Reds 14, Cubs 13: Some Choices Seem Obvious
by Al Yellon on Mar 18, 2011 7:55 PM CDT
in Chicago Cubs Recaps
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PrintMESA, Arizona -- Well, we can't say we weren't entertained on Friday, but after the Cubs lost 14-13 to the Reds, there are some roster decisions that are so blindingly obvious, at least to me. So let's run them down before talking more about the game, which drew 13,182, the fourth-largest crowd in the history of HoHoKam Park (looks like the spring-breakers are here, but even with that attendance figure, there were scattered empty seats. Scalpers were getting $20 and up for lawn tickets today, from what I heard. Other parks also had good crowds today). At least this was a three-and-a-half hour game that had significant action -- 27 runs and 40 hits.
First of all, Jim Hendry and Mike Quade: can we please declare the Carlos Silva Era over? Silva got hit hard. Really hard. He faced 21 batters. 11 of them got hit, one more walked, and four others hit long fly-ball outs. Only because of a couple of errors, one by Alfonso Soriano -- a horrendous throw in the general direction of second base -- and one by Matt Camp, did Silva's ERA not soar high into the hazy 86-degree skies over Mesa. It's 15.88 after 11.1 spring innings in which he has allowed 29 (!) hits and a pair of walks. If you are counting, that's a WHIP of 2.74. That's not just bad, that's horrific. For a comparison point, the highest WHIP for any ERA qualifying pitcher over a full season in the last 70 years is 1.785, by Mike Hampton in 2002. What Silva has done so far this spring is nearly a full baserunner per inning higher than that.
I don't have figures here, and I don't think spring training stats exist that far back, but I remember Fergie Jenkins throwing for the Cubs in spring training in 1984, the first spring I attended. He looked just about as bad as Silva does now, and was coming off a mediocre 1983 season (after a nice comeback to the Cubs in 1982). Now, money wasn't what it is now, but sentiment played no part in keeping Fergie. He was released by the Cubs 27 years ago tomorrow, March 19, 1984.
I would argue that even though it will cost the Cubs $7.5 million (that's $11.5 million for this year, a $2 million buyout for 2012, less the $6 million of Silva's deal the Mariners are paying this year), it's time to bite the bullet and just let him go. If there were any scouts watching today, they had to be less than impressed. The Mets ate $6 million today when they let Luis Castillo go. Yes, it's a lot of money, but Carlos Silva simply cannot help this team; he can only hurt it. There are several pitchers in camp who can give good performance, maybe even $6 million worth, for a lot less money. Just do it, Jim. Let him go.
The Cubs generated as much offense today as we've seen combined over the last week or so. Some highlights: Starlin Castro hit another monstrous home run, his fourth of the spring, nearly into the parking lot in left-center field; Carlos Pena had three hits and is now hitting .297; Blake DeWitt was 1-for-5, but drove in three runs; Darwin Barney had three hits and walked twice; and Aramis Ramirez had a pair of hits.
Pitching? Not so much. Carlos Zambrano gave up long home runs to Joey Votto and Scott Rolen, the latter of which was caught on the fly only a few feet in front of our group on the left field berm. A throwback ball went back on the field. Z said, according to a Carrie Muskat tweet: "Thank God, we play in Chicago and not Arizona. It's better air." Well, that's only part of it. I thought Z was throwing real well in the first two innings, with good pop on his fastball and good movement; at least the home runs were allowed to legitimate home run hitters.
As far as other roster choices, Fernando Perez again looked tentative in center field, not making any errors but letting catchable balls drop in front of him. Reed Johnson, playing left after Soriano left the game, made a couple of nice running catches. Both hitters went 1-for-2; Perez is hitting .200, Johnson .188. Perez seems to have one tool -- speed, and it doesn't really show in the outfield, just on the bases. Me, I'll take Reed Johnson.
And Welington Castillo had a pair of hits after he replaced Geovany Soto. He is hitting .733 (11-for-15) this spring with a double, a HR and five RBI. Seriously, how hard is this decision? I know Koyie Hill is well-liked and works hard; we've heard this over and over and over and... still, Hill cannot hit at all. Castillo isn't going to hit .733, obviously -- but why waste this kind of performance starting at Iowa? If he's not great with the pitchers, then work with him so he gets that way. The Cubs can't afford to have a black hole in the lineup every time Soto doesn't play. Thank Koyie for his service and offer him a coaching position in the organization -- I think he could be a real good one.
One final complaint -- in the ninth inning, after Barney walked on four pitches to load the bases with two out, Kosuke Fukudome swung at the first pitch to ground out to end the game. You'd have thought he might have taken a pitch or two from a pitcher whose control wasn't great.
Tomorrow, Matt Garza gets the ball again as the Cubs go to Peoria Sports Complex -- that's where he made his last start on Monday. This time it'll be against the Padres in a game that will be heard on WGN radio and seen on WGN-TV. A familiar face to us in the NL Central, ex-Red Aaron Harang, gets the start for San Diego, with Cory Luebke, another rotation candidate for the Pads, likely to throw most of the rest of the innings.
But please. Let us hear tomorrow that Carlos Silva has been released. Time to acknowledge the good half-year he gave the Cubs, but that the experiment is over.
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Choices
Wasn’t Silva awful in Spring last year? I’m not sure if it lasted the whole spring but I remember he was hit hard early? I’m ambiguous either way on his fate.
On the other hand, we’ve seen it too many times where a player like Hill makes the team and only later in the year around late May or June will Castillo be called up and we will get about 1000% more production out of him than we did from Hill.
I would prefer Johnson over Perez also, but that move isn’t going to make or break the team either.
No, actually, Silva was quite good last spring.
He had a bad first outing, but after that, he was pretty good.
This year he has been bad.
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tactical roster decisions will reflect strategic organizational decisions
Let us face it, unless or until the Cubs make a major roster move, (trade or call up); this is 3+/- .500 team. (85-78 wins, depending on injuries, performance and intangibles)…so a decision like cutting bait on $7.5M is a big message to the clubhouse.
Koyie Hill is about Castillo simply beating him out and deserving the spot but also pushing Soto.
Johnson is a vanilla move in that Perez needs to go to AAA and learn his craft (defense) and regarding Barney that is a no brainer at all.
The question really is whether the Cubs could engineer a trade with Fukudome and now DeWitt something of value…
Piniella: "This is a tougher job than I thought it would be, I'm going to be honest with you."
As I understand,
Beef is ticketed to Iowa because the Cubs want him to work on his catching. That makes sense to me, he’ll spend most of the time sitting on the bench with the Cubs. Send him to Iowa to play everyday and if anything happens to Geo, you could call him up.
I think the real debate is Koyie vs. Max. My question is, why haven’t the Cubs given Max more of a chance to win a job? That’s what’s puzzling to me.
Baseball is back!!
I suppose that makes some sense.
But only if Geo plays 95% of the games for the first two months. Then, maybe you could call up Beef and let Hill go at that time.
