Cubs 6, Rangers 5: So Long, Carlos Silva, And Thanks For Nothing
SURPRISE, Arizona -- On October 4, 2008, the Dodgers beat the Cubs 3-1 and swept their NLDS, and one of the results of that sweep, the second straight by the Cubs in the Division Series was the team mantra (whoever you want to blame for this, it really doesn't matter now): "We've got to get more lefthanded."
The eventual result of that, we don't have to go through as we have hashed and rehashed hundreds of times on this site, but the era that created ended today, neither with the proverbial bang nor whimper, but whining by Carlos Silva, who wouldn't do what was best for the team and possibly accept an assignment to Iowa after Andrew Cashner was named the fifth starter. Here are a few of the comments made by Silva, none of which are going to endear him to any team that might be interested in trying him out as a starter now that the Cubs have to pick up all of his remaining salary. (There was some talk at Surprise today that the Rangers are seeking a starter -- maybe they'd give him a shot, since they'd only be on the hook for the MLB minmum.)
It's great that the Cubs chose Cashner. He was a good reliever and could help the bullpen, but clearly his future was and is as a starter. The Cubs will have to monitor his innings, but that may be doable since the first four starters on the staff could all have 200-inning seasons, which would reduce the pressure on the bullpen. This cubs.com article indicates that Mike Quade thinks Jeff Samardzija, James Russell and Marcos Mateo are all going to be expected to be able to have 40-pitch, two-plus-inning outings. Let's hope they can all do that.
The final lesson of the Milton Bradley signing and its aftermath, which gave us Silva (who at least contributed half a decent season), to GM Jim Hendry is this: don't do anything like this ever again, something that backs the team into a corner and costs many millions of dollars for no production. This was one of Hendry's biggest failures, and he has to know he can't do it again. Ever.
Regarding today's game, a come-from-behind 6-5 win over the Rangers, the Cubs' fourth win in a row, I really liked what I saw from Cashner today in front of 10,337, a crowd that sounded about 2/3 Cubs fans. Cashner had a shaky first inning in which he made a fielding error and allowed five hits, including a three-run homer to Mitch Moreland.
And then he settled down and threw four more excellent frames, giving up just one hit, a double in the second to Endy Chavez. That's a real credit to him. He threw 72 pitches, 49 for strikes, and that was his longest outing of the spring so far. I was really, really impressed by his poise and ability to recover from an awful inning. Cashner will likely stay behind on Thursday to stay on schedule by throwing in a minor league game to prepare for his first regular season start, probably Tuesday, April 5 vs. the Diamondbacks.
The Cubs showed some offense early; Reed Johnson doubled and scored in the first, then hit a sac fly in the second and also made one of his patented running-into-the-wall catches in the eighth inning. Geovany Soto had a pair of hits; Marlon Byrd tripled in a run, and Koyie Hill was spared another 0-fer when Jae-Hoon Ha was caught stealing to end the top of the 9th. And, the Cubs bullpen was outstanding today, allowing only a ninth-inning single to Chris Davis in four innings.
So things begin just begin, to turn around. A good decision was made today. Let's hope that makes this pitching staff into one of the dominant ones in the National League. Tomorrow, Ryan Dempster faces the Rockies in his final tune-up before Opening Day. The Rockies, who will be the opponent tomorrow in Mesa, play tonight and have not announced their starter yet.
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Thanks for nothing...
…seems a little harsh. Remember how unstoppable he was during the first half last year? That was enjoyable to watch
Maybe.
He just never seemed real happy to be here.
Check out Chicago sports coverage at SB Nation Chicago
Watch your atttitude.
Everyone here has an opinion. Yours differs from mine (and troutfishin’s). My opinion is not “wrong”.
Check out Chicago sports coverage at SB Nation Chicago
So what happens if your opinion is wrong?
I didn't believe it last August, but it turns out that love survives.
State high point count: 3/50
If you are grouchy, irritable, or just plain mean, there will be a $10 charge for putting up with you.
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Mar 27, 2011 11:20 AM CDT via mobile up reply actions
Then let me explain it to you.
Silva finished off last year poorly, and he showed up to camp this year out of shape and, as a result, he wasn’t ready to pitch. His ERA this spring proves that, it was high even by Cubs standards.
The Cubs offered him a choice of either going to Iowa as a AAA player or becoming a relief pitcher out of the bullpen. Silva, however, refused these and insisted on starting.
At which point, management got rid of him. You can’t expect him to be both that stubborn and popular in the clubhouse at the same time, which is probably how Al drew his conclusions.
Show me proof that Silva is popular in the clubhouse, and you will convince me you’re right. That being said, I have yet to see anything that refutes Al’s point.
I didn't believe it last August, but it turns out that love survives.
State high point count: 3/50
If you are grouchy, irritable, or just plain mean, there will be a $10 charge for putting up with you.
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Mar 27, 2011 11:34 AM CDT via mobile up reply actions 4 recs
And by extension,
If his teammates don’t like him, he’s probably not very happy. That’s usually how these things work.
I didn't believe it last August, but it turns out that love survives.
State high point count: 3/50
If you are grouchy, irritable, or just plain mean, there will be a $10 charge for putting up with you.
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Mar 27, 2011 11:37 AM CDT via mobile up reply actions
No no no..
I’ve never seen anything that says his teammates think he’s a bad guy. YOU need to prove otherwise. You can’t.
There is a well earned repuation
he has of being a bad teammate.
Here is one example.
""Maybe Chief has to go and grab somebody from his neck and throw him into the wall and something’s going to change," he said, speaking of himself. “I’m very close to doing that, so write that down.”" -C. Silva.
He’s an idiot.
"What do you think, I just dunked my whole career?" Jordan asked Henderson after making a 3.
"You’ve got to miss eventually," Henderson told him.
"That’s what Cleveland said," replied Jordan
considering that he got punchy with these Cubs
it’s relevant in showing how much of a bad teammate he has been and will continue to be.
"What do you think, I just dunked my whole career?" Jordan asked Henderson after making a 3.
"You’ve got to miss eventually," Henderson told him.
"That’s what Cleveland said," replied Jordan
I haven't seen
any comments from his actual teammates. So I can’t assume anything about his character.
Go ahead and do so if it makes you feel better.
Sure you can
especially after they get into a fight in the dugout after he yells at them for being bad at baseball.
But by all means, stick your head in the sand if it makes you feel better.
"What do you think, I just dunked my whole career?" Jordan asked Henderson after making a 3.
"You’ve got to miss eventually," Henderson told him.
"That’s what Cleveland said," replied Jordan
It's pretty clear
that was just an argument, and it got a little heated. My brothers and I used to do that too. Doesn’t mean any of us are bad people.
It's pretty clear
that it was spring training and it was unwarranted and that he has no brothers on this team.
Argument with brothers ≠ Carlos Silva punching Aramis Ramirez.
"What do you think, I just dunked my whole career?" Jordan asked Henderson after making a 3.
"You’ve got to miss eventually," Henderson told him.
"That’s what Cleveland said," replied Jordan
Even if it was an argument,
How do you know his teammates weren’t bothered by it and still liked him afterward?
I have to think they rallied around Aramis Ramirez, for two reasons. One, he has been on the team a lot longer than Silva, and two, the players know him better.
Show me one concrete piece of proof that his teammates enjoyed playing with him.
I didn't believe it last August, but it turns out that love survives.
State high point count: 3/50
If you are grouchy, irritable, or just plain mean, there will be a $10 charge for putting up with you.
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Mar 27, 2011 12:44 PM CDT up reply actions
pretty much what VCF said
and uh, blows were exchanged.
"What do you think, I just dunked my whole career?" Jordan asked Henderson after making a 3.
"You’ve got to miss eventually," Henderson told him.
"That’s what Cleveland said," replied Jordan
Aramis wanting to beat him up in a Spring Training game.
"What do you think, I just dunked my whole career?" Jordan asked Henderson after making a 3.
"You’ve got to miss eventually," Henderson told him.
"That’s what Cleveland said," replied Jordan
You have to know,
He’s just going to say “it was a heated argument” and ask for more proof.
I didn't believe it last August, but it turns out that love survives.
State high point count: 3/50
If you are grouchy, irritable, or just plain mean, there will be a $10 charge for putting up with you.
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Mar 27, 2011 12:51 PM CDT up reply actions
You show me first.
Is it really that hard to find anything?
MRubio provided links, and you ignored them because (heaven forbid!) they were from a few years ago.
I didn't believe it last August, but it turns out that love survives.
State high point count: 3/50
If you are grouchy, irritable, or just plain mean, there will be a $10 charge for putting up with you.
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Mar 27, 2011 12:50 PM CDT up reply actions
it's like saying Pujols isn't good
He put up those numbers a year ago.
"What do you think, I just dunked my whole career?" Jordan asked Henderson after making a 3.
"You’ve got to miss eventually," Henderson told him.
"That’s what Cleveland said," replied Jordan
It's not
my responsibility to prove anything. You’re making claims without any evidence. So once again, YOU need to prove something.
we have.
it’s your turn to disprove it.
