Question: Rebuilding the Kansas City way... does it ever work?

by nickler on Dec 23, 2011 7:44 AM CST

Hi, there everybody! Happy holidays to you all.

As always, thanks in advance for your wisdom.

Having lived in KC for a while there was always a way in which Allard Baird would try to stock up on prospects. Although the team was never really in contention, he would gobble up mid-level free agents late in the game when they were getting desperate to find a team to play for. It clearly wouldn't put the team over the top and close to contention unless serious luck was involved (see Royals, circa 2003 season with Tony Pena).

In any event, I think his goal was to catch ligtning in a bottle with some of these free agents, hope they have a career or very good year, and have some tradeable assets available at the deadline so teams who felt they were close could give up prospects to help rebuild the team. This would include signings such as Juan Gonzalez, Tony Womack, Octavio Dotel, and the like.

Everything I am reading shows we aren't close to contention any time soon. Especially if we trade Garza this season is a wash. Do you think signing pitchers to one year or short term low-cost deals such as Oswalt, Corpas, perhaps Jackson or Maholm that won't hamstring us in the future is worthwhile simply because of the possibility of having trade pieces around? Or is it just a waste of money which should be saved for future years?

The best example I can give (I suppose) is the Indians signing Austin Kearns and then trading him for a pretty reasonable prospect, Zach McAllister, who is young, has done very well in the minors and who may well become a reliable #4 or #5 starter. In addition, although it took forever and a lot of pain, KC eventually reached a point where it had a very productive farm system after it had been barren for a long time.

Thank you in advance for your wisdom!

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So I guess the question is:

Since the Cubs are not in on the big, long-term free agents, should they be focusing on low risk one year deals like Oswalt, Corpas, and Jackson to:

1. Put something remotely presentable on the field
2. Have tradeable pieces in case they perform unexpectedly well and desperate teams are in need

Or does it make more sense to just hold onto the money and wait until next year, when the free agent pitching class is very strong?

by nickler on Dec 23, 2011 7:47 AM CST reply actions

Part of it is Baird

goes after Yuni after already knowing what he has done.

The ALC is takable. The person in charge has to be better at signing quality players for good contracts.

10-25-2011. Theo Epstein joins the Cubs. Now, the fun begins.

by timh815 on Dec 23, 2011 7:51 AM CST reply actions

Baird isn't KC GM any more.

Dayton Moore is.

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by Al Yellon on Dec 23, 2011 8:28 AM CST up reply actions

My mistake

Moore should have known better, though.

10-25-2011. Theo Epstein joins the Cubs. Now, the fun begins.

by timh815 on Dec 23, 2011 8:29 AM CST up reply actions

Agreed.

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by Al Yellon on Dec 23, 2011 9:31 AM CST up reply actions

I was referring to the Allard Baird period.

I was aware that Dayton Moore is the new GM. However, this is something that Baird did for years.

by nickler on Dec 23, 2011 10:07 AM CST up reply actions

Worked for Tampa. And Minnesota.

The problem is that KC missed the last step in the process – if one of your prospects turns out to be a true gem, you lock them down. Instead, they ditched Dye, Damon and Beltran for essentially no return.

If KC wanted to be an MLB team, they should have acted like one. they could have had a helluva $80mm team. I hope that they recognize their folly, and pay Hosmer when the time comes instead of shipping him out for 5 guys, hoping and dreaming that one of them turns into Eric Hosmer.

MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown

by D98 on Dec 23, 2011 9:17 AM CST reply actions

Great point

This is something that the Pirates have been guilty of in the past as well. And it is certainly NOT a step that Epstein/Hoyer will skip.

by bluekoolaide on Dec 23, 2011 10:07 AM CST up reply actions

It is what some Cub fans want to do.

Restock the farm system at the sacrifice of the major league team. That kind of thinking gets you consistent losing in my mind. After all, didn’t we have two minor league teams play for titles in our “poor” farm system last year? And I know the argument is that we don’t have high ceiling players in the system.

by jpeters407 on Dec 23, 2011 10:32 AM CST up reply actions

I think it's okay to do this (restock the farm system) as a phase every now and then if conditions merit it

but it needs to be done with a firm plan/approach/strategy in place so that it stays as only a phase and does not become a repetitive process.

Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."

by ballhawk on Dec 23, 2011 2:20 PM CST up reply actions 2 recs

That's a silly argument.

And I think you’ve missed the point.

D98 mistaken, a hyperbole as in a funny or revisionism as in trying to make a new fact to confirm a prejudice

by Kansas25 on Dec 23, 2011 4:42 PM CST up reply actions

Wrong.

Trade Hosmer. Now. To us. We’ll ship them Manny Corpas.

10-25-2011. Theo Epstein joins the Cubs. Now, the fun begins.

by timh815 on Dec 23, 2011 2:25 PM CST up reply actions

And Sonnanstine

by RynoRooter on Dec 28, 2011 3:15 PM CST up reply actions

2-for-one

Blakey makes 3.