I have no idea why Max Ramirez hasn’t gotten more opportunity.
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I still don't understand why Beef didn't play alot down the stretch last year
except for Quade was trying to win the full time job and wanted to use a veteran player. Hendry should have stepped in and made him play Beef if this was what was going on.
by LT on Mar 18, 2011 8:38 PM CDT up reply actions
why even keep Ramirez and Castillo around?
Obviously on day one they decided Hill was there guy. This organization has a problem with admitting its mistakes. Silva and Hill are dead weight. Also Barney should get a shot at 2nd with Baker platooning. I feel like Barney is gonna be close to Dewitt’s numbers and make up for it with solid defense at SS and 2nd. Barney Stats have been trending upward and with the extra muscle I think hell be suitable 8th batter.
admitting mistakes
Hendry never makes mistakes, Koyie “pond” Hill is proof of that.
By all that's holy, I am going to attend the 2012 Randy Hundley Fantasy Camp.
by VegasCubFan on Mar 18, 2011 10:21 PM CDT up reply actions
And now...
… he needs to admit that the fix for Bradley, while it worked for half a season, no longer does.
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I think
Quade/Hendry could lose a little credibility giving a roster spot to Hill. You can’t tell players that the best 25 are going to Chicago, and that they need to bust their but in spring training then give a spot to a guy hitting .188 with below average defense over a younger guy hitting north of .700 in Beef or a guy who can play multiple positions in Ramirez.
DEJESUS!!!
Hill isn't hitting .188.
He’s hitting .042. (Which proves your point even further.)
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Except
If someone guaranteed a spot before ST had a lousy ST, he’ll still make the team. Back-up C didn’t appear to be an open spot in January, so a lousy ST isn’t likely to change that. Garza hasn’t looked good, for example. He’s not going to lose his spot. I’m not saying Hill should have had a guaranteed spot, but I think that he did.
by Shanghai Badger on Mar 19, 2011 9:18 AM CDT up reply actions
Hill's ST isn't "lousy".
It’s pathetically bad.
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I don't disagree
But I don’t think it was a competition. I think it was his job when he signed the contract.
by Shanghai Badger on Mar 19, 2011 9:41 AM CDT up reply actions
I'm pretty sure that none of us get to make that decision
I’ll bet you $25 that he’s on the roster April 1, proceeds to Cubs Care. I’m not saying that he should be, but he will be.
by Shanghai Badger on Mar 19, 2011 11:18 AM CDT up reply actions
Maybe Hill will do the right thing and offer to retire from playing...
… and they can offer him that coaching job.
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Would it be the right thing for his family?
And, if he really believes that he can play, why shouldn’t he try?
Again, I think that they could do better, and I said so to Hendry at the convention — but I doubt that his spring training is going to change anything.
by Shanghai Badger on Mar 19, 2011 1:46 PM CDT up reply actions
I know Hendry is loyal to a fault.
And Hill probably thinks he can still play.
Both of those things fly in the face of reality.
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Hill was a good story at one time...
The hand incident that happened a few years ago created this monster. The media has worn that story out enough. Although it’s not as much as I’ve heard last year, I’ve heard the story a few times this spring. I don’t know if people feel sorry for him or what it is, but that’s the only thing I can come up with. There is nothing else I can come up with to justify leaving a guy that is hitting .042 on the 25 man roster.
by alabamacubbie on Mar 19, 2011 11:36 AM CDT up reply actions
Regarding Silva, I'm glad you see...
…finally see the light. Release the bum.
by troutfishin on Mar 18, 2011 8:10 PM CDT reply actions 1 recs
I thought it was worth giving him another chance.
He blew it.
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Also have to agree regarding Hill
People have said what a smart baseball guy Quade is, well Hills lack of any discernible skills this spring has to be a great contrast for Quade when seeing Castillo play. It’s obvious to us, but Hendry and Quade have got to start making the tough decisions.
Agree.
As was said somewhere else on this site in a comment: Hendry is very loyal. That is both his best quality, and his worst.
It’s time for loyalty to take a back seat.
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Hell
He can stay loyal and still get Hill off the 25 man roster. Like you said, coaching seems to be his future.
That would seem to be the logical thing to do.
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Let the record show that I agreed with Husker, also.
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This was in Muskat article
“Quade is very hands on. For example, he was in Phoenix on Tuesday for a split-squad game and heard about a mental mistake catcher Geovany Soto made in a play in the game in Mesa that day. Quade had Soto go over the play in hopes of avoiding the mistake again. "
I’m happy he’s working w/ Soto but that is the example in the article? What about Hill???
''"I always thought I was the most competitive person out there. I never thought I'd find anybody more competitive until I met him.'' Ryan Dempster talking about Ted Lilly
by Madison Cub Fan on Mar 18, 2011 9:27 PM CDT up reply actions
Silva deserved a chance this spring
and now he has had his chance and it’s time to part ways.
I always turn to the sports section first. The sports page records people's accomplishments; the front page has nothing but man's failures.
~Earl Warren
by lookingdeadred on Mar 19, 2011 9:57 AM CDT up reply actions
Gotta agree with you Al
Time for the Cubs and Silva to part ways
Keep that Q Train rollin' in '11. Let's win it for Ronnie.
I love the soap opera
of ST. It could get me up in the morning. Baseball is great = nuff said.
"Hey.....Cubs win!!!" ---Harry
"Swung on belted!!!"---Chip
Hmmm... Jenkins had a great many years as a viable SP for Cubs...
Silva, about half a season. Lets cut out any “sentimental talk” (as none should exist) and show Silva the door…quickly. Enough is enough. Theres no sign of improvement, in fact, he may be getting worse. (I’m almost thankful work has caused me to miss 95% of Spring Training!)
I didn't understand the "white-collar Cub fans", "blue-collar Sox fans" until much later in life. Harry Smith~ "For Cubs Fans Only".
If 11-15
does not get you on the team -—- (enter blasphemous comment here)
“Hey Dad – I am dominating but that kid Koy knows the coach – its just not fair Dad!!”
Koyie – go home.
"Hey.....Cubs win!!!" ---Harry
"Swung on belted!!!"---Chip
I'm still amazed anybody was bullish on Silva three weeks ago.
Overweight pitchers with long injury histories, attitude issues and one good three-month stretch in four years does not a safe bet make.
A dude who seemed to be Silva’s freaking lawyer took me to task — saying Silva was a victim of poor Seattle defense, bad luck and every other excuse in the book.
Where’s that guy now?
I am not that guy
but I was a hold on Silva a couple of weeks ago – now I am in full on sell mode – this is what ST is for – seeing who has what in games that mean even less than last fall’s “garbage” time Quade got
I totally agree with you.
And, of course, I was hoping to be wrong about Silva. What’s amazing is that so many people were so optimistic about the guy.