"What do you think, I just dunked my whole career?" Jordan asked Henderson after making a 3.
"You’ve got to miss eventually," Henderson told him.
"That’s what Cleveland said," replied Jordan
Aramis Ramirez wanting to beat him up in ST.
Your turn now.
I didn't believe it last August, but it turns out that love survives.
State high point count: 3/50
If you are grouchy, irritable, or just plain mean, there will be a $10 charge for putting up with you.
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Mar 27, 2011 12:56 PM CDT up reply actions
Show me, with a link,
That Silva was a good teammate.
I didn't believe it last August, but it turns out that love survives.
State high point count: 3/50
If you are grouchy, irritable, or just plain mean, there will be a $10 charge for putting up with you.
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Mar 27, 2011 12:57 PM CDT up reply actions
Okay.
Now I know you’re saying this just to be argumentative.
I didn't believe it last August, but it turns out that love survives.
State high point count: 3/50
If you are grouchy, irritable, or just plain mean, there will be a $10 charge for putting up with you.
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Mar 27, 2011 1:00 PM CDT up reply actions
These issues stem from the Mariners
http://www.ussmariner.com/2008/09/25/teammates-hate-ichiro-we-hate-teammates/
Cropped up before.
"What do you think, I just dunked my whole career?" Jordan asked Henderson after making a 3.
"You’ve got to miss eventually," Henderson told him.
"That’s what Cleveland said," replied Jordan
Seems the fans didn't like him much, either,
Based upon the comments there.
I didn't believe it last August, but it turns out that love survives.
State high point count: 3/50
If you are grouchy, irritable, or just plain mean, there will be a $10 charge for putting up with you.
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Mar 27, 2011 1:03 PM CDT up reply actions
You still haven't shown us a link
Stating his teammates like him.
I can wait. I’ll wait as long as I have to. Also, if you fire off a “show proof” to me, I’ll know you’re just BS’ing with MRubio and myself since you have no proof whatsoever.
I didn't believe it last August, but it turns out that love survives.
State high point count: 3/50
If you are grouchy, irritable, or just plain mean, there will be a $10 charge for putting up with you.
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Mar 27, 2011 1:12 PM CDT up reply actions
I don't need proof.
I’m not making any claims. YOU need proof because you’re making an accusation that Silva is not a good guy.
PROVE IT.
I know you can’t. So don’t bother responding.
Actually, I can, and the remarks come from Mike Quade himself.
That one, you can’t refute.
I didn't believe it last August, but it turns out that love survives.
State high point count: 3/50
If you are grouchy, irritable, or just plain mean, there will be a $10 charge for putting up with you.
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Mar 27, 2011 2:26 PM CDT up reply actions
Also,
“People need to know, whether he was upset with Riggs or whatever, everyone needs to know that this was my call,” Quade said. "It wasn’t Jim Hendry’s. If [Silva wants] to be irritated with somebody, this is on me, OK. It was my decision, complete and totally.
“I was really disappointed when I heard [Silva’s comments]. First of all, he’s dead f—-ing wrong, OK, about my pitching coach. And I have no f—-ing time for that.”
Quade continued to admonish the former Cubs pitcher.
“Respect is a two-way street,” he said. “I don’t want to hear anything about respect. If you ain’t giving it, you ain’t getting it.”
From yesterday’s incident with Silva.
I didn't believe it last August, but it turns out that love survives.
State high point count: 3/50
If you are grouchy, irritable, or just plain mean, there will be a $10 charge for putting up with you.
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Mar 27, 2011 2:27 PM CDT up reply actions
Show me proof his teammates liked him.
I think Aramis’ reaction to him speaks for itself.
SHOW US PROOF
I didn't believe it last August, but it turns out that love survives.
State high point count: 3/50
If you are grouchy, irritable, or just plain mean, there will be a $10 charge for putting up with you.
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Mar 27, 2011 12:54 PM CDT up reply actions
Aramis Ramirez wanting to beat him up during ST.
Your turn now.
Prove your point.
I didn't believe it last August, but it turns out that love survives.
State high point count: 3/50
If you are grouchy, irritable, or just plain mean, there will be a $10 charge for putting up with you.
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Mar 27, 2011 12:56 PM CDT up reply actions
So, by your logic,
MRubio and I should enjoy chatting with you just an hour from now.
I didn't believe it last August, but it turns out that love survives.
State high point count: 3/50
If you are grouchy, irritable, or just plain mean, there will be a $10 charge for putting up with you.
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Mar 27, 2011 12:54 PM CDT up reply actions
So that brawl he incited in the dugout a few weeks ago doesn't count?
If that’s not proof for you, what is?
I didn't believe it last August, but it turns out that love survives.
State high point count: 3/50
If you are grouchy, irritable, or just plain mean, there will be a $10 charge for putting up with you.
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Mar 27, 2011 12:38 PM CDT up reply actions
I read that article
and it certainly didn’t leave me with a bad opinion of Silva. It was a player who was calling out his teammates for selfish play. It’s called clubhouse leadership.
If a quality pitching start is 3 runs and 6 innings, then a quality hitting day is 1 for 4.
""Maybe Chief has to go and grab somebody from his neck and throw him into the wall and something’s going to change," he said, speaking of himself. "I’m very close to doing that, so write that down."" -C. Silva.
I don’t want my clubhouse leaders to choke anyone.
"What do you think, I just dunked my whole career?" Jordan asked Henderson after making a 3.
"You’ve got to miss eventually," Henderson told him.
"That’s what Cleveland said," replied Jordan
haha
Once again. That’s way in the past, and I’m sure that was said in the heat of the moment. So take that statement with a grain of salt.
Not really
it’s three years ago, and it happened again. A few weeks ago.
He hasn’t changed.
"What do you think, I just dunked my whole career?" Jordan asked Henderson after making a 3.
"You’ve got to miss eventually," Henderson told him.
"That’s what Cleveland said," replied Jordan
To anyone reading this,
Husker_1 has no point. This is entertainment.
I didn't believe it last August, but it turns out that love survives.
State high point count: 3/50
If you are grouchy, irritable, or just plain mean, there will be a $10 charge for putting up with you.
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Mar 27, 2011 12:49 PM CDT up reply actions
Oh I love it.
The stupid entertain me.
"What do you think, I just dunked my whole career?" Jordan asked Henderson after making a 3.
"You’ve got to miss eventually," Henderson told him.
"That’s what Cleveland said," replied Jordan
Not really
I’ve provided my tangible proof.
All you come back with is prove it.
"What do you think, I just dunked my whole career?" Jordan asked Henderson after making a 3.
"You’ve got to miss eventually," Henderson told him.
"That’s what Cleveland said," replied Jordan
Tell me,
Would you still be saying these things if no one else was here to read them or if people didn’t care enough to reply to you about them?
And if that happened, would you start trumpeting these dumb things around in a different thread?
I didn't believe it last August, but it turns out that love survives.
State high point count: 3/50
If you are grouchy, irritable, or just plain mean, there will be a $10 charge for putting up with you.
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Mar 27, 2011 12:55 PM CDT up reply actions
And when we ask you for proof,
All you do is tell us we need proof.
Which essentially shows you’re just doing this to be argumentative.
I didn't believe it last August, but it turns out that love survives.
State high point count: 3/50
If you are grouchy, irritable, or just plain mean, there will be a $10 charge for putting up with you.
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Mar 27, 2011 1:05 PM CDT up reply actions
I thought this was established weeks ago
I always turn to the sports section first. The sports page records people's accomplishments; the front page has nothing but man's failures.
~Earl Warren
by lookingdeadred on Mar 28, 2011 7:51 AM CDT up reply actions
Silva never choked anyone
Tell me you never heard anyone overstate their reaction.
Do that again and I’ll kick your ass
I was ready to rip his head off
If you don’t learn to follow the rules, you’ll never leave this house again
If you haven’t ever heard a coach or teammate threaten a player or team, you’ve obviously never played above Tball.
If a quality pitching start is 3 runs and 6 innings, then a quality hitting day is 1 for 4.
what happened in the dugout this ST is secondary in my opinion
If the guy was pitching well and didn’t fall apart last year he would simply have been described as “feisty,” much the same Zambrano’s antics grow tiresome when he isn’t producing. I never saw anything that indicated teammates loved him or hated him, and thus I don’t think was a huge factor in this entire situation. The guy was pitching terrible for an extended period of time and deserved to be cut. The entire situation, as Al tried to communicate, is more an indictment of Hendry than Silva.
by BeltwayCubsFan on Mar 27, 2011 5:18 PM CDT up reply actions
I'm in agreement
Silva had to go. It’s just too bad that Hendry waited until he had no value.
If a quality pitching start is 3 runs and 6 innings, then a quality hitting day is 1 for 4.
I never had that impression last season
but a guy who starts the season 9-2 and replaces Milton Bradley deserves some thanks.
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either
by Doggie Stalker on Mar 26, 2011 9:30 PM CDT up reply actions
Well, that's not exactly right...
he made it so this team wasn’t out of the race by June 1st last year. He deserves recognition for that…after the AS Break tho, not so much.
