Chicago Cubs vs. Los Angeles Dodgers Preview, Tuesday 3/22, 3:05 CT: Roster Decisions Coming
by Al Yellon on Mar 22, 2011 1:00 PM CDT
in Chicago Cubs Game Threads
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SCOTTSDALE, Arizona -- Skies have cleared, although it's quite a bit cooler than it was last week. Temperatures are expected in the upper 60s today. (Yeah, I know. No sympathy from those of you in the cold Midwest or Northeast.)
As we know, there was a meeting this morning involving Mike Quade, all his coaches, and Jim Hendry and Randy Bush, to help bring the roster decisions that must be made soon into focus. We should know more about some of those decisions either later today or tomorrow. Let's hope they put loyalty and dollar issues aside and do what's right for the team.
Today, Ryan Dempster will face the Dodgers at Camelback Ranch. The other Cubs who should throw today are the relievers who didn't get to pitch yesterday: Jeff Samardzija, Jeff Stevens, John Grabow and Scott Maine. Dempster will face the Dodgers' Chad Billingsley. Among other Dodgers who may pitch today: Jonathan Broxton, Matt Guerrier, Hong-Chih Kuo, Ramon Troncoso, Travis Schlichting, Lance Cormier and Scott Elbert. Complete lineups after the jump.
Cubs lineup:
Fukudome RF Colvin LF Byrd CF Pena 1B Soto C Baker 3B DeWitt 2B Barney SS Dempster P
Dodgers lineup:
Furcal SS Paul CF Ethier RF Uribe 3B Gibbons 1B Gimenez LF Barajas C Velez 2B Billingsley P
Here's all the media information for today.
MLB.com Gameday for today's game
Here is the complete MLB.com Mediacenter for today. Today's game will again be televised on the MLB Network and will be on MLB.com with Len Kasper and Mick Gillispie.
Please visit our SB Nation Dodgers site True Blue LA..
There will be an overflow thread posting at 4:30 p.m. CDT. As usual, the overflow thread will NOT post on the front page but will be in the "Recent Stories In Game Threads" box on the right sidebar. If you need an extra overflow thread beyond that one, post it in the FanShot section.
Discuss amongst yourselves.
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Please No Shark in 2011
Please No Shark in 2011 Please No Shark in 2011 Please No Shark in 2011 Please No Shark in 2011 Please No Shark in 2011 Please No Shark in 2011 Please No Shark in 2011 Please No Shark in 2011 Please No Shark in 2011 Please No Shark in 2011 Please No Shark in 2011 Please No Shark in 2011 Please No Shark in 2011 Please No Shark in 2011 Please No Shark in 2011 Please No Shark in 2011 Please No Shark in 2011 Please No Shark in 2011 Please No Shark in 2011 Please No Shark in 2011 Please No Shark in 2011 Please No Shark in 2011 Please No Shark in 2011 Please No Shark in 2011 Please No Shark in 2011 Please No Shark in 2011 Please No Shark in 2011 Please No Shark in 2011 Please No Shark in 2011 Please No Shark in 2011 Please No Shark in 2011 Please No Shark in 2011 Please No Shark in 2011 Please No Shark in 2011 Please No Shark in 2011 Please No Shark in 2011
Keep that Q Train rollin' in '11. Let's win it for Ronnie.
Keeping Shark will happen -- and it's not the biggest tragedy in the world.
Keeping Silva and Hill? That’s another story.
Sounds like a horror story
~Ronald Reagan has held the two most demeaning jobs in the country; President of the United States and radio broadcaster for the Chicago Cubs~ George F. Will
by unretrofied93 on Mar 22, 2011 1:28 PM CDT up reply actions
Dump all three would be better
Keep that Q Train rollin' in '11. Let's win it for Ronnie.
by mikegncb34 on Mar 22, 2011 1:38 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
But who makes the pen other than Shark?
I see nothing encouraging from Stevens or Berg, and Wellemyer’s hurt.
Anybody...
we’ve had this guy for what now, going on 5 years? He isn’t any better than year 1. Time to move on. Shark, Silva and Hill should already have their bags packed and their tickets punched to anywhere BUT Chicago.
"I think part of a best friend's job should be to immediately clear your computer history if you die." - Anonymous
This
Keep that Q Train rollin' in '11. Let's win it for Ronnie.
by mikegncb34 on Mar 22, 2011 2:14 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
Shark has been a big disappointment.
But that doesn’t mean you should fall into “Ed’s move on mode” when the other options are worse. Shark still has more upside than Stevens, Berg, Mateo, Silva, etc.
I agree
I’d rather go with Samardzija as the last guy in the pen than any of the guys you listed.
Yes, he’s a big disappointment. But Stevens, Berg and Mateo were never good enough to disappoint.
by Josh Timmers on Mar 22, 2011 2:48 PM CDT up reply actions
If Samardzija can EVER learn to spot his fastball consistantly....
he will be quite useful as a reliever. Why the organization has failed in getting him to develop that skill is beyond me. They’ve had more than enough time.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Mar 22, 2011 2:51 PM CDT up reply actions
Well, just for the sake of discussion...
