Sam Fuld is killing as a Ray
We"re gonna regret giving up on fuld. The Cubs never valued his skill set, and that's one of the reasons we haven't won in over 100 years. He's not flashy or tall, but he's fundamentally sound and gets the job done. He doen't strike out, has speed and is a great outfielder. That's how ball players were in the 80"s. He's a throwback, a real gutsy ball player who hustles. Couldnt they tell he's a real ball player by the fans reactions. They love him, He's the leadoff man we need right now instead of kosuke. That's why the cubs can't win. They cant evaluate and recognize talent. And lets hope that this quade over ryno decison doesn't haunt them, cuz so far this year I've seen the same lovable loser club that finds every way possible to lose games. I feel ryno was the right guy cuz he's played the game and knows what it takes to rebound from losses. And who believes that marlon byrd can hit third? Cuz i sure don't. All in all we shouldve gave fuld a shot instead of kosuke and reed johnson.
This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of SB Nation or Al Yellon, managing editor (unless it's a FanPost posted by Al). FanPost opinions are valued expressions of opinion by passionate and knowledgeable baseball fans.
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Baseball history is strewn with the bodies of guys who "killed" in April
Talk to me in September.
by bluekoolaide on Apr 12, 2011 10:52 AM CDT reply actions 8 recs
double rec.
i said it last night, Fuld is where he is supposed to be… cubs have no room for him, nor is needed, he had a good start. he’ll still finish at .250. love Sam and I hope he does really well and gets to play….but i dont regret getting rid of him.
"There had to be a place where the game could be fun again….that place is called Wrigley Field"---Andre Dawson
One thing you learned as a Cubs fan: when you bought your ticket, you could bank on seeing the bottom of the ninth. Joe Garagiola
They may have had no room for him
but they certainly had need of him. I am not going through it all again but what surprises me about everyone so convinced Fuld will just fold and be a crappy hitter is that he hit .299 the only other time he was allowed to have significant playing time. Obviously he is not going to have stats like last night often, but I think he will hit near .300 and with his other skills he will be a major asset to the Rays.
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either
by Doggie Stalker on Apr 12, 2011 11:48 AM CDT up reply actions
i hope so, i really do...but if we're basing our world series hopes on Fuld
we have to be worried.
"There had to be a place where the game could be fun again….that place is called Wrigley Field"---Andre Dawson
One thing you learned as a Cubs fan: when you bought your ticket, you could bank on seeing the bottom of the ninth. Joe Garagiola
This is snarky stuff I don't get
Fuld does not “suck” and he is a Major League Player despite what some others have posted in the past. To say that he would have been a good player for the Cubs is not the same as saying the Cubs would have won a World Series if they had him. If he does not in fact seriously injure himself I think he will have an excellent season. It is unfortunate the Cubs had no spot for him but he will benefit far more than the Cubs for finding a team that could not only have him on the roster at the start of the season, but play every day.
We don’t have to this stuff after every game. It was Dan who thought it would be funny to make fun of Fuld and my interest in him by starting to mock his every at bat last night (he stopped after the home run). So how bout a truce. Let’s check in with Fuld at the AS break.
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either
by Doggie Stalker on Apr 12, 2011 12:02 PM CDT up reply actions
How I Met Your Mother
took priority.
"The riches of the game are in the thrills, not the money." --Ernie Banks
Dan please, please keep doing those posts
It was really great last night.
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either
by Doggie Stalker on Apr 12, 2011 2:20 PM CDT up reply actions
The people bitching are mostly the same who think the Cubs can do no wrong....
Fuld is a leadoff type, hustling runner, and good fielder.
Things the Cubs don’t seem to care about.
For 2 years the Cubs had chances to play him but didn’t bother.
Casey M all over again….
Plus he was a THROW IN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Just given stuff away, Jim!!!!!!!!
Tom Ricketts approves!!!!
Jim only traded him because he wanted to do Sam a favor.
He’s a player’s GM!
GM's are in charge of Managers, not the other way around.
There is actually no question he is a players GM
I think we have ample evidence for that. As for Fuld, why not let a guy who is out of options, is unlikely to make the roster and has been a loyal soldier have a chance? We did not “give” him away because for those reasons he had little value anyway.
FYI do you think the Maddux “trade” to the Dodgers was done because it was a good deal?
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either
by Doggie Stalker on Apr 12, 2011 2:39 PM CDT up reply actions
No, it wasn't a good deal.
And you can claim Maddux would have been so pissed off if Hendry hadn’t traded him, but I disagree.
GM's are in charge of Managers, not the other way around.
You can't be serious
If the Cubs had kept Maddux from going to LA to get a draft pick, there is zero chance he would be working for the Cubs now. Boras even played “bad cop” and said this (well not about his never working for the Cubs, but how horrible it would be) Maddux said all the right stuff about doing whatever was best for the team, but he wanted out of the madhouse and onto a team going to the playoffs.
You think Hendry made the trade because he thought Izzy was better than a draft pick?
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either
by Doggie Stalker on Apr 12, 2011 2:44 PM CDT up reply actions
That's the exact problem
And there’s no point in turning this into an argument since you’re not a defender of Jim Hendry either, but it was a dumb trade and Izturis was a bust for the Cubs, the same way DeWitt (Maddux approved!) is looking to be a bust. Did it make the team better, or worse?
GM's are in charge of Managers, not the other way around.
Actually I would defend Hendry to the death on Maddux
There are things you do because they are right and help you in the long term. Holding Maddux “hostage” on the team from hell would not only have angered Maddux, it would have upset players in general. There are just some things you don’t do. Plenty of other bad moves but not that.
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either
by Doggie Stalker on Apr 12, 2011 2:54 PM CDT up reply actions
Boo hoo.
Team got worse. It was a dumb move by Hendry. What, getting his number retired wasn’t enough?
GM's are in charge of Managers, not the other way around.
Are you serious?
You do realize BECAUSE he was able to look ahead to the fact that Cubs team wasn’t going anywhere is why we now have Maddux, one of the smartest pitchers in the game of baseball in our front office?
It was pretty meaningless, though.
I don’t care that much about how trading Maddux was “the right thing to do.” I also don’t care that much about trading a starter — who was going to be a FA anyway — on a team that was on target to lose 90-plus.
Hendry should have gotten something more (or different) than Izturis. But it’s not like Maddux would have vaulted the ’06 Cubs into the playoffs had he been around for two more months.
Alas the Dodger knew the Cubs were in a spot
I think Hendry put on his good poker face and tried but no bites. The Dodgers had just made another trade giving up prospects so they did not have a lot left. Remember the trade happened literally AT the deadline so I think Hendry did try bluffing the Dodgers that he would hold out but it did not work.
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either
by Doggie Stalker on Apr 12, 2011 3:05 PM CDT up reply actions
Maddux might have made 10 more starts as a Cub.
And, actually, it freed up a roster spot for Rich Hill, whose performance in the second half of 2006 probably was important in the role he played in 2007.
No it wouldn't be
Team did not get worse FYI. At the time Izzy seemed like a decent idea and they needed an SS. They did not get Sandwich pick who may or may not have been any good.
Oh if you mean by worse Maddux might hav one a few games perhaps but even HE had lost interest and if they lost 92 games instead of 96 would it matter?