"The trouble is not that players have sex the night before a game. It's that they stay out all night looking for it." - Casey Stengal
He saved us some of the money that we would have had to pay MB
At the time I thought he would never actually play for us and I STILL thought it was a good deal.
Thanks for nothing is wrong
The guy had a good frst half last year and was infinitely better for the club than Bradley ever was- you’re pandering to the masses with a headline like this.
"When they signed Fukudome, I knew they were trying to get me fired". - Ron Santo, January, 2008
I'll tell you why I did that.
You are absolutely right about the good first half and providing some value out of the Bradley contract. What I can’t take is the attitude he showed today. A professional wouldn’t do that. He would graciously admit defeat and say he’d do everything he could to get back to the major leagues, or at least be a competitor and try to show the Cubs they made the wrong decision.
Instead, he whined, which not only makes him look bad to Cubs fans and management, but to the fans and management of any other team that might be considering him. Who’d take him now?
Maybe it was a little over the top, and a snap judgment. But it’s not completely wrong, either.
Check out Chicago sports coverage at SB Nation Chicago
by Al Yellon on Mar 26, 2011 11:13 PM CDT up reply actions 3 recs
Bravo....
Well said Al!
"Chicago baseball fans, who are composites of scar tissue and mortifying memories..." - George F. Will
Avatar provided courtesy of AndrewJStone.
Agreed. SIlva's response was unprofessional
especially coming from someone with a guaranteed contract no matter where he pitches.
I also read in his words part of the ‘me first’ attitude the Cubs are trying to weed out of the clubhouse.
I have NO problem with that.
There are 108 beads in a Catholic rosary and there are 108 stitches in a baseball. Who says baseball isn't a religion?
Indeed
I thank Silva for his stellar first half of 2010 … but that’s an awful way to go out the door. He will not be missed, I think.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Mar 26, 2011 11:51 PM CDT up reply actions
Jeez you would think he went on a obscenity laced tirade and broke a cooler
He said the Cubs were not honest with him about process of choosing a 5th starter, he said Riggins did not handle the situation professionally. I have no clue if this is true or not and neither do you. Sure players are not supposed to say these thing to the press, but there is massive overreaction to call him “classless” and “unprofessional” . Unless I am missing some quotes I just don’t find what he said that horrible
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either
by Doggie Stalker on Mar 27, 2011 1:29 AM CDT up reply actions 8 recs
Silva
First off, these things are better left not being said to reporters. Yes, it hurts the Cubs ability to trade Silva, but for his own sake, a team that is up in the air on signing Silva if he’s released could ultimately say that they don’t need the baggage. The guy got into a fight at the start of spring training, he has a reputation as a bad clubhouse guy, and now he’s throwing jabs at the staff on his way out after getting released due to a truly horrific spring ON HIS PART. This isn’t likely to endear him to the other 29 ball clubs to whom he is marketing his services.
That aside, if the staff didn’t treat him well, then fine. Let this be a learning experience for Riggins and Quade. I really took issue with his “I shouldn’t have to prove myself” crap.
"I was like, ‘I don’t need to go there. I’m ready to go. I feel good and I’m ready to pitch.‘
Carlos, you’ve had a few poor seasons in a row, you had a miserable spring and you showed up perhaps in worse shape than last year. Don’t act like there aren’t issues.
Further, this made me laugh
“Say what you have to say and say it. Don’t say people are competing for a spot because it wasn’t true. Nobody was competing for a spot. They already had their rotation done. It was very clear.”
Here he is just plain wrong. His salary made him the odds on favorite to win a rotation spot, and had he had a decent spring, he would be heading North with the club. They didn’t want to eat his $11M salary.
by dmlichte on Mar 27, 2011 9:48 AM CDT up reply actions 5 recs
mentally, emotionally and physically Silva was not there this year
He was fired, or his contract was terminated for cause….it is that plain and simple.
Because MLB or professional sports is not a normal working environment he has a golden parachute of $2M and this year’s salary.
The only questions are A) Are their competing teams for him that have a similar player they might want to terminate (therefore trade bad contracts; i.e., NYY and Russell Martin, although Cubs would probably have to send the $5.5M from Mariners in that deal)
OR
a team waits for the waiver wire and signs Silva to a league minimum $400K and Cubs pay the difference
OR
Silva goes home
Piniella: "This is a tougher job than I thought it would be, I'm going to be honest with you."
Huh????
Truly, what is this??
The only questions are A) Are their competing teams for him that have a similar player they might want to terminate (therefore trade bad contracts; i.e., NYY and Russell Martin, although Cubs would probably have to send the $5.5M from Mariners in that deal)
"When they signed Fukudome, I knew they were trying to get me fired". - Ron Santo, January, 2008
Ivy Walls-ese.
I didn't believe it last August, but it turns out that love survives.
State high point count: 3/50
If you are grouchy, irritable, or just plain mean, there will be a $10 charge for putting up with you.
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Mar 27, 2011 11:28 AM CDT via mobile up reply actions
+1
I didn't believe it last August, but it turns out that love survives.
State high point count: 3/50
If you are grouchy, irritable, or just plain mean, there will be a $10 charge for putting up with you.
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Mar 27, 2011 11:40 AM CDT via mobile up reply actions
I think Silva's version of "dishonest about the competition" translates more as "I wasn't given the spot no matter how badly I pitched."
He came into ST out of shape, expecting the spot to be handed to him on a gold platter and got bombed. Write if you find work….
+1
I didn't believe it last August, but it turns out that love survives.
State high point count: 3/50
If you are grouchy, irritable, or just plain mean, there will be a $10 charge for putting up with you.
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Mar 27, 2011 6:13 AM CDT up reply actions
His response seems understandable given his recent good outing and the certainty other teams will give him a shot...
…from the moment the Cubs eat his contract. Sure, it would have been better for us if he’d kept his mouth shut, and gone north to Des Moines. But why would he do that under the circumstances? His relatively mild bridge-burning comments about Hendry and Riggins, combined with appropriate good wishes to Cashner, seem controlled and well thought out – almost as if he had talked it over with his agent before opening-up.
"Elder White! Look at the talent on those Cubs!" Harry Caray, KMOX Radio, 4/22/62
"And you have to wonder – What's the matter with Broglio?" Harry, KMOX, 5/24/64
The debate is still going to rage...
Did the Cubs make the best choice by promoting Cashner to starter over someone like Coleman?
I have to think Coleman would be best served as a long reliever/spot starter now, but you have to think he’s going to be a full-time starter within a few years.
I didn't believe it last August, but it turns out that love survives.
State high point count: 3/50
If you are grouchy, irritable, or just plain mean, there will be a $10 charge for putting up with you.
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Mar 26, 2011 7:31 PM CDT reply actions
I think Coleman is best served starting in Iowa.
Cashner’s future is in the rotation. Why not make it now?
Check out Chicago sports coverage at SB Nation Chicago
Right now is as good of a time as ever
I’m looking forward to Coleman, Cashner, Diamond, Wells, and Russell all in the rotation in the future. I know I’m looking further ahead than I need to and 2 of those guys may be somewhere else in a few years, but I like these younger players making the club look promising.
by alabamacubbie on Mar 26, 2011 7:54 PM CDT up reply actions
The only two that are apart of the 'future'
are Wells & Cashner.
Maybe next year is finally our year.
I believe that Russell and Coleman have just as much
of a shot as Wells and Cashner. I could see Wells and Cashner being a 1,2, but Coleman and Russell could be a 4 and 5 in the rotation. I admit Diamond is a little out there, but with the exception of Diamond I believe that these are guys are pretty good. Someone has to take the reigns when Demp and Z are gone.
by alabamacubbie on Mar 26, 2011 9:04 PM CDT up reply actions
Russell was awful starting in the minor leagues.
I wouldn’t start him in the major leagues, ever.
Diamond is a Quad-A player.
Now, if you want to talk about guys like Trey McNutt — there’s the future of Cubs pitching, not failed prospects.
Check out Chicago sports coverage at SB Nation Chicago
McNutt is very good ball player
and I hope that his future is bright with the Cubs. He is from a town that is about 20 miles from my hometown. I was just naming Russell because he was a young lefty. Maybe Riggins can help a brother out.
by alabamacubbie on Mar 27, 2011 9:54 AM CDT up reply actions
Would not be surprised to see both start for the Cubs this year
Given the variables of experience, innings limits and injuries on the rest of the staff.
In a word ... yes.
Cashner has so much more upside than Coleman. Coleman at best becomes a bottom of the rotation guy, more likely a long relief mop-up guy, whereas Cashner has the potential to be an ace.
I always turn to the sports section first. The sports page records people's accomplishments; the front page has nothing but man's failures.
~Earl Warren
by lookingdeadred on Mar 28, 2011 7:54 AM CDT up reply actions
First
Great game. I think we will see many more games like this one with W flags.