Sorry, hans. I know this wasn’t you. But I was called ‘ignorant’ by some goofball who seemed to be Silva’s publicist. I’m still a little sore, obviously.
I was fairly optimistic
but I also saw the other side…we have the spokesman for KFC who about had a heart attack on the mound last year show up to camp in about the same shape you were last year…you had a long rope but your laziness cut it in half
Al, if I were in Hendry's shoes
I would bring him into my office and let him know that I was putting him on waivers so I could send his ass to extended spring training and if I had my way he would never see a professional mound again…it would go a little something like this…
Seriously, Carlos, my training staff had to practically use the jaws of life to get you off the mound last July and we shut you down for your health and you decide to show up to Spring Training where, may I add, you are fighting for a job, in the same exact shape you were in when we air-flighted you out of Rockies Stadium last summer…I mean, kudos to you to putting down that third twinkee everyday but seriously, I would be inclined to at least start you in the #5 slot had you put an ounce of effort into your offseason regime beyond pushing the shopping cart past the 1st aisle and into the 4th aisle…you know the one you call the “Jackpot Aisle”. Comeon Carlos, thank you for wasting our time.
by hansman1982 on Mar 20, 2011 12:39 AM CDT up reply actions
I'll be forever grateful to Silva for not being Milton Bradley
Anything we got from Silva was a bonus and he gave us a good first half last year beyond the most reasonable expectations. I, for one, am totally content with that. Eat the rest of the contract with a smile knowing we got some wins out of Carlos freaking Silva in exchange for getting rid of a major liability.
14-13?
Obviously Robbie Gould didn’t play…
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
by ballhawk on Mar 18, 2011 8:40 PM CDT reply actions 1 recs
Looks like Paul Edinger got to play instead.
I didn't believe it last August, but it turns out that love survives.
State high point count: 3/50
If you are grouchy, irritable, or just plain mean, there will be a $10 charge for putting up with you.
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Mar 18, 2011 8:42 PM CDT up reply actions
ESPN article about Luis Castillo:
Although Castillo refused to confirm this, a source told ESPNdeportes.com that the Chicago Cubs, Philadelphia Phillies and Florida Marlins are interested in the services of a player.
Please, no. Castillo is done. His speed is gone, his range is gone. He never had any power. Not even worth an invite to camp. No. Just no.
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Definitely
IF he could play short or 3rd he could be a possible utility man in his final years, Baker/DeWitt is no great shakes but better than Castillo.
Look at his SB numbers over the last couple of years.
2009 was OK, but last year was bad. He has no power, never had any, his fielding isn’t what it used to be.
I’d rather take a shot that DeWitt will improve.
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One glorious July day several years ago blessed me with the good fortune of catching not one but two homers
One by Sosa and one by Castillo. Guess which one went further?
Yep – Castillo’s. Sosa was in the middle of the street. Castillo cleared Waveland. Surprised the hell out of me….
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
I looked this up.
This one has to be from this game on July 8, 2003.
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yep - that's the one.
When I got Castillo to sign the ball, I made sure to tell him that his went farther than Sammy’s. He got a big kick out of that… ;-)
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
Amazingly enough
… Castillo has hit two other HR at Wrigley (both in 2005) and has lifetime numbers of .333/ .405/.455 there, in 152 plate appearances.
Note, this does NOT mean I am endorsing acquiring him.
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Let Castillo go help the Phillies, while Utley gets healthy
This young Cubs team has no use for guys at the end of their career. I’d rather give that playing time to Darwin Barney
"You win because of the quarterback. We have to get that position stabilized. We're fixated on that." -- Jerry Angelo (12.30.2008)
Jerry Angelo trades for Jay Cutler! (4.2.2009)
The speed went when he hurt his feet.
He’s never going to be as fast as he was in his 20’s, but he’ll probably be faster in 2020 than he was in 2010. His feet were a mess last year.
MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown
If the Cubs are interested ...
it’s gotta mean that they’d be willing to shed Baker (unlikely) or DeWitt (hmmm). Castillo can’t replace Barney because the Cubs will need a backup SS.
That’s why I’m kind of skeptical …
As I noted in another thread...
… Castillo had some attitude problems:
In 28 Grapefruit League at-bats, Castillo hit .286 with no extra-base hits, committing one error and several other notable misplays in the field. At one point during camp, manager Terry Collins called Castillo into his office, reprimanding him for what he saw as sullen behavior.
The Cubs don’t need that.
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Back in 2006 I was really hoping the Cubs would pick up Castillo instead of Pierre...
….in 2011, I’ll be happy going to opening day with neither.
On a side note, I think Castillo was the only player I’ve ever seen at Kane County who looked EXACTLY the same playing both in the minors & the majors. All slap hits & pure speed…
Luis Castillo was the Marlin that hit the foul ball to Alou/Bartman on 10/14/03
and bringing him here would undoubtedly mean ESPN and Fox would show that play a hundred more times. No thanks. If Castillo was actually better than DeWitt, that would be different, but I dont think that he is. However, I expect Hendry to call Castillo anyway.
ask not what the Cubs can do for you - ask what you can do for the Cubs.
by holy mackeral on Mar 19, 2011 1:03 PM CDT up reply actions
Take a flier on Millwood or put Marshall back in the rotation
Millwood at least will keep his ERA under 5 and is getting desperate. And I think he weighs 12 pounds less than Silva. And that kind of first pitch swinging by Fukudome is exactly why he is a nightmare at leadoff.
What?
These are both awful ideas. The Cubs have several pitchers in camp already who are better than Kevin Millwood.
And why would you want to hurt the bullpen? Sean Marshall is one of the best setup men in the National League. He was never consistent as a starter. He’s got a role and is good at it. Why would you screw with that?
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by Al Yellon on Mar 18, 2011 8:49 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Agreed.
Marshall is a much better reliever than he is a starter.
anyone who thinks
Marshall should start is just wrong -
If it is any indication of how wrong it is – I have thought for a year that Marshall should never start again…and I am the slowest to come around to things
You are absolutely right
Some fools believe Marmol and Marshall will be as successful as starters as they have been as shutdown relievers. That’s as intelligent as making Hill part of this team. Do we want to keep the sportswriters delusions come true or win baseball game. Dump Silva and Hill. Use Barney rather than DeWitt and find another alternative for our 5th infielder.
If a quality pitching start is 3 runs and 6 innings, then a quality hitting day is 1 for 4.
actually, Kosuke might be our most patient hitter
It’s Spring Training. Guys are taking cuts because they care less about winning the game than they do about getting their timing right. If he swings first pitch in that situation in a real game, then you have something to complain about. Not in ST.
by Orval Overall on Mar 19, 2011 9:17 AM CDT up reply actions
Marshall is a big no way in the rotation
huge actually
I always turn to the sports section first. The sports page records people's accomplishments; the front page has nothing but man's failures.