10-25-2011. Theo Epstein joins the Cubs. Now, the fun begins.

by timh815 on Dec 28, 2011 3:28 PM CST up reply actions

The Royals are going to be pretty decent over the next few years.

Like, better than the Cubs.

"The riches of the game are in the thrills, not the money." --Ernie Banks

by dtpollitt on Dec 23, 2011 9:21 AM CST reply actions 2 recs

Which is why

if we have money to spend and do not want to lock ourselves into long term deals like Fielder or CJ Wilson, perhaps this is the right thing to do.

Low cost short term signings like Roy Oswalt, Ben Sheets, Orlando Hudson may give us a serviceable team to march out there and also give us the possibility of getting prospects at the trade deadline. We’re not winning it all this year anyhow.

I almost forgot to mention the very best example of this: Cleveland Indians trade Eduardo Perez for Asdrubal Cabrera. I almost still can’t believe that one.

by nickler on Dec 23, 2011 10:10 AM CST up reply actions

Don't Forget the Pirates

I think both the Royals and Pirates could be better than the Cubs in coming seasons. Maybe, younger players for the Cubs are going to have take their lumps before the Cubs get good again. I’m not looking for anything special for the Cubs before 2014.

Good things come to those who wait... and wait....and wait.

by memphiscub on Dec 24, 2011 9:55 AM CST up reply actions

OT: Taking my son to a clinic put on by Ben Zobrist today,

Zach MCallister is one of the instructors.

by jpeters407 on Dec 23, 2011 10:33 AM CST reply actions

You must be in the Peoria area

I read where Zobrist and his wife are going to be in town.

by Not Bruce Froemming on Dec 23, 2011 10:41 AM CST up reply actions

Sounds awesome!

Hope you guys have a blast!

by daily2b on Dec 23, 2011 11:06 AM CST via mobile up reply actions

While you are there

Ask them both to demand a trade to the Cubs.

"Stuff like this is why they should shut off the internet."

by Orval Overall on Dec 17, 2010 1:19 PM CST

by fsuapollo on Dec 23, 2011 12:02 PM CST via mobile up reply actions

Yep, just got back.

Great day for my kid, tried to get Zobrist and Mcallister for the Cubs but their agents were not there. Ben is a class act, got to chat with his dad for a while.

by jpeters407 on Dec 23, 2011 8:41 PM CST up reply actions

No, doing it the Allard Baird way

never works.

The sun is up. They sky is blue. It's beautiful, and so are you. Dear Prudence, won't you come out to play? ~Lennon & McCartney

by SouthWabashSoul on Dec 23, 2011 10:17 PM CST reply actions

I would suggest that the Nats are a better comp for the Cubs.

DC is a large, two team market. The Nats stockpiled draft choices, and often went over slot to sign them. They are looking to add veterans now that they are a respectable team.

A better blueprint for KC would be the Metrodome Twins. They had a fairly small payroll, so they drafted, developed, and let guys leave for free agency while replacing them with rookies.

IMO, Roy Oswalt would not do the Cubs much good. They should let the kids play, and they should get a couple of veteran role players to run the clubhouse. Someone like Jeff Francis could help the young pitchers (I’m assuming Garza will be traded), and Edgar Renteria or Omar Vizquel would be a great mentor for Castro, if they would accept the challenge.

Remember: John Smoltz and Tom Glavine still genuflect when someone mentions Charlie Liebrandt. He was a back-end guy at the end of his career, but he was a terrific mentor.

"I've never complained about it. I'm thankful to have a jersey." Mark DeRosa, 22 Aug 2007

by DeRoMyHero on Dec 25, 2011 9:24 AM CST reply actions

Why couldn't Oswalt be that guy?

Couldn’t he be the same mentor that Jeff Francis would be, and at better numbers? If he came at the right price for one or two years I say go for it.

by jpeters407 on Dec 28, 2011 7:47 PM CST up reply actions

Re-build the KC way, does it ever work?

Well, it hasn’t thus far and doesn’t appear to be in the near future.

I’d like to think of this more of re-building the BoSox way, does it ever work? Yes, twice in 4 years…! AND after 8+ decades of failure. Sound familiar? That last part, that is.

Just win the next game...!

by blackhawk24 on Dec 28, 2011 4:20 PM CST reply actions

The Royals are gonna be really good in a couple years.

by Dcr18 on Dec 28, 2011 4:59 PM CST up reply actions

I heard that in 2002

and 2003, and 2004, and 2005 ….

They should be pretty good, but wake me when they are.

by Not Bruce Froemming on Dec 28, 2011 7:29 PM CST up reply actions

They will compete this year, and start a run similar to the 70's and early 80's

in 2013. They may not win every year but they will compete. If they can somehow lock their core they could be among the best for the next 10-12 years.

by jpeters407 on Dec 28, 2011 7:49 PM CST up reply actions