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either
by Doggie Stalker on Apr 12, 2011 3:03 PM CDT up reply actions
You and I are agreeing on a lot today, Jessica.
Maybe we should start talking about Silva again. :)
With Wells & Cashner
a month or so each, you might even miss him.
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either
by Doggie Stalker on Apr 12, 2011 3:05 PM CDT up reply actions
I don't take issue with trading Maddux.
I disagree that Izzy was a good idea.
GM's are in charge of Managers, not the other way around.
Agree with TJ 100%...
We let Fuld go and kept Reed FRICKIN’ Johnson for God’s sake. Again…not alot of thought went into assembling this team this year.
I've come to the conclusion that the two most important things in life are good friends and a good bullpen. ~Bob Lemon, 1981
Except that Fuld is a lefty and Reed is a righty, which is why they kept Johnson.
In a perfect world you keep Fuld. In MLB you don’t keep 3 left handed OFers.
You know who else usually finishes around .250-.260?
(HINT: he plays in right and his name rhymes with Kosuke Fukudome)
MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown
There are about 12million reasons why Fuld is better than Dome.
"I'll tell you what's helped me my entire life. I look at baseball as a game. It's something where people can go out, enjoy and have fun. Nothing more."
(the reference is to Dome's $12M salary and similar skillset.)
MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown
wow.
"There had to be a place where the game could be fun again….that place is called Wrigley Field"---Andre Dawson
One thing you learned as a Cubs fan: when you bought your ticket, you could bank on seeing the bottom of the ninth. Joe Garagiola
Actually ...
Kosuke’s making $13.5 million this season, http://mlbcontracts.blogspot.com/2005/01/chicago-cubs_112114177768677294.html.
Assuming his signing bonus was paid at the time of his signing in 2007 (which is a safe bet).
If they made the same Fuld would be here and Dome would not.
You would think if they could have thrown in Dome instead they would have, but then again this is the Cubs….
But that is true of ANY team
Dome is not Oliver Perez bad and Fuld is not the kind of player you dump a guy making 10 million for.
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either
by Doggie Stalker on Apr 12, 2011 2:47 PM CDT up reply actions
What's shocking is you're lack of intelligence
and original thought.
What’s next? more exclamation points and mocking?
Yawn. Try something new.
This is definitely my favorite rivalry.
GM's are in charge of Managers, not the other way around.
by shoemile on Apr 12, 2011 2:42 PM CDT up reply actions 2 recs
agreed
"There had to be a place where the game could be fun again….that place is called Wrigley Field"---Andre Dawson
One thing you learned as a Cubs fan: when you bought your ticket, you could bank on seeing the bottom of the ninth. Joe Garagiola
by epsilon on Apr 12, 2011 2:50 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
serenity now...
insanity later!!
"I’m not going to say a lot, because if you say the wrong the thing to me, then you (hanley) might wind up on the floor on your rear end," Dawson said with Tony Perez standing by his side in a coach’s office at Sun Life Stadium
Fuld has been as good in AAA,
As Dome has been in MLB. So if you mean he’s better while playing at a lower level, then maybe.
Dome has not been good in MLB.
He has occasionally been marginally above league average.
For the most part, he has been a drain on resources, and for long stretches, he has been among the worst players in either league.
MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown
Dome certainly hasn't been what everyone thought he would be....
but his MLB hitting line is very similar to Fuld’s minor league line. I see no real advantage of having Fuld over Dome. Dome has more power too.
The only spot I can see it is on defense. But it’s not like Dome is terrible on defense and costing alot of games or anything.
Fuld is more versatile (he can play center).
Also, he can hit lefties AND he can steal a base.
I’m not saying Fuld will be better than Kosuke with 100 percent certainty. I’m saying that Fuld has the potential to be more valuable because of his versatility.
You are correct. Husker is like talking to a wall......
If you would rather have Dome at this point, you are nuts…
Dome brings in millions in Japanese merchandise.
Like, 50-60 million a year.
GM's are in charge of Managers, not the other way around.
Fuld is better for the Cubs right now than Dome.
But the Cubs screwed up and gave him away.
Dome makes too much to get rid of and will be gone at the end of the season.
That is easy.
How is he better for the Cubs right now?
I don’t see it that way. I’d rather have a guy with more power over a guy who can play a little better defense.
Just my opinion.
It's not stupid. It's TELLING.
The Cubs had no faith in Kosuke against lefties AND they knew he needs a lot of rest.
That they had a guy like Fuld platooning with Kosuke shows how limited a player Kosuke really is — even if he’s not completely without value.
So they decide to platoon him with
another guy who can’t hit lefties?
Sounds pretty dumb to me. They obviously don’t see much in either player. They both are backups at best.
Sigh.
They didn’t have any other options, Husker. Johnson was hurt, and Kosuke and Fuld were the only two guys on the roster (IIRC) who could play center.
It wasn’t stupid. It was the only choice Lou had other than playing Kosuke every day — which he’s not capable of doing.
Wait...we're too LEFT HANDED NOW?
FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU…..
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Apr 12, 2011 3:05 PM CDT up reply actions
Lou is turning in his grave
"There had to be a place where the game could be fun again….that place is called Wrigley Field"---Andre Dawson
One thing you learned as a Cubs fan: when you bought your ticket, you could bank on seeing the bottom of the ninth. Joe Garagiola
seriously? je
"There had to be a place where the game could be fun again….that place is called Wrigley Field"---Andre Dawson
One thing you learned as a Cubs fan: when you bought your ticket, you could bank on seeing the bottom of the ninth. Joe Garagiola
No kidding
This is all based on $$$$$$$$$$$. Dome was a bad signing, Cubs got stuck and here we are.
Sam is a nice 4th outfielder, but there was no room. Now if Colvin fails, then this argument has legs.
Dome is not a terrible player
and no one was going to cut a guy making 12 million for Fuld so he could platoon with Colvin.
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either
by Doggie Stalker on Apr 12, 2011 2:41 PM CDT up reply actions
Sorry hard to keep those back end amounts straight.
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either
by Doggie Stalker on Apr 12, 2011 2:48 PM CDT up reply actions

Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.
by drewishdrewid on Apr 12, 2011 2:50 PM CDT up reply actions
That may be the worst/stupidest one I have ever seen that applied to.
You must have me confused with someone else, I have never been to Chicago.
[whispers] I sexually assaulted Scottie Pippen in 1997.
by DocPepper on Apr 14, 2011 2:40 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Agreed.
Kosuke isn’t terrible. But he’s so inconsistency, he has so many caveats — can’t hit lefties, can’t be moved around in the lineup, has to feel comfortable at a defensive position — that he limits the team’s options.
The fact that he has been a drain on resources is another matter (though he most certainly has). His limitations prompted a lot of bad reactive moves by Hendry — signing MB, signing Nady, etc.
He didn't hit lefties in 2009.
in 2008 hit hit them pretty well .276/.371/.354, and in 2010 he wasn’t exactly horrible against them. .262/.327/.524
I’m sure he could handle more at-bats against lefties.
I've gone around on this one before.
He had all of 50 PAs in 2010 — far from a decent sample size.
