The Additional Wild Card Team: Will It Help The Cubs?
by Al Yellon on Nov 23, 2011 9:30 AM CST
in Chicago Cubs Essays
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Your knee-jerk reaction to the question posed in this headline is probably going to be "No", and if you're thinking about 2012, that's probably the right answer. Most of you think the Cubs aren't going to be a contending team in 2012, and there's no guarantee the second wild-card team in both leagues is going to be added by then, anyway -- this excellent Baseball Nation summary of the new CBA says:
The agreement sets a deadline of March 1, 2012 for deciding whether to expand to two wild-card teams for the 2012 playoffs. If they do so agree, the two wild-card teams in each league will face off in a one-game playoff. The winner will go on to face the team with the best record in that league, even if that team is in the same division as the wild-card winner.
But what about future years? What does this do to the playoffs in general? Would the Cubs have been helped if this system had been in place since 1995, when the three-division-champions-plus-wild-card playoffs began?
After the jump, details on what might have happened since 1995, and what we can look forward to as this system begins -- since it will begin in 2013, if not in 2012.
Chris McKeown at our SB Nation Yankees site Pinstripe Alley has helpfully put together the last 10 years of matchups had the second wild card been in effect (I boldfaced the actual wild card team):
Year American League National League 2011 Boston (90-72) vs. Tampa Bay (91-71) Atlanta (89-73) vs. St. Louis (90-72) 2010 Boston (89-73) vs. New York (95-67) San Diego (90-72) vs. Atlanta (91-71) 2009 Texas (87-75) vs. Boston (95-67) Florida (88-74) vs. Colorado (92-70) 2008 New York (89-73) vs. Boston (95-67) New York (89-73) vs. Milwaukee (90-72) 2007 Detroit (88-74) vs. New York (94-68) San Diego (89-73) vs. Colorado (89-73)* 2006 Chicago (90-72) vs. Detroit (95-67) Philadelphia (85-77) vs. San Diego (88-74) 2005 Cleveland (93-69) vs. New York (95-67) Philadelphia (88-74) vs. Houston (89-73) 2004 Oakland (91-71) vs. Boston (98-64) San Francisco (91-71) vs. Houston (92-70) 2003 Seattle (93-69) vs. Boston (95-67) Houston (87-75) vs. Florida (91-71) 2002 Boston (93-69) vs. Los Angeles (99-63) Los Angeles (92-70) vs. San Francisco (95-66)
A couple of notes: the asterisk denotes that in 2007, there was a wild-card playoff game between San Diego and Colorado, who tied for the spot. (The Padres are still waiting for Matt Holliday to touch the plate.) And look! More Yankees/Red Sox matchups! TV network executives salivate! Eight of the 20 wild card teams that actually did make the playoffs in those 10 seasons made it to the World Series, and four of them won it (Angels, 2002; Marlins, 2003; Red Sox, 2004; and Cardinals, 2011). Now, let's go back farther, to look at the 1995-2001 wild cards:
Year American League National League 2001 Minnesota (85-77) vs. Oakland (102-60) San Francisco (90-72) vs. St. Louis (93-69) 2000 Cleveland (92-70) vs. Seattle (91-71) Los Angeles (86-76) vs. New York (94-68) 1999 Oakland (87-75) vs. Boston (94-68) Cincinnati (96-66) vs. New York (96-66)* 1998 Toronto (88-74) vs. Boston (92-70) Chicago (89-73) vs. San Francisco (89-73)* 1997 Anaheim (88-74) vs. New York (96-66) NY/LA (88-74) vs. Florida (92-70) 1996 Seattle (85-76) vs. Baltimore (88-74) Montreal (88-74) vs. Los Angeles (90-72) 1995 California (78-67) vs. New York (79-65) Houston (76-68) vs. Colorado (77-67)
Notes: in 1995, the Angels and Mariners tied for the AL West title. The Mariners won the tiebreaker game; had there been a second wild card, the loser would have been guaranteed the one-game play-in vs. the Yankees. It's not yet clear how such a situation will be handled under the new system. In 1996, the Mariners finished 85-76 and the White Sox 85-77. It's likely that under the new system, the Mariners would have been forced to play the makeup game vs. the Indians (that wasn't played in real life) and had they lost, then played the White Sox to see who actually was the second wild card. Or maybe they'd use tiebreakers. Again, that hasn't yet been worked out. A similar tie in 1997 between the Mets and Dodgers would either have been played off, or decided by tiebreaker.
