"Bleed Pujols Blue": Awesome FanShot Name
Please post all your Albert Pujols discussion here.
over 1 year ago
Bad Midget
408 comments
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Comments
One competing GM
says that the Cubs should trade Castro for 3 baseballs and 4 bats.
by jerry morales rules on Feb 14, 2011 10:27 PM CST reply actions
No matter how much time goes by
this dumb-asses picture still has its fame.
Just win the next game...!
I saw a response to a Pujols article in a STL publication
Which included that very distinctive “Get a brain!” phrase!! I immediately assumed, or hoped, it was this guy….
by daily2b on Feb 15, 2011 12:45 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
That's my sister
"A dream you dream alone is only a dream. A dream you dream together is reality." John Lennon
"My favorite food is Macaroni and Cheese, from the blue box." Geovany Soto
Ironically moronic?
My brain is hurting now lol
Starlin Castro singles on a pop up to catcher Jason LaRue.
Ryan Theriot scores. Two out -Gameday 7/23/10
by Sandberg's evil twin on Feb 21, 2011 8:41 PM CST up reply actions
Wow.
(that’s all)
<Don’t get excited, don’t get excited, don’t get excited…>
"Pounding sand since 1982...."
Facepalm!
"I think part of a best friend's job should be to immediately clear your computer history if you die." - Anonymous
I know, this means we won’t be able to go after Dunn in four years
by Bad Midget on Feb 14, 2011 10:56 PM CST via mobile up reply actions 5 recs
Uh huh......
I’ll mark the day on my calendar. All this Pujols talk will continue until he extends his contract with the Cards. I’d wish he’d do it already and be done with it but then all the drama would be over for the media.
I wouldn't assume that he will sign with them.
I wasn’t convinced before and I am less convinced now. Everyone assumed here in st. louis that he would be signed this spring and look what happened there. He was going to get the big money after working for far less than he was worth for years now…when you assume he will sign for them you assume the Cards will suddenly fork over a lot more money and years than they have been willing to so far. If he was simply posturing for a higher salary or years or both…and the Cards were going to pay it, why didn’t they? Do you think going through free agency bidding is going to lessen the bid amounts?
Yes the market is deflated a little with the economy, but Albert Pujols is the best player and hitter in baseball. He’s going to get an ARod salary and contract. Time will tell with whom.
Starlin Castro singles on a pop up to catcher Jason LaRue.
Ryan Theriot scores. Two out -Gameday 7/23/10
by Sandberg's evil twin on Feb 21, 2011 8:47 PM CST up reply actions
I mean this isn't really anything new
The Cubs are the best fit for Pujols if he were to hit the open market, and we have the money to sign him. It’s a matter of Number 5 wanting to do it.
Viva la Cubs Révolution!!!
C'mon man
I am not a fan of speculative tweets. I feel journalists should do better. Maybe it’s simply for the sake of hype, drama, disinformation? I’d rather have sports “news”.
I’m torn on Pujols as a potential Cub. Very likely a great thing for us if it happens, but… does anyone else feel like he’s our long time foe? Would Star Wars have been as good if Vader helped blow up the Death Star?
(sorry, only handy analogy at the moment)
I wouldn't care if the Devil himself got the save in a World Series clinching game for the Cubs.
GM's are in charge of Managers, not the other way around.
Let's see....
So a lineup featuring an outfield of Barry Bonds, Carl Everett and Milton Bradley, Joe Morgan at 2b, Neifi Perez at SS, Jeff Kent over at 3B, and what the hell, McGwire at 1B. AJ Pierzynski behind the plate (with Todd Hundley as his backup), Roger Clemens and Brett Myers in the starting rotation, LaTroy Hawkins to set up and that fist pumping dancing on the mound after a save fool, Jose Valverde to close games out.
And oh, let’s not forget team owner Bud Selig and manager Tony LaRussa.
You would cheer for this team as your World Series winning Chicago Cubs? ;-)
(I’m sure I left a few out – feel free to add your own. Oh, and Worf – I added Brett Myers just for you as I know how much of a fan of his you are…)
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
by ballhawk on Feb 15, 2011 7:35 AM CST up reply actions 4 recs
Galling as that (impossible) construction would be...
It’s not really useful to engage in counterfactuals.
Also, you left out Pete Rose.
Or, or, or...
Imagine if Jim Edmonds was playing CF!!!
wait…
Eamus Ursuli!
Very clever
I would happily cheer Bonds, Everett, Bradley, Morgan, Neifi, Kent and McGwire if they won a World Series for the Cubs. I’d cheer Pierzynski under the “Rodman Clause” which is “Hate him when he’s somewhere else; love him here”
Clemens and LaTroy would be just fine. I could cheer for LaRussa.
As for Myers — well, my fondest hope would be that he pitched a gutty Game 5 — going into the 8th after just two days rest and then walked off the mound.
And then his arm fell off. And then he was arrested. And then a bus hit him. And then he was arrested again for littering.
"It's all in the game, yo"
Schottzie rocks...
Specially when he’s not crapping on my shoes.
Starlin Castro singles on a pop up to catcher Jason LaRue.
Ryan Theriot scores. Two out -Gameday 7/23/10
by Sandberg's evil twin on Feb 21, 2011 8:50 PM CST up reply actions
you forgot k-rod and his interpretive dances after every save
He's my Hossa
HO-HO-HO-HO-HOSSA
by jesus christos on Feb 15, 2011 3:54 PM CST up reply actions
you missed Berkman
where is he in this mix of OMGWTFBBQ of a team
Chronologically inept since 2060
Q: Why did Chuck Norris cross the road?
A: Ditka
Ditka's mustache can block a Chuck Norris round house
OFWGKTA?
www.facebook.com/craighudak
by Craig in South Bend on Feb 16, 2011 10:41 PM CST up reply actions
Agree with Shoemile, but, at the same time, have the exact same feeling as you re: this situation
Keep that Q Train rollin' in '11. Let's win it for Ronnie.
If Darth Vader could post Pujols' stats the Cubs should sign him, too
by ClarkFan on Feb 15, 2011 8:43 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Remember how quickly we came around on Jim Edmonds?
We hated that guy. And then, almost immediately, we loved him.
No one even hates Albert. We are frightened of him and respect his immense talent. But no one really despises him the way we despised Jim Edmonds.
MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown
Personally, I only tolerated Edmonds.
Pujols as a Cubs would be just plain weird. However, that contract would make me cry. And they wouldn’t be tears of joy.
Baseball is back!!
by cowsarecool220 on Feb 15, 2011 11:04 AM CST up reply actions
That's a fair point.
I’d also add that the important thing is not so much whether us fans would want him but whether he wants to be here….I mean barring unruly fans picketing him during spring training he won’t know how he would be accepted in Chicago. So it really boils down to whether he is willing to play for his hated rival for so many years. Edmonds was pissed off at Tony, I doubt Albert is more than mildly irritated at him. He sure would be a wonderful asset to have. Imagine how many home runs he’d hit with 81 games in Wrigley.
Starlin Castro singles on a pop up to catcher Jason LaRue.
Ryan Theriot scores. Two out -Gameday 7/23/10
by Sandberg's evil twin on Feb 21, 2011 8:54 PM CST up reply actions
Sure he's a foe but he's not the asshole player
that makes you want to hate him because of his personality. He’s just damned good.
This tweet is doing exactly what he had hoped for; stir up a fan base or 2.
Just win the next game...!
by blackhawk24 on Feb 15, 2011 12:20 PM CST up reply actions
You Know whos an asshole...Joey Votto
Hes the only first baseman i wouldnt want on the Cubs
I'd still take him in a heartbeat.
He’s an incredible talent.
He's only a DH (not designated hitter) because
he dissed the fan base, right? While agree with your assessment at this time, do you believe you would not ever cheer for him if he were in Cubbie Blue?
Just win the next game...!
Once again it's pure speculation
Not that it isn’t fun to speculate, but until something gets leaked out of the Cubs about their intentions I won’t be getting excited.
"Keep pushin' til' it's understood. And these badlands start treating us good."
It's speculation
and I don’t know of anyone who doesn’t think the Cubs are a very likely destination if Pujols leaves St. Louis.
But if I were Albert Pujols agent, this is exactly the type of information I would want to get out into the media and for the Cardinals ownership to read.
So take it with a grain of salt for now.
I suppose there are two ways to look at it
On one hand, a 10 year contract to someone (anyone) who will be in his 40s when the contract is over isa huge risk, even if he’s a future HOF and still in his prime. On the other hand, if that player delivers MVP type performance over the first half of the contract and helps the team win a title, then is it worth perhaps massively overpaying for the second half of the contract?
Yes.
It would have been for Soriano if the Cubs had won in 2007 or 2008.
It would be even more worth it for Pujols.
Check out Chicago sports coverage at SB Nation Chicago
Indeed
Soriano got us two back to back playoff appearances, which hadn’t happened in my lifetime, or in yours’, either, I suspect.
That had more to do with the shift to 6 divisions and 8 playoff teams, than the addition of Soriano.
If they expand to 16 playoff teams like the NHL and we make it 3 straight years, I’m not going to say Matt Garza or somebody “got us” to something that had never happened in our lifetimes.
Playoff appearances are a helluva lot cheaper than they were before realignment.
MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown
That team won the most games playing in a terrible division in a watered down
league. Not sure how old you are or if you’re just going by wins but I think I have rooted for better Cub teams in my lifetime.
I was going by wins
Terrible division? Watered down league? I don’t know about that. Unless you think baseball is worse today than it was in 1989, 1984 etc. I am not buying that argument as the talent pool is much larger.
I think you can make arguments for the 1989 and 1984 teams. The fact stands that the 2008 team did have the best record in the NL. Led the division basically wire-to-wire and led the league in runs scored. Only team to finish with above a .600 winning percentage since 1945.
I assumed that anyone posting in this thread wasn’t alive for the 1945 WS team too. Might be a couple exceptions, but generally true.
the 2007 and 2008 were the big fish in a small pond
and I would bet that in a series the 84 and 89 Cubs would beat both teams more often than not.
Chronologically inept since 2060
Q: Why did Chuck Norris cross the road?
A: Ditka
Ditka's mustache can block a Chuck Norris round house
2007? Yes. 2008? No.
I think most forget how dominant that 2008 team was because of the collapse against the Dodgers. That team damn near won 100 games.
The '08 team did not play well down the stretch either. They hit their
peak weeks before the end of the season. It might have been surprising how pitiful they looked against LA but it wasn’t surprising that they lost.
they damn near won 100 games in a horrible NL Central
not impressive, and their post season play showed that they were the big fish in a small pond, but not as good as the numbers
Chronologically inept since 2060
Q: Why did Chuck Norris cross the road?
A: Ditka
Ditka's mustache can block a Chuck Norris round house
The NL has expanded a bit since '89...shallower talent pool.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Feb 16, 2011 10:35 AM CST up reply actions
Talent pool has expanded too
Larger population, more players from overseas etc.
Do you really think a higher quality of baseball was played in 1989 than in 2008? That players in 2008 couldn’t compete at the same level as in 1989? I would argue that just in terms of training methods alone 2008 is higher quality than 1989.
This is a pretty silly argument in general. The ’89 team was pretty good, but had just as many one-year wonders as the 2008 team.
I like silly arguments...
which is better slim jims or jack’s links?
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Feb 16, 2011 11:51 AM CST up reply actions
I like Bicycle Day
If the Cubs still have a chance, no matter how small, it’s still Go Cubs, damn the math and pass the KoolAid.
I've never had Jack's Links.
So someone needs to answer this question for me. Immediately.
GM's are in charge of Managers, not the other way around.
Featured Poll, Al. Featured Poll...
Do we really care how many games the Cubs are going to win this year? C’mon, seriously? That’s just a bunch of African water buffalo belly button lint compared to divining the answer to Jack’s vs Slim Jims…
Change the poll. Change the poll. Change the poll. Change the poll…
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
Maybe I should have a poll on what the poll should be.
Check out Chicago sports coverage at SB Nation Chicago
I vote for poll dancing!