I’ve never been able to prove this, but my belief is that his success against them in 2008 occurred early in the season, before the league figured him out. If somebody knows how to get splits down to that level, I’d love to be proven wrong (or right).
My assumption is based on the fact that DeRosa got a lot of time in right against lefties in the second half of 2008.
Also ...
Kosuke was being platooned WITH Fuld in 2009 (I believe Johnson was hurt). In other words, Kosuke is so competent against lefties, that the lefty who is the subject of this thread was seen as a better bet against lefties.
Well I don't exactly trust alot of managers in the game today
to look at the stats and then make the correct decision based on them.
Fuld career vs lefties (small sample of course) .243/.349/.378
and Kosuke career vs lefties
.246/.349/.378
So ideally I wouldn’t want either. But If I had to chose I think I’d still take Dome. Just a preference I guess.
If they're both bad... you'd prefer Dome?
He’s old, can’t play center, is pretty lousy in right, and makes $13 million.
MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown
what's sammy's minor league HR numbers?
"There had to be a place where the game could be fun again….that place is called Wrigley Field"---Andre Dawson
One thing you learned as a Cubs fan: when you bought your ticket, you could bank on seeing the bottom of the ninth. Joe Garagiola
So why are you so sure Kosuke could handle more at-bats against lefties?
Lou and Quade — and, no offense, I trust their judgment over either of ours — think Kosuke can’t hit lefties.
Oh I'm not sure...
I think Fuld and Dome are both backups. But if I had to chose. I chose power over speed.
Dome playing only as a backup hits maybe 5 HR...Not even close to the defense and speed that Fuld brings...
I would argue he may have more than 5.
Less playing time seems to benefit Dome. I think he could do better than Fuld in a backup role.
I don't think Sori is a good fielder....
I think he tries harder than people give him credit for. And that’s true, I don’t think Aram is lazy, You don’t make it 14 years in MLB by being lazy.
Aramis can definitely be lazy at times.
More so than a lot of players. He’s never been considered Charlie Hustle.
And I think fans (or at least BCBers) are pretty fair to Soriano — mainly because it’s clear he’s a good guy who works very hard. I don’t think people question his effort. His brains, maybe.
Yeah.
To claim Aramis hasn’t had his bouts of laziness is…not true.
GM's are in charge of Managers, not the other way around.
Well of course he has....
my issue is when people like TJ over exaggerate his actions, and use him not running full speed to first as a reason he’s no any good.
I still haven’t been shown any numbers that prove jogging to first now and then costs the team anything over the course of a season.
Rami is way more valuable for his great ability to drive in run consistently.
I noticed you didn't mention defense.
Aramis does more positive than negative. But he’s got a bigger lazy streak in him than I’d like.
No no, Husker is right!!! Aram always busts his ass!!! And if he does not, it never hurts the team!!!
Prove to me it hurts the team in
any measurable way. Just prove it once and I will change my opinion.
can you use Sori's example of walking
out of the batters box instead of running, only to hit the worlds most dominate single?
"There had to be a place where the game could be fun again….that place is called Wrigley Field"---Andre Dawson
One thing you learned as a Cubs fan: when you bought your ticket, you could bank on seeing the bottom of the ninth. Joe Garagiola
I'll take that as a no.
You don’t have any data to prove you’re point. So it’s most likely irrelevant.
Good job TJ.
Statistic:
Aram’s lazy factor is a 6.5. League average is 4.8.
GM's are in charge of Managers, not the other way around.
I'm not listening to you! You only believe in Science. That's probably why we never win!
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Apr 12, 2011 3:17 PM CDT up reply actions
How could anybody prove what you're asking?
Do you have numbers to prove your theory?
He can't do any of this....Elgato....
Its hilarious to watch it go on….
He is a Dusty loving excuse maker, who only fights for the latin players. Has no problems with laziness and does not see how it hurts a team. It is totally amazing. Yet it is fun to battle with such stupidity because it is so easy. Drew does not like me and he isn’t even stepping up to defend Husker’s crap! Amazing!
Nothing for me to prove......
I’m not making the claims that jogging to first hurts the team.
Support you’re claims.
Where?
How has Aramis Jogging to first cost the team runs. And how many runs specifically? So we can figure out how many wins it is costing the team overall.
Husker. I never MADE those points.
You are apparently confusing me with TJ. And I hate exclamation points.
I said Aramis has more of a lazy streak than a lot of players, that Fuld is more versatile than Kosuke, than Soriano is a good guy who just isn’t what he used to be, and that Kosuke is a limited player.
At no point have I made definitive declarations about how Aramis has cost the team games.
lol
Well we were talking about different things then. I was only talking about Aramis. TJ seems to want to act like he’s hurting the team in some way and that irritates me, especially when he has no proof. I thought you were continuing his argument for him. lol
I’m done.
No, I was just asking you for proof.
I think TJ plays too much in absolutes. But I think you were asking for evidence that is impossible to get.
I was asking for that.
Just waiting for TJ to admit he doesn’t have it. So I will continue to argue with him about it since he wants to continue spewing false information. That’s how some fans begin to have the same false ideas. They hear it yelled about constantly by guys like TJ.
I'd start looking in the mirror a little harder, Husker.
You make some declarative statements without a lot of evidence or couching. TJ doesn’t exactly mince words, but neither do you.
I say this not to start a fight. But that has been my observation. FWIW, I do agree — and said this earlier — that Aramis is a net positive, if an annoying net positive at times.
You're making claims just like they are...
You’re claiming jogging to first doesn’t cost the team runs. Prove it… do it… do it…
You can’t twist the argument around and claim you don’t have to prove anything. Your theory is just as unfounded as theirs.
Do you really not understand that YOU are also making a claim??
Your claim that him jogging does not hurt us is equally impossible to prove.
Get over it, you both believe something different that numbers can NEVER prove.
The difference is, I'm not saying it hurts or helps anything.
So when people use terms like lazy to take something away from him it’s pointless.
is this a back handed agreement with both TJ and husker?
i do think Sori tries, he’s just not that good in the field, and i dont think rami was lazy, but he is now.
"There had to be a place where the game could be fun again….that place is called Wrigley Field"---Andre Dawson
One thing you learned as a Cubs fan: when you bought your ticket, you could bank on seeing the bottom of the ninth. Joe Garagiola
more importantly...
since none of your complaining can change this face…you should stop.
Drew taught me this.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Apr 12, 2011 3:13 PM CDT up reply actions
anybody have the video of soriano admiring that single?
"There had to be a place where the game could be fun again….that place is called Wrigley Field"---Andre Dawson
One thing you learned as a Cubs fan: when you bought your ticket, you could bank on seeing the bottom of the ninth. Joe Garagiola
We get it... you're waiting for TJ to prove something
And he’s having fun egging you on – and you keep going for it.
Just step back from the conversation for everyones sanity please, because TJ certainly wont.
You can't prove this.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Apr 12, 2011 3:26 PM CDT up reply actions
I believe I can, because I doubt it will stop.
How many more posts until my point is proven? 10?
You need a control group...
and more than one thread with repeatable outcomes.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Apr 12, 2011 3:28 PM CDT up reply actions
That's fine
I’ll back away. TJ knows he doesn’t have any evidence to support his ideas.
