Padres 14, Cubs 4: Roster Decisions Made Easy
PEORIA, Arizona -- The recap of today's 14-4 Cubs loss to the Padres, the second straight game they've given up 14 runs, requires a history lesson.
In spring training 1984 -- the very first spring training I ever attended in person, incidentally -- the Cubs looked awful. At one point, they lost 13 games in a row. Online stats for spring training don't go back that far, but Fergie Jenkins, as I wrote yesterday, was so bad that he was released with two weeks to go (coincidentally, 27 years ago today). The losses mounted. Finally, GM Dallas Green got so fed up with the whole thing that he made a deal; on March 26, 1984, he shipped Bill Campbell and Mike Diaz to the Phillies for Bob Dernier, Gary Matthews and Porfirio Altimirano. That '84 team had talent, but without the contributions of Dernier and Matthews, they wouldn't have gotten off to the good start they did, nor won the NL East. The deal shook up a complacent team and let them know no one's job was safe.
I'm not saying the Cubs necessarily have to make a trade to improve. But Jim Hendry (and Mike Quade, too) have to start putting aside sentiment and loyalty and see that the decisions that appear to be making themselves on the field, are reflected in the 25-man roster that comes north for Opening Day on April 1.
Not that Hendry and Quade are going to listen to me, but, to wit:
- The Braden Looper experiment appears to be over. He was
badawfulhorrific today, giving up eight runs on eight hits and a pair of walks in two innings, including a long grand slam hit by Chase Headley. It was worth checking him out. He's done. - Reed Johnson should get the fifth OF spot. Fernando Perez misplayed a couple more balls today -- one into a game-leadoff triple by ex-Cub Eric Patterson -- and went 0-for-4, dropping his spring average to .172. He's a one-dimensional player -- he can run. Johnson went 1-for-2; he's hitting .206, but playing well in the field, and his experience should help.
- Most importantly, the competition for the backup catcher job should be between Welington Castillo (.733 this spring, 11-for-15) and Max Ramirez (.294 so far, a grand slam today, nine RBI). I know all the reasons Koyie Hill is still on the roster. It is time for Hendry to ask him to step aside and take a coaching job in the organization, for the good of the team. I think Hill will make a fine coach, and maybe even a major league manager someday. But he can't play any more.
More on today's game after the jump.
It was quite a bit cooler today -- "only" 75 at game time, and as the afternoon went on, clouds thickened and the wind blowing out picked up quite a bit. The wind had nothing to do with the three Padres home runs -- all of them were rockets. (For that matter, so was Max Ramirez's grand slam for the Cubs; it cleared the RF berm and almost left the premises.) Matt Garza left the game after only three innings; there were Twitter reports from Carrie Muskat that he had "some soreness" in his left hamstring and that he "couldn't find his landing spot". He threw 20 more pitches in the pen after being removed and then said he felt fine, but "out of whack". Fortunately, there are still two weeks left for him to find that spot, and this is, in part, what spring training is for.
Jeff Samardzija gave up a leadoff double down the line to Cameron Maybin (who later homered off Looper), then struck out the side. That sounds good, but the three K victims were Nick Hundley, a .242-hitting catcher; pitcher Aaron Harang, and Aaron Cunningham, who has struck out in 68 of 265 MLB at-bats.
Still, it was progress for Samardzija, the only Cubs pitcher not to give up a run today.
Until the eighth inning, when the Cubs got three hits and M-Ram's grand slam, they had only a pair of singles (one by Jeff Baker, the other by Kosuke Fukudome, whose name the Peoria PA announcer pronounced three different ways, none of them correct). As I mentioned earlier, this team does have some talent, but it's just not coming along, except in fits and starts like yesterday.
I haven't been one of those in favor of the Cubs going after Rangers infielder Michael Young, who wants to be traded. But second base is looking... not good. What if the Cubs did something like this? Young is owed $48 million over the three seasons from 2011-13. The Cubs have a lot of money coming off the books after this year; they could handle that cash in 2012 and 2013. Why not see if the Rangers would take Kosuke Fukudome and Carlos Silva? That would cost Texas $20 million this year and $2 million (Silva's buyout) in 2012 -- but nothing else after that. Maybe the Cubs take $4 million of the money back to equalize the 2011 hit.
It's just a stab in the dark, really. The Cubs might be able to shore up second base with Darwin Barney, who is an excellent fielder with an unknown major league hitting ability. One thing I do know -- Jim Hendry has to start making tough decisions and stop being so loyal. Loyalty is great and does have its uses. But sometimes it can hurt you. Make it stop hurting, Jim.
Tomorrow, Randy Wells -- who has been excellent this spring -- will face the Giants in another televised game (3:05 p.m. CDT, CSN Chicago). The Giants send a split-squad to Mesa, so the Cubs will miss Madison Bumgarner; instead, Shane Loux will start for San Francisco.
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God no on Michael Young
We finally have money coming off the books and do we really need another overpaid, underperforming player?
by Bad Midget on Mar 19, 2011 7:31 PM CDT reply actions 2 recs
He's better than any second baseman on the roster right now.
And you’d be dumping two contracts.
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but you'd be extending the pain of big money contracts
lemme guess – when a bandage is ready to come off, you take it off ever so s-l-o-w-l-y, right?
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
Gee, and just a few short years ago, we had like FIVE second basemen on the team...
There are 108 beads in a Catholic rosary and there are 108 stitches in a baseball. Who says baseball isn't a religion?
He's better than most second baseman on any roster
If Hendry could swing that trade I would do it in a NY minute. Young for at least the next couple of years should be good for 20hr – 80rbi .280avg.., Defensively, he’s had an up and down career but in between he’s won a couple of GG’s.
by troutfishin on Mar 19, 2011 10:08 PM CDT up reply actions
Let's be real
Why on earth would the Rangers want to take on Silva and Fukudome’s contracts? It takes two to make a deal.
by Clark Addison on Mar 19, 2011 10:53 PM CDT up reply actions
Why?
