Cubs Offense Explodes, Zambrano Comes Close In Cubs 9-5 Win Over Astros
by Al Yellon on Apr 14, 2011 7:30 AM CDT
in Chicago Cubs Recaps
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PrintFeel better this morning?
You can be sure Carlos Zambrano does. He appeared to leave the mound before Mike Quade came to get him in a sloppily played bottom of the sixth of the Cubs' 9-5 win over the Astros Wednesday night. But instead of blowing up, Big Z apologized, says Patrick Mooney of CSN Chicago:
Zambrano was so caught up in an inning spinning out of control that Kerry Wood had to point it out to him. Zambrano watched the replay and felt compelled to go over to the Cubs manager’s office and apologize to Quade after a 9-5 win over the Houston Astros.
"I didn’t mean that," Zambrano said. "Believe me, the last thing that I want to do this year is disrespect the manager."
This was the bottom of the same inning where Z launched the home run that would wind up giving the Cubs their margin of victory. It was his fifth career HR in Houston and 22nd lifetime, by far the most among active pitchers (Livan Hernandez is second with 10). At the time, it looked like the Cubs were going to soar to an easy win; the Z blast gave them a 6-0 lead.
But then came that bottom of the sixth, in which Z apparently felt plate umpire Paul Emmel squeezed him on a couple of pitches; Darwin Barney let a catchable popup drop between him and Tyler Colvin in short right field, and Z allowed a two-run homer to Matt Downs, making the score 6-5 and prompting the call to the pen by Quade.
Fortunately, the Cubs' pen was up to the task; Marcos Mateo, Sean Marshall, Kerry Wood and Carlos Marmol threw 3.1 hitless innings, allowing just one baserunner (a walk by Marmol) and striking out three. Wood showed off the cutter that he learned from Mariano Rivera, which can be a devastating pitch when the pitcher using it is on his game, and Marmol made us a little nervous with the walk before shutting the door after the Cubs stretched the lead to a non-save-situation 9-5 in the top of the ninth.
Not that this really matters, but it was the first victory televised on WGN this year (after four losses).
Other positives from last night: Alfonso Soriano hit a three-run homer in a five-run Cubs first inning, his fourth of the season to date. He also made a nice throw, which was relayed to the plate on an even better throw from Starlin Castro, to nail Brett Wallace at home in the second inning. Castro had three more hits and is fifth in BA in the NL at .389. Darwin Barney (.345), Marlon Byrd (.353) and Aramis Ramirez (.326) are all hitting well in the early going; Jeff Baker, spotted well against LHP and starting at 1B last night to give the still-thumb-injured Carlos Pena the night off, is hitting .385, which splits this way: 9-for-18 vs. LHP, 1-for-8 vs. RHP.
Another small crowd of 20,987 watched this game. It looked like maybe half that number were in Minute Maid Park -- I think WGN's cameras showed every single one of them. Attendance may pick up later in the season when schools are out, but some teams appear to be in trouble (example: yesterday's "crowd" in Seattle of 12,407 was the smallest in Safeco Field history).
The Cubs flew to Denver after the game and will spend today's off day there, while the Rockies play a doubleheader in New York, forced by a postponement on Tuesday. Here's hoping that both games go into extra innings and tire out the Rockies bullpen.
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That ninth inning was INCREDIBLY nice to see.
Especially after the frustration of watching them score 5 in the first and then go to sleep for seven innings
I guess I'm just a worrier, that's why my friends call me whiskers
Indeed.
It would have been real nervous time with Marmol out there with only a one-run lead.
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Even when the game got close
it looked like they were having fun….
"There had to be a place where the game could be fun again….that place is called Wrigley Field"---Andre Dawson
One thing you learned as a Cubs fan: when you bought your ticket, you could bank on seeing the bottom of the ninth. Joe Garagiola
They're the bestest team since
the 2006 Tigers
what does that mean? 2006 Tigers went to the World Series
ask not what the Cubs can do for you - ask what you can do for the Cubs.
by holy mackeral on Apr 14, 2011 10:34 AM CDT up reply actions
Oops, meant 2005.
They were supposed to score 1000 runs and lap the field. They lost over 90 games.
Is Darwin Barney projected to be realistic starting second basemen?
He’s been playing pretty well.
Defensively.....yes
Offensively, he’ll probably come back down to earth at some point.
I guess I'm just a worrier, that's why my friends call me whiskers
by Nunyabidness on Apr 14, 2011 7:41 AM CDT up reply actions
If he could even hit .280 or thereabouts...
… he’d be a perfectly acceptable platoon partner with Baker.
And yes, I am aware it’s not a strict platoon, since both of them hit righthanded.
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If he could hit .280
He shouldn’t need to platoon. I don’t think he probably WILL hit .280 though.
I think .260ish is about the most you can expect.
I guess I'm just a worrier, that's why my friends call me whiskers
by Nunyabidness on Apr 14, 2011 7:58 AM CDT up reply actions
If Baker can keep raking vs. LHP, that's a decent platoon.
Check out Chicago sports coverage at SB Nation Chicago
maybe baker
Needs to platoon with Pena instead of Barney
by Ron Swanson on Apr 14, 2011 10:03 AM CDT via mobile up reply actions
YES YES YES YES YES YES YES
I guess I'm just a worrier, that's why my friends call me whiskers
by Nunyabidness on Apr 14, 2011 10:08 AM CDT up reply actions
Ya know, this may not be a bad idea,
although I would bring in Pena for defense later in the game.
"Chicago baseball fans, who are composites of scar tissue and mortifying memories..." - George F. Will
Avatar provided courtesy of AndrewJStone.
I could see this.
Not all the time, but at least sometimes to get Baker’s bat in the lineup vs. LHP.
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Don't forget that he can spell Ramirez at 3B if he needs a day off
There really is no good reason to have him out of the lineup against a LH starter.
all at the same time?
I guess I'm just a worrier, that's why my friends call me whiskers
by Nunyabidness on Apr 14, 2011 1:18 PM CDT up reply actions
Against a left-handed pitcher...
…Jeff Baker can do anything.
Contributing Editor, SB Nation Chicago. Please follow us on Twitter!
He is hitting this well
almost solely against right handed hitters! Pretty impressive.
He's hitting pretty poorly against righties... 1-8 I believe
Almost every one of his hits is off of a lefty.
He meant Barney.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Just North of Wrigley Field
by jameslcrockett on Apr 15, 2011 2:47 AM CDT up reply actions
Al just listed yesterday how Baker was the second best hittter (by AVG) against LHP in all of the MLB
Hitting .280 certainly warrants considering making him the full time second basemen in the future, but as long as you have Baker now, why wouldn’t you try and get that bat into the lineup against LHP?
It seems like people around here are upset at the idea of a platoon because generally platoons are indicative of less than top tier talent. Which just so happens to be the case with our 2B and RF positions right now. The day I feel we have a top tier starter at either position is the day I’ll stop pushing for us to take advantage of the platoon splits.
Try and move Fukudome to the Rangers
platoon Baker and Colvin. Brilliant.
Colvin has less of a platoon split than Pena
and Baker is not a particularly good outfielder. Let’s keep him at second or first.
No one should be untouchable on this roster unless his name is Eliot Ness...or Starlin Castro.
Colvin in RF
Colvin hasn’t played RF very well this series.
by AboutTheCubs on Apr 14, 2011 12:50 PM CDT up reply actions
It's only a platoon because of Baker.
He needs to be in the lineup against LHP. If Barney really is that good defensively, there’s no reason for him to sit ever until he proves he can’t produce against RHPs. If he’s that good against RHPs, they need to find out whether he can produce against LHPs as well. This year might prove useful if they establish Barney as something of a long-term asset.
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Just North of Wrigley Field
by jameslcrockett on Apr 15, 2011 2:59 AM CDT up reply actions
Saw the thing with Z
It didn’t look like it was a disrespect thing, it looked like he just wanted out of there.
If the world didn't suck we would all fall off.
Well, even Z saw it as a sign of disrespect.
and apologized so……………
I guess I'm just a worrier, that's why my friends call me whiskers
by Nunyabidness on Apr 14, 2011 7:53 AM CDT up reply actions
If that is as big of a blow up zambrano has this year
im ok with that!
He went into "frustrated Z" mode for sure
Started throwing instead of pitching. His motion went to crap and he lost the plate. When he’d actually throw a strike, they’d nail it. To his credit, he went to the dugout and sat down, rather than lash out at anything (or anybody). That’s an improvement over years past.
"Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have?" -Frank Chance
"If [Ruth] had [called his shot], I would have knocked him down with the next pitch." -Charlie Root
I'm really, really unimpressed with Mark Riggins.
It seems like he really doesn’t like going to the mound and when he does, he wants to get the hell out of there. The point of that visit was CLEARLY to calm Z down. He should have taken a bit more time and actually……calmed him down.
I guess I'm just a worrier, that's why my friends call me whiskers
by Nunyabidness on Apr 14, 2011 8:00 AM CDT up reply actions
He may have wanted to take more time
But he was chased by the ump. I was thinking the same thing at the time it happened
If the world didn't suck we would all fall off.
I think Soto was actually trying to calm him down
and Riggins was playing the part
"Hello again, everybody. It's a bee-yooo-tiful day for baseball."
Exactly!
I was gearing up to hail Big Z as the conquering hero in this game — and I still support the guy — but, man, he completely lost his focus in that last inning. It looked like he was just firing fastballs at the hitters’ ankles. And then, naturally, he leaves one up and it turns into a home run. But I ain’t mad atcha, Z.
Contributing Editor, SB Nation Chicago. Please follow us on Twitter!
Typical Zambrano, and Typical Quade at this point, too.
Zambrano: Good pitching, head case
Quade: I think Quade’s new MO is to leave starters in one inning longer than they should be in
Can someone tell me why Marmol threw? I really don’t like using him when it’s not necessary. “Because he was already up and throwing” seems like the boiler plate response.
"The riches of the game are in the thrills, not the money." --Ernie Banks
In this case, the boilerplate response is the correct one.
Mateo, Wood and Marshall had already been in the game. Grabow, Stevens and Samardzija had all thrown extended time the night before. Marmol had not thrown in two days, and today’s an off day. It was the right thing to do.
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Agreed
Quade is certainly not winning me over, but not EVERY move he makes is idiotic. Just….more than I’m comfortable with.
I guess I'm just a worrier, that's why my friends call me whiskers
by Nunyabidness on Apr 14, 2011 7:56 AM CDT up reply actions
So far, I haven't been impressed by some of Quade's moves, either.
But this one was fine.
Check out Chicago sports coverage at SB Nation Chicago
I wasn't calling him an idiot, just to be clear.
"The riches of the game are in the thrills, not the money." --Ernie Banks
Yeah, I know Marmol had to go last night.
But let’s be honest—guys like Marmol only have so much in the tank, and small IPs add up.
"The riches of the game are in the thrills, not the money." --Ernie Banks
You're right, the Cubs have had plenty of successes with power pitchers in the last decade.
"The riches of the game are in the thrills, not the money." --Ernie Banks
I'm not interested in abusing Marmol
but from what I’ve seen of him, it seems like he’s able to throw more innings than most closers. He seems better the more he throws.
by jerry morales rules on Apr 14, 2011 9:34 AM CDT up reply actions
Agree as well.
And the Cubs really needed this win.
Contributing Editor, SB Nation Chicago. Please follow us on Twitter!
Quade left him in about 2 batters two long, not an inning.
Zambrano was at 88 pitches when he started melting down. It’s not like Quade should be expecting that.
I guess I'm just a worrier, that's why my friends call me whiskers
by Nunyabidness on Apr 14, 2011 7:55 AM CDT up reply actions
Zambrano also looked GREAT up until that 6th.
It’s not like anyone could’ve predicted the meltdown. The Dempster situation was completely different because when he got out of the bases loaded jam, everyone KNEW he had nothing left and Quade sent him back out.
This one, Quade probably thought he could’ve gotten at least 1 more inning out of him, and rightfully so. You don’t sit a guy after 80 pitches when he’s only allowed what, two hits?
Well, he WAS already throwing...
and the Cubs are off Thursday, so I really don’t see a problem with Q using Marmol…
Get 'em on, Get 'em over, Get 'em in!
How about these starters of ours lasting MORE than 5 or 6 innings?
There’s NO excuse for their less than stellar performances. This bullpen will be dead in the water by August at this rate. 6-0 lead last night shoulda meant Wood, Marshall and Marmol remained in the bullpen playing checkers or whatever they do on days NOT needed. I think Quade sees that and is hoping these pitchers remove their heads from their arses and go deeper into games. Sooner or later it’s gotta happen or Wood’s Marshall’s arms will fall off.
I've come to the conclusion that the two most important things in life are good friends and a good bullpen. ~Bob Lemon, 1981
I'm not too concerned about Marshall
Especially if he’s not going 1.2+ every other night. Woody, OTOH…
"Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have?" -Frank Chance
"If [Ruth] had [called his shot], I would have knocked him down with the next pitch." -Charlie Root
The leaving the starters in for an inning too long is a move Quade must have picked up from Lou
over the past 2 seasons. Although, its usually reserved for Ryan Dempster.
"You've got to get your damn shirts rolled up and go out and kick somebody's ass. That's what you've got to do. Period." -- Lou Piniella
Baker at 1st, Colvin in LF
Isn’t this asking for a dropped ball with these two out there together? Poor Barney has to run all the way over there, it should have been Colvin’s ball right?
Colvin wasn't in LF.
I guess I'm just a worrier, that's why my friends call me whiskers
by Nunyabidness on Apr 14, 2011 7:54 AM CDT up reply actions
He meant RF, I think.