And since he has no argument, I’ll enjoy his exclamation points and mocking posts instead. LOL
I'll take a stab at it.
The average runner takes roughly 4.4 seconds home to first. The average ground-out play takes 3.8 seconds to complete, with “difficult” plays, (according to fangraphs) taking 4.1-4.6 seconds on average. So, if Ramirez, a slow runner to begin with, is only running at 90%, it will take at least 4.88 seconds. And probably longer since he has below average speed to start with.
Last year, Ramirez made 80 ground ball outs. With the league average of 16% of ground-outs being “difficult” plays, or 13 plays. Using the average time to take to complete a “difficult” play at 4.4 seconds, it is a reasonable estimate that he cost the Cubs 8 hits last year, or 2.3 runs. And that was in a year where he lost about 100 ab’s to injury
"Enough foreplay- let's get crackin'"- Fred Garvin
by davidalanu on Apr 12, 2011 3:57 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Like Sweetie Pie By The Stone Alliance Everbody Knows I'm Known For Droping Science!
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Apr 12, 2011 4:01 PM CDT up reply actions
Hey, now, there was one or two real stats in there.
eh, maybe just one.
"Enough foreplay- let's get crackin'"- Fred Garvin
dropping science
dropping history, with a whole leap of style and intelligency.
"There had to be a place where the game could be fun again….that place is called Wrigley Field"---Andre Dawson
One thing you learned as a Cubs fan: when you bought your ticket, you could bank on seeing the bottom of the ninth. Joe Garagiola
They are actually somewhat similar
Dome has more power and Fuld more speed but both are plus defenders with excellent plate patience, HOWEVER Husker, if your choice is between a guy making 13.5 million in the last year of his contract or a guy making $400,000 you can keep cheaply for a few more years , it is kind of a no brainer. That of course means you had a choice. There is no question Hendry shopped Dome, but no takers.
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either
by Doggie Stalker on Apr 12, 2011 2:51 PM CDT up reply actions
Key distinction, though.
Fuld can play three outfield positions well. Kosuke can’t.
They are both plus-defenders, but Kosuke is a more limited plus-defender.
You don't have to tell me Fuld's good points
but again no team is dumping Dome for Fuld
I sincerely doubt even without Dome, that Fuld would have gotten a chance to platoon much less play regularly
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either
by Doggie Stalker on Apr 12, 2011 2:56 PM CDT up reply actions
Also, Kosuke was a minus defender last year.
MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown
But Kosuke doesn't have much power.
The guy is a 12 HR threat. If he had ever hit 20, I’d be with you.
I don't know
I think in less playing time Dome would be a pretty valuable bench player. He seems to hit much better in limited playing time.
As a bench player ...
don’t you think it’s important to be able to do a lot of things?
Okay, that literally makes no sense.
You want versatility on your bench, not people limited to one spot.
And maybe Fuld is just a Choi in the pan.
You might end up being right. But Fuld won’t have to be THAT good of a hitter to be better than Kosuke.
That's entirely the point...
Fukudome and Fuld are almost the EXACT SAME offensively:
Fuld: .264/.371/.396/.767
Fukudome: .260/.370/.409/.779
The differences are almost non existent. I would personally prefer a 4th OFer with more speed, more versatility, who plays better defense, and is more likely to get an XBH. Just my 2 cents.
I would wonder about sample size.
But I would take Fuld over Kosuke, as well.
I understand it's a small sample size, but it's almost 200 PA, so it's not like it's nothing.
And you can also argue that Fuld is young and will only learn as he gets older.
Point is, outside of the money, there’s no good reason to keep Fukudome over Fuld.
You're not gonna hear a defense of Kosuke from me.
I’m still not sold on Fuld. I’ll see where he is in a month. However, if given the choice as a backup, I’d take the guy with more versatility, upside and a future with the team.
And I'm the exact same way.
I’m not terribly sad to see him go, because I like seeing him get the chance to succeed and I don’t think he’ll ever be much more than a 4th OFer.
But it would be nice to not be spending 13.5M on that spot for once.
Of course, Fuld brings some things to the table that Kosuke doesn't.
Speed, for one. And the ability to play center.
oboy.
I like Fuld. After all, he’s a good Jewish Boy who loves his mother and went to an Ivy League School — but he was blocked here.
I’m really glad Fuld is getting his shot. I’m very happy for him. I hope he gets a WS ring. But it’s week TWO. Let’s see what happens when he’s at 310 PAs, instead of 31.
Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.
Sorry Drew but a bit of a mistake
Twice in the last day you have said he went to Ivy League School but technically he did not, he want to Stanford which of course is a very good school but not in the Ivy League. Also he is half Jewish and not practicing. I am sure he loves his mother. He had all his family and friends at the game last night which I think is kind of cook
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either
by Doggie Stalker on Apr 12, 2011 11:00 AM CDT up reply actions
I thoguht
he went to Yale. Sorry.
His mother is jewish, right? Then he’s jewish, or so everyone tells me I am.
Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.
by drewishdrewid on Apr 12, 2011 11:10 AM CDT up reply actions
Nope his father is Jewish
I don’t think he has any strong religious views. He got married in a Catholic Church which I assume was do to with his wife but I have no idea.
To be fair he is considered “Jewish” . A lot of Jews myself included have no religious views.
Fuld has been respectful of what we will call his cultural heritage. For what is worth the majority of current Jewish MLB players are half Jewish on the fathers side ( Braun, Kinsler
Ike Davis). I digress a little but one of the interesting cases was Mike Lieberthal of the Philies, his father was Jewish but he was raised a devout Christian and asked not be considered a Jewish player. He was not being insulting it is just how he felt and I thought it was disrespectful of groups to still list him as Jewish player.
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either
by Doggie Stalker on Apr 12, 2011 11:17 AM CDT up reply actions
I thought being Jewish
was more about the fact that your ancestors came from “Israel” (in quotes because of the whole no official Israel from BC until 1946 thing) and not as much about religion…
by hansman1982 on Apr 12, 2011 11:26 AM CDT up reply actions
Well that is how many of us think of it
but not everyone. Under Jewish “law” you are only considered Jewish if your mother is Jewish. Again I think it is up to each person to define himself which is why I found the Lieberthal treatment depressing. Equally interesting was the case of David Newhan. Both his parents were Jewish, but he became a vocal born again Christian, basically a real Jew for Jesus ( Sorry but most of them have no Jewish heritage at all).
He was very proud of his Jewish heritage but there was some grumbling that he should not be considered “Jewish”. Very few of the current Jewish players are "religious " in the sense of say going to High Holiday services. I would guess that the Marquis, Grabow Youkalis and Michael Valencia do, but I can’t say for sure.
Short answer is that most American Jews see it as a cultural heritage and not just a religion.
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either
by Doggie Stalker on Apr 12, 2011 11:38 AM CDT up reply actions
I see thanks for the clarification
since you brought him up, you are welcome for the “forgivness” the Pope gave you for Jesus’ murder…I guess we can bury the hatchet after 2000 years…
by hansman1982 on Apr 12, 2011 11:43 AM CDT up reply actions
that's got to be odd
explaining ethnicity Vs. Religious creed.
