They sell every ticket to every game, win or lose!" - Tom Ricketts

by bluemagic9 on Oct 26, 2011 12:19 AM CDT up reply actions  

Yeah totally.

That guy’s shirt on the left. And unseen woman on the right’s choice in sandal just does not go with that tiny sliver of attire that can be seen.

by ddoubleheader on Oct 26, 2011 1:34 AM CDT up reply actions  

and what is he clutching in his left hand?

At first I thought it was an empty McRib or KFC box, but upon further review…

…it would appear he has a death grip on some baseball book – appears to be paperback. Looks like an old-time player on the cover (short-billed cap).

I smell a contest…. who can name that book?

Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."

by ballhawk on Oct 26, 2011 10:22 AM CDT up reply actions  

Contest?

No need for a contest. I recognize the cover of that book. It’s “Crazy ’08”. Which, BTW, is well worth reading if you haven’t.

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by Al Yellon on Oct 26, 2011 10:42 AM CDT up reply actions  

Theo has the look of “I have to be polite it’s not nice to punch someones face in” on him.

Been to many occasions with famous people and have run some events. That’s the look Theo has.

Nothing happens unless it's first a dream

by puckishcubsfan on Oct 26, 2011 6:02 AM CDT up reply actions  

At least he wasn’t in the ballpark.

Al as you know due to my health issues this year I haven’t been to Wrigley as much as I used to.

IS it true Mr. Woo Woo wasn’t around as much this season?

Nothing happens unless it's first a dream

by puckishcubsfan on Oct 26, 2011 6:00 AM CDT up reply actions  

that is your best bet

He is an attention whore but not dumb enough to know that some people cannot stand him.

"Hey.....Cubs win!!!" ---Harry
"Cubs win....what a lucky break!!" ---Harry

by Hammer on Oct 25, 2011 9:11 PM CDT up reply actions  

Honestly this is the most excited I've been with a organizational move...

…since the Trib brought Dallas Green on board in late ‘81. Right now there’s that same since of hope and excitement in the air.

Suddenly the pain of last season is starting to fade away.

by bluekoolaide on Oct 25, 2011 2:00 PM CDT reply actions  

Unfortunately

The same barren minor league system that Green inherited is in place when Epstein takes his position as driver of the bus. And no, marginal roster fodder that litters this current organization is not considered diffference-making talent.

by krummy12 on Oct 25, 2011 2:26 PM CDT up reply actions  

Not even close.

While the Cubs current farm system isn’t great, it is FAR better than the completely empty system the Cubs had in 1981. There is no comparison.

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by Al Yellon on Oct 25, 2011 2:29 PM CDT up reply actions  

Respectfully disagree

The Cubs farm system is bottom third any way you look at it. Once you get down that far you’re nitpicking between the bottom 10. Same as it was in 1981.

by krummy12 on Oct 25, 2011 2:33 PM CDT up reply actions  

We disagree.

I'm a Cubs fan. The Jaded Bitterness comes as a Standard Feature.

by timh815 on Oct 25, 2011 2:34 PM CDT up reply actions  

Look

I hope I’m wrong. I hope I’m dead wrong. But I’ve seen enough baseball at every single level imaginable and I’m pretty familiar with what is in this current system, save the guys from 2011. This organization does not currently have enough difference-making minor league talent to remedy the huge holes in the big club in the next few years. Sure, some guys will jump up and some guys will regress but there just aren’t enough guys in the pipeline where you can absorb down years from guys like say a McNutt had this year and still count on solid to above-average contributors that will give the club the chance to build something that is annually competititve.

The foregoing obviously is drafted without any consideration given to spending at the big league level like the large market club they are.

by krummy12 on Oct 25, 2011 2:39 PM CDT up reply actions  

2011 is the standard going forward.

Everything else before was a kowtow to the antiquated ‘horse-and-buggy sydtem’ we just overthrew.

I'm a Cubs fan. The Jaded Bitterness comes as a Standard Feature.

by timh815 on Oct 25, 2011 2:41 PM CDT up reply actions  

Correct.

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by Al Yellon on Oct 25, 2011 2:41 PM CDT up reply actions  

We're also coming off of what is supposedly a terrific draft

I’m not saying that we’re that much better than in ’81 but I do think that Theo has more building blocks than Green was given when he took over.

And, even if our system really IS that bad, I’m not expecting miracles. Now that I’m convinced that we’re on the right track, I’m willing to be patient (esp. if that means not having to watch the likes of Zambrano, Soriano, etc.. anymore).

by bluekoolaide on Oct 25, 2011 2:41 PM CDT up reply actions  

Which is cool

I’m not sure it’s going to play as well with the fanbase that is tired of waiting though. I guess what I’m really trying to say is that this club is nowhere near competing right now and I woudn’t be surprised if it took another five years to make it legitimate contenders again. I’m not delusional enough to think it couldn’t happen sooner than that…but the only way it will is if the same money tree is shaken but perhaps in a more prudent fashion. The minor league system is years off from paying dividends, that’s for sure.

by krummy12 on Oct 25, 2011 2:45 PM CDT up reply actions  

4 years, and

we may be as good as the Sawks.

But we should represent a good team in 2011. Represent is different from ‘be’.

I'm a Cubs fan. The Jaded Bitterness comes as a Standard Feature.

by timh815 on Oct 25, 2011 2:46 PM CDT up reply actions  

I don't disagree with you krummy...and...

I might be more the exception when it comes to being patient but, as I’ve been saying, I also think it’s going to take more than a year or two to turn this thing around.

I’m not looking for miracle. It’s enough for me that we FINALLY seem to be moving in the right direction.

by bluekoolaide on Oct 25, 2011 2:48 PM CDT up reply actions  

Well

I’m not trying to throw the wet blanket here. Everything about this current organization is so negative that it’s hard not to use the voice of reason. This isn’t going to be a quick turnaround and if the hiring of Epstein is really the ray of sunshine everyone seems to think….I guess more than anything it shows just how far the climb up is going to be.

Four years sounds a bit on the quick side if you ask me. This major league club is going to have a complete overhaul in some fashion and I just don’t see enough of it coming from within in that short period of time. The outside players acquired through trade or free agency had better hit at a pretty high rate for this ship to right more quickly.

Epstein is in for a huge challenge and his margin for error may not be that wide.

by krummy12 on Oct 25, 2011 2:51 PM CDT up reply actions  

It will take a high hit rate for this ship to right itself.

That doesn’t mean it’s out of the realm of possibility.

Theo! Good job, Tommy Boy!

by shoemile on Oct 25, 2011 2:54 PM CDT up reply actions  

Too easy

You’re talking “realm of possibility” concerning a franchise that hasn’t won a championship in 103 years. And it’s only October? That is called an optimists optimism….or something like that.

by krummy12 on Oct 25, 2011 2:56 PM CDT up reply actions  

I know

…what you’re saying. And if that “guy” you’re talking about gets to bring a whole bunch of those same players that won thohse two championships, or find reasonable facsimiles thereof, your optimism will be rewarded.

by krummy12 on Oct 25, 2011 2:59 PM CDT up reply actions  

IMO...

…it is going to take Theo a year, to bring in most of the people he wants to be part of his organization. It will take another 2-3 years, to start to see results from the drafting and developing philosophies that will be instilled.

In the near term, Theo can certainly; assemble a roster in a manner that values his theory of how to play the game, instill and promote a new culture with his leadership, the people he hires and the new field manager he selects to run the club.

I still don’t think most realize how much of a mess that has to be cleaned up here. Some of it can be fixed quickly (manager, coaches, roster assembly) but the real guts of this thing, will happen over the next several years.

"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel

by MPH73 on Oct 25, 2011 2:56 PM CDT up reply actions  

Let's get specific.

Casey Kopitzke is a manager in the Cubs system. His team was allergic to walks last year. How long will it take for his team to draw more walks?

First, walks will be emphasized in practice in Arizona. Kopitzke will echo that to his (many of them new) players. Those that don’t reach base by whatever means necessary will ‘go away’.

The Cubs window in the NLC should open in 2013 or 2014. If spending and development ramp up, by 2014, 5 winning years of 7 will be very possible.

I’m good with that.

I'm a Cubs fan. The Jaded Bitterness comes as a Standard Feature.

by timh815 on Oct 25, 2011 3:03 PM CDT up reply actions  

A word on taking walks...

…if Casey Kopitzke’s team last year was allergic to walks, it is much more a reflection on the types of playes that were drafted, than anything else.

Sure, young guys can be taught to be more patient (to some degree) when they are early in their careers, but a lot of this is driven by each players intrinsic hitting style and even personality.

This is precisely why, the statisical analysis used by Billy Beane and Theo etc, place a high value on whether a player is a free swinger by nature, or whether they are more patient. They realize, once a free swinger, it is much harder to make that guy a patient hitter.

This was the cornerstone of Jim Hendry’s philosophy – hack away, be aggressive and they even promoted this with fast guys (Felix Pie, Cory Patterson), who you would want to learn patience, so they could use their speed more often on the bases. Tyler Colvin (a Wilken draft), is also another example of a guy who doesn’t know how to take walks and likely, never will.

