Cubs Sign Andy Sonnanstine
In yet another "buy low" move, the Cubs have signed former Rays righthander Andy Sonnanstine to a non-guaranteed split contract -- i.e. he'll make more if he makes the major league team.
Sonnanstine looked promising in his first two seasons with the Rays, particularly in 2008 when he posted a 101 ERA+ and had an excellent walk ratio of 1.7 per nine innings and had two good starts for the Rays in the 2008 postseason. But he has regressed the last three years, was banished to the Rays' bullpen and spent much of 2011 at Triple-A Durham.
Sonnanstine will be 29 in March. He's a reclamation project, but at that age he's got a much better chance to be productive than the retreads (Doug Davis, Ramon Ortiz, Rodrigo Lopez) that Jim Hendry signed last year. Theo Epstein is certainly familiar with Sonnanstine because of their time together in the AL East; I'm all for signings like this. In fact, one pitcher like that who I'd really like to see the Cubs give a NRI to is Scott Kazmir. Maybe Kazmir is done, as some here said last year. But maybe the Cubs can reclaim him, too; he's lefthanded and just 28 years old next month.
The Cubs today also officially announced the signing of right-handed former Rockies reliever Manny Corpas to a similar, non-guaranteed split contract.
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At least we will have some vets in Spring Training?
10-25-2011. Theo Epstein joins the Cubs. Now, the fun begins.
When Theo said we were going to get pitching
depth I didn’t know we would go this far. Good signing, yes. Low risk, another change of scenery possible move. If we keep signing guys like this we might hit lightning in a bottle. At least our odds increase the more we sign!
We'll miss you Big Boy. #10 is going into the Hall of Fame!!
by mrcubsfan on Dec 26, 2011 4:47 PM CST via mobile reply actions
Don't get your hopes up with this guy.
He is truly awful. -1.0 WAR over the past 3 seasons. Walk rate has been in the 3s in that time when it was previously below 2. He needs to have amazing control to have even the smallest amount of success, and he doesn’t have it anymore. He also gives up a ton of HR, moreso away from the pitching friendly Trop, but even there he had issues. Good luck.
Am I the only one flagging this guy?
Seriously, do we have to wait for the money shot or a "F*** THE SOXXXXXX!" before we ban him? Doubleteapot… BAN HIM!!
by AlohaSox on Sep 28, 2011 10:20 PM CDT
by SandalsNoPants on Dec 26, 2011 5:07 PM CST up reply actions
He reminds me of Randy Wells
Came out of nowhere to pitch well one year. Has been below average ever since. Chances are he becomes the 6th or 7th man on the rotation depth chart.
Could end up as high as 4th or 5th though. So I don’t really see a downside?
" Tell me something Steve, How does a guy from Puerto Rico lose a ball in the Sun? "
Wells pitched well for two years.
"[The Cubs] have a very famous tradition in baseball, and it will be nice to be part of turning it around." ~ Jamie Quirk, Bench Coach
Wells 2009 and 2010
Are really close comps to Sonnanstine’s 2008 and 2010.
Especially when you take into account the difference in the NL Central vs. the AL East.
Either way its a low cost guy to compete for the #5 job with Wood and Wells……No Biggie
" Tell me something Steve, How does a guy from Puerto Rico lose a ball in the Sun? "
Do you mean Sonnanstine's 2007 and 2008?
Because their respective 2010’s weren’t even close in terms of overall value. Now that I’ve compared them a little more closely, I can see how they’re similar. But I’d still give Randy a lot more credit.
"[The Cubs] have a very famous tradition in baseball, and it will be nice to be part of turning it around." ~ Jamie Quirk, Bench Coach
Wells pitched adequately
if he is your 4th or 5th starter, fine, but that is his ceiling.
I always turn to the sports section first. The sports page records people's accomplishments; the front page has nothing but man's failures.
~Earl Warren
by lookingdeadred on Dec 29, 2011 7:51 AM CST up reply actions
Semantics, really.
I’d call two consecutive seasons of ~3 fWAR “pitching well,” but I also can’t argue that Randy is anything more than a fourth or fifth starter. I guess I just still feel a reflexive need to defend the guy.
"[The Cubs] have a very famous tradition in baseball, and it will be nice to be part of turning it around." ~ Jamie Quirk, Bench Coach
Samsonite???
Upps, I think I misread this one.
If the Cubs still have a chance, no matter how small, it’s still Go Cubs, damn the math and pass the KoolAid. I'm a Sheeple and proud of it!
Spelling and grammar errors are included for creative and artistic reasons.
I'm suggesting a NRI to spring training.
If he still sucks, you cut him, with virtually no cost.
If you can reclaim him, you might have something. It’s worth doing, IMO.
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Absolutely not
He’s done
Help bring Boys of Spring The Movie to life!
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1742828131/boys-of-spring-the-movie
Like I said
It’s a zero-risk proposition. Why would you NOT do it?
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Only if he's any good.
If he’s not, then he gets cut in spring training.
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Such as?
If you think signing a Scott Kazmir takes anything from anyone, you don’t know how spring training works.
--------------------------------
Just North of Wrigley Field
by jameslcrockett on Dec 27, 2011 2:36 PM CST up reply actions
kaz bet anyone
For every beginning to end scoreless inning he pitches I give you $50. For every inning he gives up a run you give me $10 but for every inning he gives up 2 or more runs you give me $100… Pray he is out of baseball before you go broke!
by Rev Halofan on Dec 27, 2011 1:10 AM CST via iPhone app up reply actions
There was once a lefthanded pitcher
… who had several good seasons, even pitching for his team in a World Series.
Then he got hurt and struggled through a few years. He barely pitched for a couple seasons.
Evidently, he was injured. He came back for another team and had five fine seasons and helped lead his new team to a World Series. He had been a power pitcher, but after the injury he came back and became more of a finesse guy.
I’m not saying Kazmir can do that. But he is not even 28 years old. Maybe he’s hurt and needs to rehab for a year. On a minor league deal, what is the risk?
Zero, IMO. And there’s the chance that he could recover and have good years in his 30s. Just because Angels fans are jaded at the poor performance he put in for them — and I know there were some attitude issues, too — doesn’t mean he can’t be a productive pitcher.
I hope Theo & Jed do it.
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I like the Jamie Moyer example even better.
It’s not over, ‘til it’s over.
--------------------------------
Just North of Wrigley Field
by jameslcrockett on Dec 27, 2011 2:37 PM CST up reply actions
Another really good example.
Although, Moyer never was a hard thrower like Kazmir or Simmons. Still, he reinvented himself after most thought he was done and might still pitch next year — 20 years later.
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But Moyer's hardly been good for nearly a decade, with very mixed results prior to that.
Just because he does keeps pitching doesn’t mean he should, or that he’s any good at it.
What could be better than Dan Johnson
hitting .108
Let's trade Reddick for Heyward!
by QW on Sep 28, 2011 9:47 PM CDT
by SandalsNoPants on Dec 27, 2011 3:55 PM CST up reply actions
What?
Go look at Moyer’s record. He’s been a perfectly serviceable inning eater for many years.
Plus, Kazmir is 28! Moyer at 28 still had a decade of being a good MLB starter ahead of him.
Join us for complete MLB coverage at SB Nation's Baseball Nation
Good success in Seattle
sandwiched between some less than desirable seasons.
One decent year in Philadelphia surrounded by crap.
If that’s what you’re looking for in a pitcher, have at it.
What could be better than Dan Johnson
hitting .108
Let's trade Reddick for Heyward!
by QW on Sep 28, 2011 9:47 PM CDT
by SandalsNoPants on Dec 27, 2011 5:43 PM CST up reply actions
Geeze, Al, did you have to pick a guy who resuscitated his career with the Cardinals?
Bad enough they have Duncan working that sort of thing now; to know it has worked for them for 50 years just rubs salt into the wound.
Thank the Angels for me for giving away Rodriguez and Torres!
What could be better than Dan Johnson
hitting .108
Let's trade Reddick for Heyward!
by QW on Sep 28, 2011 9:47 PM CDT
by SandalsNoPants on Dec 27, 2011 7:58 AM CST up reply actions
39 now on the 40 man
I’ll beat you to it. Some won’t be missed very much.
10-25-2011. Theo Epstein joins the Cubs. Now, the fun begins.
Do these guys get on the 40-man with split contracts?
Serious question. I’m not sure.
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Corpas is listed as per AZ Phil
Sonnanstine is not.
10-25-2011. Theo Epstein joins the Cubs. Now, the fun begins.
Both are listed on the current 40-man roster on the Cubs website.
So it appears the answer is “yes”.
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Somebody is leaving
before the New Year
10-25-2011. Theo Epstein joins the Cubs. Now, the fun begins.
No, there's still room.
One space. 39 players. Of course, Jessica’s not around. They might be able to sneak two more in while she’s not watching.
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I believe Reed Johnson will be taking that spot
Correct?
by Mulhollandmania on Dec 26, 2011 5:42 PM CST up reply actions
Yeah, probably so.