…isn’t it his job to develop that skill?
Contributing Editor, SB Nation Chicago. Please follow us on Twitter!
Yes daver...
but players don’t typically know how to simply develop some of the finer baseball skills on their own. This is what pitching coaches and the minor leagues are for. Again, his problems have basically been the same since he was signed. He’s got decent stuff, but none of it is in the strike zone very often.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Mar 22, 2011 2:56 PM CDT up reply actions
And now the pitching coach who (arguably) failed him in the minors ...
is the pitching coach in the bigs.
This organization is top notch, no?
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Mar 22, 2011 3:00 PM CDT up reply actions
I was never a fan of the Riggins pick.
I mean, the guy went 16 years between being a major league pitching coach.
it's because of his Mustache
"There had to be a place where the game could be fun again….that place is called Wrigley Field"---Andre Dawson
Well, they could have applied the money from Koyie Hill ...
to hire a pitching coach who was in higher demand. Now, if you’ll excuse me, I have some more cans of worms to open …
That's true, of course.
I’d just be more apt to blame Samardzija’s limitations than his coaches.
Contributing Editor, SB Nation Chicago. Please follow us on Twitter!
He has one pitch
you need two to be a pen guy, and four to be a starter. The league adjusted and he hasn’t adjusted back.
His secondary offerings are weak, that’s the real issue.
"What do you think, I just dunked my whole career?" Jordan asked Henderson after making a 3.
"You’ve got to miss eventually," Henderson told him.
"That’s what Cleveland said," replied Jordan
Do you have any hope for Mateo?
He seems like the only guy left in the mix who can bring some decent velocity to the table.
Contributing Editor, SB Nation Chicago. Please follow us on Twitter!
I've never liked Mateo
Yes, he throws hard, but he doesn’t get many swings and misses. And he’s a flyball pitcher too.
by Josh Timmers on Mar 22, 2011 2:57 PM CDT up reply actions
After Shark ...
who would you take to be the final right hander in the pen — assuming it’s not Cashner (or Silva)?
Is Coleman fighting for a spot?
because I’d take him over anyone.
I guess Stevens would be my second choice after Samardzija, assuming that Coleman is on the team.
by Josh Timmers on Mar 22, 2011 3:04 PM CDT up reply actions
Coleman as a reliever?
Doesn’t he have more value as an innings eater?
I guess he could do that in a swing man role …
Why Stevens instead of Berg or Mateo?
Sure
but I’d rather see him pitching in the majors than Iowa. He’s the best pitcher among all of them.
I’d take Stevens because he can get swings and misses, although the walks are maddening. I’d just take his upside over Berg and Mateo’s guaranteed mediocrity. Yes, he walks too many, but we are talking about someone who is likely to only pitch in blowouts until he shows some results.
by Josh Timmers on Mar 22, 2011 3:09 PM CDT up reply actions
Josh
Looking forward to your posts again. Last year they at least gave me some hope for the future :)
''"I always thought I was the most competitive person out there. I never thought I'd find anybody more competitive until I met him.'' Ryan Dempster talking about Ted Lilly
by Madison Cub Fan on Mar 22, 2011 3:11 PM CDT up reply actions
I'm a Coleman fan.
But it doesn’t seem like he’s getting much of a look this spring.
Probably not
But he’ll be the first one called up when there’s an opening.
by Josh Timmers on Mar 22, 2011 3:12 PM CDT up reply actions
Same here, el...
I liked what I saw of him at the end of ‘10…he really hasn’t had much of a chance this spring, has he?
"I think part of a best friend's job should be to immediately clear your computer history if you die." - Anonymous
What easy Ed said
Give me Stevens over berg and shark
Keep that Q Train rollin' in '11. Let's win it for Ronnie.
by mikegncb34 on Mar 22, 2011 2:15 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
Agreed.
I’m as skeptical of Samardzija as you all, but he’s 26 years old and can throw harder than Stevens, Berg and Wellemeyer — combined. So I see no harm in trying to get at least a little value back for all of the money and time the Cubs have spent on him.
Contributing Editor, SB Nation Chicago. Please follow us on Twitter!
THANK you.
I’m not a Shark fan, but Berg was awful last year. Stevens has nothing and Wellemyer’s hurt.
Roster Decisions
I think only two are really important – who starts at 2b, and who are the top two middle relievers?
Pena, Castro, Ramirez, Soto, Soriano, Colvin, Dome, and Byrd are the heart of our offense, and as the go, the Cubs will go irrespective of the backups. I’m with Al that Barney should get the nod vs RHP at 2b – though he and everyone else hate my Scales love :)
SP – Dempster, Z, wells, Garza – Barring a trade, choosing one fifth starter over another at this point won’t matter (good reason to give it to Cashner), but we need 3 of the 4 to be very good or elite to compete well.
