So Long, Aramis Ramirez, And Thanks For The Memories
by Al Yellon on Oct 31, 2011 8:01 AM CDT
in Chicago Cubs News
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The expected has occurred; the Cubs exercised the $16 million option on Aramis Ramirez's contract for 2012, but Ramirez declined the option:
However, a source said Ramirez has told the Cubs he will decline the option and explore free agency. If Ramirez does that, the Cubs will not have to pay him the $2 million buyout.
Ramirez, 33, has said he would stay with the Cubs if they gave him a multiyear deal. His last contract with the team was a five-year, $75 million package, which he signed in 2007, that included a $14.6 million player option for '11 and a mutual option for the '12 season.
I suppose it's possible that the Cubs and Ramirez could come to an agreement on some sort of multiyear deal that would satisfy both parties (to me, that would be no more than two years with a club option for a third), but it seems likely that the Cubs will begin 2012 with a different starting 3B than Ramirez for the first time since 2003, and get draft pick compensation when he signs with another team.
You probably remember the game in which Ramirez hit a walkoff home run against the Brewers on June 29, 2007; that's the one depicted in the photo at the top of this post. It was an incredible comeback after going down 5-0 to the then-first place Brewers and, though still three months from the end of the season, it helped keep the Cubs hot and eventually, they overcame the deficit and won the NL Central.
It was also one of the signature moments, if not the signature moment in Ramirez's career. Complain all you want about him -- and many here still do -- he was an offensive force in the middle of the Cubs' lineup for the better part of a decade. If, indeed, he departs for another team (the Marlins have been rumored to be interested), he leaves the Cubs having hit .294/.356/.531 over eight-plus seasons. The .531 SLG is third on the all-time team list, behind only Hack Wilson and Sammy Sosa; the .887 OPS is fifth, behind Wilson, Sosa, Ray Grimes (yeah, I also said, "Who?") and Derrek Lee. He hit 239 home runs as a Cub, sixth on the team list (Sosa, Ernie Banks, Billy Williams, Ron Santo and Ryne Sandberg are ahead of him).
It will be difficult to replace that kind of production. Personally, I think I'd take him back, if he would agree to that kind of two-year-with-a-team-option contract at somewhat less than the $16 million he was due to make.
If he doesn't want that, then, as the headline says... thanks for the memories, Aramis, and we move on.
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Start the revolving door!!
at 3B again…gonna have dropoff in production for sure how we gonna replace that? I’m Ok with the move though Ramirez’ slow starts the last 2 yrs. killed us. he’s still a good player tho wish him well.
No... having no one else on the team to help cover Ramirez's lack of power in April killed us.
The bad 2010 is NOT on Ramirez. He didn’t hit for power the first month and a half, but he was hitting for average and still getting on base close to career norms. The whole ’he’s only a 2nd half player’ is completely blown out of proportion around here.
His RBI was also WAY down at this time despite having Castro and a hot Barney on in front of him.....
He got his stats in garbage time…….
Try to open your eyes.
You're assuming a lot by using RBI as an indicator of performance....
Fact is, Ramirez has a strong average and decent on base % for the entire year, and a very strong slugging from the middle of May through the end of the year.
You can claim whatever you want about lower RBIs, but the stats don’t lie… RBIs are a team stat and for the most part are completely out of Ramirez’s control.
When people are on base in front of you and they dont score it is in his control....
See also Marlon Byrd
Because everyone in front of you is always in scoring position and able to score on any hit anywhere in the park?
Got it.
Also, comparing Ramirez to Byrd is ridiculous. The only similarity is their first pitch swinging, however Ramirez had about 13 HRs on first pitches while Byrd… didn’t.
What stupid comments, TJ. You should at least comment on things that aren't able to be looked up and prove you wrong.
With runners in scoring position in 2011 Ramirez was:
- More likely to walk than strike out (11.6%BB vs 11%K)
- Hit .278/.354/.517/.871
- Had a .359 wOBA
- Had a .238 ISO
- Managed all of this with only a .254 BABIP
If you just want to admit you don’t like him because you feel like not liking him, that’s fine. I’m not going to try and tell you who to like on this team or not. But to claim things like you are as fact is just stupid and childish.
by bdlugz on Oct 31, 2011 11:55 AM CDT up reply actions 4 recs
Amazingly no RBI stats....I guess that didnt fit....
The name of the game is scoring runs…..He didnt help thm do that much until they were WAY out of it…..
nice try….
RBI are in not very indicative of a player's abilities.
"The riches of the game are in the thrills, not the money." --Ernie Banks
by dtpollitt on Oct 31, 2011 11:59 AM CDT up reply actions 4 recs
67 RBIs with RISP
I figured it didn’t mean anything as how many men scored while they were in scoring position is not any indication of Ramirez’s talent level. So if a guy is on 2nd and he hits a single up the middle and the runner slips rounding 3rd and can’t score is that Ramirez’s fault? You probably think so.
by bdlugz on Oct 31, 2011 12:01 PM CDT up reply actions 2 recs
Yes, TJ, because that was the point I was making.
He had 67 RBIs with runners on base. He also provided all of the stats I mentioned above, completely disproving the point you were attempting to make about him not being able to hit with RISP.
Try again, you lost.
by bdlugz on Oct 31, 2011 12:20 PM CDT up reply actions 2 recs
He had 13 more RBIs in the 2nd half than in the 1st half...
That’s hardly enough to back up your claim that he only plays well in the 2nd half.
I would also assume that this is an extremely common trend among EVERY major league player that plays home games in a cold weather city, as you’re more likely to hit and to hit for power when it is warm than when it is cold.
by bdlugz on Oct 31, 2011 12:26 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
You are right, at 16 million dollars a year, your 4th hitter should be excused for not driving runs in the first half....
It too cold!!!!!! BRRRRRRR!!!!!!
I am sure it happened to all teams with cold weather….wait it doesnt….
Did I say he was excused from driving in runs?
Didn’t I just prove that there’s almost no statistical difference beyond a normal deviation in his run production from the first half to the second half?
Give up TJ… seriously. You’re bordering on pathetic at this point.
No you didnt....anyone with a brain could see Aram let the team down the first two months last season....
But I guess its because of the cold…..
You are hilarious….
In your world were the Cubs good in April and May last season? I am sure they were with ARam driving in all those runs!
He's crossed the border on this argument
Which will earn me a kool-aid response, but whatever.
Step Two: Develop an organizational plan
by Shanghai Badger on Oct 31, 2011 1:22 PM CDT up reply actions
Block him (if you can)...
it makes BCB much more readable.
D98 mistaken, a hyperbole as in a funny or revisionism as in trying to make a new fact to confirm a prejudice
but Pujols was hurt some this season, and has better facial hair, and wears fancy white batting gloves...
/end TJ defense mode
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Oct 31, 2011 1:53 PM CDT up reply actions
Barney had a .313 obp this year.
It’s hardly like he was always on base
by Dcr18 on Oct 31, 2011 1:48 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
You forgot the fact
that he is not as good definisively as he was in the past.
Except the part where I said...
No, I’m not going to claim things that aren’t true.
He’s NOT a good defender and he certainly doesn’t hustle. I won’t be sad to see him go for $16M and get a compensation pick.
Right below. I know he’s not a good defender and have noted that many times before.
there are a lot of posters on here
that get their posting stats at garbage time as well.
by cozmotaylor123 on Oct 31, 2011 11:26 AM CDT up reply actions 4 recs
He had an .871 OPS with RISP this year.
He was not part of the problem when it came to stranding runners.
Aramis Ramirez did NOT hit for average in 2010's first month and a half.
He was hitting something like .160 through May.
MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown
I meant 2011...
He was injured during the beginning of 2010, which obviously was a major factor in that.
unless i'm reading fangrapsh wrong the splits show
that in march/april he hit .295 and May he hit .283
So i you can give you can take it.
Who gives a damn about the "Revolving door at 3b" I'm sick of hearing about it.
If your team is good you can plug a guy like Bill Mueller in at 3b and still win a World Series, just ask Mr. Epstein.
Guys, hitting is not about muscle. It's simple physics. Calculate the velocity, v, in relation to the trajectory, t, in which g, gravity, of course remains a constant.... It's not complicated. - George Costanza
by troutfishin on Oct 31, 2011 10:12 AM CDT up reply actions
saw this on espn.com
In essence, the first move by team president Theo Epstein will save the team $2 million on the buyout.
Can we get a counter right next to spring training too see how much money Theo’s saved us this off season?
So i you can give you can take it.
I don't think that's the most important thing.
It’s spending the money wisely that’s the key.
Join us for complete MLB coverage at SB Nation's Baseball Nation
by Al Yellon on Oct 31, 2011 8:06 AM CDT up reply actions 2 recs
doing one
allows you a better chance to do the other
follow me on twitter for fantasy sports analysis @http://twitter.com/DrewDinkmeyer or get the full analysis at www.fantistics.com
by DartmouthCubsFan on Oct 31, 2011 8:25 AM CDT up reply actions
If they can't find the offensive production from someone else that matches Ramirez...
I would hope they try going the other route and go with a average hitter with stellar defense. That said, it’s going to have to be Fielder or Pujols for sure to get some offense. Pena cannot cut it as the main RBI guy.
I wonder what Bill Mueller is up to these days,
"I'd rather hit home runs you don't have to run as hard." -- Dave Kingman
by BucknerKongCardenal on Oct 31, 2011 7:43 PM CDT up reply actions
I'll miss Aramis, but all things come to an end.
Aramis, Godspeed and good luck for your future. And thank you for the time as a Cub.
If the Cubs still have a chance, no matter how small, it’s still Go Cubs, damn the math and pass the KoolAid. I'm a Sheeple and proud of it!
by eths on Oct 31, 2011 8:08 AM CDT reply actions 22 recs
Well said.
Dear Great Pumpkin, I am looking forward to your arrival on Halloween Night. I hope you will bring me lots of presents.
ill miss him too
i was hoping to see another pop fly hit him in the noggin
by Mike the ex cub fan on Oct 31, 2011 9:23 AM CDT up reply actions
well said.
"Chicago baseball fans, who are composites of scar tissue and mortifying memories..." - George F. Will
Avatar provided courtesy of AndrewJStone.
Aramis was an above average third baseman for eight years.
Looks who was at third or the last 15 years before him?
Bill mueller
Ron Coomer
Willie Greene
Gary Gietti
Jose Hernandez
Kevin Orie
Leo Gomez
Todd Ziele
Steve Buechele (3 years)
Luis Salazar (2 years)
Vance Law (2 years)
Kieth Moreland
Aramis brought a good bat and consistency to a position the cubs had struggled with for nearly two decades.
AmRam. You will be missed.
by BrewCrew'sPrinceofDarkness on Oct 31, 2011 4:20 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
I'll go out on a limb...
and say that it will be nowhere near that long till we have a serviceable replacement, if not an equal or better…
I checked out Windy Cs yesterday
Hot dog was good – nice to actually get real giardenera (sp)
Only annoyance was the guy forgot the chili and cheese on my fries. But the important thing, the dog, was excellent.
"Hey.....Cubs win!!!" ---Harry
"Cubs win....what a lucky break!!" ---Harry
I didn't see this coming.
I thought there was a report last week that Aram was ready to come back?
We'll miss you Big Boy. #10 for Hall of Fame.
There was a report that said he was interested, yes.
But he does appear to want a multiyear deal, not just one more year on an existing contract. We’ll see.
Join us for complete MLB coverage at SB Nation's Baseball Nation
This should have been expected
Ramirez has been talking about looking for a new deal for a month or two.
He may still come back. It just won’t be on a one-year deal.
It was a long stretch
of unmemorable options at 3B between Santo and Ramirez. He’ll be missed in that regard. But, in every other way, it’s time to move on.
Bleacher Nation - Cubs Rumors and News
C'mon!!!!
VANCE LAW!!!!!
So i you can give you can take it.
by epsilon on Oct 31, 2011 8:16 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Kevin Orie!!!
"Whenever one finds himself in the majority, it is time to step back and reflect," Mark Twain.
by WindisBlowingOut! on Oct 31, 2011 8:20 AM CDT up reply actions
Luis Saladbar!!!
I mean Luis Salazar.
Check out the Video Blog I host: WebSmart TV
by digitalbenjamin on Oct 31, 2011 8:32 AM CDT up reply actions
Shane Andrews!
The guy hit a walk-off home run on my birthday on April 10th one year. Bring him back!
One day, the dream will come true.
LOL
As bad at 2011 was, nothing tops the stretch from June 1999 through the entire 2000 season as the worst Cubs team I’ve ever seen. Shane Andrews seemed to epitomize the suckitude of that era.
Agreed
But for one day on April 10th, 2000, Shane was a hero. I just looked it up. Turns out it wasn’t a walk-off, but the Cubs were down 3-0 vs. Atlanta going into the bottom of the ninth. Andrews did hit a 3-run HR to tie it and they pushed another one across later in the inning to win it. Made for a happy birthday for me that day.
I’ll miss Aramis, but hopefully we’ll find a good replacement…
One day, the dream will come true.
Willie Greene
How could you forget him?
I think I speak for everyone here when I say, "Wait, what the hell are you talking about?"
He was not only a switch hitter
but as I recall he was also a switch-chewer
We had Bill Madlock
and the Cubs traded him for Ontiveros because they thought he was uppity.
by Josh Timmers on Oct 31, 2011 12:22 PM CDT up reply actions
The Cubs had just as many serviceable 3B between Santo and Aramis, as they did 2B between Sandberg and today.
MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown
Bill Madlock
He was only with the Cubs for three seasons, so he wasn’t the long term solution for Santo. It’s a shame that the Cubs didn’t hold onto Madlock. The Cubs have messed up a couple of times in not keeping players nicknamed Mad Dog.
Good things come to those who wait... and wait....and wait.
What was wrong
with Bill Madlock? Was it the batting titles, or the ASG MVP?
10-25-2011. Theo Epstein joins the Cubs. Now, the fun begins.
Madlock was traded by Cub's GM Salty Saltwell.
Salty also traded a young Andre Thornton to the Expos for Larry Biittner and Steve Renko. Madlock and Thornton could have anchored the Cub infield for years.
A lot of damage done by a short term GM.
For those who don’t recall “The Salty Saltwell Story”:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salty_Saltwell
Winner winner.
At least he was loyal. But why did they bring him back in the 80’s?
by BrewCrew'sPrinceofDarkness on Oct 31, 2011 11:37 PM CDT up reply actions
Madlock committed the "crime" of being an opinionated black man who wanted to get paid
like someone who had won batting titles and an ASG MVP. Unfortunately, his boss was William Wrigley who wished every black player acted like Ernie Banks.
by the nth on Oct 31, 2011 9:03 AM CDT up reply actions 5 recs
P.K. Wrigley, actually, but...
…your point is correct. And then they traded him for Bobby Murcer and gave HIM the money that Madlock wanted.
by bluekoolaide on Oct 31, 2011 9:42 AM CDT up reply actions
Actually, they gave Murcer MORE money than Madlock asked for.
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He was uppity
That’s how bad the Cubs were back then.
by Josh Timmers on Oct 31, 2011 12:23 PM CDT up reply actions
Yeah, but to be fair, blacks didn't need as much money as whites...
…at least that’s what Curt Flood said an obviously white GM once told him.
by bluekoolaide on Oct 31, 2011 1:44 PM CDT up reply actions
All of these posts about 3B
And nobody mentions the great Bill Mueller? What is wrong with you people?
They have two liter bottles now? To think I spent all that time demanding a liter!
He has not done anything the last two years until the Cubs were out of it.
Also an indifferent fielder and a non hustler.
There is no way with his age and nagging injuries that I would give him 16 million.
by TJ11 on Oct 31, 2011 8:13 AM CDT reply actions 1 recs
This argument about him not doing anything until the Cubs are out of it is stale and factually incorrect...
by bdlugz on Oct 31, 2011 9:24 AM CDT up reply actions 8 recs
No, I'm not going to claim things that aren't true.
He’s NOT a good defender and he certainly doesn’t hustle. I won’t be sad to see him go for $16M and get a compensation pick.
However to claim that he only gets stats in garbage time is simply incorrect. It’s not difficult to figure that out, but you’re so blinded by hatred for certain players and a certain manager that you are completely incapable of finding the good in them at all. It’s entirely possible to dislike someone and still recognize the things they do well. I have no idea why you find it so difficult.
Also, claiming that anyone that doesn’t think a guy is a useless pile of crap is drinking Kool Aid is getting so supremely stupid. Your blanket statements are topped only by your stubbornness and lack of ability to admit you’re incorrect on something. Congratulations.
by bdlugz on Oct 31, 2011 9:56 AM CDT up reply actions 14 recs
You don't understand
TJ has to be negative. He’ll be on Epstein within a month if not sooner, don’t worry. He’s already complaining that Quade isn’t hanging from the foul pole for everyone to see.
Ramirez like many other players, has his best months once the weather heats up. The fact that the Cubs have usually been out it by the summer is not his fault. The argument that somehow Ramirez doesn’t try until August and September when the Cubs are out of it is idiotic. Not that it won’t stop people from raising it.
John Grabow - Who will pay you $4.8 million in 2012?
Yep, you are both right!!!!
Aram not doing anything the first 2 months of a season doesnt mean anything…
Aram is a great ballplayer and should be paid for what he did 5 years ago (not in the playoffs, of course)
An excellent fielder, an awesome baserunner (I dont think anybody except Soriano bust s his ass more on this team!) and a clutch hitter from the start of the seson to the very end! You know you are always going to get 100% effort from him!
We should be offering him 20 million a year to stay!
Why is everything black and white with you?
Did anyone say that? No. I said I think it is time for him to go. However, I can look at the positives and negatives and make a rational judgement.
John Grabow - Who will pay you $4.8 million in 2012?
The fact that you don't read anything that people actually write is getting old.
It must be extremely obnoxious to be so bad at arguing that you need to resort to the same tactics my 5 year old son uses in order to feel like you’ve succeeded.
by bdlugz on Oct 31, 2011 10:28 AM CDT up reply actions 7 recs
Hilarious to all three of you
The Cubs are better off without ARam……Its too bad you cant see it….
But whatever….Maybe Quade will come back and that will make you happy
quoting BD...
I won’t be sad to see him go
TJ, .Argue all you want, the guy has an upside and he’s a fairly decent ball player.
So i you can give you can take it.
He is decent but not as good as some people are saying....and nowhere near worth that kind of money.
Can you point to someone who has overrated him in this thread?
You really have become the anti-NBF
Despite knowing a good bit about baseball, neither one of you ever come off as anything other than jerkoffs who want to belittle people more than actually discuss issues.
by Nunyabidness on Oct 31, 2011 11:29 AM CDT up reply actions
I get tired of people putting players on a pedestal all the time.
See the whole picture.
My hope is that Theo can handle this. I believe he will.
There will be many changes and the posters who are stuck on some of these players are not going to like it much.
its a sports franchise!
we love our team but we idolize our heroes. growing up you didnt have favorites? i dont know how old you are, but when i was a kid i always wore #17… because i put mark grace on a pedestal and the day he became a diamondback was one of the saddest days in my life….and i knew about all of his flaws.
aramis is somebody’s Mark Grace…but no one on here has said anything like that…no one is even really opposing the decision. your blind hatred is skewing your reality. and you’re getting called on it and it’s bringing the kool-aid talk defense out which isnt appropriate to this discussion.
So i you can give you can take it.
Haha... this.
Even in defending him against TJ’s ridiculous accusations I’ve stated multiple times it is in fact time for the Cubs and Ramirez to part ways. He’s apparently unable to figure out that you can appreciate the good in players while still recognizing their flaws and realize when it is time to split.
Could you find someone in this thread who is putting Aram "on a pedestal"
by Nunyabidness on Oct 31, 2011 12:05 PM CDT up reply actions
No one did.
Facts just get in the way of exclamation points.
John Grabow - Who will pay you $4.8 million in 2012?
You're tired of people putting players on a pedestal?
Play LaHair!!!!!
Play Campana!!!!!!
The Kids!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
How about you look in the mirror.
by kklife12 on Oct 31, 2011 5:06 PM CDT up reply actions 6 recs
ricketts approves!!!
THEOOOOOOOOO (and Hoyer)
by jesus christos on Nov 1, 2011 9:59 PM CDT up reply actions
What are you talking about?
You aren’t even reading posts any longer. I specifically said it is time he left.
Keep repeating your kool-aid comments. They add so much to the conversation. Don’t forget the exclamation points too. That makes them so much better!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
John Grabow - Who will pay you $4.8 million in 2012?
Did he hustle all the time? The answer is no!!!!
The guy was a dog, interested in offensive stats. How many double did he fail to turn because of his inability to get the ball out of his glove.
If all you look at is offensive numbers, then I question your overall baseball acumen.
TJ is right!!
Guys, hitting is not about muscle. It's simple physics. Calculate the velocity, v, in relation to the trajectory, t, in which g, gravity, of course remains a constant.... It's not complicated. - George Costanza
by troutfishin on Oct 31, 2011 10:15 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Umm, what?
The only thing I was debating was his offensive stats because I agree he isn’t good defensively. Confused here….
What exactly are we arguing about then
It seems you’re playing devils advocate to simply make your point. It’s a good thing that Ramirez will no longer be a Cub, time to do away with the old guard, because they simply didn’t help. I’m sure Epstein has a plan.
Guys, hitting is not about muscle. It's simple physics. Calculate the velocity, v, in relation to the trajectory, t, in which g, gravity, of course remains a constant.... It's not complicated. - George Costanza
by troutfishin on Oct 31, 2011 11:09 AM CDT up reply actions
I wasn't arguing with you I don't think??
I’m not playing devils advocate at all. I’m saying I think it’s time for Ramirez to move on. I’m saying I don’t think he was very good defensively and certainly didn’t give 100% all the time. I’m also saying that he is not a mediocre hitter who got his numbers in garbage time. That’s all.
One final thought....and I see that you and I are agreeing on this
Regardless of someones perceived misconception regarding Ramirez, it’s a very good thing he is on his way out. It’s the type of players like Ram that have plagued this organization for years. I would trade 5 -10 hr’s and 20 – 30 rbis. for a guy that plays his ass off and makes the plays that have to be made.
Guys, hitting is not about muscle. It's simple physics. Calculate the velocity, v, in relation to the trajectory, t, in which g, gravity, of course remains a constant.... It's not complicated. - George Costanza
by troutfishin on Oct 31, 2011 11:46 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
And your team...
would be worse as a result.
D98 mistaken, a hyperbole as in a funny or revisionism as in trying to make a new fact to confirm a prejudice
I would agree with you if Ramirez were to be the only loss...
…or addition. He is crap defensively, he probably lost more games on balls that he couldn’t field or double plays that he couldn’t turn, than he won with his bat.
Guys, hitting is not about muscle. It's simple physics. Calculate the velocity, v, in relation to the trajectory, t, in which g, gravity, of course remains a constant.... It's not complicated. - George Costanza
Not even close.
You Ramirez haters will really try to come up with anything won’t you?
Ramirez hater? No absolutely not
I’m just someone that knows a little bit about the game of baseball.
Guys, hitting is not about muscle. It's simple physics. Calculate the velocity, v, in relation to the trajectory, t, in which g, gravity, of course remains a constant.... It's not complicated. - George Costanza
Please explain
I would like for you to tell me how one of the worst defensive third baseman, has a difficult time compiling more than 300 tc’s and has turned no more than 20 dp’s once in his career, is so valuable.
Look at his metrics defensively, the guy is a nightmare in the field.
Guys, hitting is not about muscle. It's simple physics. Calculate the velocity, v, in relation to the trajectory, t, in which g, gravity, of course remains a constant.... It's not complicated. - George Costanza
Look at his overall metrics...
and you’ll see his value on offense outweighs his defensive liabilities. WAR takes that into effect.
D98 mistaken, a hyperbole as in a funny or revisionism as in trying to make a new fact to confirm a prejudice
dWAR is flawed
The metrics standard is flawed. Part of the problem is that it only takes into account TC’s, not the amount of balls that Ramirez wasn’t able to get to that didn’t account for errors. If you look at Ramirez’s career defensive stats, he should be at the same level of most MLB third baseman which would be around 350 or more TC’s. dWAR does not take into account a range factor.
If you look at the numbers of Alberto Callaspo with the Angels, he posted a +4 WAR last year. His power numbers and production do not compare to ARAM but yet he posted a WAR above Aram’s and Callaspo made I believe 1.5 million last season.
I’m using Callaspo as an example because he would be the prototypical moneyball player. You do not have to put up gaudy numbers offensively especially if your defense is as good as Callaspo’s.
So, without being able to know exactly how many ground balls or line drives Aram failed to get to or how many double plays he had an opportunity to turn only to get a force out, how many games did he cost the Cubs defensively. Again, I would be dollars to doughnuts that is was more than he won with his bat.
Guys, hitting is not about muscle. It's simple physics. Calculate the velocity, v, in relation to the trajectory, t, in which g, gravity, of course remains a constant.... It's not complicated. - George Costanza
I'll trust flawed defensive metrics...
over your eye test.
D98 mistaken, a hyperbole as in a funny or revisionism as in trying to make a new fact to confirm a prejudice
Fantastic argument
Zone ratings only take into account what balls that individual fielder can get to. With Ramirez’s limited range it’s not much.
Guys, hitting is not about muscle. It's simple physics. Calculate the velocity, v, in relation to the trajectory, t, in which g, gravity, of course remains a constant.... It's not complicated. - George Costanza
Ramirez's range factor is bad...
He averaged 2.06 vs a league average of 2.53, but his career average is 2.47.
He’s below average defensively with his arm and with his range, but he’s nowhere near as bad as you’re making him out to be.
You really are clueless now.
I’ve been against a lot on this team for many years. I was probably one of the earliest anti-Hendry people here. If you want to have a reasonable discussion without falling back to your tired Kool-Aid glasses comment then let me know.
John Grabow - Who will pay you $4.8 million in 2012?
Well TJ, you got your wish...
…now we can get a 3B who hustles his ass off and hits .260 with 8 HRs and 45 RBIs. Gotta be a hustler tho. Blake DeWitt bobbleheads for everyone!!!
"Keep looking into the past and you'll keep repeating the past" - Some Smart Guy
He'll look real good playing 3B for the Brewers next year...
…maybe we can get Casey McGahee back?
"Keep looking into the past and you'll keep repeating the past" - Some Smart Guy
Wow!! Puff, puff, pass!