No official word of ReJo’s signing yet, but that would make sense.
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Bring back Fuld!
"Whenever one finds himself in the majority, it is time to step back and reflect," Mark Twain.
by WindisBlowingOut! on Dec 26, 2011 7:31 PM CST up reply actions
So Reed makes 40; What happens when Kerry is signed?
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
...

Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.
by drewishdrewid on Dec 26, 2011 9:59 PM CST up reply actions
What, no Roster-gate?!?
These guys are too organized.
"Just shut up and play" - Matt Garza
"Pain is inevitable, suffering is an option." - Dale Sveum
by RiskyBusiness on Dec 26, 2011 5:33 PM CST up reply actions
Hey, they're moves.
So I report them.
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by Al Yellon on Dec 26, 2011 4:52 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
If Sonnanstine locates
and has acceptable pop in Spring, a team that gets some injuries might offer a Lotto ticket for Sonnanstine. As unlikely as that is, Theo must know him from the ALE, so he might be a decent guy for Samardzija, Cashner, and Coleman to hang with.
If he can’t get out AA hitters, it was a cheap gamble.
10-25-2011. Theo Epstein joins the Cubs. Now, the fun begins.
by timh815 on Dec 26, 2011 4:57 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
I rather see the Cubs evaluating Sonnanstine now
then see them run through Ortiz, Rolo, or Doug Davis once the season starts.
by BVictor on Dec 26, 2011 5:39 PM CST reply actions 2 recs
Ditto
"You win because of the quarterback. We have to get that position stabilized. We're fixated on that." -- Jerry Angelo (12.30.2008)
Jerry Angelo trades for Jay Cutler! (4.2.2009)
That is what this signing is trying to avoid
No way Sonnanstine is planned for the top 5 in the rotation.
Cool...
Cubs are also rumored to be close to signing catcher Jason Jaramillo. So, an active day at work for TheoJed.
"You win because of the quarterback. We have to get that position stabilized. We're fixated on that." -- Jerry Angelo (12.30.2008)
Jerry Angelo trades for Jay Cutler! (4.2.2009)
Nothing exciting to me
Sorry, I understand we are in total re-build mode but this is the least interested I’ve ever been to a new baseball season. I know in a few years the team will get better but right now, this is not a roster I can see myself spending 162 games with…
Beats the (redacted)
out of a 2 year guaranteed deal for Aaron Miles. Baby steps.
10-25-2011. Theo Epstein joins the Cubs. Now, the fun begins.
by timh815 on Dec 26, 2011 5:44 PM CST up reply actions 4 recs
Or signing John Grabow, or avoiding arbitration with Koyie Hill, or signing the car jumper....
or finding the next Chad Fox and giving him his last, last chance.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Dec 26, 2011 5:56 PM CST up reply actions
I expect to follow the minors
more again this year. At least, steps are being taken to make the big club legit by 2013.
10-25-2011. Theo Epstein joins the Cubs. Now, the fun begins.
i have said the Cubs are gonna have to cut ticket prices
if the offseason continues like this, u just can’t charge the same prices the Angels, Red Sox and Philles do for what appears to be the roster the Cubs are gonna field. This is more and more looking like the 2011 Astos.
Well.
They have already set season ticket prices, and said that single game prices will be slightly higher. They won’t change at this late date.
What will happen in that case is much lower ticket sales.
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Al, they should announce a reduction
If the payroll comes in at about 100 million or so, single games don’t go on sale ‘till March 9th so there’s still plenty of time. I would really respect Ricketts if he says we miscalculated our offseason and we are reducing prices.
You just can’t charge Top 4 ticket prices if this is basically the roster, that’s criminal.
by MikeJW on Dec 26, 2011 8:26 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Then season ticket holders should get a reduction, too.
Our balances are due in two weeks (1/12).
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i totally agree
and I hope they are discussing this……
That's what I don't get
I’m behind Theo 100%. If he wants to build this way, I’m totally fine with it. But I just don’t see how you can charge people these astronomical prices, and expect them to pay, when he’s gonna be fielding a team that would be lucky to finish in fourth place (in a weak division no less). I mean, there isn’t even “If everything goes right…” hope at this point. This team is not going to be good.
Also, he better hope he hits on some of these players, because he’s really boxing himself in. When you pass on a young stud like Fielder, you better be sure that you can get someone within the next two years that can be as good, or better, because at some point they’re gonna need run producers. He’ll get time, but he’s gonna demolish the fanbase if he thinks he can turn us into the Royals for three straight years (which is why I’m a fan of signing Fielder if you can get him in a 6 or 7 year deal).
Right now, he pretty much has to trade Garza, because the way he’s doing things, he definitely won’t be here when this team’s Championship window opens. People like Byrd, and other veterans need to be gone as well.
Also, not sure if this has been brought up, but why couldn’t they offer some team Soriano, and say: “We’ll pay the ENTIRE contract, every cent, but you have to give us a very solid prospect”. Wouldn’t some team do that? They’d be getting decent production for essentially nothing, for three years. Meanwhile, us having Soriano on the field is a COMPLETE waste. He’s just taking time from players that REALLY need it. Idk, is that a stupid thing to consider? Would another team do that?
Recovering...
by Juiceboxjerry on Dec 27, 2011 7:11 AM CST up reply actions
Agreed on the composition
These “lightning in a bottle” moves are simply nonsense. I’m sorry but Stewart, DeJesus, Corpas, Sonnanstine….these are not the guys that are going to be around long enough for progress to be seen. These are merely warm bodies. There really is no such thing as “returning to form” for guys that really are either not very good to begin with or are far past their “best by” date. Stopgaps, duct tape, place holder…..call them what you want. To be honest, I would actually dread seeing some of these guys actually do well to even suggest paying any of them additional money in the future.
The rebuilding effort is going to take far longer than many believe. Far longer….
Ah, yes.
What would a day be without krummy12 stopping by to tell us how bad things are?
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He's not really wrong. Outside of the Wood trade, none of the guys TheoJed have picked up
are more than roster filler.
by Nunyabidness on Dec 27, 2011 1:51 PM CST up reply actions
Well if Stewart is healthy he's a solid 3B, and if Dejesus bounces back he's a decent starter.
Teams compete all the time with guys like these playing big parts, but they also need a couple big bats and multiple strong SP, which of course we don’t have.
Yeah, I'm really not one who buys the "hey if everything goes right........"
argument. It doesn’t hold much water with me. Maybe Stewart puts up good numbers, maybe he continues to be less than mediocre.
Maybe DeJesus bounces back, maybe he continues to be mediocre at best.
Either way, they’re still bridge type players, it is very unlikely they will be on the next Cubs team that makes a real run in the playoffs.
by Nunyabidness on Dec 27, 2011 4:02 PM CST up reply actions
Stewart might surprise you.
But maybe not. I’ve always liked DeJesus. I think DeJesus will have a fine DeJesus season, and he is more likely to succeed than Stewart, but if Stewart finally breaks out for real, he could be great.
What could be better than Dan Johnson
hitting .108
Let's trade Reddick for Heyward!
by QW on Sep 28, 2011 9:47 PM CDT
by SandalsNoPants on Dec 27, 2011 4:08 PM CST up reply actions
Yeah, but I don't think it would be a major shock to see those guys do well
Especially DeJesus.
It’s not like they haven’t had even remote success since 2008… like Sonnanstine.
What could be better than Dan Johnson
hitting .108
Let's trade Reddick for Heyward!
by QW on Sep 28, 2011 9:47 PM CDT
by SandalsNoPants on Dec 27, 2011 4:29 PM CST up reply actions
Right.
And I don’t think it’s a stretch to think Stewart could very well be at least serviceable, like his 2009-2010. That’s not an everything goes right scenario for Stewart, the everything goes right scenario is him playing up to his all-star ability. But I don’t think it’s a stretch to think he has a very real chance to at least be league average in 2012.
Adding roster filler for 2012 doesn't make 2013 worse.
If Hoyer were signing these guys to Hendry-esque contracts, I’d be concerned. I see no reason to be. There is only 1 poster on this board that expected the Cubs to contend in 2012 with the roster construed as it was on October 1.
Step Two: Develop an organizational plan
by Shanghai Badger on Dec 27, 2011 6:57 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Who was that, pray tell?
If you say it was me, you’re full of crap.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Dec 27, 2011 9:20 PM CST up reply actions
Yellon lol
What could be better than Dan Johnson
hitting .108
Let's trade Reddick for Heyward!
by QW on Sep 28, 2011 9:47 PM CDT
by SandalsNoPants on Dec 27, 2011 9:29 PM CST up reply actions
I don't think that applies to Al, either
But don’t let that get in the way of SB’s invalid point.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Dec 27, 2011 10:15 PM CST up reply actions
It doesn't get in the way of you picking a fight, either.
NBF: Internet Tough Guy.
Step Two: Develop an organizational plan
by Shanghai Badger on Dec 28, 2011 8:30 AM CST up reply actions
Help! I am being oppressed!
Whiner.