~Earl Warren
by lookingdeadred on Mar 19, 2011 9:59 AM CDT up reply actions
I saw Silva earlier
live (?) in a game at HoHoKam versus the Angels. He gave up 8 in an inning. I was sitting behind home plate about 12 rows back. The sound of the balls he was throwing off the Angels bats was incredible. He was throwing BP speed with no movement and everything was getting hit hard. If we keep him, make him the BP pitcher. It might humiliate him into quitting or at the very least, give our hitters a sense of invincibility. With apologies to Terry Forster, release the Fat Tub of Goo.
If the Cubs can't see that Hill and Silva are done and need to be released....
It does not say much for their credibilitiy…..
Also as far as I am concerned both Baker and Barney have beaten out DeWitt for the starting 2b job…
Soriano continues to impress in the field!!!
That last Fukudome AB is another reason why he should NOT be leading off......Or starting over Colvin at all...
He should be the 4th OF, period.
I agree re the Colvin part.
But people are making too much of this first swing issue. Seriously – did everyone forget how this guy was the only player on our team in 2008 who would actually work a count?
by Orval Overall on Mar 19, 2011 9:18 AM CDT up reply actions
TJ has an infinite series of ledges
And every time he jumps off one, he just lands on the next lower one. It’s like an Escher painting.
"Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have?" -Frank Chance
"If [Ruth] had [called his shot], I would have knocked him down with the next pitch." -Charlie Root
Pretty excited by Castro's burgeoning power.
I know it’s ST and all that but still. Maybe forecasts that he could eventually become a 20 HR type could reach fruition sooner than anyone could have hoped.
by English Cub Fan on Mar 18, 2011 9:27 PM CDT reply actions
I jus hope...
He don’t let it go to his head and stays within in his self. I really really really like Castro but don;t want him going up there swinging for the fences everytime.
Not trying to go overboard here,
but his swing reminds me a lot of Hanley Ramirez’s. Ramirez wasn’t expected to add quite as much power as he has since hitting the majors. I like Castro’s chances to hit 20 HRs in a season, and maybe sooner than everyone thought. The question with Castro has never been whether he can hit major league pitching, but how much power he will develop. Those big shots in ST at the least demonstrate to me that he has the pop to hit 15-20, this year even.
I agree.
A lot of people forget that Castro isn’t even 21 yet. His birthday is on Thursday. A lot of players his age are entering a season at Double-A.
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Almost all players his age are in AA
Quade needs to remember that, as do the fans. He is going to make mistakes, they should be addressed, which I think they will, but in a matter befitting his age. He is still learning the game especially at the major league speed.
My question is if they are working on fundamentals
why would you not bunt, one run down, no outs and men on first and second. Instead two fly balls, a walk and a ground ball later we strand three have an L.
My question is who exactly is working on them?
B/c it doesn’t sound like Sori
''"I always thought I was the most competitive person out there. I never thought I'd find anybody more competitive until I met him.'' Ryan Dempster talking about Ted Lilly
by Madison Cub Fan on Mar 18, 2011 9:29 PM CDT up reply actions
That's sad but true
In 06 when as a National he threw a hissy fit about where he was going to be playing defense SHOULD have been a sign to any team wanting to sign him that he could be a defensive liability not just b/c of lack of talent but b/c of the way he behaved.
''"I always thought I was the most competitive person out there. I never thought I'd find anybody more competitive until I met him.'' Ryan Dempster talking about Ted Lilly
by Madison Cub Fan on Mar 19, 2011 12:04 AM CDT up reply actions
A sac bunt in the 9th inning of a 14-13 spring training game?
We’ll just say that would violate all kinds of unwritten rules…
"Manny Trillo is coming in to pinch run. You know, for a lot of teams, you would pinch run for Manny Trillo." - Harry Caray
What?? Just no...
It’s spring training, there are no rules, and that isn’t a rule regardless of the time of the year.
Of course you can bunt...ST is for gettting ready for what you would do during the season.
Maybe the Cubs are not planning on bunting in that situation during the year!
Slug Fest
Good slug fest today. Camp was the only one without a hit, but he had an RBI.
How did Barney handle 2B? I liked his stat line at the plate. Was mesmerized by the lineup. Liked the Barney to Colvin to Castro before Byrd because Byrd doesn’t hit it out of the park too often. I hope they don’t wait too long before calling Castillo up. The more they change the mix the more offense it seems.
How about Pena’s .297 average. Makes me wish they played every game in AZ.
Looks like they aren’t going to have Silva in the rotation and Russell is back to the bullpen where he belongs.
Barney for starting second baseman.
Seriously, or at least we should hope he plays a lot. If DeWitt continues to be unable to hit, Barney should certainly be given a shot or a platoon with Baker.
I agree with this.
I could easily see Barney taking over part of that platoon. Or even winning the job outright eventually.
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The thing I keep hearing, which disturbes
me as a fan (and investor with my ST money), is that “the pitchers have confidence and believe in KHill.”
This apparently, as we have seen up to this point, and will probably see into the year, trumps all.
The other issue, Al, is: with a limited number of starts the back-up catcher has, do you really want Castillo sitting on the bench not putting starter’s time in when he could be learning?
Selfishly – as a fan – YES! For management, I guess they are not thinking that way.
It sucks to watch Koyie Hill play baseball.
The other thing I was going to mention is that I hope the pattern of 1-run losses I am seeing now does not continue AGAIN.
I buy the “well it doesn’t matter – its spring training…” Well, there is some traction in breeding winning habits, and certainly the Giants (who carried the best ST record last year) are continuing their winning ways from World Series Champ into the following year.
The Cubs just still are figuring so many things out…and the defensive problems I am afraid will cause them many games once again in 2011.
Spring training results mean nothing
The Orioles have been known to do well in spring training over the past few seasons, and you see how far they’ve gotten.
Viva la Cubs Révolution!!!
You can think that
but I posted records of the leader of Grapefruit and Cactus leagues 2003-2010
The results would surprise you, if you did not see them.
And winning
is a habit. Spring training, NCAA, Little League.
True.
However, the KC Royals are currently 14-6, and the NY Yankees 8-12.
Raise your hand if you expect those teams to have those records after 20 regular season games.
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2010 - Interesting Data
Last year, there were 9 teams that finished April 3 games or more above .500
Of the 9, 7 had winning records in Spring Training.
This would seem to support my theory that winning in ST can carry over to the first part of the season.
How does that compare to other years?
It’s true that some teams that play well in spring training do well during the season.
It’s not true for every team.
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I'm not inclined
to make a research project out of this. I look briefly at 2009 and out of 12 teams that had a winning record in ST, 10 of them had a winning record at the end of April.
Of course it doesn’t run 100% true, but it appears to be a indicator. It is clear that if you have a strong ST, there is an good likelihood you will get off to a hot start. Conversely, if you stink it up in ST, it is likely you won’t get off to a good start.
In 2009, the Astros, D’Backs, Orioles, Padres, and Indians all had poor springs and all had lousy Aprils.