"Keep looking into the past and you'll keep repeating the past" - Some Smart Guy
You really are digging yourself a nice big, deep hole with these irrational arguementa and positions.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Oct 31, 2011 2:00 PM CDT up reply actions
WHEN THE FUCK DID ANYONE SAY THAT?!?!? Let alone "all of us"?
Jesus Christ, I’m starting to think you and Bruce are one person and you’re just a massive troll.
by Nunyabidness on Oct 31, 2011 2:31 PM CDT up reply actions 7 recs
What did Aramis get this team?
He’s a handicap in the field, nothing more needs to be said. Again people here like to romanticize players solely based on their offensive numbers. Aramis isn’t a baseball player, he’s a hitter, the Cubs need baseball players.
Guys, hitting is not about muscle. It's simple physics. Calculate the velocity, v, in relation to the trajectory, t, in which g, gravity, of course remains a constant.... It's not complicated. - George Costanza
Also this is unrelated.....But in the SunTimes...It is being reported that Theo is going to talk to Quade a second time this week.
People on here were saying he was talking to him to show that we are a classy team….
Ok got it…..
Why would this take more than one meeting?
frequent flyer miles? Florida is warmer than Chicago, "business" Vacation excuse,Theo likes fishing,he and dwayne wade are buddies,he's going to be on CSI: miami
just some plausible scenarios.
So i you can give you can take it.
Maybe Quade Will Get Offered Another Position in Organization
That’s the only thing I can figure. Would Quade accept another position in the organization? I would think not, but I believe Theo is trying to be “classy”. Could that have accomplished in one meeting? Yes, but maybe Theo has more specific information to discuss with Quade this time around. I’d like to see Quade stay with the organization but not as the manager of the Chicago Cubs.
Good things come to those who wait... and wait....and wait.
hell yea i went to HS with him
he donated our school a brand new gym and put our school in a Converse commercial. We now have a whole wing near our gym dedicated to him..im pretty sure if i saw him again i would be friends with him
I think your right...
…that they will offer Quade something.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
Or maybe Theo is looking to keep
a coaching seat warm for a season till his candidate of choice is ready to take the job. Just sayin’.
by Damen Jackson on Oct 31, 2011 11:22 AM CDT up reply actions
Theo has 5 years..
why waste 1 of them
by cozmotaylor123 on Oct 31, 2011 11:24 AM CDT up reply actions
Waste is a hazy word...
Mostly due to not having an idea of what the baseline expectations are for 2012. I’ll say though that with most five-year plans, Quade would be acceptable (although certainly not preferable) solution in the very short term.
Just a thought.
by Damen Jackson on Oct 31, 2011 11:28 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
I've got to admit that this second meeting has me a bit nervous
But the article I read said that Quade will find out his fate in this meeting. So either way we should know soon.
by Nunyabidness on Oct 31, 2011 8:22 AM CDT up reply actions
You didn't think they would fire him over the phone did you?
We'll miss you Big Boy. #10 for Hall of Fame.
I'm thinking Theo offered him another position and Quade needed a couple days to think it over...
maybe he offered him a couple different options, other than the managers job of course.
"Well-behaved women seldom make History"---Laurel Thatcher Ulrich
by cooliogirl47 on Oct 31, 2011 8:50 AM CDT up reply actions
I understand your nervousness but
this could be the meeting to tell him he is fired.
John Grabow - Who will pay you $4.8 million in 2012?
As much as I agree that Quade is not the best manager for the Cubs,
I don’t understand the impatient feeding frenzy that he gets fired yesterday. Quade is a long time Cub, and has done a decent job in other parts of the organization. If the Cubs decide to release him, then it may well be the best for the team (something to be happy about) but at the same time, it means that a person has lost his job, which shouldn’t be something to be joyous about.
(end of rant)
If the Cubs still have a chance, no matter how small, it’s still Go Cubs, damn the math and pass the KoolAid. I'm a Sheeple and proud of it!
by eths on Oct 31, 2011 9:02 AM CDT up reply actions 3 recs
LOL
Yes, they can do no wrong down there by the silver arch.
"Wait, are you saying I'm a sunshine-pumping, koolaid-drinking, Soriano-loving, rainbow-rising, unicorn-riding, double-clutching, Sweet Lou-backing, Hendry-supporting, hey hey whaddya saying, Cubs are going all the waying, glass is overflowing, Rothschild is all-knowing, Cubs fan? - ballhawk
I couldn't agree more
"Wait, are you saying I'm a sunshine-pumping, koolaid-drinking, Soriano-loving, rainbow-rising, unicorn-riding, double-clutching, Sweet Lou-backing, Hendry-supporting, hey hey whaddya saying, Cubs are going all the waying, glass is overflowing, Rothschild is all-knowing, Cubs fan? - ballhawk
I doubt Theo would, in essence, break up with Quade's answering machine.
Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.
he should break up with him via text message?
"Whenever one finds himself in the majority, it is time to step back and reflect," Mark Twain.
by WindisBlowingOut! on Oct 31, 2011 9:05 AM CDT up reply actions
Meeting before the Tuesday press conference...?
The timing seems interesting with the introduction of Hoyer coming tomorrow.
My guess is that they met with him last week, talked it over, and this is the moment he is dismissed. Frankly, why do you need to to have a second meeting to tell someone that they are keeping their same job? If this was about having an organizational meeting of the minds, then you bring Quade up to Chicago.
Eamus Ursuli!
I want Quade gone as much as anyone...
… but this seems pretty clear. Theo Epstein is new to this organization. As much as he may or may not know about Quade (or Soriano, Castro, et al), he’s still new to the organization and you need to make smart decisions, not quick decisions. Its clear that the Cubs got a guy in Epstein who is measured and makes thoughtful decisions. Sorry, but he’s handling this one the right way.
He's under contract to the Cubs right now...
Theo could and should be using Quade for as much information as he might have on the Cubs organization… especially the information we couldn’t even dream about (such as the truth about Carlos Zambrano and other clubhouse elements)… then Theo should thank him for his service and show him the door, unless he’s unwilling to accept another position within the organization.
--------------------------------
Just North of Wrigley Field
by jameslcrockett on Oct 31, 2011 11:54 AM CDT up reply actions
Once to debrief him
once to fire him.
I bet the “talk” is going to be a firing.
by Josh Timmers on Oct 31, 2011 12:29 PM CDT up reply actions
Still bugs me
that he wasn’t open to a trade at the deadline. It was what was best for both parties and his comments to the media made it seem like he knew all along he wasn’t going t be back. Aramis would have brought back a pretty good amount and It would’ve been nice to have some good pitching prospects in the system.
With that said, I’m an Aramis fan, but it’s time for him to go. Defense kills the team and he routinely starts off cold.
Shift Castro to 3rd and make a run at Reyes, anyone? Just a thought
that's the one downside to signing Reyes
but he would be a great fit at the top of the lineup. Is it worth it to give him the money he is going to get? Probably not because of the injury factor.
My only qualm with Reyes is he's so injury prone.
That being said, he’s definitely worth inquiring about. But what happens if he gets hurt? Put Castro back at SS and Baker at 3rd?
"Whenever one finds himself in the majority, it is time to step back and reflect," Mark Twain.
by WindisBlowingOut! on Oct 31, 2011 8:28 AM CDT up reply actions
A-Ram's Defense
He was never a Gold Glover, but I thought he had some decent years defensively with the Cubs. A-Ram’s defense really went down hill the last couple of years. I think Ron Cey, circa 1985, was about as good defensively as A-Ram was this past season.
Good things come to those who wait... and wait....and wait.
Agree
there were years when he was very good at 3B. But he’s not what he used to be defensively, not even close.
Yep
I know A-Ram is getting older, but his drop off in defense has been striking.
Good things come to those who wait... and wait....and wait.
Decent is about the best you can say.
Many people overrated his defense.
John Grabow - Who will pay you $4.8 million in 2012?
I don't understand the rush to move Castro
The Cubs aren’t winning in 2012. Let Castro play SS under a new regime.
John Grabow - Who will pay you $4.8 million in 2012?
I would prefer not to move Castro
but if you can get Reyes, what do you do? You could move Castro to 2nd, which might help his throwing accuracy, but that still leaves us with a hole a 3rd.
"Whenever one finds himself in the majority, it is time to step back and reflect," Mark Twain.
by WindisBlowingOut! on Oct 31, 2011 9:11 AM CDT up reply actions
Don't sign Reyes.
Signing Reyes and moving Castro is a short-term “have-to-do something” move that Hendry would have done. The Cubs need to determine in 2012 whether Castro can play SS.
John Grabow - Who will pay you $4.8 million in 2012?
I personally wouldn't sign Reyes, either.
There are a lot more issues with this team than signing another SS.
"Whenever one finds himself in the majority, it is time to step back and reflect," Mark Twain.
by WindisBlowingOut! on Oct 31, 2011 9:23 AM CDT up reply actions
Happy Halloween everyone!
OT-While sinking my teeth into some “holiday” reading I came across a tidbit about a connection between vampires and bats. Apparently, Tod Browning, the director of the 1931 movie Dracula starring Bela Lugosi was the nephew of Pete “The Gladiator” Browning otherwise known as “The Louisville Slugger” that the bats are named after. I just thought that was interesting and wanted to share it with you.
Dear Great Pumpkin, I am looking forward to your arrival on Halloween Night. I hope you will bring me lots of presents.
wow talk about odd connections....Happy Halloween!
"Well-behaved women seldom make History"---Laurel Thatcher Ulrich
by cooliogirl47 on Oct 31, 2011 8:54 AM CDT up reply actions
My Mother (born and raised in England) found all the pet shops selling bats in Cooperstown very strange...
If the Cubs still have a chance, no matter how small, it’s still Go Cubs, damn the math and pass the KoolAid. I'm a Sheeple and proud of it!
I did not know that.
Wow, a baseball connection.
by Josh Timmers on Oct 31, 2011 12:30 PM CDT up reply actions
That's an interesting tidbit I hadn't heard before...
thanks for sharing! And it’s about two of my favorite things, baseball and old movies.
"Pinky, are you pondering what I'm pondering?"--The Brain
The long term is more important than the short term.
I’m ecstatic that the Cubs finally have a long term vision.
"You win because of the quarterback. We have to get that position stabilized. We're fixated on that." -- Jerry Angelo (12.30.2008)
Jerry Angelo trades for Jay Cutler! (4.2.2009)
agreed...
But i’m fearing another decade without a impact 3B. Guess that’s the risk you take when you put a long-term plan like this in place.
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by digitalbenjamin on Oct 31, 2011 8:34 AM CDT up reply actions
disagree
He could be for 2 more years (not long-term I understand)… but offensively he was one of the most productive 3B in the NL this past year.
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by digitalbenjamin on Oct 31, 2011 8:44 AM CDT up reply actions
When the Cubs were 15-20 back.....He didnt do anything at the start of the last 2 years....
Even if he signed a 2 year contract it is not worth 16 million a year….
Between Madlock and Ramirez
I suppose Ron Cey was the best 3B the Cubs had. He still had some value when he got to the Cubs from the Dodgers. Who could blame Dallas Green for stockpiling the Cubs with veterans that had a little bit left in the tank with the putrid farm system Green inherited? Cey didn’t have much range at third for the Cubs. He really didn’t by the end of his time in Chicago, but he could still hit home runs. I’m not saying he was any great shakes for the Cubs like he was for the Dodgers. Cey did help out the Cubs some.
Good things come to those who wait... and wait....and wait.
Ron Cey COULD still hit home runs...
…unfortunately a large percentage of them were solo shots with the Cubs down four runs in the ninth.
by bluekoolaide on Oct 31, 2011 9:46 AM CDT up reply actions
1 or 2 years more of Ramirez doesn't impact the next 10 years at 3B anyway.
"You win because of the quarterback. We have to get that position stabilized. We're fixated on that." -- Jerry Angelo (12.30.2008)
Jerry Angelo trades for Jay Cutler! (4.2.2009)
I'll be disappointed to see Ramirez go
He’s been one of my favorite Cubs over his career and his production in the immediate term will be missed
however, this is the type of move a smart organization makes. Ramirez’s upside at this point in his career isn’t enough to help lead this current squad to contention and his downside is a mistake that drags down the budget as an aging 3B with diminishing range and questionable health.
We’ll take the compensation and continue to build for the next wave, while taking the extra money from Ramirez and likely putting it into avenues to build for the next wave, locking up young players to extensions, re-deploying capital into the farm/development, etc
follow me on twitter for fantasy sports analysis @http://twitter.com/DrewDinkmeyer or get the full analysis at www.fantistics.com
by DartmouthCubsFan on Oct 31, 2011 8:29 AM CDT reply actions 10 recs
Exactly.
It wouldn’t have been the worst thing if Aramis had taken the option, but giving him multiple years is a dangerous road. And I think he’ll get multiple years (probably more than two) on the open market.
Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.
Feel very much the same.
I’m not excited to see Aramis go, but I am excited to finally have a baseball operations team that can build the organization by letting a veteran player like Ramirez go.
Baseball is pitching, offensive production, baserunning and defense.
Whatever the new guys decide...
….works for me. But I’ll miss Ramirez mightily. And I’m guessing the Cubs will too, at least next year.