Step Two: Develop an organizational plan
by Shanghai Badger on Dec 27, 2011 9:37 PM CST up reply actions
You know, if you were definitive about anything other than: EVERYONE ELSE IS WRONG AND STUPID
Then maybe it would be easier to know what your actual opinion is.
by Nunyabidness on Dec 28, 2011 8:36 AM CST up reply actions
Yawn
Predictable Al. Tell me how I’m wrong here and perhaps I’ll restate. Until then, the pollyanna approach isn’t going to make the 2012 version of this club better. But have fun with it anyway.
What do you suggest they do for 2012? It's been a lost year for a while now.
Step Two: Develop an organizational plan
by Shanghai Badger on Dec 27, 2011 6:57 PM CST up reply actions
Wahh! Personal attack! Obsession! Agenda!
Ass.
Step Two: Develop an organizational plan
by Shanghai Badger on Dec 27, 2011 9:37 PM CST up reply actions 3 recs
If he's trying to prove that people on here will gripe about anything he says
and give him reactions, then he’s doing an excellent job. If you don’t like him, the best way to react is to not react at all. Ignore. It’s really easy to do, and it takes less work to do so than to type a silly response out just to show him that you don’t approve of what he’s posting.
What could be better than Dan Johnson
hitting .108
Let's trade Reddick for Heyward!
by QW on Sep 28, 2011 9:47 PM CDT
by SandalsNoPants on Dec 27, 2011 10:11 PM CST up reply actions
Well then maybe you already get it.
I don’t think Dcr18 got it.
If you like it, enjoy! haha
What could be better than Dan Johnson
hitting .108
Let's trade Reddick for Heyward!
by QW on Sep 28, 2011 9:47 PM CDT
by SandalsNoPants on Dec 27, 2011 10:24 PM CST up reply actions
rec'd
It’s much more fun to wind Bruce up and watch him go
by Nunyabidness on Dec 28, 2011 8:37 AM CST up reply actions
He keeps going... and going... and going... and going... and going...

Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
I keep my mouth closed when it comes to most of his garbage.
But c’mon, he’s obviously going out of his way to be an ass with comments like that, and you can only ignore so much while it continues to take up room on these threads. I’m seriously wondering what the purpose of attacking SB was in that situation.
If you're worried about that crap taking up room
the last thing you should do is respond. He’s not going to read it and see the error of his ways. It’s just going to take up more room with crap. You CAN ignore it, and if everyone ignored it instead of acting just as childish (SB), it would take up hardly any space at all.
Or you can handle it your way. I’ve dealt with crap like this before, and trust me, my life is much more peaceful now that I’ve learned to just ignore and not respond.
No one can control you but yourself.
What could be better than Dan Johnson
hitting .108
Let's trade Reddick for Heyward!
by QW on Sep 28, 2011 9:47 PM CDT
by SandalsNoPants on Dec 27, 2011 10:39 PM CST up reply actions
Fair enough, it may have been unwarranted.
I wish Al would do everyone a favor and get him out of here, but that usually doesn’t happen until the person goes completely off their rocker.
I ignore most of what he says
But he went out of his way to pick a fight. You’re probably right that I should have let it go.
Step Two: Develop an organizational plan
by Shanghai Badger on Dec 28, 2011 8:32 AM CST up reply actions
Baloney
Check how often you reply to one of my posts than the other way around.
You’re protesting a little too much, I think.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Dec 28, 2011 9:35 AM CST up reply actions
Agreed.
What could be better than Dan Johnson
hitting .108
Let's trade Reddick for Heyward!
by QW on Sep 28, 2011 9:47 PM CDT
by SandalsNoPants on Dec 28, 2011 9:48 AM CST up reply actions
You know, if you're going to insert yourself in an argument
You really should know the complete history first.
Regardless of what baseless claims NBF makes (and ask most people here — he makes a LOT of them), this latest one started by him taking offense to something I said to someone else.
You seem to be fairly level headed from what I’ve seen – but you’re wrong here.
Step Two: Develop an organizational plan
by Shanghai Badger on Dec 28, 2011 2:04 PM CST up reply actions
Didn't read past the header.
Don’t care to know the story. Just realize that you bring down this site with the immature responses as much as he does when he baits you. Good day.
What could be better than Dan Johnson
hitting .108
Let's trade Reddick for Heyward!
by QW on Sep 28, 2011 9:47 PM CDT
by SandalsNoPants on Dec 28, 2011 2:06 PM CST up reply actions
If you don't care to know the story
Then you really shouldn’t comment on it. Just realize that it can come across as a bit pompous, especially if you’re not willing to listen to someone else.
Good day.
Step Two: Develop an organizational plan
by Shanghai Badger on Dec 28, 2011 2:07 PM CST up reply actions 6 recs
what a whiny little person you are
I always turn to the sports section first. The sports page records people's accomplishments; the front page has nothing but man's failures.
~Earl Warren
by lookingdeadred on Dec 28, 2011 10:23 AM CST up reply actions
Don't hurt yourself flexing your e-muscles too hard
What could be better than Dan Johnson
hitting .108
Let's trade Reddick for Heyward!
by QW on Sep 28, 2011 9:47 PM CDT
by SandalsNoPants on Dec 28, 2011 10:45 AM CST up reply actions
SB commented to Krummy that 2012 is a lost season.
And you replied to him and called him a know it all. How is that not picking a fight?
Serenity now.
What could be better than Dan Johnson
hitting .108
Let's trade Reddick for Heyward!
by QW on Sep 28, 2011 9:47 PM CDT
by SandalsNoPants on Dec 28, 2011 9:48 AM CST up reply actions
I wasn't even replying to him; I was replying to someone else
But he’s “obsessed” with a handful of posters here. Alas. Pray tell. Methinks.
Step Two: Develop an organizational plan
by Shanghai Badger on Dec 28, 2011 8:31 AM CST up reply actions
Not sure if I agree
Seems they are shooting for players between the 26-30 years age group. If you look at Ian Stewards comparables at his age, some pretty decent players on the list. If he can even get close to Craig Nettles, man that would be great.
At this point, yes the add ons are not really to exciting. But again, just maybe if you can hit on one or two of them that can make a difference, it will be worth the risk.
by wild bill on Dec 27, 2011 1:03 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
I'm starting to wonder about this
I generally liked the Stewart and DeJesus deals. The Marshall deal concerned me, but once I saw who the prospects were, I was good with it.
Why these two signings? What, is Ricketts planning to take the payroll down to $60 million?
by Not Bruce Froemming on Dec 27, 2011 5:08 PM CST up reply actions
theo is trying to build depth
which is what good GMs do
Just wee-un.
by jesus christos on Dec 27, 2011 5:23 PM CST up reply actions
Deep and bad isn't much of a strategy
I’m not sure how this makes the Cubs any better.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Dec 27, 2011 5:51 PM CST up reply actions
would you prefer to see russell in the rotation again?
Just wee-un.
by jesus christos on Dec 27, 2011 5:57 PM CST up reply actions
Not sure Sonnanstine
is much of an improvement.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Dec 27, 2011 6:07 PM CST up reply actions
russell in the rotation is a black hole of suck
Just wee-un.
by jesus christos on Dec 27, 2011 6:09 PM CST up reply actions
'Black hole of suck'
I like the sound of that.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Dec 27, 2011 6:10 PM CST up reply actions
It was more than a "black hole of suck".
Russell had a 9.33 ERA in his five starts.
In all of Cubs history, only two pitchers who made that many starts in a season had a worse ERA as a starter:
Micah Bowie, 9.96 ERA in 11 starts in 1999
Steve Smyth, 10.13 ERA in 7 starts in 2002
So Russell ranks as the third-worst starter in the 135 years of Cubs history with that many starts in a season.
Leave him in the bullpen. And Andy Sonnanstine would be better than that.
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Sonnanstine had a 7.85 ERA as a starter in 4 starts in 2011.
What could be better than Dan Johnson
hitting .108
Let's trade Reddick for Heyward!
by QW on Sep 28, 2011 9:47 PM CDT
by SandalsNoPants on Dec 28, 2011 8:43 AM CST up reply actions
And his FIP was 9.84.
xFIP 5.95, though.
What could be better than Dan Johnson
hitting .108
Let's trade Reddick for Heyward!
by QW on Sep 28, 2011 9:47 PM CDT
by SandalsNoPants on Dec 28, 2011 8:45 AM CST up reply actions
Yeah, the argument Al really should have made
was to illustrate that Russell was really quite good out of the pen. Arguing that Sonnanstine is clearly a better starter is a bit of a lost cause
by Nunyabidness on Dec 28, 2011 8:45 AM CST up reply actions
Well, he was better, ERA-wise
but it doesn’t look optimistic, nor does it look like anything I’d want if I were a Cubs fan.
Russell was AWESOME as a reliever, whereas Sonner is just meh to crappy as one.
Furthermore, as a starter, Russell’s FIP and xFIP were 7.88 and 5.31, so there’s a good chance his and Sonner’s ERA are switched with each team’s defense.
