The End Of The Koyie Hill Era In Chicago
by Al Yellon on Dec 12, 2011 9:00 PM CST
in Chicago Cubs News
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Early Monday evening, Carrie tweeted the news:
@CarrieMuskat
Carrie Muskat#Cubs have tendered contracts to arb eligibles Baker, DeWitt, Garza, Soto, Stewart, Wells, but not Hill
FavoriteRetweet
And with that, the Chicago Cubs career of Koyie Hill has ended. More on this epoch in the history of our favorite team after the jump.
Let's face it. Koyie Hill was not a very good major league baseball hitter. The run you see him scoring in the photo at the top of this post was a rare event -- one of only 15 such events during the 2011 season. Offensively, his contributions diminished with each year he was backup to Geovany Soto:
2009: .237/.312/.324
2010: .214/.254/.298
2011: .194/.268/.276
Those numbers range from bad to awful to pathetic; since 1961, only 20 other Cubs players have had as many or more PA (153) as Hill did in 2011 and have an OPS (.544) as low. Almost all of them were backup catchers (although you'll surely remember Aaron Miles' .466 OPS in 2009).
The value, according to those in the prior regime, of Hill was his defense. That wasn't very good either; though he caught 20 of 50 runners stealing (40%) in 2009, that ratio dropped to 18% (8 of 45) in 2010 and 24% (8 of 33) in 2011. But he's good with the pitching staff, management said. Cubs pitchers posted a 4.31 ERA with Hill catching in 2011; 4.33 with Geovany Soto. Um, well, pitchers like the way he calls a game. That's something we don't have numbers for.
Oddly enough, maybe there's something to that, in spite of all the other bad numbers. Check out the Cubs' record in games Hill started while he was with the team:
2011: 22-16
2010: 24-36
2009: 42-27
2008: 1-1
2007: 17-8
That's a 106-78 (.576) record. From 2007-2011, the Cubs were 305-319 (.489) in games not started by Hill. If you have an explanation for the difference, feel free to post it in the comments. It's completely inexplicable, more likely creditable to the pitchers rather than Hill's presence, although there were quite a few different pitchers over the five seasons.
Don't think I'm making this post as some sort of plea that he should have been kept. Far from it, his time was long ago past; he hit .208/.270/.295 overall as a Cub, with seven HR and 63 RBI in 795 plate appearances. Meanwhile, Henry Blanco, who was unceremoniously dumped after backing up Geovany Soto quite well during the 2008 97-win season, has hit .233/.308/.394 with 16 HR and 36 RBI in little more than half the PA (488) in the three years since then and was a capable backup for the division champion Diamondbacks in 2011.
The Cubs should have kept Blanco. Hill made $800,000 last year, which was the source of considerable angst around here. Could the Cubs have done better for the league minimum? Probably, but $400,000 wasn't going to break the bank. Clearly, there were other issues with the Jim Hendry regime that forced its end.
So the Cubs will have a new backup catcher in 2012. Steve Clevenger seems the likely choice if the Cubs stay in-house; he hits well, and is also lefthanded, something MLB moguls seem to like in a backup catcher if the main guy hits righthanded.
Koyie Hill, for his part, seems like a good guy, and someone who, like a lot of catchers who can't hit much in the major leagues, might make a good coach or manager someday. He'll be 33 in March; if Koyie wants to stay in baseball, I hope Theo & Jed can find a place for him in the organization to begin a coaching career.
I'll finish by saying that only on this site could we have nearly 800 words written about the non-tender of a .200-hitting backup catcher. Onward.
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I’ll finish by saying that only on this site could we have nearly 800 words written about the non-tender of a .200-hitting backup catcher.
BCB RULEZ
THEOOOOOOOOO (and Hoyer)
by jesus christos on Dec 12, 2011 9:03 PM CST reply actions 4 recs
Why oh why does SBNation now have Twitter handles in every damn comment?
Not personally about you, but man does the damn SBNation site look like crap when everybody’s got one of these things.
"The riches of the game are in the thrills, not the money." --Ernie Banks
B/c Dan they know how much you LOVE LOVE LOVE twitter
The Stat Pack
by shoemile on Oct 21, 2011 10:10 PM CDT
by Madison Cub Fan on Dec 12, 2011 9:41 PM CST up reply actions
I'm with you
Why couldn’t the Twitter stuff go on the same line as “reply” and “actions” with a similarly low profile?
Those are in individual sig files.
Personally, I don’t care for them.
Join us for complete MLB coverage at SB Nation's Baseball Nation
He should have been gone after last spring.