In 1998, only five AL teams finished over .500 -- under the new system, all of them would have been in the playoffs. The team with the worst record among those who actually made it -- the 86-75 Indians, who won the AL Central -- went to the World Series. There were wild-card playoff games in the NL in 1998 (Cubs vs. Giants) and 1999 (Reds vs. Mets). In 2000, the AL East champion Yankees had the worst record of any of the postseason teams (87-75) and would have been worse than the extra wild card (Indians); they wound up winning the World Series. In the NL in 2001, the Cardinals and Astros tied for the NL Central title; since both were in the playoffs, the Astros were given the division title by tiebreaker. In the new system, it's unclear who would be forced to play in the wild-card game; there were also two other teams (Cubs and Phillies) who finished within five games of the Houston/St. Louis record (93-69), which would have made for a great September race.
Would this new system have helped the Cubs since 1995? Not at all. The only time you see them in the charts above is the one year (1998) when they were involved in a wild-card playoff game, which they wound up winning. With the Astros scheduled to move out of the NL Central into the AL, making the NL Central a five-team division, could that help? Not necessarily; it would depend, of course, on how good a team the Cubs are, as well as whether the overall schedule is redone to become more balanced. That is also yet to be determined.
Some people will lament the fact that a day like the last day of the regular season in 2011, so exciting, could never happen again. That isn't necessarily true; this past Sept. 28 only occurred because of a unique confluence of events. You could still have teams battling to get into the playoffs, or more importantly, to win their division title and avoid having to play in the one-game play-in. Having to play that play-in game introduces another strategy: if you have to play that game, do you go with your best pitcher (if available)? Or do you save him for the first game of a division series that you might never play? One thing is clear -- this system makes winning your division much more important. The winner-take-all nature of the two league wild card games will make for drama and excitement, and you can imagine teams going all-out to win their division to avoid having to play those games.
Looking at the matchups that would have occurred over the last 17 seasons had the new system been in place, we don't see many tremendous mismatches. Of the 34 possible games, there is just one (Minnesota vs. Oakland in 2001) that matches two teams more than eight games apart; 15 of them would have matched clubs with no more than two games separating them in the regular season standings. Also, the idea that this lets "bad" teams into the playoffs is not true; not counting the shortened 1995 season, only six teams with fewer than 88 wins would have made the wild-card game in the other 16 years. There were division champions (Yankees, 2000; Cardinals, 2006) who won the World Series with fewer than 88 victories.
Will this help the Cubs? Only if they get good enough over time to qualify, obviously; any system that brings more teams into the postseason gives the Cubs extra chances to make it, and thus win the World Series that all of us dream of. First, Theo & Co. have to improve the club on the field. As I wrote above, that's not likely to happen in 2012... but in 2013 and beyond, bring it on. I like the additional wild card, and I don't think it leads to any "slippery slope" where 16 teams get in, NBA or NHL style. (Not unless you want to finish the World Series around Thanksgiving, anyway.)
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I am not in favor of one game playoffs.
Baseball has never been about one game, it’s too football like. A true test of a team is their pitching STAFF, not one pitcher. I could be in favor of three games but I understand the time constraints. That could be figured out with doing away with off days.
We'll miss you Big Boy. #10 for Hall of Fame.
by mrcubsfan on Nov 23, 2011 9:40 AM CST via mobile reply actions 1 recs
'Of this magnitude'?
Disagree. This isn’t to determine home field advantage for the playoffs or anything. If anything, it’s a good start towards giving a disadvantage to wild-card teams that they historically haven’t had beyond home field. If anything, it makes winning your division outright that much more valuable.
[...]when Giants coach Steve Owen, a certified defensive genius, was asked how he planned to stop Nagurski, he said: "With a shotgun, as he’s leaving the dressing room."
by NobodySpecial on Nov 23, 2011 9:46 AM CST up reply actions 4 recs
If anything, it makes winning your division outright that much more valuable.