"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel

by MPH73 on Oct 25, 2011 3:28 PM CDT up reply actions  

And

our 2011 picks (DeVoss, Vogelbach, Hoilman) are willing to walk.

I'm a Cubs fan. The Jaded Bitterness comes as a Standard Feature.

by timh815 on Oct 25, 2011 3:37 PM CDT up reply actions  

nice

"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel

by MPH73 on Oct 25, 2011 3:57 PM CDT up reply actions  

Add Lake, Barney, Campana and many others.

It will be interesting to see if any of the older prospects get it and start trying to walk more or if their approach is too ingrained.

John Grabow - Who will pay you $4.8 million in 2012?

by rlpete on Oct 25, 2011 5:03 PM CDT up reply actions  

By 5 winning years...

Do you mean 5 years of >.500, 5 years of World Series wins, or 5 years of postseason berths?

On the other side is the manager. Theo can do all that he can to build a better team, but they need a manager to keep them from freaking out or flipping out every time a fan grabs a ball, a black cat crosses their path, or a goat is barred entry from the field. Some new thing of legend will invariably visit the Cubs with a specter of ‘curse’. They need a good manager to keep them from getting bent out of shape and losing their well-oiled machine composure.

by ddoubleheader on Oct 25, 2011 9:37 PM CDT up reply actions  

5 of 7 over 500

by a decent margin. 90, 79, 92, 94, 83, 97, 99 would qualify.

Manager is so overrated. A good manager knows to play Pedroia near the top of the order, start Lester on his turn, and don’t have Ortiz run. The key for a good manager is to properly use his pen, and get quality ABs from his bench.

10-25-2011. Theo Epstein joins the Cubs. Now, the fun begins.

by timh815 on Oct 25, 2011 9:42 PM CDT up reply actions  

And apparently

they need someone to keep the fried chicken away from Lester. Lord help him if he comes to the Southside and finds Harold’s Chicken Shack.

by ddoubleheader on Oct 26, 2011 1:36 AM CDT up reply actions  

Here's the draft plan

1. Wisely spend 15-20 million per year on the draft and internationals.

2. Understand that most won’t be legit big leaguers.

3. Continue with step 1.

4 Trade when it makes sense.

5. Sprinkle in vet FA talent.

6. Continue with step 1.

7 Win titles.

8 Continue with step 1.

I'm a Cubs fan. The Jaded Bitterness comes as a Standard Feature.

by timh815 on Oct 25, 2011 2:45 PM CDT up reply actions  

9. Profit

Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."

by ballhawk on Oct 25, 2011 11:30 PM CDT up reply actions  

Our 1981 system had Joe Carter in it.

It also turned out a bunch of “hang around MLB for 10 years” types like Carmelo Martinez and Henry Cotto. Jody Davis had basically just arrived, as had Lee Smith.

But really, all you have to say is “Joe Carter was in the minor league system in 1981”, and the only comp is Brett Jackson, and from that point, you really have to hope that the 2011 draftees fill out the system.

MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown

by D98 on Oct 25, 2011 2:55 PM CDT up reply actions  

Jody Davis

was a Rule 5 pick from the Mets.

by Josh Timmers on Oct 25, 2011 3:39 PM CDT up reply actions  

I noted that in my first post in this thread.

The one right below this one.

He’d been added to our system for the 1981 season, and had played 50 games with the MLB squad in ’81.

MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown

by D98 on Oct 25, 2011 4:15 PM CDT up reply actions  

Carter more polished,

but Golden has some similarities.

I'm a Cubs fan. The Jaded Bitterness comes as a Standard Feature.

by timh815 on Oct 25, 2011 3:43 PM CDT up reply actions  

Yeah.... I'm not really seeing that.

Joe Carter slugged .583 at AA in his second pro season. With a .358 OBP.
 
Golden has 64 games worth of .242/.332/.420 for a .752 OPS at short season A- ball. With 68 K.

Golden is obviously younger than Carter was when he started his pro career, but Carter showed serious power by age 22 – Golden will have to step that up.

There’s just not a whole lot of anything to point to with Golden as being similar to Joe Carter. At least not yet.

MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown

by D98 on Oct 25, 2011 4:22 PM CDT up reply actions  

There's absolutely no doubt that Golden holds plus to plus plus power.

He’s young and making adjustments to his game, the power will come easily. What was most surprising about him was his ability to take a walk this year. That was a great thing to see.

by bdlugz on Oct 25, 2011 4:45 PM CDT up reply actions  

Shhhhh

Don’t tell Al. That 1981 farm system was indeed much better.

And Al, I’m just messing with you. No need to engage in heated debate on a day that should be a positive going forward.

by krummy12 on Oct 25, 2011 2:55 PM CDT up reply actions  

If we have one Joe Carter in our system, then maybe this would be correct.

I see a bunch of people we HOPE have Carmelo Martinez level careers, and a few Henry Cottos.

MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown

by D98 on Oct 25, 2011 3:00 PM CDT up reply actions  

The overall balance may be similar

And since it took Green until 1984 to build a winning team, 2014 would be the same horizon for Epstein. I’d take that. What I really want to see is a team that isn’t a 1-year wonder like the 1984 team, which had a lot of late career guys (Cey, Matthewson, Bowa) and younger guys who flamed out (Durham, Davis, Dernier).

by ClarkFan on Oct 26, 2011 9:21 AM CDT up reply actions  

trying to find a copy of the presser on the web - desperately trying...

If the Cubs still have a chance, no matter how small, it’s still Go Cubs, damn the math and pass the KoolAid.

by eths on Oct 25, 2011 2:00 PM CDT reply actions  

WGN radio has an audio (if it ever downloads) but I haven't managed to find a full video yet...

If the Cubs still have a chance, no matter how small, it’s still Go Cubs, damn the math and pass the KoolAid.

by eths on Oct 25, 2011 2:03 PM CDT up reply actions  

all i can find is

this…

As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.

by santoswoodenlegs on Oct 25, 2011 2:04 PM CDT up reply actions  

You are sooo cruel... By the way alligator soup is supposed to taste very fine...

If the Cubs still have a chance, no matter how small, it’s still Go Cubs, damn the math and pass the KoolAid.

by eths on Oct 25, 2011 2:06 PM CDT up reply actions  

hahahahahahahaha!

So i you can give you can take it.

by epsilon on Oct 25, 2011 2:18 PM CDT up reply actions  

Amen!

Best day to be a Cubs fan in a long time. Looking forward to celebrating the many exciting developments with all the deserving fans here on BCB.

And kudos, Al for this:

clearly I was wrong about Starbucks-gate

Classy move on a day where we should all be looking forward with the realization that our team is finally in good hands with an excellent chance at sustained success.

by John916 on Oct 25, 2011 2:03 PM CDT reply actions  

Jaramillo is only as good as the players he has to work with...

Rudy Jaramillo is a good hitting coach – the problem is that many of the guys he has to work with aren’t great hitters. The hitting coach has no ability to magically assert his will over a player – that player has to want to listen, has to want to change, and have the ability to incorporate the changes when they come to the plate.

I hope they keep Jaramillo, as I would like to see what he could do in a culture where players are truly held accountable for their actions.

I think I speak for everyone here when I say, "Wait, what the hell are you talking about?"

by Ross on Oct 25, 2011 2:04 PM CDT reply actions  

not really arguing any point with you, but...

how bout them 2011 rangers?

So i you can give you can take it.

by epsilon on Oct 25, 2011 2:20 PM CDT up reply actions  

interesting point...

the Rangers replaced their hitting coach at mid-season, firing Thad Bosley on June 8. They raised their batting average 20 points from there until the end of the season, but it took a month for any real change to start.

I think I speak for everyone here when I say, "Wait, what the hell are you talking about?"

by Ross on Oct 25, 2011 2:36 PM CDT up reply actions  

that's probably park effects-related

the ball FLIES in Arlington in July/August

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by DartmouthCubsFan on Oct 25, 2011 2:38 PM CDT up reply actions  

yeah thats whats weird about Rudy...

how do you judge him? because he really hasnt had any talent to make him look good, but if you’re that good of a hitting coach then the bad hitters should have improved under his tutelage, no? if you had fielder and braun and reyes under you and their hitting tanked..then of course he’s bad, but again, how do you judge the guy?

So i you can give you can take it.

by epsilon on Oct 25, 2011 2:41 PM CDT up reply actions  

Agreed.

"Pounding sand since 1982...."

by cubswynn on Oct 25, 2011 2:36 PM CDT up reply actions  

Normally I'd agree.

But I think he shoulders a decent amount of responsibility for the Cubs low walk totals and low pitches per plate appearance numbers.

Theo! Good job, Tommy Boy!

by shoemile on Oct 25, 2011 3:09 PM CDT up reply actions  

Hitting coaches...

…are the most overated coaching position in all of sports and they didn’t even exist until about 25-30 years ago.

