Report: Cubs-Reds Deal Official, Sean Marshall For Travis Wood, Two Minor Leaguers
by Al Yellon on Dec 21, 2011 3:42 PM CST
in Chicago Cubs News
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PrintAs I posted yesterday, I've always liked Sean Marshall. Seemed like a good clubhouse guy, lefthanded, had talent that eventually found itself in becoming one of the top setup men in baseball the last two years.
I liked him enough to sponsor his Baseball-Reference page -- something I just recently renewed. I'll have to change the blurb there now that Marshall is now a member of the Cincinnati Reds, according to Bruce Levine at ESPN Chicago:
The Chicago Cubs and Cincinnati Reds have agreed to a trade in principle that will send pitcher Travis Wood and two minor-leaguers to the Cubs for left-handed reliever Sean Marshall, according to a source familiar with the situation.
The deal is pending physicals that have to be taken by all four players.
We don't yet know who the two minor leaguers are and probably won't until this deal is announced by press release from the Cubs. As I wrote Tuesday night, a one-for-one deal wasn't enough of a return for Marshall, but getting two minor leaguers in return makes it more equitable. Obviously, we won't be able to judge until we find out who those minor leaguers are.
This is the first truly significant deal made by Theo Epstein and Jed Hoyer -- I'd consider the Ian Stewart deal more "minor". It leaves a hole in the Cubs bullpen, but conceivably could strengthen the rotation, and gives the Cubs some salary relief, as Marshall was in line to earn $3.1 million this season, while Wood will be near the MLB minimum And except when he's pitching against the Cubs, I wish Marshall well.
I'll update this post when the deal is officially announced.
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It really must be Christmas time
Because I had earlier stated I just wanted one deal to get excited about, or that was at least interesting.
This fits the bill.
This is kinda sad, considering how great Marshall was
But I’m hoping Wood turns out great and that the two minor leagues could really cause an positive impact, however minor it may be, on the minor leagues. Looks like we probably won’t get game-changing prospects, though.
A LO PROFUNDOOO...NOO, NO, NO, NO, NO, NOO...DIGALE QUE NO A ESA PELOTA!!!
GANAN LOS CACHORROS DE CHICAGO!!
Did Theo let the Reds know that Marshall plays LF too! That drives up value!!!!! Hehe
"You win because of the quarterback. We have to get that position stabilized. We're fixated on that." -- Jerry Angelo (12.30.2008)
Jerry Angelo trades for Jay Cutler! (4.2.2009)
by SackMan on Dec 21, 2011 3:48 PM CST reply actions 3 recs
Wood had a terrific 2010
but sucked for the first part of 2011. From June 10 until the end of the season (SSS alert) he posted something like a 2.40ish ERA over 33 innings while suffering through a .340ish BABIP.
In the minors he would get promoted mid-season, suck the rest of the year and come back next year, rock the cat box and get promoted again only to suck once more, lather rinse repeat.
considering the Reds as a team were down last year
I am hoping so…he has shown flashes of #2-3 starter material but hopefully this is a case where Wood is an ok acquisition and the minor leaguers become the next Chris Archer
Alternate headline to this post
Forgetting Sean Marshall
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by Al Yellon on Dec 21, 2011 3:48 PM CST reply actions 8 recs
Wonderfull
"You win because of the quarterback. We have to get that position stabilized. We're fixated on that." -- Jerry Angelo (12.30.2008)
Jerry Angelo trades for Jay Cutler! (4.2.2009)
And if someone could photoshop the movie poster...
…even better.
"[The Cubs] have a very famous tradition in baseball, and it will be nice to be part of turning it around." ~ Jamie Quirk, Bench Coach
That's usually my role, but I'll let someone else take it on
"You win because of the quarterback. We have to get that position stabilized. We're fixated on that." -- Jerry Angelo (12.30.2008)
Jerry Angelo trades for Jay Cutler! (4.2.2009)
done
and i like how tinypic has incorporated ad’s into their CAPTCHAs
by jesus christos on Dec 21, 2011 4:05 PM CST up reply actions 8 recs
I know more than a few ladies who will have a problem with that
"Just shut up and play" - Matt Garza
"Pain is inevitable, suffering is an option." - Dale Sveum
by RiskyBusiness on Dec 21, 2011 3:52 PM CST up reply actions
One slight correction
He will earn 3.1 million next year, He signed a 2yr deal last year to buy out his remaining 2 years of arbritration.
Thanks.
Had forgotten that. Will fix.
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Good.
No Jeff Francis, and presumably, no Maholm either. The rotation isn’t THAT bad, there’s just no… “ace.” Hopefully this team gets some offensive help.
THEO!
by wrigleyrocker12 on Dec 21, 2011 3:49 PM CST reply actions
No.
This isn’t necessarily a rebuild. We’ll still have to see what happens next. Remember, the Cubs got some salary relief here.
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There's nothing to buy for $3 million that's as good as Marshall...
Do you not buy the Kaplan column?
Sign Roy O
by guayzimi on Dec 21, 2011 4:06 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Unless they're going to spend that money on Fielder or someone else,
it doesn’t make much sense.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Dec 21, 2011 4:14 PM CST up reply actions
It makes plenty of sense.
Lord, it’s like you were just ignoring everything Theo said when he got here
by Nunyabidness on Dec 21, 2011 4:15 PM CST up reply actions
I didn't ignore a thing
Sounds like some of you did, though.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Dec 21, 2011 4:16 PM CST up reply actions
Enlighten me
What do you think he said that I’m ignoring?
by Nunyabidness on Dec 21, 2011 4:17 PM CST up reply actions
That you can "rebuild"
and not sacrifice the present, either. Remember, we can walk and chew gum at the same time in Chicago.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Dec 21, 2011 4:17 PM CST up reply actions
I have no idea how you can spin a Marshall-Wood trade as anything other than step 1 of a rebuild...
clearly this makes the team worse in 2012 and better in 2013 and beyond.
Sign Roy O
I would argue it makes the team better for next year, and the years after.
THEO!
by wrigleyrocker12 on Dec 21, 2011 4:20 PM CST up reply actions
That's ridiculous...
The Reds rotation stunk last year and Wood still couldn’t manage to stay in it… He’ll be better in Wrigley, and he certainly has potential, but he’s not likely to be better than some of the pitchers on the free agent market who could’ve been had on one year deals.
Sign Roy O
And when you look the fact that his ERA would have ranked 3rd among our starters last year, I think he makes us better.
THEO!
by wrigleyrocker12 on Dec 21, 2011 4:34 PM CST up reply actions
almost anyone would make a better SP then
our college of pitchers #5 spot
The Stat Pack
by shoemile on Oct 21, 2011 10:10 PM CDT
by Madison Cub Fan on Dec 21, 2011 4:40 PM CST up reply actions
Yet he still, arguably, outperformed anyone not named Garza in the Cubs rotation
Especially away from GAB.
THEO!
by wrigleyrocker12 on Dec 21, 2011 4:41 PM CST up reply actions
And he is under control for 5 more years.
Marshall was gone one way or another either at the trade deadline or next season. We’ve got Wood for another five years. Long term this could be a great deal.
not having to basically concede 20% of the games
should help the Cubs at least a handful more games
The Stat Pack
by shoemile on Oct 21, 2011 10:10 PM CDT
by Madison Cub Fan on Dec 21, 2011 4:48 PM CST up reply actions
Yes, a 5th starter to go .500
would improve the team by several games. Anyone know what our record was in games started by whoever was the current 5th starter?
I think 10-27 by starting pitcher
So probably about 20-25 games below .500 all told.
[...]when Giants coach Steve Owen, a certified defensive genius, was asked how he planned to stop Nagurski, he said: "With a shotgun, as he’s leaving the dressing room."
by NobodySpecial on Dec 21, 2011 6:26 PM CST up reply actions
I'm guessing by your sig line...
…that you’re referring to Roy O. And I’d agree the Cubs should still look into Oswalt, but this deal is still a good value.
"[The Cubs] have a very famous tradition in baseball, and it will be nice to be part of turning it around." ~ Jamie Quirk, Bench Coach
He wants the Cards to sign Roy Oswalt
"Keep pushin' til' it's understood. And these badlands start treating us good."
Ah, a traitor in our midst.
Seize him!
"[The Cubs] have a very famous tradition in baseball, and it will be nice to be part of turning it around." ~ Jamie Quirk, Bench Coach
Seize him, too!
Seize everybody!
"[The Cubs] have a very famous tradition in baseball, and it will be nice to be part of turning it around." ~ Jamie Quirk, Bench Coach
I think this is the first time in history
I’ve heard the phrase, “…he’ll pitch better in Wrigley.”
by San Diego Smooth Jazz Man on Dec 21, 2011 4:37 PM CST up reply actions
I'm not even willing to concede it makes us that much worse.
Our rotation was a severe weak point last year. Marshall was very good, but it is easier to replace a good bullpen guy.
by Nunyabidness on Dec 21, 2011 4:21 PM CST up reply actions
And in 49 innings of relief
Jeff Russell had a 2.19 ERA last year. He’ll step in, and hopefully continue to do a good job.
Theo! Good job, Tommy Boy!
He moves into that role.
So a rotation of Garza, Dempster, Wood, Wells, and Cashner. Or do we include Zambrano and move Cashner to the bullpen?
better 6 SP options than 4
10-25-2011. Theo Epstein joins the Cubs. Now, the fun begins.
At present, Cashner is in the pen
I think we’re going to have to live with Zambrano on the Cubs until at least July 31st
by Nunyabidness on Dec 21, 2011 4:46 PM CST up reply actions
In that scenario...
…I’d have Cashner starting in Iowa.
"[The Cubs] have a very famous tradition in baseball, and it will be nice to be part of turning it around." ~ Jamie Quirk, Bench Coach
Unless Sveum wants to start him.
Author at Acme Packing Company, SB Nation's Green Bay Packers blog.
Sign Prince Fielder!
State high point count: 4/50
If you are grouchy, irritable, or just plain mean, there will be a $10 charge for putting up with you.
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Dec 21, 2011 5:12 PM CST up reply actions
I think that would be the end of BCB as we know it.
"[The Cubs] have a very famous tradition in baseball, and it will be nice to be part of turning it around." ~ Jamie Quirk, Bench Coach
I know, that's what I was getting at.
Author at Acme Packing Company, SB Nation's Green Bay Packers blog.
Sign Prince Fielder!
State high point count: 4/50
If you are grouchy, irritable, or just plain mean, there will be a $10 charge for putting up with you.
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Dec 21, 2011 5:18 PM CST up reply actions
Not necessarily.
If Wood can pull it together and be a good 4th-5th starter, he could give us the 2-3 WAR that Marshall has provided over the last couple of seasons.
"[The Cubs] have a very famous tradition in baseball, and it will be nice to be part of turning it around." ~ Jamie Quirk, Bench Coach
How does it make it better in 2013 and beyond?
If these guys don’t pan out, it most certainly doesn’t.
I think Wood has some promise, but you don’t know if this will be beneficial or not.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Dec 21, 2011 4:34 PM CST up reply actions
Ballhawk posted this quote from Theo in the Kaplan thread.
Pretty much sums up all you need to know.
“We’ve been consistent from Day 1 that our priorities are building this thing the right way, for the long haul, mainly through scouting and player development and through the acquisition of young players. The second priority is to take advantage of every opportunity to win that you have. But we’re not going to do anything to serve the second priority that disrupts the first.
Theo! Good job, Tommy Boy!
I don't see anything in that quote
… that says the team is doing a “total rebuild”, i.e. going all 2011 Astros.
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The point is where their priorities are.
Your first priority seems to be putting a team out there in 2012 that you enjoy watching. Unfortunately, Theo and Jed don’t see eye to eye with you. If putting out a 2011 Astros level team is what they believe will lead them to becoming a consistent contender, then that’s what they’re going to do.
Theo! Good job, Tommy Boy!
No, I think the team should have parallel priorities.
Build for the future AND try to win in 2012. You can do both.
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You can't always do both.
Sometimes you’re left with an organization of players that simply doesn’t allow you to do that. It’s fine that you want them to have parallel priorities. But they don’t. One is more important than the other.
Theo! Good job, Tommy Boy!
by shoemile on Dec 21, 2011 6:44 PM CST up reply actions 7 recs
I agree with the proposition
… to build a strong organization that can contend every year. Clearly, that’s what we all want, and they appear to have started doing that.
It also appears that they are attempting to “buy low” on players that could have significant upside, like Stewart and Wood. I like that.
I don’t think we’re disagreeing, maybe more debating terminology.
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competitively yes, a professional team attempts to win each game
But there are times when providing playing time to players who are not WS ready.
Be real, the talent on this team how does it stack up with Philly, AZ, StL or Mil last year….
Castro, Garza, Marmol, those are the only difference makers.
You can dump Soriano, Z, (36M) Dempster, Soto, Byrd?
A friend once told me: "I don't buy the idea that a team learns anything from a loss, the only thing they learn is how to lose games."---Knight
Sometimes you are put in an either/or situation...
like trading Marshall for young, cost-controlled pitching, or keeping Marshall and getting a starter on the free agent market. Clearly the Cubs are trading assets that will be useful i 2012 so they will be better in later years.
Sign Roy O
Again, there's no guarantee they'll be better
I’m not necessarily opposed to this trade, but some people are reacting like it’s the greatest deal ever.
Cool your jets a bit. If one of these prospects works out for the Cubs, maybe it will have been worth it. Trading within the division also is troublesome.
This could be a good deal for the Cubs. I know it’s a good deal for the Reds.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Dec 21, 2011 8:20 PM CST up reply actions
trading within the division.
If Sean Marshall is a 6 million dollar seup guy in 2013 for Cinci, he’d be beyond our desires anyway at that rate. It is a move that makes us better.
10-25-2011. Theo Epstein joins the Cubs. Now, the fun begins.
I disagree
but we’ll see. Right now, particularly if the minor-league return is a couple of nobodies, than it wasn’t worth doing.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Dec 21, 2011 8:27 PM CST up reply actions
The Rays are the kings of this.
Sell high, trade for prospects, develop them, sell high, etc… That’s what it takes to stay competitive yet not letting your payroll get out of control. Fortunately, our payroll is what, 2-3x that of TB? Unfortunately, a good portion of it is tied up in awful contracts. While I wish we still had Marshall, we got cheap, cost controlled players with positive upsides. This is the kind of trade good GM’s make.
"Whenever one finds himself in the majority, it is time to step back and reflect," Mark Twain.
by WindisBlowingOut! on Dec 21, 2011 8:59 PM CST up reply actions
I think this deal is as much about trading from strength to improve weakness
Marshall is a fine relief pitcher, but the dropoff from him to the next 8th inning option is not nearly as severe as the drop between a real MLB starter (which Wood should be) and the motley collection the Cubs employed as #5 starters in 2011 (and were still on tap for 2012). The team has a pretty good stock of relievers, but starting pitchers are thin on the ground.
