Cubs 40-Man Roster Moves
by Al Yellon on Nov 18, 2011 5:13 PM CST
in Chicago Cubs News
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This afternoon, the Cubs made several moves involving the 40-man roster.
Outrighted off the roster were Esmailin Caridad, Lou Montanez and Kyle Smit. Caridad was once thought to be a candidate to be a solid middle reliever, but he never made it. Montanez was a fill-in and didn't appear likely to make it past 2011. Smit, one of the minor leaguers acquired in the Ted Lilly deal, never made it either.
Added to the 40-man roster were: 24-year-old left-handed reliever Jeff Beliveau, 21-year-old infielder Junior Lake, 22-year-old infielder Josh Vitters and 22-year-old outfielder Matt Szczur. Lake and Vitters both played in the Arizona Fall League just concluded; it's conceivable, but not likely, that one or both could be in play for a major league spot in 2012. Szczur will probably play 2012 at Double-A. It's also possible that Beliveau will be in the running for a bullpen spot next year.
Because certain people here keep track of such things, the 40-man roster currently stands at 34.
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Esmalin Caridad!
The next Marmol!
Also, I know nothing about Jeff Beliveau. Seems like an interesting move, given that the Cubs have two solid lefties in the pen (Marshall and Russell) with Scott Maine still floating around.
Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.
Sigh...once more for old time's sake:
Baseball is pitching, offensive production, baserunning and defense.
Throwing out the SenorGato chapter ...
there have been two prolonged debates on this site in the past few years that literally made me force myself from the computer before I said anything I regretted.
One revolved around Caridad. I STILL can’t believe how many BCBers were just fine with the bullpen going into 2010 — when the best righty option after Marmol was a toss up between Caridad, Justin Berg and Shark (2010 Shark).
I still can’t fathom how so BCBers were seemingly OK with said pen because, hey, Marmol came out of nowhere in 2007.
Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.
I always thought Caridad had potential.
Not that I don’t like Guzman, but is he still on the roster? He’s too much of an injury risk. I’d rather have Penny Hardaway.
"Whenever one finds himself in the majority, it is time to step back and reflect," Mark Twain.
by WindisBlowingOut! on Nov 18, 2011 5:33 PM CST up reply actions
Guzman is not on the roster.
I suspect he’ll get a NRI to spring training for one last shot.
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He did seem to have a good arm
And I wasn’t on the board then, but it was clear that bullpen was short. That’s why I thought Z going to the pen would work. I still think if they had sat down with him & explained it right, it could’ve worked. Instead it didn’t & the season was ruined.
The sun is up. They sky is blue. It's beautiful, and so are you. Dear Prudence, won't you come out to play? ~Lennon & McCartney
by SouthWabashSoul on Nov 18, 2011 11:02 PM CST up reply actions
IMHO....I think that was a big problem with the former Front Office...
if they had sat down with him & explained it right, it could’ve worked
they didn’t seem to have a definite plan, couldn’t explain to the public or to the players.
"Well-behaved women seldom make History"---Laurel Thatcher Ulrich
by cooliogirl47 on Nov 18, 2011 11:08 PM CST up reply actions
I agree with you. They seemed more reactive than proactive.
If the Cubs still have a chance, no matter how small, it’s still Go Cubs, damn the math and pass the KoolAid. I'm a Sheeple and proud of it!
Spelling and grammar errors are included for creative and artistic reasons.
by eths on Nov 19, 2011 4:07 AM CST via mobile up reply actions
Well, I was one of those people.
Clearly, I was wrong.
It could have worked. It didn’t. We’re way past that. Why bring it up again?
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Because Caridad was released today?
Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.
Again, why bother with the rehash?
He’s gone. Let it go.
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This reminds me of yesterday when JeffMills brought up Ryno
and then when people responded to him he started in with the “let it go!”
You made a post that talked specifically about a player, it’s a bit silly to try and stop certain discussions about him.
by Nunyabidness on Nov 18, 2011 9:02 PM CST up reply actions
It's like saying "let it go" is a Jedi mind trick
“These are not the players I was talking about. Pretend this never happened…”
www.facebook.com/craighudak
by Craig in South Bend on Nov 18, 2011 9:13 PM CST up reply actions
Well, there's no point in reigniting that debate...
…but relief pitchers are highly unpredictable and you never know when one might surprise you. I think many of us just thought: Let’s start here and make adjustments as needed. I don’t think any of us were thrilled with the pen as it started out.
Baseball is pitching, offensive production, baserunning and defense.
But I need something to argue about, daver!
Kidding. I don’t mean to offend anyone who was on the other side of the aisle on that issue. It was just extremely stunning to me at the time.
Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.
"At the time"
being the key words. Almost two years later, let it rest.
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So, what you're saying is ...
you don’t want to talk about this anymore? Just to be clear …
You know, I didn’t just bring this up out of the blue, Al. Caridad was in the news today. I’ll drop it — I was trying to drop it with my last comment — but I’ve got to say I’m surprised that this is apparently so annoying to you. If you thought I was picking on you, in particular, that wasn’t my intent.
And, for the record, I think it’s weird that you’re apparently against talking about the past. This wasn’t a random comment. Again, Esmalin Caridad was released today.
But I am, as of now, dropping it.
Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.
