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Athletics 6, Cubs 5: Someone Stand Up In Relief. Please.

PHOENIX, Arizona -- This was going to be a happy recap, telling you how the Cubs came from behind, using the long ball, to defeat the Oakland Athletics.

Instead, two of the pitchers supposed to be among the most reliable in the 2011 bullpen failed, and the A's had a walkoff, 6-5 win over the Cubs.

That really isn't fair to Kerry Wood and Sean Marshall, actually. Wood had a ball kick off his foot that could have been an easy out; if he gets that out, the next two batters popped up and the inning would have been over. Instead, after the two popups, another single scored a run, then Wood got squeezed by plate umpire Gerry Davis, issuing a walk, and had to get yet another ground ball to end the inning.

Marshall's ninth inning, with the Cubs leading by two, should have been over just as quickly. The first batter, Eric Sogard, hit an easy fly ball to left field. Fernando Perez, supposedly good defensively, dropped it. Now, it's impossible to know how the rest of the inning would have played out, but after a single and a fly ball scored one run, Marshall gave up three straight hits, including a game-winning double to Conor Jackson.

Star-divide

Seriously, I think Marshall and Wood will be fine. It just wasn't their day today.

Before that, the Cubs got a fine six-inning outing out of Ryan Dempster, who made one mistake, allowing a two-run homer to Kurt Suzuki after a single by Hideki Matsui. Other than that, he allowed only two other singles, gave up no walks, and struck out three. John Grabow even had a scoreless inning in his first outing since Feb. 27, but don't get too excited -- he gave up a line-drive single to Matsui and all three outs he recorded were on long fly balls.

And the Cubs, trailing 2-0 after Gio Gonzalez was even better than Dempster in six innings, came back in the seventh. Geovany Soto led off the seventh with his first homer of the spring, and after Gonzalez walked Carlos Pena (on another close pitch -- Davis was squeezing both sides), Bob Geren yanked him for Brad Ziegler. Alfonso Soriano slammed Ziegler's first pitch about 430 feet to dead center field for a two-run homer, his second of the spring. Reed Johnson hit a two-run homer in the eighth, his first since returning to a Cubs uniform, and given that Johnson is hitting .167 and Perez .174, and Reed's playing better defense and Fernando has options, I suspect Perez is headed to Iowa.

The game was a sellout of 8,425, though there were scattered empty seats throughout, and the crowd seemed at least 35-40% Cubs fans, many dressed in green Cubs garb; the Cubs also wore green caps to celebrate St. Patrick's Day.

A note for Cubs concessionaire Ovations: Cactus Sports, a small retail operation located near the ASU campus in Tempe, had a table set up with some of their spring training merchandise, and they were handing out "buy one ST item, get one 50% off". With the game over in a fairly snappy 2:29, I headed over to Mill St. in Tempe after the game and bought two spring training items (plus a 20-ounce bottle of Diet Coke) for less than I would have paid for one item in Mesa. If you're in the Phoenix area, or headed this way, and want good quality, inexpensive spring training Cubs souvenirs, go to this store. No, they didn't pay me for this plug; it's just a better deal. And the guy behind the counter was a Cubs fan.

Tomorrow, Carlos Zambrano will take the mound in Mesa to face the Reds' Sam LeCure, who is actually a candidate for Cincinnati's bullpen. Carlos Silva is also supposed to see action tomorrow, which may be an indication they want to see if he can handle bullpen duty.

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I've noticed that the Cubs seemed to fare well

with relievers with a submarine style delivery. Am I right?

by braziliancubsfan on Mar 17, 2011 7:10 PM CDT reply actions  

Yes.

They used to hit Chad Bradford, too. Now if only the Cubs could get the rest of the NL to use all submarine relievers.

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by Al Yellon on Mar 17, 2011 7:26 PM CDT up reply actions  

Too bad Mazzone, Cox, and Schuerholz aren't still running the Braves

They always seemed to have two or three submariners on the squad.

"Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have?" -Frank Chance
"If [Ruth] had [called his shot], I would have knocked him down with the next pitch." -Charlie Root

by Clutch16 on Mar 17, 2011 7:34 PM CDT up reply actions  

Seems like everytime they start something positive

they revert to their ways of the last couple of years, one step forward and two steps back.

by jpeters407 on Mar 17, 2011 7:11 PM CDT reply actions  

What does any of this have to do

with who the backup catcher is? And only a short paragraph on Cactus League attendance?

Get back on topic, Al.

by Josh Timmers on Mar 17, 2011 7:20 PM CDT reply actions  

Sorry.

It was a mistake. It’ll never happen again.

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by Al Yellon on Mar 17, 2011 7:25 PM CDT up reply actions  

I'll pick up the ball on attendance for Al

Today’s game is a perfect example of why you have to wait for the end of ST before you draw any conclusions about attendance.

Today’s sellout crowd at Phoenix Muni is nearly 2x the biggest pre-Spring Break crowd the A’s have had this year (4448 on Fri, Mar 4th).

But, here is the real eye opener. Before today, the A’s average attendance was off by a whopping 2,000 per game (2011 vs 2010). Today’s crowd made up nearly 500 (1/4) of that. In one game!

The A’s have two home games this weekend and assuming both draw well (one is against the D’Backs) they will have made up better than 2/3rds of the deficit in 3 games and will be a good bet to finish the ST season with a much smaller deficit than it looked like this morning.

by azjazzman on Mar 17, 2011 7:32 PM CDT up reply actions  

Nevertheless, it's still likely going to be a deficit.

We’ll revisit this at the end of spring training.

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by Al Yellon on Mar 17, 2011 7:41 PM CDT up reply actions  

By the end of this weekend

a 2,000 per game deficit is more likely to be a 600 per game deficit. That is a huge change in a short period of time, which is my point.

Evaluating ST attendance when there are many Spring Break games left to be played is like evaluating Kim Kardashian’s looks only from the neck up.

BTW, the Rockies had their 4 straight sell out game today and that’s 7 straight sellouts at SRF. I’m pretty sure that is unprecedented. And it’s not just because it is a new ballpark.

by azjazzman on Mar 17, 2011 7:59 PM CDT up reply actions  

I think it probably is the new ballpark, for the Rockies.

