Alfonso Soriano for Michael Young?
by Dave Gottschalk on Feb 9, 2011 7:01 PM CST
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Michael Young wants out of Texas and everyone knows it. His contract says there are only eight teams he can be traded to without his consent – the Rockies, Cardinals, Astros, Padres, Dodgers, Yankees, Twins and Angels. But if Young wants out as bad as the media is making it out to be, why wouldn’t he open up to other teams? Say that Young does open up to other teams, could the Cubs pursue?
Having Ian Kinsler and Elvis Andrus covering the middle of the infield, as well as the offseason signing of Adrian Beltre at third, The Rangers don’t need Young’s glove; and he will more then likely be designated hitting. The veteran doesn’t want to do that, and he’s a ballplayer—who would? Young is owed $48 million through 2013.Last season he hit .284 while belting 21 home runs and bringing in 91 runs. The Rangers have fear of dealing him because his contract in quite significant over the next three years and they’re worried they will have to eat a large portion of the contract.
The Cubs have an overstuffed outfield, as well as an overpaid Alfonso Soriano who doesn’t necessarily field his position too well. Soriano is guaranteed $54 million over the next three years and an additional $18 in 2014. He is injury prone, and had less than 500 at bats last year. Tyler Colvin is a capable outfielder; whose has shown his clutch, as well as potential at the plate hitting .251 in 2010 while slugging .500 over 358 at bats. He has shown he deserves an everyday role. Soriano’s shoes are filled.
To top it off, Chicago is in need of a second baseball. Neither Blake Dewitt nor Jeff Baker shows an everyday starter. Bringing in Michael Young would give the Cubs an everyday starter who is a 600 at bat guy who shows up to the ball field and plays hard everyday. He also brings experience for a young star in Starlin Castro – who shows plenty of promise. How can you lose?!
The problem lies in the contracts. Soriano’s deal goes until 2014 so the Cubs would probably have to eat some of his salary, paying Soriano a couple million every year over the next few years. The Cubs don’t have a lot of money to work with, having the third highest payroll in the league; but Young is cheaper through 2013 and paying Soriano a couple million over the next few years is feasible. To me, this deal seems worth the risk, and if the Cubs can get Young to jump on board, I’d have to say it’d be a hit.
This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of SB Nation or Al Yellon, managing editor (unless it's a FanPost posted by Al). FanPost opinions are valued expressions of opinion by passionate and knowledgeable baseball fans.
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I'll take your word for it that he's not good
However, I don’t think either DeWitt or Baker are great shakes in the field, either. How much worse do you think Young is, both right now and two years from now? Should the Cubs take into consideration that they have able fielders (Barney now, others later) who could be late-inning defensive replacements? What would the net change in defense be by getting worse at second and better in LF? These are the questions that fill the thoughts of young men in the dead of winter….
No one should be untouchable on this roster unless his name is Eliot Ness...or Starlin Castro.
This trade is never happening.
But 2B is the easiest infield position to play. I don’t think he would have any problem playing 2B.
no it doesn't
that’s false. A 3B has to have more quickness as the ball gets to him much quicker at 3B than at 2B. Range—okay I could buy into that, but that is more about footspeed, not quickness. And turning the double play needs work. But if Michael Young were moved to 2B, he would be perfectly fine.
But if Michael Young were moved to 2B, he would be perfectly fine.
You mean like Ryan Theriot was?
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you act like he never played the position before
he has and was good. He didn’t turn into Pablo Sandoval over the winter, did he?
Because he moved to Shortstop!
That’s the single toughest position on the diamond. It’s not like he moved off 2B to go to LF back in 2003.
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Also a stronger arm and better accuracy
Fangraphs rates 2nd and 3rd base as the same difficulty.
http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/explaining-win-values-part-three
he an also play anywhere else
If Ramirez needs a day off, he’s good in the hot corner as well as first base. He brings a lot more to the team than Soriano.
Soriano has a full no-trade clause
and I’m pretty sure he doesn’t want to go back to Texas. The Rangers don’t want to take on Soriano’s salary anyway. (Although it’s only one more year and 2 million a year more than Young.)
Fonzie’s going nowhere, folks. Get used to him for four more seasons.