But he’s also right — that should be the outfielder’s ball. It appeared Barney thought Colvin called him off it — Barney looked like he had it all the way, then pulled off at the last minute.
Check out Chicago sports coverage at SB Nation Chicago
Agreed. Colvin should have taken charge and caught it.
Barney looked awkward from the start trying to catch it.
"Hello again, everybody. It's a bee-yooo-tiful day for baseball."
What would that even sound like?
Would it be in the form of a song?
"Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have?" -Frank Chance
"If [Ruth] had [called his shot], I would have knocked him down with the next pitch." -Charlie Root
On TV
you could clearly here someone yell “I GOT IT.” I don’t know who it was, but I have the feeling that if it was Barney who yelled it, he wouldn’t have been unsure about it.
Did you hear an annoying giggle after it?
If not, probably wasn’t Barney
moratorium on purple dinosaur references.
"There had to be a place where the game could be fun again….that place is called Wrigley Field"---Andre Dawson
One thing you learned as a Cubs fan: when you bought your ticket, you could bank on seeing the bottom of the ninth. Joe Garagiola
Far duller, IMHO
You can only say “his double evolved into a run” so many times.
"Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have?" -Frank Chance
"If [Ruth] had [called his shot], I would have knocked him down with the next pitch." -Charlie Root
His full name is Darwin James Kunane Barney
Not sure where we can go with James Kunane
i'm sure i can come up with a few zingers on Kunane
(if i’m pronouncing it correctly)
"There had to be a place where the game could be fun again….that place is called Wrigley Field"---Andre Dawson
One thing you learned as a Cubs fan: when you bought your ticket, you could bank on seeing the bottom of the ninth. Joe Garagiola
I'm not sure you are
And I’m not sure that matters.
"Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have?" -Frank Chance
"If [Ruth] had [called his shot], I would have knocked him down with the next pitch." -Charlie Root
Somewhere...
… someone made a “purple evolutionist” photo — Charles Darwin in purple.
Anyone have it?
Check out Chicago sports coverage at SB Nation Chicago
It's here
http://www.flickr.com/photos/30049995@N08/3311784255/in/pool-820245@N25/
Only problem is, sharing appears to be disabled on it, so I can’t grab a decent URL
"Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have?" -Frank Chance
"If [Ruth] had [called his shot], I would have knocked him down with the next pitch." -Charlie Root
Weird.
For some reason, I can’t log in to Flickr right now. The sign-in window pops up, but it’s blank.
Contributing Editor, SB Nation Chicago. Please follow us on Twitter!
That's odd.
It made me create an account, then said I don’t have permission to view that photo.
Thanks a lot, Yahoo.
Check out Chicago sports coverage at SB Nation Chicago
You probably need to join the BCB Flickr group
But it looks like Flickr is having their own problems right now. I can’t get into it at all at the moment
"Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have?" -Frank Chance
"If [Ruth] had [called his shot], I would have knocked him down with the next pitch." -Charlie Root
Finally in
BCB group here: http://www.flickr.com/groups/bleedcubbieblue/
"Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have?" -Frank Chance
"If [Ruth] had [called his shot], I would have knocked him down with the next pitch." -Charlie Root
Flickr changed their copyright policy in the last year
Making all pics that weren’t specifically allowed to be shared unshared (essentially, a reverse Facebook tactic). They also converted everything to JPEGs, wiping out all anigifs hosted there.
Anyone know of a good photo-hosting service that’s not Flickr or Photobucket? The gymnastics one must perform to get a pic URL at either place are a pain in my nether regions.
"Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have?" -Frank Chance
"If [Ruth] had [called his shot], I would have knocked him down with the next pitch." -Charlie Root
ImageShack
RIP Ronnie James Dio (July 10, 1942 - May 16, 2010) and Ron Santo (February 25, 1940-December 2, 2010).
If you disagree with me in any way, you are wrong.
Maybe
ISTR having trouble snagging URLs from there, too. I’ll try it, though.
"Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have?" -Frank Chance
"If [Ruth] had [called his shot], I would have knocked him down with the next pitch." -Charlie Root
I always flow back to Flickr :(
"Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have?" -Frank Chance
"If [Ruth] had [called his shot], I would have knocked him down with the next pitch." -Charlie Root
I've found Photobucket incredibly easy to use
the URL is right under the pic when you scroll over it, along with a bunch of other options and all you have to do is click on it and it automatically copies.
I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve. -J.R.R. Tolkien
Maybe it's just stingy with URLs belonging to other people
‘Cuz it’s about 5 clicks to get one off a GIS→Photobucket
"Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have?" -Frank Chance
"If [Ruth] had [called his shot], I would have knocked him down with the next pitch." -Charlie Root
I didn't know that
I only use it for my own account so I can post all those incredibly witty photos to the the game threads
I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve. -J.R.R. Tolkien
Funny thing is
I find it’s easier to track stuff down via GIS than to comb through my own stash at Flickr. I know it’s in there somewhere, but going page-by-page to find it is a pain. Is there a “Show All” option in Photobucket?
"Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have?" -Frank Chance
"If [Ruth] had [called his shot], I would have knocked him down with the next pitch." -Charlie Root
there is! that's one thing I love about it
I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve. -J.R.R. Tolkien
I'll give it a whirl
And I note that there’s an iPhone app. I’ll have to get that when I go home tonight.
"Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have?" -Frank Chance
"If [Ruth] had [called his shot], I would have knocked him down with the next pitch." -Charlie Root
thanks for the tip! I'll get that too :-)
I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve. -J.R.R. Tolkien
You can now get it here
Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.
by drewishdrewid on Apr 14, 2011 1:25 PM CDT up reply actions
Al's version
Is hosted at SBN – save your bandwidth and use that one, I say :D
"Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have?" -Frank Chance
"If [Ruth] had [called his shot], I would have knocked him down with the next pitch." -Charlie Root
good point.
Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.
by drewishdrewid on Apr 14, 2011 1:56 PM CDT up reply actions
Snow on the ground here in Denver this morning!!
Don’t worry – it’s just a dusting and it will be upper 50’s/mid-60’s and sunny this weekend. But we finally got a little rain/snow late last night. Can’t wait for the Cubs to come to town and smack around the Rockies. Damn, how I hate the Rockies…
Get 'em on, Get 'em over, Get 'em in!
A bit on the cool side, no rain
If the Cubs still have a chance, no matter how small, it’s still Go Cubs, damn the math and pass the KoolAid.
Colorado Weather looks OK for the series, Chicago, early next week, does not.
If the Cubs still have a chance, no matter how small, it’s still Go Cubs, damn the math and pass the KoolAid.
What's Z's era in innings after he hits a HR?
I bet it’s above 10, maybe even before last night – it seems like every time he hits a HR he gives the run right back, and then some. He gets too excited or something, his head gets out of the game…
I’m too lazy to figure this out, of course, but if someone has some time on their hands, it might be pretty interesting.
One that I've wondered about
is the correlation regarding a pitcher’s normal performance, and after being on base for an extended time.
when he gets a hit, it's like he morphs out of pitcher mode
I like Z…I hope he can keep his cool and still become the monster pitcher other teams will fear. Is that asking too much?
"Well-behaved women seldom make History"---Laurel Thatcher Ulrich
by cooliogirl47 on Apr 14, 2011 8:28 AM CDT up reply actions
That pitcher may have been used up at ages 22-26
As soon as Z hit the Cubs, he was throwing 200+ innings at age 22 and by 26 he was showing “control problems,” and he started missing time at age 27. Would any team start put a 22-year old starter in for 200+ innings now?
Your answer is: 6.55
Attributable mostly to two games: Yesterday, when he gave up 4 ER and 4/13/2007, when he gave up 6 ER.
Other than that, the only >1 ER total was 4/28/2009, when he gave up 2 ER. All told, Z has given up 16 ER (and one unearned) in 22 IP after hitting a HR the previous half-inning. The trend line is rising somewhat – he only gave up 1 ER total in the half-innings after hitting a HR the first 10 times he hit one.
The Cubs are 15-7 in games in which Z has homered.
Other notes: On 7/19/2008, Zambrano’s HR was responsible for the only Cubs run of the day, as the Astros won 4-1 behind a strong performance from…Wandy Rodriguez. On 8/30/2010 (his last HR before yesterday), the Cubs allowed an unearned run the next inning, but no earned ones.
"Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have?" -Frank Chance
"If [Ruth] had [called his shot], I would have knocked him down with the next pitch." -Charlie Root
by Clutch16 on Apr 14, 2011 9:26 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
holy moley
now that is a detailed answer, one that proves me both right and wrong.
Thanks for the knowledge.
And I was wrong on a couple of specifics
That’s what I get for running numbers before I’m fully-awake.
It’s actually 18 ER in 22 IP, for a 7.36 ERA. I missed a couple of runs on HRs, including yesterday.
Here’s the breakdown:
- - 9/17/2006: 1 ER
- - 4/13/2007: 6 ER
- - 7/19/2008: 1 ER
- - 8/9/2008: 2 ER (previously counted as 1)
- - 4/28/2009: 2 ER
- - 8/25/2009: 1 ER
- - 4/13/2011: 5 ER (previously counted as 4)
"Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have?" -Frank Chance
"If [Ruth] had [called his shot], I would have knocked him down with the next pitch." -Charlie Root
Damned SBN # sign thingy
Those were HR numbers 3, 11, 14, 15, 17, 20, and 22
"Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have?" -Frank Chance
"If [Ruth] had [called his shot], I would have knocked him down with the next pitch." -Charlie Root
About a 100.
I'm an excellent poster.
by Raymond Babbitt on Apr 14, 2011 10:08 AM CDT up reply actions
Colorado series
I know they are playing very good ball right now, especially Tulo and Cargo, but we have to win this series too ! Garza should pitch better and they have to go with a minor leaguer on sundays because of the double header today !
we're going with a minor leaguer too though.
I guess I'm just a worrier, that's why my friends call me whiskers
by Nunyabidness on Apr 14, 2011 7:57 AM CDT up reply actions
That should be fun
13-9 game, anyone?
"Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have?" -Frank Chance
"If [Ruth] had [called his shot], I would have knocked him down with the next pitch." -Charlie Root
You're optimistic.
This is going to be a 15-2 affair, I’m sure. The Cubs defense completely lost confidence when they put Russell out there. :(
Believe or Leave ~Cubswynn 9/9/2008
The rotation for this weekend is
Garza, Coleman, Dempster
Check out Chicago sports coverage at SB Nation Chicago
not sure why, but when I look at that rotation,
Dempster is my biggest concern.
"Well-behaved women seldom make History"---Laurel Thatcher Ulrich
by cooliogirl47 on Apr 14, 2011 8:31 AM CDT up reply actions
Oh good.
So this will be for the next series. :p
(Here’s hoping I’m wrong)
Believe or Leave ~Cubswynn 9/9/2008
At least the next series
… is vs. the Padres at home, rather than against the Rockies in Denver.
Check out Chicago sports coverage at SB Nation Chicago
Coors field isn't an easy place to play
If Garza pitches badly in Denver …. anyone want to guess what this week’s excuse will be?
''"I always thought I was the most competitive person out there. I never thought I'd find anybody more competitive until I met him.'' Ryan Dempster talking about Ted Lilly
by Madison Cub Fan on Apr 14, 2011 9:14 AM CDT up reply actions
Oh so was AZ dry air &
Him not being able to “pitch his sort of game” also explanation for why he’s been pitching poorly?
''"I always thought I was the most competitive person out there. I never thought I'd find anybody more competitive until I met him.'' Ryan Dempster talking about Ted Lilly
by Madison Cub Fan on Apr 14, 2011 9:28 AM CDT up reply actions
oh sorry
That is what I was kinda expecting minus sarcasm. I keep reminding myself of small sample size and to keep an open mind. But it just isn’t quite working
''"I always thought I was the most competitive person out there. I never thought I'd find anybody more competitive until I met him.'' Ryan Dempster talking about Ted Lilly
by Madison Cub Fan on Apr 14, 2011 9:33 AM CDT up reply actions
I don't believe he's necessarily putting the blame on others
The AZ air thing ok plain excuse. But i think when he was talking about pitching his sort of game, i think its possible he’s referring to himself overthinking. He’s trying to get to cute with his pitches/pitch selection and over think it. He’s a veteran, he can shake off Soto whenever he wants. So, at least from my point of view, he was simply saying that he needs to get back to what he does best, and thats reach back and throw the fastball. just my humble opinion though, i can sometimes give people too much credit…
I hope you are right
But then why say that the hits were given up on off speed pitches not fastballs.
If that is the way you feel after the game. One must have felt that way during the game between innings maybe discuss it with Soto so that you are on the same page (maybe he did) instead of whining to the media.
''"I always thought I was the most competitive person out there. I never thought I'd find anybody more competitive until I met him.'' Ryan Dempster talking about Ted Lilly
by Madison Cub Fan on Apr 14, 2011 10:37 AM CDT up reply actions
True
def should have discussed it over with Soto during the game. But on the other hand maybe it took him from the time he was out of the ballgame to sit back and kind of examine what went wrong. Is he blaming Soto? maybe, but I’m leaning towards the fact that the media is asking him what’s going on and his assessment is he’s not pitchign the way he has in the past, and he needs to get back to focusing on the fastball.
I hope your right
Ballplayers are allow to make any excuse they want almost so I suppose I shouldn’t even be pondering it
''"I always thought I was the most competitive person out there. I never thought I'd find anybody more competitive until I met him.'' Ryan Dempster talking about Ted Lilly
by Madison Cub Fan on Apr 14, 2011 12:00 PM CDT up reply actions
let's table this topic until next week
:)
''"I always thought I was the most competitive person out there. I never thought I'd find anybody more competitive until I met him.'' Ryan Dempster talking about Ted Lilly
by Madison Cub Fan on Apr 14, 2011 12:53 PM CDT up reply actions
Garza's been
pitching poorly?
Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.
by drewishdrewid on Apr 14, 2011 1:33 PM CDT up reply actions
I'd say he's been pitching ... weirdly.
Contributing Editor, SB Nation Chicago. Please follow us on Twitter!
ok.
12 Ks in his first start, seemed pretty darn good to me.
Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.
by drewishdrewid on Apr 14, 2011 1:56 PM CDT up reply actions
12 Ks to go with 12 hits.
And then 8 Ks in his next start to go with … 8 hits.
His starts have just been weird so far. I’m still looking forward to watching him pitch, though.
Contributing Editor, SB Nation Chicago. Please follow us on Twitter!
I hereby request a no-hitter with no strikeouts.
Check out Chicago sports coverage at SB Nation Chicago
Wait two starts
"Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have?" -Frank Chance
"If [Ruth] had [called his shot], I would have knocked him down with the next pitch." -Charlie Root
Hm, that would balance the books nicely.
Contributing Editor, SB Nation Chicago. Please follow us on Twitter!
There have been only two no-hitters since 1919...
… that meet that criterion (no strikeouts)
Sad Sam Jones for the Yankees vs. the A’s on September 4, 1923
and
Ken Holtzman for the Cubs vs. the Braves on August 19, 1969
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sure
but those 12 hits hadn’t done much damage. I’m just saying.
Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.
by drewishdrewid on Apr 14, 2011 3:22 PM CDT up reply actions
His first start was neither good nor bad. It just was.
There were things to like (12 K, overall quality start, leaving with a lead, and sadly… the longest start of the year thus far for a Cub with 7 innings).
On the other hand, there were bad things (12 hits, giving up three runs before completing five innings, just giving up three runs to the Pirates period).
The second start was pretty bad… and the overall numbers aren’t real good, beyond the Ks. No matter how you slice it, a 5.68 ERA and WHIP of nearly 2 (even if only through two starts) isn’t real good for your “big offseason addition”.
It isn’t time to “panic” by any means, but Garza surely isn’t pitching up to his billing.
"Stuff like this is why they should shut off the internet."
by Orval Overall on Dec 17, 2010 1:19 PM CST
The guy has a BABIP approaching .500...
Yes, you read that right. Nearly half the balls that are hit into play are falling for hits.
Talk about your all time crummy luck through two starts. Let’s give that time to normalize. He’s striking people out and not walking many, and I expect his numbers to look quite good.
Didn’t someone say he had a NEGATIVE FIP after his first start? Yeah…
Fair enough.
But other numbers will “normalize”, as well. It seems fairly unlikely that a 6.7 K/BB ratio and a 0% HR rate aren’t terribly sustainable, either.
"Stuff like this is why they should shut off the internet."
by Orval Overall on Dec 17, 2010 1:19 PM CST
This
Garza has been around .280 for his career, albeit with a better defense in Tampa. Even a .300 BABIP is tons better than what’s happened to him so far.
Starting pitchers in MLB who are off to worse starts include
Chris Carpenter, 5.82 ERA
Ted Lilly, 6.00 ERA
Fausto Carmona, 6.11 ERA
Chad Billingsley, 7.71 ERA, 1.71 WHIP
Francisco Liriano, 9.42 ERA
Way too early to worry about Garza.
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Sure, we shouldn't worry about Garza yet
But, we also have no reason to believe that he is going to make the jump to ace-level as predicted by Jim Hendry and many on this site this winter.
He has a FIP of 0.64
and an xFIP of 1.30.
I think that would be ace like if not for bad luck that actually happened.
I saw that
I would agree that the K rate and BB rates are impressive so far. Still far too early to make a judgment though.
Of course, but it's too early to claim good and bad.
You need to let these things normalize over a period of a few months.
He will be much better than his ERA suggests, and much worse than his FIP suggests.
I think his first start was actually very impressive
12 Ks, no BBs and no XBHs is an impressive outing no matter how you slice it.
I'm not saying by any stretch that it was "bad"
but you just listed the good qualities and concluded the start was “very impressive”.
Couldn’t someone list giving up 12 hits (WHIP of 1.71) and 3 runs and conclude that the start wasn’t impressive?
Again, lots of good and an overall very solid start, but I don’t think you can look at only the good (12 K, 0 BB, 0 XBH) and conclude it was impressive.
"Stuff like this is why they should shut off the internet."
by Orval Overall on Dec 17, 2010 1:19 PM CST
All of this is why...
…I wind up using the word “weird.” A BABIP that high…a FIP that low. He’s an interesting guy, to say the least.
Contributing Editor, SB Nation Chicago. Please follow us on Twitter!
Q leaves him in an inning too long
"Hello again, everybody. It's a bee-yooo-tiful day for baseball."
After Dempster do you think it will be Z again?
Just asking since there was a day off again, and you could probably avoid sending out Shark or Russell.
by alabamacubbie on Apr 14, 2011 11:06 AM CDT up reply actions
Nope.
Unless you count Coleman, who does have ML experience. Should be Garza Friday, Coleman Saturday, Dempster Sunday.
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I am counting Coleman, because he's not a major league pitcher
at least not yet.
I guess I'm just a worrier, that's why my friends call me whiskers
by Nunyabidness on Apr 14, 2011 8:01 AM CDT up reply actions
I see your point.
But it’s not like he’s never started a MLB game. He has, and some were against playoff contenders last September.
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He is only in the rotation because of injury. He was in the minors before that
He’s not particularly good. Three strikes that make him a “minor league pitcher” in my book.
I know you like Coleman Al, and I’m not saying he’ll never be worth a crap, but he’s not very good yet.
I guess I'm just a worrier, that's why my friends call me whiskers
by Nunyabidness on Apr 14, 2011 8:58 AM CDT up reply actions
Yeah, I know all that.
Still, he does have some limited MLB experience and has done OK — even last Sunday wasn’t awful.
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Coleman looks like the best option for 4 or 5th
But considering the options that really isn’t saying much.
Any word on when Wells or Cashner when they will return?
''"I always thought I was the most competitive person out there. I never thought I'd find anybody more competitive until I met him.'' Ryan Dempster talking about Ted Lilly
by Madison Cub Fan on Apr 14, 2011 9:22 AM CDT up reply actions
Latest speculation
http://www.bleedcubbieblue.com/2011/4/12/2106625/levine-wells-out-3-4-weeks-cashner-around-six-weeks
"Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have?" -Frank Chance
"If [Ruth] had [called his shot], I would have knocked him down with the next pitch." -Charlie Root
Wonder if the Cubs should calls the Twins about Kevin Slowey...
They have a need for a 2B, maybe they’d have an interest in DeWitt?
Cubs take the series 2 games to 1.
That would make me plenty happy…
Get 'em on, Get 'em over, Get 'em in!
It would also make me surprised
The Rockies are playing very good baseball right now.
We’re still incredibly shaky
I guess I'm just a worrier, that's why my friends call me whiskers
by Nunyabidness on Apr 14, 2011 8:02 AM CDT up reply actions
Cubs/Rockies Pitching Matchups
Friday: Garza vs Chacin
Saturday: Coleman vs Hammel
Sunday: Dempster vs Rogers
Get 'em on, Get 'em over, Get 'em in!
Good.
Don’t have to face Cook, DeLaRosa or Jimenez.
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That will definitely be a plus
Sadly, Neither Garza, Dempster or Coleman are filling me with confidence.
I guess I'm just a worrier, that's why my friends call me whiskers
by Nunyabidness on Apr 14, 2011 8:59 AM CDT up reply actions
It's only Cubs Baseball, but I like it, I like it... Yes, I do!
If the Cubs still have a chance, no matter how small, it’s still Go Cubs, damn the math and pass the KoolAid.
Nice win.
But it would be nice to stay over .500 instead of fighting at .500 all year.
Tyler Andrew Davis - Born 4.5.11
A Cub fan forever more... just like his dad.
The Rox series should give us a pretty good idea if there's a chance of that.
I guess I'm just a worrier, that's why my friends call me whiskers
by Nunyabidness on Apr 14, 2011 8:07 AM CDT up reply actions
Yes, I agree with this.
The Rox are playing extremely well. Cubs teams, though, have generally played well in Colorado (last year a notable exception).
Check out Chicago sports coverage at SB Nation Chicago
Agreed - Cubs usually play pretty well here in Colorado...
And just like everywhere across MLB, a TON of loud Cubs fans always invade Coors Field…
Get 'em on, Get 'em over, Get 'em in!
Get
used to it.
"Every player should be accorded the privilege of at least one season with the Chicago Cubs. That's baseball as it should be played - in God's own sunshine. And that's really living." ~Alvin Dark
by DamonBerryhillsMitt on Apr 14, 2011 8:12 AM CDT via mobile up reply actions
Winning the lottery would be nice.
Getting an offer of $500k/year to fly airplanes would be nice.
Finding a case of Johnnie Walker Blue when I get home would be nice.
All three are only slightly less likely.
by Shanghai Badger on Apr 14, 2011 10:50 AM CDT up reply actions
It was nice to see bryd hustling down the line last night.
by wrigley12 on Apr 14, 2011 8:04 AM CDT reply actions 1 recs
wording not wrong, just add
as always
"Hello again, everybody. It's a bee-yooo-tiful day for baseball."
Turning a DP into a FC
Saved that inning for us and allowed the two-out rally. TJ will be along shortly to point this out to everyone.
"Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have?" -Frank Chance
"If [Ruth] had [called his shot], I would have knocked him down with the next pitch." -Charlie Root
So hustling = 5 runs
Someone might point that out to Husker1…..
by ClarkFan on Apr 14, 2011 10:20 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
I know *just* the "optimist" for the job
"Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have?" -Frank Chance
"If [Ruth] had [called his shot], I would have knocked him down with the next pitch." -Charlie Root
by Clutch16 on Apr 14, 2011 10:24 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
What ticks me off about guys who don't "hustle" is that is the visible statement on how they play the game
Those same players will jog to fly balls, not chase grounders and give up at-bats. Not running down the line is just the symptom of a deeper problem.
by ClarkFan on Apr 14, 2011 10:31 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
bad throw would have been safe any way...
ducking as something gets thrown at my head*****
"There had to be a place where the game could be fun again….that place is called Wrigley Field"---Andre Dawson
One thing you learned as a Cubs fan: when you bought your ticket, you could bank on seeing the bottom of the ninth. Joe Garagiola
Got that one in the 9th
E1 for three bases.
"Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have?" -Frank Chance
"If [Ruth] had [called his shot], I would have knocked him down with the next pitch." -Charlie Root
i watched that play and consciously thought...
TJ Vs. Husker begin now…
"There had to be a place where the game could be fun again….that place is called Wrigley Field"---Andre Dawson
One thing you learned as a Cubs fan: when you bought your ticket, you could bank on seeing the bottom of the ninth. Joe Garagiola
It's hilarious how obsessed you are with me.
I’m flattered really.
You should probably spend you time doing something else though. It’s kind of sad. LOL
i loved that Marlon hit a fart back to the pitcher
and got a triple out of it…and no snarkiness whatsoever…it was all hustle.
"There had to be a place where the game could be fun again….that place is called Wrigley Field"---Andre Dawson
One thing you learned as a Cubs fan: when you bought your ticket, you could bank on seeing the bottom of the ninth. Joe Garagiola
Exactly, do you see Aram or Soriano busting it to get down the line on that hit?
Would either have made it to 3b?
Hey
I was happy to see Aram leg it out from 1st to score
"Hello again, everybody. It's a bee-yooo-tiful day for baseball."
agreed! he's not always just lazy...
just when he thinks there’s no shot, like on Byrd’s dribble up the middle, Aram probably wouldnt have ran balls out to first like Byrd did
"There had to be a place where the game could be fun again….that place is called Wrigley Field"---Andre Dawson
One thing you learned as a Cubs fan: when you bought your ticket, you could bank on seeing the bottom of the ninth. Joe Garagiola
he's only lazy some of the time
more often than not when balls come his way. When they are hit to other positions he’s far less lazy :)
''"I always thought I was the most competitive person out there. I never thought I'd find anybody more competitive until I met him.'' Ryan Dempster talking about Ted Lilly
by Madison Cub Fan on Apr 14, 2011 12:02 PM CDT up reply actions
the correct and honest answer is probably not....
but to avoid a 95 comment debate on the minutia they didnt have the opportunity to prove it, however byrd’s example proves that hustle does change the game and can lead to positive results if “played the right way”
"There had to be a place where the game could be fun again….that place is called Wrigley Field"---Andre Dawson
One thing you learned as a Cubs fan: when you bought your ticket, you could bank on seeing the bottom of the ninth. Joe Garagiola
sadly, no.
because he cant deny that hustle doesnt positively affect games, he wants proof that aramis is lazy and that cant really be quantified unless aram is literally drinking a beer and lying down on third base or walking out of the batters box to first, which he would obviously never do. he may not ALWAYS sprint out of the box but he never walks out of the box…so whatever.
"There had to be a place where the game could be fun again….that place is called Wrigley Field"---Andre Dawson
One thing you learned as a Cubs fan: when you bought your ticket, you could bank on seeing the bottom of the ninth. Joe Garagiola
I can't deny that it positively affects games. I have never denied that once.
But nobody can deny that it might not have any sort of meaningful impact on the outcome of an entire season.
So it’s pointless to debate.
When hustling affects one game it affects the whole season.
If the Cubs win the wild card or division with a 1 game lead then yesterday’s game, because of hustle, will be the cause. If they didn’t hustle then they would have lost and the result could be losing the division/wild card by 1 game. Therefore, with this scenario, if hustle affects one game it could affect the entire season.
by alabamacubbie on Apr 14, 2011 11:25 AM CDT up reply actions
Ummmm.....no.