RP – Marmol, Wood, Marshall, meh – Good years by these guys is 1000 times more important than who we fill out the pen with, but it would be nice if just two mostly-dependable guys can show up – not sure who that is.
by DisCUBbobulated on Mar 22, 2011 1:31 PM CDT reply actions
Scales has never been that impressive in the bigs.
He had an extended shot in 2009, and was mediocre at best.
In 2009
I thought Scales was a great story. But 2 years older I don’t see him as getting better than he was in 09. Minus the feel good part of the story he was average.
''"I always thought I was the most competitive person out there. I never thought I'd find anybody more competitive until I met him.'' Ryan Dempster talking about Ted Lilly
by Madison Cub Fan on Mar 22, 2011 2:00 PM CDT up reply actions
He had 100 or so AB's in 09 and hit .250 with a .740 ops vs RHP - that's average, but serviceable for a backup utility guy
2009 was actually his worst year in the minors, but he picked it up last year to well above his carreer average. He’s a .412 pinch hitter and runs well. As a backup, he doesn’t have to be impressive – he has to fit into a role.
by DisCUBbobulated on Mar 22, 2011 2:14 PM CDT up reply actions
At least two more
decent arms in the BP are essential. One cannot reasonably expect Marmol, Wood, and Marshal to pitch every day given our starters go 6-7 innings each. Only then will the importance of filling out the pen be reduced.
And so it goes.
Damn I was hoping we'd find out roster moves today
''"I always thought I was the most competitive person out there. I never thought I'd find anybody more competitive until I met him.'' Ryan Dempster talking about Ted Lilly
by Madison Cub Fan on Mar 22, 2011 1:58 PM CDT reply actions
Because we are cub fans
And this is what happens.
Keep that Q Train rollin' in '11. Let's win it for Ronnie.
by mikegncb34 on Mar 22, 2011 2:16 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
I need to quit reading those side-bar stories...
Koyie Hill has gone 1-for-27 (.037) so far, but is well-respected for how he handles the pitchers and what he does behind the scenes. The Cubs place a high value on his experience.
…they give me gas.
"I think part of a best friend's job should be to immediately clear your computer history if you die." - Anonymous
I can't believe how stupid this organization can be sometimes
GM's are in charge of Managers, not the other way around.
Aka
“koyie sucks, but he sure does get along with everyone!”
Keep that Q Train rollin' in '11. Let's win it for Ronnie.
by mikegncb34 on Mar 22, 2011 2:23 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
Hill does suck
But if any of us would sit down and write what are the 3 things that worry us most about the Cubs this year. Would Hill be on that list? I wish he was in the top 3.
Far more concerned about defense, bullpen, and if our so call super stars will produce.
''"I always thought I was the most competitive person out there. I never thought I'd find anybody more competitive until I met him.'' Ryan Dempster talking about Ted Lilly
by Madison Cub Fan on Mar 22, 2011 2:26 PM CDT up reply actions
That's true.
The Koyie bashing isn’t so much about the team on the field as it is the the front office making decisions.
GM's are in charge of Managers, not the other way around.
Well, a backup catcher is probably gonna get 7 or 8 ABs a week, right?
Hill is a rally killer. Out of those 7 or 8 ABs a week, half will probably be rally killing ABs. For a team who needs every little run they can get, he’s not the solution.
"I think part of a best friend's job should be to immediately clear your computer history if you die." - Anonymous
Also...
he usually bats 8th. The 8th spot would get a few intentional BBs with the pitcher due up next, right? Would you be afraid to pitch to Koyie Hill? I don’t think so, so, that’s 2 automatic outs in a row. It’s a no win situation.
"I think part of a best friend's job should be to immediately clear your computer history if you die." - Anonymous
I hate Hill
Partially b/c Soto is my favorite player.
If you play 6 games that week. That means your average daily player will get 20-25.
So in a month that between 80 &100. Hill getting maybe 30.
Sori and Aram’s AB’s concern me far more. Would I like a back up catcher who hits sure. But I’d prefer LF and starting 3rd baseman who actually hit and play defense. Over the course of a week there playing time is going to matter more than Hill’s
Shoemile
That is a good point
''"I always thought I was the most competitive person out there. I never thought I'd find anybody more competitive until I met him.'' Ryan Dempster talking about Ted Lilly
by Madison Cub Fan on Mar 22, 2011 3:01 PM CDT up reply actions
HE LOVES HIS MAMA
"Baseball is almost the only orderly thing in a very unorderly world. If you get three strikes, even the best lawyer in the world can't get you off." ~ Bill Veeck
Yep
That and the stories about Z is a changed man. I don’t care if he’s changed if he plays badly.
''"I always thought I was the most competitive person out there. I never thought I'd find anybody more competitive until I met him.'' Ryan Dempster talking about Ted Lilly
by Madison Cub Fan on Mar 22, 2011 2:23 PM CDT up reply actions
I like this part...
what he does behind the scenes
I don’t care if he runs a shelter for homeless kittens and donates bone marrow and plasma everyday…he can’t play baseball anymore and they need to start to realize this…SOON.
"I think part of a best friend's job should be to immediately clear your computer history if you die." - Anonymous
Agreed.