I share in your surprisedness
If Al did not want to have Caridad to be a topic of discussion, then why make this post to begin with?
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
how about a switch-hitting outfielder with a little fire in his belly? I think one just became a free agent again...
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
2nd base could use some help...
Brian Roberts?
by EcoGeek on Nov 19, 2011 7:39 AM CST via iPhone app up reply actions
The look on Wedge's face sums up [name redacted]'s career.
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Hire Wedge?
If the Cubs still have a chance, no matter how small, it’s still Go Cubs, damn the math and pass the KoolAid. I'm a Sheeple and proud of it!
Spelling and grammar errors are included for creative and artistic reasons.
Yes! YES! Jimmy H Y.E.S.! :]
Hiya shoe…
There are no facts, only interpretations.
Friedrich Nietzsche
Lets Go Theo!!! 10/13/2011
Jim Hendrix... Oh never mind...
If the Cubs still have a chance, no matter how small, it’s still Go Cubs, damn the math and pass the KoolAid. I'm a Sheeple and proud of it!
Spelling and grammar errors are included for creative and artistic reasons.
by eths on Nov 19, 2011 4:10 AM CST via mobile up reply actions
Well, I'm not going there.
Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.
I know I WASN"T happy about it!!!!! Had to fight all the time with those who were.
by TJ11 on Nov 18, 2011 9:02 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Hey TJ11
I think you know me well enough to know I was just messin with you on other board? I was sad to see I did in fact start a lil tussle… geeze!
There are no facts, only interpretations.
Friedrich Nietzsche
Lets Go Theo!!! 10/13/2011
Whew!
(kinda s.a.d. aint it?) OT- any big turkey day plans?
There are no facts, only interpretations.
Friedrich Nietzsche
Lets Go Theo!!! 10/13/2011
...we're having paella!
just sayin’
"Well-behaved women seldom make History"---Laurel Thatcher Ulrich
by cooliogirl47 on Nov 18, 2011 10:42 PM CST up reply actions
Hiya cooliogirl!
No “gumbo-laya”? :] Just made w/ 6#s meat…nummy
There are no facts, only interpretations.
Friedrich Nietzsche
Lets Go Theo!!! 10/13/2011
And...wuz paella?
(asks the ignorant cook :])
There are no facts, only interpretations.
Friedrich Nietzsche
Lets Go Theo!!! 10/13/2011
Spanish seafood dish...made with lots of saffron...it's yummy
"Well-behaved women seldom make History"---Laurel Thatcher Ulrich
by cooliogirl47 on Nov 18, 2011 11:00 PM CST up reply actions
altho it has chicken and pork too
"Well-behaved women seldom make History"---Laurel Thatcher Ulrich
by cooliogirl47 on Nov 18, 2011 11:02 PM CST up reply actions
...
If the Cubs still have a chance, no matter how small, it’s still Go Cubs, damn the math and pass the KoolAid. I'm a Sheeple and proud of it!
Spelling and grammar errors are included for creative and artistic reasons.
by eths on Nov 19, 2011 4:23 AM CST via mobile up reply actions
ours looks just like that and almost that big of a pan....
(paella means big pan)
"Well-behaved women seldom make History"---Laurel Thatcher Ulrich
by cooliogirl47 on Nov 21, 2011 3:15 PM CST up reply actions
Have you had really good paella?
Oh, it’s an orgiastic feast for the senses. A festival of sights, sounds and colors.
WWOZ.org - New Orleans Jazz and Heritage Station
by Gibbon Jockey on Nov 21, 2011 1:55 PM CST up reply actions
...and smells! Those are my sentiments exactly....beats the hell out of turkey anyday!
Paella is one of my all-time favorite dishes. I do make a turkey the weekend after Thanksgiving tho :)
"Well-behaved women seldom make History"---Laurel Thatcher Ulrich
by cooliogirl47 on Nov 21, 2011 3:14 PM CST up reply actions
Not that you asked but Ill be in Scranton PA this year
wifes grandma lives there. What a hole!!
"Hey.....Cubs win!!!" ---Harry
"Cubs win....what a lucky break!!" ---Harry
the towns a hole not her grandma
grandma is hilarious and looks just like Mrs Doubtfire
"Hey.....Cubs win!!!" ---Harry
"Cubs win....what a lucky break!!" ---Harry
LOL! I hope
you guys have a fantastic time! :] (funny “hole” line!)
There are no facts, only interpretations.
Friedrich Nietzsche
Lets Go Theo!!! 10/13/2011
If I understand correctly Scanton == pits && Grandma == holy
If the Cubs still have a chance, no matter how small, it’s still Go Cubs, damn the math and pass the KoolAid. I'm a Sheeple and proud of it!
Spelling and grammar errors are included for creative and artistic reasons.
by eths on Nov 19, 2011 4:27 AM CST via mobile up reply actions
Ain't no party
Like a Scranton party ‘cuz a Scranton party don’t stop.
by EcoGeek on Nov 19, 2011 7:41 AM CST via iPhone app up reply actions
Chubby Carrier fan, no?
10-25-2011. Theo Epstein joins the Cubs. Now, the fun begins.
A weekend
If the Cubs still have a chance, no matter how small, it’s still Go Cubs, damn the math and pass the KoolAid. I'm a Sheeple and proud of it!