We'll miss you Big Boy. #10 for Hall of Fame.
by mrcubsfan on Mar 26, 2011 7:32 PM CDT via mobile reply actions
Cubs are 14-16 and could/should finish spring training at or close to .500
This year the Cubs will have to rely on starting pitching being good (quality starts to the 7th-8th inning) and real good bullpen plus timely or good situational hitting to score runs.
The last couple of games Cubs have got men to 3rd with less than 2 outs and scored on sacrifice flies and then got big hits on doubles scoring bunches.
This will have to be their formula to compete this year.
Piniella: "This is a tougher job than I thought it would be, I'm going to be honest with you."
I LOL'ed at this word choice in the article you linked to, Al.
Apparently, Silva had some trouble digesting the news.
I think Muskat could have picked better words than those, given the reputation Silva has for being somewhat overweight.
I didn't believe it last August, but it turns out that love survives.
State high point count: 3/50
If you are grouchy, irritable, or just plain mean, there will be a $10 charge for putting up with you.
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Mar 26, 2011 7:34 PM CDT reply actions
That quote...
was hilarious. My friend said it best: “He ate his way off the ball club.”
by Grahamnation on Mar 26, 2011 7:39 PM CDT up reply actions
Still,
He had trouble digesting the news he was off the ball club.
I didn't believe it last August, but it turns out that love survives.
State high point count: 3/50
If you are grouchy, irritable, or just plain mean, there will be a $10 charge for putting up with you.
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Mar 26, 2011 7:40 PM CDT up reply actions
Not that he has trouble disgesting other things, he he.
"Chicago baseball fans, who are composites of scar tissue and mortifying memories..." - George F. Will
Avatar provided courtesy of AndrewJStone.
Sigh.
I don’t usually go for weight jokes. But I guess these are OK, under the circumstances.
Check out Chicago sports coverage at SB Nation Chicago
Just trying to cut out the fat....I guess the cubs have already done that!
by troutfishin on Mar 26, 2011 11:47 PM CDT up reply actions
I believe he bit off more than he could chew.
Then again, apparently not.
There are 108 beads in a Catholic rosary and there are 108 stitches in a baseball. Who says baseball isn't a religion?
It looks like Silva's had his fill...
But it’s a pretty weighty situation. If I were him, I’d tell my agent to chew the fat with other teams, although I’m sure there isn’t exactly a smorgasbord of interest out there. Either way, the Cubs will have to eat the beefy contract, and Silva will be living pretty fat for the rest of his life. Donuts.
Al, there's no sense wailing and gnashing your teeth over these comments.
;)
There are 108 beads in a Catholic rosary and there are 108 stitches in a baseball. Who says baseball isn't a religion?
My heart
just sunk during the bottom of the 1st. And then… I was all aglow over how much Cashner kept his cool after the fact.
PBS had been re-airing ALL of Ken Burns’ Baseball documentary since early in the morning, and it had me pumped for a GOOD ball game. And we got it.
Cashner had a it rough today
he did pull out and did well after the first two innings but he’s got to get better about the small things. Number 7 or 8 guy gets on base he needs to know how to put the ball in play on a sac. I mean you give yourself up for an out and you can’t even do that? I hope it was just jitters and he was excited about making the team. Thank goodness it was just a spring training game. I’m excited for him and the club.
As for Silva, after reading what was said I am very glad that he is no longer going to be on the team. With distractions in the past (Barrett, Zambrana, Rameriz) we do not need this crap for 2011. I don’t see anyone on this team that could be a distraction. I’m saying that assuming Silva will be gone.
I must have seen a different game.
I thought Cashner showed a lot in that game. Yeah he got rocked in the 1st and the 2nd started off shaky, but he got out of the inning unscored on. After that he settled down and powered through the Rangers. He showed he could make adjustments in the game and give his team a chance to win, and that is a good to see in such a young and inexperienced starter like Cashner. I came away cautiously optimistic.
BTW, it was pretty much a perfect day weather-wise at Surprise that day. Good day overall, saw the Cubs come back to win, and then saw the Sharks spank the collies that night.
I always turn to the sports section first. The sports page records people's accomplishments; the front page has nothing but man's failures.
~Earl Warren
by lookingdeadred on Mar 28, 2011 8:00 AM CDT up reply actions
Carlos
Thanks for making it possible for Milton to go bye bye, that alone makes you one of my favorite Cubs ever. Pretty dominate first half last year, before the health scare. Good Luck
Go Cashner!
Chicago Cubs - Arizona Cardinals 167 combined years and no rings
I guess I'm a masochist
by TBru on Mar 26, 2011 7:52 PM CDT reply actions 1 recs
When you think about it
all this stems from the Bradley trade. Bradley caused the Cubs so much trouble and we get Silva for him and all this? It’s a MB curse! It’s so cursed we do not need to trade anyone for him, just release him and count as loss.
by alabamacubbie on Mar 26, 2011 7:57 PM CDT up reply actions
“We’ve got to get more lefthanded.”
Hmm…. If memory serves, I believe Robert Redford is left-handed…
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
So is that guy who posts on BCB, ballhawk, or whatever his name is.
Sign both of them, Jim!!!
I didn't believe it last August, but it turns out that love survives.
State high point count: 3/50
If you are grouchy, irritable, or just plain mean, there will be a $10 charge for putting up with you.
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Mar 26, 2011 8:04 PM CDT up reply actions
Sorry
Redford is still under contract to the New York Knights
I'm wet nurse to a (5th)-place, dead-to-the-neck-up ball club, and I'm choking to death!
LOL.
Did Roy Hobbs just win them another pennant?
BTW, it seems his great-granddaughter spent some time in the little leagues out near Sebastopol, California:

I didn't believe it last August, but it turns out that love survives.
State high point count: 3/50
If you are grouchy, irritable, or just plain mean, there will be a $10 charge for putting up with you.
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Mar 26, 2011 8:29 PM CDT up reply actions
Loved something I saw today
that never would have seen Lou do was when Cashner was done pitching for the day the camera zoomed in on Quade sitting next to Cashner and talking with him. Would have loved to hear what he was saying to him.
A lovely story:
One day, long, long ago, there lived a woman who didn't whine, nag or bitch. That would be me....
But that was a long time ago and it was just that one day.
The end
I liked that too,
Thanks for pointing it out in the game thread. :) I couldn’t watch on TV right then.
I didn't believe it last August, but it turns out that love survives.
State high point count: 3/50
If you are grouchy, irritable, or just plain mean, there will be a $10 charge for putting up with you.
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Mar 26, 2011 7:59 PM CDT up reply actions
no problem
A lovely story:
One day, long, long ago, there lived a woman who didn't whine, nag or bitch. That would be me....
But that was a long time ago and it was just that one day.
The end
You never saw Lou talking to one of his pitchers?
Lou’s gone, and the man with all his faults the last two years is a baseball legend. Please let’s stop with the comparisons between Quade and Lou. Quade has long way to go before he can be compared in the same breath as Piniella.
by troutfishin on Mar 26, 2011 8:02 PM CDT up reply actions 2 recs
No I never did so
I can make comparisons if I want to. Don’t like it skip over my comments.
A lovely story:
One day, long, long ago, there lived a woman who didn't whine, nag or bitch. That would be me....
But that was a long time ago and it was just that one day.
The end
by sue369 on Mar 26, 2011 8:06 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
I think it's a case of selective memory...
…if you don’t recall one time Lou talking to one of his pitchers.
I don't remember seeing him
go and sit next to one of his pitchers and talk to him after he was done pitching.
A lovely story:
One day, long, long ago, there lived a woman who didn't whine, nag or bitch. That would be me....
But that was a long time ago and it was just that one day.
The end
I didn't say you can't make comparisons..
…I just think it’s a disservice to both Lou and Quade for comparisons to be made.
You're a Cubs fan?
Nice to see you around here.
"What do you think, I just dunked my whole career?" Jordan asked Henderson after making a 3.
"You’ve got to miss eventually," Henderson told him.
"That’s what Cleveland said," replied Jordan
Yes I am and thanks. :)
A lovely story:
One day, long, long ago, there lived a woman who didn't whine, nag or bitch. That would be me....
But that was a long time ago and it was just that one day.
The end
I dont recall seeing Lou talking to many players during a game either.
I saw him talking to Larry a lot. But I think it is worth noting that Quade is definitely more of a “players” coach. No doubt that Lou is a legend but how can you not compare the two? They both managed the Chicago Cubs. Because Lou has a history you can’t compare the two? They have different personalities and different coaching styles and both managed the cubs- compare away! To me Lou seemed more interested in talking to the media and his other coaches rather than actually “coaching” the 2010 Cubs. I’m excited about the relationship Q seems to have with a lot of these players that Lou frankly didn’t seem to have.
by iowacityCUB on Mar 27, 2011 12:49 AM CDT up reply actions
Thanks. Well said.
A lovely story:
One day, long, long ago, there lived a woman who didn't whine, nag or bitch. That would be me....
But that was a long time ago and it was just that one day.