It’s not like the Rockies are defending champions.

We’ll see how this ends up.

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by Al Yellon on Mar 17, 2011 10:11 PM CDT up reply actions  

Now that's a much more reasoned approach as to whether or not there's an attendance issue

instead of going all chicken little after or before seemingly every game.

Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."

by ballhawk on Mar 17, 2011 8:08 PM CDT up reply actions  

I hope Hill gets cut...

…so this doesn’t continue for the rest of the season. Oh and because he’s awful.

"Pounding sand since 1982...."

by cubswynn on Mar 17, 2011 8:03 PM CDT up reply actions  

I think 95% of BCBers want him g-o-n-e

But Mike Q & Jim Hendry seem to outweigh our votes… sigh …

I didn't understand the "white-collar Cub fans", "blue-collar Sox fans" until much later in life. Harry Smith~ "For Cubs Fans Only".

by jeffstorm2 on Mar 17, 2011 9:13 PM CDT up reply actions  

Your wrong...

100% of BCB’ers want him gone and I’m quite sure about 100% of cubs fans in general want him gone. TBH I don’t think I have ever seen so many BCBC’ers agree on 1 topic.

by cubsluver22 on Mar 17, 2011 9:59 PM CDT up reply actions  

I agree,

Mainly because, it makes no sense to give Hill the backup job when Welington Castillo is hitting the cover off the ball in spring training this year. Yeah, Hill is great at handling the pitching staff. That should never be the only argument for promoting any player to backup catcher, because, if that person hits poorly (as Hill does), it’s two automatic outs at the bottom end of the lineup.

If I could ask Quade or Hendry one question, it would be as follows. What else does Castillo have to do to prove he should be on the big-league ballclub on April 1?

I didn't believe it last August, but it turns out that love survives.

State high point count: 3/50

If you are grouchy, irritable, or just plain mean, there will be a $10 charge for putting up with you.

by Vermont Cubs Fan on Mar 17, 2011 10:03 PM CDT up reply actions  

c'mon VCF

we know Hill will be on the roster, simply because we all don’t want him there. Hendry gave the guy a raise and to cut him would be to admit he was wrong. Not happening.

By all that's holy, I am going to attend the 2012 Randy Hundley Fantasy Camp.

by VegasCubFan on Mar 17, 2011 10:04 PM CDT up reply actions  

I know, VCF.

It’s a slap in the face to all of us.

I didn't believe it last August, but it turns out that love survives.

State high point count: 3/50

If you are grouchy, irritable, or just plain mean, there will be a $10 charge for putting up with you.

by Vermont Cubs Fan on Mar 17, 2011 10:05 PM CDT up reply actions  

slap slap!!

Gloveslap!!!

By all that's holy, I am going to attend the 2012 Randy Hundley Fantasy Camp.

by VegasCubFan on Mar 17, 2011 10:10 PM CDT up reply actions  

Proud recipient of a hot dog shot from the Iowa Cubs hot dog gun.

by IowaCubs- on Mar 17, 2011 10:34 PM CDT up reply actions  

Was at Cactus sports last night

of course today I get the 50% off coupon. Bought a hat. Today I stood in the shade in the grass patio behind third. Great game but this stadium sucked. Had not been there for a few years. Wished we could have closed the game out. What was up with Baker being the only Cub without a green hat??

We'll miss you Big Boy. #10 for Hall of Fame.

by mrcubsfan on Mar 17, 2011 7:29 PM CDT reply actions  

That was odd.

They had to have enough of them — they’re the same caps you can buy.

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by Al Yellon on Mar 17, 2011 7:32 PM CDT up reply actions  

Maybe hes Scottish?

I’m told The Scots “protest” St. Pattys Day…normally in orange tho…but that’s not possible here.

I didn't understand the "white-collar Cub fans", "blue-collar Sox fans" until much later in life. Harry Smith~ "For Cubs Fans Only".

by jeffstorm2 on Mar 17, 2011 9:08 PM CDT up reply actions  

Not true

I’m Scottish so can speak to the matter. The majority of Scot’s would go drinking hand in hand with their Irish friends to help “them” celebrate — we don’t celebrate for them like you all do over here. The hard core protestants in northern Ireland and a small segment of the southern Scots, often refereed to as the Orange army and take to the streets a few times a year to… …ummm be seen. These parades can be divisive and caused a lot of violence back in the pre-peace days. Now there are a few minor scuffles but on the whole are peaceful events. Scots on the whole though do not oppose St. Paddy’s day — we just don’t get into the commercialization of said event — drinking we can deal with.

"OFFENCE IS TO WEAK"
http://www.bleedcubbieblue.com/2011/2/24/2014183/cubs-mediocre-in-11

by mrtobby on Mar 18, 2011 1:50 PM CDT up reply actions  

rec'd

Awesome!

"I lof to hit de home ron!"

by Tekboy on Mar 17, 2011 8:25 PM CDT up reply actions  

K no more Spring Training time for the Regular Season.

cut the players and let’s fast forward two weeks

Keep that Q Train rollin' in '11. Let's win it for Ronnie.

by mikegncb34 on Mar 17, 2011 8:33 PM CDT reply actions  

Sadly Mike,

From the looks of things, and the W/L record, this version of our cubs needs all the ST they can get! :]

I didn't understand the "white-collar Cub fans", "blue-collar Sox fans" until much later in life. Harry Smith~ "For Cubs Fans Only".

by jeffstorm2 on Mar 17, 2011 9:06 PM CDT up reply actions  

Yeaaaa I know

Keep that Q Train rollin' in '11. Let's win it for Ronnie.

by mikegncb34 on Mar 17, 2011 9:57 PM CDT up reply actions  

FYI: The Ticket Ledger Came Today

Why would you not send that with the tickets, to me that is a waste of money paying for the envelope, shipping, and someone to put the ledger into the envelope and lick it. Kinda like when the insurance company sends you 15 pages of “this is not a bill”.

by jpeters407 on Mar 17, 2011 8:57 PM CDT reply actions  

I don't get that either.

Especially since they sent the fancy box. It wouldn’t have fit into the box? Dumb.