If it works (Wood becomes at least a #4 starter), this deal should improve the Cubs both in 2012 and beyond.
What part of Epstein's quote are you not understanding?
To use your terminology, Epstein wants to “win in 2012” as long as it doesn’t disrupt the plan to “build for the future”.
So yeah, you can try to do both – but if there’s a conflict, building for the future trumps winning in 2012.
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
by ballhawk on Dec 21, 2011 8:23 PM CST up reply actions 4 recs
Just have to be willing to have a decent payroll and not sign older guys to long-term contracts
So far, so good. There should still be money to spend on 2012 payroll.
You're right that there's nothing in the quote
to suggest a TOTAL rebuild. The proof will be in their actions. If they don’t sign Fielder, I’m not sure how it can be argued that this isn’t a total rebuild.
The $30M of Fukudome and Ramirez have been replaced with $6M. First base could be replaced with Rizzo starting out in the minors and LaHair as the Opening Day 1bman. The trade for Rizzo will most likely mean Garza would be gone. Then there’s 2 other starting pitchers with expiring contracts after 2012. If that’s not a total rebuild, I’m not sure what is. Soriano looks like he’s got a full foot out the door already.
But, it is far too early to say how far down they are willing to dig before they start to rebuild. If they don’t sign Fielder, I think it’s logical to assume they they aren’t going down to the studs, but completely knocking the house down and starting new.
by jerry morales rules on Dec 21, 2011 6:53 PM CST up reply actions
I think your 1B scenario carries the value shopping just a little too far
Rizzo was OK in the minors and didn’t breakout until he started playing in the Thin Dry Air Division of the PCL. He made a major move from his .815 OPS in Portland in 2010. He wind up as a fine player, but that is not for sure.
Fielder’s OPS was lower last year, but he posted that .981 in the NL Central. The Cubs should be a high payroll team. This is a place where they can pay for some certainty, especially since Fielder won’t be 28 until next May.
I agree with what you wrote
But the proof will be in the moves that Theo and Jed make in the next few weeks. Yes, they’ve said a lot of things, but they also could be just playing possum. We’ll know a lot more about what they really think of the organization and how they are going to build in the next few weeks.
If they don’t sign Fielder, it’s total re-build time.
by jerry morales rules on Dec 21, 2011 9:29 PM CST up reply actions
Bruce, it really is time for you to come around to the reality that we were not going to compete this season
Knowing that, getting rid of the last year of Marshall, for a decent young starting pitcher makes perfect sense.
This isn’t sacrificing the present, this is understanding that at present, we aren’t a good team.
by Nunyabidness on Dec 21, 2011 4:20 PM CST up reply actions 3 recs
One season of non-competing
Can turn into multiple seasons pretty easily.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Dec 21, 2011 4:25 PM CST up reply actions
yes, as a good example of this...
see the 2009-2001 Chicago Cubs
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Dec 21, 2011 4:26 PM CST up reply actions
2001 = 2011
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Dec 21, 2011 4:26 PM CST up reply actions
wait - so does that make me 10 years older or younger?
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
what's the story on him - is he still property of the Marlins? FA?
or is he still in legal hot water?
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
I believe I heard they gave him a new contract.
by Nunyabidness on Dec 21, 2011 4:32 PM CST up reply actions
Wonder how he signed it.
"[The Cubs] have a very famous tradition in baseball, and it will be nice to be part of turning it around." ~ Jamie Quirk, Bench Coach
REVEAL YOUR SOURCES
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Dec 21, 2011 4:38 PM CST up reply actions
so 2013
should be pretty darn good.
Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.
by drewishdrewid on Dec 21, 2011 4:34 PM CST up reply actions
Chicago Cubs, 2009-present.
Author at Acme Packing Company, SB Nation's Green Bay Packers blog.
Sign Prince Fielder!
State high point count: 4/50
If you are grouchy, irritable, or just plain mean, there will be a $10 charge for putting up with you.
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Dec 21, 2011 5:12 PM CST up reply actions
what kind
ill take anything but kettlecorn
Mike Brown is the true definition of a businessman:
1.Build bare essentials to run business(PB Stadium)-✔
2.Hire cheap players-✔
3.When you suck don't give in to anyone's demands-✔
4. Change is a bad thing-✔
by RIP Slim on Dec 21, 2011 4:19 PM CST via Android app up reply actions
You know, sometimes I think he really is Bruce Froemming…
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
If so, someone's gotta change their username to Milt Pappas.
"[The Cubs] have a very famous tradition in baseball, and it will be nice to be part of turning it around." ~ Jamie Quirk, Bench Coach
When Theo spoke about making a mistake with contracts...
I think he meant he wouldn’t sign Prince if he wanted a really long deal, which is exactly what he’s doing.
THEO!
by wrigleyrocker12 on Dec 21, 2011 4:18 PM CST up reply actions
Not a fan of acquiring starting pitching?
The Cubs seemed to have some struggles with that last year.
Theo! Good job, Tommy Boy!
Here are your choices
A) Trade Marshall and acquire a controlled pitcher for multiple years.
B) Keep Marshall and potentially get nothing when he becomes a free agent after 2012.
"Just shut up and play" - Matt Garza
"Pain is inevitable, suffering is an option." - Dale Sveum
by RiskyBusiness on Dec 21, 2011 4:18 PM CST up reply actions
Or C)
Keep Marshall beyond 2012.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Dec 21, 2011 4:19 PM CST up reply actions
Or C)
Keep Marshall beyond 2012 by paying a ridiculous amount of money for a relief pitcher.
FTFY
by jesus christos on Dec 21, 2011 4:20 PM CST up reply actions
How about D)
Trade Marshall for a controlled pitcher for multiple years and sign Marshall as a free agent after 2012?
by Nunyabidness on Dec 21, 2011 4:22 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
That's not an option you can dictate
That’s an option you can only hope to negotiate.
"Just shut up and play" - Matt Garza
"Pain is inevitable, suffering is an option." - Dale Sveum
by RiskyBusiness on Dec 21, 2011 4:23 PM CST up reply actions
But we can walk and chew gum so it's a done deal
by Nunyabidness on Dec 21, 2011 4:25 PM CST up reply actions
i get stomach aches when i walk and chew gum at the same time
by jesus christos on Dec 21, 2011 4:25 PM CST up reply actions
pat your belly and rub your head - you'll be fine
"Just shut up and play" - Matt Garza
"Pain is inevitable, suffering is an option." - Dale Sveum
by RiskyBusiness on Dec 21, 2011 4:26 PM CST up reply actions
Rebuilding this team starting from the bottom up makes perfect baseball sense
I always turn to the sports section first. The sports page records people's accomplishments; the front page has nothing but man's failures.
~Earl Warren
by lookingdeadred on Dec 21, 2011 5:57 PM CST up reply actions
while this is true
it doesn’t make financial sense on profit sides. We knock down the house and there goes your profits for the year too
Mike Brown is the true definition of a businessman:
1.Build bare essentials to run business(PB Stadium)-✔
2.Hire cheap players-✔
3.When you suck don't give in to anyone's demands-✔
4. Change is a bad thing-✔
by RIP Slim on Dec 21, 2011 8:02 PM CST via Android app up reply actions
True
But aren’t the Cubs going to have their own network in the next few years? That’ll bring in all that lost revenue. The Cubs will sell tickets, but the won’t sell out, nor will they be the Marlins. The ticket sales and revenue will increase as the team gets better. This team has to rebuild, yet making 1 or 2 big signings to keep the average fans interested is a must.
"Whenever one finds himself in the majority, it is time to step back and reflect," Mark Twain.
by WindisBlowingOut! on Dec 21, 2011 9:02 PM CST up reply actions
not sure
but if true that wouldn’t cover the 2012 revenues which would take a major hit. they should get fielder imo because we are at least a season away from any comparison to the phillies or giants, and he would be a great way to bring in revenue while building a team around him
Mike Brown is the true definition of a businessman:
1.Build bare essentials to run business(PB Stadium)-✔
2.Hire cheap players-✔
3.When you suck don't give in to anyone's demands-✔
4. Change is a bad thing-✔
by RIP Slim on Dec 22, 2011 3:34 AM CST via Android app up reply actions
Are you okay with him getting
the 10 year deal he wants. I’m not. Give him seven. Give him a nickel over Albert for the first 6. Give him 15 million more for each year he has oneWS AB for the Cubs (or something).
But in no way guarantee anything in year 8.
10-25-2011. Theo Epstein joins the Cubs. Now, the fun begins.
no
I’m comfortable with 6 with options on 7 and 8.
Mike Brown is the true definition of a businessman:
1.Build bare essentials to run business(PB Stadium)-✔
2.Hire cheap players-✔
3.When you suck don't give in to anyone's demands-✔
4. Change is a bad thing-✔
by RIP Slim on Dec 22, 2011 12:37 PM CST via Android app up reply actions
This is a really interesting trade
Reliable lefty setup men are very hard to find, and Marshall was just that. Wood is 5 years younger, obviously had a handful of bad starts last year, but basically it is trading a top league setup guy for a #4 starter.
...which is generally a pretty fair deal value-wise.
And we’re getting two minor leaguers on top of it.
"[The Cubs] have a very famous tradition in baseball, and it will be nice to be part of turning it around." ~ Jamie Quirk, Bench Coach
I think Russell will do an adequate job. He was pretty good last year when he was used properly.
"You win because of the quarterback. We have to get that position stabilized. We're fixated on that." -- Jerry Angelo (12.30.2008)
Jerry Angelo trades for Jay Cutler! (4.2.2009)
I think pretty good is quite the understatement...
In the bullpen Russy was fantastic.
"Beisbol been berry berry good to me." -Tony Oliva
Sad because I liked Marshall a lot.
But you gotta give to get. Hope the minor leaguers got some skills.
Theo! Good job, Tommy Boy!
Agreed - always liked Marshall
Best wishes to him unless we’re playing the Reds….
Get 'em on, Get 'em over, Get 'em in!
Me too, great guy and pitcher
The minor leaguers better be able to play or this trade sucks! Wood is poop armed lefty, dime a dozen.
"Go Cubs!"
by Itchy on Dec 21, 2011 3:55 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
I am absolutely SHOCKED that you found something to complain about
It doesn’t seem your style
by Nunyabidness on Dec 21, 2011 3:56 PM CST up reply actions
Rec'd for "poop armed lefty."
Not that I necessarily agree — Wood is young and cost-controlled with some upside. In fact, he’s not unlike a young Sean Marshall.
"[The Cubs] have a very famous tradition in baseball, and it will be nice to be part of turning it around." ~ Jamie Quirk, Bench Coach
poop armed?
does this mean he throws a poop pitch? I bet it’s a strike every time, but Soto’s gonna wanna lay in a new supply of mitts.
Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.
by drewishdrewid on Dec 21, 2011 4:17 PM CST up reply actions
It's kinda like an Eephus pitch...
…only messier.
"[The Cubs] have a very famous tradition in baseball, and it will be nice to be part of turning it around." ~ Jamie Quirk, Bench Coach
eeeew.
and now the umpires want lexan facemasks and a squeegee.
Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.
by drewishdrewid on Dec 21, 2011 4:35 PM CST up reply actions
And with a name like monkeybiz
You should know about flinging poop.
;-)
Step Two: Develop an organizational plan
by Shanghai Badger on Dec 21, 2011 10:10 PM CST up reply actions
WE'VE GOT WOOD!
Which also would have been a fantastic headline to this post
by Nunyabidness on Dec 21, 2011 3:58 PM CST up reply actions
And then next week (or whenever Kerry signs) the headline could be "CUBS GET MORE WOOD"
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
Followed by the disclaimer of:
Wood lasting longer than 4 hours…
may addition by subtraction be real
In this case it would be:
“If your Wood can’t last longer than nine innings in a game, call your bullpen.”
"[The Cubs] have a very famous tradition in baseball, and it will be nice to be part of turning it around." ~ Jamie Quirk, Bench Coach
Now the Cubs have to go out and get Brandon Wood.
You know, to make sure they have Wood everywhere.
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"Time to call a doctor:
Cubs have wood for days with signing of Brandon Wood"
www.facebook.com/craighudak
by Craig in South Bend on Dec 21, 2011 10:55 PM CST up reply actions
Either that or.......
Call more ladies!!!
" Tell me something Steve, How does a guy from Puerto Rico lose a ball in the Sun? "
I think Marmol and Soto are staying put for now...
Garza/ Not so sure about that…
Get 'em on, Get 'em over, Get 'em in!
Marmol, one of Hendry's untouchables from last offseason when his value was at its zenith,
is now not worth a whole lot. Here’s hoping he can look good early in the season and bring in a nice haul around trade deadline time.
or ANY haul should we be where we think we will come the trade deadline.
by Nunyabidness on Dec 21, 2011 4:12 PM CST up reply actions
gosh I hope both
Cubs have system depth in both areas and shedding their liabilities with talent return would be a movement in the right direction
A friend once told me: "I don't buy the idea that a team learns anything from a loss, the only thing they learn is how to lose games."---Knight
I'm with you on that one.
Byrd is also a good guy, but we need to move on.
Join us for complete MLB coverage at SB Nation's Baseball Nation
As I said in another thread
Byrd lost the “good guy” status with me when he chose to defend an opponent over his young teammate last year
by Nunyabidness on Dec 21, 2011 3:57 PM CST up reply actions
I still want to charge Matt Holiday
"Just shut up and play" - Matt Garza
"Pain is inevitable, suffering is an option." - Dale Sveum
by RiskyBusiness on Dec 21, 2011 4:32 PM CST up reply actions
Yeah, a spot needs to be opened for Jackson.
THEO!
by wrigleyrocker12 on Dec 21, 2011 3:57 PM CST up reply actions
Which probably won't be opened
until June 15 so they can get an extra year out of Jackson and move someone as wel get closer to the trade deadline where Byrd would have max value.
I will go with Soto
I don’t think teams will pay for Garza’s price and that would be the white flag trade.
Soto has some decent replacements. I think Soto will bring us some decent talent.
Look at the dropoff to potential replacements + cost
If the Stat Pack likes Castillo/Clevenger, could be Soto. Marmol is probably available but his contract makes moving him hard.
Very sad to see him go...
…especially to a division opponent. I’ve been a fan of Marshall’s since his debut against the Cardinals in 2006. But I can see the logic and value behind this deal.