This.
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Second this.
I love hte one game sudden death playoff for wild cards.
And that's how it should be
162 games should have some meaning.
Step Two: Develop an organizational plan
by Shanghai Badger on Nov 23, 2011 10:09 AM CST up reply actions
Bingo
This will also have the effect of making August and September more interesting, because the Yankees and Red Sox (and Phillies and Braves; Cardinals and Brewers; Giants and DBacks, etc…) will actually be fighting for something.
Yes, you will have years when the two wild card teams are five games ahead of everyone else and there is no drama, but you have that now with one wild card.
"It's all in the game, yo"
I also think
this will have the additional effect of causing teams to play to the end becuase of the 2nd wildcard and the chance to possible win a one game playoff and play into the playoffs. Gives a lot more teams hope and something to play for instead of rolling over and calling up the kids come the all star break
I am massively in favor of diminishing the value of a wild card berth.
This accomplishes that. Wild-card teams are subject to a play-in game. I like that.
True – baseball is not typically about one game. But your pitching STAFF had all year to get ahead of the other team, and failed to do so. Your staff got you into this play-in business, and it’s time to win an elimination game.
MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown
Some of the greatest moments in baseball history - the ones traditionalists get chubbies over
Were one-game playoffs. Shot Heard Round the World; Bucky Bleeping Dent; Rockies-Padres
Tradiationalists are funny.
"It's all in the game, yo"
And if two+ teams finish tied for the last WC berth - is it 2 play-in games, or some kind of H2H tiebreaker.
(fingers crossed for extra play-in games…. but that could get unwieldy.)
MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown
Too unwieldy, I'd think.
Probably some sort of tiebreaker.
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Yeah, tiebreakers are good
Maybe that will shut up the whole “162 games should matter crowd!”
Hey, Traditionalist Pointdexters! 162 GAMES DID MATTER! That game on April 18 determined whether you won the division on the wild card.
Now shut up and eat your pudding and wait for Wapner to come on.
"It's all in the game, yo"
162 games should matter
Which is why I like the one-game WC playoff. It means winning the division means something.
Don’t lump everyone into a group like a certain other poster would.
Step Two: Develop an organizational plan
by Shanghai Badger on Nov 23, 2011 10:23 AM CST up reply actions
I only generalize when it's fun to generalize
I’m pretty consistent that way.
"It's all in the game, yo"
I suppose
But the phrase you used could be used in opposing arguments.
Step Two: Develop an organizational plan
by Shanghai Badger on Nov 23, 2011 10:31 AM CST up reply actions
If you don't eat your pudding, you can't have any meat
Wait, that’s not right.
Step Two: Develop an organizational plan
by Shanghai Badger on Nov 23, 2011 10:34 AM CST up reply actions
It's
“How can you have any pudding if you don’t eat your meat?”
The sun is up. They sky is blue. It's beautiful, and so are you. Dear Prudence, won't you come out to play? ~Lennon & McCartney
by SouthWabashSoul on Nov 23, 2011 3:33 PM CST up reply actions
I'm well aware of that
It was a joke.
Step Two: Develop an organizational plan
by Shanghai Badger on Nov 23, 2011 10:15 PM CST up reply actions
One error
The “Shot Heard Round the World” (i.e. the Bobby Thomson HR off of Ralph Branca) was NOT a one-game playoff. It was Game 3 of a best-of-three playoff after the Giants and Dodgers tied. The Giants had won game one and the Dodgers had won game two.
by Josh Timmers on Nov 23, 2011 10:32 AM CST up reply actions
No more than
Game 7 of a World Series was “A one-game playoff.”
by Josh Timmers on Nov 23, 2011 10:43 AM CST up reply actions
I am 'somewhat' of a traditionalist
and I was at the 07 Rockies/Padres game. Best game I’ve ever been to.
I like the 1 game play in. It’s not like a 5 or 7 game series isn’t just as much of a crapshoot.