I do hope he lands somewhere else, or in the Cubs system as a coach. Of course if he does play for someone else double his OPS against the Cubs.
He can start out in low A
Work his way up in the system, take Iowa to the playoffs and become the next Cubs manager. That’s how all the former greats do it, right?
Hill is too much of a legend
To start in A ball. Fire Sveum
by Frozen Toews on Dec 12, 2011 9:13 PM CST up reply actions
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!
Who is going to catch every inning of every game when Soto is hurt?
The most affected player by the departure of Hendry and Quade
Don't be so sure...
The most affected player by the departure of Hendry and Quade
…there’s a certain RH relief pitcher NOT signed yet : ) .
"Keep looking into the past and you'll keep repeating the past" - Some Smart Guy
by Easy Ed on Dec 12, 2011 11:07 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Clevenger over Castillo?
I mean, that would be my choice because I’m an unabashed Clevenger partisan (me and Bryan Harper!) but I don’t know what Sveum is thinking.
I’d think Clevenger and Castillo will battle for the job in Spring Training, which is what they should have done last spriing.
Bryan Harper?
As in former Twins catcher Bryan Harper? If he’s sold on Clevenger, then I’m in.
"You've got to get your damn shirts rolled up and go out and kick somebody's ass. That's what you've got to do. Period." -- Lou Piniella
Yep
He was Clevenger’s manager in Tennessee this year. Told everyone that Clevenger had a major league future.
by Josh Timmers on Dec 12, 2011 9:56 PM CST up reply actions
I think Clevenger will win.
Only because Castillo has better potential and needs to play everyday at AAA.
Theo & Jed seem to like lefthanded hitters.
That also gives the edge to Clevenger.
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"Well, cross him off then."
A ….. Cubs hire Ryne Sandberg as manager.
B ….. Albert Pujols and Prince Fielder both stay in the NL Central for next year.
C ….. Aramis Ramirez is the starting third baseman for Cubs on Opening Day
D ….. MLB makes official announcement that there will be a DH in the NL
E ….. Cubs eat more than $15M in 2012 player salary through trades or outright release of players.
F ….. Rudy Jaramillo is the Cubs hitting coach on Opening Day.
G ….. Carlos Zambrano is on the Miami Marlins Opening Day roster..
H ….. MLB makes official announcement there will be 15 teams in each league
I ….. Cubs eat more than $20M in 2012 player salary through trades or outright release of players.
J ….. Len & Bob, Pat & Keith all return in their roles as broadcasters for Cubs
K ……Brett Jackson is on the Cubs Opening Day roster.
L ….. MLB further expands instant replay capabilities
M ….. Cubs eat more than $25M in 2012 player salary through trades or outright release of players.
N ……Koyie Hill is on Cubs Opening Day roster.
O ….. No 2011 Cub gets a vote in the MVP, Cy Young, Rookie of the Year or Manager of the Year contests.
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
Didn't MLB expand instant replay
as part of the union agreement?
"Keep pushin' til' it's understood. And these badlands start treating us good."
The umpires have to agree to it yet
but that’s not expected to be a problem.
by Josh Timmers on Dec 12, 2011 9:15 PM CST up reply actions
replay
I don’t have a problem with it as long as they change how they do it. My idea would be to have a guy upstairs review it and call down to the field. Like college football does. This going down to the clubhouse or where ever they go takes way too much time.
You can boldface "F", too.
Rudy Jaramillo is being retained.
Join us for complete MLB coverage at SB Nation's Baseball Nation
Do we really know this for sure during the next 114 days - Sometimes meteorites fall from the Arizona sky... ;-)
If the Cubs still have a chance, no matter how small, it’s still Go Cubs, damn the math and pass the KoolAid. I'm a Sheeple and proud of it!
Spelling and grammar errors are included for creative and artistic reasons.
True enough.
I guess we’ll just have to wait and see.
Join us for complete MLB coverage at SB Nation's Baseball Nation
We will just have to hope for the best...
If the Cubs still have a chance, no matter how small, it’s still Go Cubs, damn the math and pass the KoolAid. I'm a Sheeple and proud of it!
Spelling and grammar errors are included for creative and artistic reasons.
I like the crater image.
It reminds me of the once bright futures of past Chicago Cubs teams.
Hendry would have built a ticket stand and sold popcorn at the Rim while proclaiming it’s the luckiest hole on earth.