You know, this wouldn’t be nearly as galling if the Cubs didn’t have TWO other candidates to back up Geo who were so much better than Hill.
I’d even be OK if Hill got the job if he was still good defensively, but the guy can’t throw anymore. Hell, can we just make him the bullpen catcher?
who's to say
he’s better than our current bullpen catcher….
"There had to be a place where the game could be fun again….that place is called Wrigley Field"---Andre Dawson
Well ...
I don’t think it would be something we’d bitch about too much.
we'd find a way...
"There had to be a place where the game could be fun again….that place is called Wrigley Field"---Andre Dawson
Our current bullpen catcher
hits better than KH. Who’s our current BPC?
We have a winner
Great post. It is baffling for sure. But what will we all write about it they don’t go with hill? oh wait, there is always Shark, Silva, Mateo, terrible defense….etc, etc.
You can get more with a kind word and a gun than you can with a kind word alone. - Al Capone
Silva is still in the rotation mix, says Quade.
Per Sully’s tweet. Argh!
just saw this on the side of BCB
RT @CarrieMuskat: #Cubs mgr Quade met with Hendry, etc., & will sleep on some roster decisions
''"I always thought I was the most competitive person out there. I never thought I'd find anybody more competitive until I met him.'' Ryan Dempster talking about Ted Lilly
by Madison Cub Fan on Mar 22, 2011 3:03 PM CDT up reply actions
Jesus. If Jim Hendry isn't fired after this season
I’m really going to have to find a new team to root for.
"Oh Crap"
-Famous Last Words by General George Custer
I suppose there's no harm in giving him one more start.
Now, I’ll go grasp at more straws.
I hate to say this, but I'm going to try my hardest to reserve judgement on Quade until later in the season.
EVEN if he keeps Hill and Silva and Shark. Those decisions will not impact the success of the team nearly as much as the one key issue for this year – getting the most out of our veterans. Roster decisions about who the back up catcher or long-relief guy is pale mightily in camparison to that. His #1 job is getting the veterans to care and perform, and if he can do that, I really don’t care who the backup catcher is, even though I want Castillo (and Scales :) ).
by DisCUBbobulated on Mar 22, 2011 3:10 PM CDT reply actions 1 recs
Generally agree.
But there are two things you’re not considering:
- Max Ramirez can’t be sent to Iowa, which means he might be Casey McGehee Jr. Shark (whom I favor keeping at this point) won’t be the 12th pitcher. That will be somebody like Coleman or Mateo, at this point.
-
MaxRam as Casey McGehee Jr,
Not entirely accurate, but close enough. Roster spot utilization is something smart teams do. Is it something the Cubs value?
I agree partly
Keeping Hill or Silva may not be his choice, how much he plays them can be.
''"I always thought I was the most competitive person out there. I never thought I'd find anybody more competitive until I met him.'' Ryan Dempster talking about Ted Lilly
by Madison Cub Fan on Mar 22, 2011 3:13 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
75 and sunny here in Bloomington, IN!
Feel free to mention that to the Cubs if they haven’t signed all the papers for Mesa, Al
"Baseball is almost the only orderly thing in a very unorderly world. If you get three strikes, even the best lawyer in the world can't get you off." ~ Bill Veeck
Now that brings back
a vivid of memory of IU in 1968…a blanket, a bottle of wine, beautiful spring weather, and a ravishing beauty. And shortly afterwards, off to war.
Dempster
Did he put on some muscle? He looks HUGE. He usually looks so diminutive on the mound. today he looks like he has put on some muscle.
I take it the Cubs audio feed isn't working.
The Dodgers feed is being streamed on the Cubs too.
Baseball is back!!
I logged out and logged back into gameday, now it's working
Very weird.
Baseball is back!!
by cowsarecool220 on Mar 22, 2011 3:33 PM CDT up reply actions
Kevin Slowey
Has anyone heard what the Twins are asking for him? they just named Baker their fifth starter. Interesting no. 5 possibility for the right price.
You can get more with a kind word and a gun than you can with a kind word alone. - Al Capone
I don't think they have any $$ at all.
Wouldn’t the Cubs have just kept Gorz if they did?
Baseball is back!!
by cowsarecool220 on Mar 22, 2011 3:35 PM CDT up reply actions
I don't think
he’d be any better than Cashner anyway.
by Josh Timmers on Mar 22, 2011 3:36 PM CDT up reply actions
He cleared waivers and the Tribe sent him to AAA.
Baseball is back!!
by cowsarecool220 on Mar 22, 2011 3:37 PM CDT up reply actions
Oh. Thanks.
I only knew that he was on waivers.
We could've snagged him
but we have so many quality relievers and KH on the 40 man to bring him in.
Was he worth snagging?
I don’t know much about him.
I just read this about him, el.
http://www.ohio.com/sports/indians/118223654.html
"I think part of a best friend's job should be to immediately clear your computer history if you die." - Anonymous
Neither do I
but I doubt he deserves a 40 Man spot less than six of the guys we have
Based on that article ...
it sounds like Lewis isn’t exactly a power pitcher. It’s possible the Cubs didn’t want another relatively soft-tossing righty to join with Berg and Stevens.