Because they can get out from under Young’s. Same reason the Mariners took [name redacted].
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Ya but why would they be trying to "get out from under Young"?
He wants out but he he is not going to be a problem for the team. He can still play a role for them.
What kind of role?
They have a 2B, a 3B, and a DH.
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As for the Rangers; Young without a position
34 yr old Michael Young, (Oct) has a big contract for 20-24 HR hitting IF’er, $16M (thru 2013), Young has played 3B 2009-‘10, after playing SS 2004-’08. Last time he regularly played 2B was before 2003. He wants out because is is a P/T DH and utility player hoping for a teammate’s injury.
Any deal would be a financial one where teams also might exchange low level prospects, but Rangers would have to want to take on salary this year to close the books on 2012 & 2013. Cubs would have to send Mariners’ $5.5M with Fukudome making $13.5M & Silva $11.5M (plus $2M) w/ Mariners’ money it is $19.5M plus the $2M. Taking on $3.5M is a good investment.
Now getting Michael Young could offer the Cubs insurance at 3B next year as essentially Young could slot to Ramirez’s spot including salary slot allowing Vitters to push him out or he could stick like Grudz did at 2B when he came over from the Dodgers. Either way it is a good move for both clubs in that they move players who are not performing. Fukudome could DH and also work with Murphy in tandem or even be traded during the season for value/need. Silva is simply a crap shoot.
Piniella: "This is a tougher job than I thought it would be, I'm going to be honest with you."
no Al
lets just be done with this crappy roster after this year…contention is a long shot…if need be lets just yank the bandaid off
by hansman1982 on Mar 19, 2011 11:15 PM CDT up reply actions
Silva and Fukudome?
Do you really think the Cubs haven’t already considered this? Of course Hendry would do that in a heartbeat but there is no way the Rangers are interested. They’ve made it clear that they want a top prospect. Come on, lets be real.
Why wouldn't the Rangers want to save some $?
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I think Rangers are hoping a better deal arrives
Piniella: "This is a tougher job than I thought it would be, I'm going to be honest with you."
Of course there is a chance the Cubs have not thought of this!!!!!
Remember these are the same people taking Hill north!!!!
The question that needs to be asked is whether or not you believe the Cubs have a genuine shot at competing this year.
Because honestly I can’t see him having much value beyond 2011. He has too little power for a corner IF spot, he has decaying range at 2b, and they have Castro at short.
I think the Cubs can do better than to throw more bad money at someone who is questionable to be productive in 2012.
I don’t think this team competes in 2011 for all that much. Yes injuries in the division open it up, but I don’t see this lineup, even with the addition of Young, doing much damage this year.
It’d be more bad paper.
"What do you think, I just dunked my whole career?" Jordan asked Henderson after making a 3.
"You’ve got to miss eventually," Henderson told him.
"That’s what Cleveland said," replied Jordan
Actually liked your barney idea..
Not this one.. thoe other one.. A good fielding 2b guy won’t cost us games and at least he has a potential future..

by DisCUBbobulated on Mar 20, 2011 3:09 PM CDT up reply actions
I like what I've seen from Barney.
He could win the job eventually.
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agree
The Cubs just need to get out of all these Hendry esque contracts and start over. Its going to take a while.
Let's hope so!!!
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
We don't even know if Young can play 2b anymore
he could be worse than DeWitt
"A dream you dream alone is only a dream. A dream you dream together is reality." John Lennon
"My favorite food is Macaroni and Cheese, from the blue box." Geovany Soto
ofcourse we do!
thats how teams do it, right?
He's my Hossa
HO-HO-HO-HO-HOSSA
by jesus christos on Mar 19, 2011 7:59 PM CDT up reply actions
Too bad about Looper
So the 5th spot goes to Cashner I suppose. I am not thrilled about that, but I don’t see anyone else who can handle it now.
"Chicago baseball fans, who are composites of scar tissue and mortifying memories..." - George F. Will
Avatar provided courtesy of AndrewJStone.
I'm sorry the Cubs didn't give Casey Coleman a shot.
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I guess that would have made too much sense
Right? I just am not convinced Cashner has the stamina to be a major league starter. I hope I am wrong, though.
"Chicago baseball fans, who are composites of scar tissue and mortifying memories..." - George F. Will
Avatar provided courtesy of AndrewJStone.
I'm being completely honest when I say:
whenever you question common sense moves like this, just remember who the GM is. Hendry has gotten worse every season.
"Oh Crap"
-Famous Last Words by General George Custer
Coleman earned an opportunity
to be part of the rotation. See, that’s what the problem is with the team. It’s run like an old boy’s club where certain people are accepted or rejected based upon some unmeasurable criteria. If we are to reach the success level of teams like the Red Sox and Yankees, changes must be made. Instead of selling a feel good sensation, decisions by management must be based upon doing good.
The team has numerous choices for the roster this year. If management chooses the likes of Hill and Silva and Shark and DeWitt when other better options are out there, it will be a clear signal that this organization just doesn’t get it.
If a quality pitching start is 3 runs and 6 innings, then a quality hitting day is 1 for 4.
by tharr on Mar 19, 2011 9:44 PM CDT up reply actions 2 recs
I think the organization gets it
problem is – they are run like a business. Bottom line = $$. Funny thing is – their bottom line would grow if they win.
I have already invested 30 living years into this team. I feel awful for those older than me.
"Hey.....Cubs win!!!" ---Harry
"Swung on belted!!!"---Chip
The Hill choice
is not about money, but you are right. If the team was a consistent winner, their bottom line would improve.
If a quality pitching start is 3 runs and 6 innings, then a quality hitting day is 1 for 4.
Sadly, it really might be
Hill is making nearly a million dollars.
That might be enough money to convince the Cubs he needs to stick around.