The sun is up. They sky is blue. It's beautiful, and so are you. Dear Prudence, won't you come out to play? ~Lennon & McCartney
by SouthWabashSoul on Nov 23, 2011 3:36 PM CST up reply actions
agree
ask the 2011 Phillies how much their pitching staff mattered
by hansman1982 on Nov 24, 2011 10:04 PM CST up reply actions
I think it will help baseball
There is nothing more exciting than PLAYOFF baseball. (Regular season baseball, not so much)
One-game playoffs rule. If you don’t want a one-game playoff, win your damn division and shut up. In fact, just shut up anyway and play because athletes are stupid and shouldn’t talk.
Playoff baseball is best because one play in the second inning can decide the game. In football and basketball, you can watch the fourth quarter and see what you need to see. Baseball should be trying to recreate playoff baseball as much as possible.
One game is just fine.
"It's all in the game, yo"
Cake.
"The riches of the game are in the thrills, not the money." --Ernie Banks
by dtpollitt on Nov 23, 2011 12:19 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
dumb idea
I always turn to the sports section first. The sports page records people's accomplishments; the front page has nothing but man's failures.
~Earl Warren
by lookingdeadred on Nov 23, 2011 12:58 PM CST up reply actions
What can I say. I don't think the current baseball playoff setup needed fixing.
I’m not in favor of tinkering just to tinker.
by Nunyabidness on Nov 23, 2011 5:52 PM CST up reply actions
Or, more correctly
… would have been in the wild-card playoff nine of the 17 years. (Not counting the times they won the division.)
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9 of the last 10
1 playoff miss in the Theo Era.
11 of 17 overall.
MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown
And the other times, they won the division outright.
In 2007, they won the AL East -
In 2005, they had 95 wins – BR has them in 2nd, I think that they should be the WC team instead of NYY here.
MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown
Another good thing they're doing
… is eliminating the rule that says a wild card winner cannot play a team in its own division in the first round.
The wild-card team will play the team with the best overall record. That’s a good thing.
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That was always weird.
Teams from the same division wound up playing in the championship series all the time. Was that a better result?
Get the single-market or regional interest playoff series out of the way as soon as we possibly can.
MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown
You could still have those types of matchups in the championship series.
But seeding them by record (or, in the case of wild card teams, always getting the last seed) is better, even if the wild card team might have a better record than one of the other division winners.
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The single-region argument kind of rings hollow to me.
Other than the AL West — which doesn’t seem to be a rich, rivalry division — it seems like a regional rivalry in the LCS has a better chance of having mass interest than, say, the Rays playing the Twins.
Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.
unless your talking
Yanks/Sox or Cubs/Cards, theres not that many that have more interest to the casual fan. Die hards will watch most of the games no matter who is in.
People ask me what I do in winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring. ~Rogers Hornsby
Disagree.
Dodgers-Giants? Dodgers-Padres? Phillies-Braves? Phillies-Mets? Braves-Mets? Twins-White Sox? Tigers-White Sox?
Sure, there are some division rivalries that nobody would care about — Brewers-Pirates, Mariners-Rangers, etc. But there are a lot that would draw interest outside of their regions, IMO.
There are many teams with long-standing, inter-division rivals beyond Yankees/Red Sox, Cards/Cubs.
Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.
I'll disagree with you there.
I actually liked that rule. Division rivals meeting in the LCS is often more interesting. I didn’t have a problem with a rule that made such meetings more likely.
Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.
It comes town to fairness
Shouldn’t the top seed play the bottom seed? simple as that. If it is a division foe, then that should give the top seed more of an advantage, because they know what to expect.
People ask me what I do in winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring. ~Rogers Hornsby
Obviously, that's the counter argument.
My point is that I’m willing to throw that out because I like seeing division opponents face off in the LCS.
The other problem with the fairness argument is that the division winner with the best record might rather play the worst division winner than the Wild Card team. The Wild Card team might be the hottest team, or maybe the worst division winner is just much worse than the Wild Card team.
Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.
I love it.
More playoff baseball, and if the w/c teams used their best starters in the last few days of the season to lock up that spot, plus a #2 or 3 for the w/c game, they could have to use a 4 or 5 starter to start the division series. Advantage top seed.