This is one area of baseball that can be overanalyzed and guys end up with; paralysis from analysis because of it. Hitting is a reactive thing and if your mind isn’t free to react, you are screwed. How many hitting coaches did Ted Williams have, or Willie Mays or Roberto Clemente, Billy Williams and on and on and on.

"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel

by MPH73 on Oct 25, 2011 4:06 PM CDT up reply actions  

Well, Ted Williams' hitting coach was Ted Williams

And he analyzed hitting approaches extensively. Seems to have worked OK.

Someone at least needs to work with these guys on pitch recognition and the “go, no-go” portions of the strike zone.

by ClarkFan on Oct 25, 2011 4:10 PM CDT up reply actions  

Too late...

…to do that in the bigs, you only end up messing with these guys heads.

Analyzing hitters, has gotten almost as bad as what they have done to golfers. When you watch a golf tournament, it gets nauseating how much over analysis is done on every single frigging swing. Golfers have turned into robots vs having any of their own identity, that maximizes their own unique abilities.

"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel

by MPH73 on Oct 25, 2011 4:13 PM CDT up reply actions  

But one of Ted Williams biggest problems was that his players weren't Ted Williams

The guys he was teaching just weren’t as skilled – they couldn’t do the things being asked of them by Williams, and he couldn’t understand why they couldn’t do it.

I think I speak for everyone here when I say, "Wait, what the hell are you talking about?"

by Ross on Oct 25, 2011 5:19 PM CDT up reply actions  

I'm also pleasantly surprised by Ricketts' commitment to..

…giving Epstein the resources he needs to be successful. A few months ago I would’ve thought the idea of jettisoning Soriano was a pipe dream-now it’s suddenly starting to seem possible.

by bluekoolaide on Oct 25, 2011 2:04 PM CDT reply actions  

I can see why Ricketts kind of fell in love with Theo.

In addition to his resume, Theo exudes a sort of professionalism that is straight out of the business world. I know Ricketts had a good rapport with Hendry, but I think Ricketts and Theo definitely speak the same language. And I don’t mean ‘corporate’ in a bad way. Theo was just very measured, and he threw in some good lines — the one about Starbucks, for instance.

Also, Theo’s comments about fundamentals and wanting players who have each others’ backs made me lose any remaining thoughts that Quade might be retained. Theo clearly wants the Cubs Way to be professional. Given what we saw last season, Quade doesn’t appear to have it in him to enforce that kind of ethos.

Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.

by elgato on Oct 25, 2011 2:07 PM CDT reply actions   1 recs

me too

The Stat Pack

by shoemile on Oct 21, 2011 10:10 PM CDT

by Madison Cub Fan on Oct 25, 2011 3:58 PM CDT up reply actions  

Link?

Does anyone know of a link for video of the whole press conference? I’m only finding clips…

by CubsWin!Oregon on Oct 25, 2011 2:09 PM CDT reply actions  

Check CSNChicago.com

If they don’t have it now, they should later today.

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by Al Yellon on Oct 25, 2011 2:09 PM CDT up reply actions  

The file was not available and sounded like excerpts anyhow

If the Cubs still have a chance, no matter how small, it’s still Go Cubs, damn the math and pass the KoolAid.

by eths on Oct 25, 2011 2:11 PM CDT up reply actions  

I've only found this audio:

http://www.wgnradio.com/sports/baseball/cubs/wgnam-cubs-theo-presser-102511,0,3109160.mp3file

If the Cubs still have a chance, no matter how small, it’s still Go Cubs, damn the math and pass the KoolAid.

by eths on Oct 25, 2011 2:10 PM CDT up reply actions  

thanks

I didn’t notice the audio one

The Stat Pack

by shoemile on Oct 21, 2011 10:10 PM CDT

by Madison Cub Fan on Oct 25, 2011 4:02 PM CDT up reply actions  

here's a video montage...

for you.

As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.

by santoswoodenlegs on Oct 25, 2011 2:15 PM CDT up reply actions  

6 minutes

and still watching it…

So i you can give you can take it.

by epsilon on Oct 25, 2011 2:22 PM CDT up reply actions  

I'm not clicking on anything from you that has a tinyurl in it.

"The riches of the game are in the thrills, not the money." --Ernie Banks

by dtpollitt on Oct 25, 2011 2:33 PM CDT up reply actions  

honestly....

worth it!

So i you can give you can take it.

by epsilon on Oct 25, 2011 2:41 PM CDT up reply actions  

I'd like to see the last ten 10 minutes or so

I missed it.

The Stat Pack

by shoemile on Oct 21, 2011 10:10 PM CDT

by Madison Cub Fan on Oct 25, 2011 4:00 PM CDT up reply actions  

First of all

Welcome to the Cubs Theo! GITRDONETHEO!

2) I honestly don’t expect much right out of the gate, but I do have high hopes for the organization within the next five years.

3) Go Cubs Go!

Twitter = tpears86

by MMA42 on Oct 25, 2011 2:10 PM CDT reply actions  

Typo 5th paragraph down, "wer"

"The riches of the game are in the thrills, not the money." --Ernie Banks

by dtpollitt on Oct 25, 2011 2:11 PM CDT reply actions  

What wer you expecting?

I spent 90% of my money on women and drink. The rest I wasted - George Best

by Blue W on Oct 25, 2011 2:11 PM CDT up reply actions  

Not trying to be rude.

Al usually appreciates it.

"The riches of the game are in the thrills, not the money." --Ernie Banks

by dtpollitt on Oct 25, 2011 2:12 PM CDT up reply actions  

Wer is German and means who.

If the Cubs still have a chance, no matter how small, it’s still Go Cubs, damn the math and pass the KoolAid.

by eths on Oct 25, 2011 2:13 PM CDT up reply actions  

Now I'm just confused, did he mean were or who?

"The riches of the game are in the thrills, not the money." --Ernie Banks

by dtpollitt on Oct 25, 2011 2:32 PM CDT up reply actions  

DNA testing will show how much German ancestry Al has, then, and only then, we can try to infer what was meant.

If the Cubs still have a chance, no matter how small, it’s still Go Cubs, damn the math and pass the KoolAid.

by eths on Oct 25, 2011 3:02 PM CDT up reply actions  

Aber es bereitet mir so viel Spaß... ;-)

If the Cubs still have a chance, no matter how small, it’s still Go Cubs, damn the math and pass the KoolAid.

by eths on Oct 26, 2011 2:08 AM CDT up reply actions  

Oh.

Thanks, I’ll fix it.

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by Al Yellon on Oct 25, 2011 2:30 PM CDT up reply actions  

OMG - I'm drooling all over my computer listening to the audio of the presser.

If the Cubs still have a chance, no matter how small, it’s still Go Cubs, damn the math and pass the KoolAid.

by eths on Oct 25, 2011 2:13 PM CDT reply actions  

yup

I'm a Cubs fan. The Jaded Bitterness comes as a Standard Feature.

by timh815 on Oct 25, 2011 2:13 PM CDT up reply actions  

you should have seen the video then

:)

The Stat Pack

by shoemile on Oct 21, 2011 10:10 PM CDT

by Madison Cub Fan on Oct 25, 2011 4:03 PM CDT up reply actions  

I'm SO sad I missed it!!!

Believe or Leave ~Cubswynn 9/9/2008

by slcathena on Oct 25, 2011 6:56 PM CDT up reply actions  

trust me it's worth looking for

Besides looking @ him…. just the way he presented himself and spoke was interesting.

The Stat Pack

by shoemile on Oct 21, 2011 10:10 PM CDT

by Madison Cub Fan on Oct 25, 2011 8:53 PM CDT up reply actions  

He is nice to look at. :)

I did listen to it, and loved what I heard!

Believe or Leave ~Cubswynn 9/9/2008

by slcathena on Oct 26, 2011 12:48 AM CDT up reply actions  

the joy returns to Mudville...

"Wait, are you saying I'm a sunshine-pumping, koolaid-drinking, Soriano-loving, rainbow-rising, unicorn-riding, double-clutching, Sweet Lou-backing, Hendry-supporting, hey hey whaddya saying, Cubs are going all the waying, glass is overflowing, Rothschild is all-knowing, Cubs fan? - ballhawk

by vonde6 on Oct 25, 2011 2:13 PM CDT reply actions  

I just can't get

enough of the blue kool aid today.

Theo is a breath of fresh air. Loved listening to him today.

by sue369 on Oct 25, 2011 2:27 PM CDT reply actions  

I agree.

It’s a good day to be a cubs fan. :)

Believe or Leave ~Cubswynn 9/9/2008

by slcathena on Oct 25, 2011 6:56 PM CDT up reply actions  

Only thing missing is

a blue koolaid Koolaid Man to crash into the press conference shouting “Oh yeaaaaahhhhh!!”

by ddoubleheader on Oct 26, 2011 1:40 AM CDT up reply actions  

Anybody else notice....