"Oh Crap"
-Famous Last Words by General George Custer
He's making $400,000 over the minimum.
And I believe you could save some of that by letting him go before Opening Day.
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I agree with you about Coleman
Coleman is going to be a Greg Maddux like pitcher. I know that he has been compared to Maddux, and I’m wondering if Maddux will take some time to talk to him a little bit. I was hoping they would give Shark another shot at a rotation spot. We’ve heard that over the past two seasons, but this season we’ve not heard as much about that situation. Cashner will probably get it, but I figure that he will be used only for 4 to 5 innings at first, so the bp better be just as strong on the 5th day.
by alabamacubbie on Mar 20, 2011 8:40 AM CDT up reply actions
Other than not really giving Coleman much of a shot....
Cashner did better than the other pitchers. He won the spot.
"A dream you dream alone is only a dream. A dream you dream together is reality." John Lennon
"My favorite food is Macaroni and Cheese, from the blue box." Geovany Soto
Let Cashner start the year as #5
and then if they fall out of the race and he has pitched his innings they can shut him down and put Coleman there for the remainder of the year, that way Coleman gets to pitch most of the season in AAA and still get a look see at the end of the year. If they are in the race and Cashner is pitching well they leave him in the rotation.
Four good innings against the Indians minor leaguers won the 5th spot in the rotation?
That is sad.
Cashner should start wherever is best for him, not the club. Meaning, let’s not mess with the kid’s head if he is not ready.
"I'd rather hit home runs you don't have to run as hard." -- Dave Kingman
by BucknerKongCardenal on Mar 19, 2011 10:57 PM CDT up reply actions
Sad or not....he beat the other pitchers.
"A dream you dream alone is only a dream. A dream you dream together is reality." John Lennon
"My favorite food is Macaroni and Cheese, from the blue box." Geovany Soto
Darwin
I would love to see Barney at second. He has been a pretty good hitter this spring. Better than DeWitt, right?
I think the 2nd base battle will extend into the regular season.
Between DeWitt, Baker, and Barney. I don’t care who wins or what platoon plays as long as they don’t “hurt” the team. Any positives out of second would be a plus. (What year was it that the Cubs left ST with three or four 2nd basemen I wanna say Jerry Hairston and Tony Womack were two of them)? It’s beginning to remind me of that then.
At least.
I remember one specific game where they had FIVE second basemen in the game at the same time.
This one on May 28, 2006. Womack, Hairston, Todd Walker, Freddie Bynum and Ronny Cedeno were all in the game at the same time.
That year is best forgotten.
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I remeber thinking that they will trade someone or
that one of them would have a good season. None of which happened.
Geez,
Did they really need five second basemen? Keeping them was insanity, as I recall.
I didn't believe it last August, but it turns out that love survives.
State high point count: 3/50
If you are grouchy, irritable, or just plain mean, there will be a $10 charge for putting up with you.
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Mar 19, 2011 8:44 PM CDT up reply actions
What are you talking about?
Those 2nd basemen led them to 66 wins that year!
Keep that Q Train rollin' in '11. Let's win it for Ronnie.
Their most wins since the previous year!
I didn't believe it last August, but it turns out that love survives.
State high point count: 3/50
If you are grouchy, irritable, or just plain mean, there will be a $10 charge for putting up with you.
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Mar 19, 2011 8:46 PM CDT up reply actions
They did go
8-18 in the game. Perhaps they had a good idea before it’s time.
If a quality pitching start is 3 runs and 6 innings, then a quality hitting day is 1 for 4.
I'd guess most of them would fail the course.
If a quality pitching start is 3 runs and 6 innings, then a quality hitting day is 1 for 4.
Or fail out of the college.
I didn't believe it last August, but it turns out that love survives.
State high point count: 3/50
If you are grouchy, irritable, or just plain mean, there will be a $10 charge for putting up with you.
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Mar 19, 2011 10:10 PM CDT up reply actions
Then 2nd basemen
would also love Koyie. I wish all people had the opportunity to see the goodness in him.
If a quality pitching start is 3 runs and 6 innings, then a quality hitting day is 1 for 4.
imagine if Koyie "Mike hates me" Hill
was on that 2006 team. Mmmm….56 wins…..
By all that's holy, I am going to attend the 2012 Randy Hundley Fantasy Camp.
Lets put 7 men at Second and pray the opponents never hit the ball elsewhere.
If the Cubs still have a chance, no matter how small, it’s still Go Cubs, damn the math and pass the KoolAid.
Hendry says:
I give you DeRosa at 2B or nothing at all! Ever! And lots of it!
Hendry has a blindspot at 2B and it’s getting pretty old.
"I'd rather hit home runs you don't have to run as hard." -- Dave Kingman
by BucknerKongCardenal on Mar 19, 2011 10:47 PM CDT up reply actions
it seems like the org is banking on Baker being
a DeRosa for this team…
by hansman1982 on Mar 20, 2011 12:01 AM CDT up reply actions
BD has earned the job however
by midseason he’ll have a mediocre .600 OPS and folks will be discussing his scappiness. If you can somehow get an aging Young without further raping the farm system then go for it. Other than Marmol, this team does nothing particularly well. The current Vegas over/under on the ‘11 Cubs is 81.5 wins which at this point looks like a pipe dream. I predict 72 wins out of our current collection of ’no hit, no field’ misfits.
I'm wet nurse to a (5th)-place, dead-to-the-neck-up ball club, and I'm choking to death!
Oops, i meant DB, damn Dyslexia..
I'm wet nurse to a (5th)-place, dead-to-the-neck-up ball club, and I'm choking to death!
Dyslexics of the world...UNITE!
What? You thought it was gonna be something else? Bigot…
"Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have?" -Frank Chance
"If [Ruth] had [called his shot], I would have knocked him down with the next pitch." -Charlie Root
I haven't followed Cashner that closely this spring, but for those who have...