Spelling and grammar errors are included for creative and artistic reasons.
by eths on Nov 19, 2011 4:23 AM CST via mobile up reply actions
Mobile posting fail
A long weekend in Rome. A gift from my GF for my 51st birthday.
I wonder if this means I’m an adult now?
If the Cubs still have a chance, no matter how small, it’s still Go Cubs, damn the math and pass the KoolAid. I'm a Sheeple and proud of it!
Spelling and grammar errors are included for creative and artistic reasons.
by eths on Nov 19, 2011 4:26 AM CST via mobile up reply actions
There are good reasons why we've been together for 20+ years.
Birthday is on the 26th – Thanks for the kind wishes.
If the Cubs still have a chance, no matter how small, it’s still Go Cubs, damn the math and pass the KoolAid. I'm a Sheeple and proud of it!
Spelling and grammar errors are included for creative and artistic reasons.
by eths on Nov 19, 2011 5:06 AM CST via mobile up reply actions
Happy Birthday ETHS!!!
There are no facts, only interpretations.
Friedrich Nietzsche
Lets Go Theo!!! 10/13/2011
not yet... not yet... I'm not that old yet... ;-)
Thanks – I appreciate it.
If the Cubs still have a chance, no matter how small, it’s still Go Cubs, damn the math and pass the KoolAid. I'm a Sheeple and proud of it!
Spelling and grammar errors are included for creative and artistic reasons.
Interesting
Does anyone know where these guys all stood in terms of Rule V vulnerability?
Eamus Ursuli!
Pretty sure Lake and Vitters were eligible if not protected
Szczur has a clause in his contract that guarantees him a 40 man spot.
Beliveau was
Rule 5 eligible
10-25-2011. Theo Epstein joins the Cubs. Now, the fun begins.
It's not a contract clause
but rather a consequence of his signing a second contract that he would be eligible for the Rule 5 draft if the wasn’t protected.
So essentially, he had to be added or lost.
by Josh Timmers on Nov 18, 2011 11:13 PM CST up reply actions
When I saw this, I first wondered what the Sveum rule is.
If the Cubs still have a chance, no matter how small, it’s still Go Cubs, damn the math and pass the KoolAid. I'm a Sheeple and proud of it!
Spelling and grammar errors are included for creative and artistic reasons.
by eths on Nov 19, 2011 4:28 AM CST via mobile up reply actions
Rule V? Sveum Rule?
I get jokes.
"Whenever one finds himself in the majority, it is time to step back and reflect," Mark Twain.
by WindisBlowingOut! on Nov 19, 2011 12:58 PM CST up reply actions
True
but the original poster made an error. It’s the Rule 5 draft. There is no roman numeral involved.
Unless they didn’t make a mistake and it really is a Sveum Rule.
by Josh Timmers on Nov 19, 2011 1:33 PM CST up reply actions
Guess Flaherty is not likely to factor into the 3B mix
I’m surprised he was left off. Though I it’s no guarantee another team will grab him, he seems like the kind of player a team would want to take in a Rule 5 draft (soliod potential to stick on the MLB roster, position flexibility, high draft pick pedigree).
And yes, Koyie Hill is still here.
That is surprising.
Is today a deadline of some sort or can Theo & Jed still add players going forward?
Baseball is pitching, offensive production, baserunning and defense.
I would think so.
The rule 5 draft is almost three weeks from now.
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I have just learned that today WAS the deadline.
Odd that they left so many open roster spots.
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Wow.
I find it rather surprising they’d leave that many spots open.
I’m limited in searching ability right now, so who are some of the other noteworthy minor league names who will be Rule V eligible??
"Stuff like this is why they should shut off the internet."
by Orval Overall on Dec 17, 2010 1:19 PM CST
by fsuapollo on Nov 18, 2011 5:55 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
Well not necessarily six.
But I’d imagine they’d want more room than normal since the FO is made up of executives with insider knowledge about two teams worth of prospects.
Theo! Good job, Tommy Boy!
We're probably in deep dookie anyway
No harm in trying out a few in ST though. Or maybe this just shows the new FO doesn"t have much faith in our current minor league crop that is Rule V eligible.
Theo! Good job, Tommy Boy!
Anyone in our minor league system that IS rule 5 eligible isnt part of our future plans anyway
I would assume that goes for most teams. Josh Hamiltons in the rule 5 draft are a rare rare thing.
That would be horrible... we'd have to keep them on the roster all year in order to keep them.
"You win because of the quarterback. We have to get that position stabilized. We're fixated on that." -- Jerry Angelo (12.30.2008)
Jerry Angelo trades for Jay Cutler! (4.2.2009)
no silly, otherwise it'd be called the Rule VI draft.
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
Where are you getting this info from?
I never heard of there being a deadline to add players to your 40-man roster. On MLB’s website it says today is the “day to file reserve lists for all Major and Minor League levels”, but I have no idea what that means.
Pat Riley is the devil.
by Poloplaya14 on Nov 18, 2011 10:44 PM CST up reply actions
The deadline for protecting players from the Rule 5 draft...
obviously players can be added later. But Al’s point was that yesterday was the deadline to protect them from getting picked up.
That is surprising...
If the Cubs still have a chance, no matter how small, it’s still Go Cubs, damn the math and pass the KoolAid. I'm a Sheeple and proud of it!