I agree...
sounds like he was given the chance, but, didn’t take advantage of it. More work needed.
"I think part of a best friend's job should be to immediately clear your computer history if you die." - Anonymous
Koyie Hill Sucks
"It was a perfect situation for the Brewers," Hill said. "They had a guy up there at the plate [in Counsell] who takes a lot of pride in what he does and he practices those situations, so when it does come up, he gets the bunt down to the right side of the field. They have the perfect guy on first base [in Gomez], who is one of the fastest guys in the league, and they had one of the worst fundamental teams on the field, so it was a perfect situation for them."
I see why you did that?
"It was a perfect situation for the Brewers," Hill said. "They had a guy up there at the plate [in Counsell] who takes a lot of pride in what he does and he practices those situations, so when it does come up, he gets the bunt down to the right side of the field. They have the perfect guy on first base [in Gomez], who is one of the fastest guys in the league, and they had one of the worst fundamental teams on the field, so it was a perfect situation for them."
by louslovechild on Mar 22, 2011 3:39 PM CDT up reply actions
Personally, I'm more concerned about 2nd base.
The defense, in particular.
Baseball is back!!
by cowsarecool220 on Mar 22, 2011 3:40 PM CDT up reply actions
Barney should play. If we are going young, why not?
DeWitt has options.
"It was a perfect situation for the Brewers," Hill said. "They had a guy up there at the plate [in Counsell] who takes a lot of pride in what he does and he practices those situations, so when it does come up, he gets the bunt down to the right side of the field. They have the perfect guy on first base [in Gomez], who is one of the fastest guys in the league, and they had one of the worst fundamental teams on the field, so it was a perfect situation for them."
by louslovechild on Mar 22, 2011 3:40 PM CDT up reply actions
Double plays concern me greatly.
Yes, I’d try Barney quite a bit.
Baseball is back!!
by cowsarecool220 on Mar 22, 2011 3:42 PM CDT up reply actions
yabbut
DeWitt >>> KH
Neither is good. I’m getting swayed on keeping Moore, but there is no good reason to retain KH.
I like that too.
He can play multiple positions and he has had a great spring. He also has all his fingers
"It was a perfect situation for the Brewers," Hill said. "They had a guy up there at the plate [in Counsell] who takes a lot of pride in what he does and he practices those situations, so when it does come up, he gets the bunt down to the right side of the field. They have the perfect guy on first base [in Gomez], who is one of the fastest guys in the league, and they had one of the worst fundamental teams on the field, so it was a perfect situation for them."
by louslovechild on Mar 22, 2011 3:48 PM CDT up reply actions
in fairness...
koyie still has all of his…surgically manipulated to form around a baseball…but they are all there…
"There had to be a place where the game could be fun again….that place is called Wrigley Field"---Andre Dawson
True
My apologies.
"It was a perfect situation for the Brewers," Hill said. "They had a guy up there at the plate [in Counsell] who takes a lot of pride in what he does and he practices those situations, so when it does come up, he gets the bunt down to the right side of the field. They have the perfect guy on first base [in Gomez], who is one of the fastest guys in the league, and they had one of the worst fundamental teams on the field, so it was a perfect situation for them."
by louslovechild on Mar 22, 2011 4:00 PM CDT up reply actions
though i have read
that he will have them amputated when his playing days are over…
"There had to be a place where the game could be fun again….that place is called Wrigley Field"---Andre Dawson
May help him to have them
as a coach. I’m jus’ sayin’.
Anyone watching the game - was Colvin getting gunned down at home..
A good throw, or bad baserunning?
by DisCUBbobulated on Mar 22, 2011 3:49 PM CDT reply actions
Bonds didn't know they were steroids.
He thought they were flax seed oil.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110322/ap_on_sp_ba_ne/bbo_bonds_trial
Gee, he must have also sent $$$ to that bank in Nigeria.
Baseball is back!!
by cowsarecool220 on Mar 22, 2011 3:53 PM CDT up reply actions
Dude, that's not cool.
The King of Nigeria was in a tough spot. It’s not like Bonds was strapped for cash.
He might be, I'd love to know
how much $$$ he gave to that trainer not testify and go to jail instead.
Baseball is back!!
by cowsarecool220 on Mar 22, 2011 3:56 PM CDT up reply actions
Dear Friend,
My company haz com into money due to death of someone with your last name. Please contact me with your bank account numbers to clame your share.
Sincerally Joeseph Smith
Man, you sound like the guy from the Irish Lottery.
Once they receive my security deposit of $10,000 (third attempt now… bank shows it’s transferred, but I guess things are messed up in Europe due to the economy. I’m sure it’’ come through any day now), I’ll send my info your way, Joeseph.
Dear Friend,
It appeers there is a problem with bank transfer. I will needs you to send casheers check to me. Informations inclozed.
Thank You Dear Friend.