The thing about Texas
is they have new ownership, and a recent track record of success. Do they want Soriano? Heck, no. But I’m not sure he would reject a trade there. He hits well there, he could probably still play some outfield, and DH is his best position. Vlad Guerrero said just last year that one reason he chose to go there was the welcoming, family atmosphere for Latin players.
I don’t recall: was Daniels the GM and Washington the manager when Fonzie played there?
No one should be untouchable on this roster unless his name is Eliot Ness...or Starlin Castro.
Daniels was the assistant GM at the time...
(though he took over for John Hart as GM right before the 2006 season, IIRC — I’m not sure who actually traded him to Washington). Buck Showalter was the manager; Ron Washington was still the A’s infield coach.
"I've never complained about it. I'm thankful to have a jersey." Mark DeRosa, 22 Aug 2007
Also, Young can block trades to the Cubs and most other teams
so for him, it might come down to his feelings about rejoining Jaramillo. Anyone know anything about that?
Sheesh, I must really be hard up for Cubs news, because I think there’s almost no chance of this deal, yet I’ve just made three posts.
No one should be untouchable on this roster unless his name is Eliot Ness...or Starlin Castro.
If Vernon Wells was able to be moved from the Jays
one can at least hold out hope that Soriano has some chance of being traded. However small that chance is.
"Keep pushin' til' it's understood. And these badlands start treating us good."
by AussieCub on Feb 10, 2011 3:10 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Rec'd
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by TheBeerBaron on Feb 10, 2011 1:13 PM CST up reply actions
That would be like some mediocre pitcher saying "If Barry Zito can get a $120M contract then so can I"
Some mistakes are so dumb they can only happen once.
Wow there's been an abundance of terrible fanposts lately.
by Dcr18 on Feb 9, 2011 7:37 PM CST via mobile reply actions 1 recs
Way to be tolerant
"When they signed Fukudome, I knew they were trying to get me fired". - Ron Santo, January, 2008
It pushes revenant posts down the page.
Not only is this post pointless, but the Michael Young topic was already covered in another thread. If you enjoy reading pointless posts like this, I’ll be happy to make a fanpost detailing my morning routine just for you. It would have just as much value as a post proposing we trade Soriano for Young.
by Dcr18 on Feb 9, 2011 9:10 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
You mean relevant posts like...
the ones about that St. Louis Cardinal guy, Albert Pujols?
"I think part of a best friend's job should be to immediately clear your computer history if you die." - Anonymous
Clearly you noth speaking of our
FanPost, good sir, doth you?
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by dtpollitt n SWL on Feb 9, 2011 9:57 PM CST up reply actions
Yup
"A dream you dream alone is only a dream. A dream you dream together is reality." John Lennon
"My favorite food is Macaroni and Cheese, from the blue box." Geovany Soto
"They played like son of a guns......lord have mercy." Mike Quade
I don't know how realistic this whole thing sounds
but if Young wants out bad enough, he’ll open up to talks with other teams. It would make the infield as well as outfield stronger. If things open up, it wouldn’t be a bad idea for the Cubs to try their luck.
Give it up.
Soriano will never be traded, simple as that. Get over it, and move on. Putting thought into how the Cubs could trade him is wasting time.
by Dcr18 on Feb 9, 2011 8:58 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
I was with you in this sentiment
until the Angels traded for Vernon Wells. That cracked open the door just a tiny bit that a team with a really bad contract would take Soriano in return, especially if he has a strong first half.
No one should be untouchable on this roster unless his name is Eliot Ness...or Starlin Castro.
Still a huge stretch.
Wells just about lived up to his contract last year. Not many CF’s are gonna put up numbers like his last year. Not to mention he plays a premier defensive position, and as far as I know he’s still one of the top defenders at the position. I would think at this point he has much more value than fonzi.
by Dcr18 on Feb 9, 2011 9:21 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
Top defender?
He’s been just short of terrible in CF the past 3 years. He needs to be shifted over to LF, which is probably what will happen in Anaheim. Transpose his numbers over to LF, and he becomes a lot less appealing (and valuable, for that matter). Also, up until this past season, Wells hadn’t broken 1.5 WAR in a year since 2006.