Assuming he ends up with the 5th spot in the rotation, did he win it or was it more a matter of everyone else losing it?
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
As would I
But I’d still be pissed I’d have to fork over my left arm to see him pitch every 5th day
Keep that Q Train rollin' in '11. Let's win it for Ronnie.
Both
During the Pat Listach interview today with Len and Bob, Listach said Cashner was moving to the rotation. I don’t know if the Cubs already made a decision but haven’t said it publicly yet, or if he just assumed Cash was going to be in it.
"A dream you dream alone is only a dream. A dream you dream together is reality." John Lennon
"My favorite food is Macaroni and Cheese, from the blue box." Geovany Soto
If that's the case...
… Listach may have slipped. It would seem the logical thing, to dump Silva and give Cashner the slot. We already know Silva’s not headed to the bullpen. Randy Wells has won the #4 spot, so that’s the only conclusion that makes sense.
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It may have been a slip..
..but Listach did definitely say that Cashner was “being slid into the rotation.”
or it could just be
that Cashner is going to be a starter and Listach didnt specify outside of what might be insider lingo
by hansman1982 on Mar 20, 2011 12:03 AM CDT up reply actions
I couldn't agree more on each of those points.
- Get rid of Looper, Silva, Hill, and Perez. I would welcome Michael Young with open arms, big contract and all. Let’s do it.
On another note, I hope Garza is just toying with us this spring. I’m getting nervous about him…I still think getting rid of Archer for him was a bad move.
I think you traded
Archer for a developed version of Archer and gambled that either him or Lee wouldnt pan out - Garza has a couple years of success under his belt…would be an epic fail for him to not be able to be successful again
by hansman1982 on Mar 20, 2011 12:05 AM CDT up reply actions
There is a reason Barney has won at
Every level….I think he is good enough and hungry to play. Maybe we need more of that this year (so far).
We'll miss you Big Boy. #10 for Hall of Fame.
by mrcubsfan on Mar 19, 2011 7:56 PM CDT via mobile reply actions
Apart from the NTC and the money owed him...
… sure, that’d be easy.
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Forget all that....
He’s a detriment to the team. He hasn’t improved 1 little bit. Forget the money and worry about the quality of this team.
Dump Shark, Koyie Hill, Silva, Baker or Dewitt. Keep Cashner, Ramirez, Barney, and Reed. Colvin needs to be staryting even if its over Soriano. Send Castillo down to be an everyday starter.
Please.
Eat his contract, waive his NTC, just get him off my team.
I didn't believe it last August, but it turns out that love survives.
State high point count: 3/50
If you are grouchy, irritable, or just plain mean, there will be a $10 charge for putting up with you.
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Mar 19, 2011 8:46 PM CDT up reply actions
But a NTC is not the same as sending him back to Iowa.
Why can’t they do that, I never read the “we can’t release Shark thread” so forgive my ignorance.
He's out of options
I have PMS & a GPS -- which means -- I am a bitch, and I will find you.
by cub in louies nest on Mar 19, 2011 8:58 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
considering the spring hes had, hell get claimed
probably by houston
He's my Hossa
HO-HO-HO-HO-HOSSA
by jesus christos on Mar 19, 2011 9:34 PM CDT up reply actions
that is preferable
to releasing him…worst case scenario he declines the waiver claim and spends the year at Iowa never to play baseball or football again
by hansman1982 on Mar 20, 2011 12:06 AM CDT up reply actions
Shark's no trade clause means that he cant be waived,
and nobody would claim that contract anyway. I think he starts the season with the big team, and if he isnt good enough, he gets released. He then would be free to resume his career as a minor league free agent, albeit a wealthy one
ask not what the Cubs can do for you - ask what you can do for the Cubs.
by holy mackeral on Mar 20, 2011 9:59 AM CDT up reply actions
At this point..
..the biggest I can hope for Shark is that he sets a Arena League Football record for most receiving TD’s in a career.
I thought the Arena Football League folded.
Either last year or the year before.
I didn't believe it last August, but it turns out that love survives.
State high point count: 3/50
If you are grouchy, irritable, or just plain mean, there will be a $10 charge for putting up with you.
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Mar 19, 2011 10:48 PM CDT up reply actions
they are still pushing AFL
season tickets in Iowa
by hansman1982 on Mar 20, 2011 12:06 AM CDT up reply actions
What exactly is
“value as mop-up reliever”? hahahaha
Pitching Woes
Depressing to see bad pitching two games in a row. Quade didn’t field a serious lineup today, so not taking the rest of today too seriously.
Those of us behind Reed Johnson will probably get our wish. Unless they can trade Fukudome, there isn’t much more that can be done with the outfield.
I agree, Barney has quietly had a good ST.
Michael Young Trade
I have been against a Michael Young trade, but now that the Rangers are letting on that they’d be willing to eat half of his contract, I think the Cubs have to consider it. At $8mm per year, they’d have to part with someone of at least minor value, but Young’s ability to play both 2nd and 3rd helps this year and next when Ramirez will go.
I wonder if Shark
can and would waive his NTC and be part of that trade.
If a quality pitching start is 3 runs and 6 innings, then a quality hitting day is 1 for 4.
Then Shark can be the closer for the Rangers.
If the Rangers move Feliz to the rotation, I’d bet they’d want Cashner for Young and move Cashner to the end of the bullpen. And no way do the Cubs do that…better to just see what Barney can do at that point.
No way do the Rangers take Silva and Fukudome off our hands for us for Young. I could see them taking Byrd back as they want to move Hamilton to LF.
"I'd rather hit home runs you don't have to run as hard." -- Dave Kingman
by BucknerKongCardenal on Mar 19, 2011 10:40 PM CDT up reply actions
As I watched Max hit a Grand Ram today, this image flashed through my mind...