…. how Ricketts looked like the cat that ate the canary? The guy’s got to be feeling pretty good today.

by Flatley on Oct 25, 2011 2:30 PM CDT reply actions  

Likes and Dislikes

I like the hire. I like the approach. I like the passion. I like the prospects in the very long term.

I dislike the current state of the major-league club. I dislike the current state of the minor league organization. I dislike the prospects of a quick turnaround from the nightmare season of 2011. I really dislike Phil Rogers’ suggestion that an impact bat at a corner position in Fielder and Pujols is probably not a possibility. Not suggesting I believe Rogers, but suggesting that one of those two guys would and should go a long way to fixing this mess.

by krummy12 on Oct 25, 2011 2:30 PM CDT reply actions  

True or false

We are bottom five in number of scouts.

I'm a Cubs fan. The Jaded Bitterness comes as a Standard Feature.

by timh815 on Oct 25, 2011 2:38 PM CDT up reply actions  

True.

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by Al Yellon on Oct 25, 2011 2:41 PM CDT up reply actions  

Not sure it matters

Without checking, I’ll take a stab and say true. Then again, you could conceivably have 20,000 scouts who have a difficult time finding their head with both hands. Quality scouts are obviously what this club needs…and plenty of them.

by krummy12 on Oct 25, 2011 2:41 PM CDT up reply actions  

Who's fault is that?

You have a club that has spent more money than 90% of the clubs in baseball and they can’t have an adequate scouting staff?

One reason for this; Jim Hendry wanted a group of scouts that were; “his guys” and obviously made no effort to expand the size of the scouting staff. It would literally take, 10% of Soriano’s yearly salary, to add 20 scouts. I have a hard time believing, that if Hendry asked for this, ownership would have said no.

Lastly, it doesn’t matter how many scouts you have, if they aren’t good at recognizing “the right” talent. Quality, is much more important than quantitity.

"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel

by MPH73 on Oct 25, 2011 2:45 PM CDT up reply actions   2 recs

Theo will continue to add to

quality and quantity of scouts, trainers, instructors, dieticians, and stat wonks.

I'm a Cubs fan. The Jaded Bitterness comes as a Standard Feature.

by timh815 on Oct 25, 2011 2:48 PM CDT up reply actions  

No kidding?

"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel

by MPH73 on Oct 25, 2011 2:50 PM CDT up reply actions  

Obviously you don't expect ground-breaking stuff at a presser like this

So I think it went as well as we could have hoped. Theo said all the right stuff, expressed the right concepts.

I thought he also presented himself in a very “business-like” manner, not unlike Ricketts, himself. It’s no wonder they “click.”

Bleacher Nation - Cubs Rumors and News

by Brett Taylor on Oct 25, 2011 2:31 PM CDT reply actions  

That is very well put

I totally agree. I would add, that I also feel that Cubs have finally stepped into 21st century.

The Stat Pack

by shoemile on Oct 21, 2011 10:10 PM CDT

by Madison Cub Fan on Oct 25, 2011 4:07 PM CDT up reply actions  

You just said

everything I was feeling…

It’ll sound sappy but it feels a bit like Christmas and a Birthday all in one…

THEEEEEOOOOOOO....

by Endrick on Oct 25, 2011 4:54 PM CDT up reply actions  

WHEN WILL THERE BE A PLAN

AND WILL IT BE PUBLICLY POSTED

"The riches of the game are in the thrills, not the money." --Ernie Banks

by dtpollitt on Oct 25, 2011 2:36 PM CDT reply actions   2 recs

And

voted on in a BCB poll

by John916 on Oct 25, 2011 2:40 PM CDT up reply actions  

Theo gives good press :)

Refreshing for once in this city, considering we have the likes of Jerry Angelo bumbling over his words at ever presser.

This is the true beginning of a new era in Cubs history and as a fan, it feels great. Our rivals are on notice and should be shaking…. the Cubs are going to build a powerhouse for once.

"You win because of the quarterback. We have to get that position stabilized. We're fixated on that." -- Jerry Angelo (12.30.2008)

Jerry Angelo trades for Jay Cutler! (4.2.2009)

by SackMan on Oct 25, 2011 2:37 PM CDT reply actions  

Good thing the Cubs didn't get Lackey.

Tweet from Boston beat writer Gordon Edes:

Tommy John surgery for Lackey

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by Al Yellon on Oct 25, 2011 2:45 PM CDT reply actions  

He must of blown his elbow out while lifting his beer mug.

by ZeoBandit on Oct 25, 2011 2:59 PM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

Or trying to pitch a fastball

with all that grease from the fried chicken he was eating.

Lucky he played in the American League and didn’t need to go up to bat or else he might lose his launch trying to trot to first.

by ddoubleheader on Oct 26, 2011 1:42 AM CDT up reply actions  

He was more of a Vaseline/KY jelly pitcher

also slippery elm, emery board, belt buckle, thumbtack, rosin, bryll cream, and of course, nothing beats a good old-fashioned hocked-up loogie.

Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."

by ballhawk on Oct 26, 2011 10:29 AM CDT up reply actions  

I really liked what I heard today

should be an exciting offseason, can’t wait to get the manager thing figured out.

by cubman987 on Oct 25, 2011 2:45 PM CDT reply actions  

Anyone with a transcript

what was Theo’s line about the scout, the instructor, the coach, and the player? Buying in to the system is very important. If (insert employee) doesn’t want it as bad as a similarly talented Brewers (prospect/coach/scout/instructor), they will kick our butt.

If not…

I'm a Cubs fan. The Jaded Bitterness comes as a Standard Feature.

by timh815 on Oct 25, 2011 3:09 PM CDT reply actions  

I really liked the rhetoric in the press conference. Now we wait and wait and wait to see if the involved can fill their words with equal deeds.

 
I, for one, am very optimistic.
 
 

If the Cubs still have a chance, no matter how small, it’s still Go Cubs, damn the math and pass the KoolAid.

by eths on Oct 25, 2011 3:14 PM CDT reply actions  

I just finished making reservations at the Scottsdale Links Resort in March

mainly because the Westgate Painted Mountain Resort in Mesa is already sold out.

Now of course Theo won’t be out there at Dwight Patterson Field doing the pitching and hitting, but watching the Cubs has just become a little more worthwhile. I’m looking forward to experiencing the new vibe around the team this coming spring.

by EalyEagle on Oct 25, 2011 3:19 PM CDT reply actions  

Sounds cool

I am thankful to this day that my grandparents live in Surprise AZ. Free lodging and grandpa pays!!

"Hey.....Cubs win!!!" ---Harry
"Cubs win....what a lucky break!!" ---Harry

by Hammer on Oct 25, 2011 3:26 PM CDT up reply actions  

Motel 6 Scottsdale

Best deal around.

"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either

by Doggie Stalker on Oct 25, 2011 4:44 PM CDT up reply actions  

So if we are thinking about ST

we should make our plans now?

The Stat Pack

by shoemile on Oct 21, 2011 10:10 PM CDT

by Madison Cub Fan on Oct 25, 2011 4:48 PM CDT up reply actions  

We pondered this before all this good news

So we figured it’d be busy but with last season’s ineptness that a little less than normal.

The Stat Pack

by shoemile on Oct 21, 2011 10:10 PM CDT

by Madison Cub Fan on Oct 25, 2011 8:55 PM CDT up reply actions  

I would love to do this.

I have family in AZ and would just need the time off. It’s worth more pondering.

Believe or Leave ~Cubswynn 9/9/2008

by slcathena on Oct 26, 2011 12:49 AM CDT up reply actions  

You could even do a fly out thursday night and fly back monday night

only take off 2 days from work.

The Stat Pack

by shoemile on Oct 21, 2011 10:10 PM CDT

by Madison Cub Fan on Oct 26, 2011 8:30 AM CDT up reply actions  

Can't Believe It

But I do now. Got to be one of the best if not the best days for all Cubs fans. Pretty cool feeling to know the organization is moving in the right direction.

by Uncle Fungus on Oct 25, 2011 3:49 PM CDT reply actions  

Epstein said all the right things.

I saw the press conference on Comcast (through Dish’s extended sports pack). I’m convinced Ricketts got the right person to lead the baseball operations. He outlined a plan with enough details to let us see where the priorities will be (development in-house with the productive FA, not the washed out ones Hendry rewarded with big contracts). As for Quade, he didn’t back him up and the guy will probably be gone after he interviews with the new front office guys. The old Boston posse was put up together in Chicago. We can check out what they did in Boston to know the approach they’ll take. Success will take time, but I expect improvements starting next season.

by Fraggin Judge on Oct 25, 2011 4:05 PM CDT reply actions  

Al, you mentioned Rudy Jaramillo

and I can’t help but think what the Rangers have done without him.

by Mapmaker on Oct 25, 2011 4:12 PM CDT reply actions   2 recs

this...so much this.

As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.

by santoswoodenlegs on Oct 25, 2011 4:19 PM CDT up reply actions  

Yes, BUT

… check out their offensive numbers since Rudy left. Consistent, or a little lower.

The Rangers have won the last two years because their pitching has improved.