Cacti are prickly.
by crackedcactus on Dec 13, 2011 11:30 PM CST up reply actions
Technically, you can't cross this one off yet
Many teams sign non-tendered players to lower contracts or give them minor-league contracts with Spring Training invites. I certainly would be shocked if that happens with Hill, but until Opening Day, well…youneverknow.
...formerly known as zambranofan
I doubt that Hill will be back with the Cubs.
I’m surprised he lasted this long with them.
by jeffmills1972 on Dec 12, 2011 10:00 PM CST up reply actions
yeah, I know
I was going more for effect than anything. Figured it’d be good for a laugh.
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
I don't think I am doing too well...
J ….. Len & Bob, Pat & Keith all return in their roles as broadcasters for Cubs
E ….. Cubs eat more than $15M in 2012 player salary through trades or outright release of players.
I ….. Cubs eat more than $20M in 2012 player salary through trades or outright release of players.
M ….. Cubs eat more than $25M in 2012 player salary through trades or outright release of players.
G ….. Carlos Zambrano is on the Miami Marlins Opening Day roster..
A ….. Cubs hire Ryne Sandberg as manager.
H ….. MLB makes official announcement there will be 15 teams in each league
F ….. Rudy Jaramillo is the Cubs hitting coach on Opening Day.
L ….. MLB further expands instant replay capabilities
K ……Brett Jackson is on the Cubs Opening Day roster.
N ……Koyie Hill is on Cubs Opening Day roster.
C ….. Aramis Ramirez is the starting third baseman for Cubs on Opening Day
O ….. No 2011 Cub gets a vote in the MVP, Cy Young, Rookie of the Year or Manager of the Year contests.
D ….. MLB makes official announcement that there will be a DH in the NL
B ….. Albert Pujols and Prince Fielder both stay in the NL Central for next year.
If the Cubs still have a chance, no matter how small, it’s still Go Cubs, damn the math and pass the KoolAid. I'm a Sheeple and proud of it!
Spelling and grammar errors are included for creative and artistic reasons.
I've still got my "A" one going
A. The Earth will not crash into the Sun in 2011.
JUST 17 days to go!
"It's all in the game, yo"
18.5
Those last 36 hours are going to get you.
Step Two: Develop an organizational plan
by Shanghai Badger on Dec 13, 2011 10:23 AM CST up reply actions
Can't really cross off 'B'.
Prince Fielder isn’t a Cub…yet.
"[The Cubs] have a very famous tradition in baseball, and it will be nice to be part of turning it around." ~ Jamie Quirk, Bench Coach
But it says both, not either
So it’s already false
Step Two: Develop an organizational plan
by Shanghai Badger on Dec 13, 2011 12:51 PM CST up reply actions
Oh, right.
I should probably go eat something. Not thinking very clearly here.
"[The Cubs] have a very famous tradition in baseball, and it will be nice to be part of turning it around." ~ Jamie Quirk, Bench Coach
(Tried to) Rec'd.
Though I think I flagged it instead by accident.
"I'd rather hit home runs you don't have to run as hard." -- Dave Kingman
by BucknerKongCardenal on Dec 12, 2011 10:12 PM CST up reply actions
Please don't go Koyie
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3w1TzLR2tYc
"Keep pushin' til' it's understood. And these badlands start treating us good."
by AussieCub on Dec 12, 2011 9:19 PM CST reply actions 1 recs
"Beef Taco"
It’s what I thought they were singing for years too. Couldn’t figure out why I kept hearing the song. Thought it was the most retarded thing I had ever heard. :)
"Manny Trillo is coming in to pinch run. You know, for a lot of teams, you would pinch run FOR Manny Trillo." - Harry Caray
Blanco
You know, I always wondered why they let him go. He was a decent backup that the team seemed to like a lot. Not that it matters much, but always struck me as a little odd.
Agreed.
From an intangibles perspective, I think he was a good influence on Geo.
And from a statistical perspective, HANK WHITE SLUGGED .540 IN 112 PAs LAST SEASON!!!
"[The Cubs] have a very famous tradition in baseball, and it will be nice to be part of turning it around." ~ Jamie Quirk, Bench Coach
Good move.
How long until Hill and Bobby Scales are back with the Cubs…as coaches?
"You've got to get your damn shirts rolled up and go out and kick somebody's ass. That's what you've got to do. Period." -- Lou Piniella
Hill was one of the worst catchers at framing pitchers
Over the past 5 seasons. From BP:
http://www.baseballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=15093
by subtle on Dec 12, 2011 9:29 PM CST via mobile reply actions
not unless they suck like hill
THEOOOOOOOOO (and Hoyer)
by jesus christos on Dec 12, 2011 9:32 PM CST up reply actions
only the Bears offense sucks that bad
I'm going to the 2012 Randy Hundley Fantasy Camp!!! Who's with me?
by VegasCubFan on Dec 13, 2011 11:35 PM CST up reply actions
Actually Blanco was very well liked by Cub fans.