"I'd rather hit home runs you don't have to run as hard." -- Dave Kingman
by BucknerKongCardenal on Oct 31, 2011 8:09 PM CDT up reply actions
me too
one of my favorite sports memories, same year got to be at the super bowl for hester’s kickoff return. Both games with my dad. Just fantastic
follow me on twitter for fantasy sports analysis @http://twitter.com/DrewDinkmeyer or get the full analysis at www.fantistics.com
by DartmouthCubsFan on Oct 31, 2011 8:45 AM CDT up reply actions
What are the odds...?
That Theo gets a phone call from Halas Hall in the next few days, with a little friendly advice: “Just don’t forget to check the box!”
"Check the box"?
OK, I’m confused. What does this mean?
Join us for complete MLB coverage at SB Nation's Baseball Nation
When Angelo goofed up a move by forgetting to check an box on the form...
a few years back I think
Check out the Video Blog I host: WebSmart TV
by digitalbenjamin on Oct 31, 2011 8:37 AM CDT up reply actions
In the NFL at the time,
certain free agents would net you compensation when they left for another squad. To get the pick, you had to check a box when requesting the compensation. Angelo didn’t check the box, and overpaid to keep from losing the WR without the compensation.
10-25-2011. Theo Epstein joins the Cubs. Now, the fun begins.
The worst jokes are the ones you have to explain, so FAIL to me. But anyway....
In Angelo’s first year with the Bears, he had two players come up for free agency with the equivalent of baseball’s supplemental compensation system, e.g., if you make those players the correct qualifying offer, and they sign with someone else, then you get draft picks in compensation. Angelo made the appropriate monetary offers to each, but didn’t check a box on the form that indicated it was the qualifying type of offer. Other teams could then sign the players without the Bears receiving a pick in exchange. One (D’Wayne Bates) left the team as a free agent. The second (Warrick Holdman) was re-signed by the Bears for way, WAY more money than he would have gotten had other teams been forced to give up a draft pick to sign him.
by Orval Overall on Oct 31, 2011 8:44 AM CDT up reply actions
Oh.
Since it’s not the case in baseball, that went way past me.
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And make sure the paperwork gets filed on time
That cost Tallon his job with the Blackhawks.
by jerry morales rules on Oct 31, 2011 8:53 AM CDT up reply actions
could the FO be thinking is it time to bring up someone from the minors to start at 3rd?
"Well-behaved women seldom make History"---Laurel Thatcher Ulrich
I think this is more about not tying up resources ...
on a player who is in his 30s, who will require a multi-year deal and who will arguably not be worth what he’s paid when the Cubs are legit contenders again.
Also, there does need to be a culture change on this club. Aramis, Soriano and Zambrano are (in different ways) symbols of the old, and Zambrano and especially Soriano will be especially difficult to move.
Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.
They'd love to think that...
if there were anybody even close to ready to play 3rd at the major league level.
--------------------------------
Just North of Wrigley Field
by jameslcrockett on Oct 31, 2011 11:57 AM CDT up reply actions
LaRussa retiring!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
"You win because of the quarterback. We have to get that position stabilized. We're fixated on that." -- Jerry Angelo (12.30.2008)
Jerry Angelo trades for Jay Cutler! (4.2.2009)
Hopefully Pujols bolts in FA
The new Cubs era is set to shine!!!!!!!
"You win because of the quarterback. We have to get that position stabilized. We're fixated on that." -- Jerry Angelo (12.30.2008)
Jerry Angelo trades for Jay Cutler! (4.2.2009)
$300 Million/10 Years
I want the Cardinals to give Pujols a fat contract like that to hamstring the franchise financially.
Good things come to those who wait... and wait....and wait.
I want Pujols to sign with the cardinals again,
for a hometown discount, we just won a world series high discount…then fielders worth comes down and we can get him on the “cheap”.
So i you can give you can take it.
wow.....absolutely shocked!!!!!!
"Well-behaved women seldom make History"---Laurel Thatcher Ulrich
by cooliogirl47 on Oct 31, 2011 9:13 AM CDT up reply actions
Good for him.
I mean how can you repeat this year. Talking about a magical run. I think Duncan’s issues with his wife health had some bearing on this also. Maybe Tony wants to enjoy fine wine somewhere.
hopefully somewhere
where he can use public transportation or a taxi
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by DartmouthCubsFan on Oct 31, 2011 9:18 AM CDT up reply actions
bah dum bah!
Cruel, but fair
"Wait, are you saying I'm a sunshine-pumping, koolaid-drinking, Soriano-loving, rainbow-rising, unicorn-riding, double-clutching, Sweet Lou-backing, Hendry-supporting, hey hey whaddya saying, Cubs are going all the waying, glass is overflowing, Rothschild is all-knowing, Cubs fan? - ballhawk
yeah i'd argue
cruel is putting others lives in danger consistently by getting behind the wheel after drinking…. even after seeing a player under his watch lose his life for drunk driving home from a game. You’d think that may have been a bit of a wake-up call for LaRussa, but it wasnt
disgusts me
follow me on twitter for fantasy sports analysis @http://twitter.com/DrewDinkmeyer or get the full analysis at www.fantistics.com
by DartmouthCubsFan on Nov 1, 2011 9:06 AM CDT up reply actions
But where will the Cardinals find their next dirt bag manager?
Who will hire admitted steroid users as coaches?
The world weeps.
Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.
Deservedly so.
He’s still among my least favorite people in professional sports. Hiring McGwire was truly disgusting.
Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.
His constant defending of McGwire was incredible to watch
And he did it all with a straight face.
La Russa was a great manager, but he is a disgusting human being.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Oct 31, 2011 6:24 PM CDT up reply actions 2 recs
Odd favor...
… Jose Oquendo (their current 3B coach), who has been seen as a future manager for quite some time. A hire like this means not upsetting the coaching staff apple cart unless Oquendo doesn’t like some of the other coaches. It may also get Dave Duncan to stick around for a few more years.
I could also see them going after Terry Francona, who seems to do well with veteran, established teams.
I bet it's Francona.
Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.
So let's see.
He shouldn’t be Cubs manager, but he SHOULD be Cardinals manager?
Let’s hear you explain this one, Ed.
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I think he's saying he'll endorse someone he doesn't think will be a good manager for the Cards job...
by bdlugz on Oct 31, 2011 2:38 PM CDT up reply actions 2 recs
I predict that Duncan is going to retire too
He tied very closely to the hip with TLR. His wife has a brain tumor and I suspect that needs to get resolved in some manner before he continues as pitching coach. He was away from August through September dealing with this issue so there is already precedence for him.
"All I want is food and creative love" - Rusted Root
by TheRiot Police on Oct 31, 2011 12:30 PM CDT up reply actions
I don't think Sandberg
is even remotely in the Cardinals’ plans. That should tell you something.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Oct 31, 2011 6:24 PM CDT up reply actions
All it tells you....
… is that they’ve had a manager in waiting (Jose Oquendo) for several years. I’d be pretty surprised if he didn’t get it.
Join us for complete MLB coverage at SB Nation's Baseball Nation
I think Oquendo is one of the top candidates
I don’t think it’s his for the taking quite yet, at least not from what I’ve heard.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Oct 31, 2011 8:51 PM CDT up reply actions
It's an interesting thing.
Oquendo is a fairly popular choice among fans, it seems. It seems like there’s some value in continuity, for sure.
But Francona’s definitely in the mix, Riggleman’s name has come up, and there has been a lot of idle talk about Joe Maddon (contract through 2012, but he’s apparently been a Cards fan since childhood). We’ll see.
So...
… will you make the same statement if Dave Martinez isn’t remotely in the Cards plans either? Just because a manager isn’t a good fit for one job doesn’t mean he isn’t a good fit for a different one.
I'm not the one claiming
the world is pining for Davey Martinez.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Nov 1, 2011 11:15 AM CDT up reply actions
The Jed/Theo show will have to be extremely creative
to fill the void at 3rd. All off seasons are interesting and challenging. This off season will take them all.
Agreed.
Who knows what the Opening Day 2012 roster might look like.
John Grabow - Who will pay you $4.8 million in 2012?
I'm more interested in Opening Day 2013
Next year still has some past contract burden limiting the options.
Bye A-Ram. It was fun watching you play and I always felt you gave it your all
(within reason). You stabilized a gaping hole at 3rd base for 8+ years for the Cubs and brought the lumber. Yes, you aged and slowed down over that time- as most of us did. No regrets or hard feelings. Best of luck wherever 2012 finds you.
There are 108 beads in a Catholic rosary and there are 108 stitches in a baseball. Who says baseball isn't a religion? (Now #8452 in the Cubs Season Ticket Wait List...)
"within reason"
There are 108 beads in a Catholic rosary and there are 108 stitches in a baseball. Who says baseball isn't a religion? (Now #8452 in the Cubs Season Ticket Wait List...)
A gaping hole?
Gaetti was pretty good there, with a playoff appearance. Bill Mueller? I’m sorry, but if the only purpose of having a good 3b is to say “hey we have our first good thirdbaseman since Santo” then what did it get you. I’ll take a great defensive, average hitting 3b over Aram anytime.
Wow, we Cubs fans like to romanticize things that deserve it.
Guys, hitting is not about muscle. It's simple physics. Calculate the velocity, v, in relation to the trajectory, t, in which g, gravity, of course remains a constant.... It's not complicated. - George Costanza
by troutfishin on Oct 31, 2011 11:52 AM CDT up reply actions
Luis Salazar was halfway decent too. Nothing to write home about but halfway decent.
Speaking of him has there been anything on him lately how he’s doing?
Nothing happens unless it's first a dream
by puckishcubsfan on Oct 31, 2011 11:59 AM CDT up reply actions
Also, Ron Cey... Bill Madlock...
There were solid 3B, just nothing long-term.
MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown
Madlock could have been a long term solution
Except the Cubs unloaded him when he was only 26, and still had two more batting titles in his future.
by Jody Jody Davis on Oct 31, 2011 4:44 PM CDT up reply actions
its funny
Al had to go back 4 years to get a pic of this guy helping the team
by Mike the ex cub fan on Oct 31, 2011 9:18 AM CDT reply actions
Since you aren’t a Cubs fan and never have been why do you care?
Nothing happens unless it's first a dream
by puckishcubsfan on Oct 31, 2011 10:36 AM CDT up reply actions
biased ramirez guy
aramis ramirez should thank jim hendry the cubs and their wonderful fans for making him very rich! we got back about one penny on the dollar for his playoff performances
by notcubbiewubbie on Oct 31, 2011 9:29 AM CDT reply actions
I'd have went with a half-penny, myself.
[...]when Giants coach Steve Owen, a certified defensive genius, was asked how he planned to stop Nagurski, he said: "With a shotgun, as he’s leaving the dressing room."
by NobodySpecial on Oct 31, 2011 8:17 PM CDT up reply actions
For those in the know
Where will the compensatory picks for Ramirez end up in the draft? Between the 1st and 2nd rounds?
After years and YEARS
of complaining “we haven’t had a decent third baseman since Santo!” before A-Ram’s arrival, I am sad that he is leaving…as he did indeed become a productive staple at the hot corner. And I fear we’re about to enter another few years of Gary Scotts.
I don’t really understand the haters, because I think they forgot about the mish-mosh parade of unproductive has-beens and never-weres that played there (post-Santo) Sure, Ramirez wasn’t a STUD for all 162, but he did PLENTY of positive things for the club that far outweigh the negative.
"What the hell, let's review it." - Dale Tallon
"They are!" - Pat Foley
"What a farce." - Dale Tallon
Maybe there is a David Freese type to be had----
that seemed to turn out pretty well for the Redbirds
Not to rehash the LaHair arguments....
but Freese had good power numbers in the minor while he was in his mid 20’s. Didn’t get any significant major league AB’s until last year, at age 27. Now he blossomed in the WS as a 28 year old. So we can cite Freese as an example of a player who becomes a productive major leaguer beginning in his late 20’s
I think it's a smart baseball move to not resign him.
But I think it’s going to create a disaster at third.
"The riches of the game are in the thrills, not the money." --Ernie Banks
by dtpollitt on Oct 31, 2011 10:17 AM CDT reply actions 1 recs
IF they can use that $16MM to strengthen 1B/RF/2B
Then it’ll be a good situation in the long run. Eventually Castro will fill out and be in a position to have the power to move over to 3B.
Some combination of DJL, Flaherty, Baker, and maybe eventualy Vitters can stand there in 2012 while the team goes about losing its 84 games again in rebuilding.
It's a simple question, Doctor: would you eat the moon if it were made of ribs??
by Invalid User on Oct 31, 2011 10:23 AM CDT up reply actions
Yeah, that’s how I see it, too. It’s going to be a revolving door of rookies and bench players until we get to 2013 or find a regular. However, I’m in the camp that I’d like to keep Castro at SS as long as possible; I think he deserves a few years of growing considering he’s so young.
"The riches of the game are in the thrills, not the money." --Ernie Banks
Can Pujols play 3B?
"Hey-Hey! Home Run! Attaboy Ronnie!" ~ Jack Brickhouse
Pujols 3B Fielder 1B
GETITDONETHEO!
lol
by ubercubsfan on Oct 31, 2011 10:22 AM CDT up reply actions
He came up as a 3B
But he’s had elbow issues so I doubt at his age you’d want to stick him there for more than 3-4 innings a month.
It's a simple question, Doctor: would you eat the moon if it were made of ribs??
by Invalid User on Oct 31, 2011 10:24 AM CDT up reply actions
Decision
If the Cubs think they can go for it in next 3 years you have to keep him.