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by Al Yellon on Oct 25, 2011 4:26 PM CDT up reply actions  

I wish there were a reliable way to estimate the number of runs we didn't score and the number of extra innings the opposing starter got to pitch

because of our terrible plate discipline, incompetent situational hitting ability and ridiculously over-aggressiveness at the plate.

As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.

by santoswoodenlegs on Oct 25, 2011 4:33 PM CDT up reply actions  

I had this sent to me

Don’t have link, but think it might be fangraph. It might answer part of that.

A computer analysis of the value of patience at the plate could lead Epstein to wave goodbye to third baseman Aramis Ramirez, who has said he wants to return but will decline the $16 million mutual option for 2012 and become a free agent.

Ramirez was second worst in the National League in pitches per plate appearance (3.32) and led the league in swinging at the first pitch (42.2 percent of the time). Ramirez also led the majors with 12 first-pitch home runs.

The Stat Pack

by shoemile on Oct 21, 2011 10:10 PM CDT

by Madison Cub Fan on Oct 25, 2011 4:36 PM CDT up reply actions  

No idea

But I do like when math backs up my ideas. :)

The Stat Pack

by shoemile on Oct 21, 2011 10:10 PM CDT

by Madison Cub Fan on Oct 25, 2011 4:42 PM CDT up reply actions  

That would be my guess

"Grantland Rice, the great sportswriter once said, 'It's not whether you win or lose, it's how you play the game.' Well Grantland Rice can go to hell as far as I'm concerned." -Gene Autry

by Easy Ed on Oct 25, 2011 6:22 PM CDT up reply actions  

Sure feels like it.

But I refuse to look up something so depressing today. :P

Believe or Leave ~Cubswynn 9/9/2008

by slcathena on Oct 25, 2011 7:28 PM CDT up reply actions  

I don't think he needs a computer analysis

to know that Ramirez is not worth what he’s asking for in a multi-year contract.

by Josh Timmers on Oct 25, 2011 4:43 PM CDT up reply actions  

I would hope not

But he was curious about stats.

The Stat Pack

by shoemile on Oct 21, 2011 10:10 PM CDT

by Madison Cub Fan on Oct 25, 2011 4:47 PM CDT up reply actions  

Rumor has it, next week.

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by Al Yellon on Oct 25, 2011 4:26 PM CDT up reply actions  

I'd love to be in that first meeting

The Stat Pack

by shoemile on Oct 21, 2011 10:10 PM CDT

by Madison Cub Fan on Oct 25, 2011 4:33 PM CDT up reply actions  

When Tom was extolling Kenney at the press conference

He slipped up and said his “partition” when trying to say “participation”. Now I begin formulating my conspiracy theory…

Theo! Good job, Tommy Boy!

by shoemile on Oct 25, 2011 4:37 PM CDT reply actions  

Here, you'll need this.

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by Al Yellon on Oct 25, 2011 4:41 PM CDT up reply actions  

If you watch PTI

Theo is giving 5 minutes

"Hey.....Cubs win!!!" ---Harry
"Cubs win....what a lucky break!!" ---Harry

by Hammer on Oct 25, 2011 4:48 PM CDT reply actions  

if you can't watch today

You can catch it tomorrow online.

The Stat Pack

by shoemile on Oct 21, 2011 10:10 PM CDT

by Madison Cub Fan on Oct 25, 2011 4:54 PM CDT up reply actions  

on the Cubs in recent years

- Good talent offensively, players over aggressive, do not grind out at bats (on the Cubs)
- poor defensive fundatmentals (on the Cubs)
- biggest difference, from first year here and first year in BOS was the core was there
    - he is looking forward to build things from the ground up
- Why did the Red Sox collapse?? cliches, pitching, clubhouse problems were exaggerated
- If Boston made the playoffs would he still be in BOS? Don’t know
- On Bartman (sigh) like Buckner he would be open to bringing him in. Dumb question

"Hey.....Cubs win!!!" ---Harry
"Cubs win....what a lucky break!!" ---Harry

by Hammer on Oct 25, 2011 4:54 PM CDT up reply actions  

or we could save our time and read your recap

The Stat Pack

by shoemile on Oct 21, 2011 10:10 PM CDT

by Madison Cub Fan on Oct 25, 2011 4:55 PM CDT up reply actions  

I watched that segment

I DVR PTI everyday…

And I was Amening the entire time.

The fundamentals the last few years have been horrible. Just plain bad.

A return to that is a good first step, IMNSHO.

by The_Rock on Oct 25, 2011 8:57 PM CDT up reply actions  

Awesome.

Well wishes to your mom and Jeff’s dad.

"They sell every ticket to every game, win or lose!" - Tom Ricketts

by bluemagic9 on Oct 25, 2011 7:07 PM CDT up reply actions  

Sorry, but no

because I don’t trust Matt Harrison to do anything other than suck. If the WS goes to 7 games, the Cards are in the driver’s seat.

They should have pulled Holland a few innings early on Sunday

by uptowncub on Oct 25, 2011 10:33 PM CDT up reply actions  

Obvi yes.

More baseball. But Rangers win is MANDATORY.

Believe or Leave ~Cubswynn 9/9/2008

by slcathena on Oct 26, 2011 12:49 AM CDT up reply actions  

To all of you: Thank you for the good wishes.

Now lets hope the other team (Texas) gets it done!

If the Cubs still have a chance, no matter how small, it’s still Go Cubs, damn the math and pass the KoolAid.

by eths on Oct 26, 2011 2:13 AM CDT up reply actions  

Happy to hear the good news from both of you.

Dear Great Pumpkin, I am looking forward to your arrival on Halloween Night. I hope you will bring me lots of presents.

by katie casey on Oct 26, 2011 7:56 AM CDT up reply actions  

rec on both

"Hey.....Cubs win!!!" ---Harry
"Cubs win....what a lucky break!!" ---Harry

by Hammer on Oct 25, 2011 4:55 PM CDT up reply actions  

All the hand wringing about Kenney

Won’t Theo’s decade of dealing with Larry Lucchino help him in having to deal with Kenney

The Stat Pack

by shoemile on Oct 21, 2011 10:10 PM CDT

by Madison Cub Fan on Oct 25, 2011 5:07 PM CDT reply actions  

I think that's a great point.

Experience like that is worth its weight in gold.

Believe or Leave ~Cubswynn 9/9/2008

by slcathena on Oct 25, 2011 7:40 PM CDT up reply actions  

theo epstein

hell yeah!

THEOOOOOOOOO (and Hoyer)

by jesus christos on Oct 25, 2011 5:39 PM CDT reply actions  

Just another routine day in Cub-dom....

Ho hum….or is it Dinah Mo hum?

"He can compress the most words into the smallest idea of any man I know. " Abraham Lincoln

by cubfever7 on Oct 25, 2011 5:39 PM CDT up reply actions  

Ooooolde Zappa... :]

There are no facts, only interpretations.
Friedrich Nietzsche
Lets Go Theo!!! 10/13/2011

by jeffstorm2 on Oct 25, 2011 9:51 PM CDT up reply actions  

Theo is awesome.

Said on CTL that if you only make short term moves, then yeah, you’ll hit paydirt every once in a while, but then you’ll disappear in two or three years, and so what was the point in that?

Theo! Good job, Tommy Boy!

by shoemile on Oct 25, 2011 5:51 PM CDT reply actions  

Ya watching it as well. Found this interesting

“You cant enter a winter saying we have no shot to win this year so lets just punt and wait for next year. Now that said we have to balance the short term needs we have with the long term out look. I will be honest their are going to be moves that we contemplate in which those interest conflict. A move that might serve the short term but hurt the long term…….My tendency is not to hurt the long term to much”

“I would like to build a home grown core for the long term…..”

“Short term you can buy low and wait out the market in certain areas….”

I want history to erase their every achievement.....I want them to feel the disgust in the red sox fans eyes when they look on them in shame....

- Theo Epstein on Larry Lucchino and John Henry

by CloudyFuture on Oct 25, 2011 5:59 PM CDT up reply actions  

a cubs GM with a plan?

i don’t like it one bit!

THEOOOOOOOOO (and Hoyer)

by jesus christos on Oct 25, 2011 6:13 PM CDT up reply actions  

Hmm... maybe we should ask the Florida Marlins?

Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."

by ballhawk on Oct 25, 2011 11:49 PM CDT up reply actions  

Tribune Live on CSN

Theo is much more expansive on particulars. Among items was question about LaHair. He believes many players are mislabeled as AAAA. He wants hitters who have hit everywhere. He’ll also be getting in depth college hitter stats to evaluate them.

Bottom line is we can expect fewer prospects to be drafted based upon good old boy recs from friends and family. Also loved his comments that the organization will have guidelines for our coached at all levels so everyone will be expected to teach the same fundamentals, Wants hitters to know the strike zone and get in hitters counts. Try to get the starter out in the 5th and 6th innings rather than the 7th and beyond. Make opposing pitchers work harder rather than making easy and early outs.

A great interview and a refreshing change from typical Cubs ball.