Yep, that’s Jim Hendry sitting in the chair on the left; looking mighty fine by the way. Not sure who’s at the podium – probably Pat Hughes. And the three hunks on the right? Why that’s Max Ramirez, Wellington Castillo, and Koyie Hill. Let’s listen in…
Hendry: “Backup Catcher #1 – what have you done to prove that you should be on my team?”
Max: “Well, I am hitting almost .300 this spring with 9 RBI. Oh, and that grand slam I hit today? Two words – Opposite field. I think that merits a chance to show it was worth giving up Sam Fuld for me.”
Hendry: “Ooooh, self-confidence. I like that in a catcher.”
Hendry: “Backup Catcher #2 – same question.”
Wellington: “Well, I don’t like to brag but I am hitting over .700 this spring. And with a nickname like ‘Beef’, the ladies will be lining up to buy tickets when I play.”
Hendry: “Hmm… ticket sales… I know somebody who would like the sound of that…”
Hendry: “Backup Catcher #3 – how about you?”
Koyie: “Ummm….. errrr…… well…. uhhhh…. (clears throat)… gosh, ummm…. the pitchers like me?”
Hendry: “Awww…. that’s so cute…”
Hendry: “Pat, I gotta go with Backup Catcher #3. The other guys certainly had impressive figures but something about #3 just makes me forget all logic. I’m going with my heart on this one.”
Pat: “Alright then. Until next time, everybody…”

Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
by ballhawk on Mar 19, 2011 8:40 PM CDT reply actions 12 recs
LOL.
So true. I really wonder if that was similar to the actual thought process.
I didn't believe it last August, but it turns out that love survives.
State high point count: 3/50
If you are grouchy, irritable, or just plain mean, there will be a $10 charge for putting up with you.
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Mar 19, 2011 8:45 PM CDT up reply actions
Al's nailed the obvious solution
There’s a long list of MLB catchers who’ve successfully transitioned into coaching including 13 MLB managers at the end of ’09 season. I hate being a cheerleader anyone to lose their job but Koyie needs to go. Make him a coach.
I'm wet nurse to a (5th)-place, dead-to-the-neck-up ball club, and I'm choking to death!
I understand Charlie Sheen
is resurrecting the series. Only difference is he’ll be playing all the male roles.
If a quality pitching start is 3 runs and 6 innings, then a quality hitting day is 1 for 4.
Unerring, ballhawk!
I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve. -J.R.R. Tolkien
I don't think trading Mike Diaz and Bill Campbell shook anyone up particularly.
Campbell was a bullpen pitcher and Diaz wasn’t even going to make the team. It’s not like Durham or Cey or Moreland heard about the trade of a minor leaguer and bullpen pitcher with an ERA over 4.00 and said, “They traded Diaz and Campbell? Man, I’d better get to work. Nobody’s safe.”
What the trade did was bring a leader, Gary Matthews, to a rudderless team. (didn’t hurt to get a one year wonder of a leadoff hitter either) Later in the season they added another leader in Rick Sutcliffe. You are right, however, they absolutely would not have won without these guys.
The analogy does beg the question
Would Dick Ruthven or Chuck Rainey be the 5 on this year’s team?
Makes one wonder what Wade Miller is up to these days.
I thought the Phillies also landed Ruthven in the Mathews deal?
"I'd rather hit home runs you don't have to run as hard." -- Dave Kingman
by BucknerKongCardenal on Mar 19, 2011 10:51 PM CDT up reply actions
Nope.
Ruthven was on the 1984 Cubs. Still on the Cubs in ’85 and ’86, finally released.
Dallas Green did most things right for the Cubs. However, Ruthven was a real blind spot for him. Ruthven had been an important cog in getting the Phillies to the WS in 1980 and I guess Green felt obligated to him. Ruthven sucked for the 1984 Cubs, but he was placed on the playoff roster instead of Rich Bordi or Rick Reuschel, both of whom would have been better — Bordi, in particular, had a good year and would have been real useful in game 4 or 5.
Meanwhile, Ruthven did not pitch at all in the 1984 NLCS.
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Ouch.
That breaks my heart a little to see Reuschel left off the playoff roster for Ruthven, especially considering I thought Ruthven had already been traded!
Trivia question that I don’t have an answer to:
Who were the Cubs starting pitchers in 1984 before they traded for Eckersley and Sutcliffe? Trout, Sanderson, Ruthven and…?
"I'd rather hit home runs you don't have to run as hard." -- Dave Kingman
by BucknerKongCardenal on Mar 19, 2011 11:17 PM CDT up reply actions
Chuck Rainey made 16 starts.
Bordi made seven. That pretty much takes you to the acquisition of Sutcliffe & Eckersley.
Dickie Noles started one game. Reggie Patterson and Don Schulze each started one after the division clinching.
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Right, that was the point.
The point was to get some leadership and ability both. They did get it, and more with Sutcliffe, and don’t forget the Eckersley deal as well.
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Speaking of Reuschel in 1984...
I remember going to a game on a Saturday in June against the Phillies that Reuschel started. He just got pounded in the first inning – one of those days where you’re walking to your seats and the other team is hitting balls all over the field and circling the bases and it’s already 5-0 when you finally sit down. The Cubs lost that game and got swept by the Phils in a four game series that weekend and it really felt like they were falling apart.
A couple of days later, Sutcliffe made his first start as a Cub in Pittsburgh and won to stop the bleeding. Exactly one week after the horrid Reuschel game, I was at Wrigley Field as the Cubs beat the Cardinals in the Sandberg game. In fact, the Cubs swept the Cards that weekend. I can never remember such a monumental shift in how I thought the Cubs were going to do as that one week in June of ’84. It was really fun.
Reuschel was pretty bad in ’84. But Bordi definitely should have been on the playoff roster. I blame Hendry.
A memory of Reuschel in 1984...