While Wells has been terrible, he still has both age and health in his favor, compared to Soriano. While the Wells trade did barely crack open the door of a possible Soriano trade, the odds are still highly against one.
Well I wasn't sure, I knew he used to be an elite defender.
Regardless I’m sure he would still be a better defender in left than Soriano.
Oh, good heavens.
Why on Earth would the Rangers want Soriano back?
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In most cases they wouldn't....
But this proposal is kinda interesting as the Rangers have no leverage at this point and Young also has a albatross of a contract. This is definitely a post noteworthy of discussing IMO.
Forget about most cases - let's just talk about this case
Soriano’s contract is even more of an albatross. And even if the Cubs throw in enough money to even it out, do you really think the Rangers would rather have Soriano than Young? Why?
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
They shouldn't
But I hope JH has at least considered it. There is a difference between no offers and no legitimate offers,
No I don't but......
It looks like the Rangers have now moved and not moved and jacked Young around to the point of a really really bad relationship. Looks to the point that they can’t reconcile this relationship anymore.
Both players best years are well behind them and both are a financial burden at this point. Yeah I see where the Rangers are wanting a king’s ransom but it ain’t happening as the aforementioned contact is a hindrance from that.
And as far as this trade proposal goes,
from Texas’ standpoint, if they’re looking at Young primarily as a DH, the question would be whether or not they thought that Soriano would be a better DH (with some ability to play OF) going forward than Young (who can obviously play some IF). Also, having to make some adjustment for Soriano’s contract length.
I can’t imagine it happening, simply because of the N/T’s involved. And I’m not sure that it makes either team any better.
"Enough foreplay- let's get crackin'"- Fred Garvin
Yeah...why would a team bring back players from their past?
That’s crazy…ummm…never mind.
"I think part of a best friend's job should be to immediately clear your computer history if you die." - Anonymous
by Easy Ed on Feb 9, 2011 10:50 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Wasn't this hashed over
in the other Michael Young post? Young isn’t a 2nd baseman and why would Texas do this? They want to free up some money hence unloading Young even if they pay some salary is better than taking on Soriano even with some added cash. Texas’ outfield is full and with Napoli now signed, they don’t need a DH.
John Grabow: $4.8 million in 2011.
yabbut
I’m not sure what Young has left in the tank, but he could play third when Rami leaves.
Really?
Considering he’s older than Ramirez, why would you want this?
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I wouldn't imagine we will bring Rami back next year.
Maybe we will. But if we were to get Young for Sori’s contract, then it would be possible to turn Sori’s contract into a 3B and let Rami go. Then we could use the Rami money ‘elsewhere’ (cough) first base (cough).
I'm sorry.
You must have the Rangers confused with the Angels, and I don’t think the Angels are will to give the Cubs a break like they did with Toronto.
Seriously, though, there’s NO WAY Texas does this. Michael Young can ask for a trade, but it’s not like the Rangers have to oblige him. I agree with all the other posters. Soriano’s not going anywhere.
"Hey! If the moon were made of ribs, wouldja eat it? I know I would!"
While this is probably true
a man can dream.
Agree
why else would I be a Cubs fan? why else would I be on this site?
"Playoffs?!" -Jim Mora
by Castro Por Presidente on Feb 15, 2011 5:20 PM CST up reply actions
The Cubs and Rangers don't need this trade
Doesn’t make sense for any side
"A dream you dream alone is only a dream. A dream you dream together is reality." John Lennon
"My favorite food is Macaroni and Cheese, from the blue box." Geovany Soto
"They played like son of a guns......lord have mercy." Mike Quade
I am curious
To top it off, Chicago is in need of a second baseball.
did they lose their first one?
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Ricketts have really cut the budget!!!!!!!!!!!!!!111
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by daver on Feb 10, 2011 9:17 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
wtf? you all right there man?
"A dream you dream alone is only a dream. A dream you dream together is reality." John Lennon
"My favorite food is Macaroni and Cheese, from the blue box." Geovany Soto
"They played like son of a guns......lord have mercy." Mike Quade
Great job, team. Head back to base for debriefing and cocktails.
"Enough foreplay- let's get crackin'"- Fred Garvin
Amerriiiicaaaa
Amerriiiiiicaaaaaa!!!!