Other than that it’s time to go.
Nothing happens unless it's first a dream
by puckishcubsfan on Oct 31, 2011 10:35 AM CDT reply actions
If he wasn't
so old (36) and so injury prone (over the past several years), I would say take a run at Scott Rolen.
Are there any prospects in the minors?
"I don't believe in curses." -- Theo Epstein
Tell you what, if I'm DJL, im in the weight room every day packing on 20-25 pounds of good muscle.
if he checks in to camp 6’4" 215, 220 or so, i wouldn’t be too uncomfortable allowing him to get a crack at the spot. his D would be a plus. and hopefully some muscle to that slight frame brings more pop. otherwise Flaherty getting a look wouldnt be the end of the world. IMHO
My favorite ARam moment
The grand slam he hit in Game 4 of the 2003 NLCS, because at that moment I thought the Cubs had the pennant in the bag. But it wasn’t meant to be…
So long Aram, and good luck.
You were a force for a while there. Time for everyone to finally move on.
"Hey Hey, Holy mackerel, no doubt about it,!"
by scottsdalecubs on Oct 31, 2011 11:28 AM CDT reply actions
Aramis could still come back.
Nothing is certain yet.
"They sell every ticket to every game, win or lose!" - Tom Ricketts
No thanks, saying good bye is the best option for this organization moving forward
On to bigger and better things.
Guys, hitting is not about muscle. It's simple physics. Calculate the velocity, v, in relation to the trajectory, t, in which g, gravity, of course remains a constant.... It's not complicated. - George Costanza
by troutfishin on Oct 31, 2011 11:48 AM CDT up reply actions
I don't agree.
And I don’t think Theo does either. The option was exercised; it’s clear they have some interest in him.
"They sell every ticket to every game, win or lose!" - Tom Ricketts
or it was exercised knowing he was going to decline it.
good way to get out of paying $2M
I don't agree with that point of view at all.
"They sell every ticket to every game, win or lose!" - Tom Ricketts
They exercised it because they'd have him back for 2012.
Aramis could easily have been bluffing and then exercised his portion of it as well. If the Cubs had zero interest in the guy, they would have paid him his $2 Million and moved on.
"They sell every ticket to every game, win or lose!" - Tom Ricketts
Or maybe they talked to Ramirez and agreed to do it this way?
We’re all just speculating, so there is no way to know for sure what happened or will happen.
It is likely safe to assume, however, that at the price and years Ramirez is looking for, the Cubs will look elsewhere for a 3B.
They were willing to go 1 year @ 16 Million
No one knows how much further they are willing to go.
I’d say if he does not re-sign over the next few days, then yes, he is gone. But to say he’s gone right now is very premature.
"They sell every ticket to every game, win or lose!" - Tom Ricketts
he's made it very clear he wants multi years.
i think they did it knowing he wasn’t goign to accept. and if he did good, but they won’t be giving him a multi year contract in my opinion.
No, they exercised it because it maximized the asset.
If Theo doesn’t exercise the option, Aramis walks and the Cubs pay $2MM.
If Theo exercises the option, one of two things happen -
1. Aramis is a Cub on a 1-year deal at $16MM, and can be kept or traded; or
2. Aramis walks, the Cubs don’t owe $2MM.
There is no scenario in which “don’t exercise the option” provides more value for the future.
Now, the team can offer arbitration, Aramis will obviously decline (as again, he is not interested in a 1-year deal), and the Cubs will get a nice 2nd round pick.
So the choice boils down to — “would you rather pay Aramis $2MM to leave, or would you like an extra 2nd round draft pick?”
That’s like asking if you’d prefer to be the greatest scientist in your field, or if you’d rather have Mad Cow disease.
And finally, FINALLY, the Cubs are done making stupid decisions.
MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown
by D98 on Oct 31, 2011 4:05 PM CDT up reply actions 3 recs
Yeah, because we all know how open Aramis is to a trade.
I think it’s pretty clear the Cubs have sincere interest in the guy. I’m guessing they will offer him a new, multi-year deal.
"They sell every ticket to every game, win or lose!" - Tom Ricketts
The odds of Aramis staying on a 1-year deal were close to zero.
And, as expected, Aramis refused to stay on a 1-year deal.
We’ll see if Theo offers Aramis a multi-year deal. I’ll make a friendly bet with you right now that he doesn’t. I could be wrong.
MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown
by D98 on Nov 1, 2011 8:44 AM CDT up reply actions
I agree with you.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
I agree with you here.
Minor League Contributing Writer, Athletics Nation.
State high point count: 4/50
If you are grouchy, irritable, or just plain mean, there will be a $10 charge for putting up with you.
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Nov 1, 2011 11:23 AM CDT up reply actions
But it just may be...
…a BLounatic you’re lookin’ for!
Baseball is pitching, offensive production, baserunning and defense.
Hopefully he does.
We all want this team to get better, and it won’t get better by dumping the best 3B on the FA market.
"They sell every ticket to every game, win or lose!" - Tom Ricketts
We won't get better by heavily investing in Aramis Ramirez age 34-36 year old seasons, either.
MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown
by D98 on Nov 1, 2011 6:29 PM CDT up reply actions
The problem is whether he will be viable at 3B in 2013 and 2014
The old contract was 2012 only. His new one (with what ever team) won’t be.
Some of you do not remember
that Bill Mueller WAS a Chicago Cub 2001-2002 and blew his knee out running for a foul ball and stumbled over one of the tarps the ground crew left on the field as they used to do.
I really liked him, and was truly bummed thinking, "Finally the Cubs get a good 3B, and look what happens. So “Cub”.
However, in one of the decent Hendry moves, he got Rammy a year later.
3RD BASE
I love Ramirez but he’s not the only 3rd baseman out there. Yes we may downgrade at the position but it doesn’t mean it’s going to be Gary Scott either.
Nothing happens unless it's first a dream
by puckishcubsfan on Oct 31, 2011 11:54 AM CDT reply actions
He's the best FA 3B by a long stretch.
"The riches of the game are in the thrills, not the money." --Ernie Banks
Also
Picking up the option doesn’t mean they aren’t interested in signing him to a multi year deal,
In 2006 everyone assumed he was gone as well remember.
In fact I remember the day he resigned the Score was reporting he had told the Cubs to take their last offer and stick it up their heinies.
Nothing happens unless it's first a dream
by puckishcubsfan on Oct 31, 2011 11:58 AM CDT up reply actions
With a minus
-1.5 in 2010, and 3.6 in 2011, and his age, I want the draft picks.
The team will be lucky to be .500 in 2012. Even 5-6 games under WITH Ramirez.
The money should be spent on pitching. Also, I would be happy to trade Marmol, but his value has now dipped dramatically.
One of the newspaper blogs suggested another option
IF the Pads and the Cubs front offices/ownerships are a “friendly” to each other as we are now led to believe, a trade that could be pulled off that includes Chase Headley. (I do not have time to find the link, sorry.)
This isn’t a bad idea. Headley fits the mold of an “Theo” player, and his power numbers might /should go up upon leaving Petco
He’s got a good glove. He’s cost controlled.
by San Diego Smooth Jazz Man on Oct 31, 2011 12:41 PM CDT reply actions
That could take several
prozpects to pull that off.
I'd love to have him as the next great Cubs 3B.
I’m not sure the Cubs can acquire him though.
--------------------------------
Just North of Wrigley Field
by jameslcrockett on Oct 31, 2011 12:46 PM CDT up reply actions
I wouldn't venture to say great..
More like solid starter. Especially while we try to build.
by cubsfaninatl on Oct 31, 2011 2:10 PM CDT up reply actions
Away from Petco the guy did nothing but hit...
.330/.399/.465/.864
Obviously I don’t expect him to carry a .330 BA or .400 OBP, but if he can come in and hit .290/.360/.460 with above average defense, I’m all in.
Headley would be a good low-cost acquisition.
GETERDONETHEOANDJED
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BCB question
do we have to say
GETERDONETHOEANDJED
OR CAN WE JUST SAY
GETERDONETHEO OR GETERDONEJED
by cozmotaylor123 on Oct 31, 2011 2:41 PM CDT up reply actions
Let me consult my AP Style Manual...
…to see whether there’s a precedent.
Baseball is pitching, offensive production, baserunning and defense.
Well, except he's VP of scouting.
Those guys don’t make many trades or signings.
Join us for complete MLB coverage at SB Nation's Baseball Nation
I like that.
Kinda reminds of The Dude.
Baseball is pitching, offensive production, baserunning and defense.
GETERDONETJ!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
YES!!!
In fact, Ballhawk suggested something along these lines in another thread.
Baseball is pitching, offensive production, baserunning and defense.
Done, it gotten must be, young Jedi
or maybe even: Dunn, it gotten…
If the Cubs still have a chance, no matter how small, it’s still Go Cubs, damn the math and pass the KoolAid. I'm a Sheeple and proud of it!
by eths on Nov 1, 2011 5:00 AM CDT via iPhone app up reply actions
Any idea what the Padres would be looking for?
It’s not like the Cubs have a lot of pitching to offer right now.
Baseball is pitching, offensive production, baserunning and defense.
I have always liked
Headley and the way he plays 3rd base. And he’s a switch-hitter, which adds to his allure
"I don't believe in curses." -- Theo Epstein
I always make the mistake of calling him Glenn Headley
who played Mrs. Holland in “Mr. Holland’s Opus”
Or,
Terry Pendleton!
Any ex-Cardinals
Even Ryan Theriot got a World Series ring as a Cardinal.
God, do we suck…
Theriot was on with Jim Rome today...
It was a good interview and he had nice things to say about all his managers – Dusty, Lou, Torre and TLR. He said TLR challenged him every day to be the best player he could be, etc…
Get 'em on, Get 'em over, Get 'em in!
I'd say that's a challenge...
…Theriot pretty much failed in 2011.
Baseball is pitching, offensive production, baserunning and defense.
Not necessarily.
The question is how good a player can Theriot be? He may have been as good as he can be. Many people in Chicago overrated his ability based on his scrappyness.
John Grabow - Who will pay you $4.8 million in 2012?
If a .292 wOBA with minus defense and four stolen bases...
…is the best Theriot can be, that’s aiming pretty low.
Baseball is pitching, offensive production, baserunning and defense.
If it's all you've got in the tank, it's all you've got in the tank.....
And despite the LSU background, Theriot doesn’t have a tiger in the tank.
I wonder what the Brewers plans are for him.
Could he be a nontender candidate?
Baseball is pitching, offensive production, baserunning and defense.
That picture is depressing
Feels like ages ago when we were having fun watching our Cubs.
In my lifetime please!
Can we not pick up TJ's option? His production has been in steady decline for over a year and a half now.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Oct 31, 2011 1:13 PM CDT reply actions 10 recs
But...does he hustle?
"Keep looking into the past and you'll keep repeating the past" - Some Smart Guy
Crickets approve!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
by ballhawk on Oct 31, 2011 3:04 PM CDT up reply actions 3 recs
DFA
"Wait, are you saying I'm a sunshine-pumping, koolaid-drinking, Soriano-loving, rainbow-rising, unicorn-riding, double-clutching, Sweet Lou-backing, Hendry-supporting, hey hey whaddya saying, Cubs are going all the waying, glass is overflowing, Rothschild is all-knowing, Cubs fan? - ballhawk
Their would be huge drop off in Snarkiness
for his replacement
SAR is a faulty metric
If the Cubs still have a chance, no matter how small, it’s still Go Cubs, damn the math and pass the KoolAid. I'm a Sheeple and proud of it!
by eths on Nov 1, 2011 5:02 AM CDT via iPhone app up reply actions
That's not really an argument against letting you go.
by Nunyabidness on Nov 1, 2011 12:55 PM CDT up reply actions
And now you've played the "I'm doing you a service" card
You really are nothing but a troll.
It’s also not clear how you’re “shaking the establishment” by posting the same bullshit over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over.
For your next trick, please claim we’re all a hive mind and further convince me that you and Not Bruce are nothing more than the same person who finds annoying people high entertainment.
by Nunyabidness on Nov 1, 2011 1:21 PM CDT up reply actions 6 recs
Everything he said is true.
You are just as bad as Not Bruce. Seriously you are the one who needs to shut up.
by sue369 on Nov 1, 2011 1:39 PM CDT up reply actions 3 recs
Just to establish a baseline and/or frame of reference...
what’s the last notable thing the Cubs did that you do accept, like, and/or dare I say… approve!!!!!!!!
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
TJ i'm seriously trying to reason with you....
we dont all always agree with what the Cubs do. the difference between the majority of us and you…we make the point once, maybe twice and on rare occasions, three times. you beat horses until they are oatmeal. you have blinders on and once entrenched you will never, ever, ever, come off of your point, and if someone points that out to you, that person drinks kool-aid or wants blake dewitt to start for the Chicago Cubs.
So i you can give you can take it.
by epsilon on Nov 1, 2011 1:29 PM CDT up reply actions 5 recs
How stupid are you? I mean really?
What’s hilarious is that you’re actually going to try and cast me as someone who agrees with everything the Cubs do.
Reading your posts before, I know you hardly "agree with everything the Cubs do".
I used to enjoy the occasional TJ, but his act has grown far too old.
Seriously, TJ...
… the Cubs appear to be getting on the right track to improving the team to championship quality.