Joeseph Smith
Dear Friend
Where is it you are keeping yore gold bullyun? And what is the ay I can let myself in?
Joseph Smith
I wish my email didn't filter them out anymore.
I would have loved to paste that in here earlier. lol
Um, what the hell?
Please tell me you’re not excusing his steroid use.
It was flax seed oil
to him. Cream and clear flax seed oil.
I'll have to go get some of that stuff.
I’ve been wanting to make my head grow six hat sizes for a while now.
You don't have to hate him.
But he was the best all-around player you ever saw because he cheated. Period. End of sentence.
He was also the best all around player I saw before he cheated.
"It was a perfect situation for the Brewers," Hill said. "They had a guy up there at the plate [in Counsell] who takes a lot of pride in what he does and he practices those situations, so when it does come up, he gets the bunt down to the right side of the field. They have the perfect guy on first base [in Gomez], who is one of the fastest guys in the league, and they had one of the worst fundamental teams on the field, so it was a perfect situation for them."
by louslovechild on Mar 22, 2011 4:02 PM CDT up reply actions
Really?
I would have gone with Ken Griffey Jr.
comes down to style when it comes to those two really.
You can go with either.
"What do you think, I just dunked my whole career?" Jordan asked Henderson after making a 3.
"You’ve got to miss eventually," Henderson told him.
"That’s what Cleveland said," replied Jordan
Griffey played a tougher position.
He also had a shorter stretch as a dominant player.
Of course, Bond’s stretch was prolonged by (ahem) flaxseed oil.
The rise of Griffey, i thought, corresponded with Bonds beginning to use.
The Pirates years and early Giants years were still non-roid Bonds correct?
"It was a perfect situation for the Brewers," Hill said. "They had a guy up there at the plate [in Counsell] who takes a lot of pride in what he does and he practices those situations, so when it does come up, he gets the bunt down to the right side of the field. They have the perfect guy on first base [in Gomez], who is one of the fastest guys in the league, and they had one of the worst fundamental teams on the field, so it was a perfect situation for them."
by louslovechild on Mar 22, 2011 4:11 PM CDT up reply actions
well, up until 1999
supposedly.
"What do you think, I just dunked my whole career?" Jordan asked Henderson after making a 3.
"You’ve got to miss eventually," Henderson told him.
"That’s what Cleveland said," replied Jordan
No...
Bonds seen the publicity that Sosa and Big Mac were getting and it bothered him. I have nothing against players that used…made baseball fun to watch again. ’98 was great and we ALL were watching. Cheat or not…loved every minute of it.
"I think part of a best friend's job should be to immediately clear your computer history if you die." - Anonymous
Actually, that's not right.
Griffey was money in the ‘90s and even in his first year in Cincinnati. About the time he started getting hurt all the time was when flaxseed oil increased Bonds’ headsize.
I thought that wrist injury in Seattle was when Griffey went downhill
Around the time he starred in that baseball movie about the kid who takes over the Twins. One of my favorites, but total crap.
"It was a perfect situation for the Brewers," Hill said. "They had a guy up there at the plate [in Counsell] who takes a lot of pride in what he does and he practices those situations, so when it does come up, he gets the bunt down to the right side of the field. They have the perfect guy on first base [in Gomez], who is one of the fastest guys in the league, and they had one of the worst fundamental teams on the field, so it was a perfect situation for them."
by louslovechild on Mar 22, 2011 4:15 PM CDT up reply actions
That's when some of the injuries started.
But Griffey actually was quite good in his first year in Cincy. Things really went off the rails after that.
Not that I blame you,
it’s just said to read that…
"What do you think, I just dunked my whole career?" Jordan asked Henderson after making a 3.
"You’ve got to miss eventually," Henderson told him.
"That’s what Cleveland said," replied Jordan
I don't think of it as sad.
It was just a very wide spread part of the game at the time. So I’m sure the competition was still pretty even among all the players.
No, it's very sad, Husker.
You’re essentially saying that breaking federal law and lying about it to gain an advantage is fine if everybody as long as everybody does it.
Maybe that’s a case for not throwing out Bonds’ numbers. But we can’t just ignore PED use in the steroid era.
No, don't ignore it...
just accept that it happened and view the accomplishments of the players in that era through that lens.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Mar 22, 2011 4:22 PM CDT up reply actions
That's right.
But don’t shrug it off as “everybody cheats so it was cool.”
So that means I think it's cool?
that’s quite a leap.
I certainly don’t care if people’s feelings are hurt because baseball records were broken by superior players.
So you're saying ...
that everybody did it, so you don’t care about it?
I strongly disagree with that. And when I said you said it was ‘cool’ — I meant it in the sense that you were fine with it, not that you were endorsing it.
Who's saying that? I don't think anyone is saying that.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Mar 22, 2011 4:23 PM CDT up reply actions
Husker said he didn't care about it.
And that’s what started the thread.
I can't speak for him, but I took that to mean...
that given the apparent proliferate use throughout baseball he wasn’t going to single out Bonds with hatred for using PEDs.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Mar 22, 2011 4:28 PM CDT up reply actions
I take a Leno attitude toward cheaters
If you’re busted for it, you’re joke fodder.