If the Cubs still have a chance, no matter how small, it’s still Go Cubs, damn the math and pass the KoolAid.
Pat & Ron have broached that subject on occasion
Well, mostly Ron – and only late at night during rain delay theatre situations.
Pat would usually say something like “No comment” or “I’ll defer to your expertise in this matter, Ron”.
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
for the win!
I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve. -J.R.R. Tolkien
Based on what?
That team won 8 fewer games, collapsed down the stretch, and missed the playoffs.
Sure, it might have had more raw talent but it wasn’t a better team.
Based on what you just said...
That's a pretty bad argument
I think you are going to have a hard time finding many to agree with you that the 2004 Cubs team that woefully underachieved was the best team of our lifetime.
This isn’t pre-season where ‘on paper’ matters.
2004
was a bad team with a ton of talent on it. 2003 was a better team despite not having quite the talent that the 04 club had. If Dusty had managed the personalities on that team better—who knows. But best team? No way 04 comes up in that conversation.
DEJESUS!!!
playoff appearances are a helluva lot cheaper
than when only 2 teams made it – so I guess bah humbug to every team that has won the WS in the last 50 some odd years
But if that contract alone is 20% of what the team owner seems willing to spend
each season, and there’s not an army of cheap incredibly talented position players in the minors ready to explode onto the scene, it’s hard to see how the HOFer will bring them a championship.
Even coming from the traditionally week NL Central the Cards have made it to the Series only twice winning once, with a mediocre team in 2006, when the Tigers just handed it to them with some of the sloppiest play in WS history.
My point is, it’s not like Pujols is so great he’s simply powers his team to the Series each season. It takes a team and Pujols won’t be joining a very good one next season should he decide to sign.
I’d love to sign Pujols if the Ricketts also announced they were also upping the payroll 50%. But if they sign one of the best players in baseball history hoping he will keep the turn-styes humming even during down seasons, it will feel like more of the same from my favorite team. .
1 WS for the Cards in 2 appearances in true, but
how many playoff appearances did they have this past decade? 6 times by my count. (7 if you count 2000)
The Cubs had 3 – 03, 07 and 08.
TR
But much of that time the Cards have had better pitching and a better team than the Cubs.
Albert, while a massive part of the Cards’ success, didn’t and can’t do it alone. And if you pay him all of that money without also upping the payroll I don’t see the point.
why do they have to up the payroll?
they have more coming off the books than what this deal allegedly costs. It’s not your money, so why fight it. Adding the greatest right handed hitter in baseball history in the middle of his career is a no-brainer. And if some of the kids are as good as advertised, we have league minimum cost-controlled guys coming to the big league team—no need to spend 8 million on the Grabows and Miles of the world. They payroll will be fine. And I’ll bet they will sell thousands of Pujols jerseys in the first week giving a nice jolt of cash to the franchise.
He's not really in the middle of his career...
if you figure the likely productive years of an elite player are age 22-36, you’ll get Pujols with 10 years down and five years to go. That’s the problem with giving him a 10 year contract.
Sign Rodrigo Lopez!!!
peak years do not begin at 22
but I understand what you are trying to say. I was mereley saying we will have him during his peak years meaning we would also have him during his decline. I’m not foolish enough to think he will OPS 1.036 during the entire 10 year deal. But he could go “Bonds” on the NL until he turns 41 and that deal looks small.
His next contract will be entirely post-peak...
as he will be 32 years old when the deal starts. No one is going “Bonds” anymore – there are NO regulars in their late 30s who are any good anymore. Ichiro is the only exception I can think of…
And the warning signs are there for Pujols – over the past five years he has gone from an elite defender to an average one.
Sign Rodrigo Lopez!!!
useful but dangerous
Really Pujols is a pretty uncharted type of player.
You really need to limit the comps to the truly elite players. But, you need to throw out the elite players from the “juiced era”. So, now you would need to look back to elite players from 25 years ago or so. But, physical conditioning etc. is certainly better now than it was during the 80’s, so…
Long story short, it is impossible to predict what Pujols will be doing 10 years from now.
Eamus Ursuli!
There's this:
http://www.hardballtimes.com/main/article/how-do-baseball-players-age-part-2/
I think we can safely say two things: 1. On offense, over the next 4-5 years, Pujols is not going to get markedly better; he might decline a bit or stay the same, 2. His defense is going downhill at a steady clip.
If he becomes a liability at first (say, -10 runs) and stays the same hitter he won’t be better than a six win player. That’s great, but buying that for $30 million while also signing up for what will likely be a complete albatross in years 7-10 is just dumb.
Sign Rodrigo Lopez!!!
you just don't know and neither do I
I think you and I both agree he is a once in a lifetime player. I believe Pujols will be contending for MVP awards from age 32- 36 years at a minimum. That’s half of the contract where I believe he will be one of the best if not the best player in the NL. I disagree with the “post-peak” comment.
I chuckled at your sentence “there are no regulars in their late 30’s. Oh wait—Ichiro.” So, suffice to say, there just isn’t a way to comp it. Even in your own words, you said no and then offered someone else—another once-in-a lifetime player which Pujols clearly is.
I’m not worried about his defense at 1B. You are. We can agree to disagree on that value.
Ichiro...
has a skill set that tends to age well, then he’s an outlier for those with that skill set. To take a different type of player with a completely different set of skills, ignore the obvious defensive decline, and sign him to a huge deal because one other guy out of dozens of elite players is still performing well is not a wise move. Just because he’s better than comps like Helton, ARod, Teixeira, and Howard doesn’t mean he can’t be compared to those guys.
Sign Rodrigo Lopez!!!
Speed gets less speedy...
but guys who are speedy tend to age better overall than big lumbering guys. I suppose this is due to their overall level of fitness. I don’t know if there’s been a study, but Lofton, Raines, Brock, Henderson, Wilson and others come to mind.
Sign Rodrigo Lopez!!!
I suppose.
But in either case, as you just did, most people tend to point to outliers. I’m assuming Al and others are assuming Pujols will be an outlier—a reasonable deduction, IMO.
I picked those names...
from the list of top single season stolen bases. There are a few that flamed out early: Coleman, Leflore, Rivers. You are right though, there needs to be a comprehensive look. I’d be shocked though if lean wasn’t better for longevity than hefty.
Sign Rodrigo Lopez!!!
then the one who makes you question everything
Julio Franco
Chronologically inept since 2060
Q: Why did Chuck Norris cross the road?
A: Ditka
Ditka's mustache can block a Chuck Norris round house
by Cubbie-Tim on Feb 17, 2011 9:13 AM CST via mobile up reply actions
Depends on how that speed was used.
If we’re talking young speed that turned shots to the gaps and/or down the lines into triples, then yeah, that probably ages well. Maybe those are only doubles or singles now, but that’s still a hit.
But if that young speed was getting a lot of bunt singles and/or beating out infield hits, then no – I wouldn’t expect that to age well, because those will likely turn into outs now.
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
I'll nitpick a bit..
and say that the first type of player you mentioned would have his value severely hurt, even if he was still getting hits. One of many knocks against Theriot would be his absurdly low SLG%. Even if he hits 300, his OPS makes it less valuable.
But yes, I would agree that speed is a trait that manifests itself differently in certain players and their individual games.
What about Ted Williams?
Williams was clearly not as good at 39 as he was at 22. For one, he didn’t hit .400.
But Williams hitting line at 39 was .328/.458/.584. It wasn’t very good at 40, going .254/.372./.419. Not great, but still above average. In Williams final season at age 41, he hit an incredible .316/.451/.645.
To say Pujols can’t continue to play well up to 40 because he’s not taking steroids is just wrong. Guys like Ted Williams, Babe Ruth and Stan Musial were still productive ballplayers at 40. And to compare Pujols to anyone lesser than that is just wrong too.
by Josh Timmers on Feb 15, 2011 1:19 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Exactly.
This is a once in a generation player we’re talking about. Maybe you make the last two years of the deal some sort of mutual option — kind of like the deal Derek Jeter got.
But I have no problem giving Albert Pujols a 10-year contract.
Speaking of Stan Musial, who got the Presidential Medal of Freedom today, take a look at the season he had in 1962, when he was 41 years old. Pujols could do that. Incidentally, had Musial not missed a year for WWII — right at his peak — he could have had close to 3900 career hits.
Check out Chicago sports coverage at SB Nation Chicago
You need to open it up and look at as many comparables as possible...
and not just cherry pick. I know some here argue there are no comparables because Pujols is so good, but that’s not really true. He’s human and he’s subject to the same, or at least similar, effects of aging as others. And like I said there are real red flags- Chronic PF, elbow issues, and his deteriorating performance at first.
If you look at his comps on Baseball Reference, you’ll see the median age for not being good anymore for those 10 guys is about 36.
Sign Rodrigo Lopez!!!
Comps
I see what you are saying here, but at the same time Pujols likely requires different analysis. He has a unique ability to recognize pitches combined with a swing that has little to no holes in it. I think that is why guys like Musial and Williams should be compared with Pujols.
The bottom line is, truly gifted hitters have shown a better ability to adjust as their body ages. Will that happen with Pujols? Who knows? But, the elite hitters of the past have figured out how to keep hitting as they aged.
The problem is
that there just aren’t any good comparables for Albert Pujols.
The best comparable for Pujols, IMO, is Lou Gehrig. Unfortunately, Gehrig isn’t a good comp for understanding how Pujols is going to age, since we can assume that Pujols doesn’t have a disease that’s going to kill him at age 37.
The comps on B-R are for amusement purposes only. They don’t take into account so many things that they really don’t have a lot of predictive value. Besides, are you really saying that Pujols is going to drink himself out of the game like Jimmie Foxx?
I’m not cherry picking any more than you are. The problem is that no one is similar to Albert Pujols. The red flags you mention aren’t even red flags. For all his “chronic injuries” that you talk about, he’s averaged 155 games a year over ten seasons. He’s never played in fewer than 143 games in a season. That means he’s that good even with what you’re talking about. Ted Williams had a lot more injury issues than Pujols ever had. Yet he was still a great player at 41.
by Josh Timmers on Feb 15, 2011 2:56 PM CST up reply actions
You need a big sample...
that includes a lots of players, like the hardball times article I linked to above. It clearly shows that 32 is post-peak, which is all I was saying.
As for Pujols being indestructible, guys are consistent until they stop being consistent. Shit happens. Lou Gehrig was the Iron Horse, churning out monster seasons, then he was dead. The best thing to do is have a large sample size of the most similar players possible and see how they performed. All players are human, they are all variations of the same thing. Therefore, they are comparable.
Sign Rodrigo Lopez!!!
There is no big sample
of players comparable to Pujols. Even guys like Jimmie Foxx and Frank Robinson aren’t all that similar.
The issue isn’t whether or not Pujols will decline as he gets older. Of course he will. The issue is that he’s so good, he could decline and still be one of the best five players in baseball. Maybe even still the best.
by Josh Timmers on Feb 15, 2011 5:26 PM CST up reply actions
+1
I believe that he is so far out in front of 99.99999% of the players that even at 37 and 38 he will still be an above average 1bman
by hansman1982 on Feb 16, 2011 10:27 AM CST up reply actions
My feeling exactly...
He’s so much head and shoulders above the rest of the league that even at 38 he will still be mashing the ball…
R.I.P. Ronnie Santo... you will be missed...
ok Josh
you sold me. As much has Pujols has been a top-5 all-time RH hitter so far, I was nervous about giving him 10 years. But I’m converted. Let’s do it.
DEJESUS!!!
That makes 4 of us
give him what he wants – you figure we are going to have to pay $15 million a year to get anything remotely similar and probably closer to $20 – so you have to say to yourself is Pujols worth $15 million a year in extras and I say HELL YES. The Cubs #5 jerseys that you will sell will pay that off no problem
I'm down to make it a 6-pack
or would that be a 6-pact?
I think 33 million a year for 8 years...
with 18 million dollar player options in years 9 and 10. Plus MVP incentives and such. Thats equals 300 million +.