If the backup catcher does a good job next year I’m sure he’ll be very accepted. If he plays like Hill, we’re not gonna be happy campers.
If he plays like Hill he won't be around long.
We have two ready to at least be a backup catchers already in Clevenger and Castillo. I am hoping Castillo wins out so we can cheer for BEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEF next year.
I wasted too much time discussing Hill this time last year.
So glad he’s gone so I don’t have to go over that again.
"Pounding sand since 1982...."
by cubswynn on Dec 12, 2011 9:48 PM CST via mobile reply actions 1 recs
...
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Dec 12, 2011 10:01 PM CST reply actions 18 recs
Hey! Who took that picture of us!
"The riches of the game are in the thrills, not the money." --Ernie Banks
ya know... on the Eastern Seaboard, that could be construed as the dawn of a new era
Just sayin’…
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
Woah, a bit lazy there
The reflection on the water simply fades, you couldn’t keyframe a move up towards the horizon?
For shame.
Shameless self promotion: Check out my website!!!
http://www.itsnotabook.com
by WittyUserName on Dec 13, 2011 2:04 PM CST up reply actions
...
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Dec 13, 2011 2:09 PM CST up reply actions 2 recs
...
If the Cubs still have a chance, no matter how small, it’s still Go Cubs, damn the math and pass the KoolAid. I'm a Sheeple and proud of it!
Spelling and grammar errors are included for creative and artistic reasons.
Now if you could get that cat's mouth to move...
Join us for complete MLB coverage at SB Nation's Baseball Nation
The BABIP cat!
May you smile upon us in 2012.
"[The Cubs] have a very famous tradition in baseball, and it will be nice to be part of turning it around." ~ Jamie Quirk, Bench Coach
That's one cat I would *not* mind sacrificing to the BABIP gods.
"Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have?" -Frank Chance
"If [Ruth] had [called his shot], I would have knocked him down with the next pitch." -Charlie Root
...
From 2007-2011, the Cubs were 305-319 (.489) in games not started by Hill. If you have an explanation for the difference, feel free to post it in the comments.
….um, everybody had to play a lot better when they knew Koyie was in the lineup?
Fukudometer: Created 3/31/08 Wrigley Debut 4/5/08 WGN and Japan TV Debut 4/6/08 Sun Times Debut: 4/20/08 Coffee Table Debut: 7/17/08
I will miss that winning percentage.
That might be as good an answer as any though, Fuku. It’s really quite perplexing. It’s not like the offense improved while he was in there. He was like the Cubs version of Tim Tebow, only instead of being mediocre to horrible and then turning it on at the end, he never turned it on, but still somehow one. Small smaple size? Not even the 2010 Cubs could win with him.
"I'd rather hit home runs you don't have to run as hard." -- Dave Kingman
by BucknerKongCardenal on Dec 12, 2011 10:31 PM CST up reply actions
Well Bye....
Just because we have chiseled abs and stunning features, it doesn't mean that we too can't not die in a freak gasoline fight accident.
by Fat Punk Kicker on Dec 12, 2011 10:19 PM CST reply actions
let's not forget...
… that despite being the whipping boy of this site, despite his anemic batting, the guy had a career that most of us will only dream of, and he did it after suffering a horrific injury that could have permanently disabled him. He has my respect.
I think I speak for everyone here when I say, "Wait, what the hell are you talking about?"
by Ross on Dec 12, 2011 10:46 PM CST reply actions 15 recs
Well said.
After hearing about what happened to him I became a big fan, regardless of his actual baseball skills. I can’t root against a guy who came back from that!
I just hope he doesn’t actually have to have his ring finger removed like he speculated once in one of his post-accident interviews.
Yes me too.
And let’s not forget the choices for backup C in ’09 were Hill or Bako. Hill was clearly better.
The thing about Hill’s career that always perplexed me was that when he was a prospect with the Dodgers, he was noted as an offensive catcher who needed to work on his defense. I guess he worked on his defense enough to be passable but forgot how to hit.
He is also the only “Koyie” to play organized baseball, according to Baseball Reference
"We gotta circle the bandwagons." - Devin Hester
by Jose's Eyelid on Dec 13, 2011 7:41 AM CST up reply actions
WTF!?!