"Baseball is almost the only orderly thing in a very unorderly world. If you get three strikes, even the best lawyer in the world can't get you off." ~ Bill Veeck
Yes!
I like this idea, but sadly I agree it seems both impossible and illogical. Good money after bad, or something like that. So let’s watch it happen…
Regardless if this post was relevant, renovation, or renegade, it still allowed for me to read more of goodold#10. I’m glad you’re here man!
Won't happen.
Probably shouldn’t happen (if it’s accurate that Young can’t play second anymore).
The end.
I jokingly brought up this trade possibility with another guy in the department who is a Rangers fan
“We’ll give you Soriano back for Young.”
That was a no.
RIP Ronnie James Dio (July 10, 1942 - May 16, 2010) and Ron Santo (February 25, 1940-December 2, 2010).
Just spitballing some numbers
I could see where the Cubs doing a deal with Texas could make sense, but that’s mostly centered around Kosuke and Silva. I don’t think Soriano is going anywhere.
Repeated from the other thread
How about a three-way trade.
Young to the Angels.
Kazmir to the Cubs.
Fukudome to the Rangers.
Add other parts as needed, mix and stir.
No one should be untouchable on this roster unless his name is Eliot Ness...or Starlin Castro.
Yeah, I think we need to read a little more...
…of your rationale behind this trade to comment. How would/could the money even out? And, as rlpete has asked, why Kazmir? Because he’s left-handed?
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LEFT HANDED IS GOOD NO MATTER THE TALENT GOSH
"Baseball is almost the only orderly thing in a very unorderly world. If you get three strikes, even the best lawyer in the world can't get you off." ~ Bill Veeck
All right, let me think through this a little more
The Angels need a third baseman. Callaspo was terrible for them at the end of last year, and he could spend time at second with Kendrick. That would leave them free to deal Brandon Wood, not that he’s worth much in a trade. Kazmir is set to make $12.5 M this year, plus a $2.5 M buyout or $13.5 M salary for 2012. He is their only LH starter, but was also their worst starter last year, and Trevor Bell can probably take over for him OK.
The Rangers are trying to satisfy Young’s trade demands and get a major-league position player and young pitcher for him (from what I’ve read). The Cubs would prefer to hand RF to Colvin full-time this season. If they could dump more salary than they take on, they could try Kazmir as the fifth starter and hope he gets closer to his past success. He started throwing a two-seamer after his shoulder problems, and last year he couldn’t get that pitch or the changeup in the zone against lefties. I think he was tinkering, and they were leaving him out there to work on things. No guarantees, but maybe a new pitching coach and a move to the NL could help him settle on a new mix of pitches, or he might get back a couple MPH of velocity.
LA won’t want to take on all that salary without getting rid of some, especially after acquiring Wells. So here’s one possibility.
Young and a prospect to the Angels
Kazmir, Maicer Izturis, and Brandon Wood to the Cubs
Fukudome, Carlos Silva, and Chris Carpenter to the Rangers
Guaranteed salaries for 2011-13:
Young 16,16,16
Kazmir 12.5, 2.5
Izturis 3.1, 3.8
Fukudome 13.5
Silva 6 (Cub portion), 2 (buyout); let’s say Cubs pay 3 of that in 2011
2011: That’s Angels 16 vs. Cubs 15.6 vs. Rangers 16.5
2012: 16 vs. 6.3 vs. 2
2013 16 vs. 0 vs. 0
So the Rangers could also send LA about $4 million a year in 2012 and 2013.
No one should be untouchable on this roster unless his name is Eliot Ness...or Starlin Castro.
Whoa...my head is spinning.
Seriously, thanks for going through it in a little more detail. I think, at the very least, you’ve made a decent case for the idea. I’m not familiar enough with the Angels to know how willing they’d be to give up Izturis and Wood. I’m also not sure what the Cubs would do with Izturis and Wood — that would give them quite an overload of infielders, would it not? And, overall, this kind of blockbuster trade seems unlikely going into spring training. But, hey, I still don’t mind spitballin’ trade ideas like this as long as there’s some rational thought behind them.
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Well....
… while the Rangers might want to accomodate Young, I doubt they’d trade within their division to the Angels. They’re looking to bury the Angels, not help them out at all. Signing Beltre at the expense of a life long Ranger contributor like Young is just the latest example.