The end
Lulz
Lou did the exact same thing, and, as I’ve shown, he was lauded for how personable he was with his players (maybe not this last season ). The Lou bashing is ridiculous. He was one of the better managers we’ve ever had. Maybe he was bad last year, but man, people have some short memories.
by Bad Midget on Mar 26, 2011 8:08 PM CDT up reply actions 2 recs
I wasn't bashing Lou. I never saw
Lou do that but I did see Quade do that today. It was a comparison not bashing.
A lovely story:
One day, long, long ago, there lived a woman who didn't whine, nag or bitch. That would be me....
But that was a long time ago and it was just that one day.
The end
Yes he was one of the better managers the Cubs have had...
…however the way he chose to go out really tarnished the last year of his career. I think he got burnt out, the players sensed it and they quit on him.
Yeah
I just think Lou came to the realization that they weren’t going anywhere and just didn’t care anymore. Still, I think people forget how great he was for the first three years. Two division titles in his first two years, then that 2009 team that had no business being in first place on August 1, but he got them there.
Lou was not particularly "personable" with players
during his stint with the Cubs. He never made an effort to learn the players names for one thing and he had poor communication with the players. pitchers in particular. It was pretty much
“throw strikes” and nothing more.
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either
by Doggie Stalker on Mar 26, 2011 9:35 PM CDT up reply actions
Stevie Irie
Would disagree with you. :-)
by Josh Timmers on Mar 26, 2011 9:43 PM CDT up reply actions
Remember it wasn't until his final year that we started to here...
….grumblings of discontent in that clubhouse. I heard a number of players say that Lou had an open door policy while at the same time not getting involved in the day to day activities of the clubhouse. Lou kept his distance as a lot of good managers have done, but that certainly did not mean he didn’t work with his players.
by troutfishin on Mar 26, 2011 10:15 PM CDT up reply actions
That is simply not true
Most players didn’t “grumble” but guys like DeRosa, Wood, & Eyre made a few veiled comments along the lines of not knowing what Lou wanted. These of course were guys who left , because guys on the team are not going to say anything on the record. Lou’s lack of communication and understanding of pitchers goes back to the start of his managerial career.
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either
by Doggie Stalker on Mar 26, 2011 10:33 PM CDT up reply actions
Look say what you will about Lou...
…but neither you or I were there to know what went on in the clubhouse during his 4 year stint with the team. I would take the first 2.5 years of Lou every time, he did some things no other Cub manager was able to accomplish in our lifetimes. There are some players that didn’t care playing for Lou and there were some that loved playing for him, regardless he produced results.
by troutfishin on Mar 26, 2011 11:35 PM CDT up reply actions
Agreed on the first 2.5 years...
… although I might make that only two years.
After that he seemed to check out.
Check out Chicago sports coverage at SB Nation Chicago
Yes he got us to the post season twice for consecutive SWEEPS
I will take Dusty who got us something better. six post season wins and a winning a post season series. Yes it ended ugly but he got a hell of a lot closer than Lou.
If you want to talk about selective memory I think Dusty is the one who gets the raw deal especially having to deal with far more major injuries than Lou.
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either
by Doggie Stalker on Mar 27, 2011 12:31 AM CDT up reply actions
May have but most likely may not have.
There any many reasons (some just rumors) about the rise and fall of Mark Prior. I don’t lay that one on Dusty Baker. I’m not a big Baker fan but the original poster’s point is true. Baker did more for the Cubs than Piniella.
John Grabow: $4.8 million in 2011.
for whatever reason
he made some dumb decisions when the lights were bright. And he hated OBP.
He gets a raw deal, but he wasn’t that great either.
"What do you think, I just dunked my whole career?" Jordan asked Henderson after making a 3.
"You’ve got to miss eventually," Henderson told him.
"That’s what Cleveland said," replied Jordan
FYI I did not mean the Cubs gave Baker (or Lou)
a raw deal. Both had clearly had to go. My problem is with fans who think Lou was a great manager and Dusty was horrible. That is selective memory.
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either
by Doggie Stalker on Mar 27, 2011 10:28 AM CDT up reply actions
Oh I agree.
Lou was pretty terrible.
"What do you think, I just dunked my whole career?" Jordan asked Henderson after making a 3.
"You’ve got to miss eventually," Henderson told him.
"That’s what Cleveland said," replied Jordan
Lou was fine the first two years.
After that, not so much.
Check out Chicago sports coverage at SB Nation Chicago
Kinda
He made some Dusty mistakes in the playoffs, then he really stopped caring.
"What do you think, I just dunked my whole career?" Jordan asked Henderson after making a 3.
"You’ve got to miss eventually," Henderson told him.
"That’s what Cleveland said," replied Jordan
Remember, Lou didn't get to swing a bat...
…in either playoff series. I don’t blame Lou for those loses, they didn’t hit.
Dont forget the collision with Marcus Giles...
..Prior should have shut it down for an extended period of time, but that didn’t happen and Dusty rode his horses all the way to the playoffs. I believe prior averaged over 120 pitches the month of september.
Thats true.....
But only for the lesser players, which I cannot blame him for. I remember on Lou’s last day, after the game was over Ramirez was the first one to give him a handshake and a hug. I think that shows Lou had a lot of respect from the veterans.
I thought it was amusing
I drove over and watched the team workout at Hohokam this morning. Quade was pitching BP and evidently was struggling as he screamed ‘G-Dammit’ to himself after almost every pitch. Quade definately treated Cashner better than he treats himself..
I'm wet nurse to a last-place, dead-to-the-neck-up ball club, and I'm choking to death!
If Riggins approached Silva in that manner...
…then I agree with him. Be Straight with who your dealing with, yes it’s tough news to deliver but be a man about it. Glad Silva’s gone, couldn’t happen to bigger piece of crap.
Lets hope this closes
the chapter of Milton Bradley and the aftermath it created . Bradley is long gone and Silva has packed up and headed who knows where . Lets hope that Hendry and staff have learned a lesson from this mess .
With ST almost over the team has played better the last few games . Quade has a focus on winning and is positive . So far I am impressed much more than last year . Cant wait for 4-1-11 to arrive .
5 more days ... 5 more days....
Question. I know baseball is beginning on a Thursday this year (WTH is up with that?). What is the matchup this Thursday for opening night?
I didn't believe it last August, but it turns out that love survives.
State high point count: 3/50
If you are grouchy, irritable, or just plain mean, there will be a $10 charge for putting up with you.
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Mar 26, 2011 8:04 PM CDT reply actions
Never mind.
I just looked it up. Holy crap, they messed opening day (on Thursday) up big-time this year.
I didn't believe it last August, but it turns out that love survives.
State high point count: 3/50
If you are grouchy, irritable, or just plain mean, there will be a $10 charge for putting up with you.
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Mar 26, 2011 8:06 PM CDT up reply actions
They didn't mess anything up.
They don’t want the world series to be played in November.
"You win because of the quarterback. We have to get that position stabilized. We're fixated on that." -- Jerry Angelo (12.30.2008)
Jerry Angelo trades for Jay Cutler! (4.2.2009)
I can understand that,
Only 12 teams are playing on Thursday. In terms of the number of teams playing on opening day, that’s the smallest number in 25 years.
And it gets even better. No Cubs. No Red Sox. No Phillies.
Instead you get such wonderful and appealing games as Tigers-Yankees and Brewers-Reds. The only game I actually am looking forward to on Thursday is Giants-Dodgers.
I didn't believe it last August, but it turns out that love survives.
State high point count: 3/50
If you are grouchy, irritable, or just plain mean, there will be a $10 charge for putting up with you.
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Mar 26, 2011 8:19 PM CDT up reply actions
I can understand that,
But only*…
I didn't believe it last August, but it turns out that love survives.
State high point count: 3/50
If you are grouchy, irritable, or just plain mean, there will be a $10 charge for putting up with you.
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Mar 26, 2011 8:19 PM CDT up reply actions
Most people here think that the Brewers-Reds opening series
is between the two top teams in the Central, can’t get much better than that can it?
It's never bothered them in the past.
There are 108 beads in a Catholic rosary and there are 108 stitches in a baseball. Who says baseball isn't a religion?
This cubs.com article indicates that Mike Quade thinks Jeff Samardzija, James Russell and Marcos Mateo are all going to be expected to be able to have 40-pitch, two-plus-inning outings.
God help us.
Please, anything but that.
I didn't believe it last August, but it turns out that love survives.
State high point count: 3/50
If you are grouchy, irritable, or just plain mean, there will be a $10 charge for putting up with you.
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Mar 26, 2011 8:14 PM CDT up reply actions
In games that we are behind early
they can all pitch 2 innings each, that way the Cubs sell more beer during those long innings! Honestly I hope that collectively they hold their own. This is the one area of the club that I think is truly weak, getting the game to Wood, Marshall, and Marmol.
not to mention Wood will probably be injured for half the year
we only really have two reliable relievers.
From rumblings and speculation in the Chicago radiowaves
over the past few weeks…. Silva’s attitude, more than anything else, is what got him the boot. He doesn’t make friends very easily.