Spelling and grammar errors are included for creative and artistic reasons.
by eths on Nov 19, 2011 4:29 AM CST via mobile up reply actions
I think Vitters should be given a chance to make the 25 man Roster..
maybe Lake if possible.. before you retool the farm system lets see what we have now
This franchise is big enough where you can plan for the future while also playing for the present.- Theo Epstein
by BelieveinBlue2314 on Nov 18, 2011 5:25 PM CST reply actions
I hope he suddenly rises and is ROY
A friend once told me: "I don't buy the idea that a team learns anything from a loss, the only thing they learn is how to lose games."---Knight
Of course, so do I.
but im a tad more realistic.
I would be stunned
Vitters is at least a half season away and Lake is a September call up at best.
Lake should continue to play everyday in the minors, unless he's going to play a position that Castro doesn't occupy. .
"You win because of the quarterback. We have to get that position stabilized. We're fixated on that." -- Jerry Angelo (12.30.2008)
Jerry Angelo trades for Jay Cutler! (4.2.2009)
He should be given a chance
but I don’t think he’s going to be ready. Off to Des Moines or Kodak.
by Josh Timmers on Nov 18, 2011 11:14 PM CST up reply actions
Mr. Yellon is to be commended
With all that’s been breaking the last several days, and being in attendance covering and writing up THE story in MLB today, Al still finds time to post this informative article on the roster – late on a Friday afternoon, no less. Thanks, sir, for all you do to make this a very professional site.
I enjoy this website because it's so interesting to see folks pole vaulting over mouse turds.
by BAMACOLONEL on Nov 18, 2011 5:44 PM CST reply actions 6 recs
hear!hear!
I was almost shocked to see yet another post today!
There are no facts, only interpretations.
Friedrich Nietzsche
Lets Go Theo!!! 10/13/2011
Thanks.
The info came out late in the afternoon, so I posted it. Thought it was worthy of discussion.
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Funny thing was I was about to hit you up on Twitter
to see if you knew when the 40 Man roster had to be announced (I had heard about Lake and seen other teams’ players being added). Then, boom, this story gets posted.
We might be giving up
too early on Caridad. I thought he had a chance to make it.
We'll miss you Big Boy. #10 for Hall of Fame.
by mrcubsfan on Nov 18, 2011 6:42 PM CST via mobile reply actions
I liked Caridad, too, at the time.
But he failed. And got hurt. And he’s 28. Time to move on, I think.
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Brett Jackson
Why isnt Brett being rostered? Any opinions?
Seems like he’s the most likely minor leaguer to debut besides maybe Beliveau.
-- Jerome Horwitz
by KO Stradivarius on Nov 18, 2011 6:56 PM CST via mobile reply actions
They don't have to..
Along with some other names mentioned, Jackson doesn’t need to be protected yet. There is no reason to take up a 40 man spot now even if there is no chance the Cubs will fill up the open spots. It also doesn’t shed any light on whether Jackson or any other prospect will be given a chance in spring and can show up on the opening day roster.
SEMI OT
sounds like Sizemore is going to stay an Indian for one more year.
let's start a pool to see how long he lasts before going on the DL again
THEOOOOOOOOO (and Hoyer)
by jesus christos on Nov 18, 2011 7:36 PM CST up reply actions
There's only 34 spots out of 40 filled??
There’s room for me!! Yeah!!!
"Just shut up and play" - Matt Garza
Me too!
There are 108 beads in a Catholic rosary and there are 108 stitches in a baseball. Who says baseball isn't a religion? (Now #8452 in the Cubs Season Ticket Wait List...)
We need experience...
If the Cubs still have a chance, no matter how small, it’s still Go Cubs, damn the math and pass the KoolAid. I'm a Sheeple and proud of it!
Spelling and grammar errors are included for creative and artistic reasons.
by eths on Nov 19, 2011 7:22 AM CST via mobile up reply actions
Looks like a team with a mandatory mustache policy
"Just shut up and play" - Matt Garza
by RiskyBusiness on Nov 19, 2011 1:39 PM CST up reply actions
Don't forget us!
There are 108 beads in a Catholic rosary and there are 108 stitches in a baseball. Who says baseball isn't a religion? (Now #8452 in the Cubs Season Ticket Wait List...)
More like Crosby, Stills & Nash...
With Neil Young in the background, almost whipping his hair.
"I'd rather hit home runs you don't have to run as hard." -- Dave Kingman
by BucknerKongCardenal on Nov 19, 2011 10:23 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
rec'd for CSNY reference
carry on …
I always turn to the sports section first. The sports page records people's accomplishments; the front page has nothing but man's failures.
~Earl Warren
by lookingdeadred on Nov 20, 2011 10:32 AM CST up reply actions
The new market inefficiency
Roster spots just before the minor league draft. Maybe Jed has a deal in place to trade one of our guys for three of someone else’s that they couldn’t protect. Or is it too late for that?
...formerly known as zambranofan
It does strike me as a bit odd that we would cut ties with someone like Caridad (who has a ton of raw talent)
when we have SIX open spots on the 40 man roster.
I wonder what Jed and Theo have up their sleeves
its awesome
to think that we are cutting guys when there are 6 spots available, and chalk it up to our Front Office having something up their sleeves and not just all around in general dorks.