Thats a huge amount of money but if he signs im sure the Cubs will enjoy a big revenue boost. Allowing them to increase the payroll.
I don't think
We’ll have to go to 33 million a year. I think more like $29 million would do it if you’re going to eight years.
by Josh Timmers on Feb 16, 2011 4:37 PM CST up reply actions
I was just going by what i heard hes looking for
I havent really heard how close the Cards where to his offer.
But being a division rival might make the price tag go up.
Not many teams are gonna be able to able to add a 1st baseman and with such a high price but who knows its Albert Pujols.
The Cards offered
around $20 million a year, and the debate now is whether or not that was a deliberate insult.
by Josh Timmers on Feb 16, 2011 10:19 PM CST up reply actions
Wow, that's it?
Doesn’t bode well for them moving forward.
GM's are in charge of Managers, not the other way around.
Ya i just heard that on mlb tv
Someone said that he offered a contract that would have made him the top 10 most paid player. So thats between 19-21 million.
Im a little skeptical of that information. Would they really offer him just slightly more than jason werth?
If hes not getting more than ryan howard then hell probably leave.
The Cardinals
have always operated on the “home town discount” method. Albert has made clear he’s not going to give that. Maybe they thought he was kidding.
by Josh Timmers on Feb 17, 2011 1:15 PM CST up reply actions
Yeah, that "Baseball Heaven" crap seems to have
been repeated so much that they actually believe it and expect people to give up 10s of millions of dollars to play in the empty shell of a mid-20th century city.
Well said.
If the Cubs still have a chance, no matter how small, it’s still Go Cubs, damn the math and pass the KoolAid.
First you must figure out how old he is.
Everyone knows those birth certificates are likely to be phonies…yeah it’s a risk to sign him for that long, he’s been remarkably resiliant to play which means it’s likely he will have an injury sometime. I would balk at making it 10 years but in the end he is probably worth it.
Starlin Castro singles on a pop up to catcher Jason LaRue.
Ryan Theriot scores. Two out -Gameday 7/23/10
by Sandberg's evil twin on Feb 21, 2011 9:03 PM CST up reply actions
Everyone does not know that
If Pujols’ birth certificate was faked, it would have had to have been faked to get him into HS in KC when he was 16 when he moved to America. That doesn’t make much sense, since if your goal was to lie about your kid’s age to get him a better baseball contract, why in the world would you then move to Kansas City where he would be controlled by the draft?
Could Pujols be older than he claims? Possible, but unlikely. Cheap cynicism is no replacement for common sense.
by Josh Timmers on Feb 21, 2011 10:10 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Correct.
Plus, birth dates of foreign players were all double checked after 9/11. Some players did have years tacked on to their ages — including Alfonso Soriano, who had originally claimed a 1978 birth date, but it was confirmed he was born in 1976.
Pujols was born in 1980. I don’t think there’s a shadow of a doubt that’s a fact.
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by Al Yellon on Feb 22, 2011 11:09 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
a certain network
isnt letting it go though…every time they mention him they bring it up – “and there’s questions about his age” - god I wish there was a better network on cable that I didnt have to pay extra for…
I want a Blue
- Jersey I can wear to games here at Hammon’s Field. Of course, the Cardinal fans in the park will likely string me up. Maybe, I can win the opportunity to throw out the first pitch when my company has it’s annual day at the park. Won’t that be a lot of fun!! ;p
I have PMS & a GPS -- which means -- I am a bitch, and I will find you.
by cub in louies nest on Feb 15, 2011 9:36 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
That was supposed to be
The number sign & a 5. I didn’t know it would do that.
I have PMS & a GPS -- which means -- I am a bitch, and I will find you.
by cub in louies nest on Feb 15, 2011 9:38 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
I agree completely...
…if this were basketball, where one player makes a huge difference, you go for it. With baseball, it just doesn’t work that way.
If he wants 30 mil per year for up to 10 years, I woudn’t touch that with a 10 foot pole and the Cards did the right thing for the long term health of their team.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
Heyman is pretty good
however this is a reach. If Albert doesn’t have a deal by Nov. 2011, then maybe I will start thinking that he could become a Cub. For now he is a Cardinal.
I still wonder if
(minus an agreed-upon CBA) the Cardinals get any compensation for him if he walks.
I think you guys are a little too pessimistic about your chances...
if the Cubs are willing to go the full A-Rod, #5 will likely be yours.
Sign Rodrigo Lopez!!!
Depends on whether he actually hits the FA market
The Cards still have powerful incentives to find some way to swing a deal.
"You went full ARod, man. You can NEVER go full ARod."
Contributing Editor, SB Nation Chicago. Please follow us on Twitter!
They've gone plaid!
"Dad gum right this games gonna be played under protest. . . I guarantee this is gonna be one protest that's upheld." --Hawk Harrelson, 6/24/07
It's raspberry! I hate raspberry!
Contributing Editor, SB Nation Chicago. Please follow us on Twitter!
You have the ring, and I see your Schwartz is as big as mine. Now let's see how well you handle it.
by ubercubsfan on Feb 15, 2011 11:49 AM CST up reply actions
When will then be now?
Soon!
"This is a football." "Slow down, coach! You're goin' too fast!"
My thoughts:
It’s a ludicrous amount of money. An he’s the best player I’ve ever seen, bar none.
It could really shackle our lateral movement—that’s a lot of money tied up in guys like Soriano, Pujols, Zambrano, Dempster—and we wouldn’t be able to make a lot of other signings.
Everything’s always peachy on the front end of the tunnel (Soriano), but how’s it going to look near the end of the contract? The man has shown no regression whatsoever.
I’d offer him max dollars for less years, perhaps $30M/year for 8 years. See if that does it.
"The riches of the game are in the thrills, not the money." --Ernie Banks
I would want to know what the plan was for the pitching staff
Unless Garza hits Hendry’s high-as-the-sky forecast and 1 or 2 other guys emerge from the farm system, Pujols + present Cubs pitching staff = probable disappointment. If sigining him was part of a plan to push the payroll to the Red Sox/Phillies level, that could also work. But I don’t see the Ricketts going to that kind of payroll before the short-term acquisition loan is repaid (set for 2013), if then.
Fortunately, by Year 4 all that Soriano money finally falls off the table.
Put it this way – we know some free agent is going to bilk us out of this cash anyway… we might as well blow the money signing the greatest player of our generation away from our most hated rivals.
OR – and bear with me here – we could sign TWO mediocre guys for the same money!
Call me crazy, but I’d rather go down in flames having signed my FIRST choice, (the Beltrans and Pujolses of the world) than limp along waiting for Fukudome and Soriano’s contracts to expire.
MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown
I agree
Of course everyone wants Pujols for a 6-year deal. He would have 10+ teams willing to offer him 6 years. The team that grabs him is going to be the one that offers him 8-10 years. Either way the Cubs should be involved in the bidding to make it as painful as possible for the Cards even if they do manage to re-sign him.
+1
I have PMS & a GPS -- which means -- I am a bitch, and I will find you.
by cub in louies nest on Feb 15, 2011 9:41 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
Make it 12 years
front load it so a vast majority is paid in 8 years (>85%) and let the numbers fall off the table, like we’d expect his production to, in ages 39+.
Something like: 35, 35, 35, 35, 35, 35, 25, 25, 15, 10, 10, 5: Total: $300M
It’d look just like the long-term NHL deals (Hossa and Keith with the ’Hawks) only w/o the salary cap hit being the average of all seasons.
Cubs fans want Pujols? This is what it’ll take. Or something really, really close.
Just win the next game...!
i still say offer 10 years
1-7 guarantee
8 player option
9 mutual option
10 team option
Chronologically inept since 2060
Q: Why did Chuck Norris cross the road?
A: Ditka
Ditka's mustache can block a Chuck Norris round house
Isn't it partially about whether he'd go to the Yankees, if Teixeira or he could move, possibly to DH.
That would make the offer go up, right?
I think he would have
30 teams offering him a 6 year deal
by hansman1982 on Feb 16, 2011 10:30 AM CST up reply actions
the pseudo GM's
are pretty funny. Everyone is worried about the Cubs payroll. Who cares? Given the chance to add the greatest right-handed hitter in history because our arch-rival couldn’t get it done is the best possible scenario—forget about payroll. There is more coming off the books that what this deal costs. Having Pujols in the lineup everyday makes the Cubs an annual contender—period. It is a Cubs fans dream. Oh, before I forget, our owner wants to pour $200MM of his own money into Wrigley Field. I don’t think we need to worry about money for this franchise. Pujols is far from a crippling factor. If Hendry goes and signs more Fukudome’s, Miles, and Grabows, that will hurt more than the one signing of Pujols. Enjoy this Cubs fans—this is a dream actually playing out in front of our eyes.
Our owner *doesn't* want to put $200MM into Wrigley Field. That was the entire point of the public financing proposal.
MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown
No, Ricketts is offering to spend $200MM to build a restaurant/shopping building NEXT to Wrigley.
They aren’t offering to spend any money whatsoever on renovating Wrigley.
MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown
not true
read the transcript from Al’s interview that I pasted below.
we can do everything we need to do at the park and make the economic developments we need just outside the park
What are you saying? It absolutely IS true.
The Ricketts have offered to build the Triangle Building, at a cost of $200MM, while the state sells bonds to renovate Wrigley with $200MM in public funds.
This isn’t even debatable. This is a black-and-white fact of their proposal.
Tom has said, point blank, that private money for Wrigley simply isn’t available b/c it’s not a revenue generator.
And more to the point, I don’t understand what the quote you’ve linked has to do with anything. Who is the “we”? What is the “everything we need to do”? Obviously, the “economic developments just outside the park” is what the Ricketts have “offered” to build – they’re offering to build the Triangle Building.
MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown
But obviously, I agree with pretty much everything in your post.
There are worse ways to spend $30MM. Like “Dome and Bradley and Grabow”.
MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown
not true
BCB: It’s not just season ticket holders, it’s all ticket buyers, right?
TR: All ticket buyers, right. So it’s basically all tickets we sell have an amusement tax on them. Just the incremental increase from that over time is what we’re asking to keep back, which we can turn into a bond, which can be used to put dollars in the park today. And the concept is we bring the $200 million or so in from that bond, we add about $200 million from the family and then we can do everything we need to do at the park and make the economic developments we need just outside the park that not only enhance the game day experience, but raise the overall economic footprint of home games and hopefully all year round in the neighborhood.
I don't think you understand the proposal.
The $200MM that the family is proposing to spend will be used to build the Triangle Building, which will be a Ricketts-owned revenue generator.
They are not offering to spend a single cent renovating Wrigley itself.
I mean, this is all public record. It’s been explained by Al, by the press, and by the Ricketts, in rather exhaustive detail, and discussed here in thousands of posts.
I don’t think you understand the proposal.
It works like this.
The state would issue $200MM in bonds. That $200MM would be used to renovate Wrigley. Those bonds would be paid back by amusement tax monies generated over the next 35 years over and above the $16MM or so currently generated by the amusement tax.
Assuming that the marginal gain in amusement tax is insufficient to cover the $200MM in bonds – and it WILL be – the hotel tax would be used toward the balance.
The Ricketts, meanwhile, will build the Triangle Building next to Wrigley for $200MM, and own it outright. It will contain some mix of commercial properties, like a restaurant, a bar, and/or a museum, and also some offices and some parking.
MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown
taking my post out of context
I wrote, “our owner wants to pour $200MM into Wrigley.” I don’t care if it the Triangle Building or Wrigley itself. It is the entire Wrigley Complex. He is willing to spend $200MM of his own money and the point within my post was he has money to spend on this team so why are people so concerened about our payroll and how this contract would cripple the franchise? It’s pretty clear THE FAMILY has money it is willing to invest in the Cubs. Since the bid failed, it’s not like his money went away and he can’t invest it in a different capacity. They are willing to spend their own money—clearly. We are talking two different things.
Umm, its not so much that he took your quote out of context
it’s that your quote wasn’t accurate.
Pouring $200MM into Wrigley is in fact not the same as building a complex next to Wrigley.