"[The Cubs] have a very famous tradition in baseball, and it will be nice to be part of turning it around." ~ Jamie Quirk, Bench Coach
Marshall
A few thoughts on this deal
- First off, the Reds are making a one year deal for Marshall. This is a team that is seemingly resigned to losing Joey Votto in the next year or two. I cannot see them paying Marshall what likely will be a 3-4 year deal for $5-6M/year unless he totally falls off a cliff. Especially if Wood rebounds and shows that his 2010 season wasn’t an aberration, and if the Cubs end up getting some decent prospects, in the long term, the Reds could look very silly with Wood being a solid starter for the Cubs and Marshall being in a Yankee or Red Sox uniform.
- I understand why Cub fans would have some angst towards a move like this… we’re just not used to these types of moves. Jim Hendry earned his pay by signing free agents, not making somewhat risky but creative trades. We’re not used to losing players like this, but I like the idea that we’ve got a GM who is going to examine every route to improve the club, especially over the long haul.
by dmlichte on Dec 21, 2011 3:55 PM CST reply actions 5 recs
Good thoughts dm
Who knows, maybe Marshall comes back to the Northside and brings Joey V with him …
"We gotta circle the bandwagons." - Devin Hester
by Jose's Eyelid on Dec 21, 2011 3:56 PM CST up reply actions
If Jim Hendry were still Cubs GM
… Marshall would still be a Cub. That was the downside of Hendry’s loyalty.
Join us for complete MLB coverage at SB Nation's Baseball Nation
there was a variety of downsides of JH
unless you were one of his favorite players
The Stat Pack
by shoemile on Oct 21, 2011 10:10 PM CDT
by Madison Cub Fan on Dec 21, 2011 4:06 PM CST up reply actions
I really hope guys like John Grabow and Aaron Miles buy Hendry a nice Christmas gift every year.
They owe that dude a hell of a lot.
Theo! Good job, Tommy Boy!
how can forget bcb favorite
Koyie Hill
Yet had the Cubs gotton rid of JH when I wanted them to, who knows who becomes the GM.
The Stat Pack
by shoemile on Oct 21, 2011 10:10 PM CDT
by Madison Cub Fan on Dec 21, 2011 4:14 PM CST up reply actions
i just thinking that the other day, actually
if hendry was fired after the 09 season hoyer might be here anyways
by jesus christos on Dec 21, 2011 4:15 PM CST up reply actions
but at that point was TR aware that was what was needed?
He was still IMHO acting like a kid with a new toy.
The Stat Pack
by shoemile on Oct 21, 2011 10:10 PM CDT
by Madison Cub Fan on Dec 21, 2011 4:31 PM CST up reply actions
I don't think TR was at all.
And I agree with your assessment. Better late than never, though.
Theo! Good job, Tommy Boy!
I must admit I SHOCKED when he got TheoJed
The Stat Pack
by shoemile on Oct 21, 2011 10:10 PM CDT
by Madison Cub Fan on Dec 21, 2011 4:38 PM CST up reply actions
Yup
I honestly believe that the 2012 Cubs, had Hendry stuck around would see Aramis signed to a 3-4 year extension (likely $14-$16M/Season), Cruz signed to a two year deal, and modest upgrades to the rotation. Might be a .500 team, but nothing closer to winning a championship.
you think 2012 cubs would be a .500 team?
The Stat Pack
by shoemile on Oct 21, 2011 10:10 PM CDT
by Madison Cub Fan on Dec 21, 2011 4:15 PM CST up reply actions
2012 Cubs
I think that taking a very short term approach, this team could have been patched to a 78-82 win team. Keep Aramis, retain Pena (not sure why I wrote Cruz up there), overpay for a starter… ya, I think they could have approached the .500 mark. But I think that scenario would not get the team any closer to a championship.
you are way more glass half full than me then
In my 25 years of being a Cub fan I think last year was one of the worst I’ve ever listened to.
The Stat Pack
by shoemile on Oct 21, 2011 10:10 PM CDT
by Madison Cub Fan on Dec 21, 2011 4:32 PM CST up reply actions
I don't disagree
Last year was a bad team that really underperformed. What would have taken away from any improvement is that the coaching staff likely would have remained intact. But the essential premise is that I think that Hendry could have overspent for marginal to moderate improvement, but not gotten the team any closer to a championship.
well, look at it this way...
2011 was a bad team heading in the wrong direction.
2012 could be an equally bad team (maybe even a little worse) but at least they’re heading in the right direction.
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
by ballhawk on Dec 21, 2011 5:16 PM CST up reply actions 8 recs
Exactly.
Author at Acme Packing Company, SB Nation's Green Bay Packers blog.
Sign Prince Fielder!
State high point count: 4/50
If you are grouchy, irritable, or just plain mean, there will be a $10 charge for putting up with you.
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Dec 21, 2011 5:23 PM CST up reply actions
We'll see
You can be young and bad or old and bad.
I’ve seen that happen with a lot of high school basketball teams. You get a bunch of freshman and sophomores playing varsity and you think, “just wait until they’re seniors.” But a lot of times — most of the time — they don’t pan out.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Dec 21, 2011 5:37 PM CST up reply actions
Wha? Most of the time
freshman and sophomores don’t….Oh nevermind. You are like a characature.
Or like when the Blackhawks had a good young nucleus with Toews,
Kane, Keith, Hjarmolsson and Seabrook. You thought, Jeez, this team seems on the brink of something good. But we all know how disappointing… Oh, wait.
by the nth on Dec 21, 2011 6:08 PM CST up reply actions 3 recs
Um, those were can't-miss guys
If Travis Wood is in the same class as Patrick Kane, you might have a point.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Dec 21, 2011 8:22 PM CST up reply actions
I remember one looney on the Blackhawks forum
Who still wants to trade Kane for Kyle Turris.
Also, some people were shocked we picked Kane over James Van Reimsdyk.
Yeah,
I suppose that’s why the Bulls in 1991 weren’t going anywhere, to say nothing of a multi-year dynasty.
Author at Acme Packing Company, SB Nation's Green Bay Packers blog.
Sign Prince Fielder!
State high point count: 4/50
If you are grouchy, irritable, or just plain mean, there will be a $10 charge for putting up with you.
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Dec 21, 2011 7:29 PM CST up reply actions
Is Travis Wood as good as Michael Jordan?
If he isn’t, then you really shouldn’t talk, VCF.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Dec 21, 2011 8:23 PM CST up reply actions
He doesn't have to be.
He could also be something like a Toni Kukoc-like player.
Note that I never said anything about Wood being as good as Jordan.
Author at Acme Packing Company, SB Nation's Green Bay Packers blog.
Sign Prince Fielder!
State high point count: 4/50
If you are grouchy, irritable, or just plain mean, there will be a $10 charge for putting up with you.
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Dec 21, 2011 8:24 PM CST up reply actions
Your point being
the 1991 Bulls, who also had the greatest player in NBA history. I don’t think Castro is a baseball parallel.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Dec 21, 2011 8:30 PM CST up reply actions
I don't think so either.
You see, we can agree on things! :-)
Author at Acme Packing Company, SB Nation's Green Bay Packers blog.
Sign Prince Fielder!
State high point count: 4/50
If you are grouchy, irritable, or just plain mean, there will be a $10 charge for putting up with you.
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Dec 21, 2011 8:32 PM CST up reply actions
Agreed. The 2011 Cubs finished 5th.
I don’t understand the angst and fear over making changes to try to strengthen the club and build for the long haul. If they get lucky with their moves and they immediately pan out in 2012, great. But again, the current roster finished 5th.
We know what the last few years have looked like. No thanks.
There are 108 beads in a Catholic rosary and there are 108 stitches in a baseball. Who says baseball isn't a religion? (Now #8452 in the Cubs Season Ticket Wait List...)
by Zeke on Dec 21, 2011 7:40 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
The main difference between 2011 and this year,
Is that we now have a new GM, and a new manager. Most importantly, Theo knows full well about how to build long-term to make a winner of baseball teams. That’s giving me hope about being able to compete again once some of the unmovable contracts come off the payroll here.
Author at Acme Packing Company, SB Nation's Green Bay Packers blog.
Sign Prince Fielder!
State high point count: 4/50
If you are grouchy, irritable, or just plain mean, there will be a $10 charge for putting up with you.
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Dec 21, 2011 5:25 PM CST up reply actions
Any manager other than Quade would have gotten the Cubs at least a handful of more wins last year
"IN THEO WE TRUST"
but a manager whose 1/10 qualified to be a manager
won’t have let Marmol stay in some of those situations. If I dollar for each time I said about Marmol this isn’t going to end well, during the inning. I could pay part of our trip to Spring Training next year.
The Stat Pack
by shoemile on Oct 21, 2011 10:10 PM CDT
by Madison Cub Fan on Dec 21, 2011 7:02 PM CST up reply actions
Can I come, too?
"Whenever one finds himself in the majority, it is time to step back and reflect," Mark Twain.
by WindisBlowingOut! on Dec 21, 2011 9:04 PM CST up reply actions
The Cubs were basically a .500 team last year
Quade turned them into a less than .500 team by pitching to Pujols and leaving Marmol out there when he couldn’t throw a strike to save his life.
"IN THEO WE TRUST"
+1
Green’ed.
Author at Acme Packing Company, SB Nation's Green Bay Packers blog.
Sign Prince Fielder!
State high point count: 4/50
If you are grouchy, irritable, or just plain mean, there will be a $10 charge for putting up with you.
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Dec 21, 2011 5:14 PM CST up reply actions
Going to miss Marshall's killer Curve
Although I am excited to see if Wood can get back to his 2010 form.
I was looking at his 2010 season and his numbers were very similar to Ted Lilly’s numbers in 2007.
If Wood can be the next Ted Lilly then we clearly won the deal.
He might be the young Ted...
Guys named Travis are usually NBFW.
"Elder White! Look at the talent on those Cubs!" Harry Caray, KMOX Radio, 4/22/62
"And you have to wonder – What's the matter with Broglio?" Harry, KMOX, 5/24/64
Are you talking to me?..........
Are you……talking…….to me?…..
" Tell me something Steve, How does a guy from Puerto Rico lose a ball in the Sun? "
by aaronb on Dec 22, 2011 8:42 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Love It
Love this trade if only for the fact of getting great value for one of our players. When was the last time the Cubs traded a player when his value was the highest?
by TwinCitiesCubsFan on Dec 21, 2011 3:57 PM CST reply actions
Sean Gallagher?
Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.
by drewishdrewid on Dec 21, 2011 4:31 PM CST up reply actions
The Sledgehammer!
"[The Cubs] have a very famous tradition in baseball, and it will be nice to be part of turning it around." ~ Jamie Quirk, Bench Coach
now if Texas
takes Byrd from us in exchange it will be a true Xmas.
eh who am I kidding. just sign fielder.
Mike Brown is the true definition of a businessman:
1.Build bare essentials to run business(PB Stadium)-✔
2.Hire cheap players-✔
3.When you suck don't give in to anyone's demands-✔
4. Change is a bad thing-✔
by RIP Slim on Dec 21, 2011 3:58 PM CST via Android app reply actions
'scuse me?
"[The Cubs] have a very famous tradition in baseball, and it will be nice to be part of turning it around." ~ Jamie Quirk, Bench Coach
Well fuck...
who’s our emergency left-fielder NOW?
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Dec 21, 2011 4:00 PM CST reply actions
Matt Garza.
That guy can pick it.
"[The Cubs] have a very famous tradition in baseball, and it will be nice to be part of turning it around." ~ Jamie Quirk, Bench Coach
by daver on Dec 21, 2011 4:00 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Guys....we still have Blake DeWitt
we’re fine
by Nunyabidness on Dec 21, 2011 4:01 PM CST up reply actions
THIRD BASE!
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Dec 21, 2011 4:01 PM CST up reply actions
I don't know!
Author at Acme Packing Company, SB Nation's Green Bay Packers blog.
Sign Prince Fielder!
State high point count: 4/50
If you are grouchy, irritable, or just plain mean, there will be a $10 charge for putting up with you.
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Dec 21, 2011 7:29 PM CST up reply actions
ummm
bartman? dude can catch anything in left field. BRING HIM IN.
Mike Brown is the true definition of a businessman:
1.Build bare essentials to run business(PB Stadium)-✔
2.Hire cheap players-✔
3.When you suck don't give in to anyone's demands-✔
4. Change is a bad thing-✔
by RIP Slim on Dec 21, 2011 4:02 PM CST via Android app up reply actions
I'm curious to see...
who the minor leaguers are. Because trading Marshall, who has been ridiculously good the last two years (1.104 WHIP, 10.1 K/9) for Brandon Wood seems like a bad deal on the surface. I know we’re saving money here, but we could also save money by having Campana fill Reed Johnson’s role.
I heard
Reed re-signed a 1 year deal.
Mike Brown is the true definition of a businessman:
1.Build bare essentials to run business(PB Stadium)-✔
2.Hire cheap players-✔
3.When you suck don't give in to anyone's demands-✔
4. Change is a bad thing-✔
by RIP Slim on Dec 21, 2011 4:03 PM CST via Android app up reply actions
That's what he's saying
There was no need to sign Reed
by Nunyabidness on Dec 21, 2011 4:04 PM CST up reply actions
ah
gotcha. thought he was unaware reed re upped
Mike Brown is the true definition of a businessman:
1.Build bare essentials to run business(PB Stadium)-✔
2.Hire cheap players-✔
3.When you suck don't give in to anyone's demands-✔
4. Change is a bad thing-✔
by RIP Slim on Dec 21, 2011 4:10 PM CST via Android app up reply actions
Trading Marshall for Brandon Wood would suck...
But for Travis Wood, I think it’s a pretty good deal.
THEO!
by wrigleyrocker12 on Dec 21, 2011 4:03 PM CST up reply actions
Does Kerry get "1Wood" on the back of his jersey now?
And Travis gets “2Wood” on the back of his?
Get 'em on, Get 'em over, Get 'em in!
I prefer
a 5 wood. gives you better loft in the fairways
Mike Brown is the true definition of a businessman:
1.Build bare essentials to run business(PB Stadium)-✔
2.Hire cheap players-✔
3.When you suck don't give in to anyone's demands-✔
4. Change is a bad thing-✔
by RIP Slim on Dec 21, 2011 4:29 PM CST via Android app up reply actions
THE LACK OF SEXUAL INNUENDO IN THIS COMMENT ANGERS ME
by jesus christos on Dec 21, 2011 4:31 PM CST up reply actions
and he's gonna tell his dad.
Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.
by drewishdrewid on Dec 21, 2011 4:32 PM CST up reply actions
well
if his last name was vag..