So i you can give you can take it.
As I posted above
Caridad is 28. Time to move on, I think. I’ll trust Theo & Jed on this one.
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This means the Cubs can sign 6 free agents in the next three weeks.
"I'd rather hit home runs you don't have to run as hard." -- Dave Kingman
by BucknerKongCardenal on Nov 18, 2011 9:40 PM CST reply actions
pujols, fielder, reyes, wilson, madson, beltran
THEOOOOOOOOO (and Hoyer)
by jesus christos on Nov 18, 2011 10:07 PM CST up reply actions
fielder, buehrle, cuddyer, varitek, wakefield, wood
"I'd rather hit home runs you don't have to run as hard." -- Dave Kingman
by BucknerKongCardenal on Nov 18, 2011 10:23 PM CST up reply actions
Soler, Cespedes, Darvish
Fielder, and Buehrle.
Quiet off-season.
10-25-2011. Theo Epstein joins the Cubs. Now, the fun begins.
If the Cards non-tender him:
Theriot!!!
Ok, I’m going, I’m going. It was just an idea, okay? Just. An. Idea.
I just thought, you know, move Castro to second, then…
Okay! I’m going now! Look, I’m going.
Sheesh, people can be SO PICKY sometimes.
by Limey Cub Fan Jay on Nov 19, 2011 11:38 AM CST via mobile up reply actions
Non-tender The RIOT?!
hah! Fat chance…not after the year HE had!!!
There are no facts, only interpretations.
Friedrich Nietzsche
Lets Go Theo!!! 10/13/2011
that's a lot of bingo to be played
THEOOOOOOOOO (and Hoyer)
by jesus christos on Nov 18, 2011 10:46 PM CST up reply actions
Is there any reason the Cubs can't keep Caridad
if he wants to stay and no other team takes him?
The bottom is loaded with nice people, Albert. Only cream and bastards rise
by Doggie Stalker on Nov 18, 2011 10:00 PM CST reply actions
Shouldn't be any reason
If no other team claims him he should become a minor league free agent.
"Just shut up and play" - Matt Garza
by RiskyBusiness on Nov 18, 2011 10:10 PM CST up reply actions
Not that I know of
I’m assuming he’ll be back if no one else makes him a better offer.
by Josh Timmers on Nov 18, 2011 11:15 PM CST up reply actions
He can't leave
unless he’s released or taken in rule V. He’s never been outrighted before so he can’t elect FA, and isn’t yet a 6 year minor league free agent.
by Mulhollandmania on Nov 19, 2011 12:13 PM CST up reply actions
That's right
Caridad was just left unprotected for the Rule V draft. But he has not been released by the Cubs.
"Just shut up and play" - Matt Garza
"Pain is inevitable, suffering is an option." - Dale Sveum
by RiskyBusiness on Nov 19, 2011 2:21 PM CST up reply actions
Ok, that makes more sense to me. I thought they took him OFF the 40 man roster
which would mean waiving or outright releasing him I think. If he’s just unprotected…
by Nunyabidness on Nov 19, 2011 7:23 PM CST up reply actions
Flaherty for Theo?
Only way this seems to make sense.
"I'd rather hit home runs you don't have to run as hard." -- Dave Kingman
by BucknerKongCardenal on Nov 18, 2011 10:14 PM CST reply actions
I'd be OK with that
Flaherty probably would too since he’s from Portland, ME.
by Josh Timmers on Nov 18, 2011 11:16 PM CST up reply actions
I'm hoping Flaherty and DJ are in the mix for 3B
"You win because of the quarterback. We have to get that position stabilized. We're fixated on that." -- Jerry Angelo (12.30.2008)
Jerry Angelo trades for Jay Cutler! (4.2.2009)
Flaherty more than DJ
DJ has no power at all. He might hit .280, but it would be an empty .280.
by Josh Timmers on Nov 19, 2011 1:36 PM CST up reply actions
A bunch of guys left off the roster and thus, unprotected for Rule V
Dae Eun Rhee- Only has made it to High A, but I wouldn’t be surprised if someone at least gives him a shot and takes him. I’m unsure as to why he wasn’t protected, he has a lot of upside.
Jay Jackson- Almost certain to be taken, I think he’s ready to be a ML middle reliever right now, and he can be developed as a starter. With our comical lack of depth in the rotation, I am really wondering why Jay didn’t get protected given the fact we have 6 open spots.
Ryan Flaherty- Left-handed hitting guy who can play 2B, 3B, LF, and SS in a really tight spot? Another one who almost certainly will be taken. Really puzzled as to why he wasn’t protected.
Marwin Gonzalez- A super-sub who has made it to AAA and is only 22? Wouldn’t be surprised if he’s taken.
Jeffry Antigua- High upside lefty who rebuilt value after a horrid 2010. Only reached high A. Might get taken, but I don’t think he would make it through a full season.
Blake Parker- Solid year last year. Might get taken, might not. Not a big deal if we lose him though. His upside is probably a decent closer or good set up guy.
Kyler Burke- Has a ton of potential as a lefty pitcher after finally giving up playing OF. Only has reached Boise as a pitcher, but he has good stuff. I don’t think he could make it through a full season, but if he isn’t on the Iowa reserve list, I wouldn’t be shocked at all to see him taken during the minor league phases of the draft.