Well there goes our switch-hitting catcher advantage!
endSarcasm
"Just shut up and play" - Matt Garza
"Pain is inevitable, suffering is an option." - Dale Sveum
The new regime continues to make logical moves that have pacified my years of anger caused by the previous honcho.
Honestly, I’m feeling emotionally adrift.
Theo! Good job, Tommy Boy!
Who now?
Hill may not be the next Soto but what about Wellington?
Captain of the Darwin Barney Bandwagon. FUTURE HOF!!!!
by chcubsdomination on Dec 12, 2011 11:48 PM CST up reply actions
If you need some masochism you could come watch JA ruin the Bears.
Cacti are prickly.
by crackedcactus on Dec 13, 2011 11:34 PM CST up reply actions
Its not that I don't like Hill,
I’ll just feel better when he’s not around. The Cubs have the guts, they just need the fuel.
Hank White should have stayed here, period. Instead, we live with nine fingers of “clubhouse guy”.
Off
topic completely but I’m a Pirates fan here to wish y’all good luck this season.
I hope we can both finish ahead of the Brewers!
by McCutchenIsTheTruth on Dec 13, 2011 1:07 AM CST reply actions
Thanks for the nice words
I hope you guys finish over .500 finally. And I’d certainly rather the Pirates win the division than any team other than the Cubs.
by Josh Timmers on Dec 13, 2011 1:20 AM CST up reply actions
One day we will break
.500! A division title would just be icing.
Thank you.
by McCutchenIsTheTruth on Dec 13, 2011 2:24 AM CST up reply actions
Good luck to the Buccos
Hope you guys get the wild card in 2012. Great stadium too.
"We gotta circle the bandwagons." - Devin Hester
by Jose's Eyelid on Dec 13, 2011 7:42 AM CST up reply actions
Not to root against the Pirates because I wish them well
but I am tired of these bottom feeders building up good teams better then the cubs. Man 8 years ago look at the Brewers, then look at the Rays and Rangers, 5 years ago look at the Reds, how depressing will it be to see the Pirates in the playoffs and not the Cubs. it isn’t anybody’s fault but the Cubs organization but it stinks. I am a die hard Steeler’s fan so I do have love for all of Pittsburgh teams and I do wish the Pirates good luck for next year.
you do realize....
that just three short months ago Ricketts hired a guy named Theo Epstein, who hired a couple of guys that are really good at their job. These guys know how to build a world series caliber team, they have changed how the Chicago Cubs are operating? Have started to change the culture and the beliefs and the day to day operations. you realize all of this, right?
So i you can give you can take it.
Ya
unfortunately as a Pirates fan it’s pretty clear the Cubs will be nothing on the way up. Our prime “window” is opening soon with Cole/Taillon, so hopefully y’all will be right behind us.
Alot depends on Fielder.
by McCutchenIsTheTruth on Dec 13, 2011 10:25 AM CST up reply actions
Epsilon
C’mon you know that stat pack should have already won a WS anything short of that is FAILURE and it means the Cubs will continue to be looking up at other NL central teams
/sarcasm/
The Stat Pack
by shoemile on Oct 21, 2011 10:10 PM CDT
by Madison Cub Fan on Dec 13, 2011 10:50 AM CST up reply actions
By June, I was rooting for you guys last season.
"[The Cubs] have a very famous tradition in baseball, and it will be nice to be part of turning it around." ~ Jamie Quirk, Bench Coach
Thanks
man. Hopefully we can repeat last year’s early season success and keep it going.
by McCutchenIsTheTruth on Dec 13, 2011 12:56 PM CST up reply actions
I would LOVE to see a Pirates/Rays WS next season....
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Dec 13, 2011 12:59 PM CST up reply actions
Haha
ESPN would be furious. I’d love it though. Small-market love for once! Let us have our fun before the Cubs start dominating the NL Central under Theo. I think it’ll take a few years, so patience will be key, but Theo is gonna turn the Cubs around and I think y’all will make the WS sooner rather than later.
by McCutchenIsTheTruth on Dec 13, 2011 1:04 PM CST up reply actions
My mid-May it was pretty clear that we shoulda called up the rookies.
As long as I don’t have to watch Lopez waddle to the mound.
Or watch a ball leave the stadium. Again.
Cacti are prickly.
by crackedcactus on Dec 13, 2011 11:36 PM CST up reply actions
Also, nice writeup Al.
Addressed a lot of the talking points that showed up in every Koyie Hill debate.