So maybe Sonner isn’t an improvement at all.
Amazingly, it took longer to type this out than it did to discover this information.
What could be better than Dan Johnson
hitting .108
Let's trade Reddick for Heyward!
by QW on Sep 28, 2011 9:47 PM CDT
by SandalsNoPants on Dec 28, 2011 8:52 AM CST up reply actions
Maybe not for the rotation
But keeping Russell in a role that he’s been successful in is good for him.
Step Two: Develop an organizational plan
by Shanghai Badger on Dec 27, 2011 6:58 PM CST up reply actions
Sonnanstine is an option
a team needs 15 or 18 options, as many will be bad.
10-25-2011. Theo Epstein joins the Cubs. Now, the fun begins.
See, now I know I've gone down the rabbit hole
Because if Jim Hendry had made these signings, and someone had said EXACTLY what you just said, you would have been all over them with some platitude about how “that’s why they play the games.”
You would also add something like “it’s too early to make comments like this”
You’d then continue to say it, as the calendar turned to July.
It’s very interesting how you’ve given a man who has actually built a couple of world champions and perennial contenders, less rope than you did a man who built a couple of playoff teams, and a whole lot of teams that were flat horrible.
by Nunyabidness on Dec 27, 2011 8:48 PM CST up reply actions 3 recs
got to give him points for being consistent
Just wee-un.
by jesus christos on Dec 27, 2011 9:00 PM CST up reply actions
If you've gone down the rabbit hole,
please stay there.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Dec 27, 2011 9:19 PM CST up reply actions
sonnanstine knows how to liven a place up
tom should take notes
Just wee-un.
by jesus christos on Dec 27, 2011 9:38 PM CST up reply actions
Maybe he could get a job in the marketing department
Step Two: Develop an organizational plan
by Shanghai Badger on Dec 27, 2011 9:39 PM CST up reply actions
he already does marketing for louisville slugger
Just wee-un.
by jesus christos on Dec 27, 2011 9:40 PM CST up reply actions
ISWYDT
Step Two: Develop an organizational plan
by Shanghai Badger on Dec 27, 2011 9:41 PM CST up reply actions
I think that's been done before...
Step Two: Develop an organizational plan
by Shanghai Badger on Dec 27, 2011 9:41 PM CST up reply actions
Indeed.
Speaking of holes….
Step Two: Develop an organizational plan
by Shanghai Badger on Dec 27, 2011 9:38 PM CST up reply actions
I notice you don't actually argue the point.
Merely make another one of your “stop pointing out my inconsistencies” nonsensical posts
by Nunyabidness on Dec 28, 2011 8:34 AM CST up reply actions
Current system doesn't even have good depth/backups in Iowa
Which is where these two guys will go unless something goes wrong.
You realize both these guys are not guaranteed to make the team right?
And that both making the team is extremely unlikely? I doubt Theo and Jed are putting there hopes into these two. And no the payroll won’t be 60 million. In case you forgot, your boy Hendry has tied up OVER 60 million in salary to five mediocre players alone in 2012.
If having Soriano on the field is a "COMPLETE waste"...
…you have to ask yourself why would another team want him? I would imagine these other teams have players that really need the playing time just as the Cubs do. Also, why would they want to give up a “very solid prospect” in the process? Wouldn’t they be better served keeping that very solid prospect for themselves?
If the Cubs do manage to move Soriano, IMO the best they can hope for is a face-saving prospect, even with the Cubs paying most, if not all, of his contract. I think it’s just as likely they end up simply releasing him at some point.
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
You mean....
….like Jerry Hairston was in the Sosa deal? I recognize the reality of what you’re suggesting is more likely to happen than anything else, but I’d rather leave Soriano where he is than have to endure 20 AB’s by a Jerry Hairston-type….irrespective of his way outside the box 2011 playoff run.
I tend to agree. For better (ha!) or worse, we're stuck with Soriano...
…we might as well give him the same chance as anyone else we have to play. Not sure what his splits show, but perhaps he could be passable in a platoon situation.
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
He would be a complete waste to US
Another team that is in a different stage in their team building could definitely benefit from trading for him imo.
It’s just that with the type of team Theo is building (OBP, defense), Soriano offers none of those things. Plus we don’t need his production cause we’re not gonna win anyway. If we signed say, Fielder, and another good pitcher or something, I might change my tune, and say “keep him, and see if he can surprise us a little”.
I’m not usually a fan of just saying “Get rid of him” (for example, I’m not opposed to keeping Zambrano and trying to build up his value for the deadline if no one trades for him now), but in this particular situation, I think we’d benefit greatly simply by not having Soriano around.
You don’t think some team (maybe an AL team that could DH him) would give up a pretty good prospect for Soriano at NO cost for 3 years? (Again, I don’t know, but I’m just curious if anyone else thinks it’s possible)
Recovering...
by Juiceboxjerry on Dec 27, 2011 8:45 AM CST up reply actions
No I don't
I think most teams, even those in the AL, already have someone in their system (or they pick up someone at the end-of-spring-training-roster-reduction clearance sale), that can come reasonably close to putting up Soriano numbers for the next three years.
Note – I said “reasonably close” since I suppose there’s always a chance Soriano could experience some sort of renaissance and put up some decent numbers. But I still don’t think that delta would be worth giving a “very solid” or even a “pretty good” prospect.
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
Fair enough
I’m kinda doubtful as well, just curious what other people thought of the possibility. Still think we need to find a way to get him off this team though. Somehow.
Recovering...
by Juiceboxjerry on Dec 27, 2011 9:16 AM CST up reply actions
Also, I can't envision any stage in the team building process where giving up a solid prospect for Soriano will benefit them
Any team that is a perennial contender has no need for Soriano. Any team on the cusp of contending looking for that last key piece isn’t going to risk what remaining baseball capital they have on the likes of a Soriano. And any team on the way up is going through their own rebuilding process (like the Cubs) and would most likely not want to give up their prospects for somebody like Soriano.
Having said all that though, somehow I can almost see a trade happening with the Rays. Never underestimate the ability of Joe Madden to spin gold from straw…
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
I like this signing
if he can turn into a nice #3-#5 starter by midseason, it could turn into a nice haul at the trade deadline
You can be whatever you want to be, just put your mind to it and work hard! -Dad
I like it also,
but Sonnanstine as a 3? Scary. Very scary.
10-25-2011. Theo Epstein joins the Cubs. Now, the fun begins.
Yeahhhhhh, I like your profile pic and all...
…but that’s not gonna happen.
"[The Cubs] have a very famous tradition in baseball, and it will be nice to be part of turning it around." ~ Jamie Quirk, Bench Coach
haha
What could be better than Dan Johnson
hitting .108
Let's trade Reddick for Heyward!
by QW on Sep 28, 2011 9:47 PM CDT
by SandalsNoPants on Dec 28, 2011 2:22 PM CST up reply actions
Maybe he has
Rich Hill syndrome, and just needs to get out of the AL East
You can be whatever you want to be, just put your mind to it and work hard! -Dad
Signings like this
underscore just how bad Theo & Jed regard our MiLB pitching.
I'm wet nurse to a last-place, dead-to-the-neck-up ball club, and I'm choking to death!
by Eisman57 on Dec 26, 2011 6:20 PM CST reply actions 1 recs
What in the Jay Jackson
are you talking about?
10-25-2011. Theo Epstein joins the Cubs. Now, the fun begins.
Gotta begin somewhere.
It’s conceivable this guy had pretty ok talent (2008), and maybe it can be mined again. Cheap look.
"Hey Hey, Holy mackerel, no doubt about it,!"
by scottsdalecubs on Dec 26, 2011 6:46 PM CST up reply actions
They are right.
Pitching in this organization is dreadful. Get some reclamation projects, see if they work. If not, no loss. At least it’s trying something rather than over pay for some middle reliever from the Indians or Blue Jays or whoever and stick them in a spot they are made for.
by rbarnold2626 on Dec 26, 2011 6:52 PM CST up reply actions 4 recs
Agreed.
This is why it would be zero risk to give a NRI to Scott Kazmir.
If he still sucks, you cut him. But if he’s good — well then, you might have gotten a solid lefthander at low cost.
Join us for complete MLB coverage at SB Nation's Baseball Nation
Can we please stop referring to this as a reclamation project?
Sonnanstine was NEVER good to begin with so there is nothing to reclaim.
Guys, hitting is not about muscle. It's simple physics. Calculate the velocity, v, in relation to the trajectory, t, in which g, gravity, of course remains a constant.... It's not complicated. - George Costanza
by troutfishin on Dec 26, 2011 7:06 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
1.3 WHIP in 2008
Looks good (back then) to me.
10-25-2011. Theo Epstein joins the Cubs. Now, the fun begins.
So let me get this straight, you're calling this a reclamation project because...
…he had 1 season where he was on the southern side of mediocrity. Sorry, there isn’t anything to reclaim here.
Guys, hitting is not about muscle. It's simple physics. Calculate the velocity, v, in relation to the trajectory, t, in which g, gravity, of course remains a constant.... It's not complicated. - George Costanza
At the 2008 level of performance
… he would be a perfectly good fifth starter.