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by Al Yellon on Mar 17, 2011 10:12 PM CDT up reply actions  

the Cubs management

seems to do alot of things that dont make sense in terms of these small non-baseball things…take the letter they sent out to suite holders…a call would have been MUCH better and probably would have sold some renovations…

by hansman1982 on Mar 18, 2011 8:26 AM CDT up reply actions  

Reed Johnson, always a sentimental favorite...

Seems to be making a push to stay on the reduced rosters. 5HRs in 30ABs? That’s not typical Reed. And for that, I’m glad.

I didn't understand the "white-collar Cub fans", "blue-collar Sox fans" until much later in life. Harry Smith~ "For Cubs Fans Only".

by jeffstorm2 on Mar 17, 2011 9:03 PM CDT reply actions  

No, Reed doesn't have 5 HR in 30 AB.

He has five HITS in 30 AB — .167.

But then, Perez is hitting .174, so there’s not much difference in them for performance this spring.

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by Al Yellon on Mar 17, 2011 10:13 PM CDT up reply actions  

And yet you wanna send Perez down?
given that Johnson is hitting .167 and Perez .174, and Reed’s playing better defense and Fernando has options, I suspect Perez is headed to Iowa.

Is that based on Perez dropping that one ball today? You don’t think Perez has more upside than Johnson? Again…just because a player has options doesn’t mean the club HAS to use them. Reed needs to go. It’s another roster spot being taken up by someone who isn’t going to get any better…ie, Koyie Hill.

"I think part of a best friend's job should be to immediately clear your computer history if you die." - Anonymous

by Easy Ed on Mar 17, 2011 10:40 PM CDT up reply actions  

Perez has options.

Johnson doesn’t. Plus, I know I’m going to get flamed for this, but Johnson is a good clubhouse guy. This team needs that.

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by Al Yellon on Mar 17, 2011 10:50 PM CDT up reply actions  

I love the idea of Perez speed

in late inning situations, but maybe send him down where he can get regular at bats. Who knows maybe he finds his stroke, then when Soriano (or someone else) goes down bring him back up. That way we get both of them, if Perez does well after he is called up we can release Johnson then.

by jpeters407 on Mar 17, 2011 10:57 PM CDT up reply actions  

This

He needs to get reps, he’ll be done no favorites by sitting on the bench all year.

"What do you think, I just dunked my whole career?" Jordan asked Henderson after making a 3.
"You’ve got to miss eventually," Henderson told him.
"That’s what Cleveland said," replied Jordan

by MRubio52 on Mar 18, 2011 7:50 AM CDT up reply actions  

I appreciate you putting "or someone else" in parenthesis, but

we all know Soriano will go down first. It’s the Soriano way.

by mic on Mar 18, 2011 2:04 PM CDT up reply actions  

No Al, this team needs GOOD BASEBAL- FIELD GUYS.

Good grief it’s frustrating hearing this tired, outdated mantra from you when it comes to below-average players.

As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.

by santoswoodenlegs on Mar 17, 2011 11:21 PM CDT up reply actions   2 recs

You really don't get it, do you?

Just put together guys who have great numbers from the previous year. That worked real well with [name redacted], didn’t it?

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by Al Yellon on Mar 17, 2011 11:33 PM CDT up reply actions  

Wow...just...wow.

This is you’re counter-point? Milton Bradley? Yes, I don’t get it Al…and the thing I don’t get is how you can make that argument with a straight face.

As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.

by santoswoodenlegs on Mar 18, 2011 12:18 AM CDT up reply actions  

You can't call MB a good field guy.

It’s just not possible.

I didn't believe it last August, but it turns out that love survives.

State high point count: 3/50

If you are grouchy, irritable, or just plain mean, there will be a $10 charge for putting up with you.

by Vermont Cubs Fan on Mar 18, 2011 6:48 AM CDT up reply actions  

I wasn't.

Did you not understand what I was saying?

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by Al Yellon on Mar 18, 2011 7:53 AM CDT up reply actions  

C'mon, Al...really?

The “We Are Family” rant lived…and died…with the ‘79 Pirates, didn’t it? How many “good clubhouse guys” are needed on one team? Give me 25 a**holes who can win 95 games and contend for a championship. Nice guys are for the PGA Tour.

"I think part of a best friend's job should be to immediately clear your computer history if you die." - Anonymous

by Easy Ed on Mar 17, 2011 11:24 PM CDT up reply actions   2 recs

I'm not taking about "nice guys".

I’m talking about guys who can be leaders among their teammates. The Cubs have been woefully short of those the last two years.

Is that the be-all and end-all of winning? Of course not. But to pretend it doesn’t matter ignores reality. It does matter.

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by Al Yellon on Mar 17, 2011 11:35 PM CDT up reply actions  

"Nice guys finish last."

I didn't believe it last August, but it turns out that love survives.

State high point count: 3/50

If you are grouchy, irritable, or just plain mean, there will be a $10 charge for putting up with you.

by Vermont Cubs Fan on Mar 18, 2011 6:48 AM CDT up reply actions  

Yeah, Leo Durocher said that.

Actually, he didn’t say that. He said something LIKE that. In the 1930’s.

No one, not even me, is saying you need a team with “nice guys”. You need a team with LEADERS, good clubhouse people. Yes, you need the most talented people. I’m not convinced, off what I have seen, that Fernando Perez is more talented than Reed Johnson. Thus, the two having performed relatively equally in spring training, I take the good clubhouse guy, especially since the other guy has options left.

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by Al Yellon on Mar 18, 2011 7:52 AM CDT up reply actions  

Who

says Perez isn’t a “good clubhouse guy” anyway?

by Husker_1 on Mar 18, 2011 10:00 AM CDT up reply actions  

No one.

However, Johnson has been proven to be so, and is an eight year MLB veteran. Perez doesn’t have that kind of experience.

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by Al Yellon on Mar 18, 2011 10:09 AM CDT up reply actions  

yeah but...

How many leaders do we actually need on one team…?

Supposedly we have Demp, Woody, Byrd, Pena who are ALL leaders…

If you keep guys cause they are ALL leaders in the club house who follows them if they’re all leaders…

R.I.P. Ronnie Santo... you will be missed...

by Endrick on Mar 18, 2011 11:23 AM CDT up reply actions  

Agreed.