I think we wore out wood when wood SR. joined us in the late 90’s
Mike Brown is the true definition of a businessman:
1.Build bare essentials to run business(PB Stadium)-✔
2.Hire cheap players-✔
3.When you suck don't give in to anyone's demands-✔
4. Change is a bad thing-✔
by RIP Slim on Dec 21, 2011 4:32 PM CST via Android app up reply actions
I think we wore out wood
THAT’S BETTER
by jesus christos on Dec 21, 2011 4:33 PM CST up reply actions
is mark prior available
because we can walk,chew gum and talk on our cellphone too
Mike Brown is the true definition of a businessman:
1.Build bare essentials to run business(PB Stadium)-✔
2.Hire cheap players-✔
3.When you suck don't give in to anyone's demands-✔
4. Change is a bad thing-✔
by RIP Slim on Dec 21, 2011 4:42 PM CST via Android app up reply actions
It's all going to depend on the minor leaguers
I know we all want Mesoroco or Hamilton, but I seriously doubt it’s either one of those. But it still might be someone good.
Otherwise I feel like we traded Marshall for a back of the rotation starter.
It just depends on which version of Travis Wood we acquired
The 2010 version was a strong #3. The 2011 version was a #4. Even if he’s the 4.00 FIP guy that he was last year, it’s pretty solid value for at least the next 2 pre-arb years.
The 2010 version was a fluke
However, if he were to regain the arm strength he had in the minors before his injuries, then he might be a #3. But I’m dubious on that.
by Josh Timmers on Dec 21, 2011 4:11 PM CST up reply actions
3.97 xFIP says it wasn't a fluke
That would have been a top 60 pitcher in the bigs last year, meaning he would have been a solid #3. He’s not likely to post a 3.42 ERA again, but Bill James projects a 3.75 ERA and 3.83 FIP for 2012.
Based off his peripherals
He had a very low BABIP and HR rate. The 3.51 ERA was greatly aided by some luck.
This
and on his established minor league record before that.
by Josh Timmers on Dec 21, 2011 5:16 PM CST up reply actions
Not really
But I wouldn’t expect a top five prospect. Probably not a top ten one, although maybe on that.
by Josh Timmers on Dec 21, 2011 6:11 PM CST up reply actions
Anyone from the Dayton Dragons?
They had a great team this past season. They wore out my Lugnuts- until the playoffs. Heh, heh, heh.
(And before anyone else says it, TWSS. There. Feel better?)
There are 108 beads in a Catholic rosary and there are 108 stitches in a baseball. Who says baseball isn't a religion? (Now #8452 in the Cubs Season Ticket Wait List...)
Perhaps Hamilton
10-25-2011. Theo Epstein joins the Cubs. Now, the fun begins.
You're kidding, right?
We could NOT keep him off the bases. One he got to first, he was at third in the blink of an eye.
There are 108 beads in a Catholic rosary and there are 108 stitches in a baseball. Who says baseball isn't a religion? (Now #8452 in the Cubs Season Ticket Wait List...)
He has been mentioned.
At least one prospect figures to be of value.
10-25-2011. Theo Epstein joins the Cubs. Now, the fun begins.
133 SB in 2011.
He had the green light to steal while he was in the clubhouse crapper.
And he still beat the throw to second.
There are 108 beads in a Catholic rosary and there are 108 stitches in a baseball. Who says baseball isn't a religion? (Now #8452 in the Cubs Season Ticket Wait List...)
did he do that with his pants around his ankles?
by jesus christos on Dec 21, 2011 8:35 PM CST up reply actions
and you wanted to be my latex salesman.
"Whenever one finds himself in the majority, it is time to step back and reflect," Mark Twain.
by WindisBlowingOut! on Dec 21, 2011 9:06 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Definitely not Mesoroco
wasn’t he the reason they felt comfortable including a C in the Latos deal?
The sun is up. They sky is blue. It's beautiful, and so are you. Dear Prudence, won't you come out to play? ~Lennon & McCartney
by SouthWabashSoul on Dec 21, 2011 8:48 PM CST up reply actions
Yeah, you're not getting Mesoraco
He and Hanigan will split catching duties this year…..rumor is the Rays wanted Mesoraco in deal for James Shields and the Reds passed and did the deal for Latos.
"There's only one god, and his name is Death. And what do we say to Death? Not today!" --- Syrio Forel, Game of Thrones
by cesarhernandez on Dec 21, 2011 8:55 PM CST up reply actions
No it doesn't
The difference between Wood and the Clown College is bigger than the difference between Marshall and Russell. Unless Wood’s arm falls off, this deal is accretive for 2012.
by ClarkFan on Dec 21, 2011 9:34 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
+1 for using accretive
Come visit me inside Wrigley along the Addison side mezzanine fence straight up from 1st base.
by section229beer on Dec 22, 2011 12:20 PM CST up reply actions
While I understand
the trade, I will miss Marshall. Hope he has a great year with the Reds except those times when he faces the Cubs.
Now if we can only get rid of some of the dead weight we have on the roster. Wishful thinking I know, cause they also make bookoo bucks……….poop on a stick.
Yay for acquiring another guy who the fringe fans will constantly refer to as "Woods"
That said, I like the deal. I always liked watching Marshall pitch, but on this team at this time, his skill set is a luxury they don’t need.
I think I speak for everyone here when I say, "Wait, what the hell are you talking about?"
hah, awesome deal imo
Marshall had one more yr on his contract and will most likely get a bigger contract next yr. The cubs might have gotten a number 3 starter AT BEST in this deal. I love what theo/jed have done this season. I know they havent made a big splash yet but some of these moves may become critical either this yr or within the next few yrs when they become contenders.
Plus, lets not overvalue Marshall please…hes a RP, not a SP!
Good job Theo
you moved a guy at the absolute peak of his value – something the previous guys were hesitant to do.
And when they did, i.e., DeRosa,
they got crucified for it.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Dec 21, 2011 4:16 PM CST up reply actions
moving a guy at the peak of his value is only wise...
if you get something useful in return.
Holy crap NBF…LOOK AT WHAT HENDRY TRADED HIM FOR.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Dec 21, 2011 4:19 PM CST up reply actions
Gaub may be the LHP out the pen this year, so we shall see
"It will happen because our major-league coaching staff is more prepared than their counterparts across the field."
by louslovechild on Dec 21, 2011 4:21 PM CST up reply actions
Believau!
"[The Cubs] have a very famous tradition in baseball, and it will be nice to be part of turning it around." ~ Jamie Quirk, Bench Coach
His stuff is nasty
His control is a problem, of course.
by Josh Timmers on Dec 23, 2011 12:18 AM CST up reply actions
Colored be uninspired.
I usually have a soft spot for crazy K rates, even if it comes with high BB rates. But when you walk 5.8 per nine, it makes it pretty hard. Beliveau may not have quite as much “stuff”, but it’s still pretty good, has comparable K numbers to Gaub, and actually can hit the zone at a decent rate.
STOP PUTTING THINGS IN CONTEXT!!!
It ruins Bruce’s arguments!
by Nunyabidness on Dec 21, 2011 4:24 PM CST up reply actions
Why even play NBF game & give him attention?
The Stat Pack
by shoemile on Oct 21, 2011 10:10 PM CDT
by Madison Cub Fan on Dec 21, 2011 4:25 PM CST up reply actions
I'm actually quite fascinated by NBF's new role on BCB.
It’s very entertaining.
Theo! Good job, Tommy Boy!
Because I enjoy watching him twist himself into knots
by Nunyabidness on Dec 21, 2011 4:27 PM CST up reply actions
thanks guys
I appreciate your answers. :)
The Stat Pack
by shoemile on Oct 21, 2011 10:10 PM CDT
by Madison Cub Fan on Dec 21, 2011 4:28 PM CST up reply actions
Different time
2009 the cubs were in a win now mode.
2012 the cubs are in a rebuild mode.
Thus trading Marshall = smart
Trading DeRo with no back up third baseman on the roster and handing everyday duties to Little Mikey for 3 B arms while you are in the middle of your win now window = Jim Hendry.
by BrewCrew'sPrinceofDarkness on Dec 21, 2011 6:32 PM CST up reply actions 4 recs
but we just were all thinking highly of DeRo
We were sure shown what how wrong we were considering who we got in return plus how we have depth at that postition
The Stat Pack
by shoemile on Oct 21, 2011 10:10 PM CDT
by Madison Cub Fan on Dec 21, 2011 7:05 PM CST up reply actions
The Indians traded him a few months later
For a much better haul than we got.
" Tell me something Steve, How does a guy from Puerto Rico lose a ball in the Sun? "
Trading Marshall = dumb
if you don’t get back equal value. Not sure the Cubs did, but we won’t know for a while.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Dec 21, 2011 8:24 PM CST up reply actions
timing matters in these things...
trading a guy at peak value while contending… little different than trading a middle reliever for a 71 win team
get it?
follow me on twitter for fantasy sports analysis @http://twitter.com/DrewDinkmeyer or get the full analysis at www.fantistics.com
by DartmouthCubsFan on Dec 21, 2011 10:08 PM CST up reply actions
And that's not for another 14 days yet.
Step Two: Develop an organizational plan
by Shanghai Badger on Dec 22, 2011 3:01 PM CST up reply actions
Especially one that is in line for a big payday next year
Step Two: Develop an organizational plan
by Shanghai Badger on Dec 22, 2011 9:10 AM CST up reply actions
Time to call Rich Hill...
"The riches of the game are in the thrills, not the money." --Ernie Banks
by dtpollitt on Dec 21, 2011 4:18 PM CST via mobile reply actions
...
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Dec 21, 2011 4:20 PM CST up reply actions 2 recs
Well....
He DOES hit left-handed…
THEO!
by wrigleyrocker12 on Dec 21, 2011 4:21 PM CST up reply actions
...
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Dec 21, 2011 4:24 PM CST up reply actions
Hunter Pence better watch it.
"[The Cubs] have a very famous tradition in baseball, and it will be nice to be part of turning it around." ~ Jamie Quirk, Bench Coach
I wonder if the Reds convert Marshall to a starter?
I guess this all depends on Chapman’s availability, right?
Proud recipient of a hot dog shot from the Iowa Cubs hot dog gun.
Latest word is...
…they’re looking at him as a set-up man.
"[The Cubs] have a very famous tradition in baseball, and it will be nice to be part of turning it around." ~ Jamie Quirk, Bench Coach
I think that's still up in the air.
They seem to be deciding whether or not to re-sign Cordero.
"[The Cubs] have a very famous tradition in baseball, and it will be nice to be part of turning it around." ~ Jamie Quirk, Bench Coach
Not Chapman
Plan right now is to work him as a starter in Spring Training and he might start in AAA as a starter
"There's only one god, and his name is Death. And what do we say to Death? Not today!" --- Syrio Forel, Game of Thrones
by cesarhernandez on Dec 21, 2011 9:47 PM CST up reply actions
Wait - so now the Reds are the ones with a Marshall Plan?
That’s not how I remembered it from junior high…
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
by ballhawk on Dec 21, 2011 5:20 PM CST up reply actions 5 recs
LOL
Well played, good sir.
Author at Acme Packing Company, SB Nation's Green Bay Packers blog.
Sign Prince Fielder!
State high point count: 4/50
If you are grouchy, irritable, or just plain mean, there will be a $10 charge for putting up with you.
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Dec 21, 2011 5:27 PM CST up reply actions
Will miss "Marshie"
His hook is tremendous, and can get righthanders out to. But if Wood can be better than Wells I am on board.
Outside
opinion in two words.
Cubs Win.
Depends on the minor leagues on how big a win this is, but good move by Theo/Hoyer.
by McCutchenIsTheTruth on Dec 21, 2011 4:57 PM CST reply actions
The shirt
"You win because of the quarterback. We have to get that position stabilized. We're fixated on that." -- Jerry Angelo (12.30.2008)
Jerry Angelo trades for Jay Cutler! (4.2.2009)
Good riddance. Paul Assenmacher will aways be #45 to me....
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
Can't see the number here, but...
Author at Acme Packing Company, SB Nation's Green Bay Packers blog.
Sign Prince Fielder!
State high point count: 4/50
If you are grouchy, irritable, or just plain mean, there will be a $10 charge for putting up with you.
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Dec 21, 2011 5:23 PM CST up reply actions
I was 14 years old, sitting in the Fel-Pro luxury box with my Uncle yelling at the top of my lungs
“You’re a bum Assenmacher. You’re a bum!”
"You win because of the quarterback. We have to get that position stabilized. We're fixated on that." -- Jerry Angelo (12.30.2008)
Jerry Angelo trades for Jay Cutler! (4.2.2009)
wow, Donruss
nice find
Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.
they made a "learning series" of those cards. Kind of cool.
http://www.checkoutmycards.com/Cards,sr,=donruss+learning+series
"Whenever one finds himself in the majority, it is time to step back and reflect," Mark Twain.
by WindisBlowingOut! on Dec 21, 2011 9:08 PM CST up reply actions
Good bye ....****
Is Jim Hendry still around pulling the stings,,this is a very bad deal, just wait and see, they are tearing the team apart,,no third basemen and now one of the best pitchers,,must be a tax write off
by Larki40 on Dec 21, 2011 5:00 PM CST reply actions 3 recs
Rec'd as mini-rant.
"[The Cubs] have a very famous tradition in baseball, and it will be nice to be part of turning it around." ~ Jamie Quirk, Bench Coach
Yeah, I'm enjoying these recent arrivals.
"[The Cubs] have a very famous tradition in baseball, and it will be nice to be part of turning it around." ~ Jamie Quirk, Bench Coach
Plus, Jimbo is pulling the stings
I wonder how one pulls stings.
by Mulhollandmania on Dec 21, 2011 11:35 PM CST up reply actions
My grandma used to tell me to pack mud on them to get them out
Never have been stung by a bee, so don’t know if that works.
It is a bad deal if you look at the short term and without the minor leaguers.
But long term this deal is the kind that could turn the Cubs into a contender. We get a ML ready starter for 5 years at less cost than it would be to keep Marshall. It is a brick in the base of the foundation.
I like the move, but
this means we will need to add another lefty in the pen, which we needed anyways, and it will really force Kerry Wood and Marmol to step up their games in 2012.
Hopefully Travis will return to his 2010 form.
I will not be looking forward to seeing our hitters trying to figure out Marshall when we play Cincinnati this year.
BEAR DOWN!
Sveum Game '12
Gaub. Maine. Beliveau.
To join Russell.
LH relievers shouldn’t be what keeps us from 80 wins.
10-25-2011. Theo Epstein joins the Cubs. Now, the fun begins.
This...
A 5th starter who will go like, 3-18, will.
THEO!
by wrigleyrocker12 on Dec 21, 2011 5:18 PM CST up reply actions
If you think Francis is a good alternative to Travis Wood, well I wouldn't know what to say to you...