It gets more interesting if you look at the last 10 games in ST. The Padres finished 9-1 in ST last year, and then went 15-9 in April. The Rays were 8-2 and then went 17-7 in April.
Conversely, the Dodgers were 3-7 and then 10-14. Pirates 2-8 and then 10-15. Astros 2-8 and then 8-15.
For some teams, it's an indicator.
For others, not. I don’t think you can use a ST W-L record to predict anything.
Tell you what. Let’s take the top four AL and NL teams in record this spring, when it’s over. Do you think those will be the eight playoff teams?
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You seem to be ignorant
of the concept of an indicator, nor do you get the fact that there are exceptions to every rule.
A casual perusal of the records over the past couple of years makes clear that the way a team finished is ST is a pretty good indicator of how they will start the season. And the way they start the season is pretty good indicator of how they finish.
Nobody is saying it is an absolute rule or even a 90% rule. It is a more often than not indicator. Nothing more, nothing less.
If there are exceptions to every rule, is that a rule?
And is there an exception to it?
by Shanghai Badger on Mar 19, 2011 1:47 PM CDT up reply actions
Yes it is a rule
and yes there are exceptions to it.
There are rules with no exceptions, but they are exceptions to the rule.
BTW
Speaking of research, thru yesterday’s games, the average attendance at Cactus League games this year is 6229. Thru the same number of games last year, it was 6279. For the entire season in 2010, it was 6716.
One nice thing about spreadsheets is that it makes it easy to do projections. The projection I get is that the total attendance for the year will be 1.55 M with a per game average of about 6550. A slight drop off from last year, but not significant. And that is a very conservative projection.
Interestingly, if the D’Backs finish strong, they will have a shot at setting the all-time attendance record. The Cubs currently hold that at 203,000 in 2009 (19 games). The D’Backs currently sit at 133,500 thru 13 games, with 7 games left to play. If they average 10,000 per game, they will break the record.
You note it's a "slight" dropoff...
… if your projection comes true.
And that’s with a NEW ballpark with two teams drawing much better than they did last year. What does that mean for the other teams?
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there's a finite supply of ST baseball fans in the Phoenix area?
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
No, it probably means a lot of people who have come here in past years didn't do so this year...
… for various reasons, many of which have already been discussed here.
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What are you concerned about - Cubs attendance numbers or Cactus League attendance numbers?
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
Al keeps yo yo-ing from one to the other
He can’t seem to grasp the idea that while the Cubs are down, this does not mean the Cactus League as a whole is down.
And that the whole notion of the Cubs as the engine that drives the Cactus League has been put to rest.
Eventually, won't the impact of the Cubs' national fanbase fade?
It is a bit of an exaggeration, but it used to be that the Cubs were essentially the “home” team in PHX, what with all the Chicago transplants and then their kids watching on WGN.
Add a Phoenix MLB team, wait 18 years and a WS title…. subtract most of the national broadcasts…. suddenly it’s amazing the Cubs have any above-average “presence” in PHX at all.
MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown
I don't follow your logic
it’s not like there are fewer ex-Chicagoans in Phoenix than there were in the past. In fact, I’m sure there are more.
There may be some people who switch their allegiance over time from the Cubs to the local team, but it doesn’t make any sense that a whole bunch of them did that since last year.
When it is all said and done
There will be two teams (D’Backs and Rockies) that will draw about double what they drew last year. There will be 7 teams that draw about what they did last year (+/- 5%), there will be 4 teams off by 10% or so, and there will be two teams (Cubs, Dodgers) off around 20%.
You can speculate all you want about the reasons for the shift. I do think Ballhawk is right in that fans that previously went to Cubs games are now going to D’Backs/Rockies games. It was a slam dunk that the new park would do well, not just because it is new, but also because of the demographics in that part of town.
It is interesting that 3 of the 4 teams that are down the most are California teams. I think gas prices are the reason, plus the turmoil surrounding the Dodgers.
The only other team that is seriously down that isn’t the Cubs or a CA team is the Mariners. I’m sure their 101 loss season is a factor, but they have 6 home dates left, and I expect they will bump their average some.
But, the bottom line is that the total number of people coming thru the turnstiles for Cactus League games this year will approach the all time record of 1.58 million in 2009 when there were 7 more games played.
I’m projecting that they will fall a little short, but the point is that the steep decline that you were daily posting about in the first couple of weeks of ST did not materialize, just as it did not materialize when you were posting about it in 2010.
After all these years, I would think you would have a better sense of the attendance patterns in ST.
If you read many comments here...
… you’ll note people saying that they aren’t coming due to economic reasons.
We’ll see what the final numbers are. Today’s crowd at Peoria was not a sellout — I would have expected one.
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It is really odd
how you feel the need to negatively spin this topic.
The crowd today at Peoria was very close to a sellout and it was the biggest crowd the Padres have had in several years.
There were 5 crowds of 10,000+ today and it was the biggest attendance day so far this year, and only 1 date last year was bigger.
Now, explain to me again how this means people aren’t coming?
I don't get why you put slight in quotes
other than the fact that you are loathe to admit you were wrong.
To date, the drop off amounts to 50 fans per game. You don’t think that is “slight”?
That will undoubtably turn into an increase by the end of the weekend.
Some Cubs examples:
Cubs 2003 (made Playoffs); ST record: 17-11
Cubs 2004 (just missed Playoffs); ST record: 16-15
Cubs 2005 (slightly below .500); ST record: 15-18
Cubs 2006 (lost 96 games); ST record: 15-14
Cubs 2007 (made Playoffs); ST record: 17-13
Cubs 2008 (made Playoffs); ST record: 15-15
Cubs 2009 (slightly above .500); ST record: 18-18
Cubs 2010 (12 games below .500); ST record: 18-12
5 out of 8 years, the Cubs ST record tracked fairly well with their regular season record. The 3 that don’t track as well aren’t so far off if you look closer. In 2006, the Cubs were 14-10 in April. In 2008, they finished the spring 7-3. In 2010, the gaudy ST record is a little deceiving as the Cubs were only +5 in run differential.
So IOW...
…. about half the years were a good predictor (five of eight), about half not (three of eight).
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5 of 8 is not about half
it is 63%, which is a lot closer to 2/3rds.
And as I posted, in two of the other three, 2006 when the Cubs started strong and faded, and 2008 when the Cubs finished Spring strong the indicators are better than they seem at first.
Only in 2010 was the indicator totally off. So that is 7 out of 8, which is 88%.
Look at the NL teams
who have the best ST records right now:
Philadelphia, Atlanta, San Francisco, Colorado, Cincinnati, Milwaukee, and St. Louis.
I think most experts would expect the 4 playoff teams to come from that group.
AL teams with the best ST records
Royals, Tigers, Mariners, Twins, Blue Jays.
In fact, those are the ONLY AL teams with winning spring records right now.
Only the Twins — and maybe the Tigers — are playoff contenders from that group.