"There had to be a place where the game could be fun again….that place is called Wrigley Field"---Andre Dawson
One thing you learned as a Cubs fan: when you bought your ticket, you could bank on seeing the bottom of the ninth. Joe Garagiola
Very odd indeed
but I am used to it.
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either
by Doggie Stalker on Apr 12, 2011 11:49 AM CDT up reply actions
are there any other
Religion as an ethnicity to even compare it to?
"There had to be a place where the game could be fun again….that place is called Wrigley Field"---Andre Dawson
One thing you learned as a Cubs fan: when you bought your ticket, you could bank on seeing the bottom of the ninth. Joe Garagiola
Nope
I think most of us non religious Jews see it as both a culture and a set of values but not based on based on belief in God.
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either
by Doggie Stalker on Apr 12, 2011 12:15 PM CDT up reply actions
Judaism
started as a “tribe.” So there is going to be a ethnic/racial link that other religions don’t really have. Of course, inter-relgion marriages have diluted that to the point where many believe that link is irrelevant. A lot of people think that is also leading to a the diminishing of the “culture” and “values” you referred to. (Had an interesting conversation at a “lunch and learn” about this topic).
PS nobody who really wanted an MLB career would go to Yale
I think David Cone is that last Yalie to make the MLB. If you want to got to an Ivy League school and play in the MLB you go to Princeton, Dartmouth or possibly Univ. of PA. He is the first major leaguer since the 30s to have gone to Exeter for HS.
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either
by Doggie Stalker on Apr 12, 2011 11:25 AM CDT up reply actions
Ron Darling went to Yale
I don’t believe Cone went to college
From Ron Darlings Wikipedia
Born in Honolulu, Hawaii to a Hawaiian-Chinese mother and French-Canadian father, Darling speaks fluent Chinese and French. After growing up in Millbury, Massachusetts, he attended St John’s High School in Shrewsbury, Massachusetts and later Yale University, managing a dual major in French and Southeast Asian history.
He was also in Shallow Hal
OOPS wrong Met
I knew it was one of them.
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either
by Doggie Stalker on Apr 12, 2011 11:39 AM CDT up reply actions
Blocked by whom? Reed Johnson? And manager failures to understand the meaning of the work "rotation?"
blocked by Colvin
Byrd, Dome and Soriano.
There’s no way Sam Fuld would have gotten 31 PAs by now as the 5th outfielder.
Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.
by drewishdrewid on Apr 12, 2011 11:37 AM CDT up reply actions
This is absolutely true
and I don’t even think he would have made the team because he was left handed. It seems silly not to take the best player because you don’t want 3 left handed OF but that is most likely what would have happened. Also Fuld tended to have great off seasons in the Fall and Winter leagues but very poor Spring Trainings. Basically the 5th OF job was his to lose last year and when Colvin hit nearly .500 and Fuld hit something like .130, he lost it , BUT per several thousand posts last year I think this was a mistake. Colvin absolutely earned his spot but Fuld should have been on the roster over Nady who even the Cubs admitted was not 100%. After that unless the Cubs had been able to trade Dome, Fuld’s days with the Cubs were numbered.
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either
by Doggie Stalker on Apr 12, 2011 11:43 AM CDT up reply actions
Sam Fuld...
… is a fine fourth or fifth outfielder. If he hit righthanded, he’d still be a Cub.
Check out Chicago sports coverage at SB Nation Chicago
Well...
Agree.
On a day when Sori and Soto Starts
Left Handed: Half a Hill, DeWitt, Colvin or Fuke.
Right Handed: Half a Hill, Baker, and Johnson
If you added Fuld in that mix and removed Johnson, then you only have one right handed hitter and that certainly creates match up problems late in the game. Whether Hill can hit or not, you typically don’t want to have to use your backup catcher to PH unless you absolutely have to and it would be at the expense of one of your batter hitters.
"All I want is food and creative love" - Rusted Root
by TheRiot Police on Apr 12, 2011 12:37 PM CDT up reply actions
Well its tough for him to get an every day job
When he has to take one from Soriano, Byrd, and Kosuke, and beat out Ty for the 4th spot. I’m thrilled to see his hot start, I hope he keeps it up since I always enjoy seeing quality former Cubbies doing well with other clubs (as long as it doesn’t directly harm us)
~Ronald Reagan has held the two most demeaning jobs in the country; President of the United States and radio broadcaster for the Chicago Cubs~ George F. Will
Believe it or not I hesitate to respond to this
but while I think it was very unfortunate the Cubs could not find a spot for Fuld, trading him was best for everyone. He had very little chance of making the roster and he would at best be a 5th OF used mainly to go in for Sori in the 8th & 9th or to pinch run. What I have said often is that it is a problem that a player with Fuld’s skill set ( defense, speed and smarts as a runner, discipline at the plate and hitting for contact) is not valued by the Cubs.
I won’t bore you with the details, but there were a lot of reasons besides not appreciating his skill set that Fuld could not make the roster. All the bad luck he had with the Cubs had been reversed with the Rays and even I never thought he would get a chance to play everyday. I think he may really get to be a regular leadoff man.
Root for Fuld and regret that the Cubs don’t value things like defense and plate patience but it is was absolutely for the best that he was traded He would never had a chance like this with the Cubs.
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either
by Doggie Stalker on Apr 12, 2011 10:57 AM CDT reply actions
He probably would've wrecked himself with the Cubs
Running into brick walls is a great way to get injured, or so I’ve read.
~Ronald Reagan has held the two most demeaning jobs in the country; President of the United States and radio broadcaster for the Chicago Cubs~ George F. Will
by unretrofied93 on Apr 12, 2011 10:59 AM CDT up reply actions
Sammy Fuld is.....
fundamentally sound
a throwback
gutsy
hustles
OK we get it, he’s a white guy
by Kooter on Apr 12, 2011 10:59 AM CDT reply actions 8 recs
???????
What does that mean?
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either
by Doggie Stalker on Apr 12, 2011 11:01 AM CDT up reply actions
I don't think thats a serious post......
~Ronald Reagan has held the two most demeaning jobs in the country; President of the United States and radio broadcaster for the Chicago Cubs~ George F. Will
by unretrofied93 on Apr 12, 2011 11:02 AM CDT up reply actions
Just a joke
If you listen to various announcers they all seem to have the same descriptors for small white guys (think David Eckstein) …..scrappy, gritty, plays the game the right way, blue collar.
Much in the same way Matt Szczur is a "Wes Welker type", and Shark is an "Ed McCaffrey type".
Possession receiver. Heady. Gritty. Cerebral. A real student of the game. Gutsy. Scrappy.
If the WR Shark had more melanin, he’d be a “long” “athletic freak” who “stretches the field”, “jumps out of the gym”, and “wins matchups with his athleticism.”
Ken Griffey Jr. is an “amazing natural talent”…. Frank Thomas was a “freak of nature”, while Jeff Bagwell was a “gritty gamer” and Craig Biggio just “outworked everybody”.
Heck, it was about a year before people stopped saying that Byron Leftwich could “win games with his legs”. The guy was practically immobile.
These code words are definitely a convention that should be made fun of. “Wayne Chrebet is gritty. Derek Jeter and Blake Griffin are half-gritty, on their mother’s side.”
MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown
by D98 on Apr 12, 2011 11:38 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
I'm more
noshy on my mother’s side. And presbyterian on my father’s.
Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.
by drewishdrewid on Apr 12, 2011 12:08 PM CDT up reply actions
I think that's half-gritty, half "cerebral".
MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown
that’s like having sand in one shoe.
Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.
by drewishdrewid on Apr 12, 2011 1:55 PM CDT up reply actions
Sorry Al, just messing around
It’s a running joke with my friends and I when we listen to games. Almost always when an announcer ever uses the above words to describe a player….it’s always for smaller white guys.
Exactly
no flag on the play post. It’s making fun of sports announcers, and the OP.
No one should be untouchable on this roster unless his name is Eliot Ness...or Starlin Castro.
Seriously.
Try to find any of these descriptors used by an announcer or writer for any person of color.
This is true and has been forever.
And announcers love to compare players to other players of their race or nationality. I remember Mike Harkey being called the next Bob Gibson but never say, the next Sam McDowell or Don Drysdale. Of course, with all the injuries he turned out being the next Scott Sanderson.
I also remember Pedro being compared to Juan Marichal but never a white pitcher.
And HOFers can also get the raw, gritty, hard working tag.
The most blatant example of their love for the great white player was Pete Rose. You would think the guy had no athletic skill whatsoever and just willed himself to get the most hits in the history of baseball. Don’t get me wrong, Rose did work hard. But hard work alone doesn’t make you one of the best hitters in baseball.
Rose’s combination of media cooperation as a player, not looking smooth and so, in their eyes, not looking natural like say, Frank Robinson, and being a complete hot dog – so many of his head-first slides/dives were unnecessary, he didn’t just catch a pop-up, he’d snap it out of the air etc… endeared him to the white guys in the booth and writing in the papers.
Gary Carter, a shameless self promotor, was another the white media adored for his gritty play and tireless hard work. Teammates not so thrilled, writers and announcers – over the moon.
I have color
its a white, pasty color. but color nonetheless
#10 You will be missed.
by Bricks and Ivy on Apr 12, 2011 12:42 PM CDT up reply actions
Lucky
I’m damn near translucent. It’s been a long winter.
If he played second/short....
… he’d be scrappy.
I think I speak for everyone here when I say, "Wait, what the hell are you talking about?"
Let's see how Sammy is doing come June
I still don’t think he is better than any of the Cubs top 4 OF, so I don’t see where there was room for him on this team. Especially since he is LH and 2 of the 4 Cubs OF were also LH.
And I think there is a lot more to it than just that the Cubs “don’t value” the things that Fuld is good at.
You're going to get killed for this post, but you're pretty much right.
Fuld > Fukudome
Yeah, yeah, we haven’t seen him play an entire season yet to “prove” he can hit .258 at the big league level like kosuke can…blah, blah, spare us. The Cubs once again spent themselves into a trap and compounded it by failing to identify a sunk cost.
by Jerry Mumphrey on Apr 12, 2011 11:16 AM CDT reply actions
can we just have ONE day w/o a knee-jerk fanpost???
"I’m not going to say a lot, because if you say the wrong the thing to me, then you (hanley) might wind up on the floor on your rear end," Dawson said with Tony Perez standing by his side in a coach’s office at Sun Life Stadium
I'm personally waiting for the "WHY DID WE LET JAKE FOX" go post
guess I’ll just wait until tomorrow
WHY DID WE GET RID OF RONNY CEDENO OMG HE'S THE STARTER FOR THE PIRATES NOW!!!!!1!1!11!
"We're young and dumb and ready to go throw strikes." James Russell
Well since he seems to permanently in Buck Showalter's doghouse
you may have to wait longer than that. As much as Maddon loves Fuld is as much as Showalter hates Fox.
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either
by Doggie Stalker on Apr 12, 2011 11:50 AM CDT up reply actions
Actually Maddon is the smart one.
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either
by Doggie Stalker on Apr 12, 2011 12:33 PM CDT up reply actions
What do you mean, we will see?
How stupid are you? can you not see that Maddon smart enough to take a chance on a guy and leave him out there when he is producing?
WOW
did he (basically) hit for the cycle last night too???
the heck you say…
he’s an MVP candidate fo’ sure and the 9 ex-cubs on the “hustling” orioles are certainly WS bound!!!
:/
"I’m not going to say a lot, because if you say the wrong the thing to me, then you (hanley) might wind up on the floor on your rear end," Dawson said with Tony Perez standing by his side in a coach’s office at Sun Life Stadium
Whew, at first I feared Sam Fuld had taken up murder as a hobby in St. Pete...
Glad to see it’s just another over the top fanpost!
I called it in the game thread last night
I knew there would be a post about freakin Sam Fuld today
Keep that Q Train rollin' in '11. Let's win it for Ronnie.
Daddygumption thought strongly enough
to make this his first post in four years of BCB.
"There had to be a place where the game could be fun again….that place is called Wrigley Field"---Andre Dawson
One thing you learned as a Cubs fan: when you bought your ticket, you could bank on seeing the bottom of the ninth. Joe Garagiola
So cuz he gets a fan reaction he is a ballplayer LOL
If thats the case every Cub ever is a ballplayer.
1. That is their job title
2. Every Cub player gets fan reaction at one point either a welcoming reaction or good reaction on their field play
"Women...you can't live without them, and they can't pee standing up." Rube Baker
Why need scouts then, put them on the field if they get cheered u have ur next franchise player
"Women...you can't live without them, and they can't pee standing up." Rube Baker
Age 29 is a peak age for power/OBS skills..
I would feel pretty comfortable in predicting a 0.800 OPS for Fuld this year; this team will not get 0.800 out of the leadoff spot this year. His defense is worth at least a win per season and probably more as a corner OF.
I'll eat my hat if Fuld has an OPS over .800 this year.
In over 400 PA.
mmmmm...hats....

As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Apr 12, 2011 4:06 PM CDT up reply actions
To say anything other than "Sam Fuld is off to a hot start" is a bit, um, premature.
That’s akin to writing a FanPost about Pujols’ being past his prime due to his cold start in 2011. Before this season Fuld had 150-some PA at the MLB level to a success rate of OPS+ 85.
Perhaps for the Fuld-lovers, we can agree that Jimbo shouldn’t have made the trade in the first place?
"The riches of the game are in the thrills, not the money." --Ernie Banks
No the trade was good
and I still believe Hendry initiated the idea since Fuld had almost no chance of making the team.
On the Cubs Fuld is at best the 5th OF used mainly for defensive back up for Sori or pinch running.
He gets maybe 8-10 starts and 75 ABs. If you recall I was HAPPPY the day of the trade for just those reasons. Fuld has caught all the breaks in Tampa, he never got with the Cubs and much of it IS timing and luck, but whatever works.
I am actually hoping to be able to do a fan post entittled “I Was Wrong About Fuld” in say July. Even my wildest dreams I did not see him starting every day. So if Fuld is playing regularly with good numbers by July will you post one with the same title?