THEO!
by wrigleyrocker12 on Dec 21, 2011 5:19 PM CST up reply actions
A 5th starter who will go like, 3-18, will.
that’s jeff francis
by jesus christos on Dec 21, 2011 5:42 PM CST up reply actions
We have played decent against former Cubs Pitchers recently
Wood got crushed when he was on the Indians and Ted Lilly got knocked around last year.
Wood didn't so much
get crushed, as run his catcher to both on deck circles rounding up ild pitches.
10-25-2011. Theo Epstein joins the Cubs. Now, the fun begins.
This is the
worstest trade evah.
What? They haven’t announced it in full yet?
10-25-2011. Theo Epstein joins the Cubs. Now, the fun begins.
If this is it, Sean,
Thanks for all you did while on the Cubs.
I wish him well here on, and hopefully Wood pans out here. This could be spun any number of ways, but I’ll leave the puns to others. I wonder how Red Reporter is taking this.
Good luck, Sean. Hope to see you on the Cubs again soon.
Author at Acme Packing Company, SB Nation's Green Bay Packers blog.
Sign Prince Fielder!
State high point count: 4/50
If you are grouchy, irritable, or just plain mean, there will be a $10 charge for putting up with you.
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Dec 21, 2011 5:17 PM CST reply actions
Not happy about this at all
I was really happy with Marshall’s consistency in the bullpen. I guess if Kerry Wood returns, they believe the bullpen would be effective with him and Marmol leading the path. Plus, no Grabow to even consider pitching has to add wins to the team.
If Andrew Bailey is available and won’t cost too much, I think he would be a great fit for the Cubs right now.
Andrew Bailey is not even CLOSE to the move the Cubs should be looking at
by Ryno G on Dec 21, 2011 5:39 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Sign George Bailey
"Just shut up and play" - Matt Garza
"Pain is inevitable, suffering is an option." - Dale Sveum
by RiskyBusiness on Dec 21, 2011 7:00 PM CST up reply actions
Sign Bailey Quarters.
There are 108 beads in a Catholic rosary and there are 108 stitches in a baseball. Who says baseball isn't a religion? (Now #8452 in the Cubs Season Ticket Wait List...)
Andrew Bailey = Uber Expensive
Effective closers cost a kings ransom and are WAY over valued. This is a great trade, we now have a starter we control for 5 years for close to the price Seans salary next year. Travis is young, cheap, and has some great upside to him. I’ve been waiting for a move like this since we hired Jedstein.
In Theo we Trust my friends.
~Ronald Reagan has held the two most demeaning jobs in the country; President of the United States and radio broadcaster for the Chicago Cubs~ George F. Will
Good point
We might disagree on how valued closers are. After going through Dempster and Marmol blowing saves I’d have to say that having some to effectively close games is a very important piece to a winning team. Perhaps not at what someone like Bailey might be asked for though.
We're building a rotation folks... you should applaud this move.
We get a LH starter who’s under cost control through 2017. Start looking beyond 2012…
"You win because of the quarterback. We have to get that position stabilized. We're fixated on that." -- Jerry Angelo (12.30.2008)
Jerry Angelo trades for Jay Cutler! (4.2.2009)
And this does actually make the team better for 2012....
THEO!
by wrigleyrocker12 on Dec 21, 2011 5:30 PM CST up reply actions
That too.
But the big picture is: Dempster and Z aren’t going to be here much longer. And there’s not much help down on the farm.
"You win because of the quarterback. We have to get that position stabilized. We're fixated on that." -- Jerry Angelo (12.30.2008)
Jerry Angelo trades for Jay Cutler! (4.2.2009)
Can we sign the entire Phillies' rotation?
;-)
Author at Acme Packing Company, SB Nation's Green Bay Packers blog.
Sign Prince Fielder!
State high point count: 4/50
If you are grouchy, irritable, or just plain mean, there will be a $10 charge for putting up with you.
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Dec 21, 2011 5:35 PM CST up reply actions
We could sign 1/5th of it.
"[The Cubs] have a very famous tradition in baseball, and it will be nice to be part of turning it around." ~ Jamie Quirk, Bench Coach
I'll sign off on this
if either prospect has a shot of being at least flipped for something of value.
10-25-2011. Theo Epstein joins the Cubs. Now, the fun begins.
What's the use?
The world ends in 2012, remember?
/sarcasm
I'm sad to see Marshall go.
He was one of my favorite players. I’d like to wish him luck, but since he’s going to the Reds that doesn’t seem like a good idea. Ah, what the hec…it’s the holiday season…I’ll wish him luck. Sounds from what you guys are saying that this is a good deal. Hope you are right.
♪ He held me very tight under stars so bright and whispered darlin' "Who do you love tonight?" I told him "baseball, baseball...." ♫
I trust Theo et al
to properly evaluate talent.
10-25-2011. Theo Epstein joins the Cubs. Now, the fun begins.
i'm guessing by the fact that nothing has been said about the prospects coming with wood
that they aren’t that good
They haven't been named
as they haven’t passed their physicals
10-25-2011. Theo Epstein joins the Cubs. Now, the fun begins.
Billy Hamilton passed his, but he was soo fast, nobody saw him do it.
"You win because of the quarterback. We have to get that position stabilized. We're fixated on that." -- Jerry Angelo (12.30.2008)
Jerry Angelo trades for Jay Cutler! (4.2.2009)
Did he overslide second
on a walk? #Onedec
10-25-2011. Theo Epstein joins the Cubs. Now, the fun begins.
They will be the difference between
it being an ‘interesting gamble’ a ‘nice trade’ or a ‘flat-out heist’.
10-25-2011. Theo Epstein joins the Cubs. Now, the fun begins.
Wood's
minor league numbers suggest a guy that could be a solid middle of the rotation starter. http://www.baseball-reference.com/minors/player.cgi?id=wood—001tra
I wish I knew whether we had a pitching coach that is going to be able to develop guys like this and get the most out of them.
But not his stuff
which is consistently around 89 mph. His control is solid but not spectacular. He’s also a fly ball pitcher, which isn’t good for someone with that kind of stuff.
by Josh Timmers on Dec 21, 2011 6:13 PM CST up reply actions
He's got a solid cutter
and a great change, and seems to vary his speed well. Plus I think I’ve read he can get up to mid-90s, he just usually sits at 90.
Just found a little mini-scouting report on
Wood from Cubsfx:
http://www.cubsfx.com/2010/08/back-to-back-against-travis-wood-and.html
It’s from 2010.
if only he could be like ted lilly
sigh :)
The Stat Pack
by shoemile on Oct 21, 2011 10:10 PM CDT
by Madison Cub Fan on Dec 21, 2011 7:06 PM CST up reply actions
How fast can he throw his glove down?
There are 108 beads in a Catholic rosary and there are 108 stitches in a baseball. Who says baseball isn't a religion? (Now #8452 in the Cubs Season Ticket Wait List...)
Speed is over rated. Based on your assessment Greg Maddux' stuff was not good.
A 100 MPH straight fastball is going over the wall more than an 89 MPH one with location and movement. Plus how effectively you change speeds is also important.
Don't like it
Unless the 2 minor leaguers are really great, which is prob unlikely this is a trade that makes the team worse. I know the off season is still a work in progress, but they aren’t even going to be able to go with the old line of ‘wanting to play meaningful games in September’ in 2012, they are basically throwing in the towel.
I was hoping they would make some moves that would make the team better
Now I guess I know thats not the goal
Define better
My interests are more 2013 and beyond than 3rd place in 2012
10-25-2011. Theo Epstein joins the Cubs. Now, the fun begins.
Anything? There is no part of the team that doesn't need improving
So far we have no improvement….I’m willing to be patient hoping for the best.
David DeJesus is paid
a low cost for his value.
If Travis Wood is effective, he will be, also.
Theo et al place a high value on good contracts. He hasn’t made a bad move along those lines yet.
10-25-2011. Theo Epstein joins the Cubs. Now, the fun begins.
Which improves the team.
2010-11 High cost, no upside, low wins, no plan for the future.
2012 Lower cost (still Sori, and Z), some upside, probable low wins, plan for the future.
Why?
You really care about those extra few wins this year? They’re not going to win the division, so who cares if they lose 80 games versus 90 games? I’d rather lose 90 games with moves being made that have an eye on long term, consistent contention versus short term wins and marginal improvement that do nothing to enhance the team’s championship goals.
throwing in the towel?
Two or three wins in 2011 are less important than building a foundation of winning.
Marshall would be too expensive for his role very soon. He’s good, yeah. But relievers are relievers.
10-25-2011. Theo Epstein joins the Cubs. Now, the fun begins.
reply fail
to jeff
10-25-2011. Theo Epstein joins the Cubs. Now, the fun begins.
Not just the Marshall trade
The whole offseason isn’t making the team any better, but maybe thats not their intention. Maybe a long term strategy will pay off, but as for 2012 we’re looking at a pretty bad team.
Watching you go from defending every move the Hendry front office made
to being down on every move the Theo/Jed front office has made has been an interesting experience
by Nunyabidness on Dec 22, 2011 8:56 AM CST up reply actions 5 recs
I was kind of hoping they'd go in for 2012 when the CBA was announced
Darvish, Fielder and another piece.
But, I’ll trust their judgement. If not going in big for next year is necessary to dump Soriano and Zambrano, maybe that’s a better strategy for the long term.
Step Two: Develop an organizational plan
by Shanghai Badger on Dec 22, 2011 9:12 AM CST up reply actions
Overpaying for a veteran
would make you feel warm and fuzzy inside?
10-25-2011. Theo Epstein joins the Cubs. Now, the fun begins.
I'd take Fielder YES
He makes the Brewers weaker and he doesn’t go to the Cardinals, its a strategic move in the division. But I can also see if he asking for a 10 year contract we’ve already made that mistake.
I don't see Theo going over seven years.
Theo is a wise shopper. He’ll buy almost anything at the grocery, but only if it’s below his price point.
10-25-2011. Theo Epstein joins the Cubs. Now, the fun begins.
why would Prince wont to join a reclamation project anyway?
Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.
for a ten year deal on his terms
he’d consider joining a convent.
10-25-2011. Theo Epstein joins the Cubs. Now, the fun begins.
and step one
is not to overpay on Prince Fielder
10-25-2011. Theo Epstein joins the Cubs. Now, the fun begins.
Actually Theo has a lousy record buying free agents
"We gotta circle the bandwagons." - Devin Hester
by Jose's Eyelid on Dec 22, 2011 8:29 AM CST up reply actions
we are getting a redo for 2011?
Chronologically inept since 2060
Q: Why did Chuck Norris cross the road?
A: Ditka
Ditka's mustache can kill two stones with one bird
It is better to spend money like there's no tomorrow than to spend tonight like there's no money! - Irish toast.
I'm guessing the manager will be better
No cutsy nicknames cubbie timmy
plus I think come trade deadline there will be some deals done. Not a good year, but at least not as hopeless
The Stat Pack
by shoemile on Oct 21, 2011 10:10 PM CDT
by Madison Cub Fan on Dec 21, 2011 7:10 PM CST up reply actions
I have posted a poll on the right sidebar on the front page...
… about this deal. Please vote.
Join us for complete MLB coverage at SB Nation's Baseball Nation
Waiting until I see
who the prospects are.
10-25-2011. Theo Epstein joins the Cubs. Now, the fun begins.
My guess is if they were good, they would be announced.
THEO!
by wrigleyrocker12 on Dec 21, 2011 6:46 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
Has to wait until Marshall passes his physical.
Which won’t be until tomorrow.
Join us for complete MLB coverage at SB Nation's Baseball Nation
Honestly, Al
I think it’s too early to evaluate it. I’d like to see what the next move or two is. If it’s the first step in a total rebuild and 2015/2016 is the earliest that TheoJed thinks it will be before the Cubs will compete, then I think it could be a good deal. Otherwise, I’m kinda of scratching my head as to what this accomplishes.
by jerry morales rules on Dec 21, 2011 6:59 PM CST up reply actions
As A Twins And Cubs Fan
I’m perfectly fine with this deal. I mention my Twins fandom because in the past couple of years, my other team has twice made the mistake of trading assets for relief pitching and seen it backfire. Relievers are a lot easier to replace than starters (pitchers or position players), so if you get a good offer for a reliever who is anything other than elite (I like Marshall, but “elite” is not the word for him), you take it. Combine that with the salary relief and the fact that Wood is under team control for the next few years, the deal seems like a no-brainer.
by TheQatarian on Dec 21, 2011 6:50 PM CST reply actions 1 recs
A bit of a topic shift, but since you're a Twins fan...
Do you recall how you felt when the Twins traded Garza for DYoung? I recall reading some stories about Garza having a bit of an attitude problem when he was there and some folks were happy to see him go.
Accurate assessment at the time or overblown by the media?
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
from the same organization that said Pierzynski was a clubhouse cancer...
i’m guessing media overblow
Come visit me inside Wrigley along the Addison side mezzanine fence straight up from 1st base.
by section229beer on Dec 22, 2011 12:35 PM CST up reply actions
At the time...
I think the feeling was, “It’s about time we traded some of our wealth of pitching prospects to get some offense.” Terry Ryan had been criticized for not wanting to give up pitching prospects and being timid, and a lot of people thought that Bill Smith was finally doing something bold. Turned out he was just starting a bad pattern which got him fired this year.
As for Pierzynski, it was the Giants who thought he was a clubhouse cancer, not the Twins. He actually played nice while he was here. He was simply expendable because we had Mauer coming up, so we traded him for Nathan and Liriano (and the departed Boof Bonser). Highway robbery there.
by TheQatarian on Dec 23, 2011 12:04 PM CST up reply actions
would seem to make us worse and the Reds better next year...
which probably doesn’t mean much, other than increasing my my distress in the immediate future. may work out, may not. hope I live long enough to see it bear fruit…
I don't get how people can say it makes us WORSE
At the very least, it makes us exactly the same. Now we have a better starter than what we were throwing out there last year, and our bullpen is a bit weaker.
by Nunyabidness on Dec 21, 2011 7:25 PM CST up reply actions
eh
like many have said, Wood couldn’t crack a crappy Reds rotation. I don’t claim to know what he’ll do next year, not overly excited though…
but our crappy rotation last year was worse
The Stat Pack
by shoemile on Oct 21, 2011 10:10 PM CDT
by Madison Cub Fan on Dec 21, 2011 7:40 PM CST up reply actions
if I had to list my top 10 worries about the 2012 Cubs
The 8th inning guy won’t make the list.
Who cares if you have a great 8th inning guy if some of your your starters can’t go 5 full innings with out getting shelled.
So if I have choose between Marshall and having to not basically lose 20% of the games during the year b/c of college of pitchers.
