Rule 5 Draft Discussion Thread
by Al Yellon on Dec 8, 2011 7:00 AM CST
in Chicago Cubs News
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PrintThe Cubs have been... not very busy so far during the winter meetings. That doesn't mean they might not make moves later on.
Today is the Rule 5 draft. Will the Cubs select someone? Do we have the next Tim Lahey or David Patton ahead of us? (Let's hope not.)
Or, will the Cubs lose someone that was unprotected? Discuss here, and unless there's other big news involving the Cubs, you can use this thread for other discussion regarding the winter meetings, which wrap up today.
The Rule 5 draft begins at 9 a.m. CST.
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To be fair, we don't know that the Cubs haven't been busy
we just know the Cubs haven’t been busy signing players. I’m guessing they’ve been quite busy in discussions – just that those discussions haven’t produced any major moves yet.
Agreed.
I’m not concerned about the lack of signings yet. It’s only December 8.
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Same here
If we get to February and don’t have some clear plan in place, I’ll be concerned. But so far, I think only one team has made any significant signings. And none of the guys we were theoretically after are off the table yet anyway.
I wouldn’t be surprised to see the Cubs take Cesar Cabral from the Red Sox in the Rule 5. I would love if they chose Trevor Reckling from the Angels. I have always liked his left handed arm.
Phil Rogers tweeted two names.
Two guys #Cubs could take in Rule 5 draft — San Diego infielders Beemer Weems and Drew Cumberland
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Beemer Weems Vs. Roughned Odor
In a cage match.
10-25-2011. Theo Epstein joins the Cubs. Now, the fun begins.
I'd draft them on sheer name value alone
Cumberland’s nickname has to be “Cuke”. Has to be…
And Beemer? If his agent doesn’t hook him with up with an endorsement deal from his local BMW dealer, he should be fired.
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
You know what Mike Quade would call Roughned Odor?
Smelly.
"[The Cubs] have a very famous tradition in baseball, and it will be nice to be part of turning it around." ~ Jamie Quirk, Bench Coach
Put me in, coach!
"[The Cubs] have a very famous tradition in baseball, and it will be nice to be part of turning it around." ~ Jamie Quirk, Bench Coach
Following the trade rumors on twitter
has to be the most frustrating thing ever.
17'$ h4pp3n1n9!?!?!?
More frustrating than
listening to a Cubs Quade lineup.
10-25-2011. Theo Epstein joins the Cubs. Now, the fun begins.
Rejoice world!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
TBrownYahoo Tim Brown
Source: Pujols will sign with Angels for 10 years for between $250 and $260 million. Full no-trade. Pujols decided Thursday morning.
17'$ h4pp3n1n9!?!?!?
This seems unlikely...
I just don’t see him leaving for some reason.
Late in the season, in the midst of an inning and it’s just past the top of the hour so Pat mentions that we’re due for a station break. Ron kinda mumbles "Didn’t we just have one of those?" and without missing a beat Pat says "About an hour ago."
by Champaign Cubbies on Dec 8, 2011 9:04 AM CST up reply actions
Damnit...
I was really hoping St.L would be saddled with that contract…
me too!
The Stat Pack
by shoemile on Oct 21, 2011 10:10 PM CDT
by Madison Cub Fan on Dec 8, 2011 10:10 AM CST up reply actions
Holy cow!
Well, he’ll win at least one more World Series.
"Beisbol been berry berry good to me." -Tony Oliva
Dang I had been following Gonzalez for a while.
The bottom is loaded with nice people, Albert. Only cream and bastards rise
by Doggie Stalker on Dec 8, 2011 9:33 AM CST up reply actions
Who took Flaherty?
I could check but you seem up on it.
"Beisbol been berry berry good to me." -Tony Oliva
I think the Cubs can live with those losses.
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Live without them?
Sure. In fact, we could get both of them back.
Losing Flaherty and Gonzalez isn’t a good thing, but it’s not going to cost us a pennant or anything.
Still a mystery given all the open spots on the roster.
The bottom is loaded with nice people, Albert. Only cream and bastards rise
by Doggie Stalker on Dec 8, 2011 9:36 AM CST up reply actions
Yeah, I'd love to hear an explanation as to where there's plenty of open spots
yet a couple of guys who have the potential to be useful in the near-term were left off. Doesn’t seem to make sense for a team that has relatively little talent in the upper levels.
"Enough foreplay- let's get crackin'"- Fred Garvin
I don't get it either.
Someone should ask Theo at Cubs Convention.
"[The Cubs] have a very famous tradition in baseball, and it will be nice to be part of turning it around." ~ Jamie Quirk, Bench Coach
If that was my cue I have to pass
not going to make it this year.