I took it to mean ...
that he wasn’t going to single Bonds out (which is fair) and that he didn’t care about steroid use in that era (which is appalling, IMO).
That's what you were getting at?
If so, we can close the book on this one.
I just have
an issue when guys like Bonds and Mcgwire are called out as cheaters. I don’t really see it that way.
I think there are way too many cheaters in the history of this game to single anyone out. This game has always been flawed.
They were cheaters.
The fact that they had company doesn’t change matters.
by elgato on Mar 22, 2011 4:35 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
True
I just don’t see why Bonds has to be the face of all the drug users?
Why not Fergie, or Molitor, or Schmidt, or McGwire, or one of thousands of others?
Biggest fish.
The story goes that he started using after the 1998 home run chase because he felt he was better than McGwire and Sosa. If he felt that way, and he used steroids to be the best, he can’t complain about the excess attention he received for juicing.
That's a horribly cynical attitude.
You really think Greg Maddux used? Tom Glavine?
If you want to say MOST players used some sort of PEDs, I’d agree with that. But even if 99.9 percent used, those players — Bonds included — did a great disservice to the players from previous eras.
And it also manipulated us as fans. They sold us a line of bullsh*t, and I’ll never forgive the likes of Bonds, McGwire, Sosa, et. al for it.
A great disservice?
To the players from previous eras? All those guys from previous eras found ways to cheat as well. This game has never been what some people think it was.
Except in rare cases ...
those players weren’t breaking federal law to gain an advantage. Stealing signs and scuffing baseballs is MUCH different than ingesting illegal substances to get bigger and stronger.
Amphetamines?
And I’m pretty sure steroids have been around since like the 40’s or 50’s. I’m guessing pro athletes started using them around that time.
That is a fair point.
But it’s my understanding that amphetamines are essentially uppers — they don’t make you bigger and stronger.
C'mon, el...
you mean to tell me you didn’t think something was up with those guys? As far as a disservice to the players of other eras…I don’t buy into that either. Who knows what went on then? Nothing can get by anyone today with the advanced testing and whatnot. They could cheat AND get away with it back in the day. Did they? I don’t know, but, if they did, big deal. Steroids helped players hit home runs. So do the little league stadiums they play in nowadays…the better equipment – like bats and balls. It’s evolution and the Steroids Era was part of it. It was epic.
The only thing I disliked about the Steroid Era were the guys that did do it and denied it. Other than that, I loved every tape measured home run hit during it.
"I think part of a best friend's job should be to immediately clear your computer history if you die." - Anonymous
Ed, come on.
They were breaking the law.
And no, I don’t think Maddux used, and I doubt Glavine did. And they’re not alone.
This will be an arguement that will go on for years...
…eventually they’ll have to put one of these “users” in the HoF and that’ll open the door to everyone else. It didn’t hurt the game…some say it saved it.
"I think part of a best friend's job should be to immediately clear your computer history if you die." - Anonymous
Evolution, el...
it is what it is. It’ll lead to something else down the road. I, for one, can’t cast bad judgement on something I found totally entertaining even when I knew there was something wrong going on with it. That’s why baseball waited so long to jump on it…it was selling tickets again.
"I think part of a best friend's job should be to immediately clear your computer history if you die." - Anonymous
Totally
"I think part of a best friend's job should be to immediately clear your computer history if you die." - Anonymous
I regret the "steroid era".
And we all should for one reason or another.
Added to Schedule III of the CSA in 1990. Banned in MLB in 1991. Never tested for until 2001. Why eleven years? Convenient that these guys we villify now helped the league recover and actuallt set records in revenue.
Now they’re shamed. They deserve it, but not just them.
400-400
great defense and high baseball IQ, dude was the truth.
"What do you think, I just dunked my whole career?" Jordan asked Henderson after making a 3.
"You’ve got to miss eventually," Henderson told him.
"That’s what Cleveland said," replied Jordan
No question.
Too bad he did what he did from 1999 on. He would have been in the Hall regardless.
Everyone did it as far as i'm concerned.
Hell, people have been finding ways to cheat at this game since it was created. I can’t exactly think of a time when this game was ever clean.
Definitely one of the all time jerks of MLB.
On the other hand, Sosa was one of the all time fakes of MLB.
Baseball is back!!
by cowsarecool220 on Mar 22, 2011 4:00 PM CDT up reply actions
AND...
entertained billions while doing it. Loved it.
"I think part of a best friend's job should be to immediately clear your computer history if you die." - Anonymous
Smoke and mirrors can be entertaining.
It shouldn’t be honored.
OK
lets take Fergie out of the Hall, and remove his number from the foul pole.
Same goes for Molior and Schmidt, and countless others right?
Fergie?
His drug use didn’t aid his performance, as far as I know.
And what did Schmidt do?
So...
breaking the law with steriods matters to you, but doing it with cocaine does’nt?