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ST isn't over yet
Boston is at .500, Angels are 1 game under, Tampa Bay, Orioles and Indians are two games under. The last 2 weeks are what matter most.
10 out of 12 the last two years. You can’t discount that.
Padres
“Only the Twins — and maybe the Tigers — are playoff contenders from that group.”
You would have said the same thing about the Padres last year. They were 18-10 in ST and finished with a 9 game winning streak.
They went on to surprise and led the NL West all summer long until a mid-September swoon caused them to finish 2 games out.
So the last ten games when the regulars are playing
with the exception of the guys battling for the last spots on the roster are what is important, not the overall record. I think this years performance will based on April success. With the April gift schedule, anything less than 17-10 (give or take a game) portends a long season. Similar to last years ineptitude against the Pirates they couldn’t beat them, everyone else did and therefore they lost ground.
Agreed that the Cubs need to start by beating the Pirates.
The weird thing is that from 2007-09 they totally dominated the Pirates. 32-15 those three years. 5-10 last year. It makes no sense at all.
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If my theory is correct
it bodes well for the Cubs in April. Pittsburg, Arizona, Houston and the Dodgers are vying with Florida for the worst record in Spring Training right now.
The Cubs play those four teams a combined 19 times before May 5th.
I would like to look at that
where would I find it?
I do know that the team with the best record in the Cactus League last year was the San Francisco Giants.
I have long contended that ST results can impact the kind of start a team gets off to.
Actually, the team with the best winning percentage in the Cactus League last year...
… was the Cleveland Indians (the Giants won the most games, but had a slightly lower win %). How’d that work out during the season?
The Texas Rangers had the worst record in the Cactus League. They won the AL pennant.
2010 spring records for 2010 playoff teams:
Giants, 23-12; Phillies, 15-12; Reds, 12-16; Braves, 17-12
Rangers, 10-19; Twins, 16-14; Yankees, 13-15; Rays, 20-8
There is some correlation between winning in spring and winning during the regular season — but it’s not a 100% correlation. Some of the Cubs’ best seasons — 1984 and 1989 come to mind — have come after awful spring training records. The 2008 Cubs, winners of 97 games, were 15-15 during spring training. Last year’s Cubs were 18-12 in spring training. That didn’t correlate to much.
Here is a link to the 2010 spring training standings. From there you can use the drop-down menu to find ST standings going back to 2002.
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Looking at it another way
5 of the 8 playoff teams last year were from the Grapefruit League. 4 of those 5 were in the top 6 in the final Spring Training standings.
Texas and Cincinnati, while playoff teams, were only .500 in April.
Only the Yankees had a poor spring and a hot start. But, they finished spring 6-4, and it’s not like their Spring Training record was horrible.
Another interesting thing you see in the Grapefruit League moreso than in the Cactus League is the majority of teams have really good home records. I suspect this is because when there is a long bus ride involved, a lot of the star players stay home.
Another interesting thing you see in the Grapefruit League moreso than in the Cactus League is the majority of teams have really good home records. I suspect this is because when there is a long bus ride involved, a lot of the star players stay home.
Agreed.
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In 2010
it was 5 out of 6.
It was 5 out of 6 in 2009 too, if you say it as teams with the best records instead of playoff teams. Boston had the 5th best record in ST and finished with the 5 best record in the AL. So, the last two years, it is an amazing 10 out of 12.
The correlation in 2008 is still good. Of the top 5 teams in the Grapefruit League and the Top 3 teams in the Cactus League, 6 of the 8 finished with 89 or more wins and one of the remaining two finished with 86 wins.
Also
I think the W-L results in the last 2 weeks of Spring Training are 10x more significant than they are during the first 2 weeks.
On this, I agree.
Because the last two weeks of the spring are played more like regular season games, than the first two weeks, where the last few innings of games are played by a lot of minor leaguers.
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They had quite a discussion about this last night
on MLB Network. The analysts, which I think were Larry Bowa, Mitch Williams and somebody else, were universally of the opinion that the momentum or lack of same from Spring Training carries over into the regular season.
Larry Bowa went as far as to say that teams that were struggling in Spring Training should play their regulars more from now until the end of Spring to try to create a winning attitude going into the season.
Remember that one time when I said giving Koyie Hill a new contract AND a raise was galactically stupid?
Yeah.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Mar 18, 2011 10:12 PM CDT reply actions
Cool story bro
"Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have?" -Frank Chance
"If [Ruth] had [called his shot], I would have knocked him down with the next pitch." -Charlie Root
so what happened?
oh yeah…..feel the power of Hill!!!!
Hill in a Handbasket
Alice Cooper song: Go to Hill
That’s a Hill of an idea!
What the Hill were you thinking?
By all that's holy, I am going to attend the 2012 Randy Hundley Fantasy Camp.
by VegasCubFan on Mar 18, 2011 10:28 PM CDT up reply actions
Fair enough.
He does appear to be done. “Galactically stupid”? No, that would have been giving him a multimillion dollar multiyear deal. That didn’t happen. They can release him and be out only a few hundred thousand. Unlike Silva, who is owed $7.5 million by the Cubs.
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Al, do you think Larry Rothschild had any affect on Silva
and all the other guys last year? I can’t remember them blowing so many leads in spring training then now (better now then the regular season, I guess)
by braziliancubsfan on Mar 18, 2011 10:49 PM CDT up reply actions
Good question.
I was never as down on Rothschild as some. I think he got blamed too much when things were bad, not enough credit when they went well.
Now, most of the starting pitching this spring has been very good. Remember that a lot of the blown leads are being blown by pitchers who won’t be on the team (or as in Silva’s case, who we HOPE won’t be on the team).
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We may find out...
If Cubs do cut him loose, I can easily see the Yankees signing him. They seem to be throwing everything at the back end of their rotation to see what sticks – what’s one more? If Larry thinks he can help Silva regain his first half form from last year and with the Cubs/Mariners footing the bill (less the ML minimum), why not?
Wouldn’t that be a swift kick in the ’nads to Cubs fans everywhere… Silva pitches just barely well enough to eat some innings in the 5th spot for the Yankees and gets a WS ring while the Cubs sit at home in October…
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
That could happen
but the Yanks have lots of ?? marks this year and a good Sox and Rays team in their division.
''"I always thought I was the most competitive person out there. I never thought I'd find anybody more competitive until I met him.'' Ryan Dempster talking about Ted Lilly
by Madison Cub Fan on Mar 19, 2011 12:08 AM CDT up reply actions
So are you saying:
There are 108 beads in a Catholic rosary and there are 108 stitches in a baseball. Who says baseball isn't a religion?
If Hill's contract as a back up catcher
is “galactically stupid”, how do you describe the signing of Milton Bradley? Do we have to leave the galaxy for that one?
Um, so what about Milton Bradley?
Joey Gathright?
Kevin Gregg?
Aaron Miles?
Need I go on?