It’s more important that Reed is a veteran who can handle pressure situations/coming off the bench. The leadership thing is fine, but Reed was on the 2009 Cubs … a team which wasn’t exactly known for its strong leaders.

by elgato on Mar 18, 2011 11:27 AM CDT up reply actions  

So you get what I mean...

I mean to my mind you need a “Leader” with the fielders and a “Leader” on the pitching staff… Be that one of the pitchers or perhaps the starting catchers…

R.I.P. Ronnie Santo... you will be missed...

by Endrick on Mar 18, 2011 11:33 AM CDT up reply actions  

Yeah -- Reed shouldn't make the team because of leadership.

But there is an argument for why a veteran off the bench could be more useful than a rookie off the bench.

by elgato on Mar 18, 2011 12:38 PM CDT up reply actions  

Here's the problem with that Al

That would mean that Fernando Perez is a bad clubhouse guy, and from all indications that’s absolutely not true. In fact, the opposite would be true.

You aren’t making a decision between Reed Johnson and Todd Walker. It’s a choice between Johnson and Perez.

by Josh Timmers on Mar 17, 2011 11:33 PM CDT up reply actions  

I understand that.

Johnson has played well so far this spring. Perez hasn’t. It’s not a no-brainer decision, but I haven’t seen anything from Perez that makes me think he’d be anything more than a pinch-runner.

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by Al Yellon on Mar 17, 2011 11:34 PM CDT up reply actions  

How can you say he has played well if you upthread said he hasn't hit well at all

to the tune of .167?

Rays/Cubs - AnotherCubsBlog.net - @Manu_P_Mishra on Twitter

by Mish on Mar 18, 2011 8:26 AM CDT up reply actions  

You're right.

Johnson hasn’t really hit well either, though he has played better in the field than Perez. Also, the vaunted speed that Perez supposedly has? Haven’t seen it.

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by Al Yellon on Mar 18, 2011 8:52 AM CDT up reply actions  

What has

Perez done in the field that makes you think he hasn’t been any good?

by Husker_1 on Mar 18, 2011 10:01 AM CDT up reply actions  

And that's not the first ball he's misplayed this spring.

To be fair, this is his 1st spring training in AZ with the high skies.

Baseball is back!!

by cowsarecool220 on Mar 18, 2011 10:12 AM CDT up reply actions  

True.

There are two weeks left. Maybe Perez will outplay Johnson onto the roster. But right now, I think the job is Reed’s.

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by Al Yellon on Mar 18, 2011 10:26 AM CDT up reply actions  

I guess

It just doesn’t make sense to me. When you have the choice between two similar players, why not take the younger, faster one with more potential?

by Husker_1 on Mar 18, 2011 10:51 AM CDT up reply actions  

Because that one has options.

The Cubs can, in effect, keep both guys — if Perez goes to Iowa. It seems like the best option if there isn’t a clear favorite.

by elgato on Mar 18, 2011 10:58 AM CDT up reply actions  

I understand that.

But I also think there are already other players similar to RJ that will be starting in Iowa. Matt Camp, Adduci, Montanez. All those guys could be called up in case Perez is hurt and fill a spot as well as Reed IMO.

by Husker_1 on Mar 18, 2011 11:07 AM CDT up reply actions  

I don't know a ton about Camp ...

but can Adduci or Montanez play center?

There’s also the argument that a veteran will be a better pinch hitter coming off the bench. Reed has been in pressure situations before — so he won’t fold when he comes up with two outs in the ninth.

Note that I wouldn’t make this argument if Reed flat sucked (see Hill, Koyie). But Reed’s intangibles AND the fact that he is hitting about as well as the other main fifth OF candidate mean that I would rather bring Reed to Chicago.

Now, if Perez hits the crap out of the ball for the next week … well, then maybe he’s the guy to go North.

by elgato on Mar 18, 2011 11:23 AM CDT up reply actions  

I don't mind him

I just think there are better options.

I liked him in 08-09, just not 2011.

by Husker_1 on Mar 18, 2011 3:07 PM CDT up reply actions  

Well

it seems you already are making this argument when Reed flat sucks. He hasn’t done anything worth while this spring. It looks as though you’re argument for Reed is the same argument the cubs org. has for Hill.

The only way this is different is that Max and Wellington are hitting better than Koyie at the moment. Which I don’t exactly take to mean as much as some of you because this is only spring training. It’s hard to get consistent at-bats, especially if you’re a back-up.

I’d much rather go with the younger, higher upside guys to fill the roster.

by Husker_1 on Mar 18, 2011 3:15 PM CDT up reply actions  

But Perez has been about as bad at the plate.

It’s not just that Max and Wellington have been good — it’s that they’ve been MUCH better than Hill.

Meanwhile, Perez and Reed have been about as good at the plate this spring.

by elgato on Mar 18, 2011 3:21 PM CDT up reply actions  

Like I said....

It is hard to get consistent at-bats when you’re just a back-up in spring training. I don’t see why there is so much put into the batting averages of all these guys.

There’s no way Beef or Max would out-hit Hill this badly over the course of an entire season. Just like Perez and Reed probably wouldn’t hit this bad over a whole season.

I would much rather see the younger guys get the jobs. Reed and Koyie are not going to get any better.

by Husker_1 on Mar 18, 2011 3:38 PM CDT up reply actions  

And like I said, you're not addressing my point.

Which, I’m afraid, is a constant theme with you.

I’m with you on Hill, because Hill is so much worse as a hitter than Hill and Ramirez. But the fifth outfielder on the Chicago Cubs in 2011 will not get enough playing time for a young guy to get a shot. I doubt the Cubs’ fifth outfielder will get more than 30 starts, barring an injury to one of the four other outfielders.

So, the Cubs need to determine whether Johnson, a pinch-hitter with experience, or Perez, a pinch-runner with real speed, is more valuable. Given the fact that both guys have hit pretty poorly, that Perez has options and that the Cubs are lacking a veteran bat off the bench, there is a sound argument to keeping Reed.

by elgato on Mar 18, 2011 7:43 PM CDT up reply actions  

How did I not address you're point?

If I missed it I apologize so theirs no need for funny comments about that being normal for me?

All I am saying is I think Perez is the much better option because he is younger and has more potential to help the team, and he’s faster which should allow him to cover more ground in the outfield.