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either
by Doggie Stalker on Apr 12, 2011 2:27 PM CDT up reply actions
DS did you hear the Tim Krkspellcheck (i think it was)
interview Fuld last night, who said, i got a chance with chicago because patterson was late to stretches, and i get a chance with tampa bay because manny retired…some body had some sunshine shine his way…
"There had to be a place where the game could be fun again….that place is called Wrigley Field"---Andre Dawson
One thing you learned as a Cubs fan: when you bought your ticket, you could bank on seeing the bottom of the ninth. Joe Garagiola
Some of that was odd
The Patterson thing is true but it only got him up in Sept of 07 when he had the great catch but no hits and it took him an injury to RJ to get back well over a year later in 09. He was generally snakebit with the Cubs. Injuries at the wrong time, being left handed and Colvin going on fire in ST.
I find the Manny comment a bit odd. His break came because of the Longoria injury. He was starting BEFORE Manny retired and since he was hitting and no one else but Upton was he was likely staying in. However he has been charmed with the Rays, Longoria, Manny and the bad hitting and suddendly he is Super Sam. As much crap as he is getting here the Rays blog is freaking out over him and so is their entire fan base
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either
by Doggie Stalker on Apr 12, 2011 3:11 PM CDT up reply actions
Rays fans freaking out?
So like, the two of them high fived?
GM's are in charge of Managers, not the other way around.
Are there more Devil Rays fans or Marlins fans?
Or is this question rhetorical?
"The riches of the game are in the thrills, not the money." --Ernie Banks
a Ray's fan friend of mine
was excited about opening day, and i told her about Sam Fuld, she hasnt shut up about him since. I’m glad he’s with the Rays. i like watching the kid play.
"There had to be a place where the game could be fun again….that place is called Wrigley Field"---Andre Dawson
One thing you learned as a Cubs fan: when you bought your ticket, you could bank on seeing the bottom of the ninth. Joe Garagiola
I have been in touch with a guy who does a blog
about Jewish Player about Fuld for some time and as it happens he lives in Tampa and is a Rays fan. He is really having a blast. He was incredelous when I told him Fuld had been traded there ( he knew about the trade generally but remember Fuld was a last minute throw in)
The Rays SB Nation blog is going totally nuts for Fuld. I actually have not posted there yet, but I am sur I would be at home.
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either
by Doggie Stalker on Apr 12, 2011 3:30 PM CDT up reply actions
Sure is a lot of pointless dribble in this thread
I like it.
"Hey.....Cubs win!!!" ---Harry
"Swung on belted!!!"---Chip
yes....but let's add moar...

As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Apr 12, 2011 3:43 PM CDT up reply actions
I'm not going to greatly miss Sam Fuld.
But, the disappointing thing is: we had a couple of players in our system who are making big contributions to their current teams (Fuld and McGehee), but the Cubs didn’t give them proper opportunity in Chicago.
Both players would make the Cubs a better team. Fuld instead of RJ, and McGehee, who would’ve filled in perfectly while ARam missed a huge chunk of time in 2009.
"You win because of the quarterback. We have to get that position stabilized. We're fixated on that." -- Jerry Angelo (12.30.2008)
Jerry Angelo trades for Jay Cutler! (4.2.2009)
McGehee is by far the bigger mystery
He was cut when he did not have to be , but in fairness unlike Fuld one had very litttle indication that he would make it on an MLB roster. Nobody even noticed or cared when he was let go and he had a great season in position the Cubs really needed help in.
Go figure
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either
by Doggie Stalker on Apr 12, 2011 3:44 PM CDT up reply actions
Like I said the other day ...
Jim Hendry has had SO many arguable-but-somewhat-logical decisions blow up in his face. Frankly, it applies to what you and I were talking about in the other thread about Gorzo.
Even those who argued against that trade could never have figured that the Cubs’ fourth and fifth starters would go down ON THE SAME DAY.
Would it have made much difference if they went down two weeks apart
or Cashner just sucked? Again you can never have too much depth at SP.
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either
by Doggie Stalker on Apr 12, 2011 3:52 PM CDT up reply actions
Although I understand where you're coming from...
If you are able to trade from a major strength (depth) and cover a glaring weakness (Power hitting lefty OFer with a high ceiling), you take that risk 100% of the time.
You're just spouting a truism.
And, yes, in both situations you outlined, it would have made a big difference.
If only one of them were hurt right now, Coleman would be on the club and we would be fine. Casey pitched better than Garza did against the Brewers, and was decent last season.
If Wells were the first one hurt, Coleman and Cashner would have pitched for two weeks. Then, Cashner would have gone down, but the amount of time with Coleman as the fourth starter and Davis or somebody else at No. 5 would have been minimal.
Now, if Cashner got hurt and THEN Wells got hurt, there wouldn’t be much of a difference. But we’re getting so far into hypotheticals that my head hurts.
If Cashner had flat sucked, Coleman would have been called up to take his place.
As bdlugz points out, acquiring Burgess was a decent calculated risk.
So you are assuming one of two pitchers so washed up
they had no other offers even minor league ones would be good to go in two weeks and as good or better than Gorzo? No that is NOT a good risk
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either
by Doggie Stalker on Apr 12, 2011 4:07 PM CDT up reply actions
I'm not sure I understand the point you're making.
But if I do, I think you’re arguing that the guy they would get to fill in after the Wells and Cashner injuries wouldn’t be as good as Gorzo.
I don’t dispute that. My point is that Wells and Cashner going down simultaneously has a bigger effect than if the injuries were a couple weeks apart because the Doug Davis/Russ Ortiz type who would fill in would make fewer starts.
You asked if it would make a big difference. I think it would.
I think the difference is VERY small
basically it gives a washed up guy who has not pitched professionaly at any level this year two weeks to get up to speed so OK better than the same day but not much.
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either
by Doggie Stalker on Apr 12, 2011 4:24 PM CDT up reply actions
Then we're just not going to agree, Jessica.
But you’re not going to convince me that Jim Hendry doesn’t understand the value of pitching depth because he traded away one of five realistic options for two rotation spots. Or, really, one of four options for one spot, if you assume that Wells was basically a lock.
Again, I can see why he could have kept Gorzo because LEFTIES are valuable. But the Cubs were smart in that they traded from strength — my turn to use a truism — and they were just exceedingly unlucky that in the span of three weeks, Cashner and Wells got hurt and Silva was so bad that he had to be released.
I don’t throw the luck card to defend Hendry very often. But I think it’s applicable here.
Looper and Welly were not realistic options
and Silva was risky so you have only one semi-reliable reserve. Bad planning.
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either
by Doggie Stalker on Apr 12, 2011 4:34 PM CDT up reply actions
Silva was so risky ...
that you were willing to give him more rope than anybody on this site for weeks. You and I sparred about this a lot, Jessica. You are now into entering inconsistency.
The risk of keeping a guy you owe a lot of money
and who has had very good success as recently is last year is just a bit higher than trading a starter for prospect when you your depth is not there. The irony is that we could hardly be worse if we had kept Silva. I don’t think releasing Silva was horrible, but I did not think it was great either. I can’t get why it is inconisistant to argue that it was worth giving Silva another shot and be against trading Gorzo?
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either
by Doggie Stalker on Apr 12, 2011 4:58 PM CDT up reply actions
I'm not going to debate Silva on his merits again with you.