I didn't believe it last August, but it turns out that love survives.
State high point count: 3/50
If you are grouchy, irritable, or just plain mean, there will be a $10 charge for putting up with you.
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Mar 19, 2011 12:02 PM CDT up reply actions
You think Fukudome isn't playing well
Well you know why he may not. It’s certainly reasonable to think he has other things on his mind regarding home
Viva la Cubs Révolution!!!
He's a professional baseball player
if he’s that concerned, take time off. I do not get the benefit of the doubt at work and I sure don’t make $12 million. Sorry Chanman25, don’t buy “something on his mind”
By all that's holy, I am going to attend the 2012 Randy Hundley Fantasy Camp.
by VegasCubFan on Mar 18, 2011 10:27 PM CDT up reply actions
That's a bit harsh
I don’t care how much money someone is paid; it doesn’t make them less human.
by Shanghai Badger on Mar 18, 2011 10:30 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
he should take time off then
By all that's holy, I am going to attend the 2012 Randy Hundley Fantasy Camp.
by VegasCubFan on Mar 18, 2011 10:34 PM CDT up reply actions
Maybe playing is helping him cope
it is spring training after all. And you can’t tell me that the “world” has never affected your ability to function at the top of your game.
If by "world" you mean beer.
I totally agree with you.
But honestly – claiming someone can’t be effected by a horrific event because they’re rich is really a pretty thoughtless comment.
What?
Seriously. De-rec button. We need it.
Can you explain why making $12 million should make him forget about whats happening at home.
I'm not asking him to forget about what's going on at home
and it is indeed grave, but if it affecting him on the field, he should take a personal leave.
By all that's holy, I am going to attend the 2012 Randy Hundley Fantasy Camp.
by VegasCubFan on Mar 18, 2011 11:09 PM CDT up reply actions
Because it's affecting his team's quest for the Catcus League title?
Seriously…
by Shanghai Badger on Mar 18, 2011 11:14 PM CDT up reply actions
you are correct
I apologize if I seemed callous about him and his salary, that does come across uncaring. Far from the truth, one should not type flippantly as I did,
By all that's holy, I am going to attend the 2012 Randy Hundley Fantasy Camp.
by VegasCubFan on Mar 18, 2011 11:16 PM CDT up reply actions
see above
it doesn’t matter
By all that's holy, I am going to attend the 2012 Randy Hundley Fantasy Camp.
by VegasCubFan on Mar 18, 2011 11:16 PM CDT up reply actions
He may very well be thinking about home...I would be!
But he isnt that great a player to begin with and there is no reason that he should be given a starting job. Unless is paycheck is doing it for him!
Is Bud running the NCAA tourney as well?
This insistence on calling yesterday and today’s games “Second Round” smacks of Selig-ness.
Only the NCAA could set up a tournament with 60 “First Round” byes…
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
by ballhawk on Mar 18, 2011 11:09 PM CDT reply actions 1 recs
Here's one thing I really hate about the tournament.
Who decided to paint every single one of the floors with the same color scheme and type font for the city? It looks like every game is being played at the same venue. At least they could have chosen four colors, one for each region.
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They're temporary floors that the NCAA shipped to all venues
They want consistency… and they want all players on all teams to have the same experience… from on the court to in the media/interview podiums.
"You win because of the quarterback. We have to get that position stabilized. We're fixated on that." -- Jerry Angelo (12.30.2008)
Jerry Angelo trades for Jay Cutler! (4.2.2009)
yeah 2nd round
That is crazy that they are calling it that…as if those Tuesday games are some whole other tier of games lol
I love the posts of Al venting frustration
Or any type of high emotion posts for that matter. They’re the most enlightening reads.
Jack Brickhouse: "Hey! Hey!"
Harry Caray: "Holy Cow!"
Vince Lloyd: "The Chicago Cubs are on the Air!"
Len Casper: "Oh Baby!"
Bob Brenly: "Give it to a Kid!"
Ron Santo: "YES!", "All Right!, let's do it!", "Oh No!", "Oh jeez come on!" AND...
"This Is The Year!"
by #1 iowan cubs fan on Mar 19, 2011 1:18 AM CDT reply actions
Jake Fox... OT
One player I would like the Cubs to have back is Jake Fox, sort of. I saw a segment on SC and it said Jake Fox has the best power numbers in the league for spring training. I imagine he’ll be a DH for the Orioles. I wonder what the picture would be for the Cubs if the National League had a DH. Nah, I like the natural lineup better with the pitcher batting for himself. The National League is the real sport (laughs) : )
Jack Brickhouse: "Hey! Hey!"
Harry Caray: "Holy Cow!"
Vince Lloyd: "The Chicago Cubs are on the Air!"
Len Casper: "Oh Baby!"
Bob Brenly: "Give it to a Kid!"
Ron Santo: "YES!", "All Right!, let's do it!", "Oh No!", "Oh jeez come on!" AND...
"This Is The Year!"
by #1 iowan cubs fan on Mar 19, 2011 2:59 AM CDT reply actions
To all the Fox haters out there....He may not catch as well as Hill but he is a much better hitter, (we all are), plus he can at least try to play many other positions.
So in a league that usually carries 12 pitchers, that is nice coming off the bench.
Bottom of the 9th with need of a PH, who do you want Hill or Fox?
It does not matter anymore, but some of the hate toward Fox here is stupid. I hope he has a great year with the Orioles!
Bottom of the 9th with need of a PH, who do you want Hill or Fox?
This isn’t even a question. I can think of ten pitchers I’d send up to bat for Hill.
Jake Fox isn’t a good pinch hitter, either. Lifetime: 9-for-42 (.214), two doubles, 15 strikeouts.
Just because a guy hits great in spring training doesn’t mean he’ll hit during the season. If that were true, Micah Hoffpauir would be headed for the Hall of Fame.
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by Al Yellon on Mar 19, 2011 7:53 AM CDT up reply actions 2 recs
If you can send 10 pitchers up for Hill, he should not be in the majors...
It is a question Al,
By the bottom of the 9th many times all you have left with today’s shortened benches is a backup catcher….We need one who at least has a chance….
It's not that I hate him
but I don’t understand the love for him. Some people seem to think the only problem is he hasn’t gotten a chance. His numbers last year were .217 / .261 / .384.
John Grabow: $4.8 million in 2011.
Did the Orioles release Vladimir Guerrero?
John Grabow: $4.8 million in 2011.
by rlpete on Mar 19, 2011 9:02 AM CDT up reply actions 2 recs
Speaking of ST stats
I see where Mark Reynolds is leading the Grapefruit League in Ks. If he stays healthy, he may wind up owning the strikeout record in both leagues.
not gonna
be fun playing the reds this year.these guys can and will mash.i can see silva being let go with other options available.koyie wont go anywhere. im thinking he is a Q favorite.and its looking like jeff baker might be our startind 2nd baseman.