"Oh Crap"
-Famous Last Words by General George Custer
my quote is very accurate
let me ask you this, did Ricketts in his own words say he was going to spend about $200MM of the family’s money? The answer is yes. If you have $200MM to invest on your team, do you have a financial problem where you couldn’t afford to sign the best player in baseball? The answer is no.
He said in the interview with Al, “And the concept is we bring the $200 million or so in from that bond, we add about $200 million from the family and then we can do everything we need to do at the park and make the economic developments we need just outside the park that not only enhance the game day experience.”
And how is that different from me saying “he wants to pour $200MM in Wrigley?” You are trying to nit-pick between Wrigley and the Triangle Building. I am not separating them, you are. They are one in the same as they are not going to put up a Triangle Building and do nothing to Wrigley. Something will be done to improve the entire infrastructure.
You know how you can tell the difference between Wrigley and the Triangle Building?
They play baseball in Wrigley.
The way you want to phrase it is “he wants to pour $200MM into the organization, improving existing infrastructure, and developing new infrastructure.”
Triangle Building...
Massive revenue producer. Wrigley renovations-not as much.
You’re missing the point here.
Depends on the renovations.
Take out the offices to put in more seats = additional revenues. Space for more vendors = additional revenues. Jumbotron = additional advertising revenues.
Well, you get my point. I’m not sure that the Wrigley renovation would result in a higher incremental increase in revenue than the Triangle Building would bring in. But it’s something to keep in mind.
That's why I said...
not as much. There is definitely money to be made, but it most likely can’t compare to the Triangle’s appeal. Most of the 200 M invested in the Triangle will lead to increased revenue, while a smaller portion of the 200 M for Wrigley will be generating more revenue.
It’s splitting hairs a bit, but it seems like enough if Ricketts is absolutely willing to drop his money into the Triangle while seeking outside funds for Wrigley. If they were equal, I’d assume Ricketts wouldn’t have specifically phrased the proposal the way he did.
Nope--people replying about the buildings have missed the point
my initial point is continually glossed over which was WE DO NOT HAVE TO WORRY ABOUT FINANCES WHEN OUR OWNER IN HIS OWN WORDS STATES HE IS WILLING TO SPEND $200 MILLION OF HIS OWN MONEY IN BUILDINGS. The alleged Pujols contract will not cripple this franchise and prohibit the Cubs from spending money on payroll. I really could care less about the buildings. Sorry if I was unclear as the money he is willing to spend on buildings was used a rationale that we don’t need to worry about payroll. The Cubs have plenty ’o money to pay for Pujols and not fill other needs.
You're being rather dense about this.
It’s not a question of how much money the Ricketts’ have; it is a question of how much they are willing to spend on the team itself. There have already been comments about reducing payroll and they have sought public funds for the Cubs facilities. That means that Ricketts is very budget conscious. If we’re talking about building a team around a huge contract for Pujols, then it is necessary to predict how much money we might spend on the team around him.
Of course the owners have enough money, but they aren’t the Steinbrenners who will keep throwing money around regardless. In weighing the positives and negatives of a Pujols deal, we need to consider what the ownership may or may not be willing to spend. Having money and spending money are two very different things.
nope, nice try
a simple argument — “Ricketts have money, said so in own words, willing to invest in Cubs = don’t worry about payroll enjoy the dream scenario” is too far beneath you to grasp. Jeez.
So if your wife decided to invest in the car...
buy getting it painted sparkly pink with unicorns on it instead of the bald tires and getting an alignment and new brakes, it’s OK by you because SHE PUT THE $ INTO THE CAR.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Feb 15, 2011 3:29 PM CST up reply actions
you mean
like Hendry investing in Grabow, Miles, Nady, and Bradley? :-D
I’m ok with Ricketts signing Pujols to a big fat contract for 10 years. And I feel confident Ricketts can afford it and will not cut payroll if he signed Pujols if the team need additional players. Make sense?
The Ricketts are willing to invest their money in guaranteed money making ventures
Like the Triangle Building. There’s no money in building new locker rooms under Wrigley.
GM's are in charge of Managers, not the other way around.
I disagree to a certain extent
improvements in your facilities can help attract talent. Your players need the proper facilities to train, condition, work on skills like most all the other teams currently provide to their players.
Winning baseball teams produce more revenue than lousy teams with great buildings.
Are you
just playing devil’s advocate here? You can’t really think that building locker room’s and such is going to be a good investment in the way building shops and restaurants is, can you?
Ricketts wants the state to pay for the Wrigley renovations, because Wrigley renovations aren’t a good financial investment. He tried to sell this as a “cooperative effort” but saying he would pay a similar amount for “neighborhood improvement” or something like that. But his idea of improving the neighborhood is building a bunch of Rickett’s-owned business to siphon business away from the neighborhood businesses.
If Ricketts wants to build a bunch of businesses around Wrigley that’s his right but he shouldn’t pretend like he’s doing the neighborhood a favor by doing so, and he shouldn’t be asking the city/state to help him pay for it.
DEJESUS!!!
no I'm not
I am not saying anything is better than the other. I am saying, and it is painfully obvious, that Wrigley has to be one of the worst baseball facilities in MLB - from a players perpsective. Our players deserve top notch facilities-that is all I’m saying. And if we entertain players in the future to sign with us, having better facilities may make that difference.
My reply had nothing to do with weighing which option is better. Regardless, I still believe that having the best team on the field annually will bring in the most money. Throw a couple more 75-87 seasons (only saved by the Quade run) or God-forbid 60 win seasons and this team will be in bad shape financially. Winning puts butts in seats. Butts in seats spend money. Spending money drives profits. Profits allow reinvestment to continue winning. I know you get this cyclical business model.
how did I do that?
that should not have been “strike-through” text. That’s a first.
any good business owner
knows that there are certain things that are cash sinks that you NEED to stick alot of money into, such as comfortable work chairs, good software, good bathrooms, etc…
Ricketts is merely saying hey, rather than take all this money away from Wrigley that we are making the city and state lets keep a portion of it here to make the building (that you landmarked) better, in return I will stick a bunch of money into the neighborhood…oh and by the way, since I will be attracting more fans your amusement tax will continue to get paid so in 20 years you get your principle back and you get increased revenues…
What he's saying is...
is that he will put money where he can get an identified and healthy return on his money while the public picks up the tab on the rest.
He's not putting money
into the neighborhood, he’s taking money out of the neighborhood.
DEJESUS!!!
wait - so you're saying he's part of the "Blue Hand"? ;-)
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
well in order to build those businesses
outside of the triangle building he would have to get people to sell their land, unless there is alot of open space around wrigley that I missed the last time I was there
by hansman1982 on Feb 16, 2011 10:31 AM CST up reply actions
whatever, smartass
you are so friggin’ smart, you can understand something so simple. Go back to quantum physics, eisntein.
Namecalling not appreciated by either of you.
Knock it off.
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Well, either way...
… this wasn’t headed in the right direction.
Check out Chicago sports coverage at SB Nation Chicago
I was being serious...
I didn’t mean to offend you. In your last post, you said you were enjoying a dream scenario. That’s why I wrote that I understood. No harm in that.
I don't care about the Ricketts' money, I care that if Ricketts says he'll only spend
a certain amount and then spends 20% of that at one position, it doesn’t leave flexibility to build a decent team. If he wants to increase payroll then that’s a different matter. I realize money is coming off the books but I think even with the great Albert in the lineup, the Cubs will want someone to stand down at third. If you put say, a cheap Josh Vitters down there at the other corner infield position, you wipe away a good chunk of Albert’s production by having a below average player at a position you need a major offensive contribution from.
Someone let Josh Vitters know he'll be a below average 3B...
He’s 22, let’s not make assumptions based on what fits your story. Also, you have no idea what the Cubs payroll will look like over the next 10 years, so let’s leave the business side of this up to the people who actually know/see the business plan, shall we?
Making wild assumptions really does no good – and that goes for both directions, not just yours.
No assumption was made. I used Vitters because he'd be cheap.
Do you see any other cheap alternatives in the minor league system at third?
And leaving the business side to just those with actual knowledge of the business plan? Is there a thread with just the Ricketts posting? I’d love to know what they think.
All I know is that they don’t seem keen on spending like the Red Sox and Yankees so it doesn’t take intimate knowledge of a business plan to make certain assumptions. Sort of the fun of this whole sports blogging thing.
Its been one year!!!!
I’d also say with this…
a cheap Josh Vitters down there at the other corner infield position, you wipe away a good chunk of Albert’s production by having a below average player at a position you need a major offensive contribution from.
You make the assumption that Vitters would be the one offering below average offensive contributions.
It just gets annoying to see such pessimism on a topic (Ricketts’ spending habits) when Ricketts hasn’t even been given a year before he’s called cheap.
I don't think where the Cubs are payroll-wise (around $130 MIllion?) is cheap.
It’s just that if you want to give $30 Million to one guy and only have $100 Million left for the other 24, you’d best have some good, young cheap talent to fill a lot of those spots.
That’s the reason I don’t want them to sign Pujols if they aren’t willing to raise payroll.
Since there are no final 2011 contract numbers out yet, I'll base this off of 2010 opening day numbers.
Assuming the Cubs have a payroll set at 130M, and sign Pujols for 30M (which to note, I think the payroll number is a little low and the signing number is a little high), that leaves the Cubs with 100M to sign 24 players.
That 100M left to fill the 24 spots would still give them the 9th highest amount left to spend in baseball, and they’d already have the best hitter in the game on their team.
I know it’s not that simple, but to argue that it’d be hard to work with Pujols and “only” 100M to sign 24 players is crazy.
Well, for the first three years of the Pujols contract, no doubt among his most
productive years with the Cubs, you can also write off another $18 Million more for Soriano. So now you’ve got $82 Million for 23 players. Subtract more for the Dempsters, Garzas, Marmols etc. and I think you can see that it does become problematic pretty quickly.
Again, I don’t say the Cubs are cheap, just that it would be difficult to sign Pujols, stick to the current payroll and stay competitive.
The argument against having a below average player?
Look at what Pujols did in STL for the first 8/9 years there, before Holliday. Scott Rolen, okay. he was there from part of 02-07. He wasn’t exceptional. He hit .286 which is very nice but averaged close to 20 HR’s a year.
The Cards made it to the WS with Pujols in 2004 and 2006.
In 2004 Rolen hit .314 had 34 homers, 124 RBIs and an OPS of 1.007
In 2006 Rolen hit .296 had 22 homers, 95 RBIs and an OPS of .887
I think it’s safe to say that Rolen was absolutely exceptional in ‘04 and pretty good on that mediocre WS winner in ’06. Albert, great as he is, can’t go to the series on his own.
been saying this for a while
http://www.bleedcubbieblue.com/2010/5/8/1464019/what-differentiates-the-cubs-from
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by DartmouthCubsFan on Feb 15, 2011 9:22 AM CST reply actions
clap, clap, clap, clap
is that what you’re looking for?
DEJESUS!!!
yes
specifically from you
my day is complete now.
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by DartmouthCubsFan on Feb 15, 2011 1:58 PM CST up reply actions
I'd rather see more money up front
for several years and defer some for after retirement.
A straight $27.5M / year is really going to be hard to swallow in years 8, 9 & 10.
Just win the next game...!
How about we offer something like this
How about 30M/year 6 years guaranteed. IF in years 4/5/6 he gets a total of 1500 plate appearances, his years 7/8 become guaranteed. Then if in years 7/8 a total of 1000 plate appearances is met, years 9/10 become guaranteed.
Total breakdown:
2012-2017=30MM
2018=27.5MM
2019=25MM
2020=22.5MM
2021=20MM
HR goals=25MM total
Total would be the 275MM he is looking for with 25MM bonus for reaching HR goals. Totaling 300MM at this point. I believe would be fair with easy to meet the plate appearances if he’s healthy. (He’s never had a season of less than 634 plate appearances)
Are we trying to sign him?