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Your talking about 1 year which was extremely mediocre
His mean is a 1.40 whip, with a career 5+ ERA. He’s not qualified to be on any teams starting rotation.
Guys, hitting is not about muscle. It's simple physics. Calculate the velocity, v, in relation to the trajectory, t, in which g, gravity, of course remains a constant.... It's not complicated. - George Costanza
As of now, yes.
That’s why he’s a reclamation project. You could have said the same thing about Rodrigo Lopez and Ramon Ortiz last year. At least at his age, it’s possible that Sonnanstine could improve.
If not, he’ll spend the year at Iowa.
Join us for complete MLB coverage at SB Nation's Baseball Nation
by Al Yellon on Dec 26, 2011 8:27 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
That would be good for the Cubs, but a 1.29 WHIP isn't anything great.
2008 was a good WHIP year for the Cubs, too, on that note. They had a 1.294 WHIP as a team that season.
Since then, it’s been 1.325, 1.402, and most recently 1.408. So I guess if you’re comparing his “good” 2008 season, the Cubs would love to have a guy who allows so few baserunners. Unfortunately, Sonny’s WHIP has climbed like the Cubs’s since then.
What could be better than Dan Johnson
hitting .108
Let's trade Reddick for Heyward!
by QW on Sep 28, 2011 9:47 PM CDT
by SandalsNoPants on Dec 26, 2011 7:35 PM CST up reply actions
have some respect for the world's first breathing pitching machine
Just wee-un.
by jesus christos on Dec 26, 2011 7:17 PM CST up reply actions
Maybe they signed him to pitch batting practice
I hope it’s just not to the other team.
Guys, hitting is not about muscle. It's simple physics. Calculate the velocity, v, in relation to the trajectory, t, in which g, gravity, of course remains a constant.... It's not complicated. - George Costanza
You know who really likes Andy Sonnanstine?
Anyone swinging a baseball bat.
Guys, hitting is not about muscle. It's simple physics. Calculate the velocity, v, in relation to the trajectory, t, in which g, gravity, of course remains a constant.... It's not complicated. - George Costanza
by troutfishin on Dec 26, 2011 6:44 PM CST reply actions 4 recs
What exactly is a non-guaranteed split contract?
I did a quick google search and couldn’t come across a good definition.
by Naveen Nallappa on Dec 26, 2011 7:07 PM CST via iPhone app reply actions
He makes one amount if sent to the minors
He makes a larger amount if on the big league roster.
10-25-2011. Theo Epstein joins the Cubs. Now, the fun begins.
Just wondering....
Do I like the signing of Manny Corpas??
If he's bad, you cut him
If he’s okay, yo keep him.
If he pitches well, you flip him.
What’s not to like?
10-25-2011. Theo Epstein joins the Cubs. Now, the fun begins.
I find it ironic
that “deadcatbounce” wondered about the signing of a “Corpas”.
Join us for complete MLB coverage at SB Nation's Baseball Nation
the Corpas era has begun!!!
a career whip of 1.336, and that’s only because of a good year in 2007. Man, this is some kind of signing.
I'm going to the 2012 Randy Hundley Fantasy Camp!!! Who's with me?
by VegasCubFan on Dec 26, 2011 11:04 PM CST up reply actions
Yes, you do.
You also like giving me one million dollars.
"[The Cubs] have a very famous tradition in baseball, and it will be nice to be part of turning it around." ~ Jamie Quirk, Bench Coach
Man. This is exciting
I really like the way Theo operates and I like this signing a lot. Like someone said above…. baby steps.
Go Bulls! It's time to get #7.
Like the signing - he's another asset.
I love these kinds of signings because they’re low-risk and high-reward. If Sonnanstine regains his form, we could either trade him at the deadline or sign him for another year or two. If he doesn’t, he pitches in the minors for a year, and we move on.
Here’s a quick blurb that I wrote on Sonnanstine a few days ago. He’s one of the non-tenders that I found intriguing.
Sonnanstine pitched well in 2008 on the strength of his command – 1.72 BB/9 – and his cutter – 1.59 wCT/C. Unfortunately, Sonnanstine has lost both his command and his cutter’s effectiveness since that season. He has thrown cutters at a much higher rate in recent years at the expense of his fastball and slider. This seems to have affected his cutter’s effectiveness, which has gradually decreased since 2008, to a career-low -1.78 wCT/C in 2011. Fortunately, Sonnanstine will only be 29 at the start of next year, so he does have a few years to figure things out. A switch from the AL East to the National League, as well as a change in pitch frequencies, may help Sonnanstine regain his form.
by Naveen Nallappa on Dec 26, 2011 8:39 PM CST reply actions 1 recs
He has no fastball
It tops out in the mid-80’s at it’s best.
yeeeeep
http://www.fangraphs.com/pitchfxo.aspx?playerid=7667&position=P&pitch=FC
What could be better than Dan Johnson
hitting .108
Let's trade Reddick for Heyward!
by QW on Sep 28, 2011 9:47 PM CDT
by SandalsNoPants on Dec 27, 2011 8:03 AM CST up reply actions
He had a slightly above-average fastball in 2007.
His wFB/C in 2007 was 0.61, and his fastball was in the mid-80’s back then. It comes down to his ability to locate. If he can get back to locating his pitches well, he could be the 2.0 to 3.0+ WAR pitcher that he was in 2007 and 2008.
by Naveen Nallappa on Dec 27, 2011 10:35 AM CST up reply actions
Dude, that's 5 seasons ago.
What could be better than Dan Johnson
hitting .108
Let's trade Reddick for Heyward!
by QW on Sep 28, 2011 9:47 PM CDT
by SandalsNoPants on Dec 27, 2011 11:13 AM CST up reply actions
So?
If he were 35… kind of like Rodrigo Lopez… I’d agree with you.
But he is 29. Still a chance he can get back to that level.
Join us for complete MLB coverage at SB Nation's Baseball Nation
29: too old for lahair but young enough for sonnanstine
Just wee-un.
by jesus christos on Dec 27, 2011 11:57 AM CST up reply actions 3 recs
Seriously, you don't see the difference?
Join us for complete MLB coverage at SB Nation's Baseball Nation
i see two 29 year olds who aren't good at the sport of baseball
Just wee-un.
by jesus christos on Dec 27, 2011 12:26 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
I see...
… a 29 year old pitcher who has had success in the major leagues, including pitching for a World Series team, and a 29 year old hitter who spent six years in Triple-A with one trial in MLB that didn’t go very well, before finally getting a September callup.
Now do you see the difference?
Join us for complete MLB coverage at SB Nation's Baseball Nation
I am guessing jc still doesn't see the difference
claiming (as jc does) that there is no difference between Sonnastine, a player who was had some success as a starting pitcher on a playoff team, and LaHair, who has yet to have a noteworthy season in the bigs, is ridiculous.
I always turn to the sports section first. The sports page records people's accomplishments; the front page has nothing but man's failures.
~Earl Warren
by lookingdeadred on Dec 27, 2011 1:41 PM CST up reply actions
there comes a point where one's (relative) past successes
are overtaken by getting worse every year. neither lahair or sonnanstine are likely to be successful in the future; lahair because he’s a AAAA guy and sonnanstine because he’s lost whatever made him an ok 5th starter in 2008
Just wee-un.
by jesus christos on Dec 27, 2011 2:20 PM CST up reply actions
The difference being
one (Sonnanstine) has shown he can be a big league player while another (LaHair) has not.
True, neither 29 y/o looks like a winner now, but if you had to pick one who is more likely to contribute, the guy who has done it before would seem to be the smarter bet.
I always turn to the sports section first. The sports page records people's accomplishments; the front page has nothing but man's failures.
~Earl Warren
by lookingdeadred on Dec 27, 2011 3:08 PM CST up reply actions
I totally disagree.
Look at their most recent numbers. I think that would be more indicative of who might contribute more. Just because Sonnanstine had one better than absolute crap season, it doesn’t mean he is more likely than LaHair to succeed in the majors at this point.
If you look at recent performances, you can easily see that Sonny is currently a failure at the majors, and he’s not much better in AAA, whereas LaHair was pretty good in his short time in the majors in 2011 and has CRUSHED AAA most recently.
If something that happened 4 years ago is the only way you can justify Sonny over LaHair, then it’s probably not that strong of an argument.
What could be better than Dan Johnson
hitting .108
Let's trade Reddick for Heyward!
by QW on Sep 28, 2011 9:47 PM CDT
by SandalsNoPants on Dec 27, 2011 3:33 PM CST up reply actions
FYI
nicknames that end in “y” “ie” or “s” are strictly prohibited while here in BCB
Just wee-un.
by jesus christos on Dec 27, 2011 10:21 PM CST up reply actions
Whoops.
Rays nickname. I’ll change it to Sonner from BCB.