I remember going to a game on a Saturday in June against the Phillies that Reuschel started. He just got pounded in the first inning – one of those days where you’re walking to your seats and the other team is hitting balls all over the field and circling the bases and it’s already 5-0 when you finally sit down. The Cubs lost that game and got swept by the Phils in a four game series that weekend and it really felt like they were falling apart.
A couple of days later, Sutcliffe made his first start as a Cub in Pittsburgh and won to stop the bleeding. Exactly one week after the horrid Reuschel game, I was at Wrigley Field as the Cubs beat the Cardinals in the Sandberg game. In fact, the Cubs swept the Cards that weekend. I can never remember such a monumental shift in how I thought the Cubs were going to do as that one week in June of ’84. It was really fun.
Reuschel was pretty bad in ’84. But Bordi definitely should have been on the playoff roster. I blame Hendry.
Don't worry about it.
Yes, Reuschel was bad in ‘84 — which led Green to let him walk after that year. Unfortunately, he wasn’t fully recovered from rotator cuff surgery that year. He had a great year for the Pirates in 1985. The Cubs could have used him then.
Anyway, you’re right about Bordi. Bordi was an effective long reliever/spot starter for the ’84 Cubs — in the days when managers actually used pitchers in that role. He would have been very useful in the NLCS.
The game you’re talking about was this one, from June 16, 1984.
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a note regarding the Phillies and the Matthews/Dernier trade
2 days before the Cubs trade, the Phillies traded lefty reliever Willie Hernandez to Detroit for right handed hitting outfielders Glenn Wilson and John Wockenfuss. Those 2 made Matthews & Dernier expendable. With no Tigers deal, the Phillies wouldnt have made the Cub trade.
Hernandez went on to win AL Cy Young and MVP Awards and Detroit coasted to the World Series. The 2 Phillies trades in 48 hours played a crucial role in both the Tigers’ and Cubs’ championships. Adding to the Phillies’ pain was knowing that they had traded away 1984’s 2 MVPs, Hernandez and Sandberg.
ask not what the Cubs can do for you - ask what you can do for the Cubs.
by holy mackeral on Mar 20, 2011 10:12 AM CDT up reply actions
And if the Cubs hadn't traded Hernandez to the Phils in '83 after a very good '82,
for the above mentioned and fairly useless Dick Ruthven, who knows what happens? Hard to believe the presence of Glenn Wilson and John Wockenfuss made anyone expendable with the exception of Glenn Wilson and John Wockenfuss.
yes, Willie Hernandez would have helped the Cubs in 1984, as they had no lefty in the bullpen
and maybe he could have struck out Steve Garvey in game 4 of the NLCS. As for the Phillies, they obviously did prefer Wilson and Wockenfuss to Matthews and Dernier. Wilson was an All Star in 1985.
ask not what the Cubs can do for you - ask what you can do for the Cubs.
by holy mackeral on Mar 20, 2011 1:43 PM CDT up reply actions
it is silly to debate this 27 years later, but for what it is worth
Hernandez was dominant against both lefties and righties in 1984, and he likely would have been on the mound for that entire fateful inning. http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/split.cgi?id=hernawi01&year=1984&t=p
ask not what the Cubs can do for you - ask what you can do for the Cubs.
by holy mackeral on Mar 20, 2011 3:37 PM CDT up reply actions
Wilson was an All Star but with a WAR under 3.0 that year he wasn't
exactly amazing. And you’re right, I’m sure they wanted to go younger and get rid of Matthews and knew Dernier was not all that great either.
Koyie Hill
Has a lucky charm in Jim Hendry. I was driving home and listened to Hendry gush about him on the radio. Heck, we all like the guy. He has a compelling story, but, he hasn’t earned the job. A back-up catcher is just that. A once a week guy. I don’t see the logic in keeping a guy that the pitchers all like, but you hope you only have to see once a week.
Especially in keeping him when he can't hit a baseball, period.
And two other guys who should be competing for his job are both going to miss the big league team despite hitting the cover off the ball in ST while Koyie Hill, who misses everything in sight, is getting the big league job.
I didn't believe it last August, but it turns out that love survives.
State high point count: 3/50
If you are grouchy, irritable, or just plain mean, there will be a $10 charge for putting up with you.
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Mar 19, 2011 9:44 PM CDT up reply actions
Common sense says keep Ramirez, send Castillo to Iowa, release Hill and make him a roving minor league catching instrutor.
That way we keep Ramirez since he WILL get claimed off waivers, Castillo gets regular at bats at AAA and will be ready if Soto or Ramirez gets injured, and our young catchers benefit from Hill on his one skill which is how to make pitchers like you. No brainer, hire me as GM.
by jpeters407 on Mar 19, 2011 9:52 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
That makes perfect sense.
Which is almost certainly why the Cubs aren’t doing it.
I didn't believe it last August, but it turns out that love survives.
State high point count: 3/50
If you are grouchy, irritable, or just plain mean, there will be a $10 charge for putting up with you.
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Mar 19, 2011 10:01 PM CDT up reply actions
Either that, or keep Hill...
… as a major league consultant, so he can be around the major league pitchers who seem to like him.
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ha, I agree with Al
make him the Bullpen coach or bullpen catcher and give him a fancy title…
Im sorry Koyie…I know I rented you an apartment when you first came to the Iowa Cubs but you have to go…you are the weakest link…goodbye
by hansman1982 on Mar 20, 2011 12:20 AM CDT up reply actions
Hill is good enough to be a September callup or injury replacement
if the Cubs do release him (wishful thinking), I suspect Hill would get a minor league job with another team, with hopes of that September callup. He is legitimate, in that regard.
ask not what the Cubs can do for you - ask what you can do for the Cubs.
by holy mackeral on Mar 20, 2011 1:46 PM CDT up reply actions
and thats how he came to the Cubs
AAA roster filler, maybe a decent backup who is young…but now he is the 1A starter at C…the best thing for him long term is to begin his coaching career
One thing about Hendry I have learned
He is more of a PR guy then GM. Nothing is every terrible in his eyes. He may be, unfortunately, truly delusional.