You need data to back up something like that. There is no way that you can possibly say that the one game yesterday would be the absolute difference in a 1 game lead at the end of the season. That is completely ridiculous.
Let's try it this way, Husker...
You say:
I can’t deny that it positively affects games.
Which shows you that hustle can impact a game positively, possibly resulting in a win instead of a loss.
We can also all agree that games effect the season, because the better you play in games the better your overall season will be.
By this logic, we can can say….
Hustle can effect games positively. Winning games can effect the season positively. So hustle can effect the season positively.
I'd like to see the numbers that show the exact impact that can be made.
Otherwise it’s dumb to debate something that might have such a small impact, Soriano having a cold that day might make a bigger difference. We won’t know until there is a way to measure it.
So While I can’t deny that it positively affects games. You, TJ, DS, and others cannot say that it does with absolute certainty.
Not everything about winning baseball can be quantified.
No, I cannot prove that with numbers. Nevertheless, it exists.
Check out Chicago sports coverage at SB Nation Chicago
........
Then stop saying with absolute certainty that it matters.
I’m not saying that it doesn’t matter with and sort of certainty. I’m just irritated you guys cannot say the same thing.
You’re contradicting yourself pretty bad here.
If you think it'
''"I always thought I was the most competitive person out there. I never thought I'd find anybody more competitive until I met him.'' Ryan Dempster talking about Ted Lilly
by Madison Cub Fan on Apr 14, 2011 12:03 PM CDT up reply actions
dumb debate
why are you answering?
I think you like the attention.
''"I always thought I was the most competitive person out there. I never thought I'd find anybody more competitive until I met him.'' Ryan Dempster talking about Ted Lilly
by Madison Cub Fan on Apr 14, 2011 12:04 PM CDT up reply actions
oh wow.
I’m still answering because i’m still getting the same crap answers.
Nope, no proof it exists, but trust me it exists. That’s what Al just said.
I honestly just feel bad that people exist
Who believe baseball is only about numbers.
Not everything in life can be proved with a formula, and that’s especially true for this game.
Sit back and watch with your own eyes, and you’ll see that not everything needs to be explained with math.
Sigh
The same tired argument again. I never said I think baseball is only about numbers. That’s just a easy way for you avoid the topic.
I never said I think baseball is only about numbers.
That is, however, essentially what you are saying — you claim that things that can’t be measured don’t matter.
They do matter.
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I'd like you to explain
how you know for a FACT it matters when you have no proof to back it up.
Or why don’t you admit that if it cannot be measured than you have no idea if the impact is big or non-existent.
You really don't get it, do you.
You are asking for mathematical proof of something that, by definition, cannot be proven mathematically.
Check out Chicago sports coverage at SB Nation Chicago
So you're saying you have no idea what kind of impact it makes right?
So why put so much into something that cannot be proven.
It’s funny, you want these players to never give less than 100% like they were machines or something. And then you accuse me of not understanding the human element.
Humans slow down, get tired and occasionaly jog to first on a routine groundout. But for some reason you don’t get that.
When did I say that?
I have never said that intangibles are the ONLY factor, nor do I “put so much” into it.
All I’ve said is that they matter. That’s a true statement.
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Sigh.....
Once AGAIN, I’m sure they matter. But it’s very possible they matter very very little. Can’t you even agree that that MIGHT be the case. Or are you going to continue with the idea that you “know” they mean more.
Never said they mean "more".
Only that they do matter.
Check out Chicago sports coverage at SB Nation Chicago
Wow.
Insults on top of everything else.
I’ve given you an awful lot of rope here. I could ban you, but you’re probably looking for it. I kind of feel sorry for you. Do you treat people this way in real life?
Check out Chicago sports coverage at SB Nation Chicago
Insults? OK....
I’ve been trying to have a discussion and all I’m getting in return is nonsense, and the same lines over and over without conceding a point, and it’s obvious you just don’t want to agree with me on anything. Do you do that to people in real life?
You have not been trying to have a discussion.
All you’re doing is spouting the same sentiment: “hustle matters SOOOO little it does not affect the outcome of Major League Baseball games.” We are giving you statements that debunk your statement and you keep on ignoring any truth in ALL of the statements. You think you’re right because we can’t give you a "player A who hustles gives his team a 2.0 WAR, whereas player B who does not hustle gives his team a 0.1 WAR. You’re being UNreasonable in your argument.
"Beisbol been berry berry good to me." -Tony Oliva
He's been like that whenever he argues.
In the argument when Carlos Silva was released, we gave him link after link which showed why Silva was unpopular, and he ignored all of them for one reason or another (and none of his reasons were even that good to begin with).
When I provided the link which ended the argument, I thought for sure that he would find another way to ignore that, too.
I didn't believe it last August, but it turns out that love survives.
State high point count: 3/50
If you are grouchy, irritable, or just plain mean, there will be a $10 charge for putting up with you.
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Apr 14, 2011 6:25 PM CDT up reply actions
So, lets say Sori hits a shot in the gap.
instead of hustling he loafs it thinking its gone. ends up with a single instead of a double. Next guy gets a base hit that would of scored a runner from second, instead sori stops at third. next player makes the third out. cubs lose the game by one. think about how many times through out the course of the season that happens. and you still believe the element of hustling on a play has very little impact? have you ever played sports?
by MDavis on Apr 14, 2011 2:36 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Little Husker at age 9
Husker “Mommy do you love me?”
Mommy “Of course I do”
Husker " Can you prove it mathematically?
"I'll tell you what's helped me my entire life. I look at baseball as a game. It's something where people can go out, enjoy and have fun. Nothing more."
i think it's just that you keep referring to it as
" such a small impact" , it’s one of the things that you cant quantify but makes a huge impact in the execution of the game. you could have every hit bounce off the wall, but if you walk to first your going to get thrown out at first…negative outcome, OTOH if you ran as fast as you could, you might get a triple, certainly a double and it takes one maybe two hits or sacrifices to score…positive out come. there is no stat for base to base time in the box score so we cant spout obscure numbers for laziness, but we can give them the ol eye test and see that they are in fact not going all out all of the time.
…
"There had to be a place where the game could be fun again….that place is called Wrigley Field"---Andre Dawson
One thing you learned as a Cubs fan: when you bought your ticket, you could bank on seeing the bottom of the ninth. Joe Garagiola
The "ol eye test" is very flawed.
Stats are facts.
Sometimes people only see what they want to see. So I trust the numbers.
but if there are no numbers?
i am a Aram fan… i dont think he gives 100% all the time. however i dont think he gives 40% the majority of the time either.
"There had to be a place where the game could be fun again….that place is called Wrigley Field"---Andre Dawson
One thing you learned as a Cubs fan: when you bought your ticket, you could bank on seeing the bottom of the ninth. Joe Garagiola
If there are no numbers..
Then I don’t think it’s worth complaining about at all. That’s why I take an issue when TJ spouts that crap all over every thread.
I think Rami has earned a little more respect from the fans than to be called a lazy bum constantly. But I guess some people would rather do their best to run him out of town. Whatever.
I got a little story
I use think that people who said they could prove facts with numbers was impressive. I’m not good @ math. Now I’m pretty surrounded by people who can easily be sabermagicians.
I have learned that the facts can indeed prove a theory right,. But there are times when non math variables come into play
Best example. Pat’s going for it on 4th down in their own territory instead of punting. Math supported that decision. But they were playing the Colts, something not taken into effect was that Manning was the other teams qb.
The didn’t end up getting the 4th down and put the ball in Mannings hands. The Pat’s lost the game.
Lesson math can prove many things, but there are things like who they are playing or hussle that you can’t judge.
''"I always thought I was the most competitive person out there. I never thought I'd find anybody more competitive until I met him.'' Ryan Dempster talking about Ted Lilly
by Madison Cub Fan on Apr 14, 2011 1:04 PM CDT up reply actions
and a good coach or manager
or even a poster on a forum might possibly want to think about those things before making the decision.
''"I always thought I was the most competitive person out there. I never thought I'd find anybody more competitive until I met him.'' Ryan Dempster talking about Ted Lilly
by Madison Cub Fan on Apr 14, 2011 1:05 PM CDT up reply actions
You're not reading anything I type are you?
I didn’t say there aren’t other things that come into play. But it’s not very smart to count on those things when there is no data to suggest they make a significant difference.
To your example. Just because the decision to go for it on fourth down didn’t work, doesn’t mean it was a bad decision.
You're argument reminds me of one I had in elementary school.
Between “something” and “nothing”. Kid A: nothing by definition IS nothing. Kid B: nothing HAS a definition therefore IS something
"Beisbol been berry berry good to me." -Tony Oliva
Stats can be flawed as well
A pitcher goes 15-8 with a 4.86 ERA vs. a pitcher who is 10-9 with a 3.01 ERA. Who’s the better pitcher? or a batter who constantly gets bloop singles or broken bat cue shots comapred to a guy who smashes the ball every time. stats have flaws, not always fact.
And frankly, I’ve always noticed its the guys who lack hustle that get hurt. Ironically, the guys most people don’t think hustle are Aram and Sori and they are the ones always hurt. Its because they give 70% all game, and then there’s a play they need to bust it, and thats when injuries happen. Like jumping into a cold pool, shocks your system.
I wasn't saying that's what to look at.
But it is an example of how stats can be misleading.
And yes, stats are indeed facts.
They represent things that actually happened on the baseball field. If you choose to pay attention to them then you better understand what they mean.
Never said they weren't facts.
Simply that they are flawed, just like anything else.
I did it last night and Drew got on me for saying that hustle made that inning happen.
I guess he had to defend his boy Husker!!
Did I now...
Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.
by drewishdrewid on Apr 14, 2011 1:48 PM CDT up reply actions
This thread is funny
because if I remember right I started it but thanks guys for keeping it up. Playing all out all the time does matter and not doing it has consequences.
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either
by Doggie Stalker on Apr 14, 2011 11:17 AM CDT up reply actions
Sigh........
I just don’t think it has any measurable impact on the outcome of a season. Not enough data. So it’s irrelevant. It’s like the intangibles argument so many like to have here. They also cannot be measured.
This issue seems to break down to a fundamentals vs. stats argument
Husker seems to be taking the “there’s no stats for it, and I’m not sure they would show you to be right, even if they were”
You seem to be saying “it’s a good thing, either way.” Unfortunately, you’re also specifically calling out two players for being lazy bums. That doesn’t sit well with fans of those players, including YT. Keep it to an intellectual exercise or keep it to player-bashing – mixing the two isn’t making your case either way.
"Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have?" -Frank Chance
"If [Ruth] had [called his shot], I would have knocked him down with the next pitch." -Charlie Root
but if he plays both sides
he gets attention from both sabermagicians and ones who just think by watching he isn’t lazy.
''"I always thought I was the most competitive person out there. I never thought I'd find anybody more competitive until I met him.'' Ryan Dempster talking about Ted Lilly
by Madison Cub Fan on Apr 14, 2011 12:06 PM CDT up reply actions
I think Husker and TJ...
should have their own fanpost about this so they could stop bringing it up in every thread ;)
"Well-behaved women seldom make History"---Laurel Thatcher Ulrich
by cooliogirl47 on Apr 14, 2011 12:23 PM CDT up reply actions
Husker and TJ was a great 70s cop show.
Contributing Editor, SB Nation Chicago. Please follow us on Twitter!
that was
“you know what” and the bear….
"There had to be a place where the game could be fun again….that place is called Wrigley Field"---Andre Dawson
One thing you learned as a Cubs fan: when you bought your ticket, you could bank on seeing the bottom of the ninth. Joe Garagiola
Was it ever divulged what those initials stood for?
"Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have?" -Frank Chance
"If [Ruth] had [called his shot], I would have knocked him down with the next pitch." -Charlie Root
Also, real good review, Al.
"The riches of the game are in the thrills, not the money." --Ernie Banks
I can tell when you wrote it, tho :P
"Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have?" -Frank Chance
"If [Ruth] had [called his shot], I would have knocked him down with the next pitch." -Charlie Root
Kerry Wood = Leader
Looks like he stepped back into the role again this year. Hopefully that been the missing kink the Cubs need.
by Ihatethecards on Apr 14, 2011 8:09 AM CDT reply actions 2 recs
That was super nice to see.
I’m so glad he’s back in Cubby Blue!
Believe or Leave ~Cubswynn 9/9/2008
Remember that video interview Woody did with George Castle before the season started?
He was saying he’s not going to assume he’s a leader and it’s “not his team.” I knew that was just a BS/PC answer and to give him about two weeks before he steps up…
Get 'em on, Get 'em over, Get 'em in!
Yep, very pleased that he spoke to Z after the game.
Contributing Editor, SB Nation Chicago. Please follow us on Twitter!
agree. class act all around.
I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve. -J.R.R. Tolkien
I'm impressed
''"I always thought I was the most competitive person out there. I never thought I'd find anybody more competitive until I met him.'' Ryan Dempster talking about Ted Lilly
by Madison Cub Fan on Apr 14, 2011 12:06 PM CDT up reply actions
I think Castro
should hit in the lead off spot until he cools down. He’s TOO GOOD there right now.
Believe or Leave ~Cubswynn 9/9/2008
Castro leading off is better
than anyone else on the team, Fuku, or Baker do not have the speed he has
I like it this way, too.
They’re doing the job. Don’t mess with success.
Check out Chicago sports coverage at SB Nation Chicago
Your best hitter should hit first or third, depending on
what sort of hitter he is.
According to some formula (I forget its name)
The best hitters should be in the 2 and 5 spots. Essentially the formula weighed different things and said that the most important ABs come from those spots.
this will never leave my brain thanks to my HS geometry teacher
having the class sing it to the ND fight song
"Hello again, everybody. It's a bee-yooo-tiful day for baseball."
your entire class knew the Notre Dame Fight song?