People ask me what I do in winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring. ~Rogers Hornsby
Playoff games added since 1969 have hurt the Cubs
If having no playoff games prior to the World Series (the NL team with the best regular season record vs. the AL team with the best regular season record) had remained in place, the Cubs would have been in the World Series in 1984, 1989, and 2003.
Um, what?
The Cubs won 88 games in 2003. Atlanta won more than 100, IIRC. I think even Florida won more regular season games than the Cubs in 2003.
And I believe the Giants had a better regular season record in 1989.
Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.
Should be 2008, not 2003
I had a typo above. The Cubs would have been in the World Series in 1984, 1989, and 2008.
In 1989 the Cubs were 93-69 while the Giants were 92-70.
Here's the thing, though.
The Cubs have a monkey on their back like no other sports franchise. Joe Torre talked about it after 2008. The Dodgers beat the Cubs in the LDS partly because of “100 years of history.” If you don’t believe me, go watch the infield defense in Game 2 again.
It’s quite possible that the Cubs teams you mentioned would have failed to overcome the last hurdle in 1984, 1989 and 2008 — even if the last hurdle had been preserving a regular-season best record. Why? Because preserving those leads in the years you mentioned (when there were several more hurdles to come) didn’t come with a lot of pressure.
I don’t buy into mystical curses and I think the Cubs can overcome the drought some day, simply by fielding competitive teams without junk-food-low squads like 2006 or 2010-11. Building a strong base of talent — instead of relying on costly free agents as band-aid fixes — is the way to do that.
Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.
The Cubs were one game better in 1989
But you’re correct about 2003. In fact, the Giants won more, too. The Cubs had the worst record of any 2003 NL playoff team.
http://www.baseball-reference.com/leagues/NL/2003.shtml
Step Two: Develop an organizational plan
by Shanghai Badger on Nov 23, 2011 10:29 AM CST up reply actions
Yeah, I was wrong on that.
That year is the first in which I really followed the Cubs (I was 9). That’s probably why my memory was faulty.
Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.
Damn kids
Step Two: Develop an organizational plan
by Shanghai Badger on Nov 23, 2011 10:44 AM CST up reply actions
AHHHH! A TRADITIONALIST!!!!!
Mash up some green beans and put on Wheel of Fortune!
"It's all in the game, yo"
Interestingly enough
In the second year of the three-division setup, 1995, the Cubs finished with a 73-71 record.
Had the NL had the old divisional setup (East & West, with the Cubs in the East), the Cubs would have won the NL East with that record. None of the other old NL East teams (Cardinals, Mets, Phillies, Pirates, Expos, Marlins) had a winning record in 1995.
Don’t believe me? Check the 1995 NL standings.
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Umm... not sure if I'm being Captain Obvious or Captain Oblivious, but...
…how could having an extra wild card HURT the Cubs? Seems like adding another postseason berth can only help teams, not hurt them.
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
LaTroy?
Step Two: Develop an organizational plan
by Shanghai Badger on Nov 23, 2011 10:38 AM CST up reply actions
I'm ambivalent about this
I don’t like expanding the playoffs. I really wish we could add two teams, go to four four-team divisions and work a playoff from there.
But under the current arrangement, this is a decent compromise. And I’m glad it’s a one-game playoffs rather than a best of three or five. I don’t want the World Series played around Thanksgiving and I don’t want the teams that won their division sitting around for four more days while they wait for the other series to finish.
I don’t want the teams that won their division sitting around for four more days while they wait for the other series to finish.
Another good reason to have just a one-game playoff.
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What is really going to help the Cubs
is going to a five-team division. While there hasn’t been a time when the removal of the Astros would have meant the Cubs made the playoffs, we can’t know how the Cubs would have done in 2001 or 2004 if they hadn’t have had all those games against a playoff-bound Astros team.
Particularly 2004.
Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.
That team would have found other ways to screw it up
In fact, they did – like against the Mets
Step Two: Develop an organizational plan
by Shanghai Badger on Nov 23, 2011 10:45 AM CST up reply actions
The Reds series was worse.
Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.