I’d suggest you stop the continual bashing, because it’s starting to piss people off here. Why can’t you wait and see? The old regime is done.
Join us for complete MLB coverage at SB Nation's Baseball Nation
All of this because I am happy that the lazy Aram is gone.....
Pretty funny I think….
When quade is gone I think I would lighten up…..
Its November, the worst manager the cubs have had in 40 years is still here.
No. Wrong. Again.
All of this because I am happy that the lazy Aram is gone…..
All this because of how you choose to interact with other people. There are plenty of people who are glad Aram is gone. If you chose to read the comments, as opposed to threadshit whenever you can you’d know that.
You used to possess a modicum of common sense. I even enjoyed your over the top fake optimism back in the day, but this is just boring and annoying. You don’t even TRY to have a conversation anymore. You are now in the same category as far as almost universally disliked poster as SenorGato, NotBruce and Blou. That’s not company I would want to keep if I were you. Either you’ve lost some perspective or you’re a troll, either way…the dislike isn’t because you’re happy Aram is gone.
by Nunyabidness on Nov 1, 2011 3:08 PM CDT up reply actions 3 recs
Too much
I actually think he’s been the same TJ, but when hit, most anyone is going to take offense and TJ’s strategy has been to push back.
This place is just one giant glass-house. People are just going to keep throwing stones. The walls have already shattered.
by monkeybiz on Nov 1, 2011 4:08 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
One giant glass house......PERFECT!
Exactly!
Many of the same people will be saying how its fine that Quade stays if Theo says so as opposed to Hendry saying so….
That will be hilarious to watch.
Or will they rationalize it that Theo has a different, longer-term plan than a bunch of people on a blog do?
by Arbusto on Nov 1, 2011 4:14 PM CDT up reply actions 3 recs
All that's been proven is that you will find a way to bitch about anything.
Theo! Good job, Tommy Boy!
by shoemile on Nov 1, 2011 5:01 PM CDT up reply actions 3 recs
Right.
It’s November 1. So what if Quade hasn’t been fired yet?
I’m pretty sure he will be within a week. Hopefully that will be OK with TJ.
A little patience is requested.
Join us for complete MLB coverage at SB Nation's Baseball Nation
Theo will be praised if he keeps quade by many of the same people who wanted him fired before theo got here....
Watch….it will be amusing….
I hope it is a moot point and theo makes a change.
So, if Quade comes back
What do you want everyone to do? Riot in the streets? Occupy Waveland?
Theo! Good job, Tommy Boy!
And almost everyone will.
Just because people don’t go apeshit when something they disagree with occurs doesn’t mean they think a good move was made.
Theo! Good job, Tommy Boy!
by shoemile on Nov 1, 2011 6:07 PM CDT up reply actions 3 recs
No... if you ever stopped being so freaking stubborn for one second
Maybe YOU would be surprised.
Try reading what is actually written here for a change.
You made a typo there, let me correct that for you
Some more bitching from people because I dont accepteverythinganything the Cubs do!!!!!!
Is drinking haterade really any better than Kool-aid? They’re both pretty dull. Besides, if I wanted to read poorly-written musings on how everything the Cubs do is wrong, I’d just read Rosenbloom.
by Wreckard on Nov 1, 2011 1:58 PM CDT up reply actions 3 recs
haterade has electrolytes
THEOOOOOOOOO (and Hoyer)
by jesus christos on Nov 1, 2011 7:30 PM CDT up reply actions
thanks for your 2 hits
combined in the 2007/08 playoffs
"Hey.....Cubs win!!!" ---Harry
"Cubs win....what a lucky break!!" ---Harry
Singling out Ramirez for shitty performance in the 07/08 playoffs...
is a bit disingenuous.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Oct 31, 2011 1:51 PM CDT up reply actions 2 recs
sorry -
it may make Demps 7 walks look better
"Hey.....Cubs win!!!" ---Harry
"Cubs win....what a lucky break!!" ---Harry
2 hits x 7 walks = 14 million for DEMP!!
"Hey.....Cubs win!!!" ---Harry
"Cubs win....what a lucky break!!" ---Harry
It may be time to just step away from the computer for awhile...
You’ve gone off the deep end on this one.
Seriously TJ, you have gone past the point of being rational now...
these posts are just going to make it that much more difficult for ANYONE to take any valid points you try to make in the future seriously. It’s way past time to either admit you’re going a bit overboard or just put the breaks on the snarky-attackmode-kool-aid-accusations.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Oct 31, 2011 3:24 PM CDT up reply actions 5 recs
Your profile says
that you’ve made over 18,000 comments since August 2009.
Discounting 4 months apiece for the offseason (when your comment rate presumably goes down), that’s 18,000 comments in roughly 18 months of baseball since you joined.
1,000 comments per month.
And not one ounce of thought behind any of them.
IMPRESSIVE!
by Orval Overall on Oct 31, 2011 4:02 PM CDT up reply actions 10 recs
i know the one ounce of thought comment wasn't literal...
but occasionally he offers something pretty good…its just that more often his kool-aid attack mode button gets stuck….
So i you can give you can take it.
WHY ISN'T THIS GREEN YET?!?
rec’d
"Wait, are you saying I'm a sunshine-pumping, koolaid-drinking, Soriano-loving, rainbow-rising, unicorn-riding, double-clutching, Sweet Lou-backing, Hendry-supporting, hey hey whaddya saying, Cubs are going all the waying, glass is overflowing, Rothschild is all-knowing, Cubs fan? - ballhawk
Or in other words, a comment every 43.8 seconds.
If the Cubs still have a chance, no matter how small, it’s still Go Cubs, damn the math and pass the KoolAid. I'm a Sheeple and proud of it!
...err ...I meant 43.8 minutes
If the Cubs still have a chance, no matter how small, it’s still Go Cubs, damn the math and pass the KoolAid. I'm a Sheeple and proud of it!
feels like 43.8 seconds.
So i you can give you can take it.
by epsilon on Nov 1, 2011 10:06 AM CDT up reply actions 3 recs
What I would like TJ is for
you to act like an adult instead of a little child who wants their way and they want it now.
What I would like is for everyone to get the stick out their collective a**.....
by TJ11 on Nov 1, 2011 2:40 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Said the guy who enjoys finding sticks.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Nov 1, 2011 2:45 PM CDT up reply actions
Hey Princess!
Anyways, I’m sittin’ there, lookin’ at the menu when what comes out of the bathroom but Princess Lee Radziwill. You know, that classy lady that no one’s really sure where she’s the princess of? Well, she was dressed up like a doll in this slinky basic black dress and she’s got real skinny arms with expensive jewelry hangin’ off of ‘em. But then I noticed that Princess Lee had a little teeny-tiny piece of toilet paper stickin’ to the bottom of one of her Gucci shoes. She — listen to this — she was just walkin’ around, up and down, with that little piece of toilet paper just trailin’ behind her, wouldn’t fall off! And the more she walked, the dirtier that toilet paper got. And things started stickin’ to it. There was a fuzzball, a hair, gum, a bug. There was even some fettucini alfredo and a piece of Romaine lettuce! Well, let me tell you that I, Roseanne Roseannadanna, started to lose my appetite. And I yelled, “Hey! Princess Lee! Take that toilet paper off your shoe! What are you tryin’ to do? Make me sick?”
I think it's the smarmy-lookin' guy...
…on the very left, looking directly at the camera.
Baseball is pitching, offensive production, baserunning and defense.
I think eths was on to something there with the 43.8 seconds.
Minor League Contributing Writer, Athletics Nation.
State high point count: 4/50
If you are grouchy, irritable, or just plain mean, there will be a $10 charge for putting up with you.
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Nov 1, 2011 11:27 AM CDT up reply actions
I'm not directing this at you, just trying to keep the....
…comment in this string but TJ has a point, there is a hive mentality on this blog. People that had nothing to do with this conversation are all partaking in the online version of happy circle. Let’s keep piling on.
If you don’t like what TJ or anyone else here has to say then just ignore them.
Guys, hitting is not about muscle. It's simple physics. Calculate the velocity, v, in relation to the trajectory, t, in which g, gravity, of course remains a constant.... It's not complicated. - George Costanza
Sue exactly what have I done or said to you...
…or anyone else, that would warrant that comment. Please. You don’t like some of my opinions? Then move on.
Seems to me that you’re the acting queen bee.
Guys, hitting is not about muscle. It's simple physics. Calculate the velocity, v, in relation to the trajectory, t, in which g, gravity, of course remains a constant.... It's not complicated. - George Costanza
by troutfishin on Nov 1, 2011 2:05 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Maybe you trying to tell
others what to do when in fact you could have followed your own advice and ignored the comments you were complaining about.
Wow, no maybe I'm just trying...
…get people to stop the with this battering collectivist mindset. TJ is one person, does he need all these people including yourself that were not part of the conversation piling on?
Guys, hitting is not about muscle. It's simple physics. Calculate the velocity, v, in relation to the trajectory, t, in which g, gravity, of course remains a constant.... It's not complicated. - George Costanza
by troutfishin on Nov 1, 2011 2:11 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
TF...
TJ wasnt even part of the original conversation. i may not be a part of every conversation on here, but i enjoy reading other conversation and i shouldn’t have to see HILARIOUS!!!!!!! APPROVES!!!!!! DEWITT!!!!!!
smack in the middle of said conversation…it kinda lessens my interest in reading any part of that conversation.
So i you can give you can take it.
by epsilon on Nov 1, 2011 2:15 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
I understand your point
but what I do not understand is the gleeful nature in which people partake in the bashing of others.
Guys, hitting is not about muscle. It's simple physics. Calculate the velocity, v, in relation to the trajectory, t, in which g, gravity, of course remains a constant.... It's not complicated. - George Costanza
no one's gleeful...
in fact, most people, like myself, wish TJ for example, would be the intelligent poster he has shown on occasion…i enjoy the banter, discussion, quasi to serious arguments of people who all wish to see the Cubs win. as long as you bring something intelligent to the argument its a valid argument however far apart the opinions are. schtick,who’s ever it is, is rarely intelligent, and in moderation is usually funny and witty.
So i you can give you can take it.
Some people are gleeful in...
…these occasions ep, some people love conflict, some people like to see others ganged up on. Not all, some.
Guys, hitting is not about muscle. It's simple physics. Calculate the velocity, v, in relation to the trajectory, t, in which g, gravity, of course remains a constant.... It's not complicated. - George Costanza
But you're part of the problem
regardless of how anyone feels about some of TJ’s comments, I’ve noticed in the past including this thread how you pile on when you had no part in the conversation. You have done it time and again and I’ve seen you lead charges to try and get people banned from this website.
Guys, hitting is not about muscle. It's simple physics. Calculate the velocity, v, in relation to the trajectory, t, in which g, gravity, of course remains a constant.... It's not complicated. - George Costanza
by troutfishin on Nov 1, 2011 3:14 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
It's a blog,
Again follow your own advice, if you don’t like what I or others post ignore them. Block my posts if you don’t like reading them.
Why would I do that?
I’m not closed minded enough to only view opinions that I agree with.
Guys, hitting is not about muscle. It's simple physics. Calculate the velocity, v, in relation to the trajectory, t, in which g, gravity, of course remains a constant.... It's not complicated. - George Costanza
That isn't the issue here.
We can all view opinions we don’t agree with and have reasonable discussions.
It’s when people start ad hominem attacks and namecall that I have a problem.
Join us for complete MLB coverage at SB Nation's Baseball Nation
She told me to block her posts.
I wouldn’t do that, because I’m not afraid of words and opinions. That really is what is at issue. Read through this thread and you’ll see that what most people are taking umbrage with difference of opinion, for the most part.
Guys, hitting is not about muscle. It's simple physics. Calculate the velocity, v, in relation to the trajectory, t, in which g, gravity, of course remains a constant.... It's not complicated. - George Costanza
by troutfishin on Nov 1, 2011 7:08 PM CDT up reply actions 3 recs
The real problem is that the issues with TJ go WAY beyond this thread
He has done everything possible to annoy, troll and insult a good percentage of the regular posters here. It’s a mob mentality because he’s most likely done something to directly insult anyone here commenting about him. It’s hard to defend someone because they’ve made a lot of enemies.
I would normally agree with you, and in the case of internet message boards your comments are accurate for 99% of these types of issues, however, dare I say that TJ has brought all of this on himself.
by bdlugz on Nov 1, 2011 3:39 PM CDT up reply actions 9 recs
Speaking as someone who has stuck up for TJ in the past
But has finally had enough of him running around like a mentally deranged kindergartner I have to say…….
rec’d
by Nunyabidness on Nov 1, 2011 3:49 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
there is a freaking hive mentality in EVERY community...
it’s what makes it a freaking community.
And as for your last sentence, there is a difference between ignoring a crying child in a restaurant and telling a grown man to shut up. TJ is slowly morphing into the Ronny-Woo-Woo of BCB.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Nov 1, 2011 2:01 PM CDT up reply actions 4 recs
Even if that is a problem here
…and to a certain extent it is, posting awful one-line hit and run drivel really isn’t the answer.
TJ isn’t “shaking up the establishment” any more than Senor Gato did.
The groupthink here seems to be somewhat by design. The anti-intellectual and anti-stats ranting (as well as quite a few bans) a couple years ago drove away a lot of the diversity of opinions here. Editorial contributions from outside-the-box thinkers like Shawn are sadly few and far between any more.