"There had to be a place where the game could be fun again….that place is called Wrigley Field"---Andre Dawson
One thing you learned as a Cubs fan: when you bought your ticket, you could bank on seeing the bottom of the ninth. Joe Garagiola
unfortunately
it’s pretty common in northwest indiana
"Hello again, everybody. It's a bee-yooo-tiful day for baseball."
sing along folks...
x equals negative b
plus or minus the square root of
b squared minus 4 ac
all over 2 a
"Hello again, everybody. It's a bee-yooo-tiful day for baseball."
We're gonna fight, fight, fight...
For IOWA!… oh wait
"Beisbol been berry berry good to me." -Tony Oliva
I think it was TJ
who said it. I like the idea of Barney playing every day and then mixing and matching with Baker in RF or 1B against lefties.
Honestly – yes – Baker rakes against lefties but something about him this season so far. Against I lefty I feel the only way he wont rake is if his BABIP takes a dive. He hits the shyt out of the ball.
"Hey.....Cubs win!!!" ---Harry
"Swung on belted!!!"---Chip
I hope so, why break up a good thing.
I keep going back to Barney and watching what he does on the field and with the bat. He’s a winner and I suspect the reason his teams won at NCAA level, A, AA and AAA is (at least a small part) of what he brings to a team. I really like this guy. 162 games will tell for sure.
We'll miss you Big Boy. #10 for Hall of Fame.
Agreed - let's see
if he can handle 2nd base full time.
by Ihatethecards on Apr 14, 2011 8:26 AM CDT up reply actions
If they continue doing well, I would hope so.
If the Cubs still have a chance, no matter how small, it’s still Go Cubs, damn the math and pass the KoolAid.
Yep.
They are hitting, and taking pitches and have some speed. There is an energy to the top of the order now – ride it as long as possible.
Agreed, Castro and Barney saw 46 pitches yesterday...
34 during a horrible game on Tuesday, and 55 on Monday.
If you can get that many pitches out of your top two batters, you’re going to be chasing pitchers early and getting the rest of the line up a very good idea of what the pitcher is throwing.
I hope so.
A lovely story:
One day, long, long ago, there lived a woman who didn't whine, nag or bitch. That would be me....
But that was a long time ago and it was just that one day.
The end
I believe Levine just posted an article
saying Quade plans to continue with those 2 at the top.
Good to hear.
A lovely story:
One day, long, long ago, there lived a woman who didn't whine, nag or bitch. That would be me....
But that was a long time ago and it was just that one day.
The end
VERY good to hear.
Shows that Quade, despite some of the odd decisions he’s made, is still willing to adapt when he sees something different is working.
Check out Chicago sports coverage at SB Nation Chicago
I recall last year
that almost everyone was insisting Castro wasn’t capable yet of handling the leadoff spot. Even this year it was said he couldn’t handle the pressure. Guess what. He’s hitting very well and is beginning to steal some bases. And Barney is taking pitches and hitting well behind him. If you look at Castro leads the team in runs and Barney is up there considering he’s had much fewer at bats. The top four in our lineup are starting long innings. Rather than mixing in inconsistent hitters the top four are all hot and producing. I’d rather have that than breaking up good innings with low OBP hitters.
Would this team be as decent offensively with Soto hitting #3 or Colvin and Fukudome leading off? It seems Castro isn’t flustered and perhaps Barney will get his respect in time. In any case, it would be nice to see a number of years with our #1 and #2 hitters locked into the top of the lineup and as our DP combination.
If a quality pitching start is 3 runs and 6 innings, then a quality hitting day is 1 for 4.
A big part of the Castro as lead-off hitter debate is/was
plate discipline and OBP.
So far this year Castro has shown better plate discipline and simply made more contact. His OBP is great… because his BA is great.
If he keeps hitting .350+ (not to mention .380), he’ll be great in that spot… but he could stand to walk more. He only has two walks this year and only 31 walks in nearly 550 PAs last year.
"Stuff like this is why they should shut off the internet."
by Orval Overall on Dec 17, 2010 1:19 PM CST
The kid has a contact zone the size of Vlad the Impalers.
why watch a pitch go by, when you know you can hit it?
"Beisbol been berry berry good to me." -Tony Oliva
You're seeing a criticism where one doesn't really exist.
A good lead-off guy needs to be high OBP. Castro will be that if he keeps his BA in the stratosphere.
I’m not opposed at all to Castro being in the lead-off spot, but it wouldn’t kill him to take a few more pitches, either.
"Stuff like this is why they should shut off the internet."
by Orval Overall on Dec 17, 2010 1:19 PM CST
He has only 4 K thus far
Sure, he swings at pitches other take and go down in the count. But Starlin makes contact with 80% 0f pitches outside the zone and an amazing 96 % of pitches in the zone. He puts the ball in play and his K rate is only 7%. His line drive rate is 26% and you want him to take more pitches like Pena?
Name another player you’d prefer to see leading off. How about Colvin or Sost? They both have more BB this year. Castro is an exceptional hitter who uses the entire field. He’s been incredible since he was moved to leadoff. Let’s not whine about his lack of walks. He sets the table. Just enjoy a 21 year old SS who will be a productive All Star for years to come.
If a quality pitching start is 3 runs and 6 innings, then a quality hitting day is 1 for 4.
ehhh
when he comes back to earth and starts missing the ball more we will be begging him to take a few pitches
He's ALWAYS been great at making contact.
That’s not something you generally lose over the long term.
Emmel was def squeezing Cub pitchers the 2nd part of the game
If you look at the Cubs batting averages for the first half of the lineup they are strong, and if Soto/Soriano can get their averages up a bit and the hits can come in a more timely fashion up and down the lineup could see some more offensive run consistency.
Nine runs was great to see. I also hope that once Fukudome comes back they don’t just stick him back at leadoff, Quade has a chance here to make a good move.
Earlier...
I thought Z was getting squeezed even earlier. Don’t remember which inning, but definitely in the first 3. There were some high inside pitches that I thought were strikes.
And then later, a terrible strike call on Soriano very low. After that pitch, Soriano was swinging if it bounced up there (not that he wouldn’t anyway)
I thought the balls and strike calls were pretty inconsistent.
To answer your question:
Feel better this morning?
About the same, really.
But thanks for asking.
WWOZ.org - New Orleans Jazz and Heritage Station
I was (again) hoping Quade would leave Marshall in for another inning
He was looking so sharp and threw only a few pitches in the seventh
That curve looks a lot better in the humidity, doesn't it?
"Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have?" -Frank Chance
"If [Ruth] had [called his shot], I would have knocked him down with the next pitch." -Charlie Root
Indeed
Woody looks the worst out of our 3 late inning relievers.
Happy 45th Birthday to Greg Maddux
& Pete Rose (70th)
(Thanks Page-a-Day calendar)
"Hello again, everybody. It's a bee-yooo-tiful day for baseball."
Maddux is 45.
Think he could take a couple turns in the rotation?
Check out Chicago sports coverage at SB Nation Chicago
I think a bench presence could do wonders
at least a few games this year
"Hello again, everybody. It's a bee-yooo-tiful day for baseball."
You beat me to it
Just have him travel with the club for the next series, might actually help
''"I always thought I was the most competitive person out there. I never thought I'd find anybody more competitive until I met him.'' Ryan Dempster talking about Ted Lilly
by Madison Cub Fan on Apr 14, 2011 9:28 AM CDT up reply actions
He would help more
if he where sitting in Jim Hendry’s office.
Trade me right f@#$ing now!
by Mister Zero on Apr 14, 2011 10:42 AM CDT up reply actions
overall yes
but for the next week, when we this awesome SP we could use any help we could get
''"I always thought I was the most competitive person out there. I never thought I'd find anybody more competitive until I met him.'' Ryan Dempster talking about Ted Lilly
by Madison Cub Fan on Apr 14, 2011 12:09 PM CDT up reply actions
If Moyer can do it...
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Just North of Wrigley Field
by jameslcrockett on Apr 15, 2011 3:22 AM CDT up reply actions
Greg Maddux
Greg Maddux and Kyle Farnsworth have the same birthday as well 10 years and a billion miles apart talent wise.
Nothing happens unless it's first a dream
by puckishcubsfan on Apr 14, 2011 10:00 AM CDT up reply actions
yeah, but i'd take maddux at pitching and Farnsworth at fighting....
"There had to be a place where the game could be fun again….that place is called Wrigley Field"---Andre Dawson
One thing you learned as a Cubs fan: when you bought your ticket, you could bank on seeing the bottom of the ninth. Joe Garagiola
Farnsworth has plenty of physical talent
It’s the mental makeup that has prevented him from doing more with it.
Maddux wins on the intelligence side – which is also talent.
by Shanghai Badger on Apr 14, 2011 10:55 AM CDT up reply actions
Beat me to it
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either
by Doggie Stalker on Apr 14, 2011 10:11 AM CDT up reply actions
god awful whistle?
did anyone else notice that ridiculously loud whistle, usually came in three “chirps”. was that a fan sitting near the camera, something that they do at the stadium, some kind of dying bird? just about drove me crazy… i also thought the background noise in general was overpowering len and bob.
great game overall (except giving up 5 runs the bottom of the sixth). i’m still a little shocked that rodriguez didn’t throw a curve after having soriano with 2 strikes in the first. but that was his mistake and our joy!!
Yes i did, i wanted to punch things...Vuvuzela(sp?) level anger...
"There had to be a place where the game could be fun again….that place is called Wrigley Field"---Andre Dawson
One thing you learned as a Cubs fan: when you bought your ticket, you could bank on seeing the bottom of the ninth. Joe Garagiola
Extremely annoying to listen to last night
The crowd noise overall was louder than normal. I had to turn up the TV to hear Len and Bob… but then that made the whistle louder too! I’m glad they’re leaving Houston.
Darwin Barney let a catchable popup drop between him and Tyler Colvin in short right field,
I put this on Colvin. He should have called Barney off.
Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.
I thought he DID call Barney off.
The way Barney reacted, it was as if he had the ball all the way, then pulled off it at the last second.
Check out Chicago sports coverage at SB Nation Chicago
I had the sound turned down
(sleeping baby) and may have missed it. I’m just sayin’, it wasn’t Barney’s fault.
Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.
by drewishdrewid on Apr 14, 2011 9:19 AM CDT up reply actions
Al
I put this in the pregame thread half way though the game….
I didn’t get a chance to read your pregame so I was reading it during the game. I read the part about Soto and the left handed pitchers out loud. I literary had just finished the sentence, and Pat brought it up in the exact same words.
''"I always thought I was the most competitive person out there. I never thought I'd find anybody more competitive until I met him.'' Ryan Dempster talking about Ted Lilly
by Madison Cub Fan on Apr 14, 2011 9:18 AM CDT reply actions
That was in the Cubs game notes...
… so Pat got it from the same source that I (and Bruce Miles) did.
Check out Chicago sports coverage at SB Nation Chicago
Here I thought Judd maybe reads BCB :)
We’ve determined Judd is good at something….
reading game notes and googling for the answers Pat and Keith ponder
''"I always thought I was the most competitive person out there. I never thought I'd find anybody more competitive until I met him.'' Ryan Dempster talking about Ted Lilly
by Madison Cub Fan on Apr 14, 2011 9:43 AM CDT up reply actions
How about a specific shout out to Soriano so far?
I’d like to see his average go up some, but he’s had a nice start in regards to power and he’s had some real clutch hits. Hopefully this continues.
by jerry morales rules on Apr 14, 2011 9:37 AM CDT reply actions
He's started hot
Let’s see how long it lasts. I didn’t like his ABs after the first inning, but that could be due to the ump (as mentioned above). Hopefully, it wasn’t a harbinger.
"Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have?" -Frank Chance
"If [Ruth] had [called his shot], I would have knocked him down with the next pitch." -Charlie Root
The second called strike was really low,
I think that had a lot to do with his eventual K.
I spent 90% of my money on women and drink. The rest I wasted - George Best
We have a really nice group of on-base guys.
We just need a real RBI machine in the 3 spot. Fielder or Pujols please.
"You win because of the quarterback. We have to get that position stabilized. We're fixated on that." -- Jerry Angelo (12.30.2008)
Jerry Angelo trades for Jay Cutler! (4.2.2009)
by SackMan on Apr 14, 2011 9:47 AM CDT via mobile reply actions
That was suposed to be Ramirez
I thought that was why he got the nice extension a few years back?
Trade me right f@#$ing now!
by Mister Zero on Apr 14, 2011 10:46 AM CDT up reply actions
The Real Star
120-some comments and none of them effusive in the praise of the game Starlin Castro had last night? Wake up guys, this kid is a star.
All he did last night was go 3-5, score a run, steal a base (on this team, that alone deserves headlines), throw a runner out at the plate on a perfect throw, make a ridiculous play in the hole to record a force out, make a just-less-than-ridiculous play on a slow roller to record an out…..fellas, this kid is a legit talent and what he’s doing at his age deserves some major ink. He’s the real deal and quite frankly, easily the best player on the field last night.
"When the day comes with that last winning run and I'm crying and covered in beer. I'll look to the sky and know I was right to think someday we'll go all the way." - Vedder
by krummy12 on Apr 14, 2011 9:48 AM CDT reply actions 1 recs
We are the Chicago Castros
"You win because of the quarterback. We have to get that position stabilized. We're fixated on that." -- Jerry Angelo (12.30.2008)
Jerry Angelo trades for Jay Cutler! (4.2.2009)
by SackMan on Apr 14, 2011 9:50 AM CDT via mobile up reply actions
like this :)
"Well-behaved women seldom make History"---Laurel Thatcher Ulrich
by cooliogirl47 on Apr 14, 2011 10:00 AM CDT up reply actions
I gave him my game MVP last night
He was just outstanding
"Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have?" -Frank Chance
"If [Ruth] had [called his shot], I would have knocked him down with the next pitch." -Charlie Root
And the Astros fans were cursing his name
Music to my ears.
"Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have?" -Frank Chance
"If [Ruth] had [called his shot], I would have knocked him down with the next pitch." -Charlie Root
Y'know what ... you're right.
We’re already showing signs of taking him for granted, and we shouldn’t.
Contributing Editor, SB Nation Chicago. Please follow us on Twitter!
yet, for his sake, I think it's a good thing for the Castro-love to be low key.
his stardom should come slowly, he needs to take it in bit by bit and let it take root. Greatness is a hard thing for a young person to deal with.
"Well-behaved women seldom make History"---Laurel Thatcher Ulrich
by cooliogirl47 on Apr 14, 2011 9:59 AM CDT up reply actions
I know he'll be on the ballot
I think we need to make sure Castro makes it to the ASG this year…
The kid is playing phenomenally and so far deserves to be there…
R.I.P. Ronnie Santo... you will be missed...
yes
"Well-behaved women seldom make History"---Laurel Thatcher Ulrich
by cooliogirl47 on Apr 14, 2011 10:01 AM CDT up reply actions
I have full confidence in Cubs fans
ability to stuff the ballot box.
Baseball is back!!
by cowsarecool220 on Apr 14, 2011 11:28 AM CDT up reply actions
It's a Chicago voting system...
Vote Early, Vote Often…
R.I.P. Ronnie Santo... you will be missed...
I won't be too disappointed...
since he’s up against Tulowitzki. But I hope it’s not because Chicago fans don’t stuff the ballot box, which I definitely will.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Just North of Wrigley Field
by jameslcrockett on Apr 15, 2011 3:25 AM CDT up reply actions
reply fail....
and also looks extremely confident at the plate
"Hello again, everybody. It's a bee-yooo-tiful day for baseball."
We've just gotten used to it
He needs to find a new level. Flying 40’ into the air to snag a line drive would be a good start…
one word: relevance?
I guess I'm just a worrier, that's why my friends call me whiskers
by Nunyabidness on Apr 14, 2011 10:17 AM CDT up reply actions
Anybody watch JUSTIFIED?
Bloody brilliant episode last night.
"The riches of the game are in the thrills, not the money." --Ernie Banks
I had Chicago sports coming out of my ears last night,
no TV time for anything else.
I spent 90% of my money on women and drink. The rest I wasted - George Best
Lights Out ended perfectly.
I liked it better than Terriers simply because of Colt’s performance. And the big black dude—the trainer. He was magical. And David Morse.
"The riches of the game are in the thrills, not the money." --Ernie Banks
DVR'd for tonight
…Olyphant plays that style of role (See Deadwood) brilliantly
"All I want is food and creative love" - Rusted Root
by TheRiot Police on Apr 14, 2011 11:58 AM CDT up reply actions
I'll watch it later.
Was surprised at how much hype last week’s episode got.
GM's are in charge of Managers, not the other way around.
Last night Z
I actually thought Z took a little step forward. The old Z explodes on the mound and the Cubs have to pay the Astros for a new gatorade cooler.
I didn’t see it live I saw a replay. I heard Z exploded while leaving the mound. Typical yellow journalism on the radio.
Nothing happens unless it's first a dream
NOT WGN
The Score of course.
Nothing happens unless it's first a dream
by puckishcubsfan on Apr 14, 2011 9:59 AM CDT up reply actions
but then how else will
Jim Rome get paid?
"There had to be a place where the game could be fun again….that place is called Wrigley Field"---Andre Dawson
One thing you learned as a Cubs fan: when you bought your ticket, you could bank on seeing the bottom of the ninth. Joe Garagiola
Is that essential?
"Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have?" -Frank Chance
"If [Ruth] had [called his shot], I would have knocked him down with the next pitch." -Charlie Root
Being near LA
I have no choice but to hear Rome and Kellerman a lot. FWIW Rome knows sports. I know he can be a complete idiot a lot but still
On the other BRACE YOURSELF Kellerman was talking about how he liked the Dodgers because to their intangibles and went on and on about that reason. AARON MILES – he was gushing on him how he once hit .300 started for TLR etc. I almost drove off the road.
"Hey.....Cubs win!!!" ---Harry
"Swung on belted!!!"---Chip
there is one show
on in Des Moines that is good sports talk radio – Murph and Andy – 1460 from 2-4…very good reasonable discussion about sports…
He did not exploded
He took his hat off, put it on his glove, pointed to the sky and walked to the dugout. Unless he blew up in the dugout…he was contained.
He did leave the mound before Quade took the ball from him…
"All I want is food and creative love" - Rusted Root
by TheRiot Police on Apr 14, 2011 12:00 PM CDT up reply actions
Didn't Z break a cooler once?
How did this turn into something he did after every bad start?
by Husker_1 on Apr 14, 2011 11:15 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Much needed W as they
head to Coors Field . Rockies are playing good ball . Lets hope the Cubs will also .
Starlin Castro......that is all. :D
A lovely story:
One day, long, long ago, there lived a woman who didn't whine, nag or bitch. That would be me....
But that was a long time ago and it was just that one day.
The end
What about dudes who look like ladies?
Contributing Editor, SB Nation Chicago. Please follow us on Twitter!
Take your chances looking for
Girls who are boys
Who like boys to be girls
Who do boys like they’re girls
Who do girls like they’re boys
Always should be someone you really love
"Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have?" -Frank Chance
"If [Ruth] had [called his shot], I would have knocked him down with the next pitch." -Charlie Root
Geo
is jealous, Sue.
Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.
by drewishdrewid on Apr 14, 2011 1:53 PM CDT up reply actions
It was sweet to finally watch the Cubs win a game
RIP Ronnie James Dio (July 10, 1942 - May 16, 2010) and Ron Santo (February 25, 1940-December 2, 2010).
If you disagree with me in any way, you are wrong.
It had only been one day since the last one,
but I know what you mean.
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either
by Doggie Stalker on Apr 14, 2011 11:20 AM CDT up reply actions
For WGN-only folks (like me!)
It was the first one we got to watch.
"Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have?" -Frank Chance
"If [Ruth] had [called his shot], I would have knocked him down with the next pitch." -Charlie Root
Slightly OT, anybody else worried the Cubs are repeating the same mistakes...
…they have made the last couple years, when it comes to a veteran’s injury. Pena is still bothered by the thumb and is hitting nothing at all. Yet there’s Quade praising Pena’s toughness, and saying that they will stay patient. If Pena does not hit homeruns he brings very little value to the team. DL him until he is healthy enough to hit for some power.
I am a traveler of both time and space to be where I have been. Robert Plant 1975
If it goes through the weekend...
…. and it’s still bothering him, then yes, they should DL him.
Colvin could play 1B.
Check out Chicago sports coverage at SB Nation Chicago
And/Or Baker. He's hitting well enough to deserve some starts against a RHP.
"Stuff like this is why they should shut off the internet."
by Orval Overall on Dec 17, 2010 1:19 PM CST
Peña sat until he was a defensive replacement (in the 9th) yesterday
That may have primarily been because of the Baker vs. LHP thing, but it had the effect of doing exactly what you’re asking for. Let’s see if that becomes a trend.
"Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have?" -Frank Chance
"If [Ruth] had [called his shot], I would have knocked him down with the next pitch." -Charlie Root
That's not exactly what I am asking for..
..if he is hurt and it is affecting his ability to swing the bat. Then he needs to go on the DL. Soriano in 09, Lee and Ramirez in 10, and now Pena in 11. All 4 veterans who appear to be significantly affected by fairly benign injuries, and management has let them all attempt to play through it, to the detriment of the team and the player. This strategy hasn’t worked in the past and doesn’t appear to be working now.
I am a traveler of both time and space to be where I have been. Robert Plant 1975
Let's run with that scenario
Who do you bring up to sit on the bench? One of the kids who should be playing everyday to keep developing their skills, or a journeyman like Scales who is used to the Iowa Shuttle? Or do limit Peña’s PT to being a defensive replacement and limit the damage he can do to the team at the plate while his thumb is on the mend?
I think comparing this situation to Ramirez and Lee is a poor analogy – Lou seemed unaware they were hurt at first, hoping they could break their slumps on their own, unwilling to take the potential of those bats out of the lineup. And when it became painfully apparent, even to Lou, that they needed time off, they got it. Peña has divulged his injury and judging from yesterday’s action, they seem to have found a workaround that keeps an effective element of his game (glove) around while limiting the part that his injury is affecting most.
"Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have?" -Frank Chance
"If [Ruth] had [called his shot], I would have knocked him down with the next pitch." -Charlie Root
You really think that Lou didn't know that
Rami and Lee were banged up. I know he seemed out of touch, but I don’t think he was that out of touch. Is the situation identical? Of course not, but here we have another scenario, where it appears the Cubs are giving unneccessary deference to a hurt player simply because he is a veteran.
As for who should be called up, given the problem with the pitching staff, why not another pitcher? I know it limits your bench, but that seems to be the team’s biggest need right now.
I am a traveler of both time and space to be where I have been. Robert Plant 1975
Our bench is limited either way
If you DL Peña, the only thing you’re removing from the 25-man is a late-inning glove. I think it makes little difference to DL him and call up another pitcher to take his spot, unless the doc thinks he can be back to 100% before 4/28.
And I do believe that Lou thought (at first) that Lee and Rami were just slumping. If he’d thought they were trying to play through something, I imagine he would have either gotten them more rest or moved them out of the 3-4 positions in the lineup.
Damn, that was maddening.
My thinking here is that we’ve got a player with a ding that needs rest. Quade has gotten him that rest by starting Colvin and Baker for him, and is treating a jammed thumb as day-to-day. Check out his swing in BP, and if nothing improves over the next week, DL him and get someone up who can actually play more than an inning at a time. That’s a very different approach than writing his name into the same spot in the lineup with indelible ink and hoping that divine intervention will magically make him able to make contact again.
"Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have?" -Frank Chance
"If [Ruth] had [called his shot], I would have knocked him down with the next pitch." -Charlie Root
I don't disagree, really, but...
…you are missing 1 huge point. Quade has said he is most concerned with Pena’s thumb in regards to his defense, not his offense.
I am a traveler of both time and space to be where I have been. Robert Plant 1975
No matter which way you slice it
Peña hasn’t been seeing a lot of PT. Having two viable backups for him should make the decision to DL him or not easier.
"Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have?" -Frank Chance
"If [Ruth] had [called his shot], I would have knocked him down with the next pitch." -Charlie Root
But, but, but...
We were told that Quade would not do things the way Lou did them.
At least that’s what I read this winter on this site.
Derrek Lee's not batting third
Shows Quade’s really thinking outside the box.
GM's are in charge of Managers, not the other way around.
by shoemile on Apr 14, 2011 1:22 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
It sure looked like he wouldn't do things that way.
I hope the first 12 games are not an indicator.
Check out Chicago sports coverage at SB Nation Chicago
Or, maybe you should take my advice not to listen to anything a new coach says....
…. for better or worse.
I can almost 100% guarantee you that there is an "injury" that someone doesn’t go on the DL for this year.
http://www.bleedcubbieblue.com/2011/1/16/1938211/2011-cubs-convention-accountability#57038845
People should stop paying attention to what the manager says.
Anyone else intrigued by Kerry Wood
learning Rivera’s cutter in NY?
If only he had learned that pitch or perhaps a change back in say 2001,
we might have gotten the Kerry Wood that everybody expected, a dominant long term ace.
I am a traveler of both time and space to be where I have been. Robert Plant 1975
It wasn't his lack of a cutter...
…that didn’t make him an ace, it was because he couldn’t stay healthy.
by troutfishin on Apr 14, 2011 12:01 PM CDT up reply actions
Missed my point...
…had he developed another pitch, he wouldn’t had to have thrown so much breaking stuff, which is what I believe doomed him to an injury filled career.
I am a traveler of both time and space to be where I have been. Robert Plant 1975
He had been throwing a "slurve" throughout...
…high school and his early professional career, that didn’t help for a developing arm but that fact that he was overused in high school probably had more to do with his future problems. Wood was a phenom high school pitcher and his idiot high school coach had no problem pitching him in both games of a double header.
by troutfishin on Apr 14, 2011 12:53 PM CDT up reply actions
Wood was a phenom high school pitcher and his idiot high school coach had no problem pitching him in both games of a double header.
And that one incident was the cause of every arm problem he’s ever had? Highly unlikely.
Check out Chicago sports coverage at SB Nation Chicago
Are you sure he only abused his arm once?
Since he had no problem doing that, I have no problem assuming he did other brutal things to Kid K’s arm.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Just North of Wrigley Field
by jameslcrockett on Apr 15, 2011 3:29 AM CDT up reply actions
We don't know.
troutfishin was implying that all of Wood’s arm troubles stemmed from that one incident.
Check out Chicago sports coverage at SB Nation Chicago
Wood threw a pitch to Prince Fielder in 2008
in a late-season game with the bases loaded, two out in the ninth and the Cubs leading by a run. It was a slurvy-type pitch, and it buckled Fielder’s knees for strike three.
It might be one of the best pitches I’ve ever seen.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Apr 14, 2011 6:19 PM CDT up reply actions
It's definitely an intriguing development.
I just hope Kerry can cut down on the deep fly balls.
Contributing Editor, SB Nation Chicago. Please follow us on Twitter!