What could be better than Dan Johnson
hitting .108
Let's trade Reddick for Heyward!
by QW on Sep 28, 2011 9:47 PM CDT
by SandalsNoPants on Dec 27, 2011 10:26 PM CST up reply actions
still too quade-ish for my tastes
but it will have to do
Just wee-un.
by jesus christos on Dec 27, 2011 10:36 PM CST up reply actions
Sun 'N Shine?
What could be better than Dan Johnson
hitting .108
Let's trade Reddick for Heyward!
by QW on Sep 28, 2011 9:47 PM CDT
by SandalsNoPants on Dec 27, 2011 10:40 PM CST up reply actions
that's too childish
even for quade
Just wee-un.
by jesus christos on Dec 27, 2011 10:50 PM CST up reply actions
cassie was a stroke of pure genius
Just wee-un.
by jesus christos on Dec 27, 2011 11:04 PM CST up reply actions
"Sonnan the Barbarian"
Look – he’s even right-handed…

Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
Shiny ends with a "y"
Sonny was already shot down.
What could be better than Dan Johnson
hitting .108
Let's trade Reddick for Heyward!
by QW on Sep 28, 2011 9:47 PM CDT
by SandalsNoPants on Dec 28, 2011 8:46 AM CST up reply actions
If you want to believe in a guy who has never had a quality season in the big leagues
is a better “prospect” than a guy who actually had a good season in the bigs, that’s your right. Bottom line, the odds are against both them amounting to much.
I always turn to the sports section first. The sports page records people's accomplishments; the front page has nothing but man's failures.
~Earl Warren
by lookingdeadred on Dec 28, 2011 9:20 AM CST up reply actions
Sonnanstine never had a "good" season.
Unless you consider average “good.”
What could be better than Dan Johnson
hitting .108
Let's trade Reddick for Heyward!
by QW on Sep 28, 2011 9:47 PM CDT
by SandalsNoPants on Dec 28, 2011 9:50 AM CST up reply actions
One average season still puts him ahead of LaHair
I always turn to the sports section first. The sports page records people's accomplishments; the front page has nothing but man's failures.
~Earl Warren
by lookingdeadred on Dec 28, 2011 10:23 AM CST up reply actions
Okay I agree Sonnanstine has had more success in his career so far
but that success is so long ago at this point that it shouldn’t be indicating to anyone that he’ll have MORE success than LaHair in the future.
What could be better than Dan Johnson
hitting .108
Let's trade Reddick for Heyward!
by QW on Sep 28, 2011 9:47 PM CDT
by SandalsNoPants on Dec 28, 2011 10:49 AM CST up reply actions
Ok, imagine this scenario - tie game, late innings, men on second and third.
Sonnanstine is on the mound and LaHair is at the plate.
Which one would you rather see in a Cubs uniform?
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
If I'm a Cubs fan, LaHair.
If I’m a fan of the opposing team, I’m praying to see Sonny.
What could be better than Dan Johnson
hitting .108
Let's trade Reddick for Heyward!
by QW on Sep 28, 2011 9:47 PM CDT
by SandalsNoPants on Dec 27, 2011 3:56 PM CST up reply actions
for you, yeah, but that's not really fair for the rest of us...
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
The pitcher since he usually wins the battle
I always turn to the sports section first. The sports page records people's accomplishments; the front page has nothing but man's failures.
~Earl Warren
by lookingdeadred on Dec 28, 2011 9:21 AM CST up reply actions
Blind hope right here.
What could be better than Dan Johnson
hitting .108
Let's trade Reddick for Heyward!
by QW on Sep 28, 2011 9:47 PM CDT
by SandalsNoPants on Dec 28, 2011 9:52 AM CST up reply actions
Nope, just basic knowledge of baseball
pitchers usually win the battle as anyone who follows baseball would now, so why don’t you know that?
I always turn to the sports section first. The sports page records people's accomplishments; the front page has nothing but man's failures.
~Earl Warren
by lookingdeadred on Dec 28, 2011 10:24 AM CST up reply actions
Dude, 5 years is 5 years.
He hasn’t been good in 4 years. The control just isn’t there anymore, and he seems to have completely lost the ability to strike batters out, even in AAA. He’s no longer effective, and he wasn’t very effective when he was “good.”
I see you mentioned Kazmir earlier, who is probably also done, but at least with Kazmir, he was actually great at one point. Sonnanstine’s best was barely average, in 2008, when his ERA+ was 101, the only season that number was above 88. That’s not a good pitcher, and the likeliness he is ever THAT “good” again is almost nil, as he’s done nothing but get worse since that season.
What could be better than Dan Johnson
hitting .108
Let's trade Reddick for Heyward!
by QW on Sep 28, 2011 9:47 PM CDT
by SandalsNoPants on Dec 27, 2011 1:07 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
It's still a low-risk signing.
Split contract. If he sucks, you are paying him a minor league salary to be in Triple-A.
Maybe the Cubs can “fix” what’s wrong with him. Probably not, but this is worth a flyer.
Join us for complete MLB coverage at SB Nation's Baseball Nation
Totally low risk
but there is really no reason to be optimistic.
What could be better than Dan Johnson
hitting .108
Let's trade Reddick for Heyward!
by QW on Sep 28, 2011 9:47 PM CDT
by SandalsNoPants on Dec 27, 2011 1:54 PM CST up reply actions
How?
Guys like Sonny are low risk because you don’t pay guys like Sonny anything because they suck.
More like it could be a lot better. It really doesn’t get much worse outside of Lackey.
What could be better than Dan Johnson
hitting .108
Let's trade Reddick for Heyward!
by QW on Sep 28, 2011 9:47 PM CDT
by SandalsNoPants on Dec 27, 2011 10:02 PM CST up reply actions
Our former GM...
gave a guaranteed, multi-year, multi-million $$$ contract to John Grabow. We’ve improved by leaps and bounds.
--------------------------------
Just North of Wrigley Field
by jameslcrockett on Dec 27, 2011 11:16 PM CST up reply actions
Lackey
Vernon Wells. It could also be much better, but it can also be much
by McCutchenIsTheTruth on Dec 28, 2011 12:22 AM CST up reply actions
After five seasons, the chance is pretty slim Al
Certainly you understand that.
by Nunyabidness on Dec 27, 2011 1:54 PM CST up reply actions
What do you think Theo can pull off this season?
While he is trying to rebuild the talent base, he has to put a team on the field. Guys like Sonnanstine are relatively cheap and young enough to maybe (long shot sure) bounce back. Guys like him can hold the fort until something better comes along.
I always turn to the sports section first. The sports page records people's accomplishments; the front page has nothing but man's failures.
~Earl Warren
by lookingdeadred on Dec 27, 2011 3:11 PM CST up reply actions
I think I'd be shocked if we finished .500
I get what Theo is doing. I also support it.
But let’s be clear, the chances of Andy Sonnanstine suddenly recovering what he had HALF A DECADE ago are INCREDIBLY slim. For Al to even float it out there as a possibility is pretty damn silly. Especially when he does it in his usual condescending “so?” as if someone pointing out that its been quite a while since the dude topped 90 is just being hard headed.
by Nunyabidness on Dec 27, 2011 4:08 PM CST up reply actions 3 recs
Al says there is a chance that Sonnanstine could be productive,
while you and your buddies are saying there is virtually no chance. Now who is just being hard headed here?
I always turn to the sports section first. The sports page records people's accomplishments; the front page has nothing but man's failures.
~Earl Warren
by lookingdeadred on Dec 28, 2011 9:24 AM CST up reply actions
Well, Al's having some trouble grasping the whole "it's been 4-5 years" thing.
And he’s not doing well with other stats, comparing Russell to Sonnanstine and concluding Sonner would be a clear improvement.
What percent chance do you give Sonner to be successful in the majors for the Cubs? I’ll give him a 3% chance. And I think that’s more than generous.
What could be better than Dan Johnson
hitting .108
Let's trade Reddick for Heyward!
by QW on Sep 28, 2011 9:47 PM CDT
by SandalsNoPants on Dec 28, 2011 9:57 AM CST up reply actions
While you struggle to grasp no good seasons from LaHair.
I always turn to the sports section first. The sports page records people's accomplishments; the front page has nothing but man's failures.
~Earl Warren
by lookingdeadred on Dec 28, 2011 10:25 AM CST up reply actions
Again, LaHair has done a lot more a lot more recently in his opportunities than Sonner.
Since 2008, Sonner hasn’t been good at any level unless you want to count a very SSS at AA or whatever level it was (you’ll see it when you look it up). LaHair has been dominating and improving at AAA over that same time, and he was great in his time on the Cubs last season (SSS alert). These guys are going in opposite directions, but you seem to be only willing to judge Sonner on what he did in 2008 as if there aren’t major signs pointing to him never being an effective pitcher again since then.
What could be better than Dan Johnson
hitting .108
Let's trade Reddick for Heyward!
by QW on Sep 28, 2011 9:47 PM CDT
by SandalsNoPants on Dec 28, 2011 10:54 AM CST up reply actions
LaHair has done "a lot more"?