I can’t put much stock in terms like “good clubhouse guy”, and “veteren leadership” like some people are throwing around about him, because those things cannot be measured so they seem pretty irrelevant when deciding who should have the spot.

by Husker_1 on Mar 18, 2011 7:55 PM CDT up reply actions  

You're not even reading my comments, dude.

I have repeatedly said the leadership card is meaningless. But you fail to address the fact that Reed is a veteran who might be a better PH AND that Reed and Perez have both had pretty weak springs.

Earlier, you lumped Reed and Hill together, which is ridiculous. Hill is being out hit by his competition by a freaking mile. Reed isn’t.

But you just lumped the veterans together to make a weak point. That’s how you didn’t address my argument.

by elgato on Mar 18, 2011 9:28 PM CDT up reply actions  

Yes

Hill is being out hit by a mile, but I’m not going to put much into the ST batting average like you, because chances are they are not THAT much better than Hill. It’s ridiculous to think they would out hit him his bad over the course of a season.

And to you’re point, yes, it is possible Reed MIGHT be a better PH than Perez. But we won’t know that until Perez gets a shot. And I think he should get that shot because he’s younger and has more potential.

It seems you’re putting alot of stock into the batting averages for the catchers competition and ignoring them for the 5th outfielders competition.

by Husker_1 on Mar 18, 2011 10:49 PM CDT up reply actions  

No, I'm not.

Reed and Perez are both hitting between .150 and .200. That, in ST, isn’t very significant.

Hill is being out-hit by a country mile. I agree that ST numbers aren’t that significant. A small distinction can be overlooked — like the one between Perez and Reed.

by elgato on Mar 19, 2011 7:14 AM CDT up reply actions  

The "he has options" reason is absurd.

So, he has options and Reed Johnson doesn’t. He also has an upside and Reed Johnson doesn’t. He MAY have a future as a Cub for years to come…Reed Johnson doesn’t. Reed Johnson has experience…why does that matter? Everybody’s “golden child” Starlin Castro didn’t have any experience and he seemed to have done alright for himself. How does one get MLB experience…playing in AAA? Reed has an option, too. The option of taking the train or the plane outta town. Let’s see what the kid has.

"I think part of a best friend's job should be to immediately clear your computer history if you die." - Anonymous

by Easy Ed on Mar 18, 2011 12:52 PM CDT up reply actions  

A starting shortstop and the fifth outfielder are very different things, Ed.

It’s pretty common in the big leagues to like a guy like Lenny Harris or Daryle Ward on the end of your bench. Why? Because that guy knows pressure and can come up with a big pinch hit.

Young players rarely fill those roles. Which is why — combined with the fact that the Cubs have the option to keep Perez in the system if he doesn’t make the major league roster — Reed makes more sense in the big leagues if there isn’t a clear favorite after ST. And right now, there isn’t one.

If I might say so, you have an irrational objection to any past Cubs joining the team — one that doesn’t make a ton of sense. I think you get annoyed about this issue and often overlook key facts.

Hell, you could argue that Perez, a young player, would be better served by playing every day in Des Moines rather than riding the pine in Chicago. You want to see what the kid can do? Fine. But being the fifth outfielder on this team means you’ll pinch hit and be a defensive replacement. That’s not much of a tryout, IMO.

The only other thing to consider is defense. Now, if the Cubs keep Perez because his defense late in the game will be a bigger plus than Reed’s bat off the bench, then I’d be fine with the decision.

by elgato on Mar 18, 2011 1:05 PM CDT up reply actions  

Yeah, you're right, el...

…you can’t move forward if you keep taking steps backwards. They let Johnson go a few years ago because they had no use for him. What’s changed? Nothing. He’s older, he’s slower AND he’s barely hitting his weight in ST. Although I was against it at the time, I’m now fine with Wood coming back, because, he has a different role with this team. Johnson doesn’t. Anyway, the 5th OF spot isn’t going to make or break this team either way, but, I’d rather see the kid get it…but, that’s just me.

"I think part of a best friend's job should be to immediately clear your computer history if you die." - Anonymous

by Easy Ed on Mar 18, 2011 1:57 PM CDT up reply actions  

Well, two things:

They kicked Reed away after 2009 because he wanted a lot of money. The Cubs, rightly, didn’t give it to him. Going into 2010, he would have been the team’s fourth outfielder — not fifth, as he probably will be in two weeks.

If Perez had been far superior to Reed this spring, I’d be right there with you. But his sub-.200 average makes me think that a) he won’t be that much more valuable than Reed in Chicago and b) he could use more at-bats in Iowa.

And he has options. If Perez didn’t, I’d say keep him.

by elgato on Mar 18, 2011 2:00 PM CDT up reply actions  

We're going to count one error against him?

I mean, come one, TJ. I’m in Reed’s camp, too, at this point. But is there a body of evidence that shows that Perez sucks defensively?

If there is — and I’ve missed it — I apologize.

by elgato on Mar 18, 2011 2:55 PM CDT up reply actions  

And....

Reed is hitting so much better?

by Husker_1 on Mar 18, 2011 2:57 PM CDT up reply actions  

Love it

The “I know I’m going to get flamed” is its own version of good TV.

Thanks Al. I love my wife but I would never dare admit what she is watching at this moment.

"Hey.....Cubs win!!!" ---Harry
"Swung on belted!!!"---Chip

by Hammer on Mar 17, 2011 11:50 PM CDT up reply actions  

I hear Albert Pujols is a good clubhouse guy...

"The riches of the game are in the thrills, not the money." --Ernie Banks

by dtpollitt on Mar 18, 2011 12:24 AM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

I dunno

I saw him get angry after a K once…I dont want him now

by hansman1982 on Mar 18, 2011 8:28 AM CDT up reply actions  

how do options work

does a minor leaguer get 5 options and if they are used in one year, boom goes the dynamite? Or is it that the club has X years to send down and call up a guy?

by hansman1982 on Mar 18, 2011 8:27 AM CDT up reply actions  

Usually 3 options, you can send a player down to the minors three times before he has to be DFAd.