The Stat Pack
by shoemile on Oct 21, 2011 10:10 PM CDT
by Madison Cub Fan on Dec 21, 2011 7:50 PM CST up reply actions 2 recs
plenty of ways to piss away ballgames...
I hope Wood pans out, I wouldn’t bet rent money on it. Either way we will suck next year, no one will be happier if Wood goes 15-6.
So you'd rather them not made the trade?
Who would you have in the starting rotation then?
The Stat Pack
by shoemile on Oct 21, 2011 10:10 PM CDT
by Madison Cub Fan on Dec 21, 2011 8:01 PM CST up reply actions
as things stand, I may have made that deal myself.
I’m just VERY disappointed in how things currently stand and don’t have a great deal of faith that Wood is a great asset going forward. As i said initially, it probably doesn’t make a bit of difference this year…
I guess we view 20 % of games differently then
Your right they are going to suck it’s just what level of suckitude
The Stat Pack
by shoemile on Oct 21, 2011 10:10 PM CDT
by Madison Cub Fan on Dec 21, 2011 8:08 PM CST up reply actions
I'd rather invest
that 120 million on a couple different players.
10-25-2011. Theo Epstein joins the Cubs. Now, the fun begins.
just really felt if we could have added him and Prince
we’d have something to build on. sign a couple of key pieces next year and proceed to kick ass.
and Pujols at third.
JRol at SS
10-25-2011. Theo Epstein joins the Cubs. Now, the fun begins.
Lind
10-25-2011. Theo Epstein joins the Cubs. Now, the fun begins.
but trade Bill Madlock
and pay Bobby Murcer more than Madlock wanted
10-25-2011. Theo Epstein joins the Cubs. Now, the fun begins.
Ontiveros was the key to that deal
"We gotta circle the bandwagons." - Devin Hester
by Jose's Eyelid on Dec 22, 2011 8:31 AM CST up reply actions
exactly....
Who cares if you have a great 8th inning guy if some of your your starters can’t go 5 full innings with out getting shelled.
"Well-behaved women seldom make History"---Laurel Thatcher Ulrich
by cooliogirl47 on Dec 21, 2011 10:24 PM CST up reply actions
He was 23 and he finished much stronger than he started
Also he WOULD have cracked our rotation. I think the Cubs are a bit worse than you realize.
by Nunyabidness on Dec 21, 2011 7:42 PM CST up reply actions
unpossible
is the appropriate term. Check your glossary.
j/k
10-25-2011. Theo Epstein joins the Cubs. Now, the fun begins.
#1 when Garza was on the shelf
"We gotta circle the bandwagons." - Devin Hester
by Jose's Eyelid on Dec 22, 2011 8:31 AM CST up reply actions
The ultimate question is whether
Travis Wood will be a starter on a contending team’s rotation—ever. He is probably better than the guys we had in the 5th spot last year, but that is a pretty meaningless distinction.
If Theo and Jed think he is better than last year’s numbers suggest, then great, I hope they are right.
The other factor is maximizing a player’s market value. Theo and Jed seem to think Wood has a bright future. But many, even with the Reds, don’t. Even if Theo is right and the “Wood haters” are wrong, he should still be getting a fair amount more for reliever of Marshall’s abilities. We don’t know who the prospects are, but if at least one of them is not a top 10 prospect, this trade was a failure. Based on what Mike Adams returned, he should be getting top 10 prospects back for Marshall.
by tomas21 on Dec 21, 2011 7:50 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
It doesnt make us worse
I just hope the other players are intended to fill the holes we have at the MLB level and not just crap stapled to the end of the bill.
Way, way OT question for computer people
I bought a laptop yesterday. Any suggestions on antivirus protection. I’ve always used Norton or Mcaffee (because it came with the computer) but it seems like they really slow the computer down, or maybe it’s just viruses they didn’t catch that slowed it down.
Either way, what should I get?
Get a Mac.
Fewer worries about viruses, malware, etc.
Author at Acme Packing Company, SB Nation's Green Bay Packers blog.
Sign Prince Fielder!
State high point count: 4/50
If you are grouchy, irritable, or just plain mean, there will be a $10 charge for putting up with you.
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Dec 21, 2011 8:08 PM CST up reply actions
2 questions
1. Where were you yesterday when I bought the computer?
2. Would you be willing to donate the 500-1000 bucks extra the macbook costs?
Answers:
1, I was in Vermont, and 2, sorry, I don’t have the money right now. I need to save up for my pre-medical school course in the spring semester.
Author at Acme Packing Company, SB Nation's Green Bay Packers blog.
Sign Prince Fielder!
State high point count: 4/50
If you are grouchy, irritable, or just plain mean, there will be a $10 charge for putting up with you.
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Dec 21, 2011 8:12 PM CST up reply actions
AVG and Malware bytes
Work for me, but I think user judgement is where the real work comes in on preventing viruses. Don’t click or download anything that seems fishy. Had one incident that Malware bytes cleaned up and that was my 8 year old using the computer.
AVG is what we have
It’s a free one. Works great. Boyfriend is software engineer so I trust what he puts on my laptop.
The Stat Pack
by shoemile on Oct 21, 2011 10:10 PM CDT
by Madison Cub Fan on Dec 21, 2011 8:11 PM CST up reply actions
nah... too easy... ;-)
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
by ballhawk on Dec 21, 2011 8:42 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
ROFL
Step Two: Develop an organizational plan
by Shanghai Badger on Dec 21, 2011 8:56 PM CST up reply actions
AVG user here too
It works. Occasional update annoyances but overall a good free antivirus program. Zone Alarm is worth it too, as is Malwarebytes. I have a home machine and a laptop for road use and have no malware trouble.
Different kind of deal than what they've done before
It’s a shame Marshall is traded. I fully understand the need for starting pitching. They do have to get more pitching on board than just T. Wood though.
Jim Hendry never would have made a trade like this. He just didn’t give up good players in order to fill a greater need. And to give one up to a division rival on top of it.
by AboutTheCubs on Dec 21, 2011 8:13 PM CST reply actions 1 recs
Woot on the JH comment
10-25-2011. Theo Epstein joins the Cubs. Now, the fun begins.
Jim Hendry never would have made a trade like this. He just didn’t give up good players in order to fill a greater need. And to give one up to a division rival on top of it.
hendry would refuse to let other teams make an offer for him, let him walk without offering arb, and then sign grabow
by jesus christos on Dec 21, 2011 8:17 PM CST up reply actions
Reds fans here
There’s a lot of upset Reds fans right now. Many don’t like the idea of trading 5 years of Travis Wood’s potential for probably just one year of Marshall’s excellence in the pen. I’m Ok with it, as I’ve always liked Marshall. It’s a good deal for the Reds, as they hope to make a serious run at the NL Central title, and it’s good for the Cubs, who are realistically rebuilding.
As for the minor leaguers, don’t expect anything special. Names I’ve seen bandied about (but I’m no insider). are Travis Webb (lefty double-A reliever) and some guy named Kevin Coddington, who I knew nothing about. He’s a catcher who went to Illinois-Chicago….44th round draft pick in ’08.
"There's only one god, and his name is Death. And what do we say to Death? Not today!" --- Syrio Forel, Game of Thrones
thanks for the input
and don’t take this the wrong way, but I REALLY hope it doesn’t work out for you!!
Thanks,
And also, thanks for letting me stop by briefly earlier today to talk about this trade.
Author at Acme Packing Company, SB Nation's Green Bay Packers blog.
Sign Prince Fielder!
State high point count: 4/50
If you are grouchy, irritable, or just plain mean, there will be a $10 charge for putting up with you.
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Dec 21, 2011 8:26 PM CST up reply actions
We appreciate input from rivals
10-25-2011. Theo Epstein joins the Cubs. Now, the fun begins.
I visited Red Reporter earlier tonight,
In an attempt to get some insight into what they thought about Travis Wood. From what I gathered, in responses to my comments, Wood has been just okay, outside of getting into a pitching duel with Roy Halladay last year.
Author at Acme Packing Company, SB Nation's Green Bay Packers blog.
Sign Prince Fielder!
State high point count: 4/50
If you are grouchy, irritable, or just plain mean, there will be a $10 charge for putting up with you.
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Dec 21, 2011 8:29 PM CST up reply actions
I think Wood's attitude is better than his stuff
He seem like a pretty solid competitor, and he works fast and agressively on the mound.
And he’s an excellent hitter as far as pitchers go. I’m kinda bummed the Reds are losing him as I think it’s a little early to give up on him. He was really, really solid in 2010 and took a step backwards last season.
"There's only one god, and his name is Death. And what do we say to Death? Not today!" --- Syrio Forel, Game of Thrones
by cesarhernandez on Dec 21, 2011 8:32 PM CST up reply actions
The Reds blog tends to be a bit
condescending toward Cubs fans. I appreciate intelligent input from anyone.
10-25-2011. Theo Epstein joins the Cubs. Now, the fun begins.
If that's the case, this deal wasn't worth it
One of those minor-league players needs to be someone ready to go right now, or right on the doorstep. Doesn’t sound like that was the case.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Dec 21, 2011 8:26 PM CST up reply actions
The funny thing
is a lot of Reds fans were not wanting to trade Wood for Marshall straight up. I thought that was more than fair, especially since Marshall is signed for only one year. I think Hoyer would have done it straight up, but I read somewhere else that the Cubs had a huge need for some organizational depth, so they probably held out for the minor leaguers.
"There's only one god, and his name is Death. And what do we say to Death? Not today!" --- Syrio Forel, Game of Thrones
by cesarhernandez on Dec 21, 2011 8:36 PM CST up reply actions
Take it with a grain of salt but...
#Cubs likely to get Daniel Corcino from #Reds along with Wood in the Marshall deal.
https://twitter.com/piodeportes1/status/149629965149798400
Not sure how credible the source is however. Would be a huge get, however. I’ll be highly upset if we’re getting the two players the Reds fans are throwing around.
If true, then I'm going to be sick
Corcino was great in Dayton this season…..He’s a Johnny Cueto clone.
"There's only one god, and his name is Death. And what do we say to Death? Not today!" --- Syrio Forel, Game of Thrones
by cesarhernandez on Dec 21, 2011 8:39 PM CST up reply actions
Seriously if Corcino goes to the Cubs with Travis Wood
Then that’s an absolute rape……the Reds blogs will be howling over that one. Like I said, a lot of fans didn’t even want the deal straight up, then said the two minor-leaguers better be basically nobodies.
Corcino is really good. He’s the Reds best pitching prospect and was rated No. 6 for 2012 by Baseball America…and he’s No. 4 now after the Alonso and Grandal trade.
"There's only one god, and his name is Death. And what do we say to Death? Not today!" --- Syrio Forel, Game of Thrones
by cesarhernandez on Dec 21, 2011 8:44 PM CST up reply actions
I feel your pain, but if that's true
Then I’ll feel much better about this deal.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Dec 21, 2011 8:48 PM CST up reply actions
If true
then you shouldn’t feel much better, you should be thrilled… Wood AND Corcino for a reliever (an excellent one, mind you) that the team would only have one non-contending season? Wow….if it’s Corcino, then ol Walt Jocketty has lost his mind.
"There's only one god, and his name is Death. And what do we say to Death? Not today!" --- Syrio Forel, Game of Thrones
by cesarhernandez on Dec 21, 2011 8:49 PM CST up reply actions
You don't know NBF that well, do you? :)
www.facebook.com/craighudak
by Craig in South Bend on Dec 21, 2011 11:06 PM CST up reply actions
It makes more sense
If the prospects are nothing of note.
by AboutTheCubs on Dec 21, 2011 8:57 PM CST up reply actions
Mike Adams trade comp
It is worth repeating that just a few months ago Hoyer traded a player similar to Marshall in Mike Adams. In that deal he brought back two solid prospects, with at least as much upside as Wood. If it is just Wood and two filler types, Hoyer will have gotten much less than he did as the Friars GM.
Eamus Ursuli!
by WGNstatic on Dec 21, 2011 9:09 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
Both trades would
be by Hoyer, trading an elite setup man with between 1 and 1.5 years team control to a contending team. You will not ever get a better comp than that when discussing potential trades. Never.
The Reds fans may hate losing Corcino and Wood for Marshall, but that would be a pretty comparable package to what Hoyer netted for Adams. It would be wierd for him to get two B/B+ rated starters for Mike Adams, and be satisfied with Wood (who baseball america doesn’t even view as a future 5th starter for the Reds) and two low leverl prospects for Marshall.
I’m not guaranteeing anything, but I would be pretty disappointed if he made a deal like that when he was in San Diego, and settled for a Jim Hendry-like return on Marshall.
This one would have a higher degree of difficulty rating
It’s December, and Jocketty had at least two months to fill that perceived need. The Rangers were two months away from the playoffs and believed they needed to make deal right then.
If you could find
a better comp in the history of baseball I’d love to hear it. Short of it involving the exact same players you won’t.
Full stats
http://www.baseball-reference.com/minors/player.cgi?id=corcin001dan
Excellent last year as a 20 year old in A ball. Before that he wasn’t successful, but he was super young. Based on that it looks like he has tremendous upside, but is a few years away and a lot could go wrong.
He and Wood would be appropriate return for Marshall, imo.
well, if their twitter profile can be believed, they seem pretty legit
by Nunyabidness on Dec 21, 2011 8:40 PM CST up reply actions
That would make the trade a lot better
Corcino is a solid prospect.
by Josh Timmers on Dec 21, 2011 8:43 PM CST up reply actions
Wood and Wood?
Does this mean when we sign kerry wood, they will have to put K. WOOD on the back of his uni?
Some teams do that, with initials.
Others just use the last name, when there are two players with identical last names on the team.
Can’t recall a situation where the Cubs had that, though, since they’ve had names on the back.
Join us for complete MLB coverage at SB Nation's Baseball Nation
Get a Couple more Wood's and resign Pena
Then are team will basically be Carlos’s and Wood’s.
...
Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.
by drewishdrewid on Dec 22, 2011 8:44 AM CST up reply actions
it may not matter as I doubt they'd ever both be in the game at the same time
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
Meh.
One of the last remaining Cubs I gave a damn about on or off the field. Obviously I need to stop doing that; it just makes life more difficult when they’re inevitably let go or traded.
I think the twitter guy who said Corcino may be full of it
He also said this:
Trying to confirm but I think Steve Ames is also in the #Cubs/#Reds deal
Which is funny, because Steve Ames is in the Dodgers organization….at Chattanoga
"There's only one god, and his name is Death. And what do we say to Death? Not today!" --- Syrio Forel, Game of Thrones
#SorianoForKershawStraightUp
j/k
10-25-2011. Theo Epstein joins the Cubs. Now, the fun begins.