In 69 MLB plate appearances with the Cubs, in which he wasn’t “great”, but “pretty good”: .288/.377/.508
You have a weird definition of “great”.
And I have written many times about how “dominating” at Triple-A doesn’t mean very much when you are 27 and 28 years old.
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I think a 140 OPS+ is great. Also, his 138 wRC+ and .388 wOBA.
In fact, slugging over .500 is great, too.
Is that so wrong?
And no, dominating AAA doesn’t mean a ton at that age, but Sonnanstine has STRUGGLED in AAA at those ages! Take your pick! Who is more likely to succeed?
What could be better than Dan Johnson
hitting .108
Let's trade Reddick for Heyward!
by QW on Sep 28, 2011 9:47 PM CDT
by SandalsNoPants on Dec 28, 2011 2:04 PM CST up reply actions
But I'm a fan of the Rays, so maybe great means something different to me
I’m not used to watching the studs the Cubs have in their lineup. I’m just comparing to the guys I am familiar with.
What could be better than Dan Johnson
hitting .108
Let's trade Reddick for Heyward!
by QW on Sep 28, 2011 9:47 PM CDT
by SandalsNoPants on Dec 28, 2011 2:05 PM CST up reply actions
Cripes.
69 plate appearances. Small sample size!
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I already stated that.
Sounds like you’re backpedaling because you realized how well he did in the SSS.
What could be better than Dan Johnson
hitting .108
Let's trade Reddick for Heyward!
by QW on Sep 28, 2011 9:47 PM CDT
by SandalsNoPants on Dec 28, 2011 5:19 PM CST up reply actions
Exactly
I am not sure why he feels the need to pump up LaHair so much. There is a small chance he might amount to something, and the Cubs may as well give him a chance this year because the team is going nowhere, but to say LaHair has done much is a real stretch.
I always turn to the sports section first. The sports page records people's accomplishments; the front page has nothing but man's failures.
~Earl Warren
by lookingdeadred on Dec 29, 2011 7:56 AM CST up reply actions
Compare what they've done most recently.
You’ll see one has outdone the other by quite a bit.
What could be better than Dan Johnson
hitting .108
Let's trade Reddick for Heyward!
by QW on Sep 28, 2011 9:47 PM CDT
by SandalsNoPants on Dec 29, 2011 9:35 AM CST up reply actions
a ridiculously small sample size
to draw any conclusions about LaHair, that should be obvious, so why isn’t it obvious to you?
I always turn to the sports section first. The sports page records people's accomplishments; the front page has nothing but man's failures.
~Earl Warren
by lookingdeadred on Dec 29, 2011 9:43 AM CST up reply actions
I'm talking about MLB and AAA.
And I have been the entire time, dude, until Mr. Yellon said that LaHair’s SSS was only “pretty good” and not “great.”
Since 2008, Sonner hasn’t been good at any level unless you want to count a very SSS at AA or whatever level it was (you’ll see it when you look it up). LaHair has been dominating and improving at AAA over that same time, and he was great in his time on the Cubs last season (SSS alert). These guys are going in opposite directions, but you seem to be only willing to judge Sonner on what he did in 2008 as if there aren’t major signs pointing to him never being an effective pitcher again since then.
What could be better than Dan Johnson
hitting .108
Let's trade Reddick for Heyward!
by QW on Sep 28, 2011 9:47 PM CDT
by SandalsNoPants on Dec 29, 2011 10:21 AM CST up reply actions
It was only "pretty good".
Not even a .900 OPS. It wasn’t great. It was pretty good.
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He led the Cubs in OPS+ and OPS in 2011 for players with more than 2 games played.
Another tidbit, his OPS+ is a number that Aramis Ramirez has never reached in the majors.
But yeah, only pretty good. Is .900 OPS your line for calling a player “great?”
What could be better than Dan Johnson
hitting .108
Let's trade Reddick for Heyward!
by QW on Sep 28, 2011 9:47 PM CDT
by SandalsNoPants on Dec 29, 2011 4:55 PM CST up reply actions
He led the Cubs in OPS+ and OPS in 2011 for players with more than 2 games played.
Wow, impressive.
And an OPS+ of 140, in 69 plate appearances. Double impressive. Meanwhile, Aramis Ramirez has posted a 130 or higher OPS+ in a full season four times.
So who’s the better hitter?
And yes, in general, a 900 OPS is considered to be All-Star level.
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players with more than 2 games played
you really do not get the concept of appropriate sample size
I always turn to the sports section first. The sports page records people's accomplishments; the front page has nothing but man's failures.
~Earl Warren
by lookingdeadred on Dec 30, 2011 8:05 AM CST up reply actions
Why do you keep insulting me?
I understand sample sizes, and I only made that qualification because there was a guy with like 5 or 7 PA or AB who had higher numbers than LaHair.
I’m saying, for the playing time he was given, he was great. I’m not really sure why this is being argued. I’m not trying to make it out like he’s going to be a stud going forward, but there is evidence that points in the direction that he has a higher chance of outperforming Andy Sonnanstine.
What could be better than Dan Johnson
hitting .108
Let's trade Reddick for Heyward!
by QW on Sep 28, 2011 9:47 PM CDT
by SandalsNoPants on Dec 30, 2011 10:28 AM CST up reply actions
Why do you think I'm getting bent out of shape?
What could be better than Dan Johnson
hitting .108
Let's trade Reddick for Heyward!
by QW on Sep 28, 2011 9:47 PM CDT
by SandalsNoPants on Dec 30, 2011 11:34 AM CST up reply actions
You're getting mad that someone is calling you out for using small sample sizes
and trying to make statements based off of those sample sizes.
Aren’t you a little old to be getting bent out of shape from some honest feedback?
ZING!
Join us for complete MLB coverage at SB Nation's Baseball Nation
I'm not getting mad.
I pointed out in my initial comment that there was an SSS alert.
What could be better than Dan Johnson
hitting .108
Let's trade Reddick for Heyward!
by QW on Sep 28, 2011 9:47 PM CDT
by SandalsNoPants on Dec 30, 2011 4:06 PM CST up reply actions
Just giving honest feedback, my man
I always turn to the sports section first. The sports page records people's accomplishments; the front page has nothing but man's failures.
~Earl Warren
by lookingdeadred on Dec 30, 2011 2:15 PM CST up reply actions
Fair enough.
I hope you see the difference between the two types of feedback, though.
What could be better than Dan Johnson
hitting .108
Let's trade Reddick for Heyward!
by QW on Sep 28, 2011 9:47 PM CDT
by SandalsNoPants on Dec 30, 2011 4:08 PM CST up reply actions
I do, when do you plan on being able to distinguish them?
Anytime soon? Doubtful. You are obviously one of those say one thing do another kind of clowns.
I always turn to the sports section first. The sports page records people's accomplishments; the front page has nothing but man's failures.
~Earl Warren
by lookingdeadred on Dec 31, 2011 11:28 AM CST up reply actions
I'm trying to compare LaHair's recent performance to Sonner's here.
What are you trying to accomplish?
What could be better than Dan Johnson
hitting .108
Let's trade Reddick for Heyward!
by QW on Sep 28, 2011 9:47 PM CDT
by SandalsNoPants on Dec 31, 2011 12:25 PM CST up reply actions
Teaching you how to be respectful
We’re apparently all failing miserably.
Lookingdeadred is throwing around insults.
How is anyone supposed to learn to be respectful from him?
Have I been insulting people in this thread? I can’t remember. Let me know what you find out.
Why is everyone obsessed with Felix?
I would not give up the killer B’s or Montero for this guy! Why the heck is everyone obsessed with him?
by JBBY on Dec 31, 2011 2:08 PM CST
by SandalsNoPants on Dec 31, 2011 8:33 PM CST up reply actions
Your holier than thou attitude is too funny
I always turn to the sports section first. The sports page records people's accomplishments; the front page has nothing but man's failures.
~Earl Warren
by lookingdeadred on Jan 1, 2012 9:58 AM CST up reply actions
Why do you constantly resort to insults?
Why is everyone obsessed with Felix?
I would not give up the killer B’s or Montero for this guy! Why the heck is everyone obsessed with him?
by JBBY on Dec 31, 2011 2:08 PM CST
by SandalsNoPants on Jan 1, 2012 10:41 AM CST up reply actions
pot meet kettle
I always turn to the sports section first. The sports page records people's accomplishments; the front page has nothing but man's failures.
~Earl Warren
by lookingdeadred on Jan 1, 2012 10:59 AM CST up reply actions
Not even remote close.
And you haven’t answered the question.
Why is everyone obsessed with Felix?
I would not give up the killer B’s or Montero for this guy! Why the heck is everyone obsessed with him?
by JBBY on Dec 31, 2011 2:08 PM CST
by SandalsNoPants on Jan 1, 2012 11:00 AM CST up reply actions
Well put
Naveen Nallappa!