My point is, any groupthink here comes from the top down, and if you want that to change being a jerk in an internet forum probably isn’t going to help.
This post is the perfect example
You can cite example after example why Aram will not be missed and the only argument you get in return is emotion based.
Guys, hitting is not about muscle. It's simple physics. Calculate the velocity, v, in relation to the trajectory, t, in which g, gravity, of course remains a constant.... It's not complicated. - George Costanza
Huh?
I literally have no idea what you’re saying here. There are lots of logical arguments to be made both for and against Ramirez. There’s plenty of poorly-reasoned arguments on both sides of that fence.
He is gone because he is not worth the investment of money that he wants.
He will be better served as a DH/3B in the AL….
Maybe I wasn't clear enough in my
comment. In this thread, for those commenting about why, with facts, Aram will not be missed, there are people here that will only reply with an emotion based argument.
I was responding to your comments about some being anti-stat and anti-intellectual.
Guys, hitting is not about muscle. It's simple physics. Calculate the velocity, v, in relation to the trajectory, t, in which g, gravity, of course remains a constant.... It's not complicated. - George Costanza
I have a real problem
… with me (because it was clearly aimed at me) being called “anti-stat” and “anti-intellectual”.
That appears to be the response from anyone who is MORE statistically oriented than I am, to any post I make asking for people to view both sides of the issue.
I’d rather not have that kind of stuff here any more. “Anti-intellectual”? Hardly.
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I'm not even sure what "Anti-intellectual" means when directed at you.
When it comes to baseball, you know more than anyone else I know.
Author at Acme Packing Company, SB Nation's Green Bay Packers blog.
State high point count: 4/50
If you are grouchy, irritable, or just plain mean, there will be a $10 charge for putting up with you.
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Nov 1, 2011 5:37 PM CDT up reply actions
Al, truthfully speaking, I didnt...
…even think your name when I typed that. I’m speaking about this particular thread. Some have been giving people facts as to why Aramis was overrated in the minds of some and all I saw where emotion based responses, all steeped in sentimentality rather than facts.
That comment had absolutely nothing to do with you. Sorry if you took it that way.
Guys, hitting is not about muscle. It's simple physics. Calculate the velocity, v, in relation to the trajectory, t, in which g, gravity, of course remains a constant.... It's not complicated. - George Costanza
No problems between us.
Sorry, too, if you felt I was taking it out on you.
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And you completely missed where I said there's plenty of blame to go around to both sides
Claiming that Ramirez doesn’t look like he’s trying hard enough, which is really what the argument against him often boils down to, is an emotional argument.
There are reasonable, fact-based arguments both for and against him. Claiming to be above it while making such arguments yourself is kind of hypocritical.
by Wreckard on Nov 1, 2011 10:16 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
The only portion of your original...
..comment I was responding to was about your comments regarding anti-stat, anti-intellectual discussion. I was in part agreeing with you and I was using the example the this long drawn out argument regarding Aram.
Nowhere did I use the argument that Ram is lazy, my arguments were fact based and the only responses I received in kind were from people like lugz and a couple of other posters that were able to leave emotion out of their argument regarding the legitimacy of Ram as a Cub. I respect discussion as long as visceral reactions can be left out of it.
Read my discussion with someone at the end of this thread as a prime example.
Guys, hitting is not about muscle. It's simple physics. Calculate the velocity, v, in relation to the trajectory, t, in which g, gravity, of course remains a constant.... It's not complicated. - George Costanza
Your argument was not entirely fact based
In fact, the argument against him really comes down to this quote from you:
I generally tend to like players that actually look like they enjoy playing the game of baseball.
That’s an emotional argument, plain and simple. And really the root of the disagreement about him – either the “way he plays the game” makes you dislike him, or it doesn’t.
There are very reasonable fact-based arguments both for and against him – even in this thread. You can claim to be above the emotion of the argument and use that to belittle those disagreeing, but the fact is you’re just as guilty of it.
by Wreckard on Nov 2, 2011 9:07 AM CDT up reply actions 2 recs
That comment was absent...
…(as were all my comments) of personal invective. I’m sorry if you can’t see that but there is an increase in posters on this website, that get increasingly angry if you say something factually negative or state a negative opinion about a player or the organization. That right there indicates a lack of intelligence on some when they can’t keep the name calling out of their comments.
Guys, hitting is not about muscle. It's simple physics. Calculate the velocity, v, in relation to the trajectory, t, in which g, gravity, of course remains a constant.... It's not complicated. - George Costanza
I understand your comment in the context of this thread,
But I refer you to the comments above by Nunyabidness, Al, and others.
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If you are grouchy, irritable, or just plain mean, there will be a $10 charge for putting up with you.
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Nov 1, 2011 5:35 PM CDT up reply actions
Troll!
Wikipedia defines a troll as:
a troll is someone who posts inflammatory, extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community, such as an online discussion forum, chat room, or blog, with the primary intent of provoking readers into an emotional response
You seem to do this constantly. And it has became old about a year and a half ago. I’m not sure why Al permits this, but it detracts from this site and the community. I’m sure I’m not the only one that thinks this. Enough is enough, just stop.
by srwilly on Nov 1, 2011 9:36 AM CDT up reply actions 7 recs
Look, we sheeple need to be insulted on a regular basis!
If the Cubs still have a chance, no matter how small, it’s still Go Cubs, damn the math and pass the KoolAid. I'm a Sheeple and proud of it!
It's strange
that Ramirez was rated a Class B free agent rather than A. The Elias rankings have always been a mystery. Ramirez is ranked against all NL 3B, 2B and SS combined. The ranking include PA, BA, OBP, HR, RBI, FPCT and Total Chances. When the calculation is made at year’s end for the most recent 2 years, the top 20% of those players become Class A. So it seems that PA and Fielding Chances have the same value as OBP and HR. And a triple has the same value as a single.
I sure hope Epstein’s computer has a better formula.
If it wasn't for the injuries, we'd be printing WS tickets right now.
That's why I wrote
for the most recent 2 years
If it wasn't for the injuries, we'd be printing WS tickets right now.
In retrospect
I could have been clearer.
If it wasn't for the injuries, we'd be printing WS tickets right now.
Elias rankings, as noted, include only basic statistics.
At least they’re the same for all players.
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That's why
they’re not representative of many players true value.
If it wasn't for the injuries, we'd be printing WS tickets right now.
all kidding aside, who are some realistic options for 3B next year?
I threw out DJL (if he puts on about 20 pounds in the off season)
Is Headley a legit option? Wright?
any other ideas?
Well, it's Halloween...
…so I’ll throw out a DeWitt/Baker platoon.
Baseball is pitching, offensive production, baserunning and defense.
by daver on Oct 31, 2011 4:23 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
That's the scariest thing I've ever heard.
by Jody Jody Davis on Oct 31, 2011 4:29 PM CDT up reply actions
Well, there's probably a good chance at least 1 or 2 spots in the Cubs lineup will be scary next year
If it has to be 3B, so be it. But I would hope a DeWitt/Baker platoon would mean some significant improvements elsewhere to make up for that. Very significant.
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
Two words:
The Franchise!
by BrewCrew'sPrinceofDarkness on Oct 31, 2011 5:21 PM CDT up reply actions
Another reason why Aramis should be considered irrellevent.
Here are some names of third baseman that have won World Series over the last 10 years.
Pablo Sandoval – Will be a really good hitter – wasn’t a great offensively in 2010 but was very good defensively.
Pedro Feliz – 15-20hr w. 65rbi, ++ Fielder.
Bill Mueller – 12 – 15hr – 60 rbi – .300 avg. , vacuum cleaner at 3b.
Joe Crede – was never a very good hitter, put up some decent numbers in 2005 but he was one of the best defensive third baseman outside of Scott Rolen.
Matt Williams – In 2001 he was on the downside of career at 35 but he could still play his position.
Moral of the story, stop focusing so much on what someone can do offensively. Ask can they get on base, can they contribute collectively and can they help get my pitcher out of a jam?
Guys, hitting is not about muscle. It's simple physics. Calculate the velocity, v, in relation to the trajectory, t, in which g, gravity, of course remains a constant.... It's not complicated. - George Costanza
some of that helps if we don't have so many pitchers that HABITUALLY get into jams at the drop of a hat
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Oct 31, 2011 4:26 PM CDT up reply actions
Right.
I think Theo & Jed’s focus should be on pitching this offseason.
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i really hope jedstein doesn't go after CJ wilson
THEOOOOOOOOO (and Hoyer)
by jesus christos on Oct 31, 2011 4:36 PM CDT up reply actions
Hm, "Jedstein" is kinda catchy as well.
Baseball is pitching, offensive production, baserunning and defense.
And a lot of the jams are due to Cub players inability to field their position.
Guys, hitting is not about muscle. It's simple physics. Calculate the velocity, v, in relation to the trajectory, t, in which g, gravity, of course remains a constant.... It's not complicated. - George Costanza
Aramis has a .342 career OBP.
And it went as high as .389 in an individual season (2009).
There’s nothing irrelevant about him — both in terms of Cubs history and his current value on the free agent market.
Baseball is pitching, offensive production, baserunning and defense.
other than the fact that he can't field his positiion
you would figure that for a guy playing as long as he has for the Cubs would have more than 20 DP’s turned more than once in his career.
His PO’s and Assists are usually really low as well.
Guys, hitting is not about muscle. It's simple physics. Calculate the velocity, v, in relation to the trajectory, t, in which g, gravity, of course remains a constant.... It's not complicated. - George Costanza
I'm not sure of your point.
I agree that it is time to move on but are you saying he was irrelevant for his whole time here? He never was a great fielder but he did get on base. He had some very good years. No one is saying he belongs in the HOF.
The fact that bad offensive 3rd baseman won World Series doesn’t say anything. You can find bad players on every WS team. They have to have players to make up the hitting at other positions. The Cubs problem is that they have bad fielders at almost every position.
John Grabow - Who will pay you $4.8 million in 2012?
I didn't say that they were bad offensive 3rd baseman
They were adequate offensively but they were above average to great defensively. It just lends itself to the point of “what is more important”. Pitching and Defense or Offense. Again, the way people romanticize people like Ramirez on this site, seems to me that people are more interested in what a player has to offer only on the offensive end.
Again this team needs baseball players not just hitters.
Guys, hitting is not about muscle. It's simple physics. Calculate the velocity, v, in relation to the trajectory, t, in which g, gravity, of course remains a constant.... It's not complicated. - George Costanza
If you understood the formulae
that weight the importance of run creation and run prevention in terms of importance to winning balls games you would know that AmRam was and is valuable for a team looking to win games.
Plus he is a 5war offensive player and a -1war defensive player. Which means he is a 4war player overall. Imagine if the Cubs had a 4war player at every position?
"Giggs gets past Viera, past Dixon, who comes back at him, it's a wonderful run from GIGGS!!!" - Martin Tyler
"Are you out of your fucking mind? You think I'm just going to rape you on the off chance that hopefully you're into that shit?" - Louis CK
Nucks Misconduct's Prodigal Son, Chief Curmudgeon, and Chief Hunk.
by Section 312 on Oct 31, 2011 10:37 PM CDT up reply actions
I understand metrics just fine
Aram was a 3.8 WAR players last year. His Fld of -7.9 was pathetic, his -4.9 Bsr was pathetic. As I’ve been saying Aramis is a hitter, he does nothing else well on a baseball field except hit. The Cubs need baseball players.
As I pointed out to someone else, check out the stats of Alberto Callaspo with the Angels. Nothing overly impressive offensively but he is great defensively and is an all around good baseball player. His +4 WAR last season is pretty shocking when you take into account Aramis’s good offensive numbers compared to Collaspo’s.
Guys, hitting is not about muscle. It's simple physics. Calculate the velocity, v, in relation to the trajectory, t, in which g, gravity, of course remains a constant.... It's not complicated. - George Costanza
So dWAR is flawed when it says Ramirez isn't as bad as you think he is
But it works just fine when you want to say Callaspo deserved every bit of the 4+ WAR he had last year?
Either it’s broken or it’s not… it’s not a case by case basis.
Okay this is weird because I replied to 312 about 2 hours ago
and the comment is not here.
I’m not saying that dWAR and the metrics that go into that stat are useless, their just more subjective than offensive that make up oWAR.
People have to understand, and I think you do, that when you see a fielder +1 or more dWAR over another player, that’s a pretty big leap and I think people tend to look at that stat and think that there isn’t much difference between the two. defensive stats should play a bigger role in figuring out who’s who. Callaspo’s stats from last year put him head and shoulders above Aram last year especially if you look at it from the perspective of a GM. Value/Production.
Guys, hitting is not about muscle. It's simple physics. Calculate the velocity, v, in relation to the trajectory, t, in which g, gravity, of course remains a constant.... It's not complicated. - George Costanza
he has a noodle arm
plus i think he wants to get a premium deal that hendry liked to give out of prime players if you ask me starlin could play third base hes a reactionary feilder and has a great arm
THEOOOOOOOOOOO to the rescue
by southsidecubbiefan on Oct 31, 2011 4:28 PM CDT reply actions
Only if we wash him with Clearasil first.
If the Cubs still have a chance, no matter how small, it’s still Go Cubs, damn the math and pass the KoolAid. I'm a Sheeple and proud of it!