All in all, I really wish we would have protected Rhee and Jackson, probably Flaherty too. I think a bunch of these guys are going to be taken in the Rule V draft, but as much of a crapshoot as that draft is, they might all come back, or none of them could come back.
by Mulhollandmania on Nov 19, 2011 12:13 PM CST reply actions
I think the Cubs can still make additions to the 40-man roster
From Baseball America – Teams must file their 40-man rosters by Nov. 20, and only those not at the full allotment of 40 may select players.
Unless that date has been changed.
"Just shut up and play" - Matt Garza
by RiskyBusiness on Nov 19, 2011 2:01 PM CST up reply actions
that article was accurate
in 2002, when that article was published.
by circuitclout on Nov 19, 2011 2:22 PM CST up reply actions
Yep
From mlb.com Important Dates
NOV. 18, 2011
Day to file reserve lists for all Major and Minor League levels.
"Just shut up and play" - Matt Garza
"Pain is inevitable, suffering is an option." - Dale Sveum
by RiskyBusiness on Nov 19, 2011 2:29 PM CST up reply actions
even on the off chance
that any of these guys are taken in the rule 5 draft they aren’t likely to be missed by the cubs. i would have protected flaherty but i still don’t think he’s a sure thing to be an everyday player at the next level.
by circuitclout on Nov 19, 2011 2:05 PM CST up reply actions
While some of them have futures, they would largely clog rosters.
Lake clinched a spot in the AFL.
10-25-2011. Theo Epstein joins the Cubs. Now, the fun begins.
I guess this means the Reds will take one of them
…they would largely clog rosters.
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
Why would it "clog the roster"?
They’ve got 6 open spots. If they find 6 players they are signing as FAs, then you just designate or trade someone at that point.
I trust Jed and Theo… but leaving that many spots open is a bit of a head scratcher for me.
"Stuff like this is why they should shut off the internet."
by Orval Overall on Dec 17, 2010 1:19 PM CST
only if you think the guys left off deserve a spot
if you don’t think someone is a big league player, why keep him?
I always turn to the sports section first. The sports page records people's accomplishments; the front page has nothing but man's failures.
~Earl Warren
by lookingdeadred on Nov 20, 2011 11:59 AM CST up reply actions
IMO, simply as insurance.
For instance, maybe Jay Jackson will never be a major league starter.
And while I absolutely, positively expect the brass to address the SP issue… I also don’t see any harm in protecting Jackson for now. If that depth comes from other areas, then just deal Jackson (for like a low A ball guy) or release him at that point.
"Stuff like this is why they should shut off the internet."
by Orval Overall on Dec 17, 2010 1:19 PM CST
clearly they do not see any point in protecting a guy like JJackson
I always turn to the sports section first. The sports page records people's accomplishments; the front page has nothing but man's failures.
~Earl Warren
by lookingdeadred on Nov 20, 2011 2:35 PM CST up reply actions
I don't think anyone
left off our 40 man will be key contributors in 2012. They would clog rosters (25 man) and probably not contribute. Lee, Beliveau, and Szczur would contribute. Others, not so much.
10-25-2011. Theo Epstein joins the Cubs. Now, the fun begins.
?
Protecting guys like Jay Jackson and Ryan Flaherty wouldn’t necessarily have any impact on the 25 man, as they could stay in Iowa. They are both midseason spare part kind of guys, anyway.
The odd part is that, in a way, Lee and Szczur “clog” the 40 man… as neither is likely to contribute in 2012. Now, they should be protected, but that doesn’t make them likely to help in 2012.
And to be clear, I don’t want anyone to think I’m heartbroken or something over this. I just found it a little odd. But, as I posted above, I trust Theo and Jed to make the right call.
"Stuff like this is why they should shut off the internet."
by Orval Overall on Dec 17, 2010 1:19 PM CST
For a Pittsburgh,
Junior Lake or Matt Szczur would be able to fulfill the role of 25th man. I don’t think Flaherty would last the whole season. I think Theo et al value a spot on the 40 man more than the prior administration.
10-25-2011. Theo Epstein joins the Cubs. Now, the fun begins.
I don't see how you could possibly arrive that conclusion.
Szczur hasn’t reached AA yet and even struggled a little bit at Daytona last year. Lake reached AA but pretty much stunk it up. Flaherty, on the other hand, absolutely mashed the ball while at AA last year. How could you possibly think Lake/Szczur is more major league ready than Flaherty?
Pat Riley is the devil.
Position, position, position.
Lee would be not much worse than Cedeno. Walker and Tabata are better than Flaherty.
10-25-2011. Theo Epstein joins the Cubs. Now, the fun begins.
Huh?
A) Flaherty’s a versatile middle infielder, who by many accounts plays pretty solid defense at all infield positions. Position’s not an issue with him.
B) Cherry pick much? Cedeno’s one of the worst-hitting regulars in all of baseball. Even for a SS, he’s pretty abysmal. Neil Walker, on the other hand, is not a bad hitter. And by the way, I don’t think it’s absurd to think that Flaherty could come up next year and post a .270/.330/.400 line, which is what Walker produced.
Pat Riley is the devil.
by Poloplaya14 on Nov 21, 2011 11:56 AM CST up reply actions
I think it is absurd to think Flaherty would hit that with any significant AB's.