You can be whatever you want to be, just put your mind to it and work hard! -Dad
The larger point being missed
is the sorry state of our starting pitching in the minor leagues. When somebody like Andy Sonnanstine is superior to your internal options you’ve got obvious systemic issues. It’s an indictment of our scouting and player development dating back long before Hendry/Wilken. Other than slam duct obvious picks Wood & Prior, what other starters have we identified & developed in the past 20 years? Big Z is about the only guy who’s consistently proven himself to be more than a fringe 5th starter..
I’m not angry with the Sonnanstine sighning. I am however torked at the conditions which made it necessary.
I'm wet nurse to a last-place, dead-to-the-neck-up ball club, and I'm choking to death!
by Eisman57 on Dec 26, 2011 9:38 PM CST reply actions 1 recs
what about Steve Rain?
oh yeah….
I'm going to the 2012 Randy Hundley Fantasy Camp!!! Who's with me?
by VegasCubFan on Dec 26, 2011 11:05 PM CST up reply actions
Minor League Pitching
Frankly, I don’t think the signings of Corpas or Sonnanstine have anything to do with minor league pitching depth. Yeah, our system is pretty thin in the higher levels, particularly with pitching, but this is the sort of move I’d want the Cubs doing even if they had a system like the Diamondbacks. This wasn’t a necessary signing. This wasn’t a signing made because nobody is ready in AA/AAA.
This is the kind of signing smart teams do. Sonnanstine is 29 and has spent his entire career in the AL East. A change of scenery could benefit him. He’s not a potential ace, but he could be useful if he rebounds, either as trade fodder at the deadline or in a seriously unlikely run at the playoffs. If he stinks, the Cubs can cut bait without much harm done. In other words, he’s a lottery ticket.
In fairness to Hendry, this is the sort of signing he used to make. Ryan Dempster is his best example of this, but guys like Wade Miller and Scott Williamson also fit into that mold (for better and for worse). It was one of the things I was hoping to see Epstein continue. Good to see he’s keeping it up.
Exactly, moves like this buys time for your minor leaguers to get big league ready
Sonnastine is, at a minimum, holding a place until a youngster is ready, and if the Cubs get lucky, he might rediscover his form from a few years ago.
I always turn to the sports section first. The sports page records people's accomplishments; the front page has nothing but man's failures.
~Earl Warren
by lookingdeadred on Dec 27, 2011 7:58 AM CST up reply actions
Hah, I've been waiting decades for minor leaguers to become "big league ready"
Actuarial tables suggest I’ve got 23yrs left to live, perhaps they’ll be ready before I die? Sorry, this is not what “smart teams do.” No, smart teams identify and develop their own home grown pitching talent. Obviously it’s not easy but the Cubs are clearly amongst the worst teams in this regard, if not THE worst. I’m prepared to give Theo all the time he needs but please stop “spinning” this signing into anything more than cheap roster fodder.
I'm wet nurse to a last-place, dead-to-the-neck-up ball club, and I'm choking to death!
Did you even read what I posted?
I characterized Sonnanstine as a placeholder who has a small chance of being decent again.
Hah, I’ve been waiting decades for minor leaguers to become "big league ready. Actuarial tables suggest I’ve got 23yrs left to live, perhaps they’ll be ready before I die?
So they should do nothing in the meantime? Just because Theo’s predecessors have largely failed at building a productive farm system, does not mean Theo shouldn’t even try, right? Or are you suggesting the Cubs try, yet again, to buy a contender?
As for:
Sorry, this is not what "smart teams do." No, smart teams identify and develop their own home grown pitching talent.
Hello! This is exactly what the Cubs are trying to do. Unfortunately even the great and powerful Theo cannot wave his magic wand and make it happen overnight. They will rebuild the team via trading veteran players and via the draft. In the meantime, guys like Sonnastine can possibly hold the fort until the rebuilt farm system can start making contributions.
I always turn to the sports section first. The sports page records people's accomplishments; the front page has nothing but man's failures.
~Earl Warren
by lookingdeadred on Dec 27, 2011 1:50 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Must be a slow day - none of the recent signings are a big deal
Sonnanstine is starter number 6 or 7. Corpas is the number 9 or 10 guy in the bullpen. But the team needs some depth, which was a major problem in 2011. Addressing depth at a reasonable price but if either one of these guys pitches a lot in Chicago in 2012, it is a minor miracle or a desperate year.
Chris Bosio...
…really has his work cut out for him. I hope he has what it takes to revitalize and reinvigorate a boatload of marginal pitchers. …I think he can, I think he can, I think he can. – TL
"Sir,--It has been wittily remarked that there are three kinds of falsehood: the first is a 'fib,' the second is a downright lie, and the third and most aggravated is statistics." *The National Observer* (June 13, 1891): p. 93-94.
Gonna be a LOT of new faces at the Cubs Convention...
These players are in for a shock when they see the turnout.
There are 108 beads in a Catholic rosary and there are 108 stitches in a baseball. Who says baseball isn't a religion? (Now #8452 in the Cubs Season Ticket Wait List...)
ftfy ;-)
These fans are in for a shock when they see the players
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
by ballhawk on Dec 27, 2011 8:14 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
LOL. True.
There are 108 beads in a Catholic rosary and there are 108 stitches in a baseball. Who says baseball isn't a religion? (Now #8452 in the Cubs Season Ticket Wait List...)
Why rostered?
I don’t understand how non-guaranteed contracts result in roster spots. Can anybody make sense of this?
On Corpas, the Cubs may just have found themselves a backup closer with good control, IF his ineffectiveness was injury-related after his best year.
On Sonnanstine… can we be realistic around here, please? This is a waste of a roster spot, a younger Rodrigo Lopez at best. There is little to indicate that this pitcher is worth placing in front of Jay Jackson and Trey McNutt, unless the point is to keep those guys under control for an extra year… Hmmmm…. Sorta makes sense if you look at it that way.
Whatever the case, it is clear that TheoJed are bulking up on pitchers and outfielders, and now another catcher. We have four quality players that are tradeable in those areas, so they must be fattening up in order to cut those guys loose. Marmol, Garza, Byrd and Soto will be gone very soon, I think.
-- Jerome Horwitz
by KO Stradivarius on Dec 27, 2011 7:45 AM CST via mobile reply actions
Who says he's blocking McNutt or Jackson (or for that matter, Struck and Rusin)?
We need five guys to pitch at AAA. I for one hope we dont have to see Andy, and that one of the younger guys gets a shot first if a starter gets injured. But it doesn’t hurt one bit to have him pitch in AAA for depth and be our number 8 starter.
Yeah, I don't see an issue with signing guys to minor league contracts.
As we saw last year, everyone needs some depth.
DUMP GARZA
And just about everyone who started in Iowa had an ERA over 5
So it’s not like the team is burying Sandy Koufax.
Looking at
his comparables at his age, the best one is Wandy Rodriquez. If he can approach Rodriquez stats, good catch. If he goes the other way such as a Parque it will be a waste of time.
Another
no real risk, some upside signing by the Cubs.
by McCutchenIsTheTruth on Dec 27, 2011 9:53 PM CST reply actions
Think of it this way.
Last season, we were counting on a couple of guys on the brink of retirement to provide starting rotation depth. (Three, if you include Doug Davis.) Sonnanstine’s numbers are ghastly, but at least he’s under 30. He appears to me as a slightly older replicated version of Casey Coleman. But I’m not going to get too worked up about him making the rotation because he’s almost certainly not going to unless several guys get hurt.
"[The Cubs] have a very famous tradition in baseball, and it will be nice to be part of turning it around." ~ Jamie Quirk, Bench Coach
He's probably gonna suck.
I just really don’t want to get in a position like last year where the Cubs are pitching guys who can only go four innings at a time like Russell. That’s just a lack of preparation and foresight.
DUMP GARZA
Yeah, if Sonnanstine does wind up in big league games...
…let’s hope it’s only two or three while someone is on the 15-day DL. In the meantime, though, it’s not a bad idea to have him pitching every five days in Iowa, so he can go six innings if need be.
"[The Cubs] have a very famous tradition in baseball, and it will be nice to be part of turning it around." ~ Jamie Quirk, Bench Coach
80 career starts, 454 IP in those starts
That averages out to less than 6 IP per start.
From 2009-2011, it’s been 130.1 IP for 26 GS, so 5 IP.
You may be in luck!
What could be better than Dan Johnson
hitting .108
Let's trade Reddick for Heyward!
by QW on Sep 28, 2011 9:47 PM CDT
by SandalsNoPants on Dec 28, 2011 2:51 PM CST up reply actions
info, nonetheless.
What could be better than Dan Johnson
hitting .108
Let's trade Reddick for Heyward!
by QW on Sep 28, 2011 9:47 PM CDT
by SandalsNoPants on Dec 28, 2011 3:26 PM CST up reply actions
That's how we roll.
"[The Cubs] have a very famous tradition in baseball, and it will be nice to be part of turning it around." ~ Jamie Quirk, Bench Coach
Uh oh...I feel another hip hop parody song coming on.
"[The Cubs] have a very famous tradition in baseball, and it will be nice to be part of turning it around." ~ Jamie Quirk, Bench Coach

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