The bottom is loaded with nice people, Albert. Only cream and bastards rise
by Doggie Stalker on Dec 8, 2011 11:52 AM CST up reply actions
Believe it or not, Crane is very disappointed...
It figures – I’ve finally got the perfect comeback (“Well, the jerk store called, and they’re out of you!”) and she’s not gonna make it. Damn…
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
That would be about right for Crane's level of intelligence.
However since I was responding to the possibility of asking a question to Theo, lets just say I would happy to have HIM call me
“Sweetheart”.
The bottom is loaded with nice people, Albert. Only cream and bastards rise
by Doggie Stalker on Dec 8, 2011 10:19 PM CST up reply actions
You HAVE to come to the convention.
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No individual loss is going to cost us a pennant
You could say that literall every time the Cubs do anything. That doesn’t mean this isn’t a negative/
Pat Riley is the devil.
I think that will be compensation
Permission to send him down.
10-25-2011. Theo Epstein joins the Cubs. Now, the fun begins.
Not good
Much more likely he sticks with the Astros. Heck, he’d probably start for them. They aren’t as good as the Tennessee Smokies.
by Josh Timmers on Dec 8, 2011 11:20 AM CST up reply actions
Let's get this out of the way now
Sarcastic Question: What future All-Star could the Cubs draft and trade to the Cincinnati Reds?
Angry Response: Hendry! Damn it! The Cubs need to clean house!! Anyone from the Cubs who even emailed Hendry
must be cleansed!!!
Angrier Response: Yeah!!!! Why hasn’t Ricketts mandated that yet!?!?!?!?! I am not impressed with him at all!!!!!!
Reasonable Response: Trust in Epstein-Hoyer-MacLeod. This is going to take time and I’’m sure they are working through in-depth analysis to determine how to get the best value from th dollars they spend.
Angriest Response: Damn it Bud!!!!!!! You hosed the Cubs with the new CBA!!!!!!!! Right when we get a front over that values extra draft picks, you take that away from us!!!!!!!!! I know this favors the Brewers!!!!!!!!!!
"Just shut up and play" - Matt Garza
"Pain is inevitable, suffering is an option." - Dale Sveum
You've used more !'s than TJ does.
I wonder why.
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Mason Tobin = next Josh Hamilton
Cubs take Mason Tobin from Angels; traded to Rangers.
Just cut out the CIN middle-man. Much more efficient.
"Just shut up and play" - Matt Garza
"Pain is inevitable, suffering is an option." - Dale Sveum
by RiskyBusiness on Dec 8, 2011 10:10 AM CST up reply actions
Ugh - my bad, that was from last year
"Just shut up and play" - Matt Garza
"Pain is inevitable, suffering is an option." - Dale Sveum
by RiskyBusiness on Dec 8, 2011 10:13 AM CST up reply actions
Albert Pujols discussion FanShot here
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I know nothing about Lendy Castillo. His numbers actually look OK
at A ball. Is there really a chance he’ll make the major league club?
No idea.
He’s a conversion guy like Sergio Santos (former shortstop). 22 years old. My guess is no; they’ll probably try to keep him via trade at the end of spring training.
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Which doesn't sound too difficult
Definitely less cumbersome than the major league requirement.
"Just shut up and play" - Matt Garza
"Pain is inevitable, suffering is an option." - Dale Sveum
by RiskyBusiness on Dec 8, 2011 9:35 AM CST up reply actions
from sonsofsamhorn
There are also two minor league phases to the Rule 5 draft: the AAA and AA phase. In addition to setting a 40-man roster, organizations are required to submit a AAA and AA roster of players eligible for the Rule 5 draft. Note that these rosters are larger than regular-season AAA and AA rosters and their composition during this phase is determined by the organizations evaluation of a player, not the player’s current level; the organization will place players they value more highly on the AAA roster.
After the Major League phase, the AAA phase takes place, in which other organizations can pluck players on other teams’ AA rosters. During the AA phase, organizations can take Rule 5-eligible players on neither roster. The minor league Rule 5 draft is primarily a roster-filling exercise and players taken rarely reach the major leagues, not to mention establish themselves as big-league players. Unlike the Major League phase, players drafted in the AAA phase are not required to play at AAA, nor are AA draftees required to play in AA. It costs $12,000 to select a player in the AAA phase and $4,000 in the AA phase.
by PrincetonCubs on Dec 8, 2011 9:34 AM CST up reply actions
Tweet from Nate Baliva
Might be awkward when new cub Ricky Alvarez gets to ST. Pimped walk off hr off Casey Harman in may 4 cedar rapids. Hit .257 in 2011 1b/3b
understandable that he'd want to celebrate
since hitting HRs wasn’t exactly a frequent occurrence for him
by PrincetonCubs on Dec 8, 2011 9:36 AM CST up reply actions
Ricky Alvarez, we hardly knew ye
http://muskat.mlblogs.com/2011/12/08/128-cubs-rule-5-draft/
The Cubs also picked infielder Ricky Alvarez from the Angels farm system in the Triple-A phase of the Draft, and then dealt him to the Monterrey team in Mexico for cash considerations.