"When they signed Fukudome, I knew they were trying to get me fired". - Ron Santo, January, 2008
Michael Young does not play second base
Unless you get rid of Ramirez for him (Terrible idea), then there is no point in having him. He hasn’t played a game at second base since 2003. He is 34. No thank you.
Viva la Cubs Révolution!!!
The problem with your idea is that Texas wouldn't want to replace Young
They are actually looking to save as much of his salary as they can, while replacing him with someone a lot cheaper. They don’t get that bang out of getting Soriano back.
I would love to trade Soriano...
and even send some money with him. But I wouldn’t want another bad contract coming back, unless it comes off the books much earlier.
I also wouldn’t mind sending Z to the Yanks, whether that FP was in jest or not. I believe it is in the Cubs’ best interest to at least try to hit the reset button, and build around youth while attempting to restock the farm system.
I thought Who was at first?
"I'd rather hit home runs you don't have to run as hard." -- Dave Kingman
by BucknerKongCardenal on Feb 10, 2011 1:55 PM CST up reply actions
How bout Michael young?
People say hes bad at 3rd and cant play 2b anymore. Then maybe he could pick up LF. If Soriano can play left field i think Michael Young can pick it up.
But still its unlikely this deal would happen but thats a solution to filling left field.
Colvin
It’s his natural position
"Baseball is almost the only orderly thing in a very unorderly world. If you get three strikes, even the best lawyer in the world can't get you off." ~ Bill Veeck
Nothing to see here. Move along.
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by willie mays hayes' gloves on Feb 10, 2011 6:07 PM CST reply actions
Oh, good heavens.
Phil Rogers must have read this post.
That definitely means this will never happen.
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and right after detailing the Young soap opera, Phil drops this little gem in there
Looking to rebound: Once one of the best shortstops in baseball, the gifted Jose Reyes, heads to the Marlins hoping to show the Mets and 29 other teams he still can be an impact player. He will be a free agent after this season, but the jury’s out on the 27-year-old who was a shadow of himself after hamstring surgery in 2009.
I guess the Mets have already started the great sell-off. And does this mean H-Ram is now available? Giterdone Jim
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
Um, what?
If that was a typo in the article, it’s been corrected.
by Shanghai Badger on Feb 12, 2011 8:20 PM CST up reply actions
Hmm... maybe Phil reads BCB?
You’re right – somebody went in and dropped the Marlins reference. Too bad, I was really hoping for H-Ram…
Looking to rebound: Once one of the best shortstops in baseball, the gifted Jose Reyes, heads to spring training hoping to show the Mets and 29 other teams he still can be an impact player. He will be a free agent after this season, but the jury’s out on the 27-year-old who was a shadow of himself after hamstring surgery in 2009.
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
I'm pretty sure Carrie Muskat reads BCB
She’s been known to write columns about things that have been discussed here. She just wrote a column about moving Soto up and she talked about putting him in the 2 hole, which was a fanpost IIRC last week
"Baseball is almost the only orderly thing in a very unorderly world. If you get three strikes, even the best lawyer in the world can't get you off." ~ Bill Veeck
I wouldn't read it if I were her
She really gets dumped on around here. I don’t disagree with all of it, but some of it gets personal.
by Shanghai Badger on Feb 13, 2011 4:54 PM CST up reply actions
Times like this I wish the MLB was more like the NBA
In the NBA there’s always some desire for players with expiring contracts for whatever reason. I guess the thought process is “well if he sucks, we can bury him on the bench and we get rid of him in a year”.
I think a more realistic trade would be Fuk for Young. Although even then I don’t think the Cubs should do it unless they get money or prospects or both. I think Fuk has a higher impact to the Rangers than Young does to the Cubs
"Baseball is almost the only orderly thing in a very unorderly world. If you get three strikes, even the best lawyer in the world can't get you off." ~ Bill Veeck
Because in basketball, expiring contracts are gold for teams that need cap room in FA
That’s how the Bulls were able to put themselves in position to sign multiple elite free agents this past offseason. But, Lebron and Bosh chose Miami.
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Jerry Angelo trades for Jay Cutler! (4.2.2009)
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