"Hey.....Cubs win!!!" ---Harry
"Swung on belted!!!"---Chip
To paraphrase Al...
“It is time for Hendry to ask him to step aside and take a coaching scouting job in the organization.”
by EalyEagle on Mar 19, 2011 10:19 PM CDT up reply actions 7 recs
LOL!!!!
Rec’d!
I didn't believe it last August, but it turns out that love survives.
State high point count: 3/50
If you are grouchy, irritable, or just plain mean, there will be a $10 charge for putting up with you.
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Mar 19, 2011 10:20 PM CDT up reply actions
Jim
Would have a lot to talk about with Ed Lynch, Jerry Krause and Larry D’Amato.
Larry can talk all day about the 70’s Pirates and Reds
Jerry can talk about how much Jordan hates him
Ed can talk about how the Cubs paid him for years to sit at 81 Diamondback games.
Jim can go on an on about him failed like the rest of em.
"Hey.....Cubs win!!!" ---Harry
"Swung on belted!!!"---Chip
No reason to turn mean here..
Don't tell me about the world. Not today. It's springtime and they're knocking baseballs around fields where the grass is damp and green in the morning and the kids are trying to hit the curve ball. ~Pete Hamill
by Joejohnnyfrank on Mar 19, 2011 11:15 PM CDT up reply actions
He has to be a PR guy when it comes to this team
If he were to admit that the roster he has put together is sub-par for a third straight season it would be akin to admitting he’s not good at his job.
"Oh Crap"
-Famous Last Words by General George Custer
Silva, Shark, DeWitt, Hill, Fukudome.
I’d be fine never seeing any of them play for the Cubs ever again. And yikes that is potentially 20% of the team.
"I'd rather hit home runs you don't have to run as hard." -- Dave Kingman
by BucknerKongCardenal on Mar 19, 2011 11:06 PM CDT reply actions
It is amazing
That, as you state, 20% of the roster is completely useless. World Series 2011 baby!!
Well – if the WS were to end at the end of June in Omaha – maybe.
"Hey.....Cubs win!!!" ---Harry
"Swung on belted!!!"---Chip
May be true
I also know we will not see Felix Pie or Corey Patterson – problem is that its a possibility and not completely obvious.
Behind closed doors – I honestly have NO FREAKING CLUE what they are talking about.
"Hey.....Cubs win!!!" ---Harry
"Swung on belted!!!"---Chip
I am beginning to lose faith in the org
and it has nothing to do with the on-the-field personnel moves and everything to do with the letter then sent out to Suite holders (Tom should have made that call himself), the separately sent ticket ledger – they just appear to be oblivious to the small things that add up. In racing when you are trying to get a car as light as possible the first rule is you look at the small stuff. The brackets, the headliner, the change in the ashtray before you tackle the big things like switching to an aluminum engine block. Right now it seems like the Cubs are trying to put a turbo-charger on a 3.4L v-6 and expect it to win NASCAR…
I have defended many of the moves they have made over the last year but quite frankly their level of inability to get the small shit right is really starting to bug me and that is making me question the big shit. I used to not care that they traded Lee and Archer for Garza but now that I can clearly see that they cant seem to pick up the phone to 57ish suite holders to explain to them something that is confusing at first glance is just baffling and I predict, if this continues, that the Cubs will be going through Bankruptcy by 2015…
by hansman1982 on Mar 20, 2011 12:30 AM CDT up reply actions
It really is time for Tom to bring in someone who knows what he's doing.
Tom, Crane, and Jim are becoming the Three Stooges.
GM's are in charge of Managers, not the other way around.
Still? Really?
They sent a letter, and you’re gonna fall on yer sword for it? Jesus, man – become a Lakers fan or something, because you’re way too overblown on this one, tiny little thing.
“My girl said she liked Nirvana – maybe I should suck off a shotgun to impress her.” Goddam, dude – get over it now. When you start reading the tea leaves that closely, you’ve got them in your eye and you’re trying to blink ’em out.
"Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have?" -Frank Chance
"If [Ruth] had [called his shot], I would have knocked him down with the next pitch." -Charlie Root
the easiest way
to see how someone will handle the big stuff in life is to see how they handle the little things. How they treat their best customers, how they treat the biggest accounts. If they get lazy with the suite holders then what stops them from getting lazy on teaching XYZ player to keep his head down on a sharp grounder…
Its easy to just throw whatever dollar amounts at the big name free agents each year…its another thing to turn prospects into big leaguers…again, if you cant do the small easy things right what the hell can you do right
I don’t think we will see Silva or Hill this year as Cubs
From your keyboard to Jim Hendry’s cellphone.
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It has to be true right??
It must be a PR thing to not come out and say it.
"Hey.....Cubs win!!!" ---Harry
"Swung on belted!!!"---Chip
it amazes me people think Hill won't be on this team.
Al left out a detail when comparing 1984 to this season.
Jim Hendry is a TERRIBLE general manager. Dallas Green was above average
"Oh Crap"
-Famous Last Words by General George Custer
sadly, you are likely correct
By all that's holy, I am going to attend the 2012 Randy Hundley Fantasy Camp.
Roster Decisions Made Easy - One *would* think so.
If the Cubs still have a chance, no matter how small, it’s still Go Cubs, damn the math and pass the KoolAid.
i know
its cliche to say its just spring training. but if the critics and experts are right then this will surely be an up and down season.this team has not really looked that good.and once again this is a talented team.and silva and koskue for mike young?i say we replace hendry with a mr al yellon right now.what does everybody think?
by NOMAR on Mar 20, 2011 7:14 AM CDT reply actions 1 recs
Chiming in late ...
and stealing NOMAR’s patented final word, but I’ll give my 2 cents.