He’ll play in the majors at some point but you are talking about a ROY candidate with those numbers.
John Grabow - Who will pay you $4.8 million in 2012?
.270/.330/.400 are ROY candidate numbers?
Maybe in a really weak year. I wouldn’t say it’s likely that Flaherty comes up and puts up numbers like those, but I do think it’s possible. In 2005, Dan Uggla put up pretty similar numbers at AA to what Ryan Flaherty put up in AA this past year (.297/.378/.502 vs .305/.384/.523, respectively). Uggla was then made a rule 5 pick and put up a .282/.339/.480 line (which BTW weren’t good enough to win ROY). Now, obviously Uggla performed well above anybody’s expectations, but the point is, it’s not impossible for a guy like Flaherty to come up and produce in the big leagues.
Pat Riley is the devil.
IMO that's backwards.
Flaherty would be much more useful as a 25th man. I don’t think you’d want to stunt the growth of Lake or Szczur by having them languish on a big league bench for a year. But I understand why they were protected.
And I don’t think it is about “valuing” the 40 man spot. As I noted, if JJackson and Flaherty are disposable enough to be exposed to the Rule 5, then I don’t see why you wouldn’t fill at least a couple of those 40 man spots for protection… even if you end up dumping the player(s) later.
"Stuff like this is why they should shut off the internet."
by Orval Overall on Dec 17, 2010 1:19 PM CST
If I'm a crappy team, Szczur can play in the outfield
or pinch hit. Lee can play when your SS needs a day off/gets PH for. I like Flaherty. I don’t think he’ll be on anyone’s list of gotta have him.
10-25-2011. Theo Epstein joins the Cubs. Now, the fun begins.
This is Max Ramirez all over again
Remember how so many people were sure he wouldn’t clear waivers at the end of Spring Training before last season? How did that work out?
Most clubs will already have guys like this somewhere in their system. If the Cubs’ system is as threadbare as it’s supposed to be, how likely is it that there are seven guys in it who could survive at the major league level?
by Limey Cub Fan Jay on Nov 19, 2011 2:40 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
Wow, Max Ramirez.
Who some people thought should be the Cubs’ backup catcher in 2011.
He played zero games in the major leagues in 2011, and was recently released for the third time this year.
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Koyie Hill shouldn't have been the
backup either. Castillo and Clevenger should have been.
10-25-2011. Theo Epstein joins the Cubs. Now, the fun begins.
Koyie Hill
shouldn’t be playing professional baseball.
by Mulhollandmania on Nov 19, 2011 4:12 PM CST up reply actions
It's pretty clear that Hill was on the team ...
… because Jim Hendry liked him, for some reason. Supposedly the pitchers liked the way he called games.
His offense was atrocious. Now, maybe Castillo or Clevenger could have hit better, but we don’t know how well they would have played behind the plate.
I assume one of them (likely Clevenger) will be the backup in 2012.
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I hope we see Clevenger
Wouldn’t mind Castillo, but he seems like he still needs some more time in AAA.
by Mulhollandmania on Nov 20, 2011 12:02 AM CST up reply actions
Actually, Castillo has more AAA time than Clevenger
He’s had about 70 games each in 2010 and 2011 in AAA. Clevenger spent about 90 games in AAA in 2009, but then didn’t get back there other than 25 games in 2011.
The selling point on Clevenger over Castillo is that he’s a LH bat (i.e., different from Soto).
by SouthernCub on Nov 20, 2011 12:39 AM CST up reply actions
Oh I know Castillo has spent more time in AAA
I just think he’s developed his skills a lot slower than Clevenger.
by Mulhollandmania on Nov 20, 2011 1:34 AM CST up reply actions
That was my point
Plenty of people figured that clubs all around the league were just waiting to pounce for Ramirez if the Cubs were foolish enough to put him on waivers, but it just wasn’t true. Same thing here.
by Limey Cub Fan Jay on Nov 19, 2011 6:23 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
Blake Parker is 26.
And finishing up his third year in Triple-A. If he were really a MLB possibility, you’d think he’d have had a September callup by now.
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Had a good year in AAA last year
I think he’s the least likely of that group to be taken and losing him wouldn’t be a big deal. I’m just throwing his name out there as a possibility. There are teams who needs middle relievers and might not mind taking a shot.
by Mulhollandmania on Nov 19, 2011 4:12 PM CST up reply actions
none of the guys you listed
are really considered prospects in the cubs system, and it’s as if it’s a well regarded system. so the idea that teams are going to go digging through cubs rejects for major league bullpen help is laughable.
by circuitclout on Nov 19, 2011 5:57 PM CST up reply actions
Probably not in 2012, though.
10-25-2011. Theo Epstein joins the Cubs. Now, the fun begins.
Would anyone hide them on the bench
for a year? I doubt it.
10-25-2011. Theo Epstein joins the Cubs. Now, the fun begins.
Did anyone think Donald Veal would make it through the whole year?
He did though.
by Mulhollandmania on Nov 19, 2011 11:57 PM CST up reply actions
and how'd that work out for the pirates?
by circuitclout on Nov 20, 2011 8:31 AM CST up reply actions
Spent his time with the Bucs in '09 as a 24-year old, then minors ever since.