We will probably have to give him more years than would be ideal. I’m sure he’s already turned down that type of deal from the Cardinals.
uber's propsoal
is a 10 year deal
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by DartmouthCubsFan on Feb 15, 2011 10:24 AM CST up reply actions
I don't think players really like vesting options
Usually if they meet the requirements for the vesting options they would be able to get that on the open market anyways. I still think that whatever team signs Pujols had better be prepared to give more years than would be ideal.
Players may not like vesting options.
But you have to think when year 6 is over he’ll be 38 on when the season starts in 2018. My idea is a real lax requirement. He’ll need 1500 plate appearances from year 4/5/6. That would require him to get plate appearances a game in 125 games each of those years. If he stays somewhat healthy, it’s virtually his 10 year deal overall. He’s only played less than 150 games once in his career, and that was 143 games with 634 plate appearances. He averages 678 plate appearances a season. In my eyes, he’s a lock for the vesting options.
by ubercubsfan on Feb 15, 2011 10:54 AM CST up reply actions
If it's so easy to meet, why not just give him the 10 years?
My point was I think someone will give him 8-10 years. Messing around with vesting options (no matter how easy to reach) probably won’t be enough to get the deal done.
Usually if you guaranteeing years the total amount goes down with more years.
My proposal gives him the money he is seeking if he stays moderately healthy and plays 125-140 games a year in years 2015-2019. The reason for the vesting options is a just in case he blows out his elbow on the 4/5/6/7/8 years it gives the team a way out. 180MM/6yr is nothing to laugh at either.
by ubercubsfan on Feb 15, 2011 11:23 AM CST up reply actions
Also, there aren't many vesting options that gives you 2 years at a time either.
by ubercubsfan on Feb 15, 2011 11:25 AM CST up reply actions
Actually the 3 years is worse
Because if he has a major injury in either one of the three years he loses his guaranteed money.
Pujols with 2 normal seasons will be around or over 1300 plate appearances.
Then 200PA at 4AB a game would be about 50 games. So short of him losing an entire season, he will make that first vesting option for years 7/8.
by ubercubsfan on Feb 15, 2011 11:30 AM CST up reply actions
Well that's up to him, isn't it?
If another team in the NL wants to offer him a straight 275-300MM/10yr deal, that’s on them. But I don’t know if that will happen from any team in the NL. An AL team might be willing to do that.
by ubercubsfan on Feb 15, 2011 11:33 AM CST up reply actions
He's apparently already turned that down from the Cardinals
Albert wants a contract for the rest of his baseball lifetime. He’ll probably get it from someone.
Very sensible...
the problem is vainglory and pride: Lozano wants to take the belt from Boras; Pujols wants a contract that reflects his standing as the best in baseball. ARod has his money guaranteed, therefore Pujols wants his money guaranteed.
Sign Rodrigo Lopez!!!
Well if the NL had the DH it would be easier to give the man more guaranteed money.
ARod can be put in the DH when he gets older, not so with Pujols if he stays in the NL. So teams will look at that when they give him money.
by ubercubsfan on Feb 15, 2011 11:27 AM CST up reply actions
the only problem
is that the yanks have too many DH guys on their roster…ESPN was actually saying that the Yanks were going to sign him…I have begun to hate the ESPNFL network
No doubt the Players Association is also putting the screws to him
to hit the market for the general well-being of the union brotherhood
You guys realize that this entire Pujols contract thing...
is really just one gigantic elaborate troll on the entire Cub’s fan-base right?
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Feb 15, 2011 11:13 AM CST reply actions
what exactly does a gigantic elaborate troll look like? Picture please, SWL...
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
...

As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Feb 15, 2011 12:40 PM CST up reply actions 2 recs
He has a shiny head
"A dream you dream alone is only a dream. A dream you dream together is reality." John Lennon
"My favorite food is Macaroni and Cheese, from the blue box." Geovany Soto
Couldn't have said it better myself, SWL
It’s now become borderline pathetic.
"I think part of a best friend's job should be to immediately clear your computer history if you die." - Anonymous
I say it doesn't happen...
If St. Louis wanted to keep Albert this would have been done months ago with no
hoopla and no speculation. Just a report all over the place that St. Louis opened
the vault and backed the truck up.
I would LOVE to see him in Cubbie Blue next season… Do I think it’ll happen…
50/50…
Cubs fans, myself included have said for a long time we need a SUPER STAR…
Well here he is and he’s gonna be a FA at the end of the season.
Here’s the kicker… if you WANT a super star you have to PAY him a super star
salary. There’s no getting around it… no deal you can make especially for a FA
super star.
We have a ton of cash coming free at the end of the year and honestly I wanna
see them (Ricketts and company) open the vault and get him here. He is the
premier FA next year and the greatest active player today and probably the
greatest 1st basemen ever. A sure fire first ballot HoF’er and by all accounts a
great guy in and out of the club house.
R.I.P. Ronnie Santo... you will be missed...
He's not signing tomorrow
It’s just not happening. Now maybe the Cardinals come to him in two weeks and say “We know about your deadline, but will you really turn down ten years and $280 million?” and Pujols will throw out his deadline. But it’s not getting done by tomorrow.
by Josh Timmers on Feb 15, 2011 2:59 PM CST up reply actions
I tend to think the same thing...
…and yet, what I don’t get is, if they’re really not close to a deal, then what was the point of extending the last deadline by 24 hours? I mean, to me that says that they’re very close and are just working out a few details.
At any rate, I still don’t see any way he’s leaving the Cardinals.
by bluekoolaide on Feb 15, 2011 3:54 PM CST up reply actions
Extension
The deadline was extended so it wouldn’t be as much of a distraction to Stan Musial’s award celebration.
very true
I just think come tomorrow morning the Cards GM and owner will wake up and say, is today the day we piss off our fans over $15 mil a year (figure you have to pay a good 1bman around $15 million anyway), damnit Big Al is worth it…
I think I'm
ok either way. If St Louis signs him they are going to hamstring their budget for the next decade. If they don’t, chances are we get him, and our team should have more resources to keep a competitive team around him, and St Louis can be bitter forever the way Boston is about Babe Ruth.
DEJESUS!!!
That's where I am now
At first the idea of a 10 yr/30m contract seemed outrageous. But the more I thought about it, the more it makes sense. The Cubs have to at least bid on Pujols. Make the Cardinals pay for the nose to keep him. I would rather sign Pujols for $30m than miss out on Pujols and end up paying Fielder $20m + a 3rd or 4th starter $10m.
When the Cardinal announce that Holiday and Carpenter agreed to rework their contracts so that the team could resign Albert...
everyone will ohh and ahh.
What are the chances Soriano and Z agree to do something similar?
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Feb 15, 2011 5:34 PM CST up reply actions
Oh goodie...
now about my original question…
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Feb 15, 2011 5:57 PM CST up reply actions
Howsabout Albert rework his contract so the Cards can resign Albert?
Don’t get me wrong – I’m 100% on the Sign Albert bandwagon should he become available, but I always have to laugh when I hear about players offering to rework their contracts to free up money. Wouldn’t be a need for that if the desired player wasn’t asking for so much money….
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
Albert just wants to get paid what he thinks he is worth
dont you do the same with your career?
by hansman1982 on Feb 16, 2011 10:33 AM CST up reply actions
Sure
I think my point was kinda buried and/or not very clear. Let me try again.
Bottom line: if the team/player/city situation is such that everyone is one big happy family and seriously want to work something out so everybody stays together for the rest of their careers and kitten and rainbow bobbleheads are given out to all the fans… well, then it shouldn’t be just the Carpenters and Hollidays of the world willing to rework their deals – the Pujols and the owners of the world ought to be adjusting their demands/offers as well. Share the love? Then share the “pain” as well.
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
I understand
and my angst is mostly with the people in STL that are getting angry about Pujols when he said that it wasnt about the money – of course it is, you want to get paid what you think you are worth and unfortunately ARod set the bar pretty high and Pujols is worth more than ARod was
But that's the creedo of the MLPBA
players going for the max. Reworking a deal (didn’t Demp do that a couple years ago?) just pushes monies out on some deferral schedule, perhaps an interest payment or two and makes the near term annual costs lower.
95% of the players go for the max. Sure, we’ll see the “hometown” discount or something like that. But as long as the CBA is structured like it is and as long as the higher-ups of the MLBPA are what they are, this will continue.
Just win the next game...!
Ninety
…and I’ll take the under.
Announcement will come just before noon time Eastern.
Just win the next game...!
Don't know if it's been mentioned, but...
Tony La Russa said again Albert feeling pressure from union. Not just arm twisting. “Dropping an anvil on his back thru roof of his house.”
what a ****
That's what unions do for their members....
besides tell them when to stop working.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Feb 15, 2011 4:32 PM CST up reply actions
IF IF IF IF IF IF IF
this is a true leak from inside the Cubs org, can that be considered tampering?
Chronologically inept since 2060
Q: Why did Chuck Norris cross the road?
A: Ditka
Ditka's mustache can block a Chuck Norris round house
It didn't come from the Cubs
but I suppose if it could be proven that someone with the Cubs said it, then yes.
by Josh Timmers on Feb 15, 2011 6:38 PM CST up reply actions
Comcast just said
That the Cardinals came to Pujols with an offer for 8 years for just under $30M per. I’m not sure what “just under $30M” exactly means, but I think that $29M might be a better number.
If that’s really the case, there are only two reasons that I can think of as to why he won’t sign:
1) He is getting pressure from the union to squeeze every ounce of blood from this stone
2) He really doesn’t want to be a Cardinal anymore.
My prediction is more 1 than 2. I say that the Cards increase their offer a bit by Thursday at 12:00 EST (New deadline) and Pujols will remain a Card until the day he retires.
by jerry morales rules on Feb 15, 2011 6:54 PM CST reply actions
pujols wants to say that he makes more money than arod
He's my Hossa
HO-HO-HO-HO-HOSSA
by jesus christos on Feb 15, 2011 7:03 PM CST up reply actions
This union stuff is a red herring
The point is he wants to make more than A-Rod.
by Josh Timmers on Feb 15, 2011 7:17 PM CST up reply actions
That might not be possible though
How much more than this is he going to get in FA? I guess that’s the question he has to ask himself. He has a public profile to worry about as well. That is worth money too. How much of an ass is he going to look like if he gets only a bit more in FA than StL offered him?
I think he’s going to settle (settle???) with StL here. They’ll come up a bit. In the end, the risk that his public profile can go bad won’t be worth just the few million more than he can get in FA.
Somewhere, Prince Fielder is smiling, while eating a bag of Oreos.
by jerry morales rules on Feb 15, 2011 7:40 PM CST up reply actions
a friend who is a Cardinals fan is saying that Pujols is pissing off many fans
he paraded around about wanting to be a Cardinal for life, following in the footsteps of Stan Musial, and wants to be on a competitive team, and now is asking for more money that they can likely afford
Chronologically inept since 2060
Q: Why did Chuck Norris cross the road?
A: Ditka
Ditka's mustache can block a Chuck Norris round house
At this point, I hope he signs with StL
Let them deal with that contract and know that one bad slide into a bag and they’re irrelevant for the remainder of the deal.
If Pujols and his agents turn StL down, they are going “All In” on what they think is going to be the actions of Tom Ricketts. Ricketts has no track record on signings like this. None. If Tom Ricketts is thinking to himself, “I just paid $900m for a baseball team, I’ve committed $200M to developments. There is no way I’m gong to pay one player $300M even if it is Pujols.”, they are screwed.
Everybody hates the Miami Heat now and they didn’t do anything wrong. This situation is starting to resemble that.
by jerry morales rules on Feb 15, 2011 8:04 PM CST up reply actions
Entirely different from the Heat...
and Pujols and his agents are not going “all in” on Ricketts. There will be other suitors, to be sure.
Who?
But better yet, who at that price level? By my math, there have been only 2 organizations that have signed a guy to over a $200M contract, the Yankees and the Rangers, neither of which is in on this round.
Is Pujols $116M better than Mauer? $120M better than Teixeira?