If it wasn't for the injuries, we'd be printing WS tickets right now.

by tharr on Oct 25, 2011 6:13 PM CDT reply actions  

I just watched Epstein on CTL, too...

…I got the opinion from listening to him that the door for Zambrano is still open. Am I reading too much into that?

"Grantland Rice, the great sportswriter once said, 'It's not whether you win or lose, it's how you play the game.' Well Grantland Rice can go to hell as far as I'm concerned." -Gene Autry

by Easy Ed on Oct 25, 2011 6:18 PM CDT up reply actions  

I thought that as well

when I heard him talk about that…..But then he did say he still had to talk to everyone with the Cubs…..IMO His thoughts on aram meant he was not coming back….Sounds like Quade is done as well……Guess we will see…..

I want history to erase their every achievement.....I want them to feel the disgust in the red sox fans eyes when they look on them in shame....

- Theo Epstein on Larry Lucchino and John Henry

by CloudyFuture on Oct 25, 2011 6:21 PM CDT up reply actions  

I think his M.O. today has been to not rule anything out.

Do I expect him to come back? No. But like Theo said about the payroll today, what good does it do to show your hand?

Theo! Good job, Tommy Boy!

by shoemile on Oct 25, 2011 6:21 PM CDT up reply actions  

Why would he announce to everyone

that Z is gone? Theo doesn’t need to run him.

TE will try to trade Z. If Z acts like a child, he gets suspended, and we get our money back (which would be better than any trade. If he is a professional and shows up in condition, we trade him when we get a good enough deal. If he gives us 120 innings between DL stints, that’s less that Casey Coleman pitches.

If he’s a horrible teammate, can’t get anyone out, or impales someone, he’s gone.

Theo is new, s he can do that.

I'm a Cubs fan. The Jaded Bitterness comes as a Standard Feature.

by timh815 on Oct 25, 2011 6:29 PM CDT up reply actions  

I agree

Theo can do whatever he wants right now. I’m willing to let him make decisions on the best choices for all our bubble players, ARam, Sori, Z, Pena, Marmol, LaHair. He’ll also have the new GM and his Asst. coming in and both of them are NL execs so they’ll certainly have their input.

There aren’t any quick fixes and I get the impression Pujols and Fielder aren’t in the cards. In any case, let’s not overreact to each decision he makes. He won’t be placing bands on this flawed organization. It’s a marathon, not a sprint.

If it wasn't for the injuries, we'd be printing WS tickets right now.

by tharr on Oct 25, 2011 6:49 PM CDT up reply actions  

Don't rule out Fielder

I see 150 mil (my rumored number) on 40 Man plus draft plus International. Since I doubt much over 15 in amateur spending, I’d guess 130-135 on the big club. An Edwin Jackson-type starter or two and a mid range 3B would leave room for Prince.

10-25-2011. Theo Epstein joins the Cubs. Now, the fun begins.

by timh815 on Oct 25, 2011 7:17 PM CDT up reply actions  

it was more than $150M this year if you combine the 2011 40 man roster + IFA and MLB draft

It was at least $155M and that is without including the salaries of the last 13 players on the 40 man roster according to Cots baseball contracts. And I distinctly remember Ricketts saying that the total baseball related expeditures were the same in 2011 as they were in 2010 when the Cubs had a $145M 25 man payroll.

I’d venture to say its closer the total payroll for the 40 man roster + draft and IFA market is closer to $160M, but I’m not sure what the salary compensation differences are between league minimum players on the 25 man roster versus those on the 40 man roster is, but if it’s $400,000 then the total payroll + draft + IFA in 2011 was pretty close to $160M I believe

by magicblue on Oct 25, 2011 7:38 PM CDT up reply actions  

26-40 are negligable.

With the outgoing salaries, including Ramirez, we can take one big salary on. I expect a legit offer to Fielder.

I'm a Cubs fan. The Jaded Bitterness comes as a Standard Feature.

by timh815 on Oct 25, 2011 7:42 PM CDT up reply actions  

26-40 are negligable.

I thought that players on the 40 man roster were guaranteed to make the league minimum, but the only information I can find to support that is from this post, but surprisingly I couldn’t find a lot of information about this topic

http://www.brewcrewball.com/2009/1/4/703125/the-40-man-roster-how-does

Many players on 40-man rosters are also subject to contract renewals. This means that if the player and team can’t agree on a salary for the next season, the team is allowed to arbitrarily set whatever salary they want, provided it’s above the league minimum and isn’t more than a 20% pay cut. Players not yet eligible for free agency or arbitration fall under this rule. Last March, Prince Fielder’s contract was renewed by the Brewers after Prince and the team couldn’t agree on a salary.

If that’s the case, then the cost of 26-40 wouldn’t be ‘that’ negligible, I still think it’s closer to $160M. The Cubs should have closer to $40M to play with, especially if they don’t resign ARam

by magicblue on Oct 25, 2011 8:02 PM CDT up reply actions  

see this as well

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Major_League_Baseball_rosters

Also called the expanded roster, the 40-man is composed of all the players in a Major League club’s organization who are signed to a major-league contract.

According to the website below the current minimum salary for players on the major league roster is $414,000

http://mlb.mlb.com/pa/info/faq.jsp#minimum

by magicblue on Oct 25, 2011 8:05 PM CDT up reply actions  

Like I said, those aren't the problems.

The problems are the biggie contracts. With Ramirez, Grabow, Pena, Silva, Dome, and maybe others coming off, we can make a reasonable play for Fielder.

If someone outspends us, we try something else.

I'm a Cubs fan. The Jaded Bitterness comes as a Standard Feature.

by timh815 on Oct 25, 2011 8:18 PM CDT up reply actions  

I think we can afford Fielder

whether or not that’s the wisest play is another issue. I don’t know if I want to lock us into a huge contract at first base for six or seven years.

by Josh Timmers on Oct 25, 2011 8:21 PM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

Like I said,

a reasonable play. 6 years for a number Theo is good with.

I'm a Cubs fan. The Jaded Bitterness comes as a Standard Feature.

by timh815 on Oct 25, 2011 8:31 PM CDT up reply actions  

I've been back and forth on Fielder

First I didn’t want him, then I did. Now I’m leaning back to passing on him. Too much risk on the back end.

But as you say, if the price is right . . .

by Josh Timmers on Oct 25, 2011 10:27 PM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

Fire up the

WAR computer. Figure out numbers for 4, 5, and 6 years. Offer him a legit deal. Let him decide.

10-25-2011. Theo Epstein joins the Cubs. Now, the fun begins.

by timh815 on Oct 25, 2011 10:31 PM CDT up reply actions  

I'm fine with that strategy

but we won’t get him for the amount we’ll come up with. I think he goes to somebody for a big number this offseason.

by uptowncub on Oct 25, 2011 10:40 PM CDT up reply actions  

yup

10-25-2011. Theo Epstein joins the Cubs. Now, the fun begins.

by timh815 on Oct 25, 2011 10:43 PM CDT up reply actions  

No Fielder.

Out of shape, not as much upside. Better if you’re in the AL and want a DH in 3 years. His contract has “I’m a slightly better version of Soriano” written all over it. Get pitching. Even if it’s not Wilson: GET PITCHING.

Believe or Leave ~Cubswynn 9/9/2008

by slcathena on Oct 26, 2011 12:53 AM CDT up reply actions  

Who?

Not much good this offseason. NL will have DH in three years.

10-25-2011. Theo Epstein joins the Cubs. Now, the fun begins.

by timh815 on Oct 26, 2011 5:58 AM CDT up reply actions  

I hope not - I abhor the DH "position"

If the Cubs still have a chance, no matter how small, it’s still Go Cubs, damn the math and pass the KoolAid.

by eths on Oct 26, 2011 6:18 AM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

So do I

However, I expect it soon.

10-25-2011. Theo Epstein joins the Cubs. Now, the fun begins.

by timh815 on Oct 26, 2011 6:21 AM CDT up reply actions  

You may be right - I think the players union would welcome it.

If the Cubs still have a chance, no matter how small, it’s still Go Cubs, damn the math and pass the KoolAid.

by eths on Oct 26, 2011 6:24 AM CDT up reply actions  

agreed...If its coming it can come now so we can stash Soriano there...

But if Quade is still around we will have him in LF anyways……

I REALLY hope Theo saw the managing in Boston last year when the Cubs were there…..

by TJ11 on Oct 26, 2011 11:58 AM CDT up reply actions  

Fielder is the one exception I see to the no big money off season.

He’s young enough that you see him as a building block. He won’t be available when they are one player away so get him when he is.

Nothing happens unless it's first a dream

by puckishcubsfan on Oct 26, 2011 6:21 AM CDT up reply actions  

And we aren't required to

give him an obscene amount of money. Offer him a reasonable salary for a six year stretch. If someone goes “all in” on him, Theo will find another way.

10-25-2011. Theo Epstein joins the Cubs. Now, the fun begins.

by timh815 on Oct 26, 2011 6:24 AM CDT up reply actions  

Is there a link to that????