Saw Webb missed a year
Tommy John surgery? He looks like he could be a guy who rides the shuttle between Iowa and Chicago, and has a good K rate as a lefty reliever. It wouldn’t surprise me if he’s the lesser of the two prospects in the deal. I would be surprised if the other is a catcher of no distinction.
Wood doesn't get me excited
But the timing to trade Marshall was right.
Have to see if the ML’ers are anything. Straight up, seems like we could have done better.
The sun is up. They sky is blue. It's beautiful, and so are you. Dear Prudence, won't you come out to play? ~Lennon & McCartney
by SouthWabashSoul on Dec 21, 2011 9:39 PM CST reply actions
Right now, I'm inclined to agree
Unless one of the prospects is a blue-chipper, this wasn’t a good deal for the Cubs. Except for the people who want to get rid of everybody except Castro (and why stop there?).
by Not Bruce Froemming on Dec 22, 2011 8:43 AM CST up reply actions
. Except for the people who want to get rid of everybody except Castro (and why stop there?).
we’re still waiting for you to specifically name someone who wants everybody but castro gone
by jesus christos on Dec 22, 2011 11:41 AM CST up reply actions
Alas, you're a group-thinking meatball
They’re there. It’s easy to find them.
Step Two: Develop an organizational plan
by Shanghai Badger on Dec 22, 2011 12:12 PM CST up reply actions
Welcome to BCB!
You must be new here. Let me tell you how this works:
Step 1: a reasonable BCB makes a statement about a player they would consider trading IF the return is right.
Step 2: a poster named NBF takes that as an opportunity to insult the community here and make sweeping statements about the stupidity of the opinions of posters here. His generalizations don’t include any statements ever made by a poster here, and are usually straw man arguments designed to allow him to defend his opinion against an imaginary foe.
Step 3: posters here take turns explaining tO NBF the difference between what the community has said and the words NBF put in their mouth.
Step 4: NBF ignores the posts in step 3, then repeats step 2 elsewhere in the thread.
Step 5: repeat step 3.
by tomas21 on Dec 22, 2011 12:18 PM CST up reply actions 6 recs
You forgot a few things
Step 6a: NBF makes a personal attack
Step 6b: Plays the victim
Step Two: Develop an organizational plan
by Shanghai Badger on Dec 22, 2011 12:27 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Please tell me why giving up one year of a good reliever, in a year where we probably won't contend
for a possible number three starter is a bad deal. And it’s not like it’s a far away prospect, it’s a guy who has had ML success at a young age and is only going to be 25 years old in 2012.
The guy you know>>>the guy you don't know
10-25-2011. Theo Epstein joins the Cubs. Now, the fun begins.
Keith Law said
He’s not hearing Corcino going to the Cubs, but the two names he did hear are “not zeros” and that Cub fans should be happy.
Hmm, well I'd consider Travis Webb "not a zero"
As for the other one, who knows….Coddington is probably a zero….maybe Kris Negron?
"There's only one god, and his name is Death. And what do we say to Death? Not today!" --- Syrio Forel, Game of Thrones
by cesarhernandez on Dec 21, 2011 10:17 PM CST up reply actions
Webb's 27
He’s not a zero, but he doesn’t make me happy.
Negron is a zero.
We’ll probably find out tomorrow.
by Josh Timmers on Dec 21, 2011 10:31 PM CST up reply actions
Negron probably is a zero
but Theo Epstein DID draft him in 2006….maybe he has a soft spot for him…:)
"There's only one god, and his name is Death. And what do we say to Death? Not today!" --- Syrio Forel, Game of Thrones
by cesarhernandez on Dec 21, 2011 10:44 PM CST up reply actions
No! Not Bruce!
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
by ballhawk on Dec 21, 2011 10:34 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Mixed feelings about this trade
I trust that Theo & Jed are making the right move, dealing Sean when his value is highest before he becomes a free agent.
But I like Sean not only for his play and professionalism, but like me he’s also from the Richmond, VA area. I first saw him pitch in 2000 when he was a senior in high school, and later on at VCU.
Haven’t seen this mentioned elsewhere, but the Red Sox drafted Brian Marshall – Sean’s twin brother – in the 5th round of the 2003 draft. That was Theo’s first with Boston. Brian had recurring shoulder problems that would eventually end his pro career.
One thing worth noting
The new CBA kills the value of guys like Marshall. Teams don’t get draft compensation for losing relief pitchers. If the Cubs had held onto Marshall at the deadline and a deal fell through, they’d get nothing for him.
On the flip side, the Cubs can re-sign Marshall next offseason without having to give up any draft picks.
This isn't what was explained to me?
From my understanding… any player of any position who is an impending free agent falls under these guidelines:
If a player is on the opening day roster for a team, and remains with that team for the entire season… the team may offer him arbitration. If the player declines arbitration, he becomes a free agent and the team may receive s compensation pick if it is determined the player is of that value.
If a player is traded to another team mid-season, the receiving team will not have the opportunity for any draft compensation for that player if he leaves via free agency.
Is this correct?
"You win because of the quarterback. We have to get that position stabilized. We're fixated on that." -- Jerry Angelo (12.30.2008)
Jerry Angelo trades for Jay Cutler! (4.2.2009)
I'm trying to find the specific language...
I think you’re basically correct, but there were some weird parts of the new CBA that specifically addressed relief pitchers and how draft compensation affected them. My initial understanding was that relief pitchers did not merit draft pick compensation…but the language may be a bit different than that.
by Outshined_One on Dec 21, 2011 11:13 PM CST up reply actions
Here we go
Starting with the 2012-2013 off-season, the entire Elias-Type A-Type B ranking system has been scrapped. Instead, teams that offer a contract with an annual average value of more than $12.4 million to a free agent from their team will receive a first-round draft pick as compensation if that free agent signs elsewhere. The $12.4 million figure is the average salary of the 125 highest-paid players in the league. That figure will rise yearly as salaries rise. A team that finishes in the bottom 15 in the majors cannot lose a first-round draft pick.
Type A and B rankings will remain in place for the current off-season, but certain players not considered “top” Type As will be reclassified as Type Bs — mostly relief pitchers. In addition, teams signing Type A relief pitchers will not forfeit draft picks, but the teams that lose the Type A relievers will receive a compensatory pick. This provision is not retroactive. As a result, the Philadelphia Phillies will forfeit a draft pick to the Boston Red Sox in compensation for signing closer Jonathan Papelbon. On the other hand, if the Red Sox sign another Type A reliever to replace Papelbon, the Red Sox will not forfeit a pick.
So, basically, for the Reds to get draft pick compensation for Marshall, they’d have to offer him a contract worth roughly $12.5m a year and Marshall would have to reject it. A team that subsequently signs Marshall will not have to forfeit their first round draft pick, but the Reds would receive one.
by Outshined_One on Dec 21, 2011 11:20 PM CST up reply actions
Thank you for the link.
It helps explain it further, however it did not cover the detail of players on the opening day roster vs players acquired in mid-season. I had read yesterday somewhere that the compensation would be different under those circumstances, but I’m not sure if what I read was correct info.
"You win because of the quarterback. We have to get that position stabilized. We're fixated on that." -- Jerry Angelo (12.30.2008)
Jerry Angelo trades for Jay Cutler! (4.2.2009)
mid season
A player needs to be with his team for a full season in order for his team to receive compensation.
So, if the Reds offer Marshall arbitration, they would be entitled to compensation picks if he leaves.
If the trade falls through now, but the Cubs traded Marshall in July, no team could receive compensation.
Eamus Ursuli!
That's what I thought....
Which in this case, would increase the trade value of Marshall prior to opening day. Once opening day is here, his trade value decreases somewhat, because no comp picks could possibly be awarded to a team who trades for him.
This extra value could net us a better prospect.
"You win because of the quarterback. We have to get that position stabilized. We're fixated on that." -- Jerry Angelo (12.30.2008)
Jerry Angelo trades for Jay Cutler! (4.2.2009)
Which they won't do
No way Sean Marshall gets a 12.5 annual contract unless Jim Hendry is somehow involved.
" Tell me something Steve, How does a guy from Puerto Rico lose a ball in the Sun? "
~$12M for 1 year of Marshall
I am not sure that is really all that out of line with what he might have received under the previous/current system.
He would go to an arbiter listing comps such as Francisco Rodriguez and Rafael Soriano, i.e. elite level bullpen guys, who, while serving as set up men could certainly be top tier closers. Those two will both be getting north of $10M this season. My point is simply that in the current system, Marshall could reasonably bring in $10M or so in arbitration.
Please note, I am not saying that the Cubs or any team should pay that much for a set up man, or any reliever for that matter. My point is simply that, I am not sure that the new CBA will really have that much of an impact on whether Marshall would accept arbitration or not.
Eamus Ursuli!
Keep in mind that the two you referenced were already closers with high salaries
They aren’t going to get significant pay cuts through arbitration.
Step Two: Develop an organizational plan
by Shanghai Badger on Dec 22, 2011 9:14 AM CST up reply actions
Hey! Read Me!
I don’t work in baseball at all, but I’m mad about Sean Marshall!
This is the first (WTF) move in my humble opinion. If this is not a swing move, who has info on the other guys we get in this trade?
Buster Olney is reporting
That it appears as if everybody in on Prince is waiting for the price to go down. Things are going to get interesting.
THEO!
by wrigleyrocker12 on Dec 21, 2011 11:27 PM CST reply actions
That is interesting indeed. I wondered why this is taking so long...but they all seem to
take longer than usual when it’s a high-end target. And when Boras is involved.
"Hey Hey, Holy mackerel, no doubt about it,!"
by scottsdalecubs on Dec 22, 2011 8:49 AM CST up reply actions
If true (BIG "if" given Olney's reliability), that would make this an interesting time to step in with fewer years and big $/year
Wonder what 6/$168M with an option year or two would do?
One year of Marshall for six years of Wood.
How could they not have made this trade?
I’ll miss Marshall but Russell should fill in OK. I worry more about Russell’s replacement.
Cubs turned a luxury for a 70 win team (2 really good LH relievers) for a much needed boost to the starting pitching.
Have to break some eggs to make an omlet.
"I'd rather hit home runs you don't have to run as hard." -- Dave Kingman
by BucknerKongCardenal on Dec 22, 2011 12:05 AM CST reply actions
The constant "one year of Marshall" refrain isn't true
Why wouldn’t/couldn’t they sign Marshall after his contract is up? It’s not like the Cubs are a small-market team that has to dump salary.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Dec 22, 2011 8:45 AM CST up reply actions
think of it this way
it’s one CONTROLLED year of Marshall for six CONTROLLED years of Wood. After this season, Marshall’s price goes way up, but we’ll have a cost controlled 3 or 4 starter on the team for six more years.
Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.
by drewishdrewid on Dec 22, 2011 8:55 AM CST up reply actions
See, now I know you aren't paying attention
It’s not like the Cubs are a small-market team that has to dump salary.
1) Why couldn’t the Cubs resign Marshall as a free agent after this season?
2) While the team isn’t a small market team, they have certainly demonstrated that they aren’t the Yankees when it comes to spending. The team has had to shed payroll before in order to make additions. The Dero trade was basically made to make room in the budget for Bradley.
by Nunyabidness on Dec 22, 2011 9:00 AM CST up reply actions
they still can
follow me on twitter for fantasy sports analysis @http://twitter.com/DrewDinkmeyer or get the full analysis at www.fantistics.com
by DartmouthCubsFan on Dec 22, 2011 9:01 AM CST up reply actions
They can still sign Marshall if the price/years are right
Free agents are, well, free. The economics are the same if he plays for the Cubs in 2012 or somebody else.
that brings up the question of why they would resign him
by jesus christos on Dec 22, 2011 2:18 PM CST up reply actions
Well if they have money to spend and the pen struggles without him.
But yea, we have a lot of decent pen arms and I think Beliveau is gonna eventually be a stud set-up man.
i'm not a fan of paying relievers a lot of money
the rays and dbacks have shown that a good pen can be put together cheaply if you get the right pieces
Happy end of the fiscal fourth quarter to all!
by jesus christos on Dec 22, 2011 10:15 PM CST up reply actions
Ketih Law tweets about the two propects
He says it won’t be Corcino, but
keithlaw
Not one of the names I heard. RT @timothyjwyant: @keithlaw no way Jocketty included Corcino in Marshall trade, right?
keithlaw
I think so. They’re not zeroes. RT @jonf1220: @keithlaw will cubs fans be happy with either of the two prospects?
On the Reds site,
they’re playing ‘guess the Prospects’.
I won’t link, as it is “unsuitable for younger or more sensitive viewers.” There ya go.
10-25-2011. Theo Epstein joins the Cubs. Now, the fun begins.
Apropos of nothing
here is some interesting info about USA high-denomination bills
Join us for complete MLB coverage at SB Nation's Baseball Nation
It's amazing how some people are confused by the $2 bill
Step Two: Develop an organizational plan
by Shanghai Badger on Dec 22, 2011 9:18 AM CST up reply actions
I use a $2 bill for luck at Cubs games
I told a favorite beer vendor to send me back $2 and that’s what I got – a $2 bill.
"Just shut up and play" - Matt Garza
"Pain is inevitable, suffering is an option." - Dale Sveum
by RiskyBusiness on Dec 22, 2011 9:33 AM CST up reply actions
Wow - that's unusual for a vendor to have one
Does the good luck work? I’ll bring a few next year….
Step Two: Develop an organizational plan
by Shanghai Badger on Dec 22, 2011 9:37 AM CST up reply actions
I think I got the first one in 1998
It’s been passed around my friends and probably given to one guy as part of a wedding gift. I’m sure we used that luck up
When I find $2 bills I check which Fed bank they are from. I realized I had Atlanta bills and that won’t do.
I just found a Federal Reserve Bank of Chicago $2 bill. But the year 2003. Bad luck or due for a comeback? Hmmm.
"Just shut up and play" - Matt Garza
"Pain is inevitable, suffering is an option." - Dale Sveum
by RiskyBusiness on Dec 22, 2011 9:45 AM CST up reply actions
The 2003A series is the last one printed, they stopped in 2006.
More than you ever wanted to know on this topic
Join us for complete MLB coverage at SB Nation's Baseball Nation
Still legal tender
Not that many know it. Every now and then you hear about the person being arrested for “trying to pass” a $2 bill at some place. Sometimes even the cops are oblivious to it and make the arrest. One would think that would be a part of their training, in the category of these calls are crazy or nonsense and should be dismissed.
$2 bills are printed so rarely because they are used so rarely.
by ddoubleheader on Dec 23, 2011 2:21 AM CST up reply actions
Not terribly unusual for vendors...
I get 10-20 a year, though usually for purchases and not tips.
Along with $1 coins, I’ll put ’em straight in my pocket and give them out later to my favorite service industry folks.