"What do you think, I just dunked my whole career?" Jordan asked Henderson after making a 3.
"You’ve got to miss eventually," Henderson told him.
"That’s what Cleveland said," replied Jordan

by MRubio52 on Mar 18, 2011 8:30 AM CDT up reply actions  

Wikipedia sayeth

If a player is on the 40-man roster but not on the active major league roster, he is said to be on optional assignment—his organization may freely move him between the major league club and the minor league club. If a player is on the 40-man roster and not the active 25 man roster for any part of more than three seasons (in which he spent 20 or more total days of service in the minors), he is out of options and may not be assigned to the minors without first clearing waivers. However, if a player has less than 5 years of professional experience, he may be optioned to the minors in a fourth season without being subject to waivers. If a major league player is ineligible for free agency and “has options” remaining, his team may option him to a minor league team without consequence. This is usually what is meant when players are “sent down” to the minors. Likewise, when a player on the 40-man roster is added to the active major league roster, he is “called up” to the majors.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Major_League_Baseball_transactions

"Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have?" -Frank Chance
"If [Ruth] had [called his shot], I would have knocked him down with the next pitch." -Charlie Root

by Clutch16 on Mar 18, 2011 8:41 AM CDT up reply actions  

I think I'm with Al on this one.

I wouldn’t be if Perez didn’t have options or if Perez had been really strong this spring. But I think Reed will be more useful as a pinch hitter, mainly because he’s been in more pressure situations throughout his career.

I don’t discount the clubhouse factor, but I don’t think it’s THAT big a deal either. Anyway, if Reed really can’t hit for crap anymore, Perez can be in Chicago in May.

by elgato on Mar 18, 2011 8:35 AM CDT up reply actions  

Um, no.

Hill won’t be used as a bat off the bench. Reed would be. Plus, do you think Reed is as bad as Hill is now? I sure as hell don’t.

by elgato on Mar 18, 2011 8:41 AM CDT up reply actions  

I wonder

if any other team’s fans argue so much about who is going to ride the pine?

"There had to be a place where the game could be fun again….that place is called Wrigley Field"---Andre Dawson

by epsilon on Mar 18, 2011 8:43 AM CDT up reply actions  

I know.

Essentially, we Cubs fans suffer from 100+ years of not getting laid (in a baseball sense). So we’re a little tense and obsessive.

by elgato on Mar 18, 2011 8:47 AM CDT up reply actions  

LOL

True, I suppose.

Check out Chicago sports coverage at SB Nation Chicago

by Al Yellon on Mar 18, 2011 8:52 AM CDT up reply actions  

LOL

At least he doesn’t have to this year, since we have other choices.

Check out Chicago sports coverage at SB Nation Chicago

by Al Yellon on Mar 18, 2011 8:58 AM CDT up reply actions  

waaaaay too many choices...

"There had to be a place where the game could be fun again….that place is called Wrigley Field"---Andre Dawson

by epsilon on Mar 18, 2011 9:20 AM CDT up reply actions  

clarification...

waaaaaay too many mediocre choices.

"There had to be a place where the game could be fun again….that place is called Wrigley Field"---Andre Dawson

by epsilon on Mar 18, 2011 9:22 AM CDT up reply actions  

Actually ...

I bet Baker gets a little outfield time this year.

by elgato on Mar 18, 2011 11:06 AM CDT up reply actions  

Why?

The Cubs will have five competent outfielders, and Baker has a reasonably well defined role.

I know you’ve been beating the “Baker for OF” drum for two years now, but it just seems unnecessary.

Check out Chicago sports coverage at SB Nation Chicago

by Al Yellon on Mar 18, 2011 11:43 AM CDT up reply actions  

Between 2B and 3B (when ARam invariably gets hurts) and a few starts at 1B...

… I think Baker will get his reps in.

However, the chances of him seeing some OF time improve if Cubs keep Perez instead of Reed as 5th OF. Logic there being Quade might be more inclined to keep Perez on the bench longer in case he’s needed to pinch-run in a key late-inning situation. So if a need for a OF substitution arises in say, the 6th or 7th inning – maybe Baker gets the call.

Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."

by ballhawk on Mar 18, 2011 12:06 PM CDT up reply actions  

Yeah, that's what I was thinking.

Baker can be the team’s sixth outfielder.

Note that I’m not beating the drum that he SHOULD play outfield, just that I think he can and will in a pinch.

by elgato on Mar 18, 2011 12:40 PM CDT up reply actions  

But are we "masters of our domain"? ;-)

Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."

by ballhawk on Mar 18, 2011 8:54 AM CDT up reply actions  

Well, I admit I was pretty happy when the Red Sox won the World Series

so in the words of Kramer, I guess…

“IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII’mmmmmmmmmmm out!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!”

(slaps money on the counter)

Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."

by ballhawk on Mar 18, 2011 9:05 AM CDT up reply actions  

Thanks Al

It appears I misread an article elsewhere. I was suspicious of this and shoulda verified thru stats… I’m a victim of wishful thinking!

I didn't understand the "white-collar Cub fans", "blue-collar Sox fans" until much later in life. Harry Smith~ "For Cubs Fans Only".

by jeffstorm2 on Mar 18, 2011 5:34 AM CDT up reply actions  

I just re-read other thread

I either misread (likely) or there was an error & edit. In any case, sorry for misinformation. I figured that if Reed had hit 5 hrs in 30abs, he’d be our next steroid rumor! (I gotta go to bed earlier!) :]

I didn't understand the "white-collar Cub fans", "blue-collar Sox fans" until much later in life. Harry Smith~ "For Cubs Fans Only".

by jeffstorm2 on Mar 18, 2011 5:57 AM CDT up reply actions  

Wishing all the BCBers a

Happy & Safe St. Pattys Day! You too TJ11!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! g’nite.

I didn't understand the "white-collar Cub fans", "blue-collar Sox fans" until much later in life. Harry Smith~ "For Cubs Fans Only".

by jeffstorm2 on Mar 17, 2011 9:10 PM CDT reply actions  

I leave you with

this sequence from “The Fugitive”

I didn't believe it last August, but it turns out that love survives.

State high point count: 3/50

If you are grouchy, irritable, or just plain mean, there will be a $10 charge for putting up with you.

by Vermont Cubs Fan on Mar 17, 2011 9:15 PM CDT up reply actions  

Good stuff VCF

I hope the cubs season doesn’t vanish as well as Harriso Ford! G’nite.