The Stat Pack

by shoemile on Oct 21, 2011 10:10 PM CDT

by Madison Cub Fan on Oct 25, 2011 8:57 PM CDT up reply actions  

I only use my Cubs bottle opener after a Win

You know, the one with Chip Caray – “Swung on, hit high in the air, deep drive to left field!! Now that ball’s gone. Cubs win! Cubs win! Cubs win!”

I just used it for my dinner beer tonight.

"Just shut up and play" - Matt Garza

by RiskyBusiness on Oct 25, 2011 6:50 PM CDT reply actions  

jed hoyer

hell yeah!

THEOOOOOOOOO (and Hoyer)

by jesus christos on Oct 25, 2011 7:29 PM CDT up reply actions  

And McLeod

I'm a Cubs fan. The Jaded Bitterness comes as a Standard Feature.

by timh815 on Oct 25, 2011 7:30 PM CDT up reply actions  

And Columbo...

…and McMillan & wife.

And of course, Banacek.

Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."

by ballhawk on Oct 25, 2011 11:55 PM CDT up reply actions  

don't forget Ellery Queen

I'm going to the 2012 Randy Hundley Fantasy Camp!!! Who's with me?

by VegasCubFan on Oct 26, 2011 12:46 AM CDT up reply actions  

Is there a spot for

Jessica Fletcher?

Though I would prefer Hannibal and his crew to Banacek. Just keep Mr. T out of Lake Forest.

by ddoubleheader on Oct 26, 2011 1:46 AM CDT up reply actions  

When is

Epstein going to trade the black slime from Wrigley’s ice machines? Which team would get it? What will the Cubs get in return for it?

by ddoubleheader on Oct 26, 2011 1:47 AM CDT up reply actions  

I'm busy getting ready for a Halloween Party...

I just wanted to pop in, read some posts and assess… I cannot explain how very nice it is to see actual excitement on BCB (and this time, IMHO, well-founded excitement…not our spring 2011 “Lets Go Cubs”!). We should, I suspect, be very, very happy. /crosses fingers/

There are no facts, only interpretations.
Friedrich Nietzsche
Lets Go Theo!!! 10/13/2011

by jeffstorm2 on Oct 25, 2011 7:53 PM CDT reply actions  

are you going as a happy cub fan

The Stat Pack

by shoemile on Oct 21, 2011 10:10 PM CDT

by Madison Cub Fan on Oct 25, 2011 9:09 PM CDT up reply actions  

Haha Madison...no

’fraid I already had costume planned… :] Nice to see you.

There are no facts, only interpretations.
Friedrich Nietzsche
Lets Go Theo!!! 10/13/2011

by jeffstorm2 on Oct 25, 2011 9:13 PM CDT up reply actions  

going home next week for 3 days (including wednesday)

Haven’t seen any since season opener.

The Stat Pack

by shoemile on Oct 21, 2011 10:10 PM CDT

by Madison Cub Fan on Oct 25, 2011 9:15 PM CDT up reply actions  

Enjoy the trip home!

Bed time for me…nite.

There are no facts, only interpretations.
Friedrich Nietzsche
Lets Go Theo!!! 10/13/2011

by jeffstorm2 on Oct 25, 2011 9:18 PM CDT up reply actions  

Overall, reading between the lines, what I came away from today's new's conference and CTL interview was

1) Theo is pretty open-minded regarding Zambrano, recognizes Zambrano’s value and the Cubs need for starting pitching, while wanting to also get to know Zambrano better to see if keeping him is better than getting rid of him

2) That ARam is not the kind of player he’ll be looking to sign, unless he’s “paying for future production” in which case a 2-3 year / $30M deal for ARam might be doable, but don’t count on it.

3) Theo mentioned prime years of 26-27 and 31-32 at least twice today while also mentioning paying for future production on the FA market, so Fielder being 27 seems to be in line with his current FA strategy at least on a 5-6 year deal (maybe 1-2 option years to get the deal done).

4) Brian LaHair will likely get every chance to prove that he is more than the 4A player that most Cubs fans think he is

5) I don’t believe Quade’s fate is sealed, but Quade is going to have to sell Theo a new vision big time, because Theo mentioned he needing to discuss some things with Quade about last season. My interpretation of this was that Theo recognized lots of instances where it looked like Quade had lost the team. I’m leaning towards Theo getting rid of Quade, but I’d say there’s a 70% chance Quade is gone.

I was disappointed that no one asked about Soriano, but I think he made veiled references to Soriano when he mentioned that good organizations know when and when not to eat salary, lots of other things I wish I would have heard, but that will all be addressed in the next 6 months.

Still I’m very excited to have such an intelligent baseball mind to head the organization whose 1st order of business has been to hire 2 other intelligent baseball minds. The Cubs need a lot more of those throughout the organization

by magicblue on Oct 25, 2011 7:54 PM CDT reply actions  

We shall see

is Epstein has a strong enough will to resist the beguiling pixie dust magic of Quade.

by ddoubleheader on Oct 26, 2011 1:49 AM CDT up reply actions  

is= if

(every topic I post in must have at least 1 typo on my part)

by ddoubleheader on Oct 26, 2011 1:50 AM CDT up reply actions  

Quade discussion:

TE: Are you going to keep making the kind of crazy moves you did in 2011?
MQ: What crazy moves? All of those were sound decisions, not mistakes.
TE: Bye.

by ClarkFan on Oct 26, 2011 9:37 AM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

How was I to know

a game could go 10 or 11 innings?

10-25-2011. Theo Epstein joins the Cubs. Now, the fun begins.

by timh815 on Oct 26, 2011 9:40 AM CDT up reply actions  

The one thing

NO ONE ASKED was about how this team would beat the Cards!

The similarities with Yankees/Red Sox, being the fiercest AL rivalry, vs. the Cubs/Red Sox in the NL, is so compelling.

I wished one reporter would have asked about it.

I remember when Lovie Smith had his first press conference when he said, “We WILL beat the Packers.”

Just hearing it mad me think, “he gets it”

by The E-Man on Oct 25, 2011 8:40 PM CDT reply actions  

He answered it

By out-drafting them, out-developing them, out-executing them, out-scouting them, out-working them, etc.

I'm a Cubs fan. The Jaded Bitterness comes as a Standard Feature.

by timh815 on Oct 25, 2011 8:44 PM CDT up reply actions  

We've already won

they have to live in St. Louis. There aren’t enough World Series in the world to compensate for that.

by uptowncub on Oct 25, 2011 10:23 PM CDT up reply actions  

Weirdly Theo said “WE will beat the Packers!” sorry couldn’t resist.

Anyone confirm he was at the Hawks game last night?

Nothing happens unless it's first a dream

by puckishcubsfan on Oct 26, 2011 6:06 AM CDT up reply actions  

The Cubs don't have a rivalry that is even close to the obsessive Yanks-Sox one-upmanship

And that is a good thing. Led both teams to make moves that did not make much sense.

by ClarkFan on Oct 26, 2011 9:39 AM CDT up reply actions  

As Cubs fans we tend to be optimistic even at times blindly optimistic...

But the optimism felt today is palpable and real. It goes beyond just “hope”. There is genuine excitement here and across the country that this organization has taken the first step towards building, not rebuilding, a championship team. I like Theo’s approach. It sounds to me like there is going to be a true change of culture here and the past is in the past once and for good. Someone once said that the problem with living in the past is that there’s no future in it. Today I think that we as Cubs fans finally have some genuine, well-deserved optimism for the future because the best is yet to come.

by jeffmills1972 on Oct 25, 2011 8:59 PM CDT reply actions  

Agreed.

I wanted Hendry gone for years. Getting Epstein is even more than I could have expected. At least now I have hope which I lost with Hendry. Now the Hendry defenders can see why so many wanted him gone for so long.

No more good old boy network. No more drafting players from colleges where you know the head coach. No more rewarding players for past accomplishments. No more building a team of free swinging hackers. No more ignoring defense. No more overpaying for bench players and crappy left handed relievers. No more wasting the highest payroll in the division.

No more typing the name of Jim Hendry. I’m officially done with him.

John Grabow - Who will pay you $4.8 million in 2012?

by rlpete on Oct 25, 2011 9:08 PM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

Hear, Hear!

There are no facts, only interpretations.
Friedrich Nietzsche
Lets Go Theo!!! 10/13/2011

by jeffstorm2 on Oct 25, 2011 9:09 PM CDT up reply actions  

Well said.

Theo! Good job, Tommy Boy!

by shoemile on Oct 25, 2011 9:41 PM CDT up reply actions  

Theo's big theme was "we all have to do this together."

Maybe there were some of us that thought Dusty or Lou would come in and be “the guy” to take the Cubs to the promised land. Clearly, the message is everyone in the organization needs to pull their weight. Theo said all the right things today, but more than that he clearly has a vision for how to make the Cubs a competitive team year after year after year. Is 2012 too early to expect a 180 degree turnaround? Not for me. The future starts today. Let’s do this!