Come visit me inside Wrigley along the Addison side mezzanine fence straight up from 1st base.
by section229beer on Dec 22, 2011 1:08 PM CST up reply actions
Yes, he was AMAZING!!!!
Step Two: Develop an organizational plan
by Shanghai Badger on Dec 22, 2011 11:25 AM CST up reply actions
If you're interested in Money
Check out the Money Museum at the FederalReserve Bank of Chicago.
"Just shut up and play" - Matt Garza
"Pain is inevitable, suffering is an option." - Dale Sveum
by RiskyBusiness on Dec 22, 2011 9:37 AM CST up reply actions
That looks cool.
I’ll have to check that out sometime. The price is right, too.
Join us for complete MLB coverage at SB Nation's Baseball Nation
Why I am meh on Wood.
I am holding out judgement on this trade since, obviously, we don’t yet know who half of the players involved are.
That said, I am pretty meh on Travis Wood. Let me be clear, 5 years of Wood vs. 1 year of Marshall is most likely a good swap in terms of “value”, as say measured by WAR and then turned into monopoly money. I get that. The part that is bugging me is the Travis Wood is pretty much replaceable. The Cubs could likely bring in a comparable pitcher, at a relatively affordable price, on the free agent market in any given year. This year, Maholm is a good example.
Would signing Maholm cost more? you bet. But you know what? The Cubs are a major market team, they should be able to afford to spend $5-6M/year on a back of the rotation FA starter.
I am not saying I am opposed to trading Marshall, in fact, just a couple of days ago I posted the reasoning to either move Marshall to the rotation or trade him.
I would however have liked to see the team bring in somebody with more upside. That would likely be a lower level prospect with more uncertainty, sure. But I would far rather see the team bring in a A or AA prospect who just might turn into a front of the rotation starter, than a left-handed Randy Wells.
Eamus Ursuli!
good comments
agreed on all counts.
The sun is up. They sky is blue. It's beautiful, and so are you. Dear Prudence, won't you come out to play? ~Lennon & McCartney
by SouthWabashSoul on Dec 22, 2011 9:05 AM CST up reply actions
This is why......
People don’t get it and aren’t GMs. Why spend on Maholm and Marshall (after this year) which would cost the Cubs $15M or more per year when you can get a comparable in Wood, can use Russell in the Marshall role (where he has been effective-and we have other options if he’s not), gain a few prospects, and use that moneynto fill other holes? This is how you move towards being competitive. Don’t understand why people can’t understand this.
by jballgame on Dec 22, 2011 9:54 AM CST up reply actions 3 recs
you are completely missing my point
I am not opposed to trading Marshall, and I don’t think that a reliever is worth the large salary that he will command after next year.
That said, I would much rather the Cubs bring in some prospects who have more upside, even if they are riskier at lower levels, than bring in Wood.
Sure, Wood might be in our rotation for the next few years. But let me ask this, does he seem like someone who you can envision playing a major role on a championship team? To me, that answer is not really.
Eamus Ursuli!
It remains to be seen......
With regard to how Wood pans out, but he still costs millions less than Maholm. Maholm will likely cost more than 5-6M, and we don’t yet know who the prospects are yet. If we do what you suggest, we spend $7-8M more on payroll for Maholm per year (at least given Wood is c-c) and roll the dice on a high upside, lower level prospect who may/may not pan out-assuming the Reds would give one up…….
Yes,
Basically, I see the team as a club that can maintain a high payroll. Thus, the difference between a $1M and a $5M per year pitcher, to the Cubs, is less important than it is to most other teams. That, should be indisputable.
Let me pose my dismay in another way. The Cubs just made a very similar trade to the Mike Adams trade. The Padres accepted lower level prospects with more uncertainty, but higher upside for Adams. The Cubs just brought in a cheap player at the ML level.
Mind you, that Wood is no lock to be a success at the ML level. He was pretty bad last year, if he continues on that track he could easily be a non-tender candidate in a couple of years.
Eamus Ursuli!
Theo.
Probably. Likes. Travis Wood.
And he probably doesn’t care if you do or not.
10-25-2011. Theo Epstein joins the Cubs. Now, the fun begins.
Let's not make it personal
Obviously, if Theo and Jed are high on Wood, that is great. I don’t really have a problem with him. In fact, read my original post, I think he alone likely will “out value” Marshall. However, if the goal is to build up the ranks of the farm system and build for the future, I would rather bring in a lower level, higher ceiling prospect. If that means signing Malholm in the short term, fine, but, in a couple of years, you would have a younger guy come in, who could supplant Maholm and potentially have a higher ceiling than Wood.
Eamus Ursuli!
I think they found this the best deal.
It’s not like the Cards will offer Shelby Miller for a bridge reliever. I still want to see who the prospects are.
Not many patient Reds hitting prospects.
10-25-2011. Theo Epstein joins the Cubs. Now, the fun begins.
WGN, what do you consider the future?
Is 5 years not the future? If Wood is still here in 5 years as a 3-5 starter or a long reliever this is a great trade. If they flip him or the TBD throw ins it becomes a great trade. This is the exact type of trade that builds for the future, getting five years in exchange for one. You can’t compare the Adams trade, the Pads got more because it was a pennant race.
5 years
I will say it again, I am not disputing that Wood’s value over the next 5 years could easily surpass the one year of Marshall’s value. I am also not opposed to trading Marshall, not in the least.
My point is simply that I would have liked to see a prospect with more upside that Wood has.
Yes, Wood was good in 2010. He contributed to a division winner. Had the Cubs acquired him a year ago I would have had a very different opinion, because, he flopped in 2011.
If you want to focus on his success and diminish his struggles in 2011, let me ask you this… what is your opinion of Carlos Marmol’s value?
Eamus Ursuli!
Wood isn't the prospect.
The prospect will be named by midnight. Along with another guy.
10-25-2011. Theo Epstein joins the Cubs. Now, the fun begins.
"prospect"
I am using that term loosely. He is a young player who we hope will continue to improve.
Eamus Ursuli!
I don't think many teams
would give a functional starter and a Top 200 Prospect for Sean Marshall. Or two Top 300 types without a functional starter. I’m just not seeing it.
10-25-2011. Theo Epstein joins the Cubs. Now, the fun begins.
perhaps not
I am, as I have said before, simply basing my expectations on what the Hoyer acquired in July for Adams.
Eamus Ursuli!
Wood is a similar pitcher to Erlin.
So if the other two prospects add up to a Wieland, we’ve made out, haven’t we?
Carlos Marmol's value fluctuates with his weight.
It is much lower now than after 2010, but could still bring in some return, similar to Marshall. I also am warily ok if he is our closer next year.
I am not focused on 2010, I just answered if he could be a part of a championship team. I think he will be a 3-5 starter for a long time and I would rather have that than a top class A prospect. Just look at the past at the percentage of those that made it to the majors.
We are also restocking the minors, we got two minor league players too.
2 minor leaguers
Absolutely. This is also why I do not have an overall opinion of this deal yet.
Eamus Ursuli!
What if the $ difference between Wood and Maholm means Carlos Beltran in LF for a couple of years once Soriano is moved?
Add the $5M savings vs. Maholm (who sure isn’t Sandy Koufax) and $4M-$5M saved by shipping Soriano off and you are pretty close to that Beltrain is likely to get.
that seems quite unlikely
If it becomes clear that that is a cost savings move designed to free up money for another purchase, then this deal will be viewed entirely differently.
Eamus Ursuli!
Is that permitted?
10-25-2011. Theo Epstein joins the Cubs. Now, the fun begins.
yes, but once your hand leaves the player, no take-backs.
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
You're ignoring
The two prospects included as well as treating the $5M in a vacuum.
I think Theo et al
like Wood. If you think he won’t be very good, that’s fine. It sounds like Theo’s read on pitch data is that ‘he should be good’.
If you get a duplicate of the guy you’re giving up, plus two prospects, that’s a nice haul.
I think adding a SP was a goal of the braintrust. More a goal than a coinkidinke that a LSP that Theo liked was added. Other teams were probably asked. This was probably the best package available.
Of course, I’m guessing.
10-25-2011. Theo Epstein joins the Cubs. Now, the fun begins.
Does starting 17 games on a division champion team at the age of 23 qualify?
And we get his age 25-30 seasons. Was that a major role? Yes, they were all after July 1 so they were high leverage starts. The team was 9-8 in his starts that year and he lost two 1-0 games. And you want to take minor league players who the odds say will never get to the big leagues. I hate seeing Marshall go, but this is a good trade for both teams that could turn into a great trade for both teams.
Sure, Wood can be a starter on a championship team - Edwin (Middle of the Road) Jackson started for the 2011 Cards
He is not going to be one of the bell cow starters on a championship team, but they weren’t going to get that guy for a middle reliever. Someone needs to fill the 3-5 slots on the rotation on even the best teams. The 1-2 slots will come from internal resources (Garza or a prospect who has yet to be identified) or FA (Cain, Hamels).
This looks like a decent “build for the long term but don’t give up on 2012” move. Wood fills the black hole at the end of the rotation next year and is team controlled for long enough that he may be a piece in a contending team.
From the Cincinnati Enquirer
Update from John Fay: Marshall is scheduled to be in Cincinnati for a physical Thursday, according to a Reds’ source. Walt Jocketty did not return a phone call. He did say on Monday that the Reds were trying to trade for relievers and "potential closers."
Maybe they’ll annouce the trade around noon.
"Just shut up and play" - Matt Garza
"Pain is inevitable, suffering is an option." - Dale Sveum
Goodbye Marshall
I will always remember you from this completely insane game where you homered and then blew a three run lead by giving up a grand slam in the sixth. Still one of the craziest spectacles I’ve ever seen at Wrigley as the Cubs gave up TWO slams in that inning and allowed eleven runs on eight hits and two errors (both by Todd Walker!)
Johnny Knox is so fast he lives in the future
A Fangraphs writer wrote that the Cubs would be receiving
a B- and C- level prospects. If true we definitely came out on top of this deal.
Who does Fangraphs rate
as Reds B- prospects?
10-25-2011. Theo Epstein joins the Cubs. Now, the fun begins.
Brett over at Bleacher Nation thinks the reason the prospects haven't been named yet is because it is possibly dependent on an extension
He believes Cincy has been given a window to work on an extension and that we’d get better prospects back if he does agree to an extension. And if we get Corcino, I hope that we’re flipping him for Rizzo. He’s got great stuff, but I think he ends up in the pen. I’d rather keep McNutt than Corcino.
Just a theory
No names, and no certainty there. I merely tossed it out as a theory (which a Reds writer has also speculated).
Just want to make sure I don’t get burned at the stake for saying the extension thing was a certainty. It’s just a theory.
Bleacher Nation - Cubs Rumors and News
by Brett Taylor on Dec 22, 2011 5:43 PM CST up reply actions
Oh
Well … fine, torches. But please, no pitchforks.
Bleacher Nation - Cubs Rumors and News
by Brett Taylor on Dec 22, 2011 6:24 PM CST up reply actions
He's wrong
The prospects haven’t been named because Marshall took a while to get to Cincinnati to take his physical. They won’t announce it until Marshall passes his exam. He apparently got the Cincinnati this afternoon.
by Josh Timmers on Dec 23, 2011 12:20 AM CST up reply actions
Come on, now
I’m talking about why the names haven’t been reported (not “named”). The Gio Gonzalez prospects were reported IMMEDIATELY when the trade was reported. That’s how it usually happens – not three days after the trade is reported. You know this.
Bleacher Nation - Cubs Rumors and News
by Brett Taylor on Dec 23, 2011 5:26 AM CST up reply actions
cubs
sign habeus corpus
Mike Brown is the true definition of a businessman:
1.Build bare essentials to run business(PB Stadium)-✔
2.Hire cheap players-✔
3.When you suck don't give in to anyone's demands-✔
4. Change is a bad thing-✔
by RIP Slim on Dec 22, 2011 9:12 PM CST via Android app up reply actions
Keith Law tweets:Travis Wood, Dave Sappelt, and Ronald Torreyes
keithlaw keithlaw
Reds to receive Travis Wood, Dave Sappelt, and Ronald Torreyes from Cubs for Sean Marshall. Deal to be announced later today.
He corrected this shortly after
keithlaw keithlaw
Cubs to receive Travis Wood, Dave Sappelt, and Ronald Torreyes for Sean Marshall. Deal to be announced later today.
Just quickly reading through some scouting reports and numbers on Torreyes
the comparisons most are posting are to Jose Altuve. Ranked #12 in the Reds system after the Latos deal, looks like a pretty good get. In a 300 PA sample in the midwest league he posted an .855 OPS at just 18 years old. Looks like he’s been shooting up prospect lists of late
I’ve also always liked Sappelt. He’s a 4th OF but he takes pitches and makes consistent contact. Defensively he’s above average in a corner spot. He’s kind of like a poor-man’s Matt Murton. Given the OF glut we have I’m not sure how he fits in, but having depth with young cost-controlled players isn’t a bad problem to have.
follow me on twitter for fantasy sports analysis @http://twitter.com/DrewDinkmeyer or get the full analysis at www.fantistics.com
by DartmouthCubsFan on Dec 23, 2011 9:47 AM CST up reply actions
From what I've read on the prospects
Sappelt is a corner OF/4th fielder kinda guy (did we really need another?) and Torreyes is a 19 year-old 2B with a pretty good ceiling. He’s only played as high as single-A so far, but has done pretty well.
From a Reds Top-10 Prospect list:
7. Ronald Torreyes 09/02/92 2B H:5’9" W:140 – Signed out of Venezuela in 2010, Ronald Torreyes has done everything that the Reds could have hoped for since beginning his professional career. He was very young compared to his competition, but still has excellent numbers to show for it. Playing in single-A ball, he hit an outstanding .356 average in 278 at-bats. Very few hits were for extra bases so his swing has little power. However, he augmented his high contact rates with 12 steals and 53 runs scored. His glove work is quite good and looks to be above average for the major league level. Though his .356 batting-average is eye-popping, it is not accompanied by very many walks. With a paltry 14 free passes in 306 plate appearances, he relies on contact to get on base. He must improve his strike zone management or he becomes a one-dimensional player at the plate. This could be exacerbated as he faces more talented pitchers in higher levels of competition. Another detriment to Torreyes’ long-term future is his diminutive size. At 5’9" and 140 pounds, there aren’t many hugely successful major leaguers that share that same physique. That being said he is only 19 years old and one would expect more changes in his body type as he matures. Nevertheless, the contact rate just can’t be ignored.
Our Instinct: Anyone that can hit for a .356 batting average, demands to be monitored. One would expect Torreyes to start in High A ball, and time is needed to see how he develops his body and his game. Very intriguing set of skills.
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