Theo! Good job, Tommy Boy!
This is it.
After 43 years
I stayed a fan through
The departure of Madlock
The departure of Sutter
The depatrue of Maddux
The departure of Wood
THe disappointment of Prior, etc
The heartbreaks of 84 89 98 03 04 07 and 08
Bad trades
Joey Amalfitano
PReston Gomez
Jim Essian
The departure of Aramis Ramirez
Joe Carter being traded
Joe Carter in the booth
Chip Caray
But after 43 years the departure of Koyie Hill
LETS GO SOX!
Nothing happens unless it's first a dream
Nice
i’m a few years older so I recall Santo, Williams, Beckert, Hundley, Kessinger and Jenkins getting traded. I was sorry to see them all go, but the one that really hurt was Andre Thornton.
"We gotta circle the bandwagons." - Devin Hester
by Jose's Eyelid on Dec 13, 2011 7:44 AM CST up reply actions
I know Epstein and Hoyer expressed accountability and change
but I didn’t expect them to go this far.
HA who would have thought that change, started with the back up catcher and not our Left Fielder or Crazy Starting Pitcher
I don't care what you guys say
or what the reason for his winning record was. He had a winning record. That’s good enough for me. I really liked him and wish him luck in the future. Looking forward to the book and movie of his amazing comeback from what could have been a career ending injury.
♪ He held me very tight under stars so bright and whispered darlin' "Who do you love tonight?" I told him "baseball, baseball...." ♫
That was pretty cool.
♪ He held me very tight under stars so bright and whispered darlin' "Who do you love tonight?" I told him "baseball, baseball...." ♫
You didn't even blink. Good response!
Step Two: Develop an organizational plan
by Shanghai Badger on Dec 13, 2011 7:53 AM CST up reply actions
Maybe we can name the movie:
127 Games: Why Is The Back Up Catcher Playing So Often?
I tend to blame Soto more than Hill for that.
I also think he would have been better had he played more.
♪ He held me very tight under stars so bright and whispered darlin' "Who do you love tonight?" I told him "baseball, baseball...." ♫
Good bye and all the best Koyie
If the Cubs still have a chance, no matter how small, it’s still Go Cubs, damn the math and pass the KoolAid. I'm a Sheeple and proud of it!
Spelling and grammar errors are included for creative and artistic reasons.
Bout time! This is what happens when you have REAL management. No free rides!
"You win because of the quarterback. We have to get that position stabilized. We're fixated on that." -- Jerry Angelo (12.30.2008)
Jerry Angelo trades for Jay Cutler! (4.2.2009)
Despite rarely offensively contributing to the team
He was a great story in regards to coming back from injury! I also think he was underrated as a catcher.
No way we ever make it to another World Series without Koyie Hill
:)
Wait a minute... who am I here?
The best part about this thread
is how it straddles the line between ironic and earnest. That’s Cubdom in a nutshell.
We’re detached enough to make fun at our whole predicament, yet still optimistic enough to get misty over crap like this.
I LOVE YOU GUYS! (Except for Badger)
"It's all in the game, yo"
Please. I complete you.
Step Two: Develop an organizational plan
by Shanghai Badger on Dec 13, 2011 10:24 AM CST up reply actions
I love that Koyie Hill has an "era"
I did like to see him play when he was in Des Moines… for the big Cubs, not so much.
Proud recipient of a hot dog shot from the Iowa Cubs hot dog gun.
I also have an autographed broken Koyie Hill bat in my garage...
I use it to hit grounders to my kids. I “won” it at an Iowa Cubs silent auction a few years back for like $15 bucks. Go me.
Proud recipient of a hot dog shot from the Iowa Cubs hot dog gun.
wait, that bat actually can hit a ball?
unpossible!
I'm going to the 2012 Randy Hundley Fantasy Camp!!! Who's with me?
by VegasCubFan on Dec 13, 2011 11:42 PM CST up reply actions
Ha!
It only hits slow rollers to 2nd.
"Whenever one finds himself in the majority, it is time to step back and reflect," Mark Twain.
by WindisBlowingOut! on Dec 14, 2011 9:31 AM CST up reply actions
My Koyie Hill story
I once ate and entire pie while watching a Cubs game where I think Hill might have played, although that could have been a pie-related hallucination.
"It's all in the game, yo"
by Worf on Dec 13, 2011 10:28 AM CST reply actions 2 recs
Must've been chicken POT pie
Step Two: Develop an organizational plan
by Shanghai Badger on Dec 13, 2011 10:50 AM CST up reply actions
Didn't Pie play for the... Oh, never mind...