Here are your two conflicting positions:
- In March, you said the Cubs shouldn’t write him off because he was good in the first half of 2010.
- Today, you say that the Cubs SHOULD have written him off in their own planning. Direct quote: “Silva was risky … Bad planning.”
I dont think its inconsistent
to say that they should give him a shot but to not count on him until he comes through for you
But the Cubs weren't only counting on Silva.
They were counting on two of Silva, Cashner, Wells, Coleman and then the second-tier guys AFTER they traded Gorzo.
To blame Hendry for being short-sighted when he kept four guys to fill two jobs and one of the guys was one whom you say should be given a chance/is evidence of poor planning because he’s risky seems inconsistent to me.
Therein lies the problem.
The Cubs spend so much money, prospects, time and effort doing things that are “arguable-but-somewhat-logical.” They have a fatal attraction to 2nd tier stars and endeavor to pay all of them 3/4 of what the top talent is making.
If they’d dedicated half as much money and resources over the last 8 years to “identifying and acquiring top-end talent”, they’d be a different, and better, ballclub. And their homegrown resources would have filled in the gaps.
MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown
Totally agree.
And, to further your argument, it’s easy to fall into this as a habit. You don’t have the money or the prospects to acquire Adrian Gonzalez or Carl Crawford, so you spend good but not great money on Marlon Byrd, Carlos Pena, et. al and give up a ton of prospects for Matt Garza.
In Casey's defense -
He had just posted a 90 RBI season at AAA with a .296 / .345 /.429 slash line when he got his walking papers.
It’s completely mystifying.
But seriously, that’s at least as much as Fuld ever showed.
MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown
Not really because unlike Fuld McGehee showed Zip at the major league level
They thing that upsets me with the Fuld “sucks” and is not an MLB player crowd is that they never acknowledged that the one season (09) that he got any real playing time, he did very well and hit .299. I get the no power part but hitting .299 in 100 at bats is not nothing.
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either
by Doggie Stalker on Apr 12, 2011 3:56 PM CDT up reply actions
Almost none
which is totally on the Cubs, but there are so many here who insist minor league stats especially at the AAA level are meaningless yet at the same time claim they somehow knew that McGehee would be good and the Cubs should never have released him.
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either
by Doggie Stalker on Apr 12, 2011 4:10 PM CDT up reply actions
McGehee would have been smart to keep around simply for his .960 career fielding %
At least they could have run out ONE guy from time-to-time who could be counted on at the hot corner.
And as it panned out McGehee just happened to outhit A-RAM since the trade as well. THAt was the bad decision blowing up in your face part.
by Jerry Mumphrey on Apr 12, 2011 4:12 PM CDT up reply actions
You realize .960 isn't very good for a guy who has a range factor of 2.06 (the 8th worst at 3B in the majors this year).
Even Ramirez has a range factor of 2.25…
are people really saying that Fuld sucks?
because he obviously doesnt suck (see his highlight reel)or is it that they arent saying he’s great?
"There had to be a place where the game could be fun again….that place is called Wrigley Field"---Andre Dawson
One thing you learned as a Cubs fan: when you bought your ticket, you could bank on seeing the bottom of the ninth. Joe Garagiola
I don't think anybody is completely sold on his offense yet.
But I don’t think he sucks. He’d be a valuable guy to have right now.
Um yes there are
Sucks and “not a major league player” were posted several times in the last few days and tons before that.
I have no problem with those who think he is no more than a 5th OF but feel free to check out some of the nasty posts in the last few days.
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either
by Doggie Stalker on Apr 12, 2011 4:35 PM CDT up reply actions
And, remember how many guys they tried to fill in at 3B that year? Oy vay.
It’ makes me sick to my stomach
"You win because of the quarterback. We have to get that position stabilized. We're fixated on that." -- Jerry Angelo (12.30.2008)
Jerry Angelo trades for Jay Cutler! (4.2.2009)
WHY DID WE LET COREY PATTERSON GO???
He just hit a homer off Felix Hernandez last night! Gah! TRADEFORHIMNOWJIM!!! ADAMLINDTOO!!!
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Just North of Wrigley Field
Watched C-Pat hit a home run last night
He is only 31. Kind of sad. Our old friend Milton also had a home run for the Mariners.
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either
by Doggie Stalker on Apr 12, 2011 8:16 PM CDT up reply actions
Milton hits home runs as well as holds up WIN signs?!
I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve. -J.R.R. Tolkien
It's sad...
that he’s never learned one ounce of plate discipline, and he’s 31. He would have had a long, distinguished career, if he could have done that. He’s certainly not lacking in other talents and physical attributes.
Do you have any idea how bad I run? I’ve never wanted Milton Bradley to succeed at life and I’ve had him play for my favorite team, and now the city I live in back to back.
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Just North of Wrigley Field
by jameslcrockett on Apr 15, 2011 12:58 AM CDT up reply actions
The irony is it was C-Pats attitude that got Fuld his first chance in the bigs
He of course is the unnamed player Fuld has mentioned who was late for practice one day
and sent home while Fuld was called up to take his spot in Sept of 07
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either
by Doggie Stalker on Apr 15, 2011 9:04 AM CDT up reply actions
No, that's not correct.
That was ERIC Patterson, not Corey. C-Pat was long gone from the Cubs by September 2007.
Check out Chicago sports coverage at SB Nation Chicago
Oops
Well I will thank the entire Patterson family then.
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either
by Doggie Stalker on Apr 15, 2011 11:20 AM CDT up reply actions
Sigh
Lou Brock, Casey McGehee, Eric Patterson, Sam Fuld……we’re doomed!
by San Diego Smooth Jazz Man on Apr 12, 2011 7:51 PM CDT reply actions
Don't forget
Jake Fox … never forget Jake Fox.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Apr 13, 2011 6:23 PM CDT up reply actions
I’m a Cub fan living in Florida. I am thrilled Sam is on the Ray’s for two reasons. First, the Rays are going to give him the shot the Cubs never would (and he earned) and second, I get to watch a guy that plays the game the way all ball players should play it. I wish Sam all the best.
blame colvin
that monster spring cost sam his job. hopefully tyler is not a flash in the pan. lets all be glad for sam. although he would have fit nicely with castro and barney. oh well.
It did cost him Fuld "his spot"
but shouldn’t have. This would be post, 1235 that Sam Fuld should have been on the roster over Nady coming out of Spring Training. Colvin earned his spot, Nady was clearly still recovering from surgery which the Cubs admitted but put him on the roster anyway.
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either
by Doggie Stalker on Apr 14, 2011 10:18 AM CDT up reply actions
Regret letting Fuld get away ... really?
I always turn to the sports section first. The sports page records people's accomplishments; the front page has nothing but man's failures.
~Earl Warren
I regret letting my first-grade girlfriend go
There will never again be a love that pure for me
"Wait, are you saying I'm a sunshine-pumping, koolaid-drinking, Soriano-loving, rainbow-rising, unicorn-riding, double-clutching, Sweet Lou-backing, Hendry-supporting, hey hey whaddya saying, Cubs are going all the waying, glass is overflowing, Rothschild is all-knowing, Cubs fan? - ballhawk

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