Does this mean we’ll never hear the end of it if Alvarez goes on to become MVP of whatever league Monterrey is in?
by Jody Jody Davis on Dec 8, 2011 12:50 PM CST up reply actions
Josh Hamilton must be involved in this, somehow.
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I didn't know we could deal players to the Mexican League.
"[The Cubs] have a very famous tradition in baseball, and it will be nice to be part of turning it around." ~ Jamie Quirk, Bench Coach
so a mexican league baseball team is paying the Cubs?
The Stat Pack
by shoemile on Oct 21, 2011 10:10 PM CDT
by Madison Cub Fan on Dec 8, 2011 2:30 PM CST up reply actions
You can with their permission
The Cubs loaned Hung-Wen Chen to the Mexican League this year. He came back and pitched five games for Iowa in relief.
That was awfully nice of us.
"[The Cubs] have a very famous tradition in baseball, and it will be nice to be part of turning it around." ~ Jamie Quirk, Bench Coach
Draft results from MLB
Results of the 2011 Rule 5 Draft:
Major League Phase
HOU: Rhiner Cruz, RHP, Buffalo (NYM)
MIN: John Doyle, RHP, Charlotte (CWS)
SEA: Lucas Luetge, LHP, Nashville (MIL)
BAL: Ryan Flaherty, 2B, Iowa (CHC)
KC: Cesar Cabral, LHP, Pawtucket (BOS)
CHC: Lendy Castillo, RHP, Lehigh Valley (PHI)
PIT: Gustavo Nunez, SS, Toledo (DET)
ATL: Robert Fish, LHP, Salt Lake (LAA)
STL: Erik Komatsu, OF, Syracuse (WAS)
BOS: Marwin Gonzalez, SS, Iowa (CHC)
ARI: Brett Lorin, RHP, Indianapolis (PIT)
NYY: Brad Meyers, RHP, Syracuse (WAS)
Triple-A Phase
HOU: Marco Duarte, RHP, Tulsa (COL)
MIN: Marty Popham, RHP, Akron (CLE)
BAL: Andrew Loomis, LHP, Reading (PHI)
KC: Thomas Melgarejo, LHP, Chattanooga (LAD)
CHC: Ricky Alvarez, 3B, Arkansas (LAA)
SD: Michael Wing, SS, Arkansas (LAA)
PIT: Aaron Poreda, LHP, San Antonio (SD)
MIA: Donnie Webb, OF, Akron (CLE)
CIN: Travis Mattair, SS, Reading (PHI)
WAS: Beau Seabury, C, Tulsa (COL)
TOR: Javier Avenado, RHP, Springfield (STL)
SF: Luis Rojas, RHP, Kingsport (NYM)
STL: Barret Browning, LHP, Arkansas (LAA)
BOS: Gerardo Olivares, C, Montgomery (TB)
MIL: Domnit Bolivar, SS, Springfield (STL)
TEX: Fabian Williamson, LHP, Midland (OAK)
PIT: Francisco Diaz, C, Reading (PHI)
TOR: Gabriel Jacobo, OF, Arkansas (LAA)
STL: Shooter Hunt, RHP, New Britain (MIN)
TEX: Efrain Nunez, OF, Jackson (SEA)
PIT: Charles Cutler, C, Springfield (STL)
TOR: Hector Alvarez, C, Binghamton (NYM)
TEX: Alexander Buchholz, SS, Carolina (CIN)
Double-A Phase
BAL: Matthew Sweeney, 3B, Charlotte (TB)
WAS: Matthew Buschmann, OF, Lake Elsinore (SD)
"Just shut up and play" - Matt Garza
"Pain is inevitable, suffering is an option." - Dale Sveum
Ricky Alvarez- 13 walks in 516 PA's last year.
He makes Vitters look selective!
"Enough foreplay- let's get crackin'"- Fred Garvin
Maybe they'll convert him to pitching
...formerly known as zambranofan
by cubzfan on Dec 8, 2011 10:47 AM CST via mobile up reply actions
On a happier note, he did also get hit by pitches 13 times.
Holy crap! Over 500 PA’s, and as many HBP’s as BB’s. That’s really kind of amazing, isn’t it? I mean it’s one thing to swing at everything, but at least get the hell out of the way if it’s going to hit you. Maybe the kid just needs glasses.