That may just be the kind of pitcher he is now
"Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have?" -Frank Chance
"If [Ruth] had [called his shot], I would have knocked him down with the next pitch." -Charlie Root
Marmolaide is a treat
Watching Carlos Marmol is amazing. He is coming into his own and will become one of those that we will believe “The Game is Over” – ala Sutter or Smitty, for us Cub fans.
We really have not had someone of this caliber since the above.
Its painful to watch Carlos Pena at the plate however. Was hoping he’d get off the schneid when joining a new league/club.
$10MM, and stats worse than Lyle Overbay, for twice the price!
I hope we see better results from this guy, and soon, or the Wrigley faithful will start to razz him.
Randy Myers.
"You've got to get your damn shirts rolled up and go out and kick somebody's ass. That's what you've got to do. Period." -- Lou Piniella
Did you also post that
In all of the FanPosts and FanShots canonizing the lad?
"Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have?" -Frank Chance
"If [Ruth] had [called his shot], I would have knocked him down with the next pitch." -Charlie Root
Who's Sam Fuld?
I've come to the conclusion that the two most important things in life are good friends and a good bullpen. ~Bob Lemon, 1981
No
I’M SAM FULD!
Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.
by drewishdrewid on Apr 14, 2011 1:55 PM CDT up reply actions
You want more? Here's more. Photo taken at last year's Cubs Convention
Check out Chicago sports coverage at SB Nation Chicago
wow
the Cubs Convention was bigger than I thought… and in New York!
Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.
by drewishdrewid on Apr 14, 2011 3:24 PM CDT up reply actions
LOL
They had a heck of a time getting that scoreboard into the convention hall, too.
Check out Chicago sports coverage at SB Nation Chicago
Well, this is Sam Fuld we're talking about.
Contributing Editor, SB Nation Chicago. Please follow us on Twitter!
shouldn't they be calling it
The Sam Fuld Show and Cubs Expo In the Annex?
Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.
by drewishdrewid on Apr 14, 2011 4:29 PM CDT up reply actions
His eyes!
They burn through my soul!
Contributing Editor, SB Nation Chicago. Please follow us on Twitter!
They do at that
Upps – Wrong Fuld…
If the Cubs still have a chance, no matter how small, it’s still Go Cubs, damn the math and pass the KoolAid.
Distant cousins
seriously.
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either
by Doggie Stalker on Apr 14, 2011 8:09 PM CDT up reply actions
Winning
One neat thing so far is that opposing starting pitchers have been LHPs in 5 games already and the Cubs have won 80% (4 of the 5 games). I didn’t think the Cubs would see that many LHPs especially in the first half of the season. I had figured they would face about 15 lefties tops in the first half.
This Colorado series is going to be tough.
If the Cubs can straighten-out the rotation, before too long, this team might be able to win more even when facing RHPs.
A Win's a Win
I’m just very glad they won last night.
Meet Keith Moreland! Click here for more information or email me!
Keep that Q Train rollin' in '11. Let's win it for Ronnie.
Well, I take a BCB break for a little more than 24 hours ...
and Husker gets into it with seemingly all the other regulars AND Al about how unless something can be quantified, it’s irrelevant. It probably wasn’t funny while it was happening, but it’s hilarious to read a few hours later.
Which is why part of me wishes I’d be around this morning to get in on the fun. Part of me is very happy I wasn’t here, for the simple fact that I would have probably spent my morning debating with you know who.
Oh, and to be clear ...
Husker’s argument is ridiculous.
You know,
Captain Zapp Brannigan never needed such astute evidence to believe ANYTHING.
"Beisbol been berry berry good to me." -Tony Oliva
ISWYDT
If the Cubs still have a chance, no matter how small, it’s still Go Cubs, damn the math and pass the KoolAid.
I was thinking it was from This Island Earth
But didn’t see Crow, Mike/Joel, or Tom Servo so I got confused
we could take a poll and that will prove it with numbers...
"There had to be a place where the game could be fun again….that place is called Wrigley Field"---Andre Dawson
One thing you learned as a Cubs fan: when you bought your ticket, you could bank on seeing the bottom of the ninth. Joe Garagiola
Will you be writing the FanPost?
"Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have?" -Frank Chance
"If [Ruth] had [called his shot], I would have knocked him down with the next pitch." -Charlie Root
You have no proof the sky is not green.
All of you assume it’s blue, but I want some proof that it isn’t green.
I didn't believe it last August, but it turns out that love survives.
State high point count: 3/50
If you are grouchy, irritable, or just plain mean, there will be a $10 charge for putting up with you.
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Apr 14, 2011 6:36 PM CDT up reply actions
I actually kind of side with Husker on this one
Now, I’m not going to argue that without numbers I can definitively say that “hustle” is meaningless.
But, for the amount of time that is spent whining about the hustle of some of our best players, I would like to see a little more evidence that it is one of the primary factors that we are losing games.
Frankly, I think the laziness of Soriano and Aram is way overstated, and will have almost no effect on the outcome of the Cubs season.
by JSB on Apr 14, 2011 3:38 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
That's not what Husker was saying, JSB.
You’re saying that intangibles are overrated. He was saying that unless something can be mathematically proven, it’s irrelevant.
I don't think that was really the gist of what he was saying though
I think the main point is that many of us are tired of reading about how lazy some of our players are considering it is practically irrelevant to the success of the team.
by JSB on Apr 14, 2011 3:49 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Direct quote:
I just don’t think it has any measurable impact on the outcome of a season. Not enough data. So it’s irrelevant. It’s like the intangibles argument so many like to have here. They also cannot be measured.
Well, I wouldn't build a team based on hustle as a factor
So, in that sense maybe it is irrelevant.
I liked the argument I saw on one of the saber sites about Bonds. That while intangibles generally shouldn’t be considered, Bonds was such a jerk that teams didn’t want him in the clubhouse, even teams that use pure sabermetric analysis.
At the extreme outliers, perhaps “hustle” matters. But, in the context of the vast majority of players, it probably is irrelevant.
But you're using words to couch your opinions and thoughts.
THAT’s what was missing earlier from the other poster, JSB. He wasn’t using words like “perhaps,” “probably” or “maybe.” He didn’t say that he thought some BCBers overrate hustle. He said that hustle was irrelevant because it couldn’t be measured. And I don’t see where he backed off that.
It’s fine to say what you’re saying — overrating hustle isn’t new. But when you conclusively say that it’s irrelevant, and then you call other people childish?
What’s the line from Airplane? Irony can be pretty ironic at times, I believe.
I haven't followed the whole thing from the beginning
But is it possible that he was pushed to that extreme viewpoint?
"Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have?" -Frank Chance
"If [Ruth] had [called his shot], I would have knocked him down with the next pitch." -Charlie Root
I know, right?
"Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have?" -Frank Chance
"If [Ruth] had [called his shot], I would have knocked him down with the next pitch." -Charlie Root
Sure, it's possible.
But if he said it, he said it.
I’d have to go through the thread again to see who said what when. But frankly, I don’t think it’s all that significant. If you make a comment with no wiggle room, you either stick by it, or you back off it.
And the poster apparently stuck by it. I also don’t feel bad using the adjectives I chose given the adjectives (and nouns) that poster threw at other people.
And we all agree that...
Byrd’s hustle allowed a 5 run inning to ensue, and the Cubs NEEDED all 5 runs
"Beisbol been berry berry good to me." -Tony Oliva
I'm with you on this one
You gotta be able to modulate your language and remember that (good) debate isn’t personal. But I think I kinda understand where the guy is coming from. As other posters began to overrate an intangible more and more, the urge to underrate it in counter-argument becomes tempting, possibly to that extreme.
The trouble here is that someone concentrated on a prolific poster’s hobby horse (one of many) and got tunnel-vision while trying to prove a point, to the point of parody.
"Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have?" -Frank Chance
"If [Ruth] had [called his shot], I would have knocked him down with the next pitch." -Charlie Root
I came sooooo close to posting this while all that was going on
I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve. -J.R.R. Tolkien
It's appropriate
Any time the “discussion” gets squeezed to the right margin for more than a page. IMHO, of course.
"Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have?" -Frank Chance
"If [Ruth] had [called his shot], I would have knocked him down with the next pitch." -Charlie Root
Your previous comments are spot on, Clutch.
We’ve probably all been guilty of taking something too far at one point or another. I know I have been.
I still think the fact that there was so little wiggle room in the poster’s comments is significant. If he had said what JSB said, it’s a whole different ballgame.
Kinda like...
Go tell your real-life friends you got into a fight in an internet thread, and see which one laughs first.
"Hello again, everybody. It's a bee-yooo-tiful day for baseball."
real friends?
you guys already know about the argument why do i have to retell it?
"There had to be a place where the game could be fun again….that place is called Wrigley Field"---Andre Dawson
One thing you learned as a Cubs fan: when you bought your ticket, you could bank on seeing the bottom of the ninth. Joe Garagiola
I think the alleged laziness of Soriano and Ramirez is way overstated, too
But I don’t think “hustle” is something that can be discounted or pooh-poohed.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Apr 14, 2011 6:21 PM CDT up reply actions
I think Pete Rose gave the term a bad name by converting into a personal brand name for his showboating
Maybe it would be better served by the term golfers use – “grinding,” which means focusing on every shot an never giving up on a hole or a round. Because you never when the leader will shoot 80 or the opposing pitcher will lose the strike zone and that hole/play you gave up on will matter.
by ClarkFan on Apr 14, 2011 7:52 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Is there any point he makes which ISN'T ridiculous?
I didn't believe it last August, but it turns out that love survives.
State high point count: 3/50
If you are grouchy, irritable, or just plain mean, there will be a $10 charge for putting up with you.
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Apr 14, 2011 6:28 PM CDT up reply actions
He didn't say he was leaving forever
Just taking a time-out. It’s something I think we can all use from time to time.
"Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have?" -Frank Chance
"If [Ruth] had [called his shot], I would have knocked him down with the next pitch." -Charlie Root
this site is like crack
you swear you are going to give it up and sure enough a few hours later you are jonesing for the next stupid fanshot, the next writeup from Al or the next debate about the provability/value of hustle
Exactly.
And, of course, I’m just kidding.
Contributing Editor, SB Nation Chicago. Please follow us on Twitter!
I do have a question about last night.
So, Zambrano’s line looks pretty unimpressive. Did he pitch better than that, but did the Barney/Colvin goof in right skew his numbers?
Here’s why I ask: I’m glad Z is 2-0 and seemingly a matured person (so far). But he’s been more workmanlike this season than acelike, as far as I’m concerned.
Not an ace.
Definitely not an ace.
I'm an excellent poster.
by Raymond Babbitt on Apr 14, 2011 3:28 PM CDT up reply actions
Sorry.
If you’re going to pull this “Rain Man” act every time you post, you will be asked to leave. It’s not funny and not contributive to the discussion here.
Check out Chicago sports coverage at SB Nation Chicago
He looked pretty decent through 5
Throwing a lot of pitches, but locating fairly well. I don’t think he was as mad about the ball that dropped as he was about getting squeezed. And I think the “Is Z an ace?” debate has concluded.
"Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have?" -Frank Chance
"If [Ruth] had [called his shot], I would have knocked him down with the next pitch." -Charlie Root
The way Pat and Keith were telling it.
He has picked up more movement on his pitches, while losing velocity. Now he is more workmanlike, and with decent defense behind him, he can be dominant. not an ace though
"Beisbol been berry berry good to me." -Tony Oliva
I think the Barney/Colvin goof skewed his numbers.
He was sailing along pretty well until then.
Check out Chicago sports coverage at SB Nation Chicago
Thanks, everybody.
Based on your comments, and from what I’ve seen, I think Z is headed toward, maybe already at home in, Tapani Country. Essentially, he’ll be good enough post an ERA around 3.75 and win 15 games.
That’s probably not worth $18 million. But considering where Z appeared to be heading last June in the Cell, I’ll take it, I suppose.
I think he'll do better than that.
Last year, even with the horrid start and bullpen stint, he posted a 3.33 ERA.
Worth $18 million? You’re right, probably not.
Check out Chicago sports coverage at SB Nation Chicago
Fair enough.
I do think the calmer Z will hang in games longer and pick up more wins despite regularly going 6+ and giving up 4 runs. Which actually sounds like Dempster Country, now that I think about it.
Point is, he’s not as dominant as he used to be. But if he’s calmer, we’re going to have fewer 4-inning meltdowns AND fewer 8-inning shutouts.
Exactly.
Z’s ERA has seemed to even out through a season, where only his absolute meltdowns and absolute dominating games resonate in the brain. Now I agree we should see more consistent “liveable” starts
"Beisbol been berry berry good to me." -Tony Oliva
speaking of where Z's heading...
whats the over under on him still pitching after next year.
with or without the cubs?
"There had to be a place where the game could be fun again….that place is called Wrigley Field"---Andre Dawson
One thing you learned as a Cubs fan: when you bought your ticket, you could bank on seeing the bottom of the ninth. Joe Garagiola
I don't see the comparison
Wakefield isn’t a regular starter and makes $2 million/year. He is also way worse than Z.
he'll be with us until he's 44
and throw 65 mph forkballs?
"There had to be a place where the game could be fun again….that place is called Wrigley Field"---Andre Dawson
One thing you learned as a Cubs fan: when you bought your ticket, you could bank on seeing the bottom of the ninth. Joe Garagiola
That's the connection.
Maybe the same number of World Series trophies as Wakefield…
"Beisbol been berry berry good to me." -Tony Oliva
Z will be with us into his twilight years.
That’s where the connection stopped. I wouldn’t mind Z being around for a couple WS championship from the Cubs. Just regular off-day banter, not trying to impress people by comparing players.
"Beisbol been berry berry good to me." -Tony Oliva
He'd take a pay cut Kerry Wood style, don't you think?