I don’t blame any organization to be getting scared of heights after $200M and Pujols and his agents are looking way past that. Boston has a 1bman, The Mets and Dodgers could be in a world of financial mess. The White Sox are out. Angels? Moreno hasn’t shown the capacity for a deal like this. He’s less likely than Ricketts. Philadelphia is out.
Who’s left? And, seriously, who’s left at the over $200M range? That is really starting to mess with personal fortunes of the individual owners at that point.
by jerry morales rules on Feb 15, 2011 8:25 PM CST up reply actions
As you mention...
there aren’t any perfect suitors. But the Mets, Dodgers, and Angels will certainly explore the option. IIRC, Gonzalez hasn’t been signed to an extension but I’m not positive there. And I would never count out the Yankees, no matter the cost. The Giants might also be in the mix.
And hitting free agency doesn’t mean Pujols can’t resign with StL for the contract they’re offering now.
Gonzalez has not signed
but he will. We’ll see how much.
I don’t doubt that teams will sniff around Pujols, but it’s hard to see how any of the teams mentioned would be willing to fork out over $200M for anyone. There simply is no track record of it. The Giants may be on the list, they’ve surprised in the past, but if Zito is still there and then knowing that Posey and the pitchers are going to be asking for a lot of cash themselves, I don’t see it.
If Ricketts bows out, who’s to say that the offer the Cardinals make now would still be there? Without the threat of the Cubs, the Cards wil lmost certainly take the offer off the table. They’d be stupid if they didn’t.
I’m confident in the assumption that this whole market is dependent upon what Ricketts might or might not do. If Pujols is getting offered $240M, he better understand what he’s doing if he turns that down. He very well might not get that chance again.
by jerry morales rules on Feb 15, 2011 9:01 PM CST up reply actions
so what you're saying is a $240M bird in the hand is worth... ;-)
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
could boston be waiting
to offer a signable deal to Gonzalez based on what happens with Pujols? I really really hope they are, I would take Gonzalez and his contract over Pujols in a minute
by hansman1982 on Feb 16, 2011 10:36 AM CST up reply actions
My guess is that Gonzalez is holding out so he
can get Pujols kind of money.
well then
Gonzalez and Pujols will hit the market next year in your scenario – in which case I want Gonzo
by hansman1982 on Feb 16, 2011 11:44 AM CST up reply actions
I'm guessing Gonzalez is more untouchable than Pujols at this point.
He’s about to be on the Red Sox for life. I’m just thinking he isn’t signing the extension till next off-season when Pujols drives the market up.
there are many reasons why people hate the heat
He's my Hossa
HO-HO-HO-HO-HOSSA
by jesus christos on Feb 15, 2011 8:20 PM CST up reply actions
That's true
but it’s mostly because they ended up with LeBron and, in that situation, they didn’t do anything wrong.
by jerry morales rules on Feb 15, 2011 8:26 PM CST up reply actions
i think more people hate LeBron
and he happens to wear a Heat jersey
Chronologically inept since 2060
Q: Why did Chuck Norris cross the road?
A: Ditka
Ditka's mustache can block a Chuck Norris round house
Fair enough
but at what point does Pujols public profile become toxic like LeBron’s? Perhaps it won’t ever become THAT toxic, but it might get toxic. A year ago at this time, LeBron was well-liked by the nation.
by jerry morales rules on Feb 15, 2011 8:43 PM CST up reply actions
a year ago lebron didnt host an hour long ego fest on ESPN
He's my Hossa
HO-HO-HO-HO-HOSSA
by jesus christos on Feb 15, 2011 8:45 PM CST up reply actions
We can really get stuck in the details of an analogy like this
I’ll admit it’s not perfect.
However, Pujols could really come out looking like an ass through all of this. That is not where they want to be.
by jerry morales rules on Feb 15, 2011 8:48 PM CST up reply actions
or hold a bash in Vegas and so on
Pujols might be looking to get paid big time, but he isnt a dumb ass who will act a fool in the process. Pujols also is not walking out on his home town team from childhood
The King James “Las Vegas Coverup”: Was It Really Neccesary?
LeBron James parties in Vegas . . . and ESPN yanks the story
Chronologically inept since 2060
Q: Why did Chuck Norris cross the road?
A: Ditka
Ditka's mustache can block a Chuck Norris round house
I don't recall a massive backlash against the Rangers when A-Rod signed there
A huge reason that an issue arose from the Heat hoopla is because LeBron and Bosh “chickened out,” and decided they needed to join with another superstar (Wade) to win championships. Pujols joining a past his prime Soriano and an aging Ramirez (barring an opt out) isn’t creating a “super team,” like the LeBron, Bosh, and Wade did.
GM's are in charge of Managers, not the other way around.
But the difference is that Seattle
was never in on the bidding when he went to TX. They didn’t offer him a “fair” deal. If this report turns out to be true, StL would have offered him a “fair” deal and he would have turned it down for the chance to get at most 25% more – at most, and much of that is because of 2 extra years.
I’ll admit, it’s not a great analogy if you get too far into it. My point is simply that he could very easily become tainted through this process. If he turns StL down and they offer him $240M, that;s a huge step in that direction.
by jerry morales rules on Feb 15, 2011 10:39 PM CST up reply actions
The Heatles? pfft......makes me sick
"A dream you dream alone is only a dream. A dream you dream together is reality." John Lennon
"My favorite food is Macaroni and Cheese, from the blue box." Geovany Soto
didn't Albert cut the cards a break on his last deal?
"Playoffs?!" -Jim Mora
by Castro Por Presidente on Feb 16, 2011 4:36 AM CST up reply actions
absolutely not...
the cardinals gave him 108 million as a 3rd year player…not a discount at all. It turned out to be a great deal for the Cardinals, but that was absolutely top dollar for a player of his service time.
The Cardinals should have tried to renogatiate his deal about 3 years ago…they could’ve given him a 10 year deal at that time that would’ve ran until he was 38.
Of course, there have been ongoing concerns with both his foot and elbow like the past 3 offseasons so I can why they would want to see how that played out. If I recall correctly it was recommended that he have Tommy John surgery, but instead he just had some bone spurs removed.
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Feb 16, 2011 6:30 PM CST up reply actions
You can say
he didn’t give the Cardinal a break and you might be right. But the issue isn’t whether or not it’s true. The issue is whether Albert thinks it’s true.
by Josh Timmers on Feb 16, 2011 6:32 PM CST up reply actions
I wonder if the Cubs are willing to compete against other teams
to sign Pujols and/or Fielder.
"A dream you dream alone is only a dream. A dream you dream together is reality." John Lennon
"My favorite food is Macaroni and Cheese, from the blue box." Geovany Soto
i hope the Cubs get Fielder and Pujols is stuck with a 5 year $100M deal
and dont get me wrong, I would love to be stuck like that as well
Chronologically inept since 2060
Q: Why did Chuck Norris cross the road?
A: Ditka
Ditka's mustache can block a Chuck Norris round house
The Cubs have plenty of time to worry about that
after they win the World Series ;)
"A dream you dream alone is only a dream. A dream you dream together is reality." John Lennon
"My favorite food is Macaroni and Cheese, from the blue box." Geovany Soto
Tim Brown tweet
Source close to Pujols camp: Reports of a Cardinals offer today to Pujols is, “inaccurate, reckless and outrageous.”
"A dream you dream alone is only a dream. A dream you dream together is reality." John Lennon
"My favorite food is Macaroni and Cheese, from the blue box." Geovany Soto
If that's true
then the Cardinals are leaking lies to make Pujols look bad. That’s not likely to make him happy.
by Josh Timmers on Feb 15, 2011 10:02 PM CST up reply actions
I'm officially sold on Pujols
At first I was being too conservative, worrying the contract could be the second coming of Soriano.
Then I took another glance at my season ticket invoice.
Sorry, but if the Cubs want to continue charging some of the highest ticket prices in MLB, they need to start acting like the other top teams, specifically the Red Sox and Yankees. They need to make a serious play for this guy if he hits the open market.
Next offseason, Ricketts will be making one of two statements. Either he allows Hendry to spend all that money on guys who will make a difference, and lets the league know that they are, indeed, serious about winning. Or he could cut payroll even more, essentially giving the finger to some of the most loyal fans in sports. At that point, I would give the finger right back and tell them where to shove their Daily Plan. I think I got offered tickets at a great time. Next offseason will tell us everything we need to know about the Ricketts family and their long-term plans for the organization.
Unfortunately
it looks like the Ricketts care more about how clean the ballpark is then the actual product on the field.
Just look at his comment in the interview:
I think we use it as just how indicative of how powerful an attraction Wrigley is from a tourism standpoint. And you know as well as anyone, you can be sitting next to someone from Ohio or Iowa.
I don’t know why, but I get a feeling that if the ballpark is clean and people are still buying tickets, Ricketts really doesn’t care. I mean every single major action or decision that’s been made since he’s been in charge has been about fixing the ballpark, getting better facilities, blah, blah, blah. It gets annoying. He says the same crap about building through the draft, player development, yet the Cubs were one of the bottom spenders in the draft last year and just traded away three of their top prospects for a pitcher who you could argue isn’t better than anything they had. . I’ll still give him time before I officially declare him a failure.
I don't know what the Ricketts will do if Pujols hits the FA market
But it will go a long way in judging the ownership group, for better or worse.
GM's are in charge of Managers, not the other way around.
Seriously?
Building better facilities for players is KEY in contributing to better player development and fitness. Fixing a 100 year old building to ensure it can stand for another 50 is extremely important – just like the Red Sox did with Fenway. The draft money for 2010 was already set in the business plan and wasn’t expected to be changed by Ricketts, that kind of stuff doesn’t just happen in big businesses.
People seem to forget that the Cubs are a business, and things don’t change overnight in a multi million dollar business. It takes years to change the direction and set up proper business plans. The only thing that is getting annoying, are posts like this that expect instant gratification and are now damning the new owner for things he can’t change YET.
I don't know
I haven’t seen anything that suggests the Ricketts are going to spend large amounts of money on the team. They signed a couple of terrible latin players, one who couldn’t handle the Caribbean league, and haven’t landed any big foreign prospects. I know its been only about a year since his family has been in total control, but nothing he’s done has made me convinced he’s going to spend on the team and player development.
From ticket prices to asking the public for $200MM to renovate an ancient, urine-soaked ballpark, what exactly has he done that would instill confidence that he’s going to be a good owner? I just haven’t seen anything that would lead me to believe, “wow, thank god we have the Ricketts running the team.” He’s slashed payroll, asked for $200MM in public money in a crappy economy to renovate a freaking baseball stadium, and frozen ticket prices, fantastic. Hooray, he’s going to spend a ton of money upgrading the facilities from shitty to reasonable, and a bunch of players are going to come here. Color me pessimistic.
by Bad Midget on Feb 16, 2011 3:26 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
It's also Albert Pujols
If you can, you do what you can to get a player like that. Players like Pujols don’t come around very often on the free agent market. If the Cubs don’t attempt to go after Pujols as a free agent, then you can criticize ownership all you want.
RIP Ronnie James Dio (July 10, 1942 - May 16, 2010) and Ron Santo (February 25, 1940-December 2, 2010).
He gave Szczr 1.5 million to stay with the Cubs...
They also came out and said next year they would increase the amount of money spent in the draft.
They’ve continued to sign international players and are upgrading their facilities in the DR to be some of the best in baseball.
Look, I’m sorry they didn’t go way over slot in the 2010 draft, but those things were most likely set in an approved budget long before Ricketts took over the team. You also can’t knock him for wanting to upgrade Wrigley – can you imagine if he came in and after “year one” decided to build a stadium in the burbs? The hatred would be palpable. Now, I understand Wrigley isn’t everyones cup of tea, but for many of the fans, it’s a special special place. As for the public money to renovate it, I wont agree or disagree with you, as I don’t pretend to dabble in politics.
He also has hardly “slashed” payroll. He’s letting contracts fall off during a year there was absolutely no reason to break the bank. The reason the Cubs are in this mess in the first place is breaking the bank when there was no one worth doing so for.