I didn't understand the "white-collar Cub fans", "blue-collar Sox fans" until much later in life. Harry Smith~ "For Cubs Fans Only".

by jeffstorm2 on Mar 17, 2011 9:20 PM CDT up reply actions  

I'd read that sequence was a cappella,

And that you can see Richard Daley and Roland Burris in that.

I had heard the yells at 1:36 and 1:37 in that video, but I never knew until I found this clip that those were guys who had recognized Tommy Lee Jones and were calling his name.

I didn't believe it last August, but it turns out that love survives.

State high point count: 3/50

If you are grouchy, irritable, or just plain mean, there will be a $10 charge for putting up with you.

by Vermont Cubs Fan on Mar 17, 2011 9:22 PM CDT up reply actions  

Thank you!!!

I hope you had a good day as well!!!!

by TJ11 on Mar 17, 2011 9:19 PM CDT up reply actions  

TJ11

Your Dogs OBP please? :]

I didn't understand the "white-collar Cub fans", "blue-collar Sox fans" until much later in life. Harry Smith~ "For Cubs Fans Only".

by jeffstorm2 on Mar 17, 2011 9:21 PM CDT up reply actions  

Hmmm...

a lot of walks is what’s missing for cubs! Can she steal as well???

I didn't understand the "white-collar Cub fans", "blue-collar Sox fans" until much later in life. Harry Smith~ "For Cubs Fans Only".

by jeffstorm2 on Mar 17, 2011 9:23 PM CDT up reply actions  

SIGN HER UP!!!!

I didn't believe it last August, but it turns out that love survives.

State high point count: 3/50

If you are grouchy, irritable, or just plain mean, there will be a $10 charge for putting up with you.

by Vermont Cubs Fan on Mar 17, 2011 9:29 PM CDT up reply actions  

She is also very fast!!!!

But like Sori and ARam, she can be very lazy….

But she is not a rookie dog so that should not matter on this team!!!!

by TJ11 on Mar 17, 2011 9:32 PM CDT up reply actions  

Strange Brew reference must be entered here

“Beauty catch, wonder is she can hit!

By all that's holy, I am going to attend the 2012 Randy Hundley Fantasy Camp.

by VegasCubFan on Mar 17, 2011 10:03 PM CDT up reply actions  

But can she catch a flying frisbee?

Also, on a more serious note, what kind of dog is she?

I didn't believe it last August, but it turns out that love survives.

State high point count: 3/50

If you are grouchy, irritable, or just plain mean, there will be a $10 charge for putting up with you.

by Vermont Cubs Fan on Mar 17, 2011 10:04 PM CDT up reply actions  

Your dog's BA, please?

How about OPS? Slugging? RBI? XBH?

I didn't believe it last August, but it turns out that love survives.

State high point count: 3/50

If you are grouchy, irritable, or just plain mean, there will be a $10 charge for putting up with you.

by Vermont Cubs Fan on Mar 17, 2011 9:23 PM CDT up reply actions  

To be fair

Omar Minaya offered his dog a $500,000 bonus. He decided to go to college instead of playing for the Mets.

by Josh Timmers on Mar 17, 2011 9:25 PM CDT up reply actions  

LOL.

I didn't believe it last August, but it turns out that love survives.

State high point count: 3/50

If you are grouchy, irritable, or just plain mean, there will be a $10 charge for putting up with you.

by Vermont Cubs Fan on Mar 17, 2011 9:25 PM CDT up reply actions  

I hear dog wanted a Cubs signing with Jim Hendry

12 yrs at 12mil per 3 yr PO and a NTC…but can’t verify this…

I didn't understand the "white-collar Cub fans", "blue-collar Sox fans" until much later in life. Harry Smith~ "For Cubs Fans Only".

by jeffstorm2 on Mar 17, 2011 9:28 PM CDT up reply actions  

She is currently working out a contract right now with Ricketts....

She met Todd when he was working undercover at the pound!!!!

by TJ11 on Mar 17, 2011 9:30 PM CDT up reply actions  

Good Times in 2012 can't be far behind!

Gotta get up 5am, Good-Nite my friend. Play safely tonite. Jeff

I didn't understand the "white-collar Cub fans", "blue-collar Sox fans" until much later in life. Harry Smith~ "For Cubs Fans Only".

by jeffstorm2 on Mar 17, 2011 9:33 PM CDT up reply actions  

She didn't want to spend a year on the DL?

Smart dog.

"Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have?" -Frank Chance
"If [Ruth] had [called his shot], I would have knocked him down with the next pitch." -Charlie Root

by Clutch16 on Mar 18, 2011 8:12 AM CDT up reply actions  

Most important of all - is she left-pawed?

Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."

by ballhawk on Mar 17, 2011 11:08 PM CDT up reply actions  

Switch of course!!!!!

She is also fixed so none of the those pesky pregnancy problems like in the WNBA!!!!

by TJ11 on Mar 18, 2011 6:55 AM CDT up reply actions  

How about this news
Shaun Marcum had to come out of his start today with shoulder tightness; his manager acknowledges concern about this problem. Not good.

From Buster Olney

by Josh Timmers on Mar 17, 2011 9:20 PM CDT reply actions  

There is a Brewers fan at work

he is in denial about the health of his pitching staff.

By all that's holy, I am going to attend the 2012 Randy Hundley Fantasy Camp.

by VegasCubFan on Mar 17, 2011 10:31 PM CDT up reply actions  

As a baseball fan

big fan of Gallardo

"Hey.....Cubs win!!!" ---Harry
"Swung on belted!!!"---Chip

by Hammer on Mar 17, 2011 11:56 PM CDT up reply actions  

Me too.

He won me over when he tore up his knee but stayed in the game at Wrigley.

Baseball is back!!

by cowsarecool220 on Mar 18, 2011 8:20 AM CDT up reply actions  

And the Cubs luck continues for some strange reason.