"You win because of the quarterback. We have to get that position stabilized. We're fixated on that." -- Jerry Angelo (12.30.2008)
Jerry Angelo trades for Jay Cutler! (4.2.2009)
He'll be starting for the Cardinals by the end of June.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Mar 26, 2011 8:21 PM CDT up reply actions
And saying he's on the "right side" of that rivalry.
I didn't believe it last August, but it turns out that love survives.
State high point count: 3/50
If you are grouchy, irritable, or just plain mean, there will be a $10 charge for putting up with you.
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Mar 26, 2011 8:22 PM CDT up reply actions
ho-hos
ask not what the Cubs can do for you - ask what you can do for the Cubs.
by holy mackeral on Mar 26, 2011 8:24 PM CDT up reply actions
i think he has a girlfriend named debbie
He's my Hossa
HO-HO-HO-HO-HOSSA
by jesus christos on Mar 26, 2011 8:30 PM CDT up reply actions
Naturally the ballhawk side of me is sorry to see Silva go, but the Cubs fan in me says it's about time. However...
…I gotta take issue with this line of thinking, Al.
…but whining by Carlos Silva, who wouldn’t do what was best for the team
You really expect someone who’s been in the bigs for several years to take a minor-league assignment because it’s “best for the team”? I realize that aging/rehabbing/sucky veterans do go down to the minors on occasion, but it’s most likely because it was best for the player, not the team.
If you really think what’s best for the Cubs should be driving a player’s decision making process, then you should be lambasting Hill for not retiring, Fukudome for not going back to Japan, Soriano and Z for not giving back millions of $ every year, etc.
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
by ballhawk on Mar 26, 2011 8:39 PM CDT reply actions 2 recs
This will end well....
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Mar 26, 2011 8:43 PM CDT up reply actions
Well....they are paying him a ton of cash...
…you would think he could act with just a touch more class than that. Do you think the Cubs should just assume he wouldn’t take the assignment because he is a “veteran”?
No - the Cubs absolutely made the right call in offering him the assignment...
… because sending him to Iowa is what’s best for the Cubs – unless Hendry pulls another something-out-of-nothing trade out of his bag of tricks (Silva for Montero? ha ha…)
My point is Silva – and just about every other player this side of Gil Meche – would sit down with his agent, evaluate all his options and I would presume, take the course of action that would enable him to pitch in the majors this year. Maybe it does involve a stint in the minors. Or maybe it’s waiting to see if some club has some injury issues and/or is desperate for starters. In any event, it’s the player doing what’s best for the player. I challenge anyone here to say they would do something different.
Again, the Gil Meche’s of the world are very few and far between.
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
gotta agree with this
also Sliva didn’t even sign with the Cubs. He really owes the Chicago organization nothing.
Red Reporter: Driving that train high on cocaine.
by justin007000 on Mar 26, 2011 9:04 PM CDT up reply actions
What exactly did he say that was "classless"
He said he was angry and felt the Cubs had not been honest with him. I suspect there is little bit of Rashomon here with Silva, Riggins & Hendry all seeing how it was dealt with differently. It was pretty stupid of the Cubs to send Riggins to ask him to go to AAA. There was virtually no chance he would go, but if they were going to ask it should have been Hendry. Silva has nothing to gain by going to AAA and the Cubs had to know that. Once the Cubs decided he was not making the roster, Hendry should have told him directly explaining that the thought Cashner was the better option and while they would grateful if he would consider going to Iowa, they understood it was unlikely . Silva and the entire MLB knew Hendry was trying to trade Silva for a long time, so I don’t begrudge Silva a little frustration with how it was handled. It may not have been the best choice of words but it was not classless and he was not ripping the team.
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either
by Doggie Stalker on Mar 26, 2011 10:47 PM CDT up reply actions 5 recs
That's not the way I saw it.
It was pretty classless, IMO.
Check out Chicago sports coverage at SB Nation Chicago
I rec'd this
solely for the Rashomon reference. Nicely done, Jess.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Mar 27, 2011 12:28 PM CDT up reply actions
I agree with you, and actually this proves my point.
Clearly, Silva did NOT do that sort of thing with his agent or anyone else. He just spouted off. Now, maybe with a cooler head he’d do exactly what you suggest: “take the course of action that would enable him to pitch in the majors this year”.
He has done exactly the reverse. He’s made himself toxic to pretty much every organization out there. Sure, maybe someone will take a flyer on him. I’m reminded of the way Sidney Ponson comported himself — poorly.
Maybe Carlos Silva is a nice guy in person. Maybe he isn’t. But the image I have of him is extremely poor. That’s why I headlined this post the way I did.
Check out Chicago sports coverage at SB Nation Chicago
Want to bet on that too Al?
Silva will be grabbed up after he clears waivers. He is no Sidney Ponson and some teams are desperate for a starter.
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either
by Doggie Stalker on Mar 26, 2011 10:49 PM CDT up reply actions
no more toxic than he already was
but this notion that a player is expected to do “what’s best for the team” is a bit outdated.
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
Your headline is wrong, plan and simple
He contributed to the Cubs last year, no question about it. You’re overreacting yet again to a guy who won’t toe the Cubbie line.
"When they signed Fukudome, I knew they were trying to get me fired". - Ron Santo, January, 2008
plain and simple, whatever
"When they signed Fukudome, I knew they were trying to get me fired". - Ron Santo, January, 2008
You know I am really optimistic for this season
and for the direction the club showed today…they released a guy rather than taking him north because of his contract.
Honestly, with all the injuries and circuses around the NL Central I think the Cubs have a very legitimate shot at winning the NL Central this year.
I am shocked
I didn’t think the Cubs would have the stones to make this decision. It would be odd to wind up eating Silva’s contract, then fail to dump Hill when he so clearly shouldn’t make the team.
Cashner
Does anyone out there know what he projects to? Is he a TOR kinda guy or are we looking at 3 as a ceiling? I ask because ESPN was going on about how he was going to be a TOR guy and I didnt think he had that kind of a ceiling
Some reports I have read say that with control and
an improved change, he could be an MLB #1 or 2.
Come on Lisa, I'm trying to impress people here. You don't win friends with salad. ~ Homer J. Simpson
by TheBeerBaron on Mar 26, 2011 10:16 PM CDT up reply actions
Number one
is a little ambitious. That would mean he’d be one of the top 20 pitchers in the game. I think most think his ceiling is a number two. There’s some disagreement as to how likely he is to reach that ceiling. Some think he has a good chance, others think that’s unlikely and that he’s much more likely to be a #3. There are even some who still think he’d be better off as a closer, although most scouts seem to agree it’s worth it to try him out as a starter first.
by Josh Timmers on Mar 26, 2011 10:28 PM CDT up reply actions
I made this comparison last year.
Adam Wainwright came up through the Braves chain as a starter. When he came to the majors the Cardinals put him in the bullpen. He had a good year there — a better year than Cashner had last year — and wound up closing out the World Series for the Cardinals.
He then went into their rotation the next year and was solid. If Cashner could have a season like Wainwright’s 2007 year, we’d be real happy.
I don’t think Cashner is quite that good, yet, or maybe he never will be. But the comparison of how Wainwright went from minor league starting, to MLB relieving, then to MLB starting, is, IMO, something similar to what Cashner could do. Wainwright was 25 when he made this transition. Cashner is 24. It just might work better than any of us could imagine.
Check out Chicago sports coverage at SB Nation Chicago
Wainwright is a very different type of pitcher
and he’s always had outstanding control that Cashner just doesn’t have.
But having said that, we don’t need him to be that good. Even if he falls short of that level of excellence, he can still be a very good pitcher. With just a solid season, we could have the best rotation in the NL Central.
by Josh Timmers on Mar 26, 2011 10:55 PM CDT up reply actions
I think
we already have the best rotation top to bottom in the NL Central – and maybe even top 5-7 in the majors…
by hansman1982 on Mar 26, 2011 11:08 PM CDT up reply actions
NL Central
Whether the Cubs have the best rotation in the NL Central depends on a.) which Carlos Zambrano shows up this year and b.) how significant the Reds injuries are. As much as it pains me to say, I think that people are really underestimating how good and deep the Reds staff is with Volquez, Cueto, Arroyo, Leake, Wood, Bailey and possibly Chapman.
The Brewers
have Greinke, Gallardo, Marcum, Wolf and Narverson. I think you could make an argument that they’re better, although it’s not clear cut. But if Cashner turns into a solid starter, then I don’t think there’s much debate anymore.
by Josh Timmers on Mar 26, 2011 11:27 PM CDT up reply actions
Cashner and Wells will have to have solid years
Cashner will need to learn to pitch, flash his 4-seam, use his 2-seam more, make his change up an out pitch and use his slider for the necessary swing & miss moments.
Wells will need to grind and learn to start games without getting dinged too often.
If Zambrano finally has a year that he is being paid to have…Dempster and Garza will do their professional expectations….Cubs will be very well served.
For all this to happen Cubs will need to glove, throw and make outs and not give other teams more outs——meaning defense. Barney appears to be mostly the answer now at 2B, but LF is a big hole…that will be the next emotional issue for Quade and Co.
Piniella: "This is a tougher job than I thought it would be, I'm going to be honest with you."