If the Cubs still have a chance, no matter how small, it’s still Go Cubs, damn the math and pass the KoolAid. I'm a Sheeple and proud of it!
Spelling and grammar errors are included for creative and artistic reasons.
Say what you will...
But my son and I will miss Koyie Hill as a Cub. I know it doesn’t make up for a lack of performance on the field, but it shows that he is a good guy that he stopped and signed a ball for my son.
Now we can all speculate
on which roster move will be used to prove that Theo Epstein and Co. are idiots and should be fired.
[...]when Giants coach Steve Owen, a certified defensive genius, was asked how he planned to stop Nagurski, he said: "With a shotgun, as he’s leaving the dressing room."
Will you miss Aramis when the new 3rd Baseman actually dives for a groundball?
Or when Aramis doesnt go for a grounder with the Brewers and it leads to a Cubs victory?
by mikecubbie69 on Dec 14, 2011 5:44 PM CST up reply actions
jim hendry's ghost or now the pictures are burned up
something all cub fans should remember and we were constantly reminded, koye hill they really liked this guy.
by notcubbiewubbie on Dec 13, 2011 11:52 AM CST reply actions
It's easy to pick on Hill...
but what was he going to do, turn down the contracts offered to him? This was obviously all on Hendry.
btw, Koyie Hill coming to bat felt the same as Jeff Blauser coming to bat – a sure out.
I think we need a special place for breathless
“non-tendered” fan shots. How many are there, 75 or so?
by San Diego Smooth Jazz Man on Dec 13, 2011 12:46 PM CST reply actions
Thank God I have lived to see this day...
I think letting go of Henry Blanco and keeping Koyie Hill was the biggest mistake Lou ever made. (Yes, bigger than trading DeRo and signing Gameboard.) Blanco was the one guy who could get right into Z’s face and have him listen. I don’t think it’s a complete coincidence that Z’s biggest meltdowns have come since Blanco left.
"I've never complained about it. I'm thankful to have a jersey." Mark DeRosa, 22 Aug 2007
DeRoMyHero is right.
Lou wanted a LH-hitting backup catcher. Hendry indulged him. It was a huge mistake.
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Lou wanted a lot of things that Jim didn't give him.
To continue to blame him for Jim’s failures is such BS.
Theo! Good job, Tommy Boy!
Who's blaming Lou for Jim's failures?
On this, however, you are incorrect. Lou said several times he wanted a LH-hitting backup catcher (he had one in Seattle).
Hendry gave him one. Would Hendry have kept Blanco if not for this? Maybe. Could he have found a BETTER LH-hitting backup? Probably.
But this one’s on Lou. Hendry would not have done this on his own.
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Nope, wrong.
Hendry obviously did do this on his own, because that’s his job. End of story forever and ever and ever. Lou was not responsible for any transactions/signings/trades. He was responsible for managing, so if you want to dump all over him for that, be my guest. He’s not the culpable one for making suggestions to Hendry. Hendry was his boss. Repeat: Hendry was his boss. Maybe this is just your knee jerk defense of Hendry kicking back in, but players on the roster are the responsibility of the GM. I don’t know how to make this any clearer to you. It’s the basic way baseball teams are run. And I know you know this, but something’s obviously stopping you from admitting it.
I mean, I get that I can get pretty vindictive toward Hendry, but at least I’m not creating false hierarchies to justify my dislike like you and Dero have done with Lou. Of course, you also told me earlier in the year that Lou was responsible for Koyie being on the roster in 2011, so it’s clear I’m not the only one blinded by anger toward a former Cubs employee.
Theo! Good job, Tommy Boy!
Seriously, you are positing things here that you have no way of knowing.
Hendry obviously did do this on his own
Really? Proof? Cite?
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...
In Major League Baseball, the general manager (GM) of a team typically controls player transactions and bears the primary responsibility on behalf of the ballclub during contract discussions with players.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_manager_%28baseball%29
There’s all the proof and citation you need, Al. And I certainly didn’t need to link to anything to assure you of it. You know as well as I do what a GM’s responsibilities are, as well as what is required of a manager.
I’m not saying Lou didn’t say the Cubs should sign this guy or trade that guy. I’m sure Randy Bush did the same thing. Gary Hughes too. But the responsibility is Hendry’s. PERIOD. Your “This one’s on Lou” statements are pure fantasy and are either a last ditch effort to exonerate Hendry’s poor job or just another way to continue to take jabs at Lou. Either way, you’re the one fabricating job duties to further your point, so the onus is on you to prove your assumptions.