"What do you think, I just dunked my whole career?" Jordan asked Henderson after making a 3.
"You’ve got to miss eventually," Henderson told him.
"That’s what Cleveland said," replied Jordan

by MRubio52 on Mar 18, 2011 7:53 AM CDT up reply actions  

Let's credit Hill

He’s gotta be good for something

"Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have?" -Frank Chance
"If [Ruth] had [called his shot], I would have knocked him down with the next pitch." -Charlie Root

by Clutch16 on Mar 18, 2011 8:13 AM CDT up reply actions  

Don't jinx it

I think it was 2009 where the Cubs broke camp with no one on the DL, then as soon as the season started out came the medics.

by timmyfan on Mar 18, 2011 8:16 AM CDT up reply actions  

With this squad

a coupla DL stints might be a blessing in disguise.

"What do you think, I just dunked my whole career?" Jordan asked Henderson after making a 3.
"You’ve got to miss eventually," Henderson told him.
"That’s what Cleveland said," replied Jordan

by MRubio52 on Mar 18, 2011 8:17 AM CDT up reply actions  

lets hope that

luck doesnt factor in – there is another Wisconsin team that had a ton of injuries but still managed to win a couple games

by hansman1982 on Mar 18, 2011 8:31 AM CDT up reply actions  

Perez needs at bats.

He’ll get them in Iowa. Midseason call up if Johnson tanks.

We can use his speed. If he hits.

by Clark Addison on Mar 17, 2011 11:43 PM CDT reply actions  

That's the way I see it.

If Perez starts hitting the rest of the spring, it might be a different story. But as of now, since neither of them is hitting, I go with the experienced guy.

Check out Chicago sports coverage at SB Nation Chicago

by Al Yellon on Mar 18, 2011 12:00 AM CDT up reply actions  

Why is it that the team

is reduced to so many bad choices? I guess we’re about to go into the season with way too many good clubhouse guys and too few good players.

If a quality pitching start is 3 runs and 6 innings, then a quality hitting day is 1 for 4.

by tharr on Mar 18, 2011 12:36 AM CDT up reply actions  

We are talking about a fifth outfielder

If they were any good, they’d be fourth outfielders or starters.

by Josh Timmers on Mar 18, 2011 1:54 AM CDT up reply actions  

and I think most teams

have these kinds of problems at the back end of the roster – just people dont follow all of the other teams as closely as we do

by hansman1982 on Mar 18, 2011 8:31 AM CDT up reply actions  

Luckily they do not have any issues at other positions!!!

They are good at,

2b
backup C
bullpen
5th starter
leadoff
team speed
defense
front office ability
ownership
attendance

Everything else is up up up!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Just need to solve the 5th OF spot!!!!!

Everything else has been taken care of by this fine organization!!!!!

by TJ11 on Mar 18, 2011 8:36 AM CDT up reply actions  

I understand that

but we seem to be choosing too many players to make up the roster based upon other factors than “they earned the spot”.

If a quality pitching start is 3 runs and 6 innings, then a quality hitting day is 1 for 4.

by tharr on Mar 18, 2011 1:36 PM CDT up reply actions  

Has Perez really outplayed Reed?

Their numbers are pretty similar this ST. I’m not sure either guy has really earned the spot. The Cubs really are picking between Perez’s upside and Johnson veteran abilities (like experience coming off the bench).

by elgato on Mar 18, 2011 1:49 PM CDT up reply actions  

Because you should give a young guy ...

a chance to ride the pine for six months, apparently.

Either that, or in protest over the idea of veteran leadership and clubhouse chemistry or bringing former Cubs back.

And note that I’m not advocating keeping Reed for leadership. Reed’s leadership wasn’t exactly strong during 2009. But I am for bringing back Reed for the following reasons.

a) He has basically hit as well as Perez this ST.
b) Historically, veterans are better bats off the bench, and we know Reed can deliver in the clutch. At least, we know he could.
c) Perez has options.

by elgato on Mar 18, 2011 9:31 PM CDT up reply actions  

I am with you

Keep Reed on the major league roster and send Perez to the minors…now I think Hendry will keep Perez and lett Reed have a career year with a different org but that is a different debate for a different day

by hansman1982 on Mar 20, 2011 12:32 AM CDT up reply actions  

The thing is, there's a reason to go with the experienced guy beyond the clubhouse.

Traditionally, experienced guys are better in pinch-hitting situations. In other words, Reed should be more valuable in a late-inning at-bat than Perez. And Reed does know how to handle the Wrigley pressure.

So, I’d bring Reed to Chicago. If he can’t pinch hit or hit at all by May, the Cubs can release him and bring up Perez.

by elgato on Mar 18, 2011 8:39 AM CDT up reply actions  

That's what I was saying above, too.

I forgot to mention the pinch-hitting part.

by elgato on Mar 18, 2011 8:43 AM CDT up reply actions  

Exactly.

I’m not arguing that Reed Johnson is a great player. Clearly, he is not. But as noted, we are talking fifth outfielder. Johnson has done that role, and done it fairly well. If he doesn’t do it after a couple of months, the Cubs will have another option in Perez, right there at Iowa.

Check out Chicago sports coverage at SB Nation Chicago

by Al Yellon on Mar 18, 2011 8:54 AM CDT up reply actions  

Agreed.

Check out Chicago sports coverage at SB Nation Chicago

by Al Yellon on Mar 18, 2011 8:58 AM CDT up reply actions  

Late innings, bases loaded, score's tied - I want Reed Johnson at the plate.

Quade wouldn’t have to say a word to him – Reed knows what to do. He can “Ron Hunt” with the best of them. I don’t see Perez doing that…

Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."

by ballhawk on Mar 18, 2011 9:00 AM CDT up reply actions  

Reed did exactly that on June 12, 2008.

Sent up to PH for Jim Edmonds in the bottom of the 11th with the bases loaded, he got hit by Jeff Ridgway’s first pitch for a walkoff win.

Boxscore

Reed has 102 HBP in his career and led the AL in 2006 with 21.

Check out Chicago sports coverage at SB Nation Chicago

by Al Yellon on Mar 18, 2011 9:05 AM CDT up reply actions  

What about down a run?

Hitting while tied (where failing means extra innings) or hitting while down a run (where failing means a loss) are different scenarios. I think I’d want a fat guy who can crowd the plate and take one for the team. Let’s sign Mo Vaughn!

by timmyfan on Mar 18, 2011 9:31 AM CDT up reply actions  

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