He's no longer Al Dente??
If the Cubs still have a chance, no matter how small, it’s still Go Cubs, damn the math and pass the KoolAid. I'm a Sheeple and proud of it!
by eths on Nov 1, 2011 5:09 AM CDT via iPhone app up reply actions
But he's as accurate as Tebow
You want him to add 20-30 feet to his every throw to first?
[...]when Giants coach Steve Owen, a certified defensive genius, was asked how he planned to stop Nagurski, he said: "With a shotgun, as he’s leaving the dressing room."
by NobodySpecial on Oct 31, 2011 8:21 PM CDT up reply actions
me too
he was great when the team was great, and often disappeared when the team was bad. i found it hard to get excited about him, because he didn’t come across as excited about the game.
he was the kind of hitter you’d love to have on your team, but not the kind of person i’d be looking for. he wasn’t a bad guy, he just didn’t seem like a leader or positive influence.
No Cubbiegoon, I am Deep Goat
by tomas21 on Oct 31, 2011 7:19 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Yep, well said.
And I really have concerns about his recent lack of any defensive prowess at the hot corner.
by deadcatbounce on Oct 31, 2011 8:36 PM CDT up reply actions
What would Jim Hendry have done?
Then do the opposite.
If it wasn't for the injuries, we'd be printing WS tickets right now.
I'm kind of surprised about one thing.
Am I the only one who looks at this headline and thinks of “So Long, and Thanks for All the Fish”?
by Jody Jody Davis on Oct 31, 2011 5:39 PM CDT reply actions
I didn't want to mention The Fish
If the Cubs still have a chance, no matter how small, it’s still Go Cubs, damn the math and pass the KoolAid. I'm a Sheeple and proud of it!
by eths on Nov 1, 2011 5:11 AM CDT via iPhone app up reply actions
Now you tell me...
If the Cubs still have a chance, no matter how small, it’s still Go Cubs, damn the math and pass the KoolAid. I'm a Sheeple and proud of it!
Why I uttered that very phrase at a Long John Silver's last night.
Baseball is pitching, offensive production, baserunning and defense.
It was Halloween
Scary stuff.
I don’t want to play golf. When I hit a ball, I want someone else to go chase it.
by cub in louies nest on Nov 1, 2011 5:56 PM CDT via iPhone app up reply actions
c'mon man...
This was a smart move. I am a huge Rami fan. Even before he came to the Cubs as a throw in with Lofton mid-season ‘03. It’ll be a task to replace his bat. I think the front office has a plan though- so based on this intelligent move; I’ll wait & see.
His legs have been terrible for years & he plays through a lot of pain. I’m guessing 2 more years is all the more he’ll play.
I'm a truth teller, I'm a risk taker, I'm like Johnny Cash - I walk the line...
by Jimmyeatworld on Oct 31, 2011 9:37 PM CDT via mobile reply actions
Later bud
It’s been a slice.
Hope you can get your big contract, you probably will.
If not, the Cubs may be willing to talk on a deal say 3-for-30 or 3-for-35.
Just win the next game...!
I would do this contract in a heartbeat
16mm/year, no way. 10mm/year so that we can focus on improving the middle of the field and 1st. no brainer. Crazy how big of a difference that is.
$6M will still buy a little something if you shop carefully.....
But I do think Ramirez will benefit from scarcity effect and get more than the Cubs will pay. At that point, I say, “Thanks and good luck.”
It's all bittersweet
On the one hand, he anchored a position for us that had been dreadfully covered for who knows how long. His bat packed dynamite more often than not, but…
it’s time for him to go and for us to start thinking about the future. My fear is that Aramis’ production will decline even more, and it’s no good for us to have someone who starts this slow. You were awesome for us Aramis, I hope you continue to have success elsewhere.
And now, we roll the dice with 3B.
www.facebook.com/craighudak
by Craig in South Bend on Nov 1, 2011 11:07 AM CDT reply actions
Goodbye ARam.
It hasn’t always been good, but I have to say I enjoyed watching you play at third for many years. In truth, you were the only third baseman I have known as a Cubs fan, and things won’t seem the same without you.
Best wishes.
Minor League Contributing Writer, Athletics Nation.
State high point count: 4/50
If you are grouchy, irritable, or just plain mean, there will be a $10 charge for putting up with you.
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Nov 1, 2011 11:23 AM CDT reply actions
ARam - You hit many, I caught several, you signed one. It was fun. Gracias.
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
by ballhawk on Nov 1, 2011 11:45 AM CDT reply actions 3 recs
cool
"Well-behaved women seldom make History"---Laurel Thatcher Ulrich
by cooliogirl47 on Nov 1, 2011 12:44 PM CDT up reply actions
Yep. But it will have to wait until after lunch...
10 minutes west of downtown Milwaukee stands Gilles Frozen Custard. Every single workday that Selig is at home in Milwaukee, he sits down for lunch at this restaurant best known for their custards and hot dogs. Despite their specialties, Selig’s meal of choice is a grilled cheese sandwich. On Wednesday’s, Selig has been known to go crazy and order two grilled cheese sandwiches.
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
Gilles is about 5 minutes from Miller Park.
Have been there. Good stuff.
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Just head west on Bluemound Road
On the south side of the street. Milwaukee has a plethora of good custard joints.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Nov 1, 2011 1:08 PM CDT up reply actions
Is that rib joint still around? I think it was called Saz's. Good ribs...
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
Still was when I went there a couple of years ago
’Twas very good. Not far from the ballpark, either.
Milwaukee is just loaded with good, accessible, affordable places to eat/drink/be merry.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Nov 1, 2011 1:46 PM CDT up reply actions
Very Cool.
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State high point count: 4/50
If you are grouchy, irritable, or just plain mean, there will be a $10 charge for putting up with you.
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Nov 1, 2011 12:54 PM CDT up reply actions
cool - thanks. watching the "pre-game" chatter now.
Had my wedding reception in that room. Last day of regular season in 2008 (Cubs finished on the road). Needless to say, it was the last event at Wrigley that ended well that year. (Yes – I’m looking at you, James Loney!)
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
Yes, but the revolution will not.
Baseball is pitching, offensive production, baserunning and defense.
by daver on Nov 1, 2011 2:53 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Theo mentioned in the press conference
that ARam is most likely gone to another team in a multi-year deal. Decision on Quade within the week. It seemed as if he’s already decided to bring in a new manager and may be negotiating terms.
If it wasn't for the injuries, we'd be printing WS tickets right now.
If you're going to rebuild, then rebuild...
why keep around a 3B who has always been sub-par defensively (although he did improve) and will be well past his prime by the time the Cubs are competitive again? I’ve never been a big ARam fan… that being said he did hold down the fort at 3B for longer than anyone in 40 years so I wish him well wherever he ends up but I’ll be glad it isn’t here.
by 1060westaddison on Nov 1, 2011 4:51 PM CDT up reply actions
New culture
requires new players
If it wasn't for the injuries, we'd be printing WS tickets right now.
Not necessarily 100% new players, though.
And you can’t do that, anyway.
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Well said but...
…he was all over the map defensively, fast twitch movements to slow to turn a double play, and the range of a guy trapped in a tall box that’s about 2 feet wide.
Will he be missed, not by me. I generally tend to like players that actually look like they enjoy playing the game of baseball.
Good for him though, for his consistency…..
Guys, hitting is not about muscle. It's simple physics. Calculate the velocity, v, in relation to the trajectory, t, in which g, gravity, of course remains a constant.... It's not complicated. - George Costanza
Say all you want about his lack of range & defensive shortcomings...
Get a grip though. You aren’t freakin’ Kreskin! Players that look like they enjoy playing the game? What a crock of shit. Oh, and per your incredible ESP- Ramirez is lazy too. How do you know? Have you followed his career since he became a MLer? Have a intimate friendship with him & he told you? I doubt it. If you did you would know that Ramirez has had major issues with his legs pretty much his entire career & that he plays through a tremendous amount of pain every time he goes out on the diamond.
If you don’t want him around, fine. Just don’t post your snarky shit that has no basis in fact, while at the same time slamming other posters who actually provide facts.
Oh, and if/when we have another 3B that can’t provide the offense that Ramirez did, but is better defensively; I don’t wanna read yer gripin’. Pretty sure I will though. Oh well…
Go ahead & respond in a slamming post- I don’t give a shit.
I'm a truth teller, I'm a risk taker, I'm like Johnny Cash - I walk the line...
by Jimmyeatworld on Nov 1, 2011 9:48 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions 2 recs
This is exactly what I'm talking about
some people here cannot respond to others without getting emotional.
My comment is just one mans opinion. Factual in parts? Yes. Opinionated in another part yes? Yes.
It’s a shame that your response got down to the visceral, emotional level.
.
Guys, hitting is not about muscle. It's simple physics. Calculate the velocity, v, in relation to the trajectory, t, in which g, gravity, of course remains a constant.... It's not complicated. - George Costanza
Just as I suspected...
I call you on your BS, and you come back citing me as an example of being emotional.
What is a shame is your subjective treatment of facts to suit your position. You take it further though, and ascribe falsehoods; passing them off as your opinion.
I generally like posters who post as if they know how to carry on a rational debate.
Good for you though, for your consistency…
I'm a truth teller, I'm a risk taker, I'm like Johnny Cash - I walk the line...
by Jimmyeatworld on Nov 1, 2011 11:18 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
To have a rational debate one should refrain from emotional rhetoric
which for two consecutive comments you have failed to do.
Please tell me which falsehoods I’ve ascribed to Aramis Ramirez. First off, I did not call him lazy. Those were your words.
Is he bad defensively?
Please tell me btw, who have I slammed" with my comments on this site? Good luck with that, you have almost 600 comments to pour through and you won’t find one personal attack or a slam aimed at any one person on this blog site.
Again tell how Aram’s inability to complete a double play is a falsehood. Tell me how his RF is not piss poor. Please tell me where I’m wrong, with facts this time, not emotion.
Guys, hitting is not about muscle. It's simple physics. Calculate the velocity, v, in relation to the trajectory, t, in which g, gravity, of course remains a constant.... It's not complicated. - George Costanza
What was nonsensical about my post? Because it contained perceived...
….snarkiness? I’m sorry that I’m not sunshine and roses here but if you can point to the nonsense in my post besides the opinion/observation about Ramirez not enjoying baseball, I would like you to point out what it is.
Guys, hitting is not about muscle. It's simple physics. Calculate the velocity, v, in relation to the trajectory, t, in which g, gravity, of course remains a constant.... It's not complicated. - George Costanza
I like the decision...
…if it indicates a change in how decisions are made. Aramis is a good player but the Cubs are not likely to compete in 2012-2013, which is when he’s more likely to provide value equivalent to an extension. Beyond that I’d be more risk averse as he could start declining quickly. For a contending team that needs the production next year and 2013 then it makes more sense to have to take on the extra years to a degree, but for the Cubs it doesn’t make much sense.
I hope Aramis gets the kind of contract that he wants, he’s a good player and hopefully he joins a winner. For the Cubs, I hope this is indicative of them being able to assess what kind of team they actually have and then making the wiser mid-long-term decision.
this is proof that what Theo said is what he is doing
in his intro he said that you pay players for what they WILL do not what they HAVE done.
Aramis has done a lot for us, and still has some gas left, but he is on the wrong side of his career to invest in long term.
Chronologically inept since 2060
Q: Why did Chuck Norris cross the road?
A: Ditka
Ditka's mustache can kill two stones with one bird
It is better to spend money like there's no tomorrow than to spend tonight like there's no money! - Irish toast.
And he's really bad defensively which goes contrary to a coherently built team
one in which I believe Epstein will construct.
Guys, hitting is not about muscle. It's simple physics. Calculate the velocity, v, in relation to the trajectory, t, in which g, gravity, of course remains a constant.... It's not complicated. - George Costanza
i look more at the pitch count
Theo preaches that OBP and taking a lot of pitches is what is needed and that is not Aramis’ style (nor any Cub currently on the roster). His defense is not great, but I would venture to believe that there are much worse out there
Chronologically inept since 2060
Q: Why did Chuck Norris cross the road?
A: Ditka
Ditka's mustache can kill two stones with one bird
It is better to spend money like there's no tomorrow than to spend tonight like there's no money! - Irish toast.
by Cubbie-Tim on Nov 1, 2011 10:15 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
I don't care what you ARam haters say ..
.. I will miss that guy at 3rd and so will the Cubs.
And that walkoff moment in 2007 was one of the sweetest memories a Cub fan could ever fan. Where were YOU when he launched that thing? Any true Cub fan will know.
It was a thing of beaut. ARam, it was sweet. Hope you’ll come back, but I doubt the Theo Machine will have you. Thanks!
Blue mountains high .. Blue valleys low
I don't know which way we shall go ..
One summer dream .. one summer dream ..
coda
ELO, 1975
by cubnational on Nov 4, 2011 2:14 PM CDT reply actions 1 recs
Where were YOU when he launched that thing?
In the left field bleachers, staring at it in disbelief. One of the best games I’ve seen.
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small ball
keep repeating that over and over.with aramis and pena gone this team has no power at all.dont know what theo has up his sleeve but right now this team looks even worse than the 11 team.i think we can trust theo to put together a good team in the long run.not next year though.
5 years
ago i was dreading losing aramis.not so much now.time for everyone to move on.we have to find players that wont worry about goats curses or bartman.
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