"Beisbol been berry berry good to me." -Tony Oliva
Tapani Country, Dempster Country
You starting a T-shirt business, eg? :)
by Not Bruce Froemming on Apr 14, 2011 6:24 PM CDT up reply actions
Ryan Dempster, born May 3, 1977.
Opening day starter. 6.30 ERA, 4 HR allowed in 20 IP. 1-2 on the season.
Of course, definitely have to be worried about Zambrano.
I'm an excellent poster.
by Raymond Babbitt on Apr 14, 2011 3:32 PM CDT up reply actions
Hmmm. Good question.
He was really good for the last two months of 2010.
I didn't get that far into projections -- I rarely do.
I guess my larger point is that Z has become a calmer, mid-tier starter instead of the volatile, ace-like starter he was back in say 2006.
Also ...
part of the reason I asked the question was that I saw the pregame with Len and Bob last night and Bob said something about how Z was “dealing” in Milwaukee. I wasn’t able to watch most of last night’s game, but I don’t think Z was anywhere close to dealing against the Brewcrew.
It didn't seem like "dealing" to me either.
6 IP, 4ER, 3BB. Bob was sugar coating it. I’m sure he dealt to a few hitters.
"Beisbol been berry berry good to me." -Tony Oliva
He actually has been quite a bit this season
I hope its not because he was “talked to” by Cubs management.
His tone has softened quite a bit from last season. I hope its just a “I’m gonna give these guys a chance before I start ripping on them” thing, but the Ricketts are so image conscious I wonder.
I guess I'm just a worrier, that's why my friends call me whiskers
by Nunyabidness on Apr 14, 2011 5:38 PM CDT up reply actions
the announcers
are employed by the team. That’s why they’re the same even when the game switches broadcasters (except for FOX and/or ESPN, of course).
Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.
by drewishdrewid on Apr 15, 2011 1:24 PM CDT up reply actions
Giving the team a chance?
That’s not allowed! We lost our first game of the year! To the fergawdsakes Pirates! We obviously will never do anything! Why doesn’t Bob represent my viewpoint?!? Fire Quade, fire Hendry, fire Kenney, fire Ricketts, fire Bob, and fire Len!
"Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have?" -Frank Chance
"If [Ruth] had [called his shot], I would have knocked him down with the next pitch." -Charlie Root
by Clutch16 on Apr 14, 2011 7:03 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
I think he was "dealing" up until the 6th.
2 of the walks and 3 of the ER were in the 6th. Or have we covered that?
"Hello again, everybody. It's a bee-yooo-tiful day for baseball."
We hadn't covered that here.
I’m sure they covered it after the game.
Two straight starts of dealing through 5. I’m intrigued by this from Z. If he can build up that arm strength just a bit more to get through 7 IP, tickle me pleased.
"Beisbol been berry berry good to me." -Tony Oliva
The arm strength is there,
he needs to build up mid-season form stamina and be more efficient with his energy. I thought anger management class would have addressed that.
"Hello again, everybody. It's a bee-yooo-tiful day for baseball."
That's a better way of saying it.
Not arm strength, stamina. He will never be efficient consistently with his pitches. The Cubs must preach strikeout numbers throughout the system.
"Beisbol been berry berry good to me." -Tony Oliva
I was there, eg, and he certainly wasn't dealing
He wasn’t awful, but he wasn’t great, either. He made a couple of stupid pitches at stupid times, and it bit him in the rear end a little.
That said, I have no problem with Z so far this season.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Apr 14, 2011 6:26 PM CDT up reply actions
He scratched through, really
Kind of nasty WHIP, but managed to avoid giving up many runs. Some of that luck has to run out. But if he could be that pitcher who finds a way through, that’s not bad.
Expect? No.
Hope? Yes.
"You've got to get your damn shirts rolled up and go out and kick somebody's ass. That's what you've got to do. Period." -- Lou Piniella
He was very sharp through 5.
A few bad breaks blew up that inning. He’s not pitching like an ace, but he’s been better than Dempster.
"You've got to get your damn shirts rolled up and go out and kick somebody's ass. That's what you've got to do. Period." -- Lou Piniella
nothing wrong
with being a workman. :D
He’s winning.
Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.
by drewishdrewid on Apr 14, 2011 4:36 PM CDT up reply actions
Well, for $18 million a season the Cubs should be getting more production
I blame Hendry more than Z. But he isn’t really an $18 million player.
Hindsight is 20/20.
At the time he was worth $18 million, or at least to keep him from Yankee pinstripes. Now you may have been of the persuasion that you didn’t want Z around in the mid 2000s, I don’t know that.
"Beisbol been berry berry good to me." -Tony Oliva
the salaries are ridiculous
I don’t even pay attention to them anymore. If he wins 18 games, I’ll be overjoyed, 13 games and I’ll be happy.
Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.
by drewishdrewid on Apr 14, 2011 4:43 PM CDT up reply actions
Too bad the win is a horrific measure of a pitchers production
Z has never been an elite starter, and hasn’t been an all-star caliber starter since about 2005. He was already trending down when the Cubs signed him to his monster deal.
Z is one of my favorite players, but I have to admit that I severely overrated him when the Cubs signed him to that deal. The Cubs paid for potential production when Z had already peaked as a player.
To me
, in casual conversation, saying a pitcher will win X games is moreso saying that he will do great, good, bad, horrific this year….much easier to say that a starter will throw up 20 wins this year (meaning Ace-like production) than to say he will have a WHIP around 1.1 and an FIP of (whatever the hell is Ace-like)
Posting on a message board isn't exactly casual conversation
I don’t throw out FIP in casual conversation, but then again most of the people I know don’t post on message boards about the Cubs.
at times, yes there is some serious debate
but the light of the convo there wasnt serious sabermetric debate
Maybe they are
but the win is a great measure of team production. So I’m ok with it.
Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.
by drewishdrewid on Apr 15, 2011 1:25 PM CDT up reply actions
You can't just write off salaries.
If Z was making $18 million while being a No. 3 starter AND the Cubs were still contending, it would be one thing. But he’s an $18 million pitcher on a team with a ton of bad contracts that has been over .500 exactly once since the end of 2009.
Disagree completely
The mess of contracts that were signed years ago is one of the reasons the Cubs aren’t an elite team right now.
Management can't fix those contracts, but they had better learn from them
Even if the lesson is “don’t keep the guy who offered them……”
so losing sleep,
getting ulcers and having explosive diarrhea now will help the fact that Z and Sori are overpaid?
by hansman1982 on Apr 14, 2011 7:56 PM CDT up reply actions 2 recs
Are we doing any of those things?
This is a Cubs blog. If certain bad contracts are hurting the team, why shouldn’t they be discussed as such.
Right...
but they could have stopped doling out the bad contracts. Instead, they keep compounding mistakes.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Just North of Wrigley Field
by jameslcrockett on Apr 15, 2011 3:39 AM CDT up reply actions
I don't mind Z at $18mil as much...
but you can’t give him that kind of money and then go cheap with the rest of your roster. If you’re not going to spend at a Phillies level (much less the Yankees and Red Sox), you can’t put that % of your payroll into any one player and expect to have a contending roster. The variance is just too high.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Just North of Wrigley Field
by jameslcrockett on Apr 15, 2011 3:39 AM CDT up reply actions
The Cubs gave away four questionable contracts in the past five-plus years.
Soriano (and I no longer will debate who’s to blame on that one), Zambrano, Bradley and Kosuke.
Almost no one would defend the Bradley contract, because it was laughable to give three years to a guy with so much baggage. I personally hate the Kosuke contract, because while Kosuke hasn’t been a disaster, Hendry (and yes, other GMs) clearly were off when evaluating his abilities. The Soriano deal was a mistake, because giving that many years to a toolsy player in his 30s was a bad idea.
The Z contract, to me, is the least objectionable. Z was younger than the other guys, he was from our organization, he arguably took a discount to stay and it is harder to find a good (not great) starting pitcher than it is to find a platoon right fielder or a left fielder who hits sixth or seventh. I know Kosuke and Soriano were signed to do other things, but the point is that Z has fulfilled the role he was signed to fill, IMO. That is, when he hasn’t been suspended.
Z isn’t the pitcher he once was, and his failure to mature through half of 2010 was really discouraging. Still, of the four questionable contracts, Z’s is the one that doesn’t bother me much. I’m sure others will have different opinions.
it seems that
the league has had a hard time adjusting to the style of play that they have in Japan…Dice-K is a prime example…hearlded as the next coming of Cy Young and he is and ok 5th starter for the Sox…something about the Japanese leagues just must not translate well to MLB.
What made me think of this was Schilling last night on Baseball Tonight – he said that a 3-2 count is an honorable thing in Japan…I think this could show the completely different attitude about things that are obsessed about in the MLB and I HOPE that the Cubs execs bid smart on future “superstars” coming over from Japan.
why am i not surprised that muskat took the time to answer a question about trading dewitt, barney, and baker
straight up for aaron hill
He's my Hossa
HO-HO-HO-HO-HOSSA
She's a pro
She handles every question from her legions of adoring fan.
"Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have?" -Frank Chance
"If [Ruth] had [called his shot], I would have knocked him down with the next pitch." -Charlie Root
Muskat's blog: the source for "hard hitting" "journal"
He's my Hossa
HO-HO-HO-HO-HOSSA
by jesus christos on Apr 14, 2011 5:12 PM CDT up reply actions
"ism"
He's my Hossa
HO-HO-HO-HO-HOSSA
by jesus christos on Apr 14, 2011 5:12 PM CDT up reply actions
Hey, why cover real issues when you can waste space on video game trades
I guess I'm just a worrier, that's why my friends call me whiskers
by Nunyabidness on Apr 14, 2011 5:41 PM CDT up reply actions
Who should the Cubs start next Tuesday?
Tuesday is next in line for “night of the living bullpen”, correct?
"Beisbol been berry berry good to me." -Tony Oliva
I'm hoping for Diamond.
But I bet it’s our boy Shark.
and a
I guess I'm just a worrier, that's why my friends call me whiskers
by Nunyabidness on Apr 14, 2011 5:40 PM CDT up reply actions
that never gets old...
"Chicago baseball fans, who are composites of scar tissue and mortifying memories..." - George F. Will
Avatar provided courtesy of AndrewJStone.
...
I didn't believe it last August, but it turns out that love survives.
State high point count: 3/50
If you are grouchy, irritable, or just plain mean, there will be a $10 charge for putting up with you.
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Apr 14, 2011 9:44 PM CDT up reply actions
Rockies sweep the doubleheader,
6-5 and 9-4. Now they head to Denver for our game against them tomorrow.
I didn't believe it last August, but it turns out that love survives.
State high point count: 3/50
If you are grouchy, irritable, or just plain mean, there will be a $10 charge for putting up with you.
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Apr 14, 2011 6:39 PM CDT reply actions
Here's the bullpen usage:
In Game 1, Reynolds lasted five innings. The Rockies subsequently went through five pitchers to close out the game, but only Belisle (2.0 IP) went more than one inning. I have to think they used a lot of ROOGYs and LOOGYs. Even Lindstrom only pitched 2/3 of an inning to record the save, instead of a full inning of work.
In Game 2, De La Rosa lasted 6.2 innings before giving way to the bullpen. Again, no one lasted long. Only Paulino (1.0 IP) went longer than 2/3 of an inning.
In the second game, the bullpen didn’t allow a hit, but in the first game, they had trouble keeping the Mets’ bats quiet: 4 IP, 5 H, 3 ER, 3 BB, 3 K.
So there may be some pitchers, especially Belisle, who threw 36 pitches, and Street, with 30 pitches (and two ER given up) who will be unavailable tomorrow night.
I didn't believe it last August, but it turns out that love survives.
State high point count: 3/50
If you are grouchy, irritable, or just plain mean, there will be a $10 charge for putting up with you.
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Apr 14, 2011 7:02 PM CDT up reply actions
heres to hoping
we rock em early and they have to decimate their bullpen after basically having them throw a cg today
They may be available, but they still had to use a lot of guys
Could end up affecting them for their whole homestand – Coors is just a little hard on pitching staffs. Of course that mean the Cubs are really scrambling for their next “pitching for the masses” experiment…..
This series could end up bad
We have a pitching staff that has given up a ton of home runs and we are going to play at Coors. Also Tulo has been hitting like a madman. (7 hr’s)
I think Cargo and Tulo are the toughest 3 and 4 hitters. If they get anything to hit then we will be screwed.
Tonight's starter, Matt Garza...
… has allowed zero HR so far this season.
Check out Chicago sports coverage at SB Nation Chicago
but has given up a lot of hits in his 2 starts
"Hello again, everybody. It's a bee-yooo-tiful day for baseball."
equal
to the number of Ks the other team has given up to him.
I’d say, pitch around Tulowisky, and try to score a lot.
Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.
by drewishdrewid on Apr 15, 2011 1:28 PM CDT up reply actions
In honor of the 150th anniversary of the Civil War
Rebel Ridling hits a grand slam. TN up 9-1
Bad news Peoria has not hits through 7
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either
Um NO hits as in there is a NO HITTER being pitched.
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either
by Doggie Stalker on Apr 14, 2011 8:17 PM CDT up reply actions
peoria getting NO HIT?
thats about as exciting as roberto luongo SHUTTING OUT the hawks last night
He's my Hossa
HO-HO-HO-HO-HOSSA
by jesus christos on Apr 14, 2011 8:24 PM CDT up reply actions
Not any more. Got a hit after 7 1/3
still down 5-0
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either
by Doggie Stalker on Apr 14, 2011 8:31 PM CDT up reply actions
are you kidding me?
Sam Fuld achieves superhero status with Rays
By all that's holy, I am going to attend the 2012 Randy Hundley Fantasy Camp.
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