Just my 2 cents – you don’t have to agree, but there is more to the story than you’re looking at.
by bdlugz on Feb 16, 2011 4:15 PM CST up reply actions 6 recs
I think you have hit the nail on the head here.
Rec’d.
Check out Chicago sports coverage at SB Nation Chicago
Thanks for the response
Like I said before, I’m not going to declare him a failure after just one year. It’s just more a feel I get. All I hear about from the Ricketts is the Wrigley experience, the atmosphere, the bleachers, nothing about actually having a concrete plan. Maybe he changes, who knows. All I know is that he hasn’t actually done anything that has instilled confidence in me.
by Bad Midget on Feb 16, 2011 4:41 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
Maybe "he" changes????
Do you really think that Tom Ricketts doesn’t have a plan?
Is he supposed to have regular status meetings with you to instill the confidence you want? Listen, it’s been one year. One freaking year. I’m not trying to defend Ricketts, but to pass any sort of judgement that you may know the direction he’s taking the team or to say that whatever he’s doing is not effective is really silly.
by jerry morales rules on Feb 16, 2011 5:18 PM CST up reply actions 4 recs
He hasn’t done anything that would lead me to believe he has a plan that will work. Almost every move he’s made has been a massive failure in my book.
by Bad Midget on Feb 16, 2011 5:22 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
Please see my post above?
And what was a single “massive failure” that Ricketts was responsible for? And don’t say the draft, because as I stated, that was likely in the budget long before Ricketts took over the team.
Reasons that I stated above
The Ridiculous proposal for $200MM in public money to renovate a baseball stadium, the egregious ticket prices, the draft—please don’t tell me picking a 6th round talent in the first round is defensible. The overall lack of urgency, the reality show, Todd Ricketts. Claiming to want to rebuild yet trading away three top prospects for a pitcher who was nothing better than what they already had. Other than that, The Ticketts errrrrr Ricketts have been great.
by Bad Midget on Feb 16, 2011 6:25 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
Then we'll agree to disagree...
I think you’re picking and choosing some pretty ridiculous points of contention, but to each their own.
You can do whatever you want, I'm not going to try and change your mind...
because personally, I just don’t care enough. Do I think it’s crazy that businesses get to use public money to upgrade facilities? Yeah, pretty much. But have dozens of other teams done exactly what the Cubs are looking to do? You bet.
Do two wrongs make a right? No, but you can’t blame them for at least asking.
To be fair...
Tom isn’t the one running TAE. That’s Joe’s thing.
Are you the same person as your father?
I met Tom several times before he owned the Cubs and he's every bit
the anti-taxer his dad is. He is a fundamentalist Friedmanite from the U of C’s business school.
I've simply got to ask...
How in a few meetings with Tom Ricketts you were able to understand his fiscal beliefs with such confidence you can claim something like this?
We met a few times at a bar in Evanston with mutual friends.
I got into it with Tom (good natured – lots of beer was consumed) As an old Keynesian econ major I always enjoy a good debate with U of C business school grads. I’m not a fan of Milton Friedman and most of them adore him.
What is the date...
that other clubs can negotiate with FA’s this year? Is it known yet, or does it depend on the exact day that the WS ends?
It looks like neither the extension to the deadline
nor the proposed deal from StL was truthful. So, I guess we’re back to where we were yesterday morning.
by jerry morales rules on Feb 16, 2011 9:49 AM CST reply actions
In order
1) LaRussa is a jackhole
2) Cards were stupid to give Holliday that money without making sure Albert was OK
3) Even if deadline passes, Cards will still have inside track to re-sign him after season
4) I think Handy Manny and Kelly the Hardware Store Owner are doing it
"It's all in the game, yo"
by Worf on Feb 16, 2011 11:02 AM CST reply actions 1 recs
Huh? Doing what?
"I think part of a best friend's job should be to immediately clear your computer history if you die." - Anonymous
I tried...I couldn't concentrate because of the pictures.
"I think part of a best friend's job should be to immediately clear your computer history if you die." - Anonymous
I agree with 2, 3, 4
and dont care about 1
this shows that eyeing the short term prize over long term planning can blind even the best of organizations…
by hansman1982 on Feb 16, 2011 11:46 AM CST up reply actions
On #4
Have you ever seen Manny pay Kelly for anything? How do you think she gets paid?
"Easy on the words, brother,'' Quade said.
by RiskyBusiness on Feb 16, 2011 1:02 PM CST up reply actions
Workbench
"Easy on the words, brother,'' Quade said.
by RiskyBusiness on Feb 16, 2011 1:35 PM CST up reply actions
Kelly is kinda hot though
Mayor Rosa looks like she could teach a young man a thing or 12 abot life too.
"It's all in the game, yo"
And the Dance Instructor is smokin
Samba!
"Easy on the words, brother,'' Quade said.
by RiskyBusiness on Feb 16, 2011 1:55 PM CST up reply actions
Attention...Attention please...
it is now past noon EST… The deadline has come…and gone. ALL Pujols comments must now cease. Tampering on BCB will NOT be tolerated. You can still wear your “I heart Albert” t-shirts, but, contract talk must stop. Further contract talk will resume again 5 days after the final out of the 2011 World Series. You’ll know, too…it’ll start with the $350M the Yankees will throw out there at the onset. Thank you for your time. I now return you to your favorite “Koyie Hill Rocks” thread. Good day.
"I think part of a best friend's job should be to immediately clear your computer history if you die." - Anonymous
I notice you posted this right at noon sharp.
Was that intentional?
Here are my thoughts on the whole matter, as I posted at SB Nation Chicago.
(And no, Easy Ed, it won’t be the Yankees.)
Check out Chicago sports coverage at SB Nation Chicago
Actually, noon my time is 1 hour past the deadline...
This is getting as bad as the LeBron BS last summer and we still have 8 1/2 months to go yet. I commend you, Al, on the “No More Pujols Posts” post. He’s the enemy for right now and thus should be treated as such…but, that’s just me.
"I think part of a best friend's job should be to immediately clear your computer history if you die." - Anonymous
That's why this should be the all-purpose post.
For now, anyway.
Check out Chicago sports coverage at SB Nation Chicago
Maybe...
but this Pujolmania is just getting started. His FA is 8-9 months away and already people need bibs to catch the drool.
"I think part of a best friend's job should be to immediately clear your computer history if you die." - Anonymous
Big difference though is that I don't see Albert contributing to any of the mania that will ensue
LeBron certainly did his part in stoking the fires, but for Albert, I believe the play’s the thing – he’s gonna let his bat do the talking.
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
I hope he stops talking to the media.
That will at least slow this frenzy down a little.
Check out Chicago sports coverage at SB Nation Chicago
It will take more than
years for us to get over Pujols in a Cubs uni. Maybe a WS title or 2.
We got over Maddux in a Braves uniform
But of course, we all blamed Larry Himes from the beginning.
by Josh Timmers on Feb 16, 2011 10:20 PM CST up reply actions
Imagine if he spent
the 1st decade of his career there…..
What was it that Pujols said about Wrigley...
…and its facilities? I don’t remember hearing those comments.
"I always tell the truth -- Even when I lie" -- Tony Montana
Guess I blew my prediction the announcement
would come between 10:30 and noon.
So now I’ll go out on a limb and say they will still get something done and it’ll be before any player can hit FA.
No way can the Red Birds let this guy go. Just can’t see it.
Just win the next game...!
I think he hits FA for all of about 10 seconds
Unless they blow him out of the water mid-season, I think he will hold to his promise to not sign until after the season.
But it can still be a done deal.
"It's all in the game, yo"
I hear that Pujols is looking to leave baseball after this year
With lance Armstrong going into Retirement 2.0, Pujols thinks he has a great chance to win multiple Tour de France races.
He does have the thighs for the alpine climbs.
"Easy on the words, brother,'' Quade said.
Now that Pujols is going to test the Free Agent market
I think there should be a Front page poll on predictions where he will sign.
We're forgetting about Mark DeRosa
RIP Ronnie James Dio (July 10, 1942 - May 16, 2010) and Ron Santo (February 25, 1940-December 2, 2010).
for the win
Chronologically inept since 2060
Q: Why did Chuck Norris cross the road?
A: Ditka
Ditka's mustache can block a Chuck Norris round house
I'm all for that.
Please do start it at your earliest convenience.
"I'm not a broadcaster! I'm me!"--Ron Santo
Its interesting
listening to all the MLB analyst’s out there. They are about as mixed as the BCBers. Some say he wiil stay, some say he will go. Some say the cubs will easily swoop in, some say the cubs new ownership can’t afford him. While it is all interesting, if the people that do this for a living cant agreee, then you know this will be a season long debate here, or until he signs somewhere.
As much attention as this has gotten, I find it hard to believe it will just go away for Albert until the end of the season. Heck, everybody KNEW CC was leaving the brewers, and still that was a topic that kept coming up.
"Baseball is ninety percent mental. The other half is physical." -Yogi Berra
Al, can you post a "How Many Days Until Free Agency Begins" countdown clock on the right sidebar?
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
Awww Geeee Whizzz............
If the Cubs still have a chance, no matter how small, it’s still Go Cubs, damn the math and pass the KoolAid.
This thing has been very tough on the poor cats over at Viva El Birdos
Some guy is saying if Pujols signs with us that he will be booed at every home game for the rest of his career? Because there are always lots of Cards fans at every Cubs home game.
Guess booing your greatest player every game for the rest of their career is what makes you the “best fans in baseball”.
Not everyone over there is that crazy though, most are just understandably pissed with the situation.
"Keep pushin' til' it's understood. And these badlands start treating us good."
They booed Ted Lilly at the 2009 ASG
Can’t say I really have a high opinion of them.
RIP Ronnie James Dio (July 10, 1942 - May 16, 2010) and Ron Santo (February 25, 1940-December 2, 2010).
He'll be loved in Chicago
as long as the Cubs win.
They’ll re-name it Pujols Field if he leads us to the WS Title. They’ll build a statue of him holding the statues of Banks and Santo in each hand.
by Josh Timmers on Feb 16, 2011 6:40 PM CST up reply actions
Albertageddon?
= Bad Goat Lender

"Keep pushin' til' it's understood. And these badlands start treating us good."
The Yankees
are not interested in Pujols, according to ESPN New York.
It makes sense since they don’t have any room of him and they need pitching more than anything. On top of that, a $30 million a year contract for Pujols is actually a $42 million dollar a year contract for the Yankees since they’re way over the luxury tax threshold.
But it’s mentioned for those who insist that the Yankees will sign every big name FA.
They may not sign every big money FA , but...
they’re always players in the game.
"I think part of a best friend's job should be to immediately clear your computer history if you die." - Anonymous
More from Heyman:
Three competing executives say they expect the rival Cubs to make a big push for Pujols and, indeed, they do look like the greatest outside possibility at the moment. Wouldn’t that cast him in a new light for Cardinal Nation? The Cubs have the resources and the need, and execs feel they will pursue either Prince Fielder or more likely Pujols.
“They’ll give him the A-Rod deal,‘’ one exec opined.
“They’ll give him $33 million or $34 million for seven years,’’ guessed another exec.
"over pay" to shorten it, not a bad idea
Chronologically inept since 2060
Q: Why did Chuck Norris cross the road?
A: Ditka
Ditka's mustache can block a Chuck Norris round house
AKA "The Hendy Special"
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Feb 16, 2011 8:40 PM CST up reply actions
It's a great idea
Because giving anyone a 10 year deal is a horrible idea, even for Pujols. If he insists on a ten year deal or nothing, he could find himself without a job in 2012 if all the GMs retain their collective sanity. No way do I want the Cubs to sign him to a ten year deal. If that’s going to happen, let it be the Cards.
"When they signed Fukudome, I knew they were trying to get me fired". - Ron Santo, January, 2008
Boy, I'm glad they like to guess with other people's money!
$33-34 million per year? Yikes!
If you think you've seen it all...just wait!
by CubFanSince1970 on Feb 17, 2011 9:13 AM CST up reply actions
Take that for Lou Brock!!