Except Neifi was a good backup
but Dusty wanted to start hm. Hill isn’t even a good backup.
John Grabow: $4.8 million in 2011.
I was in Seattle last week for work and came away with this interesting take on Silva.
Nice city. Lots of sports fans and all very friendly. Soccer season just started, Washington had just won the PAC-10 conference tournament, and people are still excited about Mariners. So I had lots of chances to talk sports in general, and baseball in specific. And Bradley v Silva to be even more specific.
What it came down to is I basically asked the question – “with all of Bradley’s injuries, attitude, off-the-field behavior (especially his latest incident), who would you rather have on your team – Bradley or Silva?”. Answer came back Bradley every single time. No hesitation whatsoever.
Oh and yes, it rained every day, but at least it was green. And they have bus stops on the highways. Interesting concept.
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
What it came down to is I basically asked the question – "with all of Bradley’s injuries, attitude, off-the-field behavior (especially his latest incident), who would you rather have on your team – Bradley or Silva?". Answer came back Bradley every single time. No hesitation whatsoever.
Did they say why?
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Just a guess, but
if you have two guys with bad attitudes, take the one who has the ability to play baseball better.
Mariners fans’ feelings may also be influenced by that fact that their team paid Silva a huge contract to suck, whereas Bradley was just an unfortunate cost necessary to get rid of Silva.
Except Bradley didn't play well in Seattle last year.
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That's why I said "ability"
Mariners fans must be capable of looking at career stats if they’d rather have Bradley. Either that or Silva’s attitude was even worse than Bradley’s in Seattle.
They must think he's going to have some sort of big comeback year.
I’d be real skeptical of that.
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Well, I wasn't going to go all "60 Minutes" on them...
…but the sense I got is it was attitude-related. Which is pretty funny considering Bradley is part of the equation here.
I’m conjecturing here, but maybe Bradley’s fiery and outspokeness was viewed in a better light than Silva’s complacency. I also think physical conditioning had something to do with. Folks up in the northwest are generally more outdoorsy, active, and in pretty good shape. Seeing a big fat tub of goo collecting millions while stinking up the joint probably didn’t sit too well with them. Again, just conjecture on my part.
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
Maybe.
That was the kind of “fiery” that Jim Hendry said he wanted. That’s not the kind of “fiery” and “outspoken” that helps win baseball games, IMO.
Bradley had a bad year and the Mariners lost 101 games. I can’t see anything to like there.
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Clearly the Mariners
organization felt this way about Silva vs Bradley as well. The threw in an extra $9M in the deal, even though there was only $3M difference in the two contracts.
Seattle obviously felt there were $6M reasons to prefer Bradley to Silva.
Also the Mariners signed Silva.
He was supposed to be good for them. With Bradley, they had low expectations. Seeing him go off and amount to nothing was probably half expected.
John Grabow: $4.8 million in 2011.
This:
“The Cubs can’t afford to have a black hole in the lineup every time Soto doesn’t play. "
is a really good point
by stuartscottslefteye on Mar 19, 2011 10:16 AM CDT reply actions
Aaron Harang relaxing in the off season
Yeah, I know there should be an apostrophe in "Vails," but punctuation wasn't an option when I signed up.
by Mike Vails Evil Twin on Mar 19, 2011 11:01 AM CDT reply actions
Releasing Silva
Assuming Coleman has options and that he starts in Iowa. Wells and Cashner will probably be in the rotation with Looper the challenger.
Don’t see where Silva fits in the bullpen, but ST should probably play-out before being definite about that. The way that I see it now, either Silva or Samardzija should be released.
I'd like to see Looper make the team.
Today, he is scheduled to pitch. This will be an important outing for him.
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I want Coleman...
Silva and Shark need to go now. BUT…that’s almost $10M, so, they’ll stay. I think if it was up to Quade, Silva would go…but, Hendry will veto that.
"I think part of a best friend's job should be to immediately clear your computer history if you die." - Anonymous
Yeah
I have Looper either starting or relieving, but we shall see.
by AboutTheCubs on Mar 19, 2011 1:36 PM CDT up reply actions
Gotta keep Silva!
I refuse to see management piss away that much money to compensate for Hendry’s bad moves. He made the trade, the Cubs should live with it. $7.5 million is a lot of money to eat. Maybe the the new pitching coach can turn him around. Who knows?
"Hey-Hey! Home Run! Attaboy Ronnie!" ~ Jack Brickhouse
I disagree
the only reason to keep Silva is to pitch in games where we are behind early and eat up innings. Otherwise there is no use for him at this time. I think they can send him out a couple more times and maybe, just maybe something will click. In the big scheme of the organization his contract means little if he is going to be this bad get rid of him and let one of the kids or another teams cast-off pitch in a mop-up role.
I was very much in favor of the Cubs trying to make something of the investment in Silva,
but it is obvious that what possibly could be had is just not worth the risk anymore. If there are some extenuating circumstances regarding Silva (ie injury) then he should be DL’ed, but putting him out there is only hurting his value. At this point, for there to be any value, Silva would have to have an extraordinary change in performance. Even if this extraordinary change were to occur, there would only be a million or two to be saved or perhaps some low grade prospects. There is little upside even in the best case scenario.
It’s time to move on. Put Silva (and Bradley) fully in the rear view mirror.
by jerry morales rules on Mar 19, 2011 11:28 AM CDT reply actions
This Silva fiasco shows a glaring problem in MLB...
…NEVER EVER give a pitcher more than a 2-3 year contract AND no NO-TRADE CLAUSE. Look how much mileage the Mets got out of Martinez and the Cubs got out of Kerry Wood and his 4 year contract. Long-term is NO GOOD! If they refuse, then let another team have them.
"Hey-Hey! Home Run! Attaboy Ronnie!" ~ Jack Brickhouse
and forget about every good pitcher in baseball.
Lilly’s deal worked out fine for the Cubs. Dempster’s is looking ok. Silva’s deal wasn’t smart the day it was signed.
John Grabow: $4.8 million in 2011.
That means that you'll have to develop every pitcher you have and
then have them leave once they are FA eligible, at least for the top of the rotation guys – the ones that are actual difference makers. Of course, this can happen. Look at San Fran, but it is highly unlikely and San Fran had to go thru a lot of years of failure before they got there. (Yes, I know there’s one Barry Zito on the staff, but he is a bit player. The core of the rotation are developed guys.) San Fran, most likely, will also try to keep thee guys one FA becomes an option for them.
San Fran, though, is the exception. If you want to remain marginal for years on end, this is a fine way to accomplish just that..
I think it will be interesting to see what the White Sox do with Danks. Williams said that he never wants to sign a guy past 3 years, but he extended it one year with Buehrle (for good reason). If Danks pitches these next two years the way he has the past 3, Danks is in line for a big contract for more than 3 years for sure – and Danks isn’t even a #1 starter.
by jerry morales rules on Mar 19, 2011 1:06 PM CDT up reply actions
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