Zambrano is the X factor
Garza and Dempster have track records and will probably be “solid not spectacular.” Wells looks like he should be pretty effective. Cashner is a young #5, so expectations are muted. In the end, Z’s season will probably drive the overall effectiveness of the rotation.
As I said
I’m not expecting him to be as good as Wainwright. But he could make the transition and be a solid #5 starter.
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I think
he can be quite a bit better than that this season. Just not at Wainwright’s level. My point is that he doesn’t need to be, and I think that’s what you’re saying too.
by Josh Timmers on Mar 26, 2011 11:28 PM CDT up reply actions
Exactly.
The transition is the point, not the level of performance.
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Yesterday's game
I’m more comfortable with Cashner as #5 after yesterday. It looks like the right decision. He will struggle at times this year but I’m looking at this season as a stepping stone for him.
John Grabow: $4.8 million in 2011.
Too Left Handed
he team mantra (whoever you want to blame for this, it really doesn’t matter now): “We’ve got to get more lefthanded.”
If you’re going to knock Lou for wanting to get more lefhanded, then knock every other manager and GM in the game. Every team aims for balance. Every team does their level best to break up their right handed hitters, especially in the middle of the line-up. The problem was that Hendry ran the club like it was a roto-league team and just added players and didn’t seem to have a team concept. So Lou wanted what every other team in the sport has, balance.
So bash Lou, but if this wish to be more left handed is a bad thing, then its endemic to the entire sport. It was such a big deal with that team a.) because Hendry had done such a poor job with the righty/lefty balance and b.) he went after a terrible person in an attempt to fix the problem.
Hey, gotta give Al some credit here.
This is the first time EVER that he didn’t specifically call out Lou when talking about the whole lefty thing.
GM's are in charge of Managers, not the other way around.
All of team management wanted that.
What I think they failed to recognize was:
1) They had just led the NL in runs scored and wins with that “too RH” team
2) They had a decent option in Jim Edmonds, who they could have re-signed for one more year, and spent the MB money elsewhere, and kept most of the rest of the team together.
No one should keep 100% of a playoff team together. The Cubs learned that after 1998. But to blow it up the way they did? Overreaction, IMO.
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Wasn't Kosuke a big part of the problem, though?
Obviously they couldn’t trade him, so they figured they’d move him to center, where he’d hopefully be worth more.
GM's are in charge of Managers, not the other way around.
I think it was more...
… the fact that they couldn’t find that “LH bat” to play CF, so they figured Kosuke could play CF and the big bat could be in RF.
My point was that they could have gotten equivalent production out of Edmonds, saved money, and kept Fukudome at a position he was better at.
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Why didn't Edmonds
play anywhere in 2009?
by Not Bruce Froemming on Mar 26, 2011 11:55 PM CDT up reply actions
I'm pretty sure he was recovering fro injury...
“Lowwer Body”? Hip, foot, knee or some such. I liked him a lot the year he played with cubbies
I didn't understand the "white-collar Cub fans", "blue-collar Sox fans" until much later in life. Harry Smith~ "For Cubs Fans Only".
I don't think so.
No one offered him a contract. I think teams may have felt he would be looking for too much $ after his good year with the Cubs.
It’s clear to me that the Cubs could have kept him for less money than they paid [name redacted].
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Or they could have signed Abreu for cheap
And had a real RF (MB only stays healthy at DH) and actual LH hitter (MB’s career splits are much stronger as a RH hitter). Signing Bradley was really an unforced error on Hendry’s part.
Silva saga over
I think the Cubs will be better off by releasing him. When Silva is gone then the chances of his being a further distraction are gone. They’re on the hook to pay his salary anyway, so they should leave the door open to possibly get the league minimum, or whatever another team is willing to pay in a last minute trade, to offset the amount owed. I don’t see where the chances of trading him improve with a minor league assignment. While technically an option, I can’t believe anybody would have expected that. Silva is better off being free to sign with another team in case another team wants him.
I am going to miss Silva!!!!!
Now they need to release Hill
name Barney the starter at 2B
name Colvin the starter in RF
The Barney one is close….Lets go 4-4 Jim and Mike!!!!
Hey TJ.
What if they did that? Then what would YOU do?
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Overdose on Kool Aid!!!!!!!!!
Change my win total for the Cubs from 122 games to 132 games…!!!!!!
(And maybe, just maybe, my opinion of some the Cubs brass would be a little different….)
Good Evening TJ11
I was hoping that we coulda broken the Silva news to you sloooowly… I was lookin for you on the first thread,,,I didn’t want you to take the news too hard. You gonna be ok tonite???
I didn't understand the "white-collar Cub fans", "blue-collar Sox fans" until much later in life. Harry Smith~ "For Cubs Fans Only".
Every negative comment I've said so far about Quade would be taken back
Hendry on the other hand? Not so much.
by troutfishin on Mar 26, 2011 11:50 PM CDT up reply actions
But those choices would be the GM's, too, not just the manager's.
So are you saying you’d keep bashing Hendry just to do it, even if the decisions made were the ones you wanted? Sounds like it to me.
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I would hope that if there was a disagreement between Quade and Hendry, I would hope Ricketts would step in and take Quade's side, Since Hendry has put then in this situation in the first place.
It would be nice to see, but I do not believe Ricketts knows enough about the players to do that and if he did do that Hendry would have to be fired since Ricketts does not have his back.
They hired Quade as a new voice. Let him use it.
Unless its used to keep Hill. If that is Quade’s call, I totally question is ability to make decisions.
by TJ11 on Mar 27, 2011 9:30 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Good riddance.
I was going to write more about why we don’t want or need him on this team, and why management confounds me with good decisions like this but makes poor ones like keeping Samardzija around to screw up, but instead, “Good riddance” sums everything up pretty nicely.
"The riches of the game are in the thrills, not the money." --Ernie Banks
That.
I don’t understand why this is controversial. Silva wasn’t any good. He may or may not be a bad influence in the clubhouse. He had a good first half last year but has been horrible since. Kudos to the Cubs for realizing that.
by San Diego Smooth Jazz Man on Mar 27, 2011 12:41 PM CDT up reply actions
Wrong decision in my eyes.
Silva was frankly our best pitcher for a large part of last year. The man knows how to throw strikes. He will on occasion get hit hard but he does not walk batters and when confident can throw a gem of a game as we saw last season and last week. Cashner has a nice upside and is the future but has major control issues – what is the problem with having him start at Iowa to learn some control and having a pitcher like Silva throwing strikes every fifth game until we can bring Cash up in a month or so when we he is ready to deal. Silva still had something to give to this club at least in the early part of the season- we just threw $7+ million down the drain.
On occasion gets hit hard?
Like everytime he pitched this spring? This was a great decision, sometimes you have to cut your losses.
"Ask Dad. He'll know. And on the off chance he doesn't, he'll make something up"
Or, how about the second half of last year with a 5.50 ERA
Let’s not forget he did start 11 games after that hot start, and was pretty awful.
Iowa- Silva refused to go to minor leagues
That made decision simple
I didn't understand the "white-collar Cub fans", "blue-collar Sox fans" until much later in life. Harry Smith~ "For Cubs Fans Only".
Why in the world would you expect an MLB vet to go to the minors?
Please give examples of struggling highly paid players who were not injured and agreed to go
play minors? There is a very good chance an MLB team will pick up Silva as soon as he clears waivers. Starting pitchers are nearly always given a few extra shots.
I doubt even the Cubs consider the decision “simple”.
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either
by Doggie Stalker on Mar 27, 2011 1:22 AM CDT up reply actions
Iowa
I’m glad that Silva rejected the decision to go to Iowa. I would rather see Coleman, Carpenter and Jackson develop. Bibens-Dirkx and Diamond can fill out the Iowa rotation. Hopefully, McNutt can join them at some point during the season. I did not want to see Silva taking starts any from a prospect or potential prospect.
listen
we should all be gratefull to silva for helping rid the team of that cancer bradley.we got more out of him in half a season then we ever did out of the cancer.so instead of owing bradley 20 mill we owe silva 6 mill.im sure he will be released.and he will find a team right away. everybodys willing to take a chance on pitching.right prior.
You can thank and be grateful the Mariners for making the deal.
Silva was ‘just an employee’ in the whole saga. It’s not like he could refuse the trade to the Cubs.
There are 108 beads in a Catholic rosary and there are 108 stitches in a baseball. Who says baseball isn't a religion?
What's the deal with Silva?
He’s going to make $11 million this year whether he pitches or stays home! Man, I’d love a job like that with that kind of pay!
"Hey-Hey! Home Run! Attaboy Ronnie!" ~ Jack Brickhouse
The Cubs spin here is ridiculous.
OK, Silva may not have said the right thing but if it happened as he said it did then Quade and Riggins need to learn how to give bad news. It is a tough thing for anyone in a management position but it looks like everyone including Hendry may have been dancing around the news to Silva.
All this “take it like a man” and “He should be happy” is just BS. If Silva’s story is correct, it doesn’t look like Quade and Riggins told Silva “like a man”. As for Silva, he wants to pitch in the majors, why shouldn’t he be upset?