"Enough foreplay- let's get crackin'"- Fred Garvin
Pedro Martinez
of hitting
10-25-2011. Theo Epstein joins the Cubs. Now, the fun begins.
CHC: Lendy Castillo, RHP, Lehigh Valley (PHI)
Ha! Sticking it to Ryno! ;-)
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
Theo's phone call to Ryno
Theo: Ryne, I just wanted to call and personally let you know that we will not be considering you for the Cubs managerial opening. You will always be a valued member of the Cubs family, but we’re looking for someone with major league manager or coaching experience.
Ryne: Thanks for the call and I can you guys are moving quickly to build a new management team. Maybe something will work out in the future.
Theo: We’ll always be open to that. While I have you on the phone, who were the best players that you had a Lehigh Valley last summer?
Ryne: Well, let me think…
"Just shut up and play" - Matt Garza
"Pain is inevitable, suffering is an option." - Dale Sveum
by RiskyBusiness on Dec 8, 2011 12:17 PM CST up reply actions
I wouldn't be surprised if he actually did this.
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I'm confused...
Baseball-Reference doesn’t have him any higher than A-ball, which means he wouldn’t have played for Lehigh Valley, no?
E-MLB
Muskrat’s recap – link above – has it correct.
"Just shut up and play" - Matt Garza
"Pain is inevitable, suffering is an option." - Dale Sveum
by RiskyBusiness on Dec 8, 2011 1:03 PM CST up reply actions
There was an error
in which it was reported that the Cubs took Leandro Castro from the Phillies and not Lendy Castillo. Castro’s never played for Lehigh Valley either, but he was on their roster this off-season.
Per MLBTR
The Red Sox turned around and traded Marwin to the Astros.
The sun is up. They sky is blue. It's beautiful, and so are you. Dear Prudence, won't you come out to play? ~Lennon & McCartney
by SouthWabashSoul on Dec 8, 2011 10:20 AM CST reply actions
So, how does a traded rule 5 player situation work?
Let’s assume (probably incorrectly) that this has nothing to do with compensation or any other negotiation.
If Marwin doesn’t stick with the Astros, would he be offered directly back to the Cubs, or first to Boston? Presumably, if he wound up back with the Cubs, the Sox would get their trade piece back as well?
Eamus Ursuli!
He should go back to the Cubs if he does not stick on the Astros
But I don’t think the Red Sox would have to return whatever they gave up to the Astros. It’s incubent on the Astros to keep him on their 25 man roster.
"Just shut up and play" - Matt Garza
"Pain is inevitable, suffering is an option." - Dale Sveum
by RiskyBusiness on Dec 8, 2011 11:02 AM CST up reply actions
He goes back to the Cubs
He’s much more likely to stick in Houston than in Boston though.
However, he would still have to clear waivers for the Cubs to send him down to the minors. So if he was returned to the Cubs and we tried to send him down, someone else could claim him on waivers. (Of course, they’d have to keep him in the majors too.)
by Josh Timmers on Dec 8, 2011 11:23 AM CST up reply actions
He goes back to the Cubs
But I think he’s required to have a layover in Boston on his return flight.
No worries - reply fails are always amusing... ;-)
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
Draft analysis from John Sickels at Minor League Ball
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Picture of Patton
Makes me laugh remembering that was the roster full of famous Generals names: Lee, Patton, Marshall, Bradley. I think I may be forgetting one.
"The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money." - Margaret Thatcher
Appropriately enough...
…my only last memory of David Patton pitching is him giving up a monstrous home run — I want to say it was a grand slam — to Albert Pujols.
"[The Cubs] have a very famous tradition in baseball, and it will be nice to be part of turning it around." ~ Jamie Quirk, Bench Coach
In fact, that photo was taken during that very game.
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Real quick question here
What’s the point of the rule 5 draft? Is it at all like the supplemental draft in the NFL. I’m thinking not, cause it’s amateurs versus collegiate players.
"I'm sore and I'm pissed off. I'm a baller. I want to feel the leather. I love thumb wars. 6-8 weeks? 6. follow me for healing, Jay Cutler does" - Jaysthumb twitter acct
The point is to keep a team from hording too many players they have no place for
It forces teams to decide which players to protect after the players have been in the system a few years . It very rarely results in a major catch but it can and does force teams to prioritize their minor league players.
The bottom is loaded with nice people, Albert. Only cream and bastards rise
by Doggie Stalker on Dec 8, 2011 10:23 PM CST up reply actions
sometimes even the Cubs find someone...
Jody Davis was a Rule 5 pick from the Cardinals in 1980
See the Cubs 2012 schedule at http://cubsbythenumbers.com/sched2012.html
Also see what old Cubs Scorecards looked like at http://cubsbythenumbers.com/scorecards.html
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