The one-game "all or nothing"
is growing on me. Starting the post-season with that level of drama is going to be fun (unless yours is the team that loses, but…).
And I’m fine with the DH standing pat. Its quirky, but meh.
Wish they would’ve addressed the ASG though. I suppose they still could regardless of the CBA? Didn’t Selig make the rule while under the last one?
Yes.
Selig unilaterally made that move, IIRC. It would be nice if he unilaterally removed it.
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For those of you who don't follow me on Twitter
Cubs farmhand Pierre LePage just got out of jury duty because the judge hates the Cubs and he wants Theo Epstein to come back to Boston.
That's what he tweeted
LePage is from Connecticut. He was in jury duty and he said the judge dismissed him because he hated the Cubs and that he wanted Theo back.
by Josh Timmers on Nov 23, 2011 10:56 AM CST up reply actions
You have got to be joking! If that is true, that judge seriously needs to rethink his line of work. He/She should not be making decisions based on he they feel about something.
Well
He could have been joking and serious. They might have had more people for jury duty than they needed and they just needed to get rid of people for arbitrary reasons.
by Josh Timmers on Nov 23, 2011 11:06 AM CST up reply actions
Is the judge named Bud?
"Just shut up and play" - Matt Garza
"Pain is inevitable, suffering is an option." - Dale Sveum
by RiskyBusiness on Nov 23, 2011 11:13 AM CST up reply actions
Hilarious.
Like that would make Theo come back.
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Speaking of which...
… if you missed my tweet yesterday with this TwitPic, this sign is prominently posted in the supermarket (Jewel) near my house:
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I should have taken a picture
of the Brian Epstein “Fear the Beard” cake that was at the bakery of my local Safeway during the 2010 World Series.
by Josh Timmers on Nov 23, 2011 11:08 AM CST up reply actions
Uh duh
Although a cake with the Beatles manager would have been funny.
Man, I’m out of it today.
by Josh Timmers on Nov 23, 2011 11:11 AM CST up reply actions
Maybe Brian Epstein is related to Theo somehow.
The missing Epstein brother, or something.
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Was just there this morning - saw it on my way out and laughed.
I was wondering if Theo will ever see it. I doubt it as he strikes me as a Whole Foods kinda guy.
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
I don't mind the new extra wild card team
I don’t think it should be one game though, it should be more like a three game series, that’s short enough to fit into the last week of September, but long enough to decide something as big of an importance of advancing in the playoffs. As far as the extra wild card helping the Cubs, we won’t know until we get there. I don’t think you can use past results to measure whether or not it’s going to help or not, every year is new and different.
UMD Bulldogs: 2011 NCAA Hockey Nat'l Champions; 2009 & 2011 NCAA DII Football Nat'l Champions
"Terry's down, oh my! Van Persie all by himself now, around Cech, and that'll do it!"
I actually take that back
The one game playoff might be a good thing, because now I’m thinking about the epic tiebreaker games we’ve had these past couple seasons, Twins beating the Tigers in like 14, Colorado beating San Diego, etc.
UMD Bulldogs: 2011 NCAA Hockey Nat'l Champions; 2009 & 2011 NCAA DII Football Nat'l Champions
"Terry's down, oh my! Van Persie all by himself now, around Cech, and that'll do it!"
1 wild card or 2 - this may still be the most important part
The winner will go on to face the team with the best record in that league, even if that team is in the same division as the wild-card winner.
The best team in a conference should not be penalized because the wild card came from their division.
"Just shut up and play" - Matt Garza
"Pain is inevitable, suffering is an option." - Dale Sveum
How is it a penalty though?
It just works out better, rather than having all three locked on playoff teams hanging on a ledge because they don’t know who they’ll play until potentially a couple days before their series starts. At least this way, the 1 seed is going to know that they’re going to face one of two teams, instead of a potential four others
UMD Bulldogs: 2011 NCAA Hockey Nat'l Champions; 2009 & 2011 NCAA DII Football Nat'l Champions
"Terry's down, oh my! Van Persie all by himself now, around Cech, and that'll do it!"
As it currently stands
From wiki – The wild-card team plays the team with the best record in the league as long as the two teams are in different divisions.