Theo! Good job, Tommy Boy!
I think you're misunderstanding what I am saying.
Of course it’s Hendry who made the final decision. What I am saying is that with Lou, as he often did with Dusty, he gave way too much influence to his big-name manager in putting players on the team that particular manager wanted.
He did it with Dusty with guys like Enrique Wilson, Tony Womack, Rey Ordonez, etc.
He did it with Lou with Koyie, and also ripping apart the team when LOU said “we need to get more lefthanded”.
It’s not “fabricating job duties”. Of course I know the GM signs players. It’s just that in Hendry’s case, I believe he gave his managers too much say in the matter.
Make more sense now?
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I understand what you're saying.
I’ve understood for quite some time, as you’re not the only one who has spouted this line. I just think it’s BS. It’s no coincidence that so many signings have been “blamed” on Dusty and Lou and yet I have never, not once, seen anyone credit either one with a signing that has worked out. It’s Hendry propaganda.
You yourself said “This one’s on Lou”. No, it’s not, no matter how many times you have to keep saying Jim let his managers influence him too much. Every manager with even the slightest pull attempts to influence their GM. Dusty and Lou weren’t some sort of magical managers that were able to overcome any subservient tendencies. Jim probably heard dozens of suggestions everyday from people within his organization. To try and blame anyone else (except for McDonough with the two extra years for Soriano) is just ridiculous.
I don’t give a damn what Lou or Dusty “said”. I care about what Jim “did”.
Theo! Good job, Tommy Boy!
I agree with most of what you've said
But not this
I have never, not once, seen anyone credit either one with a signing that has worked out.
Several people, including me, have credited Piniella with remaking the 2007 roster.
Ultimately, the mistakes are Hendry’s failures, because, as you said, they are his calls.
Step Two: Develop an organizational plan
by Shanghai Badger on Dec 14, 2011 10:42 PM CST up reply actions
Ok.
I meant getting rid of people more than acquiring.
Step Two: Develop an organizational plan
by Shanghai Badger on Dec 15, 2011 8:01 PM CST up reply actions
Well, guess what?
It doesn’t appear that either Dusty or Lou promoted a signing that did work out.
Look (to use a word Lou used often). I am well aware the GM is responsible for the roster. All I’m saying is that THE GENERAL MANAGER wound up signing a bunch of players that he likely would NOT have signed if not for the big-name manager wanting them.
Whether you care to believe it or not, that is the truth.
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by Al Yellon on Dec 15, 2011 7:08 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Riiiiight.
The fact that Koyie Hill got a 400,000 dollar raise in 2011 months after Lou had resigned blows your theory to smithereens. Whether you care to admit that or not, it’s the truth.
Theo! Good job, Tommy Boy!
Shoe...let it go.
Al has been OK with Hill being on the team AND the asinine GM who had to avoid arbitration with Koyie by giving him a big fat raise.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Dec 15, 2011 5:07 PM CST up reply actions
I'm simply going to point out that you are wrong.
Hill did not get a $400,000 raise after Lou had resigned.
He made $700,000 in 2010, and $850,000 in 2011.
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Also, Hendry would not have done this on his own?
Then why the hell was Koyie on the team in 2011?
Theo! Good job, Tommy Boy!
All the other Central teams are pissed off now
they knew they had 3-4 easy outs each game Hill played in. Now, they actually have to work for those outs.
I'm going to the 2012 Randy Hundley Fantasy Camp!!! Who's with me?
Can I break out the champagne?
Seriously, they should never have let Blanco go. I never for the life of me understood why they let him go in the first place. I still say one of the biggest mistakes Quade made was playing Hill when they had Wellington Castillo on the roster. Also, I thought Hill had a lot of nerve for getting into a pissing contest with Ryan Theriot when Theriot signed with the Cardinals. The irony is that now they are both unemployed!
I did my back-up cub catcher rankings since 2000 as such
1. Henry Blanco
2. Mike Mahoney
3. Jeff Reed
4. Robert Machado
5. Koyie Hill
6. Paul Bako
oh that’s right, Hill beat out Bako! Oddly, the two lefties.
What are these based on?
Stats? Likability?
"[The Cubs] have a very famous tradition in baseball, and it will be nice to be part of turning it around." ~ Jamie Quirk, Bench Coach
you know
if hendry were still here then koyie would still have a job.time to move on.with hill in the lineup it was like having 2 pitchers swinging the bat.
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