Get 'em on, Get 'em over, Get 'em in!

by DKT on Oct 25, 2011 9:04 PM CDT reply actions  

One nice thing he didn't do,

was put it on the fans. He put it on the scouts, the players, the coaches, the instructors, and the like.

I'm a Cubs fan. The Jaded Bitterness comes as a Standard Feature.

by timh815 on Oct 25, 2011 9:06 PM CDT up reply actions  

Happy Birthday!!!!

Believe or Leave ~Cubswynn 9/9/2008

by slcathena on Oct 26, 2011 12:55 AM CDT up reply actions  

You need to have more birthdays! Have a happy one.

If the Cubs still have a chance, no matter how small, it’s still Go Cubs, damn the math and pass the KoolAid.

by eths on Oct 26, 2011 2:21 AM CDT up reply actions  

Does his wife know that?

The Stat Pack

by shoemile on Oct 21, 2011 10:10 PM CDT

by Madison Cub Fan on Oct 26, 2011 8:33 AM CDT up reply actions  

MacPhail/Epstein

I’ve heard some rumblings the last few days about this being MacPhail all over again.

The difference is not only being Epstein and MacPhail but Hoyer over Lynch in my opinion.

Okay I’m officially the world’s biggest dork. I got teary eyed listening to the press conference yesterday.

Nothing happens unless it's first a dream

by puckishcubsfan on Oct 26, 2011 6:05 AM CDT reply actions  

I don't seem to remember

MacPhail putting a person in charge beneath him who was committed to the latest scouting techniques.

Or, the Tribune committing to spending heavily on the draft.

It might not work. But if it doesn’t, it would be for a different reason.

10-25-2011. Theo Epstein joins the Cubs. Now, the fun begins.

by timh815 on Oct 26, 2011 6:09 AM CDT up reply actions  

There are parallels

and I raised some initial concern. That said, the big differences are, first, that there is now a team owner who isn’t a corporation. When MacPhail came on as President, he was, more or less, the defacto face of team ownership. He had much involvement with ownership issues that Ricketts now takes care of. MacPhail was also given responsibilities on his plate that Epstein seemingly won’t be (stadium issues, community issues, etc). They are bringing in a guy in Hoyer who is no Ed Lynch. Had MacPhail hired a GM with a brain, things may have turned out differently.

The bottom line is that MacPhail had the roles of both Epstein and Kenney, along with some of Ricketts’ stuff, and ultimately he was unable to focus on the baseball operations.

by dmlichte on Oct 26, 2011 10:17 AM CDT up reply actions  

Agree with the idea that MacPhail might have been spread too thin

Still, though, does that explain MacPhail’s maintaining a self-imposed salary cap and his reluctance to expand the size of the front office?

by EalyEagle on Oct 26, 2011 2:37 PM CDT up reply actions  

From what I understood...

… Tribune bosses put those limits on him, or more correctly, MacPhail thought he would please his bosses by being cheap.

Join us for complete MLB coverage at SB Nation's Baseball Nation

by Al Yellon on Oct 26, 2011 2:54 PM CDT up reply actions  

I’m also glad some people are being held over at least one season. I want people who know our system inside and out here for at least a year while Epstein/Hoyer take over.

Also will help avoid a collosal mistake in trading a lesser known prospect that maybe a diamond in the rough that maybe someone in the system is high on but Epstein/Hoyer overlook not knowing them yet if that makes sense.

Nothing happens unless it's first a dream

by puckishcubsfan on Oct 26, 2011 6:09 AM CDT reply actions  

To listen to some people around here,

you would think all our scouts/coaches are deliberately incompetent. I don’t think that’s the case.

My HS football team routinely had less than 30 players. We played squads with 50 plus players. We usually lost. The number crunch wasn’t the reason we lost, but it didn’t help practices or morale.

10-25-2011. Theo Epstein joins the Cubs. Now, the fun begins.

by timh815 on Oct 26, 2011 6:15 AM CDT up reply actions  

A little surprised

I’m a little surprised there wasn’t at least one player there. I heard someone say they thought they saw Wood there but I didn’t see him.

I had to disappoint some friends when I reminded them Theo is married. I can’t believe I have a mad crush on the Cubs Team President.

It also made me feel old. The President of the Cubs and Northwestern’s head coach are both 5 years younger than me. And the starting SS is half my age.

Nothing happens unless it's first a dream

by puckishcubsfan on Oct 26, 2011 6:19 AM CDT reply actions   1 recs

Him and I are the same age

But the crush is only from afar. I can’t imagine what it must be liked married to someone like him.

The Stat Pack

by shoemile on Oct 21, 2011 10:10 PM CDT

by Madison Cub Fan on Oct 26, 2011 8:40 AM CDT up reply actions  

Was just watching Theo on that CSN clip in the fanshots.

Wow. I’m so impressed. Theo was totally speaking my language. If I didn’t already have the best husband in the world, I would have a crush on him too. Actually, he reminds me a lot of my husband (who is a finance guy). Maybe that’s why I like him so much.

Oh and to those who laughed at people applauding after Moneyball, I just wanted to confess I did actually applaud several things he said at the press conference while I watched it.

Dear Great Pumpkin, I am looking forward to your arrival on Halloween Night. I hope you will bring me lots of presents.

by katie casey on Oct 26, 2011 9:30 AM CDT up reply actions  

Great day indeed.

Watched the presser and was really thrilled. Finally someone with a clue. The instant gratification of back-loaded contracts , No trade clauses are over. I am excited for this Cub franchise for the first time since Dallas Green came on board.
 I soured on Hendry for the last 3 years. He brought winning baseball for a few years and playoff baseball. But his time and methods were done here. His biggest fault was not adjusting when others around him did.

Good Luck Theo.

by Grockcubs on Oct 26, 2011 7:46 AM CDT reply actions  

Before you get carried away

many of the recent Boston signees have some sort of no-trade clause. Add in the 10-5 rules and no-trade clauses are still around. One thing Epstein didn’t do in Boston is make a lot of heavy backloaded deals.

John Grabow - Who will pay you $4.8 million in 2012?

by rlpete on Oct 26, 2011 8:06 AM CDT up reply actions  

I am totally thrilled with this hire......I give Ricketts rare (from me) props for this. I like the direction we are headed in.

BUT….I just cant drink the kool aid until there is a new coaching staff in place.

So I am in limbo….

by TJ11 on Oct 26, 2011 8:40 AM CDT reply actions  

For years I've wanted the Cubs to raid the front offices

of some of the best organizations in baseball and hire the best in the biz from top to bottom.

It’s finally happened!

"You win because of the quarterback. We have to get that position stabilized. We're fixated on that." -- Jerry Angelo (12.30.2008)

Jerry Angelo trades for Jay Cutler! (4.2.2009)

by SackMan on Oct 26, 2011 8:48 AM CDT reply actions  

Close to

500 posts, so excuse me if i have repeated. What I like most is Theo seems to be genuine and selfless. He has a formula and the the resources to make this work. Like others I am very confident that in due process we will be heading in the right direction.

Cubs 2011 59-103

by wild bill on Oct 26, 2011 9:00 AM CDT reply actions  

Bitter

I did not hear the press conference, only select portions of it played on the radio afterward. Having not really heard much of Theo, I was impressed with him in what I heard.

by DrCrawdad on Oct 26, 2011 9:30 AM CDT up reply actions  

“Having not really heard much of Theo before this press conference, I was impressed with him in what I heard.

by DrCrawdad on Oct 26, 2011 9:31 AM CDT up reply actions  

A new era of Cubs baseball has begun!

I’m very impressed with Theo’s philosophy of how to run a baseball team, and the new ideas he will bring to our team. I finally feel confident in the direction this team is going to take.

The best thing Theo said yesterday, was that he wanted to build a foundation of “sustainability” into the Cubs’ process. I feel this is absolutely the kind of right thinking that will keep the Cubs franchise successful for many, many years, and will ultimately give us a better chance of winning the World Series some year.

Hopefully, Theo instills the attitude that just being over .500 is NOT a successful season, but making the playoffs every year should be the normal expectation, with the goal of advancing farther each year. Eventually we can then adopt the attitude of the Yankees, that a successful season does not mean “just making the playoffs”, but actually “winning the World Series”!

The future is bright in Cub land again!

If you think you've seen it all...just wait!

by CubFanSince1970 on Oct 26, 2011 10:06 AM CDT reply actions  

I'm getting nervous

Theo’s been in charge for over a day.

Z hasn’t been traded for a promising prospect.

He hasn’t drafted and developed a 6-time All Star starter yet.

We haven’t hosted an NLCS game yet.

Bring back John Holland already.

Overstated for effect.

10-25-2011. Theo Epstein joins the Cubs. Now, the fun begins.

by timh815 on Oct 26, 2011 1:18 PM CDT reply actions  

Bring back John Holland Salty Saltwell already.

Fixed that for you.

Join us for complete MLB coverage at SB Nation's Baseball Nation

by Al Yellon on Oct 26, 2011 2:37 PM CDT up reply actions  

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