- December 11, 2008: Drafted by the Pittsburgh Pirates from the Chicago Cubs in the 2008 rule 5 draft.
- December 2, 2010: Granted Free Agency.
- December 10, 2010: Signed as a Free Agent with the Pittsburgh Pirates.
- November 2, 2011: Granted Free Agency.
- November 10, 2011: Signed as a Free Agent with the Chicago White Sox.
Makes you wonder that for every Josh Hamilton, does this process really help more players develop or vice-versa?
by The Deputy Mayor of Rush Street on Nov 20, 2011 10:22 AM CST up reply actions
I think I'm for
increasing the cost to buy, and lowering the MLB requirement. For argument’s sake, 200 K and 45 days.
10-25-2011. Theo Epstein joins the Cubs. Now, the fun begins.
I was responding to the statement that none of those guys were real prospects.
And I actually could see Flaherty being on a roster all season.
Based on them being decent prospects.
In fact I could see Rhee having a breakout season at AA this year.
I think Burke needs a little more time before a real decision is made
He’s still young. I think true judgment on his ceiling as a pitcher should be after this year, when he’s had 2 full years and a Spring Training as a pitcher.
by Mulhollandmania on Nov 20, 2011 12:04 AM CST up reply actions
Jackson and Flaherty
Al, any thoughts on why Jackson and Flaherty didn’t get protection?
by Jonathan Harwell on Nov 19, 2011 8:05 PM CST up reply actions
I don't think any GM could make this statement
with any honesty. “I think Jay Jackson would earn a spot in our big league staff, and keep it all season.”
10-25-2011. Theo Epstein joins the Cubs. Now, the fun begins.
I disagree with that
I could definitely see Jackson sticking with a team out of the bullpen.
Pat Riley is the devil.
If so,
he will get selected. We will get 50 K. I’m fine either way.
10-25-2011. Theo Epstein joins the Cubs. Now, the fun begins.
Right.
I recall people here being upset when Donnie Veal was left unprotected and taken by the Pirates. He’s been pretty underwhelming as a major league player.
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Do you suppose
part of that could be losing a valuable year of minor league development while languishing with infrequent use (and then being overmatched) at the major league level?
"Stuff like this is why they should shut off the internet."
by Orval Overall on Dec 17, 2010 1:19 PM CST
Absolutely.
Which is why, most times, keeping a Rule 5 guy is a waste of time.
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Somewhere, David Patton has begun to weep
by Nunyabidness on Nov 20, 2011 2:32 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Weep or not, it was still a waste of time.
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in some cases, yes
But people here overrate Cubs prospects. Last year there was such angst that the Cubs left Max Ramirez unprotected and no one took him.
John Grabow - Who will pay you $4.8 million in 2012?
by rlpete on Nov 21, 2011 9:53 AM CST via mobile up reply actions
Oh sure.
I was just talking about development, though.
Al seemed to infer that since Veal has languished at the big league level and therefore he was no loss. My only point was that it may be possible he could’ve developed better if he had been able to stay in the minors, rather than sit in the back of the Bucs’ pen.
There’s no doubt that BCBers on the whole overrate Cub prospects.
"Stuff like this is why they should shut off the internet."
by Orval Overall on Dec 17, 2010 1:19 PM CST
That's all true.
I still don’t think Veal was a great loss.
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And I agree.
"Stuff like this is why they should shut off the internet."
by Orval Overall on Dec 17, 2010 1:19 PM CST
I think it was a mistake to leave Jay Jackson and Flaherty off
Both guys could conceivably play well enough to stick on a major league roster and both still have reasonably high upside. The only way this makes sense to me is if these guys are pegged as compensation for Theo.
Pat Riley is the devil.
i agree. Flaherty especially
a guy with his versatility could be very useful, and could also compete for the 3B job. i wonder if he is the compensation for Theo, but then again they said they were tableing those talks until after the rule 5 so it makes no sense to leave him unprotected..
I really don't know why so many people are obsessing about the 40 man roster
34, 41 does it really make any difference?
The bottom is loaded with nice people, Albert. Only cream and bastards rise
by Doggie Stalker on Nov 20, 2011 10:44 PM CST reply actions
Hmmm.
For you of all people, it would appear to.
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Rostergate is kinda like Spring Training for Doggie - she uses it to get ready for Ticketgate ;-)
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
off season silliness
I always turn to the sports section first. The sports page records people's accomplishments; the front page has nothing but man's failures.
~Earl Warren
by lookingdeadred on Nov 21, 2011 8:00 AM CST up reply actions
Is this intended irony?
Or a complete lack of self awareness?
by Nunyabidness on Nov 21, 2011 10:04 AM CST up reply actions
As usual my lack of computer skills prevent me
from using the sarcasm /irony font. I did not think it necessary in this case.
Perhaps a follow up post on how lucky the Cubs were to dump the worthless Sam Fuld would help?
The bottom is loaded with nice people, Albert. Only cream and bastards rise
by Doggie Stalker on Nov 21, 2011 11:38 AM CST up reply actions
Re: Flaherty
Bruce Miles said this regarding Flaherty:
Cubs felt he had about three good weeks offensively this past season in a hitter’s league and that utility guys who can’t play shortstop rarely stick. In other words, they’re not worried about losing him.
-
I think him, Rhee, and Antigua are the only players left off that may get taken.
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