If we’re going to acquire a second baseman who isn’t that good but who might be better than what we now have, I’d go after Luis Castillo. I know he’s not that good anymore, but neither, clearly, is Michael Young. Plus, the Cubs would have to pay Castillo league minimum for only one season, instead of $8 million plus to Young for THREE years.
Young is probably better than Castillo at this point, but no way is he $24 million better.
Also, picking up Young to get rid of Silva or Kosuke doesn’t make a lot of sense to me. In seven to eight months, Kosuke and Silva will not be paid another dime by the Cubs. Young could get another $16 million.
Now, I’m not crazy excited to have Castillo on the roster — at this point, I’m in the Barney camp — but it’s a cheaper and shorter-term move than picking up Young.
Castillo is awful.
I’d rather take my chances on DeWitt improving.
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But is Young $24 million better?
I’d just as soon go with neither of them, but if I’m going to take a risk on a lightning-in-a-bottle veteran …
I think the Castillo bottle is empty.
The point of making the deal I proposed would be to get Silva and Fukudome off the roster.
I’d think you’d be all in favor of that.
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Actually, I'm not.
As much as I take issue with Kosuke, he appears to be a viable leadoff hitter for a team without another one (I might feel differently if DeWitt were having a better spring).
I can’t wait until the Cubs are rid of Kosuke and Silva — but I’d rather let their contracts run out at the end of 2011 than have Young’s on the books for another two seasons.
Anyway, would the Rangers make the deal you proposed? Silva is worthless right now, and I don’t think the Rangers are hurting for a right fielder (maybe I’m wrong on that).
Finally — and I hate to mention this, Al — but you also thought Jim Edmonds’ tank was empty three years ago. Now, I don’t think Castillo could be nearly that good … but at least he wouldn’t require a three-year commitment.
For a team that lacks offense....
… Luis Castillo would give the team a second black hole in the lineup. Plus, as noted in the article talking about his release, there were apparently some attitude problems with him in Mets spring training. The Mets don’t really even have a suitable replacement for him, which tells you how desperate they were to get rid of him.
I’d stay WAY away from Luis Castillo.
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Fine. But for a team that has been lacking financial flexibility for years ...
I’d stay WAY away from Michael Young.
I was checking their roster
They have 4 or 5 other 2Bmen. None I’ve heard of.
My dachshund can hit better than Luis Castillo
we don’t need another light hitting no stick 2B on this team.
By all that's holy, I am going to attend the 2012 Randy Hundley Fantasy Camp.
I don't think you can say Young
is not any good anymore. He did hit .284 last year with 21 homers and 91 RBI. That’s a hell of a lot better than we got from our 2nd basemen, although we don’t know if he can play that position acceptably; he’s only played 3rd or DH’d the past two seasons. His OPS and OBP were down, but he never has been a high on base percentage guy. However, I would be more inclined to pay virtually no money and give Barney a shot at 2nd. It’s pretty unlikely we’re going to be vying for spot in the World Series anyway so why not see what Darwin can do and possibly strengthen the club in the future? I’m positive Dewitt isn’t the answer.
Yeah, you're right.
Young isn’t terrible — he’s just not worth (IMO) even $8 million a year for three years.
Give Barney a shot!
And in the not too distant future, DJ might be ready for the bigs. Castro is rally young and will be around for a long time (I hope). Pair him up with another young second baseman and let them develop a great DP combo together.
"You win because of the quarterback. We have to get that position stabilized. We're fixated on that." -- Jerry Angelo (12.30.2008)
Jerry Angelo trades for Jay Cutler! (4.2.2009)
I'm all for getting Young
But only if it’s for Soriano’s contract. I just don’t want the financial issues to extend more than they need to. I like Young and think he’s still got a lot left in the tank, but not enough to justify adding to the financial burden. The Cubs are done with Fukudome and Silva after this year. I think they should use that money to get good value rather than bad. While I like Young, he’s not value for his contract.
I would even consider adding some talent to the deal, perhaps one of the legitimate pitching prospects, but it needs to be dollar neutral.
by jerry morales rules on Mar 20, 2011 10:21 AM CDT reply actions
This is the problem
Trading for Young is exactly the kind of move you know Hendry will make at the trading deadline if the Cubs are even within shouting distance of the division. Remember in 09’ when they were seven games out and Hendry still refused to trade Harden? We’re going to make some stupid, vain move (just like the Garza one) to “show” our fan base how our front office is “going for it.” Then, when we win 81 games and finish in third, the front office will realize we added another hefty contract for a player who is neither good or has upside.
No AzPhil in close to a week
I want to know how minor league camp is going.
Sorry to see Looper couldn't hack it
Hope Cashner’s ready.
[...]when Giants coach Steve Owen, a certified defensive genius, was asked how he planned to stop Nagurski, he said: "With a shotgun, as he’s leaving the dressing room."
I don't know what to think of Matt Garza this spring
Whenever you hear reports or watch him pitch, it seems like he’s working on very specific things when he’s on the mound. There were a couple games where he worked on spotting his fastballs for example. He wouldn’t even throw a breaking pitch, even it meant an out. I wonder if he’s saving the Matt Garza we traded to get for the regular season.
"You just don't know understand how frustrating this is"- Kevin Borseth
which is what ST is for.
I put more into hitters than pitchers in ST. Pitchers work on all kinds of pitches in ST which means that they might get hit. However, Silva has shown nothing in ST. I’m not worried about Garza once the regular season starts.
By all that's holy, I am going to attend the 2012 Randy Hundley Fantasy Camp.
Spring Training
Spring Training can be a very misleading indicator of how a player will fare once the regular season starts. I remember back in "05 when all the reports were that Nomar was feeling great and having a great spring. Once the season started he was pretty much of a washout, even before he incurred a serious injury that made him totally useless for the year.
"All I'm asking for is what I want." -- Ricky Henderson

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