So if you have the best record and the wild card comes from your division, you have face another divison winner. And that division winner may be a tougher opponent than the wild card team.
The 2 wild card teams does not factor into it.
"Just shut up and play" - Matt Garza
"Pain is inevitable, suffering is an option." - Dale Sveum
by RiskyBusiness on Nov 23, 2011 11:26 AM CST up reply actions
The whole idea of more wild card teams, one game play offs, etc. is abhorrent to me.
If the Cubs still have a chance, no matter how small, it’s still Go Cubs, damn the math and pass the KoolAid. I'm a Sheeple and proud of it!
Spelling and grammar errors are included for creative and artistic reasons.
It doesn't "feel right" to me, and,
to my mind, is just a transparent mechanism to artificially keep more games “relevant” in the latter part of the season. “Relevant” games mean more ticket sales – Nothing more and nothing less.
Apart from this, if more teams go to the playoffs, it reduces the value of the regular season, IMHO.
I suppose this makes me old school on this…
If the Cubs still have a chance, no matter how small, it’s still Go Cubs, damn the math and pass the KoolAid. I'm a Sheeple and proud of it!
Spelling and grammar errors are included for creative and artistic reasons.
by eths on Nov 23, 2011 6:17 PM CST up reply actions 2 recs
Can I get a butterscotch disc?
Or a Werthers?
Where should I send them to?
If the Cubs still have a chance, no matter how small, it’s still Go Cubs, damn the math and pass the KoolAid. I'm a Sheeple and proud of it!
Spelling and grammar errors are included for creative and artistic reasons.
The alternate ending to I AM LEGEND is vastly superior than the theatrical one, but Matheson’s imagery kicks the ass of both.
"The riches of the game are in the thrills, not the money." --Ernie Banks
by dtpollitt on Nov 23, 2011 2:13 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
Aaron Sorkin peaked with season 2 of the West Wing and has been coasting ever since
"It's all in the game, yo"
The series finales
of both BSG and LOST were artistic cop-outs.
Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.
by drewishdrewid on Nov 23, 2011 3:10 PM CST up reply actions
....is Hellboy considered a superhero? I like Hellboy!
"Well-behaved women seldom make History"---Laurel Thatcher Ulrich
by cooliogirl47 on Nov 23, 2011 7:46 PM CST up reply actions
Abhorrent within the realm of sports. Child molesters are much worse, which should go without saying.
If the Cubs still have a chance, no matter how small, it’s still Go Cubs, damn the math and pass the KoolAid. I'm a Sheeple and proud of it!
Spelling and grammar errors are included for creative and artistic reasons.
Somebody explain this to me: 5 teams in each league I. The playoffs, two of them wild cards, play each other in a one game ‘play-in’ to play a real series in the playoffs? And they did away with no-division-opponents-playing-each-other, so it’ll just be best record against worst record and so on? That all sound right?
"The riches of the game are in the thrills, not the money." --Ernie Banks
by dtpollitt on Nov 23, 2011 12:21 PM CST via mobile reply actions
*league in the playoffs
"The riches of the game are in the thrills, not the money." --Ernie Banks
by dtpollitt on Nov 23, 2011 12:22 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
Well then this is all fine and good with me.
Besides the obvious, you know, that the playoffs in baseball are essentially a totally different sport than the regular season.
"The riches of the game are in the thrills, not the money." --Ernie Banks
by dtpollitt on Nov 23, 2011 1:57 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
And ONE more thing to add (if it hasn't been added yet)...
…UNLESS 2 Wild Card teams are playing each other, there should NEVER be a playoff series where the Wild Card team has home field advantage…Bud Selig’s All-Star Game be damned. And yes Al…even if a Wild Card team has 100 wins and the Division winner has 88. Win your division if you want home field
"Keep looking into the past and you'll keep repeating the past" - Some Smart Guy
I don't believe the wild card ever gets home field.
That hasn’t been stated, but that has been policy for a long time.
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Cardinals in the World Series 2011?
That’s why I wrote Bud Selig’s All-Star Game be damned. . Never, under any circumstance should the WC team be rewarded with home field advantage.