And I have no problem believing cocaine improves your senses quite a bit. Could that be used to improve you’re game…..I think it could.
Oh, come on.
You’re not dumb enough to not get the distinction, Husker. We’re talking about drug use that helped players’ careers, not recreational use.
And is cocaine commonly referred to as a ‘performance enhancing drug’? I don’t believe that it is. With reason.
Ok fine
back to Greenies then. VERY wide spread use by many players. Should they be punished like Bonds and the rest?
Addressed that earlier.
There’s a difference between drugs that make you bigger and stronger and drugs that make you more alert.
Hair-splitting, maybe? But we know that using greenies didn’t do a number on the record books. So it is an important distinction.
How do you know?
You can’t tell me Greenies had no impact on the record books. There is now way to say if they did or didn’t. Just like it hasn’t been proven that steroids can really make someone hit a ball
THAT much farther.
Well, answer me this:
Why is there a Steroid Era and not a Greenies Era?
Because
sports writers and people like you decided to get really self righteous, and pretend that this game used to be perfect.
Also because news about steroids was more wide spread because of the internet and new media. People are happy calling out today’s players, but when asked to look back at their childhood heros for their cheating, they refuse.
Dude.
I’m 30. Sammy Sosa WAS one of my childhood heroes — albeit in my teen years.
I think
you know what I meant. It’s clear that a lot of players have cheated at this game. But the only ones who get kept from the Hall of Fame are recent players? It doesn’t make any sense.
If Sosa or McGwire aren’t allowed in, then Schmidt, Fergie, and many more should be questioned and kicked out..
That's ridiculous.
Sammy Sosa doesn’t have the numbers for the Hall without PEDs. Fergie Jenkins’ cocaine use almost certainly had nothing to do with him being a great pitcher.
I’m less familiar with the details of Schmidt, so I’m not going to comment. But age-old records didn’t get broken year after year until the Steroid Era (you can look it up). So saying players who used and benefited from PEDs should be held to a different standard than those who played when greenies were present is not inconsistent.
And don’t trot out the old-players-would-have-used-steroids-had-they-been-around argument. Talk about a worthless hypothetical.
Wasn't
you’re point earlier that the players broke the law? I guess it’s ok if they do it back in the 70’s and 80’s, as long as their not breaking you’re precious records. lol
And you have no proof that Sosa wouldn’t have had similar numbers without PEDs. You don’t even have any proof that PEDs actually enhance the ability to hit home runs THAT much at all.
A lot of things make a good baseball player, not just size and strength. Sosa was a good player, with or without PEDs.
use the "chain link" icon and paste the URL in the pop up box
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Mar 22, 2011 4:52 PM CDT up reply actions
link still not sorking for me
you can search it on google, new york times article, Mike Schmidt an open book on Greenies.
But they cheated right?!!!!
So who cares about their accomplishments. That’s what you’re saying right?
If they have Hall of Fame worthy numbers...
they most certainly should.
"I think part of a best friend's job should be to immediately clear your computer history if you die." - Anonymous
sigh
"I think part of a best friend's job should be to immediately clear your computer history if you die." - Anonymous
I don't honor cheaters.
And yes, some guys are in the hall already who cheated, but I wouldn’t have put them there.
One of those never ending arguements, el...
you think it’s a thumbing of the nose to the players of yesteryear like Aaron, Mays, Banks and such…and I think that if they knew what it was and where to get it, they’d have done the same. They’re “legends” NOT angels.
Movin’ on…
"I think part of a best friend's job should be to immediately clear your computer history if you die." - Anonymous
In 1997 ...
the last year before it’s commonly believed Sosa used, he had an OPS of .779. He had never had an OPS of more than .888.
For the next four seasons, he never had an OPS below 1.000.
He was an All-Star pre-1998. He was breaking decades-old records in the following seasons.
He was a good player before steroids. Nothing more.
Second ballplayer that I fell in love with.
Loved watching him play.
"What do you think, I just dunked my whole career?" Jordan asked Henderson after making a 3.
"You’ve got to miss eventually," Henderson told him.
"That’s what Cleveland said," replied Jordan
I believe this is the first time Geo's
played on back to back days. Must be getting close to opening day!
Baseball is back!!
Dempster 3 IP 23 pitches.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Mar 22, 2011 4:07 PM CDT reply actions
He's looking pretty beastly this spring.
I want to see more of this during the regular season.
and he just put up a 4 pitch inning.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Mar 22, 2011 4:16 PM CDT up reply actions
It must be "swing at the first pitch" day.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Mar 22, 2011 4:19 PM CDT up reply actions
Actally, now that I think about it....
I don’t think GameDay lists all the pitches during ST…they just put up the balls that get put in play.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Mar 22, 2011 4:29 PM CDT up reply actions
Game Over.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Mar 22, 2011 4:30 PM CDT up reply actions
Bring in Berg and KH
Don’t use MaxRam, as we don’t want to showcase him be4 sneaking him through waivers.
Not even a frog or nothin'?
"I think part of a best friend's job should be to immediately clear your computer history if you die." - Anonymous
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