John Grabow: $4.8 million in 2011.
by rlpete on Mar 27, 2011 7:33 AM CDT reply actions 1 recs
Absolutely right
When you have to fire someone, you don’t hem and haw about it, leaving the person dangling. You do it swiftly and decisively; anything else is bad for the person receiving the bad news as well as the person that has to deliver it.
If Riggins did indeed try to sugar coat it, Silva is 100% correct that it was handled poorly.
by Shanghai Badger on Mar 27, 2011 8:13 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
I am glad they let Silva go....But we have a minor league coaching staff....This stuff is going to happen. They will have to learn how to deal with the million dollar egos on the fly.
Not even million dollar egos -- that's no way to break news to anyone
by Shanghai Badger on Mar 27, 2011 9:44 AM CDT up reply actions
I agree Riggins was wrong...
I am saying thats what the Cubs will have to deal with when they hire cheap labor…
Riggins learned an important lesson on being straight with people!
When you are a starting pitcher with a 10.90 ERA, you should not be surprised when the axe falls....
That's not the point
When the axe falls, it should fall swiftly. You can’t gently use an axe.
by Shanghai Badger on Mar 27, 2011 12:48 PM CDT up reply actions
Quade had to be thinking about Silva's skirmish with A-Ram, and hardly wanted to be the new Frank Lucchesi...
…or baseball’s version of P.J. Carlesimo. This shows Q’s good instincts, at least in terms of self-preservation. Riggins took one for the team, and should expect to see a Bronze Star sitting in his locker by Opening Day.
"Elder White! Look at the talent on those Cubs!" Harry Caray, KMOX Radio, 4/22/62
"And you have to wonder – What's the matter with Broglio?" Harry, KMOX, 5/24/64
Either way.....
Saying that someone who made an out because they are loafing, not possibly changing the game is hilarious!!!
How many times have we seen Soriano (or Sosa before him) thrown out at 2b trying to get a face saving double when they watched what they thought was a HR in the batters box?
How many times have we seen a play botched when the guy wasnt running and he was out anyways?
This stuff does not change games?
Are you for giving away outs?
Are you for letting players do what ever they want?
Are you for setting a horid example for the younger players?
Are you Aram and Soriano’s agent?
What is wrong with you?
Give 100% all the time…Its the least you can do for millions of dollars!!!!
In order of ur questions....
twice
never
no
no
yes
no, these guys dont do that
no
nothing, i have common sense
Nobody gives 100% all the time…..ever. It’s impossible. No point in even trying to dispute that.
I'm
still waiting for you to show me the numbers. How many wins does jogging to first on a routine ground ball cost over a whole season?
Guess what.
It’s something you can’t quantify. But that drives you nuts, doesn’t it.
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You could quanitfy it
it would just take an extraordinary amount of time to do it, and I don’t think anyone here cares to do it. That nobody has taken the time to prove something exists does not prove it’s noexistence.
Are you disputing that players don’t hustling to first hasn’t cost a team outs? If it costs outs, it can cost runs. If it costs runs, it can cost games.
Not to mention that there is value in acting like a professional. Players are paid a lot of money to do their best, and effort is contagious. If you were being lazy at your job and asked your boss to prove that it was costing the company money, I doubt that would go over very well.
DEJESUS!!!
Not to mention that there is value in acting like a professional. Players are paid a lot of money to do their best, and effort is contagious. If you were being lazy at your job and asked your boss to prove that it was costing the company money, I doubt that would go over very well.
Well stated.
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Look, I love love love numbers.
I love them in baseball, that doesn’t mean that I have to turn off my baseball sensibilities just because I happen to like wOBA and all that.
Not running to first offends my baseball taste. I don’t like it on a team that I root for. I’d rather be without it.
"What do you think, I just dunked my whole career?" Jordan asked Henderson after making a 3.
"You’ve got to miss eventually," Henderson told him.
"That’s what Cleveland said," replied Jordan
Silva Questions
Carlos is a cold weather pitcher. With all that insulation, he is best-suited to pitching in the early season and, if ever needed, October. The heat of Arizona is the worst scenario for a pitcher like him. If the Cubs’ spring training was in Manitoba, he’d be the best pitcher on the staff. The desert air makes it very hard to evaluate command of breaking pitches. Speed gun pitchers have the advantage in AZ.
I don’t think the Cubs are very good at asset management. They remind me too much of my friends on Wall Street who are too busy making positional statements rather than trying to maximize what they already have.
If I remember correctly, last June there was talk of Silva possibly being the Cubs’ lone mandatory representative at the All-Star game. I would thank him, at least, for that much.
the whole horrible Bradley Experiment was a textbook case of asset MISmanagement
period.
Silva was the gleam of silver lining that really could have gotten better except that Silva, in his rather shall we say expansive state of mind, had read too much of Bradley’s playbook and acted like he was the second coming of Luis Tiant and when his body stopped cashing the checks his mouth and attitude couldn’t pay, a Cashner seemingly can.
But I don’t know if Cashner should have the lock – iowacityCubs has a point about his control issues. Still, he’s young and promising and this could be a great year.
We’ll see.
Blue mountains high .. Blue valleys low
I don't know which way we shall go ..
One summer dream .. one summer dream ..
coda
ELO, 1975
by cubnational on Mar 27, 2011 10:55 AM CDT up reply actions
I am assuming you were kidding in asking if the Cubs
had ever run down a players value before trading him. Does the name Sammy Sosa ring a bell?
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either
by Doggie Stalker on Mar 27, 2011 11:20 AM CDT up reply actions
"Unconditional release" answers the question.
No, he won’t be traded. No, he won’t start Monday.
Yes, this was a bad decision from day one, the signing of [name redacted].
Your statement that Silva is a “cold weather pitcher” doesn’t really wash. He threw very well in spring training in 2010, which continued into the beginning of the season. Also, his home starts before the Cubs were in Minnesota and Seattle, both domes.
He’s done. The lesson learned is “don’t ever make signings like that again”. Let’s move on.
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Can
Hendry release Grabow and learn to never make bad decisions on expensive middle relievers too? Can he also dump Dewitt and find a solid second baseman, rather than 3 bad ones as he tends to do every year? Can he stop catering to the whims of the manager, even when it’s detrimental to the team and can he develop a long-term vision?
I’d like him to work on those things too.
DEJESUS!!!
Grabow has actually been decent the last couple of outings.
He may provide value this year. I’m guessing Hendry won’t do that again.
And the Cubs may have found their 2B in Barney. The organization is producing major league players. Let’s see how this year plays out.
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The whole smile thing was wishful thinking
No one was going to give the Cubs anything nor pay much of Silva’s salary. I’m sure Hendry tried after Silva’s last outing. The Yankess preferred signing Millwood.
Anyone who thought the Cubs would get anything wasn’t looking at reality and Silva’s performance.
John Grabow: $4.8 million in 2011.
Blyleven's take on Silva
“As far as a person, this guy works his rear end off,” Blyleven said. “He’s a good clubhouse presence. He’s got very good chemistry with all the other players. He’s a nice addition to the Cubs as long as he’s healthy.”
If a quality pitching start is 3 runs and 6 innings, then a quality hitting day is 1 for 4.
Looking at him, it's pretty apparent he has yet to work his rear end off
Or his front porch, for that matter……
I don't disagree at all
In fact, when I saw him at ST last year I was appalled at his conditioning. My point was that he had a history of being a good clubhouse guy, not a Bradley type.
If a quality pitching start is 3 runs and 6 innings, then a quality hitting day is 1 for 4.
Just how bad was the Bradley signing
The final lesson of the Milton Bradley signing and its aftermath, which gave us Silva (who at least contributed half a decent season), to GM Jim Hendry is this: don’t do anything like this ever again, something that backs the team into a corner and costs many millions of dollars for no production. This was one of Hendry’s biggest failures, and he has to know he can’t do it again. Ever.
While we all can agree that the Bradley signing was a poor decision, it strikes me that we do a disservice to the overall management of the team by suggesting that the Cubs future was doomed by that choice. Yes, Bradley did cost us 3/$30M, but our payroll was about $145M. So Bradley cost us less than 10% of our payroll over a 3 year period, even less when you factor in the positive WAR values of Bradley and Silva.
We committed huge resources in both time and salary to players after career type years. Not one of those players have replicated the stats that got them the contracts we’re suffering through these years. To me the lesson is
Stop buying high and trying to sell low.
If a quality pitching start is 3 runs and 6 innings, then a quality hitting day is 1 for 4.
My money is on Silva ending up in St. Louis
Dave Duncan has a track record of taking veteran pitchers who had a bad year and trying to turn them around. Jeff Weaver in their World Series year. Kyle Lohse. Joel Pineiro. Todd Wellemeyer. Not all of them worked out (Wellemeyer was pretty awful last year), but Weaver, Lohse and Pineiro had varing degrees of success. Silva will cost them next to nothing too. Just my .02¢ worth.
One day, the dream will come true.

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