"Keep looking into the past and you'll keep repeating the past" - Some Smart Guy
What an odd thing to be up in arms about.
What if the Wild Card team hasn’t lost a game in the playoffs, and the division winner from the other league has lost a bunch of games?
Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.
*the penant winner
Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.
What's that got to do with it?
The playoffs should be set according to records at the end of the regular season. Wild cards should NEVER be rewarded with home field advantage – unless playing another wild card. See playoffs: NFL 2010. New Orleans wins Wild Card with 11-5 record and has to travel to Seattle who won the West with a 7-9 record. Seattle promptly spanked them. Moral of story…you want home field advantage…win your division. I realize that’s football, but, it’s still NOT giving a wild card team ANY advantage over a division winner. Bud’s “All-Star game means something”, is beyond stupid and it gave the Cardinals an advantage they should NOT have had in the 2011 World Series.
"Keep looking into the past and you'll keep repeating the past" - Some Smart Guy
I am calm...but
my girlfriend’s got me cleaning the house with her. And when I say cleaning, I mean CLEANING…ie…moving furniture, taking down and cleaning pictures, cleaning patio furniture and storing for winter. I wonder if Hazel (flashback for all you old timers) started out this way?
You know what’s next, right? Yep…Frickin’ Christmas decorations! So, I got that to look forward to for the weekend.
Oh, and Grig listens to “New Kids On The Block”.
"Keep looking into the past and you'll keep repeating the past" - Some Smart Guy
#FIRSTWORLDPROBLEMS
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Nov 23, 2011 3:25 PM CST up reply actions
Tell her that is woman's work and to get you a sandwich while wearing nothing but an apron
let me know how it goes.
"It's all in the game, yo"
I couldn't quite understand her...
…somethin’ about justifiable homicide…I think.
"Keep looking into the past and you'll keep repeating the past" - Some Smart Guy
Well, wait.
The playoffs should be set according to records at the end of the regular season.
What if a WC and penant winner from the NL had more wins than a division winner and pennant winner from the AL?
Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.
They're still a Wild Card, el...
…win your division!! They’ve already been rewarded enough by being allowed to make the playoffs in the first place. Division winners must be rewarded for being just that…division winners.
"Keep looking into the past and you'll keep repeating the past" - Some Smart Guy
You put too much stock in "division winners".
Why don’t we just go back to pennant winners only, then?
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Nah...I like 2 leagues with 2 divisions in both.
Never was a wild card advocate.
"Keep looking into the past and you'll keep repeating the past" - Some Smart Guy
I realize there's too many teams...
…and way too much money to be made to go back to that, tho.
"Keep looking into the past and you'll keep repeating the past" - Some Smart Guy
Winning a bad division doesn't make a team ...
more deserving than a team that won the Wild Card but placed second.
Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.
Ehh....
At some point, a wild card gets to come out of the penalty box.
If they win a one-game playoff, then beat the team with the best record and then win another series against a division winner, which is what would have to happen, I’m OK with them getting home field advantage in the World Series.
Now, I’m not OK with them getting it because of the All-Star Game, but it is entirely possible for a Wild Card from, say the AL East, having a better record than whichever team crawls out of the NL playoffs.
"It's all in the game, yo"
Ehh... Pt. 2
One game (playoffs)? further dilute the regular season, something networks have pretty much used as mission statements for 30+ years, in all sports. All in the name of dollars.
It’s a cheap way to try to capture more of our “excitement!” Meh. What a bunch of assholes, Bud included.
"Hey Hey, Holy mackerel, no doubt about it,!"
by scottsdalecubs on Nov 23, 2011 10:35 PM CST reply actions
I'd rather see the Cubs in the postseason no matter how they get in.
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i'd rather see the cubs get into the playoffs
and not immediately forget how to play baseball
THEOOOOOOOOO (and Hoyer)
by jesus christos on Nov 24, 2011 1:29 PM CST up reply actions
I suppose
but I would rather see them make the playoffs any way they can
I always turn to the sports section first. The sports page records people's accomplishments; the front page has nothing but man's failures.
~Earl Warren
by lookingdeadred on Nov 26, 2011 9:42 AM CST up reply actions
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