"Easy on the words, brother,'' Quade said.
by RiskyBusiness on Feb 17, 2011 10:06 AM CST up reply actions
Something I need help understanding
Mozeliak said there won’t be any consideration of trading Pujols at the deadline, which I get because he doesn’t want to piss off Albert and ruin any chance of him re-upping with the Cards. But let’s say the Cards change their minds and decide to deal him at the deadline…why would Albert veto the deal? Just so he can give the Cards the big F.U.?
Because
he doesn’t want to be a rent-a-player for two months nor does he want to be negotiating a new contract with a new team at the trade deadline.
by Josh Timmers on Feb 17, 2011 12:04 AM CST up reply actions
Likewise
He has a special needs child and I don’t believe that he want to uproot his family for two plus months.
"All I want is food and creative love" - Rusted Root
by TheRiot Police on Feb 17, 2011 8:54 AM CST up reply actions
Maybe the best thing the Cubs do is drive up the price on the Cards
From reading Jeff Passan’s column today, if the cards still hold the advantage, that’s fine. The cubs should make sure they a steep price to keep Pujols.
If the Cubs can’t win on Pujols, make the cards lose on other players.
"Easy on the words, brother,'' Quade said.
Rather wait and see what he can do before handcuffing us to a monster contract
ITS 2011, TIME TO GO TO CUBBIE HEAVEN!
by superdave72760 on Feb 17, 2011 11:07 AM CST reply actions
Pena, that is...OOPS!
ITS 2011, TIME TO GO TO CUBBIE HEAVEN!
by superdave72760 on Feb 17, 2011 11:07 AM CST reply actions
Pujols Press Conference in Fla...
I’ve been watching this on MLB Network and I have to say as much as I respect
him for his talent on the field, my respect for him off the field has gone up a notch.
The Deadline…
He initially set the deadline for yesterday, but when the Stan Musial event was
announced he shifted it to today and stayed out of camp an extra day so the media
frenzy didn’t take away from Stan Musial’s day.
To me that speaks volumes about his respect for the men who came before him.
The Press Conference…
He’s said he doesn’t want to negotiate in the press and from what I saw, he’s going
to stick to it. He never mentioned numbers, years or any details. Everytime some
writer asked a loaded question about he stuck to his guns.
I had to laugh a little when one of the writers asked why he won’t talk about it and
why he has the deadline he laughed, looked around at the zoo of reporters and
said something to the effect of “you really have to ask that question?”
He was firm about not talking details, didn’t say anything that might be taken as
using the media to negotiate.
The real question is will the media respect his wish to not talk about this all season?
LOL SNORT CHUCKLE Falls out of wheelchair holding his sides
My prediction is they’ll keep pushing and pushing and Albert is going to stop talking
to the media. About the only thing he can do to drive the point home is if they keep
trying to get him to talk about it is:
a.) Remind them a time or two and stick to his guns on this and failing that.
b.) Walk out of after game press conferences if the question gets asked.
If… if… Albert goes FA… I want him in Cubbie Blue…
I think I have a man crush…
R.I.P. Ronnie Santo... you will be missed...
We know or should know that
Sir Albert wants to be a Cardinal for the rest of his career. IMO he will test the FA market and then ultimately re-up with the Cards, which is the same as Holliday did.
Anything can happen between now and the end of the year, but I’ll choose to concentrate on the Cubs in 2011.
Michael Wilbon says Pujols should sign with the Cubs. And I agree with his reasoning 100%.
Check out Chicago sports coverage at SB Nation Chicago
Included in that article
is an awesome illustration of Pujols at Wrigley in a Cub uniform.
It makes way too much sense for Pujols to come to the Cubs for it not to happen if St. Louis isn’t willing to payhim.
by Josh Timmers on Feb 18, 2011 4:02 PM CST up reply actions
That's a great article and it all makes perfect sense.
But in our heart of hearts can we really see Pujols in a Cubs uniform?
Head says “yes,” heart says “no way on god’s green earth.”
"Keep pushin' til' it's understood. And these badlands start treating us good."
Here's something else to chew on...
Much to the chagrin of Doggie, Al and others, Cubs have continued to raise ticket prices in past few years, even in the face of falling attendance.
Hop aboard the “What if…” Express and ask yourself how ticket sales would go for 2012 if the Cubs actually do sign Pujols. And then think about all those tickets being sold at the now higher prices and do the math.
Cha-ching!!!!!!!!
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
Doggie would finally be able to turn a profit on all the games she can't fly into Chicago from New York for!
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Feb 18, 2011 3:23 PM CST up reply actions
Well, exactly.
That could pay for a good chunk of the contract.
Check out Chicago sports coverage at SB Nation Chicago
Is the money worrying you?
"Keep pushin' til' it's understood. And these badlands start treating us good."
Yes, it has to do with the money.
If I could sign 3 or 4 good players for about what Pujols would sign, I would. What happens if he get injured? What are you left with? Pujols is definitely worth that much .. just don’t know if you can really build a championship contender with 20 percent of the payroll going to one player.
Screw the haters. It's Cutler time.
by lexmarklover on Feb 19, 2011 4:42 PM CST up reply actions
what happens if anyone gets injured
you cannot sign players with that fear. its like going on a date and being worried she wont like your socks
Chronologically inept since 2060
Q: Why did Chuck Norris cross the road?
A: Ditka
Ditka's mustache can block a Chuck Norris round house
No chance.
My socks are AWESOME.
"This is a football." "Slow down, coach! You're goin' too fast!"
Comments from Rickets on signing a big free agent next year
http://sports.espn.go.com/chicago/mlb/news/story?id=6139075
Do people think Rickets is still gonna pass on Pujols?
It looks like if Pujols accepted less years then the Cubs will be willing to throw him a lot of money.
I think the Ricketts have to at least try.
The backlash if they don’t would be awful.
GM's are in charge of Managers, not the other way around.
I think it's way too early to tell.
Obviously, he can’t say anything about Pujols because of the tampering rules.
Reading between the lines, it sounds like he is definitely on the Cubs radar.
Check out Chicago sports coverage at SB Nation Chicago
Everyone thinks
the Cubs are “in” on Pujols. Overpaying Pena to take a one-year deal was part of that, although I think at the time they were thinking more “Gonzalez” or “Fielder” than “Pujols.”
But every indication is that the Cubs were setting up for a major free agent signing at first base next winter.
by Josh Timmers on Feb 19, 2011 9:25 PM CST up reply actions
And, they probably still are setting up for that.
Check out Chicago sports coverage at SB Nation Chicago
Until Hendry gives Pena a 2 year extension in June. Then we all get to watch...
elgato. go. boom!
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
Well it's all dependent on Pujols actually reaching FA
If that does happen, and the Ricketts don’t make him a target, then the fanbase is not going to be happy.
GM's are in charge of Managers, not the other way around.
Kenny Williams
He goes off on a $30M/year player:
http://sports.espn.go.com/chicago/mlb/news/story?id=6147503
I have to say, for once, I agree with the guy, especially about a cap. Teams like the Pirates and Royals don’t have a chance when the season starts, and that’s not fair for their fans.
That said, if you’re going to cap team payrolls, you’ll have to also establish a minimum that teams can spend. As the article states, the Pirates and Padres are spending $35M & $38m respectively this year, which is equally as gross as the Yankees spending over $200M.
Scott Bora$ is satan.
by Canadian Cubs Fan on Feb 22, 2011 6:13 PM CST reply actions
Kenny Williams
was just taking a pre-emptive shot at the Cubs there.
And as far as that “Pirates and Royals” stuff, people used to say the same stuff about the Rays and the Twins. Yet they seem to find a way to win anyway. Not having as much money hurts those teams because they aren’t allowed to make the same kinds of mistakes, but the biggest problem with the Pirates and the Royals over the past 20 years is that they’ve been run my morons. If you have a “salary floor,” those teams will just give bigger contracts to Derek Bell and Jeff Francoeur.
At least KC seems to get it now (Francoeur notwithstanding.) They’ve got the best farm system of any team in over a decade.
by Josh Timmers on Feb 23, 2011 4:59 AM CST up reply actions
I agree to some extent
with a lot of what you’re saying. No, you can’t guarantee that teams will spend or develop wisely, but the Pirates aren’t even playing the same game as Yankees or Red Sox. When the league has one player making almost as much as another teams 25 man roster, there are structural problems that need to be addressed.
Nice Derek Bell reference, BTW…haven’t thought of that guy since Woody whiffed him to end the 20K game.
Scott Bora$ is satan.
by Canadian Cubs Fan on Feb 23, 2011 6:04 AM CST reply actions
Oops!
Meant that as a reply to Josh :)
Scott Bora$ is satan.
by Canadian Cubs Fan on Feb 23, 2011 6:04 AM CST up reply actions
Buster Olney on Pujols and the Cubs
The gist of the article is that the Cubs are going to be under tremendous pressure to sign Pujols if he hits the open market and that the Cubs are going to have enough money falling off the books to pay for him. If the Cubs don’t make a move for Albert, then the Ricketts family will forever get branded as “cheap,” which is not a good label for an owner to get. On top of that, every game the Cubs lose in 2012 will be met with cries of “We would have won with Pujols.” He says if the Ricketts make a serious attempt and that Pujols decides to stay in St. Louis anyway, the fans and the media would accept that. But for the Ricketts not to make a serious effort would be a disaster.
I’m just going to add that the last time the Cubs had the best player in baseball playing for them, they were called the White Stockings and it was the 1880s with Cap Anson.
I beg to differ with one part of your post.
I agree, the Cubs almost have to go after Pujols for exactly that reason.
In 1958 and 1959, the Cubs probably had the best player in baseball in Ernie Banks. Too bad the rest of the team was so awful.
Check out Chicago sports coverage at SB Nation Chicago
I disagree
He was the best player in the National League. The best player in baseball was Mickey Mantle.
I’m more going on what a player’s skill was over time. Sure, you can argue that Banks had a better 1959 than Mantle did. Ryne Sandberg probably had the best season of anyone in baseball in 1984. But that’s one year’s result. The best overall player in the game over the late 50s and early 60s was Mantle.
by Josh Timmers on Feb 23, 2011 10:16 PM CST up reply actions
Best overall player in late 50s and early 60s - Mantle over Mays?
Had you said hitter, I might have let it slide, though I’d be inclined to look up Williams’ stats and compare. But when you say overall, I gotta give it to Mays – I don’t know the best way to compare them offensively, but I’d say it be close no matter what stat you use. Mays getting a gold glove every year seals it for me though. Mick only had one.
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
Mantle was a great fielder
he wasn’t as good as Mays, but he was very good. At least in the 1950s before his knees got shot. By the 1960s, not so much.
The Gold glove issue is that they didn’t start giving out gold gloves until 1957, and not separate ones for each league until 1958. That meant that after they gave out the gloves to Al Kaline and Jimmy Piersall, there was only one left which they seemed to want to give to Jim Landis.
Besides, are we really going to judge fielding ability on the basis of gold glove voters in 1958?
But if you want to make a case for Mays (or even Aaron) being the best player in baseball in the late 50s, I can’t really argue with you. It’s not like Mantle is head and shoulders ahead of them. The Mantle vs. Mays argument dates back to when they both were rookies. They are both among the greatest ten players to ever play the game.
But I will grant Al this one point: Ernie Banks had the best season in all of baseball in 1959, and it’s not even particularly close. So if you want to say Ernie Banks was the best player in all of baseball for 1959, I guess I have to agree.
by Josh Timmers on Feb 24, 2011 1:14 PM CST up reply actions
I certainly realize the folly and limitations of GG awards today...
…I guess I was hoping they stayed closer to their true intent in the early years. i.e. defense was paramount, offense not so much.
But the only reason I brought it up was upon looking at the baseball-reference pages for both guys, in that last column, seems like pretty much every year, Mantle had AS,MVP-# listed, but Mays did him one better with AS, MVP-#, GG listed.
At least during the time period in question (late 50s, early 60s). I still wake up in a cold sweat sometimes thinking about how Mays looked in a Mets uniform at end of his career… (shudder…)
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."


























